October 29, 2018 • 29 mins
On this episode of Tony Talks Charles County Crime, State's Attorney Tony Covington talks with DV/CSA Advocate Jill Short about her own experience with domestic violence, ways to help people in abusive situations, combating domestic violence, and more.
For more information on domestic violence, please contact the CCSAO or see the Victim/Witness section of our website for helpful links: http://ccsao.us/victim-family-resources/victim-witness-unit/
To Contact Jill Short:
EMAIL: alwaysavoice@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.alwaysavoice.com
FACEBOOK: Always a Voice- Support Group for Survivors of Abuse
Center for Abused Persons 24-hour hotline: 301-645-3336.
SAO Information:
Website: https://bit.ly/2FEFilB
Facebook: https://bit.ly/2QWIPOw
Twitter: https://bit.ly/2FwRaHn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tony Covington (00:15):
Hello, welcome to Tony Talks Charles County
Crime.
I'm Tony Covington, State'sAttorney for Charles County and
the host for this podcast.
You know, October is DomesticViolence Awareness Month and
today we have a very specialguest who's going to talk about
domestic violence and everythingthat needs to be done to try to
combat domestic violence.
(00:36):
Her name is Jill Short.
She is an advocate for domesticviolence victims, she's a
survivor herself, and she'sgoing to share her story with
us.
Most importantly though, she'sgoing to talk to us about what
we need to do to stamp outdomestic violence once and for
all.
So Jill, thank you for beinghere.
It's a pleasure having you here.
Jill Short (00:56):
It's an honor to be here today.
Tony Covington (00:58):
Please tell us about, uh, why it is that you
are so dedicated to trying tocombat domestic violence.
Jill Short (01:07):
Yeah.
So my story is what brings me tohave the voice that I have and
it's a very important thingbecause our story is what makes
us who we are.
It's not our identity.
However, the things that we'vegone through become it, it is
our identity and it's what we dowith it that's important.
(01:27):
The story that I have, I do havedomestic violence in my, in my
past, and that is the reasonbehind what I do.
Tony Covington (01:36):
Well, for those folks out there who may not
understand the definition ofdomestic violence, when we talk
about domestic violence, whatare we talking about?
Jill Short (01:43):
Domestic violence actually means any type of
physical, financial or emotionalabuse that happens within a
home.
Tony Covington (01:54):
Okay.
Jill Short (01:54):
Between a relationship between a man and
woman, a woman and a woman, aman and a man, it doesn't
matter.
Domestic violence happens towomen 85 percent of the time, 15
percent of the time, men.
Tony Covington (02:08):
And how prevalent is- I know as a
prosecutor, and I've been doingthis for about 30 years or so,
and the percentage of domesticviolence cases has really
remained steady over the, thedecades that I've been doing
this.
About 25 percent of the criminalcases that come through this
county, but basicallyeverywhere, are domestic
(02:28):
violence cases.
What about how prevalent is itin society?
Because that's, of course, justthose cases that are charged.
Jill Short (02:34):
It is so much more prevalent in society than we
even whatever know.
It's, I believe, classified whatI call is an invisible
disability.
It's no different than otherdisabilities that people have.
We have obviously people thatare in a wheelchair, we can tell
that they're disabled, but thereare people that have so many- We
all, we have issues going on inour lives and it's invisible.
(02:57):
Our culture makes it to whereit's, it's almost, um, it's just
something that people have ahard time coming out and
explaining to others.
Tony Covington (03:06):
Well, you know, that kind of leads me to where I
wanted to go here.
I mean, before we start talkingabout solutions on this thing,
how do people get into or findthemselves in an abusive
situation?
And then I guess the nextquestion is why do they stay?
Jill Short (03:22):
Yes.
Those are the two main questionsthat I have dealt with.
Those are the main questionsthat actually made me look at my
own life and was the reason whyI did get out of my situation.
I believe that an answer thequestion why and how do people
get into a domestic violencesituation- because it's not
(03:43):
something that a little girl ora young man grows up- that's not
their, their goal in life.
They don't say, someday I wantto end up in a domestic violence
situation.
I believe that people bring somany components, so many factors
with them in their life.
We have our cultural upbringing.
(04:05):
We have our religiousupbringing.
We have things called ACES,which I have come to very much
appreciate.
ACE stands for adverse childhoodexperiences and we all bring
with us our own set of aces.
All of us.
There is not a person alive thatmakes it to adulthood, that has
(04:28):
not had one or more, some typeof childhood adverse experience,
which includes death.
It includes, um, um, abuse fromsiblings.
It, it includes abuse fromparents, um, trauma, parents
losing a job.
All of these things.
And all of these factors, webring them with us and we enter
(04:51):
a relationship.
If we have had childhood abuse,it makes us so much more at risk
to be in a relationship.
If we have low self-esteem, ifwe have other issues that we
haven't dealt with, it puts usat risk.
Tony Covington (05:05):
And I assume that, obviously the modeling, if
you're a child and you seedomestic violence between mom
and dad-
Jill Short (05:12):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (05:13):
I'd assume you'd be more susceptible to ending up
in that situation yourselfbecause you think it's the norm.
Jill Short (05:19):
Absolutely.
And that's what I'm saying.
We're bringing with us thispackage, this, this huge
backpack that we bring to ourlives.
Not only do the victims ofdomestic violence bring that
backpack, but the perpetratorsand the abusers bring it too.
That's where we get into thesituation that we're in.
We're not growing up as, youknow, here we are and we go and
(05:42):
we get married or we have arelationship.
We are putting ourselvestogether with another human
being, making a family orrelationship with somebody that
also has their own bag of ACESand their own culture beliefs,
their own religious beliefs.
And we're making thisrelationship.
And we find ourselves basicallyin a slow cooker because, you
(06:05):
know, so, so answering thisquestion, you know, bringing up
how do we get there?
That's exactly how we get there.
We fall in love, we get into asituation and the reason people
stay it, it all just kind of, itblends in together.
The question of how do we getthere, the question continues,
(06:28):
why do we stay?
In, in finding out that answer.
