Coal In Ground, Something In The Sky

Mike tells the story of a sighting in Carbondale, Pennsylvania, on November 9, 1974.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hudson River Radio dot Com. We could be worse.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Kathleen Martin.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to UFO Headquarters, Beautiful Headquarters. Thank you Kathleen
Martin for that bless him introduction. Every time I hear it,
I love it. You Welcome to UFO Headquarters. I'm Michael

(00:27):
Warden with of course Linda Zimmerman. Linda. Good evening or good.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Afternoon, whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I don't know. I just finished a major multi year
book project, so I'm a little fried. So I'm glad
you're taking the lead tonight.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I think you should at least shamelessly promote what it's about.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
I have been tracking a Civil War soldier for over
thirty years. Finally, in the last couple of years found
enough letters, diaries, information to write a book, which I
did obsessively, compulsively, hardly sleeping or eating. But it's finally done.

(01:09):
It should be up on Amazon in a couple of days.
It's on Barnes and Noble. Now it's called a Civil
War Soldier and Me because it's not only his whole history,
but my dogged pursuit from Maine to North Carolina to

(01:30):
follow him.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
So I don't just do UFOs.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
And I know I've been privy to some of the
project that she's worked on, and go get the book.
Not a Civil War fan, the story itself is just fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, there's been a lot of calls to Mike, Mike,
what do you think of that? Can you find something
on this? So you were very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
You don't have to be a Civil War buff for
anything to know. I'm telling you, I haven't read the
whole book yet, and I know it's going to be awesome.
I can't wait to read it.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
So before we start into tonight's episode, I did want
to read a letter that was sent to me by
a former law enforcement officer, so I do know the source.
It's a credible source and it's Hey, Mike, I thought
of telling you about this particular sighting of an object
I witnessed years ago, but I neglected too because I
felt like it was not conclusive enough and I did

(02:26):
not wish to waste your time. I've listened to UFO
headquarters for some time and really appreciate how you and
Linda keep up on the collection and research of local
unexplained phenomena. I was recently catching up on some of
your past episodes and listened to the show in which
you spoke about the port drivers police officers who had
a number of sightings in the nineteen sixties. It was

(02:48):
then that I decided it was time to tell you
my simple story and hopes that maybe it will bring
another witness forward. The events took place in Warwick, New York,
at the drive in Movie Theater, which is still in
operation today.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, it is great driving.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Probably one of the last that you can probably find
at this point. One summer night, as a toddler, I
attended the movies with my mother, my aunt, and my
older sister. Before the movie started, I remember my mom
and aunt, who were sitting in the front seat of
the car, suddenly focusing on something in the distant sky.

(03:25):
They conversed in some substance about what the mysterious object
was that they were seeing. I wormed my way between
them and they tried to point the object out to
me and my sister. Being too young and inexperienced to
have reference between what should or should not be in
the sky, I only recall looking at clouds. At some point,

(03:46):
the object was gone, and my mom referred to the
object as a UFO there after. Years later, as a
teenager in the early nineties, at the same drive in theater,
I was at the very end of the summer season.
It was with a handful of friends to see the
movie Terminator two. I'll Be Back. We sat outside of

(04:10):
the car on the cool, clear night air, crisp enough
that we had to wear jackets and clear in a
way that let you know summer was over because all
the stars were brightly visible. The moon was bright and
on the full side, hanging low on the horizon. During
the movie, as I often do, I took a moment
to look up and take in the view of the sky.

(04:31):
Just then an object at low altitude flew by directly
overhead at an extremely high speed. The object was roughly
triangular in shape and dark in color. I know it
was material in nature because the only reason I observed
it was due to the moonlight shining from the low

(04:51):
angle of the moon on the horizon, illuminating it as
it traversed overhead. Mind you, as it moved, so so
did the moonlight on the surface area of the object,
which gave a very good indication of shape. More of
an acute isosceles or arrowhead with a sharp front and

(05:13):
an equilateral or what we might now know as the
rough shape of a stealth fighter. The approximate size of
the object was a little larger than a Cessna type airplane,
and its altitude was also equivalent to where you would
think for that sort of small aircraft. This is where
the similarities ended. There were absolutely no lights illuminating it

