Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO Headquarters.
Beautiful Headquarters, and a big thank you to Travis Walton
for that amazing intro. It never gets old no matter
how many times I hear it. And we have Linda
(00:30):
on here today, Mike Wardan and Linda Zimmerman with UFO Headquarters.
But we have a very very special return guest tonight, Linda.
And I'm excited because whenever he's on the show, it's
a great program.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh yes, the mysterious, the one and only mister Burns.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes, yes, thank you for having me on again.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And Mike, I appreciate it, Yes, mister yeah, Well it's
great because you're you know, you never cease to amaze me.
I'll I'll ask him a question or mention something. And
he has the encyclopedia of you know, the who wasn't where?
(01:10):
Of everything. So my hat is off to you and
your scholarship in this field.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, thank you. Hopefully one day I'll actually get to
apply to something. Right now, it's just taking up space.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Now, yeah, but you've you've collected it. It's there, yep.
And you do have the pine Bush archive.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, yep, yes, that so.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Back in the mid nineties, I got I traveled up
to Pine Bush to see if there was any truth
to the stories that I was hearing, and long story short,
there was definitely a firm reason to stick around and
to dig further. And I became a part of the community,
you know, chasing after literally literally chasing in those days
(01:58):
after the UFO phenomena. And it's been near and dear
to my heart. It's been an ongoing pursuit, an ongoing mystery.
I seem to change my overall opinion on things every
seven years, so I'm due, I think next year. But yeah,
there's still an absolute ton of work to do. But
(02:21):
what I've been doing is I've been I have been
doing firsthand interviews with people when I can.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I I have.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
If I look through my files, I have much more
than I think I do. And uh, they're still out there.
They're they're now scattered literally across the world. I found
a guy in China, So yeah, a lot of people
with a lot of stories, and you know, half of
me thinks that I haven't even you know, cracked the
(02:50):
majority of them. So uh, yeah, I just keep going
and little away at it.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Wow, so a lot of these files are online, number
of them really is the it's it's been interesting to
to gain the the confidence of the people who are
willing to share their stories.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It's it's uh so I have to kind of go
witness by witnesses to to how they want to be,
how they want their their story to be translated if
they do, or relayed if they do. It's been challenging.
So there's not a lot online right now. I I
will have the task when I have time, hopefully when
(03:36):
I finally retire, to go through everything and make something presentable,
you know, to to to throw out to the world
and see what they think.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Now, if someone has a pine Bush connected story, uh,
can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The website absolutely, the The website is pine Bush Anomaly
dot com. My email address is pb Mysteries at gmail
dot com.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, great, So if you are out there and you've
been hesitant, you know, and you're afraid to give up
your identity, don't worry. Nobody here is here too to
rat you out. We just want your story.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's a privilege to hear
the stories and the whole point of taking the stories
in is literally just to try to put two and
two together. In the long run, it's an unbelievable story.
It's it really has been a heck of an adventure
that I feel like I stumbled into. I feel, you know,
(04:40):
very fortunate. And and of course Pine Bush is kind
of like my my home away from home. Lots of
lots of good, warm feelings towards that area, so I
love traveling up there and learning more about it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And and things are still happening.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, shockingly they are. I a I know we've talked
about it a little bit this past calendar year, but
I have reason to think that there was a burst.
I shouldn't say it burst. There was a bump in
activity in twenty twenty three, like there was definitely something more.
It's something going on more than the past ten years,
(05:17):
let's say, which is interesting. And and in the the
usual spots too, which is is very interesting. So it's, uh, if.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You could just mention for people who aren't as familiar
we know the usual spots, what would you call the
usual spots in pine.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Bush, Oh, West Searsville and Montgomery Searsville close to it,
and Indian Springs Road, New Prospect. You know, these places
have a long history and they're still producing sightings.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So right along fifty two there by the cemetery.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Not so much by well there, yeah, not so much
by the cemetery lately, yes, okay, but definitely in the past.
And certainly I think if if some of the residents
of you know what I dubbed the Fairy Knoll, that
area between fifty two where beth bellel Is and West Searsville,
(06:22):
I am sure there are stories within those residents from
you know, six dicks decades back to present.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned Indian Springs. I get
a headache every time I go on that road. I'm serious,
That Indian Springs Road creeps the hell out of.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I am not ashamed to say it.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, it's an interesting area, and I'll tell the story
of how I was kind of introduced to that. And
this is not specifically Indian Springs Road. It's a little
I want to say, east of that, east northeast of that,
but it's close by. But a friend of mine during
the glory days of the group that met in the nineties,
(07:10):
starting in ninety three that still exists in form thanks
to Bill wyand he took me up there. There was
a family or there is a family that lives up
there that had repeat activity and they and they said
things were still going on. So he kind of took
me to the general area it is and he's like,
(07:31):
I want to show you something. So he he parks
the car and just turns off the light and it
was pitch black. I mean, you could not see definition
of anything in front of you. And I was like, wow,
like this is the perfect location for you know, odd
supernatural themed events to happen. But yeah, it's an interesting area, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, I've had some weird things happen. And uh and Mike,
ourfre wonderfully psychic friend Barbara, I told her she doesn't
live all that far from there, and I said, you
need to check this out and she was like, oh
my god, same thing. There's uh, there is something there
(08:19):
is bad juju there. I don't know how you know,
that's a highly technical term, I know, but yeah, so
if people are looking for something unusual, but just be prepared.
I don't know how people live there, and I'm not
even kidding. I couldn't. I couldn't live on that road.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, I have a question for mister Burns real quick. Yes,
and not to put you on the spot, but you
mentioned you you're collected all these you know, first hand accounts.
He's great eye in this accounts. And you also mentioned
that every seven years you're sort of own overall evaluation changes.
What where where are you at now looking at the
(09:00):
anomaly and what you think is going on?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Okay, So I'm now moving in the direction that UFO
is a misnomer, that that there is something generating phenomena
that that appears under a number of guyses for lack
of a better term. So the phrase I say is like,
(09:30):
I think the imagery is secondary. It's everything underneath the
main presentation of this phenomena that really matters. That gives
you a hint that it's you know, the same thing.
And I think the best presentation I've seen of that
there's a wonderful researcher by the name of Joshua Kutchin
(09:51):
I think is how you pronounced his last name. But
he and a guy Timothy Renner from Pennsylvania who researches
chestnut ridge, which is just like pine bush, only I
think considerably bigger. They wrote a couple of books called
Where the Footprint, Where the Footprints End, and it's bigfoot centered,
(10:15):
but they really dive into how the bigfoot imagery is
almost secondary. I know very little about bigfoot lore, and
now I'm kind of realizing, like, if I want to
understand the big picture, I need to delve into that
at some point. Yeah, it's super interesting. It was even
(10:38):
interesting to me to hear that bigfoot groups have a
category where, you know, they lump in reports that deal
with phenomena where there's actually not a creature sided there's
no visual sighting of any type of creature. It's all
the stuff underneath it, happening around it, little balls of light,
(10:59):
smell flashes of light, feelings of dread. I mean that's
straight out of heine Bush. It's straight out of Marley Woods,
which is associated with UFOs. I don't think so much
with Piedmont and Yakama, but the Metal Spot, which is
(11:19):
researched by Trey Hudson and Trey. It's funny hearing like
Trey also talk about the same thing where he's thinking
that there's one, for lack of a better word, intelligence
kind of producing all this phenomena that has different imagery
laid over it. So that's kind of where I'm going now,
but I'll even take it a little further. I'm kind
(11:40):
of going to the point where I don't even think
it's organic. So you know, when people talk about gin,
they're still describing something that they that the traditional belief
is that it's it was organically you know, these intelligence
was were organically made for Again, for lack of a
better word, I'm starting to head in the direction where
(12:00):
I think this is artificial in some way, shape or form,
just because of the absurdity of the imagery. The imagery
is very specific, it resonates with us, it's it's well
thought out, for lack of a better term, So right there.
You know, I guess now when we start talking about
the whistle blow or the big problem with whistleblower stories
for me is it's hard for me to imagine something
(12:24):
solid enough to crash and be collected. So I'm drifting
farther away from the traditional extraterrestrial hypothesis every year makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
No, That's that's very interesting because that's sort of the
direction I started going with after I visited the Mothman
Museum down in West Virginia. Yeah, and picked up a
bunch of John Kiell books and really started reading into
his you know, very similar theory that the secondary the
paranormal activity we perceive, whether it's a ghost foot UFOs
(13:01):
are really just the manifestation that we're capable of seeing.
But there's a he called them ultra terrestrials. But I
mean it's still I think I to me, it explains
a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, it's the biggest problem for me over the years,
and it took me a while to actually kind of
figure this out. What the problem is. It's always been
a thorn Tomie Side is just how the imagery is
just ridiculous, but it happens for all intentsive purposes. You know,
the hundreds of reports that we we've learned of and
(13:34):
we've spoken to people about, and we you know, everybody
on this h on the show, We've we've spoken to people.
It's it's there, it's an experience, it's part of the
human experience. But that doesn't nullify the fact that the
imagery is really kind of ridiculous. So yeah, that's the
thing that that that's always bothered me. And it's interesting,
(13:54):
you know, I hear that jockh Ohala is coming out
with a new book, and I've noticed A has been
peppering the word simulation in his most recent interviews, So
I'm hoping he kind of expands on that because I
kind of feel I don't want to, like wholeheartedly go
into the simulation camp, but I'm kind of interested in
(14:14):
hearing that viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, I like, so you're you know where you're at.
I really like because it for how long people have
been experiencing things like bigfoot, pick the Lockness Monster just
off the top of my head, you know, all these
paranormal phenomenon but yet no evidence of it. I mean, realistically,
if there really was a Bigfoot at some point, there
has to be physical evidence we would come across something,
(14:41):
and there isn't any. The Lockness Monster, no physical evidence whatsoever.
Science has kind of proven that, but yet people, reliably
reliable witnesses report this stuff. They all can't be lying.
