Ep. 220: Anubis, Egyptian God of Death—With Charlie Larson

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason: Well, let's just get into it then. Why don't you please introduce yourself to (05:09):
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Jason: the audience and talk about your project? (05:13):
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Charlie: Yeah, I'm Charlie Larson, obviously, and I'm a teacher and a writer. (05:15):
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Charlie: I have been a, just about myself, I'm a practicing pagan and a witch. (05:21):
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Charlie: I've been going on, I don't even know how many years since I was a teen, (05:27):
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Charlie: two and a half decades or so. (05:30):
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Charlie: I've always had a passion for writing. When I was a child, I was kind of, (05:32):
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Charlie: I guess, shy and anxious child. (05:38):
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Charlie: And so I wasn't someone who was super confident going and talking to someone. (05:40):
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Charlie: And so at some point in time, I turned to writing as sort of a way to, (05:45):
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Charlie: I guess, express my thoughts. (05:52):
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Charlie: I had a lot of sort of adverse experiences in my childhood, and it was a way (05:54):
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Charlie: for me to kind of process things. (05:59):
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Charlie: And, you know, having a space to do that where you feel safe and confident in (06:01):
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Charlie: yourself was very helpful for me. And so it kind of started with that. (06:08):
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Charlie: And as I went along, I started kind of observing the world around me and writing (06:12):
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Charlie: about what I thought about that. (06:19):
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Charlie: So just picking kind of topics about the world or values or whatnot and kind of going off of that. (06:20):
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Charlie: And so I eventually I just developed a passion for words. (06:27):
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Charlie: And I, you know, I would spend a lot of time just kind of playing with words (06:30):
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Charlie: and taking parts of words and syllables and suffixes and everything like that (06:36):
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Charlie: and just kind of playing with them. (06:41):
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Charlie: And my grandfather, who my grandparents raised me, and so for all intents and (06:42):
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Charlie: purposes, he was my father. (06:47):
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Charlie: But my grandfather's family was from Sweden and he would teach me certain words and phrases. (06:48):
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Charlie: And so that just kind of grew in my love for language. And so when I went off (06:54):
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Charlie: to college, I continued with that. (06:57):
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Charlie: And I found my kind of my passion and calling calling in language and eventually language teaching. (06:59):
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Charlie: I got a master's degree in linguistics and my specialty was teaching English as a second language. (07:05):
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Charlie: And i then had (07:09):
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Charlie: a teaching career for a number of years and also did a lot (07:12):
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Charlie: of work with teacher training and so that just (07:15):
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Charlie: kind of grew my my love for teaching and writing and language and so at some (07:18):
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Charlie: point in time i became a part of certain groups online certain i don't want (07:23):
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Charlie: to call them like a coven of sorts but just a group of like-minded people who are mostly pagans and (07:31):
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Charlie: witches and occultists and had the chance to start writing and teaching there. (07:36):
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Charlie: And at some point in time, people, you know, people knew I was very much connected (07:41):
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Charlie: to Anubis and worked with them very closely. (07:46):
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Charlie: And at some point in time, someone was like, you have to write a book on this. (07:49):
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Charlie: And I started getting a lot of, a lot of people reaching out to me with questions (07:51):
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Charlie: about, you know, I'm getting these signs and messages and I have an interest (07:56):
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Charlie: in him, but I don't know what to do. I don't know where to start. (08:00):
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Charlie: So, you know, please, can you help me? (08:02):
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Charlie: And even to this this day, I get people who read an article that I wrote several years ago. (08:04):
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Charlie: I used to write for the Agora on Patheos and read one of my articles from several (08:09):
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Charlie: years ago and still email me with questions and things. (08:14):
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Charlie: So I thought about it for a long time and I thought, you know, (08:17):
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Charlie: I really might want to work on this project. And a number of years ago, I was at a (08:19):
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Charlie: a pagan, I guess, convention, conference of sorts. (08:25):
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Charlie: And there was a joint session between multiple publishers, Weiser being one (08:29):
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Charlie: of them and the other one, Llewellyn. (08:34):
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Charlie: And they kind of gave a joint talk on, here's how to get started if you ever (08:36):
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Charlie: want to write a book in this field. (08:39):
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Charlie: And I had a chance afterwards to kind of talk to both of them about my idea. (08:42):
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Charlie: And they were like, yeah, this is a great idea. We'll write up something, send it to us. (08:46):
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Charlie: We'll kind of go from there and so i did (08:51):
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Charlie: i started writing it and at some point in time my own (08:53):
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Charlie: sort of self-doubt kind of took over it (08:57):
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Charlie: happens so i shelved it for a number of years and i it just kind of sat and (09:00):
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Charlie: i never picked it up again but and this last year i decided you know what i (09:04):
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Charlie: really would like to do this and kind of at that time years ago i was in kind (09:09):
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Charlie: of a a rough patch in life and And I wasn't, (09:15):
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Charlie: I don't think, ready to take on a project like this. (09:18):
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Charlie: And so, but I've since kind of been out of that space and really worked hard on my healing journey. (09:21):
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Charlie: And I think it's been the right time for me to put this out there. (09:25):
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Charlie: So I have written this book about Anubis and really wanting, (09:28):
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Charlie: writing it because I would like to come from a space of wanting to share information (09:34):
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Charlie: about him because it's something I'm very passionate about, obviously. (09:37):
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Charlie: So that's kind of where I've gotten to. (09:41):
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Jason: That's great. Great. So why don't we talk about who Anubis is for people who (09:43):
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Jason: may not know or may not have a deep understanding of Anubis. (09:47):
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Jason: And I'm also curious what your unique take on Anubis is in the book. (09:50):
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Jason: But let's just start off with who Anubis is. (09:55):
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Charlie: Yeah. (09:57):
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Charlie: I think a lot of people recognize who Anubis is, whether they're really just kind of at large. (09:59):
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Charlie: I think a lot of people recognize who it is, even if they don't realize it, (10:06):
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Charlie: because you think of ancient Egypt and you see depictions of certain kind of classic images. (10:09):
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Charlie: You see, you know, things like the Ankh or the Eye of Horus or even Anubis. (10:13):
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Charlie: And even without recognizing it, you kind of may have an idea in your mind of (10:19):
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Charlie: who that is and maybe even associating him with death. (10:23):
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Charlie: Death but anubis so in (10:27):
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Charlie: ancient egypt around i would i think like (10:31):
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Charlie: 5 000 to 6 000 bce they (10:34):
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Charlie: started to associate jackals with (10:37):
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Charlie: death and um you know there's no way to (10:40):
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Charlie: know for sure why that started but one theory (10:43):
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Charlie: is that you know in early days people were just kind of buried kind of loosely (10:46):
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Charlie: in the ground or in the sand and so sort of i guess and again this is just a (10:53):
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Charlie: theory in desperation the jackals would dig up the bodies for (10:59):
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Jason: Food well they're. (11:03):
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Charlie: Carrying they're carrying (11:04):
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Jason: Animals right i mean like they would feast on bodies if they were left out like. (11:05):
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Charlie: Vultures right okay okay yeah they do hunt but again they are also very much (11:09):
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Charlie: a carrying animal if there's something already (11:14):
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Charlie: dead they'll take up the opportunity to just eat them and (11:17):
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Charlie: so one of these theories again is (11:20):
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Charlie: perhaps as a way to either appease (11:23):
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Charlie: the jackals or a means of saying protecting the dead people started i guess (11:26):
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Charlie: praying to them worshiping them talking to them in some way and so over time (11:34):
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Charlie: in the next couple thousand years we started seeing depictions of anubis as (11:39):
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Charlie: we kind of think of him classically, (11:43):
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Charlie: which is often either a seated jackal, often with black fur or skin, (11:45):
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Charlie: or also as a sort of human figure with the head of a jackal. (11:51):
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Charlie: And one thing is that we don't even know for certain if it's a jackal. (11:56):
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Charlie: Obviously, you know, art at that time was not realistic. (12:00):
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Charlie: And so we don't know if it's actually a jackal. We don't know if it's some kind (12:03):
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Charlie: of people speculate it could be an Ethiopian wolf, which was another animal that lived at that time. (12:07):
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Charlie: So in my book, I refer to it sometimes as a candid figure, because I don't want (12:12):
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Charlie: to just say this is it for sure, you know. (12:17):
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Charlie: But Anubis started as someone who was sort of the lord of the dead, (12:20):
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Charlie: someone who kind of presided over death in every sense of the word. (12:24):
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Charlie: And over time, Osiris, who began as a god of sort of civilization and agriculture (12:28):
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Charlie: and things like that, in one of the myths, he was murdered by his brother. (12:36):
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Charlie: There was this whole journey (12:42):
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Charlie: I tell the story briefly in my book, but there was this whole journey of bringing him back to life. (12:43):
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Charlie: And once he did, people, worshippers at the time kind of saw him as the new (12:47):
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Charlie: figure of sort of Lord of Death and Underworld. He kind of rose to that. (12:53):
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Charlie: And so Anubis' role, at least in people's minds, shifted a little bit to more (12:57):
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Charlie: specifically as because he was part of the process of bringing him back to life (13:01):
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Charlie: in that he invented embalming and mummification to preserve the body so that (13:05):
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Charlie: he could then be resurrected with magic. (13:10):
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Charlie: And so he then became seen as more of that role as embalmer mummifier. (13:12):
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Charlie: He also sort of presided over the weighing of the heart, which is a ceremony (13:18):
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Charlie: that was done after a person's death, (13:21):
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Charlie: where your heart, which represented your soul was weighed against the feather (13:24):
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Charlie: of Mott, which Mott was a, both a concept and a goddess of, of truth and sort (13:28):
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Charlie: of morality, I guess. Yeah. (13:35):
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Jason: That just as an aside, that for me is the most profound concept at all of egyptian (13:37):
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Jason: religion the weighing of the heart yeah absolutely. (13:41):
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Charlie: Yeah it's sort of at the the i guess at the heart of the spirituality because (13:44):
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Charlie: one of the things that people really strove for and this is kind of how their (13:51):
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Charlie: life was lived was so that they could at (13:54):
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Charlie: their death go into a place in the afterlife that was where (14:00):
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Jason: They could i guess. (14:04):
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Charlie: Live a live a good afterlife just you (14:06):
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Charlie: know be happy and content and so anyway (14:09):
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Charlie: he presided over that ceremony and he wasn't necessarily (14:12):
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Charlie: the one who passed judgment but he was the one who presided (14:15):
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Charlie: over the ceremony and was at the scale so another like (14:18):
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Charlie: i was saying earlier there are certain classic symbols that people associate with (14:21):
