Growth Through Niche Expertise: Strategies for Building a Referable Advisory Business With Brian Haney (Ep. 485)

Question: How can you effectively build a niche-focused advisor brand that positions you as a thought leader and drives organic business growth? Answer: You start with this podcast episode. 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the top advisor marketing podcast brought
to you by Proudmouth.
I'm your host, Matt Halloran.
Being your own loud is not new to
marketing, but the mindset, strategies, and resources to
help you get there are evolving faster than
this industry is keeping up. It is time
to find a new perspective on what works,
why,

(00:21):
and how to move your business forward.
Listen as I interview guests to help you
learn from them how to be your own
Loud. Let's
get to the show.
Hello, and welcome to another Top Advisor Marketing
podcast. I'm your host, Matt Halloran.
So I met
our guest today at MDRT.

(00:42):
We were on a panel together, which I
feel wildly honored that I was even asked
to moderate the 3 people who were on
stage.
But Brian had said so many fascinating things
that
a couple of them had
audible gasps in the audience that was, like,
okay, this dude's gotta be on the show
because we're gonna be talking about things that
we really haven't really covered on the show

(01:04):
before. So Brian Haney is our guest today.
Brian, as I welcome you on, can you
tell everybody a little bit about your practice
and maybe just a little bit about why
we were on stage together, and then we're
gonna dive into our big question?
Yeah. Absolutely. And, Matt, again, I had a
great time in Vancouver with you. That was,
I think, from what they were telling us,
one of the best attended sessions of the

(01:26):
entire conference,
and it was just an awesome experience. Glad
we could do that together.
The really fast version of our practice and
the one that I think hopefully the audience
will resonate with the most
is
I run a kind of a full service
insurance and benefits
practice. It's built around, so employee benefits, property

(01:49):
and casualty. Yes, we do wealth management, investment
management, individual insurance, that kind of stuff, but
that's a very small subset of the primary
elements of our practice, fully independent,
and it's a family owned practice. So I
work with my father and my younger brother.
We are the 3 principal members, principal producers,
all that kind of stuff.

(02:10):
What is really unique about us
is that
probably
80 plus percent of our clients are in
one market, and that is the association
marketplace.
And I think a lot of people are
familiar with what an association is. If you're
a member of NAFA, FPA, what have you,
industry
organisations that represent
either the practitioners

(02:31):
or sometimes you'll have trade organisations.
But we have specialized in that marketplace.
It predates even me because my father, when
he got into the business himself,
started out as a claims adjuster, but as
he was advancing himself really fell into associations
and then
decided that's where he was gonna stay.

(02:52):
So that's what we did now as a
family.
All three of us have a professional designation
that's pretty important. It's
certified
association
executive, CAE. So we don't
want just to have the industry acknowledge that
we're really good at insurance for associations.
It was really important that we share as

(03:14):
significant
of an understanding
of our market and what a day in
their life is actually like,
so that way we could really deliver
better advice, better value, and frankly, be better
professionals.
So that that's that was not as short
of an answer for that, but that's our
story, and we're sticking to it. Yeah. That's
exactly what I want. That's the foundation that

(03:36):
everything else that I'm gonna talk to you
today
about is gonna be built on, which
so on stage, one of the things that
you had talked about was, yes, this is
a multifamily,
multigenerational
family focus.
It did take a while.
Right? So for you guys to be recognized
as the organization
that really provides services to these association executives

(03:58):
and these associations,
can you give our audience a realistic
time frame on how long you guys, whether
that's
a hunch or quantifiable with data, how long
it took you to really be known? Because
you're known we're gonna get to that in
a second, but you're known as that guy
or that firm for that niche. How long
did that take?

