October 9, 2024 • 56 mins
BREAKING NEWS: Animal Outlook releases shocking, new undercover video of chickens being abused in a California factory farm and is calling for the Fresno County District Attorney’s office to file criminal animal cruelty charges against the corporation, which Animal Outlook identifies as Foster Farms, a major supplier to many big supermarkets. The video appears to show multiple instances of forklifts driving over and hitting live chickens, chickens being thrown, chickens being kicked and grabbed by their wings. Foster Farms says all of its chicken farms are American Humane Association Certified, and that the chickens it raises enjoy the 5 freedoms: including, “freedom from discomfort,” and “freedom from injury, pain, or disease.” Animal Outlook says its investigation “reveals a stark contrast, showing anything but humane care and freedom from discomfort, injury and fear.” Foster Farms is invited on any time to respond to Animal Outlook’s allegations. UnchainedTV’s Jane Velez-Mitchell speaks to Animal Outlook’s new Executive Director, Ben Williamson about this blockbuster breaking news and his fascinating history as a leader in the animal rights movement. Visit https://animaloutlook.org/investigations/foster-farms-2024/
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(00:00):
It's a plague our world.
If you want to revolutionise your health, get
truly joyful and jump to the next phase
of human evolution, all it takes is one
simple choice.
Now, here's your choice.
Here you go, guys.
Here you go.
We have breaking news to bring you.
This is a shocker.
(00:22):
Breaking news about chicken abuse.
Undercover footage just released by Animal Outlook of
chickens being abused in a California factory farm,
Animal Outlook is calling on the Fresno County
District Attorney's Office to file criminal animal cruelty
(00:43):
charges against the corporation, Foster Farms, which is
the major poultry producer in California, major supplier
to the big supermarkets.
This video shows multiple instances of forklifts driving
over and hitting live chickens, chickens being thrown,
(01:03):
chickens being kicked and grabbed by their wings.
Foster Farms says all of its chicken farms
are American Humane Association certified and that the
chickens it raises enjoy the five freedoms, including
freedom from discomfort and freedom from injury, pain,
or disease.
Animal Outlook says its investigation reveals a stark
(01:25):
contrast showing anything but humane care and freedom
from discomfort, injury, and fear.
Now, Foster Farms just moments ago released a
statement that we saw.
We will read it to you.
They are invited on any time to respond
to Animal Outlook's allegations.
And right now, we are delighted to speak
(01:45):
to Animal Outlook's new executive director, Ben Williamson,
about this blockbuster breaking news as well as
his fascinating history as a leader in the
animal rights movement.
Again, this footage is from Animal Outlook.
(02:06):
Undercover investigative footage just released, a blockbuster breaking
news story.
And I believe we are the first news
organisation to be showing this footage.
I wanna go straight out to Ben.
Ben, what was your reaction just as a
human being when your undercover investigator first showed
(02:28):
you this footage?
Hi, Jane.
Thanks so much for having me on the
show.
My reaction hopefully is the same as everybody
who watches this and to think, I can't
believe this goes on.
We know from doing countless undercover investigations, we
know that every time we do this kind
of thing, we see something that we expect
to see rough handling, we expect to see
(02:50):
abuse, but some of these things like the
forklifts driving over the birds, the distances these
workers were throwing the animals into the cages
at, when they should be, I mean, they
shouldn't be there at all, but if you're
going to do that, place them delicately inside,
but they just showed no, they showed complete
disregard for the lives of these animals.
(03:13):
And you can't be helped but be gobsmacked
by the cruelty that you see in the
video.
Now, tell us the timeline.
We're going to immediately read the statement from
Foster Farms, but what was the timeline here?
Over what period was this occurring?
The investigator went undercover at a catching crew
(03:36):
in three counties in Central Valley, California between
20 of June of this year and 24th
of July.
So they were in the field for about
a month and they went to three counties,
multiple farms as part of this catching crew.
They were working sometimes 14, 18 hour shifts
in the middle of the night, sometimes in
(03:56):
a hundred degree weather.
And as you see the footage that they
captured whilst in the field really shows that
the workers are under enormous stress and unfortunately
they're putting the birds through even more agony
by just wilful, egregious cruelty that you can
see.
(04:17):
It's really, really shocking.
And you know what?
We're going to play this multiple times.
Excuse me.
We're going to play this multiple times today
because essentially, you know, a picture equals a
thousand words or a million words.
You can describe this.
(04:38):
You can go on and on to basically
try to paint a picture.
But when you actually see it, there is
no mistaking what you're seeing.
So I just want to say, Ben, that
I immediately, as a journalist, when I saw
this a couple of days ago, tried to
(04:59):
get the other side of the story.
As a journalist, I always try to get
the other side of the story.
I'm calling the operator now at Foster Farms
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
I've already written to the company listed as
a PR firm, as well as written to
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
(05:21):
Hey, yeah, my name is Jane Velez Mitchell.
I'm a reporter for Unchained TV and I'm
trying to get to the press department to
get a response to an undercover investigation released
by Animal Outlook, alleging multiple instances of cruelty
caught on tape, which they have presented reportedly
(05:41):
to the Fresno County District Attorney's Office, requesting
animal cruelty charges be filed against the corporation.
So I'm trying to get the other side
of the story.
I'm trying to get a response from Foster
Farms.
Can you transfer me to your press department
so I can talk to somebody?
So I did not get a response.
In fact, I checked just moments before air,
(06:03):
just to make sure.
However, also moments before air, Foster Farms did
reportedly issue a statement through a poultry publication.
And let's read the statement from Foster Farms.
It says, the headline is Foster Farms response
(06:24):
to animal cruelty situation.
On October 8th, this is the publication talking,
the company released a statement that said it
took immediate action when it learned that broiler
chicken catchers were mistreating the birds at a
facility in Fresno County, California.
So this is from the company.
Quote, four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a
few employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare
(06:47):
and training standards and procedures.
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
those individuals and referred them to Fresno County
Law Enforcement where they will be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law, said Randy
Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
we stand for as a company and our
(07:08):
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
So now I wanna go back to the
head of the organisation that published that undercover
investigation, Ben Williamson, what is your response to
Foster Farms response?
Well, when I first read that statement, I
thought, okay, they are acknowledging that there is
(07:30):
cruelty involved.
They're acknowledging that there are individuals responsible who
have now been fired and that they themselves
are calling for the Fresno District Attorney to
file charges against those individuals.
What they were obviously doing as well was
deflecting any criticism against them as a company,
saying that they will instead do some retraining,
(07:52):
change some management supervision practises and trying to
deflect any attention.
But on closer reading of the statement, they're
trying to actually distance themselves from the video.
This might be a completely separate instance of
cruelty that they're actually purporting here.
They're not actually linking what they've discovered as
intentional violations of their animal welfare and training
(08:14):
standards to our video.
So it could be a completely different incident.
We also have no way of verifying that
the individuals who have been fired purportedly are
the same individuals featured in our video.
So we have a lot of questions about
their statement.
Again, we're glad that they seem to be
acknowledging that animal cruelty has no place in
(08:35):
farms.
But the truth is, Jane, you and I
both know that animal cruelty is a part
of animal agriculture.
The amount of hours that these people are
working, the amount of birds on the farm,
there's 15,000 birds here.
You can't ensure that any of those birds
are living a good life.
(08:56):
And it's just running over them with forklifts
and backing up over them with forklifts, throwing
them into these cages, as we can see
on the video.
It's horrible, it's egregious, and Foster Farms has
to bear culpability on this.
Foster Farms is unique amongst many animal agriculture
companies.
It employs all of these individuals.
(09:17):
They're not contracted out.
They're not contract growers.
They're not contract catching company.
These are all Foster Farms employees.
They own the farms, they own the birds,
and they employ the individuals.
So Foster Farms surely has some corporate responsibility
here.
What's more, California law is fairly unique in
that not only does it suggest that corporations
(09:39):
should be held accountable for acts of animal
cruelty involved on their farms, they also invite
it.
They say corporations must be held responsible for
the actions of their employees.
So we think we're in a pretty good
place.
We think that the Fresno DA will pick
this up and will file the cruelty charges.
(09:59):
We've alleged 206 total charges against Foster Farms,
against the workers, against the supervisors, and we're
hopeful that the DA will agree with us
and move this forward.
So let me ask you the timeline that
this occurred, because sometimes companies say, well, this
is taken out of context.
These are a few bad apples.
(10:20):
That's essentially what they're sort of saying.
They're saying that the people who are doing
this, this specific individuals are going to be
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
However, if this is happening over, let's say
a month, and that's what I wanna check
with you, wouldn't the people who are the
(10:41):
supervisors see some of this?
I mean, if you're running over chickens with
a forklift and there's any supervisor there, I
would assume that they would ultimately see that.
What is your take on that?
Yeah, absolutely.
You're right on the timeline.
It happened over a month, but it happened
(11:01):
over a month between June and July of
this year.
We could have picked any month of the
year.
We could have picked any farm.
This kind of stuff is endemic to animal
agriculture.
The number of birds on these farms, the
speed at which they work, throwing of these
animals, backing up over them with forklifts.
It's the kind of thing that is horrible
(11:21):
to watch, but unfortunately is endemic and a
part of animal agriculture.
You simply cannot remove the animal cruelty from
animal agriculture.
You're right.
The companies, we always see this response.
We always see companies say, this is a
few bad apples.
We're retraining.
It's rare that they call for the prosecution
themselves.
That's a step forward, but they also attack
(11:44):
the people who put out this video.
They want to talk about that we're a
vegan organisation and we're just trying to get
people to go vegan.
I think when you see the footage, it's
hard to make any separate inference than the
best thing to do is to leave animals
off your plate.
So we see this response all the time,
but when you keep seeing the same cruelty
(12:05):
over and over again, then it's not just
a few bad apples.
It's endemic in the animal agriculture industry.
So where do we go from here?
And by the way, I want to say,
I invite Foster Farms on anytime.
Again, we tried to reach them.
They didn't respond to me.
And I reached out approximately six times, but
(12:26):
then we did get that statement that they
gave, which I'll put up here to the
poultry magazine or the poultry publication.
But we do invite Foster Farms on anytime.
We would love to dialogue with you.
We would love to discuss this with you.
