"I Need Some Fatherly Advice." - A Transit Leadership Transition Story

Passing the Torch at GRITS:

In this episode of Transit Unplugged, Paul Comfort speaks live from the Kentucky Transit Association Trade Show with Dan Lanham and Michael Hughes of GRITS transit service. As Dan prepares to retire after nearly two decades and Michael steps up from Assistant Director to take over, they discuss the smooth leadership transition process. Dan reflects on his tenure and plans for retirement while Michael outlines his vision and priorities for the future, emphasizing the importance of hiring the right people and maintaining employee retention. The conversation also highlights the multi-month preparation and training that ensured a seamless transition and continued success for the agency.

Creator, Host & Producer — Paul Comfort 

Executive Producer — Julie Gates 

Producer — Chris O'Keeffe

Associate Producer — Cyndi Raskin 

Special thanks to:

Brand Design — Tina Olagundoye 

Social Media — Tatyana Mechkarova 

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
All right, Paul Comfort here at theKentucky Transit Association Trade
Show where a couple hundred peoplehave gathered, and I'm excited today
on the Transit Unplugged to talk totwo of my friends who are involved
in a transition between leadership.
Say hello.
Hey guys, Dan and Mike, and we'regonna be talking to them today about
transitioning kind of the top job.
The transportation director for GRITS.

(00:24):
Which is a big transitagency here in Kentucky.
I did have grits this morningfor breakfast, but that's
not what we're talking about.
So we're gonna talk about howthey are making the transition.
Dan is leaving this Friday and he's takenthe last few months to transition to
Michael who's gonna talk today about howthey did that transition, how it works,
plus a little about their background.
I think you'll find it's a fascinatingepisode of Transit Unplugged.

(00:49):
And we're diving into ourconversation with Dan Lanham
and Michael Hughes from GRITS.
And if you're listening and youcan hear some background noise.
That's 'cause we're onthe trade show floor.
It's one of our fun live podcasts.
We're doing it from the TripSpark booth.
Thanks for being on the show, guys.
Well, thanks for having us Paul.
It's exciting and it's an exciting timefor me because I'm gonna transition,

(01:11):
and it's an exciting time for Michaelbecause he's transitioning too.
Yeah, man.
And, you know, we startedoff together when I went to
GRITS 19 and a half years ago.
Michael was there.
He was just a puck.
He was a young man.
But I told him, I said, "I'm gonnawork with you and make sure that

(01:32):
you're ready to make that step whenthe time comes for you." It's funny,
we worked together for about six years.
He went on to be a director in anotherprogram, then came back to Owensboro
and was a director of our fixed routeservice there for six or seven years.
Then he went into private business.

(01:52):
And then when I started planning myretirement, I called him up and I said,
"Hey, what are you doing?" And he said,"Well, I'm kinda looking for something
now." And the timing was just perfect.
Michael, tell us alittle about your story.
Well, you know what's interesting, Paul,is I started in public transit in 2004.
And a couple years after that,Dan came on board and you know,

(02:16):
Dan and I are about 20 years apartand he came from the construction
industry is what he came from.
And, you know, we hit it off immediately.
We worked great together and likehe said, in 2010, I made my way to
Paducah for the transit authority.
There was the executive directorfor a year, then it came back to
Owensboro, ran the fixed route service.
Did that for about fourand a half, five years.
And then, believe it or not, I gotinto the construction business.

(02:38):
He's like the son, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
So I spent about almost about 10years in the construction business.
And what's very ironic about thiswhole story is Dan's almost right
exactly 20 years older than I am.
Our birthdays are about three monthsapart, but he was my age currently
today when he took this rollover asthe executive director, as I am today.

