April 9, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of Transit Unplugged, Paul Comfort sits down with John Rossant, founder and CEO of CoMotion, to explore what’s next for cities, transit, and technology. From preparing for mega-events like the World Cup to pioneering hydrogen-powered aviation, John shares how CoMotion is helping shape the future of urban mobility—with a pasta recipe thrown in for good measure.
They discuss:
- The evolving role of public-private partnerships in transit
- Why CoMotion Miami feels more like a tech summit than a transit conference
- How cities can creatively finance sustainable mobility as federal funds tighten
- And the global push toward hydrogen-powered transport—from Monaco to Miami
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
02:19 CoMotion: A Hub for Future Mobility
03:31 Comfort Food Cookbook and Personal Stories
05:19 Upcoming CoMotion Miami Conference
05:50 New Realities and Opportunities in Mobility
08:18 Public and Private Sector Collaboration
15:16 Mega Events and Transit Solutions
22:49 Hydrogen as the Future of Sustainable Mobility
28:32 Conclusion and Event Details
Want to experience the future of mobility firsthand?
Learn more and get your tickets to CoMotion Miami at: comotionmiami.com
Don’t miss this insightful conversation at the intersection of innovation, policy, and pasta.
Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo
Host & Producer: Paul Comfort
Podcast Editor & Newsletter Guy: Chris O'Keeffe
Executive Producer: Julie Gates
Special thanks to:
Brand Design: Tina Olagundoye
Social Media: Tatyana Mechkarova
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:47):
I'm Paul Comfort.
Excited to have you with us on thisspecial episode of Transit Unplugged, the
world's leading transit executive podcast.
Today I have my good friend, John Raan,who is founder and CEO of CoMotion.
It's a global platform where themost innovative transportation and
technology companies, as well ascivic and business leaders from
across the mobility ecosphere,explore, collaborate, and interact.
(02:09):
To share ideas and make deals alittle bit different than some John.
Huh?
You're making deals at yourconference, aren't you?
You're a deal maker, man.
Sure.
That's the name of the game, man.
There you go.
So, uh, CoMotion, I'vebeen to a bunch of them.
CoMotion organizes world leadingfuture mobility gatherings, called
CoMotion Miami and CoMotion la twoof the hot transit tech cities in
(02:29):
America and really in the world.
They produced a Fast Forward podcastwhere I've been a guest in the past.
And publish a weekly Substack CoMotionnews, which I love by the way.
It's a great place to get newsand information with incisive
news and analysis from themobility, uh, revolution.
John is also, and I'm particularlyinterested in this, the president
of the Monaco Hydrogen Alliance.
this is the first platformexclusively dedicated to
(02:52):
mobility and renewable hydrogen.
John also sits on the advisoryboard for the alliance.
For Southern CaliforniaInnovation and Neon.
And, uh, John, I remember you and I havebeen friends for, I don't know, five or
10 years, and I remember being at thefirst la uh, one of the first CoMotion
LA conferences, and I was just blownaway by the technology you've got there.
(03:13):
And, and the, it has a very differentfield than other traditional
transit conferences, which I love.
It feels edgier and it feels,uh, more on, more, almost on the
bleeding edge, not just cutting edge.
So bravo to you and your team.
It is high praise coming from you.
Thank you, Paul.
Yeah, absolutely.
And John, of course, uh, those ofyou who got the, uh, comfort Food
(03:34):
Cookbook will remember John fromhis recipe that he put in there.
Hey, let's start with that.
John.
tell us about the recipe and comfortfood and, and where that came from.
Well in, in, uh, the earlierpart of my life, I lived in Rome,
Italy, where I met my wife andgot married and started a family.
And we had a good friend, uh, backin Rome who's unfortunately no longer
(03:56):
with us, who was actually a, uh, poet.
And she was also not only a published andwell-known poet, but she was a great cook.
She loved to eat, she loved to make.
Great food and, and she introducedme to the joys of good Italian wine.
And she had a recipe that,was so simple but was so good.
(04:22):
And it is involves if you can getyour hands on very good, fresh yellow
peppers and a little bit of saffron.
And some olive oil and pecorino cheese.
That's all you need tomake a really great pasta.
Um, and it involves just kind of patientlycooking the yellow peppers down to kind
(04:43):
of liquid form and adding some saffron.
Anyway, that's, yeah.
Great.
This,
that's great.
And I remember it was probablytwo years ago now, we, we
actually, uh, did the book launch.
At CoMotion Miami.
You and I did.
Yeah.
Uh, the first time the book wasreleased, we did a book signing.
It was great.
The book is going on to, greatacclaim around the world, and, uh,
thank you for your part in that.
(05:04):
Uh, and it just shows, um, theinnovation that you're known for.
You, you live part-time in tourin Italy, and that's what we're
talking from today, right?
That is absolutely.
I'm kind of between LA and Turin,which is, uh, the La Turin access.
Don't, don't ask, but, uh,
well, I, I'm excited to, uh, tobe with you in Miami, which is
coming up, uh, very soon, whichis the CoMotion Miami Conference.
(05:27):
And it is, uh, April 29th through 30th.
It's, uh, the theme is Newreality, new Opportunities.
It'll be a Miami Dades College AI center.
Uh, we'll be there filming anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv.
So for those of you who wanna see it inperson, we invite you to join us there.
And then afterwards, uh, we'll have anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv, which
showcases some of the stuff there.
(05:47):
John, tell us about it this year'stheme and what's going on there.
I.
Yeah, I mean, we're calling it um,uh, new realities, new opportunities.
I mean, there is a new reality of course,which is, um, a new administration
in Washington, which is changingsome of the rules of the game.
and I think, you know, there are.
Not going anywhere.
They're not going anywhere.
(06:07):
So we have to get used to it andadapt over the next three years,
three, three and a half years.
in some cases it's a, could be a negativefor cities because one of the expectations
is that the funding spigot from thefederal government to municipalities will
decline, this year in the coming years.
(06:28):
So cities have to be more creative.
About finding ways to financesustainable, mobility, sustainable
transportation projects going forward.
And it's in a difficultmoment because, uh, uh.
you know, tax receiptsare going down, et cetera.
It's, it's not an enormouslystrong economy, so, you
(06:48):
know, we have to be creative.
One of the interesting things thatwe're gonna be doing in Miami is
we're launching a, a new internationaltask force, called the Sumit Task
Force, the Sustainable Urban MobilityInvestment Task Force, and it looks at.