You are reportedly the largest poultry producer in
California and you supply chickens to the biggest
(12:52):
supermarkets.
I mean, I saw the list of supermarkets.
It's the supermarkets that everybody shops at.
And so I have to ask you, Ben,
ultimately this is a consumer issue.
I mean, if people are watching this and
it's upsetting them, and then they go out
and they buy the chickens, they're the ones
(13:12):
paying for the production of these chickens.
Yeah, they might not be the people directly
committing the cruelty to animals, but they are
paying the people who are committing the cruelty.
And so the best thing that any individual,
any of your viewers can do, which I'm
sure they do, is to stop feeding animals,
period.
You're right about Foster Farms and their customers.
(13:34):
They supply Albertsons and Walmart and Kroger, among
others that listed on their website.
And I think the store should also be
taking some responsibility here.
They should be saying to Foster Farms, you
know, this is unacceptable.
We will not stop your products anymore.
But we know it's ultimately a business decision
when you are paying very little amount of
(13:56):
money per bird and then you're forcing people
to put it on their plates.
That's unfortunately the reality, is that it's a
problem where the costs are externalised to the
animals themselves.
People paying to eat chicken, it's the animals
(14:18):
that eventually pay the ultimate price.
And this is the way that animals are
farmed in this country.
Well, I wanna say that at Unchained TV,
you know, and there you are, right there
on Unchained TV behind me.
If you're watching, we're a streaming network that
is available for free download.
(14:39):
We're a 501C3 nonprofit available for free download
on any cell phone, just put in Unchained
TV, on any television with an Apple TV
device, a Amazon Fire Stick or a Roku
device.
We're also available on all Samsung TVs and
soon to be all LG TVs.
(15:00):
But we just commissioned a documentary done by
a woman who runs a chicken sanctuary.
And you have to watch, it's called Meet
the Chickens.
And it's really, really fascinating because it shows
that chickens, which a lot of people just
think of as sort of like a nugget
are individuals and they have very unique personalities
(15:25):
each and every one of them.
Like everything I thought about them was wrong.
And I think that as a society, everything
that we think about them, if we think
about them at all is wrong.
They are all individuals with unique personalities, unique
(15:47):
faces and voices and preferences, likes and dislikes,
little idiosyncrasies.
They're just as individual as our dogs and
our cats.
And I think if society knew who they
really are, we would treat them a lot
(16:12):
better than we do.
We currently have 25 chickens here, all of
them rescues.
Most of them are Cornish crosses, these big
white birds.
They are considered meat birds, broiler chickens.
(16:33):
We kill about 9 billion of them a
year in this country alone.
So it's not really an overstatement to say
that it's a miracle that any of them
have made it here.
Oh man, this documentary and it's not graphic
unlike the video we're showing you today, but
please check it out.
It's on Unchained TV and it was done
(16:54):
by a woman who has actually, the woman
you're looking at, Tracy Glover.
She doesn't have experience as a documentarian, but
we just gave her a mic and a
stabiliser and she pulled off this really touching
half hour documentary about these individual chickens that
she has rescued, each with their own story.
(17:18):
And as a human being, it's just then
when you see what is happening to these
chickens in industrialised factory farming, wow, it just
makes it even more difficult to really comprehend
the magnitude of what we're talking about, Ben.
(17:41):
I mean, the magnitude, the number of individuals,
it's mind boggling.
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about 15,000
birds on this one farm.
We know that the number of birds in
farms can go up to the several hundred
thousands.
And then ultimately, as you said, 9 billion
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birds every year in the United States.
So it's an unimaginable scale really.
And we're very lucky in that we're able
to go into these places a few times
a year and really document what happens there
for people who, quite obviously, they want to
hide the truth from the consumers.
(18:24):
We're able to go in and take this
footage and then hopefully get charges put against
the people responsible and the corporations responsible, but
it doesn't happen enough because we're still not
able to get this message through necessarily to
everybody.
There's a vast gap between what people think
these animals' lives are like and the reality
(18:45):
that we show every time we do one
of these investigations.
And it's through people like you, Jane, and
your show, and everyone who's watching, it's really
up to all of us to help share
these investigations, tell people who don't otherwise know
just what goes on here and show them
for themselves.
Because I think seeing is really believing.
And once you see this, it's really hard
(19:06):
to imagine that there's anything else other than
this kind of stuff going on.
So tell us about the person.
I know you can't reveal his or her
identity, but tell us about the person who
recorded all this.
They have to go in there day after
day and essentially, what?
They are working there?
What happens?
(19:28):
Yeah, they're part of the catching crew.
Obviously, I don't want to give up too
much about how we conduct these things for
their safety and for the integrity of the
campaign, of the investigations.
But yeah, it's a horrible thing to have
to see this and not react as any
human being surely would with any sympathy in
(19:48):
caring for these birds.
The most important thing is that they document
the cruelty, that we're able to press charges
and hold people and corporations accountable for what
they're seeing and what they're being asked to
be part of.
And ultimately, we'll save more animals that way.
But yeah, it's a horrifying thing to have
(20:08):
to do this, to keep up a pretence,
to be party to it, to stand by
and not do anything about it other than
film and document and record and take notes.
All of these notes, all of the footage
helps build the case, not only for people
to go vegan, but also for the law
enforcement to do their job and hold people
accountable.
(20:30):
And what's really interesting is, and I want
to say, we invite foster farms on any
time to respond further.
We've read your statement.
Now, this is off their website, American Humane
Association certified.
They say they're certified by the American Humane
Association and that the chickens they raise enjoy
the five freedoms, freedom from hunger or thirst,
(20:53):
freedom from discomfort, freedom from injury, pain or
disease, freedom from cages, freedom from fear and
distress.
What is your response to foster farms' five
freedoms?
I mean, it's a bit of a joke,
isn't it really?
There's no way that you can see the
footage of the birds being thrown into the
(21:15):
cages, being run over by forklift trucks and
then think that they're free from discomfort or
injury.
Also, we know that the investigator recorded that
the temperatures exceeded 100 degrees.
You know, they're not free from thirst or
hunger or discomfort for those reasons as well.
So yeah, I mean, it's a bit of
(21:37):
a joke.
It's a bit of humane washing.
And, you know, unfortunately it will probably continue.
It will probably, American Humane will, might come
out and say something similar, like this is
horrible, we don't condone this, but then very
little is going to happen as a result.
So that's why it's up to all of
us to take action ourselves and to be
(21:58):
responsible for making sure this cruelty doesn't go
on by, you know, forcing these corporations to
stop the business of chicken farming.
Have you reached out to the American Humane
Association and shown them this video and said,
hey, you're certifying this company, this, I mean,
have you talked to them?
(22:20):
I wouldn't know what the investigators did before
I got here a week and a half
ago, but I can tell you that American
Humane will likely respond at least internally to
say that this is horrible.
It doesn't conform to our standards of the
five freedoms.
It doesn't conform to the standards of healthy,
(22:41):
enriching lives for these birds.
But how many times do you have to
see such a thing before you say, well,
actually this is endemic and the kind of
businesses that are taking our label and using
our brand as a humane shield before you
say enough is enough and we're not going
to certify foster farms or, you know, any
(23:03):
of these types of businesses again.
Yeah, now, Tracy Winter Glover, who is the
person who did the documentary, Meet the Chickens,
which I really urge you to watch on
Unchained TV, she says, people will say this
is an anomaly, but the truth is it's
the norm, just unbearably heartbreaking.
You know, what's your response to that?
Because again, if we go back to the
(23:24):
statement by the company, they're saying, you know,
this is not acceptable.
We reported the people doing this to authorities
and they're going to be prosecuted.
Yeah, I think again, it's a shirking responsibility
as a corporation.
You know, these individuals were employed by foster
(23:45):
farms.
The birds were owned, so to speak, by
foster farms.
The farms were owned by foster farms.
To say that this is just a few
bad apples, it's your company that is not
putting in the supervision necessary to safeguard the
health and lives of these animals, to make
sure that these things don't happen to them.
(24:06):
You can't just say they didn't play by
our rules.
If you're not enforcing your rules, then you
are responsible for what happens underneath them.
So you took this video to the Fresno
County District Attorney's Office.
And, you know, we know historically, and there's
cases up and down California and other parts
of the nation where the district attorneys refuse
(24:29):
to prosecute.
They might sometimes prosecute the individuals.
It seems like foster farms was saying they
will be prosecuted.
I would think that would be up to
the district attorney to make that announcement, but
maybe he or she will.
But will they go after the corporation?
Did you ask them to go?
(24:50):
After the corporation and filed charges against the
corporation, and if so, what was their response?
We did.
Foster Farms, we believe, is culpable for the
actions of its employees here.
And California, as I said, is pretty unique.
It has a good, relatively to some other
states, a good penal code, which allows for
(25:10):
prosecutions to be brought up against, in fact,
invites prosecutions to be brought against companies for
the behaviour of its employees.
So we think the DA will agree with
us and agree that Foster Farms is culpable
and not really buy what Foster Farms is
selling here, which is trying to say it's
(25:31):
the action of a few individuals that this
situation has been dealt with, we've fired them,
we're retraining.
You know, that's not good enough.
And just because, well, even if it was
no longer going on, even if the retraining
does work, it still happened.
And Foster Farms and its employees need to
be held accountable for the abuses that we've
(25:52):
seen.
So what did the DA say?
Were you able to have a discussion with
anybody from that office?
The case is ongoing.
We're in communication with the DA.
So we're just awaiting the next steps on
their behalf.
And as I say, we're confident that they
will agree that there have been egregious violations
of California's cruelty to animals statutes here.
(26:15):
And that Foster Farms, its employees, its supervisors
are all responsible.
So do you ever get to dialogue with
Foster Farms?
I mean, I tried, as you saw, calling,
emailing, filling out a form on the website,
did not get a response.
Now, again, I invite Foster Farms on anytime
(26:38):
to respond further.
They did issue a statement, we read it.
And so do you ever get to dialogue
with Foster Farms?
So I've held a number of positions and
maybe we'll talk a little bit more about
my background in the past.
So working for other organisations that try to
(27:03):
do a bit more corporate engagement, we see
these organisations, we see chicken companies put up
a wall to anyone in the animal protection
movement.
They are just not interested in what we
have to say.