(05:35):
other than the moonlight. The material seemed to be dark,
but glossy enough to allow the moonlight to reflect very well.
And then there was the astonishing speed. The only reference
I have for the speed would be to equate it
to a shooting star. From my viewpoint in that open setting,
with a field of view nearly horizontal horizon. The horizon

(05:59):
from when I first to when it disappeared out of
my view it must have traversed two thirds of the
sky almost instantaneously, because I was already looking up. Once
I caught the movement of the object in the corner
of my left eye, I instinctly focused on it and
tracked it until it had disappeared from sight to my

(06:20):
extreme right. Also instinctively, due to the speed and low
altitude of the object, I flinched hard and sort of
laid back toward the ground, waiting for a sonic boom
or at least a loud roar of an engine. There
was absolutely no sound whatsoever, nothing, not even a wush
of wind. Almost immediately my friends asked what I was doing,

(06:41):
as I was also stating what the hell was that.
It quickly became apparent that I was the only person
looking up and not watching the movie. I literally asked
the strangers around us, around us if anyone was just
looking up and if they had seen anything. All answered
to the negative. And the years since, I entered a

(07:02):
career where clear, accurate and precise reporting was vital. Became
a police officer and investigator, a special weapons and tactics
operator team leader, completed the career as a police chief.
So this is someone who has clearly risen through the

(07:23):
ranks and knows what they're talking about. I have served
as an expert and an expert witness on many occasions,
and to my knowledge, no one has ever accused me
of being prone to fantasy, delusion or naivety. I was,
by no means an expert on aircraft, but anyone that

(07:44):
lives in southern Orange County, New York is very used
to seeing and hearing all kinds of aircraft at various altitudes.
The flight patterns from major area airports and military bases
all intersect over this region. I had never foreseen anything
like this object before that day, nor have I since
I'll be listening to your future episodes and if you

(08:06):
read my story, I truly hope that if anyone else
has seen this object that night, that they write to
you with the details of their event. So I want
to thank him personally for reaching out and sending that
to me, but also for trusting us to present his
story anonymously, but you know, hopefully to get that story
out there and maybe others have have heard of it.

(08:29):
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Fantastic, that's a wonderful account. And as soon as you
mentioned Warwick Drive in I've spoken to numerous witnesses who
have seen triangular craft over the Warwick Drive in. One
that comes to mind they said it was there's a

(08:53):
price chopper. In recent years has been I think it's
a price chopper. A supermarket has been built to cross
the street. And someone said the movie wasn't so good,
I think, and they're you know, kind of wandering their
their vision and they saw a triangle over the supermarket
across the street, and other people have seen and it's

(09:17):
always as if I can recall correctly, it's always been
triangular craft that has been seen. I would have to
check my book with the dates and the stories, but
I love it. Another triangular UFO sighting what's going on
over the Warwick drive in?

Speaker 1 (09:38):
It sounds like extraterrestrials trying to get a free movie.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
That's the admission feeb Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Drive ins have been great locations over the decades because
people are outside and if you're sitting outside your car
or in you know, p both set up chairs, or
if you have a convertible, you're there for hours and
hours and the movie isn't so good. Uh you know,

(10:09):
your your vision is wandering. So I love it, love it,
great account. Thank thank you, whoever you are who sent that.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
I remember as a kid going and we would lay
on like the hood of the front of the car,
my brother and eye, and half the time you're staring
up at the sky because you're you know, you're a
kid in your Mind's a million places, but definitely an
interesting story. So if anybody's had similar experiences, please feel
free to reach out to us. And before we get
into tonight's really interesting incident, we're going to take our

(10:44):
first break. Hudson River Radio dot Com. Hudson River Radio
dot Com. Hey, welcome back. We now are going to
go from Warwick, New York, to the coal country of Pennsylvania,

(11:09):
specifically to the town of Carbondale. I'm sort of in
between Honesdale and Scranton, if that helps people with a
little perspective. And it's again a quiet little town where
some teenagers saw something fall into the lake. And we'll

