November 6, 2024 • 57 mins
Starbucks has dropped its surcharge for plant-based milks, a surcharge that was as high as 70 to 80 cents per drink. So, now, those who love soy, oat, almond and coconut milk are treated as equal citizens at Starbucks in US and Canadian stores. FINALLY! This is a monumental victory for the vegan movement! So, UnchainedTV is honoring two organizations that went all out in the battle to end this unfair penalty: PETA and Switch4Good. We talk to S4G’s Executive Director, Dotsie Bausch who is a vegan Olympic medalist & PETA’s Campaigns Manager Amber Canavan about the impact on animals, human health, climate change and OTHER coffee shops and outlets that still charge extra. How do we use this victory to get other stores to change? What are the implications for the societal move away from dairy? UnchainedTV’s Jane Velez-Mitchell digs for answers with two of the nation’s leading experts on the issue! Get involved: https://www.peta.org/ & https://switch4good.org/ & https://unchainedtv.com/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We have breaking news for you.
Fasten your seatbelts.
This is huge.
Stop everything you're doing.
Starbucks dropped their surcharge for the plant-based
milks.
Finally, do you know how long we've been
asking for this?
This is a huge victory for the vegan
(00:21):
movement, for the animal rights movement, for organisations
like PETA and Switch for Good.
No one should be paying extra for making
better choices for our planet, for themselves, and
for the animals.
It's a victory.
Now, the inside story of how it happened.
And it is making headlines around the world.
(00:41):
There you see it, VegNews, Starbucks drops dairy
-free surcharge, embracing all the ways our customers
enjoy their Starbucks.
This is a huge vegan victory.
Starbucks drops surcharge for non-dairy.
Starbucks won't charge extra for plant-based milk.
Other companies should follow suit.
So we've got representatives from two of the
(01:02):
leading organisations that made this happen, PETA and
Switch for Good.
I want to start with one of my
favourite people on the planet, Dotsie Bausch, vegan
Olympian who has literally devoted her life to
this issue.
And that's why she started Switch for Good.
So, Dotsie, tell us, what is the significance
(01:24):
of this surcharge being dropped by Starbucks?
Yeah, well, when we decided to go after
the largest coffee chain in the world, we
did it because we felt like if we
go big and we are successful, we knew
it was going to be a multi-year
(01:45):
approach, that it would trickle down to all
of the other coffee shops in the world.
And we definitely think that it will.
The reason behind it is simply to normalise
plant food, normalise plant milk.
We know that the 95% just wants
normal, right?
They want average.
They don't want things to be weird or
(02:06):
niche.
And by charging extra money, which is also
a certain form of dietary racism, which we
brought to light in this campaign and really
helped people to understand what that is, how
it gets developed and how it's incredibly unfair.
But it was all about normalising this plant
milk.
When something's normal and it's just on the
(02:27):
menu alongside the cow's milk, because we all
know the cow's milk is what should have
had the upcharge, then people feel free, open,
even excited to order a plant food, a
plant milk, because it's just the same and
they don't have to pay this niche extra
upcharge.
So it's about normalisation for us.
PETA was one of the other organisations that
(02:49):
led the charge.
These two groups were working, you know, hand
in hand, protests here, protests there.
We're going to show you and you can
hear some of these protests in a moment.
But Amber, what would you say is the
significance of this in the vegan movement, in
the animal rights movement, the dropping of this
surcharge?
Yeah, thanks for having us on.
(03:11):
PETA's been going after Starbucks for years.
And, you know, in order to get animals
out of these factory farms and out of
the dairy industry, we need to normalise and
make vegan foods more accessible.
So getting one of the largest chains that
is such a large seller of dairy products
(03:33):
is a huge win and it will have
ripple effects.
You know, now the smaller coffee chains will
have absolutely no excuse.
So we are looking very closely toward the
future on the ripple effects of this.
All right.
Well, one of the iconic moments of this
campaign was when Succession and Babe star James
(03:55):
Cromwell literally glued himself to a Starbucks counter.
Let's watch it and then we'll talk about
it on the other side.
A single cow emits more smog, farming pollutants
than a car.
One cow on a dairy farm also requires
50 gallons of water a day.
So we're in the vegan upcharge now because
(04:16):
they charge for vegan milk in there.
It does damage to the planet.
It does damage to people who ingest it,
who can't metabolise it.
And it's simple greed.
Wow.
Simple greed.
Now, do you think these campaigns alleging that
(04:39):
this was being done, this surcharge for simple
greed, were what turned the corner?
Or was it that Starbucks had started to
suffer economically because they were charging extra?
Because according to Starbucks' own account, the requests
(05:00):
for vegan milks, oat milk, soy milk, almond
milk, coconut milk, is the second most requested
customisation right after an extra shot of espresso,
which I could probably use right now myself.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Well, about 10 weeks before they dropped the
(05:24):
upcharge, we had been working with a whistleblower,
with an informant who worked inside at Starbucks
for some years.
And we uncovered quite a lot, which we
privately sent to Starbucks.
And I think maybe was their final lever
in the breaking to make this happen.
(05:45):
What we uncovered was absolute egregious price gouging.
Like we knew they made a lot of
money on this, right?
Because why else would they do it?
But what we uncovered was that they make
a 788% markup for almond milk, a
566% markup on soy milk, and 185
(06:07):
% markup on oat milk.
We know that they made a billion dollars
on these markups.
They charge 80 cents.
And almond milk, for example, that they charge
nine.
It costs nine cents and they charge 80
cents.
It's a 788% markup.
So revealing that we uncovered those numbers, and
(06:29):
then also revealing something that was almost even
more egregious, them going back to 2019 and
erasing and changing their climate baselines because they
recognised they were not going to make their
2025 target.
We have all of that paperwork and sent
it to them.
So those are two big surprises, I think,
(06:52):
for them, that they didn't realise that anyone
knew about either one of those.
And I think that Brian Nickell trying to
do the right thing, having to change and
really turn this entire company around from it
being in the toilet with the shareholders, didn't
want this out, either one of these facts.
And we invite Starbucks on any time.
(07:14):
I think we can all say kudos to
the new CEO, Brian Nickell, for making this
change.
So we applaud and congratulate him.
What we're doing is talking about how and
why it happened when it did, because the
protest by James Cromwell was two years ago.
So there have been protests for years demanding
(07:37):
this.
Let's take a look at some of the
protests organised by Switch for Good.
Put your money where your mouth is and
stop the upcharge of the plant-based milk
now.
What the hell is up, you guys?
My name is Jamie Logan, and we are
(07:58):
here in Los Angeles outside of Starbucks.
We are asking, we are demanding that they
drop the surcharge on plant-based milk.
And let's find out why.
Extra charges aren't fair.
Stop the upcharge, stop the green.
Keep our prices what we need.
(08:18):
So we are here because we have been
working for two and a half years trying
to get Starbucks to drop their plant milk
upcharge.
It's $0.70, $0.80, $0.80 at
the top.
Extra to have planet-friendly, animal-friendly, people
-friendly, health-friendly plant milk.
And as many of you know now, because
we've been doing this work for so long,
(08:39):
35% of Americans cannot digest dairy.
80% of people of colour all over
the world, it makes them sick, uncomfortable, and
in some cases, unable to breathe.
Yet that milk is free at Starbucks, and
they're charging for planet-friendly plant milk.
It's insanity.
(09:00):
So all those were excellent arguments, but-
I apparently had a lot of coffee before
that.
Wow.
I think they cut you off.
No more shots.
Exactly.
No more shots.
And you know what?
I've had this Starbucks coffee plastic cup for
(09:20):
about six years, and so I use it
every time I have to do an update
on Starbucks.
I haven't actually gone into Starbucks, however.
That may change now that they've eliminated the
upcharge.
I would be happy to go there.
Tomorrow.
Yeah, we're celebrating this.
So let me say this.
(09:41):
Those were all great reasons.
Climate change, suffering of animals, human health with
the huge amount of lactose intolerance in the
populace.
In fact, there's even been lawsuits surrounding that
issue.
But those are not what were cited in
news reports as the defining reason why this
(10:04):
happened.
It was more described as Starbucks is having
some problems with sales and wanted to appeal
to its customers.
So is this still a case of follow
the money at the end of the day,
DOTC?
