June 11, 2025 • 24 mins
When most people think of Detroit, they think cars. But behind the Motor City moniker is a layered, multi-agency public transit system—and Robert Cramer is helping connect the dots.
As Executive Director of Transit for the City of Detroit, Cramer leads both DDOT and Detroit Transportation Corporation, operator of the iconic elevated People Mover. In this episode, Paul Comfort joins Robert for a ride downtown and a deep dive into Detroit’s evolving mobility story.
You'll hear how:
- The People Mover went fare-free—and what happened next
- Detroit is coordinating between suburban, city, and regional agencies
- Transit plays a role in the city's ongoing revitalization
- Cramer’s planning background shaped his vision for service, connectivity, and rider experience
- Plus: the story behind Detroit’s international connections with Canada, sports district access, and what it takes to lead transit in the heart of America’s car capital.
Credits:
Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo
Creator, Host, + Producer: Paul Comfort
Executive Producer: Julie Gates
Producer + Newsletter Editor: Chris O'Keeffe
Associate Producer: Cyndi Raskin
Special thanks to:
Brand Design: Tina Olagundoye
Social Media: Tatyana Mechkarova
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
What do you think of Detroit?
When you think of Detroit, what doyou think of Motor City, Motown,
but do you ever think about theirpublic transportation today?
After this interview, you will.
I'm Paul Comfort and this is TransitUnplugged, the number one podcast
for mass transit around the world.
On today's episode, Iinterview Robert Kramer.
He is executive director of theDetroit Department of Transportation.
(00:30):
And he's chairman of the boardand acting CEO of the people mover
elevated rail system around the city.
I went to Detroit a month or two agoand I mean, I had a fantastic time.
I didn't know hardlyanything about Detroit.
I've only been to the airport.
I didn't know it was rightacross the river from Canada.
And you actually looked south tosee Canada, uh, in Detroit and.
(00:51):
I didn't know about their fantasticthree layer transit operations there
with the RTA and SMART with my buddyDwight, and then here the De Detroit
Department of Transportation andthe People Mover elevated three mile
loop around the city, which is free.
I. We went there, we filmed anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv,
which is fascinating, and it's onthe air this week on , YouTube.
(01:13):
You're gonna need to, after you listento this podcast, you're gonna want
to go right there and see everythingyou've heard Robert talk about.
He's become a good pal of mine now.
We hung around and he showed me allkinds of amazing things in the city.
I was very impressed.
You know, uh, the downtown areais under re big time renovation.
The transit service serves itwell and is getting even better
under the helm of Robert Kramer.
(01:35):
Listen to this podcast and comeaway amazed at the resurgence
of the city of Detroit.
Paul Comfort (01:44):
Alright.
I'm in Detroit Motor City.
I'm with Robert Kramer, whois CEO of a lot of trans.
Here in the city and we'resitting on the people mover.
Robert Cramer (01:51):
Yep.
Uh, we are, we are here, uh,people mover elevated three
mile, uh, downtown circulator.
Uh, we're almost 38 years old.
And, um, it's really kind of thecenter of the hub, the hub and
spoke system for the entire region.
And also connects with, uh, DDOTand Smart, which are the, , city
and suburban bus providers.
The streetcar goes right through the,uh, the edge of our, uh, alignment
(02:13):
here and, uh, with direct, uh, hotels,convention centers, parks, but also.
A growing number of, uh, residentialbuildings and uses downtown, , people
who are really through all ofthose changes continues to be
a great asset to get go around.
And it's free.
It is free.
Yeah.
, Last year we had our first year of, uh,fair free and, uh, we saw 80% increase
(02:35):
in ridership from the year before, whichwas our first full year open after COVID.
But really what we saw, we havea original, fair, fair equipment
system and, , not only the cost,but the fact that you could.
Transfer from other modes and youalso couldn't use any, uh, mobile
payment or anything electronicwas a barrier for everyone.
Yeah.
In all different ways.
(02:55):
And so we had anopportunity to test it out.
We actually got, uh, created a newsponsorship program, signed up a
sponsor for the whole year, andbasically that made sure that at least
our first year was budget neutral andallowed U.S. to kind of test it out.
And like I said, theresults were fantastic.
Who was the sponsor, , priority waste.
They're, they've signed up tocontinue for this year as well.
Um, but they, you know, they,they signed up for U.S. to
(03:17):
have, um, to try out the system.
They believed in, uh, kindawhere we were headed as a, as a
transportation mobility option.
And, uh, we're really,we're grateful for that.
So you'll see their yellow brandingactually right outside the window here.
There's the, there's a badgewe have on each station.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And that allowed U.S. to try it out.
And like I said, theresults were, were great.
And really, um, even just froma business case perspective,
(03:38):
if we were ever gonna start.
Are collecting fears.
Again, our estimate is we needto invest about $5 million to
replace the fair collection system,which is like five year return on
investment just to Yes, like the dog.
Yeah.
So it's a pretty easy,uh, a pretty easy case.
And like I said, it's been great as far asreally helping U.S. expand the influence
and benefits we have for the city.
Paul Comfort (03:57):
And it's all elevated.
Robert Cramer (03:58):
Yeah.
Everything is, is up in the air.
Uh, provides opportunity for alot of, uh, transit related puns.
You know, we're, we're above everyoneelse, all that sort of thing.
But it really is, um, we, we, wedid a, . Customers, , satisfaction
survey this past summer, you know,onboard in person engagements, and
we found, , quite a few riders thatwere riding with no destination.
So if you think about it, it's,it's just, it's three miles.
(04:20):
15 minutes gets you one trip around.
I've been on board with people from outof town that will ride around once looking
out one side, and then they get up andthey move to the other side and look
out the other window and ride it around.
It's a great way to see basically allof the downtown, , you're, you're along
the river looking down, uh, to our part,uh, our, uh, neighbors to the south.
Canada, you're visiting all ofthe districts around the downtown
(04:41):
area for free, and you can kindof scout out lay of the land.
You know, it's like a roundabout, right?
The worst you can do is have to ridearound until you get to your stop.
And it's just something that,you know, uh, it is, can be
beneficial in so many ways.
It's really a great economicdevelopment tool, but also really
does, , serve to connect, , transitand mobility options for everybody.
Paul Comfort (05:01):
Last night we were here, you showed U.S.
around downtown.
Talk to U.S. some about how the down.
Town is so unique.
, The sport teams are all close by.
You've got, uh, it's just,
it's pretty cool the way it's laid out.