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Charlie: egypt another one of those might be scales as obviously (14:23):
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Charlie: not like bathroom scale but one of the scales that has the two equal (14:27):
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Charlie: sides that um so yeah but (14:30):
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Charlie: over time egypt has a very complicated history full of wars battles other nations (14:35):
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Charlie: coming and conquering egypt and so there's a lot of i don't want to say assimilation (14:43):
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Charlie: either for forced assimilation or blending of religions, (14:47):
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Charlie: of spiritual practices, and of deities. (14:53):
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Charlie: And the ancient Greeks and the ancient (14:56):
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Charlie: Romans really, I don't want to say adopted Anubis, but kind of did. (14:59):
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Charlie: The Greeks blended the concept of Anubis and Hermes, though that is sort of argued as a part. (15:04):
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Charlie: And the book where I talk about it could be the name Herminubis. (15:13):
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Jason: Yeah, Herminubis, yeah. (15:17):
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Charlie: Yeah, think of now as a blending of Anubis and Hermes might actually be a misinterpretation (15:18):
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Charlie: of Horus and Anubis, but that's another story. (15:24):
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Charlie: But they also invoked Anubis, both the ancient Greeks and the Romans, (15:27):
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Charlie: invoked Anubis alongside deities such as Hecate, (15:32):
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Charlie: who was a powerful goddess of witchcraft and magic in the underworld, (15:35):
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Charlie: for spells and magical practices, for divination purposes. (15:39):
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Charlie: And in ancient Rome, there was even sort of this occult following of necromancers (15:43):
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Charlie: who who sort of adopted Anubis as their central figure. (15:48):
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Charlie: And eventually, as Christianity took over, that was denounced. (15:54):
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Jason: But it's pretty metal. (15:56):
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Jason: Yeah, that's awesome. (15:59):
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Charlie: Exactly. But that's all of this is to say that he's a very complicated figure. (16:00):
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Charlie: He's not just the God of the dead. (16:04):
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Charlie: He's also associated with magic (16:06):
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Charlie: and divination and the sort of the secrets and mysteries of the world. (16:08):
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Charlie: And there's also a lot of touch points where he has connections with the sun, (16:13):
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Charlie: the stars, the moon, not to say that he has dominion over them, (16:17):
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Charlie: but there are connections there to say that. (16:21):
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Charlie: That and one thing i always think of is that essentially everything dies at (16:23):
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Charlie: some point death is one of those concepts that's very important because everything (16:28):
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Charlie: dies stars die off and eventually you know plants animals everything sort of (16:33):
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Charlie: dies and so that's even gods die if you read the myths of the world gods die (16:36):
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Charlie: so the buddha buddha say the (16:40):
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Jason: Same thing even the gods are impermanent yeah. (16:43):
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Charlie: Exactly yeah so yeah he's a very complicated fellow and is not You can't put him in just one box. (16:46):
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Jason: Okay, so what was it about Anubis that drew you to him in the modern world? (16:56):
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Charlie: That's a really good question for me. (17:03):
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Charlie: For me personally, as I've said, I've had a lot of adverse experiences in life. (17:08):
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Charlie: I've had a lot of great times, but I've had a lot of difficult times as well. (17:13):
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Charlie: And I see those, there's another, there's a whole chapter in my book talking (17:17):
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Charlie: about death as transformation. And it's a sort of metaphorical meaning of death, (17:22):
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Charlie: not a literal sense of death, though. (17:26):
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Charlie: Obviously, we have a literal sense of death. But there's also this metaphorical (17:28):
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Charlie: death has things when things die, quote unquote, die. (17:33):
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Charlie: There is often something that replaces that (17:37):
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Charlie: that may be better or necessary for (17:40):
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Charlie: change in your life and so you know you you lose (17:45):
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Charlie: jobs or go through a divorce or a death in (17:47):
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Charlie: the family that's a little more literal but then something else takes (17:50):
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Charlie: that place and so that's true for me as well i've had a lot of adverse experiences (17:54):
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Charlie: in life that changed me from one way or another and it was a sort of transformation (17:58):
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Charlie: and so i've had this theme throughout my entire life i'm also a scorpio with (18:02):
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Charlie: a lot of other scorpio placements in my chart so i it's sort of a topic for me i guess (18:09):
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Charlie: And i have come to realize i'm (18:15):
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Charlie: not just one particular thing i'm not i don't (18:19):
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Charlie: just work with egyptian deities i have other deities that (18:22):
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Charlie: i work with in life and other sort of of (18:25):
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Charlie: spiritual practices that i've adopted over (18:28):
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Charlie: the years and so to me (18:31):
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Charlie: that's what for me at least (18:34):
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Charlie: in my own world is that modernization because it's not i don't for me personally (18:37):
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Charlie: again there are people that do and this works wonderfully for them and it's (18:43):
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Charlie: a very fulfilling spiritual path but i don't just recreate kind of the way anubis (18:48):
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Charlie: was and the way that he was worshipped again there There are people that do, (18:52):
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Charlie: and it's a wonderful path for them. (18:55):
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Charlie: But for me personally, I sort of have seen him from a different light than that (18:56):
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Charlie: are based on my own personal experiences in life. (19:05):
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Jason: So tell us about that light then. (19:10):
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Charlie: Yeah. Yeah. (19:14):
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Charlie: One thing that always kind of comes to mind when I'm thinking about these things (19:16):
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Charlie: or writing about these things, and this is one thing I shared in the book, (19:21):
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Charlie: we don't live in the world that sort of Anubis was worshipped 2, (19:24):
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Charlie: 3, 4, 5,000 years ago. (19:31):
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Charlie: The world is vastly different now people are different (19:32):
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Charlie: values are different cultures are different languages have (19:35):
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Charlie: died entire civilizations have (19:38):
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Charlie: rose only to die off again (19:42):
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Charlie: and so all of that is to say that the gods i i think have changed too um that (19:45):
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Charlie: that's something that i is kind of an important concept to me and so you think (19:53):
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Charlie: of the world as it is now you have sort of modern (20:01):
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Charlie: modern technology and advances in (20:04):
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Charlie: so many ways just as a this might be a silly example but just as an example (20:07):
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Charlie: we have cars as a transportation now and so for me if i'm going on a road trip (20:13):
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Charlie: or something i might invoke anubis to protect me while i'm driving that's not (20:18):
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Charlie: something that would have been done you know obviously thousands of years ago but it might (20:22):
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Jason: Have been And done with carts and chariots and horses and whatnot. (20:26):
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Charlie: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, again, that's kind of a, it might be a silly example, (20:30):
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Charlie: but just simple things like that is, when I say a modern perspective, (20:36):
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Charlie: I try to look at it through the lens of the way the world is now. (20:41):
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Jason: So for somebody who is attracted to working with Anubis from a modern context, (20:45):
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Jason: whether that's within a set system that assesses the Egyptian gods like obviously (20:51):
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Jason: Thelema or Golden Dawn or Kemetic, some of the more African traditions, (20:58):
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Jason: of course, also work with the Egyptian gods. (21:04):
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Jason: Or for somebody who's just a pagan and is eclectic and works with all types (21:06):
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Jason: of deities, as it sounds like you are, why would you approach Anubis and how would you do it? (21:11):
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Charlie: Great question. (21:16):
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Charlie: You know, as I've said just a minute ago, death is a very persistent theme, (21:19):
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Charlie: whether you think about it or not. (21:26):
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Charlie: It's a sort of persistent theme. And I mean both as a literal sense and also (21:29):
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Charlie: a metaphorical sense with the meaning of transportation. (21:34):
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Charlie: Everyone goes through some kind of change in life. (21:37):
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Charlie: There's not necessarily always bad, but there's always something in life that changes you. (21:40):
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Charlie: And I think that it can be a, of course, people are very self-reliant and want (21:47):
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Charlie: to go through things and be confident and kind of go through it themselves. (21:55):
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Charlie: Selves. But there are times where (21:59):
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Charlie: There are times you may want kind of someone to guide you through that or be (22:04):
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Charlie: a sort of a touch point or a touch person, whether that be an actual person (22:09):
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Charlie: in your life or a deity, where you want someone to kind of guide you through that. (22:13):
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Charlie: And Anubis can be that figure. He's also someone who can be very protective. (22:19):
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Charlie: If you feel like you need protection, I feel like Anubis is a very strong presence. Okay. Okay. (22:24):
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Jason: Okay. (22:30):
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Charlie: Yeah. And if you're interested in any sort of, there's a multitude of deities, (22:31):
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Charlie: even within the Egyptian pantheon that do this, but if you ever are interested (22:36):
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Charlie: in kind of the deeper mysteries of the world, whether that be, (22:40):
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Charlie: you know, divination, magic, knowledge, (22:43):
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Charlie: there are a lot of ways that you can access that through Anubis. (22:44):
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Charlie: One of his epithets that you'll find for a lot of the Greek deities that they (22:50):
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Charlie: actually kind of assigned to him is Keeper of Keys, (22:54):
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Charlie: which you find with other dynasties such as Hecate and so if you have any interest (22:57):
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Charlie: in that kind of accessing knowledge or magic that's a very good way to to start (23:02):
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Jason: Interesting interesting yeah because I suppose maybe I'm just more you know (23:08):
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Jason: I'm just uh baked in with some of the just the traditional golden dawn stuff (23:14):
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Jason: but I would always go to Thoth for for knowledge but so Anubis. (23:17):
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Charlie: Is tough but because i think of oftentimes more learning sorts of things learning studying (23:27):
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Charlie: knowledge in that sense is what i associate with toth but anubis is i guess (23:39):
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Charlie: not necessarily the the master of that holds dominion over knowledge but i think (23:43):
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Charlie: is kind of the the gate i don't want to say gatekeeper because that means you (23:49):
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Charlie: can't access it but um sort of the the guardian of that gate the holder of the key to that (23:53):
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Jason: That gateway to knowledge interesting one (23:58):
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Jason: thing that i've noticed with working with with deities (24:01):
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Jason: including it even sometimes particularly ancient ones (24:04):
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Jason: is as you work with them you start to notice the (24:08):
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Jason: energetic resonances that exist in the modern world that are along the same (24:11):
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Jason: lines of energy so for instance you may be working with a deity and And then (24:16):
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Jason: maybe you see a movie or there's a character in a movie which perfectly embodies it or a pop star or. (24:22):
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Charlie: You know an experience that you have i'm wondering if there are any resonances (24:30):
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Jason: In in modern culture that you found that are very in line with anubis. (24:33):
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Charlie: Yeah that's a great question i you know i find it sort of speaking more broadly (24:36):
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Charlie: here i find it fascinating that there is it seems like in recent years some (24:44):
