Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
How would you like to talk to two CEOswho held the same position back to back?
I'm Paul Comfort, and this is TransitUnplugged America and the world's
leading podcast where we talk to transitexecutives to find out what's happening
in their operations and we go behindthe scenes and show you everything.
Today we talk with Nancy Purser in thispart two of a two-part series from Canada.
(00:25):
Last week we spoke withMaureen Cosyn Heath, who now
is CEO of MiWay, MississaugaOntario's transportation system.
Prior to that, she was headof Hamilton Street Railway.
Now it's Nancy Purser,who's the acting director.
They were both in the same room.
I interviewed them oneright after the other.
Nancy Purser is, has been a memberof the staff there at Hamilton Street
Railway since 2010, for about 15 years.
(00:47):
She joined as the manager of transitsupport services and quickly became
the driving force behind some of thecity's most transformative initiatives.
From rolling out the Presto Smart Cardsystem to helping craft the 10 year local
transit strategy, Nancy has consistentlychampioned innovation and accessibility.
And on today's podcast that werecorded live and in person,
(01:08):
she tells us all about it.
Let's jump into the conversationnow with Nancy Purser.
Excited to be in Canada today forpart two of two powerful women who
are leading transit in Ontario.
Last week we interviewed Maureen CosynHeath, director of transit at MiWay,
and if you listened, you recall atthe end she said she recently left an
(01:31):
agency to take her job there at MiWay.
And the agency she left wasHamilton Street Railway.
Well, today we have the acting transitdirector for that agency, Nancy Purser.
Nancy, thanks for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
So tell us a little bit about youragency, Hamilton Street Railway.
Most unique to me is it'snot a railway anymore.
But you kept the name, right?
That that is right.
(01:51):
Hamilton Street Railwayis actually 150 years old.
We celebrated our 150th year in 2024.
And we did start with rails in theground, pulling horses, pulling wagons.
And we are going backto rails in the ground.
Okay.
We did go out to look at rebrandingat one point and there was a
(02:12):
resounding, don't change the name.
It resonates with theresidents in Hamilton.
So we continue to beHamilton Street Railway.
They call you though HSR, right?
Yes, they do.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And you've been there a while?
I've been there for 15 years.
Okay.
And what, what'd you do?
What's your background?
So, prior to coming to transitwas a long, circuitous route.
(02:33):
I started in the privatesector, manufacturing.
Okay.
Went through a couple ofmanufacturing organizations that,
you know, you really learn how tobe productive, right, to make money.
Yeah.
Bottom line.
It's all about that.
And then found the stress oftrying to make money on something
that's not that important.
I needed a change and I foundsocial housing and I saw how much a
(02:57):
difference that can make to people'slives and how important that was.
And, you know, smallgroups of individuals.
And then I had an opportunityto look at transit.
It serves so many more people, itimproves the lives of so many more people.
And I found my home.
I started there as a manager oftransit support services, was involved
(03:17):
in so many areas, including farepolicies, operational training,
quality management, budgeting, andalso amazed by how complicated
it is to put a bus on the road.
That's just to me was the catcher.
Yeah.
It's like, how do you, how do you do that?
It looks so easy when itjust drives down the street.
(03:37):
Yeah.
And it's not.
And so subsequently after Maureenleft, I was appointed acting director.
So just where I am today.
Congratulations.
How, and you've been in thisrole, what, three or four months?
Four months.
Four months?
Yes.
What do you love most about transit.
I mean, I love your storyand I felt the same way.
I would agree.
It is truly customer orientedservice that is provided.
(04:02):
Where we wanna hear thevoice of the customer.
We wanna know what they want, andprovide them the best, safest, most
reliable service that we can, becausewe know how important it is to them.
We know they need it to getto school, to get to where
Right.
To get to their appointment.
So that is what excites me about it.
And what keeps me there.
Yeah.
Mobility is life, right?
(04:22):
Mm-hmm.
It is.
I mean, if you're stuck, if you'renot moving, you're probably dead.
Right.
You know, whether it's aplant or a person, whatever.