And then we'll go to Amber.
I mean, most definitely.
(10:26):
And Amber and PETA know this even more
because they've been campaigning for 50 years, right,
that there is never a world where the
major multinational public corporation says, thank you, activists,
for letting us see our flaws.
Thank you for exposing the price gouging.
Thank you for exposing our corporate fraud and
(10:46):
changing.
Thank you for exposing the climate.
I mean, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, we're never going to know
exactly.
But I think because of all that both
of us have done on this, they were
done with the pressure.
They were done with it.
I mean, they just wanted to turn the
corner.
And I think that they didn't.
(11:07):
I know for sure that Brian did not
want the latest bits that we'd uncover revealed.
And they didn't want the pressure from PETA
anymore.
They just didn't want it.
Right.
He wanted to turn a new leaf.
He didn't want to deal with that.
And he turned it into a kind of
a conversation around its customisation season, the holidays.
And so we're going to make customisation easier
by not charging for plant milk.
(11:28):
So that's how they spun it.
And we were expecting nothing less.
Right, Amber?
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, PETA has been going after
Starbucks on this issue through multiple CEOs.
And, in fact, when Brian Nichol came on
board, we suspended our campaign because we were
(11:49):
so hopeful.
With his past history at the other companies
he worked at, you know, Chipotle having such
great vegan options.
You know, we were hopeful and it did
pay off.
And we're seeing now the massive PR move,
positive PR for them, that the previous CEOs
who are no longer with Starbucks really missed
(12:12):
out on.
And that really shows that doing the right
thing, whether they did it for the right
reasons or not, is a good business move.
And do you think it will, Amber, inspire
other companies to follow suit?
Absolutely.
We have been, you know, not just Starbucks,
there are some other handfuls of chains and
(12:34):
also individual coffee stores, right?
So the small coffee shops who might still
be charging extra maybe felt like they had
to because the big guys were.
And they needed to do that to remain
competitive.
So this is just showing that across the
board it is, you know, affordable and accessible.
And just the right thing to do for
any company that, you know, is trying to
(12:56):
appeal to customers who care about animals, care
about their carbon footprints, and just doing the
right thing.
And, you know, PETA has worked with so
many celebrities.
James Cromwell, and there is a building named
the James Cromwell Empathy Centre that is part
of PETA's overall headquarters.
In fact, Unchained TV just had a premier
(13:16):
party at the PETA Empathy Centre, the James
Cromwell PETA Empathy Centre.
And, you know, there's no better activist than
James Cromwell.
He is out there on the front lines
lending his fame and celebrity to this and
other issues when it comes to animal rights
and veganism.
Let's take a look at PETA's now iconic
(13:36):
commercial that they did to put pressure on
Starbucks to drop the extra charge, which Starbucks
has now done.
Starbucks cares.
We care about the world turning into a
giant burning hellscape.
And we care that you care that cow's
milk production emits about three times more greenhouse
(13:59):
gases than vegan milk.
We care, but you care more.
That's why we charge you up to 90
cents extra for our vegan milk.
Because when you really care, like you do,
it's a small price to pay.
And it's good that you pay, I mean,
care, because we also have other things to
care about.
Like the $1.6 million cash sign-on
(14:21):
bonus for our new CEO.
We care about profits.
Confused?
We're not.
You just keep caring about saving the world
and we'll keep caring about our savings account.
Because Starbucks cares about money.
Heck, it's right there in our name.
There you go.
(14:41):
Drink that in.
You take care now.
What a sophisticated campaign.
And the CEO he referred to is no
longer there.
Correct me if I'm wrong, replaced by Brian
Nickell, who came over from Chipotle because they
were struggling.
I mean, do you think at the end
(15:02):
of the day, it's just not smart business?
Like everybody's praising Brian Nickell as a very
smart business person.
He did drop the upcharge.
Is that the smart business move?
Couldn't it be also not just good for
the animals, good for human health, good for
(15:23):
the planet, but also good for business?
Why do those two have to be at
loggerheads, Dotsie?
Yeah.
I mean, I think they'll win a lot
of people over by doing it.
I also do think it's, you know, interesting
timing that it's customisation season and people want
to try all sorts of, you know, different
(15:43):
foofy drinks over the holidays and they'll make
some of the money up during that.
I won't be entirely shocked if the overall
prices of their beverages start to creep up
to make it back, because like I said,
it was a billion dollars for them last
year.
So that's a lot of money to let
go.
So they might get new customers.
(16:05):
That's where that exactly.
Yeah.
I used to go to Starbucks all the
time.
I just walk around with this thing for
four or five years.
Well, that's the question.
I mean, how many people were boycotting Starbucks
because of the plant milk?
I mean, that's what we don't they don't
know.
Yeah.
Boycotting, if not boycotting outright, just thinking, you
(16:25):
know, one of the issues that I've had
when I've gone in there.
And by the way, again, we invite Starbucks
on any time.
As as we've said at the start of
this broadcast, we applaud your decision.
So this isn't like attack Starbucks day.
This is applaud Starbucks day.
But we're trying to understand it and we're
trying to understand why it took so long
(16:46):
and why these two organisations, Switch for Good
and PETA, had to go to extreme lengths,
like getting movie stars to record fake commercials
and glueing themselves to a counter in order
to make the case.
For those who aren't animal activists, please know
(17:07):
that all campaigns start out with polite letters.
Right, Amber?
All campaigns start out with here's the facts
behind the scenes before anything public ever, ever
happened.
You know.
Yes.
Well, can you outline that?
Because people sometimes say, oh, why are they
protesting?
Yeah, I mean, any time you see PETA
(17:29):
has an action alert out against something, you
know, we've attempted to resolve things.
The best campaigns are the ones you never
have to launch in the first place.
And Starbucks previous CEOs, you know, just weren't
were open to it at the time.
It took a little bit of cajoling.
(17:50):
I've still got a scar on my hand
from the time I glued my hand to
their headquarters countertop.
But, you know, that scar is going to
fade and eventually and we'll be moving on
to, you know, on and on to the
next victories down the road.
And in fact, tomorrow, PETA is officially calling
(18:10):
off our boycott that we've been having with
support.
Starbucks Vegan Coffee Day is going to be
tomorrow.
So go in and get those soy lattes
and, you know, to keep working and keep
that caffeine up.
Well, I wanted to ask you what it
was like to glue, because I did have
(18:30):
questions about this.
I'm like, we all know glueing yourself, super
glueing yourself.
That's painful.
And how does it end?
I never quite got the answer.
Since you actually superglue yourself as well.
Can you tell us, please?
I went a little overboard and used an
entire tube of the superglue at the Starbucks
(18:53):
Reserve in their headquarters in Seattle.
They didn't really know what to do about
it.
And the firefighters tried many things.
A butter knife ended up being the main
thing that worked to get me out.
We were in there for a couple hours.
Wow.
It was an interesting experience.
(19:15):
And I had one hand glued with the
phone with the live stream the entire time.
Wow.
And you think it was worth it?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
They filed some charges and never pursued them.
So, you know, I was willing to go
the full way, but they just wanted to
(19:37):
get us out of there.
Yeah.
And I really think that's important because so
many people, I've been working with PETA for
decades now.
And as a journalist, always there, always there
saying, sure, I'll talk to you.
Sure.
I'll try to connect you with a celebrity
who might care about this, whatever the case
may be.
(19:58):
And I really hate it when people say
PETA.
Oh, they throw blood.
PETA hasn't thrown fake blood at anything in
I don't know how long.
I mean, that's got to be decades.
But they like to do that to kind
of dismiss.
What I say is, you know, journalists should
be covering this issue seriously and all the
(20:18):
other issues that PETA raises seriously.
But the truth is PETA has something like
19 lawyers.
They're filing Freedom of Information Act requests, holding
news conferences, putting out news releases.
But yet when they get the media attention
is when James Cromwell glues himself to a
supermarket, to a Starbucks counter or somebody gets
(20:39):
naked or almost naked.
In other words, these animal rights organisations are
put in a situation where they're completely ignored
when they're serious.
And then when they in desperation become somewhat
outlandish after begging for change politely, then they're
attacked for being outlandish.
Would you like to address that, Amber?
(21:01):
Yeah, it takes everything.