(02:59):
So here we are exactly 20 yearslater, pretty much to almost
the date and I'm taking over.
So it's just ironic howthings in life work.
It is, and that's what I wanna talk about.
It's a great setup, guys, you know,I did a keynote speech this morning.
I talked about five traits of transitleaders and one of 'em was competence.
Making sure that when peopleget promoted to a position

(03:19):
that they're prepared for it.
Too many times, people get given a joband they're not ready and it's like we put
'em out on a limb and then we saw it outbehind them if they are not ready for it.
But you all have done something veryunusual, I think, which is take a
multi-month process in addition tothe time you spent there earlier.
Tell me, Dan, about the process ofwhen you decided you were gonna retire.

(03:40):
Walk me through that and what made youthink of bringing Michael back and just
walk us through and then I'll ask youthe same thing from your perspective.
Well, I actually told the agency I wasgonna retire about a year and a half ago.
So you gave him plenty of lead time?
I gave him plenty of time.
Because we've grown a lot.
We start off with about a$3 million a year budget.
Now we're at 25 million a year.

(04:01):
And, although I went there with notransit experience, it's not the same
animal it was all those years ago.
So I was concerned.
I mean, I've got a lot of blood, sweat,tears, and sleepless nights invested,
and I wanted to make sure that there wassomebody that was taking over that could
take the reins and do a good job with it.

(04:23):
So I started kind of sorting throughpeople in my mind, and Michael and I
have stayed in touch all these years.
We'd go have lunch together andtalk to each other on the phone
and I was hoping maybe the timingwould work out even though he was
moved on to a different industry.
So when it came time, I contacted himand said "Hey, you know, here's what's

(04:44):
happening. He said, well, I'm kindalooking for something right now." And so
I needed an assistant director to come in.
He came in-
How long ago was that?
About six months, I guess.
Six months or four months, Michael?
And, so the timing was perfect.
I couldn't be happier, more excited,more proud that he's gonna take my place.

(05:04):
'Cause I know he is gonna do a great joband I'm not changing my phone number so
he knows how to get in touch with me.
And, and you're done on Friday?
We're talking on Wednesday.
You got two days left in thisgig and then you're done.
I got two days left.
I was gonna leave a little earlierin the month, but,you know, I've
been involved in this organization.
We're at the KentuckyPublic Transit Association.
Yeah.
Yeah, for for 19 and a half years,and I wanted to come back and

(05:27):
say goodbye to all my friends.
Yeah, that's good.
Alright, Michael, tell usfrom your perspective how this
all worked, this transition.
And then I wanna unpack what theactual process is that you've
used to kind of transition all theresponsibilities over to Michael.
You know, Paul, in this industry, andDan has always said this, if you took
everybody in this country that knew aboutpublic transit in the transit industry,

(05:50):
you couldn't fill up a high school gym.
And that's true.
There's not a lot of us in thisindustry that understand the business.
So, you know, anytime you're looking for,you know, management or director in this
industry, you know, you start looking atyour network, look at the people that you
know, people that's been in the industry.
You know, and I always had inthe back of my mind that I,
someday I would come back to this.
I've always enjoyed public transit.

(06:10):
It's been a great industry.
As you can see, people in thisindustry, such as this association
conference we're having this week.
You know, we're one big family.
Everybody works together, everybody talkstogether, tries to understand, you know,
how can we make our agencies better?
Everybody synergizes what they try to do.
So, you know, it really worked outfor the both of us, so to speak.
The transition period's gonna be easy.

(06:30):
I know it gives Dan a peace of mindknowing that he's gonna walk out and it's
not gonna be a disaster, or someone'snot gonna have to figure out what to
do every day, you know, because a lotof the processes are still the same.
Some things have changed,some things have not.
So it's really easy for me tocome in and just kind of float
into things and take off with it.
So it's gonna be a good transition period.
So when he called you, you knewyou were coming in basically for