If you're moving, that's life.
And so we provide access toall of life's opportunities.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
It's a great feeling, isn't it?
Yes.
I have a friend of mine who had a14, well he's a little older now,
but at the time, 14-year-old sonwho found transit and was just gone.
(04:45):
He's like, I know how to get there.
I wanna go there.
I wanna do this.
I don't need you to drive me.
Yeah.
And just the freedom that he found at14, which all 14 year olds should try it.
Yeah.
It's, transit is the safest place andthe safest mode of moving about a city.
So how big is Hamilton?
You know, gimme some of thestuff about where you operate.
So you're a part of Ontario, right?
(05:06):
You in Ontario?
Yes, we are part of, well wecall ourselves the greater
Hamilton, Toronto-Hamilton area.
Okay.
So we are at the west end of Lake Ontario.
Okay.
And in, as part of the goldenHorseshoe, which includes Niagara
all the way out to bury theescarpment, follow the escarpment.
So we have, present about 570,000
(05:29):
is our population.
Okay.
We have a very large rural area,so we only service our urban area,
which is about 243 square kilometers.
So, pretty big area to cover.
We have right now 320 buses.
Okay.
86% of them are fueled withcompressed natural gas.
(05:51):
The remainder are diesel, but we'll bethrough all of them and by the end of
2026, so we'll be a hundred percent CNG.
Oh, the end of next year?
Yes.
Wow.
100% CNG?
Yes.
That's awesome.
Congratulations.
Yes.
It'll, it's we will be the greenestfleet in Ontario for sure, by that time.
It's very low.
(06:11):
Like, it's very, very low.
It's particulates or whatever, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even the production,like from cradle to grave
Oh yeah.
Green process.
Yes.
It's still green.
That's interesting.
Yes.
Yeah.
So yeah, we have almost a thousandemployees that work for, in transit.
That's big time.
Yeah.
About 700 of them are operators.
(06:32):
150 are in our maintenance area.
And the remainder are ouradmin, our supervision.
Okay.
Talk about CNG a little bit more.
So is there, is there alot in the ground here?
Is that why you all chose for that?
I mean, it's local.
You can just pull it up?
I don't know that it's here.
Okay.
But, you have access to it?
We have access to it.
Hamilton is mostlyheated with natural gas.
(06:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, we partnered with Enbridge,who is a natural gas provider.
Okay.
To help build our stationsthat actually fuel it.
Currently we have an outdoor, it'san outdoor fueling station just
because it's compressed natural gas.
Right.
We are building a second facilityright now down in the lower city.
(07:14):
We have a mountain in Hamilton.
We refer to it affectionatelyas the mountain.
I've been there.
I've seen that.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
So we have our current facility andthe only one we operate is on the
mountain with an outdoor fueling station.
We are currently building one in thelower city with an indoor fueling station.
Wow.
The very first one in Ontario, I believe.
(07:34):
The second one in Canada.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, our employees that, you know,clean and fuel the buses will be
excited that they get to do it inside.
Yeah.
What about RNG?
Are you, are you experimenting with that?
RNG is, we've, we did,experiment once already.
We had enough brought in to fuel one bus.
So that's exciting.
We just need to continueto investigate some more.
(07:58):
It is more costly.
Renew, it's renewed
Renewable natural gas.
Yeah.
So, you know, we're gettingthe fuel from dumps, right?
Where they
Oh yeah.
The methane gases and all of that.
Oh, they burn it off or whatever.
It comes out the
Yeah.
The landfills.
Right.
And you try and reuse that as gas.
Okay.
So it's trying to get enough tofuel all of our buses, because it's,
(08:20):
that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I know.
So they capture it asit's coming off, but the
mm-hmm.
methane or whatever the gas is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great idea.
I know.
And so it's, it worksout to net zero, right?
It's carbon negative, as opposedto electric or any of the
others that are carbon neutral.
Interesting.
Yes.
I used to be a county administrator andwe ran a landfill and I remember we had
(08:43):
flares that would burn it off coming offa landfill, but I've heard about capture
mm-hmm.
