October 1, 2025 • 29 mins
This week on Transit Unplugged:
We head to Singapore, where public transit covers every inch of the island—and carries an astonishing 7.5 million riders daily.
Host Paul Comfort sits down with Winston Toh, Managing Director of Tower Transit Singapore, one of four operators under the Land Transport Authority (LTA). With 800 buses across 60 routes, Tower Transit is at the center of a system designed with precision—and powered by centralized planning.
Winston shares:
- Why bus ridership (3.8M daily) surpasses rail (3.4M) in Singapore
- How LTA ensures full national coverage and low fares (as little as $0.69 for seniors)
- Why “every inch of the land is covered” with integrated bus and rail systems
- The role of AI-enabled safety tools, including fatigue detection and driver incentive programs
- How Tower Transit fosters a people-first culture, with 80% staff engagement and Singapore Best Employer status
- The company’s goal to become “the Singapore Airlines of the bus industry”
Whether you’re an operator, planner, or policymaker, this episode offers a blueprint for equitable, efficient, and tech-forward mobility.
Creator, Host & Producer — Paul Comfort
Executive Producer — Julie Gates
Producer — Chris O'Keeffe
Edited and Mixed by — Chris O’Keeffe + Patrick Emile
Associate Producer — Cyndi Raskin
Special thanks to:
Brand Design — Tina Olagundoye
Social Media — Tatyana Mechkarova
Got a question or comment? Email us at info@transitunplugged.com
Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent. This production belongs to Modaxo and may contain information subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual-property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
I'm here right now at the AmericanPublic Transportation Association
TRANSform Conference where the Tdoes it pretty well here in Boston.
I'm Paul Comfort and this isTransit Unplugged, the world's
leading transit executive podcast.
And I just had a conversation withWinston Toh, who is the general manager
for Tower Transit running bus servicein Singapore, where the LTA, the Land
Transport Authority operates what'sconsidered one of the finest examples
(00:25):
of integrated transit in the world.
Listen to Winston today tell you abouthow his company is a big part of that
on this episode of Transit Unplugged.
great to be with Winston Toh,who is the managing director
of Tower Transit in Singapore.
Winston, thanks for beingon the show with us.
(00:46):
Thank you.
My pleasure.
Great to have you with us again to talkabout public transportation in Singapore.
Those who are fans of the show willknow we spent quite a bit of time in
Singapore a couple years ago and didan episode of our TV show there and
talked to Jeremy Yap, who's the deputydirector of LTA Land Transport Authority.
Winston, tell us about whatTower Transit does there.
(01:07):
Well, we are one of the four publictransport operator in Singapore.
We operate two out of the 14 buscontracting model package in Singapore.
And that is about 15% of the totalroute that Singapore operates.
We operate a total of about 60 routes.
(01:28):
We have about 800 public citybuses and we have got two packages.
One package is called Bulim BusPackage, and the other one is
called Sembawang-Yishun Bus Package.
Singapore, I think it has one of thebest transit systems in the world.
I've been all over the place andI know it's been ranked that way
in many rankings, but amazing theamount of people that ride public
(01:51):
transportation in Singapore.
Seven and a half million trips a day.
Talk to us some about the island itself,where it's situated, and kind of give
us some of the background for peoplewho aren't familiar with Singapore.
Well, Paul, you are near Rhode Island.
We are just about maybe a quarter of thesize of Rhode Island and Singapore will
fit right inside Washington Beltway.
(02:14):
And we have got aboutonly 5.9 million people.
And part of it also, there are touriststhat comes in and out, is a very
popular tourist destination as well.
And we have been told that we are one ofthe best city for public transportation
building about 7.5 million trips per year.
(02:35):
About 5,800 buses operatingon our roads daily.
And a total of about 400 bus routes.
And the fare is somethingthat is commendable.
We keep the bus fare veryaffordable for people.
Like, as an example, you know,is between $1 and 19 cents to
a maximum of $2 and 26 cents.
(02:58):
And our senior citizen gets concessionand they start at 69 cents for the first
3.2 kilometer, and you'll probably spendonly about $1 and 2 cents the whole day.
Right.
The public transport system iswell integrated between bus and the
trains, so it support each other.
You have one card and you canswitch from train to buses.
(03:20):
Just using the one payment card.
And you have a rail service theretakes about 3.4 million people a day.
The light rail, 210,000, but thebus is the heavy hitter, right?
Yes.
3.8 million passengers a day.
I mean, that's, if you have 5million people there, pretty
much everybody's riding it.
It sounds like the bulk of thepeople ride transit, right?
(03:42):
Yes.
Yeah.
In fact, that is one of thegovernment initiative trying to
make, move people from privatetransport towards public transport.
Right.
You all were one of the first cities inthe world to have congestion charging.
When I was there last time, Jeremydrove me around and showed me, you know,
there's the gantries, here's how it works.
Just like we started inNew York City this year.
(04:02):
Yeah, it's a economic cost.
You know, if you don't manage thetime, there's a economic cost for that.
And I think if we were to be insome of the other Asian city, you
realize that you want to get from oneplace to another place for meeting.
Sometimes for a two kilometerroute, it take you two hours.
So these are really challenges.
So for Singapore, this is not an issue.
(04:23):
If people prefer to drive, theycan take the car, but actually,
public transport will take youto your destination much faster.
So tell us about Singapore itself.
It's like a city state, right?
And it's located close to Malaysia.
So it's probably, if you wannaput it, it's quite in the
center of Southeast Asia, right?
The tip of the entire Asia continent,where it links the Indian Ocean to the
(04:47):
South China Sea, and that's one of themost important trade rounds in the world
from the early turn of the centuries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love the spicy crab there andthe food marts and all that stuff.
The outdoor food market.
I remember going there gettingall kinds of different food that
we did it on the show actually.
Tower Transit though.
Really the name Tower Transit fora lot of people, they may think
(05:10):
of it as British because it kindof started there, I think, right?
And then came into Singapore.
Yes.
The people who started in UK, London.
Well, because of the TowerBridge in London, they started
our transit, London, TTOL.