They use their pay to play humane shields
and they try to do everything that they
can through deceptive marketing practises to convince everyone
(27:24):
that everything's rosy.
And as far as engaging with the animal
protection community, it's just not something that they
welcome and that they're receptive to.
They will occasionally try to make piecemeal changes
and get the support of some people in
the animal protection community.
But as far as people like myself who
(27:46):
are calling for people to stop eating animals,
it's not in their business interest to necessarily
engage.
And so they'd rather just stonewall us, spend
a lot more money on marketing than we
have in our total operating budgets.
This is a $3 billion company, as you
said, the largest in California.
They can just purport through marketing efforts that
(28:08):
they're doing something completely different to what we're
able to expose on a month-long investigation.
So no, they're not very receptive to engagement
at all in my experience.
What about fines?
Somebody said here, the company needs to be
heavily fined.
Is this regulated?
So is it really just about the DA
making an arbitrary decision as to whether or
(28:31):
not to file criminal charges?
What regulations are being broken?
And what about legal action that is not
criminal on the civil side?
Yeah, it's all a possibility.
The first port of call is for the
DA to get involved and take it on
from a government perspective.
There are other legal avenues open if that
(28:52):
doesn't happen.
Fines are one of the punishments that we
see sometimes doled out.
Certainly not enough.
As you say, often the prosecutors just won't
pick up the case and use some really
poor reasoning as far as we're concerned to
shirk responsibility themselves and not hold these corporations
to account.
(29:13):
Fines, penalties, sentences, bans from working with animals
are other ways that people have been held
responsible in the past.
But I don't think anyone can kind of
see this, the footage that we've documented and
say that there's really much punishment that can
fit the crime of what they've put these
(29:34):
birds through.
So one of our commenters who happens to
be watching on YouTube, I believe, can I
support while still eating meat or will you
hate me?
What's your response?
I don't hate anybody.
It's a personal journey going vegan and food
is such a personal thing with so many
(29:56):
different social societal factors involved in people's decision
-making.
We think that when people see the kind
of footage that our investigators are able to
capture, when they learn more about the issues,
there's no other conclusion than to go vegan.
But we know that food preferences evolve over
time and that people's vegan journey can be
(30:20):
long and they can come at it from
many different ways.
But ultimately, you as a consumer, if you
don't want this kind of thing to happen,
the only real thing you can do is
to not participate in animal agriculture by leaving
animals off your plate.
And if you are just joining us, we've
been reporting breaking news.
I believe Unchained TV is the first news
(30:42):
organisation to put out this video that was
obtained by Animal Outlook over this past summer.
An undercover investigator was there for about a
month at a foster farm's facility and saw
some pretty horrifying things.
There's a forklift running over live birds and
(31:04):
birds were left alive, suffering.
You can see what's going on here.
In one instance, a driver crashes forklift into
a building.
I mean, these are drivers who have these
chickens.
I honestly, I don't really have any words
(31:25):
for this video to describe it.
Sure, you could sit there and describe it,
but it's like, to me personally, my feeling,
it's like watching a horror show.
And this is California's largest poultry producer.
I wanna say that again.
This is California's largest poultry producer.
(31:45):
When you're going to the supermarkets, the biggest
supermarkets in California, there's a very good chance
if you're getting chicken that came from this
situation.
So, you know, here's the thing though.
I wanna say this.
We, I personally, as a journalist who has
(32:05):
been doing this now for several decades, I
have covered situations like this over and over
and over again, various companies.
Indeed, one could argue that it is very
rare.
Maybe it's never even happened where you go
into a factory farm for animals and everything's
hunky-dory.
(32:26):
It seems to me my personal experience on
the industry as a whole is that every
time investigators have gone in and they're investigators
from Animal Outlook and from Animal Equality and
from PETA and from Last Chance, I mean,
it goes on and on.
Organisations have been doing this for the longest
time.
They find disturbing situations.
(32:49):
They just find things that people go, oh
my God, oh my God, this is horrible.
And nevertheless, I just wanna show you a
graphic and I'm gonna stop this video for
a second to show you the graphic.
Here's the graphic.
Animal consumption continues to skyrocket.
(33:11):
This is from like the early 60s to
2022.
You can see that the number of animals
is skyrocketing and chickens are the most by
far consumed animal.
If we stopped eating chickens, the number of
(33:31):
animals killed would dramatically drop by something like
more than 90%.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben.
No, you're absolutely right.
Unfortunately, even though we've exposed numerous chicken farms
and other kinds of farms, numerous corporations who
(33:52):
are involved in this cruelty, even though it's
all available on our website, animaloutlook.org, for
anyone to access at any time, sadly, the
kind of cognitive dissonance of people just buying
what the industry is selling and buying the
lies, the myths, the humane washing just makes
(34:13):
people feel okay and more comfortable about eating
animals when it's just the reality is so
different from what the companies are putting out
there.
So yeah, sadly, the number is increasing.
At some stage, we do hope that we
reach peak meat, as they call it, and
it starts dropping.
We'd know that plant-based meat substitutes are
(34:35):
getting better and better and more widely available.
We do think as information becomes more dispersed
and more available to people, and that people
will make the right decision and leave animals
off their plates and go for some of
the more delicious plant-based meat substitutes if
that's the way they wanna go.
(34:56):
But yeah, it's a sad state of affairs
that no matter how many times we do
these investigations, we know that the kind of
societal pressures, family, community, the type of messaging
that works.
We've done a lot of work on behavioural
sciences in recent years.
I think that's one of the best things
that the movement has done in recent years
is really try to understand what's involved in
(35:17):
people's decision-making, from nudge behaviour and behavioural
sciences.
But we're not there yet.
The message isn't getting through in the way
that we want it to.
Your audience is fantastic, and I'm sure everyone
is more enlightened than most who watch your
show, but it's up to all of us,
I think, to share the responsibility of getting
(35:37):
these messages out to make sure that we
start to bring that graph down.
Yes, and I just wanna read some of
the comments.
I've been vegan for 20 years and I'll
die vegan.
FYI, we all start out vegan.
Interesting point.
Tiffany Brunelli, there is no right way to
do the wrong thing.
Leave it off your plate.
And we also have a statement from Kim
(36:02):
Delgado.
Oh, geez, the numbers of eating animals should
be dropping.
All these years, all the information.
We must continue to get the truth out
there.
Tina, the workers don't get paid much.
Workers don't get paid much.
Don't pay the abuse and murder of these
innocent beings.
Go vegan.
(36:22):
And it was very interesting to get this
message from Erin Wing, who I know is
a former undercover investigator at Animal Outlook who
has been given awards for her courageous and
really risky undercover investigations.
She says, after conducting and managing investigations into
multiple chicken farms and farming facilities over the
(36:44):
course of seven years, the treatment is always
the same, brutal and heartbreaking.
And I think that what we have to
consider is when you're talking these kinds of
numbers, billions of animals being killed.
I mean, millions and millions and millions of
(37:04):
chickens have been killed in the amount of
time we've been talking today.
How can you do that nicely?
Is there any possible way to do that
nicely?
Or does the sheer number result in, well,
the footage that you revealed to the public
that we are showing you now, Ben?
(37:24):
Yeah, there's no such thing as humane meat.
There are degrees of barbarity and inhumaneness, but
there's no way to take the life of
an animal humanely because ultimately they don't want
to die.
They don't want to be treated in this
way and in any way that means that
(37:45):
they'll be killed prematurely in a fraction of
their natural lifespan.
So the only thing to do is to
stop eating them altogether.
Now, I will say that part of this
footage, actually, we weren't able to show as
much of the cruelty as we recorded.
(38:06):
There were so many incidences of birds being
thrown into those cages, so many incidences of
the forklifts being driven over the birds who
have been grown so large for their breast
meat that their bodies can't support, their legs
can't support their own weight, that they couldn't
get out of the way.
And rather than stopping the forklift, moving the
(38:28):
animals out of the way, it's just more
expedious, it's more profitable to run the animals
over and count that as a loss.
Well, Tracy Glover is saying exactly, this is
the chicken industry.
How can we expect the workers to see
these babies for the individual sentient beings they
are when we say their lives don't matter?
They, meaning the workers, become desensitised.
(38:50):
They couldn't do their jobs if they didn't
become desensitised.
It's inevitable there will be this abuse.
This is an industry that by definition is
based on violence and death.
So I have to ask you, Ben, are
the workers then sort of scapegoated if you
take her point of view?
(39:10):
They're gonna be punished possibly.
The company says they're gonna be prosecuted.
Take it away.
Yeah, absolutely.
The companies are trying, you can see in
their statement that Foster Farm is trying to
scapegoat these few bad apples, as they say,
that they're blaming the poorest of the whole
Foster Farms organisation, which is the lowest paid
(39:31):
workers in the system.
But Foster Farms knows that this type of
abuse takes place in its supply chain.
And they're simply just trying to deflect any
criticism and shirk corporate responsibility for the abuse
that we've uncovered and that is constantly uncovered.
We've got investigations going back to 2015 with
Foster Farms and other organisations do as well.
(39:54):
So yeah, this takes place all over the
country, a whole number of all the top
chicken producers in the country.
You'll find this kind of place completely commonplace.
Well, we've got another long comment here.
Okay, so I don't like eating meat for
the main reason because of all the unnecessary
treatment and cruelty toward these sentient beings.
(40:15):
And you can get all your necessary nutrients
in other ways, but I have dogs that
eat raw because it is better for them.
It bothers me sometimes when I have to
prepare their food.
And yes, the entire animal is used, but
I don't know what else healthy you could
give them to eat.
Myself not eating is one thing, but what
about our pets?
Well, I have two dogs and this one
(40:36):
here is one of the two and she's
100% vegan.
And my gosh, her energy level is off
the charts.
She's perfectly healthy.
So there's plenty of vegan options for your
companion animals.
Just wanted to answer that question there.
Let's talk a little bit about you.
(40:57):
You're very modest, but you have an incredible,
I was reading it and I could be
going on all day, recycled paper by the
way, talking about all the different things you've
done.
You're originally from London, my favourite city.
I have to say one of my favourite
cities, but really my favourite city.
(41:17):
And you worked at PETA, United Kingdom, PETA
US.
Then you were the director at World Animal
Protection and then the executive director at Compassion
World Farming.
Wow.