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Charlie: more interest in and again this is sort of uh (24:49):
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Charlie: more sort of a more fantasy approach to magic and witchcraft but there's so (24:53):
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Charlie: much more Or representation of magic and witchcraft these days, (24:58):
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Charlie: even TV shows, movies, films, books, all about that. (25:02):
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Charlie: And again, a lot of times it's much more a fantasy fiction sort of portrayal of it. (25:08):
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Charlie: But just the fact that people are more interested in it, I think there's more (25:14):
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Charlie: of an open acceptance of that than there used to be. (25:17):
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Charlie: And you even see depictions of Anubis. there's it started as a book by neil (25:21):
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Charlie: gaiman uh american gods which was then in recent years adapted into a tv show (25:27):
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Charlie: where it was controversial a controversial (25:33):
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Jason: Topic these days neil gaiman unfortunately yeah. (25:35):
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Charlie: I know he very much is but trying to think there's there have been a few book (25:39):
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Charlie: series where he was one of the the characters so yeah there's a lot of depictions of him in that (25:45):
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Charlie: way and i i've i feel (25:54):
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Charlie: like people as a (25:57):
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Charlie: whole in at least in the u.s where i (26:00):
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Charlie: live are starting to rethink their views on death because (26:03):
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Charlie: historically it's been a very taboo sort of topic um people really saw it as (26:06):
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Charlie: sort of this dark theme that you don't want to touch that you don't want to (26:12):
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Charlie: think about it invokes a lot of and obviously this is true no matter what it invokes a lot of (26:17):
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Charlie: deep feelings of grief but i think as a culture as a whole and maybe a little (26:24):
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Charlie: bit of a generalization people were very much that's not something i want to touch yeah (26:30):
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Jason: Uh yeah that's a really good point i mean in in and i'm curious what you're (26:35):
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Jason: seeing in whatever part of the u.s you happen to live in but i'm actually really (26:41):
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Jason: curious about that because this is something that comes up on the podcast a lot. (26:46):
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Jason: And I forget the author, but there's a very famous book from the fifties called (26:49):
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Jason: the American way of death, which talks about the death industry in America and how the. (26:53):
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Jason: How, how much death is hidden in America. (27:01):
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Jason: I don't know about, I don't know, Europe may be somewhat similar, (27:05):
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Jason: but I think America very much tries to sweep death under the carpet and pretend (27:07):
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Jason: we will all be young and live forever. (27:12):
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Jason: And this even gets down to, you know, embalming the dead, right. (27:14):
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Jason: Or, you know, kind of preparing them for presentation or simply cremating as (27:19):
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Jason: much more popular now, just keeping it out of sight. (27:23):
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Jason: And of course we, you know, unfortunately very often and sometimes have to keep (27:26):
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Jason: elders in nursing homes, you know, where they're out of sight, (27:30):
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Jason: out of mind. This is one of, you know, very tragic for everyone. (27:35):
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Jason: Um, and, and particularly for those who are, you know, left there and forgotten (27:38):
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Jason: by their children, you know, left to other people to take care of, (27:42):
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Jason: which is extremely sad, uh, but happens a lot. (27:45):
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Jason: And so, so this is something that comes up a lot. And I think that death is (27:48):
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Jason: of course at the core of spirituality. (27:52):
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Jason: You see a a lot of form and forgive me for kind of tangenting here, (27:55):
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Jason: but you see a lot of forms of American spirituality, like American Christianity, (27:58):
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Jason: which are very much based on prosperity in this life and living forever and Joel Osteen type thing. (28:03):
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Jason: And you travel in other countries, obviously Egypt, Egypt. (28:09):
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Jason: Let me get to Egypt in a second. I mean, you travel in India and you see death everywhere. (28:13):
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Jason: You travel in, I presume, Africa, the Caribbean, you see death everywhere, many other places. (28:17):
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Jason: Egypt we associate with death. And I think that that's one of the reasons why (28:24):
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Jason: people have a fascination with it. (28:29):
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Jason: But as I'm saying this, I'm also thinking that the fascination for ancient Egypt (28:31):
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Jason: in recent times really comes out of the Victorian England period where people (28:37):
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Jason: were already obsessed with death. (28:41):
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Jason: So I'm kind of wondering if maybe we also, not, not only does Egyptian religion, (28:43):
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Jason: as we know it have a lot of fixation on death, such as the things you've mentioned, (28:48):
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Jason: like the weighing of the heart, the Egyptian book of the dead. (28:52):
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Jason: But I wonder if we also see it through a Victorian lens that may perhaps over, (28:54):
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Jason: over read their fixation on death. (28:59):
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Jason: Presumably that was only one of many, many, many things about Egyptian religion. (29:03):
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Jason: So that's pretty pretty multi-pronged comment there, but I'm curious in the (29:07):
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Jason: overall question of attitudes, attitudes towards death. (29:11):
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Jason: So attitudes towards death that you've seen changing in your area and also attitudes (29:15):
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Jason: towards death in ancient Egypt. (29:20):
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Charlie: Yeah. I currently live in California, (29:22):
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Charlie: which is, I'm not originally from California group in the Midwest. (29:26):
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Jason: Um, I did the, I did the reverse. I grew up in California and moved to Texas. (29:30):
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Jason: So, uh, what are you Northern or Southern California? (29:34):
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Charlie: Right around the middle. I live in the Bay Area. (29:38):
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Jason: Oh, okay. Okay. All right. It's pretty specific. (29:40):
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Charlie: People argue over whether that's north or south, but that's another topic. (29:43):
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Jason: It's right in the middle. Yeah. Actually, I will, just as a tangent, (29:46):
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Jason: I don't want to get you off track, but I saw an article yesterday, (29:51):
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Jason: the official definition of apparently of when Southern California turns into (29:54):
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Jason: Northern California is when Vons turns into Safeway. (29:59):
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Charlie: I read that exact article yesterday. (30:02):
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Jason: Oh, you did? Okay. I saw it on. (30:04):
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Charlie: It was on Firefox, you know, they have (30:05):
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Jason: Those little recommended articles. (30:08):
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Charlie: It was one of them. Yeah. That's funny. (30:09):
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Charlie: I look at other cultures around the world who perceive death a little bit differently. (30:13):
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Charlie: I'm thinking particularly of Central America and Dia de los Muertos and kind of beyond that. (30:19):
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Charlie: That's just one particular holiday, but kind of beyond that where there's a (30:27):
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Charlie: lot of certain Eastern Asian cultures and spiritual practices where there's (30:31):
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Charlie: a lot of ancestral veneration, (30:38):
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Charlie: a lot of celebrating the lives of those that you've lost. (30:40):
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Charlie: And, yes, there's a lot of grief and a lot of heaviness that comes with it, (30:44):
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Charlie: but it's also seen from a perspective of celebrating this person and who they were. (30:48):
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Charlie: And you were mentioning that there's a lot of trying to push away death in the U.S. and U.S. culture. (30:54):
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Charlie: And you were talking about that sort of embalming upon a person's death. (31:03):
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Charlie: And I was just thinking of, we even have this sort of pre-embalming thing where (31:09):
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Charlie: people just try to live as long as they can. (31:13):
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Charlie: And obviously, if that's what you'd like to do, that's great. (31:15):
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Charlie: But there's all of these practices people have just trying to look young forever (31:19):
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Charlie: and trying to live forever. And that's fascinating to me to look to look at that. (31:23):
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Charlie: And but I feel like the more people I talk to, the more I feel like people I (31:29):
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Charlie: hear a lot of instances where people have more of a celebration of life. (31:35):
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Charlie: I have a lot of friends and people that I've known who, instead of having a (31:39):
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Charlie: traditional funeral for their father, will have like a remembrance celebration of some kind or a, (31:46):
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Charlie: I don't want to say celebration because it sounds like it's a great thing, (31:51):
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Charlie: but, you know, a sort of memorial. (31:55):
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Jason: Yeah, yeah. (31:57):
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Charlie: Memorial. Yeah, exactly. So, and I also like what you were mentioning about (31:58):
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Charlie: ancient Egypt, because I think the automatic association with ancient Egypt (32:03):
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Charlie: is death, because obviously it was a very important theme in their lives. (32:07):
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Charlie: And something i think just as kind of we do everyone thinks about to some degree (32:13):
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Charlie: but that's not the only thing they had the (32:18):
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Charlie: egyptian culture had so many innovations with (32:21):
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Charlie: astronomy and with things that we might think of being mundane agriculture like (32:25):
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Charlie: just to think of how or architecture just like look at the temples and pyramids (32:32):
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Charlie: and how people built them and perhaps Perhaps there was a spiritual purpose behind building them, (32:36):
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Charlie: but just the mundane aspect of it, of how they managed to do that, (32:41):
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Charlie: is fascinating and something to really admire. (32:47):
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Charlie: And with agriculture, being in a desert, how you manage to grow crops and sustain them, (32:52):
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Charlie: and a lot of the civilizations were near the Nile River, which would flood annually (32:58):
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Charlie: and leave this very fertile ground. um i've heard (33:03):
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Jason: Something about that that the pyramids and (33:07):
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Jason: i think this was this was one of the kind of like renegade (33:10):
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Jason: archaeologist people like you know kind of graham hancock (33:13):
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Jason: world not him but another another guy like that said that (33:16):
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Jason: and i thought this was fascinating i think this may be true the pyramids (33:20):
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Jason: were apparently built in in alignment to orion and that a lot of egyptian agriculture (33:23):
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Jason: was fixated around the star Sirius because they figured out that they could (33:31):
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Jason: track the flooding of the Nile based on the movement of Sirius in the sky somehow. (33:37):
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Jason: Exactly right. Oh, it is. Okay. (33:43):
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Charlie: Well, at least from obviously there are (33:45):
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Charlie: sometimes disagreements between the meaning of things and you know if different (33:50):
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Charlie: historians and archaeologists have different perspectives but that's absolutely (33:54):
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Charlie: 100 the same thing i've heard and fun fact one of the associations with the (33:57):
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Charlie: serious star which has also been known as the dog star okay okay yeah can (34:02):
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Jason: We talk about that can we just like i want to like you know footnote that real (34:09):
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Jason: quick so talk about the association between anubis at the dog star in syria (34:12):
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Jason: because that's It's obviously super, super cool. (34:17):
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Charlie: Yeah. I can't say that I'm an expert on the historical aspect of it, (34:20):
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Charlie: but part of this with the rising of the Sirius star in the night sky was correspondent, (34:27):
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Charlie: at least from my understanding and remembrance of it, corresponded to the annual flooding of the Nile. (34:37):
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Charlie: And it was kind of seen as the period where you could really focus on growing crops. (34:42):
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Charlie: And so it was this sort of, I guess, transformation between periods of when (34:49):
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Charlie: seasonal changes, I guess you can say. (34:56):