It kind of helps answer thefirst question as well.
And it's because we aren'tmarried or in a relationship
with the boogie man.
And that is, you know, when wetalk to children about stranger
danger.
That used to be a thing when Iwas a kid.
(06:48):
We had lots of films about, youknow, don't take candy from
strangers.
And we were scared and then welearned over time that what we
needed to be teaching ourchildren was in addition to, we
need to teach them that itdoesn't matter who is touching
you or obviously doing thesethings to you.
(07:09):
It's not okay.
If it's Uncle so and so, if it'sGrandpa so and so.
And so we had to teach childrento look outside the stranger
danger thing.
Tony Covington (07:18):
Well because, and I'll just add this in here.
Um, I've certainly seen it overthe years I've been prosecuting
70, 80 percent of sexualassaults are committed by
someone known to the victim,especially children I'm talking
about now.
Like you said uncle, Grandpa,brother, sister, whatever it is.
(07:38):
Um, so stranger danger has itsplace, but that's a minority of
the abuse that actually takesplace.
Jill Short (07:44):
And that analogy, just how we're talking about the
education we need to give ourchildren to help prevent abuse,
we also need to take that intoour- I'm talking, I'm a woman,
so I'm going to talkpredominantly here about women
that are in abusive situations,but it applies across the board-
but we have to have a different-we have to be educated
(08:08):
differently because we're notmarried to the boogeyman.
We're married to someone who thereason we stay, or we're in a
relationship rather, we staybecause that person isn't always
bad.
They're not always evil.
There is the ugly part.
There's the scary parts.
And normally people that are inthese abusive type
(08:29):
relationships, the abuse isn'tconstant.
It ebbs and it flows and theflow is bad.
But the ebb is great.
And the ebb, every time theabuser comes and has that
swooped down and the, you know,the, everything hits the fan.
Those are scary times.
But then that person comes backaround and part of their
(08:53):
mechanism now is, oh mygoodness, they've done this.
Now they have to gather back andit's a cycle and you get in
there and you get hooked.
Tony Covington (09:03):
And you've lived that.
Jill Short (09:04):
I did, I did.
I hooked- I was hooked intothat.
Now add in religious or culturalbeliefs that were taught.
And that's why people stay.
They see someone, their saying,oh, I want to do better.
They see that person beingreally amazing when they are
amazing.
Then which one is- Who is itthat you're married to or who
(09:26):
are you- Who are you inrelationship with?
Is it the bad guy or, or the orthe good guy.
The really good guy.
So it can become verycomplicated.
It can become very scary.
When people have childrentogether, it makes it even
harder.
Now throw in religious andcultural beliefs.
Um, earlier, Tony, I wasspeaking with you about my
(09:48):
upbringing.
Um, I had been involved in somesexual abuse as a child.
This put me at risk.
I had some issues of stuffinghow I felt.
I believe that it hurt some selfesteem that I had for myself as
well.
I also grew up hearing a storyabout my grandparents, who, my
(10:11):
grandfather was an abusivealcoholic and would beat up my
grandmother every weekend.
But I grew up hearing that mygrandmother was a saint because
she put up with him.
She stood by him.
So this translated out in mylife as good people stick with
(10:32):
it.
Tony Covington (10:32):
Right.
Jill Short (10:33):
You believe in your man, stand by your man, you put
up with it.
Maybe you're afraid leaving isgoing to be worse for your
children.
And I'm just saying like, I, Ijust have to stay here.
That it isn't- it's never okayto put yourself and your
children at risk.
So that, that brings us to awhole new section of this
(10:57):
discussion.
Tony Covington (10:57):
Sure.
Jill Short (10:59):
So that, that basically answers why, why
people stay.
Tony Covington (11:03):
Yeah.
Um, you know, I have, uh, beenrailing for years now, as a
prosecutor, um, and seeingwhat's going on and demanding,
trying to get resources to helppeople.
I've, I've often say that no oneshould ever have to stay in an
abusive relationship becausethey don't have some place to
go, they don't have the financesto get out of there.
(11:25):
There ought to be somethingsomewhere.
And I think government-runbecause, you know, there's some
things that government has todo.
Okay.
I know that privateorganizations factor on the
board of Center for AbusedPersons here in Charles County,
a great organization that triesto help out as best they can.
Um, but the government sometimeshas to step in on those things.
(11:46):
And domestic violence is one ofthose because it is so
prevalent.
People need help and people dieif they don't get the help.
People die not all the time, butguess what, just because
somebody didn't die doesn't meanthey should have to stay there.
Right.
Um, so I've been arguing for,for more resources for shelters
and all of that, especially herein Charles County, but
(12:09):
everywhere.
I mean, there aren't, there,nobody has said that any
shelters don't have a full bedsand is- what am I going to do
with the shelter, you know?
We need the resources out there.
How do you think we should,well, one, what do you think we
need to help us help people getout of these situations and how
do we go about getting theresources, at least I think we
(12:31):
don't have enough of?
Jill Short (12:33):
I believe that awareness, awareness, awareness
is the one of the main steps.
Education.
Um, going out and having enoughpeople out in the field,
speaking to churches, speakingto communities, speaking to
community organizations.
I, I know from experience withme, I went through a period of
(12:55):
time when we were, I was leavingmy abusive situation.
I had a very large family.
I was, fortunately for a time, Iwas in a church denomination
where the people were prettykind.
Um, I lived in some basements.
I was on food stamps.
I did all that.
(13:16):
Um very, very helpful at thetime.
I believe that where, um, thecommunity needs to step up is
bridging the gap between thepeople that are undergoing, the
victims that are undergoingthese domestic violence
(13:37):
situations and the, the goodpeople, and I'm using quotation
marks to say this, you've gotyour, the people over here that
look out at people that aresuffering in domestic violence
situations.
Something has to be done tobridge this gap and people have
to start understanding that itisn't just something that's
(13:59):
happening over there.
It is their sister-in-law, it istheir grandmother, it is their
neighbor, it is the person intheir church.
We think we know them and wedon't because it's either-
you're either going to out withthe real problem and then what
are you going to do?
