September 10, 2025 • 28 mins
In this Super September episode of Transit Unplugged, host Paul Comfort heads to Chicago to sit down with Nora Leerhsen, Acting President of the Chicago Transit Authority—America’s second-largest public transit system.
With more than 11,000 employees, a million daily riders, and an expanding footprint, the CTA plays a massive role in the life of the Windy City—and Nora is at the helm during a pivotal time. A lawyer and former educator who rose through the ranks from compliance officer to chief of staff and now acting president, Nora shares her deep belief in transit's power to uplift cities and people alike.
They discuss:
- How CTA is hitting post-pandemic ridership highs during special events like Lollapalooza
- The launch of the Frequent Network, boosting service on 20 core bus routes
- Nora’s unique path to leadership—and why a legal background helps navigate complexity
- CTA's all-hands approach to safety, from targeted police missions to new rider engagement programs
- The long-awaited Red Line Extension, bringing rail access to underserved South Side communities
- How partnerships with Metra, Pace, and RTA are shaping a more unified regional system
And yes—there’s even a nod to Ferris Bueller and the iconic rumble of the L.
“Transit is unmatched in the impact it can have on a city and on its trajectory,” says Nora. Tune in for a candid, energizing conversation about the past, present, and future of Chicago’s transit backbone.
Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo, passionate about moving the world’s people.
- Creator, Host & Producer — Paul Comfort
- Executive Producer — Julie Gates
- Producer & Newsletter Editor — Chris O’Keefe
- Associate Producer — Cyndi Raskin
Special thanks to:
- Brand Design — Tina Olagundoye
- Social Media — Tatyana Mechkarova
Got a question or comment? Email us at info@transitunplugged.com
Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent. This production belongs to Modaxo and may contain information subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual-property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
One of my favorite movies of alltime is Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
Right?
It's following his fun adventures allover Chicago and all the fun things he
does on the day he took off from school.
Well, that's where we're headed today: to Chicago, the Windy City, the Second (00:13):
undefined
City, and we're, we're talking to NoraLeerhsen, who's the acting president
of the Chicago Transit Authority.
I'm Paul Comfort, and this is TransitUnplugged, the world's number one public
transportation podcast where we talkto top executives around the world.
And this month of Septemberis Super September.
We're bringing you some of the topAmerican public transportation leaders.
(00:36):
Last week, if you didn't get achance to listen, go back and listen
to Demetrius Chrichlow's episode.
He's the head of New York City Transitand today we talk to the head of Chicago
Transit Authority, Nora Leerhsen.
And it's a great interview.
First time I've met her, wetalk about the agency itself.
It's massive.
What's happened with ridership,which is good news and what
(00:58):
they're doing about safety.
We talk about her background,her legal background.
She's an attorney, how she started incompliance and how that was a great place
to grow into the president's office.
We also talk about her vision and herphilosophy of the role that public
transportation plays, not only in Chicago,but in any community to really improve
the lives of the people they serve.
This is a wonderful interviewwith a great leader of this
(01:20):
agency, Nora Leerhsen in Chicago.
It's our second episodeof Super September.
Dig in and enjoy this wonderful interview.
Great to be with Nora Leerhsen,the acting President of the
Chicago Transit Authority.
Nora, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Super September and we've got New Yorkand Chicago, the one-two punch of the
(01:44):
biggest transit systems in America.
Tell us about Chicago Transit Authority.
Yes, happy to.
So we are the Chicago Transit Authority.
We have 11,400 employees.
We run 24 hours a day.
We have 2000 busestraveling, 127 bus routes.
1500 rail cars, travelingeight routes to 146 stations.
(02:07):
We serve an average of amillion people every day.
We have a $2.1 billion operating budget.
So a big agency serving a lotof people and very proud of it.
That's awesome.
And so tell us about themodes that operate there.
So you've got the bus, you kindof went through a little bit, but
what kind of rail do you operate?
Yeah, we have eight rail lines acrossthe whole system, 146 rail stations.
(02:31):
And on our bus side wehave 127 bus routes.
Our buses travel nearly 150,000miles every weekday, using 2000
buses across our fleet to do so.
And we serve the city of Chicagoand 35 surrounding suburbs.
Wow.
Big time man.
Wow.
That's something.
I mean, everybody who've been dealingwith post COVID ridership increases
(02:53):
people trying to get their ridership up.
I think that you guys have been doingpretty good at that, what I've seen.
What are you doing in Chicago when itcomes to bringing people back to transit,
and what's helping make them wanna ride?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the last few weeks we've actuallyseen some of our highest ridership in
years and we're really excited about it.
So, particularly with our special events,we see that people are back on transit.
(03:16):
You know, they're back on transit acrossour summer special events in a way that
even exceeds our pre pandemic numbers,which I know is the barometer that
everybody's using in the transit world.
Yeah.
Uh, but you know, the week ofLollapalooza, for example, which is a
huge festival in Chicago, that was ourbiggest ridership week since 2019.
So, we're hitting record numbers,since the past few years.
(03:39):
Actually an interesting fact, theVentra system is the account that
people have to pay fare on our system.
So we track those numbers andin our Ventra accounts, we
actually have more Ventra accountholders than we did in 2019.
So people are back on CTA, they're ofcourse traveling differently still,
given the remote work impact and theway in which our world has changed.
(04:01):
But they're back.
They're traveling in different patterns.
We're regularly hitting amillion riders every day.
So our service is also back.
In the pandemic, like othertransit agencies got hit with
a lot of resignations andlost a lot of our workers.
But in the past two years, we'vehired more than 5,000 people,
(04:22):
and so we actually, yeah.
Yeah.
We actually have more bus operatorsthan we did before the pandemic.
We have 95% of employees on ourrail side, so we're really thriving
in terms of our service as well.
And of course, that'swhat brings people back.
People want frequent, reliable serviceand we know that front and center
from surveys and also just knowit from knowing our industry well.
(04:44):
So, we're excited about initiativesunderway to show that increase in service.
Particularly this year we launchedsomething called the Frequent Network.
Which is 20 bus routes across ourwhole system that we'll receive
10 minute or better service allday long every day of the week.
Many of those routes even getbetter than 10 minute service.