I mean, I've attended board meetings from giant
corporations.
And, you know, we've had Alicia Silverstone actually,
you know, called into a Starbucks board meeting
as well in the past.
But it sometimes takes steps, stepping things up
(21:21):
and taking some bold actions in a safe
way.
I mean, my hand was maybe in a
little danger that day, but it all ended
up fine.
And, you know, at the end of the
day, the planet is in crisis.
The animals are in crisis.
And, you know, we need to get active
and keep doing what we need to do
(21:42):
to keep these victories coming in, because the
animals really, really need us to step it
up.
And the people.
Let's hear a little bit more from the
protests that Dotsie Bausch organised outside a Starbucks.
I was there and her right hand man
also spoke.
(22:04):
Dairy and milk means stomach pain.
Starbucks coffee is to blame.
Plant based milk should not cost more.
Starbucks green, we do have more.
The intention of this campaign is to get
them to finally drop the plant based milk
upcharge.
What they have already done in the United
Kingdom, France, Chile, Germany, Japan and other major
(22:25):
World Cup countries.
They have resisted here in the US so
far.
This is their biggest market.
They make over we've estimated they make over
300 million dollars a year on the upcharge
alone.
Not just the drinks.
The upcharge.
Three hundred million dollars a year.
So this is part of our ongoing Justice
Cup campaign to get them to put their
money where their mouth is and actually finally
(22:45):
drop the upcharge for people, planet and the
animals.
That is why we are here today.
Thank you guys so much for being here.
All right.
So again, we applaud Starbucks for finally dropping
that surcharge for soy, almond, coconut and what
(23:07):
is it?
Oat milk.
OK.
And we have a lot of people saying,
yes, I'm going to go back and start
going to Starbucks.
Let me ask you a question.
Oh, that's quite a quite a comment there.
Let me ask you a question.
Do you think this is going to encourage
more people who are not vegan, who are
not plant based to try the vegan option?
(23:27):
Because that's another benefit from this Stasi.
It's not just people who are already drinking
plant based milks who will say, oh, now
I can go in there and and have
my soy latte without paying extra.
It's also people that maybe don't really try
the plant based milks that might be encouraged
to try them because they're not being charged
(23:48):
more.
Of course they will.
Yeah.
I mean, we know the stats.
We know that 80 to 97 percent of
people of colour just make some sick dairy
milk.
So absolutely.
It's a huge celebration for them to be
able to go in there and try these
different plant based milks.
And maybe some of them are, you know,
who have not been going to Starbucks as
well and and be able to enjoy their
(24:09):
coffee without running the bathroom afterwards.
I think it it will really encourage most
people.
I think curiosity alone, too, will encourage people
who aren't lactose intolerant.
What does that taste like?
I've always wondered about it.
People talk about it.
I mean, we're up to 44 percent of
U.S. households has plant make plant based
milk in the refrigerator.
(24:31):
We're close to reaching the tipping point of
50 percent household penetration.
I mean, some of those households may also
have dairy milk, but that is a massive
step forward.
So they're drinking at home, is my point.
So they are absolutely going to go to
the coffee shop and be excited to be
able to order it for free.
And what I want to ask you is
(24:52):
what can the rest of the plant based
movement learn from the success of the dairy
sector?
I think it's fair to say and correct
me if I'm wrong, but my observation is
that the milk alternatives, the dairy free milk
alternatives, soy milk, rice milk, almond milk, oat
milk, the list goes on and on.
(25:15):
I've seen hemp milk.
I've seen all sorts of sort of even.
But it's the most successful aspect of the
plant based movement.
I mean, it's taking over the supermarket shelves.
When I check out, I'm always looking around.
I'm seeing so many people, even in, you
know, not like just fancy grocery stores.
But I was just at Smart and Final
(25:36):
two days ago.
The guy behind me has got the plant
based milks.
What can we learn from the success of
the plant based milk sector about what we
need to do with other sectors, particularly meat
alternatives?
Yeah, well, I mean, we also know that
(25:56):
that Gen Z, 49 percent of Gen Z,
almost half of them are embarrassed to order
dairy in public.
So the younger generation, they get it.
They get it for all the reasons.
And they're certainly pushing hard.
And I think what we can learn is
I mean, that's why we focus on this
from day one at Switch for Good, because
I have and will always believe that dairy
(26:19):
is the way in to a plant based
vegan world.
People are accepting the dairy alternatives.
They like them.
They're bringing them into their house.
They make them feel great.
We've already discussed how many people dairy makes
feel terrible.
And because of that, people have this almost
like religious experience when they drop dairy and
(26:41):
feel better in five days, six days, seven
days.
I mean, it's a really short period of
time.
And then they get excited about feeling that
much better and their health improving.
And then they start asking questions about what
else could they do to make themselves feel
better?
Unfortunately, we don't have that with a chicken
sandwich.
Nobody feels better if they drop chicken.
You drop all of it.
Things start to change.
(27:03):
But I think dairy is the way in
to dropping all of the meat.
And the more of us that recognise that
and start to work on what is working
and pushing that and finally breaking that lever
of dairy, they're almost on their way out.
They're not keeping themselves in business.
Meat is keeping themselves in business.
(27:23):
Our federal government is keeping dairy in business.
Seventy three percent of their income comes from
the feds.
So they are teetering.
And it's going to take all of us
to push them over.
And then we can go, you know, sector
to sector to sector and win this.
Well, I think you're absolutely right in terms
of kids aren't just sitting down like out
(27:43):
of a leave it to beaver TV show.
You know, these are 60s and drinking an
entire glass of milk.
They don't do it anymore.
So there's been a cultural shift and that's
the kind of cultural shift we need in
other sectors.
Amber, do you have any thoughts on what
we can learn from the success of the
dairy alternative movement in terms of what we
(28:07):
can do with other sectors in the plant
based food market?
Well, the other big thing with dairy, aside
from Starbucks, you know, which we don't need
to worry about anymore, is is is cheese
consumption is still, you know, something that needs
to be hammered on.
And the you know, the vegan cheeses are
(28:28):
getting better and better all the time.
So that is the kind of secondary dairy
related campaign that PETA has been focussing on.
Just getting people to try it because the
numbers of people trying it, they're more likely
to be more comfortable picking it up off
the grocery store shelf or the vegan burger
(28:50):
that has vegan cheese on it at the
restaurants.
Vegan mac and cheese.
It's, you know, it's all there ready to
go.
And that's that's kind of the next the
next hurdle we're looking at.
We've been giving away like tens of thousands
of samples of vegan cheese, just getting people
to try it because just like the soy
and oat milk with your cookie or whatever
(29:12):
we've been giving away at, you know, activism
events and booths.
We just need to get them to try
it and say, hey, I had some misconceptions
about that.
If you're just joining us, we're celebrating a
victory.
Starbucks has ended its vegan milk upcharge in
the United States and Canada after a powerful
campaign.
(29:33):
We have PETA and Switch for Good, the
two leading organisations that worked very hard to
make this happen.
And there's just happiness all the way around.
Stop everything you're doing.
Starbucks dropped their surcharge for the plant based
milk.
Finally, do you know how long we've been
asking for this?
(29:53):
This is a huge victory for the vegan
movement, for the animal rights movement, for organisations
like PETA and Switch for Good.
No one should be paying extra for making
better choices for our planet, for themselves and
for the animals.
It's a victory.
Now, the inside story of how it happened.
And I have to play once again Dotsie
(30:15):
Bausch at her protest because she was in
fuego outside Starbucks.
Put your money where your mouth is and
stop the upcharge of the plant based milk
now.
What the hell is up, you guys?
My name is Jamie Logan and we're here
(30:37):
in Los Angeles outside of Starbucks.
We are asking, we are demanding that they
drop the surcharge on plant based milk.
And let's find out why.
Extra charges aren't fair.
Stop the stopping doesn't care.
Stop the upcharge, stop the greed.
Keep our prices what we need.
So we are here because we have been
(30:58):
working for two and a half years trying
to get Starbucks to drop their plant milk
upcharge.
It's 70, 80 cents, 80 cents at the
top.
Extra to have planet friendly, animal friendly, people
friendly, health friendly plant milk.
And as many of you know now because
we've been doing this work for so long,
35% of Americans cannot digest dairy.