Robert Cramer (05:13):
Yeah.
Downtown Detroit, is really avery unique, interesting place.
Of course, founded in 1701, sothere's a long history here is a
French, uh, fur trading post actually.
But just right where they landed onthe Detroit River is, is in Heart
Plaza, which we were yesterday.
Yeah, there's a marker there.
Yeah.
We went and saw it.
Yeah.
And, and just, you know, up fromthere, you, you've got, uh, campus
Marsh is kind of the center of townFrom there, all of the, the paths.
(05:34):
Radiate out, uh, used to be, uh, tradingtrails turned into, uh, major spokes that
go out to not only all, all corners ofthe city, but also to all of the suburbs
that kind of surround the, the metro area.
So downtown, uh, a pretty compact areahas a similar layout to Washington, DC
where you have, you have hubs and spokes.
All the streets are diagonal.
(05:56):
There's nothing that'snorth, south, east, west.
And that was part of the, thejudge, uh, Augustus Woodward
plan after the fire of 1805.
Then only stick around fora little bit, so we need.
Get to Grand Circus Park.
That's as far as it goes.
From there, it turns into moreof a traditional, , grid pattern.
, But just downtown there's, there'stons of great views because you
have all of the streets at differentangles and then everything oriented
(06:16):
toward the river on, on Woodward too,
Paul Comfort (06:19):
and,
uh, you're right next to Canada.
Talk about that.
I mean, I can see Canadafrom my hotel room.
Robert Cramer (06:25):
I've got history even in my family of people immigrating
from, from Europe through Canada.
There's, there's people whohave, , families that are supposed
to split on both sides of the border.
There's quite a few people,especially, um, especially
in healthcare and automotive.
There's a lot of people who live in Canadaor residents there and actually commute,
, to the U.S. every day for, for their jobs.
Paul Comfort (06:43):
And
you've got a tunnel and a bridge.
Robert Cramer (06:45):
Yeah, we have a, a tunnel, uh, which was built first, but
both, both over a hundred years ago.
, The Bridge Ambassador Bridge isbuilt in the twenties and, uh, we're
closing in on opening the Gordy HowBridge, which is a brand new bridge.
It's a little bitfarther down , the river.
But, , Detroit is by some measurethe busiest, , international
crossing, certainly with Canada.
(07:06):
, I was actually talking tosomeone yesterday that the.
Estimate they have is onthe Ambassador Bridge.
They have somewhere between 11 to 13,000trucks every day that cross the bridge.
A lot of those parts, of course, it's kindof a sensitive topic these days because
that's those parts that are actuallymoving back and forth, be across the
border as they go through the differentstages of manufacturing and engineering,
(07:27):
but a very busy and important crossing.
But there's also a lot of shared historyand culture between the two sides as well.
Paul Comfort (07:34):
And you've got the four major sports teams
all within a stone's throw,
right?
Robert Cramer (07:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, the only major city that'sgot the, we have the, the Red Wings,
which are NHL, the pistons are NBALions, NFL, tigers, MLB, all those
are within three facilities that arewithin a half a mile of each other.
Paul Comfort (07:52):
That's amazing, man.
Robert Cramer (07:53):
Yeah, so if you think about, you know, it's, it's uh, from
a traffic and mobility, , managementperspective, there's a lot of effort
and really it is a unique day when thereisn't something going on downtown between
those venues and the convention center.
Yeah.
We're going back rightnow, the, uh, Hudson.
Site.
So this is the , former, , largestor second largest department store in
the world, has been redeveloped and isclose to opening, , a tower that will
(08:16):
be the second tallest in Michigan.
And then a platform building withevent space that's gonna be the
new headquarters of General Motors.
This is something developed by, uh,uh, Dan Gilbert, bedrock Properties
part, the Quicken Loans family.
, Really an incredible asset of thecity and right next to our Cadillac
Center people mover station.
So there's work going on rightnow about how we could improve.
(08:36):
, The station and the, the sidewalk andthe area around it to make sure we
have like a really, , well designedexperience to connect that station,
potentially enhance it into a mobilityhub with, uh, smart curb space
and autonomous vehicles and stuff.
But it's right in the shadow ofthis new building and a great
opportunity for the people who wereto kind of grow into the future.
. Paul Comfort (08:57):
And you were mentioning that this system got started in 87.
Yeah.
So have you had rehabs done?
Robert Cramer (09:04):
Well?
We've got a, a really aggressiveprogram as far as the inspecting
and maintaining the guideway.
So it's all concrete, super structure.
, Inch by inch, the whole system.
It's in great shape.
The cars are original.
We've actually, uh, we haven't doneany major overhauls, but we're actually
have purchased Toronto ScarboroughLine in Toronto, which just closed,
was a Canadian sister system to U.S.
(09:26):
built basically samefactory, same timeframe.
They made a decisionto close their system.
They, they needed moretrack investment that.
We had taken care of, but theyhad invested more in their cars.
We've actually purchased their carsthat have had a midlife overhaul.
We're making some adjustments to those.
And, uh, we're aiming the next 12to 15 months we're actually gonna
replace our fleet with their cars.
Paul Comfort (09:48):
So Robert, we just switched now from your people mover to the bus.
At which station were we at?
Robert Cramer (09:53):
Uh, we were at the Rosa Parks Transit Center, which is
our, uh, main, , bus transfer center.
It's, , right adjacent to twopeople mover stops, uh, downtown.
So it provides a lot of, uh, opportunitiesfor connections and, uh, it is our,
it's our largest, uh, transit facility.
. Paul Comfort (10:08):
So Detroit is, um, a little.
Complex in how I would say thestructure of public transportation
agents use their design.
Walk me through how it works here.
Robert Cramer (10:17):
Sure.
So, , RTA, which is the RegionalTransit Authority, they're a state
enabled, , authority, and they are theones that handle, uh, the state and
federal funding that comes to the region.
Uh, they do long, long term planning.
Uh, they, worked on some initiatives, andalso recently they took over operation
of the Q line, which is the street car.
. Then you have, uh, operators.
(10:39):
Ann Arbor is actually part of the RTA,even though it's a separate UCA, so
Ann Arbor's an operator, but then inthe, in the Detroit region, you've
got, uh, smart, which is the suburbanbus agency, also a direct recipient.
You've got ddot, which is the, is a citydepartment, , fixed route and paratransit.
And that's where you're director?
Correct.
(10:59):
That's I'm director of, uh, of ddot.
