What happens when you’ve optimized everything… and growth still stalls? In this episode, Dan and Ian break down a powerful distinction most founders miss: the difference between optimization (making your business run smoother) and growth (finding and testing new paths to scale). They unpack insights from Growth Levers by Matt Lerner, a framework that helped PayPal and other startups unlock massive growth and why it still applies to bootstrappers today.
You’ll also get a behind-the-scenes look at how Dan and Ian run operations in under 5 hours per week using the “Four Bricks”: financials, a measured plan, individual scorecards, and pulse meetings (aka the Daily Huddle). Plus: why growth experiments often fail, how to avoid optimization creep, and how interviewing your customers using the “Jobs to Be Done” framework can reveal the 10% that leads to 90% of your growth.
LINKS:
“Growth Levers and How to Find Them” by Matt Lerner (https://www.amazon.com/Growth-Levers-How-Find-Them/dp/173842622X)
“Scaling Up” By Verne Harnish (https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Up-Mastering-Rockefeller-Habits/dp/0986019593/ref=sr_1_1?crid=I82ETY13E1ZJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.EunjEAWizJJCnRStrVvxOJwktAGOrvzCg7v4AoNJfIU6bVKGlwoaahD13GvmODVvdHfxaCtbalOfRWgZOg5S21BtHBMaKYq62OqBxcVCNbGCvxTyjwgDSB-CCVhwxnkkdUIfFUnmjvgMdP0NNqU-7ueWn59X5uFP1GVKtTr9KukRePtfM9H9riTjX7cbPcSSX6o8FtAMy464cHeRDDiEG-HRIkkMFr6E78CM5s3og_g.lpyuAh6r5azEIrwxxEgYJiq8LPg5qtpavZ6HnojzTvo&dib_tag=se&keywords=scaling+up&qid=1751519981&s=books&sprefix=scaling+up%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C115&sr=1-1)
Daily Huddle Template (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14i_qZjKFDP_IEjiF3XHd1j41H6Vop_Cp987L41QjXOQ/edit?tab=t.0)
Company Scoreboard Template (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ArOv-eMCWIxF8Yk3ngUlAuxITgMK3GUR5E6mfw57vR4/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.3olbivi0zybz)
Individual Scorecard Template (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J_EGV0SnmhjBRRYr5GDnUGV9ULTd1Bbz9RaJQfEVAQw/edit?tab=t.0)
“Jobs to Be Done” Interview Framework (https://www.dscout.com/people-nerds/the-jobs-to-be-done-interviewing-style-understanding-who-users-are-trying-to-become)
Dan’s Four Bricks presentation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZooQo760Ik&ab_channel=TropicalMBA)
Connect with generous global entrepreneurs (https://dynamitecircle.com/)
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:13) Intro: Founders, Channels, and What’s Working in 2025
(00:01:40) Growth vs Optimization: The Lens That Changes Everything
(00:09:34) The Four Bricks: How to Run Ops in Under 5 Hours/Week
(00:18:38) Why Most Teams Avoid Growth
(00:20:32) Growth Levers: The 10% That Drives 90% of Growth
(00:28:00) Jobs to Be Done: Why Customers Really Buy
(00:33:26) Growth Sprints: How to Experiment Without Burning Out
(00:36:22) Common Mistakes That Kill Growth Early
CONNECT:
Dan@tropicalmba.com
Ian@tropicalmba.com
Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella.
PLAYLIST:
“It’s easier to 10X than to 2X” + 8 Lessons from CEO Bootcamp (https://tropicalmba.com/episodes/easier-10x-than-2x)
Building ‘Brick by Brick’: Goals, Plans, Scorecards, Cadence (https://tropicalmba.com/episodes/brick-by-brick)
90-Day Growth Plan in 10 Questions (https://tropicalmba.com/episodes/90-day-growth)
The Wheel of Despair and the Paradox of Growth (https://tropicalmba.com/episodes/wheel-despair-paradox-growth)