May 23, 2019 • 32 mins
On this episode of Tony Talks Charles County Crime, State’s Attorney Tony Covington sits with Executive Assistant Kristen Schulz and Public Relations Specialist Kandes Carter to discuss child sexual and physical abuse. Included in the discussion:
00:01:06 What is Child Abuse?
00:03:07 Corporal Punishment
00:06:43 Child Sexual Abuse
00:08:37 "Stranger-Danger" and Danger from People Children Know
00:10:12 What is "Grooming"?
00:11:20 Grooming Children and Adults
00:13:11 Why Kids Don't Report Sexual Abuse
00:14:50 Indicators of Abuse
00:16:33 Communicating with Kids About Abuse (What to Say)
00:19:46 Frequency of Sexual Assault Victims Reporting Immediately and Why
00:22:28 How to Report Abuse
00:24:39 Abuse in Schools and What We Can Do for Prevention
00:30:22 Summary of Episode
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tony Covington (00:15):
Welcome, Tony Covington here.
Thanks for listening to TonyTalks Charles County Crime, the
official podcast at the State'sAttorney's Office here in
Charles County.
Today we're going to talk abouta topic that is always relevant,
whether or not it gets a lot ofattention in the media on a
day-to-day basis.
We're going to talk about childabuse, two types of child abuse,
(00:36):
physical child abuse and sexualchild abuse.
I'll define those here in alittle bit, but first let me
tell you that I've got KandesCarter here with me and Kristen
Schultz here with me and we'regoing to have a little
discussion about this.
Welcome ladies.
KS & KC (00:50):
Thank you.
Tony Covington (00:52):
Okay.
Who wants to- we're going totalk about physical child abuse
first.
It's a little bit more straightforward.
So let's talk about that first.
Do you have any questions thatwe got from the citizens that
pertained to physical childabuse?
Kandes Carter (01:04):
So let's start with what's the definition of
child abuse?
Tony Covington (01:08):
Okay, that's pretty straight forward.
Child abuse, especially on thephysical child abuse side is
inflicting any injury or type ofabuse.
I know you never definesomething with the word itself,
but abuse can be more than justphysical.
For instance, if you were toterrify a child that here
they're going to get hurt orsomething like that.
(01:30):
We've had people literally tiechildren to trees or to rails
and leave them there.
There's no injury as a result ofthat.
No, maybe not even any exposureto the elements, but that would
be abuse.
So anything that somebody doeson the physical side, nonsexual,
okay, that could amount tophysical child abuse.
(01:51):
Now, you got to point this outvery quickly, it's not just
anybody.
If I'm walking down the aisle atsome grocery store and some kid
is screaming and hollering, Ismack him upside the head.
That is not child abuse.
It's obviously an assault and Ican get charged with that.
Kristen Schulz (02:05):
I didn't know that
Tony Covington (02:05):
But child abuse, there must be a particular
relationship between the childand the adult committing the
acts.
Kristen Schulz (02:14):
Just family?
Or what kind of relationship?
Tony Covington (02:16):
Relationship has to be with somebody who has care
and custody of the child, forinstance: babysitter, teachers.
If I let my kid go with you onan overnight camping, you have
temporary care and custody of mychild, you're not supposed to be
abusing my child, right?
So if you do something, thatcould be child abuse.
So you have to have thatparticular relationship then
(02:36):
they call it temporary care andcustody or permanent care and
custody.
And if you live in a house withthe child and you're assaulting
that child, that can be childabuse.
Or if you are a family member.
Alright, so specialrelationship, temporary care and
custody, family member or ahousehold member, that all gets
you in the ambit of physicalchild abuse and sexual child
(03:01):
abuse.
It's the same rules apply forsexual child abuse as well.
Kristen Schulz (03:05):
So speaking of families, does a parent have the
right to physically disciplinetheir child or no?
Tony Covington (03:11):
That's a good question and I hear about that
all the time.
Folks always want to harken backto the good old days when, you
know, a parent could do justabout anything to a child and
not have to worry about it.
Well, someone said, you know,the good old days weren't always
good and the present is not asbad as it seems.
But anyway, yes.
(03:32):
Here in Maryland, contrary to alot of people's opinion, parents
do have the right to corporallypunish their children.
In other words, discipliningthem with physical punishment,
spankings, whatever.
Alright.
Now you can't get carried away.
Kristen Schulz (03:53):
Right.
Tony Covington (03:53):
Excessive discipline, meaning you went
overboard when you weredisciplining your child- and
please make sure you understandsomething, when it comes to
child abuse and it comes tocorporal punishment, you must be
doing whatever it is that you'redoing for the purpose of
discipline, not just becauseyou're mad, not just cause you
got a bad day at work.
Kandes Carter (04:14):
Right.
Tony Covington (04:14):
You know, not because you're going to come
home and kick your dog and thenbeat your kids and then beat
your wife.
No, it doesn't work that way.
It must be directly connected todiscipline.
Now, what is excessive?
It's kind of hard to define.
So, I'm being very careful withmy words here because this is
specific to the State'sAttorney's Office here in
(04:35):
Charles County.
I believe, and I'm going to actaccordingly, that if you go
around leaving marks on yourchildren, bruises, cuts, things
of that nature, when you'redisciplining your child, you
have gone too far and that casewill be presented to the grand
jury.
And then the grand jury maydecide, you know what, given the
(04:57):
circumstances, we don't thinkit's child abuse and they don't
want to charge the case.
But from my perspective, fromthe State's Attorney's
perspective, that's the rule ofthumb here in Charles County for
me.
I can't speak for any otherjurisdiction.
Just mine.
And you know, that goes back tomy childhood.
You know, my father, my fatherand mother did not spare the
rod.
Okay.
I was disciplined corporatelyall the time.
(05:19):
My Dad was a big man, you know,six foot, two forty solid rock.
He was an army officer, airborneranger, the whole nine.
And he never left a mark on me.
And I got more than my- no, notmore than my share of beatings.
I deserved every single one ofthem.
Okay.
You know, and I got away withsome stuff that I probably
shouldn't have.
(05:40):
But because of that, you know,that rule of thumb don't leave
marks on your children, youshould be alright.
Excessive discipline can be aproblem.
Alright.
When it occurs, oftentimes wefind out from another family
member, we find out from theschools- that's normally how we
kind of find out about itbecause the kid will go to
(06:01):
school and somebody will seesomething.
That's how it normally happens.
Rarely do the children callthemselves.
Kristen Schulz (06:07):
Right.
Tony Covington (06:07):
Sometimes we have a mother and father who
have split up and you know, oneof them is mad at the other and
then you find out about it thatway too.
But the bottom line is you havethe right to physically
discipline your child.
You cannot be excessive aboutit.
And here in Charles County, Itake the protection of children
very seriously.
And if you are excessive aboutit by leaving marks on the
(06:29):
child, that case will be goingin front of the grand jury.
Kristen Schulz (06:32):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (06:35):
Okay.
So were there any otherquestions from the community on
physical child abuse?
