March 4, 2025 • 26 mins
“It hurts me […] when you’re so awesome, but you just can’t convey your awesomeness in a bite-sized package that sells you best […] because you want to add all these albatrosses around your neck with dead-weight words that don’t do anything or paint a colorful picture.”
That’s verbatim from today’s lesson on Why You Fail Job Interviews and the Best Way to Fix it (CAAR).
I know it’s verbatim because I kept stopping the video every few seconds so I could type the words just like I said them.
We’re diving into perspective, new ways to look at how you convey yourself, and the exact formula to use.
You know me. I’m all about the formulas.
If you'd like to build a great career and lead a rewarding life, check out some of these other places where I share my teachings:
1. Check out the milewalk Academy, my coaching and training site, for freemiums and premiums.
2. I have hundreds of educational and inspirational videos on my YouTube Channel.
3. Grab any of my three books related to interviewing, hiring, and goal setting. All can be found on my Amazon Author Page.
4. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter (X), TikTok, Threads, and Facebook.
5. Stay in touch with me in your email inbox by joining my newsletter here!
--Andy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Your resume is written for where you want to go not where you've been you use where you've been
to paint a picture create a story a narrative whatever you want to call it a marketability so
someone is enticed that you can help them solve their problem I do that with you by showing you
(00:21):
my job searching approach the people I've helped how I've helped them right so that you can draw
conclusions about whether I might be able to help you or whether you want to come to my shows on
Thursday or rest in my programs or whatever it might be I show you how I've helped people to
develop in their careers same kind of thing what you're doing with your resume in a cold nature
(00:41):
is you are expressing to somebody here's how I can help you if you're focus is on here's me
and all my glory and what I've done that doesn't sell because people don't buy features they buy
transformation how many people you take your phone you swipe through Instagram you want to get help
right you see the body with the beautiful abs and you you you you want to buy that person's
(01:06):
book you want to buy their training program their app or or or sign them up as as your your training
coach or your strength training coach or your dietician or whatever what are you buying you
are not buying their program you are buying those abs right you're buying the transformation you are
buying a future you that's what you buy right you don't at that moment that impulse you are
(01:33):
not thinking about the two hours of working out that you're going to have to do day in and day
out and what your kitchen cupboards or cabinets or refrigerators going to look like now it's going to
be totally different and then there's a regiment to it but what you're buying is the future you
you're buying the transformation employers are the same way and the problem is you as a job candidate
(01:57):
go into interviews and what do you want to do you want to Gale them with how you're awesome
and all the skills you have and where you went to school and that you have an MBA and that you took
this certification training and that you're PMP certified I don't care no one cares about
that I don't that's not what I'm buying I'm not buying your knowledge I'm buying the application
(02:17):
of what you're going to do with that knowledge in my environment to change my life that's what
I'm buying so you can't explain to me how you're going to do that I'm not going to hire you but
that's what you do just like you want to put all your history on your resume and you can't get it
down to two pages you walk into interviews and you want to talk about all your skills and projects
that you did that don't even matter to me so I want you to I want you to realize when you
(02:43):
get into an interview you are telling a story for marketability purposes just like you're doing with
your resume the story is to sell you it's not to relive your history it is not even to convey the
reality of what you did every minute of every day last year or the prior 10 years is this is this
(03:05):
resonating do you understand this have you ever been just perfect for the role but you didn't get
the job but but I was perfect I had all the skills they needed so what you didn't convince them that
what you were going to do with those skills was going to change their life or at least not in a
manner that they could understand and guess what it's their job to ask you good questions to elicit
(03:31):
information so that they can draw good conclusions the problem with the world is most interviewers
don't know how to do that so while it is their job it becomes your problem because it's up to
you extreme ownership here you've got to take accountability for making sure that they get
to hear what they need to hear so that they could draw a conclusion that's in your favor that's all
(03:52):
I care about and don't think for one second the world is fair or that the most qualified candidate
gets the job it's the person who can tell the best story who can articulate their fit and value and
show the employer how their lives are going to change get this so how do we do that how do we
do that the first thing is I want you to think forward and I want to give you a running start
(04:16):
because I really want to tell you the storytelling formula I want you to use but the stories you
pick make every bit as big a difference as how effectively you tell the story if if you cannot
figure out what illustrates your your skill set and your marketability and how you're going to
(04:37):
help them transform even if you tell a beautiful story it won't matter because that story doesn't
tell me what I need to know so it's really important that you think forward because the
first two things that you need to think about are not what questions are they going to ask me oh
dear lord stop thinking about what they're going to ask you it doesn't matter what they're going
(04:58):
to ask you you need to tell them what they need to know in order to determine how their life is
going to change I don't care if that's what's your greatest strength what's your greatest weakness
tell me about a time you failed tell me about a time you had a disagreement those are nonsense