Precisely some of the new, uh, financialinstruments that cities can use to
(07:12):
finance, you know, new metro lines, uh,new, uh, electric bus fleets, et cetera.
Given that, uh, in the United States, thefederal larges is probably gonna go down.
Yeah, that's what I'm hearing too.
Actually, I'll be in Washington, DCthis week, the week we're recording the
first week of April, um, going onto thehill, I'll be meeting with House and
Senate leaders, meeting with the FederalTrans Administration, meeting with apta.
(07:35):
And we're gonna get a kind of,get a pulse on what's happening.
Yeah.
Uh, and report back to our listeners.
So I think it's great.
I actually just spoke at aconference in Texas a couple weeks
ago, and that was my theme, John.
It was a new year, you know, anew administration and a new you.
So it seems to be the theme, huh?
Yeah.
But we also, you know, we, again,we wanna look on the positive side
(07:55):
and that's, that's what we see.
New realities, but new opportunities.
There's still a lot ofopportunities out there.
There is a lot of, technologicalinnovation that is still going forward.
And you know, I thank you for pointingout that Commotion is a place where
these kinds of technological innovationsare discussed, and I think one of the.
(08:18):
Real differentiating things about whatwe do at Commotion is that we talk about
innovation and cutting edge and bleedingedge technology, but we also, the public
sector is very much a part of that.
We see that, you know, we deep, webelieve that mobility, uh, takes
place in the public right of way.
Uh, mobility will always be aextremely regulated industry.
(08:43):
and so it's, that's why it's soimportant to bring public and private
together, and that's kind of at theheart of what we try to do at Commotion.
So it's, it's skews pretty evenly between50% public sector, 50% private sector.
So do you guys do like a, um.
Uh, shark Tank kind of thing.
Still there where people presenttheir latest technology or, and
(09:06):
you have another conference too?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we, we also.
Kind of reverse it.
Okay.
So instead of having, cool startupspitch their cool technology to clients
or to the public sector, we have thepublic sector, heads of departments of
transportation, and, uh, people likethat pitching to the private sector
(09:27):
in the sense, this is what we need.
This is Oh, wow.
And, and people findthis extremely useful.
Yeah.
So we begin each day with, withthis breakfast, which is pitching
the private sector, essentially.
Okay.
That's interesting.
Instead of the other way around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great,
man.
and you've got someamazing speakers coming up.
(09:48):
I've looked, by the way, thank you.
I'm, I'm gonna be moderating a, a panel,which I think will be pretty cool.
I'll talk about that in a minute.
Yeah, we,
we always love having you on stage, Paul.
Thank you.
You really bring a lot ofinsights and you're, you're
just a great presence on stage.
So
thanks.
I feel like I'm aprofessional moderator now.
That's what I do a lot oftimes is moderate these panels.
But, um, tell us about some of the othergreat speakers you've got coming up.
(10:10):
Well, we've of course got the twokey mayors, from Miami, uh, mayor
Daniella, Levine Kava, who's the mayorof Miami Dade County, which is the big.
Conglomeration of, of,of cities where Miami is.
And also our, our old friendFrancis Suarez, who's the mayor of
Miami itself, the city of Miami.
(10:32):
, we also have other mayors.
for example, the Mayor of Pretoria,the capital of South Africa,
is coming into Commotion Miami,which is quite a long trip.
and she in fact, is going to be partof this new task force we're setting
up on, finding innovative financingmechanisms for cities because it's not
(10:52):
only an American conversation, but it'salso very much a global conversation.
one of the interesting thingsabout this new task force
is that, also global cities.
Have to find new and innovativeways to finance big projects.
So the World Bank, for example,estimates that over the next 30 years
or so, will need around $50 trillion.
(11:17):
That's a key trillion.
Yeah.
For new investments insustainable transportation
technology around the world.
And currently there'sabout a $10 trillion gap.
Between, you know, what centralgovernments can finance, et cetera.
So cities really have to be, very creativein how they finance these new things
(11:39):
and find that, you know, $10 trillion.
So.
Often, if you think about the worldfinancial system that was, uh, pretty
much organized after the second WorldWar, it basically has nation states
rather than cities at the center of it.
And so often in the outsidethe United States, cities don't
(12:00):
have access to financial marketsfor a variety of reasons.
The same way that American cities do have.
Quite a lot of access viamunicipal funding, municipal bonds.
So it's, it's a, it's kind of acomplicated, but very, very important
subject because if we don't find thesefinancial resources, we're not gonna
be able to put in the new kinds of,sustainable, uh, transportation systems
(12:26):
that, that we need in our cities.
Just for people who may be interested ormay be attending on Tuesday, I'll be on
the leadership stage at 4:30 PM moderatingwhat you and I just talked about, John.
It's a panel on autonomousmobility at scale, safety policy,
and real world deployment.
Nat Ford will be there, of course,from the JTA, leadership from
Miami-Dade and some other folksthere too from ZOOX and NTSB.
(12:49):
It ought to be an amazing panel.
Thanks for setting me up with that man.
Well, that's good.
No, no, thank you.
Because it's, you know, it couldnot be a more important topic.
I mean, autonomous, vehicles arehere and they're here to stay.
It's only gonna grow.
as you well know, Florida, hasbeen a leader in thinking about.
How autonomous vehicles will, willand can navigate our cities in
(13:13):
the future, uh, in terms of, youknow, really smart legislation,
smart regulations around that.
So, I think the whole, transitcommunity can learn a lot
from how Florida is doing it.
Yeah, Nat Ford at JTA has hadthat test and learn facility, and
now he's announced that, hold on.
Uh, the manufacturer from Europeis gonna bring, our first America
(13:34):
based, uh, manufacturing plantso they can meet, uh, by America
requirements, et cetera, I guess.
So that's coming supposedly soon.
He was just on Capitol Hill last week.
I saw him do a post on that.
Oh, great.
Yeah, a lot of good stuff happening.
When we come back in just a minute,John, I'm gonna ask you about,
how you put together these privateand public sector leaders a little
bit more and dive into that.
And plus I wanna dive into hydrogen andwhat you're doing in Monaco and all that.
(13:56):
Right after this special announcement, I.
(14:50):
And we're back with John Raat, whois founder and CEO of CoMotion.
We're talking about the upcomingCoMotion Miami conference.
Uh, John, you know, I, I was just inKansas City for our company conference,
uh, think Transit, and, um, I.
Frank White, the CEO was talkingabout, uh, the World Cup coming to
the us uh, and how a lot of citiesare getting ready for the Texas too.