(11:30):
get into a little but I want to just mention
what Carbondale itself, the significance of this little town. Founded
in the eighteen twenties, it was one of the first
sites of anthracite coal mining in the United States. It
was a vital rail hub for the Delaware and Hudson
Canal Company. So, you know, anthracite coal from Scranton Carbondale

(11:52):
would be loaded onto these you know, gravity railroads and
brought to Honesdale and then on the canal all the
way down through Port Jervis, through the Hudson Valley all
the way up to Kingston, where it would get onto
boats and go down to the Hudson, New York City.
So I wonder how many some of those Delaware and

(12:12):
Hudson Canal operators, what kind of things they might have
seen over those years. So unfortunately they're long gone. But
for decades it was really coal. It was a coal industry.
And in the twentieth century, when coal began to decline,
you know, so did Carbondale and it fell on hard times.

(12:33):
Like many towns. In the nineteen seventies, it was a
quiet town and it really was a shadow of what
it once was. And that all changed in November of
nineteen seventy four, on a cold November night, a glowing
object fell from the sky into Carbondale and sparked a

(12:54):
mystery which some people think even today has been a
governmental cover up. So it's November ninth, nineteen seventy four.
It's a clear night, so the stars are visible, it's crisp,
and there's three teenage boys hanging out, John Lloyd, William Lloyd,
and Robert Gillette. And they're hanging out near a place

(13:16):
called Russell Park that has a pond in it, and
they see something flashing across the sky which catches their attention,
and a bright glowing object with a comet like tail,
streaks overhead and crashes into the small pond in this park.

(13:36):
The boys describe it, however, as slowing down and almost
seeming to maybe hover right before it crashed into the water,
So it wasn't like just a complete freefall where it
landed directly. It was almost like it slowed down and
then it stopped and hit the water. So, of course

(13:58):
the boys they call the police, and a couple of
interesting quotes here. One of them was the police say
three boys reported seeing a glowing object land in the reservoir.
Officers found bubbles rising from the surface and cordoned off
the area. Soon after that, the pond started to glow.

(14:22):
Never a good sign.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
No bubbling and glowing not something you want to see
in your local reservoir.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Now, being a small you know, I mean, Carbondale's relatively
small community, people start to gather. Rumors start to fly,
and people want to know what just came out of
the sky into Russell Pond. So the police when they
arrive again, they locate these bubbles rising up and there's
a strange light coming from the pond. By the morning,

(14:55):
hundreds of people are gathered there's reporters swarming it. Amateur
photographers are taking photographs. There's even a radio station that
sends up a helicopter that tries to get a scoop.
Now we're talking nineteen seventy four. The Scranton Times Tribune
wrote that spectators lined the perimeter of Russell Park as

(15:16):
officials debated how to retrieve the object. The light, witnesses say,
continued to glow into the night. People are excited, nervous.
Some talk of alien visitors, others of military experiments. Theories
are flying as fast as the object itself. So the object,

(15:39):
whatever it is, it's going to be need to be retrieved.
But are the residents of Carbondale really ready for what
they're going to find? Well, two days later they bring
in divers, and these divers go into the water and
they do recover something. They come up to the surface
with an object. It is not a spacecraft, It is

(16:00):
not a meteorite. Linda, did you want to take a
guess at what they came up with.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
I believe it was a type of flashlight.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Close it was a rusty battery powered railroad lantern.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't know that rusty lanterns underwater are still capable
of working well.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Authority said it must have been a prank and thrown
into the water, perhaps as a prank or a hoax.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Mm hm. And how did that account for the bubbling
and the objects shooting through the sky.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, we're going to talk about that soon. Well, as
you can imagine, Much like a lot of stories we
talk about, not everybody bought that official explanation. Many locals
said the lantern didn't match the light they saw. They
also said the lantern couldn't have glowed for that long underwater,