questions you don't have to prepare for those you need to figure out what are their goals and what
are their problems and what have I done to help organizations achieve those goals by overcoming
(05:22):
the likely problems they have get it when I look at you as a job Seeker I know you want to find
a job or a better job or a better career you all have the same goal I know that that's simple but
you all have different and unique challenges some of you are looking for your first job you're an
emerging professional walking out of school others are well Andy I live in the UK and I want to move
(05:46):
to the US you have GE you have a geography problem others are well I'm an engineer and I don't want
to be an engineer I want to be a salesperson you have a career changing problem right so those
are those are different challenges it's the same thing with employers every marketing department
that ever existed wants more prospects they want them cheaply they want more prospects cheaply and
(06:07):
they want to convert them at a very high rate so that they can turn into customers we know
this that's not hard now the the company you're interviewing with if you're a marketing executive
you need to figure out what their struggles are I coached a woman last night uh 4:00 yesterday and
she's interviewing and uh actually She interviewed she's interviewing right about now uh with someone
(06:29):
about a a creative brand director position and we know what the goal is but we don't know where the
company she's interviewing with we don't know where they are in the Spectrum what they've
tried what their hurdles are what they think the solution is and all that good stuff this is the
stuff you need to be obsessing about before you go into an interview not what story am I
going to tell about my greatest weakness it so doesn't matter so how can you tell what I call
(06:56):
a power story and how could you choose that you choose it based on the goals they have which you
should know and the problems they likely have which you should anticipate you won't 100% know
those but if you're an experienced operator you should know what the problems likely are and you
could get in that interview and you can ask them you can also El listed information from a job uh
(07:17):
description which will also help you and I have a a webinar that'll help you with how to do this a
job interview Playbook webinar which you can check out but let's say for sake of argument you've got
a story you want to tell that's going to greatly illust illustrate how you have done something in
the in your past that's going to help them with their with their future what's the formula that
I want you to use that's what I'm going to take you through and I'm going to break it all down
(07:39):
for you I call it my chir technique and this is my nomenclature and as slick as this may sound
I'm sure there are other people who have similar style structures uh I'm not you know it doesn't
matter to me what you want to call it but I want to explain to you the the principles that I think
(08:01):
make this effective there's a context that I want you to open up with um if you're familiar with
the star technique uh the S is what they call a situation task action result I'm not a huge fan of
that formula in its entirety predominantly because of the connotations of each of the stages in the
(08:23):
star technique the situation itself is usually task based and people immediately think well the
situation was my boss asked me to you know build out this program that's that's not context that's
what you were asked to do in my view context is a business problem why does the story matter
(08:45):
why is it important and what it also does is it gives you an opportunity to get them excited by
explaining to them what the major aspiration was or what the huge problem was or context related
to all of that and we'll use some examples here in a minute but I just want to lay down the structure
for you here then what I want you to do is I want you to give them a stepbystep outline singularly
(09:10):
identified without explanation to show them that there is a sequence of steps that needed to be
taken in order for you to solve the problem build the program expand the unit or whatever it was
restructure the organization go through the m&a whatever it is because what happens is when the
listener hears okay here are the steps I'm going to take you through a job searching approach where
(09:36):
I'm going to help you find yourself I'm going to teach you how to Market yourself I'm going
to teach you how to bring yourself to Market when you when you bring yourself to Market I'm going to
teach you how to interview and then I'm going to teach you how to negotiate that's a step-by-step
process but I didn't explain any of that but what that says to you is okay well if Andy's
going to walk me through five steps I know where he is I know he's got a Playbook people pay more
(09:57):
for systems then they do Point Solutions and when he's talking I'm going to know exactly where he is
in the story at any moment in time and I know where the story is going and it's going to be
easier for me to pay attention and because number item number one the context was so intriguing he's
captured my attention and then with the approach that's an outline it's going to be easier for me
(10:23):
to understand where I am in the story it's much easier as a listener the next thing you do is I
want you to walk through through your outline your approach or the steps and I want you to
give a little more color I call this the second part of the approach but this is kind of like
walk you through the details and then I want you to bookend the result which you've already either
flat out told me was the issue because I'm going to make I'm going to make an inference that if
(10:50):
you're telling me there was a business problem and you're specific about what that problem is
I'm guessing that you're telling me that because you're going to tell me how you solved it that's
what's going to keep my attention and then toward the end you're going to reiterate what the number
was what the issue was that you resolved or any additional benefits that you ultimately
(11:11):
achieved and that's how you tell a story so what does that actually look like all right when you
get with the context remember yesterday when I said if you're going to write a resume bullet
when you res wide resume bullet you need to have you need to have it address one of the great eight