(04:19):
Yeah. I'm gonna answer it in 2 parts.
So I can't I have to start with
my dad because he planted the flag, and
if anybody wants to know
what it's like to become the gold standard,
he figured it out, he set that peg,
and he'll tell you.
There was intent behind it, but his heart
and his approach was really just

(04:39):
always about
really just caring for the market that he
had these relationships with and really wanting to
understand
them, not understand what he needed to do
for them. And so the genesis of that,
so within a s so ASAE is where
we spend most of our time. ASAE stands
for American Society of Association Executives. Because in

(05:00):
America, there's an association for associations. Right? Because
you gotta have that in America.
This is the sandbox we play in.
Within that community,
there is a group of
thought leaders called the ASAE
Fellows.
And it's a very small group,
highly visible leaders

(05:21):
that it's an invite only,
usually year over year, there's anywhere from maybe
4 to 6
that get to be invited to become Fellows.
And my father was one of the first
non
association people to be invited to become a
fellow, so they broke the mold with him,
and that was back in 1992. And I'm
not going to tell you how old I

(05:42):
was then, but let's just say I was
not a practitioner at that stage in my
life.
That is a pretty seminal moment
where this industry that you're spending all this
time in is now recognizing
that, oh my gosh, not only do we
think you're a thought leader,
but we want you to be in this
really small community of leaders because of the

(06:04):
value that you provide to our community, not
because you're this
awesome insurance or financial services person that we
like a lot, which was also true.
But that was a big so that kind
of he set that, he planted that flag.
He has tremendous relational equity. He's so well
thought of.
When we came back together and formed our

(06:24):
company as a family,
we certainly traded off of that, but I
think
where we really accelerated things and to get
more granular and to give people a better
timeline,
we went through a significant
rebrand.
I would say it was about 10 years
ago,
where we understood where we came from. We
had that history. We were all now in

(06:45):
this,
but we recognized that in in order for
us to really succeed, to grow, to market,
and to be what we wanted to be,
we had to look differently about
how we were operating in terms of how
we're being presented. Because
just knowing people in the marketplace or just
being known and having good relationships, it's great,
but it's not enough.

(07:06):
We took an audience centered approach in that
rebrand,
did some really cool things, created an entire
visual identity, decided we were gonna go on
a mascot, which was also really cool and
part of that strategy, which has paid a
lot of dividends because it allows us to
stand out and be unique and express parts
of our personality in a professional way that
has been really valuable.
And then do things like get the industry's

(07:29):
designation, so we all committed to that.
And I think the last piece was
for that CAE exam, to take that exam.
It was a big exam book as you
would imagine. Right?
The section on risk management
for that book is authored by none other
than the 3 of us. And we didn't

(07:49):
do that to market ourselves. We did that
because that's a give back to the community
because
as thought leaders, we want the community to
have that information. This is what you need
to know to manage risk as an association
professional. That's why we did that. Obviously,
yes, that has benefit for us from
an expertise
and marketing standpoint,

(08:09):
but
those were some really significant components. Now,
how does all of that come into in
terms of a timing and a turnaround thing?
It was several years, I think, before we
really started to see the measurable material results
of this rebrand from when we did it.
It was probably at least 2 years where
I could turn around and tell you, Matt,
look. I think now all of the stuff

(08:31):
we've been trying to do in terms of
our presence in helping people to get to
know all of us, not just our father,
who they had known in other context and
under different company identities,
now it's the 3 of us and we're
all partners. We're not juniors
and seniors.
People see us on the level playing field.
They get to know us because we each

(08:52):
have different strengths and weaknesses. So it was
it took some time, but
fast forward to and I've mentioned this to
you before we got the show started.
We did this so well that we were
thankfully able to successfully sell our practice as
of May 1st this year. So I can
tell you that if you build it, build
in so much more intrinsic value

(09:14):
than you can even recognize.
Yeah. So I'm gonna stop there because that
was a lot. Yeah. I remember talking to
my friend, David Graud junior. This was many
moons ago after he had started Succession Resource
Group. And he and I were on stage
together, and we were arguing about something. And
the argument was
that if you have a niche and if
you have a great brand, a recognizable

(09:36):
brand within that niche, and you have a
predictable flow
of prospects coming from that niche, I believe
that your practice should be valued at a
much higher multiple than somebody who only works
with referrals or who only does seminar marketing
or or things like that. But I'm not
saying referrals or seminars are bad. I'm just
saying that this would be more valuable. And,

(09:57):
Brian, you're you guys are living proof of
that.
People are active were actively coming to you
and saying, you guys have built a business.
It's beyond you,
and so now it's worth even more. But
one of the things that you had said
in the process of building
is that you really need to build the
business

(10:17):
based off of and I'm gonna I'm gonna
read this. You wrote this really well. Create
a business development marketing plan that is built
around your audience,
not around your practice?
Because so many of us just get so
focused on the practice that we don't really
look at it as audience or business. So
could you dive into that?

