January 29, 2025 • 21 mins
In this week’s episode, host Paul Comfort sits down with Steve Butcher, Executive General Manager of Rail and Transport for John Holland. Paul and Steve caught up at the AusRail conference in Brisbane while Paul was on his 10-day tour of Australia. Steve shares his extensive career journey, starting at British Rail at age 16 all the way up to his current job at John Holland and dives into managing Yarra Trams, the Gold Coast Railway, and the Sydney Metro.
"Transforming lives through railways is what drives me every day." - Steve Butcher
Coming up next week on Transit Unplugged we have a special panel on Transportation Networking Companies (TNCs) and public transit with Dr. Judy L. Shanley, Ph.D. National Director, Transportation, Mobility, & Youth Transition at Easterseals; Alex Elegudin, CEO of Wheeling Forward; Jen Shepherd General Manager of Uber Transit; and Brad Miller CEO of Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority.
00:00 Introduction to Steve Butcher
00:26 Steve Butcher's Career Journey
00:53 John Holland Group's Major Projects
01:56 Gold Coast Light Railway and Yarra Trams
04:38 Sydney Metro and Tunnel Boring
07:26 Yarra Trams Joint Venture
11:57 Post-Pandemic Rail Trends
14:43 Australia's Investment in Public Transport
17:30 Steve Butcher's Personal Background
20:03 Coming up next week on Transit Unplugged
If you have a question or comment, email us at info@transitunplugged.com.
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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent (“Modaxo”). This production belongs to Modaxo, and may contain information that may be subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information, and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Steve Butcher's lifetime in railbegan when he was 16 years old
as a cleaner for British Rail.
Now, he's Executive General Managerof the Rail and Transport Division
for the John Holland Group.
I'm Paul Comfort and on thisepisode of Transit Unplugged,
we go in depth with Steve.
I sat down with him recently atthe AusRail conference in Brisbane
(00:23):
on the Gold Coast of Australia.
Steve progressed through roles in traincrew, driver management, operational
safety, action investigation,and operations director to become
the Chief Operating Officer forNorthern Rail in the United Kingdom.
They held a global role with Serco acrossDubai, India, the USA, and Australia.
(00:44):
And for the last seven years, he's beenExecutive General Manager, one of the
largest transportation companies inAustralia, that is the John Holland Group.
They just recently took over operationof Yarra Trams in a joint venture with
Transdev called Yarra Journeymakers.
And on today's episode, Steveexplains kind of what their role
(01:05):
is and what's happening there atthis most iconic light rail tram
network, the largest in the world.
We also talk about their role onbuilding the Gold Coast Light Railway.
There in Brisbane that I got to seedriving right down the Gold Coast,
we also talked to them about thetunnel boring they did for the Sydney
Metro, that big Sydney Metro projectNorthwest and other work they're doing
(01:28):
there, and he gives some advice toyoung people who want to join into
the public transportation industry.
This is a great episode.
You'll enjoy hearing from oneof the world's leaders in public
transportation and infrastructure,Steve Butcher from John Holland.
Great to be with my pal, SteveButcher, who works with John Holland.
(01:48):
I was here five years ago in Australia.
We're continuing our Australia serieshere on the Transit Unplugged podcast.
Tell us where we're at, Steve.
Oh, well, we're on the Gold Coast.
and what is really significant for meand John Holland group, not only is
it in a beautiful part of the world,we're also working on stage three of
building the, the Gold Coast LightRailway on behalf of TMR and GoldLink.
(02:10):
We saw that going downthe middle of the road.
Tell me about that.
Oh, it's an amazing network.
It really is changing people's lives, interms of going, from El Ellens Vale all
the way through, eventually, hopefully,the, the airport at Gullingatta.
It's an amazing, network.
You know what's funny, Steve, waswe were here, uh, we're staying here
overnight and we, um, we went downto the beach today and we saw this
(02:31):
line being built all the way down.
And there's a beachhere called Miami Beach.
Absolutely.
And it looks just like MiamiBeach, except it's 9, 000
miles away, but, I can imagine.
The tourists that come here, manthis is going to change their lives.
They don't have to drive anymore.
Oh well not only does it changethe lives of the tourists here,
it makes it really accessible.
So whether you land in Coolingattaat the airport or whether you land
(02:52):
in Brisbane, it's all connectedeventually by the, by the rail system.
So you're going to be able to landin Brisbane, train out to Ellensvale
straight on the light rail all theway through onto the Gold Coast.
Not only is it going to change peoplethat live here, their lives, it's
also going to make it more accessiblefor people wanting to come in and
have an holiday on the Gold Coast.
(03:13):
Now, what's your job?
Tell us about what you doevery day with John Holland.
Okay, so I'm the executive generalmanager of rail and transport and
we are we are We're the largest endto end rail provider in Australasia.
And when I say end to end,it's really important to us.
So, end to end is really about wedraw the railway and design it.
(03:33):
We would build it, and whatever that meansin terms of the design and construction.
We then follow that through withour rail services team, which is
track, signals, signal design.
We've got a couple of testlabs in the signalling world.