But this has been a key indicator of thehealth of our agency and to show that
(05:09):
we're ready for investment and ready tohit the ground running and grow, with even
more funds, in the coming years as well.
And, we see ridershipincrease on those routes.
So some of those key routes areseeing upwards of almost 20%
ridership increases year over year.
And it really shows that, myfield of dreams reference that
if you build it, they will come.
(05:31):
People will follow frequent service andthat's what they wanna see in transit.
So that's been a key focus.
You know, people in the transitworld also know safety and security.
The ridership experience isfront and center, and that's
been a focus of mine as well.
And really deepening our relationshipwith various stakeholders across that
arena, from social service agencies tothe police department, and thinking of
(05:55):
new and innovative ways to make surepeople have a pleasant riding experience,
and that those in need of support on oursystem are getting the support they need.
Yeah, my good friend Kevin Quinnalways says frequency is freedom.
And, uh,
yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Yeah.
He's the head of Vancouver now, but hewas here in Baltimore with me back a
while ago, and then ran it himself,,did an amazing job as CEO there.
(06:17):
One of the other things thatCTA has been focused on is
safer, cleaner, more reliable.
Tell us about what you've beendoing to improve kind of the
day-to-day rider experience.
So I mentioned that partnership with thepolice department and that's been huge
just to make sure people feel safe andsecure throughout their ride on CTA.
And we have a vast system, you know, 146stations covering Chicago and the suburbs.
(06:42):
So this is a vast systemto cover with resources.
So a focus of mine hasbeen working with them
on targeted missions,
a visibility for those officers.
So we have something called safetyoutreach missions where police are
deployed across our system and interactingwith riders, giving them tips about how to
ride safely and smartly and talking withthem, on their way and on their commute.
(07:05):
And we also work with them to talk aboutthe code of conduct on CTA to make sure
that people are following that code ofconduct and, behaving well on the system.
And I think that's been welcomedby riders just to create that sense
of order and safety on CTA, which
we hear in
a larger urban environment comes up a lot.
And, and I want people toknow that's front and center.
(07:26):
That's definitely in addition to,frequency and reliability as being
the primary driver for ridership.
So in addition to that frequent networkI mentioned and the addition of bus
service throughout this year, we'reworking on different things like the bus
tracker system, which, you know, reallyis what indicates people's faith in our
system having reliable information aboutwhen their bus and train is coming and
(07:50):
finding new ways all the time to improvethat information and expand upon it.
So we've added new features to thattracker this year that gives people even
more reliable information about whentheir next bus is coming, just to further
instill that trust in the informationcoming from CTA and that we're a great
ride and a great way to get places.
I was riding that red
(08:11):
tour bus in Chicago.
Chicago's one of my favorite citiesin the country, and whenever I
go there, the first time I alwaystake to take the tour bus around.
And on that bus, the driver mentionedthis book, Devil In The White City.
Mm-hmm.
It was all about the history ofChicago and the World's Fair of 1893.
This was like three yearsago, four years ago.
And I got down this rabbit holeof studying all this stuff about
(08:31):
the 1893 World's Fair, and how thetrains, really the L and all, kind
of got their start around that.
Right.
So you guys operate the L tellus about that a little bit.
I think that's the elevated trains.
People who are trainedmaniacs love the L, you know?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it, I appreciate youbringing up your experience.
Seeing the L as a visitor, because Ithink a lot of us can take it for granted
(08:53):
when we're rushing around in the morning.
But CTA is absolutely beautiful and Ithink that's one of our greatest assets,
is our beauty and the visual of whatthe elevated looks like running through
our city in this way over the river.
And, we have our name, the cityof Big Shoulders, but I often
think CTA kind of looks like theshoulders that carry our city.
(09:15):
And the rumbling sound of the elevatedis, it's why people are here, right?
That's right.
I mean, it's what drew people toChicago and the memories that people
have throughout their lives, onthe elevated system and on the CTA.
It just is what we all shareand kind of epitomizes what
it means to be a Chicagoan.
And, you know, how, how many moviesstart with that image, right?
(09:35):
Of the elevated trainrunning and you just know.
You're in the coolest city in the worldand that that's where this movie's set.
And all you have to do is showthe elevated to tell people that.
So yeah, we're really proud of that.
And you guys interact with severalother agencies, PACE and Metra, and
tell us about all that interaction, whodoes what and all that, because it's a
pretty interesting system, by the way.
(09:57):
It's similar.
I just did Detroit, I did a showthere and all kind of the same setup,
an RTA and then three operators.
So tell us about whatyou guys do in Chicago.
Yeah, so the Regional TransportationAuthority is an oversight entity over
the three service boards that are CTA,and then Metra is the commuter rail,
and PACE is the suburban bus system.
(10:17):
We do work closely together on serviceplanning and certainly right now we're
working with our state legislature to cometo a funding solution for CTA and we're
all very close partners in that effort.
We look at different ways tomake sure we're supporting riders
that cross between our systems.
So there's kind of key transfer pointswhere we work together our service
(10:37):
planning teams to make sure theservice is connecting as it should,
and that when riders are coming fromone service to another they have
that point of access between us.
We do studies together, you know, withPACE since we both have a bus service.
We do work together to dovision studies about how bus
service should flow throughout.
We share an interest in the improvementsof bus street infrastructure to
(11:01):
make sure we're having our busesflow as quickly as possible, so we
work together on strategizing aroundthat and as well as our fare system.
You know, we're always looking togrow our collaboration there as well.
And we just launched this summer,a regional day pass where people
can use, fare across our wholesystems using that day pass.
So, working together, alwayscommitted to continuing to build
(11:22):
that relationship as well to createthat sense of a unified system.
Okay, so let's go into your journey some.
You've been there for a while.
Tell us about what you've done.
You've risen from what you were aproject coordinator or something when you
started, and now you've worked way all the
way up to the acting president.
Congratulations, by the way.
I should have started with that,but it's not really new anymore.
You've been there a little while,but tell us about your journey.
(11:42):
Thank you.
Yeah, I started at CTAjust under 11 years ago.
I started in the law departmentas someone working in compliance,
which sounds like kind of boring,but you actually learn a ton.