opportunities accomplishments goals that an employer has it was generating Revenue
(11:34):
increasing Market or brand awareness attracting customers keeping them and keeping them happy or
servicing them growing the organization keeping the employees happy or raising happiness reducing
costs and process efficiency when you open up a story any story I don't care what the
story is what the question was you start with one of these so what does that sound like well
(11:59):
I was coaching a CEO um you know I don't know months back and she we were going
through some roleplaying and her interview storytelling and she was explaining to me
that she'd gotten into uh this organization and I was asking her you know kind of what what her
major accomplishment was there and she says well I I really helped them you know create
(12:22):
more value and grow their revenue and I said okay but that right there that's fine but that doesn't
tell me anything and I said well how much revenue did you help them grow and she said well in the
first year I helped them grow 17 million that doesn't tell me anything either it's just a
number did you go from you know 83 million to 200 million right that's one thing or did you go from
(12:47):
zero to 17 million that tells me something else or did you go from 17 million to 34 million that
might tell me something else and she said well they were about a $50 million company
I I helped them I put in some programs that help them grow to 17 million more that still doesn't
tell me the whole story because 50 million to 7 to 67 million sounds like n you had a good year right
(13:13):
the market could have been kind maybe you walked in and the product was hot so I still don't have
the context that I need to understand where this story is going or how awesome she is okay so I
asked some more questions I said well what were the 5 years prior like like were they growing
growing growing she said well no they were flat for 5 years they couldn't grow any Revenue I said
(13:40):
well that needs to be said because if they're flat for 5 years and you walked in and you recreated or
or blew up their strategy and and and built them a new one that gained 17 million in the
first year after they were zero flatlined for the previous five that's what I want to know because
(14:02):
the problem was systemic for a long time until you entered so when you tell a story you're going to
say I was hired this organization had been stuck on 50 million in revenue for five straight years
when there was a $2.8 billion market cap for their products that's how you open up a
(14:24):
story so I came in in and I knew there was at least an opportunity
to get them 33% better if I did the right
things so I was hired because I have a background in creating value for organizations by redesigning
(14:47):
their strategy and and commercializing this and that and the other thing that all takes
10 seconds to say do you see the difference in how I immediately re shape the way you think about me
all of a sudden I'm important you were able to get in why you were chosen for this act I don't care
(15:07):
if you've been working at your company 5 years you were chosen to do something because and that
needs to be inserted because you immediately get to stuff why they need to hire you and what you're
going to do for them and you've just foreshadowed this with exactly what what you did this story
(15:28):
takes three to 4 minutes to tell so they're not too long trust me I can say I was brought in as
the CEO because this company was struggling with Flatline revenue for 5 years they were
at 50 million and I recognized that there was an opportunity to immediately raised them at least
33% if I was able to redesign that strategy so they hired me because of my background in seconds
(15:53):
it takes seconds to say and you set the table and I guarantee you that once you say that everything
else that they listen to is going to be giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're just
now going to start talking about how you did that and as long as everything you say makes
sense that's it that's all that matters this is so important for you to understand they are not going
(16:19):
to remember what you tell them at all what they're doing is their their feelings their feelings are
on overdrive as you're talking so now what they're saying is she must be important wow she must have
those skills and then when you get in and you start talking what they what they're thinking
is she sounds organized she sounds like she knows what she's doing that's the signal they're sending
(16:42):
up here that's what you're concentrating on you're not concentrating on giving them chapter
and verse of every single thing that you did do do you understand this this is the this is the
single greatest issue that I have to eradicate when I coach somebody is I have to strip out
all the dead weight in their answer to make the thing move and it all starts with getting off on
(17:06):
the right foot to capture their attention because how they listen to you will be totally different
if you start at step one they're wondering where's this going why are you doing this how long is this
story going to be you got me okay so now that's that's an opener then what then I want you to
take me through an approach now every single approach that any of you do take what I'm going
(17:30):
to give you right now because this is effectively what's going to apply to everything that you do so
regardless of what your job is generally speaking whenever you take an assignment you do some kind
of diagnostic so the woman I'm talking about the 17 million increased in Revenue well the first
(17:50):
thing she had to do was look at their strategy look at their customers look at their product
line look at the segmentation and so you just want to be able to say so first thing I did was a
diagnostic then I came up with a new solution and a new strategy or a new approach or a new plan or
whatever then I had to present that plan because I needed to get it blessed why do you want to say
(18:15):
these things what did I just get done saying what are you sending feelings what kind of feeling does
it send when it when when she says so I had to develop the new strategy so in the business case
so I needed to present it to the board what do they immediately feel oh she must well she
obviously must know how to present the business case she must know how to put it together and she