Kristen Schulz (06:41):
No, not on physical.
Tony Covington (06:42):
Alright, well, let me transition into sexual
child abuse.
That is a huge problem.
It has been in the news in thelast year or two, especially
here in Charles County, and itshould be.
Child sexual abuse is one of themost under-reported crimes that
there is, perhaps only outpacedby domestic violence.
(07:03):
It is a huge problem thatimpacts not just the person who
was abused at the time, but fora lifetime.
It impacts their relationshipswith everybody else and it
causes tremendous emotionalpsychological damage, like I
say, temporarily andpermanently.
(07:24):
We don't deal with child sexualabuse well enough in our court
system.
It is a very difficult thing todeal with.
You can never make your victimwhole, but you try to hold
people accountable.
But again, it's veryunder-reported.
One in five females will besexually abused as a child.
Kandes Carter (07:47):
Wow.
Tony Covington (07:49):
One in 20 males will be abused sexually as
children.
The age range where they're mostvulnerable is from seven years
old to 13 years old.
And it occurs in all places;homes; schools; unfortunately,
churches; wherever it can occur.
(08:11):
So child sexual abuse is a largeproblem.
Here in Charles County, werecall the last couple of years
we had the huge case with CarlosBell.
It had 42 victims.
So it's a huge problem.
I think I've laid that outpretty quick here.
(08:32):
What questions do I have on it,on this very complicated issue.
Kandes Carter (08:37):
So we oftentimes teach children about
stranger-danger, but howprevalent is it that a stranger
is the one that's actuallyabusing a child?
Tony Covington (08:45):
That's a great question, Kandes.
And it's the number one thingthat I would like to say about
child abuse.
Parents, everybody who caresabout kids out there, stranger
danger, we need to keep talkingabout it.
Okay.
But fully 75%, three quarters ofkids who are abused, are abused
by somebody that they know andthat they know well.
(09:09):
This just isn't someacquaintance that they happen to
see.
Wherever it happens, whereverthey happen to be, it's someone
that they know well- an adult.
And there are also- and I needto point out, point this out-
there are also a lot ofjuveniles who make up the
abusers as well.
So you will have juvenilesabusing juveniles and
(09:32):
oftentimes, if not most of thetime, that juvenile has already
been abused themselves.
That's how they learned thebehavior to abuse somebody else.
So that is something that's outthere.
But the stranger danger moniker,like I say, it is good to tell
your children, you know, don'ttake money from strangers; don't
(09:54):
take a ride from strangers;this, that and the other.
But parents, guardians have toespecially be concerned with the
people that are in yourchildren's life.
You have to be vigilant becausethose are the people who are
doing the abusing three quartersof the time.
Kristen Schulz (10:11):
You hear the word grooming.
Is that what, you know, they'recomfortable with the family?
You don't suspect that it's thecoach or whatever.
Explain what grooming is.
Tony Covington (10:22):
When we talk about grooming, we talk about
the effort that the predator,and I'll use the word predator
because that's exactly whatthese people are, you know, you
don't just happen to fall intoabusing a child.
This is something that is veryplanned, pre-planned, and people
take a whole lot of steps to getto their goal of abusing that
child sexually.
Okay.
So grooming is that process andthe predator doesn't just groom
(10:47):
the child.
Sure, the predator might be onand meet a kid over the internet
and that's a huge problem aswell.
Okay.
Parents please pay attention towhat your children are doing on
their computers and on theirphones and their iPads.
But a predator may be grooming achild, getting to know that
child, getting that child totrust him.
Talk about those things that the10 year old, 11 year old, 12
(11:12):
year old, whatever it is wantsto talk about.
Okay, becoming a friend,befriending that child.
Kristen Schulz (11:20):
Being on their level.
Tony Covington (11:20):
But also, they groom the family.
They groom the workplace.
In the instance of say, theschools, the predators going to
be the guy who's always helpingeverybody out.
'Oh, somebody needs a ride home,I'll take him or her home.'
Right?
Kristen Schulz (11:35):
Right.
Tony Covington (11:36):
Nobody has a bad word to say about the person
because they're grooming theperson.
They want everybody to believethat if any child ever accuses
them, there's no way in theworld that this particular
person would commit that typeof, of crime.
And it also happens in families.
They groom people and thepredators, it's, you know, there
(12:00):
was a documentary out not toolong ago.
It's called Leaving Neverlandabout Michael Jackson's
situation.
I'm not going to get intowhether Michael Jackson was a
predator or not.
I'm not going to get into that.
What I do want to point out, andI recommend this documentary to
everybody who wants to know howpredators behave.
(12:21):
Because the two individuals onthere, either they have PhDs in
child sexual abuse things, orthey really did undergo the
grooming process from apredator.
Alright?
All the things that you talkabout there- having somebody-
having a child trust the adult.
(12:41):
All of that is in there.
All the examples are there, butthe most important thing that
comes out of that and is truegenerally from my experience and
you talked to all the expertsout there, child sexual abuse is
much less force than it isseduction.
And the seduction comes in manyforms.
(13:03):
Whether it's you want an iPhone,do this for me, right?
Get to be a friend.
It's all seduction.
And kids don't report oftentimesbecause they are fearful that
something will happen, not tothem, but to the predator.
Kristen Schulz (13:24):
Oh wow.
Trying to protect them.
Tony Covington (13:25):
Right.
That grooming process is so welldone that they don't want the
predator to get in trouble andthe predator will tell the
child,'Hey, look, if you evertell our secret, my life is
going to be ruined and your lifewill be ruined too.' But the kid
doesn't worry too much about hisown life.
Worries more about the predator.
(13:47):
You know, I know that we havethis vision of a child walking
home from school and somebodysnatching him or her and taking
them off and doing something tohim or her.
And undoubtedly that doeshappen, but it's very rare.
Most often it is the seductionprocess.
It's the grooming process ofgetting the trust and getting
(14:09):
the child to feel for thepredator, but also making the
child part of the wrong that'sbeing done.
For instance, predators willoftentimes introduce alcohol,
marijuana- and every kid knowstheir not supposed to be
drinking or smoking marijuana atthat age.
(14:30):
So they know that what they'redoing is wrong.
That's another level of...
Kristen Schulz (14:33):
Gives them leverage.
Tony Covington (14:34):
Right.
That's another level of keepingthe child's mouth shut about
what's going on.
Yeah.
Kandes Carter (14:42):
So now we know a little bit about the grooming
process and we know that kidsdon't always open up to their
parents about abuse.
So what are some things or someindicators that a child might be
being abused?
Tony Covington (14:55):
That's the real difficult part.
Okay.
Because some of the things thatbehaviors that a child will
enter into after being abusedover time or for the first time
could also be something else.
You know, the problem withteenagers is, you know, those
hormones are going; they'regrowing and you have all that
(15:20):
teenage angst and everythingthat goes on.
And so identifying this newbehavior that's coming up and
pinpointing it to abuse isdifficult.
Alright?
But that's part of it.