So it kind of explains the lack of really hardcore
solid evidence because there wouldn't be physical evidence.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, agreed. In fact, breaching over to the whistleblower
that we'll be talking about, and just whistleblower claims in general. Oh,
I didn't look up the name. There's a famous case
and Valet wrote about it the most. I'm gonna mispronounce it,
you know what, I'm not going to make a full
(15:24):
of myself. I'm gonna look at on my Google.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But it don't we take our first break now and
then you can look that up and we will come
back to the whistleblower and the case we need to pronounce. Yes,
all right, so we will be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Excellent.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Hudson River Radio dot com Hudson River Radio dot Com,
subsidiary of Glacier Entertainment LLC, blasting the competition New York's
Hudson Valley.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So welcome back after our first break. And Linda mister Burns,
this is already a conversation that I am in I'm
in love with because you're you're speaking my language, like
you know, it's my love language here. But you know,
(16:20):
it's it's an interesting not all people agree with you
or I or or or anybody in this field. There's
there's a lot of different theories and we're all kind
of guessing, I guess or making our our best conclusions
on the evidence. But yes, I'm curious, I'm curious what
case you have here. I I'm not familiar with it.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It is a famous case, it's super well documented and
VALA's written about it for years. And it's killing me
because I'm not coming up with it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Why don't I mention the the Jacob Barber information if
you want to come up with the name or yeah,
so while you're looking that up, let me just so.
Recently it's been all all the rage, people pro and
(17:13):
against and flipping out over Ross coltheart who I think
does a fabulous job interviewing people, getting interviews other people
can't whether you agree with what his guests have to
say or not. On News Nation had the latest whistleblower,
Jacob Barber, who was with the US Air Force Mechanic
(17:38):
helicopter pilot expert marksmen, was with Special Operations, worked for
the DoD as a civilian as well, had NATO top
secret clearance. Three separate soldiers who worked with them corroborated,
so whatever you think of them, the men had as credentials.
(18:03):
And he just came right out and said it said,
you know, he wasn't eager to do this. It took
two years to convince him to come forward. He claimed
he worked on a special crash retrieval squad on what
he called the range where it was US government testing
(18:26):
exotic aircraft. And he said, you know, we saw kinds
of weird things. Something would crash, we'd have to pick
it up and bring it back to where it had
to go, you know, simple as that. But then there
were some times there were things in other places that
we're a little off, were a little different. And he claimed, well,
(18:51):
let me just say what he saw on this during
his time. He said, things come in and out of sight,
Things disappear for a moment and reappear. Things seemed to
move very quickly. Things change color, they change shape. He
talked about seeing things coming out of the ground, out
(19:14):
of a ridge, and immediately I thought of pine bush
because of things coming in and out of the ground.
And we'll get to some of what the other things
he thought he saw that weren't human made, he believed.
But mister, mister Burns, did you have a chance to
(19:37):
find that case?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I have not. I'm failing miserably, And I said you were.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Mister Encyclopedia, Well can you tell us about the case.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And then yes, it basically was it was a sighting
of I want to say, a disc shaped craft that
wobbled and emitted a substance that fell to the ground,
and it was a slag like substance. And the reason
I'm bringing this up is because I think like that
(20:13):
the point where physical evidence kind of morphs into UFO
mythology is how you describe that substance. I think in
in kind of you know, especially in the past what
seven years since the New York Times article, it's been
a lot of stories and rumors about parts being held
(20:34):
in warehouses and possibly by aerospace companies, and I wonder
if that's really referring to slag, because this slag that's
it's it's not the case that I'm thinking of which
it starts with it. It's like Ubuntu or something to
that effect. It's it's not the only one. There's been
(20:54):
a bunch of cases where slag has been emitted by
the phenomena, and you could speculate that it's a by
product of the phenomenon manifesting in our environment. Again just
pure speculation, but it has been tested. And what Valet
had been saying is that for years it was just
the price was the price in the availability of the
gear to do so was so prohibited that it was
(21:16):
only within the past ten years that this material was
able to be tested.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like the meta materials they talk about.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, so perfect. Yeah, that's that's another word that gets
used a lot, and I bet that it's referring to slag.
And I guess what's interesting about it deals with the
isotope or the isotopes rather Isotope is an audio company,
so uh so. Yeah, It's the reason I'm bringing that
up is because when you you know, I use the
(21:45):
term ufo mythology for the the whistleblower stories, and you know,
a lot of people would would be like, oh, you're
you're you're insinuating that they're not real. Not necessarily, you know,
UFOs are a folklore, but they could also be a
physical reality. It's not either or they have to exist,
you know, in that in that littal space.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So yeah, in the last episode, we did talk about
a case in Connecticut where they just said, oh, it's
a blue book case. It was just slag, but it
it was causing a weight change in material that was
sitting next to it. Oh wow, Yes, and it had
(22:29):
very unusual composition. But what causes a weight change in
something you know, sitting on the counter next to it.
So I think that was a very early case of
meta material or whatever you'd you'd want to say yeah
about it. But so you did watch Jacob Barber on
(22:49):
Ross coltheart.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I did. I saw the the forty minute one. Apparently
there is a three hour case. And as much as
I hate to say it because I really hate the
platform X, you know, X dot com and you know
what used to be called Twitter, is still just an
amazing resource of people from all walks of life commenting
(23:16):
on stories. So you know, when you're listening to the
Jacob Barber story, I'm not a military guy, I'm not
an aerospace guy, and kind of you know, critiquing what
he's saying, you really got to know that world again.
There there are some fantastic people with accounts on X.
(23:37):
Still they haven't moved over to Blue Sky. I hope
they do at some point. But the the touch person
is a guy that goes by the name of the
average Chris. You do a search for that name on
X you'll find his postings. He himself is US Air
Force veteran, and he has a community of people who
(24:02):
have worked in the Air Force and they So the
first thing they did is that a number of people
watched the full three hour show and figured out that
the forty minute admitted a lot of information that was
not shining very well on Barber's background. So basically, the
(24:23):
forty minute show made it seem like Barbara had more
credentials than he actually did. And again, if you just
do a search for average Chris on X you'll find
the posts that dig into this. There's a lot of them.
It's something the average person like myself would not know,
who had no military experience and whatnot. But the other
(24:46):
thing is is that it is a news nation. You know,
the blame is on news nation also for creative editing,
for lack of a better word, And I mean I've
saw that decades ago with stuff that you know that
Fox was putting out. I even saw one on pine
Bush that Fox did where it was very creatively edited
(25:06):
and made certain things seem likely that definitely were not.
So it's a case of that. You know, what news
channels are entertainment. They need eyeballs. But uh so, yeah,
it's it's one of those things where there's a lot
of questions about his experience. And then the video is
(25:28):
interesting because.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Do you want to describe the egg video.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, so it's from the perspective of the helicopter. It's
it's supposedly night vision. It's looking down the cable that
is got this, and we're assuming it's the same object,
this egg shaped craft. And somebody with military experience listened
to the sound of the helicopter on the video instead
(25:55):
it's Hueye. It's definitely a Huey rotor. It's very distinct.
He's like, I find it baffling that there's no movement
of grass or even you know, dirt below the uh,
you know, below the egg. Is that the rotors aren't
or they you know, the blades aren't kicking up any
debris or anything. He's like, I expect to see that.
(26:17):
So that's one question about it. The other question is,
and and somebody produced a bunch of videos showing in essence,
weather balloons, and there was very there was a lot
of similarity between him. Was it a you know, an
open shut case. Maybe not, but it was curious to
(26:37):
see the comparison with weather balloons. So I guess what
the take away from it is that it's it's one
of these stories and it's amazing in the age of
social media, how like within a week this just blows
up and it could be your second job to keep
up with with everything, right, It really is amazing. It's uh,
you know, well.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
That was not Barber's video. So, but he had the
story about seeing an egg and his job was they
you know, people on the ground I guess, strapped it
in and they carried it somewhere. But he also talked
about what he called eight gons, Yes, that they were
(27:19):
discs that from above looked like you know, eight sections,
and he talked about retrieving several of those. And then
the freaky one was where he felt overwhelmed with emotion.
I think this was the one that was in a crate.
He didn't even see what it was, but he had
(27:43):
tears in his eyes and felt this something communicating with him.
And you know, you don't have to believe a word
of what he's saying, but how many times have we
interviewed witnesses who said something suddenly swept over for me
and I felt like it was communicating with me. So
(28:05):
if he concocted this entire story, he really hit upon
some very curious things. Again about seeing craft coming out
of the ground, out of the side of a ridge.
That's pine bush all over with. So what I have
(28:27):
not seen the three hour. I watched the forty five minutes,
and you know that one about the in and out
of the ground, because that's you know, he talked about
trans medium and we usually refer to in and out
of the water, going through different mediums air water. Very
(28:48):
rarely do we talk about in and out of the ground. Yeah,
so you've had a little experience with that in pine Bush.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yes, yes, yes, I definitely saw in a mission of
light come out of a field probably between a quarter
mile and a half mile away. So yeah. And I
don't think the whole coming out of the ground thing
is hip pop culture the way say, the Hitchhiker effect
has because of the skin Walker show. So I always
(29:19):
kind of get a lump in my throat when some
aspect of you know, paranormal studies makes it into pop
culture the way that like the term EVP did when
ghost Hunters went on air, and the way ectoplasm did
when Ghostbusters was you know, in the theaters. So it's interesting.
It's like, I, yeah, I don't think the whole ground
(29:39):
based thing is out in pop culture. So when someone
mentions that it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It would have been a very Again, if he's making
it up, that would have been an unusual aspect to
make part of his story.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
But yeah, I've interviewed people who said they in pine
Bush felt the ground tremble and heard noises underneath, as
if construction was going on under there. There was the
woman on West Searsville in the late nineties, early two
thousands I can't recall who saw what she described as
(30:19):
like the rings of Saturn, some sort of energy that
swirled up out of the middle of West Searsville Road
and on the lawn next to her. She said it
looked like Fourth of July sparklers. So some sort of sparkling,
spitting energy coming up out of the ground. I mean,
(30:40):
what's up with that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, there's a long history of I mean, the whole
underground sound thing and the whole machinery underground. It seems
to be a constant in hotspots, which is super interesting.