'Cause I ran the audits with theFederal Transit Administration.
Oh yeah.
Which cover every aspect of our work.
So you really get to learnevery department how they keep
(12:05):
all their records, and theresponsibilities that they all have.
So it was a fascinatingplace to start the work here.
I had come out of law school and Iactually interned here as a legal intern.
Okay.
And really fell in love with transit andthe impact that it has on people's lives.
As an intern here, I was working onthe background check policy for hiring
(12:26):
to adjust to new federal guidelines,advising that you had to take a factor
analysis into people's backgrounds andyou had to manage conviction history
in a certain way in compliance withthe law, and it was thrilling for me.
I came from being a public schoolteacher and a historian of civil
rights history, very passionate aboutgovernment working for people and
(12:49):
correcting the wrongs of our history'spast, and transit is just kind of
unmatched in terms of the impact it canhave on a city and on its trajectory.
And I just fell in love withthe dynamic aspect of transit
and what it provides for people.
So I started there and I also worked inthe safety department, which was also
(13:11):
an incredible experience after that.
'cause compliance has to do alot also with safety audits.
So I was conducting a lot of those.
When the federal government first issuedthe Safety Management Systems policies,
I was here at CTA and learned a lotabout those and how to implement them.
Then I was put on a detail assignmentto the president's office about
(13:32):
eight years ago, and I've never left.
So, I came here to help the presidentand the chief of staff, chief
operating officer at that time.
And, was just immediately attractedto the impact you can have here
from a policymaking perspective.
I'm a lawyer by training.
I've never billed an hour.
However, feel very passionate aboutpolicymaking and applying that
(13:54):
understanding of how law is made to dailydecision making and seeing that impact.
So that's been huge for me.
You know being here, in this officefor the past eight years means I
was here through the pandemic, whichwas definitely the most defining
experience of my career so far.
And I think has really definedour agencies in a different way
(14:17):
and managing through that crisisand never shutting down really was
a true lesson in leadership andmanagement of service in various ways.
So, for the past six years I waschief of staff, and then for the
past seven months I've been in thisleadership role as acting president.
Yeah.
I think the law is a greatbackground for a CEO.
I'm one too, and I know that it helpedme interact with our attorneys when
(14:39):
I was in that role and I just gavea speech this week in Kentucky and I
talked about when you get to the top ofan agency or an organization, all the
easy decisions have already been madebecause they're ones that have a template.
The ones that end up on Nora's deskare the ones without a template, where
you have to use judgment and wisdom.
And having that legal backgroundI'm sure helps, right?
(15:00):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, it's all gray once youget up to this part, right?
Yeah.
It's not black and white.
You gotta, so you have to have thatbackground in how to protect your
agency and make smart decisions.
I didn't go to law school until a littlebit later in life, however, so started my
career in public education in the Teachfor America program in Philadelphia,
and those years really shaped a lotof my focus in terms of working with
(15:24):
students in poverty and in schools inour country that we're in great need.
And that's what drives me very muchin my daily work, still in transit.
(16:40):
One of the things I really, admireabout what you're doing there is
you feel like spending time outon the system is so important.
Riding the buses, ridingthe trains, talking to the
riders, it's a big priority.
What have you heard from riders recently?
What's really stuck with you?
Yeah, we have a great program westarted this year called CTA Chats
where we're actually out on the system.
High level staff and staff from differentlevels gather together in groups and
(17:03):
talk to the riders as they're gettingon and off the train to hear directly
from them about what's on their mind.
They're excited about talking withstaff and sharing that information.
We know they value frequency,they value reliability.
They value safety, cleanliness.
I mean, it's a great confirmation that ourfocus is the right one when you talk to
(17:23):
rider and you know, I think Paul, also,what you see is that love for CTA too.
So if you're talking to a rider that'salready on your system, that's someone
that's already put their faith in youand believes in you in a certain way.
And they're a great partnerin discussion about what they
want to see from more transit.
(17:44):
They also recognize wherethere's been improvements.
You know, I mean, I hear from ridersthat they can see services strong,
that they can see frequency hasimproved and that they see a commitment
to them and their experience.
Being on the system is also incrediblyvaluable in terms of our employees
and hearing directly from themand their experience, you know.
(18:05):
I say employees are riders a lotbecause they ride themselves, but also
our operating employees are out onthe system for hours at a time, right?
I mean, a commuter commuteshalf hour, 45 minutes.
Our operating employees are out therefor an extended period of time every
day, and they have incredible insightsinto how to improve our system.
And to what needs to be done.
(18:25):
So I also spend a ton of time in garagesand terminals, and upon taking this
role, did a whole tour of all of ourwork locations to make sure I was talking
directly with them and hearing directlyfrom them about their experiences too.
Speaking of your employees, I justwanted to call out too, that I've had
interactions with lately that I've been
so impressed with.
Arlana Johnson on your
team is tremendous and kudos toSteve Fuentes, who after a 30 year
(18:49):
career at CTA, just became the newhead of Milwaukee's Transit System.
So I know people coming outta your team.
Yeah, no, thanks for recognizing them.
I'm so excited for Steve.
It's such an exciting step.
and you may know Paul,Arlana was just brought
in as a senior advisor in the president'soffice, so I'm really excited about
watching her continue to rise here at CTA.
(19:09):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, me too.
So let's talk about, now we've donekind of the present your system, a
little bit about your background.
Let's talk about the future,what's coming for CTA.
You've got some exciting expansionplans like the Red Line extension.
Can you share where that standsand what'll mean for communities in
the south side once it's complete?
Absolutely.
Yeah, we're full speed aheadon the Red Line extension.
It's a incredibly historic project,adding four fully accessible stations
(19:33):
to extend our Red Line to 130th street.
You know, our Red Lineis our busiest line.
Almost a third of our millionriders are on it every day.
And this is a really excitingexpansion of that access.
This is 50 years in the making,Paul, I mean, if you're in Chicago,
you know the story of people askingfor this project and wanting it.
(19:53):
So it's truly a historicmoment for our city.
All you need to do is look atour recently opened Red Purple
modernization stations on the northside to get a sense of the brilliance
that is to come with that project.