And of course, that's part ofbeing a parent and part of being
a guardian part of caring forchildren is to pay attention to
(15:40):
what's going on in their life,pay attention to their moods and
everything.
If your child, you know, verysimple one, if your child's a
straight a student, all of asudden the grades go into the
toilet.
You need to be talking to yourchild.
Kristen Schulz (15:53):
Right.
Tony Covington (15:53):
If all of a sudden, kid doesn't want to go
over to somebody's houseanymore, say a relative's house,
'I don't want to go over touncle so and so's house.
I don't want to go to grandpa'shouse.
I don't want to go to cousinso-and-so's house.' Well it
might be because somebody overthere is abusing them.
Right?
Kandes Carter (16:09):
Right.
Tony Covington (16:09):
And if children are having excessive secrets
about this, that and the other-I don't know, kids always have
secrets.
Like I say, it's very difficultto see these things.
Alright, but you have toremember because the predators
are rarely, and I mean veryrarely, using violence to commit
the abuse, you're not going tosee physical signs of it; you're
(16:30):
not going to see physicalinjuries or things of that
nature.
Kristen Schulz (16:32):
It's probably confusing to the kids too.
They think abuse, I must, I haveto be getting hurt for it to be
abuse.
Tony Covington (16:38):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you brought that upKristen, because language and
how you talk to your kids isreally important.
If you say to your child, ifanybody ever hurts you, make
sure you tell me.
Well, we have to be realisticabout this.
When you're talking about sexualacts, even with a child,
certainly a teenager, but even achild, those acts may not be
(17:01):
hurtful.
They may be pleasurable.
And so when you say if somebodyever hurts you, tell me about
it.
Well as far as they'reconcerned, in their mind they're
not being hurt.
Alright.
The language should be, ifanybody touches you here,
anybody touches you there,anybody asks you to touch them
here or there.
You have to be very, veryliteral with children, very
(17:24):
little with them.
And I'm not talking about justunder age 10, I'm talking about
in the teenage years as well.
You have to be very literal withit because it is confusing for
them.
It's confusing for them that'hey, my parents have told me
that this type of conduct isn'tsomething that I should do.
Yet when I do it, it'spleasurable.
Yet when I do it, it makes thisperson who I trust happy.'
(17:46):
Right?
Kristen Schulz (17:47):
Very confusing.
Tony Covington (17:47):
So it's very confusing for them and that's
why it's so important to havethe line of communication; that
is the most important thing whenit comes to sexual child abuse
and trying to prevent it.
It's difficult to know whatbehaviors demonstrate that this
child is being abused.
But even if you do have thosebehaviors, you don't have proof
(18:08):
of it until you talk to thechild, which is why you have to
be able to have that opencommunication where the kid
trusts you.
I can tell you from, you know, Imentioned the Carlos Bell case.
So many of those victims'parents were distraught, not
just because of the harm thathad come to their children, but
(18:31):
because they firmly believed andthought that their children
would tell them.
They had taken the time to sitdown with their child beforehand
and say, if this happens, ifthat happens, say something to
me.
And out of all the 42 victimsthat we had in that case, not a
single one of them came forwardon their own.
Kristen Schulz (18:50):
That's amazing.
Tony Covington (18:51):
All these children, not a single one of
them.
And we're talking from ages 11to 16 or 17, all through
evidence and investigation andvideotapes, were the police
officers able to identify peopleand go to these kids.
So, the point is, is that kidsdon't want to talk about that
(19:12):
stuff in the first place.
Two, they don't necessarily seeit as harmful.
Three, they certainly see it assomething, most of the time,
that they shouldn't be doing, sothey're not gonna want to talk
about.
So it is critically important tolook for those signs.
But again, you gotta be able totalk to your kid about these
things and get them to open upabout it.
Kristen Schulz (19:34):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (19:35):
And please note, I need to add this to this real
quick.
These kids, they are the norm.
What do I mean by that?
I mean by that, sexual assaultvictims, whether they are
children or the adults, rarelyreport in a timely fashion.
They don't report immediatelyafter the abuse or the crime.
(19:58):
70% of them, some of them neverreport.
But even those children andadults who do report sexual
assaults, 70% of them do solate.
So they are the norm.
I know that everybody wants tothink about, well, if some, if
something like that happened tome, then I would report it right
(20:19):
away.
Well, that's not the truth.
And you say to yourself, why?
And since we're talking aboutchildren, I can give you a
couple of examples why.
Had a case, it's a 40 year oldcase.
Woman was sexually abused by herbiological father for years.
She never said a word.
She lived a lifetime before shereported the abuse.
(20:43):
What motivated her to report it40 years later?
Her mother, the abuser'shusband, he was still living,
but the mother died.
And this lady said I was notgoing to break my mother's
heart.
She loved her husband.
She wasn't going to do it, butshe wanted him to be held
(21:05):
accountable later on in life andthe gentleman, he ended up
pleading guilty to thosecharges.
They were true.
Another example, kind of thesame, but a little bit
different.
Highschooler senior, she neverreported.
She didn't come forward.
Somehow, some way the policefound out about what was going
on in her home.
Her father was sexually abusingher for years.
(21:27):
Police talked to her.
She finally admitted what wasgoing on and I personally had
the opportunity to ask thisyoung lady, why didn't you say
something?
And she told me, Mr.
Covington got a mother who lovesher husband.
I have brothers who loved theirfather.
I was not going to be the personto ruin my household.
(21:51):
That abuser also pled guilty.
So you never know why peoplearen't going to report,
especially children, but theyalways have a good reason, at
least to them.
Because somebody does not reportsexual assault immediately, does
not mean that they're nottelling the truth.
Those two examples clearly showthat.
(22:12):
So again, it is criticallyimportant to try to talk to your
children.
Try to keep that lines ofcommunication open because they
have reasons for keeping theirsecrets.
Kristen Schulz (22:24):
So you say it's critically important to look for
the signs of abuse.
So say you're a parent and yoususpect or someone tells you
about a physical or sexual childabuse.
How do people go about reportingit?
Tony Covington (22:36):
Very simple.
Call the police.
That's the easiest thing to do.
And the quickest thing to do.
Or you can call department ofsocial services, you can contact
a number of places that will getthe police involved.
Many children and parents forthat matter, will report through
the school system because theschools kind of find out
themselves.
(22:56):
Oftentimes, it'll be a friend ofthe child who will say something
to say their parent,'Hey, here'swhat's going on with Molly.' And
then that parent, hopefully willtalk to the victim's parent and
then somebody will get someassistance.
But reporting child abuse,whether it's physical or sexual
is very easy.
(23:17):
It's just like reporting anyother crime.
It is a crime and somethingneeds to be done about it.
And you report it.
We have in our law, believe itor not, mandatory reporters,
those are people who are incertain professions who are
required by law to report childabuse and sexual child abuse, as
(23:39):
well, to the authorities, theauthorities being the police,
basically, doctors, right.
All sorts of folks in differentwalks of life, nurses, anybody
in the hospital obviously, andthe schools.