I can tell you experienced that I have not, but
(31:02):
I know I think I want to say six cases
in the Pinebush area. Then he might kill me. I
think I think he experienced that. It was one of
the earliest things he experienced, and it would be in
his book. I want to say it was ninety three.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Do you want to explain that for people who do
not know Vinnie in this book?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So, my buddy Vinny Police, I will say that he
is probably the single person in the world who has
had more firsthand visual experiences with the phenomena than anybody.
He put in the hours he spent his twenties going
(31:44):
up to Pine Bush and chasing and when I when
I say chasing, I mean chasing, and so yeah. So
he wrote a book on it in Wow, two thousand
and three, called The Pine Bush Phenomena. We hope he
rephes at some point, but there are still copies on Amazon.
But I want to say that his experience with what
(32:06):
seemed to be underground sounds was in nineteen ninety three,
and it was one of the earliest experiences he had.
There were two other people on the road that we
know of, and it was it was still light out
and at the same I think he described the sounds
as like almost like a train passing underground, but there
(32:26):
were actually light phenomena at the time. He always references
Spielberg's close encounters when the orange colored UFOs are coming
through the clouds heading towards the young boy's house, and
he said it was kind of like that there were
just colored lights in the clouds. Again, I hope I'm
(32:50):
not confusing to report, so I'm sure I'll hear from
him if I if I did, and take my lumps.
But that's certainly not the only one I can think of.
When we were still at the VFW that we had
a guest. Uh yeah, it's someone who's who's known.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The Pine Bush meetings.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes, yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, the Pine Bush Meetings that
that are still going on. And a bunch went out
to I want to say West Yearsville afterwards and experienced
the same thing. They experienced what sounded like sounds coming
from underneath them, and I do remember them all saying
like it really freaked them out, Like this is a
(33:33):
group that has seen and experienced a lot, and that
was something that that unsettled them. There is a body
of reports from the Gunks. Actually, if you go north
of Pine Bush, there's a lot of stories of underground sounds.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's the Chuang Gunk Mountains thing, yep.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And uh so that's you know, it's it's it's part
of kind of the the lore in in the area.
But also I think there's a lot of reports in
Colorado of all places of underground sounds associated with UFO activity,
and to connect Colorado with Pine Bush. The most mysterious
(34:18):
character in pine Bush lore, whose first name is Dale,
sadly not with us anymore. She experienced that activity in
Colorado and then in pine Bush with Ellen Crystal. Ellen
Crystal also experienced blasts of air coming up from the
middle of nowhere when she was in fields.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
That I hadn't heard of coming out of the ground,
coming out.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Of the ground. And so so the way she and
Dale interpreted it is that something was building something underneath
that had connection to the UFO activity. And I gotta say,
I've never experienced the air coming out, but I experienced
(35:05):
three times twice on West Seers rail Road and once
in the old airport off of Albany Post or close
to Albany Post, like a small area where the temperature
was easily ten to fifteen degrees warmer, like you could
walk ten steps and be in and out of it,
(35:26):
and walk back and be in and out of it.
I've never experienced anything like that and outside of pine Bush,
And interestingly enough, I found a report from Australia, an
incredible researcher by the name of Keith Basterfield, who usually
is associated with government document stuff, but he researched a
place of repeat activity and experienced the same thing, this
(35:49):
really small area where the temperature was considerably I can't
remember whether it was warmer or cooler. But again he
said he would just walk through it and walk back
and walk through it. So when Ellen, you know, and
I read Ellen's account of the air coming up, you
know that resonated a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Keith Basterfield had a great collection of animal
reaction cases for my book. Yeah, good researcher. So all
in all, do you completely dismiss Jacob Barber? Do you
think some of it could be true? Where where do
you lend?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I'd say, I'm gonna lean back with a thing of
popcorn and kind of see how it's kind of like
the best way to approach all this. You know, it's
it's interesting a guy everybody knows, John Greenwald, who has
hosted The Black Vault. It's funny. He I always praised
(36:54):
his research, but his I guess his mannerisms kind of
bothered me, but over the years I've really grown to
appreciate him. And again, outside of the average Chris on Twitter,
I think Greenwall has also looked at at Barber's case
and it's commented on it, and he's always worth reading always,
(37:15):
So there's stuff out there to you know, to take
in to make a judgment on this, but it's it's
evolving as we speak.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
So I'm always when it comes to whistleblowers, I'm always
on the fence because what are they you know, how
do we know they're not there? Because they're trying to
sew in disinformation. You know, there's the idea that some
claim the government puts people out there to purposely you know,
trickle truth or you know, they're looking to have their
(37:46):
they're fifteen minutes of fame and maybe get a book deal.
So I think it's I'm always on the fence and
look at it with the skeptical eye that might be
the retired police officer and detective in me. Yeah, never
never take things at face value without digging. But and
Linda and I know some people in the field who
have exaggerated their credentials. We won't mention but.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Exaggerated as a generous word.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, but yeah, I just think it's you have to
always take them at face value, but then also step back,
like you said, get the ball the popcorn out, and
you know, really dig into their story and their backgrounds
and see if it's true, if it's not true. And
the problem is if you exaggerate one part of your background,
(38:34):
it kind of kills the credibility. In my opinion, you
could be telling the truth on everything else, but it's
hard to then take it seriously.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it's Martin Willis, who I love his podcast UFO show.
He's a fine art appraiser, and he always says if
he sees one forgery in a collection, it brings the whole,
you know, collection under under scrutiny, under suspicion. So I
(39:04):
don't know anything in Barber's the forty minutes I saw
where he was not telling, you know, there was something
you could say, oh, he is making this up. I
don't know enough about it, but it's certainly it is
certainly worth forty minutes of your time. I think that
if you're interested in this field, watch it, because what
(39:27):
if he's absolutely telling the truth and then you put
this with the other whistleblowers and what luel Zondo has
been saying, and this wouldn't have happened fifteen years ago,
right right, Chris.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, it's it's gone. It's definitely. You remember back in
nineteen eighty seven, what was it? What was the special
on like the W It wasn't the WB at that point, Excitings,
it wasn't it was sightings. It was a while. It
was a two hour UFO cover up live I think
(40:04):
was was what it was called, Okay, and that was
a huge deal. And that was the age of Richard Dodie. Yeah,
and uh yeah, you know how put off and that
was like a trickle compared to today's absolute tsunami of UFO
(40:26):
stories and claims and everything. It's it's impossible to keep
up at this point. But uh but that's the whole
thing is, like, man, it's been. Let let's let's take
the recent history. The New York Times article came out
in what I want to say, ninety seven, December of
ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
No, no, no, no, seventeen.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, twenty seventeen, Like that's that's six years ago now,
like and there was a whole generation of people that
popped up on Twitter and then they call themselves a
Young Guns and they were telling people like me, all
you're too pessimistic and get out of the way, and
we're like, well we've seen this before, Like okay, if
(41:09):
you want to keep posting, like those posts are forever,
Like if you listen to us old guys when we say, like,
you know, we're jaded for a reason. And that's six
years ago. And a lot of them are just they're gone.
There's a few people who are still posting, but most
of them have been disillusioned and you know, are are gone.
(41:29):
So it's it's kind of like the cycle keeps happening.
Every decade, there's a there's something like this. Back in
the two thousands, there was soorce A. Does anybody remember
source a now killer website in the name of UFO
watchdog dot net, which you could probably dig up on
archive dot org. And there was a super nice guy
(41:51):
who used to go to the Pine Bush meetings and uh,
but he got wrapped up in this sorce And again
it's just like I who said, I, you know, I
don't with all these hidden craft and you know, and
bodies and the whole McGillicutty, and he waited, like I
want to say, five to seven years of following this
(42:11):
guy until I think he finally it's like, okay, there's
just nothing to this.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
It was promise after promise after promise. And but that
was a weird, a super weird case because it wasn't
a straightforward as oh, here's this guy lying. There were
elements also trying to discredit him. It was also very
nasty because it possibly involves stolen valor No, definitely worth
(42:38):
looking up because it again it's it's it proves to
you that this the whole whistleblower history, you know, happens
every ten years or so, you know, like we have
seen this movie before.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Maybe yes, can you give us the website again?
Speaker 3 (42:54):
That dot net? Yeah, it should be on archive dot
org if it doesn't exist on the UFO Watchdog yep,
and a great website. I mean skeptically skeptically minded, but
fairly skeptically minded, not Philip class, yeah, but super interesting.
(43:17):
I mean I'm trying to think like every oh, I mean,
in the nineteen seventies you had Robert Eminger and that's
where kind of Linda Bolton Howe came into the story
and a lot of people were taken in and this
is legitimate. They were taken in for meetings with I
want to say, air Force promised certain things that were
(43:40):
never delivered, taught, you know, told about vast films of
craft coming and landing on desert beds, and allegedly a
snippet of a film came out and it took decades
to have the technology get good enough to analyze it
to be like, oh, that's a jet going backwards. So
somebody reversed the film and it was at a perfect
(44:01):
angle that it really did look like a disc, but
it's not a disc.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Well, why don't we take our second break, and when
we come back, we're going to grill mister Burns and
put them on the spot with questions, right, Mike, Yes,
all right, sounds good. This is Hudson River Radio dot com,
your local Rockland County station.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
This is Hudson River Radio dot Com.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well, welcome back from the break. This is an awesome episode.
We need to have mister Burns on here more frequently.
But I want to mention we've come full circle in
the conversation. I'm listening to them, you know, explain some
of these the unexplained, like the hotspots and fields, the lights.
You know, Lynda and I's work with paranormal investigations very
(45:02):
common in hauntings. Hot spots, cold spots, seeing lights, thing
things out of the corner of your eyes. And again,
it sort of brings us right back to the beginning
when we discussed this idea that you know, what are
they really Is it really the heat you're feeling or
is that secondary to the actual phenomenon. Is it really
the lights? And so I find it interesting because the
(45:23):
overlapping parallels just get bigger and bigger the more you
look at it.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Definitely, definitely, Yeah. I was kind of shocked when I
got to Pine Bush and got to know the regulars there,
you know, the group that we call the core now,
because the first thing that stuck in my head is like, wow,
this sounds like outdoor poltergeist events. I mean, you know,
the UFO imagery was present, but the majority of things
(45:51):
experienced were ground level for lack of a better term,
everything from little lights to temperature changes. You know, we've
had psychokinesis incidents. Yeah, super interesting things that would have
(46:11):
fit better in a haunted house context. But even now
after you know, gosh, thirty years, like that's almost too simplified.