Those stations, next timeyou're in Chicago, I encourage
you to go stop by them.
We just open four stations on the northside that are absolutely breathtaking.
(20:15):
They're not just stations, they're worksof art, and they're fully accessible
and just such a reminder of what youcan do when you invest in transit.
You can really transform communities.
So,
yes we're super excited
to move forward with the Red Lineextension heading into next year.
We also have some excitingaccessibility projects.
Our Austin Green Line Station, RacineStation on the Blue Line are both gonna be
(20:39):
opened within the next short period withnew accessible stations, which, you know,
really gets to the core of my mission atCTA in terms of accessibility, we have
our All Stations Accessibility Plan thatwe're moving forward with to make our
rail system all fully ADA accessible.
And that's a really exciting front for us.
We have a strategic plan that we're movingforward with to make sure that we are
(21:03):
adjusting to the different needs of ourregion, and make sure that our bus system
is aligned with the needs that peoplehave and what they need from transit.
So it's a really exciting timewhere we're really looking freshly
at our system and making surewe're thriving into the future.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
When I go to Chicago, each timeI come I try to do one more
(21:24):
thing from Ferris Bueller's DayOff that I haven't done already.
Yeah, I know!
There's so many fun things to do there.
And the architectural tour andthe boat ride is just amazing.
The history you all havein Chicago is fantastic.
I wanna switch a littlephilosophical now, if you don't mind.
Coming to a big role like this at oneof America's largest and one of the
world's largest transit systems, we'reall kind of in a transitional moment
(21:47):
with a new administration in Washington.
We're not kinda sure how things aregoing when it comes to financing.
Hopefully this budget will come throughoutta DC and get us fully funded again.
But, what are some of the valuesor guiding principles that you
bring to your leadership style?
One of the reasons I love publictransit Paul, is the way in
which it brings people together.
(22:07):
So celebrating the community andshared experience of public transit.
You queued me, you allowed me toget philosophical, so bear with me.
Yeah.
Go with it.
You know, something that I find quitemagical and inspiring about public
transit, and I think we'd be hard pressedto find another entity that brings people
together from various circumstances andbackgrounds, to a shared space, especially
(22:32):
post pandemic, where we continue to bemore isolated than ever as a society.
I think celebrating transit andhow it brings people together, and
has us all thrive as a communityis something that I really am
focused on, as the leader of CTA.
And I also want people to feelconnected in various ways with their
(22:54):
communities outside of transit.
So partnerships with stakeholders, otherorganizations across the whole city,
making sure we're all supporting eachother and looking out for our interests
in a shared way is also a focus of mine.
Just this morning, we actually had aworkshop around security at transit.
It was unprecedented.
We had police, security forces indifferent ways, but also had them
(23:18):
there with our unions, with communityorganizations, with transit advocates,
all talking about how to create agreat environment for our system.
Partnerships are a key focusof mine, talking with people,
trusting that we all have a
shared interest in CTA'ssuccess and building
it out so that Chicago is thriving.
(23:38):
Transit is the lifeblood of our bigcities in America, and especially
at a time where the narrativeis complex around big cities.
I think it's really important thatwe put our best foot forward and
present us as thriving engines ofthe economy and the future of our
(23:59):
society and connectivity overall.
So let's look ahead like a fewyears from now, what would you
like people to say that CTAaccomplished under your leadership?
I would love if people saw thistime as a time of renewed faith and
confidence in CTA and a commitmentto its future as the backbone and
(24:19):
lifeblood of our Chicago region.
I would love if people saw it as atime where we took off in new ways in
terms of investment, never before seen,and people accessing it in new ways.
Ridership growing at numbers we'dnever seen before, and really a
turning point towards growth and athriving atmosphere for our system.
(24:41):
And I think that has a lot to dowith faith and excitement about CTA.
In a positive way.
I lean very positive, Paul, in termsof tapping into that same thing you
talked about in the experience of theelevated and who we are and getting
people excited about being on transit,about what it means for the environment,
(25:02):
about what it means for each otherand our work together with each other.
I would hope that people would see it asa renewed time of positivity around CTA.
That's a great vision.
I think it's gonna happen.
I think you've got a great start on this.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a transit evangelist at heart.
You know, I've been doing this foralmost 40 years now, and I really
(25:23):
think transit, and it sounds likeyou do too, is the magic pill for
society, whatever you wanna call it.
You know,
we help people get to jobs right?
We improve
the environment.
We're helping people, elderly andpeople with disabilities get access
to all of life's opportunities.
I mean, it's a solution to somany problems that society has.
And so I love your positive vision
and your talk about this is what we can
(25:44):
do.
Yeah.
And it's where so manydreams are made, right?
It's where the
opportunity is.
I mean, I talk a lot about what
kind of lever could you have to just startrunning a bus through a community that
didn't used to have bus service, right?
It's hard to measure, but thinkabout the kids that see that
opportunity that, wait a second,I could get to a different school.
I could get to a new job.
(26:06):
Maybe I'll apply tosomething now I wouldn't
have applied before because I see that bus
running more regularlyin front of my house.
I mean, what an honor it is to havethat type of impact on communities
and to be able to do that.
And,
you know, we all have those
stories, especially if you've
come from cities.
I grew up in New York, so my
great-grandmother came fromLithuania, was a cleaner in the
Woolworth building in New York.
(26:27):
Raised my grandmother, whowas a New York City diner
waitress for 50 years.
Who ended up putting my
father through college, but she wasriding the subways doing that, right?
I mean, she wouldn't have been able to dothat without being in New York on those
subways, building her life and her future.
You can't match the power that transithas for people in terms of what they
can envision about their futures.
(26:49):
And investing in it is justone of the most powerful things
you can do for our society.
Wow.
What a great way to wrap it up.
Thank you, Nora, for sharinga few minutes with us today
on the podcast.
And not only your
description of how the system operates andhow it's growing and improving, but also
your vision for the future is fantastic.
I can't wait for people around the worldto hear about it on this Super September.
(27:10):
Yeah.
With Nora Lyon, the head ofthe Chicago Transit Authority.
Thank you so much, Nora.
Thanks for listening to Transit Unplugged.