And then, uh, you have, uh,people mover, which is owned
and operated by a, a public.
Corporation essentially.
That's I'm the CEO of.
So it's really, um, and each one ofthose agencies has different funding.
So DI and the People mover get,uh, city General Fund dollars
that support it as a subsidy.
(11:19):
Uh, SMART has a smart, actuallyhas a, uh, a, uh, property tax
millage that funds their operations.
, And then, you know, the, the Qline and all the agencies get
a, a good, good amount of, uh,state and federal support as well.
Paul Comfort (11:34):
And then because.
As you're so close to Canada,it's right on the river here.
You told me you have a bus servicecoming over here from Canada.
Robert Cramer (11:41):
Yeah, transit.
Windsor currently runs, uh,the tunnel bus, which is, goes
through the tunnel of course.
, And is, uh, a commute option really.
There's a, like I mentionedbefore, there's a number of people
who live in Canada, uh, thatwork over here in the States.
Um, and then they also run some extraspecial event service because, you
know, there's a decent number of uh,uh, you know, Detroit sports fans
(12:01):
that are across the border as well.
. Paul Comfort: And all those, uh.
Sports teams.
You mentioned earlier, the fourmajor leagues, you've got good
access to them by transit, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, smart and DDOT bothhave, , quality service on Woodward,
which kind of runs right throughthe middle of all of them, Q Line.
The Streetcar also has a stop that's,uh, the first, , transit only lane
(12:24):
in the state, uh, is there to helpget through some of that congestion.
And then the people mover has astop that's, uh, about two or three
blocks from all of them as well.
In Grand Circus Park and Broadway areboth kind of nearby, so tons of options,
whether you're commuting in on transit,we exit through the rear door, or
whether you're, driving down in parkingand then looking to circulate around.
(12:45):
, There's a lot of options to,uh, to get around the downtown.
Oh, there's also Mogo,I forgot to mention.
Oh yeah.
So Mogo was a, a non-profit thatwas started, , a number of years
ago that has stations all aroundthe downtown and Midtown, which
is kind of farther up Woodward.
Um, and it's a great option.
It's the, the, uh.
Uh, fixed stations, so you'vegotta ride and, and park the bike
at a station when you go around.
(13:06):
, But really has been, uh, an incredibleasset and it's something that's also
linked in with all those other optionsto get people around the downtown.
And recently it started expandingnorth, um, into some of the
entering suburbs as well.
Paul Comfort (13:18):
That's
Robert Cramer (13:18):
great.
Paul Comfort (13:19):
We'll be right back and Robert I'm gonna ask you to
talk about your, personal careerwhen we come back this work.
Hey friends, it's Paul Comforthost of Transit Unplugged, and I've
got some exciting news to share.
Did you know that Transit Unpluggedis now a hybrid podcast experience?
That's right.
We're not just in your ears anymore.
We're on your screens too.
(13:40):
Each week on YouTube now you'llfind a brand new version of our show
featuring a video intro from me,plus behind the scenes photos and
visuals of our guests when we recordinterviews on location in person.
From transit centers towaterfronts and boardrooms,
we're taking you there visually.
Adding a whole new layer to thestorytelling and the response
so far has been amazing.
(14:02):
Thousands of people are already watchingand listening on YouTube and most
get this are watching on their TVs.
So if you haven't yet, take amoment to check U.S. out on YouTube.
Just search TransitUnplug podcast on YouTube.
Then hit subscribe and experience theshow each week in a whole new way.
We're making transit media more dynamic,more accessible, and more fun than ever.
(14:25):
And I'd love to haveyou along for the ride.
Now let's get back to the conversation.
And now we're back with Robert Kramer,who is, uh, tell U.S. your full title.
, Robert Cramer (14:35):
So I'm the Executive Director of Transit
for the City of Detroit, and thatincludes the role of director of
ddot, which is City Department.
And I'm the CEO of DetroitTransportation Corporation, which is
the public, uh, public corporationthat owns and operates the people.
. Paul Comfort (14:49):
And how did you get, tell U.S. about your background.
So how'd you get to this joband how long have you been here?
, Robert Cramer (14:54):
So this in my.
Current expanded role.
This is my, uh, what month is it?
April?
This is my fourth month.
Okay.
I started right afterthe first of the year.
, before that I was at just thepeople mover, uh, as general manager
for about two and a half years.
And prior to that, I worked at,uh, smart, which is the suburban
provider for over 10 years.
There I was, , acting gm DeputyGeneral Manager and actually started
(15:17):
there in the grants department.
, Prior to that, , my education and, uh.
First career was in, uh, communityand transportation planning.
So graduated from Michigan StateUniversity and worked for a small
consulting firm for about seven years.
And we did a combination there of,uh, community of zoning and, and site
plans and stuff all the way up to,and especially working with, , the
(15:38):
state and county agencies on,, access management transit corridor
planning, , and, uh, you know, trafficimprovement, uh, sort of activities.
, And then that, saw an opportunity.
To get smart, , in grants was kindof a little bit different track, uh,
but uh, allowed me to kind of take,take all the stuff I learned and
build on it in the public sector.
(15:58):
And, uh, then that's led one thing ledto another, to this great opportunity.
Paul Comfort (16:03):
And, and, uh, how has Mike l Oglesby involved in all
this, our buddy from now in Tucson?
Robert Cramer (16:08):
Well, so, um, when Mikel came up to, uh, ddot, it was right
around the time of the pandemic, whichis obviously, just a, a crazy time.
For everyone, but especially for transit.
So he joined, , DDOT around that timeand, um, that time more than ever.
It was just super important to have thatcoordination and partnership between
(16:30):
transit agencies, not just to supportthe riders and the drivers in particular,
who were really, um, put in a, um, justa incredible situation to be out on the
road as really, uh, frontline, , staff,but also to support each other as we.
To work through the different challenges.
So I, I remember, uh, it was kindof a fascinating, uh, there's always
(16:53):
been different factions and, andagencies and I think that was really
opportunity to pull all of U.S. together.
We actually had for, for quitea while, probably a couple
months, there was a nightly call.
, The city, it was a ddotSmart, the Streetcar.
Uh, we had the state, we had a coupleof the other, um, major agencies and
all of U.S. would get on the call.
It was either eight or nine atnight and basically like, okay.
(17:16):
How did we survive that day?
What can we do to support each other?
How did you get the, uh, the touchless,uh, temperature check kiosks?
Remember, we, we, we foundsome of those and then kind
of helped everyone order them.