Tell us about your journey, Ben.
Yeah, I'm very happy to.
So I'll start you off at the beginning.
(41:39):
My vegan origin story was, I came from
the kind of Gary Francione school.
I really got into the abolitionist approach.
That was my entry point into the world
of veganism.
And just the arguments that they were making
completely made sense.
That there is no way to do this
ethically and really abolitionism is the only way
(42:03):
to go.
So at the time, my background was actually
in economics.
I did economics at university and I did
my master's in political economy at London School
of Economics.
And I was working for an economics think
tank in the city of London.
And it was around the time of the
financial crisis in 2008, 2009.
(42:24):
And there was a lot of demand from
the press to know what would happen with
labour market, with interest rates and taxes.
And so I was doing a lot of
press at the time.
And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great
to be able to combine my skillset, which
increasingly was press with my passion, which was
(42:45):
increasingly veganism.
And so I joined PETA.
They were the largest animal organisation, the first
one in my kind of sphere of influence.
And I had a very enjoyable career with
PETA for seven years, first in the U
.S., sorry, first in the UK, in my
hometown of London.
And then I moved, I was lucky enough
(43:06):
to move to Los Angeles with PETA.
Up until about 2019.
And then, as you say, I moved into
campaigns from press and then more organisational responsibility
after that.
So yeah, I've been around, I've been lucky
enough to study under the tutelage of some
great leaders in our organisation, Ingrid Newkirk and
(43:27):
Steve McIver and Phil.
So compassion.
And so it's just really, I'm really grateful
to have studied under some great inspirational people
and to be able now to bring that
to Animal Outlook.
As I say, I'm two weeks into the
job or not even two weeks into the
job.
(43:47):
But I think Animal Outlook, in terms of
what the parts of what I think is
going to help move the needle for animals
is really on point.
People don't know it's a 29-year organisation.
We're gonna celebrate our 30th year next year.
It started out as a homework, kind of
a high school club.
And has developed into one of the leading
(44:09):
kind of mid-size organisations in the animal
protection movement.
The focus on investigations and legal work and
vegan outreach and now farmer transitions as well
is something that I think fits the skill
sets that I've learned in communications and campaigns.
My job is really, as I see it,
to help amplify that work and bring, deliver
(44:31):
some of the amazing investigations and legal groundbreaking
legal cases that we've done.
We can continue to do to more of
the mainstream public.
So to ask you a provocative question, I
see that back, I would say 20 years,
15 years ago, 20 years ago, the mainstream
(44:52):
media was more likely to cover an undercover
investigation.
Now I've noticed that they often pretend it
didn't happen.
And that's one of the reasons we started
Unchained TV, the world's only non-profit vegan
streaming television network to get these stories out.
I even said to you, who else has
(45:13):
covered this?
Now, now that Foster Farms has issued a
statement, maybe I hope there will be more
coverage.
We never want the exclusive on stories like
this, never.
But one of the reasons we started it
is that it's, to me, it feels more
and more, and I was in mainstream media
for more than three decades, that the mainstream
media has been co-opted by the meat,
dairy, and pharmaceutical industries, which are very intertwined.
(45:37):
And so you're not seeing the kind of
reporting that you even saw back 20 years
ago when it comes to these undercover investigations.
What are your thoughts on that?
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that that has been my
experience as well.
I think a couple of things are happening.
(45:58):
Yes, the mainstream media is kind of getting
scared off by the litigiousness of some of
these companies.
They don't want to put their head above
the parapet because they're wondering, well, what if
I get sued?
As a media organisation, if I'm giving a
voice to allegations that end up not having
any reality, I think that- Well, let
me just say this.
(46:19):
I understand what you're saying, and I'm always
very cautious as a journalist.
You presented videotaped evidence.
Now, sometimes in past, the companies go, this
was taken out of context.
Honestly, they didn't suggest that.
They said, Foster Farms, and I'll read the
statement again, and we invite Foster Farms on
(46:41):
any time.
We would love to dialogue with you.
It says, as quoted in this poultry publication,
four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a few
employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare and
training standards and procedures.
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
those involved and referred them to the Fresno
(47:02):
County Law Enforcement, where they will be prosecuted
to the fullest extent of the law, said
Randy Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
we stand for as a company, and our
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
You are saying the company itself is responsible.
You're asking the Fresno County District Attorney's Office
(47:24):
to prosecute the company, and we invite the
Fresno County District Attorney's Office on, so there
is the response from the company.
They're not saying this didn't happen.
They're not saying what companies often say is,
this was taken out of context.
(47:44):
They're saying, yeah, this is not like some
Hollywood production where it was made to look
like.
They're saying this happened.
They're acknowledging it.
Yeah, I mean, there might be a slight,
slight of hand in their statements.
They might, they haven't exactly linked it to
the video that we filmed, but ultimately they're
(48:07):
accepting that there has been some degree of
cruelty to animal violations that have taken place
at their farms, and they are saying that
they've taken responsibility for it, which, you know,
we would argue that they haven't until they
face themselves the- What would you like
to see the company do?
Well, ultimately, I think the company needs to
(48:29):
get out of the business of chicken farming.
As we know, chicken farming is, you can't
detach cruelty to animals from chicken farming.
We see it every time, but yeah, these
workers should never be allowed to work with
chickens.
Again, the supervisors should be held responsible, the
board of Foster Farm should be held responsible,
and it's ultimately up to law enforcement to
(48:51):
decide in this particular case which charges move
forward and how responsible Foster Farms is held.
But I would say as well, to go
back to our point about media, you know,
I could talk about media's willingness to embrace
these things all the time.
It's kind of a, it's a bit of
a paradox because we see so much of
this cruelty in investigations.
(49:12):
We do three or four of these kinds
of investigations a year.
The media's just a little, let's say, almost
tired of it.
It's more of a, it's like a man
bites dog.
What else is new?
We know that cruelty to animals exists in
factory farms.
We know it happens.
So they kind of think nothing's new, but
at the same time, we know that their
audience doesn't know this stuff.
(49:32):
We know that we ourselves as animal protection
advocates, we're constantly surprised by the degree of
cruelty that we see on these farms.
So, you know, it's a very strange state
of affairs where the media organisations say, oh,
this is just what happens.
But for some reason that is not getting
out to the public.
And please share this out.
(49:53):
We are streaming this on our streaming network
where you can comment as well as Facebook,
YouTube, X, LinkedIn, share it out.
You know, if indeed you're not gonna get
mainstream media coverage on this, then the only
(50:15):
way that we can do it is through
independent media, which is what we are, and
through people sharing it out.
And there it is when somebody says, I'm
sharing this out on every platform, it's a
click.
And that's, you never know the impact.
I actually sent this to somebody who, I
(50:36):
think we all have a situation where there's
somebody that we like very much, but they
completely disregard our position when it comes to
animal activism and veganism.
And I have a friend like that.
And, you know, I was looking at this
and I just texted her the link.
And I said, three minutes, watch it.
I didn't say anything else.
(50:57):
And she responded, this is sad.
That was it.
But I said, I appreciate you taking the
time to watch.
Thank you.
I didn't really wanna say anything more.
I don't wanna fight with people.
I just wanted her to see it.
Because one of the hard things is to
get people to watch these videos.
You know, that's why we have Unchained TV.
(51:20):
We have a lot of fun, upbeat videos,
cooking shows and reality TV shows and fun,
upbeat coverage.
But then mixed in with that is some
of these more serious, disturbing videos.
So, exactly.
Well, we only have a couple minutes.
I wanted to get your thoughts for where
(51:42):
Animal Outlook is going to go.
And, you know, having worked with many, many
different animal rights organisations over decades now, I
would say that, you know, what stands out
to me about Animal Outlook, and I've interviewed
some of the undercover investigators who, to me,
are the bravest people in the entire movement,
is your undercover investigations.
You're known for that.
(52:03):
Is there anything else you're gonna be focused
on?
Well, I really like the strategy that Cheryl
and my predecessor and Erica before have laid
out for Animal Outlook.
You know, it all starts with investigations.
That's how we get the truth.
That's how we know what's going on.
From there, we have a legal strategy.
We want impact legal advocacy, something that's not
(52:23):
only going to prosecute a few people at
a time, but actually something that's replicable that
other organisations, other firms can then use to
litigate properly in their jurisdictions.
That can be scalable and hold the whole
industry and the whole animal protection, the whole
animal farming system to account.
(52:44):
From there, obviously we use the investigations, the
legal work to create a vegan movement, to
say that there is no alternative to animal
cruelty within the animal farming industry.
Going vegan is the only way to actually,
to end the cruelty.
So vegan outreach has to be like the
tip of the spear really, because that's what
(53:06):
any single, that's the most, the best thing
that any single individual can do.
And from there, it's about just transition.
So helping farmers escape, because farmers are trapped
in this system too.
Farmers are under enormous amounts of debt when
they go into chicken farming, building the barns
and being responsible to the integrators usually, and
helping them transition out of animal farming so
(53:26):
that we can close that loop, having them
grow lettuce, having them grow mushrooms, having them
grow other things that do not harm, create
inequality to animals.
So really closing that loop and making sure
those things never happen again.
So I really like Animal Outlook's strategy of
how we go from the investigations all through
to the end, which is a more vegan
world.
Wow.
And do you think we're getting closer to
(53:48):
a more vegan world?
Because nothing goes straight up.
I mean, when Beyond Meat, for example, went
public, it was like a frenzy.
And then there was just an explosion of
plant-based restaurants, products, and now there's a
bit of a retrenchment because nothing ever goes
straight up, even the most successful stocks are
(54:09):
a bit of a craggy line.
Where do you think we are?
Unfortunately, I think it's something we're gonna be
forced into.
As humans, we don't kind of do much
until we're forced into it.
And we see what's going on with these
dreadful hurricanes in Florida now.
We know that animal agriculture is one of
the leading causes of climate change.
It's probably not going to be something that
(54:32):
we change until it's too late.
But if there are enough people calling for
it, we'll get there just in time and
we'll end animal agriculture while we still have
a planet to live on.
I just wanna say, Ben, it's been such
a delight speaking with you.
I find your backstory fascinating.
I know you're a very busy person, so
(54:52):
I wanna thank you for taking the time
to join us here on Unchained TV.