(15:10):
A lot of cities are happening here, Ithink in Canada, Mexico, and the us.
Are you addressing thatat all at the conference?
Absolutely it's gonna be front andcenter because Miami, of course, is one
of the big, uh, world Cup cities nextyear and it's really coming up fast.
Yeah.
You know, so, uh, we've got TanyaMahan from the FIFA World Cup
Organization, so that'll be great.
(15:31):
we have, people from Los Angeleswho were looking at the World
Cup, you know how cities.
Approach and deal with mega events likethis from a transit point of view could
not be more important because transitis really at the heart of whether you're
gonna have a successful event or not,because it involves moving vast numbers
(15:52):
of fans, uh, you know, across from, from,uh, yeah, venue to venue two, et cetera.
And doing that in a kind ofseamless way will really contribute
to the success of the event.
So one of the things you know atall, whether it's Commotion LA.
Or Commotion Miami.
But over the last couple of years, therehas been a big focus on mega events.
(16:14):
Yeah.
And of course in LA where we haveour Commotion LA conference, we also
have not only the World Cup nextyear, but in 2028, the Olympics.
Right.
Which, you know, is aother kind of challenge.
I mean, it's just, you know,just a, a really big deal.
Yeah.
We did a recent episode of ourTransit Unplugged TV show there and,
uh, featuring, you know, how they'regetting ready for the Olympics.
(16:35):
We had con in on there to CO and abunch of other folks that the CIO
and um, actually it, it was ourbiggest watch show ever in California.
We had thousands of viewers in California.
Of course, they're all interestedin how they're gonna do a transit
First Olympics there and try tomove cars out of the equation.
Yeah.
But you know,
I, I think if you look at, you know,some of the other speakers, uh, yeah.
In Miami, like Michael Lynn Abnetfrom HNTB, uh, or Dimitri Ovv, uh,
(17:01):
the head of Uber Transit, everyone'sgonna be talking about mega events
and about, the World Cup, you know?
That's, that's right.
Really coming up fast.
And I saw Collie
Greenwood's gonna bethere too, from Marta.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Another great speaker that I reallyneed to mention is, of course,
Stacy Miller, who, mayor LevineKava, has appointed, to be the new
(17:21):
head of the Miami-Dade Departmentof Transportation and Public Works.
you know, she, she, I. Started, April 7th.
So this will really be the firstopportunity that, that she has
to give a vision of, of, of, ofwhat she has in mind over the
next few years, uh, in Miami-Dade.
So, very excited about that.
one of the things I love about yourconference too, John, is it's just
(17:42):
not like on buses and trains, likea lot of traditional transit, but
you've got aviation, you've gotvertical takeoff and landing vehicles
there, you've got all kinds of stuff.
who do you have coming,speaking kind of on that?
Anybody cool this year?
Yeah, I mean we have, um, Jobywill be there, you know, it's one
of the, the leaders in the space.
I'm not sure if anybody's is comingfrom Archer, uh, but Eve, which is
(18:04):
another EAL group, based, in Florida.
so we've got somebody
from the Paris airport, right.
Arab de, which is, uh, owns the, not onlythe Paris airports, but owns a bunch of
other airports in France and in Europe.
Oh, wow.
So they're, they're a big actor in thekind of aviation space, in Europe and
thinking very proactively about how,electric, vertical takeoff and landing
(18:29):
aircraft can be, integrated into,airport, uh, right systems in the future.
When people go to the commotion, uh, it'snot just walking outside a lot of times Is
it gonna be outside, by the way, your expothis year where people get to see It's,
it's, it's sort of in and out.
Okay.
I mean, the sessions will be inside right.
Air conditioned and we are in my.
(18:49):
Um, but there is, you know, you can,there are a lot of things outside and,
you know, we're not a trade show, butwe encourage people to kind of bring
gadgets to look at or, or vehicles.
'cause I, you know, it's,it's always nice sort of.
Yeah.
You know, kicking in the tires.
I love that.
That's what I love about it for sure.
We're gonna showcase some of that onour show too, but tell us more about,
(19:11):
uh, I love your evening receptions.
You know, you have some greatwork sessions, a challenge.
Talk to us about what else peoplewill experience when they're
at CoMotion Miami this year I.
Well, you mentioned, uh, the challengeand this year, um, we're partnering with
the Miami Innovation Authority, which is afairly new, entity, of Miami-Dade County.
(19:31):
they support, a whole varietyof early stage growth companies
to come up with sort of.
various kinds of technologicalinnovations to make Miami-Dade,
better adapted to citizens' needs.
And a lot of what theylook at is mobility.
So they're doing a challenge thisyear, which we're helping out with.
And so we'll be hearing from some of thecompanies involved in that challenge.
(19:53):
So I'm really excited about that.
As you say, there's always a lot ofside events and I think a big part
of, you know, the value of Commotionis meeting people and, you know,
building your net, your own network.
And, uh, you know, often it's in sortof informal discussions in the corridor
or or over a beer at night where youreally learn things and you've come away
(20:16):
with deep insights about the direction.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love, uh, I love all those things.
Last time I was in Miami withyou two years ago, I remember
the opening reception, man,you had a DeLorean right there.
And, uh, of course that's, you know,the coolest car ever, you know,
for those of us of a certain age.
Remember back to the future.
So love all the kind of neatthings you've got going on there.
(20:38):
what is the mission for CoMotion?
What's your, what's your game plan?
I mean, ultimately, look, I mean, ourmission is, you know, we believe in
a future of, you know, sustainable,seamless, multimodal mobility in cities.
We think that.
The seamlessness is a reallykey, element in the future.
(20:58):
You know, the future is multimodal and oneof the really interesting things that we
look at is all the amazing new modes ofmobility that are coming down the pike.
And you mentioned, you know, advanced airmobility options and, and you're right, we
were very, very early on, I think in thevery first, commotion LA eight years ago.
(21:20):
We in fact had a discussion of advancedair mobility and no one had really
thought about it, was thinking aboutit back then, but it, it is going
to be part of an urban region's,um, mobility options in the future.
Yep.
And instead of, you know, getting in a,in a Uber, uh, to go to LAX, if you live
(21:41):
in Hollywood Hills, for example, right.
You're gonna hop on in an electricvertical takeoff and landing aircraft
and do that trip in five minutes.
That would may maybeotherwise take an hour.
Yeah, I can't wait for that.