But that type of thinking, you know, as I'm learning rapidly,
can be applied to the whole Bigfoot lore, which my god,
that's you know, years and years of research to get
(46:35):
well versed on that. And you mentioned Keel, you know
Keel's It's interesting. Keelis is such a He's the classic,
the classic character in this subject. That he is a person,
and as a researcher was really complicated. He would sometimes
give the impression to people that knew him that he
(46:57):
was kind of, you know, very loose with the facts
and whatnot. And I got to know a guy by
the name of James Moseley who's a legend. He's sadly
not with us anymore, but he's he's a legend in
UFO circles. And I asked him, well, you know, Keel,
what do you think about the Mothman prophecies? Like is
(47:18):
that what happened? And he's like, eh, you know, some
is some is it's that wishy watching this. But even him,
he would bust hoaxes. And I'm talking about Jim Mosley,
he would bust hoaxes. But he would also perpetuate hoaxes.
He was just this complicated character that the UFO field
(47:40):
is just full of. And uh, it's it makes it
interesting and it's maddening at the same time. So you
read Keel and you're like, he's very forward thinking. And
certainly Jacques Vlet and even Jay Allen Heinech towards the
end of his life thought very similar to how Keel thought.
But you know, is Keel also part of the trickster?
(48:04):
Like you know, it's hard to tell. Uh, just super interesting. Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I have a question. Do you think the new administration
is going to release any UFO bombshells?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
I think if there was a chance for an administration
to do so, it might be this one. And so
if it doesn't happen, then we all have to think
long and hard.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Okay, it's a good point because as of today, as
we're recording for context, you know, they've ordered the declassification
of the you know, John F. Kennedy assassination remaining r FK.
Martin Luther King Junior. So that a big move and
I kind of was hoping the same thing. I didn't
want to ask the question, but you know, Jesus if
(49:02):
you're going this far, you know, keep going. There's other
things we want you to declassic.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, does that you know, if we don't hear anything,
is that the uncomfortable truth that there's there is nothing right.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Or there's something they can't they don't want to talk
about it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. We are certainly
living in interesting times, vastly different times than when we
all started doing this.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, so I'm I'm glad about that. It's so much
more open to discuss and uh people. The bottom line
is all of this information coming out gives people the
courage to speak who never would before. So pro or
(49:50):
con with these whistleblowers, true or not, the perception is, well,
if that guy has everything to lose and he's going
on TV, then I can tell my story.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yeah, so that's importantly.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
That certainly is a is a positive. So another question
I have, you know, when are we getting back together
to go to Pure City and Pine Bush and then
do some sky watching.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I would love to as soon as possible.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
All right, Yeah, there's a great restaurant in Pine Bush,
Pure City Vegetarian. I mean, it's an actual restaurant. I
can order anything on the menu that doesn't that happens rarely.
And then we just sit on a field somewhere and
watch the sky. It's great.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I'm in on this one.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
I haven't thought that yet, so I would even suggest,
if Brian's up for it, do we tape an episode
of Pure City.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Oh oh, I'm down. Get a little sky watching too.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, we get an omni wike. We put it in
the middle of the table.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yeah, I can pick stuff off the menu and there
you go.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
Chat Ryan, it's a fellow vegetarian, So twist my arm.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
All right, all right, we just we need to get
the okay with the Pure City there that they won't mind.
And I love it the Pure City episode and people
will be like, what does that mean? What is this pure?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
And then record up on the record during the SkyWatch.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Definitely, so mister Burns the time that oh it was
Vinny and Barb and Bob and I don't remember all
else who was there. We were, as you recall, we
saw those lights zig zagging over the field that night.
That was yeah, that was very interesting. And some people
(51:58):
who saw the photos, oh it's a no, no, no no,
this thing was zigzagging tight zigzags back and forth, up
and down. We could not judge the distance it was
over that cornfield, probably, but I can't say whether it
(52:18):
was tiny and two hundred feet it was large and
eight hundred feet away. I don't know, but that was
an amaze. I remember trying to get a better wrangle.
I think I was standing on top of a guardrail
post or something, balancing up there, and I got to
have my camera and I'm like, if I fall, don't
try to save me, save my camera. But yeah, things
(52:42):
are still to be seen there.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, it seems to be.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
I mean, hotspots traditionally never go completely dead. They ebb
and flow, and you know, as we've talked about, unfortunately,
the more development, the less endivity in general.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, I think we need to start a go fund
me page to raise money to buy a little plot
of land and pine bush. I mean that is our dream, right.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Yes, absolutely, Yeah, Vinnie still hates me to this day
because we were seriously talking about buying the very last
liver of land on Marshmallow Field, right down the road
from Angry Orchard. Yes, but I was in freelancing and
freelancing was not steady, so I opted out and he
(53:35):
hates me to this day.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Oh if we could have had a little just a
little patch of land, set up our chairs and watch
every night. Well, if anyone wants to donate land or
large sums of money, please get in touch with us,
because it's I'm fascinated and full of hope and anticipation
(53:59):
every time I go to Pine Bush because you know,
I don't expect something to happen, but there's a much
better chance of it happening there than just about anywhere
else in this area.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
And so it's it's continues to be an amazing, amazing place.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's a heck of a story. Really, I just, uh,
you know, I'll I'll dip out of being able to
pursue it to deal with you know, everyday life. But
when I get back into it, it's like, wow, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
So yeah, it's it's a story that you know, has
been told in.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Little pieces, little pieces, but not the whole.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
I don't know that you could tell the whole story.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
It's a is not known, I really do. I think
a lot of it is is not known. And yep,
and you know, I think we've talked about the town
dynamics that neither one of us were aware of before
this year that stretched back into you know, the twentieth century,
and how that might have might play a role in it,
(55:13):
so that we might be able to break through.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
The dynamics of we don't want to talk about this
stuff because it's it's bad and yeah, it's evil. We
don't want to talk about the evil whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
So I would I would tell people that going back
to Vinnie the you know Vinny has I mean, there
were a core of people that spent night upon night
out there. Vinnie, you know, is definitely one of them.
I think Vinnie was the most mobile. So he's been
you know, all over town at various places. And he'll
(55:52):
say to me when I bring up, you know, potentially
unnerving incidents that happened, or if somebody says like, I,
you know, I don't like it there or whatnot, and
he's like, man, I've never experienced anything like that. He's like,
it's been overwhelmingly positive for me, you know. And I
have to say it's that way for me too, Like
(56:13):
just like sheer excitement going up there.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, other than Indian Springs Road, it is very exciting.
I'm telling you.
Speaker 5 (56:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Don't you feel that there? Do you?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
I need to spend somehow spend more time on No.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You don't. I am not recommending it, but if you're
crazy enough to go, it's just something I go. You know,
my Spidey sense goes on full alert there. It doesn't
feel good, But every place else in Pine Bush, yes,
it's that excitement and anticipation.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Yeah, I'll go with you, mister Burns. I've never been there,
and I want to see, okay, but I want to
see that feeling, you know, or what's going on up there.
And I may regret that as I have in the
past other things, Yes, yeah, but I would be very
curious to see that area too, and and just to
see what kind of a feeling might be different for everybody.
(57:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
All right, I'll go. If you want to record, you know,
fifteen minutes of the show.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Okay, that sounds.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Good, all right, all right, I'll give you that much.
But if the equipment goes haywire and sparks start flying
out of the microphone where.
Speaker 5 (57:28):
The battery dies, the battery dies or something, all right,
So any other final things you want to mention talk
about put out a request for anything.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Oh boy, just well you were very kind and mentioned
my project at the start of the show. But you know,
I'll just say again, you know, just hoping to collect
as many reports as possible to add on to what
we know about the area and again trying to make
some conclusions and all a said and done, and you know,
(58:03):
anonymity is absolutely honored. You make the call as to
how you want your case to either be presented or
not presented. And and yeah, it's once again. The The
email address is peb Mysteries at gmail dot com and
the website is pine Bush Anomaly dot com. And my
(58:25):
buddy Vinnie has his pine Bush UFO Facebook page and
pine Bush Phenomena Facebook page. So the community is still
out there. And of course there is the museum in town.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
So oh yes, we love the museum. Love the museum
if you haven't. I recently, just a few weeks ago,
was talking to someone from Pinebush and I said, oh,
what do you think about the museum. Oh, yeah, there's
a museum. It's like didn't even really wasn't on her
(58:56):
radar and didn't really care about it. I'm like, oh
my god, it's a pine Bush UFO And paranormal Museum.
How but it's not everybody's cup of tea.
Speaker 5 (59:08):
Yes, yeah, and that's all right, that's all right, that's
all right.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
But yeah, so if you haven't been there, go there.
They have all Mike. You've done some events there and.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Planning one in the April right now. Oh great, neat
nothing written in stone yet as for a date or
a topic. But I was in touch with the director
there and he wants to do something, and so I'll
be back at the museum and not just as an exhibit.
All right.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, mister Burns. Always
a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, when, when it when, and if it ever warms
up there in the Northeast, we will be getting together
for dinner and a little skywatching.
Speaker 3 (59:58):
That sound wonderful.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I think we can you just schedule mister Burns for
like repeating.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Every other month.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know, we can volunteer, but I
would love that. No, it was great. I mean it's
always fun talking with you because you're just a wealth
and knowledge, but you're also a great guy to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
You bring a lot of enthusiasm to the field. And
you know you love what you do and that comes
through and you're also.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
I appreciate that. It's also just very easy to talk
to you and Linda. So it's been a blast as always.
And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to when the weather
warms up and getting in the car and heading up north.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
I'm ready. I'm ready for it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
All right, Mike, bring us out in your inimitable style.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Well, thank you to mister burns on behalf of Linda
and I. Thank you to all of our listeners, whether
you are new or bend with us from the beginning.
If you're new, you can catch up with all of
our podcast on any of your favorite podcast server. You've
been listening to UFO Headquarters in the meantime before we
get up the Pine bush, keep your own eyes on
the sky.
Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Hudson River Radio dot com a favorite among shut ins
and dogs.
Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO Headquarters.
Beautiful Headquarters, and a big thank you to Travis Walton
for that amazing intro. It never gets old no matter
how many times I hear it. And we have Linda
(00:30):
on here today, Mike Wardan and Linda Zimmerman with UFO Headquarters.
But we have a very very special return guest tonight, Linda.
And I'm excited because whenever he's on the show, it's
a great program.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh yes, the mysterious, the one and only mister Burns.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes, yes, thank you for having me on again.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And Mike, I appreciate it, Yes, mister yeah, Well it's
great because you're you know, you never cease to amaze me.
I'll I'll ask him a question or mention something. And
he has the encyclopedia of you know, the who wasn't where?
(01:10):
Of everything. So my hat is off to you and
your scholarship in this field.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, thank you. Hopefully one day I'll actually get to
apply to something. Right now, it's just taking up space.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Now, yeah, but you've you've collected it. It's there, yep.
And you do have the pine Bush archive.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, yep, yes, that so.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Back in the mid nineties, I got I traveled up
to Pine Bush to see if there was any truth
to the stories that I was hearing, and long story short,
there was definitely a firm reason to stick around and
to dig further. And I became a part of the community,
you know, chasing after literally literally chasing in those days
(01:58):
after the UFO phenomena. And it's been near and dear
to my heart. It's been an ongoing pursuit, an ongoing mystery.
I seem to change my overall opinion on things every
seven years, so I'm due, I think next year. But yeah,
there's still an absolute ton of work to do. But
(02:21):
what I've been doing is I've been I have been
doing firsthand interviews with people when I can.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I I have.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
If I look through my files, I have much more
than I think I do. And uh, they're still out there.
They're they're now scattered literally across the world. I found
a guy in China, So yeah, a lot of people
with a lot of stories, and you know, half of
me thinks that I haven't even you know, cracked the
(02:50):
majority of them. So uh, yeah, I just keep going
and little away at it.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Wow, so a lot of these files are online, number
of them really is the it's it's been interesting to
to gain the the confidence of the people who are
willing to share their stories.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It's it's uh so I have to kind of go
witness by witnesses to to how they want to be,
how they want their their story to be translated if
they do, or relayed if they do. It's been challenging.
So there's not a lot online right now. I I
will have the task when I have time, hopefully when
(03:36):
I finally retire, to go through everything and make something presentable,
you know, to to to throw out to the world
and see what they think.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Now, if someone has a pine Bush connected story, uh,
can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The website absolutely, the The website is pine Bush Anomaly
dot com. My email address is pb Mysteries at gmail
dot com.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, great, So if you are out there and you've
been hesitant, you know, and you're afraid to give up
your identity, don't worry. Nobody here is here too to
rat you out. We just want your story.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's a privilege to hear
the stories and the whole point of taking the stories
in is literally just to try to put two and
two together. In the long run, it's an unbelievable story.
It's it really has been a heck of an adventure
that I feel like I stumbled into. I feel, you know,
(04:40):
very fortunate. And and of course Pine Bush is kind
of like my my home away from home. Lots of
lots of good, warm feelings towards that area, so I
love traveling up there and learning more about it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And and things are still happening.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, shockingly they are. I a I know we've talked
about it a little bit this past calendar year, but
I have reason to think that there was a burst.
I shouldn't say it burst. There was a bump in
activity in twenty twenty three, like there was definitely something more.
It's something going on more than the past ten years,
(05:17):
let's say, which is interesting. And and in the the
usual spots too, which is is very interesting. So it's, uh, if.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You could just mention for people who aren't as familiar
we know the usual spots, what would you call the
usual spots in pine.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Bush, Oh, West Searsville and Montgomery Searsville close to it,
and Indian Springs Road, New Prospect. You know, these places
have a long history and they're still producing sightings.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So right along fifty two there by the cemetery.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Not so much by well there, yeah, not so much
by the cemetery lately, yes, okay, but definitely in the past.
And certainly I think if if some of the residents
of you know what I dubbed the Fairy Knoll, that
area between fifty two where beth bellel Is and West Searsville,
(06:22):
I am sure there are stories within those residents from
you know, six dicks decades back to present.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned Indian Springs. I get
a headache every time I go on that road. I'm serious,
That Indian Springs Road creeps the hell out of.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I am not ashamed to say it.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, it's an interesting area, and I'll tell the story
of how I was kind of introduced to that. And
this is not specifically Indian Springs Road. It's a little
I want to say, east of that, east northeast of that,
but it's close by. But a friend of mine during
the glory days of the group that met in the nineties,
(07:10):
starting in ninety three that still exists in form thanks
to Bill wyand he took me up there. There was
a family or there is a family that lives up
there that had repeat activity and they and they said
things were still going on. So he kind of took
me to the general area it is and he's like,
(07:31):
I want to show you something. So he he parks
the car and just turns off the light and it
was pitch black. I mean, you could not see definition
of anything in front of you. And I was like, wow,
like this is the perfect location for you know, odd
supernatural themed events to happen. But yeah, it's an interesting area, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, I've had some weird things happen. And uh and Mike,
ourfre wonderfully psychic friend Barbara, I told her she doesn't
live all that far from there, and I said, you
need to check this out and she was like, oh
my god, same thing. There's uh, there is something there
(08:19):
is bad juju there. I don't know how you know,
that's a highly technical term, I know, but yeah, so
if people are looking for something unusual, but just be prepared.
I don't know how people live there, and I'm not
even kidding. I couldn't. I couldn't live on that road.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, I have a question for mister Burns real quick. Yes,
and not to put you on the spot, but you
mentioned you you're collected all these you know, first hand accounts.
He's great eye in this accounts. And you also mentioned
that every seven years you're sort of own overall evaluation changes.
What where where are you at now looking at the
(09:00):
anomaly and what you think is going on?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Okay, So I'm now moving in the direction that UFO
is a misnomer, that that there is something generating phenomena
that that appears under a number of guyses for lack
of a better term. So the phrase I say is like,
(09:30):
I think the imagery is secondary. It's everything underneath the
main presentation of this phenomena that really matters. That gives
you a hint that it's you know, the same thing.
And I think the best presentation I've seen of that
there's a wonderful researcher by the name of Joshua Kutchin
(09:51):
I think is how you pronounced his last name. But
he and a guy Timothy Renner from Pennsylvania who researches
chestnut ridge, which is just like pine bush, only I
think considerably bigger. They wrote a couple of books called
Where the Footprint, Where the Footprints End, and it's bigfoot centered,
(10:15):
but they really dive into how the bigfoot imagery is
almost secondary. I know very little about bigfoot lore, and
now I'm kind of realizing, like, if I want to
understand the big picture, I need to delve into that
at some point. Yeah, it's super interesting. It was even
(10:38):
interesting to me to hear that bigfoot groups have a
category where, you know, they lump in reports that deal
with phenomena where there's actually not a creature sided there's
no visual sighting of any type of creature. It's all
the stuff underneath it, happening around it, little balls of light,
(10:59):
smell flashes of light, feelings of dread. I mean that's
straight out of heine Bush. It's straight out of Marley Woods,
which is associated with UFOs. I don't think so much
with Piedmont and Yakama, but the Metal Spot, which is
(11:19):
researched by Trey Hudson and Trey. It's funny hearing like
Trey also talk about the same thing where he's thinking
that there's one, for lack of a better word, intelligence
kind of producing all this phenomena that has different imagery
laid over it. So that's kind of where I'm going now,
but I'll even take it a little further. I'm kind
(11:40):
of going to the point where I don't even think
it's organic. So you know, when people talk about gin,
they're still describing something that they that the traditional belief
is that it's it was organically you know, these intelligence
was were organically made for Again, for lack of a
better word, I'm starting to head in the direction where
(12:00):
I think this is artificial in some way, shape or form,
just because of the absurdity of the imagery. The imagery
is very specific, it resonates with us, it's it's well
thought out, for lack of a better term, So right there.
You know, I guess now when we start talking about
the whistle blow or the big problem with whistleblower stories
for me is it's hard for me to imagine something
(12:24):
solid enough to crash and be collected. So I'm drifting
farther away from the traditional extraterrestrial hypothesis every year makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
No, That's that's very interesting because that's sort of the
direction I started going with after I visited the Mothman
Museum down in West Virginia. Yeah, and picked up a
bunch of John Kiell books and really started reading into
his you know, very similar theory that the secondary the
paranormal activity we perceive, whether it's a ghost foot UFOs
(13:01):
are really just the manifestation that we're capable of seeing.
But there's a he called them ultra terrestrials. But I
mean it's still I think I to me, it explains
a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, it's the biggest problem for me over the years,
and it took me a while to actually kind of
figure this out. What the problem is. It's always been
a thorn Tomie Side is just how the imagery is
just ridiculous, but it happens for all intentsive purposes. You know,
the hundreds of reports that we we've learned of and
(13:34):
we've spoken to people about, and we you know, everybody
on this h on the show, We've we've spoken to people.
It's it's there, it's an experience, it's part of the
human experience. But that doesn't nullify the fact that the
imagery is really kind of ridiculous. So yeah, that's the
thing that that that's always bothered me. And it's interesting,
(13:54):
you know, I hear that jockh Ohala is coming out
with a new book, and I've noticed A has been
peppering the word simulation in his most recent interviews, So
I'm hoping he kind of expands on that because I
kind of feel I don't want to, like wholeheartedly go
into the simulation camp, but I'm kind of interested in
(14:14):
hearing that viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, I like, so you're you know where you're at.
I really like because it for how long people have
been experiencing things like bigfoot, pick the Lockness Monster just
off the top of my head, you know, all these
paranormal phenomenon but yet no evidence of it. I mean, realistically,
if there really was a Bigfoot at some point, there
has to be physical evidence we would come across something,
(14:41):
and there isn't any. The Lockness Monster, no physical evidence whatsoever.
Science has kind of proven that, but yet people, reliably
reliable witnesses report this stuff. They all can't be lying.