(06:50):
a short period of time to be theassistant moving, into the top job.
Is that right?
Yeah.
And you know, it's interestingthat you say that 'cause.
You know, when Dan first called me andsaid, "Hey, you know, the assistant
director position's come open, andby the way, I'm retiring, you know,
here in a few months, so we need toget you in here." And I'll be honest
with you, Paul, I struggled with it.
And, and finally one day, I called him andsaid, "Hey, you at your office." He said,

(07:10):
"Yeah." I said, "I'm gonna come by." SoI closed the door and I said, "Everything
off the table with agency you work for.
I need some fatherly advice." You know,because I always looked at him and
stuff like that, and I said, "I needyou to talk to me like I'm your son.
What would you do?" Because I wasreally struggling with it, you know?
What were you struggling about?
I was just struggling with justcoming back in the industry, coming
back as an assistant director.
Because you'd been in construction.
I'd been in construction sideand, you know, I've had my

(07:33):
state retirement, it was there.
I knew I needed to finish that up.
So I, you know, in my mind I was juststruggling with the right decision to
make and I just asked him, you know,all things aside, put this, the agency
aside, I need some fatherly advice.
What would you tell your son?
And so we had that discussion andhere I am, I'm sitting here today.
And, I couldn't be more happy either.
It's just this whole entire timinghas worked out perfect for everybody.

(07:54):
That's wonderful.
Alright, Dan, now unpack theresponsibilities that you have as director
and how you have transitioned them.
'Cause you told me the otherday, " Paul, I haven't gotten any
emails." So they're already makingthe transition in their mind.
Obviously the staff is,tell me about that process.
And what did you learn and whatwould you do different or whatever.
Being a director of a programthe size that we are now.

(08:17):
Yeah.
Tell us about your agency the size.
'cause we haven't gotten into that yet.
We are a broker provider in theMidwest part of the State of Kentucky.
Okay.
We cover about 22 counties.
We're responsible for about 2,500 tripsper day using our own vehicles, and
plus, using 12 or 13 subcontractors.

(08:39):
So it's a pretty good size animal.
And, we got about 110 driversof our own, about 105 vehicles.
So, it's a pretty good size problem.
Yeah.
But I was on vacation with my wifeone time and I'd gotten about four
phone calls in a row and she said,"Can't they run that place without

(09:00):
you?" And I said, "I sure hope not."
But, the transition really has been easy.
Michael and I, you know, wehave a relationship and I knew
he knew what he was doing.
I just tried to explain, here's where weare on this, here's where we are on that.
'Cause when you let go of something likethat, there's a lot of stuff in process.

(09:23):
Yeah.
And so I've had to try and explainthe process and where we are and
what I thought the future was.
But other than that he'spicked up and took off running.
He didn't have to, you know, somebodyfrom outside the industry or whatever
would have to learn even the terminology.
Right.
So let's talk aboutthat for a minute then.
What's the value when you move to the topjob of having somebody that, now he's been

(09:47):
outta the industry for a little while, buthe worked at this agency for six years.
He had it already kindof in his blood, right?
Oh, absolutely.
And that's what has madethe transition so easy.
I was just terrified I was going toend up with about two or three weeks
to try and teach somebody here'sthe bus and what it looks like.
Right.
And, but you know, he knew all thatwe had worked together and most

(10:12):
of the staff after 19 and a halfyears has turned over, you know.
He still knew a few of the folks andit's been a really easy transition.
That's good.
Michael, tell us aboutit from your perspective.
What exactly has happened?
I'd like to like, makea template for people.
So do you feel like you'reprepared and if so, what did
you guys do to become prepared?