Obviously cause our kids are inschool all the time, it's going
to be likely that the schoolswill see things.
As a matter of fact, they'vedone some stats that the place
(24:02):
where folks are going to haveknowledge of sexual abuse the
most- child sexual abuse themost- is the schools as compared
to the church, the Boys andGirls Club, doctors even.
Far more than, I mean doctorsare, I'm not going to say the
last to know, but are very smallpercentage of those folks who
have knowledge of the sexualabuse that may or may not be
(24:25):
going on.
Kandes Carter (24:27):
So you mentioned the school system and school
employees being mandatoryreporters.
Tony Covington (24:32):
Right.
Kandes Carter (24:32):
You also mentioned earlier Carlos Bell,
who was a staff member from theschool system, and it just seems
like recently we've seen a lotof headlines unfortunately,
where there are staff fromschools that are abusing the
kids.
What are some things that we cando to prevent that?
Tony Covington (24:51):
Okay, well first let me say this
difficult to know whether or notthere has been an increase of
child abuse within our schoolshere or anywhere because again,
it is so rarely reported.
Alright.
But we shouldn't be surprised byit.
Okay.
(25:12):
Predators who have an appetite,and that's what it is.
I mean, let's be, let's justbreak this down brass tacks
here.
Okay.
Yeah.
Someone who is a pedophile wantsto have sexual relations with a
child.
Right.
Where are our children everyday?
(25:33):
Matter of fact, by law where ourchildren every day?
Kandes Carter (25:36):
At school.
Tony Covington (25:36):
They're at the school system.
Kristen Schulz (25:38):
The best place to put yourself if you're a
[pedophile].
Tony Covington (25:40):
That's correct.
We should not be surprised thatpedophiles try to get into the
school system or become a busdriver or become anything where
they can be around children.
And I'm not even going to getinto the church issues, but same
type of thing dealing withchildren.
You're going to have people whoare going to gravitate, if you
(26:02):
will.
But it's not just byhappenstance.
It's purposeful to be aroundkids, to have the opportunity to
take, to feed their appetite.
And you know, let's be realabout it.
That's an appetite that doesn'treally change.
I mean, it's just like askingany of us here, anybody who's
listening to this, okay, yeah,we want you to change your
(26:23):
sexual appetite and your urges.
Now we're human beings, right?
And we're able to overcomethings that are not good and we
can discipline ourselves.
But some folks, they just don'twant to discipline themselves.
They don't want to not act onthose urges and things of that
nature.
So it's a difficulty.
Now you ask me and I said allthat because you asked me about
(26:46):
what can we do in the schools.
I've advocated and I've talkedto the people who have decision
making authority on thesethings.
It's very simple to me,especially in our school system.
You know, everybody wants toharden our school facilities
because we're so concerned aboutmass shootings and we should be,
but we already have dangerwithin our schools.
(27:06):
I mean we can't pretend likefolks who are going to do harm
to our children don't exist andthey are not there.
They are there.
I was in the military for abouteight years or so.
I was an Intelligence Officer,that means I had the highest
clearances that you couldpossibly get.
And one thing that we had to do,and I'm answering your question
by the way, doesn't sound like Iam, but I am.
(27:28):
One thing that we had to do waswe had to take a polygraph and
lie detector test.
Right.
And we had to take themroutinely, but you also had to
take one in order to get yourclearance.
Right.
I know that the police, somepolice agencies, in order to
hire you, you have to take apolygraph, a lie detector.
Let me ask you a question.
(27:49):
If we know that pedophiles aregoing to be attracted to our
school systems or any otherindustry that deals with kids
all the time, why wouldn't weuse polygraphs and lie detectors
to determine if they have apenchant for pedophilia?
Kristen Schulz (28:12):
That's a good point.
Tony Covington (28:13):
Why wouldn't we do that?
Other agencies, the militaryintelligence, police use
polygraphs all the time.
And I'm not talking about witchhunts, this, that, and the
other.
But you can design polygraphsvery specifically to find out
whether or not a particularperson has an interest in having
relations with a child.
(28:34):
That would go a long way.
And I'm not talking about- I'mbeing practical about it here-
I'm not talking about going backand giving polygraphs to all the
teachers who are already there.
You'd never get that proposalpass the unions I suppose.
Alright.
But anybody, new hires, if I wasin charge, I'd be imposing
(28:54):
polygraphs in if you want to behired as a teacher.
And let me tell you something, Isay this is a person who is
related to a whole bunch ofeducators.
Okay.
All throughout my family folks,you know, my brother's retired,
wife...okay.
They're educators and I'vetalked with them about it and
they're like, they would have noproblem whatsoever taking that
polygraph.
Right.
Because ultimately it's toprotect the children.
(29:18):
And our schools aren't justthere to educate our kids,
because the kids are there andthe kids have to be there, part
of their mandate is to protectour children.
Kristen Schulz (29:28):
Absolutely.
Kandes Carter (29:29):
Yeah.
Tony Covington (29:29):
So to me it's not a whole lot to ask.
I know it will be moneyobviously.
But I think money well spent.
Kristen Schulz (29:35):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (29:36):
Money, well, better spent on that then trying
to put metal detectors andeverything else at the schools
and all that.
I mean those events that happenas tragic as they are, thank
goodness are still not aneveryday occurrence.
When you start adding up thechild abuse that takes place in
our nation's schools compared tothe mass violence that happens,
(30:01):
trust me, they're far morevictims on the child abuse side,
and that's just a matter of arewe going to do something about
it?
Can we do something about it?
I think we can and one of themis to have polygraphs in those
industries where people aretaking care of our kids and have
unfettered access to ourchildren.
Kandes Carter (30:19):
Okay.
Tony Covington (30:21):
So ladies and gentlemen, that's it for the
podcast today.
But let me recap.
First, on physical child abuse-that's using corporal
punishment- please don'tdiscipline your children when
you are angry.
You can get carried away and ifyou get carried away and you
leave marks on your children,you may find yourself in front
(30:44):
of a grand jury here in CharlesCounty because as I've told you,
that's my rule of thumb.
When I look at a case, if thereare marks on a child, the grand
jury is going to at least lookat it.
Can't guarantee what will happenfrom there.
From child sexual abuse, ladiesand gentlemen, please keep that
open line of communication withyour children.
Also, sometimes your kids maynot talk to you, but guess what
(31:06):
will talk to you?
Their devices.
These kids, not just kids,everybody really, lives their
life on their devices nowadays.
If you have some concerns andquestions, look at their
devices.
I'm not one of those folks, oneof those parents who believed in
a whole lot of privacy forchildren because it's my job to
(31:28):
take care of them and I got toknow what's going on in their
life.
And lastly, we can do somethingto help keep predators and
pedophiles away from our kids,especially at our schools, but
any other industry wherechildren have to be and
pedophiles are drawn to.
So seriously from a politicalstandpoint, from a practical
(31:50):
standpoint, if you think thatpolygraphs would be a good
thing, contact the people whomake that decision.
Commissioners, your schoolboard.