And then we then, work with mainlypartners, MTR, RATP, Transdev.
UGL, et cetera, partners to thenoperate and maintain that railway.
(03:55):
So when we're building it, we buildit with the operator in mind, and
the longevity of what that meansfor operating a railway all the way.
So the end to end is really importantto us in being able to provide that
capability and that bandwidth, thatwhen you design a railway, you do it
from being able to give the operatorand the customer the best success
(04:17):
possible during that design phase.
And you have a lot of projects either justcompleted or underway and almost, I mean,
tell us, it's fantastic what you're doing.
I don't know how you keep up with it.
Oh, this has been our biggest yearyet in terms of opportunities.
so in terms of what we've been workingon, we've been working on bids for
suburban rail loop in Melbourne, and youwill have seen that when you was there.
(04:38):
Sydney Metro West, and of coursethat's building on the expertise
and the skill set of us operating.
Sydney Metro Northwest andCity and Southwest, which has
just gone live and opened.
Tell us about that.
Howard Collins, my friend who worksthere, wanted me to come see it.
It's driverless and walk usthrough that a little bit.
That's awesome.
It's the first Australiandriverless Metro.
We actually opened it when youwas here last time in 2019.
(05:01):
We opened it from Tallowong through toChatswood, which really opened up the
Northwest into, in towards the city.
What has really transformed it is that,only this year in August, we opened
it from Chatswood through to Sydenham,and that has really opened the city up.
You can go from Tallowong all theway through the city to Sydenham,
(05:24):
which is, in the suburbs of Sydney.
in about 59 minutes.
We're also doing the work toextend that out to Chatswood,
out to, sorry, Bankstown.
And John Holland Group with our partnersLango Rourke have got the work to
convert from Sydenham to Bankstownand we're working on that currently.
That is due to open any time next year.
I saw a video, I was telling youthis before we turned on the mic,
(05:46):
I think it was on YouTube, someTV show where they filmed these
big boring machines underground.
Was that you guys?
Yeah, it was,
yeah.
John Holland, we did all thetunnel boring for Sydney Metro
Northwest and City and Southwest.
all of that was our own teams, and oneof the beauties of John Holland is that
we can offer that integrated service.
So you actually get thebest of John Holland.
(06:08):
You get the tunneling, you get thestation build, you get the line wide
services, and then you get the O& M.
So actually, in terms of the end toend, not only do you get the end to
end service from a rail perspective,you also get it in a construction
sense all the way through thetunneling through to the build.
And who is John Holland?
Who was he?
Was there a John Holland?
(06:28):
There was, Sir John Holland, yes, soSir John Holland started from very
humble beginnings 76 years ago in,built a woolshed, he went on to create
a, a really exciting business interms of, building, projects, mainly,
mainly a project centered business.
Okay.
the John Holland Railbusiness was born out of that.
And only this year, it's probablybeen our busiest year yet in
(06:52):
terms of bidding and winning work.
So only this year, as I said, we'vebid on Suburban Rail Loop, we've bid
and was very fortunate to win the YarraJourneymakers with our partners Transdev.
And we actually go live at 0200hours on Sunday, the 1st of
December, and we're really excited.
Although scared, reallyexcited on going live.
(07:12):
It's a big, big change.
I, I mentioned to you, I was with MichelleBatsas who works with you there, and
met the, the chairwoman of your, of yourboard there, and, they're all so excited.
It's gonna, I'm just gonna makeinternational news, I'm sure.
It already has made international news.
We knew about it in the U.
S., yeah.
Yeah, what is really exciting about that,and, and the previous operator did an
amazing job, We're taking over on the 1st.
(07:33):
We've got a mandate to operatethe largest tram network.
And what the beauty of thispartnership is, you've got a
global operator in Transdev.
you've got John Holland who addreal complimentary services, not
only operating railways, but also ininfrastructure and asset management.
so we've got a lot of great plans withthe rolling stock, the infrastructure,
(07:53):
really to turn it into a firstclass grade A light railway system
for the citizens of Melbourne.
Got some new vehicles coming I heard.
Yeah, absolutely.
I like the old ones, they're kind of cool.
As a matter of fact, I don't know if youknow this, we were in Memphis this year
and they are running light rail vehicles.
From, from Yarra Tramsah, I didn't know that.
Some of the older ones that wentover there that they've refurbished.
Yeah, so I said, hey,I know where that's at.
(08:15):
So, yeah, but you'vegot new vehicles coming.
Yeah, we've got the beauty of,of Yarra Trams is that it's
got such a diverse operation.
It goes straight through the cityof Melbourne, into the suburbs.
It's got anything from historic typetrams running in certain parts of the
network, in terms of still keeping thatflavour of what the network was about.
(08:35):
And we take that very serious.
Not only do we want to modernise it andmake it into one of the world's greatest
transport systems, we also want to protectwhat the iconic, image, and the iconic
element is for Melbourne and Victoria.
And that's working with an old diverserange of vehicles, old diverse range of,
routes, and providing the best, absolutefirst class service we can for all, all,
(09:00):
all sorts, all elements of the community.
Yeah.