(10:33):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm preparedand a lot of it, as we talked this
morning, in your speech, you know, alot of it is life learned experiences.
That's right.
You know, just the experience thatI have grown in the industry since
2004, you know, especially goingto Paducah and then coming back to
Owensboro, running the fixed route.
So, you know, not only the ADAparatransit side of it, but the
fixed route side that I know as well.
So, you know, it's been mylifelong experiences that

(10:54):
make this transition easy.
You know, it's like I talked to youearlier, you know, I'm concerned right
now I'm gonna have to hire an assistantdirector and I would prefer to hire
someone from within the industry versussomeone from outside the industry.
Yes, I'm prepared to teachsomebody and groom somebody
to learn like I have learned.
But we'll see what that looks like.
Again, with the transition with usit's gonna be seamless and it's, you

(11:16):
know, it's good for our customers.
It's good for the agency.
There's a lot of other people that,other stakeholders involved in this.
Not just us personally, butyou know, our office staff, our
customers that we serve every day.
You know, we don't want them to be, youknow, to feel any of this whatsoever.
Right.
Seamless, right.
Yeah.
This transition will becompletely seamless for everybody.
So, when Dan brought you in, hebrought you in as kind of the number

(11:36):
two person, assistant director.
So what responsibilitieshave you currently had and
which will be new on Monday?
You know what's interesting, Paul isin 2004 when I came to this agency, I
was hired as the assistant director.
And, I came back here a few months agoas the assistant director once again,
almost 21 years later to the day.
That's wild.
Yeah, so, you know-

(11:57):
Lateral move.
Yeah.
Lateral move.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, you know, my responsibilities hererecently, of course, have been, you
know, mainly dealing with most of oursubcontractors, contracts with them.
Okay.
All that sort of thing.
Of course now you know, I'm gonnabe responsible for everything.
The drivers that you, your employees.
That's right.
And the budget.
That's right.
My employees, budget.
I am a numbers guy.
I enjoy numbers, I enjoy budgets.

(12:18):
I've had a lot of experience in that.
So yeah, now I'm gonna beresponsible for everything.
However-
Have you already had some training?

Has Dan showed you (12:24):
here's the budget, here's how all this works.
Absolutely.
Okay, good.
Absolutely.
You know, but what I've gotta make sure ofis I've got a good team underneath of me.
Yeah.
'cause Michael can't do everything andMichael doesn't wanna do everything.
You know, I, I wanna makesure I have a good team.
Everybody does whatthey're supposed to do.
My philosophy is let'swork smarter, not harder.
Let's make this workseamlessly for everybody.
So, I'm looking forward to it.

(12:44):
It's gonna be a challenge.
You know, I know the growththat we have seen in this
industry since I started 2004.
It's just, it's tremendous.
And Dan has made his mark on it.
So now it's my turn.
You know, I'm looking to the futureof what's it gonna look like in
the future, you know, what canI do to make this thing better?
And, uh, what's it gonna looklike when I get ready to retire?
And then hopefully I can groomsomebody to take the reins and I can

(13:06):
walk away and feel good about it.
That's good.
When we come back after this word,we're gonna talk to Dan and Mike about,
their journeys and how they got to wherethey're at and what Dan expects to do
on the golf course or wherever whenhe's retired, right after this word.
Thanks for listening to theTransit Unplugged Podcast.
We are so glad you're here.
If you're enjoying this show, we knowyou'll love our other transit industry

(13:29):
programs on Transit Unplugged TV.
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You can find out more attransitunplugged.com Now back to

(13:50):
Paul Comfort for this edition of theaward-winning Transit Unplugged Podcast.
Alright, we're back at the Kentucky PublicTransportation Association's Conference
in Lexington, Kentucky, and I'm withmy friends Michael, who was taking over
as the transportation director fromDan, here at GRIT's transit service.
Dan, what's grits stand forother than my breakfast?