And I hope, if you haven't, that you
download our streaming network.
So it's a vegan Netflix.
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained, Unchained TV.
Your life will change.
It's just that easy.
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
(55:15):
everybody.
Unchained TV changed my life.
Unchained TV is crushing it.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained TV is my go-to.
Unchained TV, who knew?
Unchained, baby, yeah.
So download it.
(55:35):
The world's only vegan streaming network.
It's free.
You can download it on your phone, on
your TV, and you can also watch online
at unchainedtv.com.
See you next time.
Bye.
Thanks, Jen.
It's a plague our world.
If you want to revolutionise your health, get
truly joyful and jump to the next phase
of human evolution, all it takes is one
simple choice.
Now, here's your choice.
Here you go, guys.
Here you go.
We have breaking news to bring you.
This is a shocker.
(00:22):
Breaking news about chicken abuse.
Undercover footage just released by Animal Outlook of
chickens being abused in a California factory farm,
Animal Outlook is calling on the Fresno County
District Attorney's Office to file criminal animal cruelty
(00:43):
charges against the corporation, Foster Farms, which is
the major poultry producer in California, major supplier
to the big supermarkets.
This video shows multiple instances of forklifts driving
over and hitting live chickens, chickens being thrown,
(01:03):
chickens being kicked and grabbed by their wings.
Foster Farms says all of its chicken farms
are American Humane Association certified and that the
chickens it raises enjoy the five freedoms, including
freedom from discomfort and freedom from injury, pain,
or disease.
Animal Outlook says its investigation reveals a stark
(01:25):
contrast showing anything but humane care and freedom
from discomfort, injury, and fear.
Now, Foster Farms just moments ago released a
statement that we saw.
We will read it to you.
They are invited on any time to respond
to Animal Outlook's allegations.
And right now, we are delighted to speak
(01:45):
to Animal Outlook's new executive director, Ben Williamson,
about this blockbuster breaking news as well as
his fascinating history as a leader in the
animal rights movement.
Again, this footage is from Animal Outlook.
(02:06):
Undercover investigative footage just released, a blockbuster breaking
news story.
And I believe we are the first news
organisation to be showing this footage.
I wanna go straight out to Ben.
Ben, what was your reaction just as a
human being when your undercover investigator first showed
(02:28):
you this footage?
Hi, Jane.
Thanks so much for having me on the
show.
My reaction hopefully is the same as everybody
who watches this and to think, I can't
believe this goes on.
We know from doing countless undercover investigations, we
know that every time we do this kind
of thing, we see something that we expect
to see rough handling, we expect to see
(02:50):
abuse, but some of these things like the
forklifts driving over the birds, the distances these
workers were throwing the animals into the cages
at, when they should be, I mean, they
shouldn't be there at all, but if you're
going to do that, place them delicately inside,
but they just showed no, they showed complete
disregard for the lives of these animals.
(03:13):
And you can't be helped but be gobsmacked
by the cruelty that you see in the
video.
Now, tell us the timeline.
We're going to immediately read the statement from
Foster Farms, but what was the timeline here?
Over what period was this occurring?
The investigator went undercover at a catching crew
(03:36):
in three counties in Central Valley, California between
20 of June of this year and 24th
of July.
So they were in the field for about
a month and they went to three counties,
multiple farms as part of this catching crew.
They were working sometimes 14, 18 hour shifts
in the middle of the night, sometimes in
(03:56):
a hundred degree weather.
And as you see the footage that they
captured whilst in the field really shows that
the workers are under enormous stress and unfortunately
they're putting the birds through even more agony
by just wilful, egregious cruelty that you can
see.
(04:17):
It's really, really shocking.
And you know what?
We're going to play this multiple times.
Excuse me.
We're going to play this multiple times today
because essentially, you know, a picture equals a
thousand words or a million words.
You can describe this.
(04:38):
You can go on and on to basically
try to paint a picture.
But when you actually see it, there is
no mistaking what you're seeing.
So I just want to say, Ben, that
I immediately, as a journalist, when I saw
this a couple of days ago, tried to
(04:59):
get the other side of the story.
As a journalist, I always try to get
the other side of the story.
I'm calling the operator now at Foster Farms
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
I've already written to the company listed as
a PR firm, as well as written to
General Enquiries, trying to get a response.
(05:21):
Hey, yeah, my name is Jane Velez Mitchell.
I'm a reporter for Unchained TV and I'm
trying to get to the press department to
get a response to an undercover investigation released
by Animal Outlook, alleging multiple instances of cruelty
caught on tape, which they have presented reportedly
(05:41):
to the Fresno County District Attorney's Office, requesting
animal cruelty charges be filed against the corporation.
So I'm trying to get the other side
of the story.
I'm trying to get a response from Foster
Farms.
Can you transfer me to your press department
so I can talk to somebody?
So I did not get a response.
In fact, I checked just moments before air,
(06:03):
just to make sure.
However, also moments before air, Foster Farms did
reportedly issue a statement through a poultry publication.
And let's read the statement from Foster Farms.
It says, the headline is Foster Farms response
(06:24):
to animal cruelty situation.
On October 8th, this is the publication talking,
the company released a statement that said it
took immediate action when it learned that broiler
chicken catchers were mistreating the birds at a
facility in Fresno County, California.
So this is from the company.
Quote, four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a
few employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare
(06:47):
and training standards and procedures.
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
those individuals and referred them to Fresno County
Law Enforcement where they will be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law, said Randy
Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
we stand for as a company and our
(07:08):
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
So now I wanna go back to the
head of the organisation that published that undercover
investigation, Ben Williamson, what is your response to
Foster Farms response?
Well, when I first read that statement, I
thought, okay, they are acknowledging that there is
(07:30):
cruelty involved.
They're acknowledging that there are individuals responsible who
have now been fired and that they themselves
are calling for the Fresno District Attorney to
file charges against those individuals.
What they were obviously doing as well was
deflecting any criticism against them as a company,
saying that they will instead do some retraining,
(07:52):
change some management supervision practises and trying to
deflect any attention.
But on closer reading of the statement, they're
trying to actually distance themselves from the video.
This might be a completely separate instance of
cruelty that they're actually purporting here.
They're not actually linking what they've discovered as
intentional violations of their animal welfare and training
(08:14):
standards to our video.
So it could be a completely different incident.
We also have no way of verifying that
the individuals who have been fired purportedly are
the same individuals featured in our video.
So we have a lot of questions about
their statement.
Again, we're glad that they seem to be
acknowledging that animal cruelty has no place in
(08:35):
farms.
But the truth is, Jane, you and I
both know that animal cruelty is a part
of animal agriculture.
The amount of hours that these people are
working, the amount of birds on the farm,
there's 15,000 birds here.
You can't ensure that any of those birds
are living a good life.
(08:56):
And it's just running over them with forklifts
and backing up over them with forklifts, throwing
them into these cages, as we can see
on the video.
It's horrible, it's egregious, and Foster Farms has
to bear culpability on this.
Foster Farms is unique amongst many animal agriculture
companies.
It employs all of these individuals.
(09:17):
They're not contracted out.
They're not contract growers.
They're not contract catching company.
These are all Foster Farms employees.
They own the farms, they own the birds,
and they employ the individuals.
So Foster Farms surely has some corporate responsibility
here.
What's more, California law is fairly unique in
that not only does it suggest that corporations
(09:39):
should be held accountable for acts of animal
cruelty involved on their farms, they also invite
it.
They say corporations must be held responsible for
the actions of their employees.
So we think we're in a pretty good
place.
We think that the Fresno DA will pick
this up and will file the cruelty charges.
(09:59):
We've alleged 206 total charges against Foster Farms,
against the workers, against the supervisors, and we're
hopeful that the DA will agree with us
and move this forward.
So let me ask you the timeline that
this occurred, because sometimes companies say, well, this
is taken out of context.
These are a few bad apples.
(10:20):
That's essentially what they're sort of saying.
They're saying that the people who are doing
this, this specific individuals are going to be
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
However, if this is happening over, let's say
a month, and that's what I wanna check
with you, wouldn't the people who are the
(10:41):
supervisors see some of this?
I mean, if you're running over chickens with
a forklift and there's any supervisor there, I
would assume that they would ultimately see that.
What is your take on that?
Yeah, absolutely.
You're right on the timeline.
It happened over a month, but it happened
(11:01):
over a month between June and July of
this year.
We could have picked any month of the
year.
We could have picked any farm.
This kind of stuff is endemic to animal
agriculture.
The number of birds on these farms, the
speed at which they work, throwing of these
animals, backing up over them with forklifts.
It's the kind of thing that is horrible
(11:21):
to watch, but unfortunately is endemic and a
part of animal agriculture.
You simply cannot remove the animal cruelty from
animal agriculture.
You're right.
The companies, we always see this response.
We always see companies say, this is a
few bad apples.
We're retraining.
It's rare that they call for the prosecution
themselves.
That's a step forward, but they also attack
(11:44):
the people who put out this video.
They want to talk about that we're a
vegan organisation and we're just trying to get
people to go vegan.
I think when you see the footage, it's
hard to make any separate inference than the
best thing to do is to leave animals
off your plate.
So we see this response all the time,
but when you keep seeing the same cruelty
(12:05):
over and over again, then it's not just
a few bad apples.
It's endemic in the animal agriculture industry.
So where do we go from here?
And by the way, I want to say,
I invite Foster Farms on anytime.
Again, we tried to reach them.
They didn't respond to me.
And I reached out approximately six times, but
(12:26):
then we did get that statement that they
gave, which I'll put up here to the
poultry magazine or the poultry publication.
But we do invite Foster Farms on anytime.
We would love to dialogue with you.
We would love to discuss this with you.
You are reportedly the largest poultry producer in
California and you supply chickens to the biggest
(12:52):
supermarkets.
I mean, I saw the list of supermarkets.
It's the supermarkets that everybody shops at.
And so I have to ask you, Ben,
ultimately this is a consumer issue.
I mean, if people are watching this and
it's upsetting them, and then they go out
and they buy the chickens, they're the ones
(13:12):
paying for the production of these chickens.
Yeah, they might not be the people directly
committing the cruelty to animals, but they are
paying the people who are committing the cruelty.
And so the best thing that any individual,
any of your viewers can do, which I'm
sure they do, is to stop feeding animals,
period.