Don't be afraid.
I know it sounds trite, butguess what?
You want change?
Tell the people that you'veelected to do things and change
will happen if enough people sayit.
And also lastly, thank you forthe questions that you send in
(32:14):
that help us develop and producethese podcasts.
Without your questions, we don'tknow what you care about.
So we appreciate that and wehope that you keep on sending
those in.
Thank you for listening to theTony Talks Charles County Crime
and please take the time tosubscribe to the podcast.
(32:38):
Covington out.
Welcome, Tony Covington here.
Thanks for listening to TonyTalks Charles County Crime, the
official podcast at the State'sAttorney's Office here in
Charles County.
Today we're going to talk abouta topic that is always relevant,
whether or not it gets a lot ofattention in the media on a
day-to-day basis.
We're going to talk about childabuse, two types of child abuse,
(00:36):
physical child abuse and sexualchild abuse.
I'll define those here in alittle bit, but first let me
tell you that I've got KandesCarter here with me and Kristen
Schultz here with me and we'regoing to have a little
discussion about this.
Welcome ladies.
KS & KC (00:50):
Thank you.
Tony Covington (00:52):
Okay.
Who wants to- we're going totalk about physical child abuse
first.
It's a little bit more straightforward.
So let's talk about that first.
Do you have any questions thatwe got from the citizens that
pertained to physical childabuse?
Kandes Carter (01:04):
So let's start with what's the definition of
child abuse?
Tony Covington (01:08):
Okay, that's pretty straight forward.
Child abuse, especially on thephysical child abuse side is
inflicting any injury or type ofabuse.
I know you never definesomething with the word itself,
but abuse can be more than justphysical.
For instance, if you were toterrify a child that here
they're going to get hurt orsomething like that.
(01:30):
We've had people literally tiechildren to trees or to rails
and leave them there.
There's no injury as a result ofthat.
No, maybe not even any exposureto the elements, but that would
be abuse.
So anything that somebody doeson the physical side, nonsexual,
okay, that could amount tophysical child abuse.
(01:51):
Now, you got to point this outvery quickly, it's not just
anybody.
If I'm walking down the aisle atsome grocery store and some kid
is screaming and hollering, Ismack him upside the head.
That is not child abuse.
It's obviously an assault and Ican get charged with that.
Kristen Schulz (02:05):
I didn't know that
Tony Covington (02:05):
But child abuse, there must be a particular
relationship between the childand the adult committing the
acts.
Kristen Schulz (02:14):
Just family?
Or what kind of relationship?
Tony Covington (02:16):
Relationship has to be with somebody who has care
and custody of the child, forinstance: babysitter, teachers.
If I let my kid go with you onan overnight camping, you have
temporary care and custody of mychild, you're not supposed to be
abusing my child, right?
So if you do something, thatcould be child abuse.
So you have to have thatparticular relationship then
(02:36):
they call it temporary care andcustody or permanent care and
custody.
And if you live in a house withthe child and you're assaulting
that child, that can be childabuse.
Or if you are a family member.
Alright, so specialrelationship, temporary care and
custody, family member or ahousehold member, that all gets
you in the ambit of physicalchild abuse and sexual child
(03:01):
abuse.
It's the same rules apply forsexual child abuse as well.
Kristen Schulz (03:05):
So speaking of families, does a parent have the
right to physically disciplinetheir child or no?
Tony Covington (03:11):
That's a good question and I hear about that
all the time.
Folks always want to harken backto the good old days when, you
know, a parent could do justabout anything to a child and
not have to worry about it.
Well, someone said, you know,the good old days weren't always
good and the present is not asbad as it seems.
But anyway, yes.
(03:32):
Here in Maryland, contrary to alot of people's opinion, parents
do have the right to corporallypunish their children.
In other words, discipliningthem with physical punishment,
spankings, whatever.
Alright.
Now you can't get carried away.
Kristen Schulz (03:53):
Right.
Tony Covington (03:53):
Excessive discipline, meaning you went
overboard when you weredisciplining your child- and
please make sure you understandsomething, when it comes to
child abuse and it comes tocorporal punishment, you must be
doing whatever it is that you'redoing for the purpose of
discipline, not just becauseyou're mad, not just cause you
got a bad day at work.
Kandes Carter (04:14):
Right.
Tony Covington (04:14):
You know, not because you're going to come
home and kick your dog and thenbeat your kids and then beat
your wife.
No, it doesn't work that way.
It must be directly connected todiscipline.
Now, what is excessive?
It's kind of hard to define.
So, I'm being very careful withmy words here because this is
specific to the State'sAttorney's Office here in
(04:35):
Charles County.
I believe, and I'm going to actaccordingly, that if you go
around leaving marks on yourchildren, bruises, cuts, things
of that nature, when you'redisciplining your child, you
have gone too far and that casewill be presented to the grand
jury.
And then the grand jury maydecide, you know what, given the
(04:57):
circumstances, we don't thinkit's child abuse and they don't
want to charge the case.
But from my perspective, fromthe State's Attorney's
perspective, that's the rule ofthumb here in Charles County for
me.
I can't speak for any otherjurisdiction.
Just mine.
And you know, that goes back tomy childhood.
You know, my father, my fatherand mother did not spare the
rod.
Okay.
I was disciplined corporatelyall the time.
(05:19):
My Dad was a big man, you know,six foot, two forty solid rock.
He was an army officer, airborneranger, the whole nine.
And he never left a mark on me.
And I got more than my- no, notmore than my share of beatings.
I deserved every single one ofthem.
Okay.
You know, and I got away withsome stuff that I probably
shouldn't have.
(05:40):
But because of that, you know,that rule of thumb don't leave
marks on your children, youshould be alright.
Excessive discipline can be aproblem.
Alright.
When it occurs, oftentimes wefind out from another family
member, we find out from theschools- that's normally how we
kind of find out about itbecause the kid will go to
(06:01):
school and somebody will seesomething.
That's how it normally happens.
Rarely do the children callthemselves.
Kristen Schulz (06:07):
Right.
Tony Covington (06:07):
Sometimes we have a mother and father who
have split up and you know, oneof them is mad at the other and
then you find out about it thatway too.
But the bottom line is you havethe right to physically
discipline your child.
You cannot be excessive aboutit.
And here in Charles County, Itake the protection of children
very seriously.
And if you are excessive aboutit by leaving marks on the
(06:29):
child, that case will be goingin front of the grand jury.
Kristen Schulz (06:32):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (06:35):
Okay.
So were there any otherquestions from the community on
physical child abuse?
Kristen Schulz (06:41):
No, not on physical.
Tony Covington (06:42):
Alright, well, let me transition into sexual
child abuse.
That is a huge problem.
It has been in the news in thelast year or two, especially
here in Charles County, and itshould be.
Child sexual abuse is one of themost under-reported crimes that
there is, perhaps only outpacedby domestic violence.
(07:03):
It is a huge problem thatimpacts not just the person who
was abused at the time, but fora lifetime.