And then the same people foundedthe Singapore one, where it came
in, they won the first contractto operate in Singapore in 21-5.
(05:34):
And we commence operation in 2016.
So that is part of thegroup Tower Transit.
Here in America, I'm head of I'mthe executive director of a group
called the North American TransitAlliance, which represents the six
largest bus contractors in America.
And, I've noted numerous times thatacross the world, cities and agencies
(05:56):
like Singapore, they actually contractout most, if not all of their public bus
service, the fixed route bus service.
Here in America, it's not that way.
Here in America, a lot of the paratransit,which are the vans for people with
disabilities is contracted out, buta much smaller percentage of the
fixed route buses are contracted out.
Tell us how that works overthere and what are the results?
(06:16):
Actually in Singapore, youknow, everything works right and
it's because of the governmentintervention in centralized planning.
When you have a centralizedplanning system, there's
lesser waste stages, right?
So therefore there is this trainsystem plus a bus system coming
together to ensure that all thepopulation bases are being covered.
(06:40):
Yeah.
And constantly they keep improving.
And because every of the constituencieshas got their member of parliament
right, and they will also fightfor their citizens in the area to
have coverage, I would say everyinch of the land is covered by some
form of public transport services.
Wow.
So through the centralized planning by thegovernment, they will then, well divide so
(07:04):
far, they have divided into 14 packages tocover possibly the geographical area, but
they intercross each other because someof the route are called trunk services,
and some of them are the feeder services.
So the feeder services arethe one that serve the last
mile interest of the commuter.
(07:24):
They finish their train, you know,come from CBD, go home and they
take the feeder service back totheir home in a very short trip.
Whereas at the same time we are alsocovering some part of it are trunk
services that people also preferto take buses rather than train.
So we have got all this coverage,so there's lesser wastage
with this form of planning.
(07:45):
Yeah.
I love how safe it is there too.
I remember being there, and a buddy ofmine that was with me said, that works
there, said Paul, "Literally, I couldgo out into the park at midnight with
my laptop and work and I don't haveto turn around and, you know, worry if
somebody's gonna come up and knock me overthe head." It just, it doesn't happen.
There's just really almost, you know,it's virtually crime free is what he said.
(08:07):
We have got a very strictgun control in Singapore.
So, first of all, life are not a stake.
Secondly, I think over the many yearswe have cleaned up quite a lot of
drug related things, and that reducedthe crime rate and much now things
are very safe over the many years.
Yeah.
Tell us about how long you've beenthere and then talk to us about Tower
(08:30):
Transit, how long they've been there.
Yeah.
I've been in with Tower Transitfor about six and a half years now.
And Tower Transit hasbeen here for nine years.
So in the first two and a halfyears, I was not with them.
And, I took over in2019, beginning of 2019.
I've been with them since then.
(08:52):
And, just a little bit of background,I was a military officer, career
military officer in the SingaporeArmed Forces for many years.
Out there after, I've got a few othercommercial jobs before I landed on
this about six and a half years ago.
Yeah.
That's great.
And you all are part ofthe Kelsian Group, right?
Which is out of Australia.
Yes, yes.
(09:12):
Yeah.
Great people there.
I've had several of them on the show.
I'm very impressed by theoperations of the Kelsian Group.
It was through them I think thatI was able to connect with you.
So it was great.
Talk to us about some of the expansionyou've got now you've got, you've
told us about what you already aredoing there, but aren't you going
into Sentosa Island Bus operations?
(09:33):
As to the expansion, so whatwe do now is that currently
I'm operating two bus packages.
The two bus packages comprise ofabout 806 buses, 60 of our routes.
Some are city directservices and all that.
So first part of the expansion is really,within the bus contracting model every
(09:55):
year there will be tender coming out.
So that part of the organicgrowth path is always there.
And, we have submitted a tenderfor a package called PT220, which
is a Tampines package, resultwill be out in the one two months.
So that is one part of theexpansion within that itself.
The second part of expansion, you haveheard it that we have won the Sentosa
(10:19):
contract to operate three guest servicesroute, five employee services route, and
also a Beach Trend Services in Sentosa.
So that was, that is our first forayinto the commercial bus business,
and that is the second part of thenon-organic growth in that sense
into the commercial transport area.
(10:41):
And there are also other opportunity thatis coming up and they came to us I guess
it's because of our reputation of beingvery reliable and service orientated
operator that people thinks that byhaving us there, you help them in their
branding as well as their operations.
So, there are many opportunity thatcame to us and we think that these
(11:04):
are opportunities for us continueto expand ourself in Singapore.
Yeah.
And where is Sentosa Islandin relationship to Singapore?
Sentosa Island is a,it's a tourism island.
Okay.
South Singapore, right at thesouthern tip of Singapore.
Okay.
And it's all tourist,Universal Studio is there.
(11:26):
Oh wow.
Nice hotel there.
Beach resort.
Yeah.
Very nice.
Yeah, that sounds likea place I'd wanna visit.
It sounds fun.
That's great.
Now, I think it was Glenn, or someonewas telling me about you guys have
some AI enabled safety system training.
And, I'm very interested in thatand people here in the U.S. and I
(11:47):
know everywhere in the world, areinterested in trying to see how AI
can help improve what they're doing.
Tell us about what youguys are doing there.
Well, first and foremost, I think safetyis top priority in the bus business.
And, you know, printed behind our safetyvest is this what called Get Home Safe?
Can you see that?
(12:07):
Get home safe?
Yeah.
So it says get home safe.
Yeah.
On the back of the vest.
Yeah.
I think we are all very obsessedgetting our people home safe as well
as getting the commuter home safe.
So we spend inordinate amount of timelooking at safety related issues, right?
All the way plotting from the timethey get onto the bus till the time
they go home, they get out the bus.
(12:30):
And that is for all age groups fromwheelchair bound people to people that
has got invisible disability right.
To a 90-year-old peopleand things like that.
So that part of it, it covers a wholespectrum of safety and truth to it
(12:51):
is that the one that takes care ofsafety for this is our frontline
staff called our bus captains.