Kind of from this iconic hagiographicapproach, the, it's kind of like
it reminds me of the Yarra TramsLight Rail Vehicles, or tram as you
call it here, represents the city.
It's like a symbol of the city ofMelbourne, just like the red double
decker buses are a symbol of London.
So it's very rare, in my experience,I've visited close to a hundred cities
(09:23):
now around the world, their tramsystems, that you have integrated.
The woven yourself into the fabricof the community enough where
they, when they think of the city,they think of your transit system.
That's amazing, man.
Ah, and not only do they thinkof the transit system, they've
got high expectations as well.
So we owe it to our customers, we oweit to our client, Transport Victoria,
(09:44):
to make sure that when we do do It's areal privilege to take over Yarra Trams.
Yarra Journeymakers was a relationshipwith Transdev we thought very hard about.
We wanted to providecomplementary services.
We wanted to provide acomplementary skill set.
But more importantly, what we wantedto do, was our values were aligned in
(10:06):
terms of driving great customer serviceand making real, Yarra Journeymakers and
their experience second to none every day.
I'm very impressed with the model herein Australia, similar to the UK, of
contracting out fixed route services.
In the United States we contractout paratransit, the vans for people
with disabilities, but largely fixedroute buses are run by the agency
(10:29):
staff, and then when you get tothe rail side it's some of each.
Explain to us how thatworked in Yarra Trams.
What do you do versus what TransDevdoes versus what the other company,
or are you just a group togetherand you hire a management team?
How does that work?
Oh no, it's a fully integrated JV,so we take full accountability and
responsibility for the end to end service.
So and, and what is great aboutthat is that we all learn off
(10:51):
each individual skill set.
So in terms of TransDev, thereis no question they're a global,
world class transport operator.
John Holland, what we bring to theparty is not only our operational
expertise in some of our operations,Melbourne Trains, Adelaide Light Rail,
Canberra Metro, Sydney Metro, etc.
So we've got that skill set ourself.
(11:14):
But what is really complementaryis how we manage the asset, how
we manage the infrastructure.
And now we manage the operation as one.
So, those skill sets, we don't, we don'tdivide them in terms of what Transdev's
doing, what John Holland's doing.
We take full accountability.
We have one board.
it's, it's the most diverseboard that we've, we, we, we
could possibly put together.
(11:34):
I met your Madam Chairman the other day.
Absolutely.
Madeline, she's a real inspiration to us.
it's got a 50 50 split of male andfemale on the board, which drives
great diversity and challenge.
We want to challenge the statusquo, but we also want to make sure
that we are really representing thepeople that travel on us and how
(11:55):
we can improve the service by them.
Let me ask you a question about,kind of post pandemic rail.
I just gave a speech here at theconference, a few minutes ago.
I was talking about what'shappening in the U.S.
In the U.S., bus ridership is backmaybe 75 80 percent of pre pandemic,
but commuter rail service, like theone I used to run in Maryland into
Washington DC, they're still downaround 50 percent because of this
(12:16):
hybrid work schedules, what HowardCollins told me he calls the three day
city, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, andpeople stay home on Mondays and Fridays.
What are we doing globally?
What are you seeing?
What trends cause you work allover, to bring riders back to rail?
Yeah, I think, I think we're, we'restill seeing a little bit of that.
certainly the networks around areprobably a bit higher than, you
know, they're, they're currentlyrunning it around 75, 80%.
(12:38):
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's across most networks.
I think what we're trying todo, I mean, flexibility is
really important to us as well.
But what we are, we're reallyworking on is what that offering
and making transport really simple.
Easy for people to use.
So, if I look in certainly Melbourne, ifI look at the weekends, they're over 100%.
(12:59):
Because people are still using rail.
It's more about the flexibilityof how they are working.
So, generally, Howard would be right.
Monday and Friday is a lot less.
But in terms of some of the initiativesthat rail is taking, you know,
the 50 cent fare in Queensland.
Yeah.
And a number of other initiativesto really drive people back in,
not into the office, but usingrail as their first choice.
(13:23):
I, I often had a say when I was inNorthern Rail, I think I may have
said it to you last time you was over,is I almost want the rail industry
to be as easy as going to the chipshop or the pub, it's a no brainer.
It's very simple, you don't haveto think about it, you don't
have to think about your car.
It's really about providingthat integrated service.
(13:44):
And we've been working really hard.
Not only in terms of the bus connections,but in the metro connections, the
heavy rail connections, to make it areal seamless service door to door.
So you don't miss your connection, like onthe airplanes I do too often these days.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, the connection protection, right?
So you ride the bus or rail, you'renot going to miss the next ones.
You guys are working on that?
(14:04):
Yeah, and of course, withthe metros, you know, I catch
Sydney Metro to work every day.
And you don't even have to worry aboutit, because you know there's going to be
one every four or good point, right, so itdoesn't matter if you get to that, yeah.
So it's a turn, up, and go.
I catch the, the Metro at Vic Cross.
I go into Central every day.
I never leave home or work thinkingabout what time the train is because I
(14:26):
know there's going to be one turn up.