It impacts their relationshipswith everybody else and it
causes tremendous emotionalpsychological damage, like I
say, temporarily andpermanently.
(07:24):
We don't deal with child sexualabuse well enough in our court
system.
It is a very difficult thing todeal with.
You can never make your victimwhole, but you try to hold
people accountable.
But again, it's veryunder-reported.
One in five females will besexually abused as a child.
Kandes Carter (07:47):
Wow.
Tony Covington (07:49):
One in 20 males will be abused sexually as
children.
The age range where they're mostvulnerable is from seven years
old to 13 years old.
And it occurs in all places;homes; schools; unfortunately,
churches; wherever it can occur.
(08:11):
So child sexual abuse is a largeproblem.
Here in Charles County, werecall the last couple of years
we had the huge case with CarlosBell.
It had 42 victims.
So it's a huge problem.
I think I've laid that outpretty quick here.
(08:32):
What questions do I have on it,on this very complicated issue.
Kandes Carter (08:37):
So we oftentimes teach children about
stranger-danger, but howprevalent is it that a stranger
is the one that's actuallyabusing a child?
Tony Covington (08:45):
That's a great question, Kandes.
And it's the number one thingthat I would like to say about
child abuse.
Parents, everybody who caresabout kids out there, stranger
danger, we need to keep talkingabout it.
Okay.
But fully 75%, three quarters ofkids who are abused, are abused
by somebody that they know andthat they know well.
(09:09):
This just isn't someacquaintance that they happen to
see.
Wherever it happens, whereverthey happen to be, it's someone
that they know well- an adult.
And there are also- and I needto point out, point this out-
there are also a lot ofjuveniles who make up the
abusers as well.
So you will have juvenilesabusing juveniles and
(09:32):
oftentimes, if not most of thetime, that juvenile has already
been abused themselves.
That's how they learned thebehavior to abuse somebody else.
So that is something that's outthere.
But the stranger danger moniker,like I say, it is good to tell
your children, you know, don'ttake money from strangers; don't
(09:54):
take a ride from strangers;this, that and the other.
But parents, guardians have toespecially be concerned with the
people that are in yourchildren's life.
You have to be vigilant becausethose are the people who are
doing the abusing three quartersof the time.
Kristen Schulz (10:11):
You hear the word grooming.
Is that what, you know, they'recomfortable with the family?
You don't suspect that it's thecoach or whatever.
Explain what grooming is.
Tony Covington (10:22):
When we talk about grooming, we talk about
the effort that the predator,and I'll use the word predator
because that's exactly whatthese people are, you know, you
don't just happen to fall intoabusing a child.
This is something that is veryplanned, pre-planned, and people
take a whole lot of steps to getto their goal of abusing that
child sexually.
Okay.
So grooming is that process andthe predator doesn't just groom
(10:47):
the child.
Sure, the predator might be onand meet a kid over the internet
and that's a huge problem aswell.
Okay.
Parents please pay attention towhat your children are doing on
their computers and on theirphones and their iPads.
But a predator may be grooming achild, getting to know that
child, getting that child totrust him.
Talk about those things that the10 year old, 11 year old, 12
(11:12):
year old, whatever it is wantsto talk about.
Okay, becoming a friend,befriending that child.
Kristen Schulz (11:20):
Being on their level.
Tony Covington (11:20):
But also, they groom the family.
They groom the workplace.
In the instance of say, theschools, the predators going to
be the guy who's always helpingeverybody out.
'Oh, somebody needs a ride home,I'll take him or her home.'
Right?
Kristen Schulz (11:35):
Right.
Tony Covington (11:36):
Nobody has a bad word to say about the person
because they're grooming theperson.
They want everybody to believethat if any child ever accuses
them, there's no way in theworld that this particular
person would commit that typeof, of crime.
And it also happens in families.
They groom people and thepredators, it's, you know, there
(12:00):
was a documentary out not toolong ago.
It's called Leaving Neverlandabout Michael Jackson's
situation.
I'm not going to get intowhether Michael Jackson was a
predator or not.
I'm not going to get into that.
What I do want to point out, andI recommend this documentary to
everybody who wants to know howpredators behave.
(12:21):
Because the two individuals onthere, either they have PhDs in
child sexual abuse things, orthey really did undergo the
grooming process from apredator.
Alright?
All the things that you talkabout there- having somebody-
having a child trust the adult.
(12:41):
All of that is in there.
All the examples are there, butthe most important thing that
comes out of that and is truegenerally from my experience and
you talked to all the expertsout there, child sexual abuse is
much less force than it isseduction.
And the seduction comes in manyforms.
(13:03):
Whether it's you want an iPhone,do this for me, right?
Get to be a friend.
It's all seduction.
And kids don't report oftentimesbecause they are fearful that
something will happen, not tothem, but to the predator.
Kristen Schulz (13:24):
Oh wow.
Trying to protect them.
Tony Covington (13:25):
Right.
That grooming process is so welldone that they don't want the
predator to get in trouble andthe predator will tell the
child,'Hey, look, if you evertell our secret, my life is
going to be ruined and your lifewill be ruined too.' But the kid
doesn't worry too much about hisown life.
Worries more about the predator.
(13:47):
You know, I know that we havethis vision of a child walking
home from school and somebodysnatching him or her and taking
them off and doing something tohim or her.
And undoubtedly that doeshappen, but it's very rare.
Most often it is the seductionprocess.
It's the grooming process ofgetting the trust and getting
(14:09):
the child to feel for thepredator, but also making the
child part of the wrong that'sbeing done.
For instance, predators willoftentimes introduce alcohol,
marijuana- and every kid knowstheir not supposed to be
drinking or smoking marijuana atthat age.
(14:30):
So they know that what they'redoing is wrong.
That's another level of...
Kristen Schulz (14:33):
Gives them leverage.
Tony Covington (14:34):
Right.
That's another level of keepingthe child's mouth shut about
what's going on.
Yeah.
Kandes Carter (14:42):
So now we know a little bit about the grooming
process and we know that kidsdon't always open up to their
parents about abuse.
So what are some things or someindicators that a child might be
being abused?
Tony Covington (14:55):
That's the real difficult part.
Okay.
Because some of the things thatbehaviors that a child will
enter into after being abusedover time or for the first time
could also be something else.
You know, the problem withteenagers is, you know, those
hormones are going; they'regrowing and you have all that
(15:20):
teenage angst and everythingthat goes on.
And so identifying this newbehavior that's coming up and
pinpointing it to abuse isdifficult.
Alright?
But that's part of it.
And of course, that's part ofbeing a parent and part of being
a guardian part of caring forchildren is to pay attention to
(15:40):
what's going on in their life,pay attention to their moods and
everything.
If your child, you know, verysimple one, if your child's a
straight a student, all of asudden the grades go into the
toilet.
You need to be talking to yourchild.
Kristen Schulz (15:53):
Right.
Tony Covington (15:53):
If all of a sudden, kid doesn't want to go
over to somebody's houseanymore, say a relative's house,
'I don't want to go over touncle so and so's house.