(31:22):
80% of people of colour all over
the world, it makes them sick, uncomfortable and
in some cases unable to breathe.
Yet that milk is free at Starbucks and
they're charging for planet friendly plant milk.
It's insanity.
So when you think about it and I'd
like to get your response, both of you
(31:43):
to this.
Amber, shouldn't they be charging more for dairy?
Right now we have equal price.
Thanks to this breakthrough where Starbucks agreed to
drop the surcharge for vegan milks like soy
milk, oat milk, rice milk, coconut milk, whatever
milks they carry in their various stores.
(32:04):
I know they mixed it up quite a
bit.
But if you think about what Doxie said,
the impact on the climate, the impact on
human health with the high levels of lactose
intolerance and obviously the cruelty as well.
Wouldn't it be smarter to either eliminate dairy
entirely or charge more for the privilege of
(32:25):
drinking the breast milk of cows if that's
what you really want to do?
Yeah, we had suggested that, you know, to
Starbucks in the past that, you know, the
prices should even out.
If you're going to stop upcharging for vegan
milk, then balance it out with the non
(32:45):
-vegan milks.
As Doxie mentioned, there are, you know, major
subsidies going on and PETA is working on
the side on that as well with our
food justice campaign, getting those subsidies out of
dairy, meat and egg industries and, you know,
promoting the healthy vegan foods that the government
should be promoting.
(33:06):
But absolutely, people are not paying that full
cost, whether it's for the animals or the
climate, human health, public health costs of all
this heavy dairy consumption, that all adds up
and it's not being reflected in that sticker
price at the counters.
You know, sometimes people are saying now, well,
(33:31):
there was this huge move toward plant-based
products when, for example, in 2019, Beyond Meat's
IPO initial public offering was the most successful
IPO since the 2008 financial crisis and everybody
was just sort of going crazy over it.
And now there's a bit of retrenchment and
(33:51):
I always say nothing goes straight up.
Even the most successful stock goes like this.
But this is, I think, a marker of
now we're back on the way up.
I think this change, given that Starbucks is,
according to you, and I believe you, and
Starbucks you're invited on anytime again, but the
(34:14):
largest purveyor of dairy in the United States
aside from the U.S. government.
And it is essentially acknowledging that vegan milks,
soy milk and almond milk and coconut milk,
should be on an even playing field.
I feel that this is a moment of
cultural shift.
(34:34):
What say you?
Yeah, I know it's been disappointing to see
what's happened in the last year.
But if we look back, we see that
around 2019, as you mentioned, Meat & Dairy
got together, the PR firm, and they've only
had to spend about $2 million a year,
(34:55):
which is not so much for them, only
solely focussing on the ultra processed milk.
And it's been working.
And that's now what's in our hands to
fight back with.
And there's lots of options on how to
fight that back, whether to fight directly against
(35:15):
that or introduce a different concept about what
is in Meat & Dairy.
But it's working.
I mean, we used to have the basketball
players, the big NBA stars sitting courtside in
their Beyond Meat hats.
And now they won't even take sponsorship money
from Beyond Meat.
They're like, no, no, dude, it's ultra processed.
(35:36):
So their campaigns worked.
And I think we always had to know
that they weren't going to just lay down,
right?
Of course, they were going to fight.
So we have to band together and fight
back against that, because that's really what you'll
hear most people who are no longer eating
vegan say.
It's too processed.
(35:57):
It's not good for you.
Well, and oh, my gosh, I have so
many arguments that I would love to hear
from all the American people.
But A, we just profiled Beyond Meat, and
they have a new heart healthy version.
Yes.
Because Ethan Brown said, well, you know, we've
come under attack by the incumbent industry is
how he put it.
So instead of fighting back with just words,
(36:19):
we've decided we're going to make our product
even healthier.
And now it's certified by the American Heart
Association.
And it's much healthier.
Not that it was unhealthy, but he responded
that way, which I thought was so evolved
of him.
But you're absolutely right.
There is, according to The Guardian, there's like
a war room the size of a major
(36:40):
network somewhere in Denver, Colorado, where they spew
out all this stuff about how vegan meat
alternatives are ultra processed.
Now, mind you, you can always eat tofu,
brown rice, kale, legumes, carrots, all the reason
(37:00):
those items were created was because people said,
no, I can't eat.
Oh, I'm not going to eat whole food
plant based.
So they try to put you in a
no win circumstance.
If you say, look, whole food is there.
You can eat it.
It's super healthy.
We've got gazillion studies that show that that's
the route to disease prevention and longevity.
(37:21):
Oh, no, I have to have my burger.
I have to have my wings.
I have to have my this, that and
the other.
OK, we're going to make you plant based
versions.
And then they say, oh, well, that's processed.
So that's kind of trying to put you
in a situation where you can't win.
What I do say is processed meat is
officially cancer causing, according to the World Health
(37:43):
Organisation.
Meat alternatives are not.
And they have zero cholesterol.
So they're automatically healthier.
Amber, how does PETA make that case, given
that there is this, I would call it
a misinformation campaign out there against meat alternatives?
(38:05):
Yeah, there have been so many new buzzwords
that they have come up with in the
past couple of years.
We have a whole guide on our Web
site about how, especially that buzzword regenerative agriculture.
I just heard it on an ad for
cheese, cheesy crackers or something like that this
week.
And I was like, really?
(38:28):
But, you know, I think part of the
fact that they've had to spend so much
effort creating all these new buzzwords, all these
humane labels that they have to slap on
things, is a testament to how much the
public does care about these issues that they
have had to go on the offensive and
(38:49):
go on the defensive to get people to
stop going vegan in droves.
And, you know, largely they are failing.
It's still going to be a lot of
work out there to counteract all of these
false and misleading labels and marketing claims.
Honestly, that's just more opportunities to talk about
(39:11):
this issue and show how, you know, devious
the meat, dairy and egg industries really can
be.
They're not just abusing animals, but they are
relying on misleading and cover ups.
You know, we shouldn't have to have ag
laws.
We shouldn't have to have undercover investigators who
have to go in and show the real
conditions behind these things.
(39:33):
But we do.
And that just, you know, is a testament
to how cruel these industries are and the
length that they need to go to to
stay in business and keep people buying those
products.
And, you know, we are seeing so many
people ordering the free vegan starter guides that
we have on our website, accessing all the
resources and the health resources from groups like
(39:57):
Dotsies who are focused on, you know, health
and fitness.
All those resources are out there at people's
fingertips and we're always there and available to
help people get active and do what needs
to be done to help get these animals
out of these factory farms.
And I think we're actually doing better than
we give ourselves credit for.
And if you look, a lot of the
(40:19):
more successful brands have been bought up by
big companies.
So while yes, vegan restaurants might be struggling
right now, well, all restaurants are struggling.
There's been a cultural change since the pandemic.
I myself don't go to as many restaurants
as I used to.
And so it's across the board with restaurants,
(40:40):
not just vegan restaurants.
But then if you look at the frozen
food section in your average large supermarket, my
gosh, the amount of plant based alternatives, the
vegan wings, the vegan fish, the vegan burgers.
I mean, it's all over the place and
a lot of it is being adopted.
(41:02):
So I think we have to keep it
in perspective.
A lot of these brands have been purchased
by big, big companies.
And interestingly enough, once they get purchased by
the big companies, they don't seem to be
targets anymore.
It's kind of funny how that happens.
Like it's the upstart companies that are not
(41:23):
bought by international conglomerates that get a lot
of hits.
But once they're bought by international conglomerates, they
don't seem to get that many hits.
And they're filling up the supermarket aisle, at
least my perspective.
What are your thoughts, Dotsie?
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
It does seem to be that we have
(41:44):
had a little bit of a surge in
the last year with the products because it
felt like there was a downturn.
Like all of a sudden we had like
three or four choices after 2019 when it
had 20.
But it seems to me that the major
problem is how challenging it is to get
shelf space.
And that's why some of these smaller companies
who've been bought by the bigger companies, sadly,
many of them also distributing meat and dairy,
(42:07):
have been able to get shelf space and
stay in the grocery store.
So I don't love how it's had to
happen.
But we're working with a new child-focused
non-dairy milk that's made from chickpeas this
past weekend at the New York City Marathon.
(42:29):
We were in the expo.