Yeah,
I, I want an autonomous vitol tocome and land in my front yard.
Pick me up for $99 and take me to theroof of the ft. A building in downtown dc.
(22:03):
Beat all that traffic.
It's about an hour drive.
I bet you we could do it in 15 minutes.
So
yeah,
the Eastern, I mean, it's a
future that is startingto come into focus.
Same way you have.
you know, I think we were among thefirst to start talking about maritime
mobility and we see that also, youknow, a lot of cities are on the water.
That's right.
(22:24):
and you know how you get frompoint A to point B. Officially
could involve a trip on the water.
Yes.
That doesn't have to be Venice.
It could also be NewYork City, for example.
That's right.
Or Washington dc I was just therethis last week with Randy Clark.
We were doing an episode featuringhow to get around Washington DC
using transit instead of cars.
Yep.
And, uh, we rode the water taxi, right,right behind, uh, you know, Georgetown
(22:45):
across, uh, across the water from there.
So Georgetown Park, it was great.
One of the other great things you'reworking on, John, that you and I
are in alignment on is the power ofhydrogen, as a, as a new sustainable,
you know, zero emission fuel.
Of course, here in America, we haveseven hydrogen hubs that were outlined
in the, IAJA, uh, that were fundedand they're starting to come into
focus, but it's still very slow.
(23:06):
Feels like we're dragging ourfeet on hydrogen a little bit.
What's going on with hydrogenaround the world and what,
what are you doing with it?
Yeah.
Thank you for mentioning that because,um, it's something that we've always
looked at somewhat at commotion.
certainly hydrogen for, uh, trucking,heavy duty trucking is yeah, is a
really important use case becauseyou just can't get batteries.
(23:27):
You know, they're gonna be so big and soheavy to propel, a truck long distances
that there won't be any room for cargo.
And so the great thing about hydrogenis that it has four to five times
the energy of lithium iron batteries.
And so you can really Go the distance,which is why, for example, Joby, who I
mentioned, which is one of the players inthe electric vertical takeoff and landing
(23:50):
aircraft is very advanced in hydrogenbecause they recognize that a battery
powered, Little aircraft that needs alot of power to, to rise vertically.
if you use batteries, you'renot gonna have a lot of range.
And so they retrofitted one oftheir evals for, fuel hydrogen
(24:10):
fuel cell and had a test flightlast summer of close to 600 miles.
Wow.
That completely opens up a newkind of regional mode of, demand
driven, sustainable transportation,you know, getting from your house
to perhaps not to, the center ofWashington, but maybe to a suburb.
(24:31):
New York City.
Yeah.
New York City.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's only a four hour drive, so yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
And so tell me about theMonaco Hydrogen Alliance.
What is that and
what do you do?
Yeah, we set that up aroundfour years ago as a nonprofit.
it so happens that we've actually donea lot of work in Monaco over the years,
and I'm quite friendly with, uh, princeAlbert, the, the ruler of Monaco, who's
(24:55):
a very open-minded individual, is.
Almost completely focused on fightingclimate change and, coming up
with sort of zero carbon solutionsfor, you know, transportation.
there are, I think about 300electric charging stations in Monaco.
They're all free.
Anybody can use them andcharge up your car for free.
(25:17):
we felt that.
The world needed a kind of reallyfocused initiative on mobility and
renewable hydrogen, green hydrogen,and to look at the sort of the next
generation of planes, trains, trucks,boats that will be running on hydrogen.
This is not something for tomorrow.
There are some pain pointsabout using hydrogen.
(25:39):
It's a very, very small atom.
Indeed.
It's the smallest, it's the mostabundant atom in the universe, by the
way, the most abundant element, butit's a tricky one because it's so small.
the atoms can leak out.
So you have to take.
extra care not to have that happen.
you know, it's combustible.
It's, it's so, it's, it's not so easy.
but what's interesting, really,really interesting about the hydrogen
(26:03):
space is that the innovationsare starting to happen now.
If you think about batteryelectric, it's really been 20 years.
Where the greatest minds in theworld have been focused on how
to make batteries more efficient.
That's just starting nowin the hydrogen space.
And some of the things we're learning isthat we can really bring down the costs
(26:25):
of producing, of, of making hydrogen, ofstoring it, of transporting it, et cetera.
So I think, you know, these arethings that are coming down the pike.
It's very, very exciting.
I don't think we're gonna see hydrogen.
We have, there are hydrogen cars, butI think the widespread adoption, a
kind of hi, a hydrogen powered Tesla.
(26:47):
I think that's not for the next few years.
I think trucking is certainlygoing to happen pretty soon.
they're already hydrogen poweredtrains and the beauty of hydrogen is
completely, Friendly to the environment.
The only thing that comes out of thetailpipe is water, drops of water.
there's no carbon involved, so it's avery, very exciting space, and again,
(27:09):
precisely because of the new kindsof technologies that are, that are,
that are, we're starting to see acrossthe whole value chain of hydrogen.
And as you know, it's, uh, it'sreally starting to take the
transit industry buses by storm.
My good friend Kurt Conrad, who is CEO ofthe Stark Area Regional Transit Authority
in Canton, Ohio, where the NFL FootballHall of Fame is, he wrote a chapter in
(27:31):
my latest book, the New Future PublicTransportation, and he heads up the mid,
I don't know what it's called, but it'sin, it's like the central part of America.
They've got a center of excellenceand, uh, my friend Mikel Oglesby kind
of got it started in Sunlight Transitout there, in, uh, in south of la and.
Dorn Barnes, CEO of, uh, foothills hasreally, he's got the largest fleet in
America of, absolutely hydrogen buses.
And so I, I'm excited about this.
(27:53):
Very,
very forward.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm excited about it, John, and lookforward to continuing to help you
promote hydrogen fuel, uh, both herein the United States and around the
world because I think it is a greatsustainable, and Ed is, in my mind,
ed is almost ready for prime time.
Based on the people I'vetalked to and the bus industry.
and so I think it's our time now forhydrogen fuel, so I'm excited about it.
(28:13):
And the issue is
really kind of infrastructureand, and, yeah, that's right.
Don't we have to build outhydrogen infrastructure?
So it's, it's always theeternal chicken and egg.
I,
what comes first until the demand is
there, they're not gonnabuild the infrastructure, but.
If there's no infrastructure, thedemand won't be there, but it,
it, it's gonna happen for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
great.
Well, you can hear more aboutthis and learn more about all the
(28:34):
things we've talked about todayat John's upcoming CoMotion Miami.
