May 5, 2025 • 24 mins
On the next Treasured Truth, as we continue to consider the importance of evangelism in our lives as Christians, Pastor Ford will talk about what compels us to share the gospel. One of the most compelling reasons we have for witnessing to others is the debt we owe to Jesus for our own salvation. How do you pay the debt that you owe to Jesus? You tell someone about Him and what He’s done for you. To learn more from Pastor Ford about winning the lost no matter the cost, join us for the next Treasured Truth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
Paul says, I owe a debt to Jesus that I
pay to you. How do you pay your debt to Jesus?
Tell somebody else about him. Because the gospel is just
one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.
S2 (00:25):
This is treasure truth with pastor and author James Ford Jr,
senior pastor of Christ Bible Church in Chicago. I'm Steve Hiller.
Glad you're with us as we continue a message winning
the lost, no matter the cost. And pastor, really a
great challenge and reminder for us today that we, if
we have been saved by Christ, owe this debt of gratitude.
(00:45):
And what a great way that we get to pay
that debt by sharing that good news with others.
S1 (00:50):
Well, you know, we are those who understand what life
is really all about.
S2 (00:57):
What do you mean by that?
S1 (00:58):
The bottom line life is about our relationship with Jesus Christ. Now,
a lot of people don't believe that, don't live that,
don't believe the Bible, but the essence of life. The
Bible says in him we live and move and have
our being. It goes on to say, apart from him,
we can do nothing. So many people are existing, but
(01:20):
they're not living because life comes through Jesus Christ. Two.
Two Greek words are translated life bios, from which we
get the word biology, which speaks of physical life. But
Zoe is spiritual life. And Zoe. This life, Zoe is
in Christ. And so if I want to live eternally
(01:46):
with him, then I need to know him.
S2 (01:49):
Yeah, well. And that's, you know what we get to
be able to do here on this radio program to
talk all about him, to encourage others to talk about him.
And for the person who says, I know that I
should be telling others about him. But I just get
so overwhelmed. What if I say the wrong thing? What
if they ask me a question I don't know how
to answer? How do you encourage that person?
S1 (02:08):
Well, I would tell them, uh, one of the most
profound answers you can give, uh, when it's a subject
or a question asked that you don't know, here it is.
Three words I don't know. So I'm not called to
tell people about what I don't know. I when he
(02:29):
called to tell people about what I do know and
who I do know. So the woman at the well,
she accepted Jesus Christ and became a believer. She goes
into the village and tells all the men, come see
a man who told me everything I've ever done, and
they all went to see her. Now here's my point.
(02:49):
Let me ask you some questions. Okay? Uh, after she
got saved, did she attend Moody Bible Institute?
S2 (02:54):
She did.
S1 (02:54):
Not. Uh, did she take a class at your church
on evangelism?
S2 (02:58):
She did not.
S1 (02:59):
Know. She just merely went out and told what happened
to her. Yeah. That's witnessing.
S2 (03:04):
Well, and that's a great reminder for all of us
that when we are challenged, we can answer, I don't know.
It's simply sharing our story. Right? I don't know what
he's going to do for you, but this is what
Christ has done for me, right?
S1 (03:16):
Remember, one of the mottos Moody had in the past
was to know him and to make him known. Yeah.
S2 (03:23):
That's it. Well, and that's what, uh, we hope to
do here on this radio broadcast and hopefully encourage you
as you share the good news of the gospel with
those around you. So let's open our Bibles to Romans
chapter one as we continue a message winning the lost.
No matter the cost, here is Pastor Ford.
S1 (03:42):
Success in witnessing is not leading a person to Christ.
Success in witnessing is witnessing about Christ. Here's what he
said one plants, one waters. God gives the increase. Here's
what he said. Jesus himself said, the sower and the
reaper get the same reward. Who's the sower? The one
(04:06):
that planted the seed. The one that put the seed
in the heart. Soil. Who's the reaper? The one that
prayed with him. The one that actually was there when
they actually came to Christ? You mean both of them? Yes.
Because you can't have one without another. You can't have
a reaper if you ain't had a sower. Yeah. Amen.
And you can't have a sower without a reaper, because
(04:27):
then everything's going to go rotten. And so he says,
because of converts. Now, I want you to notice something here.
Because what are we trying to do? We're trying to
let people know about our God who can do what
our God can do. He said, what are you talking about?
Let me show you something. Let me show you something.
I just shared this with the Wednesday crowd. Here's what
Paul says I was hindered. Uh, now, what hindered him?
(04:51):
The work of God hindered him. Now. Now, here's what
we got to realize. This. This thing is powerful to me.
I said, first Thessalonians 218 is is is demonic delay.
But acts 16 six through eight is divine delay. God
stopped him from going. Question. Why? Since he wants to
go there and witness. Are you having him? Wait. My
(05:14):
might I postulate a possibility. Say postulate. I remember when
I got converted, some things changed right away. Some things
didn't change, right? Some things changed. The first thing I did,
anybody remember? Flushed my drugs down the toilet? I used
to have Pepsi-Cola pusher, you know. Remember when Pepsi-Cola bottles?
You could get two cent for them? I was two
cent nickel and dime pusher. And first thing I did
(05:36):
was flush all my drugs down the toilet. That word
got around, man. Ford done lost his mind. He ain't
got religion. And he didn't flush drugs down the toilet.
And then the other thing I was doing, I was
gaming on welfare. Now, let me tell you what that means.