(14:20):
Or you're going to live it.
You're going to be quiet aboutit.
People only have two choices.
Tony Covington (14:24):
Right.
Jill Short (14:24):
Once they let that cat out of the bag, their nest
is going to come out of thattree.
Tony Covington (14:30):
Right.
Jill Short (14:31):
It's going to get worse and a lot of times people
have no idea how to get fromthat frying pan.
How do they get out?
Tony Covington (14:43):
Well, that's what I, I, I say to people all
the time, you know.
I guess the public who isn'tdirectly involved in this, they
don't have that situation intheir family, they kind of
think, well, this woman has beenin this situation for years and
(unintelligible) because ofthat, she must have some insight
into getting out- where to go,you know, what shelters,
(15:05):
whatever it is.
And I guess by the fact that sheis still there, probably tells
you that she doesn't have aclue.
Um, and for some reason there'sa disconnect with everybody on
that.
So awareness is important onthat.
You know, they've been trying topass some laws here lately
because we've had a number ofhorrendous, um, murder-suicides
(15:26):
here actually in Charles Countythis year.
And uh, you just mentioned itand I'll just say it more
plainly (15:36):
the most volatile timeframe for the abused person
is when they finally do opentheir mouth.
For instance, they go down tothe Commissioner's Office and
get a protective order.
Um, that protective order isabout as powerful as the paper
it's written on.
That's about it.
The guy's either going to adhereto it or he is not.
(15:57):
And if he doesn't, then really,really bad things can happen.
Unfortunately, we had that here.
Um, and uh, uh, it's just verydifficult for folks at that
moment.
I'm trying to put togethersomething, I call it a Domestic
Violence Escape Team type ofsituation where, um, where
(16:17):
there's real volatility that thegovernment agencies that are
responsible to try to helppeople in this- Department of
Social Services, Sheriff'soffice, our office and private
organizations like CAP can bethere and actually have somebody
come out there and say, heylook, you know, you've taken
that first step.
This is a real dangerous time.
Let's get you out of here.
(16:38):
Let's get your kids out of here.
Even if it's just temporary fora, a, a cooling off period, if
you will.
What do you think about that?
Jill Short (16:45):
I think that's incredibly smart and I also know
that, um, raising awarenessamong religious groups that
social services aren't, they'renot the enemy is a big, that's a
big step too.
Tony Covington (16:56):
Oh really?
Jill Short (16:56):
Yes.
There is a huge, um, out thereamong, especially the more
extreme and more conservative orreligious group gets, social
services and the government islooked at as scary because these
people know that their childmight be taken away, their
children could get taken away,so these parents are scared to
speak up.
(17:17):
And I know for me, and here I amon the other side here, I'm an
advocate working.
I've worked now for, for quitesome time on this other side and
it's amazing to realize what theother side from here looks like
and people can actually look atsocial services, policemen.
People can be scared and fearplays such a big role of why
(17:41):
people don't reach out and gethelp.
They are scared.
Like I said, their nest is aboutto come down out of the tree.
They're looking at theirvolatile partner.
What's gonna happen.
They're also looking at what isthe government or what our
social services going to do.
Something has to be done toeducate the public that these
(18:04):
are your friends and thatresources are there.
People do care.
I learned that.
I had Christmas brought to me.
I had Shop with the Cop, I hadpeople paying my electric bill,
I had community outreach...
I had people, I had, I woke upone Christmas morning I had, it
(18:24):
was two years and there weren't,it was just tremendously hard
financially for us because I hadbeen a stay at home mom.
What was I supposed to do if Ileft?
What was I going to do?
And the community- we woke upChristmas morning, there was
presents.
I never did find out who didthat, but it wasn't my church
(18:46):
group.
This was another communitygroup.
But there is a huge ability thatthe community has to reach out
and put in place these.
I think that we need to thinkoutside the box and we need to
come up with, like you said,these teams, people that can
come in and help.
Um, it shouldn't be- peopleshouldn't have to be alone when
(19:07):
they go through this.
Tony Covington (19:09):
You're absolutely right about that.
And the part of the, I don'twant to call it a psychosis, but
part of what the abuser mindgames that they place on the
abused is you are alone.
I mean, part of it is theyisolate the person in the first
place from friends and family-you don't have any place to go.
(19:29):
You're dumb.
You can't get a job.
You're not going to be able tosupport yourself and the kids
and on and on and on, which ofcourse contributes to
everything.
And I think that's part of theawareness that you're talking
about, that our community needsto understand that, uh, this
just doesn't happen.
There are reasons like you saythe baggage, the ACES and all
that, but also it's a concertedeffort by the abuser.
(19:52):
He don't want things to change.
He wants things to stay thesame.
Um, and uh, that justcontributes to people staying
there for longer periods oftime.
And so, you know, um, I am oldenough to, to understand that,
uh, there are plenty of peoplein this world who still say
(20:13):
whatever goes on behind closeddoors, stays there.
I think that's lessening andlessening because we see all
the, just because of the natureof our, of our world now because
everybody knows everybody else'sbusiness with social media and
everything else.
So quite frankly, that's a goodthing that people do care about
what's going on in somebodyelse's house.
The hard part is getting peopleto take a step and help out.
Jill Short (20:35):
Yes, yes.
And you know, today the media iskind of blowing it up a little
bit, even more.
It's becoming almost a, youknow, we're rolling our eyes now
when we hear the word domesticviolence because it's like my
gosh, now what?
You know what else?
But we just need to keepchipping away.
I believe that, um, coming inwith a concerted efforts to help
(20:58):
victims unlearn what they'velearned.
I believe, you know, I see somany jump right back into ugly
relationships.
They get out of one and they goright back into the other.
And um, the abusers themselves,the people that are abusing in
these relationships, they needhelp.
(21:19):
There's so much that can bedone.
And I believe that that thecommunity can do so much if we
could just get rid of the stigmaand if we can just insert
ourselves into this as caringcitizens, there's so much more
that we can do.
The laws, there has been so muchchange in America.