Paul Comfort (17:27):
Yeah.
Robert Cramer (17:28):
Or, uh, you know, how did you deal with the COVID policy?
How did you deal with the, uh, uh,sick workforce or, uh, check and
driver issues, whatever it mightbe, uh, passenger boarding policies.
So that was really, uh, Mikel came onin the middle of that and, and he and I.
Um, kind of hit it off to reallycoordinating and supporting
(17:49):
each other in the two systems.
And, um, from there, uh, there wasan opportunity that came up, uh,
when he was in this role that I'min now at ddot, uh, where he, he, he
kind of, uh, talked to me about anopport achievement, the people mover.
And, um, Jefferson, it sounded likea great challenge and something that
would be, uh, exciting and interesting.
(18:09):
It could make a big impact.
So I, um, you know, made that move and,, really it's been an incredible experience.
Stuff.
. Paul Comfort: How about your personal life?
Any, uh, any, uh, updateon that where you're at?
Married kids, dogs, music.
. Robert Cramer (18:24):
Uh, yeah.
I'm, , married, , have, uh, four children.
, One dog, , currently was two dogsuntil recently, but, um, yeah, one dog.
Uh, what kind of dog?
, We do rescue dogs.
Okay.
So she's, uh, we did the oldsend the swab over and she's, uh.
An eighth of eight different things.
Okay.
Yeah, that very helpful.
Yes.
A mud, she, she looks,yeah, a mud for sure.
(18:46):
Um, kind of has a great Pyrenees kind ofcoat and look to her, but she's, she's
only about 65 or 70 pounds, so it'skind of, but anyway, uh, that, that's my
actually, uh, as my, my nightly release.
, I take the, take the dog on a longwalk, , around, , around where I live.
And, , that's a good, good release.
And of course, uh, she likes it as well.
So, um, yeah, that's, uh,my, uh, youngest, child.
(19:07):
My son is, uh, in college.
And, um,
Paul Comfort (19:12):
everyone, everything's good.
Can't complain.
That's good.
And if you don't mind me askingor saying, you look great, you've
lost a lot of weight recently.
You're my new hero.
Robert Cramer (19:19):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
There's, there's, uh, you know, somethingto be said for, a low carb lifestyle.
Let's put it that, I know we've, we'vetalked about that a little bit, but, uh,
yeah, it's, it's, it's really important,you know, um, even going to the CEO's
conference, uh, it is important to, to.
Realize that there's a lot, a lotriding on how successful that we can
(19:39):
be as leaders, but also to make surethat we can support each other as well.
I think, you know, taking care of ourourselves, you know, mental and physical
wellbeing is, is really important.
It is,
Paul Comfort (19:48):
yeah.
I just think I mentioned to you like,just about less than a year ago, I,
I really decided I have to focus onmy personal life and not kind of just
react and respond to it, but be theauthor of my, what my personal life
is gonna be, you know, and so like younow I'm, I'm doing a walk every day.
Know every morning, usually forthe last nine months, unless it's
(20:09):
pouring down rain, uh, and tryingto eat better too with low carbs.
I've lost 20 and got another 50 to go.
But, uh, you're right.
I, I wanted to comment on it becausea lot of guys and gals that are
in this role that I've been in,and you are in currently a CEO,
it takes a toll on you physically.
You don't get to eat, right.
I mean, I used to, you know, I wasworking 12 hour days basically, right?
(20:29):
Leave the house at seven in the morning,get home at seven at night combo.
Yeah.
And um, you know, sometimesyou just eat whatever.
Fast food you have toget and all that stuff.
Yeah,
Robert Cramer (20:38):
yeah.
Absolutely.
It, it's, um, but I think what makes it,as I'm sure you experienced too, uh, as
a, as a public service, uh, and knowingthat there's not only so many people at
the organization that you're at that arecounting on you to support them and help
them and, and help them have the toolsthey need to do their job every day.
(21:00):
But it's even more important because theirability to do their job impacts literally
tens of thousands of people every day.
Paul Comfort (21:05):
Yeah.
Robert Cramer (21:05):
So.
It's, uh, you do have to becareful that you're, you know,
uh, taking care of yourself.
, But I think, you know, transit asan industry, , it's easy to get up
and come to work every day, even onthe tough days because you know that
kind of impact you have on people.
Paul Comfort (21:19):
Isn't that wonderful?
I love that about what we do.
We pretty cool.
Yeah.
We're, we are helping and I love,you know, I'm all about paratransit.
Personally.
I've spent a lot of my career in that.
Helping people that don'thave other options is big.
Robert Cramer (21:31):
Yeah.
I think, , like you said,whether it's paratransit, but.
But even just connecting people tohealthcare, to employment, to give
them the freedom and, and supportthat they need to be able to have a
high quality of life without havingto, to figure out a way to afford it.
This incredible cost ofowning and operating a car.
Um, if, if they're able to do that,um, it's just so important to the, the
(21:52):
quality of life in our communities.
Paul Comfort (21:54):
Yeah, and I guess that'd be my last question.
, And that is, so we're inMotor City here, right?
This is the birthplace of theAmerican automobile industry really.
And yet you've got astrong transit system.
Robert Cramer (22:04):
Yeah, we've, we've got a lot of, , we've got a lot of support.
I think we've got a long way to go.
, And, and any transit systemhopefully would say that they could
always do, do more and improve.
, But starting with the coordination,you know, we mentioned all these
different agencies, sometimes thatfeels like it's counterproductive.
But I think that Jefferson, the importantthing is to coordinate those services
(22:27):
and think about the customer experience.
That's something that really, for me.
Personally, the People mover.
The People mover kind of forced me tothink about that more than I had at smart.
Really focusing on what are thethings, the little things and big
things you can do to make the customerexperience the best it can be.
And when you do that, then youbuild the quality of the service.
(22:48):
It's more convenient, it's attractive,which then makes it better.
And it just, all that builds on itself.
But, but that's really startingwith what are the things we can do
from a customer service standpoint.
Thinking about it that way,almost, almost in the hospitality
realm, what are the things we cando to really make this an asset?
We're never gonna be able to almostwelcome board, almost gonna be
(23:09):
able to drive faster than someonein their own personal automobile
going directly from space to space.
That doesn't mean that we can't, , youknow, make the, the experience and
the service and the affordabilityand the connectivity can still
be a great asset to people.
If we really think focus onthat part is making sure we
think about customer experience.