That means I had a job, a good job, but
I had my wife go to welfare office and say
that I had left her and the children, so we
(05:58):
was able to get food stamps just way before we
was able to get food stamps and she got a
medical card. So here I was. I had a good job.
I was working in a factory making top money, and
then she was getting welfare and food stamps and I
was selling drugs. Big bank, big bank, big bank. But
then it backfired because when I got saved, the first
thing I did was I went to the welfare office
because the guilt was on me. And I said, for
(06:19):
two and a half, almost three years, we've been cheating you.
I know I could go to jail, but my guy
who led me to Christ said, one of the first
things I must do is make restitution. So this guy
had me. That's why my marriage is such a wreck.
I had to go tell my wife, every woman that
I ever mess with. You know, I had to go
and confess to everybody what I had stolen and and
make restitution. And I'm going back, you know? Yeah, yeah.
(06:40):
You know, when you're just missing it at your crib
and you thought so, and so did it. I told
you he did it. I know he's like that. I
did it, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Here's
your money back, man. Here's this back. You know, all
that went through all that. But I didn't want to
do that one. He said, well, then you don't want
to be fully obedient to Jesus. I said, okay, so
I go and I'm sitting up there, I'm sweating bullets, man. And, uh,
you know, the the supervisor comes out and she says, sir,
(07:02):
this has never happened. I don't even know what to do.
Here's what I'm going to tell you. We're going to
just erase this from our records in this office. Just
don't do it again. I said, Praise God. Praise God.
God is a deliverer, baby. Because I thought I was
going to jail, man. And and so here's what happened.
Here's the end of the story. So because of that now,
(07:23):
whenever my job started laying off and I was one
of the ones that got laid off and, um, uh,
I went to unemployment and they said, well, you can
only get $158 a week because you're you're a single person.
I said, I'm married. Well, not according to our records.
Your wife and children are on welfare. I said no, no, see,
(07:43):
I was gaming on them. Well, that ain't we ain't
got nothing to do with that. This is what you get.
So now it's like, I don't, man, I don't have
a job. I can't take care of my family. So then,
you know, I got an undesirable discharge from the military.
And so, I mean, this thing is all stacked against me.
So they said city of Pittsburgh has 50 job openings,
and there were over 2000 applicants. I said, I can't go.
I might as well not go, Ray said. You don't
(08:06):
believe God, that God can overcome your past? I said, well, yeah,
he did. He said, what did he do with the
welfare thing? He said, go down there and apply for
the job. So I went down and applied for the job,
I got it. Now let me let me tell you
what happened before. The guy used to sell drugs for Clyde.
I don't know if you remember Clyde, but anyway, Clyde, uh,
I was talking to him before I got this job. Uh,
I was talking to him, and he said, yeah, you broke.
(08:28):
Now you did, you know. Come on, you might as
well come on back, you know, and get your drugs
from me, man. You know? No, no, no, I ain't
into that. Jesus, you know, blah blah blah. I'm telling you.
He said. Yeah, I heard about that. He said, but
if you're Jesus so powerful, how come you don't have
a job? Man, that hurt me, man, I went home,
I got down on my knees. I said, did you
hear what he said? That's that's the way I did it.
(08:49):
I was I was newly saved. You know, I wasn't
all that prim and proper. Oh, God, that dwelleth thou I, I,
I come from the streets, so I that's the way
I talk to him, you know, and I, truth be known,
I still talk to him that way. I say I
don't like it. I'm going to tell you I don't
like it because you told me to come boldly to
the throne of grace. Alright? I don't like what's going on.
I gotta deal with it. But Lord, you're gonna have
(09:10):
to do something. And so I told. I said, you
hear what he said about you? He talking about if
you're so great, how come I don't have a job now? Lord,
this thing is deeper than just. I need to pay
the rent. Because I've been telling all these people how
good you are. You got to get me a job.
So then Ray told me, going down there and applied,
I applied, I got the job. The first person I
told after my wife was Clyde. I went down the alley.
I knocked on his door. And Clyde, guess what, man
(09:32):
you was talking about last week? About your God. So great.
How come you don't have a job? I got a job.
And not just any job. I got a job I
shouldn't even have because the city wasn't even supposed to
hire me. But my God is so powerful that he
overruled the rules. Because my God is the God who
makes the rules. And I said, and then I took
him down Romans Road. Now that's why I come to
(09:54):
tell you once again, you know that the wages of
sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.
All have sinned come short and I'm telling them. Witness
to him. And he says, man, get out of my face.
I said, you can pray a prayer of faith, man.
Just ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart. Man no,
I don't want to hear. He slammed the door in
my face. Fast forward the video a couple years ago,
probably about eight now, I was asked to go up
to Grand Rapids and preach to some brethren up there
(10:18):
about about about 3 or 400 of them. And I'm preaching.
I preach Friday night, then I preach two messages on
Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon I finished the message. A guy
come running to me and he said to me, he said,
he said, man, I've been waiting years, almost 20 years
to talk to you. I said, what? He said, you
(10:39):
don't know who I am. I said, no, he said,
I'm Clyde's brother, Clyde. Clyde who? You know what, Clyde
I'm talking about. I said, man, come on. Are you serious?
He said, yeah. And I've been asking people, when are
you coming back home? And every time you come home,
the preacher of home church, I miss you. But now
(10:59):
I live in Detroit. I gotta tell you, I've been
wanting to tell you this story for over 20 years.