I'm executive producer JulieGates, and this episode was
created by host and producer PaulComfort, producer Chris O'Keefe,
associate producer CyndiRaskin, and podcast
intern Des Gates.
(27:31):
Transit Unplugged is being broughtto you by Modaxo, passionate
about moving the world's people.
If you wanna dive deeper behind thetransit headlines and get boots on the
ground intel on important updates likethe Trump Administration's transit
priorities, or how to get fundingcheck out Transit Unplugged Insider,
our new YouTube show where Paul andI take you inside today's hot topics.
(27:52):
Paul knows what's going on inWashington, DC and has the inside scoop.
He's taking a lot of meetings witha lot of people and we wanna make
sure you know what's going on.
You can watch and subscribe to TransitUnplugged Insider on the Transit
Unplugged Podcast page on YouTube.
Thanks for listening, and we'll catch youon the next episode of Transit Unplugged.
One of my favorite movies of alltime is Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
Right?
It's following his fun adventures allover Chicago and all the fun things he
does on the day he took off from school.
Well, that's where we're headed today: to Chicago, the Windy City, the Second (00:13):
undefined
City, and we're, we're talking to NoraLeerhsen, who's the acting president
of the Chicago Transit Authority.
I'm Paul Comfort, and this is TransitUnplugged, the world's number one public
transportation podcast where we talkto top executives around the world.
And this month of Septemberis Super September.
We're bringing you some of the topAmerican public transportation leaders.
(00:36):
Last week, if you didn't get achance to listen, go back and listen
to Demetrius Chrichlow's episode.
He's the head of New York City Transitand today we talk to the head of Chicago
Transit Authority, Nora Leerhsen.
And it's a great interview.
First time I've met her, wetalk about the agency itself.
It's massive.
What's happened with ridership,which is good news and what
(00:58):
they're doing about safety.
We talk about her background,her legal background.
She's an attorney, how she started incompliance and how that was a great place
to grow into the president's office.
We also talk about her vision and herphilosophy of the role that public
transportation plays, not only in Chicago,but in any community to really improve
the lives of the people they serve.
This is a wonderful interviewwith a great leader of this
(01:20):
agency, Nora Leerhsen in Chicago.
It's our second episodeof Super September.
Dig in and enjoy this wonderful interview.
Great to be with Nora Leerhsen,the acting President of the
Chicago Transit Authority.
Nora, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Super September and we've got New Yorkand Chicago, the one-two punch of the
(01:44):
biggest transit systems in America.
Tell us about Chicago Transit Authority.
Yes, happy to.
So we are the Chicago Transit Authority.
We have 11,400 employees.
We run 24 hours a day.
We have 2000 busestraveling, 127 bus routes.
1500 rail cars, travelingeight routes to 146 stations.
(02:07):
We serve an average of amillion people every day.
We have a $2.1 billion operating budget.
So a big agency serving a lotof people and very proud of it.
That's awesome.
And so tell us about themodes that operate there.
So you've got the bus, you kindof went through a little bit, but
what kind of rail do you operate?
Yeah, we have eight rail lines acrossthe whole system, 146 rail stations.
(02:31):
And on our bus side wehave 127 bus routes.
Our buses travel nearly 150,000miles every weekday, using 2000
buses across our fleet to do so.
And we serve the city of Chicagoand 35 surrounding suburbs.
Wow.
Big time man.
Wow.
That's something.
I mean, everybody who've been dealingwith post COVID ridership increases
(02:53):
people trying to get their ridership up.
I think that you guys have been doingpretty good at that, what I've seen.
What are you doing in Chicago when itcomes to bringing people back to transit,
and what's helping make them wanna ride?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the last few weeks we've actuallyseen some of our highest ridership in
years and we're really excited about it.
So, particularly with our special events,we see that people are back on transit.
(03:16):
You know, they're back on transit acrossour summer special events in a way that
even exceeds our pre pandemic numbers,which I know is the barometer that
everybody's using in the transit world.
Yeah.
Uh, but you know, the week ofLollapalooza, for example, which is a
huge festival in Chicago, that was ourbiggest ridership week since 2019.
So, we're hitting record numbers,since the past few years.
(03:39):
Actually an interesting fact, theVentra system is the account that
people have to pay fare on our system.
So we track those numbers andin our Ventra accounts, we
actually have more Ventra accountholders than we did in 2019.
So people are back on CTA, they're ofcourse traveling differently still,
given the remote work impact and theway in which our world has changed.
(04:01):
But they're back.
They're traveling in different patterns.
We're regularly hitting amillion riders every day.
So our service is also back.
In the pandemic, like othertransit agencies got hit with
a lot of resignations andlost a lot of our workers.
But in the past two years, we'vehired more than 5,000 people,
(04:22):
and so we actually, yeah.
Yeah.
We actually have more bus operatorsthan we did before the pandemic.
We have 95% of employees on ourrail side, so we're really thriving
in terms of our service as well.
And of course, that'swhat brings people back.
People want frequent, reliable serviceand we know that front and center
from surveys and also just knowit from knowing our industry well.
(04:44):
So, we're excited about initiativesunderway to show that increase in service.
Particularly this year we launchedsomething called the Frequent Network.
Which is 20 bus routes across ourwhole system that we'll receive
10 minute or better service allday long every day of the week.
Many of those routes even getbetter than 10 minute service.
But this has been a key indicator of thehealth of our agency and to show that
(05:09):
we're ready for investment and ready tohit the ground running and grow, with even
more funds, in the coming years as well.
And, we see ridershipincrease on those routes.
So some of those key routes areseeing upwards of almost 20%
ridership increases year over year.
And it really shows that, myfield of dreams reference that
if you build it, they will come.
(05:31):
People will follow frequent service andthat's what they wanna see in transit.
So that's been a key focus.
You know, people in the transitworld also know safety and security.
The ridership experience isfront and center, and that's
been a focus of mine as well.
And really deepening our relationshipwith various stakeholders across that
arena, from social service agencies tothe police department, and thinking of
(05:55):
new and innovative ways to make surepeople have a pleasant riding experience,
and that those in need of support on oursystem are getting the support they need.
Yeah, my good friend Kevin Quinnalways says frequency is freedom.