(23:29):
I. Every day.
Julie Gates (23:38):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode
of the Transit Unplugged Podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
My name is Julie Gates.
I'm the executive producer of theshow, and our goal is to create
programs that promote the great thingsgoing on in the transit industry
by providing you with behind thescenes access with industry executive
leadership so we can work together tofind innovative industry solutions.
(23:59):
We would love to have you be a partof the Transit Unplugged community by
having you sign up for our newsletter.
Head to the show notes to find the link.
Thanks for listening to Transit Unpluggedwith Paul Comfort, our favorite transit
evangelist, and we'll catch you next week.
Thanks for tuning in.
What do you think of Detroit?
When you think of Detroit, what doyou think of Motor City, Motown,
but do you ever think about theirpublic transportation today?
After this interview, you will.
I'm Paul Comfort and this is TransitUnplugged, the number one podcast
for mass transit around the world.
On today's episode, Iinterview Robert Kramer.
He is executive director of theDetroit Department of Transportation.
(00:30):
And he's chairman of the boardand acting CEO of the people mover
elevated rail system around the city.
I went to Detroit a month or two agoand I mean, I had a fantastic time.
I didn't know hardlyanything about Detroit.
I've only been to the airport.
I didn't know it was rightacross the river from Canada.
And you actually looked south tosee Canada, uh, in Detroit and.
(00:51):
I didn't know about their fantasticthree layer transit operations there
with the RTA and SMART with my buddyDwight, and then here the De Detroit
Department of Transportation andthe People Mover elevated three mile
loop around the city, which is free.
I. We went there, we filmed anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv,
which is fascinating, and it's onthe air this week on , YouTube.
(01:13):
You're gonna need to, after you listento this podcast, you're gonna want
to go right there and see everythingyou've heard Robert talk about.
He's become a good pal of mine now.
We hung around and he showed me allkinds of amazing things in the city.
I was very impressed.
You know, uh, the downtown areais under re big time renovation.
The transit service serves itwell and is getting even better
under the helm of Robert Kramer.
(01:35):
Listen to this podcast and comeaway amazed at the resurgence
of the city of Detroit.
Paul Comfort (01:44):
Alright.
I'm in Detroit Motor City.
I'm with Robert Kramer, whois CEO of a lot of trans.
Here in the city and we'resitting on the people mover.
Robert Cramer (01:51):
Yep.
Uh, we are, we are here, uh,people mover elevated three
mile, uh, downtown circulator.
Uh, we're almost 38 years old.
And, um, it's really kind of thecenter of the hub, the hub and
spoke system for the entire region.
And also connects with, uh, DDOTand Smart, which are the, , city
and suburban bus providers.
The streetcar goes right through the,uh, the edge of our, uh, alignment
(02:13):
here and, uh, with direct, uh, hotels,convention centers, parks, but also.
A growing number of, uh, residentialbuildings and uses downtown, , people
who are really through all ofthose changes continues to be
a great asset to get go around.
And it's free.
It is free.
Yeah.
, Last year we had our first year of, uh,fair free and, uh, we saw 80% increase
(02:35):
in ridership from the year before, whichwas our first full year open after COVID.
But really what we saw, we havea original, fair, fair equipment
system and, , not only the cost,but the fact that you could.
Transfer from other modes and youalso couldn't use any, uh, mobile
payment or anything electronicwas a barrier for everyone.
Yeah.
In all different ways.
(02:55):
And so we had anopportunity to test it out.
We actually got, uh, created a newsponsorship program, signed up a
sponsor for the whole year, andbasically that made sure that at least
our first year was budget neutral andallowed U.S. to kind of test it out.
And like I said, theresults were fantastic.
Who was the sponsor, , priority waste.
They're, they've signed up tocontinue for this year as well.
Um, but they, you know, they,they signed up for U.S. to
(03:17):
have, um, to try out the system.
They believed in, uh, kindawhere we were headed as a, as a
transportation mobility option.
And, uh, we're really,we're grateful for that.
So you'll see their yellow brandingactually right outside the window here.
There's the, there's a badgewe have on each station.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And that allowed U.S. to try it out.
And like I said, theresults were, were great.
And really, um, even just froma business case perspective,
(03:38):
if we were ever gonna start.
Are collecting fears.
Again, our estimate is we needto invest about $5 million to
replace the fair collection system,which is like five year return on
investment just to Yes, like the dog.
Yeah.
So it's a pretty easy,uh, a pretty easy case.
And like I said, it's been great as far asreally helping U.S. expand the influence
and benefits we have for the city.
Paul Comfort (03:57):
And it's all elevated.
Robert Cramer (03:58):
Yeah.
Everything is, is up in the air.
Uh, provides opportunity for alot of, uh, transit related puns.
You know, we're, we're above everyoneelse, all that sort of thing.
But it really is, um, we, we, wedid a, . Customers, , satisfaction
survey this past summer, you know,onboard in person engagements, and
we found, , quite a few riders thatwere riding with no destination.
So if you think about it, it's,it's just, it's three miles.
(04:20):
15 minutes gets you one trip around.
I've been on board with people from outof town that will ride around once looking
out one side, and then they get up andthey move to the other side and look
out the other window and ride it around.
It's a great way to see basically allof the downtown, , you're, you're along
the river looking down, uh, to our part,uh, our, uh, neighbors to the south.
Canada, you're visiting all ofthe districts around the downtown
(04:41):
area for free, and you can kindof scout out lay of the land.
You know, it's like a roundabout, right?
The worst you can do is have to ridearound until you get to your stop.
And it's just something that,you know, uh, it is, can be
beneficial in so many ways.
It's really a great economicdevelopment tool, but also really
does, , serve to connect, , transitand mobility options for everybody.
Paul Comfort (05:01):
Last night we were here, you showed U.S.
around downtown.
Talk to U.S. some about how the down.
Town is so unique.
, The sport teams are all close by.
You've got, uh, it's just,
it's pretty cool the way it's laid out.
Robert Cramer (05:13):
Yeah.
Downtown Detroit, is really avery unique, interesting place.
Of course, founded in 1701, sothere's a long history here is a
French, uh, fur trading post actually.
But just right where they landed onthe Detroit River is, is in Heart
Plaza, which we were yesterday.
Yeah, there's a marker there.
Yeah.
We went and saw it.
Yeah.
And, and just, you know, up fromthere, you, you've got, uh, campus
Marsh is kind of the center of townFrom there, all of the, the paths.