What story? He said the day that you witnessed to
my brother Clyde, I was in the living room. You
were on the porch. And when you told him. Romans 623,
Romans 523, Romans ten nine and ten and asked him
to pray. I did, I got saved. Now get this,
(11:23):
I said, man, man, praise the Lord. He said, no, no, no, no.
He said, all through, all through grammar school, all through
high school I lived for the Lord. The Lord. When
I got ready to graduate, he said, I'm calling you
to preach for me. So don't go to a secular school.
I got a full ride. Don't go to secular school,
go to a Christian college. So I went to a
Christian college. I'm just graduating now, the Bible College of Detroit,
(11:46):
getting ready to go to seminary. I'm going to be
a pastor. And I said, I've got to tell him
how God used him, and he didn't even know it.
S2 (11:57):
What a story, isn't it? You're listening to Treasure Truth
with Pastor Ford. A message called Winning the Lost. No
matter the cost. And we're going to get back to
this teaching in just a moment. And maybe you have
a story of how God has used you to bring
someone to a saving faith. We'd be encouraged to read that.
You can give us your feedback about the program, share
your stories, or even ask a question of Pastor Ford.
(12:19):
Just come to our website, npr.org. Click on the contact link,
fill out that form, and we'll make sure that Pastor
Ford sees that. And who knows? If you ask a question,
we may answer that in a future broadcast. Again, come
to Treasure Truth Radio org and click on the contact
link back to the message. Here is Pastor Ford.
S1 (12:40):
Paul said, hey, I was hindered and God says it's
a divine interruption. So you've been praying five years, ten years,
15 years. Now you're ready to give up. Don't you
dare give up. You keep on sharing because you don't
know the domino effect of what's happening. As you share
with a person what God is going to do, and
(13:00):
he says converts. Now, let me just let me just
drop this on you. Uh, because, you know, when you
win converts, you get a crown. This this amazes me
about Jesus. He doing all the work in me, and
he giving me all the reward. Now, how many crowns
can you get? I know you know this. Okay, let me.
Let me walk through these crowns real quick. You know
I'm already. There's the incorruptible crown. First Corinthians 925 through 27.
(13:23):
That's for people who master the flesh. Who walk in
the spirit more than they walk in the flesh. Then
the second crown you can get is called the crown
of glory. That's the shepherd's crown. It's given to all
pastors who faithfully shepherd God's flock. And you say, well,
then that's not for us. Yes, it is, because when
(13:44):
you come in and God has gifted you and brought
you to this place, and you say, I espouse the vision,
I'm getting involved in the plan and purpose of God,
then you get that crown because you work with me
to fulfill God's vision and purpose for this local assembly. Alright. Why?
Because if you give a prophet a cup of water
(14:05):
in the name of the Lord, you receive a prophet's reward.
Then the crown of life. James 112 is also revelation
two seven and it's given to those who faithfully endure temptation.
And it's a martyr's crown for all of those who
lose their life for the cause of Christ. Like the
over 2 million people, uh, every six months that's given
(14:26):
their life for Christ. Then there's the crown of righteousness.
Second Timothy four eight. It's given to those who live
right and who love the rapture of the church. Then
this one, the one that I'm talking about, converts that
everybody who drops a seed, everybody who witnesses is somebody.
God says you've got a crown of rejoicing. What is that?
(14:50):
It's given to those who win. Souls who witness for
the Lord. It's a crown that you can get. Amen.
Notice secondly, with me. Notice. secondly with me. Here's the
second stick of dynamite that Paul was going to throw
into our laps. He says because of verse, verse 13,
notice because of compulsion, verse 14, notice he says, I
(15:14):
am debtor both to the Greeks and the barbarians, both
to the wise and the unwise. Wait a minute. The
word debtor means you have an obligation. Now get this.
Who's this obligation to or to whom is this obligation? Christ.
Get this. Paul says, I owe a debt to Jesus
that I pay to you. How do you pay your
(15:37):
debt to Jesus? Tell somebody else about him. Because the
gospel is just one beggar telling another beggar where to
find bread. Yeah. Here's here's what the Bible said. He
who gives to the poor lends to the Lord. Isn't
that a powerful principle? That's why I don't ever hesitate.
I don't hesitate, sister. Hit me up last night. Me
(15:59):
and my children, I said, okay, boom, boom. I gave
it to her. Why? Because I know I can't outgive God.
I gave it to her. I lent it to the Lord.
And I don't know about you. I'm biblical. Sometimes I
remind them, I remember I lent that money. I gave
it to her. But you told me you was going
to pay it back. Hey, man, I don't know what
(16:20):
y'all doing. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Say,
what's he doing now? Get this. It's a financial debt
to all men. The word obligation is a financial term.
He says I have a debt to all men. See,
the Greeks called everybody barbarians. Why didn't he say Jews?
He said Greeks and barbarians. Because he's speaking to those
who are sophists, say sophists. There are people who who
(16:43):
were erudite. They were people who like to pontificate, who
really were into the the. Okay, let me see if
I can get you to understand. They were bougie. Okay.
Now you understand. Yeah. Or they were. No. That's a
ghetto person who who's trying to be bougie. Yeah. And
(17:04):
so and so they always look down on other people.
And every time I hear it, you people, it's a
derogatory term. I say you people, who is you people.
I mean, you know, you know, you people. Have you
ever noticed? We're proud of things of which we have
no control. We're proud of race. We're proud of face.