And, uh,
yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Yeah.
He's the head of Vancouver now, but hewas here in Baltimore with me back a
while ago, and then ran it himself,,did an amazing job as CEO there.
(06:17):
One of the other things thatCTA has been focused on is
safer, cleaner, more reliable.
Tell us about what you've beendoing to improve kind of the
day-to-day rider experience.
So I mentioned that partnership with thepolice department and that's been huge
just to make sure people feel safe andsecure throughout their ride on CTA.
And we have a vast system, you know, 146stations covering Chicago and the suburbs.
(06:42):
So this is a vast systemto cover with resources.
So a focus of mine hasbeen working with them
on targeted missions,
a visibility for those officers.
So we have something called safetyoutreach missions where police are
deployed across our system and interactingwith riders, giving them tips about how to
ride safely and smartly and talking withthem, on their way and on their commute.
(07:05):
And we also work with them to talk aboutthe code of conduct on CTA to make sure
that people are following that code ofconduct and, behaving well on the system.
And I think that's been welcomedby riders just to create that sense
of order and safety on CTA, which
we hear in
a larger urban environment comes up a lot.
And, and I want people toknow that's front and center.
(07:26):
That's definitely in addition to,frequency and reliability as being
the primary driver for ridership.
So in addition to that frequent networkI mentioned and the addition of bus
service throughout this year, we'reworking on different things like the bus
tracker system, which, you know, reallyis what indicates people's faith in our
system having reliable information aboutwhen their bus and train is coming and
(07:50):
finding new ways all the time to improvethat information and expand upon it.
So we've added new features to thattracker this year that gives people even
more reliable information about whentheir next bus is coming, just to further
instill that trust in the informationcoming from CTA and that we're a great
ride and a great way to get places.
I was riding that red
(08:11):
tour bus in Chicago.
Chicago's one of my favorite citiesin the country, and whenever I
go there, the first time I alwaystake to take the tour bus around.
And on that bus, the driver mentionedthis book, Devil In The White City.
Mm-hmm.
It was all about the history ofChicago and the World's Fair of 1893.
This was like three yearsago, four years ago.
And I got down this rabbit holeof studying all this stuff about
(08:31):
the 1893 World's Fair, and how thetrains, really the L and all, kind
of got their start around that.
Right.
So you guys operate the L tellus about that a little bit.
I think that's the elevated trains.
People who are trainedmaniacs love the L, you know?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it, I appreciate youbringing up your experience.
Seeing the L as a visitor, because Ithink a lot of us can take it for granted
(08:53):
when we're rushing around in the morning.
But CTA is absolutely beautiful and Ithink that's one of our greatest assets,
is our beauty and the visual of whatthe elevated looks like running through
our city in this way over the river.
And, we have our name, the cityof Big Shoulders, but I often
think CTA kind of looks like theshoulders that carry our city.
(09:15):
And the rumbling sound of the elevatedis, it's why people are here, right?
That's right.
I mean, it's what drew people toChicago and the memories that people
have throughout their lives, onthe elevated system and on the CTA.
It just is what we all shareand kind of epitomizes what
it means to be a Chicagoan.
And, you know, how, how many moviesstart with that image, right?
(09:35):
Of the elevated trainrunning and you just know.
You're in the coolest city in the worldand that that's where this movie's set.
And all you have to do is showthe elevated to tell people that.
So yeah, we're really proud of that.
And you guys interact with severalother agencies, PACE and Metra, and
tell us about all that interaction, whodoes what and all that, because it's a
pretty interesting system, by the way.
(09:57):
It's similar.
I just did Detroit, I did a showthere and all kind of the same setup,
an RTA and then three operators.
So tell us about whatyou guys do in Chicago.
Yeah, so the Regional TransportationAuthority is an oversight entity over
the three service boards that are CTA,and then Metra is the commuter rail,
and PACE is the suburban bus system.
(10:17):
We do work closely together on serviceplanning and certainly right now we're
working with our state legislature to cometo a funding solution for CTA and we're
all very close partners in that effort.
We look at different ways tomake sure we're supporting riders
that cross between our systems.
So there's kind of key transfer pointswhere we work together our service
(10:37):
planning teams to make sure theservice is connecting as it should,
and that when riders are coming fromone service to another they have
that point of access between us.
We do studies together, you know, withPACE since we both have a bus service.
We do work together to dovision studies about how bus
service should flow throughout.
We share an interest in the improvementsof bus street infrastructure to
(11:01):
make sure we're having our busesflow as quickly as possible, so we
work together on strategizing aroundthat and as well as our fare system.
You know, we're always looking togrow our collaboration there as well.
And we just launched this summer,a regional day pass where people
can use, fare across our wholesystems using that day pass.
So, working together, alwayscommitted to continuing to build
(11:22):
that relationship as well to createthat sense of a unified system.
Okay, so let's go into your journey some.
You've been there for a while.
Tell us about what you've done.
You've risen from what you were aproject coordinator or something when you
started, and now you've worked way all the
way up to the acting president.
Congratulations, by the way.
I should have started with that,but it's not really new anymore.
You've been there a little while,but tell us about your journey.
(11:42):
Thank you.
Yeah, I started at CTAjust under 11 years ago.
I started in the law departmentas someone working in compliance,
which sounds like kind of boring,but you actually learn a ton.
'Cause I ran the audits with theFederal Transit Administration.
Oh yeah.
Which cover every aspect of our work.
So you really get to learnevery department how they keep
(12:05):
all their records, and theresponsibilities that they all have.
So it was a fascinatingplace to start the work here.
I had come out of law school and Iactually interned here as a legal intern.
Okay.
And really fell in love with transit andthe impact that it has on people's lives.
As an intern here, I was working onthe background check policy for hiring
(12:26):
to adjust to new federal guidelines,advising that you had to take a factor
analysis into people's backgrounds andyou had to manage conviction history
in a certain way in compliance withthe law, and it was thrilling for me.
I came from being a public schoolteacher and a historian of civil
rights history, very passionate aboutgovernment working for people and
(12:49):
correcting the wrongs of our history'spast, and transit is just kind of
unmatched in terms of the impact it canhave on a city and on its trajectory.