And that is the ease of what you doin terms of you, whenever you get
down there, even if you've missed oneand see one go out the station, you
know in four minutes time, there'sgoing to be another Metro come along.
And that's the type of ease and theintegration that we really got to drive.
I'm also impressed with thecommitment to investment in public
(14:46):
transport here in Australia.
I was just in Brisbane yesterday, metwith Ryan Murphy, who's head of the
City Council's Transportation Committee.
We toured the Cross RiverRail project underground.
We went out and saw the Metro,which are like a BRT like service,
but that looks like trains.
They're investing billionsand billions of local dollars.
I mean, is Australia like, you know,doubling down on transit or it sounds
(15:10):
like there's a lot of investment going on?
There is an amazing amount of investmentin terms of the transportation, industry.
You know, if I look at, and that'sall across Australia, if I look at,
you know, certainly Melbourne, theinvestment that they've put in in terms
of the metro tunnel opening, in thefuture, in terms of Queensland, in Cross
River Rail, We're just going througha procurement process on Logan Faster
(15:32):
Rail, the Olympics are coming in 2032.
So improving that system.
Sydney Metro, Sydney Metro WesternAirport and the airport out at
Badgerys Creek has been developed.
That really will open up thetransportation network, not
only internally to Sydney,but also people flying in both
internationally and domestically.
(15:53):
But also the Sydney Metro West.
So, these are all aboutopening the cities up, making
transportation really easy to use.
But it, you know, I have to say,every single part of Australia
is putting investment intothis area, and that's great.
I mean, you know, I have a lot ofrespect for the agencies because
(16:14):
they, their vision for driving,That better transportation system
throughout all parts of Australiais second to none, it's fantastic.
So what are the other trends you're seeingwhen it comes to rail transportation?
We've talked aboutfunding, infrastructure.
You seen any other trends thatwe could learn from in the U.
S.
and in Europe?
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of thetrends are, is that in terms of some of
(16:35):
the construction, you know, it's moreabout how we keep people energised.
You know, we're building the extensionout on the Gold Coast, we're duplicating
in terms of Logan Fast Rail, we'redoing a lot of work in Sydney.
I think, The trends are, and youknow, I often say this when Dubai
Metro went live many years ago, youknow, there's a mantra there, if
(16:56):
you build it, people will use it.
If I look at Sydney Metro, when it openedinto, from, Chatswood through the city,
and south west to Sydenham, you know, Ithink in the first few days there was up
to 5 million people using the network.
So, I guess the trend for me is ifyou provide easy, simple services
(17:17):
Where people don't have to thinkand it becomes part of their DNA,
part of their life, day in, day out.
People will use it.
So actually, I think the real trendis people are starting to get excited
about public transportation once again.
That's great.
Let's talk about your background,your personal background, your family.
Your father and your grandfather wereinvolved in the rail business, right?
Yeah, my father was a, atrain driver, in the UK.
(17:39):
My grandfather was a locomotivesuperintendent, also in the UK.
And, so I guess it waspretty much in the blood.
I was grown up surroundedby trains in many ways.
So.
It was pretty inevitablethat, I was going to join.
I joined British Rail at 16.
43 years later, I'm still here.
Still, still as excited to get out of bedabout the railways and the transportation
system as I was all those years ago.
(18:02):
But what is really important now andreally drives me every day is that, you
know, John Holland, one of John Holland'svalues is about transforming lives.
And when we build and then golive and operate a railway.
You can see that every single daywe're transforming people's lives.
And it also becomes in their DNAthat makes their lives easier.
(18:24):
And I tell you what, Iwouldn't change a thing.
Absolutely nothing in terms of my career.
and, and certainly on the, I think we'vegot to work harder at getting young
people in, not necessarily, With graduatesor, or, or, or university graduates.
But we've also gotta work reallyharder at getting grassroots people
into the industry that 43 yearslater they can be as excited as I am.
(18:46):
That's great.
Are, do you know, uh, Sir Peter Hedy?
I do know, I do know Sir Peter, hevery real guy from British Rail.
Absolutely.
And of course, you know, SirPeter Hendy, in terms of, um.
The roles he's had over theyears, both as a commissioner and
then in Network Rail and now interms of the role he's now doing.
He, if you look at Sir Peter Hendy,he is a real role model about the
(19:09):
excitement he has about connectingtransport and connecting people to
places and making people's lives easier.
And, you know, that mantrais still in my blood.
That's all I really want to dois to make sure that whatever
we do, we're adding value.
And not only adding value, we'reproviding great, great, great
transport systems, whatever they are.
(19:30):
Whether it be a bus network, whetherit be a metro network or an heavy rail
network, connecting into airports,connecting into different places.
It is really about makingpeople's lives a lot simpler.
Well, thank you for spendinga little time with us today.
Just from my perspective, yourcompany, John Holland, has a
tremendous reputation for quality,and the work you do is fantastic.
(19:51):
I've seen it myself.
And, so congratulationsand keep up the great work.
There's a lot of people doing it.
We're very proud of what we do.
We're very proud of JohnHolland, all of us together.
And, yeah, thank youfor, thank you for that.
Thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Transit
Unplugged with our special guest,Steve Butcher of John Holland.
(20:12):
Hi, I'm Tris Hussey,editor of the podcast.
And coming up next week on theshow, we have a special panel on
Transportation Networking Companies,or TNCs, in public transit.
Our guests are Dr.
Judy L.
Shanley, National Director,Transportation, Mobility, and
Youth Transition at Easterseals.
Alex Eligudin, CEO at Wheeling Forward,Jen Shepherd, General Manager, Uber
(20:34):
Transit at Uber, and Brad Miller, CEOof Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority.
Transit Unplugged isbrought to you by Modaxo.
At Modaxo, we're passionateabout moving the world's people.
And at Transit Unplugged, we'repassionate about telling those stories.
So until next week, ridesafe and ride happy.
Steve Butcher's lifetime in railbegan when he was 16 years old
as a cleaner for British Rail.
Now, he's Executive General Managerof the Rail and Transport Division
for the John Holland Group.
I'm Paul Comfort and on thisepisode of Transit Unplugged,
we go in depth with Steve.
I sat down with him recently atthe AusRail conference in Brisbane
(00:23):
on the Gold Coast of Australia.
Steve progressed through roles in traincrew, driver management, operational
safety, action investigation,and operations director to become
the Chief Operating Officer forNorthern Rail in the United Kingdom.
They held a global role with Serco acrossDubai, India, the USA, and Australia.
(00:44):
And for the last seven years, he's beenExecutive General Manager, one of the
largest transportation companies inAustralia, that is the John Holland Group.
They just recently took over operationof Yarra Trams in a joint venture with
Transdev called Yarra Journeymakers.
And on today's episode, Steveexplains kind of what their role
(01:05):
is and what's happening there atthis most iconic light rail tram
network, the largest in the world.
We also talk about their role onbuilding the Gold Coast Light Railway.
There in Brisbane that I got to seedriving right down the Gold Coast,
we also talked to them about thetunnel boring they did for the Sydney
Metro, that big Sydney Metro projectNorthwest and other work they're doing
(01:28):
there, and he gives some advice toyoung people who want to join into
the public transportation industry.
This is a great episode.
You'll enjoy hearing from oneof the world's leaders in public
transportation and infrastructure,Steve Butcher from John Holland.
Great to be with my pal, SteveButcher, who works with John Holland.
(01:48):
I was here five years ago in Australia.
We're continuing our Australia serieshere on the Transit Unplugged podcast.
Tell us where we're at, Steve.
Oh, well, we're on the Gold Coast.
and what is really significant for meand John Holland group, not only is
it in a beautiful part of the world,we're also working on stage three of
building the, the Gold Coast LightRailway on behalf of TMR and GoldLink.
(02:10):
We saw that going downthe middle of the road.
Tell me about that.
Oh, it's an amazing network.
It really is changing people's lives, interms of going, from El Ellens Vale all
the way through, eventually, hopefully,the, the airport at Gullingatta.
It's an amazing, network.
You know what's funny, Steve, waswe were here, uh, we're staying here
overnight and we, um, we went downto the beach today and we saw this
(02:31):
line being built all the way down.
And there's a beachhere called Miami Beach.
Absolutely.
And it looks just like MiamiBeach, except it's 9, 000
miles away, but, I can imagine.
The tourists that come here, manthis is going to change their lives.
They don't have to drive anymore.
Oh well not only does it changethe lives of the tourists here,
it makes it really accessible.
So whether you land in Coolingattaat the airport or whether you land
(02:52):
in Brisbane, it's all connectedeventually by the, by the rail system.
So you're going to be able to landin Brisbane, train out to Ellensvale
straight on the light rail all theway through onto the Gold Coast.
Not only is it going to change peoplethat live here, their lives, it's
also going to make it more accessiblefor people wanting to come in and
have an holiday on the Gold Coast.
(03:13):
Now, what's your job?
Tell us about what you doevery day with John Holland.
Okay, so I'm the executive generalmanager of rail and transport and
we are we are We're the largest endto end rail provider in Australasia.
And when I say end to end,it's really important to us.
So, end to end is really about wedraw the railway and design it.
(03:33):
We would build it, and whatever that meansin terms of the design and construction.
We then follow that through withour rail services team, which is
track, signals, signal design.
We've got a couple of testlabs in the signalling world.
And then we then, work with mainlypartners, MTR, RATP, Transdev.
UGL, et cetera, partners to thenoperate and maintain that railway.
(03:55):
So when we're building it, we buildit with the operator in mind, and
the longevity of what that meansfor operating a railway all the way.
So the end to end is really importantto us in being able to provide that
capability and that bandwidth, thatwhen you design a railway, you do it
from being able to give the operatorand the customer the best success
(04:17):
possible during that design phase.
And you have a lot of projects either justcompleted or underway and almost, I mean,
tell us, it's fantastic what you're doing.
I don't know how you keep up with it.
Oh, this has been our biggest yearyet in terms of opportunities.
so in terms of what we've been workingon, we've been working on bids for
suburban rail loop in Melbourne, and youwill have seen that when you was there.