It is absolutely delicious.
I mean, they have done the most beautiful
job.
I mean, it's an ingredient list that you
can only dream of or a mother can
only dream of for their children.
But the shelf space, I mean, they just
they're having such a hard time.
Right.
You can only hang in for so long.
You know, you get that seed money and
(42:51):
that is blown immediately making this incredible product
because it's not cheap to make when it's
that healthy.
So it's shelf space to me, every food
company I talk to and start up.
That is their challenge.
And I don't know how to change that,
by the way.
So I mean, right.
I bet that's that's why it's so frustrating
(43:11):
is because it's the depth of the large
food companies, you know, like Nabisco and others.
They have all the shelf space and they're
not moving it.
The grocery stores aren't wanting to move it
around because they know what works.
Wow.
Well, yes, you're right.
Shelf space is very important.
And I'll tell you a funny story.
(43:34):
When I was in New York, I would
notice this one supermarket that the vegan products
were always in the back in a horrible
area.
And I would get off work late and
I would go back there and I'd move
them to the front.
And I was doing like rearranging the supermarket.
(43:58):
And then one day that one night because
I would be there like at 11 o
'clock at night where nobody's paying attention.
One night manager caught me and he's like,
what the hell are you doing?
I'm like, oh, I'm just rearranging a little
bit.
You're welcome.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, look, getting back to the reason that
we're talking to you today, this this incredible
(44:19):
news that has just been such good news.
And we can talk about challenges, but let's
celebrate our victories.
This victory is absolutely extraordinary.
Starbucks ending the vegan milk upcharge after a
powerful PETA campaign and a campaign by Switch
for Good.
They are two of the most incredible organisations
(44:42):
that are relentless.
And James Cromwell led PETA's campaign, literally glueing
himself to a Starbucks counter.
And we'll just hear once again what he
said.
It's very short, but this got so much
(45:04):
publicity that it really was worth it.
The half an hour, hour or so really
made headlines.
A single cow emits more smog, warming pollutants
than a car.
One cow on a dairy farm also requires
(45:24):
50 gallons of water a day.
So we're in the vegan upcharge now because
they charge for vegan milk in there.
It does damage to the planet.
It does damage to people who ingest it,
who can't metabolise it.
And it's simple greed.
(45:45):
And again, the good news is that as
a result of this campaign, the Dotsy Bausch,
Switch for Good campaigns, and the fact that
it was hurting their business, they have now
stopped charging more for plant-based milks.
So, you know, as we kind of try
(46:06):
to understand the significance of this, Amber, in
the big picture, I always say we never
know what these big turning points are in
any social justice movement.
Wouldn't it be nice if we can all
think of moments in history where one person
did something and it ended up becoming a
moment in history, but it may not have
(46:28):
been obvious at the time.
It became obvious in retrospect.
Where does this Starbucks dropping the vegan upcharge
in the United States and Canada rank in
terms of groundbreaking change for the vegan movement,
animal rights?
Well, it's one of the probably first big
(46:49):
barriers to hopefully in the very near future,
where vegan milks and meat and eggs are
the default, you know, that are just being
served.
And maybe then you have to ask especially
for the cow's milk in your coffee if
(47:09):
you really want it.
And then eventually the dairy industry is just
not going to be able to survive without
the subsidies that they are getting and all
of the, you know, unfounded money that they're
getting from the school lunch programmes and things
like that and from Starbucks.
Because, again, Starbucks was, you know, is even
(47:30):
with the roughly half of their customers who
are already choosing the vegan milks despite the
upcharge.
That's another big thing is people were already
largely choosing the vegan milks despite the upcharge.
So, I mean, it remains to be seen
how much more it's going to be now
that people aren't facing this, you know, this
(47:51):
upcharge that really raised the cost on things.
It's just more accessible.
And other coffee chains and coffee shops and
restaurants and grocery stores, you know, it is
going to have that ripple effect.
Well, I certainly hope so.
And one thing, I don't know if maybe
some Starbucks executives might watch this.
(48:12):
Who knows?
We invite you on anytime.
We would love to dialogue with you.
But one thing I think that all the
baristas should be informed of is what's vegan
and what isn't.
Because I was actually in a Starbucks recently
and I saw that they had some kind
of soy something or other or oat something
or other, some kind of, it appeared to
be, non-dairy.
(48:33):
And I said, since it was not just
a cup of coffee with a milk of
whatever kind, it was sort of a fancy
thing.
I said, is that vegan?
And they said, I don't know.
So, and it said like oats.
So, I think that all these baristas need
to be informed of what drinks are vegan
(48:55):
for their business.
Not just to do me a personal favour,
but because there's a lot of people like
me going in and saying, is that vegan
or does it, sometimes the powders have dairy
in them.
Because sometimes they'll have like a little powder,
you know.
And I don't want to take that risk.
So, I just said, no, I'm not going
to have it.
But if I knew 100% it was
(49:15):
completely vegan, I would have tried it.
Now, let me say one other thing, because
obviously Starbucks also serves food.
Again, I want to say, full disclosure, I
haven't been into a Starbucks to really look
for anything or buy anything, except for that
one incident in a long time.
But I was in Switzerland, in Zurich.
(49:37):
And I walked into a Starbucks and they
had the most incredible vegan waffle.
In fact, this one lady and I kind
of, we kind of had a tug of
war over it for a minute.
The guy behind the counter said, oh, you
know, these sell like hotcakes.
And I thought, why the heck aren't we
having this in the United States?
(49:58):
I'd like to ask both of you.
Why is it that a lot of countries
in Europe, they didn't have the surcharge, but
they had it here in the United States?
And from my own personal observation, Starbucks in
other countries like Switzerland are offering vegan options
that are not available in the United States.
(50:18):
Dotsie?
Well, here's something that you really don't want
to know.
And the listeners don't really want to know.
But one thing that we uncovered that was
unrelated to the non-dairy milk upcharge with
the whistleblowers, most of their sugary syrups at
Starbucks have bone char.
(50:39):
So if you're getting a vanilla latte like
I used to, it has bone char in
it.
So there's not a lot of speciality drinks
at Starbucks that are vegan.
So that's just disgusting.
I have to say legally, I can't independently
confirm that.
(50:59):
That's the first I've heard of it.
So again, I would invite Starbucks on any
time to respond to anything said by me,
Dotsie or Amber or anybody.
We would love to dialogue with you and
set the record straight on all of this.
But thank you for doing your investigations, Dotsie.
(51:19):
So where do we go from here?
We've only got two minutes.
Final thoughts.
Where do we go from here?
Can I just take a day off?
No.
You sure?
Oh, my God.
We keep hammering.
We don't stop.
I mean, a coffee shop is a coffee
shop, even though it's a multinational coffee shop,
(51:40):
multi-international coffee shop.
But we keep fighting with all the things
that we're already fighting for.
And after yesterday, I'm feeling a little bit
down about our federal legislation.
But that's not going to stop us, right?
We fight.
You fight.
Amber fights.
And we keep going.
We can't not fight.
When I wake up on mornings like this
(52:01):
morning and feel like I don't know where
we're going or what just happened, I always
try and remind myself if I wasn't doing
this, I wouldn't be able to live with
myself.
The three of us are incapable of not
fighting.
And Tom says put Dotsie on the team
immediately.
I said, Dotsie can put me on the
team.
We're on the same team.
(52:21):
It's her team.
I'm on the team.
All right.
We're all on the same team.
Amber, what are your thoughts?
What's next?
Where do we go with this victory?
PETA's motto, one of many, is never be
silent.
Every animal is someone.
And we are just going to keep plugging
away at that.
(52:42):
Whether it's Starbucks or any other company that's
exploiting animals, we don't stop.
We just don't stop.
We're going to keep going.
And we need to get everybody on board.
So come with us.
I got the super glue.
Yeah.
And once again, I want to compliment both
these organisations for being so relentless.
(53:04):
I mean, if you look at some of
these protests, this is not easy to pull
off.
These are difficult to pull off.
They involve tremendous coordination.
And the people here are almost exclusively volunteers.
There I am, a volunteer, shouting.
And there's one of the leaders of Switch
(53:26):
for Good, along with Dotsie Bausch.
People think, oh, are we doing all this
because it's fun?
No.