Where they capture it andtry to do something with it.
That's great.
Yes.
Wow.
So you think you'regonna look into it more?
Yes, we are.
Hopefully, we'll, I mean with thenew facility and going a hundred
percent CNG, it's a great opportunity,because the volume will allow
(09:04):
us to get it at a better price.
Thanks for listening to theTransit Unplugged Podcast.
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Let's talk about ridership.
I think Maureen and I talked about it lastweek on the previous podcast and how, you
(09:48):
know, ridership patterns have changed.
Ridership has generally gone down.
Some cities are back up to what theywere at in 2019, but some aren't.
And you know, a lot of people aresaying, is that really the main
metric we should be looking at?
But one thing that a lot of transitsystems are looking at, it sounds like
you all are too, is a network redesign.
So ridership patterns have changedand a lot of transit agencies
(10:09):
are still running the same busroutes they ran five years ago.
Are you changing that?
Yes, we are.
We just, recently got approval fromour council to implement what is called
HSR Next (10:19):
Moving Hamilton Forward.
It's been years of workto reshape our network.
We worked with McMaster Universityon some technical support.
We had 27,000 customer touchpoints to help ensure that we
designed it to their requirements.
(10:39):
Okay.
And we will be implementingit over the next seven years.
This,
Oh, it's a slow burn or whatever.
Yeah, it's an additional 50% in service.
You're adding more service?
Yes.
50%?
50% more service.
Holy moley!
Yes.
So,
Wow.
Transit in Hamilton isgonna grow substantially.
It's another 450 FTE
(11:01):
Wow.
That we're gonna be adding.
We gotta dig into this now.
Yes.
Yes, so it is, it's a substantial change.
We currently, we have 34routes and one on demand route.
We'll have 41 routes and six on demandroutes We're looking at, again Hamilton
is an amalgamation of many communities.
(11:22):
Okay.
And historically, the outlyingcommunities did not receive good
transit, and so that's wheremost of the investment is going.
Ah, out to the suburbs.
Out to the suburbs,
Okay.
Which is where people have movedto, that's where our growth
has, we've seen the growth.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
We've added business parksthough, out in those areas.
(11:43):
Okay.
And so once this grows, we willhave a network that will give anyone
access to jobs within 45 minutes.
Very nice.
So's very,
Is that like a goal youwere trying to do to re
Yes, and it's, you know,equity deserving areas, right?
The focus is there to make sure thatthey have transit that will allow
(12:06):
them to be competitive, to be inthe market for all kinds of jobs.
So you're gonna roll itout over seven years?
Yes.
Like you've got, we're gonna goto this neighborhood next year,
in the neighborhood the next year.
It's a combination
Okay.
Of we'll do one or twoneighborhoods, and also changing
the main routing at the same time.
I was gonna ask you about that.
(12:26):
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
So that some of it will orient.
We had a typical hub and spoke, soeverything went to our downtown core
and then came back up and went out.
So now we're gonna have a hubto hub system, so people will
be able to get to places faster.
Ah, I love that.
Suburb to suburb.
Yeah.
So you don't have to go downtownand come back out in the V.
(12:46):
Right.
Dude, that's awesome.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
I hope you can make that stick.
Sometimes when they come back later,they're like, eh, but that's important.
Yeah.
So our focus is on thenetwork as designed, and we're
going to try not to deviate.
Yeah.
More power to you.
Yeah.
If you're gonna,
(13:07):
so the amount of subsidy fromthe city is gonna have to go up
a little bit each year, right?
Yes.
It is not just,
What's your budget now, do you know?
Not just a little bit.
It's about 127 million.
Okay.
Gross.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So that's really interesting.
So you have a big planning departmentthat's been working on this with outside
consultants and all that kind of stuff.
(13:27):
So we don't have a bigplanning department.
Okay.
But we have a very goodplanning department.
That's good.
We did get consultants to helpsupport how to implement in which
order do we, you know, changethe network and add the service.
Yeah.