And I just fell in love withthe dynamic aspect of transit
and what it provides for people.
So I started there and I also worked inthe safety department, which was also
(13:11):
an incredible experience after that.
'cause compliance has to do alot also with safety audits.
So I was conducting a lot of those.
When the federal government first issuedthe Safety Management Systems policies,
I was here at CTA and learned a lotabout those and how to implement them.
Then I was put on a detail assignmentto the president's office about
(13:32):
eight years ago, and I've never left.
So, I came here to help the presidentand the chief of staff, chief
operating officer at that time.
And, was just immediately attractedto the impact you can have here
from a policymaking perspective.
I'm a lawyer by training.
I've never billed an hour.
However, feel very passionate aboutpolicymaking and applying that
(13:54):
understanding of how law is made to dailydecision making and seeing that impact.
So that's been huge for me.
You know being here, in this officefor the past eight years means I
was here through the pandemic, whichwas definitely the most defining
experience of my career so far.
And I think has really definedour agencies in a different way
(14:17):
and managing through that crisisand never shutting down really was
a true lesson in leadership andmanagement of service in various ways.
So, for the past six years I waschief of staff, and then for the
past seven months I've been in thisleadership role as acting president.
Yeah.
I think the law is a greatbackground for a CEO.
I'm one too, and I know that it helpedme interact with our attorneys when
(14:39):
I was in that role and I just gavea speech this week in Kentucky and I
talked about when you get to the top ofan agency or an organization, all the
easy decisions have already been madebecause they're ones that have a template.
The ones that end up on Nora's deskare the ones without a template, where
you have to use judgment and wisdom.
And having that legal backgroundI'm sure helps, right?
(15:00):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, it's all gray once youget up to this part, right?
Yeah.
It's not black and white.
You gotta, so you have to have thatbackground in how to protect your
agency and make smart decisions.
I didn't go to law school until a littlebit later in life, however, so started my
career in public education in the Teachfor America program in Philadelphia,
and those years really shaped a lotof my focus in terms of working with
(15:24):
students in poverty and in schools inour country that we're in great need.
And that's what drives me very muchin my daily work, still in transit.
(16:40):
One of the things I really, admireabout what you're doing there is
you feel like spending time outon the system is so important.
Riding the buses, ridingthe trains, talking to the
riders, it's a big priority.
What have you heard from riders recently?
What's really stuck with you?
Yeah, we have a great program westarted this year called CTA Chats
where we're actually out on the system.
High level staff and staff from differentlevels gather together in groups and
(17:03):
talk to the riders as they're gettingon and off the train to hear directly
from them about what's on their mind.
They're excited about talking withstaff and sharing that information.
We know they value frequency,they value reliability.
They value safety, cleanliness.
I mean, it's a great confirmation that ourfocus is the right one when you talk to
(17:23):
rider and you know, I think Paul, also,what you see is that love for CTA too.
So if you're talking to a rider that'salready on your system, that's someone
that's already put their faith in youand believes in you in a certain way.
And they're a great partnerin discussion about what they
want to see from more transit.
(17:44):
They also recognize wherethere's been improvements.
You know, I mean, I hear from ridersthat they can see services strong,
that they can see frequency hasimproved and that they see a commitment
to them and their experience.
Being on the system is also incrediblyvaluable in terms of our employees
and hearing directly from themand their experience, you know.
(18:05):
I say employees are riders a lotbecause they ride themselves, but also
our operating employees are out onthe system for hours at a time, right?
I mean, a commuter commuteshalf hour, 45 minutes.
Our operating employees are out therefor an extended period of time every
day, and they have incredible insightsinto how to improve our system.
And to what needs to be done.
(18:25):
So I also spend a ton of time in garagesand terminals, and upon taking this
role, did a whole tour of all of ourwork locations to make sure I was talking
directly with them and hearing directlyfrom them about their experiences too.
Speaking of your employees, I justwanted to call out too, that I've had
interactions with lately that I've been
so impressed with.
Arlana Johnson on your
team is tremendous and kudos toSteve Fuentes, who after a 30 year
(18:49):
career at CTA, just became the newhead of Milwaukee's Transit System.
So I know people coming outta your team.
Yeah, no, thanks for recognizing them.
I'm so excited for Steve.
It's such an exciting step.
and you may know Paul,Arlana was just brought
in as a senior advisor in the president'soffice, so I'm really excited about
watching her continue to rise here at CTA.
(19:09):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, me too.
So let's talk about, now we've donekind of the present your system, a
little bit about your background.
Let's talk about the future,what's coming for CTA.
You've got some exciting expansionplans like the Red Line extension.
Can you share where that standsand what'll mean for communities in
the south side once it's complete?
Absolutely.
Yeah, we're full speed aheadon the Red Line extension.
It's a incredibly historic project,adding four fully accessible stations
(19:33):
to extend our Red Line to 130th street.
You know, our Red Lineis our busiest line.
Almost a third of our millionriders are on it every day.
And this is a really excitingexpansion of that access.
This is 50 years in the making,Paul, I mean, if you're in Chicago,
you know the story of people askingfor this project and wanting it.
(19:53):
So it's truly a historicmoment for our city.
All you need to do is look atour recently opened Red Purple
modernization stations on the northside to get a sense of the brilliance
that is to come with that project.
Those stations, next timeyou're in Chicago, I encourage
you to go stop by them.
We just open four stations on the northside that are absolutely breathtaking.
(20:15):
They're not just stations, they're worksof art, and they're fully accessible
and just such a reminder of what youcan do when you invest in transit.
You can really transform communities.
So,
yes we're super excited
to move forward with the Red Lineextension heading into next year.
We also have some excitingaccessibility projects.
Our Austin Green Line Station, RacineStation on the Blue Line are both gonna be
(20:39):
opened within the next short period withnew accessible stations, which, you know,
really gets to the core of my mission atCTA in terms of accessibility, we have
our All Stations Accessibility Plan thatwe're moving forward with to make our
rail system all fully ADA accessible.
And that's a really exciting front for us.
We have a strategic plan that we're movingforward with to make sure that we are
(21:03):
adjusting to the different needs of ourregion, and make sure that our bus system
is aligned with the needs that peoplehave and what they need from transit.
