Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Kathleen Martin.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You're listening to UFO Headquarters. And thank you Kathleen Martin,
good friend of our show and a wonderful, wonderful person
for bringing us in there with Linda Zimmermann. And case
(00:23):
you didn't know, you're listening to UFO Headquarters. And I
am reluctantly here today back in the USA from Finland,
sad to report. I wanted to stay, but I was
overridden by the wife and child.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So here I am. Go back, Mike, go back.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, maybe next year.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You need a summer place there.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I do, I do, So that's that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So let's start a GoFundMe. So everybody please send Mike
your spare change and we'll try to get him a
place there so he can be happy.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Especially you know somewhere in the Lake region where the
mosquitoes are are really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, every every nice place comes with a price, yes,
and the little red biting ants, but oh not special.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I could put up with that, I think. Okay, I
think I'll learn to live with it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
All right, Well we have completely digressed already.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Man, that happens. But we have a we have a
pretty fun show because occasionally Linda likes to put together
some stuff in never not tell me, just to see
how I react to it. And I like those shows
because I like going in blind and hearing the information
essentially just as our listeners are hearing it. So I
(01:47):
kind of like that it's almost putting myself in the
shoes of our audience. So I'm looking forward to this
one because I never know what's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
No, no one ever knows what's coming. Bob tells me
that every day, I never know what you're up to.
So before we get to our episode of Muhammad Ali
and the Octogenarian, which I believe no UFO podcast has
ever been titled before, I do have a case that
(02:19):
someone contacted me and said, would you have an interest
in a nineteen seventy five case, which sounded fabulous. I
said absolutely, so he sent back I could paraphrase, but
it was so well written that I'm just going to
read a couple of pages here. We will call him
Joe because he's still active in some organizations and there is,
(02:44):
unfortunately still a stigma. So this is anonymous Joe nineteen
seventy five. I was twenty four years old that mid
November night The overall experience from start to finish lasted
about fifteen minutes. A friend and I were driving from
(03:05):
New Canaan, Connecticut via Route one twenty three through Vista,
New York, then on to West Lane to Ridgefield, Connecticut.
At about seven forty five pm. We were on a
fairly long stretch of west Lane. At about the halfway point,
we saw a cluster of green lights about a quarter
(03:29):
of a mile ahead on the right, seemingly just above
tree top level. We thought the pilot seemed to be
running a little low, especially at night, but presumed the
pilot was headed to Danbury Airport. Shortly thereafter, the group
of lights split into two groups, one crossing over to
(03:51):
the left side of the road, and the remainder still
headed off toward Danbury and out of our line of sight. Meanwhile,
back on the left side of the road there was
a lot of woods. The lights had formed into a
line of three or four green lights that moved back
(04:11):
and forth, closer and farther to us, as if working
a grid pattern, with the line of lights not changing
its point of direction, as if a helicopter was moving
forward and back. At this point we became shall I say,
(04:31):
intrigued by what we were seeing, but not ready to commit.
I stopped the car, turned off the engine, and we
got out of the car. We heard no sounds, got
back in the car. The thing that we were seeing
now went off in the direction of Ridgefield, exactly where
(04:52):
we were headed. West Lane. Came up to a t
intersection where we turned right, still on track with it,
and still on west Lane. Soon after, the road goes
down into a small valley. The terrain rises to a
ridge line off to the left side of the road.
(05:15):
It is at this point that we were able to
see the silhouette of a teacup and saucer shaped object
lying just above the ridge line. We came up on
the other side of the little valley and into an
s turn, and we and the craft have now converged
at the closest point. We are just barely out of
(05:38):
the turn when I pulled over, stopped the car, turned
off the engine, and we exited the car. The craft
is now hovering over the backyard of a house across
the street. Through a bay window, we can see mom, dad,
and two kids having coffee and conversation. Meanwhile, while this
(06:00):
thing is silently hovering over their backyard. It's less than
two hundred feet away and probably no more than two
hundred feet in the air. My buddy said, turn on
your hazard lights. I hit the switch and the lights
started to flash. In response, the craft moved in a
(06:24):
little closer and started to flash a bank of white
lights around its rim. Frankly, we did not know whether
to defecate or lose our eyesight, which just might be
one of the best lines in all of ufology cases. Yeah,
(06:45):
so a little unnerving there, But let me get back.
So what did we see? A tea cup and saucer
configuration about sixty feet in diameter, about thirty to thirty
five feet from its undercarria to the top of its
pointy tip. It had a black circle on the underside
(07:07):
that appeared to be the same diameter as the base
of the superstructure. The rest of the underside looked like
brushed aluminum or brushed steel. There was a row of
lights around the rim. I seemed to think I recollect
opaic windows, but I'm not one hundred percent sure on that.
(07:29):
After standing there, stunned, I turned off my flashers. The
craft ceased flashing its lights at us, moved back over
the backyard, and then started to well drift slowly back
toward Route one twenty three, southerly back toward Vista as
(07:50):
it disappeared over the trees. Remember that other bunch of
lights that was headed toward Danbury, Let's not forget them.
As the first craft was moving out of sight, a
second one appeared, following in the wake of its companion.
This one was of the same configuration, same black center,
(08:13):
but with a brushed copper finish and about two thirds
the size of the first one. And then they were
gone when we got to the meeting. That was the
reason for our being out in the first place. We
were like a couple of gibbering idiots, and we took
a fair amount of guff for it. What have you
(08:33):
been smoking? Nothing? What have you been drinking nothing? I
was still pretty fried from this when I got home.
My wife had a hard time believing me at first.
I do have a lively imagination, and I'm adept at
making up stuff and being convincing about it. But fortunately
I only use my powers for good. But when I
(08:55):
told her that throughout this whole thing, there was not
a sound other than the occasional sighing of the breeze
through the leafless trees. The next day, I called Danbury Airport,
nothing on radar. I called the Lewisborough and Ridgefield Police,
nothing reported. I called the Ridgefield Newspaper. Nothing reported, But
(09:19):
would you like to come up and talk to us
about your experience? Which we did. By then a few
days had passed and I began to doubt myself, but
I got over that. I still see them in my
mind's eye. How could I not? And I guess that's
how we got here. Also, I contacted Muffon and filled
(09:39):
out of a form, and there's an epilogue. I've always
considered myself to be kind of hip from his years
as a musician, a little street wise, not prone to scams,
but acknowledge a certain naivete. So about six months after
(09:59):
the story appeared in the Ridgefield Paper, I get a
call from a guy purporting to be from the National Inquirer.
He's seen the story and wants to talk to me
about it. He came to interview me where I worked.
I gave him chapter in verse, even made a sketch
for him. I confess to being surprised to hear from him.
(10:24):
We see what we saw seemed tame kind of stuff
for what the National Inquirer prints. Anyway, there never was
any printed Inquirer story. Finally, after about thirty years, it
dawned on me, this guy was not from the National Inquirer,
probably some Alphabet agency looking to see what I had
(10:47):
or hadn't seen. So so thanks again for contacting me
about this. Anything else you want to ask or know,
contact me. If not, just keep looking up I do.
What do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
First of all, what a great detailed description and explanation,
and the moment he started describing the National Inquirer thing,
first thing that popped in my head was that's not
a reporter. That's definitely not a reporter. And it just
seemed to me, you know, and I know that they're sensationalist,
(11:25):
and but you know, to have them come and never
run this story, not even to you know, if it
was really their reporters, I'm sure they would have added
a lot to it, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
They would have, right, and they had a sketch. I mean,
it certainly would have filled up about half a page.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, And I mean I used to love reading the
National Inquirer for all those those goofy things like that
they printed and you never knew what was real, you know.
But yeah, well government agency. I mean that's a great cover. Though,
Hey from the NOWER more likely more likely to talk
to that guy than Hey, I'm from uh, you know,
(12:06):
the US Langley. Yeah, I'm a I'm in a dark
suit from a very important secret agency and I can't
tell you about it. But would you like to talk
to me? You don't have much of a choice here,
you know. So a great cover, great way to get info.