So it kind of explains the lack of really hardcore
solid evidence because there wouldn't be physical evidence.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, agreed. In fact, breaching over to the whistleblower
that we'll be talking about, and just whistleblower claims in general. Oh,
I didn't look up the name. There's a famous case
and Valet wrote about it the most. I'm gonna mispronounce it,
you know what, I'm not going to make a full
(15:24):
of myself. I'm gonna look at on my Google.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But it don't we take our first break now and
then you can look that up and we will come
back to the whistleblower and the case we need to pronounce. Yes,
all right, so we will be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Excellent.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Hudson River Radio dot com Hudson River Radio dot Com,
subsidiary of Glacier Entertainment LLC, blasting the competition New York's
Hudson Valley.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So welcome back after our first break. And Linda mister Burns,
this is already a conversation that I am in I'm
in love with because you're you're speaking my language, like
you know, it's my love language here. But you know,
(16:20):
it's it's an interesting not all people agree with you
or I or or or anybody in this field. There's
there's a lot of different theories and we're all kind
of guessing, I guess or making our our best conclusions
on the evidence. But yes, I'm curious, I'm curious what
case you have here. I I'm not familiar with it.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It is a famous case, it's super well documented and
VALA's written about it for years. And it's killing me
because I'm not coming up with it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Why don't I mention the the Jacob Barber information if
you want to come up with the name or yeah,
so while you're looking that up, let me just so.
Recently it's been all all the rage, people pro and
(17:13):
against and flipping out over Ross coltheart who I think
does a fabulous job interviewing people, getting interviews other people
can't whether you agree with what his guests have to
say or not. On News Nation had the latest whistleblower,
Jacob Barber, who was with the US Air Force Mechanic
(17:38):
helicopter pilot expert marksmen, was with Special Operations, worked for
the DoD as a civilian as well, had NATO top
secret clearance. Three separate soldiers who worked with them corroborated,
so whatever you think of them, the men had as credentials.
(18:03):
And he just came right out and said it said,
you know, he wasn't eager to do this. It took
two years to convince him to come forward. He claimed
he worked on a special crash retrieval squad on what
he called the range where it was US government testing
(18:26):
exotic aircraft. And he said, you know, we saw kinds
of weird things. Something would crash, we'd have to pick
it up and bring it back to where it had
to go, you know, simple as that. But then there
were some times there were things in other places that
we're a little off, were a little different. And he claimed, well,
(18:51):
let me just say what he saw on this during
his time. He said, things come in and out of sight,
Things disappear for a moment and reappear. Things seemed to
move very quickly. Things change color, they change shape. He
talked about seeing things coming out of the ground, out
(19:14):
of a ridge, and immediately I thought of pine bush
because of things coming in and out of the ground.
And we'll get to some of what the other things
he thought he saw that weren't human made, he believed.
But mister, mister Burns, did you have a chance to
(19:37):
find that case?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I have not. I'm failing miserably, And I said you were.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Mister Encyclopedia, Well can you tell us about the case.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And then yes, it basically was it was a sighting
of I want to say, a disc shaped craft that
wobbled and emitted a substance that fell to the ground,
and it was a slag like substance. And the reason
I'm bringing this up is because I think like that
(20:13):
the point where physical evidence kind of morphs into UFO
mythology is how you describe that substance. I think in
in kind of you know, especially in the past what
seven years since the New York Times article, it's been
a lot of stories and rumors about parts being held
(20:34):
in warehouses and possibly by aerospace companies, and I wonder
if that's really referring to slag, because this slag that's
it's it's not the case that I'm thinking of which
it starts with it. It's like Ubuntu or something to
that effect. It's it's not the only one. There's been
(20:54):
a bunch of cases where slag has been emitted by
the phenomena, and you could speculate that it's a by
product of the phenomenon manifesting in our environment. Again just
pure speculation, but it has been tested. And what Valet
had been saying is that for years it was just
the price was the price in the availability of the
gear to do so was so prohibited that it was
(21:16):
only within the past ten years that this material was
able to be tested.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like the meta materials they talk about.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, so perfect. Yeah, that's that's another word that gets
used a lot, and I bet that it's referring to slag.
And I guess what's interesting about it deals with the
isotope or the isotopes rather Isotope is an audio company,
so uh so. Yeah, It's the reason I'm bringing that
up is because when you you know, I use the
(21:45):
term ufo mythology for the the whistleblower stories, and you know,
a lot of people would would be like, oh, you're
you're you're insinuating that they're not real. Not necessarily, you know,
UFOs are a folklore, but they could also be a
physical reality. It's not either or they have to exist,
you know, in that in that littal space.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So yeah, in the last episode, we did talk about
a case in Connecticut where they just said, oh, it's
a blue book case. It was just slag, but it
it was causing a weight change in material that was
sitting next to it. Oh wow, Yes, and it had
(22:29):
very unusual composition. But what causes a weight change in
something you know, sitting on the counter next to it.
So I think that was a very early case of
meta material or whatever you'd you'd want to say yeah
about it. But so you did watch Jacob Barber on
(22:49):
Ross coltheart.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I did. I saw the the forty minute one. Apparently
there is a three hour case. And as much as
I hate to say it because I really hate the
platform X, you know, X dot com and you know
what used to be called Twitter, is still just an
amazing resource of people from all walks of life commenting
(23:16):
on stories. So you know, when you're listening to the
Jacob Barber story, I'm not a military guy, I'm not
an aerospace guy, and kind of you know, critiquing what
he's saying, you really got to know that world again.
There there are some fantastic people with accounts on X.
(23:37):
Still they haven't moved over to Blue Sky. I hope
they do at some point. But the the touch person
is a guy that goes by the name of the
average Chris. You do a search for that name on
X you'll find his postings. He himself is US Air
Force veteran, and he has a community of people who
(24:02):
have worked in the Air Force and they So the
first thing they did is that a number of people
watched the full three hour show and figured out that
the forty minute admitted a lot of information that was
not shining very well on Barber's background. So basically, the
(24:23):
forty minute show made it seem like Barbara had more
credentials than he actually did. And again, if you just
do a search for average Chris on X you'll find
the posts that dig into this. There's a lot of them.
It's something the average person like myself would not know,
who had no military experience and whatnot. But the other
(24:46):
thing is is that it is a news nation. You know,
the blame is on news nation also for creative editing,
for lack of a better word, And I mean I've
saw that decades ago with stuff that you know that
Fox was putting out. I even saw one on pine
Bush that Fox did where it was very creatively edited
(25:06):
and made certain things seem likely that definitely were not.
So it's a case of that. You know, what news
channels are entertainment. They need eyeballs. But uh so, yeah,
it's it's one of those things where there's a lot
of questions about his experience. And then the video is
(25:28):
interesting because.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Do you want to describe the egg video.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, so it's from the perspective of the helicopter. It's
it's supposedly night vision. It's looking down the cable that
is got this, and we're assuming it's the same object,
this egg shaped craft. And somebody with military experience listened
to the sound of the helicopter on the video instead
(25:55):
it's Hueye. It's definitely a Huey rotor. It's very distinct.
He's like, I find it baffling that there's no movement
of grass or even you know, dirt below the uh,
you know, below the egg. Is that the rotors aren't
or they you know, the blades aren't kicking up any
debris or anything. He's like, I expect to see that.
(26:17):
So that's one question about it. The other question is,
and and somebody produced a bunch of videos showing in essence,
weather balloons, and there was very there was a lot
of similarity between him. Was it a you know, an
open shut case. Maybe not, but it was curious to
(26:37):
see the comparison with weather balloons. So I guess what
the take away from it is that it's it's one
of these stories and it's amazing in the age of
social media, how like within a week this just blows
up and it could be your second job to keep
up with with everything, right, It really is amazing. It's uh,
you know, well.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
That was not Barber's video. So, but he had the
story about seeing an egg and his job was they
you know, people on the ground I guess, strapped it
in and they carried it somewhere. But he also talked
about what he called eight gons, Yes, that they were
(27:19):
discs that from above looked like you know, eight sections,
and he talked about retrieving several of those. And then
the freaky one was where he felt overwhelmed with emotion.
I think this was the one that was in a crate.
He didn't even see what it was, but he had
(27:43):
tears in his eyes and felt this something communicating with him.
And you know, you don't have to believe a word
of what he's saying, but how many times have we
interviewed witnesses who said something suddenly swept over for me
and I felt like it was communicating with me. So
(28:05):
if he concocted this entire story, he really hit upon
some very curious things. Again about seeing craft coming out
of the ground, out of the side of a ridge.
That's pine bush all over with. So what I have
(28:27):
not seen the three hour. I watched the forty five minutes,
and you know that one about the in and out
of the ground, because that's you know, he talked about
trans medium and we usually refer to in and out
of the water, going through different mediums air water. Very
(28:48):
rarely do we talk about in and out of the ground. Yeah,
so you've had a little experience with that in pine Bush.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yes, yes, yes, I definitely saw in a mission of
light come out of a field probably between a quarter
mile and a half mile away. So yeah. And I
don't think the whole coming out of the ground thing
is hip pop culture the way say, the Hitchhiker effect
has because of the skin Walker show. So I always
(29:19):
kind of get a lump in my throat when some
aspect of you know, paranormal studies makes it into pop
culture the way that like the term EVP did when
ghost Hunters went on air, and the way ectoplasm did
when Ghostbusters was you know, in the theaters. So it's interesting.
It's like, I, yeah, I don't think the whole ground
(29:39):
based thing is out in pop culture. So when someone
mentions that it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It would have been a very Again, if he's making
it up, that would have been an unusual aspect to
make part of his story.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
But yeah, I've interviewed people who said they in pine
Bush felt the ground tremble and heard noises underneath, as
if construction was going on under there. There was the
woman on West Searsville in the late nineties, early two
thousands I can't recall who saw what she described as
(30:19):
like the rings of Saturn, some sort of energy that
swirled up out of the middle of West Searsville Road
and on the lawn next to her. She said it
looked like Fourth of July sparklers. So some sort of sparkling,
spitting energy coming up out of the ground. I mean,
(30:40):
what's up with that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, there's a long history of I mean, the whole
underground sound thing and the whole machinery underground. It seems
to be a constant in hotspots, which is super interesting.