There's plenty of other things that I would
have rather done in a perfect world other
than go and drive to a Starbucks and
stand there and chant for an hour and
a half.
(53:46):
But we do it because the animals cannot
speak for themselves.
The planet cannot speak for itself.
And humans need to know that there's an
alternative to dairy that is zero cholesterol, that's
better for them, better for the animals, and
better for the planet.
(54:07):
So I just want to say thank you
both.
I know you are very, very busy, busy
people.
And I can't tell you how much I
appreciate you coming here today and just celebrating
this victory.
This is a major, major victory.
Again, according to Dotsie, Starbucks is the leading
(54:29):
purveyor of dairy in the United States aside
from the U.S. government and government institutions.
So it's a major breakthrough.
I will say once again, thank you, Starbucks.
We're going to sing your praises today for
doing the right thing.
And we invite you on anytime.
Meanwhile, I urge everybody to download Unchained TV.
(54:53):
We are the world's only vegan streaming television
network.
And we are mostly volunteer run.
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
And check us out.
So it's a vegan network.
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained, Unchained TV.
Your life will change.
It's just that easy.
(55:15):
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
everybody.
Unchained TV changed my life.
Unchained TV is crushing it.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained TV is my go-to.
Unchained TV, who knew?
Unchained, baby, yay!
(55:35):
So you can download Unchained TV on your
phone.
You can download it on any TV with
Amazon Fire Stick, Roku device, or Apple TV
device.
It's also on all Samsung TVs and about
to go on all LG TVs.
And I tell you, there's about 2,000
videos, including this one, that are a lot
of fun to watch and highly educational.
(55:56):
All free.
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
Thank you very much, ladies.
Rock on!
Bye-bye, VAMPers!
We have breaking news for you.
Fasten your seatbelts.
This is huge.
Stop everything you're doing.
Starbucks dropped their surcharge for the plant-based
milks.
Finally, do you know how long we've been
asking for this?
This is a huge victory for the vegan
(00:21):
movement, for the animal rights movement, for organisations
like PETA and Switch for Good.
No one should be paying extra for making
better choices for our planet, for themselves, and
for the animals.
It's a victory.
Now, the inside story of how it happened.
And it is making headlines around the world.
(00:41):
There you see it, VegNews, Starbucks drops dairy
-free surcharge, embracing all the ways our customers
enjoy their Starbucks.
This is a huge vegan victory.
Starbucks drops surcharge for non-dairy.
Starbucks won't charge extra for plant-based milk.
Other companies should follow suit.
So we've got representatives from two of the
(01:02):
leading organisations that made this happen, PETA and
Switch for Good.
I want to start with one of my
favourite people on the planet, Dotsie Bausch, vegan
Olympian who has literally devoted her life to
this issue.
And that's why she started Switch for Good.
So, Dotsie, tell us, what is the significance
(01:24):
of this surcharge being dropped by Starbucks?
Yeah, well, when we decided to go after
the largest coffee chain in the world, we
did it because we felt like if we
go big and we are successful, we knew
it was going to be a multi-year
(01:45):
approach, that it would trickle down to all
of the other coffee shops in the world.
And we definitely think that it will.
The reason behind it is simply to normalise
plant food, normalise plant milk.
We know that the 95% just wants
normal, right?
They want average.
They don't want things to be weird or
(02:06):
niche.
And by charging extra money, which is also
a certain form of dietary racism, which we
brought to light in this campaign and really
helped people to understand what that is, how
it gets developed and how it's incredibly unfair.
But it was all about normalising this plant
milk.
When something's normal and it's just on the
(02:27):
menu alongside the cow's milk, because we all
know the cow's milk is what should have
had the upcharge, then people feel free, open,
even excited to order a plant food, a
plant milk, because it's just the same and
they don't have to pay this niche extra
upcharge.
So it's about normalisation for us.
PETA was one of the other organisations that
(02:49):
led the charge.
These two groups were working, you know, hand
in hand, protests here, protests there.
We're going to show you and you can
hear some of these protests in a moment.
But Amber, what would you say is the
significance of this in the vegan movement, in
the animal rights movement, the dropping of this
surcharge?
Yeah, thanks for having us on.
(03:11):
PETA's been going after Starbucks for years.
And, you know, in order to get animals
out of these factory farms and out of
the dairy industry, we need to normalise and
make vegan foods more accessible.
So getting one of the largest chains that
is such a large seller of dairy products
(03:33):
is a huge win and it will have
ripple effects.
You know, now the smaller coffee chains will
have absolutely no excuse.
So we are looking very closely toward the
future on the ripple effects of this.
All right.
Well, one of the iconic moments of this
campaign was when Succession and Babe star James
(03:55):
Cromwell literally glued himself to a Starbucks counter.
Let's watch it and then we'll talk about
it on the other side.
A single cow emits more smog, farming pollutants
than a car.
One cow on a dairy farm also requires
50 gallons of water a day.
So we're in the vegan upcharge now because
(04:16):
they charge for vegan milk in there.
It does damage to the planet.
It does damage to people who ingest it,
who can't metabolise it.
And it's simple greed.
Wow.
Simple greed.
Now, do you think these campaigns alleging that
(04:39):
this was being done, this surcharge for simple
greed, were what turned the corner?
Or was it that Starbucks had started to
suffer economically because they were charging extra?
Because according to Starbucks' own account, the requests
(05:00):
for vegan milks, oat milk, soy milk, almond
milk, coconut milk, is the second most requested
customisation right after an extra shot of espresso,
which I could probably use right now myself.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Well, about 10 weeks before they dropped the
(05:24):
upcharge, we had been working with a whistleblower,
with an informant who worked inside at Starbucks
for some years.
And we uncovered quite a lot, which we
privately sent to Starbucks.
And I think maybe was their final lever
in the breaking to make this happen.
(05:45):
What we uncovered was absolute egregious price gouging.
Like we knew they made a lot of
money on this, right?
Because why else would they do it?
But what we uncovered was that they make
a 788% markup for almond milk, a
566% markup on soy milk, and 185
(06:07):
% markup on oat milk.
We know that they made a billion dollars
on these markups.
They charge 80 cents.
And almond milk, for example, that they charge
nine.
It costs nine cents and they charge 80
cents.
It's a 788% markup.
So revealing that we uncovered those numbers, and
(06:29):
then also revealing something that was almost even
more egregious, them going back to 2019 and
erasing and changing their climate baselines because they
recognised they were not going to make their
2025 target.
We have all of that paperwork and sent
it to them.
So those are two big surprises, I think,
(06:52):
for them, that they didn't realise that anyone
knew about either one of those.
And I think that Brian Nickell trying to
do the right thing, having to change and
really turn this entire company around from it
being in the toilet with the shareholders, didn't
want this out, either one of these facts.
And we invite Starbucks on any time.
(07:14):
I think we can all say kudos to
the new CEO, Brian Nickell, for making this
change.
So we applaud and congratulate him.
What we're doing is talking about how and
why it happened when it did, because the
protest by James Cromwell was two years ago.
So there have been protests for years demanding
(07:37):
this.
Let's take a look at some of the
protests organised by Switch for Good.
Put your money where your mouth is and
stop the upcharge of the plant-based milk
now.
What the hell is up, you guys?
My name is Jamie Logan, and we are
(07:58):
here in Los Angeles outside of Starbucks.
We are asking, we are demanding that they
drop the surcharge on plant-based milk.
And let's find out why.
Extra charges aren't fair.
Stop the upcharge, stop the green.
Keep our prices what we need.
(08:18):
So we are here because we have been
working for two and a half years trying
to get Starbucks to drop their plant milk
upcharge.
It's $0.70, $0.80, $0.80 at
the top.
Extra to have planet-friendly, animal-friendly, people
-friendly, health-friendly plant milk.
And as many of you know now, because
we've been doing this work for so long,
(08:39):
35% of Americans cannot digest dairy.
80% of people of colour all over
the world, it makes them sick, uncomfortable, and
in some cases, unable to breathe.
Yet that milk is free at Starbucks, and
they're charging for planet-friendly plant milk.
It's insanity.
(09:00):
So all those were excellent arguments, but-
I apparently had a lot of coffee before
that.
Wow.
I think they cut you off.
No more shots.
Exactly.