And yeah, I'd like to know who that who that
(12:26):
person was and what did they do with that information?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, but to see not one but two craft and
he did an I you know, of course I came
back with all kinds of questions and one of them,
could you do with sketch? And he did a great
uh rendering, and I was I was glad he did
because I was a little confused by the tea cup
and saucer. Imagine it's more of more of if you
(12:52):
took a tea cup and turned it upside down on
a saucer. So it was a saucer with a superstructure
with windows around it. And then, which was a great observation,
this black circle on the bottom of each craft. He
even noted it was the same diameter as the superstructure.
(13:13):
I mean, it was terrific. And then when you know
we've we did that show, be careful what you ask
for people signaling UFOs with lights, he puts on his
hazard lights. This thing moves closer and starts flashing its lights. Yeah,
I would be a little anxious at that point.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah. That the beginning of his of his story too,
talking about the way it was moving in a grid pattern.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
The cop and meat goes to, you know, grid searching.
Was it looking for something? Was it intentionally following a
grid pattern for a reason? Like was it something they
were looking for or someone someone was there a you know,
that sounds very purpose driven versus just sort of moving
(14:02):
around in the air, like, you know, describing as grid.
That just hit me like, okay, that to me implies
that they're looking for something. They're searching for something here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, So I did come back, obviously with a bunch
of questions. I was hoping maybe his friend would want
to talk. But he doesn't remember the same amount of detail,
but of course he remembers it. And one of the
things I said, you know, we hear this all the time.
People have a sighting and then they never talk about
(14:34):
it for like ten twenty thirty years. So I said,
did you talk about it or did you stop talking
about it? And he replied it was hard for it
not to be a regular topic of conversation for quite
some time. While we don't talk about it much anymore,
every November it comes up, especially with it coming up
(14:56):
on fifty years next year. So this is right, fifty
years later, and you know, here's like a new case essentially,
you know, bringing this, bringing this case. And I asked,
did it change him in some way? Some people become fearful,
(15:16):
some people become more open creative? He said, the only
change it made in my life is that it confirmed
for me what I had already been open to. It
didn't make me fearful. It left me stunned, but not fearful.
My wife and I discussed whether it made me more creative.
(15:36):
My creative outlets have always been varied theater, music, art writing, humor,
broad imagination, and a willing and this is my favorite line,
and a willingness to entertain the possibility of impossible things.
So yeah, I'd say it made an impression.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, on him. That's a life life changing events as
it we hear from a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Consistently, and this was direct communication. He puts on his hazard,
it reacts, he turns them off, it stops flashing in back.
So I mean that is conscious direct communication, right, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Love there's intelligence behind.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It, right, And I love where he says, I can
see through the picture window, there's the you know, there's
the family sitting there talking, and there's basically you know,
you could just hear it in his mind, there's this
freaking UFO out of your house. How do you not
know this? But it was silent, and why should they
know it was there?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Right right? Unless they look out the window there. Yeah. Great,
I'm gonna start looking at my windows a bit more.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I need a big skylight so I can always have
my eyes to the sky. So thank you, Joe. That
was one of my favorite case descriptions. So well done,
and thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That was just excellently written and just we're really really
appreciative that you shared it with us and felt comfortable
enough to share it with us.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That's yeah, And people people still contact me. I know
you've finished writing your books. Well, we'll see about that.
But you know, are you still interested in collecting cases? Oh? Hell, yes, yeah,
I just want to hear more and more so, so yes.
(17:38):
So why don't we take our first break before we
get to the rest of our episode Hudson River Radio
dot com.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Your mom likes us, and we're back after that short break,
and Linda, before we move on to the meat and
potatoes of today, Just to sort of touch upon Joe's story,
any of our listeners out there that want to share
(18:14):
their story, please feel free. And if you want, you know,
your identity protected, you want anonymity, spit that word out
that is respected one hundred and million percent, So you know,
if you feel comfortable enough to share your story but
don't want your name out there, whatever your request is,
we're going to honor it. But we know there's stories
(18:36):
out there that people haven't shared and we would love
to hear them. Now's the time get it out there,
because other people may have had similar experiences around the
same exact time, in the same exact area as you,
and maybe like, wait a minute, I was I was
on that road on that that time and remember something
(18:56):
like that, So please feel free get them out there,
get those stories out there. And you know, if it's
your name, you're worried about where confidentiality is everything? So yeah,
press that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And there's been quite a lot of sightings around Ridgefield
and dan Berry, I mean, and Innora, especially in the eighties.
But I love this seventy five and even earlier one.
And you know, as soon as I read this, I
went to Google Maps and he was very specific. You
can trace that road, you can drive that road, and
I know there's a lot of people like me who
(19:32):
like to actually drive the path or walk the path
of so you really help you get an idea of
the sighting area. So yes, please, everyone keep sending, keep
those cards and letters coming, as they used to say.
All right, so let's get to our meat and potatoes,
(19:52):
as Mike says, first of all, where we're going to
do the Mohammed al Li story. Now, I need to know,
Mike and Brian, what is your level of boxing knowledge
before I continue this anything.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, I know who Muhammad Ali is and I got
like my socks knocked off in the police academy boxing. Okay, same.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
That same with you, okay, Okay, Well I might as
well digress right away before I get into this. I
used to Boxing used to be a much bigger things
as Bruella as it was, you know, two men standing
there knocking each other senseless. In the seventies, eighties, nineties,
I think it was a lot more popular. And my
(20:44):
dad had been a boxer in the Marine Corps because
just being a regular marine isn't tough, and you know
that doesn't make you tough enough. You've got to be
a boxer in the Marine Corps. So as a little kid,
I remember he had a punching bag set a couple
of bags set up, and as a little kid, I'd
put on his big punching gloves, boxing gloves, and I
(21:08):
was probably the only little kid in kindergarten who knew
to protect myself with my left hand and come up
with a devastating right hook, which probably didn't get me
too far in class, but I was ready. I was ready.
So yeah, and Muhammad Ali, he just transcended the sport.
I found him to be obnoxious, but a lot of
(21:31):
people liked him. He just talked and talked and talked
and bragged, and you know, he was a showman, so
it was hard to take him seriously with anything. But
in this case he was serious about UFOs and he
had a number of sightings, and one of them was
(21:52):
in Central Park in New York City. He used to
do when he was training. He'd go jog in Central
Park at like four or five in the morning, and
which wasn't the safest plate not safe now but in
the seventies. But yeah, I pity the fool who tried
to mug Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, that's almost like every time he went out, like please.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Please, Yeah, yeah, he was that person would get knocked
to Brooklyn. So I'll just read his statement. I happened
to look up just before dawn, as I often do
while running, and there, hovering above us was this brilliant
light hanging as if by an invisible thread. Where have
(22:42):
we heard that so many times? At first I thought
it was a beacon projected from a helicopter, but moments
later a similar object passed in front of us. I
brought it to the attention of my trainer, who was
standing nearby. We watched them come from behind the skyline
(23:03):
and move slowly across the sky for at least fifteen minutes.
The best I can describe the sighting is to say
they were just round and big. This is no joke.
All of my friends here saw it. Actually, I've seen
them many times before. I've had sixteen sightings total to date,
(23:27):
many times in the early morning hours. If you look
up in the sky, you can see them playing tag
between the stars, really high up. I've had a good
number of sightings myself. The closest one happened when a
cigar shaped ship hovered briefly over a car. I was
(23:47):
a passenger in one night, driving north on the New
Jersey Turnpike. What a sight it was. We could see
the shadow made by the UFO as it passed over
the pavement of the road in the light of the
full moon. What an amazing image that is a UFO
(24:08):
casting a shadow in moonlight. Before I could blink my eyes,
this light had come down toward the mountains until it
hovered right above the valley. Here. I knew I couldn't
be dreaming. Sure enough, it was still there. This had
to be one of those big ships they talked about.
The UFO was streamlined and shaped sort of like a cigar,
(24:32):
but blunt on both ends. I couldn't see any windows
or anything, but I'm certain there must have been people
on board. That's a great account. This is so unalie
like no exaggeration. What he is serious about this subject.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I have seen the video clips of him, you know,
hyping up fights and like you said, he was a
showman and and a fantastic boxer. I don't know much
about it, but watching them boxes just I mean amazing.