(10:38):
Yeah. It's
you'll end up still covering and dealing with
a lot of the same stuff that you
do in any kind of business development and
marketing strategies. It's really just a different
paradigm.
Why
we have the reputation and brand recognition
that we do
is because

(10:58):
we want to know
if we're sitting on the other side of
the table from our ideal clients,
what is it like for them to want
to work with us to begin with? What
are they really looking for? What is their
experience of our services like?
Why do they select
one

(11:18):
broker or professional over another? And
what are the things that they really need
from us,
not just regular deliverables in terms of insurance
and renewals and all the other stuff, but
what does an ideal experience look like that
elevates things for them,
absolutely, obviously takes exceptional care of them, but

(11:39):
then also
creates a start raving fan experience? Because
the best way to get referrals is to
not have to ask, It's to be referable.
And if you
are referable,
you'll never have to ask, and we don't
have to ask, and we get anywhere from
a half dozen to a dozen organic leads

(12:00):
every single month without doing marketing, without doing
a spend, without having to go through all
these and yes, we do have things that
we do in terms of content creation and
all the other stuff to to position ourselves
in the marketplace, but it's not because
we're trying to go out and create all
these lead funnels. That's not it at all.
We've just done enough things for enough people,

(12:22):
and they're just out there telling our story
really effectively. And actually,
to to a more strategic point,
our biggest issue over the last several years
is actually refining and helping
our clients
give us better referrals. We realized
that we really needed to help them understand

(12:43):
this is our ideal
client type. Now, again, we're gonna we're gonna
help and take care of people regardless of
size or potential and all that other stuff
because that's what matters to us, and frankly,
that's what matters to the market. But that
was something that we actually had to continue
to not just as we're marketing in terms
of who we're targeting, but really the people
that have been singing our praises

(13:03):
just to give them a better idea. If
you're talking to this type of person, that's
really the best. And that was, again, a
strategy that we've continued to go through and
refine. So it's Yeah. When you start with
that person in mind and you and they
tell you, literally,
they tell you, this is what you need
to do for me to think you're awesome

(13:23):
and amazing. Yeah. What else? There you go.
Like, you're done. Yeah. I think so many
advisers are just terrified to ask that question.
I have to unpack, like, 8 things that
you said there. I'm not gonna get to
all 8. But the first thing is you
talked about the fact and we talk about
this all the time, skeptics to fans. Right?
You are not talking to anybody who's skeptical
of who you are and what you do
because of your content strategy. You have the

(13:43):
social proof plus the association proof, the designation
proof, and the commitment proof. All of those
things are ticking those boxes, so you're really
talking to fans.
So when you build such a strong brand
and you have such an amazing offering that
is fundamentally unique and different to your niche,
that's when, you're right, you are known as

(14:07):
that person. And so any of your marketing
spend is really built there to reinforce
those messages
instead of going from that stop all the
way forward. Now I have to rewind something
because as eloquently as you answered my previous
question, you didn't actually give us a time.
And so you said 1992

(14:27):
was the time that your dad became a
fellow.
How long before
1992 when your dad became a fellow Was
he really working to achieve that? Was it,
like, 3 years? Was it 1 year? Was
it 10 years? How long was he
dipping his toe in this niche before he
got that recognition? Give you a really good

(14:48):
solid answer, I don't know that I have
that. I can tell you this,
that
he had built a very successful business
and and earned that reputation for probably at
least a decade prior to him becoming a
fellow. So you could tell the it was
already proof positive,
and the fact that he became a fellow
was just like the icing on the proverbial

(15:09):
cake of who he was.
And so I think
and when we planted our flag as the
Haney company,
we really we had a few misses getting
out the gate for a couple of years
until we really went back in and said,
oh, we gotta clean all this up. We
gotta do a formal rebrand and all this
other stuff because
it's the brand that makes all the difference.