We call them bus captains because they arelike captain, you know, piloting the bus.
And the bus captain has got a heavyresponsibility of ensuring safety.
And, other than, you know,slowing down for the people,
gentle braking and all that.
(13:13):
There are also other road user thatwill affect the way he drives and
speed of the vehicle and all that.
And I would say that although Singaporeansare pretty good drivers, but there are
still errant drivers that cut into thelane, you know, suddenly stopping in
front of you and causing the bus driverto have to put on the emergency brakes.
(13:35):
So what we are doing now is to put ina lot more technology to help that.
And, shape the safetyculture of our bus captains.
You know, in public transport,one of the pressure that we have
is keeping to the time schedule.
If every bus captain have to keeptheir time schedule, they will be very
anxious to do that, and therefore thesafety behavior may be compromised.
(13:57):
We want them to have that peace of mind.
We monitor it at the back end, and ifthey're a bit late, we'll tell them,
say not to worry about it so thatthey can continue to drive safely.
And, we put in a lot more technology.
So one of the area which willaffect driving is driver's fatigue.
So we put in a camera system right infront of them that monitor them, it's
(14:17):
called the effect management system.
The camera can look at them, butthere's an AI behind it because there
are, there are many features insidethere, whether it be closing your
eyes using a hand phones and allthat, but there could also be possibly
false positive, false negative there.
So what we do is that we introduce AIthere to analyze based on the different
(14:37):
factors, to say that this guy is genuinelytired and we should intervene right now.
Yeah, so like if a driver's eyesare closing or he is nodding
off, you can see that right.
Yeah, so we use AI to detect thisfalse positive and to be able to
then address it at the correct time.
So this is one of them.
The other area that we introducein technology is this thing
(15:00):
called
telematics.
So we have got a telematics systemthat discourage them from harsh
breaking, tight cornering, you know,back cornering and things like that.
So there is a light system there,it's like a traffic light system.
If they're okay, they're green ifthey're not, so, okay, they're amber.
If they get red means they havecommitted something that's quite serious.
(15:21):
So we actually give them an
award.
So they get $120
incentive, right.
And, most of them want to get thisincentive, so they drive very carefully.
So in terms they shape their behavior,they brake very gently, you know, they
don't do harsh turnings and all that.
And that makes the commutervery safe and comfortable.
(15:41):
We also installed this startinhibitor where only our bus
captain can start the bus.
There were incidences that other peoplejumped onto a bus and start to drive the
bus away, and, you know, that is quitea, quite a weapon if you can be, right.
Yeah.
So, so these are some of the technologiesthat we introduced inside and some of
the AI technology involve also AI intothe camera that if there are people who
(16:06):
come too close, you know, other roaduser that come too close, blind corners
and all that, you are beat off at thecorrect direction for the bus driver to
alert them of a danger, potential danger.
Yeah.
That's great.
We're talking with, WinstonToh is the managing director
of Tower Transit in Singapore.
Right after this word, we're gonnacome back and ask him about the
culture of the operations thereand also what they have planned for
(16:28):
the future right after this word.
Thanks for listening to theTransit Unplugged Podcast.
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On Transit Unplugged TV, Paul Comfortexplores the food, culture, and
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(16:49):
You get to see everything.
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Unplugged News Minute whereyou can get the latest industry
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You can find out moreat transitunplugged.com.
Now back to Paul Comfort forthis edition of the award-winning
Transit Unplugged podcast.
(17:10):
We're back with Winston Toh, managingdirector of Tower Transit in Singapore,
one of the main contractors who areproviding bus service with 800 buses
operating on the island of Singapore.
And, Winston, thanksfor being with us today.
Now, you all have been there nineyears, you've mentioned, and you've
got some, some key turning pointsand milestones in the company that
you've had since you've been there.
Talk to us about those.
(17:31):
Well, I use three words to describe that.
It's called 3D three dimension.
No, not three Dimension.
So first D is about, initiallyit's a doubtful future.
Alright?
And second D is
doubling the scale.
The third D is diversification.
So I'll talk about the first D. All right.
That full future, well, I came inat a point in time where my friend
(17:55):
here will call it the sinking shipsituation where our relationship with
the authority and the union wasn't great.
And at that point in time, we onlyhave one contract that's expiring
in about two and a half years time.
So I came in at that point in timeand I basically re-engineered the
company and restructured it a littlebit so that we can operate much better.
(18:18):
And through that period of time,we managed to build up a very open,
transparent culture where people arehappy working like a little family here.
And that was a transitionthat we did very well.
Today, I must say the companyhas got a great culture, with
people happy working here.
The second one isdoubling the scale, right.
(18:40):
At that point in time, we only havemaybe one trip only, only one trip.
If we lose that, everything is gone.
We were very anxious about
that, and we put in for the next tender.
A
good proposal and we managed to win notonly ours back, but also another package.
And that's where
how we expanded to 2 packages from there.
(19:02):
And the third one is diversification,as you know, after we have done that,
anyway, for your information, we havejust got this, these two contract
extended for another two years, right?
To-
Congratulations.
-eight.. Yeah.
And then as part of the diversification,we have now won the Sentosa, bus packages.
And a few other opportunities hascoming out, diversification into the
(19:25):
commercial bus business and also someof the engineering and maintenance
business for buses, which we are,which is part of our core capabilities.
Yeah, so these are the area.
That's great.
And talk to us about thecompany culture there.
You guys are prettymuch staffed up, right?
You've gotten all your driverpositions filled and mechanics and
(19:46):
you are standing out I understand asan employer who, you know, is really
good at attraction and retention.
What is the culture you havethere that allows you to do that?
Well, I guess, I think we haveto make everybody very happy
in working for this company.
Right?
So just a little bit about us is that wehave been Singapore best employer, part
(20:06):
of the Singapore best employer two yearfor this year and last year as well.
And this year we are likelyto get it another one.
Staff engagement is about 80%,which is very high, right?
And a great place to work certificationhas, we have got a work good,
great place to work certification.
I think that part of it have to dowith our people first culture, right?
We take care of an employee very well.