(18:36):
must be persuasive and influential because she pitched it to them do you see the way their mind
is moving four times faster than you can speak you need to let their mind run into the places
you want it right not into questions you need them making statements in their mind about you not geez
(18:59):
I wonder well hang on a second how what what right that's what that's what's happening when a lot of
people are talking with a lot of detail so I did an assessment I created a plan I presented
the case I got it approved then I flushed it out then I implemented it then I operated it then I
gathered the data then I improved it every story that you ever did in your life looks
(19:21):
something like this every single person I coach from engineer to new college grad to CEO to CIO
to CMO to director of it I got a guy at 4:00 today he's he's an engineering director this
is what we're going to be working on so what you're doing is you're giving them a list and
(19:44):
this only takes another few seconds to say you're not even a minute into the story yet you with me
remember you're not explaining these steps you're telling them I have these steps this is my system
so I did an assessment I created a plan I needed to present and created a business case presented
it to the management team once they blessed it I flushed out the plan I implemented the plan I
(20:09):
operated it gathered the data and then iterated how long did that take me to say did anybody
put a clock on that do you see how fast that is do you guys think I'm nuts I'm telling you this
works okay then what do you do then you go back here's the most important thing why do you why
are your stories so long because you want to what explain what happened right I don't want you to
(20:34):
explain what happened I want you to give them the ingredients so they can do what draw a conclusion
about what that you know what to do so if the CEO candidate said well I did a diagnostic she
doesn't have to say Okay so I got there I met with everybody I figured out who I needed to talk to
(20:59):
then I realized if I wanted to develop a good strategy I was going to need to talk to everybody
hold a a requirements session um look at their Integrations no you don't tell a story that way
you say so I did a diagnostic the most important thing about their strategy was I needed to make
(21:19):
sure that the strategy was holistic so I wanted to cover all the groups sales operations engineering
customer service marketing blah blah blah so I looked at all the groups I looked at the product
lines I looked at the customer segmentations we had customers on five continents I looked at all
five continents and I assessed where our products were selling what the revenue was and what the
(21:42):
profit line was that's it on to step two so you speak in inventories this is a big freaking deal
because you just want them to know you know what to look at remember this is a success ful story
she already told them I made 17 million bucks this is really really a big deal inventory it you only
(22:08):
use information that sells you I had a woman one time we worked uh she's in the UK and she
was launching a Flapjacks line the line already existed but they had zero customers below 50 years
old so they needed to remarket the package and figure out how to re reformulate the packaging
(22:28):
of the product line so it would appeal to a de different demographic so we're working through
her story when we get to the assessment phase she said well Andy I said well what data did
you gather and she said well I needed these customer Insight information and this customer
Insight information included blah blah blah and I said okay and I said okay so we're practicing
(22:51):
her story and she said well but there was a team of Consultants from Boston Consulting Group that
had to spend like a month gathering this data like that's dead weight in a story you don't need to
say that you don't need to say that a whole bunch of people had to run around and gather the data
just say we needed to gather the data data such as boom boom boom and the reason that was important
(23:13):
was so I could see so I could draw the conclusion so I can make the recommendation right you don't
need to explain every bit of the story and that's what a lot of you do you do it in your resume and
you do it in your storytelling got to get out of that what information tells the story that you
need to tell that markets you best that explains to them I would do this for you what illustrates
(23:39):
that it's for illustrative purposes only to sell you only not to relive reality that they don't
care about nor will they remember and then the last thing is then just give them the results
okay so what happened was after I got through and we implemented my plan in the first year we were
(24:03):
able to generate that $17 million we had expanded our customer line to include blah blah blah and it
positioned us for hyper growth for the next three years because then we grew by doubling every year
for the next three years you with me who loves this storytelling formula can I get a heart in
(24:29):
the chat if you love it Marilyn Lee for car will the answers be too long no need to be 2 to four
minutes yes how can I be more precise do exactly what I said sometimes the initial interview
is only 30 minutes the initial interview at 30 minutes is not interested in going into many many
(24:50):
stories they're interested in saying hello all right so wait now I do I do want you to drop drive
that home I do want you to put those hearts in the chat if you use this and I do want you to go watch
the job interview Playbook webinar it's free Cara can we drop that in the chat let's drop that in
(25:11):
the chat I know I get amped up about interviewing people but I just it's it hurts me when you're so
awesome but you just can't convey your awesomeness in a bite-sized package that sells you best
because you want to add all these albatrosses around your neck with dead weight words that
(25:36):
don't do anything or paint a colorful picture so if you want more about why this works in interview
intervention I talk about my original storytelling formula and the areas that it needs to hit and a
big part of being successful is capturing their attention and keeping it talking in language they
(25:57):
understand showing them the organization to your story so while this book came out in 2012 so it's
a dozen years old the principles I'm sharing with you today are very much in alignment with