(05:34):
Radiate out, uh, used to be, uh, tradingtrails turned into, uh, major spokes that
go out to not only all, all corners ofthe city, but also to all of the suburbs
that kind of surround the, the metro area.
So downtown, uh, a pretty compact areahas a similar layout to Washington, DC
where you have, you have hubs and spokes.
All the streets are diagonal.
(05:56):
There's nothing that'snorth, south, east, west.
And that was part of the, thejudge, uh, Augustus Woodward
plan after the fire of 1805.
Then only stick around fora little bit, so we need.
Get to Grand Circus Park.
That's as far as it goes.
From there, it turns into moreof a traditional, , grid pattern.
, But just downtown there's, there'stons of great views because you
have all of the streets at differentangles and then everything oriented
(06:16):
toward the river on, on Woodward too,
Paul Comfort (06:19):
and,
uh, you're right next to Canada.
Talk about that.
I mean, I can see Canadafrom my hotel room.
Robert Cramer (06:25):
I've got history even in my family of people immigrating
from, from Europe through Canada.
There's, there's people whohave, , families that are supposed
to split on both sides of the border.
There's quite a few people,especially, um, especially
in healthcare and automotive.
There's a lot of people who live in Canadaor residents there and actually commute,
, to the U.S. every day for, for their jobs.
Paul Comfort (06:43):
And
you've got a tunnel and a bridge.
Robert Cramer (06:45):
Yeah, we have a, a tunnel, uh, which was built first, but
both, both over a hundred years ago.
, The Bridge Ambassador Bridge isbuilt in the twenties and, uh, we're
closing in on opening the Gordy HowBridge, which is a brand new bridge.
It's a little bitfarther down , the river.
But, , Detroit is by some measurethe busiest, , international
crossing, certainly with Canada.
(07:06):
, I was actually talking tosomeone yesterday that the.
Estimate they have is onthe Ambassador Bridge.
They have somewhere between 11 to 13,000trucks every day that cross the bridge.
A lot of those parts, of course, it's kindof a sensitive topic these days because
that's those parts that are actuallymoving back and forth, be across the
border as they go through the differentstages of manufacturing and engineering,
(07:27):
but a very busy and important crossing.
But there's also a lot of shared historyand culture between the two sides as well.
Paul Comfort (07:34):
And you've got the four major sports teams
all within a stone's throw,
right?
Robert Cramer (07:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, the only major city that'sgot the, we have the, the Red Wings,
which are NHL, the pistons are NBALions, NFL, tigers, MLB, all those
are within three facilities that arewithin a half a mile of each other.
Paul Comfort (07:52):
That's amazing, man.
Robert Cramer (07:53):
Yeah, so if you think about, you know, it's, it's uh, from
a traffic and mobility, , managementperspective, there's a lot of effort
and really it is a unique day when thereisn't something going on downtown between
those venues and the convention center.
Yeah.
We're going back rightnow, the, uh, Hudson.
Site.
So this is the , former, , largestor second largest department store in
the world, has been redeveloped and isclose to opening, , a tower that will
(08:16):
be the second tallest in Michigan.
And then a platform building withevent space that's gonna be the
new headquarters of General Motors.
This is something developed by, uh,uh, Dan Gilbert, bedrock Properties
part, the Quicken Loans family.
, Really an incredible asset of thecity and right next to our Cadillac
Center people mover station.
So there's work going on rightnow about how we could improve.
(08:36):
, The station and the, the sidewalk andthe area around it to make sure we
have like a really, , well designedexperience to connect that station,
potentially enhance it into a mobilityhub with, uh, smart curb space
and autonomous vehicles and stuff.
But it's right in the shadow ofthis new building and a great
opportunity for the people who wereto kind of grow into the future.
. Paul Comfort (08:57):
And you were mentioning that this system got started in 87.
Yeah.
So have you had rehabs done?
Robert Cramer (09:04):
Well?
We've got a, a really aggressiveprogram as far as the inspecting
and maintaining the guideway.
So it's all concrete, super structure.
, Inch by inch, the whole system.
It's in great shape.
The cars are original.
We've actually, uh, we haven't doneany major overhauls, but we're actually
have purchased Toronto ScarboroughLine in Toronto, which just closed,
was a Canadian sister system to U.S.
(09:26):
built basically samefactory, same timeframe.
They made a decisionto close their system.
They, they needed moretrack investment that.
We had taken care of, but theyhad invested more in their cars.
We've actually purchased their carsthat have had a midlife overhaul.
We're making some adjustments to those.
And, uh, we're aiming the next 12to 15 months we're actually gonna
replace our fleet with their cars.
Paul Comfort (09:48):
So Robert, we just switched now from your people mover to the bus.
At which station were we at?
Robert Cramer (09:53):
Uh, we were at the Rosa Parks Transit Center, which is
our, uh, main, , bus transfer center.
It's, , right adjacent to twopeople mover stops, uh, downtown.
So it provides a lot of, uh, opportunitiesfor connections and, uh, it is our,
it's our largest, uh, transit facility.
. Paul Comfort (10:08):
So Detroit is, um, a little.
Complex in how I would say thestructure of public transportation
agents use their design.
Walk me through how it works here.
Robert Cramer (10:17):
Sure.
So, , RTA, which is the RegionalTransit Authority, they're a state
enabled, , authority, and they are theones that handle, uh, the state and
federal funding that comes to the region.
Uh, they do long, long term planning.
Uh, they, worked on some initiatives, andalso recently they took over operation
of the Q line, which is the street car.
. Then you have, uh, operators.
(10:39):
Ann Arbor is actually part of the RTA,even though it's a separate UCA, so
Ann Arbor's an operator, but then inthe, in the Detroit region, you've
got, uh, smart, which is the suburbanbus agency, also a direct recipient.
You've got ddot, which is the, is a citydepartment, , fixed route and paratransit.
And that's where you're director?
Correct.
(10:59):
That's I'm director of, uh, of ddot.
And then, uh, you have, uh,people mover, which is owned
and operated by a, a public.
Corporation essentially.
That's I'm the CEO of.
So it's really, um, and each one ofthose agencies has different funding.
So DI and the People mover get,uh, city General Fund dollars
that support it as a subsidy.
(11:19):
Uh, SMART has a smart, actuallyhas a, uh, a, uh, property tax
millage that funds their operations.
, And then, you know, the, the Qline and all the agencies get
a, a good, good amount of, uh,state and federal support as well.
Paul Comfort (11:34):
And then because.
As you're so close to Canada,it's right on the river here.