(17:25):
We're proud of grace, and we're proud of place. And
we had nothing to do with any of them. Do
you think that most of of us in here would
look like we look, if we could have picked our
own face? Hey, man. No, we got used to it.
(17:47):
Should I tell everybody I'm a good looking black man?
I don't care what anybody say. Shoot. God, don't make
no junk. But I am somebody. That's it. You know
I already got a woman. Ah. That's right. So she
think I look good? I don't care what everybody else say. Shoot,
I ain't, ain't nobody else. Give me no money. And
(18:08):
so he says listen, it's kind of like it's kind
of like, uh, there was a Angelo brother and the
Chinese brother. They were friends. And so the Chinese brother said,
come to a funeral with me. So they went to
the funeral, and the Chinese brother went up and took
a bowl of rice and put it by the picture.
So he comes back and American Brother says to him,
what is that all about? He said, well, when somebody dies,
(18:30):
we take the rice and we put it up there
because some people believe, I don't believe it, but it's
just a custom. Some people believe that they'll eat the rice.
He said, well, when are they going to eat the rice?
He said, well, when the people who you give flowers
start smelling them. Make sense to me. And so what's
(18:50):
going on here? He's saying listen, listen, listen, listen. Do
you have an obligation? Do you feel obligated? Let me
let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me
tell you. Uh, Pastor Hickman, pastor Hickman is a friend
of mine. But you know what? You know what that
hanging out with that brother has done with me. Not
only educating me about what he talked to you about,
because we talk about that kind of stuff all the time.
(19:10):
But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what happened.
I tell you what happened. He takes me to Maggiano's.
Have you ever been to Maggiano's? I ain't never been
to Gino's. You've been in Chicago all this time. You've
never been. I ain't never been to Maggiano, man, you know?
Come on, Imma take you. So we go. We go
to Marciano's. And so a lady walks up to us.
She's pushing a cart. She's a bag lady. She says, uh,
(19:32):
excuse me, gentlemen, I don't do drugs. And never have
I lost my family, my home, because I was a homemaker.
My husband worked in a fortune 500 company. He got
hooked on drugs. We lost everything. My children are gone.
Husband's gone. House is gone, I lost everything. Could you
help me out? He pulls out five, $100 bills. Don't
y'all mess with that man. And gifts, he says. I
(19:56):
know why God told me to take this out because
I wasn't going to take it out because I don't
do cash. But God told me when I was at
the bank, you're going to give to somebody and you'll
know who it is when I tell you. And he
gave her $500 bills. She said, oh, I can stay
at the Y for a couple months. Oh, thank you,
(20:16):
thank you, thank you. I looked at him, I said,
I don't do drugs. But but but you know what?
Here's what, here's what happened. Here's what I saw Elder Betts,
over time of just hanging with him and just it's
like I'm way more generous than I ever was just
(20:39):
by hanging out with that man. Now, let me tell
you why. Because now, when somebody bless me, like somebody
blessed us and said, okay, I'm going to let you
go downtown and I'm going to let you go on
my dime. We stayed in a $600 a night room
for $95 a night. I mean, come on now. Don't
hate celebrate. God will let you participate. Now guess what? We're. That's.
(21:01):
Guess what we do now. Here's what we do. Every
time somebody does something like that for us, we look
for somebody to bless. We say, who is it that
have an anniversary coming up and they may just have
a meal, may not be, you know, okay, let's, let's
send them to, let's send them to a couple days
or send them to a meal or do and that's
what we do. We look for somebody to bless why
we feel so obligated. Because we now don't you feel
(21:24):
obligated if God saved you from crack? Don't you want
a crack head to get saved? If God saved you
from being a whore or a whoremonger, why don't you
want somebody else to stop horn and quit being a
horn monger, a drinker, or a drugger a beater abuser?
If God did it for you, he could do it.
Don't you feel obligated to let somebody know who's going
(21:45):
through what you went through? That God is a healer.
That God is a deliverer. That God can set you free.
That he can write your name in the Lamb's Book
of Life. We ought to feel obligated.
S2 (22:00):
You know, you don't have to have a dramatic story
of conversion. Maybe your story is about how God brought
you through depression or discouragement. Maybe it's how he saved
your marriage. No matter who you are, there's someone out
there going through a similar experience and you know you
can help. You're listening to Treasure Truth with Pastor Ford.
You can find us online at Treasure Truth radio.org. You know, pastor,
(22:22):
as someone tunes in and listens to Moody Radio, not
only are they going to hear this Bible teaching program,
but just a wide array or variety of programming that
can really be used to encourage and help them grow
in their walk with Christ?
S1 (22:35):
Oh, yes. And you're going to hear things that are
going to build you up in your most precious faith
in Jesus Christ. Uh, you know, it's amazing to me.
I say it all the time. But, you know, sometimes
what we do is we buy things we don't need
with money. We don't have to amass bills we can't
pay to please people we don't like and don't care anyway.
(22:57):
We are going to be held accountable for our stewardship.
Isn't it amazing that we can send it ahead by
giving to Moody Radio?
S2 (23:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
S1 (23:07):
Because that's an investment that draws a dividend that has
eternal consequences. And I mean, when you invest in Moody Radio,
you are actually investing in the only two things that
last forever the word of God and the souls of
men and women.
S2 (23:25):
Well, you can make an investment right now by coming
to our website. It is Treasure Truth radio.org. Click on
the donate button. We need both the ongoing monthly gifts
and the one time gifts. Again, that's at Treasure Truth Radio.