what I originally wrote many years ago and so it's it's really me trying to as I've worked with many
(26:19):
many more thousands of people and seen many many more thousands of interviews and and just gotten
better at this I'm trying to give this to you in a package that I think you can really understand
and I'm I'm continually trying to formulize it so you can take the crutches that I can give you
and just add the meat on the bones cool cool all right so remember I'll send this to anywhere in
(26:42):
the world seven us bucks give you the ebook which is $9 on Amazon that's kind of a pretty good deal
Your resume is written for where you want to go not where you've been you use where you've been
to paint a picture create a story a narrative whatever you want to call it a marketability so
someone is enticed that you can help them solve their problem I do that with you by showing you
(00:21):
my job searching approach the people I've helped how I've helped them right so that you can draw
conclusions about whether I might be able to help you or whether you want to come to my shows on
Thursday or rest in my programs or whatever it might be I show you how I've helped people to
develop in their careers same kind of thing what you're doing with your resume in a cold nature
(00:41):
is you are expressing to somebody here's how I can help you if you're focus is on here's me
and all my glory and what I've done that doesn't sell because people don't buy features they buy
transformation how many people you take your phone you swipe through Instagram you want to get help
right you see the body with the beautiful abs and you you you you want to buy that person's
(01:06):
book you want to buy their training program their app or or or sign them up as as your your training
coach or your strength training coach or your dietician or whatever what are you buying you
are not buying their program you are buying those abs right you're buying the transformation you are
buying a future you that's what you buy right you don't at that moment that impulse you are
(01:33):
not thinking about the two hours of working out that you're going to have to do day in and day
out and what your kitchen cupboards or cabinets or refrigerators going to look like now it's going to
be totally different and then there's a regiment to it but what you're buying is the future you
you're buying the transformation employers are the same way and the problem is you as a job candidate
(01:57):
go into interviews and what do you want to do you want to Gale them with how you're awesome
and all the skills you have and where you went to school and that you have an MBA and that you took
this certification training and that you're PMP certified I don't care no one cares about
that I don't that's not what I'm buying I'm not buying your knowledge I'm buying the application
(02:17):
of what you're going to do with that knowledge in my environment to change my life that's what
I'm buying so you can't explain to me how you're going to do that I'm not going to hire you but
that's what you do just like you want to put all your history on your resume and you can't get it
down to two pages you walk into interviews and you want to talk about all your skills and projects
that you did that don't even matter to me so I want you to I want you to realize when you
(02:43):
get into an interview you are telling a story for marketability purposes just like you're doing with
your resume the story is to sell you it's not to relive your history it is not even to convey the
reality of what you did every minute of every day last year or the prior 10 years is this is this
(03:05):
resonating do you understand this have you ever been just perfect for the role but you didn't get
the job but but I was perfect I had all the skills they needed so what you didn't convince them that
what you were going to do with those skills was going to change their life or at least not in a
manner that they could understand and guess what it's their job to ask you good questions to elicit
(03:31):
information so that they can draw good conclusions the problem with the world is most interviewers
don't know how to do that so while it is their job it becomes your problem because it's up to
you extreme ownership here you've got to take accountability for making sure that they get
to hear what they need to hear so that they could draw a conclusion that's in your favor that's all
(03:52):
I care about and don't think for one second the world is fair or that the most qualified candidate
gets the job it's the person who can tell the best story who can articulate their fit and value and
show the employer how their lives are going to change get this so how do we do that how do we
do that the first thing is I want you to think forward and I want to give you a running start
(04:16):
because I really want to tell you the storytelling formula I want you to use but the stories you
pick make every bit as big a difference as how effectively you tell the story if if you cannot
figure out what illustrates your your skill set and your marketability and how you're going to
(04:37):
help them transform even if you tell a beautiful story it won't matter because that story doesn't
tell me what I need to know so it's really important that you think forward because the
first two things that you need to think about are not what questions are they going to ask me oh
dear lord stop thinking about what they're going to ask you it doesn't matter what they're going
(04:58):
to ask you you need to tell them what they need to know in order to determine how their life is
going to change I don't care if that's what's your greatest strength what's your greatest weakness
tell me about a time you failed tell me about a time you had a disagreement those are nonsense
questions you don't have to prepare for those you need to figure out what are their goals and what
are their problems and what have I done to help organizations achieve those goals by overcoming
(05:22):
the likely problems they have get it when I look at you as a job Seeker I know you want to find
a job or a better job or a better career you all have the same goal I know that that's simple but
you all have different and unique challenges some of you are looking for your first job you're an
emerging professional walking out of school others are well Andy I live in the UK and I want to move
(05:46):
to the US you have GE you have a geography problem others are well I'm an engineer and I don't want