You told me you have a bus servicecoming over here from Canada.
Robert Cramer (11:41):
Yeah, transit.
Windsor currently runs, uh,the tunnel bus, which is, goes
through the tunnel of course.
, And is, uh, a commute option really.
There's a, like I mentionedbefore, there's a number of people
who live in Canada, uh, thatwork over here in the States.
Um, and then they also run some extraspecial event service because, you
know, there's a decent number of uh,uh, you know, Detroit sports fans
(12:01):
that are across the border as well.
. Paul Comfort: And all those, uh.
Sports teams.
You mentioned earlier, the fourmajor leagues, you've got good
access to them by transit, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, smart and DDOT bothhave, , quality service on Woodward,
which kind of runs right throughthe middle of all of them, Q Line.
The Streetcar also has a stop that's,uh, the first, , transit only lane
(12:24):
in the state, uh, is there to helpget through some of that congestion.
And then the people mover has astop that's, uh, about two or three
blocks from all of them as well.
In Grand Circus Park and Broadway areboth kind of nearby, so tons of options,
whether you're commuting in on transit,we exit through the rear door, or
whether you're, driving down in parkingand then looking to circulate around.
(12:45):
, There's a lot of options to,uh, to get around the downtown.
Oh, there's also Mogo,I forgot to mention.
Oh yeah.
So Mogo was a, a non-profit thatwas started, , a number of years
ago that has stations all aroundthe downtown and Midtown, which
is kind of farther up Woodward.
Um, and it's a great option.
It's the, the, uh.
Uh, fixed stations, so you'vegotta ride and, and park the bike
at a station when you go around.
(13:06):
, But really has been, uh, an incredibleasset and it's something that's also
linked in with all those other optionsto get people around the downtown.
And recently it started expandingnorth, um, into some of the
entering suburbs as well.
Paul Comfort (13:18):
That's
Robert Cramer (13:18):
great.
Paul Comfort (13:19):
We'll be right back and Robert I'm gonna ask you to
talk about your, personal careerwhen we come back this work.
Hey friends, it's Paul Comforthost of Transit Unplugged, and I've
got some exciting news to share.
Did you know that Transit Unpluggedis now a hybrid podcast experience?
That's right.
We're not just in your ears anymore.
We're on your screens too.
(13:40):
Each week on YouTube now you'llfind a brand new version of our show
featuring a video intro from me,plus behind the scenes photos and
visuals of our guests when we recordinterviews on location in person.
From transit centers towaterfronts and boardrooms,
we're taking you there visually.
Adding a whole new layer to thestorytelling and the response
so far has been amazing.
(14:02):
Thousands of people are already watchingand listening on YouTube and most
get this are watching on their TVs.
So if you haven't yet, take amoment to check U.S. out on YouTube.
Just search TransitUnplug podcast on YouTube.
Then hit subscribe and experience theshow each week in a whole new way.
We're making transit media more dynamic,more accessible, and more fun than ever.
(14:25):
And I'd love to haveyou along for the ride.
Now let's get back to the conversation.
And now we're back with Robert Kramer,who is, uh, tell U.S. your full title.
, Robert Cramer (14:35):
So I'm the Executive Director of Transit
for the City of Detroit, and thatincludes the role of director of
ddot, which is City Department.
And I'm the CEO of DetroitTransportation Corporation, which is
the public, uh, public corporationthat owns and operates the people.
. Paul Comfort (14:49):
And how did you get, tell U.S. about your background.
So how'd you get to this joband how long have you been here?
, Robert Cramer (14:54):
So this in my.
Current expanded role.
This is my, uh, what month is it?
April?
This is my fourth month.
Okay.
I started right afterthe first of the year.
, before that I was at just thepeople mover, uh, as general manager
for about two and a half years.
And prior to that, I worked at,uh, smart, which is the suburban
provider for over 10 years.
There I was, , acting gm DeputyGeneral Manager and actually started
(15:17):
there in the grants department.
, Prior to that, , my education and, uh.
First career was in, uh, communityand transportation planning.
So graduated from Michigan StateUniversity and worked for a small
consulting firm for about seven years.
And we did a combination there of,uh, community of zoning and, and site
plans and stuff all the way up to,and especially working with, , the
(15:38):
state and county agencies on,, access management transit corridor
planning, , and, uh, you know, trafficimprovement, uh, sort of activities.
, And then that, saw an opportunity.
To get smart, , in grants was kindof a little bit different track, uh,
but uh, allowed me to kind of take,take all the stuff I learned and
build on it in the public sector.
(15:58):
And, uh, then that's led one thing ledto another, to this great opportunity.
Paul Comfort (16:03):
And, and, uh, how has Mike l Oglesby involved in all
this, our buddy from now in Tucson?
Robert Cramer (16:08):
Well, so, um, when Mikel came up to, uh, ddot, it was right
around the time of the pandemic, whichis obviously, just a, a crazy time.
For everyone, but especially for transit.
So he joined, , DDOT around that timeand, um, that time more than ever.
It was just super important to have thatcoordination and partnership between
(16:30):
transit agencies, not just to supportthe riders and the drivers in particular,
who were really, um, put in a, um, justa incredible situation to be out on the
road as really, uh, frontline, , staff,but also to support each other as we.
To work through the different challenges.
So I, I remember, uh, it was kindof a fascinating, uh, there's always
(16:53):
been different factions and, andagencies and I think that was really
opportunity to pull all of U.S. together.
We actually had for, for quitea while, probably a couple
months, there was a nightly call.
, The city, it was a ddotSmart, the Streetcar.
Uh, we had the state, we had a coupleof the other, um, major agencies and
all of U.S. would get on the call.
It was either eight or nine atnight and basically like, okay.
(17:16):
How did we survive that day?
What can we do to support each other?
How did you get the, uh, the touchless,uh, temperature check kiosks?
Remember, we, we, we foundsome of those and then kind
of helped everyone order them.
Paul Comfort (17:27):
Yeah.
Robert Cramer (17:28):
Or, uh, you know, how did you deal with the COVID policy?
How did you deal with the, uh, uh,sick workforce or, uh, check and
driver issues, whatever it mightbe, uh, passenger boarding policies.
So that was really, uh, Mikel came onin the middle of that and, and he and I.
Um, kind of hit it off to reallycoordinating and supporting
(17:49):
each other in the two systems.
And, um, from there, uh, there wasan opportunity that came up, uh,
when he was in this role that I'min now at ddot, uh, where he, he, he
kind of, uh, talked to me about anopport achievement, the people mover.