Thanks for giving and for listening. And thanks also to
our producer, Amy Rios. For Pastor Ford, I'm Steve Hiller.
Treasure truth is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
(23:47):
of Moody Bible Institute.
Paul says, I owe a debt to Jesus that I
pay to you. How do you pay your debt to Jesus?
Tell somebody else about him. Because the gospel is just
one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.
S2 (00:25):
This is treasure truth with pastor and author James Ford Jr,
senior pastor of Christ Bible Church in Chicago. I'm Steve Hiller.
Glad you're with us as we continue a message winning
the lost, no matter the cost. And pastor, really a
great challenge and reminder for us today that we, if
we have been saved by Christ, owe this debt of gratitude.
(00:45):
And what a great way that we get to pay
that debt by sharing that good news with others.
S1 (00:50):
Well, you know, we are those who understand what life
is really all about.
S2 (00:57):
What do you mean by that?
S1 (00:58):
The bottom line life is about our relationship with Jesus Christ. Now,
a lot of people don't believe that, don't live that,
don't believe the Bible, but the essence of life. The
Bible says in him we live and move and have
our being. It goes on to say, apart from him,
we can do nothing. So many people are existing, but
(01:20):
they're not living because life comes through Jesus Christ. Two.
Two Greek words are translated life bios, from which we
get the word biology, which speaks of physical life. But
Zoe is spiritual life. And Zoe. This life, Zoe is
in Christ. And so if I want to live eternally
(01:46):
with him, then I need to know him.
S2 (01:49):
Yeah, well. And that's, you know what we get to
be able to do here on this radio program to
talk all about him, to encourage others to talk about him.
And for the person who says, I know that I
should be telling others about him. But I just get
so overwhelmed. What if I say the wrong thing? What
if they ask me a question I don't know how
to answer? How do you encourage that person?
S1 (02:08):
Well, I would tell them, uh, one of the most
profound answers you can give, uh, when it's a subject
or a question asked that you don't know, here it is.
Three words I don't know. So I'm not called to
tell people about what I don't know. I when he
(02:29):
called to tell people about what I do know and
who I do know. So the woman at the well,
she accepted Jesus Christ and became a believer. She goes
into the village and tells all the men, come see
a man who told me everything I've ever done, and
they all went to see her. Now here's my point.
(02:49):
Let me ask you some questions. Okay? Uh, after she
got saved, did she attend Moody Bible Institute?
S2 (02:54):
She did.
S1 (02:54):
Not. Uh, did she take a class at your church
on evangelism?
S2 (02:58):
She did not.
S1 (02:59):
Know. She just merely went out and told what happened
to her. Yeah. That's witnessing.
S2 (03:04):
Well, and that's a great reminder for all of us
that when we are challenged, we can answer, I don't know.
It's simply sharing our story. Right? I don't know what
he's going to do for you, but this is what
Christ has done for me, right?
S1 (03:16):
Remember, one of the mottos Moody had in the past
was to know him and to make him known. Yeah.
S2 (03:23):
That's it. Well, and that's what, uh, we hope to
do here on this radio broadcast and hopefully encourage you
as you share the good news of the gospel with
those around you. So let's open our Bibles to Romans
chapter one as we continue a message winning the lost.
No matter the cost, here is Pastor Ford.
S1 (03:42):
Success in witnessing is not leading a person to Christ.
Success in witnessing is witnessing about Christ. Here's what he
said one plants, one waters. God gives the increase. Here's
what he said. Jesus himself said, the sower and the
reaper get the same reward. Who's the sower? The one
(04:06):
that planted the seed. The one that put the seed
in the heart. Soil. Who's the reaper? The one that
prayed with him. The one that actually was there when
they actually came to Christ? You mean both of them? Yes.
Because you can't have one without another. You can't have
a reaper if you ain't had a sower. Yeah. Amen.
And you can't have a sower without a reaper, because
(04:27):
then everything's going to go rotten. And so he says,
because of converts. Now, I want you to notice something here.
Because what are we trying to do? We're trying to
let people know about our God who can do what
our God can do. He said, what are you talking about?
Let me show you something. Let me show you something.
I just shared this with the Wednesday crowd. Here's what
Paul says I was hindered. Uh, now, what hindered him?
(04:51):
The work of God hindered him. Now. Now, here's what
we got to realize. This. This thing is powerful to me.
I said, first Thessalonians 218 is is is demonic delay.
But acts 16 six through eight is divine delay. God
stopped him from going. Question. Why? Since he wants to
go there and witness. Are you having him? Wait. My
(05:14):
might I postulate a possibility. Say postulate. I remember when
I got converted, some things changed right away. Some things
didn't change, right? Some things changed. The first thing I did,
anybody remember? Flushed my drugs down the toilet? I used
to have Pepsi-Cola pusher, you know. Remember when Pepsi-Cola bottles?
You could get two cent for them? I was two
cent nickel and dime pusher. And first thing I did
(05:36):
was flush all my drugs down the toilet. That word
got around, man. Ford done lost his mind. He ain't
got religion. And he didn't flush drugs down the toilet.
And then the other thing I was doing, I was
gaming on welfare. Now, let me tell you what that means.
That means I had a job, a good job, but
I had my wife go to welfare office and say
that I had left her and the children, so we
(05:58):
was able to get food stamps just way before we
was able to get food stamps and she got a
medical card. So here I was. I had a good job.