(16:59):
Like you said, how long was the battery powered lantern
built from the nineteen seventies, not knowing when it was manufactured,
assuming it even worked, how long is that really gonna
stay on?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
And I think we should do a test. We should
get a similar battery powered lantern like that. Probably can
get one on eBay and toss it into a lake
and see what happens.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
All right, we should do that. That would be really fun.
Actually right, all right, we're gonna have to work on
that one now. Much like other incidents we talk about. Also,
people start seeing men in dark suits, unmarked vehicles, strange
scientific instruments, including people with Geiger counters. So townspeople want

(17:44):
to know, well, what did they find before this lantern?
The lantern seemed like a very convenient story, but they
felt that something else, bigger was going on, and I
think let's take a second break before we delve into
what really is going on. Jump into our second break, Brian,
this is Hudson.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
This is Hudson River Radio dot Com. We're back with
a lantern at the bottom of a lake in Carbondale, Pennsylvania.
That's the end of the story. Everybody, goodnight.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Sounds sounds reasonable to me.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
At least it wasn't swamp gas or venus that the
kids saw.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
That's true, you know, venus at.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
The bottom of the pond. It's possible. Well, in the aftermaths,
there were quite a few theories that began to take shape,
and of course, one of the biggest ones was a
government cover up, and witnesses claimed that they saw federal
agents who appeared very rapidly in quiet. They sealed off

(19:02):
the site and they may have removed something before crowds
started to really gather. So there's rumors that something was
trucked out of the site. And covered up like on
a tarp or with a tarp over it. No complete
evidence of that, but these are what some people claim

(19:23):
to have seen. The late arrival of divers and the
overnight glow that mysteriously stopped added to that suspicion. And
again people said they saw agents or men with Geiger counters,
and they insisted these conspiracy who believed it was a

(19:43):
cover up, insisted that the real object was removed and
the lantern was just planted there sort of as a
convenient explanation. So they took the alien object and in
its place left some rinking railroad lantern battery operated. Now

(20:07):
there's a hoax theory, and it's reasonable to sort of
look at this from multiple angles. I know, we always
talk about this. Skeptics said the teens may have simply
thrown the lantern into the water themselves, seeking attention, or
just pulling a prank. Railroad lanterns from that era could
shine brightly if they still had battery. Life theories suggested

(20:32):
the boys never imagined it would escalate to such a level,
but once the press arrived, it was too late to
change their story. Now, if we remember, the boys are
the ones who reported this in the first place to
the police, So I'm not sure if they were looking
to pull a hoax. They never really said it was
a UFO. They just saw something crash into the water

(20:56):
and notified the police department. Seems like a stretch that
the kids or trying to get attention by throwing an old,
you know, lantern into the into the pond. So I
definitely don't buy that one. I don't know what you
think about that, Linda, but.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, it's they weren't saying they weren't being invaded by aliens.
I think it was more of a concern of some
sort of conventional aircraft maybe had crashed.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Now again we go to the mass hysteria or mass
misinterpretation theory, and this is where you know people note
that in moments of uncertainty and social pressure, people may
unintentionally reinforce shared beliefs. So it's perceptual misattribution, I learned

(21:48):
is the correct.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Terminology, perceptual misattribution.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
I like that. Well. Under this theory, it's argued that
the bright light in the sky sky could have been
a meteor or an aircraft, but in the emotional haze
of the moment, it became something much more.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Why would an aircraft freak people out or a meteor
unless you know, unle, I.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Still don't address the object crashing into.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
The pond, right and seeing the bubbles and the bubbles
and the lights.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
And the light and now did not a newspaper reporter
get a photograph of the like with the.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Lightline want to look? So, I mean, yeah, that's that
sounds like a Project Blue book. I'm surprised I don't
see that one in there and their official reports, you know,
perceptual mass attribution or misattribution misattribution military experiment, which we

(23:00):
hear often. Another theory suggesting that the object was a
secret military aircraft or type of drone that malfunctioned and crashed.
The lantern in this case would have just been a
nice easy scapegoat to divert attention from the military. So
I would suspect the military would have something better than

(23:21):
an old, rusty railroad era lantern. But I guess it's plausible.
And then some just argue as a meteorite and it
fell into the pond.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's pause, that's fine, yep.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean they didn't get in there with you know,
if it was an iron meteorite. They probably didn't go
in there with metal detecting equipment or anything.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
And they feel the lantern was just a coincidence. But
then how did it get turned on if it was glowing?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
You know?