(21:43):
Back last year in January, I wasable to go and be part of a, uh,
domestic violence and childsexual abuse awareness, uh,
education program in the countryof Cyprus, which is a very small
country.
Until recently they've hadnothing in place, nothing.
So I was the first person everto speak publicly about abuse of
(22:09):
the sexual nature that goes onin homes or in with children.
It aired on several channelsnationally and they in three or
four years have gone from havingnothing to having more, but
they're small, you know, they'resmall.
In America we have 50 states.
All the laws are differentthroughout the states, but if we
(22:33):
look at where we've come, where,how far we've come in the past,
just since I was a child.
You know, when I went throughthe things as a child that I
went through, I had, we didn'ttalk about it.
There was nothing, there wasnothing.
I never got help.
The sibling that abused me nevergot help.
He went on to abuse his ownchildren and is still in prison
(22:56):
today.
I ended up marrying someone whohad been abused as a child.
He never got help.
We never got help.
We were in this horriblerelationship.
And like I said, he wasn't theboogeyman.
This person had great qualitiesand at this point has gone on-
I'm not with him anymore- buthas gone on to be a wonderful,
(23:17):
you know, he's gone onto to helptry to better his own life.
I have gone on.
There are things, if we couldlook at this as a proactive
wellness approach that ifthrough, through positive help
and through, um, deciding thatwe want to live better.
(23:37):
That that's not our identity.
I am not a victim.
I am a victor that had somereally bad things happen to me.
And it's a choice.
It's a daily choice.
Tony Covington (23:48):
So Jill, along with some of your projects that
you have out there, I certainlyhave heard and understand that
you're getting into our schools,talking to youngsters about
domestic violence and datingviolence, I suppose.
Tell us about that.
Jill Short (24:01):
Yes.
This is something so near anddear to my heart.
I feel like, you know- Earlierin our discussion here, we spoke
about how do we get here, how dopeople end up in domestic
violence relationships, and itstarts a lot of times, these
young people today in middleschool and high school are
already, they can already saythat they've experienced that in
(24:21):
their own dating relationships.
Tony Covington (24:22):
Wow.
Jill Short (24:23):
In finding this out, especially in our county and St.
Mary's county this past yearwith the terrible tragedy with
the school shooting thatinvolved, um, dating domestic
violence.
It is a huge goal of mine as acommunity member, as an
advocate, but also as a partnerwith the Center for Abused
(24:45):
Persons to get into everyschool, middle school and high
school in, in St.
Charles, hopefully St.
Mary's, Prince George's Countyand bring to mind to these
children that what they're,these relationships that they're
having with these young men andwomen, that is what's setting
(25:07):
the stage.
And already when I go in and Ispeak in a high school, it is
crazy.
The flood afterwards of kidsthat are 13, 14, 15 years old
saying they've already been in adating relationship that turned
bad.
Tony Covington (25:25):
Wow.
Jill Short (25:25):
They've undergone physical abuse, they've
undergone emotional abusealready at that age.
And we've got- That's one thingthat we've got to do different
in our county, in our community,is raise the bar of what we're
teaching our children in ourschools.
We're scared to use the worddomestic violence in schools.
(25:46):
Okay, let's come in and let'ssay it differently.
Let's talk about healthyrelationships, but in doing so,
we must raise awareness with ourchildren that they're getting
into relationships and they'rejust setting the stage for more.
Tony Covington (26:01):
Well, that goes back to what you said earlier as
well.
You didn't use this phrase, butI use it all the time:
generational.
Jill Short (26:09):
Yeah.
Tony Covington (26:09):
Because people are being taught things, so
these kids were 13, 14, 15 yearsold.
They're seeing it in their home,the abuser, and of course, and
perhaps the victim as well, butalso our culture is so violent
now.
Not that it hasn't always beenviolent, but there's a lot of
violence out there and it'sreadily available on all the
(26:30):
social media and everything thatyou have and when, when I was
coming up, you didn't have allthat stuff.
And sure the world was a violentplace, but you didn't
necessarily see it every singleday, every minute of the day, or
had the potential seeing itbecause you can get on the
Internet and whatever it is.
Um, so that's great that you'rereaching out to the kids.
Um, we try to get into the kidsas well.
(26:51):
We call it our Think About Itcampaign.
We talk about that, but we talkabout successful living.
We really don't touch on thedomestic violence too much, um,
because it's just a little bit-Uh, it's, you know, it's a
whole, it's a whole category foritself, but it's also, you know,
it's a whole presentation.
So we don't really get into itthat much.
But I'm glad you're out theretrying to impact the kids
(27:14):
because, let me just give youone stat: They did a study a
long time ago about guys ondeath row, every single one of
them had been abused orwitnessed violence in their home
as children.
And every- 100 percent see thatviolence is a way to try to
solve problems and of courseit's not.
You know that I'm with you and Iam happy that you are a victor
(27:36):
and I'm very happy that you areout there fighting so hard to
lift a whole lot of other folkswho are being victimized into
survivorship and being victorsof their own.
Well, I'm going to be fightingwith you.
We're going to try to, I'vebeen, I've said many, many
times, you know, uh, somebodymight put their hands on you one
time, but that should be it.
Jill Short (27:55):
Right.
Tony Covington (27:55):
Because you should be out of there and you
should have the resources fromsomewhere somehow to get out of
there and, and deal with it.
So we're going to keep fightingfor that.
I certainly am.
And again, I want to thank youfor, for being here on our
podcast today.
This was Jill Short, ladies andgentleman, Domestic Violence
Advocate on the board of theCenter for Abused Persons here
and a great citizen trying tohelp a whole lot of people and
(28:17):
we appreciate you.
Jill Short (28:18):
Thank you very much.
Tony Covington (28:21):
And I want to thank all of you for listening
today.
There's a lot of information ondomestic violence, we appreciate
Jill Short.
If you need to contact Ms.
Short, you can contact her ather website, which is
alwaysavoice.com.
Also, for the Center for AbusedPersons, if you have a crisis
anytime, 24-7, you can calltheir crisis hotline
(28:45):
301-645-3336.