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Charlie: And I think, again, the theme of transformation and cycles can be connected to Anubis. (35:00):
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Charlie: But i can't this is the part that i unfortunately can't recall there's a connection (35:09):
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Charlie: with the serious star and being a dog-like figure i can't remember there is (35:13):
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Charlie: a constellation of i think it's canis canis (35:19):
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Jason: Yeah i can't as mine canis major minor canis. (35:24):
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Charlie: Major canis minor i can't remember if serious is part of one of those or not (35:26):
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Charlie: i wish i could recall that but (35:30):
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Jason: Yeah we should we should can we have jamie pull it up let me see let me i just (35:32):
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Jason: want to because i okay let's see, (35:38):
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Jason: sirius and canis okay so (35:40):
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Jason: sirius is a binary star system located in the (35:43):
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Jason: constellation canis major which is latin for (35:46):
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Jason: latin for greater dog it's a (35:49):
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Jason: and that is okay oh i said okay for some okay this is interesting for some reason (35:51):
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Jason: i thought sirius was in orion but it's not it says canis major is a prominent (35:56):
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Jason: constellation in the winter sky named after the dog that follows the huntest (36:00):
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Jason: hunter orion excuse me follows the hunter orion sirius is the brightest star in the night sky, (36:04):
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Jason: and and in is obviously the brightest in canis major that is really interesting (36:12):
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Jason: let me look up anubis real quick, (36:17):
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Jason: Oh yeah, Sopdet is the ancient Egyptian name of Sirius and its personification as an Egyptian goddess. (36:21):
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Jason: Known to the Greeks as Sothis, she was conflated with Isis as a goddess and (36:27):
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Jason: Anubis as a god. So there you go. (36:32):
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Charlie: Yeah it's funny you were mentioning the not (36:35):
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Charlie: funny but interesting that you're mentioning that the dog (36:38):
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Charlie: was following the hunter because sort of (36:42):
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Charlie: symbolically dogs have often been associated with being protectors and guides (36:45):
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Charlie: there are a lot of myths around the world where either a dog is seen as a protective (36:50):
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Charlie: figure that's a guide or is the guide for another deity i think Think of Hecate, (36:59):
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Charlie: for example, who is often associated with a pair of dogs protecting her. (37:05):
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Charlie: There are instances where the goddess Isis had a protector, which was Anubis, (37:09):
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Charlie: whether that be Anubis as a figure or Anubis portrayed as a dog. (37:17):
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Charlie: But I think that's another way that Anubis has become associated with protection (37:20):
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Charlie: and guidance because there's a lot of symbology and connections there. there that's (37:24):
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Jason: Interesting yeah and by the way anubis. (37:30):
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Charlie: If i'm (37:32):
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Jason: Correct was named anpu in egypt and anubis is the greek name is that right. (37:33):
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Charlie: That's correct yeah anubis is the greek name that we have i guess that also (37:37):
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Charlie: kind of stuck because there are a lot of connections between (37:44):
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Charlie: ancient greek and then later ancient rome there were some adaptations of words and (37:48):
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Charlie: names of gods and goddesses but i that's the (37:54):
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Charlie: name that i have sort of stuck with there are some some practitioners who will (37:57):
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Charlie: call them and i i guess i sort of do not i don't want to say arbitrarily but (38:03):
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Charlie: i think for me i don't necessarily have a distinction between when i do and don't But anyway, (38:08):
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Charlie: yeah, the Egyptians really started sort of writing things down through, (38:15):
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Charlie: you know, these pictograms where we had what we call hieroglyphics, (38:24):
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Charlie: but they were representational. (38:30):
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Charlie: Each one was representational of a sound. (38:32):
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Charlie: And the thing is, not every sound was written down. So certain vowels were left out. (38:35):
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Charlie: So it's been, there are some cases where it's a little bit left to interpretation (38:41):
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Charlie: of how exactly it was pronounced. (38:47):
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Charlie: Luckily, we have things such as the Rosetta Stone, (38:50):
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Charlie: not the language learning app, but the original Rosetta Stone, (38:55):
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Charlie: which was, if people aren't familiar with it, it was a stone that was discovered (38:59):
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Charlie: by, I think his name was Pierre, (39:03):
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Charlie: Francois Bouchard, I think, a Frenchman who discovered this stone that was written in three languages. (39:07):
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Charlie: And one was hieroglyphics, the other was demotic, which was the sort of shorthand (39:12):
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Charlie: form that evolved from the ancient Egyptian language, and then ancient Greek. (39:19):
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Charlie: And because people later on had a very solid understanding of ancient Greek (39:25):
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Charlie: and how things were pronounced and how things were written, they were then able, (39:29):
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Charlie: because it was the same thing written three languages they were (39:33):
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Charlie: able to interpret that and understand what the words meant (39:37):
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Charlie: and how they were a little bit about how they were pronounced and another (39:39):
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Charlie: another aspect the (39:44):
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Charlie: more modern or the (39:46):
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Charlie: evolved language coptic which over time (39:49):
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Charlie: evolved from ancient egyptian it's still used with (39:53):
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Charlie: coptic christians similarly to latin (39:56):
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Charlie: and a lot of i guess religious ceremonies (39:59):
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Charlie: there are you know revival efforts but (40:03):
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Charlie: more used ceremonially ceremonially i guess but all that's to say is that's (40:07):
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Charlie: how we came to understand more of how his name was pronounced again we're thousands (40:12):
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Charlie: of years removed from ancient egypt there's no guarantee that that's how it (40:16):
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Charlie: was pronounced but something akin to anpu was how his name would have just just (40:20):
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Jason: I just as an aside i just imagine you're some guy whose job it is to make like (40:24):
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Jason: translation blocks and they're just like you just think you have the worst, (40:28):
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Jason: most boring job in the world. (40:32):
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Jason: They're just making these blocks to like transliterate between languages for, (40:34):
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Jason: you know, who knows, maybe it was like a sign for a restaurant or something. I don't know. (40:37):
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Jason: And you're just like, yeah. And it's just like, little do you know, (40:41):
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Jason: this is literally the only, like this specific one that you're making is the (40:44):
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Jason: only reason why future humans will be able to understand your entire culture. (40:48):
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Jason: So it's like, you just never, you just never know how things are going to turn (40:53):
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Jason: out in the longterm. You know, it's pretty interesting. (40:56):
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Charlie: It is. It's funny you say that because they're actually, they've found (40:59):
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Charlie: what text documents of like a complaint letter some i think that one of them (41:04):
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Charlie: was this complaint about the quality of i can't remember if it was quality of (41:10):
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Charlie: water minerals of some kind but it was essentially a complaint letter but that's like trying (41:13):
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Jason: To that's trying to piece together our culture from yelp reviews or something (41:18):
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Jason: like that that's very funny yeah. (41:22):
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Charlie: Yeah another thing you (41:24):
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Charlie: were mentioning that actually first of all i would love to have that job (41:27):
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Charlie: by the way uh but we that's a (41:30):
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Charlie: lot of trust to put into one person like or you know select few people and over (41:33):
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Charlie: the years people have checked and double checked and triple checked things and (41:38):
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Charlie: maybe have come to other conclusions about the meanings of things but you know (41:41):
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Charlie: that's a lot of trust to put in one person that they were accurate yeah (41:45):
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Jason: It's also insane how stone seems to be one of the only things that actually (41:50):
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Jason: survives which suggests that you know the only thing that's going to survive (41:54):
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Jason: from our period is going to be the georgia guide stones or something like that so. (41:58):
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Charlie: Yeah um and i can't even guarantee that the digital world will last forever (42:01):
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Charlie: oh definitely those little floppy disks have gone extinct now and unless you've (42:08):
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Charlie: somehow managed to transfer data over oh wait i'm (42:14):
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Jason: Sorry the georgia guide stones were destroyed i forgot about that somebody blew (42:17):
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Jason: it up in 2022 so So there will be no record of our, of our civilization, (42:21):
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Jason: but yeah, digital, I mean, it's like, you know, even with, you know, (42:25):
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Jason: for me, even keeping my files consistent from my own lifetime. (42:29):
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Jason: I mean, I have a, I have network attached storage with, you know, (42:35):
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Jason: 30 terabytes of drives in a tape drives or something in it, but keeping data (42:39):
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Jason: backed up and not succumbing to bit rot is like really hard. (42:44):
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Jason: And it's funny, you know, I, I moved a few, I moved to Texas (42:49):
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Jason: this is like four years ago or something and I got a bunch of my stuff out of storage and (42:52):
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Jason: I had all these floppy disks the little ones and the big ones you know the five (42:55):
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Jason: inch ones from back in the 80s and it's just like you can't get information (42:59):
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Jason: off of floppy disks and it's well it's very very hard to get information off (43:04):
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Jason: of the plastic the the thick plastic floppy disk but the old ones, (43:09):
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Jason: forget it forget it you know and and those were I remember when those were an (43:14):
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Jason: advance over tape drives. (43:20):
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Jason: Everything used to be, computer data used to be on a reel to reel tape. (43:23):
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Jason: And it's like, even those big floppy ones, outside of taking them to a specialist (43:27):
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Jason: lab that has super expensive equipment, you can't get data off them anymore. (43:32):
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Jason: And so data is not permanent at all. And things being in the cloud, forget it. (43:37):
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Jason: I mean, a cloud provider can go down or and it's just like, you know, (43:42):
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Jason: the way that they manipulate they I mean, whoever they is, but the way that (43:45):
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Jason: the digital world is now, you know, you and I were able to humans have a long memory. (43:48):
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Jason: You and I were able to identify that we both read the same article yesterday. (43:54):
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Jason: In a week, we're going to forget that article existed. (43:59):
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Jason: It's like everything is memory hold within 48 hours these days. (44:02):
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Jason: It's like the news cycle moves so fast now that it's hard to remember even what (44:07):
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Jason: happened a few weeks ago. (44:13):
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Jason: And so, yeah, the idea that this is one of the reasons why books are so critical (44:15):
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Jason: because books I think will survive longer than digital and absolutely. (44:20):
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Charlie: Uh you know (44:25):
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Jason: Particularly hardbacks and that's why occult publishing is so important and (44:25):
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Jason: why all publishing is really. (44:29):
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Charlie: Important but yeah (44:30):
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Jason: I mean it's it's kind of an insane thing yeah. (44:31):
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Charlie: And I still it's a little bit of a mixture between being modern and sort of (44:34):
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Charlie: digital but also a little bit at sort of old school, I guess. (44:41):
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Charlie: I love having books. I wish I... I do have a number of e-books just because (44:45):
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Charlie: spacing issues is a thing. (44:50):