It's gonna be held Tuesday and Wednesday,April 29th and 30th in Miami, Florida.
I. And, uh, if you're interestedin attending, there's still
time for you to sign up.
It's at CoMotion miami.com.
Again, C-O-M-O-T-I-O-N miami.com.
You can learn more andyou can register there.
We'll be filming, as I mentioned, transitUnplugged TV and episode there, hopefully
(28:58):
interviewing a few folks for the podcast.
John, as always, thank you for yourleadership in our industry and for
sharing a few moments, uh, with us today,from tour in Italy on what's coming
up and what's going on in your world.
It's always a delight toexchange with you, Paul.
Really, I just, I love, uh,talking with you about our favorite
subject, the future of transit.
I'm Paul Comfort.
Excited to have you with us on thisspecial episode of Transit Unplugged, the
world's leading transit executive podcast.
Today I have my good friend, John Raan,who is founder and CEO of CoMotion.
It's a global platform where themost innovative transportation and
technology companies, as well ascivic and business leaders from
across the mobility ecosphere,explore, collaborate, and interact.
(02:09):
To share ideas and make deals alittle bit different than some John.
Huh?
You're making deals at yourconference, aren't you?
You're a deal maker, man.
Sure.
That's the name of the game, man.
There you go.
So, uh, CoMotion, I'vebeen to a bunch of them.
CoMotion organizes world leadingfuture mobility gatherings, called
CoMotion Miami and CoMotion la twoof the hot transit tech cities in
(02:29):
America and really in the world.
They produced a Fast Forward podcastwhere I've been a guest in the past.
And publish a weekly Substack CoMotionnews, which I love by the way.
It's a great place to get newsand information with incisive
news and analysis from themobility, uh, revolution.
John is also, and I'm particularlyinterested in this, the president
of the Monaco Hydrogen Alliance.
this is the first platformexclusively dedicated to
(02:52):
mobility and renewable hydrogen.
John also sits on the advisoryboard for the alliance.
For Southern CaliforniaInnovation and Neon.
And, uh, John, I remember you and I havebeen friends for, I don't know, five or
10 years, and I remember being at thefirst la uh, one of the first CoMotion
LA conferences, and I was just blownaway by the technology you've got there.
(03:13):
And, and the, it has a very differentfield than other traditional
transit conferences, which I love.
It feels edgier and it feels,uh, more on, more, almost on the
bleeding edge, not just cutting edge.
So bravo to you and your team.
It is high praise coming from you.
Thank you, Paul.
Yeah, absolutely.
And John, of course, uh, those ofyou who got the, uh, comfort Food
(03:34):
Cookbook will remember John fromhis recipe that he put in there.
Hey, let's start with that.
John.
tell us about the recipe and comfortfood and, and where that came from.
Well in, in, uh, the earlierpart of my life, I lived in Rome,
Italy, where I met my wife andgot married and started a family.
And we had a good friend, uh, backin Rome who's unfortunately no longer
(03:56):
with us, who was actually a, uh, poet.
And she was also not only a published andwell-known poet, but she was a great cook.
She loved to eat, she loved to make.
Great food and, and she introducedme to the joys of good Italian wine.
And she had a recipe that,was so simple but was so good.
(04:22):
And it is involves if you can getyour hands on very good, fresh yellow
peppers and a little bit of saffron.
And some olive oil and pecorino cheese.
That's all you need tomake a really great pasta.
Um, and it involves just kind of patientlycooking the yellow peppers down to kind
(04:43):
of liquid form and adding some saffron.
Anyway, that's, yeah.
Great.
This,
that's great.
And I remember it was probablytwo years ago now, we, we
actually, uh, did the book launch.
At CoMotion Miami.
You and I did.
Yeah.
Uh, the first time the book wasreleased, we did a book signing.
It was great.
The book is going on to, greatacclaim around the world, and, uh,
thank you for your part in that.
(05:04):
Uh, and it just shows, um, theinnovation that you're known for.
You, you live part-time in tourin Italy, and that's what we're
talking from today, right?
That is absolutely.
I'm kind of between LA and Turin,which is, uh, the La Turin access.
Don't, don't ask, but, uh,
well, I, I'm excited to, uh, tobe with you in Miami, which is
coming up, uh, very soon, whichis the CoMotion Miami Conference.
(05:27):
And it is, uh, April 29th through 30th.
It's, uh, the theme is Newreality, new Opportunities.
It'll be a Miami Dades College AI center.
Uh, we'll be there filming anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv.
So for those of you who wanna see it inperson, we invite you to join us there.
And then afterwards, uh, we'll have anepisode of Transit Unplugged tv, which
showcases some of the stuff there.
(05:47):
John, tell us about it this year'stheme and what's going on there.
I.
Yeah, I mean, we're calling it um,uh, new realities, new opportunities.
I mean, there is a new reality of course,which is, um, a new administration
in Washington, which is changingsome of the rules of the game.
and I think, you know, there are.
Not going anywhere.
They're not going anywhere.
(06:07):
So we have to get used to it andadapt over the next three years,
three, three and a half years.
in some cases it's a, could be a negativefor cities because one of the expectations
is that the funding spigot from thefederal government to municipalities will
decline, this year in the coming years.
(06:28):
So cities have to be more creative.
About finding ways to financesustainable, mobility, sustainable
transportation projects going forward.
And it's in a difficultmoment because, uh, uh.
you know, tax receiptsare going down, et cetera.
It's, it's not an enormouslystrong economy, so, you
(06:48):
know, we have to be creative.
One of the interesting things thatwe're gonna be doing in Miami is
we're launching a, a new internationaltask force, called the Sumit Task
Force, the Sustainable Urban MobilityInvestment Task Force, and it looks at.
Precisely some of the new, uh, financialinstruments that cities can use to
(07:12):
finance, you know, new metro lines, uh,new, uh, electric bus fleets, et cetera.
Given that, uh, in the United States, thefederal larges is probably gonna go down.
Yeah, that's what I'm hearing too.
Actually, I'll be in Washington, DCthis week, the week we're recording the
first week of April, um, going onto thehill, I'll be meeting with House and
Senate leaders, meeting with the FederalTrans Administration, meeting with apta.
(07:35):
And we're gonna get a kind of,get a pulse on what's happening.
Yeah.
Uh, and report back to our listeners.
So I think it's great.
I actually just spoke at aconference in Texas a couple weeks
ago, and that was my theme, John.
It was a new year, you know, anew administration and a new you.