(04:38):
Sydney Metro West, and of coursethat's building on the expertise
and the skill set of us operating.
Sydney Metro Northwest andCity and Southwest, which has
just gone live and opened.
Tell us about that.
Howard Collins, my friend who worksthere, wanted me to come see it.
It's driverless and walk usthrough that a little bit.
That's awesome.
It's the first Australiandriverless Metro.
We actually opened it when youwas here last time in 2019.
(05:01):
We opened it from Tallowong through toChatswood, which really opened up the
Northwest into, in towards the city.
What has really transformed it is that,only this year in August, we opened
it from Chatswood through to Sydenham,and that has really opened the city up.
You can go from Tallowong all theway through the city to Sydenham,
(05:24):
which is, in the suburbs of Sydney.
in about 59 minutes.
We're also doing the work toextend that out to Chatswood,
out to, sorry, Bankstown.
And John Holland Group with our partnersLango Rourke have got the work to
convert from Sydenham to Bankstownand we're working on that currently.
That is due to open any time next year.
I saw a video, I was telling youthis before we turned on the mic,
(05:46):
I think it was on YouTube, someTV show where they filmed these
big boring machines underground.
Was that you guys?
Yeah, it was,
yeah.
John Holland, we did all thetunnel boring for Sydney Metro
Northwest and City and Southwest.
all of that was our own teams, and oneof the beauties of John Holland is that
we can offer that integrated service.
So you actually get thebest of John Holland.
(06:08):
You get the tunneling, you get thestation build, you get the line wide
services, and then you get the O& M.
So actually, in terms of the end toend, not only do you get the end to
end service from a rail perspective,you also get it in a construction
sense all the way through thetunneling through to the build.
And who is John Holland?
Who was he?
Was there a John Holland?
(06:28):
There was, Sir John Holland, yes, soSir John Holland started from very
humble beginnings 76 years ago in,built a woolshed, he went on to create
a, a really exciting business interms of, building, projects, mainly,
mainly a project centered business.
Okay.
the John Holland Railbusiness was born out of that.
And only this year, it's probablybeen our busiest year yet in
(06:52):
terms of bidding and winning work.
So only this year, as I said, we'vebid on Suburban Rail Loop, we've bid
and was very fortunate to win the YarraJourneymakers with our partners Transdev.
And we actually go live at 0200hours on Sunday, the 1st of
December, and we're really excited.
Although scared, reallyexcited on going live.
(07:12):
It's a big, big change.
I, I mentioned to you, I was with MichelleBatsas who works with you there, and
met the, the chairwoman of your, of yourboard there, and, they're all so excited.
It's gonna, I'm just gonna makeinternational news, I'm sure.
It already has made international news.
We knew about it in the U.
S., yeah.
Yeah, what is really exciting about that,and, and the previous operator did an
amazing job, We're taking over on the 1st.
(07:33):
We've got a mandate to operatethe largest tram network.
And what the beauty of thispartnership is, you've got a
global operator in Transdev.
you've got John Holland who addreal complimentary services, not
only operating railways, but also ininfrastructure and asset management.
so we've got a lot of great plans withthe rolling stock, the infrastructure,
(07:53):
really to turn it into a firstclass grade A light railway system
for the citizens of Melbourne.
Got some new vehicles coming I heard.
Yeah, absolutely.
I like the old ones, they're kind of cool.
As a matter of fact, I don't know if youknow this, we were in Memphis this year
and they are running light rail vehicles.
From, from Yarra Tramsah, I didn't know that.
Some of the older ones that wentover there that they've refurbished.
Yeah, so I said, hey,I know where that's at.
(08:15):
So, yeah, but you'vegot new vehicles coming.
Yeah, we've got the beauty of,of Yarra Trams is that it's
got such a diverse operation.
It goes straight through the cityof Melbourne, into the suburbs.
It's got anything from historic typetrams running in certain parts of the
network, in terms of still keeping thatflavour of what the network was about.
(08:35):
And we take that very serious.
Not only do we want to modernise it andmake it into one of the world's greatest
transport systems, we also want to protectwhat the iconic, image, and the iconic
element is for Melbourne and Victoria.
And that's working with an old diverserange of vehicles, old diverse range of,
routes, and providing the best, absolutefirst class service we can for all, all,
(09:00):
all sorts, all elements of the community.
Yeah.
Kind of from this iconic hagiographicapproach, the, it's kind of like
it reminds me of the Yarra TramsLight Rail Vehicles, or tram as you
call it here, represents the city.
It's like a symbol of the city ofMelbourne, just like the red double
decker buses are a symbol of London.
So it's very rare, in my experience,I've visited close to a hundred cities
(09:23):
now around the world, their tramsystems, that you have integrated.
The woven yourself into the fabricof the community enough where
they, when they think of the city,they think of your transit system.
That's amazing, man.
Ah, and not only do they thinkof the transit system, they've
got high expectations as well.
So we owe it to our customers, we oweit to our client, Transport Victoria,
(09:44):
to make sure that when we do do It's areal privilege to take over Yarra Trams.
Yarra Journeymakers was a relationshipwith Transdev we thought very hard about.