I can tell you experienced that I have not, but
(31:02):
I know I think I want to say six cases
in the Pinebush area. Then he might kill me. I
think I think he experienced that. It was one of
the earliest things he experienced, and it would be in
his book. I want to say it was ninety three.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Do you want to explain that for people who do
not know Vinnie in this book?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So, my buddy Vinny Police, I will say that he
is probably the single person in the world who has
had more firsthand visual experiences with the phenomena than anybody.
He put in the hours he spent his twenties going
(31:44):
up to Pine Bush and chasing and when I when
I say chasing, I mean chasing, and so yeah. So
he wrote a book on it in Wow, two thousand
and three, called The Pine Bush Phenomena. We hope he
rephes at some point, but there are still copies on Amazon.
But I want to say that his experience with what
(32:06):
seemed to be underground sounds was in nineteen ninety three,
and it was one of the earliest experiences he had.
There were two other people on the road that we
know of, and it was it was still light out
and at the same I think he described the sounds
as like almost like a train passing underground, but there
(32:26):
were actually light phenomena at the time. He always references
Spielberg's close encounters when the orange colored UFOs are coming
through the clouds heading towards the young boy's house, and
he said it was kind of like that there were
just colored lights in the clouds. Again, I hope I'm
(32:50):
not confusing to report, so I'm sure I'll hear from
him if I if I did, and take my lumps.
But that's certainly not the only one I can think of.
When we were still at the VFW that we had
a guest. Uh yeah, it's someone who's who's known.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The Pine Bush meetings.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes, yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, the Pine Bush Meetings that
that are still going on. And a bunch went out
to I want to say West Yearsville afterwards and experienced
the same thing. They experienced what sounded like sounds coming
from underneath them, and I do remember them all saying
like it really freaked them out, Like this is a
(33:33):
group that has seen and experienced a lot, and that
was something that that unsettled them. There is a body
of reports from the Gunks. Actually, if you go north
of Pine Bush, there's a lot of stories of underground sounds.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's the Chuang Gunk Mountains thing, yep.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And uh so that's you know, it's it's it's part
of kind of the the lore in in the area.
But also I think there's a lot of reports in
Colorado of all places of underground sounds associated with UFO activity,
and to connect Colorado with Pine Bush. The most mysterious
(34:18):
character in pine Bush lore, whose first name is Dale,
sadly not with us anymore. She experienced that activity in
Colorado and then in pine Bush with Ellen Crystal. Ellen
Crystal also experienced blasts of air coming up from the
middle of nowhere when she was in fields.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
That I hadn't heard of coming out of the ground,
coming out.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Of the ground. And so so the way she and
Dale interpreted it is that something was building something underneath
that had connection to the UFO activity. And I gotta say,
I've never experienced the air coming out, but I experienced
(35:05):
three times twice on West Seers rail Road and once
in the old airport off of Albany Post or close
to Albany Post, like a small area where the temperature
was easily ten to fifteen degrees warmer, like you could
walk ten steps and be in and out of it,
(35:26):
and walk back and be in and out of it.
I've never experienced anything like that and outside of pine Bush,
And interestingly enough, I found a report from Australia, an
incredible researcher by the name of Keith Basterfield, who usually
is associated with government document stuff, but he researched a
place of repeat activity and experienced the same thing, this
(35:49):
really small area where the temperature was considerably I can't
remember whether it was warmer or cooler. But again he
said he would just walk through it and walk back
and walk through it. So when Ellen, you know, and
I read Ellen's account of the air coming up, you
know that resonated a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Keith Basterfield had a great collection of animal
reaction cases for my book. Yeah, good researcher. So all
in all, do you completely dismiss Jacob Barber? Do you
think some of it could be true? Where where do
you lend?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I'd say, I'm gonna lean back with a thing of
popcorn and kind of see how it's kind of like
the best way to approach all this. You know, it's
it's interesting a guy everybody knows, John Greenwald, who has
hosted The Black Vault. It's funny. He I always praised
(36:54):
his research, but his I guess his mannerisms kind of
bothered me, but over the years I've really grown to
appreciate him. And again, outside of the average Chris on Twitter,
I think Greenwall has also looked at at Barber's case
and it's commented on it, and he's always worth reading always,
(37:15):
So there's stuff out there to you know, to take
in to make a judgment on this, but it's it's
evolving as we speak.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
So I'm always when it comes to whistleblowers, I'm always
on the fence because what are they you know, how
do we know they're not there? Because they're trying to
sew in disinformation. You know, there's the idea that some
claim the government puts people out there to purposely you know,
trickle truth or you know, they're looking to have their
(37:46):
they're fifteen minutes of fame and maybe get a book deal.
So I think it's I'm always on the fence and
look at it with the skeptical eye that might be
the retired police officer and detective in me. Yeah, never
never take things at face value without digging. But and
Linda and I know some people in the field who
have exaggerated their credentials. We won't mention but.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Exaggerated as a generous word.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, but yeah, I just think it's you have to
always take them at face value, but then also step back,
like you said, get the ball the popcorn out, and
you know, really dig into their story and their backgrounds
and see if it's true, if it's not true. And
the problem is if you exaggerate one part of your background,
(38:34):
it kind of kills the credibility. In my opinion, you
could be telling the truth on everything else, but it's
hard to then take it seriously.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it's Martin Willis, who I love his podcast UFO show.
He's a fine art appraiser, and he always says if
he sees one forgery in a collection, it brings the whole,
you know, collection under under scrutiny, under suspicion. So I
(39:04):
don't know anything in Barber's the forty minutes I saw
where he was not telling, you know, there was something
you could say, oh, he is making this up. I
don't know enough about it, but it's certainly it is
certainly worth forty minutes of your time. I think that
if you're interested in this field, watch it, because what
(39:27):
if he's absolutely telling the truth and then you put
this with the other whistleblowers and what luel Zondo has
been saying, and this wouldn't have happened fifteen years ago,
right right, Chris.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, it's it's gone. It's definitely. You remember back in
nineteen eighty seven, what was it? What was the special
on like the W It wasn't the WB at that point, Excitings,
it wasn't it was sightings. It was a while. It
was a two hour UFO cover up live I think
(40:04):
was was what it was called, Okay, and that was
a huge deal. And that was the age of Richard Dodie. Yeah,
and uh yeah, you know how put off and that
was like a trickle compared to today's absolute tsunami of UFO
(40:26):
stories and claims and everything. It's it's impossible to keep
up at this point. But uh but that's the whole
thing is, like, man, it's been. Let let's let's take
the recent history. The New York Times article came out
in what I want to say, ninety seven, December of
ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
No, no, no, no, seventeen.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, twenty seventeen, Like that's that's six years ago now,
like and there was a whole generation of people that
popped up on Twitter and then they call themselves a
Young Guns and they were telling people like me, all
you're too pessimistic and get out of the way, and
we're like, well we've seen this before, Like okay, if
(41:09):
you want to keep posting, like those posts are forever,
Like if you listen to us old guys when we say, like,
you know, we're jaded for a reason. And that's six
years ago. And a lot of them are just they're gone.
There's a few people who are still posting, but most
of them have been disillusioned and you know, are are gone.
(41:29):
So it's it's kind of like the cycle keeps happening.
Every decade, there's a there's something like this. Back in
the two thousands, there was soorce A. Does anybody remember
source a now killer website in the name of UFO
watchdog dot net, which you could probably dig up on
archive dot org. And there was a super nice guy
(41:51):
who used to go to the Pine Bush meetings and uh,
but he got wrapped up in this sorce And again
it's just like I who said, I, you know, I
don't with all these hidden craft and you know, and
bodies and the whole McGillicutty, and he waited, like I
want to say, five to seven years of following this
(42:11):
guy until I think he finally it's like, okay, there's
just nothing to this.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
It was promise after promise after promise. And but that
was a weird, a super weird case because it wasn't
a straightforward as oh, here's this guy lying. There were
elements also trying to discredit him. It was also very
nasty because it possibly involves stolen valor No, definitely worth
(42:38):
looking up because it again it's it's it proves to
you that this the whole whistleblower history, you know, happens
every ten years or so, you know, like we have
seen this movie before.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Maybe yes, can you give us the website again?
Speaker 3 (42:54):
That dot net? Yeah, it should be on archive dot
org if it doesn't exist on the UFO Watchdog yep,
and a great website. I mean skeptically skeptically minded, but
fairly skeptically minded, not Philip class, yeah, but super interesting.
(43:17):
I mean I'm trying to think like every oh, I mean,
in the nineteen seventies you had Robert Eminger and that's
where kind of Linda Bolton Howe came into the story
and a lot of people were taken in and this
is legitimate. They were taken in for meetings with I
want to say, air Force promised certain things that were
(43:40):
never delivered, taught, you know, told about vast films of
craft coming and landing on desert beds, and allegedly a
snippet of a film came out and it took decades
to have the technology get good enough to analyze it
to be like, oh, that's a jet going backwards. So
somebody reversed the film and it was at a perfect
(44:01):
angle that it really did look like a disc, but
it's not a disc.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Well, why don't we take our second break, and when
we come back, we're going to grill mister Burns and
put them on the spot with questions, right, Mike, Yes,
all right, sounds good. This is Hudson River Radio dot com,
your local Rockland County station.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
This is Hudson River Radio dot Com.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well, welcome back from the break. This is an awesome episode.
We need to have mister Burns on here more frequently.
But I want to mention we've come full circle in
the conversation. I'm listening to them, you know, explain some
of these the unexplained, like the hotspots and fields, the lights.
You know, Lynda and I's work with paranormal investigations very
(45:02):
common in hauntings. Hot spots, cold spots, seeing lights, thing
things out of the corner of your eyes. And again,
it sort of brings us right back to the beginning
when we discussed this idea that you know, what are
they really Is it really the heat you're feeling or
is that secondary to the actual phenomenon. Is it really
the lights? And so I find it interesting because the
(45:23):
overlapping parallels just get bigger and bigger the more you
look at it.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Definitely, definitely, Yeah. I was kind of shocked when I
got to Pine Bush and got to know the regulars there,
you know, the group that we call the core now,
because the first thing that stuck in my head is like, wow,
this sounds like outdoor poltergeist events. I mean, you know,
the UFO imagery was present, but the majority of things
(45:51):
experienced were ground level for lack of a better term,
everything from little lights to temperature changes. You know, we've
had psychokinesis incidents. Yeah, super interesting things that would have
(46:11):
fit better in a haunted house context. But even now
after you know, gosh, thirty years, like that's almost too simplified.