So it seems to be the theme, huh?
Yeah.
But we also, you know, we, again,we wanna look on the positive side
(07:55):
and that's, that's what we see.
New realities, but new opportunities.
There's still a lot ofopportunities out there.
There is a lot of, technologicalinnovation that is still going forward.
And you know, I thank you for pointingout that Commotion is a place where
these kinds of technological innovationsare discussed, and I think one of the.
(08:18):
Real differentiating things about whatwe do at Commotion is that we talk about
innovation and cutting edge and bleedingedge technology, but we also, the public
sector is very much a part of that.
We see that, you know, we deep, webelieve that mobility, uh, takes
place in the public right of way.
Uh, mobility will always be aextremely regulated industry.
(08:43):
and so it's, that's why it's soimportant to bring public and private
together, and that's kind of at theheart of what we try to do at Commotion.
So it's, it's skews pretty evenly between50% public sector, 50% private sector.
So do you guys do like a, um.
Uh, shark Tank kind of thing.
Still there where people presenttheir latest technology or, and
(09:06):
you have another conference too?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we, we also.
Kind of reverse it.
Okay.
So instead of having, cool startupspitch their cool technology to clients
or to the public sector, we have thepublic sector, heads of departments of
transportation, and, uh, people likethat pitching to the private sector
(09:27):
in the sense, this is what we need.
This is Oh, wow.
And, and people findthis extremely useful.
Yeah.
So we begin each day with, withthis breakfast, which is pitching
the private sector, essentially.
Okay.
That's interesting.
Instead of the other way around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great,
man.
and you've got someamazing speakers coming up.
(09:48):
I've looked, by the way, thank you.
I'm, I'm gonna be moderating a, a panel,which I think will be pretty cool.
I'll talk about that in a minute.
Yeah, we,
we always love having you on stage, Paul.
Thank you.
You really bring a lot ofinsights and you're, you're
just a great presence on stage.
So
thanks.
I feel like I'm aprofessional moderator now.
That's what I do a lot oftimes is moderate these panels.
But, um, tell us about some of the othergreat speakers you've got coming up.
(10:10):
Well, we've of course got the twokey mayors, from Miami, uh, mayor
Daniella, Levine Kava, who's the mayorof Miami Dade County, which is the big.
Conglomeration of, of,of cities where Miami is.
And also our, our old friendFrancis Suarez, who's the mayor of
Miami itself, the city of Miami.
(10:32):
, we also have other mayors.
for example, the Mayor of Pretoria,the capital of South Africa,
is coming into Commotion Miami,which is quite a long trip.
and she in fact, is going to be partof this new task force we're setting
up on, finding innovative financingmechanisms for cities because it's not
(10:52):
only an American conversation, but it'salso very much a global conversation.
one of the interesting thingsabout this new task force
is that, also global cities.
Have to find new and innovativeways to finance big projects.
So the World Bank, for example,estimates that over the next 30 years
or so, will need around $50 trillion.
(11:17):
That's a key trillion.
Yeah.
For new investments insustainable transportation
technology around the world.
And currently there'sabout a $10 trillion gap.
Between, you know, what centralgovernments can finance, et cetera.
So cities really have to be, very creativein how they finance these new things
(11:39):
and find that, you know, $10 trillion.
So.
Often, if you think about the worldfinancial system that was, uh, pretty
much organized after the second WorldWar, it basically has nation states
rather than cities at the center of it.
And so often in the outsidethe United States, cities don't
(12:00):
have access to financial marketsfor a variety of reasons.
The same way that American cities do have.
Quite a lot of access viamunicipal funding, municipal bonds.
So it's, it's a, it's kind of acomplicated, but very, very important
subject because if we don't find thesefinancial resources, we're not gonna
be able to put in the new kinds of,sustainable, uh, transportation systems
(12:26):
that, that we need in our cities.
Just for people who may be interested ormay be attending on Tuesday, I'll be on
the leadership stage at 4:30 PM moderatingwhat you and I just talked about, John.
It's a panel on autonomousmobility at scale, safety policy,
and real world deployment.
Nat Ford will be there, of course,from the JTA, leadership from
Miami-Dade and some other folksthere too from ZOOX and NTSB.
(12:49):
It ought to be an amazing panel.
Thanks for setting me up with that man.
Well, that's good.
No, no, thank you.
Because it's, you know, it couldnot be a more important topic.
I mean, autonomous, vehicles arehere and they're here to stay.
It's only gonna grow.
as you well know, Florida, hasbeen a leader in thinking about.
How autonomous vehicles will, willand can navigate our cities in
(13:13):
the future, uh, in terms of, youknow, really smart legislation,
smart regulations around that.
So, I think the whole, transitcommunity can learn a lot
from how Florida is doing it.
Yeah, Nat Ford at JTA has hadthat test and learn facility, and
now he's announced that, hold on.
Uh, the manufacturer from Europeis gonna bring, our first America
(13:34):
based, uh, manufacturing plantso they can meet, uh, by America
requirements, et cetera, I guess.
So that's coming supposedly soon.
He was just on Capitol Hill last week.
I saw him do a post on that.
Oh, great.
Yeah, a lot of good stuff happening.
When we come back in just a minute,John, I'm gonna ask you about,
how you put together these privateand public sector leaders a little
bit more and dive into that.
And plus I wanna dive into hydrogen andwhat you're doing in Monaco and all that.
(13:56):
Right after this special announcement, I.
(14:50):
And we're back with John Raat, whois founder and CEO of CoMotion.
We're talking about the upcomingCoMotion Miami conference.
Uh, John, you know, I, I was just inKansas City for our company conference,
uh, think Transit, and, um, I.
Frank White, the CEO was talkingabout, uh, the World Cup coming to
the us uh, and how a lot of citiesare getting ready for the Texas too.
(15:10):
A lot of cities are happening here, Ithink in Canada, Mexico, and the us.
Are you addressing thatat all at the conference?
Absolutely it's gonna be front andcenter because Miami, of course, is one
of the big, uh, world Cup cities nextyear and it's really coming up fast.
Yeah.
You know, so, uh, we've got TanyaMahan from the FIFA World Cup
Organization, so that'll be great.
(15:31):
we have, people from Los Angeleswho were looking at the World
Cup, you know how cities.
Approach and deal with mega events likethis from a transit point of view could
not be more important because transitis really at the heart of whether you're
gonna have a successful event or not,because it involves moving vast numbers
(15:52):
of fans, uh, you know, across from, from,uh, yeah, venue to venue two, et cetera.