(20:28):
As an example, we, every monthwe have got a free haircut.
Free massages when they comeback, they're tired at the depot.
We give that free massage and haircut.
We have company events likefamily day as well as annual
awards night for them, right?
And, we walk the ground.
The leaders walk the ground every day.
(20:50):
Talk to the drivers.
Yeah.
Feedback and, yeah, so we reachout to them every day and we
adopt a very open culture.
A bus captain can walkinto my office anytime.
That's the kind of culture that we have.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I first started with them, wethink that very important to have
a vision, mission, and values.
We crafted our vision, mission, andvalues, and that is something in which
(21:13):
every one of us embraced it, right?
And, today, even the values arebeing used in their assessments.
So we got a values "cities"C-I-T-I-E-S, and the first one is care.
The second one is integrity.
Third one is teamwork, followed byinnovation, excellence, and safety.
(21:38):
So these values are in everybodyand people are living it not
just hanging by the mouth.
And, these are very important part of it.
And recently we also have something that'sjust done, it's called a service motto.
We want to deliver positiveexperience at every touch point for
our staff as well as a commuter.
(21:58):
So therefore, we came up with thisservice model called People Moving People.
Double meaning people moving peopleis transportation, but people moving,
people in emotional sense of movingpeople through their experience.
And that part of it builds out our companycultures and we think that we have got
(22:18):
very happy employees working for us.
That's great.
So as I mentioned earlier,you all are part of a larger
group called the Kelsian Group.
How does being part of a large,you know, international group
influence your operations hereand maybe you have an example or
two of cross border collaborationand how that's had a real impact.
Yeah.
(22:38):
Most recently we started toimplement electric vehicle,
electric bus in Singapore.
And Kelsian Group started theirimplementation earlier than us and
they have got it in Sydney, right?
And they have got ahundred of buses in Sydney.
So before we actually embark onthat, we actually went over to
(22:58):
Sydney and see how they set up thiswhole thing through that experience.
And LTA used to ask us for recommendationon some of the things and best practices.
And there was a trip that webrought LTA to London to learn
about the London operations, right?
So, and then the other areas, like forexample, during tenders we share data
(23:20):
tasks together, for the tender, right?
And some of the people practices, we shareabout safety practices across the group.
Right.
Got safety moments thatwe share with each other.
Yeah.
That's good.
So let's look ahead then.
What do you see coming next forTower Transit in terms of innovation,
(23:40):
expansion or partnerships?
I think I've talked about the growth,the diversification, and other
things that's coming right ahead isthis subject called autonomous bus.
AV, AV bus, Recently, Ministry ofTransport has started this journey
and they have already decided on someof the blueprint for the AV journey,
(24:03):
starting with, two routes that isrecently tendered out for AV bus.
Another two precinct, onein called Kampongo, right?
They are starting end of the yearand another one in Tinga where we are
operating, starting again for AV bus.
So this is the start of the AV journey,which we want to be part of it, and we
(24:23):
are starting to look at collaboration,partnership, and building capabilities
to be able to do the AV bus work.
Yeah.
Are they looking for like levelfour autonomy, level five?
Do you know, is it fullyautonomous with no driver?
Yes.
In fact, there is already a bus inSentosa that is without driver now.
(24:43):
So the only recently thatthey took out the driver.
So right now there is a busthat's operating without driver.
There are also buses that'soperating in enclosed area.
For example, Ngee Ann Polytecnic.
There are buses that's operatingthere internally without driver.
Not without driver, with safetydriver, but not touching.
Yes.
(25:04):
Not touching the steering wheel, right?
Yeah.
So we are approaching levelfour and level five now.
Okay.
Very good.
People who have never been toSingapore, have some of them have seen
pictures, I'm sure, of some of thebuildings downtown that look amazing.
What's that one building called?
It's got like three tall buildings.
What is it?
Bay Sands.
Yes.
Yeah.
I went to the top of that last timeI was there and I did the the picture
(25:27):
where it looks like the thing ispouring water into your mouth when
you're down in the, in the main, yeah.
I forget the name of that.
Lion.
Lion,
Yeah, that's it, the lion.
Yeah.
So, um, but there's beautifulscenery all around there too.
What would you say is one of yourfavorite scenic bus routes in Singapore?
You have to take service 1 0 6.
Okay.
(25:48):
Service 1 0 6 is one of our bus routethat goes through this scenic route.
You pass through Botanical Garden,which is a World Heritage site.
You pass through OrchardRoad the shopping belt.
They go right through Marina Bay areaand you can see all the scenic places.
So's, anyone come to Singapore,please go and take service.
1 0 6, take 1 0 6 and send busdriver will take care of you.
(26:11):
There you go.
That's great.
And if you could make one improvementto the bus network tomorrow, if
you know the budget wasn't anissue, red tape, what would it be?
I'll tell you the most difficult,and that's what I wish for.
Okay.
It's called service deliverymodel for our bus captains.
The rest of it, I think technology,all this thing you can just
(26:34):
throw inside as it matures.
But the hardest part of it isshaping the culture of the people
to deliver positive services.
And, you know, behind us we just wantto maybe say one day our service can
be like, you know, Singapore Airlines,SQ. We want to be like, you know,
Singapore Airlines, SQ of the buses.
(26:55):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
I love that.
That's great, man.
Yeah.
You know speaking of the airline, that'sa wonderful vision for you to have.
People that visit the Singaporeairport, what's that like big waterfall
like I saw there when I was in.
That thing is fantasticinside the airport.
Jewel.
The jewel.
Yeah, the jewel.
Yeah.
It's been a few years sinceI was there, but yeah.
(27:16):
That is great, man.
Well, Winston, thank you so muchfor spending some time with us
today to talk to me about your
operations there.
And, Glenn Lim, thank you so
much for helping to get this set up.
We appreciate it and we encourage people,
I mean.
I love Singapore.
I would love to come backthere someday and see it all.
It's just a great place and you all havean amazing transit system kind of overseen
(27:36):
by the LTA, the Land Transport Authority.
And congratulations on
the great work you're doing.