If you're in a situation or youknow somebody who's in a
situation, please make sure theyhave that crisis hotline number.
And lastly, please subscribe toour podcast.
Be on the lookout for them.
We're going to be coming out, Idon't know, once a month or so
(29:05):
on various topics, all having todo with the law and criminal
justice here in Charles.
Again, thank you for listening.
It's Tony Covington.
See you next time.
Hello, welcome to Tony Talks Charles County
Crime.
I'm Tony Covington, State'sAttorney for Charles County and
the host for this podcast.
You know, October is DomesticViolence Awareness Month and
today we have a very specialguest who's going to talk about
domestic violence and everythingthat needs to be done to try to
combat domestic violence.
(00:36):
Her name is Jill Short.
She is an advocate for domesticviolence victims, she's a
survivor herself, and she'sgoing to share her story with
us.
Most importantly though, she'sgoing to talk to us about what
we need to do to stamp outdomestic violence once and for
all.
So Jill, thank you for beinghere.
It's a pleasure having you here.
Jill Short (00:56):
It's an honor to be here today.
Tony Covington (00:58):
Please tell us about, uh, why it is that you
are so dedicated to trying tocombat domestic violence.
Jill Short (01:07):
Yeah.
So my story is what brings me tohave the voice that I have and
it's a very important thingbecause our story is what makes
us who we are.
It's not our identity.
However, the things that we'vegone through become it, it is
our identity and it's what we dowith it that's important.
(01:27):
The story that I have, I do havedomestic violence in my, in my
past, and that is the reasonbehind what I do.
Tony Covington (01:36):
Well, for those folks out there who may not
understand the definition ofdomestic violence, when we talk
about domestic violence, whatare we talking about?
Jill Short (01:43):
Domestic violence actually means any type of
physical, financial or emotionalabuse that happens within a
home.
Tony Covington (01:54):
Okay.
Jill Short (01:54):
Between a relationship between a man and
woman, a woman and a woman, aman and a man, it doesn't
matter.
Domestic violence happens towomen 85 percent of the time, 15
percent of the time, men.
Tony Covington (02:08):
And how prevalent is- I know as a
prosecutor, and I've been doingthis for about 30 years or so,
and the percentage of domesticviolence cases has really
remained steady over the, thedecades that I've been doing
this.
About 25 percent of the criminalcases that come through this
county, but basicallyeverywhere, are domestic
(02:28):
violence cases.
What about how prevalent is itin society?
Because that's, of course, justthose cases that are charged.
Jill Short (02:34):
It is so much more prevalent in society than we
even whatever know.
It's, I believe, classified whatI call is an invisible
disability.
It's no different than otherdisabilities that people have.
We have obviously people thatare in a wheelchair, we can tell
that they're disabled, but thereare people that have so many- We
all, we have issues going on inour lives and it's invisible.
(02:57):
Our culture makes it to whereit's, it's almost, um, it's just
something that people have ahard time coming out and
explaining to others.
Tony Covington (03:06):
Well, you know, that kind of leads me to where I
wanted to go here.
I mean, before we start talkingabout solutions on this thing,
how do people get into or findthemselves in an abusive
situation?
And then I guess the nextquestion is why do they stay?
Jill Short (03:22):
Yes.
Those are the two main questionsthat I have dealt with.
Those are the main questionsthat actually made me look at my
own life and was the reason whyI did get out of my situation.
I believe that an answer thequestion why and how do people
get into a domestic violencesituation- because it's not
(03:43):
something that a little girl ora young man grows up- that's not
their, their goal in life.
They don't say, someday I wantto end up in a domestic violence
situation.
I believe that people bring somany components, so many factors
with them in their life.
We have our cultural upbringing.
(04:05):
We have our religiousupbringing.
We have things called ACES,which I have come to very much
appreciate.
ACE stands for adverse childhoodexperiences and we all bring
with us our own set of aces.
All of us.
There is not a person alive thatmakes it to adulthood, that has
(04:28):
not had one or more, some typeof childhood adverse experience,
which includes death.
It includes, um, um, abuse fromsiblings.
It, it includes abuse fromparents, um, trauma, parents
losing a job.
All of these things.
And all of these factors, webring them with us and we enter
(04:51):
a relationship.
If we have had childhood abuse,it makes us so much more at risk
to be in a relationship.
If we have low self-esteem, ifwe have other issues that we
haven't dealt with, it puts usat risk.
Tony Covington (05:05):
And I assume that, obviously the modeling, if
you're a child and you seedomestic violence between mom
and dad-
Jill Short (05:12):
Absolutely.
Tony Covington (05:13):
I'd assume you'd be more susceptible to ending up
in that situation yourselfbecause you think it's the norm.
Jill Short (05:19):
Absolutely.
And that's what I'm saying.
We're bringing with us thispackage, this, this huge
backpack that we bring to ourlives.
Not only do the victims ofdomestic violence bring that
backpack, but the perpetratorsand the abusers bring it too.
That's where we get into thesituation that we're in.
We're not growing up as, youknow, here we are and we go and
(05:42):
we get married or we have arelationship.
We are putting ourselvestogether with another human
being, making a family orrelationship with somebody that
also has their own bag of ACESand their own culture beliefs,
their own religious beliefs.
And we're making thisrelationship.
And we find ourselves basicallyin a slow cooker because, you
(06:05):
know, so, so answering thisquestion, you know, bringing up
how do we get there?
That's exactly how we get there.
We fall in love, we get into asituation and the reason people
stay it, it all just kind of, itblends in together.
The question of how do we getthere, the question continues,
(06:28):
why do we stay?
In, in finding out that answer.
It kind of helps answer thefirst question as well.
And it's because we aren'tmarried or in a relationship
with the boogie man.
And that is, you know, when wetalk to children about stranger
danger.
That used to be a thing when Iwas a kid.
(06:48):
We had lots of films about, youknow, don't take candy from
strangers.
And we were scared and then welearned over time that what we
needed to be teaching ourchildren was in addition to, we
need to teach them that itdoesn't matter who is touching
you or obviously doing thesethings to you.