I don't want to go to grandpa'shouse.
I don't want to go to cousinso-and-so's house.' Well it
might be because somebody overthere is abusing them.
Right?
Kandes Carter (16:09):
Right.
Tony Covington (16:09):
And if children are having excessive secrets
about this, that and the other-I don't know, kids always have
secrets.
Like I say, it's very difficultto see these things.
Alright, but you have toremember because the predators
are rarely, and I mean veryrarely, using violence to commit
the abuse, you're not going tosee physical signs of it; you're
(16:30):
not going to see physicalinjuries or things of that
nature.
Kristen Schulz (16:32):
It's probably confusing to the kids too.
They think abuse, I must, I haveto be getting hurt for it to be
abuse.
Tony Covington (16:38):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you brought that upKristen, because language and
how you talk to your kids isreally important.
If you say to your child, ifanybody ever hurts you, make
sure you tell me.
Well, we have to be realisticabout this.
When you're talking about sexualacts, even with a child,
certainly a teenager, but even achild, those acts may not be
(17:01):
hurtful.
They may be pleasurable.
And so when you say if somebodyever hurts you, tell me about
it.
Well as far as they'reconcerned, in their mind they're
not being hurt.
Alright.
The language should be, ifanybody touches you here,
anybody touches you there,anybody asks you to touch them
here or there.
You have to be very, veryliteral with children, very
(17:24):
little with them.
And I'm not talking about justunder age 10, I'm talking about
in the teenage years as well.
You have to be very literal withit because it is confusing for
them.
It's confusing for them that'hey, my parents have told me
that this type of conduct isn'tsomething that I should do.
Yet when I do it, it'spleasurable.
Yet when I do it, it makes thisperson who I trust happy.'
(17:46):
Right?
Kristen Schulz (17:47):
Very confusing.
Tony Covington (17:47):
So it's very confusing for them and that's
why it's so important to havethe line of communication; that
is the most important thing whenit comes to sexual child abuse
and trying to prevent it.
It's difficult to know whatbehaviors demonstrate that this
child is being abused.
But even if you do have thosebehaviors, you don't have proof
(18:08):
of it until you talk to thechild, which is why you have to
be able to have that opencommunication where the kid
trusts you.
I can tell you from, you know, Imentioned the Carlos Bell case.
So many of those victims'parents were distraught, not
just because of the harm thathad come to their children, but
(18:31):
because they firmly believed andthought that their children
would tell them.
They had taken the time to sitdown with their child beforehand
and say, if this happens, ifthat happens, say something to
me.
And out of all the 42 victimsthat we had in that case, not a
single one of them came forwardon their own.
Kristen Schulz (18:50):
That's amazing.
Tony Covington (18:51):
All these children, not a single one of
them.
And we're talking from ages 11to 16 or 17, all through
evidence and investigation andvideotapes, were the police
officers able to identify peopleand go to these kids.
So, the point is, is that kidsdon't want to talk about that
(19:12):
stuff in the first place.
Two, they don't necessarily seeit as harmful.
Three, they certainly see it assomething, most of the time,
that they shouldn't be doing, sothey're not gonna want to talk
about.
So it is critically important tolook for those signs.
But again, you gotta be able totalk to your kid about these
things and get them to open upabout it.
Kristen Schulz (19:34):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (19:35):
And please note, I need to add this to this real
quick.
These kids, they are the norm.
What do I mean by that?
I mean by that, sexual assaultvictims, whether they are
children or the adults, rarelyreport in a timely fashion.
They don't report immediatelyafter the abuse or the crime.
(19:58):
70% of them, some of them neverreport.
But even those children andadults who do report sexual
assaults, 70% of them do solate.
So they are the norm.
I know that everybody wants tothink about, well, if some, if
something like that happened tome, then I would report it right
(20:19):
away.
Well, that's not the truth.
And you say to yourself, why?
And since we're talking aboutchildren, I can give you a
couple of examples why.
Had a case, it's a 40 year oldcase.
Woman was sexually abused by herbiological father for years.
She never said a word.
She lived a lifetime before shereported the abuse.
(20:43):
What motivated her to report it40 years later?
Her mother, the abuser'shusband, he was still living,
but the mother died.
And this lady said I was notgoing to break my mother's
heart.
She loved her husband.
She wasn't going to do it, butshe wanted him to be held
(21:05):
accountable later on in life andthe gentleman, he ended up
pleading guilty to thosecharges.
They were true.
Another example, kind of thesame, but a little bit
different.
Highschooler senior, she neverreported.
She didn't come forward.
Somehow, some way the policefound out about what was going
on in her home.
Her father was sexually abusingher for years.
(21:27):
Police talked to her.
She finally admitted what wasgoing on and I personally had
the opportunity to ask thisyoung lady, why didn't you say
something?
And she told me, Mr.
Covington got a mother who lovesher husband.
I have brothers who loved theirfather.
I was not going to be the personto ruin my household.
(21:51):
That abuser also pled guilty.
So you never know why peoplearen't going to report,
especially children, but theyalways have a good reason, at
least to them.
Because somebody does not reportsexual assault immediately, does
not mean that they're nottelling the truth.
Those two examples clearly showthat.
(22:12):
So again, it is criticallyimportant to try to talk to your
children.
Try to keep that lines ofcommunication open because they
have reasons for keeping theirsecrets.
Kristen Schulz (22:24):
So you say it's critically important to look for
the signs of abuse.
So say you're a parent and yoususpect or someone tells you
about a physical or sexual childabuse.
How do people go about reportingit?
Tony Covington (22:36):
Very simple.
Call the police.
That's the easiest thing to do.
And the quickest thing to do.
Or you can call department ofsocial services, you can contact
a number of places that will getthe police involved.
Many children and parents forthat matter, will report through
the school system because theschools kind of find out
themselves.
(22:56):
Oftentimes, it'll be a friend ofthe child who will say something
to say their parent,'Hey, here'swhat's going on with Molly.' And
then that parent, hopefully willtalk to the victim's parent and
then somebody will get someassistance.
But reporting child abuse,whether it's physical or sexual
is very easy.
(23:17):
It's just like reporting anyother crime.
It is a crime and somethingneeds to be done about it.
And you report it.
We have in our law, believe itor not, mandatory reporters,
those are people who are incertain professions who are
required by law to report childabuse and sexual child abuse, as
(23:39):
well, to the authorities, theauthorities being the police,
basically, doctors, right.
All sorts of folks in differentwalks of life, nurses, anybody
in the hospital obviously, andthe schools.
Obviously cause our kids are inschool all the time, it's going
to be likely that the schoolswill see things.
As a matter of fact, they'vedone some stats that the place
(24:02):
where folks are going to haveknowledge of sexual abuse the
most- child sexual abuse themost- is the schools as compared
to the church, the Boys andGirls Club, doctors even.
Far more than, I mean doctorsare, I'm not going to say the
last to know, but are very smallpercentage of those folks who
have knowledge of the sexualabuse that may or may not be
(24:25):
going on.