I was working in a factory making top money, and
then she was getting welfare and food stamps and I
was selling drugs. Big bank, big bank, big bank. But
then it backfired because when I got saved, the first
thing I did was I went to the welfare office
because the guilt was on me. And I said, for
(06:19):
two and a half, almost three years, we've been cheating you.
I know I could go to jail, but my guy
who led me to Christ said, one of the first
things I must do is make restitution. So this guy
had me. That's why my marriage is such a wreck.
I had to go tell my wife, every woman that
I ever mess with. You know, I had to go
and confess to everybody what I had stolen and and
make restitution. And I'm going back, you know? Yeah, yeah.
(06:40):
You know, when you're just missing it at your crib
and you thought so, and so did it. I told
you he did it. I know he's like that. I
did it, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Here's
your money back, man. Here's this back. You know, all
that went through all that. But I didn't want to
do that one. He said, well, then you don't want
to be fully obedient to Jesus. I said, okay, so
I go and I'm sitting up there, I'm sweating bullets, man. And, uh,
you know, the the supervisor comes out and she says, sir,
(07:02):
this has never happened. I don't even know what to do.
Here's what I'm going to tell you. We're going to
just erase this from our records in this office. Just
don't do it again. I said, Praise God. Praise God.
God is a deliverer, baby. Because I thought I was
going to jail, man. And and so here's what happened.
Here's the end of the story. So because of that now,
(07:23):
whenever my job started laying off and I was one
of the ones that got laid off and, um, uh,
I went to unemployment and they said, well, you can
only get $158 a week because you're you're a single person.
I said, I'm married. Well, not according to our records.
Your wife and children are on welfare. I said no, no, see,
(07:43):
I was gaming on them. Well, that ain't we ain't
got nothing to do with that. This is what you get.
So now it's like, I don't, man, I don't have
a job. I can't take care of my family. So then,
you know, I got an undesirable discharge from the military.
And so, I mean, this thing is all stacked against me.
So they said city of Pittsburgh has 50 job openings,
and there were over 2000 applicants. I said, I can't go.
I might as well not go, Ray said. You don't
(08:06):
believe God, that God can overcome your past? I said, well, yeah,
he did. He said, what did he do with the
welfare thing? He said, go down there and apply for
the job. So I went down and applied for the job,
I got it. Now let me let me tell you
what happened before. The guy used to sell drugs for Clyde.
I don't know if you remember Clyde, but anyway, Clyde, uh,
I was talking to him before I got this job. Uh,
I was talking to him, and he said, yeah, you broke.
(08:28):
Now you did, you know. Come on, you might as
well come on back, you know, and get your drugs
from me, man. You know? No, no, no, I ain't
into that. Jesus, you know, blah blah blah. I'm telling you.
He said. Yeah, I heard about that. He said, but
if you're Jesus so powerful, how come you don't have
a job? Man, that hurt me, man, I went home,
I got down on my knees. I said, did you
hear what he said? That's that's the way I did it.
(08:49):
I was I was newly saved. You know, I wasn't
all that prim and proper. Oh, God, that dwelleth thou I, I,
I come from the streets, so I that's the way
I talk to him, you know, and I, truth be known,
I still talk to him that way. I say I
don't like it. I'm going to tell you I don't
like it because you told me to come boldly to
the throne of grace. Alright? I don't like what's going on.
I gotta deal with it. But Lord, you're gonna have
(09:10):
to do something. And so I told. I said, you
hear what he said about you? He talking about if
you're so great, how come I don't have a job now? Lord,
this thing is deeper than just. I need to pay
the rent. Because I've been telling all these people how
good you are. You got to get me a job.
So then Ray told me, going down there and applied,
I applied, I got the job. The first person I
told after my wife was Clyde. I went down the alley.
I knocked on his door. And Clyde, guess what, man
(09:32):
you was talking about last week? About your God. So great.
How come you don't have a job? I got a job.
And not just any job. I got a job I
shouldn't even have because the city wasn't even supposed to
hire me. But my God is so powerful that he
overruled the rules. Because my God is the God who
makes the rules. And I said, and then I took
him down Romans Road. Now that's why I come to
(09:54):
tell you once again, you know that the wages of
sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.
All have sinned come short and I'm telling them. Witness
to him. And he says, man, get out of my face.
I said, you can pray a prayer of faith, man.
Just ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart. Man no,
I don't want to hear. He slammed the door in
my face. Fast forward the video a couple years ago,
probably about eight now, I was asked to go up
to Grand Rapids and preach to some brethren up there
(10:18):
about about about 3 or 400 of them. And I'm preaching.
I preach Friday night, then I preach two messages on
Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon I finished the message. A guy
come running to me and he said to me, he said,
he said, man, I've been waiting years, almost 20 years
to talk to you. I said, what? He said, you
(10:39):
don't know who I am. I said, no, he said,
I'm Clyde's brother, Clyde. Clyde who? You know what, Clyde
I'm talking about. I said, man, come on. Are you serious?
He said, yeah. And I've been asking people, when are
you coming back home? And every time you come home,
the preacher of home church, I miss you. But now
(10:59):
I live in Detroit. I gotta tell you, I've been
wanting to tell you this story for over 20 years.
What story? He said the day that you witnessed to
my brother Clyde, I was in the living room. You
were on the porch. And when you told him. Romans 623,
Romans 523, Romans ten nine and ten and asked him
to pray. I did, I got saved. Now get this,
(11:23):
I said, man, man, praise the Lord. He said, no, no, no, no.