(07:09):
It's not okay.
If it's Uncle so and so, if it'sGrandpa so and so.
And so we had to teach childrento look outside the stranger
danger thing.
Tony Covington (07:18):
Well because, and I'll just add this in here.
Um, I've certainly seen it overthe years I've been prosecuting
70, 80 percent of sexualassaults are committed by
someone known to the victim,especially children I'm talking
about now.
Like you said uncle, Grandpa,brother, sister, whatever it is.
(07:38):
Um, so stranger danger has itsplace, but that's a minority of
the abuse that actually takesplace.
Jill Short (07:44):
And that analogy, just how we're talking about the
education we need to give ourchildren to help prevent abuse,
we also need to take that intoour- I'm talking, I'm a woman,
so I'm going to talkpredominantly here about women
that are in abusive situations,but it applies across the board-
but we have to have a different-we have to be educated
(08:08):
differently because we're notmarried to the boogeyman.
We're married to someone who thereason we stay, or we're in a
relationship rather, we staybecause that person isn't always
bad.
They're not always evil.
There is the ugly part.
There's the scary parts.
And normally people that are inthese abusive type
(08:29):
relationships, the abuse isn'tconstant.
It ebbs and it flows and theflow is bad.
But the ebb is great.
And the ebb, every time theabuser comes and has that
swooped down and the, you know,the, everything hits the fan.
Those are scary times.
But then that person comes backaround and part of their
(08:53):
mechanism now is, oh mygoodness, they've done this.
Now they have to gather back andit's a cycle and you get in
there and you get hooked.
Tony Covington (09:03):
And you've lived that.
Jill Short (09:04):
I did, I did.
I hooked- I was hooked intothat.
Now add in religious or culturalbeliefs that were taught.
And that's why people stay.
They see someone, their saying,oh, I want to do better.
They see that person beingreally amazing when they are
amazing.
Then which one is- Who is itthat you're married to or who
(09:26):
are you- Who are you inrelationship with?
Is it the bad guy or, or the orthe good guy.
The really good guy.
So it can become verycomplicated.
It can become very scary.
When people have childrentogether, it makes it even
harder.
Now throw in religious andcultural beliefs.
Um, earlier, Tony, I wasspeaking with you about my
(09:48):
upbringing.
Um, I had been involved in somesexual abuse as a child.
This put me at risk.
I had some issues of stuffinghow I felt.
I believe that it hurt some selfesteem that I had for myself as
well.
I also grew up hearing a storyabout my grandparents, who, my
(10:11):
grandfather was an abusivealcoholic and would beat up my
grandmother every weekend.
But I grew up hearing that mygrandmother was a saint because
she put up with him.
She stood by him.
So this translated out in mylife as good people stick with
(10:32):
it.
Tony Covington (10:32):
Right.
Jill Short (10:33):
You believe in your man, stand by your man, you put
up with it.
Maybe you're afraid leaving isgoing to be worse for your
children.
And I'm just saying like, I, Ijust have to stay here.
That it isn't- it's never okayto put yourself and your
children at risk.
So that, that brings us to awhole new section of this
(10:57):
discussion.
Tony Covington (10:57):
Sure.
Jill Short (10:59):
So that, that basically answers why, why
people stay.
Tony Covington (11:03):
Yeah.
Um, you know, I have, uh, beenrailing for years now, as a
prosecutor, um, and seeingwhat's going on and demanding,
trying to get resources to helppeople.
I've, I've often say that no oneshould ever have to stay in an
abusive relationship becausethey don't have some place to
go, they don't have the financesto get out of there.
(11:25):
There ought to be somethingsomewhere.
And I think government-runbecause, you know, there's some
things that government has todo.
Okay.
I know that privateorganizations factor on the
board of Center for AbusedPersons here in Charles County,
a great organization that triesto help out as best they can.
Um, but the government sometimeshas to step in on those things.
(11:46):
And domestic violence is one ofthose because it is so
prevalent.
People need help and people dieif they don't get the help.
People die not all the time, butguess what, just because
somebody didn't die doesn't meanthey should have to stay there.
Right.
Um, so I've been arguing for,for more resources for shelters
and all of that, especially herein Charles County, but
(12:09):
everywhere.
I mean, there aren't, there,nobody has said that any
shelters don't have a full bedsand is- what am I going to do
with the shelter, you know?
We need the resources out there.
How do you think we should,well, one, what do you think we
need to help us help people getout of these situations and how
do we go about getting theresources, at least I think we
(12:31):
don't have enough of?
Jill Short (12:33):
I believe that awareness, awareness, awareness
is the one of the main steps.
Education.
Um, going out and having enoughpeople out in the field,
speaking to churches, speakingto communities, speaking to
community organizations.
I, I know from experience withme, I went through a period of
(12:55):
time when we were, I was leavingmy abusive situation.
I had a very large family.
I was, fortunately for a time, Iwas in a church denomination
where the people were prettykind.
Um, I lived in some basements.
I was on food stamps.
I did all that.
(13:16):
Um very, very helpful at thetime.
I believe that where, um, thecommunity needs to step up is
bridging the gap between thepeople that are undergoing, the
victims that are undergoingthese domestic violence
(13:37):
situations and the, the goodpeople, and I'm using quotation
marks to say this, you've gotyour, the people over here that
look out at people that aresuffering in domestic violence
situations.
Something has to be done tobridge this gap and people have
to start understanding that itisn't just something that's
(13:59):
happening over there.
It is their sister-in-law, it istheir grandmother, it is their
neighbor, it is the person intheir church.
We think we know them and wedon't because it's either-
you're either going to out withthe real problem and then what
are you going to do?
(14:20):
Or you're going to live it.
You're going to be quiet aboutit.
People only have two choices.
Tony Covington (14:24):
Right.
Jill Short (14:24):
Once they let that cat out of the bag, their nest
is going to come out of thattree.
Tony Covington (14:30):
Right.
Jill Short (14:31):
It's going to get worse and a lot of times people
have no idea how to get fromthat frying pan.