No more shots.
And you know what?
I've had this Starbucks coffee plastic cup for
(09:20):
about six years, and so I use it
every time I have to do an update
on Starbucks.
I haven't actually gone into Starbucks, however.
That may change now that they've eliminated the
upcharge.
I would be happy to go there.
Tomorrow.
Yeah, we're celebrating this.
So let me say this.
(09:41):
Those were all great reasons.
Climate change, suffering of animals, human health with
the huge amount of lactose intolerance in the
populace.
In fact, there's even been lawsuits surrounding that
issue.
But those are not what were cited in
news reports as the defining reason why this
(10:04):
happened.
It was more described as Starbucks is having
some problems with sales and wanted to appeal
to its customers.
So is this still a case of follow
the money at the end of the day,
DOTC?
And then we'll go to Amber.
I mean, most definitely.
(10:26):
And Amber and PETA know this even more
because they've been campaigning for 50 years, right,
that there is never a world where the
major multinational public corporation says, thank you, activists,
for letting us see our flaws.
Thank you for exposing the price gouging.
Thank you for exposing our corporate fraud and
(10:46):
changing.
Thank you for exposing the climate.
I mean, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, we're never going to know
exactly.
But I think because of all that both
of us have done on this, they were
done with the pressure.
They were done with it.
I mean, they just wanted to turn the
corner.
And I think that they didn't.
(11:07):
I know for sure that Brian did not
want the latest bits that we'd uncover revealed.
And they didn't want the pressure from PETA
anymore.
They just didn't want it.
Right.
He wanted to turn a new leaf.
He didn't want to deal with that.
And he turned it into a kind of
a conversation around its customisation season, the holidays.
And so we're going to make customisation easier
by not charging for plant milk.
(11:28):
So that's how they spun it.
And we were expecting nothing less.
Right, Amber?
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, PETA has been going after
Starbucks on this issue through multiple CEOs.
And, in fact, when Brian Nichol came on
board, we suspended our campaign because we were
(11:49):
so hopeful.
With his past history at the other companies
he worked at, you know, Chipotle having such
great vegan options.
You know, we were hopeful and it did
pay off.
And we're seeing now the massive PR move,
positive PR for them, that the previous CEOs
who are no longer with Starbucks really missed
(12:12):
out on.
And that really shows that doing the right
thing, whether they did it for the right
reasons or not, is a good business move.
And do you think it will, Amber, inspire
other companies to follow suit?
Absolutely.
We have been, you know, not just Starbucks,
there are some other handfuls of chains and
(12:34):
also individual coffee stores, right?
So the small coffee shops who might still
be charging extra maybe felt like they had
to because the big guys were.
And they needed to do that to remain
competitive.
So this is just showing that across the
board it is, you know, affordable and accessible.
And just the right thing to do for
any company that, you know, is trying to
(12:56):
appeal to customers who care about animals, care
about their carbon footprints, and just doing the
right thing.
And, you know, PETA has worked with so
many celebrities.
James Cromwell, and there is a building named
the James Cromwell Empathy Centre that is part
of PETA's overall headquarters.
In fact, Unchained TV just had a premier
(13:16):
party at the PETA Empathy Centre, the James
Cromwell PETA Empathy Centre.
And, you know, there's no better activist than
James Cromwell.
He is out there on the front lines
lending his fame and celebrity to this and
other issues when it comes to animal rights
and veganism.
Let's take a look at PETA's now iconic
(13:36):
commercial that they did to put pressure on
Starbucks to drop the extra charge, which Starbucks
has now done.
Starbucks cares.
We care about the world turning into a
giant burning hellscape.
And we care that you care that cow's
milk production emits about three times more greenhouse
(13:59):
gases than vegan milk.
We care, but you care more.
That's why we charge you up to 90
cents extra for our vegan milk.
Because when you really care, like you do,
it's a small price to pay.
And it's good that you pay, I mean,
care, because we also have other things to
care about.
Like the $1.6 million cash sign-on
(14:21):
bonus for our new CEO.
We care about profits.
Confused?
We're not.
You just keep caring about saving the world
and we'll keep caring about our savings account.
Because Starbucks cares about money.
Heck, it's right there in our name.
There you go.
(14:41):
Drink that in.
You take care now.
What a sophisticated campaign.
And the CEO he referred to is no
longer there.
Correct me if I'm wrong, replaced by Brian
Nickell, who came over from Chipotle because they
were struggling.
I mean, do you think at the end
(15:02):
of the day, it's just not smart business?
Like everybody's praising Brian Nickell as a very
smart business person.
He did drop the upcharge.
Is that the smart business move?
Couldn't it be also not just good for
the animals, good for human health, good for
(15:23):
the planet, but also good for business?
Why do those two have to be at
loggerheads, Dotsie?
Yeah.
I mean, I think they'll win a lot
of people over by doing it.
I also do think it's, you know, interesting
timing that it's customisation season and people want
to try all sorts of, you know, different
(15:43):
foofy drinks over the holidays and they'll make
some of the money up during that.
I won't be entirely shocked if the overall
prices of their beverages start to creep up
to make it back, because like I said,
it was a billion dollars for them last
year.
So that's a lot of money to let
go.
So they might get new customers.
(16:05):
That's where that exactly.
Yeah.
I used to go to Starbucks all the
time.
I just walk around with this thing for
four or five years.
Well, that's the question.
I mean, how many people were boycotting Starbucks
because of the plant milk?
I mean, that's what we don't they don't
know.
Yeah.
Boycotting, if not boycotting outright, just thinking, you
(16:25):
know, one of the issues that I've had
when I've gone in there.
And by the way, again, we invite Starbucks
on any time.
As as we've said at the start of
this broadcast, we applaud your decision.
So this isn't like attack Starbucks day.
This is applaud Starbucks day.
But we're trying to understand it and we're
trying to understand why it took so long
(16:46):
and why these two organisations, Switch for Good
and PETA, had to go to extreme lengths,
like getting movie stars to record fake commercials
and glueing themselves to a counter in order
to make the case.
For those who aren't animal activists, please know
(17:07):
that all campaigns start out with polite letters.
Right, Amber?
All campaigns start out with here's the facts
behind the scenes before anything public ever, ever
happened.
You know.
Yes.
Well, can you outline that?
Because people sometimes say, oh, why are they
protesting?
Yeah, I mean, any time you see PETA
(17:29):
has an action alert out against something, you
know, we've attempted to resolve things.
The best campaigns are the ones you never
have to launch in the first place.
And Starbucks previous CEOs, you know, just weren't
were open to it at the time.
It took a little bit of cajoling.
(17:50):
I've still got a scar on my hand
from the time I glued my hand to
their headquarters countertop.
But, you know, that scar is going to
fade and eventually and we'll be moving on
to, you know, on and on to the
next victories down the road.
And in fact, tomorrow, PETA is officially calling
(18:10):
off our boycott that we've been having with
support.
Starbucks Vegan Coffee Day is going to be
tomorrow.
So go in and get those soy lattes
and, you know, to keep working and keep
that caffeine up.
Well, I wanted to ask you what it
was like to glue, because I did have
(18:30):
questions about this.
I'm like, we all know glueing yourself, super
glueing yourself.
That's painful.
And how does it end?
I never quite got the answer.
Since you actually superglue yourself as well.
Can you tell us, please?
I went a little overboard and used an
entire tube of the superglue at the Starbucks
(18:53):
Reserve in their headquarters in Seattle.
They didn't really know what to do about
it.
And the firefighters tried many things.
A butter knife ended up being the main
thing that worked to get me out.
We were in there for a couple hours.
Wow.
It was an interesting experience.
(19:15):
And I had one hand glued with the
phone with the live stream the entire time.
Wow.
And you think it was worth it?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
They filed some charges and never pursued them.
So, you know, I was willing to go
the full way, but they just wanted to
(19:37):
get us out of there.
Yeah.
And I really think that's important because so
many people, I've been working with PETA for
decades now.
And as a journalist, always there, always there
saying, sure, I'll talk to you.
Sure.
I'll try to connect you with a celebrity
who might care about this, whatever the case
may be.
(19:58):
And I really hate it when people say
PETA.
Oh, they throw blood.
PETA hasn't thrown fake blood at anything in
I don't know how long.