Kandes Carter (24:27):
So you mentioned the school system and school
employees being mandatoryreporters.
Tony Covington (24:32):
Right.
Kandes Carter (24:32):
You also mentioned earlier Carlos Bell,
who was a staff member from theschool system, and it just seems
like recently we've seen a lotof headlines unfortunately,
where there are staff fromschools that are abusing the
kids.
What are some things that we cando to prevent that?
Tony Covington (24:51):
Okay, well first let me say this
difficult to know whether or notthere has been an increase of
child abuse within our schoolshere or anywhere because again,
it is so rarely reported.
Alright.
But we shouldn't be surprised byit.
Okay.
(25:12):
Predators who have an appetite,and that's what it is.
I mean, let's be, let's justbreak this down brass tacks
here.
Okay.
Yeah.
Someone who is a pedophile wantsto have sexual relations with a
child.
Right.
Where are our children everyday?
(25:33):
Matter of fact, by law where ourchildren every day?
Kandes Carter (25:36):
At school.
Tony Covington (25:36):
They're at the school system.
Kristen Schulz (25:38):
The best place to put yourself if you're a
[pedophile].
Tony Covington (25:40):
That's correct.
We should not be surprised thatpedophiles try to get into the
school system or become a busdriver or become anything where
they can be around children.
And I'm not even going to getinto the church issues, but same
type of thing dealing withchildren.
You're going to have people whoare going to gravitate, if you
(26:02):
will.
But it's not just byhappenstance.
It's purposeful to be aroundkids, to have the opportunity to
take, to feed their appetite.
And you know, let's be realabout it.
That's an appetite that doesn'treally change.
I mean, it's just like askingany of us here, anybody who's
listening to this, okay, yeah,we want you to change your
(26:23):
sexual appetite and your urges.
Now we're human beings, right?
And we're able to overcomethings that are not good and we
can discipline ourselves.
But some folks, they just don'twant to discipline themselves.
They don't want to not act onthose urges and things of that
nature.
So it's a difficulty.
Now you ask me and I said allthat because you asked me about
(26:46):
what can we do in the schools.
I've advocated and I've talkedto the people who have decision
making authority on thesethings.
It's very simple to me,especially in our school system.
You know, everybody wants toharden our school facilities
because we're so concerned aboutmass shootings and we should be,
but we already have dangerwithin our schools.
(27:06):
I mean we can't pretend likefolks who are going to do harm
to our children don't exist andthey are not there.
They are there.
I was in the military for abouteight years or so.
I was an Intelligence Officer,that means I had the highest
clearances that you couldpossibly get.
And one thing that we had to do,and I'm answering your question
by the way, doesn't sound like Iam, but I am.
(27:28):
One thing that we had to do waswe had to take a polygraph and
lie detector test.
Right.
And we had to take themroutinely, but you also had to
take one in order to get yourclearance.
Right.
I know that the police, somepolice agencies, in order to
hire you, you have to take apolygraph, a lie detector.
Let me ask you a question.
(27:49):
If we know that pedophiles aregoing to be attracted to our
school systems or any otherindustry that deals with kids
all the time, why wouldn't weuse polygraphs and lie detectors
to determine if they have apenchant for pedophilia?
Kristen Schulz (28:12):
That's a good point.
Tony Covington (28:13):
Why wouldn't we do that?
Other agencies, the militaryintelligence, police use
polygraphs all the time.
And I'm not talking about witchhunts, this, that, and the
other.
But you can design polygraphsvery specifically to find out
whether or not a particularperson has an interest in having
relations with a child.
(28:34):
That would go a long way.
And I'm not talking about- I'mbeing practical about it here-
I'm not talking about going backand giving polygraphs to all the
teachers who are already there.
You'd never get that proposalpass the unions I suppose.
Alright.
But anybody, new hires, if I wasin charge, I'd be imposing
(28:54):
polygraphs in if you want to behired as a teacher.
And let me tell you something, Isay this is a person who is
related to a whole bunch ofeducators.
Okay.
All throughout my family folks,you know, my brother's retired,
wife...okay.
They're educators and I'vetalked with them about it and
they're like, they would have noproblem whatsoever taking that
polygraph.
Right.
Because ultimately it's toprotect the children.
(29:18):
And our schools aren't justthere to educate our kids,
because the kids are there andthe kids have to be there, part
of their mandate is to protectour children.
Kristen Schulz (29:28):
Absolutely.
Kandes Carter (29:29):
Yeah.
Tony Covington (29:29):
So to me it's not a whole lot to ask.
I know it will be moneyobviously.
But I think money well spent.
Kristen Schulz (29:35):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (29:36):
Money, well, better spent on that then trying
to put metal detectors andeverything else at the schools
and all that.
I mean those events that happenas tragic as they are, thank
goodness are still not aneveryday occurrence.
When you start adding up thechild abuse that takes place in
our nation's schools compared tothe mass violence that happens,
(30:01):
trust me, they're far morevictims on the child abuse side,
and that's just a matter of arewe going to do something about
it?
Can we do something about it?
I think we can and one of themis to have polygraphs in those
industries where people aretaking care of our kids and have
unfettered access to ourchildren.
Kandes Carter (30:19):
Okay.
Tony Covington (30:21):
So ladies and gentlemen, that's it for the
podcast today.
But let me recap.
First, on physical child abuse-that's using corporal
punishment- please don'tdiscipline your children when
you are angry.
You can get carried away and ifyou get carried away and you
leave marks on your children,you may find yourself in front
(30:44):
of a grand jury here in CharlesCounty because as I've told you,
that's my rule of thumb.
When I look at a case, if thereare marks on a child, the grand
jury is going to at least lookat it.
Can't guarantee what will happenfrom there.
From child sexual abuse, ladiesand gentlemen, please keep that
open line of communication withyour children.
Also, sometimes your kids maynot talk to you, but guess what
(31:06):
will talk to you?
Their devices.
These kids, not just kids,everybody really, lives their
life on their devices nowadays.
If you have some concerns andquestions, look at their
devices.
I'm not one of those folks, oneof those parents who believed in
a whole lot of privacy forchildren because it's my job to
(31:28):
take care of them and I got toknow what's going on in their
life.
And lastly, we can do somethingto help keep predators and
pedophiles away from our kids,especially at our schools, but
any other industry wherechildren have to be and
pedophiles are drawn to.
So seriously from a politicalstandpoint, from a practical
(31:50):
standpoint, if you think thatpolygraphs would be a good
thing, contact the people whomake that decision.
Commissioners, your schoolboard.
Don't be afraid.
I know it sounds trite, butguess what?
You want change?
Tell the people that you'veelected to do things and change
will happen if enough people sayit.
And also lastly, thank you forthe questions that you send in
(32:14):
that help us develop and producethese podcasts.
Without your questions, we don'tknow what you care about.
So we appreciate that and wehope that you keep on sending
those in.
Thank you for listening to theTony Talks Charles County Crime
and please take the time tosubscribe to the podcast.
(32:38):
Covington out.
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