(15:30):
It's not all of the other stuff. Like,
in the absence of a brand,
we're just practitioners that look, sound, and act
like everybody else. It doesn't matter how good
we are or if we're the best in
the room. Like, with without a brand,
we don't have that compelling reason for somebody
to want us and then to stay with
us. So that was such a major emphasis
of us, and it did I think it

(15:51):
paid pretty quick dividends in terms of 2
years. Seems like a long time, but for
something that has such significant material impact, I'm
glad that it would only You guys were
3, 4, or 5. I guess we did
a few things. I think for my dad,
he it's very interesting, Matt,
because he's been in this market for so
long, and he has so many friends. These

(16:13):
are these again,
people that I remember growing up were at
holiday parties and all the other stuff, which
by the way is a total funny aside.
It was a little awkward when we got
started because there were a couple meetings where
people come over and be like, oh, I
remember when you were this tall. And I
was, that's great. I'm not that tall anymore
and
this is going to be interesting. But we
worked it out. We got through it obviously.

(16:34):
But he
criticizes himself a lot because he says a
lot of times, I don't know that I've
actually
been as intentional as I should be with
the fellows for business because he's a giver.
And I think that's another point. Right?
Your brand will
skyrocket
when you are willing to go into your

(16:56):
target market
and just make the market better, whether or
not
you get business from those efforts. There's a
big difference between going in and being intentional
about
targeting a market and wanting to get a
lot of business from it. There's
a different approach when you're saying, no. I
do want that, but I want that to
be a byproduct of me actually going in

(17:16):
and just making the market better. And that's
why
we have the reputation that we do because
that's true for us. We provide content, value,
information, resources
whether or not the people in the association
space ever end up working with us because
we want those association professionals to be better.
We want the association
industry to be better. And if we can

(17:38):
be a part of, that's why we're there.
Whatever
business we get out of it, we're gonna
be okay with, but that's always our heart,
that's always our goal, that's our value system.
Yeah. And that is important.
And that's our whole model here, which is
one of the reasons why I think you
and I just really synced up. And we're
like, oh my gosh. We're basically running the
same sort of business. Kirk and I decided

(17:58):
in 2016 when we met, 20 seventies when
we opened our doors, that we fundamentally wanted
to change the way advisors looked at marketing.
And all we tried to do, you're going
to be 480 something episodes. Right? We do
biweekly webinars. We're just constantly trying to do
whatever we can
to continue to move that needle. And the
cool thing is, and much like what's happened

(18:18):
with you, we've actually been seeing that needle
moving more and more because there's people who
are coming in who are trying to emulate
what we're doing or copy what we're doing,
and that's very flattering, but means that we're
really on the right track. Now I would
be remiss as the host of the Top
Advisor Marketing podcast
if I didn't ask you, what the hell
are you doing from a marketing perspective?

(18:39):
Because you do create a substantial amount of
social proof, but let's talk about let's talk
about what you do and then how you
do
it. Yeah. So as major kind of content
components in terms of what we're doing, the
biggest one is LinkedIn is our social media
space. That's our emphasis and our focus.
Again,

(18:59):
why that's the case is because our audience
is there and it matters. It matters to
them. They're not on other channels and platforms.
We do have a Twitter account. We do
have a Facebook. We've got a few of
those other things, but that's just,
that's not where we spend time
trying to really have those as be content
vehicles, but we don't want people to not
be able to find us in the but

(19:20):
LinkedIn is where we spend our time in
terms of, again,
advancing
the conversation, the narrative, and not
speaking to our audience to get them to
do anything, but having collaborative
two way conversations about things that are meaningful
to them and trying to add to that
in meaningful ways. I did launch a podcast,

(19:41):
and
again, why? Because that was a great opportunity,
a content strategy
that landed with our audience. There were just
a lot of people that said, we love
listening to podcasts.
It
wasn't an overly saturated night.
Interestingly, probably still isn't an overly saturated place.