We wanted to providecomplementary services.
We wanted to provide acomplementary skill set.
But more importantly, what we wantedto do, was our values were aligned in
(10:06):
terms of driving great customer serviceand making real, Yarra Journeymakers and
their experience second to none every day.
I'm very impressed with the model herein Australia, similar to the UK, of
contracting out fixed route services.
In the United States we contractout paratransit, the vans for people
with disabilities, but largely fixedroute buses are run by the agency
(10:29):
staff, and then when you get tothe rail side it's some of each.
Explain to us how thatworked in Yarra Trams.
What do you do versus what TransDevdoes versus what the other company,
or are you just a group togetherand you hire a management team?
How does that work?
Oh no, it's a fully integrated JV,so we take full accountability and
responsibility for the end to end service.
So and, and what is great aboutthat is that we all learn off
(10:51):
each individual skill set.
So in terms of TransDev, thereis no question they're a global,
world class transport operator.
John Holland, what we bring to theparty is not only our operational
expertise in some of our operations,Melbourne Trains, Adelaide Light Rail,
Canberra Metro, Sydney Metro, etc.
So we've got that skill set ourself.
(11:14):
But what is really complementaryis how we manage the asset, how
we manage the infrastructure.
And now we manage the operation as one.
So, those skill sets, we don't, we don'tdivide them in terms of what Transdev's
doing, what John Holland's doing.
We take full accountability.
We have one board.
it's, it's the most diverseboard that we've, we, we, we
could possibly put together.
(11:34):
I met your Madam Chairman the other day.
Absolutely.
Madeline, she's a real inspiration to us.
it's got a 50 50 split of male andfemale on the board, which drives
great diversity and challenge.
We want to challenge the statusquo, but we also want to make sure
that we are really representing thepeople that travel on us and how
(11:55):
we can improve the service by them.
Let me ask you a question about,kind of post pandemic rail.
I just gave a speech here at theconference, a few minutes ago.
I was talking about what'shappening in the U.S.
In the U.S., bus ridership is backmaybe 75 80 percent of pre pandemic,
but commuter rail service, like theone I used to run in Maryland into
Washington DC, they're still downaround 50 percent because of this
(12:16):
hybrid work schedules, what HowardCollins told me he calls the three day
city, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, andpeople stay home on Mondays and Fridays.
What are we doing globally?
What are you seeing?
What trends cause you work allover, to bring riders back to rail?
Yeah, I think, I think we're, we'restill seeing a little bit of that.
certainly the networks around areprobably a bit higher than, you
know, they're, they're currentlyrunning it around 75, 80%.
(12:38):
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's across most networks.
I think what we're trying todo, I mean, flexibility is
really important to us as well.
But what we are, we're reallyworking on is what that offering
and making transport really simple.
Easy for people to use.
So, if I look in certainly Melbourne, ifI look at the weekends, they're over 100%.
(12:59):
Because people are still using rail.
It's more about the flexibilityof how they are working.
So, generally, Howard would be right.
Monday and Friday is a lot less.
But in terms of some of the initiativesthat rail is taking, you know,
the 50 cent fare in Queensland.
Yeah.
And a number of other initiativesto really drive people back in,
not into the office, but usingrail as their first choice.
(13:23):
I, I often had a say when I was inNorthern Rail, I think I may have
said it to you last time you was over,is I almost want the rail industry
to be as easy as going to the chipshop or the pub, it's a no brainer.
It's very simple, you don't haveto think about it, you don't
have to think about your car.
It's really about providingthat integrated service.
(13:44):
And we've been working really hard.
Not only in terms of the bus connections,but in the metro connections, the
heavy rail connections, to make it areal seamless service door to door.
So you don't miss your connection, like onthe airplanes I do too often these days.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, the connection protection, right?
So you ride the bus or rail, you'renot going to miss the next ones.
You guys are working on that?
(14:04):
Yeah, and of course, withthe metros, you know, I catch
Sydney Metro to work every day.
And you don't even have to worry aboutit, because you know there's going to be
one every four or good point, right, so itdoesn't matter if you get to that, yeah.
So it's a turn, up, and go.
I catch the, the Metro at Vic Cross.
I go into Central every day.
I never leave home or work thinkingabout what time the train is because I
(14:26):
know there's going to be one turn up.
And that is the ease of what you doin terms of you, whenever you get
down there, even if you've missed oneand see one go out the station, you
know in four minutes time, there'sgoing to be another Metro come along.
And that's the type of ease and theintegration that we really got to drive.
I'm also impressed with thecommitment to investment in public
(14:46):
transport here in Australia.
I was just in Brisbane yesterday, metwith Ryan Murphy, who's head of the
City Council's Transportation Committee.
We toured the Cross RiverRail project underground.
We went out and saw the Metro,which are like a BRT like service,
but that looks like trains.
They're investing billionsand billions of local dollars.
I mean, is Australia like, you know,doubling down on transit or it sounds
(15:10):
like there's a lot of investment going on?
There is an amazing amount of investmentin terms of the transportation, industry.