And, um, Jefferson, it sounded likea great challenge and something that
would be, uh, exciting and interesting.
(18:09):
It could make a big impact.
So I, um, you know, made that move and,, really it's been an incredible experience.
Stuff.
. Paul Comfort: How about your personal life?
Any, uh, any, uh, updateon that where you're at?
Married kids, dogs, music.
. Robert Cramer (18:24):
Uh, yeah.
I'm, , married, , have, uh, four children.
, One dog, , currently was two dogsuntil recently, but, um, yeah, one dog.
Uh, what kind of dog?
, We do rescue dogs.
Okay.
So she's, uh, we did the oldsend the swab over and she's, uh.
An eighth of eight different things.
Okay.
Yeah, that very helpful.
Yes.
A mud, she, she looks,yeah, a mud for sure.
(18:46):
Um, kind of has a great Pyrenees kind ofcoat and look to her, but she's, she's
only about 65 or 70 pounds, so it'skind of, but anyway, uh, that, that's my
actually, uh, as my, my nightly release.
, I take the, take the dog on a longwalk, , around, , around where I live.
And, , that's a good, good release.
And of course, uh, she likes it as well.
So, um, yeah, that's, uh,my, uh, youngest, child.
(19:07):
My son is, uh, in college.
And, um,
Paul Comfort (19:12):
everyone, everything's good.
Can't complain.
That's good.
And if you don't mind me askingor saying, you look great, you've
lost a lot of weight recently.
You're my new hero.
Robert Cramer (19:19):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
There's, there's, uh, you know, somethingto be said for, a low carb lifestyle.
Let's put it that, I know we've, we'vetalked about that a little bit, but, uh,
yeah, it's, it's, it's really important,you know, um, even going to the CEO's
conference, uh, it is important to, to.
Realize that there's a lot, a lotriding on how successful that we can
(19:39):
be as leaders, but also to make surethat we can support each other as well.
I think, you know, taking care of ourourselves, you know, mental and physical
wellbeing is, is really important.
It is,
Paul Comfort (19:48):
yeah.
I just think I mentioned to you like,just about less than a year ago, I,
I really decided I have to focus onmy personal life and not kind of just
react and respond to it, but be theauthor of my, what my personal life
is gonna be, you know, and so like younow I'm, I'm doing a walk every day.
Know every morning, usually forthe last nine months, unless it's
(20:09):
pouring down rain, uh, and tryingto eat better too with low carbs.
I've lost 20 and got another 50 to go.
But, uh, you're right.
I, I wanted to comment on it becausea lot of guys and gals that are
in this role that I've been in,and you are in currently a CEO,
it takes a toll on you physically.
You don't get to eat, right.
I mean, I used to, you know, I wasworking 12 hour days basically, right?
(20:29):
Leave the house at seven in the morning,get home at seven at night combo.
Yeah.
And um, you know, sometimesyou just eat whatever.
Fast food you have toget and all that stuff.
Yeah,
Robert Cramer (20:38):
yeah.
Absolutely.
It, it's, um, but I think what makes it,as I'm sure you experienced too, uh, as
a, as a public service, uh, and knowingthat there's not only so many people at
the organization that you're at that arecounting on you to support them and help
them and, and help them have the toolsthey need to do their job every day.
(21:00):
But it's even more important because theirability to do their job impacts literally
tens of thousands of people every day.
Paul Comfort (21:05):
Yeah.
Robert Cramer (21:05):
So.
It's, uh, you do have to becareful that you're, you know,
uh, taking care of yourself.
, But I think, you know, transit asan industry, , it's easy to get up
and come to work every day, even onthe tough days because you know that
kind of impact you have on people.
Paul Comfort (21:19):
Isn't that wonderful?
I love that about what we do.
We pretty cool.
Yeah.
We're, we are helping and I love,you know, I'm all about paratransit.
Personally.
I've spent a lot of my career in that.
Helping people that don'thave other options is big.
Robert Cramer (21:31):
Yeah.
I think, , like you said,whether it's paratransit, but.
But even just connecting people tohealthcare, to employment, to give
them the freedom and, and supportthat they need to be able to have a
high quality of life without havingto, to figure out a way to afford it.
This incredible cost ofowning and operating a car.
Um, if, if they're able to do that,um, it's just so important to the, the
(21:52):
quality of life in our communities.
Paul Comfort (21:54):
Yeah, and I guess that'd be my last question.
, And that is, so we're inMotor City here, right?
This is the birthplace of theAmerican automobile industry really.
And yet you've got astrong transit system.
Robert Cramer (22:04):
Yeah, we've, we've got a lot of, , we've got a lot of support.
I think we've got a long way to go.
, And, and any transit systemhopefully would say that they could
always do, do more and improve.
, But starting with the coordination,you know, we mentioned all these
different agencies, sometimes thatfeels like it's counterproductive.
But I think that Jefferson, the importantthing is to coordinate those services
(22:27):
and think about the customer experience.
That's something that really, for me.
Personally, the People mover.
The People mover kind of forced me tothink about that more than I had at smart.
Really focusing on what are thethings, the little things and big
things you can do to make the customerexperience the best it can be.
And when you do that, then youbuild the quality of the service.
(22:48):
It's more convenient, it's attractive,which then makes it better.
And it just, all that builds on itself.
But, but that's really startingwith what are the things we can do
from a customer service standpoint.
Thinking about it that way,almost, almost in the hospitality
realm, what are the things we cando to really make this an asset?
We're never gonna be able to almostwelcome board, almost gonna be
(23:09):
able to drive faster than someonein their own personal automobile
going directly from space to space.
That doesn't mean that we can't, , youknow, make the, the experience and
the service and the affordabilityand the connectivity can still
be a great asset to people.
If we really think focus onthat part is making sure we
think about customer experience.
(23:29):
I. Every day.
Julie Gates (23:38):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode
of the Transit Unplugged Podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
My name is Julie Gates.
I'm the executive producer of theshow, and our goal is to create
programs that promote the great thingsgoing on in the transit industry
by providing you with behind thescenes access with industry executive
leadership so we can work together tofind innovative industry solutions.
(23:59):
We would love to have you be a partof the Transit Unplugged community by
having you sign up for our newsletter.
Head to the show notes to find the link.
Thanks for listening to Transit Unpluggedwith Paul Comfort, our favorite transit
evangelist, and we'll catch you next week.
Thanks for tuning in.
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