(20:01):
There's some good association podcasts, but there's just
not a ton. It all just made sense,
and it really was
an additional way for us to do content
in a way that we could have really
good conversations,
we could talk about certain topics in a
meaningful way that, I think, allow people to

(20:22):
get that paradigm shift or hear about something
a little bit differently. Our goal, meh,
our goal with everything that we put out
is
singular. I want to help
someone, anyone connecting to our content, take that
next step.
That's it.
If they can receive
enough value truth and then have something that

(20:43):
they can apply immediately and take one step,
not 10 steps, not all the steps, and
maybe not a step that leads them back
to us,
but it's impactful enough that they got something
figured out that now they can start to
move.
That's always our goal, and that's how we
approach
the way that we do our content.
We have a few, what I will call
microsites, that we've put out there, which are

(21:04):
just websites with information that
obviously are SEO kind of built, but they're
not super glamorous,
just places that, again, we want the community
to be able to go to get information,
somewhat static and generic, evergreen, if you will,
but we have a few of those out
there as well. And then really, the big
thing is just presence in the community itself.

(21:25):
They do speaking, professional speaking,
because associations need a lot of people to
speak. They do conferences. They do workshops. They
do all kinds of education stuff, and that's
important to them. And so, yeah, we plug
in there as much as we can,
not just to speak to them and invite
them to do business with us, but, hey,
if you need somebody to fill a spot
at a conference, happy to do that as

(21:47):
well.
Because again, the goal is to add value,
to make an impact, to help them do
better at what they're doing. And so those
are some of those components
that I think have been pretty helpful and
effective. Do you sponsor
those events? Do you have a booth at
the association
events so that people can come by and
pick up trinkets and trash and chat with

(22:07):
people?
We do. Yeah. So ASAE's annual conferences is
where we have our booth. We've had it
at least 10 years, if not longer. And,
yeah, we are there. That's our largest marketing
spend.
I we do try to get a chance
to do workshops on weekends, so we submit
to speak at the annual conference. I did
speak this past year

(22:27):
with an attorney. We did a session on
risk management, which was really fun to do.
But, yeah, that's a big presence when the
community is coming together and we're enjoying all
of that. So that is that in person
component that we build around. And then there
may be things throughout the year,
smaller in size and scope or whatever, that
can change, but that's our biggest kind of
spend and conference

(22:48):
presence, so to speak.
Yeah. And we I don't think we've ever
really gotten to that point with any of
our guests previously. Obviously, we talk a lot
about niche marketing on this show because we
know that it's vitally important to talk to
your ideal client prospect. But you guys have
really brought this to the next level where
you guys are known within that niche, you're
speaking within that niche, you're you have a
podcast about that niche, you're creating content about

(23:10):
that niche, you're you wrote the risk management
section of the qualification test in that niche,
And I wanted to make sure, Brian, that
we ticked all of those boxes
that I remember talking to you about it
on stage when we were in Vancouver. But
I'm gonna ask you my favorite question, which
is what should I have asked you that
I didn't?
I think maybe

(23:31):
a question about
the mindset shift to be a really effective
branded
financial professional in a niche. Alright. I think
the mindset shift
is
not one of
industry expert, or not one of specialist, or
any of the things that I think, again,
are all true, important, and have value.

(23:54):
What really made the difference for us is
we wanted to be thought
leaders.
And so there's a big difference between specialists
and experts and all this other stuff in
a thought leader because a thought leader is
someone
that it that has all of those dimensions
that people go to. Industry icons
that, you know, because of who they are

(24:15):
and what they've done and how they've helped
the industry, the community, and demonstrated, proved positive
their continued commitment to them and their expertise,
that's what
people see and want to and gravitate to.
And so that's really been a focus of
ours is we know we are thought leaders.
We do wanna be seen that way. And
we want to enter
the community, the association space that way. So
that way,

(24:36):
we can bring that value. We can elevate
things for the community itself.
And so, I think just if you want
to have a paradigm shift,
that's a really impactful way
to reframe things. And it'll probably then
help you as you're going through and looking
at branding and marketing and content and all

(24:56):
the other stuff. Because
thought leaders communicate differently than specialists and experts
and all the other stuff.
Yeah.
And so in our system, I'm gonna proud
mouth ianize everything you just said there. So
we've got an influence continuum. Right? And so
you start as an apprentice, then you become
an expert, and then you become an authority,
and then you become a celebrity.
Right? And that's really what you're celebrity is

(25:17):
what you were talking about. People who are
seeking you out because you are that thought
leader, that's really what a celebrity is in
the world of the expertise economy, which is
what we which is what you sell in
every day and we do too. And most
of us who sell our advice and what's
up here instead of a product or a
service, a trinket, or whatever, we're really selling
our expertise.