So yeah, yeah, hearing this compared to his normal you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Know, float like a butterfly and sting like a.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
This is this is almost like another person, yes, different,
a different person here.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, this is the serious guy. So if you want
to see him talking about this, there's go to YouTube.
Put in Muhammad Ali Johnny Carson UFO And in seventy
three he was on Johnny Carson with Ken Norton. I
don't know if you've heard of Ken Norton, fabulous boxer.
(25:45):
They I've pinned down the date because on the show
they say that Norton won the first fight, which I
think was March of seventy three. He actually broke Ali's jaw,
splintered it and the fight continued round after it. Can
you imagine having a broken jaw and the force of
(26:06):
those punches, We'd all be hospitalized or dead. So this
was right before the second fight September of seventy three,
which Ali won by a split decision. I mean, I'm
just going to tell you this because you know, if
I'm talking about it, I'll give you all the information.
(26:28):
And then in seventy six they met for the third
time and Ali won by unanimous decision, which was one
of the biggest scandals. I mean, I defy anybody to
watch that fight and say that Ali won. In fact,
Ali even said I honestly thought he beat me. It
(26:51):
was but politics. Ali was hugely popular. It was moreation
advantageous to the boxing association to have Ali be the
world champion. So a great injustice. But anyway, so he
comes on. Ken Norton's already on the set and they're
in their bathrobes and slippers, you know, like their fight.
(27:17):
It's like a couple days before the fight, and so
Johnny Carson's expecting we're going to talk fights, and Ali
sits down and he says, Tolly, we look serious. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And He's like, I've been studying UFOs. You know that
there are UFOs out there flying around unidentified objects. Well
you should hear the audience bursts out laughing, this is
so funny to them, and he's not. He is serious,
and he says, I'm serious. He said they've been seeing
(27:56):
a bunch over Georgia. I've seen them at night. And
so he said he had photos, he had films, people
have sentim, had sent him stuff. And he's like, why
isn't anyone talking about it? Why isn't the government doing anything?
Fifty years ago? The same story we have all this.
(28:16):
So Johnny Carson says, well, come on, you know, why
haven't they landed, Why haven't they made contact? And Allie says,
they probably think they can get no sense out of
the people here. So bravo, perfect answer. And Carson said, well,
(28:37):
why should anybody, How could anybody believe? He said, anybody
who's got eyes should believe. So good for him, you know, now.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'm sorry, I was just going to say, and that
be on Johnny Carson, one of the you know, the
pre eminent shows to get on right before a fight
with your opponent, where you have the opportunity to be
the showman that you want to be. Exactly to focus
on Ufoss, there's to me that bolsters that credibility.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, of Cordy do that. Yeah, of course, skeptics say
he did get punched in the head for a living,
but he was You have to see his demeanor. He
he was serious. And you know you're out, Uh well
you cops should know. You're out at all hours of
the night. You see things, not meaning they're all, you know,
(29:35):
alien spacecraft, but there's strange things going on in the sky.
And uh, you know, between what he saw in Central
Park and then on the Jersey Turnpike, like you said,
you have eyes, you'll believe.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So I wonder what became of the photos and stuff
that he had that people were sending there.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I don't know, I know, I hope.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Is there a repository of his papers or a collection
somewhere like so many you.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Know, that's an awfully good question. That is an awfully
good question. If we have anybody in the audience who
has any connection to Muhammad Ali's family, yeah question, yeah, yeah,
let's see what we can we can find. But yeah,
you know, somebody, like you said, of his caliber, this
(30:31):
was his moment to do his clown routine and hype
up the fight and all at and he sits down
and says, Look, I'm serious, I'm talking UFOs. Carson's like, oh, great,
great fight talk we're having here.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well, because you can imagine that the show Carson wanted, right,
you know, the the excitement, the audience was obviously waiting
for it. That's why they're laughing at the beginning. So
for him to deliver something completely opposite.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, yeah, and he made quite a few other other statements,
but yeah, I love to follow up on that if
anybody has any connections. So that is our Mohammad Ali portion,
and we will get to the octagenarian part after this
short break. This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We are back and it has to be the I
don't know that I've ever heard anyone talk about Mohammad Ali,
and before I did not hear. I didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
This is okay, good.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I love them shows that I'm hearing this story as
you're telling it, just like everybody else is that I'm
sitting here in my mind, it's just like, well, first
of all, who would call him a liar to his face? Yeah,
you have to be stupid, But again, it doesn't sound like, yes,
(32:12):
he's a showman, but he had a particular style. Again,
I've seen the videos of him, you know, hyping and
dancing around, and especially before fights.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And in the middle of fights. In the one of
the Norton fights, in the middle he's making faces and
the crowds chanting alley and he's clowning to the crowd
in the middle of a fight. It's so yeah, So
this was so out of character. This was the real Ali,
not the showman Ali talking right.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
That's that. That's kind of what I was trying to
get to is that the person that was talking on
Johnny Carson and talking about this was the real the
real man behind who was Muhammad?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Al Right, right, Okay, so let us get on to
I may have mentioned some of this on some other shows.
You know how many years we've been doing this show,
but I know I haven't read done the whole episode.
So many years ago, I was in Oh boy, howd
(33:15):
to be? Over ten years ago, I was giving a
talk somewhere in Connecticut, one of the I've estimated roughly
I've done a thousand lectures across the country, so I
don't remember the exact location of all of them. So
one of these thousand lectures. I was in Connecticut and
(33:35):
this woman named Joan eighty four years old. She comes
to the talk and she hands me an envelope and
she says, this is this is my story, these are
my sightings, and I want you to have this. And
I'm like fabulous. So what I you know, I was
(33:57):
very excited to see. I had no idea what I
was going to read. And I was stunned. We have
talked about the nineteen fifty two flap over Washington, d C.
She saw it. She was there an eye witness. I
spoke with an eyewitness, Okay, to the fifty two flap
(34:18):
over d C.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Which is I did not know that. Yeah, you had
spoken to an eyewitness.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, So she said that at the time, she was
a retired school teacher. When I met her, she was
going to college at Fredericksburg, Virginia, which we were both
familiar with. She said one evening she and her friends
were driving to Washington, d C. Not far from there,
and quote, many many UFOs were dancing all over the
(34:50):
DC skies and what's one of the main skeptics things, Oh,
they were it was just radar anomaly, temperature and version. No,
they She and her friends physically saw lighted craft, as
she described dancing over the skies of DC. So all
(35:11):
you skeptics suck on that, am I allowed to say that.
I am so tired of skeptics telling people what they
didn't see when they know damn well what they did see.
So I just love that, And she said that. Years later,
(35:31):
she read about the incident over the Capitol. She said,
but what never seems to be mentioned in the sighting
and the sightings reports is that UFOs were seen throughout
Virginia in the Washington, DC area that night. So it
wasn't just over the Capitol. It was all throughout the area.
(35:52):
And she knows because she was there. So what a
great way to start your you know.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Absolutely So.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Then, in the summer of nineteen sixty three, she and
her family are at their beach house in Fairfield, Connecticut.
She says, I was sleeping on the second floor porch,
which was closed in, and was awakened by a metallic
sounding hum. I looked into the sky and saw a
(36:25):
very bright object spinning. The lights were more white than yellow,
but it was definitely not the moon. It was too
close to me. I looked up police reports. The next
day nothing. The next night, about three am, I was
again awakened, but this time there was no hum. I
(36:49):
felt forced to look straight ahead and saw the same
object far far away. I stared at him and was
shocked it appeared so far away. Then it zoomed out
into distant space within two or three seconds. I was
(37:09):
then convinced it was a UFO because it was within
It was a spot within two or three seconds. This
is tremendous and what's the key word there? She felt
forced to look. How many times do we hear? I
was oddly compelled for some reason. I felt I had
(37:32):
to go outside. Yes, yeah, so, she says. I was
in my early thirties at the time, and I told
my parents and the brother and my brother they listened,
but that was all. So basically didn't believe her, which
is frustrating. You know, she's thirty year old school teacher.