But that type of thinking, you know, as I'm learning rapidly,
can be applied to the whole Bigfoot lore, which my god,
that's you know, years and years of research to get
(46:35):
well versed on that. And you mentioned Keel, you know
Keel's It's interesting. Keelis is such a He's the classic,
the classic character in this subject. That he is a person,
and as a researcher was really complicated. He would sometimes
give the impression to people that knew him that he
(46:57):
was kind of, you know, very loose with the facts
and whatnot. And I got to know a guy by
the name of James Moseley who's a legend. He's sadly
not with us anymore, but he's he's a legend in
UFO circles. And I asked him, well, you know, Keel,
what do you think about the Mothman prophecies? Like is
(47:18):
that what happened? And he's like, eh, you know, some
is some is it's that wishy watching this. But even him,
he would bust hoaxes. And I'm talking about Jim Mosley,
he would bust hoaxes. But he would also perpetuate hoaxes.
He was just this complicated character that the UFO field
(47:40):
is just full of. And uh, it's it makes it
interesting and it's maddening at the same time. So you
read Keel and you're like, he's very forward thinking. And
certainly Jacques Vlet and even Jay Allen Heinech towards the
end of his life thought very similar to how Keel thought.
But you know, is Keel also part of the trickster?
(48:04):
Like you know, it's hard to tell. Uh, just super interesting. Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I have a question. Do you think the new administration
is going to release any UFO bombshells?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
I think if there was a chance for an administration
to do so, it might be this one. And so
if it doesn't happen, then we all have to think
long and hard.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Okay, it's a good point because as of today, as
we're recording for context, you know, they've ordered the declassification
of the you know, John F. Kennedy assassination remaining r FK.
Martin Luther King Junior. So that a big move and
I kind of was hoping the same thing. I didn't
want to ask the question, but you know, Jesus if
(49:02):
you're going this far, you know, keep going. There's other
things we want you to declassic.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, does that you know, if we don't hear anything,
is that the uncomfortable truth that there's there is nothing right.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Or there's something they can't they don't want to talk
about it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. We are certainly
living in interesting times, vastly different times than when we
all started doing this.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, so I'm I'm glad about that. It's so much
more open to discuss and uh people. The bottom line
is all of this information coming out gives people the
courage to speak who never would before. So pro or
(49:50):
con with these whistleblowers, true or not, the perception is, well,
if that guy has everything to lose and he's going
on TV, then I can tell my story.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yeah, so that's importantly.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
That certainly is a is a positive. So another question
I have, you know, when are we getting back together
to go to Pure City and Pine Bush and then
do some sky watching.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I would love to as soon as possible.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
All right, Yeah, there's a great restaurant in Pine Bush,
Pure City Vegetarian. I mean, it's an actual restaurant. I
can order anything on the menu that doesn't that happens rarely.
And then we just sit on a field somewhere and
watch the sky. It's great.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I'm in on this one.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
I haven't thought that yet, so I would even suggest,
if Brian's up for it, do we tape an episode
of Pure City.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Oh oh, I'm down. Get a little sky watching too.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, we get an omni wike. We put it in
the middle of the table.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yeah, I can pick stuff off the menu and there
you go.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
Chat Ryan, it's a fellow vegetarian, So twist my arm.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
All right, all right, we just we need to get
the okay with the Pure City there that they won't mind.
And I love it the Pure City episode and people
will be like, what does that mean? What is this pure?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
And then record up on the record during the SkyWatch.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Definitely, so mister Burns the time that oh it was
Vinny and Barb and Bob and I don't remember all
else who was there. We were, as you recall, we
saw those lights zig zagging over the field that night.
That was yeah, that was very interesting. And some people
(51:58):
who saw the photos, oh it's a no, no, no no,
this thing was zigzagging tight zigzags back and forth, up
and down. We could not judge the distance it was
over that cornfield, probably, but I can't say whether it
(52:18):
was tiny and two hundred feet it was large and
eight hundred feet away. I don't know, but that was
an amaze. I remember trying to get a better wrangle.
I think I was standing on top of a guardrail
post or something, balancing up there, and I got to
have my camera and I'm like, if I fall, don't
try to save me, save my camera. But yeah, things
(52:42):
are still to be seen there.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, it seems to be.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
I mean, hotspots traditionally never go completely dead. They ebb
and flow, and you know, as we've talked about, unfortunately,
the more development, the less endivity in general.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, I think we need to start a go fund
me page to raise money to buy a little plot
of land and pine bush. I mean that is our dream, right.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Yes, absolutely, Yeah, Vinnie still hates me to this day
because we were seriously talking about buying the very last
liver of land on Marshmallow Field, right down the road
from Angry Orchard. Yes, but I was in freelancing and
freelancing was not steady, so I opted out and he
(53:35):
hates me to this day.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Oh if we could have had a little just a
little patch of land, set up our chairs and watch
every night. Well, if anyone wants to donate land or
large sums of money, please get in touch with us,
because it's I'm fascinated and full of hope and anticipation
(53:59):
every time I go to Pine Bush because you know,
I don't expect something to happen, but there's a much
better chance of it happening there than just about anywhere
else in this area.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
And so it's it's continues to be an amazing, amazing place.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's a heck of a story. Really, I just, uh,
you know, I'll I'll dip out of being able to
pursue it to deal with you know, everyday life. But
when I get back into it, it's like, wow, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
So yeah, it's it's a story that you know, has
been told in.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Little pieces, little pieces, but not the whole.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
I don't know that you could tell the whole story.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
It's a is not known, I really do. I think
a lot of it is is not known. And yep,
and you know, I think we've talked about the town
dynamics that neither one of us were aware of before
this year that stretched back into you know, the twentieth century,
and how that might have might play a role in it,
(55:13):
so that we might be able to break through.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
The dynamics of we don't want to talk about this
stuff because it's it's bad and yeah, it's evil. We
don't want to talk about the evil whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
So I would I would tell people that going back
to Vinnie the you know Vinny has I mean, there
were a core of people that spent night upon night
out there. Vinnie, you know, is definitely one of them.
I think Vinnie was the most mobile. So he's been
you know, all over town at various places. And he'll
(55:52):
say to me when I bring up, you know, potentially
unnerving incidents that happened, or if somebody says like, I,
you know, I don't like it there or whatnot, and
he's like, man, I've never experienced anything like that. He's like,
it's been overwhelmingly positive for me, you know. And I
have to say it's that way for me too, Like
(56:13):
just like sheer excitement going up there.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, other than Indian Springs Road, it is very exciting.
I'm telling you.
Speaker 5 (56:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Don't you feel that there? Do you?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
I need to spend somehow spend more time on No.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You don't. I am not recommending it, but if you're
crazy enough to go, it's just something I go. You know,
my Spidey sense goes on full alert there. It doesn't
feel good, But every place else in Pine Bush, yes,
it's that excitement and anticipation.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Yeah, I'll go with you, mister Burns. I've never been there,
and I want to see, okay, but I want to
see that feeling, you know, or what's going on up there.
And I may regret that as I have in the
past other things, Yes, yeah, but I would be very
curious to see that area too, and and just to
see what kind of a feeling might be different for everybody.
(57:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
All right, I'll go. If you want to record, you know,
fifteen minutes of the show.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Okay, that sounds.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Good, all right, all right, I'll give you that much.
But if the equipment goes haywire and sparks start flying
out of the microphone where.
Speaker 5 (57:28):
The battery dies, the battery dies or something, all right,
So any other final things you want to mention talk
about put out a request for anything.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Oh boy, just well you were very kind and mentioned
my project at the start of the show. But you know,
I'll just say again, you know, just hoping to collect
as many reports as possible to add on to what
we know about the area and again trying to make
some conclusions and all a said and done, and you know,
(58:03):
anonymity is absolutely honored. You make the call as to
how you want your case to either be presented or
not presented. And and yeah, it's once again. The The
email address is peb Mysteries at gmail dot com and
the website is pine Bush Anomaly dot com. And my
(58:25):
buddy Vinnie has his pine Bush UFO Facebook page and
pine Bush Phenomena Facebook page. So the community is still
out there. And of course there is the museum in town.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
So oh yes, we love the museum. Love the museum
if you haven't. I recently, just a few weeks ago,
was talking to someone from Pinebush and I said, oh,
what do you think about the museum. Oh, yeah, there's
a museum. It's like didn't even really wasn't on her
(58:56):
radar and didn't really care about it. I'm like, oh
my god, it's a pine Bush UFO And paranormal Museum.
How but it's not everybody's cup of tea.
Speaker 5 (59:08):
Yes, yeah, and that's all right, that's all right, that's
all right.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
But yeah, so if you haven't been there, go there.
They have all Mike. You've done some events there and.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Planning one in the April right now. Oh great, neat
nothing written in stone yet as for a date or
a topic. But I was in touch with the director
there and he wants to do something, and so I'll
be back at the museum and not just as an exhibit.
All right.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, mister Burns. Always
a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, when, when it when, and if it ever warms
up there in the Northeast, we will be getting together
for dinner and a little skywatching.
Speaker 3 (59:58):
That sound wonderful.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I think we can you just schedule mister Burns for
like repeating.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Every other month.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know, we can volunteer, but I
would love that. No, it was great. I mean it's
always fun talking with you because you're just a wealth
and knowledge, but you're also a great guy to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
You bring a lot of enthusiasm to the field. And
you know you love what you do and that comes
through and you're also.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
I appreciate that. It's also just very easy to talk
to you and Linda. So it's been a blast as always.
And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to when the weather
warms up and getting in the car and heading up north.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
I'm ready. I'm ready for it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
All right, Mike, bring us out in your inimitable style.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Well, thank you to mister burns on behalf of Linda
and I. Thank you to all of our listeners, whether
you are new or bend with us from the beginning.
If you're new, you can catch up with all of
our podcast on any of your favorite podcast server. You've
been listening to UFO Headquarters in the meantime before we
get up the Pine bush, keep your own eyes on
the sky.
Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Hudson River Radio dot com a favorite among shut ins
and dogs.
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