(25:38):
And having that as your guiding light, I
want to get here and I am going
to start thinking
as if I am there,
that fundamentally
changes everything. I remember the first time, I
don't remember, it was years years ago, it
was right before COVID occurred. We were probably
2 years into the business,
and somebody had come up to me and

(25:58):
said, Matt, you're a podcasting expert. And I
was like, really? And then I went to
the podcast movement, which is this huge podcasting
convention, and I was walking around talking to
other podcasters who weren't really students of the
game. Now they put on a good show
and some of them were very popular.
That was a huge mindset shift for me.
And then recently, probably within the last
year,

(26:19):
we shifted to the next level, which is
Matt's not just a podcasting expert.
Proudmouth are influence acceleration experts. Our whole goal
is to help you become more influential
and and ticking all of those boxes that
you just said. And I want everybody to
go back and listen
to this entire episode again, not because I'm

(26:40):
looking for the plays, because,
Brian, you
there is so much there in the spaces
in between some of the things that you
said that I really wanna make sure that
our audience pays very close attention to. I
could take the next 40 minutes unpacking what
you said, but I would rather have people
unpack that for themselves
mostly because, 1, we like to keep the

(27:02):
podcast tight. But the other reason is because
I know as a coach that if you
make the realization on your own, the probability
of you acting on that realization is much
higher. And, Brian, dude, thank you very much
for being on the show today, brother. This
was fantastic. If people wanna know more about
you, your firm, or follow you, where should
they go? And LinkedIn, obviously, but where else
should they go?

(27:23):
Probably, you can go to my professional speaking
website because it's easier to remember. So it's
just brianjhaney.com.
Our company, the Haney Company, which now is
a division of a great organization called Relation,
some of that might be changing. Brian J.
Haney will stay and definitely.
I'm extremely findable in the LinkedIn space

(27:44):
and I would love to anybody
that has that listens to this episode and
just wants to pick my brain,
I am widely available. I love questions. I
want
our industry, the financial industry, to continue to
be amazing.
And if I can help you, just reach
out. Believe me, I will make the time
for it. And I'm so grateful, Matt, that

(28:05):
you do what you do.
We need more of this
because we got a pretty significant hill to
climb, I think, to continue to do great
things for
America as an entire industry, but we're getting
there. And so I'm just I'm excited to
have been here. Thank you so much. And,
yeah, hopefully, maybe there can be a part
2 if there's enough interest. Yeah. And listen.
Yeah. If you want if you all of

(28:26):
you want us to dive in more deeply,
we can do lots of different things with
Brian. We could have him come on. We
could do a webinar on this too because,
again, I think there really is a lot
to unpack. But the reason why I wanted
Brian on the show, like I said at
the top of the show, is when you
really embed yourself in a niche,
magical things happen. It doesn't happen overnight. Right?

(28:46):
Sometimes your dad in 1992
took that first big step, and you're continuing
to refine and ride that wave, or it's
something that you need to start today. And
I want you to remember that if you
start it today,
it isn't gonna give you dividends this week
or next week or maybe even the next
few months, but it is what you're gonna
do to build a business, not just a

(29:06):
practice that not only you'll have a higher
chance of selling, but more importantly, you're gonna
be able to work with your ideal clients
that you wanna work with, that you love,
and, of course, who love you.
And if there's anything that we can do
for you, if you want to start a
podcast with us, we'd be more than happy
to sit down and chat with you. Or
if you'd like to join our PodRocket Influence
Academy, go to podrocketacademy.com.

(29:27):
We have all of these wonderful courses there
that can help you rise above the noise
and be your own loud, and we also
have a great thing called branding 101 in
our brand basics worksheet that will help you
figure out what issue you should go after.
So for Brian and all of us here
at ProudMouth, this is Matt Halloran, and we'll
see you on the other side of the
mic very soon.
Thanks for listening to the Top Advisor Marketing

(29:48):
Podcast brought to you by ProudMouth.
If you wanna know more about how you
can be your own loud, visit us at
proudmouth.com
and sign up for the PodRocket Academy.
Through courses and office hours led by professional
podcast producers and digital marketers, you will learn
everything you need to know to become the
trusted subject matter expert you were meant to
be.