(37:55):
I think she knows what she's she's seeing, so she's However, However,
events would happen to both my parents years later that
made them believers. In the early nineteen eighties at their
home in Fairfield, my mother was in the garden fall
(38:17):
weeding and it was getting dark. She came in breathless
and frightened and said, Jony, I now believe you. A
flying saucer came over the treetops, stopped and flew away.
So Joni was shocked and obviously delighted, because you know,
(38:38):
don't you love it? Do you just live for the
moment when skeptics see something that scare the crap out
of them, and then they become the biggest advocates for UFOs.
I don't care what anybody says. I saw it and
you should believe it too. Yeah, so that's not the
(38:59):
end of the store. Her mother described the craft as
a cigar shape with blinking multi colored lights. It moved
very slowly and silently and was very low. As remarkable
as it was for her mother to admit what she
had seen, the very next night, her adamantly stubborn father
(39:23):
was to have the shock of his life. Oh bring
it on, My serious minded father came in hurting, as
he had been so shocked by what he had seen
he had fallen backwards into the rose bushes. Karma's a bitch,
isn't it. He was scared, white as a ghost, and
(39:48):
spoke very little about the UFO that had just come
over the backyard. He went into the bathroom. When he
came out, I questioned him, but he said he would
never ever talk about it, and he was frightened. I
respected my parents and never brought up this subject again.
(40:13):
What a shame.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
And you know what I'm thinking here is what are
the what if these are the sightings? She remembers, because
how often have we heard that when people have a sighting,
all of a sudden, it seems they start to either recall,
wait a minute, I had this, or it becomes the
first of many sightings. And the same thing with the
(40:39):
parents is that generational aspect that we see a lot
of where the parents finally admit, yeah, you know, I
used to see things. Maybe they were hiding it, repressing it,
and oh it happens all the time, didn't want to
confront it. And then of course Mom's in the garden
pulling weeds, and and whatever happened to dad to have
(41:04):
two different, you know, three different, very different reactions to
similar I mean, we don't know what Dad saw, but
three different people reacting to encounters with UFOs reacting very differently,
in the father's experience being something we can assume was
terrifying to him.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, because he absolutely did not believe in this. Obviously
it was he was stubborn, It didn't exist, and suddenly
it's hovering over your head. Well, yes, fall back in
the rose bushes and deal with it. But it was
actually in the paper the next day. There were articles
(41:45):
in the Bridgeport Post speaking about the cigar shaped ufo
with twinkling colored lights in the Trumble, Connecticut area, and
it was exactly as her mother had described it. So
you'd think the father would say, all right, my wife
saw it. A whole bunch of other people saw it.
I can talk about it. But yeah, we don't know.
(42:07):
We don't know what that was. But wait, we're not
finished with this octagenarian who had sightings spanning over sixty years.
So it was around twenty twelve. She's in her eighties
at this point. She was visiting her nephew in Washington
(42:28):
State and they had been out for the day. They're
headed home between nine and eleven PM near Lake Washington
in the Bellevue Redmond area. I don't know Washington at all,
do either of you?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
No?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Okay, she said, when again, here we go. Something made
her look out the passenger window again, this silent compulsion
to do something some thought put in her mind. She
said that she looked through the passenger window back into
(43:05):
her right in an unnatural position, so she had to
twist and contort. She said, there was one extremely brilliant
low light following the car. It was low and slow,
and there was no noise at all. It could not
be a plane or a helicopter. I told my nephew,
(43:28):
and he believed me and said, this only happens to
you so well, and her parents and her friends and
everything else. So but she had as if this wasn't
the most wonderful collection of recollections in her life, she
(43:50):
had one more little surprise for me. She said that
the family house where she grew up was haunted because
how many times again high strangeness they get, strangeness of
all kinds. She said. It wasn't until her she knew
it because she was seeing But it wasn't until her
(44:12):
father passed away that her mother confirmed that she had
also seen ghosts in the house. I guess the father
didn't want anybody to talk about it, which is something
so remarkable and unnerving, and you need it would be
nice to be able to talk to it with family
members and confirm you're all experiencing the same thing. It
(44:35):
would have been helpful. But yeah, so high strangeness manifesting
in many different ways to people who have life long encounters.
And she finished up her written account with, so here,
I am telling you my history totally true. All that
I wrote is one hundred percent true. And there's no
(44:56):
way I could be untrue to myself and lie. And
that is She would be about ninety two now. I
don't know if she is still with us, but thank
you Joan for that tremendous This account is in my
(45:16):
Hudson Valley UFO's Best Evidence book if you want to
read the whole account. But wow, and that she took
the time. I don't know how far she had to drive,
but she took the time to write all that out
and at eighty four years old, drove who knows how
long to find me to give this to me. So
(45:38):
now I can share it with everybody, and these experiences
are not lost. They're now part of the record.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And it's so great that she did because she could
have never had written it down, never passed it on,
and she could have taken all this with her if
she you know, is in fact gone. So now that
that's preserved, that she had the encounters that her famili's had,
I mean, yeah, great to be able to talk to
(46:06):
her and tease more information out.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Oh I know, I know, but just to you know,
if you don't know ufology, this isn't a big deal.
But to us to talk to someone who saw the
fifty two that is one of the prime cases that
is on the pantheon, you know, the probably the the
(46:29):
Mount rushmore of UFO case than to talk to someone
who confirmed there were many of them all over the
sky and all over the area. It's just, well, that's
why we do what we do, because people like this
come along and make our UFO day.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yes, and she really checked a lot of boxes with
the yeah, the encounters and then of course the hauntings
growing up, which just they go hand in hand sometimes, so.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, lots of times and all kinds of strange things.
So so good for her. You know, clearly it was
something that they didn't want to talk about in the family,
but she grew out of that and realized this was
too important to to not share. So there we have it.
(47:24):
Anything else, Mike.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
No, I think I think that was a lot for today.
I think we really we hit it, you know, from
different angles. But and I think it gives our listeners
something to walk away from and look at, especially the
I know, I'm going to go watch the Muhammad Ali
footage from Carson mm hmmm. Because the best way to
to you know, ascertain anybody's truthfulness is to watch them,
(47:51):
to look at their face, facial expressions, their demeanor, and
how they conduct themselves. And you know, I want to
see that for myself, and you know, I want to
hear that audience reaction change from laughter to oh this
guy serious? And again I wish I'm going to do
a little digging. Maybe we can find out if maybe
(48:13):
his his pace, you know, personal papers collection we're donated
to a library somewhere or university. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, that is a great idea. I didn't I didn't
think of that.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Maybe buried in a box somewhere in an archive, or
his photographs or notations. Wouldn't be great to get your
hands on those.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Oh oh, anybody has any idea, please please let us
know so.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
We will be we will be making a road trip
if there are.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, and speaking of road trips, if you're anywhere in
the Ridgefield, Connecticut area, you know, listen to this episode
again and write down the path of the and you
can trace that path of you know that those two
guys went on in seventy five, and who knows, maybe
you'll see something here for what you wish for, right, Yeah,
(49:06):
just don't flash your lights at it, please please, unless
you like getting scared.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
All right, So, I guess we'll just remind everybody that
if you are new to our channel here UFO Headquarters,
we encourage you to go back and binge listen to
the many many years worth of awesome, awesome podcasts and
the wealth of information that are contained in them. If
you have been with us for whether it's one episode
(49:37):
or a million, now really thank you and appreciate that
you listen to us. You take the time out of
your schedule to listen to our podcast. We really appreciate
it because if it wasn't for people listening, we wouldn't
be doing this program and we wouldn't be bringing this
information to you. So a big shout out to everybody
out there who takes the time to listen to us.
(50:00):
Hey listen, if you like our show, tell a friend,
Tell a family member, put the podcast on at work,
and encourage everybody else to aren't listening to it, whatever
it is, you know, spread the word because we need
to continue to get that information out there and spread
the word about the phenomenon going on right over our heads.
(50:21):
So until next time, keep your eyes on the sky.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Puts in rear radio dot com a favorite among shut
ins and dogs.