Speaker 1 (23:58):
And and like you said, if people really believed it
was a meteorite, wouldn't they send divers back down maybe
to look for remnants of.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
A meteorite, particularly since they're worth an awful lot of money.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I aren't they valuable, very valuable.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
There was that one I think it was in the
seventies where in peak skill New York, meteorite hit the
back of a woman's car, you know when cars had
big trunks.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
It went right through the trunk.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Into the ground, and she sold the car and the
meteorite to a museum for a lot of money, a
lot of money. So if they really thought it was
a meteorite that went into the pond, a lot more
effort would have been put into that.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I would suspect so. And well, maybe now we're talking
about it, some divers out there going, heyre was that
pond again?

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah? Exactly, not a bad idea to go in And
you know now that it could be a stony media, right,
but I think predominantly they're iron based, you know, metallic.
So you go in there with some good equipment or
even probably don't even have to dive.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
You can probably do it off of a boat.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
And if it's iron, it would be magnetic, right, So
those magnets people use the magnet fishing.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
You can try magnet fishing or just do a do
a scan of the whole lake bottom and see see
if there's any large metallic returns.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Well, if anybody does that, please let us know.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
I'll be there y road trip.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Do we have a way to scan the bottom, because
I'll go with you.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Ah, not yet.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Buried under how many years of muck? And yeah, you know,
but I wanted to mention here that oftentimes when people
talk about this event, they kind of refer to it
as how explanations are giving, and they relate it to
Roswell and Kesburg. So I thought, maybe if you didn't

(26:16):
mind touching upon those two events and how they sort
of washed them away.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, probably everybody knows something about Roswell. Late June early July,
something something crashed near Roswell, New Mexico. July of forty seven.
A rancher, Matt Brazl goes and says, hey, there's this

(26:45):
debris all over my fields, and the military comes picks
it all up, and first they announce they've found a
flying disc. I mean the military. It's not you know,
oh Joe reporter saying that the military announces they found
a flying disc. And then the next day, oh, wait,

(27:06):
did we know it turned out to be a balloon?
I mean, come on, they don't know this. This group
that was at this air Force base, it was a
nuclear bomber group. And if your staff doesn't who has
their finger on the trigger of nuclear bombs doesn't know

(27:31):
a metallic flying saucer from some aluminum foil like balloon.
So maybe it was a military object that crashed. Maybe
it was something far stranger, but to this day they're
sticking with the it was a mogul balloon that you know,

(27:52):
one of those things that go has carries instruments and
goes high in the atmosphere. And so that that was
that explanation. Kesburg, where I've been, they have a I
don't know if it's fiberglass. This was an acorn shaped object.
They have a big fiberglass acorn mounted on a pole

(28:17):
to commemorate. December ninth, nineteen sixty five, Kesburg, Pennsylvania, which
is out in western Pennsylvania. A fireball was seen streaking
through the sky in Canada and six different states and
locals saw this object seemed to maneuver, not go in

(28:41):
a straight line, and crash in the woods. The official
report was it was just a meteor, which was never found.
Years later NASA said, oh, no, we found pieces of
a Soviet satellite, but we lost the report.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
The report's gone, What the hell.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
You lose that?