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Charlie: And I don't have an infinite amount of space to have books. (44:52):
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Charlie: But I still love holding a book in my hands. I feel like I really... (44:55):
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Charlie: I can't even, maybe it's all psychological, but there's something about holding (45:02):
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Charlie: a book in front of you and reading it that I retain the information more than reading it on a screen. (45:05):
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Charlie: And maybe that's all psychological, but the same with writing. (45:11):
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Charlie: I love, obviously, I'm not going to write a whole 240 some page book by hand, (45:15):
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Charlie: but I still love journaling and doing things by hand. (45:21):
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Charlie: I feel like there's a lot more there's something magical and energetic about (45:24):
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Charlie: putting the the act of writing with your hand and putting that onto paper absolutely (45:31):
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Charlie: yeah that's not to say you can't do that with a (45:36):
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Jason: Computer well it goes it goes straight from the the mental world into the physical (45:39):
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Jason: it's automatically manifesting in the physical whereas with the computer it's (45:44):
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Jason: going into an intermediary holding space which is technically physical of course but is is like (45:47):
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Jason: writing on literally writing on sand silicone yeah so one. (45:53):
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Charlie: Other thing that ties into modernization though i think there are a lot there's (45:57):
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Charlie: a lot of value in the technical technological world (46:04):
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Charlie: that can be applied to spiritual practices think of i think of me i've been (46:10):
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Charlie: able to connect with people literally all over the world (46:15):
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Jason: That i would. (46:17):
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Charlie: Never have had the chance to if it wasn't for the world (46:19):
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Jason: Of the internet absolutely i mean this podcast i get to talk to somebody every (46:22):
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Jason: week you know or multiple times a week who you know and and we would never been (46:26):
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Jason: have been able to connect before so it's really it's really an incredible time (46:30):
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Jason: but yeah you know but yes it can go away, (46:34):
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Jason: and you know there's so much of old cultures that we don't know and of course (46:38):
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Jason: we i think we associate with the egyptians with death because we found their (46:42):
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Jason: burial stuff of course you know know, and mummies and all that, (46:45):
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Jason: but clearly there, there was much more to their society than that. (46:50):
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Charlie: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. (46:54):
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Charlie: I think one thing I don't want to say that people at large forget this, (46:57):
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Charlie: but I always want to keep in my mind that everyone that all of every single (47:02):
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Charlie: mummy or body that you find was once a person and was once a soul and had a (47:09):
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Charlie: personality and had a life and people that they loved and had passions and interests. (47:15):
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Charlie: Interests i think there is a danger of (47:18):
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Charlie: seeing them as objects that (47:21):
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Charlie: are kind of empty and meaningless and i'm not trying i don't i don't mean to (47:25):
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Charlie: say that most people do but i anytime i you know i go to a museum or a showing (47:29):
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Charlie: of some kind and i see one i try to keep that in mind and really approach them (47:35):
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Charlie: from a way of respect for that (47:39):
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Jason: Did you um just (47:43):
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Jason: as a as another dark side here i forget what (47:46):
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Jason: it's called but there was it was (47:49):
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Jason: called either mumia or mummer something like (47:52):
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Jason: that there used to be an extremely prized (47:55):
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Jason: color that was just ground up mummy (48:00):
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Jason: for paint like they would grind up the (48:02):
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Jason: bodies and turn it into a paint and and there were just hundreds (48:05):
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Jason: of of mummies that were presumably salvaged from (48:09):
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Jason: egypt a lot of times by thieves and then (48:12):
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Jason: turned into paint and now you can't get it at all anymore it's it's lost obviously (48:15):
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Jason: because you can't get mummies anymore but there was like this whole black market (48:20):
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Jason: trade of mummies just to make this pigment which is just insane imagine yeah (48:23):
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Jason: imagine being like you said like a soul guy having all these interests all that (48:27):
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Jason: and then it's like yeah you're just gonna you're gonna be paint pigment i guess. (48:30):
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Charlie: You are sort of memorialized in a way through art but that's very dark i've (48:35):
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Charlie: heard of that but i can't think of what i can't remember what it is yeah i can't remember the name of it (48:41):
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Charlie: I think there's better ways to memorialize someone than turning them into paint. (48:46):
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Charlie: Right. But that's another story. (48:51):
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Jason: So for somebody who's, well, sorry, it looked like you were mid-thought. (48:53):
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Jason: I don't want to cut off your thought process. (48:57):
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Charlie: No, I had a thought a moment ago, and now I've lost it. (49:00):
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Jason: Well, I was going to ask you, for somebody who wants to work with Anubis in a modern context, (49:04):
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Jason: you know, just somebody like us or a pagan, you know, somebody who's a pagan (49:09):
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Jason: of some type or a spiritual person, who is, you know, has the proclivity of (49:13):
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Jason: doing things like working with gods. (49:18):
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Jason: How would they go about that? And what would the, what would the approach be? (49:20):
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Jason: You know, what type of ritual would you recommend and what type of aspects of (49:25):
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Jason: life would you recommend working with that deity in regards to? (49:31):
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Charlie: Yeah. So a couple of things on that. (49:36):
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Charlie: One thing that i think is (49:40):
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Charlie: very important to remember a few things that are (49:44):
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Charlie: important to remember one is there's (49:47):
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Charlie: no right or wrong way to do something there are there's a there are a lot of (49:51):
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Charlie: traditions where you know they have certain things that are i don't want to (49:57):
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Charlie: say prescriptive but just a kind of a guidelines of these are kind of some steps (50:01):
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Charlie: that you can take but for my own (50:06):
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Charlie: perspective, and again, this is just from my own experiences and the way that I work with deities, (50:10):
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Charlie: I like to tell others that there's, if you don't know where to start, (50:16):
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Charlie: if you're kind of lost of what do I do, I think that there's no right or wrong way to do something. (50:20):
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Charlie: And this leads me to my second point is that intention, I think, (50:26):
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Charlie: really, really matters a lot. (50:30):
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Charlie: I have found, from my perspective, that Anubis does not necessarily care if (50:33):
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Charlie: you have the right color of candle or if you have the $150 statue that you found online. (50:42):
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Charlie: What matters more than anything, and if you have nothing to start with, (50:49):
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Charlie: tools around you, that's okay, because what's inside and what your intention (50:53):
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Charlie: is matters more than anything. (50:58):
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Charlie: And so I think one thing to start with can be meditation or even prayer. (51:01):
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Charlie: I think, though, I think there are a lot of people that have, that can. (51:08):
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Charlie: I don't want to say everyone, but I think some people have a negative association with prayer. (51:12):
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Charlie: Perhaps that comes from religious upbringings or backgrounds. Maybe not. I don't know. (51:18):
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Charlie: But prayer can be, I think, a powerful tool. It's a way I don't, (51:24):
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Charlie: I like to use the word conversation. (51:29):
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Charlie: I have a lot of conversations with Anubis and obviously that's not me standing (51:31):
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Charlie: face to face with someone or on a zoom call with someone that's me sort of speaking (51:35):
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Charlie: to speaking to Anubis, but not as a figure right in front of me, (51:40):
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Charlie: but just kind of openly and honestly, (51:44):
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Charlie: I, I don't always, when I'm working with him, have things written down of what I want to say. (51:47):
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Charlie: I don't always have a certain prayer or a certain written chant or something (51:53):
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Charlie: written down. A lot of times it's from the heart. (51:57):
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Charlie: And I think that can be incredibly, incredibly powerful is having something (51:59):
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Charlie: that in the moment you're feeling something and have something that you want to say and share. (52:04):
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Charlie: Speaking openly and honestly about that, I think can be a very powerful experience. (52:10):
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Jason: Yeah, I agree with you. I think, and I've certainly found that not necessarily (52:14):
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Jason: with Anubis, but with working with, you know, higher intelligences in general (52:19):
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Jason: and from the heart, for whatever reason, from the heart is critical, (52:22):
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Jason: uh, for whatever reason, speaking out loud appears to be really critical. I don't know why. (52:27):
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Charlie: Uh, yeah, totally. (52:33):
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Jason: I don't know why, but it seems to be very important. And humility, (52:35):
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Jason: of course, is really important. (52:39):
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Jason: And those, those are often things that ritual gets in the way of, (52:41):
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Jason: because you can get people, even the Bible talks about this, (52:45):
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Jason: you know, even Jesus says like, Like, yeah, these people doing all the elaborate (52:48):
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Jason: rituals, but they don't mean it in their heart. (52:51):
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Jason: That's not what I want. I want a simple prayer from the heart. (52:53):
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Jason: And I think that that's true across the board in my experience. Absolutely. (52:56):
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Charlie: I think there's a sort of... (53:01):
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Charlie: There's a lot of... (53:06):
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Charlie: I guess you could use the phrase keeping up with the joneses there's a lot of people that (53:09):
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Jason: There's a lot of people want to keep up with parents yeah no (53:15):
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Jason: absolutely and it's like if you were a god do you really think that you would (53:18):
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Jason: care or even maybe not even care it's like do you think you would even notice (53:23):
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Jason: like whatever stuff somebody had you know exactly i will do a counterpoint to (53:27):
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Jason: that though which is sometimes when you get magical instructions for assembling (53:34):
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Jason: a kit to do a ritual, assembling the tools themselves turns out to be really (53:38):
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Jason: important for the person because a, it can embed, (53:44):
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Jason: you know, like for instance, I spent a year making an Enochian table, right? (53:49):
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Jason: And in doing that, it embedded that system within my psyche at a really deep (53:54):
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Jason: level because I worked it with (53:58):
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Jason: my hands and it's like a three dimensional mandala, but it transformed me. (54:00):
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Jason: Also, I often find that when you know, if you're looking for some specific component or ingredient, (54:05):
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Jason: it will often lead you on some insane quest in which you meet somebody that (54:11):
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Jason: becomes very full, you know, says something that's really, you know, (54:16):
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Jason: you meet an important person or you have an experience that you wouldn't normally, (54:19):
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Jason: you know, I've had experiences just hiring people to teach me metalworking to (54:22):
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Jason: make a magical tool or something that were incredible formative life experiences. (54:27):
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Jason: And it wasn't the magical tool. (54:31):
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Jason: It was the fact that, for instance, you know, if I spent a year making a magical (54:33):
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Jason: tool with a metalsmith, it's like it wasn't the tool. (54:38):
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Jason: It was my interactions with those person that matured me where I got wisdom (54:42):