I'll be
interested to see how yourAV, your autonomous vehicles
work out there as well.
I know everybody around theworld is looking to that.
Yeah.
Great.
Paul.
Hope to visit you soon.
Yes, now.
Alright.
Thanks again guys.
(28:00):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Transit Unplugged, the world's
number one transit executive podcast.
I'm Julie Gates, executiveproducer of the podcast.
Many thanks to the teamthat makes this show happen.
Host and producer, PaulComfort, producer Chris O'Keefe,
editor Patrick Emile, associateproducer Cyndi Raskin, and consultants
(28:21):
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(28:43):
Thanks for listening, and we'll catch youon the next episode of Transit Unplugged.
I'm here right now at the AmericanPublic Transportation Association
TRANSform Conference where the Tdoes it pretty well here in Boston.
I'm Paul Comfort and this isTransit Unplugged, the world's
leading transit executive podcast.
And I just had a conversation withWinston Toh, who is the general manager
for Tower Transit running bus servicein Singapore, where the LTA, the Land
Transport Authority operates what'sconsidered one of the finest examples
(00:25):
of integrated transit in the world.
Listen to Winston today tell you abouthow his company is a big part of that
on this episode of Transit Unplugged.
great to be with Winston Toh,who is the managing director
of Tower Transit in Singapore.
Winston, thanks for beingon the show with us.
(00:46):
Thank you.
My pleasure.
Great to have you with us again to talkabout public transportation in Singapore.
Those who are fans of the show willknow we spent quite a bit of time in
Singapore a couple years ago and didan episode of our TV show there and
talked to Jeremy Yap, who's the deputydirector of LTA Land Transport Authority.
Winston, tell us about whatTower Transit does there.
(01:07):
Well, we are one of the four publictransport operator in Singapore.
We operate two out of the 14 buscontracting model package in Singapore.
And that is about 15% of the totalroute that Singapore operates.
We operate a total of about 60 routes.
(01:28):
We have about 800 public citybuses and we have got two packages.
One package is called Bulim BusPackage, and the other one is
called Sembawang-Yishun Bus Package.
Singapore, I think it has one of thebest transit systems in the world.
I've been all over the place andI know it's been ranked that way
in many rankings, but amazing theamount of people that ride public
(01:51):
transportation in Singapore.
Seven and a half million trips a day.
Talk to us some about the island itself,where it's situated, and kind of give
us some of the background for peoplewho aren't familiar with Singapore.
Well, Paul, you are near Rhode Island.
We are just about maybe a quarter of thesize of Rhode Island and Singapore will
fit right inside Washington Beltway.
(02:14):
And we have got aboutonly 5.9 million people.
And part of it also, there are touriststhat comes in and out, is a very
popular tourist destination as well.
And we have been told that we are one ofthe best city for public transportation
building about 7.5 million trips per year.
(02:35):
About 5,800 buses operatingon our roads daily.
And a total of about 400 bus routes.
And the fare is somethingthat is commendable.
We keep the bus fare veryaffordable for people.
Like, as an example, you know,is between $1 and 19 cents to
a maximum of $2 and 26 cents.
(02:58):
And our senior citizen gets concessionand they start at 69 cents for the first
3.2 kilometer, and you'll probably spendonly about $1 and 2 cents the whole day.
Right.
The public transport system iswell integrated between bus and the
trains, so it support each other.
You have one card and you canswitch from train to buses.
(03:20):
Just using the one payment card.
And you have a rail service theretakes about 3.4 million people a day.
The light rail, 210,000, but thebus is the heavy hitter, right?
Yes.
3.8 million passengers a day.
I mean, that's, if you have 5million people there, pretty
much everybody's riding it.
It sounds like the bulk of thepeople ride transit, right?
(03:42):
Yes.
Yeah.
In fact, that is one of thegovernment initiative trying to
make, move people from privatetransport towards public transport.
Right.
You all were one of the first cities inthe world to have congestion charging.
When I was there last time, Jeremydrove me around and showed me, you know,
there's the gantries, here's how it works.
Just like we started inNew York City this year.
(04:02):
Yeah, it's a economic cost.
You know, if you don't manage thetime, there's a economic cost for that.
And I think if we were to be insome of the other Asian city, you
realize that you want to get from oneplace to another place for meeting.
Sometimes for a two kilometerroute, it take you two hours.
So these are really challenges.
So for Singapore, this is not an issue.
(04:23):
If people prefer to drive, theycan take the car, but actually,
public transport will take youto your destination much faster.
So tell us about Singapore itself.
It's like a city state, right?
And it's located close to Malaysia.
So it's probably, if you wannaput it, it's quite in the
center of Southeast Asia, right?
The tip of the entire Asia continent,where it links the Indian Ocean to the
(04:47):
South China Sea, and that's one of themost important trade rounds in the world
from the early turn of the centuries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love the spicy crab there andthe food marts and all that stuff.
The outdoor food market.
I remember going there gettingall kinds of different food that
we did it on the show actually.
Tower Transit though.
Really the name Tower Transit fora lot of people, they may think
(05:10):
of it as British because it kindof started there, I think, right?
And then came into Singapore.
Yes.
The people who started in UK, London.
Well, because of the TowerBridge in London, they started
our transit, London, TTOL.
And then the same people foundedthe Singapore one, where it came
in, they won the first contractto operate in Singapore in 21-5.
(05:34):
And we commence operation in 2016.
So that is part of thegroup Tower Transit.
Here in America, I'm head of I'mthe executive director of a group
called the North American TransitAlliance, which represents the six
largest bus contractors in America.
And, I've noted numerous times thatacross the world, cities and agencies
(05:56):
like Singapore, they actually contractout most, if not all of their public bus
service, the fixed route bus service.
Here in America, it's not that way.
Here in America, a lot of the paratransit,which are the vans for people with
disabilities is contracted out, buta much smaller percentage of the
fixed route buses are contracted out.
Tell us how that works overthere and what are the results?
(06:16):
Actually in Singapore, youknow, everything works right and
it's because of the governmentintervention in centralized planning.
When you have a centralizedplanning system, there's
lesser waste stages, right?