This is Kathleen Martin.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
You're listening to UFO Headquarters. And thank you Kathleen Martin,
good friend of our show and a wonderful, wonderful person
for bringing us in there with Linda Zimmermann. And case
(00:23):
you didn't know, you're listening to UFO Headquarters. And I
am reluctantly here today back in the USA from Finland,
sad to report. I wanted to stay, but I was
overridden by the wife and child.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So here I am. Go back, Mike, go back.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, maybe next year.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You need a summer place there.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I do, I do, So that's that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So let's start a GoFundMe. So everybody please send Mike
your spare change and we'll try to get him a
place there so he can be happy.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Especially you know somewhere in the Lake region where the
mosquitoes are are really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, every every nice place comes with a price, yes,
and the little red biting ants, but oh not special.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I could put up with that, I think. Okay, I
think I'll learn to live with it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
All right, Well we have completely digressed already.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Man, that happens. But we have a we have a
pretty fun show because occasionally Linda likes to put together
some stuff in never not tell me, just to see
how I react to it. And I like those shows
because I like going in blind and hearing the information
essentially just as our listeners are hearing it. So I
(01:47):
kind of like that it's almost putting myself in the
shoes of our audience. So I'm looking forward to this
one because I never know what's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
No, no one ever knows what's coming. Bob tells me
that every day, I never know what you're up to.
So before we get to our episode of Muhammad Ali
and the Octogenarian, which I believe no UFO podcast has
ever been titled before, I do have a case that
(02:19):
someone contacted me and said, would you have an interest
in a nineteen seventy five case, which sounded fabulous. I
said absolutely, so he sent back I could paraphrase, but
it was so well written that I'm just going to
read a couple of pages here. We will call him
Joe because he's still active in some organizations and there is,
(02:44):
unfortunately still a stigma. So this is anonymous Joe nineteen
seventy five. I was twenty four years old that mid
November night The overall experience from start to finish lasted
about fifteen minutes. A friend and I were driving from
(03:05):
New Canaan, Connecticut via Route one twenty three through Vista,
New York, then on to West Lane to Ridgefield, Connecticut.
At about seven forty five pm. We were on a
fairly long stretch of west Lane. At about the halfway point,
we saw a cluster of green lights about a quarter
(03:29):
of a mile ahead on the right, seemingly just above
tree top level. We thought the pilot seemed to be
running a little low, especially at night, but presumed the
pilot was headed to Danbury Airport. Shortly thereafter, the group
of lights split into two groups, one crossing over to
(03:51):
the left side of the road, and the remainder still
headed off toward Danbury and out of our line of sight. Meanwhile,
back on the left side of the road there was
a lot of woods. The lights had formed into a
line of three or four green lights that moved back
(04:11):
and forth, closer and farther to us, as if working
a grid pattern, with the line of lights not changing
its point of direction, as if a helicopter was moving
forward and back. At this point we became shall I say,
(04:31):
intrigued by what we were seeing, but not ready to commit.
I stopped the car, turned off the engine, and we
got out of the car. We heard no sounds, got
back in the car. The thing that we were seeing
now went off in the direction of Ridgefield, exactly where
(04:52):
we were headed. West Lane. Came up to a t
intersection where we turned right, still on track with it,
and still on west Lane. Soon after, the road goes
down into a small valley. The terrain rises to a
ridge line off to the left side of the road.
(05:15):
It is at this point that we were able to
see the silhouette of a teacup and saucer shaped object
lying just above the ridge line. We came up on
the other side of the little valley and into an
s turn, and we and the craft have now converged
at the closest point. We are just barely out of
(05:38):
the turn when I pulled over, stopped the car, turned
off the engine, and we exited the car. The craft
is now hovering over the backyard of a house across
the street. Through a bay window, we can see mom, dad,
and two kids having coffee and conversation. Meanwhile, while this
(06:00):
thing is silently hovering over their backyard. It's less than
two hundred feet away and probably no more than two
hundred feet in the air. My buddy said, turn on
your hazard lights. I hit the switch and the lights
started to flash. In response, the craft moved in a
(06:24):
little closer and started to flash a bank of white
lights around its rim. Frankly, we did not know whether
to defecate or lose our eyesight, which just might be
one of the best lines in all of ufology cases. Yeah,
(06:45):
so a little unnerving there, But let me get back.
So what did we see? A tea cup and saucer
configuration about sixty feet in diameter, about thirty to thirty
five feet from its undercarria to the top of its
pointy tip. It had a black circle on the underside
(07:07):
that appeared to be the same diameter as the base
of the superstructure. The rest of the underside looked like
brushed aluminum or brushed steel. There was a row of
lights around the rim. I seemed to think I recollect
opaic windows, but I'm not one hundred percent sure on that.
(07:29):
After standing there, stunned, I turned off my flashers. The
craft ceased flashing its lights at us, moved back over
the backyard, and then started to well drift slowly back
toward Route one twenty three, southerly back toward Vista as
(07:50):
it disappeared over the trees. Remember that other bunch of
lights that was headed toward Danbury, Let's not forget them.
As the first craft was moving out of sight, a
second one appeared, following in the wake of its companion.
This one was of the same configuration, same black center,
(08:13):
but with a brushed copper finish and about two thirds
the size of the first one. And then they were
gone when we got to the meeting. That was the
reason for our being out in the first place. We
were like a couple of gibbering idiots, and we took
a fair amount of guff for it. What have you
(08:33):
been smoking? Nothing? What have you been drinking nothing? I
was still pretty fried from this when I got home.
My wife had a hard time believing me at first.
I do have a lively imagination, and I'm adept at
making up stuff and being convincing about it. But fortunately
I only use my powers for good. But when I
(08:55):
told her that throughout this whole thing, there was not
a sound other than the occasional sighing of the breeze
through the leafless trees. The next day, I called Danbury Airport,
nothing on radar. I called the Lewisborough and Ridgefield Police,
nothing reported. I called the Ridgefield Newspaper. Nothing reported, But
(09:19):
would you like to come up and talk to us
about your experience? Which we did. By then a few
days had passed and I began to doubt myself, but
I got over that. I still see them in my
mind's eye. How could I not? And I guess that's
how we got here. Also, I contacted Muffon and filled
(09:39):
out of a form, and there's an epilogue. I've always
considered myself to be kind of hip from his years
as a musician, a little street wise, not prone to scams,
but acknowledge a certain naivete. So about six months after
(09:59):
the story appeared in the Ridgefield Paper, I get a
call from a guy purporting to be from the National Inquirer.
He's seen the story and wants to talk to me
about it. He came to interview me where I worked.
I gave him chapter in verse, even made a sketch
for him. I confess to being surprised to hear from him.
(10:24):
We see what we saw seemed tame kind of stuff
for what the National Inquirer prints. Anyway, there never was
any printed Inquirer story. Finally, after about thirty years, it
dawned on me, this guy was not from the National Inquirer,
probably some Alphabet agency looking to see what I had
(10:47):
or hadn't seen. So so thanks again for contacting me
about this. Anything else you want to ask or know,
contact me. If not, just keep looking up I do.
What do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
First of all, what a great detailed description and explanation,
and the moment he started describing the National Inquirer thing,
first thing that popped in my head was that's not
a reporter. That's definitely not a reporter. And it just
seemed to me, you know, and I know that they're sensationalist,
(11:25):
and but you know, to have them come and never
run this story, not even to you know, if it
was really their reporters, I'm sure they would have added
a lot to it, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
They would have, right, and they had a sketch. I mean,
it certainly would have filled up about half a page.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, And I mean I used to love reading the
National Inquirer for all those those goofy things like that
they printed and you never knew what was real, you know.
But yeah, well government agency. I mean that's a great cover. Though,
Hey from the NOWER more likely more likely to talk
to that guy than Hey, I'm from uh, you know,
(12:06):
the US Langley. Yeah, I'm a I'm in a dark
suit from a very important secret agency and I can't
tell you about it. But would you like to talk
to me? You don't have much of a choice here,
you know. So a great cover, great way to get info.