You're right about Foster Farms and their customers.
(13:34):
They supply Albertsons and Walmart and Kroger, among
others that listed on their website.
And I think the store should also be
taking some responsibility here.
They should be saying to Foster Farms, you
know, this is unacceptable.
We will not stop your products anymore.
But we know it's ultimately a business decision
when you are paying very little amount of
(13:56):
money per bird and then you're forcing people
to put it on their plates.
That's unfortunately the reality, is that it's a
problem where the costs are externalised to the
animals themselves.
People paying to eat chicken, it's the animals
(14:18):
that eventually pay the ultimate price.
And this is the way that animals are
farmed in this country.
Well, I wanna say that at Unchained TV,
you know, and there you are, right there
on Unchained TV behind me.
If you're watching, we're a streaming network that
is available for free download.
(14:39):
We're a 501C3 nonprofit available for free download
on any cell phone, just put in Unchained
TV, on any television with an Apple TV
device, a Amazon Fire Stick or a Roku
device.
We're also available on all Samsung TVs and
soon to be all LG TVs.
(15:00):
But we just commissioned a documentary done by
a woman who runs a chicken sanctuary.
And you have to watch, it's called Meet
the Chickens.
And it's really, really fascinating because it shows
that chickens, which a lot of people just
think of as sort of like a nugget
are individuals and they have very unique personalities
(15:25):
each and every one of them.
Like everything I thought about them was wrong.
And I think that as a society, everything
that we think about them, if we think
about them at all is wrong.
They are all individuals with unique personalities, unique
(15:47):
faces and voices and preferences, likes and dislikes,
little idiosyncrasies.
They're just as individual as our dogs and
our cats.
And I think if society knew who they
really are, we would treat them a lot
(16:12):
better than we do.
We currently have 25 chickens here, all of
them rescues.
Most of them are Cornish crosses, these big
white birds.
They are considered meat birds, broiler chickens.
(16:33):
We kill about 9 billion of them a
year in this country alone.
So it's not really an overstatement to say
that it's a miracle that any of them
have made it here.
Oh man, this documentary and it's not graphic
unlike the video we're showing you today, but
please check it out.
It's on Unchained TV and it was done
(16:54):
by a woman who has actually, the woman
you're looking at, Tracy Glover.
She doesn't have experience as a documentarian, but
we just gave her a mic and a
stabiliser and she pulled off this really touching
half hour documentary about these individual chickens that
she has rescued, each with their own story.
(17:18):
And as a human being, it's just then
when you see what is happening to these
chickens in industrialised factory farming, wow, it just
makes it even more difficult to really comprehend
the magnitude of what we're talking about, Ben.
(17:41):
I mean, the magnitude, the number of individuals,
it's mind boggling.
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about 15,000
birds on this one farm.
We know that the number of birds in
farms can go up to the several hundred
thousands.
And then ultimately, as you said, 9 billion
(18:04):
birds every year in the United States.
So it's an unimaginable scale really.
And we're very lucky in that we're able
to go into these places a few times
a year and really document what happens there
for people who, quite obviously, they want to
hide the truth from the consumers.
(18:24):
We're able to go in and take this
footage and then hopefully get charges put against
the people responsible and the corporations responsible, but
it doesn't happen enough because we're still not
able to get this message through necessarily to
everybody.
There's a vast gap between what people think
these animals' lives are like and the reality
(18:45):
that we show every time we do one
of these investigations.
And it's through people like you, Jane, and
your show, and everyone who's watching, it's really
up to all of us to help share
these investigations, tell people who don't otherwise know
just what goes on here and show them
for themselves.
Because I think seeing is really believing.
And once you see this, it's really hard
(19:06):
to imagine that there's anything else other than
this kind of stuff going on.
So tell us about the person.
I know you can't reveal his or her
identity, but tell us about the person who
recorded all this.
They have to go in there day after
day and essentially, what?
They are working there?
What happens?
(19:28):
Yeah, they're part of the catching crew.
Obviously, I don't want to give up too
much about how we conduct these things for
their safety and for the integrity of the
campaign, of the investigations.
But yeah, it's a horrible thing to have
to see this and not react as any
human being surely would with any sympathy in
(19:48):
caring for these birds.
The most important thing is that they document
the cruelty, that we're able to press charges
and hold people and corporations accountable for what
they're seeing and what they're being asked to
be part of.
And ultimately, we'll save more animals that way.
But yeah, it's a horrifying thing to have
(20:08):
to do this, to keep up a pretence,
to be party to it, to stand by
and not do anything about it other than
film and document and record and take notes.
All of these notes, all of the footage
helps build the case, not only for people
to go vegan, but also for the law
enforcement to do their job and hold people
accountable.
(20:30):
And what's really interesting is, and I want
to say, we invite foster farms on any
time to respond further.
We've read your statement.
Now, this is off their website, American Humane
Association certified.
They say they're certified by the American Humane
Association and that the chickens they raise enjoy
the five freedoms, freedom from hunger or thirst,
(20:53):
freedom from discomfort, freedom from injury, pain or
disease, freedom from cages, freedom from fear and
distress.
What is your response to foster farms' five
freedoms?
I mean, it's a bit of a joke,
isn't it really?
There's no way that you can see the
footage of the birds being thrown into the
(21:15):
cages, being run over by forklift trucks and
then think that they're free from discomfort or
injury.
Also, we know that the investigator recorded that
the temperatures exceeded 100 degrees.
You know, they're not free from thirst or
hunger or discomfort for those reasons as well.
So yeah, I mean, it's a bit of
(21:37):
a joke.
It's a bit of humane washing.
And, you know, unfortunately it will probably continue.
It will probably, American Humane will, might come
out and say something similar, like this is
horrible, we don't condone this, but then very
little is going to happen as a result.
So that's why it's up to all of
us to take action ourselves and to be
(21:58):
responsible for making sure this cruelty doesn't go
on by, you know, forcing these corporations to
stop the business of chicken farming.
Have you reached out to the American Humane
Association and shown them this video and said,
hey, you're certifying this company, this, I mean,
have you talked to them?
(22:20):
I wouldn't know what the investigators did before
I got here a week and a half
ago, but I can tell you that American
Humane will likely respond at least internally to
say that this is horrible.
It doesn't conform to our standards of the
five freedoms.
It doesn't conform to the standards of healthy,
(22:41):
enriching lives for these birds.
But how many times do you have to
see such a thing before you say, well,
actually this is endemic and the kind of
businesses that are taking our label and using
our brand as a humane shield before you
say enough is enough and we're not going
to certify foster farms or, you know, any
(23:03):
of these types of businesses again.
Yeah, now, Tracy Winter Glover, who is the
person who did the documentary, Meet the Chickens,
which I really urge you to watch on
Unchained TV, she says, people will say this
is an anomaly, but the truth is it's
the norm, just unbearably heartbreaking.
You know, what's your response to that?
Because again, if we go back to the
(23:24):
statement by the company, they're saying, you know,
this is not acceptable.
We reported the people doing this to authorities
and they're going to be prosecuted.
Yeah, I think again, it's a shirking responsibility
as a corporation.
You know, these individuals were employed by foster
(23:45):
farms.
The birds were owned, so to speak, by
foster farms.
The farms were owned by foster farms.
To say that this is just a few
bad apples, it's your company that is not
putting in the supervision necessary to safeguard the
health and lives of these animals, to make
sure that these things don't happen to them.
(24:06):
You can't just say they didn't play by
our rules.
If you're not enforcing your rules, then you
are responsible for what happens underneath them.
So you took this video to the Fresno
County District Attorney's Office.
And, you know, we know historically, and there's
cases up and down California and other parts
of the nation where the district attorneys refuse
(24:29):
to prosecute.
They might sometimes prosecute the individuals.
It seems like foster farms was saying they
will be prosecuted.
I would think that would be up to
the district attorney to make that announcement, but
maybe he or she will.
But will they go after the corporation?
Did you ask them to go?
(24:50):
After the corporation and filed charges against the
corporation, and if so, what was their response?
We did.
Foster Farms, we believe, is culpable for the
actions of its employees here.
And California, as I said, is pretty unique.
It has a good, relatively to some other
states, a good penal code, which allows for
(25:10):
prosecutions to be brought up against, in fact,
invites prosecutions to be brought against companies for
the behaviour of its employees.
So we think the DA will agree with
us and agree that Foster Farms is culpable
and not really buy what Foster Farms is
selling here, which is trying to say it's
(25:31):
the action of a few individuals that this
situation has been dealt with, we've fired them,
we're retraining.
You know, that's not good enough.
And just because, well, even if it was
no longer going on, even if the retraining
does work, it still happened.
And Foster Farms and its employees need to
be held accountable for the abuses that we've
(25:52):
seen.
So what did the DA say?
Were you able to have a discussion with
anybody from that office?
The case is ongoing.
We're in communication with the DA.
So we're just awaiting the next steps on
their behalf.
And as I say, we're confident that they
will agree that there have been egregious violations
of California's cruelty to animals statutes here.
(26:15):
And that Foster Farms, its employees, its supervisors
are all responsible.
So do you ever get to dialogue with
Foster Farms?
I mean, I tried, as you saw, calling,
emailing, filling out a form on the website,
did not get a response.
Now, again, I invite Foster Farms on anytime
(26:38):
to respond further.
They did issue a statement, we read it.
And so do you ever get to dialogue
with Foster Farms?
So I've held a number of positions and
maybe we'll talk a little bit more about
my background in the past.
So working for other organisations that try to
(27:03):
do a bit more corporate engagement, we see
these organisations, we see chicken companies put up
a wall to anyone in the animal protection
movement.
They are just not interested in what we
have to say.
They use their pay to play humane shields
and they try to do everything that they
can through deceptive marketing practises to convince everyone
(27:24):
that everything's rosy.
And as far as engaging with the animal
protection community, it's just not something that they
welcome and that they're receptive to.
They will occasionally try to make piecemeal changes
and get the support of some people in
the animal protection community.
But as far as people like myself who
(27:46):
are calling for people to stop eating animals,
it's not in their business interest to necessarily
engage.
And so they'd rather just stonewall us, spend
a lot more money on marketing than we
have in our total operating budgets.
This is a $3 billion company, as you
said, the largest in California.