And doing that in a kind ofseamless way will really contribute
to the success of the event.
So one of the things you know atall, whether it's Commotion LA.
Or Commotion Miami.
But over the last couple of years, therehas been a big focus on mega events.
(16:14):
Yeah.
And of course in LA where we haveour Commotion LA conference, we also
have not only the World Cup nextyear, but in 2028, the Olympics.
Right.
Which, you know, is aother kind of challenge.
I mean, it's just, you know,just a, a really big deal.
Yeah.
We did a recent episode of ourTransit Unplugged TV show there and,
uh, featuring, you know, how they'regetting ready for the Olympics.
(16:35):
We had con in on there to CO and abunch of other folks that the CIO
and um, actually it, it was ourbiggest watch show ever in California.
We had thousands of viewers in California.
Of course, they're all interestedin how they're gonna do a transit
First Olympics there and try tomove cars out of the equation.
Yeah.
But you know,
I, I think if you look at, you know,some of the other speakers, uh, yeah.
In Miami, like Michael Lynn Abnetfrom HNTB, uh, or Dimitri Ovv, uh,
(17:01):
the head of Uber Transit, everyone'sgonna be talking about mega events
and about, the World Cup, you know?
That's, that's right.
Really coming up fast.
And I saw Collie
Greenwood's gonna bethere too, from Marta.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Another great speaker that I reallyneed to mention is, of course,
Stacy Miller, who, mayor LevineKava, has appointed, to be the new
(17:21):
head of the Miami-Dade Departmentof Transportation and Public Works.
you know, she, she, I. Started, April 7th.
So this will really be the firstopportunity that, that she has
to give a vision of, of, of, ofwhat she has in mind over the
next few years, uh, in Miami-Dade.
So, very excited about that.
one of the things I love about yourconference too, John, is it's just
(17:42):
not like on buses and trains, likea lot of traditional transit, but
you've got aviation, you've gotvertical takeoff and landing vehicles
there, you've got all kinds of stuff.
who do you have coming,speaking kind of on that?
Anybody cool this year?
Yeah, I mean we have, um, Jobywill be there, you know, it's one
of the, the leaders in the space.
I'm not sure if anybody's is comingfrom Archer, uh, but Eve, which is
(18:04):
another EAL group, based, in Florida.
so we've got somebody
from the Paris airport, right.
Arab de, which is, uh, owns the, not onlythe Paris airports, but owns a bunch of
other airports in France and in Europe.
Oh, wow.
So they're, they're a big actor in thekind of aviation space, in Europe and
thinking very proactively about how,electric, vertical takeoff and landing
(18:29):
aircraft can be, integrated into,airport, uh, right systems in the future.
When people go to the commotion, uh, it'snot just walking outside a lot of times Is
it gonna be outside, by the way, your expothis year where people get to see It's,
it's, it's sort of in and out.
Okay.
I mean, the sessions will be inside right.
Air conditioned and we are in my.
(18:49):
Um, but there is, you know, you can,there are a lot of things outside and,
you know, we're not a trade show, butwe encourage people to kind of bring
gadgets to look at or, or vehicles.
'cause I, you know, it's,it's always nice sort of.
Yeah.
You know, kicking in the tires.
I love that.
That's what I love about it for sure.
We're gonna showcase some of that onour show too, but tell us more about,
(19:11):
uh, I love your evening receptions.
You know, you have some greatwork sessions, a challenge.
Talk to us about what else peoplewill experience when they're
at CoMotion Miami this year I.
Well, you mentioned, uh, the challengeand this year, um, we're partnering with
the Miami Innovation Authority, which is afairly new, entity, of Miami-Dade County.
(19:31):
they support, a whole varietyof early stage growth companies
to come up with sort of.
various kinds of technologicalinnovations to make Miami-Dade,
better adapted to citizens' needs.
And a lot of what theylook at is mobility.
So they're doing a challenge thisyear, which we're helping out with.
And so we'll be hearing from some of thecompanies involved in that challenge.
(19:53):
So I'm really excited about that.
As you say, there's always a lot ofside events and I think a big part
of, you know, the value of Commotionis meeting people and, you know,
building your net, your own network.
And, uh, you know, often it's in sortof informal discussions in the corridor
or or over a beer at night where youreally learn things and you've come away
(20:16):
with deep insights about the direction.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love, uh, I love all those things.
Last time I was in Miami withyou two years ago, I remember
the opening reception, man,you had a DeLorean right there.
And, uh, of course that's, you know,the coolest car ever, you know,
for those of us of a certain age.
Remember back to the future.
So love all the kind of neatthings you've got going on there.
(20:38):
what is the mission for CoMotion?
What's your, what's your game plan?
I mean, ultimately, look, I mean, ourmission is, you know, we believe in
a future of, you know, sustainable,seamless, multimodal mobility in cities.
We think that.
The seamlessness is a reallykey, element in the future.
(20:58):
You know, the future is multimodal and oneof the really interesting things that we
look at is all the amazing new modes ofmobility that are coming down the pike.
And you mentioned, you know, advanced airmobility options and, and you're right, we
were very, very early on, I think in thevery first, commotion LA eight years ago.
(21:20):
We in fact had a discussion of advancedair mobility and no one had really
thought about it, was thinking aboutit back then, but it, it is going
to be part of an urban region's,um, mobility options in the future.
Yep.
And instead of, you know, getting in a,in a Uber, uh, to go to LAX, if you live
(21:41):
in Hollywood Hills, for example, right.
You're gonna hop on in an electricvertical takeoff and landing aircraft
and do that trip in five minutes.
That would may maybeotherwise take an hour.
Yeah, I can't wait for that.
Yeah,
I, I want an autonomous vitol tocome and land in my front yard.
Pick me up for $99 and take me to theroof of the ft. A building in downtown dc.
(22:03):
Beat all that traffic.
It's about an hour drive.
I bet you we could do it in 15 minutes.
So
yeah,
the Eastern, I mean, it's a
future that is startingto come into focus.
Same way you have.
you know, I think we were among thefirst to start talking about maritime
mobility and we see that also, youknow, a lot of cities are on the water.
That's right.
(22:24):
and you know how you get frompoint A to point B. Officially
could involve a trip on the water.
Yes.
That doesn't have to be Venice.
It could also be NewYork City, for example.
That's right.
Or Washington dc I was just therethis last week with Randy Clark.