to be an engineer I want to be a salesperson you have a career changing problem right so those
are those are different challenges it's the same thing with employers every marketing department
that ever existed wants more prospects they want them cheaply they want more prospects cheaply and
(06:07):
they want to convert them at a very high rate so that they can turn into customers we know
this that's not hard now the the company you're interviewing with if you're a marketing executive
you need to figure out what their struggles are I coached a woman last night uh 4:00 yesterday and
she's interviewing and uh actually She interviewed she's interviewing right about now uh with someone
(06:29):
about a a creative brand director position and we know what the goal is but we don't know where the
company she's interviewing with we don't know where they are in the Spectrum what they've
tried what their hurdles are what they think the solution is and all that good stuff this is the
stuff you need to be obsessing about before you go into an interview not what story am I
going to tell about my greatest weakness it so doesn't matter so how can you tell what I call
(06:56):
a power story and how could you choose that you choose it based on the goals they have which you
should know and the problems they likely have which you should anticipate you won't 100% know
those but if you're an experienced operator you should know what the problems likely are and you
could get in that interview and you can ask them you can also El listed information from a job uh
(07:17):
description which will also help you and I have a a webinar that'll help you with how to do this a
job interview Playbook webinar which you can check out but let's say for sake of argument you've got
a story you want to tell that's going to greatly illust illustrate how you have done something in
the in your past that's going to help them with their with their future what's the formula that
I want you to use that's what I'm going to take you through and I'm going to break it all down
(07:39):
for you I call it my chir technique and this is my nomenclature and as slick as this may sound
I'm sure there are other people who have similar style structures uh I'm not you know it doesn't
matter to me what you want to call it but I want to explain to you the the principles that I think
(08:01):
make this effective there's a context that I want you to open up with um if you're familiar with
the star technique uh the S is what they call a situation task action result I'm not a huge fan of
that formula in its entirety predominantly because of the connotations of each of the stages in the
(08:23):
star technique the situation itself is usually task based and people immediately think well the
situation was my boss asked me to you know build out this program that's that's not context that's
what you were asked to do in my view context is a business problem why does the story matter
(08:45):
why is it important and what it also does is it gives you an opportunity to get them excited by
explaining to them what the major aspiration was or what the huge problem was or context related
to all of that and we'll use some examples here in a minute but I just want to lay down the structure
for you here then what I want you to do is I want you to give them a stepbystep outline singularly
(09:10):
identified without explanation to show them that there is a sequence of steps that needed to be
taken in order for you to solve the problem build the program expand the unit or whatever it was
restructure the organization go through the m&a whatever it is because what happens is when the
listener hears okay here are the steps I'm going to take you through a job searching approach where
(09:36):
I'm going to help you find yourself I'm going to teach you how to Market yourself I'm going
to teach you how to bring yourself to Market when you when you bring yourself to Market I'm going to
teach you how to interview and then I'm going to teach you how to negotiate that's a step-by-step
process but I didn't explain any of that but what that says to you is okay well if Andy's
going to walk me through five steps I know where he is I know he's got a Playbook people pay more
(09:57):
for systems then they do Point Solutions and when he's talking I'm going to know exactly where he is
in the story at any moment in time and I know where the story is going and it's going to be
easier for me to pay attention and because number item number one the context was so intriguing he's
captured my attention and then with the approach that's an outline it's going to be easier for me
(10:23):
to understand where I am in the story it's much easier as a listener the next thing you do is I
want you to walk through through your outline your approach or the steps and I want you to
give a little more color I call this the second part of the approach but this is kind of like
walk you through the details and then I want you to bookend the result which you've already either
flat out told me was the issue because I'm going to make I'm going to make an inference that if
(10:50):
you're telling me there was a business problem and you're specific about what that problem is
I'm guessing that you're telling me that because you're going to tell me how you solved it that's
what's going to keep my attention and then toward the end you're going to reiterate what the number
was what the issue was that you resolved or any additional benefits that you ultimately
(11:11):
achieved and that's how you tell a story so what does that actually look like all right when you
get with the context remember yesterday when I said if you're going to write a resume bullet
when you res wide resume bullet you need to have you need to have it address one of the great eight
opportunities accomplishments goals that an employer has it was generating Revenue
(11:34):
increasing Market or brand awareness attracting customers keeping them and keeping them happy or
servicing them growing the organization keeping the employees happy or raising happiness reducing
costs and process efficiency when you open up a story any story I don't care what the
story is what the question was you start with one of these so what does that sound like well
(11:59):
I was coaching a CEO um you know I don't know months back and she we were going
through some roleplaying and her interview storytelling and she was explaining to me