So it's a really exciting timewhere we're really looking freshly
at our system and making surewe're thriving into the future.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
When I go to Chicago, each timeI come I try to do one more
(21:24):
thing from Ferris Bueller's DayOff that I haven't done already.
Yeah, I know!
There's so many fun things to do there.
And the architectural tour andthe boat ride is just amazing.
The history you all havein Chicago is fantastic.
I wanna switch a littlephilosophical now, if you don't mind.
Coming to a big role like this at oneof America's largest and one of the
world's largest transit systems, we'reall kind of in a transitional moment
(21:47):
with a new administration in Washington.
We're not kinda sure how things aregoing when it comes to financing.
Hopefully this budget will come throughoutta DC and get us fully funded again.
But, what are some of the valuesor guiding principles that you
bring to your leadership style?
One of the reasons I love publictransit Paul, is the way in
which it brings people together.
(22:07):
So celebrating the community andshared experience of public transit.
You queued me, you allowed me toget philosophical, so bear with me.
Yeah.
Go with it.
You know, something that I find quitemagical and inspiring about public
transit, and I think we'd be hard pressedto find another entity that brings people
together from various circumstances andbackgrounds, to a shared space, especially
(22:32):
post pandemic, where we continue to bemore isolated than ever as a society.
I think celebrating transit andhow it brings people together, and
has us all thrive as a communityis something that I really am
focused on, as the leader of CTA.
And I also want people to feelconnected in various ways with their
(22:54):
communities outside of transit.
So partnerships with stakeholders, otherorganizations across the whole city,
making sure we're all supporting eachother and looking out for our interests
in a shared way is also a focus of mine.
Just this morning, we actually had aworkshop around security at transit.
It was unprecedented.
We had police, security forces indifferent ways, but also had them
(23:18):
there with our unions, with communityorganizations, with transit advocates,
all talking about how to create agreat environment for our system.
Partnerships are a key focusof mine, talking with people,
trusting that we all have a
shared interest in CTA'ssuccess and building
it out so that Chicago is thriving.
(23:38):
Transit is the lifeblood of our bigcities in America, and especially
at a time where the narrativeis complex around big cities.
I think it's really important thatwe put our best foot forward and
present us as thriving engines ofthe economy and the future of our
(23:59):
society and connectivity overall.
So let's look ahead like a fewyears from now, what would you
like people to say that CTAaccomplished under your leadership?
I would love if people saw thistime as a time of renewed faith and
confidence in CTA and a commitmentto its future as the backbone and
(24:19):
lifeblood of our Chicago region.
I would love if people saw it as atime where we took off in new ways in
terms of investment, never before seen,and people accessing it in new ways.
Ridership growing at numbers we'dnever seen before, and really a
turning point towards growth and athriving atmosphere for our system.
(24:41):
And I think that has a lot to dowith faith and excitement about CTA.
In a positive way.
I lean very positive, Paul, in termsof tapping into that same thing you
talked about in the experience of theelevated and who we are and getting
people excited about being on transit,about what it means for the environment,
(25:02):
about what it means for each otherand our work together with each other.
I would hope that people would see it asa renewed time of positivity around CTA.
That's a great vision.
I think it's gonna happen.
I think you've got a great start on this.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a transit evangelist at heart.
You know, I've been doing this foralmost 40 years now, and I really
(25:23):
think transit, and it sounds likeyou do too, is the magic pill for
society, whatever you wanna call it.
You know,
we help people get to jobs right?
We improve
the environment.
We're helping people, elderly andpeople with disabilities get access
to all of life's opportunities.
I mean, it's a solution to somany problems that society has.
And so I love your positive vision
and your talk about this is what we can
(25:44):
do.
Yeah.
And it's where so manydreams are made, right?
It's where the
opportunity is.
I mean, I talk a lot about what
kind of lever could you have to just startrunning a bus through a community that
didn't used to have bus service, right?
It's hard to measure, but thinkabout the kids that see that
opportunity that, wait a second,I could get to a different school.
I could get to a new job.
(26:06):
Maybe I'll apply tosomething now I wouldn't
have applied before because I see that bus
running more regularlyin front of my house.
I mean, what an honor it is to havethat type of impact on communities
and to be able to do that.
And,
you know, we all have those
stories, especially if you've
come from cities.
I grew up in New York, so my
great-grandmother came fromLithuania, was a cleaner in the
Woolworth building in New York.
(26:27):
Raised my grandmother, whowas a New York City diner
waitress for 50 years.
Who ended up putting my
father through college, but she wasriding the subways doing that, right?
I mean, she wouldn't have been able to dothat without being in New York on those
subways, building her life and her future.
You can't match the power that transithas for people in terms of what they
can envision about their futures.
(26:49):
And investing in it is justone of the most powerful things
you can do for our society.
Wow.
What a great way to wrap it up.
Thank you, Nora, for sharinga few minutes with us today
on the podcast.
And not only your
description of how the system operates andhow it's growing and improving, but also
your vision for the future is fantastic.
I can't wait for people around the worldto hear about it on this Super September.
(27:10):
Yeah.
With Nora Lyon, the head ofthe Chicago Transit Authority.
Thank you so much, Nora.
Thanks for listening to Transit Unplugged.
I'm executive producer JulieGates, and this episode was
created by host and producer PaulComfort, producer Chris O'Keefe,
associate producer CyndiRaskin, and podcast
intern Des Gates.
(27:31):
Transit Unplugged is being broughtto you by Modaxo, passionate
about moving the world's people.
If you wanna dive deeper behind thetransit headlines and get boots on the
ground intel on important updates likethe Trump Administration's transit
priorities, or how to get fundingcheck out Transit Unplugged Insider,
our new YouTube show where Paul andI take you inside today's hot topics.
(27:52):
Paul knows what's going on inWashington, DC and has the inside scoop.
He's taking a lot of meetings witha lot of people and we wanna make
sure you know what's going on.
You can watch and subscribe to TransitUnplugged Insider on the Transit
Unplugged Podcast page on YouTube.
Thanks for listening, and we'll catch youon the next episode of Transit Unplugged.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.