They can just purport through marketing efforts that
(28:08):
they're doing something completely different to what we're
able to expose on a month-long investigation.
So no, they're not very receptive to engagement
at all in my experience.
What about fines?
Somebody said here, the company needs to be
heavily fined.
Is this regulated?
So is it really just about the DA
making an arbitrary decision as to whether or
(28:31):
not to file criminal charges?
What regulations are being broken?
And what about legal action that is not
criminal on the civil side?
Yeah, it's all a possibility.
The first port of call is for the
DA to get involved and take it on
from a government perspective.
There are other legal avenues open if that
(28:52):
doesn't happen.
Fines are one of the punishments that we
see sometimes doled out.
Certainly not enough.
As you say, often the prosecutors just won't
pick up the case and use some really
poor reasoning as far as we're concerned to
shirk responsibility themselves and not hold these corporations
to account.
(29:13):
Fines, penalties, sentences, bans from working with animals
are other ways that people have been held
responsible in the past.
But I don't think anyone can kind of
see this, the footage that we've documented and
say that there's really much punishment that can
fit the crime of what they've put these
(29:34):
birds through.
So one of our commenters who happens to
be watching on YouTube, I believe, can I
support while still eating meat or will you
hate me?
What's your response?
I don't hate anybody.
It's a personal journey going vegan and food
is such a personal thing with so many
(29:56):
different social societal factors involved in people's decision
-making.
We think that when people see the kind
of footage that our investigators are able to
capture, when they learn more about the issues,
there's no other conclusion than to go vegan.
But we know that food preferences evolve over
time and that people's vegan journey can be
(30:20):
long and they can come at it from
many different ways.
But ultimately, you as a consumer, if you
don't want this kind of thing to happen,
the only real thing you can do is
to not participate in animal agriculture by leaving
animals off your plate.
And if you are just joining us, we've
been reporting breaking news.
I believe Unchained TV is the first news
(30:42):
organisation to put out this video that was
obtained by Animal Outlook over this past summer.
An undercover investigator was there for about a
month at a foster farm's facility and saw
some pretty horrifying things.
There's a forklift running over live birds and
(31:04):
birds were left alive, suffering.
You can see what's going on here.
In one instance, a driver crashes forklift into
a building.
I mean, these are drivers who have these
chickens.
I honestly, I don't really have any words
(31:25):
for this video to describe it.
Sure, you could sit there and describe it,
but it's like, to me personally, my feeling,
it's like watching a horror show.
And this is California's largest poultry producer.
I wanna say that again.
This is California's largest poultry producer.
(31:45):
When you're going to the supermarkets, the biggest
supermarkets in California, there's a very good chance
if you're getting chicken that came from this
situation.
So, you know, here's the thing though.
I wanna say this.
We, I personally, as a journalist who has
(32:05):
been doing this now for several decades, I
have covered situations like this over and over
and over again, various companies.
Indeed, one could argue that it is very
rare.
Maybe it's never even happened where you go
into a factory farm for animals and everything's
hunky-dory.
(32:26):
It seems to me my personal experience on
the industry as a whole is that every
time investigators have gone in and they're investigators
from Animal Outlook and from Animal Equality and
from PETA and from Last Chance, I mean,
it goes on and on.
Organisations have been doing this for the longest
time.
They find disturbing situations.
(32:49):
They just find things that people go, oh
my God, oh my God, this is horrible.
And nevertheless, I just wanna show you a
graphic and I'm gonna stop this video for
a second to show you the graphic.
Here's the graphic.
Animal consumption continues to skyrocket.
(33:11):
This is from like the early 60s to
2022.
You can see that the number of animals
is skyrocketing and chickens are the most by
far consumed animal.
If we stopped eating chickens, the number of
(33:31):
animals killed would dramatically drop by something like
more than 90%.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben.
No, you're absolutely right.
Unfortunately, even though we've exposed numerous chicken farms
and other kinds of farms, numerous corporations who
(33:52):
are involved in this cruelty, even though it's
all available on our website, animaloutlook.org, for
anyone to access at any time, sadly, the
kind of cognitive dissonance of people just buying
what the industry is selling and buying the
lies, the myths, the humane washing just makes
(34:13):
people feel okay and more comfortable about eating
animals when it's just the reality is so
different from what the companies are putting out
there.
So yeah, sadly, the number is increasing.
At some stage, we do hope that we
reach peak meat, as they call it, and
it starts dropping.
We'd know that plant-based meat substitutes are
(34:35):
getting better and better and more widely available.
We do think as information becomes more dispersed
and more available to people, and that people
will make the right decision and leave animals
off their plates and go for some of
the more delicious plant-based meat substitutes if
that's the way they wanna go.
(34:56):
But yeah, it's a sad state of affairs
that no matter how many times we do
these investigations, we know that the kind of
societal pressures, family, community, the type of messaging
that works.
We've done a lot of work on behavioural
sciences in recent years.
I think that's one of the best things
that the movement has done in recent years
is really try to understand what's involved in
(35:17):
people's decision-making, from nudge behaviour and behavioural
sciences.
But we're not there yet.
The message isn't getting through in the way
that we want it to.
Your audience is fantastic, and I'm sure everyone
is more enlightened than most who watch your
show, but it's up to all of us,
I think, to share the responsibility of getting
(35:37):
these messages out to make sure that we
start to bring that graph down.
Yes, and I just wanna read some of
the comments.
I've been vegan for 20 years and I'll
die vegan.
FYI, we all start out vegan.
Interesting point.
Tiffany Brunelli, there is no right way to
do the wrong thing.
Leave it off your plate.
And we also have a statement from Kim
(36:02):
Delgado.
Oh, geez, the numbers of eating animals should
be dropping.
All these years, all the information.
We must continue to get the truth out
there.
Tina, the workers don't get paid much.
Workers don't get paid much.
Don't pay the abuse and murder of these
innocent beings.
Go vegan.
(36:22):
And it was very interesting to get this
message from Erin Wing, who I know is
a former undercover investigator at Animal Outlook who
has been given awards for her courageous and
really risky undercover investigations.
She says, after conducting and managing investigations into
multiple chicken farms and farming facilities over the
(36:44):
course of seven years, the treatment is always
the same, brutal and heartbreaking.
And I think that what we have to
consider is when you're talking these kinds of
numbers, billions of animals being killed.
I mean, millions and millions and millions of
(37:04):
chickens have been killed in the amount of
time we've been talking today.
How can you do that nicely?
Is there any possible way to do that
nicely?
Or does the sheer number result in, well,
the footage that you revealed to the public
that we are showing you now, Ben?
(37:24):
Yeah, there's no such thing as humane meat.
There are degrees of barbarity and inhumaneness, but
there's no way to take the life of
an animal humanely because ultimately they don't want
to die.
They don't want to be treated in this
way and in any way that means that
(37:45):
they'll be killed prematurely in a fraction of
their natural lifespan.
So the only thing to do is to
stop eating them altogether.
Now, I will say that part of this
footage, actually, we weren't able to show as
much of the cruelty as we recorded.
(38:06):
There were so many incidences of birds being
thrown into those cages, so many incidences of
the forklifts being driven over the birds who
have been grown so large for their breast
meat that their bodies can't support, their legs
can't support their own weight, that they couldn't
get out of the way.
And rather than stopping the forklift, moving the
(38:28):
animals out of the way, it's just more
expedious, it's more profitable to run the animals
over and count that as a loss.
Well, Tracy Glover is saying exactly, this is
the chicken industry.
How can we expect the workers to see
these babies for the individual sentient beings they
are when we say their lives don't matter?
They, meaning the workers, become desensitised.
(38:50):
They couldn't do their jobs if they didn't
become desensitised.
It's inevitable there will be this abuse.
This is an industry that by definition is
based on violence and death.
So I have to ask you, Ben, are
the workers then sort of scapegoated if you
take her point of view?
(39:10):
They're gonna be punished possibly.
The company says they're gonna be prosecuted.
Take it away.
Yeah, absolutely.
The companies are trying, you can see in
their statement that Foster Farm is trying to
scapegoat these few bad apples, as they say,
that they're blaming the poorest of the whole
Foster Farms organisation, which is the lowest paid
(39:31):
workers in the system.
But Foster Farms knows that this type of
abuse takes place in its supply chain.
And they're simply just trying to deflect any
criticism and shirk corporate responsibility for the abuse
that we've uncovered and that is constantly uncovered.
We've got investigations going back to 2015 with
Foster Farms and other organisations do as well.
(39:54):
So yeah, this takes place all over the
country, a whole number of all the top
chicken producers in the country.
You'll find this kind of place completely commonplace.
Well, we've got another long comment here.
Okay, so I don't like eating meat for
the main reason because of all the unnecessary
treatment and cruelty toward these sentient beings.
(40:15):
And you can get all your necessary nutrients
in other ways, but I have dogs that
eat raw because it is better for them.
It bothers me sometimes when I have to
prepare their food.
And yes, the entire animal is used, but
I don't know what else healthy you could
give them to eat.
Myself not eating is one thing, but what
about our pets?
Well, I have two dogs and this one
(40:36):
here is one of the two and she's
100% vegan.
And my gosh, her energy level is off
the charts.
She's perfectly healthy.
So there's plenty of vegan options for your
companion animals.
Just wanted to answer that question there.
Let's talk a little bit about you.
(40:57):
You're very modest, but you have an incredible,
I was reading it and I could be
going on all day, recycled paper by the
way, talking about all the different things you've
done.
You're originally from London, my favourite city.
I have to say one of my favourite
cities, but really my favourite city.
(41:17):
And you worked at PETA, United Kingdom, PETA
US.
Then you were the director at World Animal
Protection and then the executive director at Compassion
World Farming.
Wow.
Tell us about your journey, Ben.
Yeah, I'm very happy to.
So I'll start you off at the beginning.
(41:39):
My vegan origin story was, I came from
the kind of Gary Francione school.
I really got into the abolitionist approach.
That was my entry point into the world
of veganism.
And just the arguments that they were making
completely made sense.
That there is no way to do this
ethically and really abolitionism is the only way
(42:03):
to go.
So at the time, my background was actually
in economics.
I did economics at university and I did
my master's in political economy at London School
of Economics.
And I was working for an economics think
tank in the city of London.