How do they get out?
Tony Covington (14:43):
Well, that's what I, I, I say to people all
the time, you know.
I guess the public who isn'tdirectly involved in this, they
don't have that situation intheir family, they kind of
think, well, this woman has beenin this situation for years and
(unintelligible) because ofthat, she must have some insight
into getting out- where to go,you know, what shelters,
(15:05):
whatever it is.
And I guess by the fact that sheis still there, probably tells
you that she doesn't have aclue.
Um, and for some reason there'sa disconnect with everybody on
that.
So awareness is important onthat.
You know, they've been trying topass some laws here lately
because we've had a number ofhorrendous, um, murder-suicides
(15:26):
here actually in Charles Countythis year.
And uh, you just mentioned itand I'll just say it more
plainly (15:36):
the most volatile timeframe for the abused person
is when they finally do opentheir mouth.
For instance, they go down tothe Commissioner's Office and
get a protective order.
Um, that protective order isabout as powerful as the paper
it's written on.
That's about it.
The guy's either going to adhereto it or he is not.
(15:57):
And if he doesn't, then really,really bad things can happen.
Unfortunately, we had that here.
Um, and uh, uh, it's just verydifficult for folks at that
moment.
I'm trying to put togethersomething, I call it a Domestic
Violence Escape Team type ofsituation where, um, where
(16:17):
there's real volatility that thegovernment agencies that are
responsible to try to helppeople in this- Department of
Social Services, Sheriff'soffice, our office and private
organizations like CAP can bethere and actually have somebody
come out there and say, heylook, you know, you've taken
that first step.
This is a real dangerous time.
Let's get you out of here.
(16:38):
Let's get your kids out of here.
Even if it's just temporary fora, a, a cooling off period, if
you will.
What do you think about that?
Jill Short (16:45):
I think that's incredibly smart and I also know
that, um, raising awarenessamong religious groups that
social services aren't, they'renot the enemy is a big, that's a
big step too.
Tony Covington (16:56):
Oh really?
Jill Short (16:56):
Yes.
There is a huge, um, out thereamong, especially the more
extreme and more conservative orreligious group gets, social
services and the government islooked at as scary because these
people know that their childmight be taken away, their
children could get taken away,so these parents are scared to
speak up.
(17:17):
And I know for me, and here I amon the other side here, I'm an
advocate working.
I've worked now for, for quitesome time on this other side and
it's amazing to realize what theother side from here looks like
and people can actually look atsocial services, policemen.
People can be scared and fearplays such a big role of why
(17:41):
people don't reach out and gethelp.
They are scared.
Like I said, their nest is aboutto come down out of the tree.
They're looking at theirvolatile partner.
What's gonna happen.
They're also looking at what isthe government or what our
social services going to do.
Something has to be done toeducate the public that these
(18:04):
are your friends and thatresources are there.
People do care.
I learned that.
I had Christmas brought to me.
I had Shop with the Cop, I hadpeople paying my electric bill,
I had community outreach...
I had people, I had, I woke upone Christmas morning I had, it
(18:24):
was two years and there weren't,it was just tremendously hard
financially for us because I hadbeen a stay at home mom.
What was I supposed to do if Ileft?
What was I going to do?
And the community- we woke upChristmas morning, there was
presents.
I never did find out who didthat, but it wasn't my church
(18:46):
group.
This was another communitygroup.
But there is a huge ability thatthe community has to reach out
and put in place these.
I think that we need to thinkoutside the box and we need to
come up with, like you said,these teams, people that can
come in and help.
Um, it shouldn't be- peopleshouldn't have to be alone when
(19:07):
they go through this.
Tony Covington (19:09):
You're absolutely right about that.
And the part of the, I don'twant to call it a psychosis, but
part of what the abuser mindgames that they place on the
abused is you are alone.
I mean, part of it is theyisolate the person in the first
place from friends and family-you don't have any place to go.
(19:29):
You're dumb.
You can't get a job.
You're not going to be able tosupport yourself and the kids
and on and on and on, which ofcourse contributes to
everything.
And I think that's part of theawareness that you're talking
about, that our community needsto understand that, uh, this
just doesn't happen.
There are reasons like you saythe baggage, the ACES and all
that, but also it's a concertedeffort by the abuser.
(19:52):
He don't want things to change.
He wants things to stay thesame.
Um, and uh, that justcontributes to people staying
there for longer periods oftime.
And so, you know, um, I am oldenough to, to understand that,
uh, there are plenty of peoplein this world who still say
(20:13):
whatever goes on behind closeddoors, stays there.
I think that's lessening andlessening because we see all
the, just because of the natureof our, of our world now because
everybody knows everybody else'sbusiness with social media and
everything else.
So quite frankly, that's a goodthing that people do care about
what's going on in somebodyelse's house.
The hard part is getting peopleto take a step and help out.
Jill Short (20:35):
Yes, yes.
And you know, today the media iskind of blowing it up a little
bit, even more.
It's becoming almost a, youknow, we're rolling our eyes now
when we hear the word domesticviolence because it's like my
gosh, now what?
You know what else?
But we just need to keepchipping away.
I believe that, um, coming inwith a concerted efforts to help
(20:58):
victims unlearn what they'velearned.
I believe, you know, I see somany jump right back into ugly
relationships.
They get out of one and they goright back into the other.
And um, the abusers themselves,the people that are abusing in
these relationships, they needhelp.
(21:19):
There's so much that can bedone.
And I believe that that thecommunity can do so much if we
could just get rid of the stigmaand if we can just insert
ourselves into this as caringcitizens, there's so much more
that we can do.
The laws, there has been so muchchange in America.
(21:43):
Back last year in January, I wasable to go and be part of a, uh,
domestic violence and childsexual abuse awareness, uh,
education program in the countryof Cyprus, which is a very small
country.
Until recently they've hadnothing in place, nothing.
So I was the first person everto speak publicly about abuse of
(22:09):
the sexual nature that goes onin homes or in with children.
It aired on several channelsnationally and they in three or
four years have gone from havingnothing to having more, but
they're small, you know, they'resmall.