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Jason: from that older person and also the patience of just committing to spending (54:46):
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Jason: a year working a piece of metal. (54:50):
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Jason: And it wasn't necessarily about the tool. And I don't think that the tool suddenly (54:53):
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Jason: makes magical portals open. (54:57):
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Jason: But the process of going through that attuned me to something. (54:58):
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Jason: Thing and so i think that that can be important but in terms of yeah if i was (55:02):
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Jason: a god would i care if somebody had the right stuff i i don't know you know i (55:07):
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Jason: don't know if i would even notice. (55:11):
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Charlie: Yeah no i think there is something to be (55:13):
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Charlie: said about i don't know (55:16):
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Charlie: if you necessarily would call it a devotional act but (55:19):
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Charlie: any kind of craft that you do whether that's witchcraft or some sort of creation (55:22):
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Charlie: of something but the journey as you kind of as you alluded to the journey is (55:27):
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Charlie: really important and the intention behind it that I'm creating something for (55:32):
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Charlie: a purpose either as a magical tool or there I know people who (55:36):
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Charlie: From essentially scratch from clay to create these beautiful statues that started (55:42):
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Charlie: from something that may seem so simple or nothing, but just the actual the end (55:48):
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Charlie: product is important and it's beautiful, (55:53):
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Charlie: but also the act of creating it is magical in itself. absolutely (55:56):
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Jason: Well that is from the heart you know that is from the heart but (56:00):
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Jason: extended over a long period of time and anchored in time as an object and so (56:03):
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Jason: i think the thing that trips people up is like reading something off a page (56:07):
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Jason: and kind of going through the road with wrote of something and saying why didn't (56:12):
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Jason: you know it's like they're they're missing the spirit of the thing yeah. (56:16):
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Charlie: And i think that's where people (56:21):
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Charlie: really value instructions on things if you really don't know where to start (56:24):
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Charlie: on something i can't just start i just can't do something i i want someone to (56:31):
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Charlie: at least get me started with it and that's kind of what i want to allude to in the book is that (56:35):
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Charlie: start with something even if it's just simply having conversations or prayer (56:44):
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Charlie: or meditation and And as you go deeper and build from that, there are things you can do. (56:48):
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Charlie: You can do spell work and magic witchcraft, however you want to call that. (56:53):
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Charlie: And you may find specific tools that you want to use. And those are important. (56:59):
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Charlie: I don't want to just grab something willy-nilly and use it. (57:06):
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Charlie: Because if you get into things like working with crystals or herbs or things (57:10):
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Charlie: like that, each one has its own energy and its own property. (57:15):
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Charlie: So you want to be mindful of that. (57:18):
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Charlie: But I think all of that develops over time. (57:20):
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Charlie: And I really hope through writing this book that people understand that even (57:23):
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Charlie: just starting with something so basic can be really profound and powerful. (57:29):
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Charlie: And that's if that's all you ever want to go into. That's OK. (57:33):
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Jason: Yeah, I know that, you know, I, you know, Londa Kat always says, (57:36):
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Jason: you know, he would make magical tools out of just like construction paper. (57:41):
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Jason: And somebody would say it's like how because there's nothing magical about (57:45):
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Jason: construction paper and he he has a line which is and i (57:48):
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Jason: love a lot he says you know if you if you can't make (57:52):
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Jason: a piece of paper magical that you're (57:55):
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Jason: you know you can't make anything magical it's like it comes from within you (57:58):
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Jason: you have to assign significance to it and so i and i definitely think that i'm (58:01):
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Jason: definitely of the just start just do it school because you can definitely get (58:06):
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Jason: into a a dead end trying to do things right, (58:11):
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Jason: quote unquote, you know, reading all the books, getting all the material that (58:15):
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Jason: can last forever and you can never do magic. So, yeah. (58:19):
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Charlie: Yeah. And it can be a little daunting and overwhelming, I think, (58:23):
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Charlie: to, to have, to feel like you have to do it the right way, to feel like you (58:26):
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Charlie: have to get it right the first time, I think, I (58:31):
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Charlie: And another completely different scenario, if you want to develop a skill or (58:37):
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Charlie: craft in something, you make mistakes. And that's part of the learning journey. (58:41):
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Charlie: And I think that's that can be true in a spiritual practice. (58:46):
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Charlie: Or if you get into any kind of magical practice, then you're bound to make mistakes. (58:50):
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Charlie: And that's okay. That's part of the journey. (58:56):
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Jason: That's great. That's, that's as good as it's good Bay area attitude, (58:58):
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Jason: you know, like mistakes are good. That's great. Yeah. (59:00):
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Jason: And I feel the same way. I feel the same way. Absolutely. You know, (59:04):
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Jason: maybe not working with demons or something like that. (59:07):
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Jason: You might want to mind your watch your step there, but not that people should (59:09):
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Jason: not, not that I think that people really should do that. (59:13):
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Jason: I don't think there's really a whole lot of benefit there, but as opposed to (59:16):
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Jason: working with gods, but let me ask you this. (59:19):
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Jason: Do you feel that the Egyptian gods are very much living gods still. (59:22):
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Charlie: Yeah um i absolutely i mean first of all the short answer is absolutely (59:26):
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Charlie: i think there can be i don't know if i would call it a danger or it can be easy to see them as (59:34):
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Charlie: far off and ancient (59:45):
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Charlie: and dead and not relevant because you (59:50):
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Charlie: look at other deities and other pantheons cultures have kind of continued and (59:55):
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Charlie: evolved but in a lot of cases in a lot of sense of the word the the the pharaohs (01:00:01):
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Charlie: and the empires of egypt had a stopping point other countries took (01:00:07):
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Charlie: over that was done that was it and so i think and again the world is so vastly (01:00:11):
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Charlie: different that i think there's a it's very easy to look at them and be be like (01:00:16):
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Charlie: they're something of the past but (01:00:21):
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Charlie: there are so many modern practitioners of various spiritual schools backgrounds (01:00:24):
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Charlie: that still work with there are entire organizations dedicated to isis just as (01:00:34):
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Charlie: an example but Anubis has a following. (01:00:39):
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Jason: There's one particular organization called ISIS that is somewhat problematic. (01:00:42):
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Charlie: Yeah, that name, unfortunately, has other connotations these days, but the goddess of ISIS. (01:00:48):
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Jason: Let me take a break for like two minutes and I'll be right back. (01:00:54):
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Charlie: Of course, absolutely. (01:00:56):
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Charlie: Okay. (01:01:00):
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Jason: One thing that I've been wondering about recently is how much, (01:01:01):
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Jason: if it's possible that some of the, you know, ancient Egyptian or 25th dynasty, (01:01:07):
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Jason: wherever it was left off, how much of that may have survived in Coptic Christianity (01:01:13):
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Jason: or maybe even Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity or other religions in that part of the world? (01:01:18):
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Jason: Because I don't think anything ever really truly goes away. way. (01:01:25):
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Jason: Egypt is a big country. Cairo is possibly the biggest city in the world. (01:01:27):
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Jason: Definitely one of the biggest cities. I believe it's bigger than Mexico city. (01:01:33):
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Jason: And I might be wrong about that, but I believe that's the case. It's just gigantic. (01:01:37):
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Jason: And obviously the monotheistic faiths have taken over in that part of the world. (01:01:42):
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Jason: But I wonder, I have to wonder how much of that is potentially still there and (01:01:48):
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Jason: may have syncretized with other religions. (01:01:54):
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Charlie: Yeah. I think one thing that keeps ancient Egypt kind of alive is what we can still see. (01:01:57):
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Charlie: The pyramids are thousands of years old. (01:02:07):
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Charlie: In fact, they were before the time of Cleopatra were already thousands of years old. (01:02:11):
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Charlie: So just the fact that they have stood so long is something that That stands out in people's minds. (01:02:16):
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Charlie: And also other things we're talking about. Remains of temples. (01:02:23):
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Charlie: And hieroglyphics. And things you find in museums. (01:02:27):
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Charlie: Rosetta Stone. We have artifacts and mummies. And so many things that. (01:02:31):
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Charlie: Even though they're from the past. Also do kind of keep it alive. (01:02:37):
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Charlie: And in the case of. Coptic Christianity. The language certainly. (01:02:42):
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Charlie: Is still. they'll it's the (01:02:47):
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Charlie: class linguists classified as a dead language like (01:02:50):
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Charlie: latin is because you don't really have native speakers that are born speaking (01:02:53):
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Charlie: it at least not as their first language for the most part so they'll classify (01:03:00):
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Charlie: it as a dead language but it's still like i would say i would argue very much (01:03:05):
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Charlie: alive because there's people that that learn it there are people that are talking (01:03:09):
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Jason: About coptic you're talking about coptic yes yeah well there's a coptic there's (01:03:12):
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Jason: a coptic church you know it's certainly biblical scholars learn learn coptic (01:03:16):
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Jason: i don't think it's that dead necessarily right. (01:03:20):
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Charlie: Well i i mean in the sense of using it every day as like a language at home (01:03:24):
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Charlie: okay uh that people learn but but (01:03:29):
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Charlie: you're absolutely right people study it people learn it people speak it (01:03:31):
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Charlie: And that keeps it alive, just as I would say the art and architecture has. (01:03:35):
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Charlie: And that kind of keeps it in people's minds. And I think there's a mystery and (01:03:44):
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Charlie: a fascination with Egypt. (01:03:49):
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Charlie: When I was a kid, I was kind of a nerdy kid, and I loved to go to the library (01:03:52):
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Charlie: and pick up what they called. They were, I think, called eyewitness books. (01:03:55):
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Jason: Yeah, I remember those, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. yeah. (01:03:59):
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Charlie: There were these sort of encyclopedias on different topics and i would love (01:04:02):
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Charlie: to go pick them up and they had one on ancient egypt and i love i probably (01:04:05):
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Jason: I probably read the same one because i loved that stuff as a kid also the time (01:04:10):
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Jason: life unexplained encyclopedia of the unexplained man myth magic all that but (01:04:13):
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Jason: yeah those those those were those eyewitness books were great those were the (01:04:20):
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Jason: ones that were all white with kind of like diagrams and cut out showing how (01:04:22):
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Jason: things work right yeah yeah yeah. (01:04:26):
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Charlie: And little captions next to what the various things were and And yeah, (01:04:28):
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Charlie: there's so many documentaries now and they really, I mean, they find ways to (01:04:32):
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Charlie: really build up the mystery behind it. (01:04:38):
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Charlie: And I don't know, I think all of these things really kind of keep ancient Egypt (01:04:39):