So we had them kind of lead wholeteam where we got many other
people, sections of the city to alsoparticipate public health planning our
(13:50):
transportation area so that everyonecan see what's happening, and also
help direct when changes would happen.
So is the plan done now?
The plan is done.
Okay.
Approved?
It's approved.
Boom.
All we gotta to do now is make it happen.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yes, its very, very exciting.
I don't know anyone who'sincreasing bus service by 50%.
(14:11):
No.
That is something,
We just finished a 10 yearlocal transit strategy, so we've
already had eight years of growth.
We're kind of wrapping up the 10 year
Okay.
and rolling into this new one.
So the City of Hamilton hasn't beeninvesting in transit since 2015.
So, including through thepandemic, they continue to invest.
(14:32):
So We are set in a really good place.
Our council understands how importanttransit is to building the community.
Yes.
To building the city of Hamilton.
And they can see that this networkwill actually transform it.
I'm sure Maureen wassuper involved in that.
She was.
Yeah.
Oh, yes, she was.
How long was that process,
like putting this plan together?
(14:53):
So we started to do thenetwork design in 2018.
Oh,
and then the delays, right.
The pandemic and all that.
And then, the net we had it finalized.
Maureen came on board and you know, weworked really hard to create growth plan.
So we had the 10 year strategy,we had this network redesign.
(15:14):
Yeah.
You know, we need to, we can'tkeep going on two separate angles.
Right.
So, you know, put them together
Yeah.
as a growth plan.
And then HSR next.
How are you doing ridership wise, ascompared to, I hate to say it, but
two, let's just say the year 2019.
Yeah.
So we had recovered pretty well by 2024.
(15:34):
Okay.
We are seeing some slightreductions right now.
The government of Canada made somechanges to immigration, and our colleges
relied heavily on international students.
And we rely heavily on ourcolleges to fill our buses.
Mm.
So we've been, and I think it's,throughout Ontario, I've seen
(15:58):
it that there's been reductionsin riderships this year.
And, from our perspective, Hamilton'sperspective, it is truly because
of the changes in immigration.
Stuff that you can't control.
We can't control that.
Yeah.
So we are still focused on growingand going after other markets.
So our, we're looking at commuters.
(16:18):
We're trying to get to the youth becausethey are the riders of the future.
Sp we haven't lost substantial ground.
But it's a real, it'sstarting to become a struggle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll be going up to the CUTA conferencein Montreal, and I just saw that the
government of, the federal governmenthas been giving, they have a new program
where they've, last couple years they'vebeen giving, I think it's $3 billion,
(16:40):
something like that, nationwide.
Do you all get some of thatmoney and is that helping you?
A new program has been announced, whichis the Canada Public Transit Fund.
Yes.
And there's baseline funding.
So every transit agency has beenpretty much guaranteed money for
the next 10 years, to support
Is that operating dollars?
It's capital dollars.
Our federal government onlysupports from a capital,
(17:03):
That's what I thought,
perspective.
But during the pandemic, they helpeda little bit in operating, right?
They, if you matched itwith provincial new dollars?
um.
No,
Not really?
No.
It was the province who
probably stepped up
that really stepped up.
Okay.
But this is new capital dollars,which will be helpful for you, right?
Yes, yes.
So it's permanent funding and it's gonnahelp us fund our replacement buses.
(17:23):
'cause we know we have thatexpenditure every year.
Yeah.
We have to, you know,
Like how many buses are yougetting a year normally?
So it depends.
This year, we're gonna be placing an orderfor 18 articulated new articulated buses.
Oh, new artics.
Okay.
That's good.
And those are replacement.
And then we have another orderfor new fleet to service HSR Next.
(17:46):
Okay.
So that's another 18 or so articulatedbuses, and then some small buses
to help with the on demand.
Gotcha.
We've got you and I and Maureen andMichael Coote from Nova are gonna
be on a panel later today here atthis Vontas Canada Users Forum.
And I'm sure the bus manufacturers loveyou if you, if you're expanding the fleet.
(18:07):
Huh.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is, it is wonderful.