And yeah, I'd like to know who that who that
(12:26):
person was and what did they do with that information?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, but to see not one but two craft and
he did an I you know, of course I came
back with all kinds of questions and one of them,
could you do with sketch? And he did a great
uh rendering, and I was I was glad he did
because I was a little confused by the tea cup
and saucer. Imagine it's more of more of if you
(12:52):
took a tea cup and turned it upside down on
a saucer. So it was a saucer with a superstructure
with windows around it. And then, which was a great observation,
this black circle on the bottom of each craft. He
even noted it was the same diameter as the superstructure.
(13:13):
I mean, it was terrific. And then when you know
we've we did that show, be careful what you ask
for people signaling UFOs with lights, he puts on his
hazard lights. This thing moves closer and starts flashing its lights. Yeah,
I would be a little anxious at that point.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah. That the beginning of his of his story too,
talking about the way it was moving in a grid pattern.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
The cop and meat goes to, you know, grid searching.
Was it looking for something? Was it intentionally following a
grid pattern for a reason? Like was it something they
were looking for or someone someone was there a you know,
that sounds very purpose driven versus just sort of moving
(14:02):
around in the air, like, you know, describing as grid.
That just hit me like, okay, that to me implies
that they're looking for something. They're searching for something here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, So I did come back, obviously with a bunch
of questions. I was hoping maybe his friend would want
to talk. But he doesn't remember the same amount of detail,
but of course he remembers it. And one of the
things I said, you know, we hear this all the time.
People have a sighting and then they never talk about
(14:34):
it for like ten twenty thirty years. So I said,
did you talk about it or did you stop talking
about it? And he replied it was hard for it
not to be a regular topic of conversation for quite
some time. While we don't talk about it much anymore,
every November it comes up, especially with it coming up
(14:56):
on fifty years next year. So this is right, fifty
years later, and you know, here's like a new case essentially,
you know, bringing this, bringing this case. And I asked,
did it change him in some way? Some people become fearful,
(15:16):
some people become more open creative? He said, the only
change it made in my life is that it confirmed
for me what I had already been open to. It
didn't make me fearful. It left me stunned, but not fearful.
My wife and I discussed whether it made me more creative.
(15:36):
My creative outlets have always been varied theater, music, art writing, humor,
broad imagination, and a willing and this is my favorite line,
and a willingness to entertain the possibility of impossible things.
So yeah, I'd say it made an impression.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, on him. That's a life life changing events as
it we hear from a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Consistently, and this was direct communication. He puts on his hazard,
it reacts, he turns them off, it stops flashing in back.
So I mean that is conscious direct communication, right, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Love there's intelligence behind.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It, right, And I love where he says, I can
see through the picture window, there's the you know, there's
the family sitting there talking, and there's basically you know,
you could just hear it in his mind, there's this
freaking UFO out of your house. How do you not
know this? But it was silent, and why should they
know it was there?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Right right? Unless they look out the window there. Yeah. Great,
I'm gonna start looking at my windows a bit more.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I need a big skylight so I can always have
my eyes to the sky. So thank you, Joe. That
was one of my favorite case descriptions. So well done,
and thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That was just excellently written and just we're really really
appreciative that you shared it with us and felt comfortable
enough to share it with us.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That's yeah, And people people still contact me. I know
you've finished writing your books. Well, we'll see about that.
But you know, are you still interested in collecting cases? Oh? Hell, yes, yeah,
I just want to hear more and more so, so yes.
(17:38):
So why don't we take our first break before we
get to the rest of our episode Hudson River Radio
dot com.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Your mom likes us, and we're back after that short break,
and Linda, before we move on to the meat and
potatoes of today, Just to sort of touch upon Joe's story,
any of our listeners out there that want to share
(18:14):
their story, please feel free. And if you want, you know,
your identity protected, you want anonymity, spit that word out
that is respected one hundred and million percent, So you know,
if you feel comfortable enough to share your story but
don't want your name out there, whatever your request is,
we're going to honor it. But we know there's stories
(18:36):
out there that people haven't shared and we would love
to hear them. Now's the time get it out there,
because other people may have had similar experiences around the
same exact time, in the same exact area as you,
and maybe like, wait a minute, I was I was
on that road on that that time and remember something
(18:56):
like that, So please feel free get them out there,
get those stories out there. And you know, if it's
your name, you're worried about where confidentiality is everything? So yeah,
press that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And there's been quite a lot of sightings around Ridgefield
and dan Berry, I mean, and Innora, especially in the eighties.
But I love this seventy five and even earlier one.
And you know, as soon as I read this, I
went to Google Maps and he was very specific. You
can trace that road, you can drive that road, and
I know there's a lot of people like me who
(19:32):
like to actually drive the path or walk the path
of so you really help you get an idea of
the sighting area. So yes, please, everyone keep sending, keep
those cards and letters coming, as they used to say.
All right, so let's get to our meat and potatoes,
(19:52):
as Mike says, first of all, where we're going to
do the Mohammed al Li story. Now, I need to know,
Mike and Brian, what is your level of boxing knowledge
before I continue this anything.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, I know who Muhammad Ali is and I got
like my socks knocked off in the police academy boxing. Okay, same.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
That same with you, okay, Okay, Well I might as
well digress right away before I get into this. I
used to Boxing used to be a much bigger things
as Bruella as it was, you know, two men standing
there knocking each other senseless. In the seventies, eighties, nineties,
I think it was a lot more popular. And my
(20:44):
dad had been a boxer in the Marine Corps because
just being a regular marine isn't tough, and you know
that doesn't make you tough enough. You've got to be
a boxer in the Marine Corps. So as a little kid,
I remember he had a punching bag set a couple
of bags set up, and as a little kid, I'd
put on his big punching gloves, boxing gloves, and I
(21:08):
was probably the only little kid in kindergarten who knew
to protect myself with my left hand and come up
with a devastating right hook, which probably didn't get me
too far in class, but I was ready. I was ready.
So yeah, and Muhammad Ali, he just transcended the sport.
I found him to be obnoxious, but a lot of
(21:31):
people liked him. He just talked and talked and talked
and bragged, and you know, he was a showman, so
it was hard to take him seriously with anything. But
in this case he was serious about UFOs and he
had a number of sightings, and one of them was
(21:52):
in Central Park in New York City. He used to
do when he was training. He'd go jog in Central
Park at like four or five in the morning, and
which wasn't the safest plate not safe now but in
the seventies. But yeah, I pity the fool who tried
to mug Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, that's almost like every time he went out, like please.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Please, Yeah, yeah, he was that person would get knocked
to Brooklyn. So I'll just read his statement. I happened
to look up just before dawn, as I often do
while running, and there, hovering above us was this brilliant
light hanging as if by an invisible thread. Where have
(22:42):
we heard that so many times? At first I thought
it was a beacon projected from a helicopter, but moments
later a similar object passed in front of us. I
brought it to the attention of my trainer, who was
standing nearby. We watched them come from behind the skyline
(23:03):
and move slowly across the sky for at least fifteen minutes.
The best I can describe the sighting is to say
they were just round and big. This is no joke.
All of my friends here saw it. Actually, I've seen
them many times before. I've had sixteen sightings total to date,
(23:27):
many times in the early morning hours. If you look
up in the sky, you can see them playing tag
between the stars, really high up. I've had a good
number of sightings myself. The closest one happened when a
cigar shaped ship hovered briefly over a car. I was
(23:47):
a passenger in one night, driving north on the New
Jersey Turnpike. What a sight it was. We could see
the shadow made by the UFO as it passed over
the pavement of the road in the light of the
full moon. What an amazing image that is a UFO
(24:08):
casting a shadow in moonlight. Before I could blink my eyes,
this light had come down toward the mountains until it
hovered right above the valley. Here. I knew I couldn't
be dreaming. Sure enough, it was still there. This had
to be one of those big ships they talked about.
The UFO was streamlined and shaped sort of like a cigar,
(24:32):
but blunt on both ends. I couldn't see any windows
or anything, but I'm certain there must have been people
on board. That's a great account. This is so unalie
like no exaggeration. What he is serious about this subject.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I have seen the video clips of him, you know,
hyping up fights and like you said, he was a
showman and and a fantastic boxer. I don't know much
about it, but watching them boxes just I mean amazing.