And it was around the time of the
financial crisis in 2008, 2009.
(42:24):
And there was a lot of demand from
the press to know what would happen with
labour market, with interest rates and taxes.
And so I was doing a lot of
press at the time.
And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great
to be able to combine my skillset, which
increasingly was press with my passion, which was
(42:45):
increasingly veganism.
And so I joined PETA.
They were the largest animal organisation, the first
one in my kind of sphere of influence.
And I had a very enjoyable career with
PETA for seven years, first in the U
.S., sorry, first in the UK, in my
hometown of London.
And then I moved, I was lucky enough
(43:06):
to move to Los Angeles with PETA.
Up until about 2019.
And then, as you say, I moved into
campaigns from press and then more organisational responsibility
after that.
So yeah, I've been around, I've been lucky
enough to study under the tutelage of some
great leaders in our organisation, Ingrid Newkirk and
(43:27):
Steve McIver and Phil.
So compassion.
And so it's just really, I'm really grateful
to have studied under some great inspirational people
and to be able now to bring that
to Animal Outlook.
As I say, I'm two weeks into the
job or not even two weeks into the
job.
(43:47):
But I think Animal Outlook, in terms of
what the parts of what I think is
going to help move the needle for animals
is really on point.
People don't know it's a 29-year organisation.
We're gonna celebrate our 30th year next year.
It started out as a homework, kind of
a high school club.
And has developed into one of the leading
(44:09):
kind of mid-size organisations in the animal
protection movement.
The focus on investigations and legal work and
vegan outreach and now farmer transitions as well
is something that I think fits the skill
sets that I've learned in communications and campaigns.
My job is really, as I see it,
to help amplify that work and bring, deliver
(44:31):
some of the amazing investigations and legal groundbreaking
legal cases that we've done.
We can continue to do to more of
the mainstream public.
So to ask you a provocative question, I
see that back, I would say 20 years,
15 years ago, 20 years ago, the mainstream
(44:52):
media was more likely to cover an undercover
investigation.
Now I've noticed that they often pretend it
didn't happen.
And that's one of the reasons we started
Unchained TV, the world's only non-profit vegan
streaming television network to get these stories out.
I even said to you, who else has
(45:13):
covered this?
Now, now that Foster Farms has issued a
statement, maybe I hope there will be more
coverage.
We never want the exclusive on stories like
this, never.
But one of the reasons we started it
is that it's, to me, it feels more
and more, and I was in mainstream media
for more than three decades, that the mainstream
media has been co-opted by the meat,
dairy, and pharmaceutical industries, which are very intertwined.
(45:37):
And so you're not seeing the kind of
reporting that you even saw back 20 years
ago when it comes to these undercover investigations.
What are your thoughts on that?
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that that has been my
experience as well.
I think a couple of things are happening.
(45:58):
Yes, the mainstream media is kind of getting
scared off by the litigiousness of some of
these companies.
They don't want to put their head above
the parapet because they're wondering, well, what if
I get sued?
As a media organisation, if I'm giving a
voice to allegations that end up not having
any reality, I think that- Well, let
me just say this.
(46:19):
I understand what you're saying, and I'm always
very cautious as a journalist.
You presented videotaped evidence.
Now, sometimes in past, the companies go, this
was taken out of context.
Honestly, they didn't suggest that.
They said, Foster Farms, and I'll read the
statement again, and we invite Foster Farms on
(46:41):
any time.
We would love to dialogue with you.
It says, as quoted in this poultry publication,
four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a few
employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare and
training standards and procedures.
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated
those involved and referred them to the Fresno
(47:02):
County Law Enforcement, where they will be prosecuted
to the fullest extent of the law, said
Randy Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything
we stand for as a company, and our
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.
You are saying the company itself is responsible.
You're asking the Fresno County District Attorney's Office
(47:24):
to prosecute the company, and we invite the
Fresno County District Attorney's Office on, so there
is the response from the company.
They're not saying this didn't happen.
They're not saying what companies often say is,
this was taken out of context.
(47:44):
They're saying, yeah, this is not like some
Hollywood production where it was made to look
like.
They're saying this happened.
They're acknowledging it.
Yeah, I mean, there might be a slight,
slight of hand in their statements.
They might, they haven't exactly linked it to
the video that we filmed, but ultimately they're
(48:07):
accepting that there has been some degree of
cruelty to animal violations that have taken place
at their farms, and they are saying that
they've taken responsibility for it, which, you know,
we would argue that they haven't until they
face themselves the- What would you like
to see the company do?
Well, ultimately, I think the company needs to
(48:29):
get out of the business of chicken farming.
As we know, chicken farming is, you can't
detach cruelty to animals from chicken farming.
We see it every time, but yeah, these
workers should never be allowed to work with
chickens.
Again, the supervisors should be held responsible, the
board of Foster Farm should be held responsible,
and it's ultimately up to law enforcement to
(48:51):
decide in this particular case which charges move
forward and how responsible Foster Farms is held.
But I would say as well, to go
back to our point about media, you know,
I could talk about media's willingness to embrace
these things all the time.
It's kind of a, it's a bit of
a paradox because we see so much of
this cruelty in investigations.
(49:12):
We do three or four of these kinds
of investigations a year.
The media's just a little, let's say, almost
tired of it.
It's more of a, it's like a man
bites dog.
What else is new?
We know that cruelty to animals exists in
factory farms.
We know it happens.
So they kind of think nothing's new, but
at the same time, we know that their
audience doesn't know this stuff.
(49:32):
We know that we ourselves as animal protection
advocates, we're constantly surprised by the degree of
cruelty that we see on these farms.
So, you know, it's a very strange state
of affairs where the media organisations say, oh,
this is just what happens.
But for some reason that is not getting
out to the public.
And please share this out.
(49:53):
We are streaming this on our streaming network
where you can comment as well as Facebook,
YouTube, X, LinkedIn, share it out.
You know, if indeed you're not gonna get
mainstream media coverage on this, then the only
(50:15):
way that we can do it is through
independent media, which is what we are, and
through people sharing it out.
And there it is when somebody says, I'm
sharing this out on every platform, it's a
click.
And that's, you never know the impact.
I actually sent this to somebody who, I
(50:36):
think we all have a situation where there's
somebody that we like very much, but they
completely disregard our position when it comes to
animal activism and veganism.
And I have a friend like that.
And, you know, I was looking at this
and I just texted her the link.
And I said, three minutes, watch it.
I didn't say anything else.
(50:57):
And she responded, this is sad.
That was it.
But I said, I appreciate you taking the
time to watch.
Thank you.
I didn't really wanna say anything more.
I don't wanna fight with people.
I just wanted her to see it.
Because one of the hard things is to
get people to watch these videos.
You know, that's why we have Unchained TV.
(51:20):
We have a lot of fun, upbeat videos,
cooking shows and reality TV shows and fun,
upbeat coverage.
But then mixed in with that is some
of these more serious, disturbing videos.
So, exactly.
Well, we only have a couple minutes.
I wanted to get your thoughts for where
(51:42):
Animal Outlook is going to go.
And, you know, having worked with many, many
different animal rights organisations over decades now, I
would say that, you know, what stands out
to me about Animal Outlook, and I've interviewed
some of the undercover investigators who, to me,
are the bravest people in the entire movement,
is your undercover investigations.
You're known for that.
(52:03):
Is there anything else you're gonna be focused
on?
Well, I really like the strategy that Cheryl
and my predecessor and Erica before have laid
out for Animal Outlook.
You know, it all starts with investigations.
That's how we get the truth.
That's how we know what's going on.
From there, we have a legal strategy.
We want impact legal advocacy, something that's not
(52:23):
only going to prosecute a few people at
a time, but actually something that's replicable that
other organisations, other firms can then use to
litigate properly in their jurisdictions.
That can be scalable and hold the whole
industry and the whole animal protection, the whole
animal farming system to account.
(52:44):
From there, obviously we use the investigations, the
legal work to create a vegan movement, to
say that there is no alternative to animal
cruelty within the animal farming industry.
Going vegan is the only way to actually,
to end the cruelty.
So vegan outreach has to be like the
tip of the spear really, because that's what
(53:06):
any single, that's the most, the best thing
that any single individual can do.
And from there, it's about just transition.
So helping farmers escape, because farmers are trapped
in this system too.
Farmers are under enormous amounts of debt when
they go into chicken farming, building the barns
and being responsible to the integrators usually, and
helping them transition out of animal farming so
(53:26):
that we can close that loop, having them
grow lettuce, having them grow mushrooms, having them
grow other things that do not harm, create
inequality to animals.
So really closing that loop and making sure
those things never happen again.
So I really like Animal Outlook's strategy of
how we go from the investigations all through
to the end, which is a more vegan
world.
Wow.
And do you think we're getting closer to
(53:48):
a more vegan world?
Because nothing goes straight up.
I mean, when Beyond Meat, for example, went
public, it was like a frenzy.
And then there was just an explosion of
plant-based restaurants, products, and now there's a
bit of a retrenchment because nothing ever goes
straight up, even the most successful stocks are
(54:09):
a bit of a craggy line.
Where do you think we are?
Unfortunately, I think it's something we're gonna be
forced into.
As humans, we don't kind of do much
until we're forced into it.
And we see what's going on with these
dreadful hurricanes in Florida now.
We know that animal agriculture is one of
the leading causes of climate change.
It's probably not going to be something that
(54:32):
we change until it's too late.
But if there are enough people calling for
it, we'll get there just in time and
we'll end animal agriculture while we still have
a planet to live on.
I just wanna say, Ben, it's been such
a delight speaking with you.
I find your backstory fascinating.
I know you're a very busy person, so
(54:52):
I wanna thank you for taking the time
to join us here on Unchained TV.
And I hope, if you haven't, that you
download our streaming network.
So it's a vegan Netflix.
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained, Unchained TV.
Your life will change.
It's just that easy.
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
(55:15):
everybody.
Unchained TV changed my life.
Unchained TV is crushing it.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained TV is my go-to.
Unchained TV, who knew?
Unchained, baby, yeah.
So download it.
(55:35):
The world's only vegan streaming network.
It's free.
You can download it on your phone, on
your TV, and you can also watch online
at unchainedtv.com.
See you next time.
Bye.
Thanks, Jen.
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