So therefore there is this trainsystem plus a bus system coming
together to ensure that all thepopulation bases are being covered.
(06:40):
Yeah.
And constantly they keep improving.
And because every of the constituencieshas got their member of parliament
right, and they will also fightfor their citizens in the area to
have coverage, I would say everyinch of the land is covered by some
form of public transport services.
Wow.
So through the centralized planning by thegovernment, they will then, well divide so
(07:04):
far, they have divided into 14 packages tocover possibly the geographical area, but
they intercross each other because someof the route are called trunk services,
and some of them are the feeder services.
So the feeder services arethe one that serve the last
mile interest of the commuter.
(07:24):
They finish their train, you know,come from CBD, go home and they
take the feeder service back totheir home in a very short trip.
Whereas at the same time we are alsocovering some part of it are trunk
services that people also preferto take buses rather than train.
So we have got all this coverage,so there's lesser wastage
with this form of planning.
(07:45):
Yeah.
I love how safe it is there too.
I remember being there, and a buddy ofmine that was with me said, that works
there, said Paul, "Literally, I couldgo out into the park at midnight with
my laptop and work and I don't haveto turn around and, you know, worry if
somebody's gonna come up and knock me overthe head." It just, it doesn't happen.
There's just really almost, you know,it's virtually crime free is what he said.
(08:07):
We have got a very strictgun control in Singapore.
So, first of all, life are not a stake.
Secondly, I think over the many yearswe have cleaned up quite a lot of
drug related things, and that reducedthe crime rate and much now things
are very safe over the many years.
Yeah.
Tell us about how long you've beenthere and then talk to us about Tower
(08:30):
Transit, how long they've been there.
Yeah.
I've been in with Tower Transitfor about six and a half years now.
And Tower Transit hasbeen here for nine years.
So in the first two and a halfyears, I was not with them.
And, I took over in2019, beginning of 2019.
I've been with them since then.
(08:52):
And, just a little bit of background,I was a military officer, career
military officer in the SingaporeArmed Forces for many years.
Out there after, I've got a few othercommercial jobs before I landed on
this about six and a half years ago.
Yeah.
That's great.
And you all are part ofthe Kelsian Group, right?
Which is out of Australia.
Yes, yes.
(09:12):
Yeah.
Great people there.
I've had several of them on the show.
I'm very impressed by theoperations of the Kelsian Group.
It was through them I think thatI was able to connect with you.
So it was great.
Talk to us about some of the expansionyou've got now you've got, you've
told us about what you already aredoing there, but aren't you going
into Sentosa Island Bus operations?
(09:33):
As to the expansion, so whatwe do now is that currently
I'm operating two bus packages.
The two bus packages comprise ofabout 806 buses, 60 of our routes.
Some are city directservices and all that.
So first part of the expansion is really,within the bus contracting model every
(09:55):
year there will be tender coming out.
So that part of the organicgrowth path is always there.
And, we have submitted a tenderfor a package called PT220, which
is a Tampines package, resultwill be out in the one two months.
So that is one part of theexpansion within that itself.
The second part of expansion, you haveheard it that we have won the Sentosa
(10:19):
contract to operate three guest servicesroute, five employee services route, and
also a Beach Trend Services in Sentosa.
So that was, that is our first forayinto the commercial bus business,
and that is the second part of thenon-organic growth in that sense
into the commercial transport area.
(10:41):
And there are also other opportunity thatis coming up and they came to us I guess
it's because of our reputation of beingvery reliable and service orientated
operator that people thinks that byhaving us there, you help them in their
branding as well as their operations.
So, there are many opportunity thatcame to us and we think that these
(11:04):
are opportunities for us continueto expand ourself in Singapore.
Yeah.
And where is Sentosa Islandin relationship to Singapore?
Sentosa Island is a,it's a tourism island.
Okay.
South Singapore, right at thesouthern tip of Singapore.
Okay.
And it's all tourist,Universal Studio is there.
(11:26):
Oh wow.
Nice hotel there.
Beach resort.
Yeah.
Very nice.
Yeah, that sounds likea place I'd wanna visit.
It sounds fun.
That's great.
Now, I think it was Glenn, or someonewas telling me about you guys have
some AI enabled safety system training.
And, I'm very interested in thatand people here in the U.S. and I
(11:47):
know everywhere in the world, areinterested in trying to see how AI
can help improve what they're doing.
Tell us about what youguys are doing there.
Well, first and foremost, I think safetyis top priority in the bus business.
And, you know, printed behind our safetyvest is this what called Get Home Safe?
Can you see that?
(12:07):
Get home safe?
Yeah.
So it says get home safe.
Yeah.
On the back of the vest.
Yeah.
I think we are all very obsessedgetting our people home safe as well
as getting the commuter home safe.
So we spend inordinate amount of timelooking at safety related issues, right?
All the way plotting from the timethey get onto the bus till the time
they go home, they get out the bus.
(12:30):
And that is for all age groups fromwheelchair bound people to people that
has got invisible disability right.
To a 90-year-old peopleand things like that.
So that part of it, it covers a wholespectrum of safety and truth to it
(12:51):
is that the one that takes care ofsafety for this is our frontline
staff called our bus captains.
We call them bus captains because they arelike captain, you know, piloting the bus.
And the bus captain has got a heavyresponsibility of ensuring safety.
And, other than, you know,slowing down for the people,
gentle braking and all that.
(13:13):
There are also other road user thatwill affect the way he drives and
speed of the vehicle and all that.
And I would say that although Singaporeansare pretty good drivers, but there are
still errant drivers that cut into thelane, you know, suddenly stopping in
front of you and causing the bus driverto have to put on the emergency brakes.
(13:35):
So what we are doing now is to put ina lot more technology to help that.
And, shape the safetyculture of our bus captains.
You know, in public transport,one of the pressure that we have
is keeping to the time schedule.
If every bus captain have to keeptheir time schedule, they will be very
anxious to do that, and therefore thesafety behavior may be compromised.
(13:57):
We want them to have that peace of mind.