(14:11):
Well, yeah.
I have people who've said tome, does that stand for grannies
riding it to town safely?
But it does not.
That's funny.
It's Green RiverIntra-county Transit System.
Okay.
All right.
The Green River runs through that partof Kentucky, almost through every county.
Oh, I gotcha.
So, people think of us, we actuallylive in Owensboro, Kentucky, which

(14:32):
is on the Ohio, but the Greenruns all through there as well.
Okay.
Ties into the Ohio.
Ties into the Mississippi.
But I like that, grannyriding into town safely.
There you go.
That's a good one, man.
That's funny.
Alright, so you wanted to tellme just a little bit more about
unpack the exact process you usedto kind of get Michael ready.
Well, like I said, the timing wasjust luck probably as much as anything

(14:54):
because, I needed an assistantdirector, he was looking for something.
I called him up and said, "Hey, I wantyou to consider this, to apply for it." So
the agency set up the interview process.
Michael went throughthe interview process.
They had several applicants,but he stood out because of his
experience and his personality.

(15:17):
He's got the right personality,the right experience, the right
connections with people in the state.
So he was selected.
Once he got selected, then Istarted working on, okay, here's
the budget, here's what we have.
Took him out, showed him some ofthe new features on vehicles, 'cause
he hadn't seen that in a while.
We have a couple of regional offices,went and visited with the people there.

(15:38):
Michael's great about walking up topeople and he sees in the hallway
saying, "Hey, I'm the new guy, MichaelHughes." And so he got to know the
people, got to know the budget, gotto know the process that we're doing
now, that some things are a little bitdifferent and, got familiar with the
agency and how it's operating today.

(15:59):
That's good.
Yeah.
And Michael, when you went throughall that, what surprised you?
As you went through the trainingthat maybe you weren't used
to, Oh, that's interesting.
Well, you know, Paul livingthere in Owensboro, of course
everybody in Owensboro knows GRITS.
GRITS has always been astaple of the community.
You know, and I've known that theagency has grown tremendously.
Used to, when I was there early on, inearly 2000s, everybody knew everybody.

(16:21):
We probably had 40, 50 employeesand everybody knew everybody.
You knew their families.
And so now it's a little more difficult.
You know, you've got a hundredplus employees there now, and it's
hard to get to know everybody.
And all the contractors you have.
Just all the contractors that we have,and I'm working right now to build
relationships with our subcontractors.
Even to the point of one night thisweek I had, me and Dan had dinner
with one of our subcontractors.

(16:42):
You know, so it's about buildingrelationships with people.
Is what it's about.
So you know, again, it's madethe transition really simple.
I love the concept of bringing somebodyin and having a healthy crossover period
so that it's not, like you said youhire somebody and they got two weeks.
Sometimes people have less than that.
Yeah.
Sometimes somebody got fired and theygotta bring somebody in right away.
So this is a very nice, and I'll beinterested to see, I'm gonna ask you

(17:05):
in a minute, what do you got planned?
But what do you got planned, Dan?
Now that you're gonna,Friday's your last day?
What's the game plan here?
I'd like to do some consulting.
I want your job.
Oh, yeah.
I think you got the best job in the world.
You're right.
But I'd like to do some consulting,if people are willing to pay me
for my opinions and my knowledge.
A lot of the lessons I've learnedin transit, I learned the hard way.

(17:25):
Yep.
I think I do have thingsthat could help people.
I've also got a friend in acar business and I love cars.
Always have.
And so I've been helping him
Like, do what?
Sell 'em or fix 'em?
Well, maybe that too, and youknow he's a car broker basically.
Okay.
People come to him and they'relooking for a certain vehicle.

(17:46):
He goes and finds it for him.
Yeah.
Then somebody go pick itup and that kind of thing.
And so I'm looking forwardto doing some of that and-
What about with your free time?
You got any hobbiesyou hope to pick up or?
I play golf poorly, but I do play itand I've got a lot of good friends that
I went to college and high school withthat are still around and we like to,

(18:08):
you know, take some day trips and stuffand go eat some good food and enjoy life.
See a few ball gamesand that type of thing.
Yeah.
I love that, Dan.
I think it's important that when peopleretire, they don't completely unplug.
Because I've heard so many people,you know, kind of your purpose in
life is wrapped up somewhat in yourwork, and if you just completely

(18:29):
unplug, you know, you kind of loseyour reason to get up in the morning.
Some people say.
Yeah, I don't want, you know, afterI've watched all of Netflix, I
need to find something else to do.
There you go.
All right, now let'sswitch over to Michael.
All right, Michael, you gotthe opposite thing happening.
That's right.
You're gonna have your platecompletely full in three days, baby.
Tell me
about it.
I do.
Uh, you know, it's gonna beinteresting next few weeks.