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Charlie: alive in people's minds. (01:04:45):
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Jason: Are you of the belief that kind of the belief creates or is an energy in a sense (01:04:49):
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Jason: that creates creates gods that, that, you know, you know, a chaos magician would (01:04:55):
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Jason: say, you know, everything's an egregore really. (01:04:59):
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Jason: So gods are fed by the belief of their worshipers. So if you have, (01:05:01):
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Jason: you know, that's why, you know, for instance, (01:05:05):
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Jason: Christianity or, you know, Jesus or Allah have such a sway over our, (01:05:07):
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Jason: our world in an undeniable way, (01:05:12):
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Jason: but also gods like Ganesh, you know, the Hindu gods are worshiped by a billion (01:05:14):
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Jason: people and have been worshiped in continuity without break for at least 10,000 years. (01:05:19):
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Jason: Depends which god it is. But are you kind of of that opinion that belief fuels (01:05:25):
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Jason: the gods, for lack of a better way of putting it? (01:05:32):
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Charlie: I am probably somewhere between that and... (01:05:35):
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Charlie: I guess there's a word i'm trying to think archetypes you have not not to lump (01:05:41):
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Charlie: every deity under one thing because i do see deities as separate entities and spirits but i think also (01:05:49):
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Charlie: there are sort of archetypes you (01:05:59):
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Charlie: have even in egypt you had so (01:06:02):
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Charlie: many different deities that were associated with death and they're (01:06:04):
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Charlie: even more specific than that there were several (01:06:09):
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Charlie: similar candid deities whether they (01:06:12):
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Charlie: be jackals wolves however you want to portray them apart from (01:06:15):
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Charlie: anubis that were associated with death (01:06:18):
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Charlie: and i through the (01:06:21):
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Charlie: research i've done through this book i have (01:06:26):
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Charlie: wondered if you know because you (01:06:29):
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Charlie: had anubis that was worshipped initially in kind (01:06:32):
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Charlie: of a certain part of egypt and then you had another deity who was worshipped (01:06:35):
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Charlie: in another part of egypt and they were very similar in some ways there were (01:06:39):
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Charlie: differences but they were very similar in some ways and i wonder looking back (01:06:43):
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Charlie: on it was it just different interpretations of the same deity the same energy (01:06:45):
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Charlie: or archetype however you want to look at that (01:06:50):
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Charlie: So that's something I still ponder, I guess, to these days. (01:06:54):
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Jason: Well, I also wonder about the difference between the deities between the dynasties, (01:06:57):
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Jason: you know, because the Egyptian religion changed, I think, with pretty much every dynasty. (01:07:02):
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Jason: And the one that we know is the last one, as far as I understand. (01:07:07):
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Charlie: Yeah. Things absolutely, even the way that Anubis was seen, changed drastically (01:07:12):
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Charlie: over time because initially he was sort of the lord of death, the god of the dead. (01:07:18):
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Charlie: And as I mentioned earlier, Osiris really kind of, over time, (01:07:23):
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Charlie: and I think I had said in people's minds, shifted. (01:07:28):
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Charlie: That doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that he's got a new job, so to speak. (01:07:33):
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Charlie: But, you know, in people's minds, as I guess influential people, (01:07:38):
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Charlie: whether they be the pharaohs or priests or prominent figures, (01:07:44):
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Charlie: decided this is more, not, oh, either. (01:07:48):
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Charlie: Either this is more interesting or, you know, it's hard to say how or why they (01:07:52):
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Charlie: shifted. But someone in time really decided that this is this is kind of how (01:07:57):
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Charlie: things have shifted. This is the way things are. (01:08:03):
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Charlie: And so over time, we that's just kind of been adapted as the way things are, (01:08:05):
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Charlie: which is why, particularly in Egypt, because what we think of as ancient Egypt is not just one thing. (01:08:11):
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Charlie: What we consider ancient Egypt spans thousands of years. (01:08:20):
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Charlie: And think of how many hundreds or thousands of leaders there were and influential (01:08:25):
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Charlie: figures and how people saw deities over time. (01:08:31):
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Charlie: It's evolved. Even looking at Christianity, which comparatively is the younger (01:08:36):
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Charlie: religion, things are a lot. (01:08:40):
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Charlie: I mean, there's a lot of fundamentals that are the same, but there's a lot of (01:08:42):
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Charlie: changes that have happened in 2000 plus years. (01:08:46):
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Jason: Christianity has changed dramatically even within my own lifetime. (01:08:48):
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Jason: So, just the politics of it are just completely different. (01:08:53):
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Jason: Exactly. Yeah. (01:09:00):
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Charlie: And that's one thing that makes Anubis such a complicated fellow, (01:09:03):
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Charlie: because you've got differences over time that have changed how he was perceived. (01:09:07):
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Charlie: You also have, you can look at contrasting or differing origin stories of Anubis, (01:09:13):
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Charlie: how he came about, who his parents were, how he came to be. (01:09:21):
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Charlie: You kind of find contrasting information because things change over time. (01:09:26):
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Charlie: And I think that's okay. Hey, um, I've really in the last few years kind of (01:09:32):
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Charlie: generally in life kind of adapted this both and, uh, mindset where two things (01:09:38):
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Charlie: can kind of be true at the same time. (01:09:44):
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Jason: That's very healthy. (01:09:46):
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Charlie: Yeah, absolutely. (01:09:48):
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Jason: Yeah. And how has that, has that, that's been positive for you? (01:09:49):
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Jason: That's worked out better. (01:09:52):
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Charlie: I think so. I think you can't necessarily apply it to everything, (01:09:54):
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Charlie: but thinking of just as an example, I don't know. (01:09:59):
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Charlie: Adverse experiences in life were absolutely horrible and difficult, (01:10:04):
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Charlie: but also perhaps gave me more tools that I can use moving forward or kind of (01:10:10):
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Charlie: gave me a stronger perspective on life. (01:10:20):
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Jason: I think that's a much, that's a very mentally healthy attitude to take. (01:10:22):
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Jason: I mean, just to be able to, to, and it's not like, at least in my life, (01:10:26):
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Jason: it's not like Pollyanna, like, oh, everything's wonderful. (01:10:31):
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Jason: Or sometimes, sometimes you get, you go too far and you get like the kind of (01:10:34):
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Jason: new age victim blamey thing where it's like it happened because you wanted. (01:10:37):
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Charlie: It to happen (01:10:40):
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Jason: On some level, which is just like, right. Kind of fucking foul, (01:10:41):
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Jason: but part of my language, but, um, but to be able to have, I'm just talking about my own life, (01:10:44):
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Jason: you know, just, just to be able to have an attitude of, you know, that was horrible. (01:10:52):
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Jason: I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but you know, Hey, like, you know, (01:10:57):
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Jason: if I really look back, you know what, like I actually, that I was able to make (01:11:01):
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Jason: something positive out of that. (01:11:05):
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Jason: And that just to be able to have a sense of control a little bit is I think (01:11:07):
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Jason: incredibly important or to say, maybe this did happen on some level to lead (01:11:11):
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Jason: to other, to put more positive things. (01:11:16):
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Jason: And that's where we kind of get into questions of faith, I think, (01:11:18):
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Jason: really, rather than philosophy. (01:11:22):
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Jason: But I think these things are important. Do you have any, I'm wondering if you (01:11:24):
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Jason: have any specific stories from your own life of working with Anubis that were particularly, (01:11:28):
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Jason: you know, meaningful or dramatic in which maybe making a transformation or overcoming an adversity? (01:11:32):
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Charlie: Yeah, this is a very personal experience, and I don't want to go into too many details. (01:11:41):
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Jason: Whatever you're comfortable sharing. (01:11:46):
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Charlie: Yeah, no. A number of years ago, I was in an abusive relationship, (01:11:48):
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Charlie: and I won't go into details, but it was a very trying time, a very horrible time for me. (01:11:54):
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Charlie: And once I was able to leave that and get out of that space, (01:12:02):
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Charlie: it was a very long journey that in some ways I would say is continuous, (01:12:06):
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Charlie: probably through my lifetime, because healing is not a linear thing. (01:12:12):
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Charlie: That's sort of a tangent. (01:12:18):
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Charlie: But healing is not a linear thing. It's not. Oh, I'm done. I'm healed. (01:12:19):
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Charlie: Something is going to come up over and over and over again. (01:12:22):
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Charlie: And i feel like (01:12:26):
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Charlie: anubis had a large role in that (01:12:30):
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Charlie: because it gave me honestly kind (01:12:33):
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Charlie: of gave me a grounding point at least i think for me i did a lot of what i call (01:12:36):
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Charlie: shadow work and that's really for me going inside and facing some of the darker (01:12:46):
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Charlie: feelings and emotions that i have (01:12:51):
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Charlie: surrounding that and having someone (01:12:54):
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Charlie: there as a guide because for me some (01:12:57):
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Charlie: of it some of it i don't know there's so many things that (01:13:00):
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Charlie: under the umbrella of shadow work that you can do but some can be meditative (01:13:03):
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Charlie: and sort of a journey and that can be kind of i (01:13:07):
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Charlie: don't want to say dangerous but it can be hard because if you're not grounded (01:13:09):
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Charlie: in some way and have like a touch point even having a sort of physical touch (01:13:14):
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Charlie: point like i have a sort of set of i don't know what you'd call the mala beads (01:13:19):
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Charlie: or prayer beads that I have that's got a little anubis charm, (01:13:23):
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Charlie: I guess you could say on it. (01:13:27):
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Charlie: And having that with me when I'm doing some kind of meditation is a touch point (01:13:29):
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Charlie: that gives me grounding. (01:13:33):
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Charlie: And perhaps, I don't know, I've heard people sort of tongue-in-cheek jokingly (01:13:34):
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Charlie: call witchcraft or spiritual practices like that spicy psychology. (01:13:40):
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Charlie: Maybe it's all in my head, but but it gives (01:13:45):
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Charlie: me comfort and strength i think and so (01:13:48):
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Charlie: that's how i've really developed a (01:13:52):
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Charlie: deep relationship with with anubis is that he's been a figure in my life honestly (01:13:56):
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Charlie: even when i was a child before i knew what all of this was happening um i think (01:14:01):
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Charlie: in the introduction of my book there's a whole story i tell kind of my very (01:14:06):
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Charlie: first encounter with anubis before i even knew who he was or what it was. (01:14:10):
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Charlie: But looking back, I can see that it was definitely him. (01:14:14):
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Charlie: But looking back at my life and all the changes that have happened, (01:14:17):
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Charlie: adversities, or even not all that's been bad, the high times even, (01:14:21):
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Charlie: I think that there are a lot of prominent themes that I can't say, (01:14:26):
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Charlie: I can't attribute all that to Adobus. (01:14:32):
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Charlie: It's not like, oh, he fixed everything. It's not that. (01:14:34):
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Charlie: It's that I had someone there that I feel gave me (01:14:37):
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Charlie: a grounding point or a sort of strength that i didn't know that i had are (01:14:41):
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Jason: You a dog lover. (01:14:46):