We monitor it at the back end, and ifthey're a bit late, we'll tell them,
say not to worry about it so thatthey can continue to drive safely.
And, we put in a lot more technology.
So one of the area which willaffect driving is driver's fatigue.
So we put in a camera system right infront of them that monitor them, it's
(14:17):
called the effect management system.
The camera can look at them, butthere's an AI behind it because there
are, there are many features insidethere, whether it be closing your
eyes using a hand phones and allthat, but there could also be possibly
false positive, false negative there.
So what we do is that we introduce AIthere to analyze based on the different
(14:37):
factors, to say that this guy is genuinelytired and we should intervene right now.
Yeah, so like if a driver's eyesare closing or he is nodding
off, you can see that right.
Yeah, so we use AI to detect thisfalse positive and to be able to
then address it at the correct time.
So this is one of them.
The other area that we introducein technology is this thing
(15:00):
called
telematics.
So we have got a telematics systemthat discourage them from harsh
breaking, tight cornering, you know,back cornering and things like that.
So there is a light system there,it's like a traffic light system.
If they're okay, they're green ifthey're not, so, okay, they're amber.
If they get red means they havecommitted something that's quite serious.
(15:21):
So we actually give them an
award.
So they get $120
incentive, right.
And, most of them want to get thisincentive, so they drive very carefully.
So in terms they shape their behavior,they brake very gently, you know, they
don't do harsh turnings and all that.
And that makes the commutervery safe and comfortable.
(15:41):
We also installed this startinhibitor where only our bus
captain can start the bus.
There were incidences that other peoplejumped onto a bus and start to drive the
bus away, and, you know, that is quitea, quite a weapon if you can be, right.
Yeah.
So, so these are some of the technologiesthat we introduced inside and some of
the AI technology involve also AI intothe camera that if there are people who
(16:06):
come too close, you know, other roaduser that come too close, blind corners
and all that, you are beat off at thecorrect direction for the bus driver to
alert them of a danger, potential danger.
Yeah.
That's great.
We're talking with, WinstonToh is the managing director
of Tower Transit in Singapore.
Right after this word, we're gonnacome back and ask him about the
culture of the operations thereand also what they have planned for
(16:28):
the future right after this word.
Thanks for listening to theTransit Unplugged Podcast.
We are so glad you're here.
If you're enjoying this show,we know you'll love our other
transit industry programs.
On Transit Unplugged TV, Paul Comfortexplores the food, culture, and
transit systems around the globe.
(16:49):
You get to see everything.
You'll love this show, and everyweek we also offer up the Transit
Unplugged News Minute whereyou can get the latest industry
headlines in less than 60 seconds.
You can find out moreat transitunplugged.com.
Now back to Paul Comfort forthis edition of the award-winning
Transit Unplugged podcast.
(17:10):
We're back with Winston Toh, managingdirector of Tower Transit in Singapore,
one of the main contractors who areproviding bus service with 800 buses
operating on the island of Singapore.
And, Winston, thanksfor being with us today.
Now, you all have been there nineyears, you've mentioned, and you've
got some, some key turning pointsand milestones in the company that
you've had since you've been there.
Talk to us about those.
(17:31):
Well, I use three words to describe that.
It's called 3D three dimension.
No, not three Dimension.
So first D is about, initiallyit's a doubtful future.
Alright?
And second D is
doubling the scale.
The third D is diversification.
So I'll talk about the first D. All right.
That full future, well, I came inat a point in time where my friend
(17:55):
here will call it the sinking shipsituation where our relationship with
the authority and the union wasn't great.
And at that point in time, we onlyhave one contract that's expiring
in about two and a half years time.
So I came in at that point in timeand I basically re-engineered the
company and restructured it a littlebit so that we can operate much better.
(18:18):
And through that period of time,we managed to build up a very open,
transparent culture where people arehappy working like a little family here.
And that was a transitionthat we did very well.
Today, I must say the companyhas got a great culture, with
people happy working here.
The second one isdoubling the scale, right.
(18:40):
At that point in time, we only havemaybe one trip only, only one trip.
If we lose that, everything is gone.
We were very anxious about
that, and we put in for the next tender.
A
good proposal and we managed to win notonly ours back, but also another package.
And that's where
how we expanded to 2 packages from there.
(19:02):
And the third one is diversification,as you know, after we have done that,
anyway, for your information, we havejust got this, these two contract
extended for another two years, right?
To-
Congratulations.
-eight.. Yeah.
And then as part of the diversification,we have now won the Sentosa, bus packages.
And a few other opportunities hascoming out, diversification into the
(19:25):
commercial bus business and also someof the engineering and maintenance
business for buses, which we are,which is part of our core capabilities.
Yeah, so these are the area.
That's great.
And talk to us about thecompany culture there.
You guys are prettymuch staffed up, right?
You've gotten all your driverpositions filled and mechanics and
(19:46):
you are standing out I understand asan employer who, you know, is really
good at attraction and retention.
What is the culture you havethere that allows you to do that?
Well, I guess, I think we haveto make everybody very happy
in working for this company.
Right?
So just a little bit about us is that wehave been Singapore best employer, part
(20:06):
of the Singapore best employer two yearfor this year and last year as well.
And this year we are likelyto get it another one.
Staff engagement is about 80%,which is very high, right?
And a great place to work certificationhas, we have got a work good,
great place to work certification.
I think that part of it have to dowith our people first culture, right?
We take care of an employee very well.
(20:28):
As an example, we, every monthwe have got a free haircut.
Free massages when they comeback, they're tired at the depot.
We give that free massage and haircut.
We have company events likefamily day as well as annual
awards night for them, right?
And, we walk the ground.
The leaders walk the ground every day.
(20:50):
Talk to the drivers.
Yeah.
Feedback and, yeah, so we reachout to them every day and we
adopt a very open culture.
A bus captain can walkinto my office anytime.
That's the kind of culture that we have.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I first started with them, wethink that very important to have
a vision, mission, and values.
We crafted our vision, mission, andvalues, and that is something in which
(21:13):
every one of us embraced it, right?
And, today, even the values arebeing used in their assessments.