(18:50):
I've gotta get someone hired.
So yeah, I'll be kind of, you know,carrying on two or three ropes.
Like replacing your job.
Right?
Replacing my job.
So I'll have a couple ropes hereto take care of, which is fine.
I can, I can handle it.
Yeah.
You know, so I've got a lot of things onmy mind right now, as you can imagine.
The past several, you know, weeks andmonths I've just been sitting back trying
to take a snapshot of what all's going on.

(19:10):
You know, kind of reviewing our staffand just kind of getting some ideas
of what we may need to change or notchange or what we may need to do.
You know, the biggest thing that Isee, just like any other employer
is maintaining and retaining,and getting hired employees.
Everybody you talk to, I don't care whatbusiness you're in, everybody's looking
for employees and, you know, we wannamake sure that we hire the right people.

(19:30):
I tell people every day, this is aboutthe mission, not about the money.
You're not gonna get rich workingfor me at this agency and doing
this type of work, but it's about.
It's like you said this morning,it's about serving other people.
That's right.
If you love to serve people,this is a place for you.
If you don't like serving people,you don't need to be here.
Yeah.
It's all about the missionis what this job's about.
And, you know, we wanna bringpeople on board that understand that

(19:51):
and have a heart to serve people.
And if we do that we'llhire the right people.
And, you know, we willlower our retention.
You know, we want our retentionto stay high, and right now
it's not where we want it to be.
So that's one thing that's onmy radar is hiring good people
that wanna focus on serving otherpeople and retaining those people.
That's good.
That's a big priority of mine rightnow, is making sure we do that.

(20:11):
Are you gonna have like a kickoff meetingwith the staff in your first couple weeks?
Yeah, I've actually alreadygot a meeting scheduled.
We've already got that on thebooks for next week already.
So, I'll have a staff meetingwith all of our office staff
we're working on right now.
Actually yesterday, I sent an emailout to all of our staff and all of our
employees are drivers because I wannahave some meeting sessions with them.
So I put it out tothem, what's gonna work?
How do you all wanna do this?
What's your opinion?

(20:32):
Because I am concerned about whattheir thoughts and opinions are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we're gonna be having meetings withall the staff as well, so they can kind
of understand how I operate and, andwhat, you know, my train of thought.
That's good.
Dan, I'll give you the last wordssince you're the man out the door.
Any closing thoughts you wanna havefor, first off, let me thank you
for your service to the industry.
Well, thank you.
You and I have talked multiple timesover the last few years at conferences,

(20:53):
and you've always got a lot to share.
You've got a great personalitywhere we're gonna miss you, and
I hope you could stay involved.
Well, I appreciate that, Paul.
I really do.
And I've loved this industrybecause I always did like to be
involved in things that help people.
I've loved the people at the state thatwe've worked with here, and the people in
the KPTA, that part is bittersweet for me.

(21:14):
Yeah.
But, I do look forward to my phone notringing at five o'clock in the morning.
Now, my favorite expression aroundthe office, favorite three words are
"not my problem." But it's, it isbittersweet and I've enjoyed what I'm
doing, enjoyed the people I'm workingwith and, like Michael, I'm one of

(21:35):
those people who enjoys other people andhe's very much that kind of person too.
And so that part I'll miss, butI won't miss those 5:00 AM phone
calls with something crazy going on.
Yeah.
Thank you both for sharing with us thetransition process that you went through,
and I wish you both the best, next week.
Thanks Paul.

(21:58):
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