Speaker 2 (29:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
So the military descended very quickly. Where they came from.
Nobody's quite sure because Kesburg, I don't believe there are
any military bases close by, but they cordon off the
whole area. Supposedly a group of volunteer firefighters and others

(29:31):
saw this roughly eight foot by twelve foot acorn shaped
metallic craft in the woods. Many people saw a flatbed
truck with a object that could have been a large
acorn shape with a tarp over it being taken away,
and the official report was, we found absolutely nothing, nothing

(29:56):
to see here. It was a meteor. So, and I
want to mention July eighteenth through twentieth is the Kecksburg
UFO Festival. So if you're going to be anywhere near
western Pennsylvania or want to go out and you know,

(30:17):
here here the stories. There's still people out there who
remember this. So there you have it, an in a
acorn nutshell.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know, before I continue on, I'm going to ask,
you know, maybe Brian can give us a sound bite
clip of Officer Barb Brady saying, move along, nothing to
see here, move along, and we could just occasionally when
we need to just insert it as needed.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Great idea, because it's sort of.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
What I'm getting at with the Carbondale incident. You know,
it's a very rapid response, it's vague official state mints.
Basically a population the people left with more questions and answers,
and that's it. That's all it's left to be. And unfortunately,
like the carbon Dyl incident, doesn't take on the popularity

(31:15):
that like Kexsburg or even well definitely Roswell. I mean
I think even people that aren't even remotely interested in
ufology know about Roswell. You know. I think that's sort
of like in the popular culture at this point, takes
a little bit more of a UFO nerd like me
or you right to see a little bit familiar with

(31:36):
places like Kexburgh.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
But I think even to you to drive miles out
of your way to see a large fiberglass acorn, to
do that, now, oh yeah, it's cool because you know
something happened there, right, You know, there were many many
witnesses across six states and Canada. They saw something in
the sky and it didn't have the flight characteristics of

(32:01):
a dropping satellite, which wouldn't be maneuvering, and people saw
it laying there in the woods. There's a lot to
this story. We should probably cover it as a as
an episode.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I think we should definitely do that. I would like
to still that. Let's get back to Carbondale, where it's
a relatively shorter episode unfortunately, but locally Carbondale it's sort
of kind of like pine Bush. You know. Pine Bush
is very you know, celebrates their UFO sort of connection

(32:40):
and it's part of their local lore, their their local culture,
and it's same up in Carbondale. It's a legend that's
still or story that still persists up there to this day.
And in fact, like pine Bush, they're almost like they
could be sister cities. They have their own Carbondale UFO Festival.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
And I love the name of it. It is pay
I say it.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yes, it is called Carbon Dalien, the Carbon Dalien Festival.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Love.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
It's very clever and it's one of the definitely came
up with a good name.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yes, and it will be November eighth, twenty twenty five.
Will They just had it for the first time last year.
And if I'm not doing anything November eighth, I'm going.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Oh trip, I'll go with you absolutely up on Route
six and keep going. That's it.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
That's not all that far for us.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
I think it would be a lot of fun to
go up there and see how they how they sort
of remember.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right right right.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
And speaking of Pine Bush, if you're listening in uh May,
June seventh is the next Pine Bush UFO Fair. So
go to the website. All kinds of things are going on,
so definitely check it out.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Will be there right selling books, Oh.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yes, yes, And I'll be speaking for I think ten
ten forty five to eleven fifteen. I think I'm slotted
for on the day the day of Yes, and there's
a I think Nick Pope is going to be speaking
in the evening at the speaker's conference.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
They're going to have a.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
SkyWatch one of the nights, I think Sunday night, and
some other events. So definitely go to their website. I
think it's all posted. It's it's fun.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
You're doing an alien makeup demo.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Oh excellent.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
But yeah, I think Carbondale kind of fits into like
a lot of these small towns with these encounters and
the typical cover up and the lack of answers and
poor excuses.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh, definitely something you know. And again, whether it's military, alien,
you know, natural medior people see something, they see it
in the sky, they see it hit in the woods,
in a pond, whatever, there's some sort of debris, some

(35:21):
sort of object, it's something. And then they're told you
saw nothing, it was nothing, and that's that's an insult
to witnesses. And then that's going to make your imagination
run wild.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Oh they're trying to cover up. It must be, you
know something.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Then you can have all sorts of wild interpretations of that.
If it's you know, Kechsburg, if it was a Soviet
satellite or some sort of other space debris, you know,
that was nineteen sixty five.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I don't think it's classified tech anymore. Just come out
and say it, right, And.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Even if at that time had said, well, we recovered
some space debris, but it's classified, we can't talk about it. Right,
it's space debris, it's man made. If they didn't want
to disclose it with Soviet or whatever. Is it really
that hard just to give enough information that explains what