So we got a values "cities"C-I-T-I-E-S, and the first one is care.
The second one is integrity.
Third one is teamwork, followed byinnovation, excellence, and safety.
(21:38):
So these values are in everybodyand people are living it not
just hanging by the mouth.
And, these are very important part of it.
And recently we also have something that'sjust done, it's called a service motto.
We want to deliver positiveexperience at every touch point for
our staff as well as a commuter.
(21:58):
So therefore, we came up with thisservice model called People Moving People.
Double meaning people moving peopleis transportation, but people moving,
people in emotional sense of movingpeople through their experience.
And that part of it builds out our companycultures and we think that we have got
(22:18):
very happy employees working for us.
That's great.
So as I mentioned earlier,you all are part of a larger
group called the Kelsian Group.
How does being part of a large,you know, international group
influence your operations hereand maybe you have an example or
two of cross border collaborationand how that's had a real impact.
Yeah.
(22:38):
Most recently we started toimplement electric vehicle,
electric bus in Singapore.
And Kelsian Group started theirimplementation earlier than us and
they have got it in Sydney, right?
And they have got ahundred of buses in Sydney.
So before we actually embark onthat, we actually went over to
(22:58):
Sydney and see how they set up thiswhole thing through that experience.
And LTA used to ask us for recommendationon some of the things and best practices.
And there was a trip that webrought LTA to London to learn
about the London operations, right?
So, and then the other areas, like forexample, during tenders we share data
(23:20):
tasks together, for the tender, right?
And some of the people practices, we shareabout safety practices across the group.
Right.
Got safety moments thatwe share with each other.
Yeah.
That's good.
So let's look ahead then.
What do you see coming next forTower Transit in terms of innovation,
(23:40):
expansion or partnerships?
I think I've talked about the growth,the diversification, and other
things that's coming right ahead isthis subject called autonomous bus.
AV, AV bus, Recently, Ministry ofTransport has started this journey
and they have already decided on someof the blueprint for the AV journey,
(24:03):
starting with, two routes that isrecently tendered out for AV bus.
Another two precinct, onein called Kampongo, right?
They are starting end of the yearand another one in Tinga where we are
operating, starting again for AV bus.
So this is the start of the AV journey,which we want to be part of it, and we
(24:23):
are starting to look at collaboration,partnership, and building capabilities
to be able to do the AV bus work.
Yeah.
Are they looking for like levelfour autonomy, level five?
Do you know, is it fullyautonomous with no driver?
Yes.
In fact, there is already a bus inSentosa that is without driver now.
(24:43):
So the only recently thatthey took out the driver.
So right now there is a busthat's operating without driver.
There are also buses that'soperating in enclosed area.
For example, Ngee Ann Polytecnic.
There are buses that's operatingthere internally without driver.
Not without driver, with safetydriver, but not touching.
Yes.
(25:04):
Not touching the steering wheel, right?
Yeah.
So we are approaching levelfour and level five now.
Okay.
Very good.
People who have never been toSingapore, have some of them have seen
pictures, I'm sure, of some of thebuildings downtown that look amazing.
What's that one building called?
It's got like three tall buildings.
What is it?
Bay Sands.
Yes.
Yeah.
I went to the top of that last timeI was there and I did the the picture
(25:27):
where it looks like the thing ispouring water into your mouth when
you're down in the, in the main, yeah.
I forget the name of that.
Lion.
Lion,
Yeah, that's it, the lion.
Yeah.
So, um, but there's beautifulscenery all around there too.
What would you say is one of yourfavorite scenic bus routes in Singapore?
You have to take service 1 0 6.
Okay.
(25:48):
Service 1 0 6 is one of our bus routethat goes through this scenic route.
You pass through Botanical Garden,which is a World Heritage site.
You pass through OrchardRoad the shopping belt.
They go right through Marina Bay areaand you can see all the scenic places.
So's, anyone come to Singapore,please go and take service.
1 0 6, take 1 0 6 and send busdriver will take care of you.
(26:11):
There you go.
That's great.
And if you could make one improvementto the bus network tomorrow, if
you know the budget wasn't anissue, red tape, what would it be?
I'll tell you the most difficult,and that's what I wish for.
Okay.
It's called service deliverymodel for our bus captains.
The rest of it, I think technology,all this thing you can just
(26:34):
throw inside as it matures.
But the hardest part of it isshaping the culture of the people
to deliver positive services.
And, you know, behind us we just wantto maybe say one day our service can
be like, you know, Singapore Airlines,SQ. We want to be like, you know,
Singapore Airlines, SQ of the buses.
(26:55):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
I love that.
That's great, man.
Yeah.
You know speaking of the airline, that'sa wonderful vision for you to have.
People that visit the Singaporeairport, what's that like big waterfall
like I saw there when I was in.
That thing is fantasticinside the airport.
Jewel.
The jewel.
Yeah, the jewel.
Yeah.
It's been a few years sinceI was there, but yeah.
(27:16):
That is great, man.
Well, Winston, thank you so muchfor spending some time with us
today to talk to me about your
operations there.
And, Glenn Lim, thank you so
much for helping to get this set up.
We appreciate it and we encourage people,
I mean.
I love Singapore.
I would love to come backthere someday and see it all.
It's just a great place and you all havean amazing transit system kind of overseen
(27:36):
by the LTA, the Land Transport Authority.
And congratulations on
the great work you're doing.
I'll be
interested to see how yourAV, your autonomous vehicles
work out there as well.
I know everybody around theworld is looking to that.
Yeah.
Great.
Paul.
Hope to visit you soon.
Yes, now.
Alright.
Thanks again guys.
(28:00):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Transit Unplugged, the world's
number one transit executive podcast.
I'm Julie Gates, executiveproducer of the podcast.
Many thanks to the teamthat makes this show happen.
Host and producer, PaulComfort, producer Chris O'Keefe,
editor Patrick Emile, associateproducer Cyndi Raskin, and consultants
(28:21):
Dan Meisner and Jonas Woos at Bumper.
Transit Unplugged is beingbrought to you by Modaxo.
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