that she'd gotten into uh this organization and I was asking her you know kind of what what her
major accomplishment was there and she says well I I really helped them you know create
(12:22):
more value and grow their revenue and I said okay but that right there that's fine but that doesn't
tell me anything and I said well how much revenue did you help them grow and she said well in the
first year I helped them grow 17 million that doesn't tell me anything either it's just a
number did you go from you know 83 million to 200 million right that's one thing or did you go from
(12:47):
zero to 17 million that tells me something else or did you go from 17 million to 34 million that
might tell me something else and she said well they were about a $50 million company
I I helped them I put in some programs that help them grow to 17 million more that still doesn't
tell me the whole story because 50 million to 7 to 67 million sounds like n you had a good year right
(13:13):
the market could have been kind maybe you walked in and the product was hot so I still don't have
the context that I need to understand where this story is going or how awesome she is okay so I
asked some more questions I said well what were the 5 years prior like like were they growing
growing growing she said well no they were flat for 5 years they couldn't grow any Revenue I said
(13:40):
well that needs to be said because if they're flat for 5 years and you walked in and you recreated or
or blew up their strategy and and and built them a new one that gained 17 million in the
first year after they were zero flatlined for the previous five that's what I want to know because
(14:02):
the problem was systemic for a long time until you entered so when you tell a story you're going to
say I was hired this organization had been stuck on 50 million in revenue for five straight years
when there was a $2.8 billion market cap for their products that's how you open up a
(14:24):
story so I came in in and I knew there was at least an opportunity
to get them 33% better if I did the right
things so I was hired because I have a background in creating value for organizations by redesigning
(14:47):
their strategy and and commercializing this and that and the other thing that all takes
10 seconds to say do you see the difference in how I immediately re shape the way you think about me
all of a sudden I'm important you were able to get in why you were chosen for this act I don't care
(15:07):
if you've been working at your company 5 years you were chosen to do something because and that
needs to be inserted because you immediately get to stuff why they need to hire you and what you're
going to do for them and you've just foreshadowed this with exactly what what you did this story
(15:28):
takes three to 4 minutes to tell so they're not too long trust me I can say I was brought in as
the CEO because this company was struggling with Flatline revenue for 5 years they were
at 50 million and I recognized that there was an opportunity to immediately raised them at least
33% if I was able to redesign that strategy so they hired me because of my background in seconds
(15:53):
it takes seconds to say and you set the table and I guarantee you that once you say that everything
else that they listen to is going to be giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're just
now going to start talking about how you did that and as long as everything you say makes
sense that's it that's all that matters this is so important for you to understand they are not going
(16:19):
to remember what you tell them at all what they're doing is their their feelings their feelings are
on overdrive as you're talking so now what they're saying is she must be important wow she must have
those skills and then when you get in and you start talking what they what they're thinking
is she sounds organized she sounds like she knows what she's doing that's the signal they're sending
(16:42):
up here that's what you're concentrating on you're not concentrating on giving them chapter
and verse of every single thing that you did do do you understand this this is the this is the
single greatest issue that I have to eradicate when I coach somebody is I have to strip out
all the dead weight in their answer to make the thing move and it all starts with getting off on
(17:06):
the right foot to capture their attention because how they listen to you will be totally different
if you start at step one they're wondering where's this going why are you doing this how long is this
story going to be you got me okay so now that's that's an opener then what then I want you to
take me through an approach now every single approach that any of you do take what I'm going
(17:30):
to give you right now because this is effectively what's going to apply to everything that you do so
regardless of what your job is generally speaking whenever you take an assignment you do some kind
of diagnostic so the woman I'm talking about the 17 million increased in Revenue well the first
(17:50):
thing she had to do was look at their strategy look at their customers look at their product
line look at the segmentation and so you just want to be able to say so first thing I did was a
diagnostic then I came up with a new solution and a new strategy or a new approach or a new plan or
whatever then I had to present that plan because I needed to get it blessed why do you want to say
(18:15):
these things what did I just get done saying what are you sending feelings what kind of feeling does
it send when it when when she says so I had to develop the new strategy so in the business case
so I needed to present it to the board what do they immediately feel oh she must well she
obviously must know how to present the business case she must know how to put it together and she
(18:36):
must be persuasive and influential because she pitched it to them do you see the way their mind
is moving four times faster than you can speak you need to let their mind run into the places
you want it right not into questions you need them making statements in their mind about you not geez
(18:59):
I wonder well hang on a second how what what right that's what that's what's happening when a lot of
people are talking with a lot of detail so I did an assessment I created a plan I presented
the case I got it approved then I flushed it out then I implemented it then I operated it then I
gathered the data then I improved it every story that you ever did in your life looks