You know, if I look at, and that'sall across Australia, if I look at,
you know, certainly Melbourne, theinvestment that they've put in in terms
of the metro tunnel opening, in thefuture, in terms of Queensland, in Cross
River Rail, We're just going througha procurement process on Logan Faster
(15:32):
Rail, the Olympics are coming in 2032.
So improving that system.
Sydney Metro, Sydney Metro WesternAirport and the airport out at
Badgerys Creek has been developed.
That really will open up thetransportation network, not
only internally to Sydney,but also people flying in both
internationally and domestically.
(15:53):
But also the Sydney Metro West.
So, these are all aboutopening the cities up, making
transportation really easy to use.
But it, you know, I have to say,every single part of Australia
is putting investment intothis area, and that's great.
I mean, you know, I have a lot ofrespect for the agencies because
(16:14):
they, their vision for driving,That better transportation system
throughout all parts of Australiais second to none, it's fantastic.
So what are the other trends you're seeingwhen it comes to rail transportation?
We've talked aboutfunding, infrastructure.
You seen any other trends thatwe could learn from in the U.
S.
and in Europe?
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of thetrends are, is that in terms of some of
(16:35):
the construction, you know, it's moreabout how we keep people energised.
You know, we're building the extensionout on the Gold Coast, we're duplicating
in terms of Logan Fast Rail, we'redoing a lot of work in Sydney.
I think, The trends are, and youknow, I often say this when Dubai
Metro went live many years ago, youknow, there's a mantra there, if
(16:56):
you build it, people will use it.
If I look at Sydney Metro, when it openedinto, from, Chatswood through the city,
and south west to Sydenham, you know, Ithink in the first few days there was up
to 5 million people using the network.
So, I guess the trend for me is ifyou provide easy, simple services
(17:17):
Where people don't have to thinkand it becomes part of their DNA,
part of their life, day in, day out.
People will use it.
So actually, I think the real trendis people are starting to get excited
about public transportation once again.
That's great.
Let's talk about your background,your personal background, your family.
Your father and your grandfather wereinvolved in the rail business, right?
Yeah, my father was a, atrain driver, in the UK.
(17:39):
My grandfather was a locomotivesuperintendent, also in the UK.
And, so I guess it waspretty much in the blood.
I was grown up surroundedby trains in many ways.
So.
It was pretty inevitablethat, I was going to join.
I joined British Rail at 16.
43 years later, I'm still here.
Still, still as excited to get out of bedabout the railways and the transportation
system as I was all those years ago.
(18:02):
But what is really important now andreally drives me every day is that, you
know, John Holland, one of John Holland'svalues is about transforming lives.
And when we build and then golive and operate a railway.
You can see that every single daywe're transforming people's lives.
And it also becomes in their DNAthat makes their lives easier.
(18:24):
And I tell you what, Iwouldn't change a thing.
Absolutely nothing in terms of my career.
and, and certainly on the, I think we'vegot to work harder at getting young
people in, not necessarily, With graduatesor, or, or, or university graduates.
But we've also gotta work reallyharder at getting grassroots people
into the industry that 43 yearslater they can be as excited as I am.
(18:46):
That's great.
Are, do you know, uh, Sir Peter Hedy?
I do know, I do know Sir Peter, hevery real guy from British Rail.
Absolutely.
And of course, you know, SirPeter Hendy, in terms of, um.
The roles he's had over theyears, both as a commissioner and
then in Network Rail and now interms of the role he's now doing.
He, if you look at Sir Peter Hendy,he is a real role model about the
(19:09):
excitement he has about connectingtransport and connecting people to
places and making people's lives easier.
And, you know, that mantrais still in my blood.
That's all I really want to dois to make sure that whatever
we do, we're adding value.
And not only adding value, we'reproviding great, great, great
transport systems, whatever they are.
(19:30):
Whether it be a bus network, whetherit be a metro network or an heavy rail
network, connecting into airports,connecting into different places.
It is really about makingpeople's lives a lot simpler.
Well, thank you for spendinga little time with us today.
Just from my perspective, yourcompany, John Holland, has a
tremendous reputation for quality,and the work you do is fantastic.
(19:51):
I've seen it myself.
And, so congratulationsand keep up the great work.
There's a lot of people doing it.
We're very proud of what we do.
We're very proud of JohnHolland, all of us together.
And, yeah, thank youfor, thank you for that.
Thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Transit
Unplugged with our special guest,Steve Butcher of John Holland.
(20:12):
Hi, I'm Tris Hussey,editor of the podcast.
And coming up next week on theshow, we have a special panel on
Transportation Networking Companies,or TNCs, in public transit.
Our guests are Dr.
Judy L.
Shanley, National Director,Transportation, Mobility, and
Youth Transition at Easterseals.
Alex Eligudin, CEO at Wheeling Forward,Jen Shepherd, General Manager, Uber
(20:34):
Transit at Uber, and Brad Miller, CEOof Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority.
Transit Unplugged isbrought to you by Modaxo.
At Modaxo, we're passionateabout moving the world's people.
And at Transit Unplugged, we'repassionate about telling those stories.
So until next week, ridesafe and ride happy.
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