He said, all through, all through grammar school, all through
high school I lived for the Lord. The Lord. When
I got ready to graduate, he said, I'm calling you
to preach for me. So don't go to a secular school.
I got a full ride. Don't go to secular school,
go to a Christian college. So I went to a
Christian college. I'm just graduating now, the Bible College of Detroit,
(11:46):
getting ready to go to seminary. I'm going to be
a pastor. And I said, I've got to tell him
how God used him, and he didn't even know it.
S2 (11:57):
What a story, isn't it? You're listening to Treasure Truth
with Pastor Ford. A message called Winning the Lost. No
matter the cost. And we're going to get back to
this teaching in just a moment. And maybe you have
a story of how God has used you to bring
someone to a saving faith. We'd be encouraged to read that.
You can give us your feedback about the program, share
your stories, or even ask a question of Pastor Ford.
(12:19):
Just come to our website, npr.org. Click on the contact link,
fill out that form, and we'll make sure that Pastor
Ford sees that. And who knows? If you ask a question,
we may answer that in a future broadcast. Again, come
to Treasure Truth Radio org and click on the contact
link back to the message. Here is Pastor Ford.
S1 (12:40):
Paul said, hey, I was hindered and God says it's
a divine interruption. So you've been praying five years, ten years,
15 years. Now you're ready to give up. Don't you
dare give up. You keep on sharing because you don't
know the domino effect of what's happening. As you share
with a person what God is going to do, and
(13:00):
he says converts. Now, let me just let me just
drop this on you. Uh, because, you know, when you
win converts, you get a crown. This this amazes me
about Jesus. He doing all the work in me, and
he giving me all the reward. Now, how many crowns
can you get? I know you know this. Okay, let me.
Let me walk through these crowns real quick. You know
I'm already. There's the incorruptible crown. First Corinthians 925 through 27.
(13:23):
That's for people who master the flesh. Who walk in
the spirit more than they walk in the flesh. Then
the second crown you can get is called the crown
of glory. That's the shepherd's crown. It's given to all
pastors who faithfully shepherd God's flock. And you say, well,
then that's not for us. Yes, it is, because when
(13:44):
you come in and God has gifted you and brought
you to this place, and you say, I espouse the vision,
I'm getting involved in the plan and purpose of God,
then you get that crown because you work with me
to fulfill God's vision and purpose for this local assembly. Alright. Why?
Because if you give a prophet a cup of water
(14:05):
in the name of the Lord, you receive a prophet's reward.
Then the crown of life. James 112 is also revelation
two seven and it's given to those who faithfully endure temptation.
And it's a martyr's crown for all of those who
lose their life for the cause of Christ. Like the
over 2 million people, uh, every six months that's given
(14:26):
their life for Christ. Then there's the crown of righteousness.
Second Timothy four eight. It's given to those who live
right and who love the rapture of the church. Then
this one, the one that I'm talking about, converts that
everybody who drops a seed, everybody who witnesses is somebody.
God says you've got a crown of rejoicing. What is that?
(14:50):
It's given to those who win. Souls who witness for
the Lord. It's a crown that you can get. Amen.
Notice secondly, with me. Notice. secondly with me. Here's the
second stick of dynamite that Paul was going to throw
into our laps. He says because of verse, verse 13,
notice because of compulsion, verse 14, notice he says, I
(15:14):
am debtor both to the Greeks and the barbarians, both
to the wise and the unwise. Wait a minute. The
word debtor means you have an obligation. Now get this.
Who's this obligation to or to whom is this obligation? Christ.
Get this. Paul says, I owe a debt to Jesus
that I pay to you. How do you pay your
(15:37):
debt to Jesus? Tell somebody else about him. Because the
gospel is just one beggar telling another beggar where to
find bread. Yeah. Here's here's what the Bible said. He
who gives to the poor lends to the Lord. Isn't
that a powerful principle? That's why I don't ever hesitate.
I don't hesitate, sister. Hit me up last night. Me
(15:59):
and my children, I said, okay, boom, boom. I gave
it to her. Why? Because I know I can't outgive God.
I gave it to her. I lent it to the Lord.
And I don't know about you. I'm biblical. Sometimes I
remind them, I remember I lent that money. I gave
it to her. But you told me you was going
to pay it back. Hey, man, I don't know what
(16:20):
y'all doing. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Say,
what's he doing now? Get this. It's a financial debt
to all men. The word obligation is a financial term.
He says I have a debt to all men. See,
the Greeks called everybody barbarians. Why didn't he say Jews?
He said Greeks and barbarians. Because he's speaking to those
who are sophists, say sophists. There are people who who
(16:43):
were erudite. They were people who like to pontificate, who
really were into the the. Okay, let me see if
I can get you to understand. They were bougie. Okay.
Now you understand. Yeah. Or they were. No. That's a
ghetto person who who's trying to be bougie. Yeah. And
(17:04):
so and so they always look down on other people.
And every time I hear it, you people, it's a
derogatory term. I say you people, who is you people.
I mean, you know, you know, you people. Have you
ever noticed? We're proud of things of which we have
no control. We're proud of race. We're proud of face.
(17:25):
We're proud of grace, and we're proud of place. And
we had nothing to do with any of them. Do
you think that most of of us in here would
look like we look, if we could have picked our
own face? Hey, man. No, we got used to it.
(17:47):
Should I tell everybody I'm a good looking black man?