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Charlie: I have historically ironically perhaps historically been more of a cat person okay um (01:14:48):
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Charlie: side story i have historically also worked a lot with bastet which is a whole (01:14:55):
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Charlie: separate thing very popular goddess yeah yeah but i'm also a dog lover um i didn't have (01:14:59):
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Charlie: i didn't have pets growing up but my very first pet was a cat i did at some (01:15:06):
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Charlie: point have a dog nowadays i would say i'm kind of somewhere between you know (01:15:11):
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Charlie: being a cat lover and a dog lover (01:15:16):
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Jason: But i was always a cat lover and i'm very much a dog well i'm lucky enough to (01:15:17):
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Jason: live with four cats and a dog but you know i think one of the really enduring (01:15:21):
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Jason: things about egyptian religion for modern people is how much they love pets (01:15:25):
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Jason: and that's something that so many people can come together on and not just that, (01:15:30):
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Jason: but a kind of a recognition of the divine or otherworldly nature, certainly of cats. (01:15:35):
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Jason: And I'm wondering if maybe there was something with Anubis. And I was just thinking (01:15:41):
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Jason: in my own life, you know, the idea of God's dogs is God to live in a dog. (01:15:45):
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Jason: Dogs as psychopomps or guides through transformative periods. (01:15:50):
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Jason: I mean, I went through an experience with actually when I moved to Texas, (01:15:56):
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Jason: I left behind everything my entire life. (01:15:59):
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Jason: I grew up in California, left my family, friends, my work, everything. (01:16:02):
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Jason: I left everything in California and then went through a breakup in the process. (01:16:05):
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Jason: So I ended up in Texas with basically no ties to my previous life at all. (01:16:09):
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Jason: And it was very much a death experience. (01:16:13):
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Jason: And it was extremely awful until I got a dog. (01:16:15):
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Jason: And then the dog basically guided me back to, he's on my YouTube channel now, (01:16:19):
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Jason: but my dog very much guided me back to sanity and humanity, I think. (01:16:24):
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Jason: And, you know, dogs are, they call them man's best friend for a reason, (01:16:28):
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Jason: I think. And they very much are guards for us in the same way that I think cats (01:16:35):
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Jason: can very much be guards for us. (01:16:39):
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Jason: I think, you know, anyone who's ever owned cats and is spiritually aware will (01:16:41):
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Jason: have lots of stories about about, let's say, having dreams of the cats guarding them. (01:16:45):
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Charlie: The cats being large and guarding them from negative entities. (01:16:52):
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Jason: Or, you know, I've had experiences where a cat came up, touched me, (01:16:55):
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Jason: and I felt like I'd been psychologically healed. (01:16:59):
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Jason: I know that sounds insane, but it actually happened. I was half asleep at the time. So there's that. (01:17:01):
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Jason: But, but I think that, you know, this may sound crazy to some people. (01:17:05):
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Jason: And then people who are cat owner, cat owners, and the type of people who listen (01:17:09):
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Jason: to this show, I'm sure will be like, (01:17:12):
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Jason: yeah, like this happens there's all kinds of things this (01:17:14):
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Jason: is why you have the witches familiar with cats things and it's (01:17:17):
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Jason: very much true with dogs and i don't think there's any mistake that (01:17:20):
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Jason: those two animals have not only become so important to humanity but have been (01:17:24):
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Jason: very much i think doing evolution with us alongside us you know and i think (01:17:29):
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Jason: the egyptians it seems to be from their architecture had very much had an understanding (01:17:36):
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Jason: of that so i wonder if there's a uh, (01:17:40):
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Jason: you know, just kind of like, just, just as a dog lover of some of that went into a new this as well. (01:17:43):
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Charlie: Yeah. And just as an aside, it's funny that you were talking about your, (01:17:48):
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Charlie: your background, your life. (01:17:53):
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Charlie: I had almost the identical experience except for moving to California. (01:17:54):
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Charlie: I left everything that I had ever known in Indiana, which is where I grew up. (01:17:58):
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Charlie: Every, everyone I knew, all of my friends my background even most of my stuff (01:18:03):
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Charlie: i left and came here with my my partner at the time and (01:18:08):
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Charlie: it was completely foreign to me it was new it was honestly scary and i didn't (01:18:15):
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Charlie: know what to do but i had a cat that moved with me her name was rigid and after (01:18:20):
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Charlie: the goddess there you go um and she was (01:18:25):
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Charlie: honestly I mean I had her for many years before I even moved but it was kind (01:18:31):
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Charlie: of a healing comfort to have her around and eventually I also got a dog and (01:18:36):
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Charlie: it was the same sort of thing having (01:18:42):
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Charlie: like honestly having someone to come home to (01:18:45):
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Charlie: that is just there to love you and spend time with you is powerful. (01:18:49):
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Jason: It's wonderful. (01:18:55):
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Charlie: It's wonderful. (01:18:55):
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Jason: I think it's necessary. I mean, cause it's hard to have a guaranteed source (01:18:56):
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Jason: of love is almost impossible with human beings. (01:19:01):
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Jason: And anyone who says that love is not conditional, it's like we do our best, (01:19:05):
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Jason: but you know, we're all human. (01:19:09):
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Jason: And I think that, yeah. And I'm not Not just having somebody to come home to, (01:19:12):
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Jason: but somebody to get up for in the morning who is going to let you know that (01:19:17):
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Jason: they need to be fed or walked. (01:19:21):
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Jason: It's like you're going to have (01:19:23):
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Jason: to get out of bed, right? There's not going to be any option about it. (01:19:24):
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Charlie: Yeah. But, well, and another thing, I am a type 1 diabetic, and my cat would (01:19:28):
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Charlie: wake me up if I had a little blood sugar in (01:19:36):
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Charlie: Yeah. So there's something I don't know if there's something in the. (01:20:23):
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Charlie: I don't know hormone or something they can sense and (01:20:27):
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Charlie: smell maybe they can yeah just smell just smell (01:20:30):
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Charlie: maybe or maybe breathing changes i don't know that's so interesting (01:20:33):
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Charlie: yeah i noticed also i think you mentioned the (01:20:36):
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Charlie: idea of dogs as guards in an (01:20:39):
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Charlie: egyptian context as well i mean like one thing i noticed after i got a (01:20:42):
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Charlie: dog is i slept a lot better and (01:20:45):
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Charlie: the reason is because i realized (01:20:48):
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Charlie: that dogs almost symbiotically form (01:20:52):
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Charlie: an extension of human senses because they can smell and (01:20:55):
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Charlie: hear better than us and if you have (01:20:58):
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Charlie: a dog it will wake you up in the middle of it's the (01:21:01):
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Charlie: best alarm system a dog is will automatically wake up and start barking if something (01:21:03):
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Charlie: is going wrong and just knowing that allowed me to turn off like i guess because (01:21:09):
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Charlie: we all have that kind of part of our brain and it monitors for danger while (01:21:16):
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Charlie: we're asleep. And that obviously takes mental processing. (01:21:20):
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Charlie: So it allowed me to kind of turn that off and sleep a bit more securely. (01:21:22):
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Charlie: And I'm just talking about like a little dog, you know, but like, (01:21:26):
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Charlie: yeah, it's like, and it's like, it's like, wow, my senses are actually extended (01:21:29):
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Charlie: and my senses are now extended and operating while I'm asleep. (01:21:34):
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Charlie: That's amazing. You know, that's, that's incredible. So that is, (01:21:39):
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Charlie: and to answer your question I think (01:21:43):
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Charlie: Many people that I talk to, and it's fascinating to me that people have... (01:21:58):
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Jason: Similar experiences, but so many people tell me that they see Anubis as this (01:22:04):
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Jason: kind of more gentle figure. (01:22:10):
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Jason: There are death deities around the world, and that's not to say Anubis is to (01:22:12):
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Jason: be taken lightly, but there are death deities around the world that are kind (01:22:16):
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Jason: of terrifying and you don't want to mess with. And again, that's not to say that Anubis can't be. (01:22:19):
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Jason: You absolutely should approach him with respect. But I think that so many people (01:22:24):
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Jason: have told me that they see him as more of a gentle figure, a very protective and caring figure. (01:22:30):
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Jason: And I perhaps, I don't know, I can't say for certain, but perhaps some of it comes from that is that. (01:22:36):
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Charlie: You see his sort (01:22:43):
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Jason: Of candid figure, dog, jack, whatever it might be. (01:22:44):
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Jason: And there's that sort of comfort and feeling like you're protected. (01:22:48):
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Jason: Yeah, that's interesting. (01:22:52):
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Jason: Definitely a lot more comforting than like Santa Marte or Barrett Samedi or something. Exactly. (01:22:54):
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Jason: Yeah. Interesting. Well, this has been a great conversation. (01:23:00):
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Charlie: You should definitely tell us where to get your book and other, (01:23:04):
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Jason: You know, other stuff you have going on. (01:23:08):
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Charlie: Where to find (01:23:10):
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Jason: Out more about you. you yeah i have a (01:23:10):
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Jason: website the website is anubis light and shadow (01:23:13):
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Jason: all the word anubis light and shadow.com i have (01:23:16):
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Jason: links on there to articles i've written over the years as well (01:23:20):
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Jason: as where you can pre-order my book because at this current time it's not quite (01:23:23):
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Jason: out yet it comes out in early november just about a month from now and you can (01:23:27):
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Jason: find links there to pre-order or purchase and links to social media you can (01:23:33):
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Jason: find me on i don't want to say every social media platform but (01:23:37):
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Jason: sort of the major ones on Instagram X, (01:23:41):
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Jason: formerly Twitter and threads. (01:23:44):
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Jason: My screen name is Charlar, part of my first and last name, Charlar underscore author. (01:23:46):
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Jason: You can also find me on Facebook. I have a page, Charlie Larson author. (01:23:51):
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Jason: So yeah, that's where you can find me. I post things kind of about my book and (01:23:57):
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Jason: about my experiences with. (01:24:01):
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Charlie: I love to travel. So that experience is about my travel and things that I like (01:24:03):
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Charlie: to teach and share with the world. So people can definitely check that out. (01:24:07):
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Charlie: But I wanted to say before we leave, thank you very much for having me on today. (01:24:11):
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Charlie: It's been an honor to talk to you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. (01:24:14):
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Charlie: This was a great conversation. (01:24:17):
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Charlie: I really enjoyed it. And I'm wishing you great luck with your book and continuing (01:24:18):
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Charlie: to settle into California. (01:24:23):
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Charlie: It's a little hectic. I hope it. Yeah, I hope it. (01:24:24):
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Charlie: It's a very different world from the Midwest where things are quiet and slow, (01:24:29):
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Charlie: especially in the Bay Area. (01:24:33):
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Charlie: Yeah, I like you. I like quiet and slow these days, but wishing you best of luck. (01:24:35):
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Charlie: Thank you very much. All right. Great to meet you. (01:24:40):
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 220: Anubis, Egyptian God of Death—With Charlie Larson

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Ep. 220: Anubis, Egyptian God of Death—With Charlie Larson

On Purpose with Jay Shetty