(19:21):
something like this every single person I coach from engineer to new college grad to CEO to CIO
to CMO to director of it I got a guy at 4:00 today he's he's an engineering director this
is what we're going to be working on so what you're doing is you're giving them a list and
(19:44):
this only takes another few seconds to say you're not even a minute into the story yet you with me
remember you're not explaining these steps you're telling them I have these steps this is my system
so I did an assessment I created a plan I needed to present and created a business case presented
it to the management team once they blessed it I flushed out the plan I implemented the plan I
(20:09):
operated it gathered the data and then iterated how long did that take me to say did anybody
put a clock on that do you see how fast that is do you guys think I'm nuts I'm telling you this
works okay then what do you do then you go back here's the most important thing why do you why
are your stories so long because you want to what explain what happened right I don't want you to
(20:34):
explain what happened I want you to give them the ingredients so they can do what draw a conclusion
about what that you know what to do so if the CEO candidate said well I did a diagnostic she
doesn't have to say Okay so I got there I met with everybody I figured out who I needed to talk to
(20:59):
then I realized if I wanted to develop a good strategy I was going to need to talk to everybody
hold a a requirements session um look at their Integrations no you don't tell a story that way
you say so I did a diagnostic the most important thing about their strategy was I needed to make
(21:19):
sure that the strategy was holistic so I wanted to cover all the groups sales operations engineering
customer service marketing blah blah blah so I looked at all the groups I looked at the product
lines I looked at the customer segmentations we had customers on five continents I looked at all
five continents and I assessed where our products were selling what the revenue was and what the
(21:42):
profit line was that's it on to step two so you speak in inventories this is a big freaking deal
because you just want them to know you know what to look at remember this is a success ful story
she already told them I made 17 million bucks this is really really a big deal inventory it you only
(22:08):
use information that sells you I had a woman one time we worked uh she's in the UK and she
was launching a Flapjacks line the line already existed but they had zero customers below 50 years
old so they needed to remarket the package and figure out how to re reformulate the packaging
(22:28):
of the product line so it would appeal to a de different demographic so we're working through
her story when we get to the assessment phase she said well Andy I said well what data did
you gather and she said well I needed these customer Insight information and this customer
Insight information included blah blah blah and I said okay and I said okay so we're practicing
(22:51):
her story and she said well but there was a team of Consultants from Boston Consulting Group that
had to spend like a month gathering this data like that's dead weight in a story you don't need to
say that you don't need to say that a whole bunch of people had to run around and gather the data
just say we needed to gather the data data such as boom boom boom and the reason that was important
(23:13):
was so I could see so I could draw the conclusion so I can make the recommendation right you don't
need to explain every bit of the story and that's what a lot of you do you do it in your resume and
you do it in your storytelling got to get out of that what information tells the story that you
need to tell that markets you best that explains to them I would do this for you what illustrates
(23:39):
that it's for illustrative purposes only to sell you only not to relive reality that they don't
care about nor will they remember and then the last thing is then just give them the results
okay so what happened was after I got through and we implemented my plan in the first year we were
(24:03):
able to generate that $17 million we had expanded our customer line to include blah blah blah and it
positioned us for hyper growth for the next three years because then we grew by doubling every year
for the next three years you with me who loves this storytelling formula can I get a heart in
(24:29):
the chat if you love it Marilyn Lee for car will the answers be too long no need to be 2 to four
minutes yes how can I be more precise do exactly what I said sometimes the initial interview
is only 30 minutes the initial interview at 30 minutes is not interested in going into many many
(24:50):
stories they're interested in saying hello all right so wait now I do I do want you to drop drive
that home I do want you to put those hearts in the chat if you use this and I do want you to go watch
the job interview Playbook webinar it's free Cara can we drop that in the chat let's drop that in
(25:11):
the chat I know I get amped up about interviewing people but I just it's it hurts me when you're so
awesome but you just can't convey your awesomeness in a bite-sized package that sells you best
because you want to add all these albatrosses around your neck with dead weight words that
(25:36):
don't do anything or paint a colorful picture so if you want more about why this works in interview
intervention I talk about my original storytelling formula and the areas that it needs to hit and a
big part of being successful is capturing their attention and keeping it talking in language they
(25:57):
understand showing them the organization to your story so while this book came out in 2012 so it's
a dozen years old the principles I'm sharing with you today are very much in alignment with
what I originally wrote many years ago and so it's it's really me trying to as I've worked with many
(26:19):
many more thousands of people and seen many many more thousands of interviews and and just gotten
better at this I'm trying to give this to you in a package that I think you can really understand
and I'm I'm continually trying to formulize it so you can take the crutches that I can give you
and just add the meat on the bones cool cool all right so remember I'll send this to anywhere in
(26:42):
the world seven us bucks give you the ebook which is $9 on Amazon that's kind of a pretty good deal
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