So yeah, yeah, hearing this compared to his normal you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Know, float like a butterfly and sting like a.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
This is this is almost like another person, yes, different,
a different person here.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, this is the serious guy. So if you want
to see him talking about this, there's go to YouTube.
Put in Muhammad Ali Johnny Carson UFO And in seventy
three he was on Johnny Carson with Ken Norton. I
don't know if you've heard of Ken Norton, fabulous boxer.
(25:45):
They I've pinned down the date because on the show
they say that Norton won the first fight, which I
think was March of seventy three. He actually broke Ali's jaw,
splintered it and the fight continued round after it. Can
you imagine having a broken jaw and the force of
(26:06):
those punches, We'd all be hospitalized or dead. So this
was right before the second fight September of seventy three,
which Ali won by a split decision. I mean, I'm
just going to tell you this because you know, if
I'm talking about it, I'll give you all the information.
(26:28):
And then in seventy six they met for the third
time and Ali won by unanimous decision, which was one
of the biggest scandals. I mean, I defy anybody to
watch that fight and say that Ali won. In fact,
Ali even said I honestly thought he beat me. It
(26:51):
was but politics. Ali was hugely popular. It was moreation
advantageous to the boxing association to have Ali be the
world champion. So a great injustice. But anyway, so he
comes on. Ken Norton's already on the set and they're
in their bathrobes and slippers, you know, like their fight.
(27:17):
It's like a couple days before the fight, and so
Johnny Carson's expecting we're going to talk fights, and Ali
sits down and he says, Tolly, we look serious. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And He's like, I've been studying UFOs. You know that
there are UFOs out there flying around unidentified objects. Well
you should hear the audience bursts out laughing, this is
so funny to them, and he's not. He is serious,
and he says, I'm serious. He said they've been seeing
(27:56):
a bunch over Georgia. I've seen them at night. And
so he said he had photos, he had films, people
have sentim, had sent him stuff. And he's like, why
isn't anyone talking about it? Why isn't the government doing anything?
Fifty years ago? The same story we have all this.
(28:16):
So Johnny Carson says, well, come on, you know, why
haven't they landed, Why haven't they made contact? And Allie says,
they probably think they can get no sense out of
the people here. So bravo, perfect answer. And Carson said, well,
(28:37):
why should anybody, How could anybody believe? He said, anybody
who's got eyes should believe. So good for him, you know, now.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'm sorry, I was just going to say, and that
be on Johnny Carson, one of the you know, the
pre eminent shows to get on right before a fight
with your opponent, where you have the opportunity to be
the showman that you want to be. Exactly to focus
on Ufoss, there's to me that bolsters that credibility.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, of Cordy do that. Yeah, of course, skeptics say
he did get punched in the head for a living,
but he was You have to see his demeanor. He
he was serious. And you know you're out, Uh well
you cops should know. You're out at all hours of
the night. You see things, not meaning they're all, you know,
(29:35):
alien spacecraft, but there's strange things going on in the sky.
And uh, you know, between what he saw in Central
Park and then on the Jersey Turnpike, like you said,
you have eyes, you'll believe.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So I wonder what became of the photos and stuff
that he had that people were sending there.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I don't know, I know, I hope.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Is there a repository of his papers or a collection
somewhere like so many you.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Know, that's an awfully good question. That is an awfully
good question. If we have anybody in the audience who
has any connection to Muhammad Ali's family, yeah question, yeah, yeah,
let's see what we can we can find. But yeah,
you know, somebody, like you said, of his caliber, this
(30:31):
was his moment to do his clown routine and hype
up the fight and all at and he sits down
and says, Look, I'm serious, I'm talking UFOs. Carson's like, oh, great,
great fight talk we're having here.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well, because you can imagine that the show Carson wanted, right,
you know, the the excitement, the audience was obviously waiting
for it. That's why they're laughing at the beginning. So
for him to deliver something completely opposite.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, yeah, and he made quite a few other other statements,
but yeah, I love to follow up on that if
anybody has any connections. So that is our Mohammad Ali portion,
and we will get to the octagenarian part after this
short break. This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We are back and it has to be the I
don't know that I've ever heard anyone talk about Mohammad Ali,
and before I did not hear. I didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
This is okay, good.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I love them shows that I'm hearing this story as
you're telling it, just like everybody else is that I'm
sitting here in my mind, it's just like, well, first
of all, who would call him a liar to his face? Yeah,
you have to be stupid, But again, it doesn't sound like, yes,
(32:12):
he's a showman, but he had a particular style. Again,
I've seen the videos of him, you know, hyping and
dancing around, and especially before fights.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And in the middle of fights. In the one of
the Norton fights, in the middle he's making faces and
the crowds chanting alley and he's clowning to the crowd
in the middle of a fight. It's so yeah, So
this was so out of character. This was the real Ali,
not the showman Ali talking right.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
That's that. That's kind of what I was trying to
get to is that the person that was talking on
Johnny Carson and talking about this was the real the
real man behind who was Muhammad?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Al Right, right, Okay, so let us get on to
I may have mentioned some of this on some other shows.
You know how many years we've been doing this show,
but I know I haven't read done the whole episode.
So many years ago, I was in Oh boy, howd
(33:15):
to be? Over ten years ago, I was giving a
talk somewhere in Connecticut, one of the I've estimated roughly
I've done a thousand lectures across the country, so I
don't remember the exact location of all of them. So
one of these thousand lectures. I was in Connecticut and
(33:35):
this woman named Joan eighty four years old. She comes
to the talk and she hands me an envelope and
she says, this is this is my story, these are
my sightings, and I want you to have this. And
I'm like fabulous. So what I you know, I was
(33:57):
very excited to see. I had no idea what I
was going to read. And I was stunned. We have
talked about the nineteen fifty two flap over Washington, d C.
She saw it. She was there an eye witness. I
spoke with an eyewitness, Okay, to the fifty two flap
(34:18):
over d C.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Which is I did not know that. Yeah, you had
spoken to an eyewitness.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, So she said that at the time, she was
a retired school teacher. When I met her, she was
going to college at Fredericksburg, Virginia, which we were both
familiar with. She said one evening she and her friends
were driving to Washington, d C. Not far from there,
and quote, many many UFOs were dancing all over the
(34:50):
DC skies and what's one of the main skeptics things, Oh,
they were it was just radar anomaly, temperature and version. No,
they She and her friends physically saw lighted craft, as
she described dancing over the skies of DC. So all
(35:11):
you skeptics suck on that, am I allowed to say that.
I am so tired of skeptics telling people what they
didn't see when they know damn well what they did see.
So I just love that, And she said that. Years later,
(35:31):
she read about the incident over the Capitol. She said,
but what never seems to be mentioned in the sighting
and the sightings reports is that UFOs were seen throughout
Virginia in the Washington, DC area that night. So it
wasn't just over the Capitol. It was all throughout the area.
(35:52):
And she knows because she was there. So what a
great way to start your you know.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Absolutely So.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Then, in the summer of nineteen sixty three, she and
her family are at their beach house in Fairfield, Connecticut.
She says, I was sleeping on the second floor porch,
which was closed in, and was awakened by a metallic
sounding hum. I looked into the sky and saw a
(36:25):
very bright object spinning. The lights were more white than yellow,
but it was definitely not the moon. It was too
close to me. I looked up police reports. The next
day nothing. The next night, about three am, I was
again awakened, but this time there was no hum. I
(36:49):
felt forced to look straight ahead and saw the same
object far far away. I stared at him and was
shocked it appeared so far away. Then it zoomed out
into distant space within two or three seconds. I was
(37:09):
then convinced it was a UFO because it was within
It was a spot within two or three seconds. This
is tremendous and what's the key word there? She felt
forced to look. How many times do we hear? I
was oddly compelled for some reason. I felt I had
(37:32):
to go outside. Yes, yeah, so, she says. I was
in my early thirties at the time, and I told
my parents and the brother and my brother they listened,
but that was all. So basically didn't believe her, which
is frustrating. You know, she's thirty year old school teacher.