In America we have 50 states.
All the laws are differentthroughout the states, but if we
(22:33):
look at where we've come, where,how far we've come in the past,
just since I was a child.
You know, when I went throughthe things as a child that I
went through, I had, we didn'ttalk about it.
There was nothing, there wasnothing.
I never got help.
The sibling that abused me nevergot help.
He went on to abuse his ownchildren and is still in prison
(22:56):
today.
I ended up marrying someone whohad been abused as a child.
He never got help.
We never got help.
We were in this horriblerelationship.
And like I said, he wasn't theboogeyman.
This person had great qualitiesand at this point has gone on-
I'm not with him anymore- buthas gone on to be a wonderful,
(23:17):
you know, he's gone onto to helptry to better his own life.
I have gone on.
There are things, if we couldlook at this as a proactive
wellness approach that ifthrough, through positive help
and through, um, deciding thatwe want to live better.
(23:37):
That that's not our identity.
I am not a victim.
I am a victor that had somereally bad things happen to me.
And it's a choice.
It's a daily choice.
Tony Covington (23:48):
So Jill, along with some of your projects that
you have out there, I certainlyhave heard and understand that
you're getting into our schools,talking to youngsters about
domestic violence and datingviolence, I suppose.
Tell us about that.
Jill Short (24:01):
Yes.
This is something so near anddear to my heart.
I feel like, you know- Earlierin our discussion here, we spoke
about how do we get here, how dopeople end up in domestic
violence relationships, and itstarts a lot of times, these
young people today in middleschool and high school are
already, they can already saythat they've experienced that in
(24:21):
their own dating relationships.
Tony Covington (24:22):
Wow.
Jill Short (24:23):
In finding this out, especially in our county and St.
Mary's county this past yearwith the terrible tragedy with
the school shooting thatinvolved, um, dating domestic
violence.
It is a huge goal of mine as acommunity member, as an
advocate, but also as a partnerwith the Center for Abused
(24:45):
Persons to get into everyschool, middle school and high
school in, in St.
Charles, hopefully St.
Mary's, Prince George's Countyand bring to mind to these
children that what they're,these relationships that they're
having with these young men andwomen, that is what's setting
(25:07):
the stage.
And already when I go in and Ispeak in a high school, it is
crazy.
The flood afterwards of kidsthat are 13, 14, 15 years old
saying they've already been in adating relationship that turned
bad.
Tony Covington (25:25):
Wow.
Jill Short (25:25):
They've undergone physical abuse, they've
undergone emotional abusealready at that age.
And we've got- That's one thingthat we've got to do different
in our county, in our community,is raise the bar of what we're
teaching our children in ourschools.
We're scared to use the worddomestic violence in schools.
(25:46):
Okay, let's come in and let'ssay it differently.
Let's talk about healthyrelationships, but in doing so,
we must raise awareness with ourchildren that they're getting
into relationships and they'rejust setting the stage for more.
Tony Covington (26:01):
Well, that goes back to what you said earlier as
well.
You didn't use this phrase, butI use it all the time:
generational.
Jill Short (26:09):
Yeah.
Tony Covington (26:09):
Because people are being taught things, so
these kids were 13, 14, 15 yearsold.
They're seeing it in their home,the abuser, and of course, and
perhaps the victim as well, butalso our culture is so violent
now.
Not that it hasn't always beenviolent, but there's a lot of
violence out there and it'sreadily available on all the
(26:30):
social media and everything thatyou have and when, when I was
coming up, you didn't have allthat stuff.
And sure the world was a violentplace, but you didn't
necessarily see it every singleday, every minute of the day, or
had the potential seeing itbecause you can get on the
Internet and whatever it is.
Um, so that's great that you'rereaching out to the kids.
Um, we try to get into the kidsas well.
(26:51):
We call it our Think About Itcampaign.
We talk about that, but we talkabout successful living.
We really don't touch on thedomestic violence too much, um,
because it's just a little bit-Uh, it's, you know, it's a
whole, it's a whole category foritself, but it's also, you know,
it's a whole presentation.
So we don't really get into itthat much.
But I'm glad you're out theretrying to impact the kids
(27:14):
because, let me just give youone stat: They did a study a
long time ago about guys ondeath row, every single one of
them had been abused orwitnessed violence in their home
as children.
And every- 100 percent see thatviolence is a way to try to
solve problems and of courseit's not.
You know that I'm with you and Iam happy that you are a victor
(27:36):
and I'm very happy that you areout there fighting so hard to
lift a whole lot of other folkswho are being victimized into
survivorship and being victorsof their own.
Well, I'm going to be fightingwith you.
We're going to try to, I'vebeen, I've said many, many
times, you know, uh, somebodymight put their hands on you one
time, but that should be it.
Jill Short (27:55):
Right.
Tony Covington (27:55):
Because you should be out of there and you
should have the resources fromsomewhere somehow to get out of
there and, and deal with it.
So we're going to keep fightingfor that.
I certainly am.
And again, I want to thank youfor, for being here on our
podcast today.
This was Jill Short, ladies andgentleman, Domestic Violence
Advocate on the board of theCenter for Abused Persons here
and a great citizen trying tohelp a whole lot of people and
(28:17):
we appreciate you.
Jill Short (28:18):
Thank you very much.
Tony Covington (28:21):
And I want to thank all of you for listening
today.
There's a lot of information ondomestic violence, we appreciate
Jill Short.
If you need to contact Ms.
Short, you can contact her ather website, which is
alwaysavoice.com.
Also, for the Center for AbusedPersons, if you have a crisis
anytime, 24-7, you can calltheir crisis hotline
(28:45):
301-645-3336.
If you're in a situation or youknow somebody who's in a
situation, please make sure theyhave that crisis hotline number.
And lastly, please subscribe toour podcast.
Be on the lookout for them.
We're going to be coming out, Idon't know, once a month or so
(29:05):
on various topics, all having todo with the law and criminal
justice here in Charles.
Again, thank you for listening.
It's Tony Covington.
See you next time.
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