(36:28):
people saw, and you know, factual information, not this you
didn't see anything. What are you talking about? That light
like that, mass misattribution or whatever. So it's the vagueness
and the insulting approach is what leads to so much

(36:49):
of the conspiracy theories, so much of the misinformation. I
don't know if it's done intentionally by the powers that
be or if it's just a byproduct of their attempts
to sort of make this all go away.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I'll go as intentional. I'll take intentional for one hundred.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Alex all right, Yeah, I have from what we've seen, definitely.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yes, it's just a pattern it. You know, it just
goes on and on.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
In small communities, it's easy to intimidate people or you know,
you've got a massive military governmental body against a small
town who's going to win, right, And it seems to.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Me like the government, if you really wanted to do
a better job, could instead of a lantern, If that's
what you're excusing. No, I think recovering a small piece
of meteorite would be a better idea. I'm sure the
government's got little chunks of meteorite they can bring with
them and sort of plant like, oh, hey, we found it.
Look yeah, yeah, right, wow, we're going to take it

(37:58):
back and study it. And but no, we're going to
just say you didn't see anything except for an old
railroad lantern that was rusty and.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Probably didn't Yeah, we need to somebody I hope has
done that test. Get that, you know, there's pictures of
the lantern. Get that model lantern. Put fresh batteries in it,
even though this one was a rusty, you know thing.
Get a you know, fresh batteries. Toss it in the

(38:28):
lake about the area where they found the other one,
and how much does it does it? Can you take
a picture of the lake at night with that lantern
and does it match the photographs that the newspaper reporter took.
I'm sorry my being rational here.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, we're I think it's a good something we should
look at. I like that, so you could get replicated
even all these years later.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Or does it instantly? Does the light just go out
the minute the battery hits the water?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
I would think that it's uh not going to work underwater.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I'm sure it's water resisting like for rain maybe, but not.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
It's not no for hours and hours. I wouldn't. I
wouldn't think so, but that's.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
What I have to agree to. So any closing thoughts, uh, No, go.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
To a UFO festival, whether it's Kexburg, Carbondale or Pine Bush.
If you enjoy this, you meet people of uh you
know who have great stories. There's always great street food too,
you know, you know, bring your kids, they might get
interested in UFOs or they just might have fun, you

(39:44):
know with plastic aliens. But yeah, it's you never know
who you're going to meet or what stories you're going
to here and again thanks to the law enforcement officers,
great report. This is why we do what we do
to get reports like that, so anyone else. As you've

(40:09):
seen over the years, we don't give out names unless
you want us to.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
So we just want the data, We want the stories.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, and can you just before we close, give us
the name of your new Civil War book.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
It is called A Civil War Soldier and Me and
it Hopefully by the time you're listening to this, it's
available on Amazon, but it's already available on Barnes and Noble,
and I will have copies, hopefully if the mail system
gets them to me in time for the UFO fair.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
So here's a question, now, this is a very serious question.
Would you rather be abducted by aliens? Or index of Books?

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
My god, take me now, take me now, indexing? Oh
you and I both know it is hell. Yes, it
is hell.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
I no, no, I'm still having nightmares four days of we'll, we'll,
I'll have to tell you the whole story.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Oh yeah, but yes, okay, I would take the abduction
as well.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yes, yep, yep, yep, drill a hole through my skull.
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
It's less painful, all.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Right, Well, listen. I want to thank everybody for joining us.
We really do appreciate your support. If you're a long
time listener, we do appreciate you, you know, taking the
time join us on our podcast. If you're new, go
back and binge listen because there's a lot of great
episodes a lot of great information out there, and if

(42:02):
you're listening, in your story you have something to tell listen,
please get it out to us. We'd love to hear
from people. Even if you don't have a UFO experience,
we still love to hear from our viewers or our listeners.
They should say, whoever you are in the world, send
us a letter, send us a note to say hi,
and think you're listening. Until next time, keep your eyes

(42:23):
on the sky.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.