(37:55):
I think she knows what she's she's seeing, so she's However, However,
events would happen to both my parents years later that
made them believers. In the early nineteen eighties at their
home in Fairfield, my mother was in the garden fall
(38:17):
weeding and it was getting dark. She came in breathless
and frightened and said, Jony, I now believe you. A
flying saucer came over the treetops, stopped and flew away.
So Joni was shocked and obviously delighted, because you know,
(38:38):
don't you love it? Do you just live for the
moment when skeptics see something that scare the crap out
of them, and then they become the biggest advocates for UFOs.
I don't care what anybody says. I saw it and
you should believe it too. Yeah, so that's not the
(38:59):
end of the store. Her mother described the craft as
a cigar shape with blinking multi colored lights. It moved
very slowly and silently and was very low. As remarkable
as it was for her mother to admit what she
had seen, the very next night, her adamantly stubborn father
(39:23):
was to have the shock of his life. Oh bring
it on, My serious minded father came in hurting, as
he had been so shocked by what he had seen
he had fallen backwards into the rose bushes. Karma's a bitch,
isn't it. He was scared, white as a ghost, and
(39:48):
spoke very little about the UFO that had just come
over the backyard. He went into the bathroom. When he
came out, I questioned him, but he said he would
never ever talk about it, and he was frightened. I
respected my parents and never brought up this subject again.
(40:13):
What a shame.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
And you know what I'm thinking here is what are
the what if these are the sightings? She remembers, because
how often have we heard that when people have a sighting,
all of a sudden, it seems they start to either recall,
wait a minute, I had this, or it becomes the
first of many sightings. And the same thing with the
(40:39):
parents is that generational aspect that we see a lot
of where the parents finally admit, yeah, you know, I
used to see things. Maybe they were hiding it, repressing it,
and oh it happens all the time, didn't want to
confront it. And then of course Mom's in the garden
pulling weeds, and and whatever happened to dad to have
(41:04):
two different, you know, three different, very different reactions to
similar I mean, we don't know what Dad saw, but
three different people reacting to encounters with UFOs reacting very differently,
in the father's experience being something we can assume was
terrifying to him.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, because he absolutely did not believe in this. Obviously
it was he was stubborn, It didn't exist, and suddenly
it's hovering over your head. Well, yes, fall back in
the rose bushes and deal with it. But it was
actually in the paper the next day. There were articles
(41:45):
in the Bridgeport Post speaking about the cigar shaped ufo
with twinkling colored lights in the Trumble, Connecticut area, and
it was exactly as her mother had described it. So
you'd think the father would say, all right, my wife
saw it. A whole bunch of other people saw it.
I can talk about it. But yeah, we don't know.
(42:07):
We don't know what that was. But wait, we're not
finished with this octagenarian who had sightings spanning over sixty years.
So it was around twenty twelve. She's in her eighties
at this point. She was visiting her nephew in Washington
(42:28):
State and they had been out for the day. They're
headed home between nine and eleven PM near Lake Washington
in the Bellevue Redmond area. I don't know Washington at all,
do either of you?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
No?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Okay, she said, when again, here we go. Something made
her look out the passenger window again, this silent compulsion
to do something some thought put in her mind. She
said that she looked through the passenger window back into
(43:05):
her right in an unnatural position, so she had to
twist and contort. She said, there was one extremely brilliant
low light following the car. It was low and slow,
and there was no noise at all. It could not
be a plane or a helicopter. I told my nephew,
(43:28):
and he believed me and said, this only happens to
you so well, and her parents and her friends and
everything else. So but she had as if this wasn't
the most wonderful collection of recollections in her life, she
(43:50):
had one more little surprise for me. She said that
the family house where she grew up was haunted because
how many times again high strangeness they get, strangeness of
all kinds. She said. It wasn't until her she knew
it because she was seeing But it wasn't until her
(44:12):
father passed away that her mother confirmed that she had
also seen ghosts in the house. I guess the father
didn't want anybody to talk about it, which is something
so remarkable and unnerving, and you need it would be
nice to be able to talk to it with family
members and confirm you're all experiencing the same thing. It
(44:35):
would have been helpful. But yeah, so high strangeness manifesting
in many different ways to people who have life long encounters.
And she finished up her written account with, so here,
I am telling you my history totally true. All that
I wrote is one hundred percent true. And there's no
(44:56):
way I could be untrue to myself and lie. And
that is She would be about ninety two now. I
don't know if she is still with us, but thank
you Joan for that tremendous This account is in my
(45:16):
Hudson Valley UFO's Best Evidence book if you want to
read the whole account. But wow, and that she took
the time. I don't know how far she had to drive,
but she took the time to write all that out
and at eighty four years old, drove who knows how
long to find me to give this to me. So
(45:38):
now I can share it with everybody, and these experiences
are not lost. They're now part of the record.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And it's so great that she did because she could
have never had written it down, never passed it on,
and she could have taken all this with her if
she you know, is in fact gone. So now that
that's preserved, that she had the encounters that her famili's had,
I mean, yeah, great to be able to talk to
(46:06):
her and tease more information out.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Oh I know, I know, but just to you know,
if you don't know ufology, this isn't a big deal.
But to us to talk to someone who saw the
fifty two that is one of the prime cases that
is on the pantheon, you know, the probably the the
(46:29):
Mount rushmore of UFO case than to talk to someone
who confirmed there were many of them all over the
sky and all over the area. It's just, well, that's
why we do what we do, because people like this
come along and make our UFO day.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yes, and she really checked a lot of boxes with
the yeah, the encounters and then of course the hauntings
growing up, which just they go hand in hand sometimes, so.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, lots of times and all kinds of strange things.
So so good for her. You know, clearly it was
something that they didn't want to talk about in the family,
but she grew out of that and realized this was
too important to to not share. So there we have it.
(47:24):
Anything else, Mike.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
No, I think I think that was a lot for today.
I think we really we hit it, you know, from
different angles. But and I think it gives our listeners
something to walk away from and look at, especially the
I know, I'm going to go watch the Muhammad Ali
footage from Carson mm hmmm. Because the best way to
to you know, ascertain anybody's truthfulness is to watch them,
(47:51):
to look at their face, facial expressions, their demeanor, and
how they conduct themselves. And you know, I want to
see that for myself, and you know, I want to
hear that audience reaction change from laughter to oh this
guy serious? And again I wish I'm going to do
a little digging. Maybe we can find out if maybe
(48:13):
his his pace, you know, personal papers collection we're donated
to a library somewhere or university. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, that is a great idea. I didn't I didn't
think of that.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Maybe buried in a box somewhere in an archive, or
his photographs or notations. Wouldn't be great to get your
hands on those.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Oh oh, anybody has any idea, please please let us
know so.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
We will be we will be making a road trip
if there are.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, and speaking of road trips, if you're anywhere in
the Ridgefield, Connecticut area, you know, listen to this episode
again and write down the path of the and you
can trace that path of you know that those two
guys went on in seventy five, and who knows, maybe
you'll see something here for what you wish for, right, Yeah,
(49:06):
just don't flash your lights at it, please please, unless
you like getting scared.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
All right, So, I guess we'll just remind everybody that
if you are new to our channel here UFO Headquarters,
we encourage you to go back and binge listen to
the many many years worth of awesome, awesome podcasts and
the wealth of information that are contained in them. If
you have been with us for whether it's one episode
(49:37):
or a million, now really thank you and appreciate that
you listen to us. You take the time out of
your schedule to listen to our podcast. We really appreciate
it because if it wasn't for people listening, we wouldn't
be doing this program and we wouldn't be bringing this
information to you. So a big shout out to everybody
out there who takes the time to listen to us.
(50:00):
Hey listen, if you like our show, tell a friend,
Tell a family member, put the podcast on at work,
and encourage everybody else to aren't listening to it, whatever
it is, you know, spread the word because we need
to continue to get that information out there and spread
the word about the phenomenon going on right over our heads.
(50:21):
So until next time, keep your eyes on the sky.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Puts in rear radio dot com a favorite among shut
ins and dogs.
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