We're hoping that we get the order in,but the buses don't start to arrive until
after we've opened our second garage.
Oh yeah.
When will you be tryingto do that, do you know?
Um, so we are at about 90% completion.
Okay.
Now, if the second facility,it's designed so that we can
(18:27):
maintain 300 buses, it's a very,
'cause it's for the expansion?
Yes.
Okay.
It's a very, very large Facility.
We currently will be able to store 200buses, but we'll be able to expand to 300.
And they'll all be stored indoors?
They will all be stored indoors.
That's great.
Yes.
Especially the weather uphere gets cold winters.
Yeah.
Yes, it does.
So once that new garage is open, itdoes allow us to move ahead with all of
(18:51):
our additional buses and with HSR next.
That's great.
So, all right.
Let's dive into you, personal life.
What do you wanna tell meabout your personal life?
Personal life.
What do I have?
I have
Do you have a personal life now?
I do.
Yeah.
You've got this new gig as head of it.
I know it kind ofconsumes you, doesn't it?
I have a daughter who we arecurrently planning her wedding.
(19:13):
Oh, congratulations.
So, yes, she will begetting married next August.
And so that's very exciting.
And you know, 'causeshe's outta the house.
It's me.
I have all these otherinterests that I get to do.
So I've started dragon Boat Racing.
What is it?
Dragon Boat Racing.
What is that?
I've never heard of that.
It's, it is addictive.
Really?
Yeah.
(19:33):
So you're in a big, long boat.
There's 20 paddlers in the boat.
And you have a steers personand you have a drummer and
Oh, wow.
Yeah, and they're 250 meter races.
500 meters.
Is like crew, what we call inAmerica, where you people are.
The Naval Academy has, I alwayssee them out in Chesapeake Bay.
So it's not, it's similar.
Okay.
But not exactly the same.
(19:54):
Right.
You paddle one side, like they're,you're, you have a paddle partner and you
Okay.
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
You're out there doing that?
Oh yeah.
Wow.
It's a lot of fun.
When do you do it?
Like in the mornings or
-? No, in the evening.
Okay.
After.
Right now, we get out there and weget to watch the sunset on the bay.
Beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
And then we paddle in the dark.
That's great exercise too, isn't it?
(20:16):
Yeah, it is.
Wow.
It's amazing.
What a neat hobby.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Having a lot of fun with that.
I betcha.
Mm-hmm.
And so somebody's booming on the drumsback there, like to keep everybody in at
the front.
Yeah, they're at the front of boat.
Okay.
Yeah.
To keep their, everyone at the same pace.
What kind of music do you listen to?
What do you like?
Oh, again, I listen to everything.
Yeah.
I do listen to everything.
My daughter is a musician, so
(20:36):
Okay.
she's always playing music andit's like, oh, I like that.
Oh, I like
Keeps you young.. Yeah.
And, but I do like jazz.
Do you?
I do like jazz.
Yes.
Yeah, I do too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
It's, so I have a lotof that on my playlist.
Read any good books lately?
So I am a Stephen King fan.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So I've read all of his books.
I'm currently working on his newone.. And, enjoying every page.
(21:02):
Well, this has been greatgetting to know you, Nancy.
Yeah.
It's been wonderful.
I wish you the best.
It's an amazing system.
150 years old.
Mm-hmm.
Going all CNG.
Building a new bus barn,expanding your service by 50%.
I mean, you're in the golden era, man.
This is awesome.
This is life.
This is great, right?
Congratulations.
Thanks for being on the show today.
Thank you.
(21:25):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Transit Unplugged, the world's
number one transit executive podcast.
I'm Julie Gates, executiveproducer of the podcast.
Many thanks to the teamthat makes this show happen.
Host and producer Paul Comfort,producer Chris O'Keeffe, editor
Patrick Emile, associate producer CyndiRaskin, and consultants Dan Meisner
(21:46):
and Jonas Woos at Bumper Transit.
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(22:07):
Thanks for listening, and we'll catch youon the next episode of Transit Unplugged.