I don't care what anybody say. Shoot. God, don't make
no junk. But I am somebody. That's it. You know
I already got a woman. Ah. That's right. So she
think I look good? I don't care what everybody else say. Shoot,
I ain't, ain't nobody else. Give me no money. And
(18:08):
so he says listen, it's kind of like it's kind
of like, uh, there was a Angelo brother and the
Chinese brother. They were friends. And so the Chinese brother said,
come to a funeral with me. So they went to
the funeral, and the Chinese brother went up and took
a bowl of rice and put it by the picture.
So he comes back and American Brother says to him,
what is that all about? He said, well, when somebody dies,
(18:30):
we take the rice and we put it up there
because some people believe, I don't believe it, but it's
just a custom. Some people believe that they'll eat the rice.
He said, well, when are they going to eat the rice?
He said, well, when the people who you give flowers
start smelling them. Make sense to me. And so what's
(18:50):
going on here? He's saying listen, listen, listen, listen. Do
you have an obligation? Do you feel obligated? Let me
let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me
tell you. Uh, Pastor Hickman, pastor Hickman is a friend
of mine. But you know what? You know what that
hanging out with that brother has done with me. Not
only educating me about what he talked to you about,
because we talk about that kind of stuff all the time.
(19:10):
But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what happened.
I tell you what happened. He takes me to Maggiano's.
Have you ever been to Maggiano's? I ain't never been
to Gino's. You've been in Chicago all this time. You've
never been. I ain't never been to Maggiano, man, you know?
Come on, Imma take you. So we go. We go
to Marciano's. And so a lady walks up to us.
She's pushing a cart. She's a bag lady. She says, uh,
(19:32):
excuse me, gentlemen, I don't do drugs. And never have
I lost my family, my home, because I was a homemaker.
My husband worked in a fortune 500 company. He got
hooked on drugs. We lost everything. My children are gone.
Husband's gone. House is gone, I lost everything. Could you
help me out? He pulls out five, $100 bills. Don't
y'all mess with that man. And gifts, he says. I
(19:56):
know why God told me to take this out because
I wasn't going to take it out because I don't
do cash. But God told me when I was at
the bank, you're going to give to somebody and you'll
know who it is when I tell you. And he
gave her $500 bills. She said, oh, I can stay
at the Y for a couple months. Oh, thank you,
(20:16):
thank you, thank you. I looked at him, I said,
I don't do drugs. But but but you know what?
Here's what, here's what happened. Here's what I saw Elder Betts,
over time of just hanging with him and just it's
like I'm way more generous than I ever was just
(20:39):
by hanging out with that man. Now, let me tell
you why. Because now, when somebody bless me, like somebody
blessed us and said, okay, I'm going to let you
go downtown and I'm going to let you go on
my dime. We stayed in a $600 a night room
for $95 a night. I mean, come on now. Don't
hate celebrate. God will let you participate. Now guess what? We're. That's.
(21:01):
Guess what we do now. Here's what we do. Every
time somebody does something like that for us, we look
for somebody to bless. We say, who is it that
have an anniversary coming up and they may just have
a meal, may not be, you know, okay, let's, let's
send them to, let's send them to a couple days
or send them to a meal or do and that's
what we do. We look for somebody to bless why
we feel so obligated. Because we now don't you feel
(21:24):
obligated if God saved you from crack? Don't you want
a crack head to get saved? If God saved you
from being a whore or a whoremonger, why don't you
want somebody else to stop horn and quit being a
horn monger, a drinker, or a drugger a beater abuser?
If God did it for you, he could do it.
Don't you feel obligated to let somebody know who's going
(21:45):
through what you went through? That God is a healer.
That God is a deliverer. That God can set you free.
That he can write your name in the Lamb's Book
of Life. We ought to feel obligated.
S2 (22:00):
You know, you don't have to have a dramatic story
of conversion. Maybe your story is about how God brought
you through depression or discouragement. Maybe it's how he saved
your marriage. No matter who you are, there's someone out
there going through a similar experience and you know you
can help. You're listening to Treasure Truth with Pastor Ford.
You can find us online at Treasure Truth radio.org. You know, pastor,
(22:22):
as someone tunes in and listens to Moody Radio, not
only are they going to hear this Bible teaching program,
but just a wide array or variety of programming that
can really be used to encourage and help them grow
in their walk with Christ?
S1 (22:35):
Oh, yes. And you're going to hear things that are
going to build you up in your most precious faith
in Jesus Christ. Uh, you know, it's amazing to me.
I say it all the time. But, you know, sometimes
what we do is we buy things we don't need
with money. We don't have to amass bills we can't
pay to please people we don't like and don't care anyway.
(22:57):
We are going to be held accountable for our stewardship.
Isn't it amazing that we can send it ahead by
giving to Moody Radio?
S2 (23:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
S1 (23:07):
Because that's an investment that draws a dividend that has
eternal consequences. And I mean, when you invest in Moody Radio,
you are actually investing in the only two things that
last forever the word of God and the souls of
men and women.
S2 (23:25):
Well, you can make an investment right now by coming
to our website. It is Treasure Truth radio.org. Click on
the donate button. We need both the ongoing monthly gifts
and the one time gifts. Again, that's at Treasure Truth Radio.
Thanks for giving and for listening. And thanks also to
our producer, Amy Rios. For Pastor Ford, I'm Steve Hiller.
Treasure truth is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
(23:47):
of Moody Bible Institute.
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