We were doing an episode featuringhow to get around Washington DC
using transit instead of cars.
Yep.
And, uh, we rode the water taxi, right,right behind, uh, you know, Georgetown
(22:45):
across, uh, across the water from there.
So Georgetown Park, it was great.
One of the other great things you'reworking on, John, that you and I
are in alignment on is the power ofhydrogen, as a, as a new sustainable,
you know, zero emission fuel.
Of course, here in America, we haveseven hydrogen hubs that were outlined
in the, IAJA, uh, that were fundedand they're starting to come into
focus, but it's still very slow.
(23:06):
Feels like we're dragging ourfeet on hydrogen a little bit.
What's going on with hydrogenaround the world and what,
what are you doing with it?
Yeah.
Thank you for mentioning that because,um, it's something that we've always
looked at somewhat at commotion.
certainly hydrogen for, uh, trucking,heavy duty trucking is yeah, is a
really important use case becauseyou just can't get batteries.
(23:27):
You know, they're gonna be so big and soheavy to propel, a truck long distances
that there won't be any room for cargo.
And so the great thing about hydrogenis that it has four to five times
the energy of lithium iron batteries.
And so you can really Go the distance,which is why, for example, Joby, who I
mentioned, which is one of the players inthe electric vertical takeoff and landing
(23:50):
aircraft is very advanced in hydrogenbecause they recognize that a battery
powered, Little aircraft that needs alot of power to, to rise vertically.
if you use batteries, you'renot gonna have a lot of range.
And so they retrofitted one oftheir evals for, fuel hydrogen
(24:10):
fuel cell and had a test flightlast summer of close to 600 miles.
Wow.
That completely opens up a newkind of regional mode of, demand
driven, sustainable transportation,you know, getting from your house
to perhaps not to, the center ofWashington, but maybe to a suburb.
(24:31):
New York City.
Yeah.
New York City.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's only a four hour drive, so yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
And so tell me about theMonaco Hydrogen Alliance.
What is that and
what do you do?
Yeah, we set that up aroundfour years ago as a nonprofit.
it so happens that we've actually donea lot of work in Monaco over the years,
and I'm quite friendly with, uh, princeAlbert, the, the ruler of Monaco, who's
(24:55):
a very open-minded individual, is.
Almost completely focused on fightingclimate change and, coming up
with sort of zero carbon solutionsfor, you know, transportation.
there are, I think about 300electric charging stations in Monaco.
They're all free.
Anybody can use them andcharge up your car for free.
(25:17):
we felt that.
The world needed a kind of reallyfocused initiative on mobility and
renewable hydrogen, green hydrogen,and to look at the sort of the next
generation of planes, trains, trucks,boats that will be running on hydrogen.
This is not something for tomorrow.
There are some pain pointsabout using hydrogen.
(25:39):
It's a very, very small atom.
Indeed.
It's the smallest, it's the mostabundant atom in the universe, by the
way, the most abundant element, butit's a tricky one because it's so small.
the atoms can leak out.
So you have to take.
extra care not to have that happen.
you know, it's combustible.
It's, it's so, it's, it's not so easy.
but what's interesting, really,really interesting about the hydrogen
(26:03):
space is that the innovationsare starting to happen now.
If you think about batteryelectric, it's really been 20 years.
Where the greatest minds in theworld have been focused on how
to make batteries more efficient.
That's just starting nowin the hydrogen space.
And some of the things we're learning isthat we can really bring down the costs
(26:25):
of producing, of, of making hydrogen, ofstoring it, of transporting it, et cetera.
So I think, you know, these arethings that are coming down the pike.
It's very, very exciting.
I don't think we're gonna see hydrogen.
We have, there are hydrogen cars, butI think the widespread adoption, a
kind of hi, a hydrogen powered Tesla.
(26:47):
I think that's not for the next few years.
I think trucking is certainlygoing to happen pretty soon.
they're already hydrogen poweredtrains and the beauty of hydrogen is
completely, Friendly to the environment.
The only thing that comes out of thetailpipe is water, drops of water.
there's no carbon involved, so it's avery, very exciting space, and again,
(27:09):
precisely because of the new kindsof technologies that are, that are,
that are, we're starting to see acrossthe whole value chain of hydrogen.
And as you know, it's, uh, it'sreally starting to take the
transit industry buses by storm.
My good friend Kurt Conrad, who is CEO ofthe Stark Area Regional Transit Authority
in Canton, Ohio, where the NFL FootballHall of Fame is, he wrote a chapter in
(27:31):
my latest book, the New Future PublicTransportation, and he heads up the mid,
I don't know what it's called, but it'sin, it's like the central part of America.
They've got a center of excellenceand, uh, my friend Mikel Oglesby kind
of got it started in Sunlight Transitout there, in, uh, in south of la and.
Dorn Barnes, CEO of, uh, foothills hasreally, he's got the largest fleet in
America of, absolutely hydrogen buses.
And so I, I'm excited about this.
(27:53):
Very,
very forward.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm excited about it, John, and lookforward to continuing to help you
promote hydrogen fuel, uh, both herein the United States and around the
world because I think it is a greatsustainable, and Ed is, in my mind,
ed is almost ready for prime time.
Based on the people I'vetalked to and the bus industry.
and so I think it's our time now forhydrogen fuel, so I'm excited about it.
(28:13):
And the issue is
really kind of infrastructureand, and, yeah, that's right.
Don't we have to build outhydrogen infrastructure?
So it's, it's always theeternal chicken and egg.
I,
what comes first until the demand is
there, they're not gonnabuild the infrastructure, but.
If there's no infrastructure, thedemand won't be there, but it,
it, it's gonna happen for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
great.
Well, you can hear more aboutthis and learn more about all the
(28:34):
things we've talked about todayat John's upcoming CoMotion Miami.
It's gonna be held Tuesday and Wednesday,April 29th and 30th in Miami, Florida.
I. And, uh, if you're interestedin attending, there's still
time for you to sign up.
It's at CoMotion miami.com.
Again, C-O-M-O-T-I-O-N miami.com.
You can learn more andyou can register there.
We'll be filming, as I mentioned, transitUnplugged TV and episode there, hopefully
(28:58):
interviewing a few folks for the podcast.
John, as always, thank you for yourleadership in our industry and for
sharing a few moments, uh, with us today,from tour in Italy on what's coming
up and what's going on in your world.
It's always a delight toexchange with you, Paul.
Really, I just, I love, uh,talking with you about our favorite
subject, the future of transit.
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