I mean, that's got to be decades.
But they like to do that to kind
of dismiss.
What I say is, you know, journalists should
be covering this issue seriously and all the
(20:18):
other issues that PETA raises seriously.
But the truth is PETA has something like
19 lawyers.
They're filing Freedom of Information Act requests, holding
news conferences, putting out news releases.
But yet when they get the media attention
is when James Cromwell glues himself to a
supermarket, to a Starbucks counter or somebody gets
(20:39):
naked or almost naked.
In other words, these animal rights organisations are
put in a situation where they're completely ignored
when they're serious.
And then when they in desperation become somewhat
outlandish after begging for change politely, then they're
attacked for being outlandish.
Would you like to address that, Amber?
(21:01):
Yeah, it takes everything.
I mean, I've attended board meetings from giant
corporations.
And, you know, we've had Alicia Silverstone actually,
you know, called into a Starbucks board meeting
as well in the past.
But it sometimes takes steps, stepping things up
(21:21):
and taking some bold actions in a safe
way.
I mean, my hand was maybe in a
little danger that day, but it all ended
up fine.
And, you know, at the end of the
day, the planet is in crisis.
The animals are in crisis.
And, you know, we need to get active
and keep doing what we need to do
(21:42):
to keep these victories coming in, because the
animals really, really need us to step it
up.
And the people.
Let's hear a little bit more from the
protests that Dotsie Bausch organised outside a Starbucks.
I was there and her right hand man
also spoke.
(22:04):
Dairy and milk means stomach pain.
Starbucks coffee is to blame.
Plant based milk should not cost more.
Starbucks green, we do have more.
The intention of this campaign is to get
them to finally drop the plant based milk
upcharge.
What they have already done in the United
Kingdom, France, Chile, Germany, Japan and other major
(22:25):
World Cup countries.
They have resisted here in the US so
far.
This is their biggest market.
They make over we've estimated they make over
300 million dollars a year on the upcharge
alone.
Not just the drinks.
The upcharge.
Three hundred million dollars a year.
So this is part of our ongoing Justice
Cup campaign to get them to put their
money where their mouth is and actually finally
(22:45):
drop the upcharge for people, planet and the
animals.
That is why we are here today.
Thank you guys so much for being here.
All right.
So again, we applaud Starbucks for finally dropping
that surcharge for soy, almond, coconut and what
(23:07):
is it?
Oat milk.
OK.
And we have a lot of people saying,
yes, I'm going to go back and start
going to Starbucks.
Let me ask you a question.
Oh, that's quite a quite a comment there.
Let me ask you a question.
Do you think this is going to encourage
more people who are not vegan, who are
not plant based to try the vegan option?
(23:27):
Because that's another benefit from this Stasi.
It's not just people who are already drinking
plant based milks who will say, oh, now
I can go in there and and have
my soy latte without paying extra.
It's also people that maybe don't really try
the plant based milks that might be encouraged
to try them because they're not being charged
(23:48):
more.
Of course they will.
Yeah.
I mean, we know the stats.
We know that 80 to 97 percent of
people of colour just make some sick dairy
milk.
So absolutely.
It's a huge celebration for them to be
able to go in there and try these
different plant based milks.
And maybe some of them are, you know,
who have not been going to Starbucks as
well and and be able to enjoy their
(24:09):
coffee without running the bathroom afterwards.
I think it it will really encourage most
people.
I think curiosity alone, too, will encourage people
who aren't lactose intolerant.
What does that taste like?
I've always wondered about it.
People talk about it.
I mean, we're up to 44 percent of
U.S. households has plant make plant based
milk in the refrigerator.
(24:31):
We're close to reaching the tipping point of
50 percent household penetration.
I mean, some of those households may also
have dairy milk, but that is a massive
step forward.
So they're drinking at home, is my point.
So they are absolutely going to go to
the coffee shop and be excited to be
able to order it for free.
And what I want to ask you is
(24:52):
what can the rest of the plant based
movement learn from the success of the dairy
sector?
I think it's fair to say and correct
me if I'm wrong, but my observation is
that the milk alternatives, the dairy free milk
alternatives, soy milk, rice milk, almond milk, oat
milk, the list goes on and on.
(25:15):
I've seen hemp milk.
I've seen all sorts of sort of even.
But it's the most successful aspect of the
plant based movement.
I mean, it's taking over the supermarket shelves.
When I check out, I'm always looking around.
I'm seeing so many people, even in, you
know, not like just fancy grocery stores.
But I was just at Smart and Final
(25:36):
two days ago.
The guy behind me has got the plant
based milks.
What can we learn from the success of
the plant based milk sector about what we
need to do with other sectors, particularly meat
alternatives?
Yeah, well, I mean, we also know that
(25:56):
that Gen Z, 49 percent of Gen Z,
almost half of them are embarrassed to order
dairy in public.
So the younger generation, they get it.
They get it for all the reasons.
And they're certainly pushing hard.
And I think what we can learn is
I mean, that's why we focus on this
from day one at Switch for Good, because
I have and will always believe that dairy
(26:19):
is the way in to a plant based
vegan world.
People are accepting the dairy alternatives.
They like them.
They're bringing them into their house.
They make them feel great.
We've already discussed how many people dairy makes
feel terrible.
And because of that, people have this almost
like religious experience when they drop dairy and
(26:41):
feel better in five days, six days, seven
days.
I mean, it's a really short period of
time.
And then they get excited about feeling that
much better and their health improving.
And then they start asking questions about what
else could they do to make themselves feel
better?
Unfortunately, we don't have that with a chicken
sandwich.
Nobody feels better if they drop chicken.
You drop all of it.
Things start to change.
(27:03):
But I think dairy is the way in
to dropping all of the meat.
And the more of us that recognise that
and start to work on what is working
and pushing that and finally breaking that lever
of dairy, they're almost on their way out.
They're not keeping themselves in business.
Meat is keeping themselves in business.
(27:23):
Our federal government is keeping dairy in business.
Seventy three percent of their income comes from
the feds.
So they are teetering.
And it's going to take all of us
to push them over.
And then we can go, you know, sector
to sector to sector and win this.
Well, I think you're absolutely right in terms
of kids aren't just sitting down like out
(27:43):
of a leave it to beaver TV show.
You know, these are 60s and drinking an
entire glass of milk.
They don't do it anymore.
So there's been a cultural shift and that's
the kind of cultural shift we need in
other sectors.
Amber, do you have any thoughts on what
we can learn from the success of the
dairy alternative movement in terms of what we
(28:07):
can do with other sectors in the plant
based food market?
Well, the other big thing with dairy, aside
from Starbucks, you know, which we don't need
to worry about anymore, is is is cheese
consumption is still, you know, something that needs
to be hammered on.
And the you know, the vegan cheeses are
(28:28):
getting better and better all the time.
So that is the kind of secondary dairy
related campaign that PETA has been focussing on.
Just getting people to try it because the
numbers of people trying it, they're more likely
to be more comfortable picking it up off
the grocery store shelf or the vegan burger
(28:50):
that has vegan cheese on it at the
restaurants.
Vegan mac and cheese.
It's, you know, it's all there ready to
go.
And that's that's kind of the next the
next hurdle we're looking at.
We've been giving away like tens of thousands
of samples of vegan cheese, just getting people
to try it because just like the soy
and oat milk with your cookie or whatever
(29:12):
we've been giving away at, you know, activism
events and booths.
We just need to get them to try
it and say, hey, I had some misconceptions
about that.
If you're just joining us, we're celebrating a
victory.
Starbucks has ended its vegan milk upcharge in
the United States and Canada after a powerful
campaign.
(29:33):
We have PETA and Switch for Good, the
two leading organisations that worked very hard to
make this happen.
And there's just happiness all the way around.
Stop everything you're doing.
Starbucks dropped their surcharge for the plant based
milk.
Finally, do you know how long we've been
asking for this?
(29:53):
This is a huge victory for the vegan
movement, for the animal rights movement, for organisations
like PETA and Switch for Good.
No one should be paying extra for making
better choices for our planet, for themselves and
for the animals.
It's a victory.
Now, the inside story of how it happened.
And I have to play once again Dotsie
(30:15):
Bausch at her protest because she was in
fuego outside Starbucks.
Put your money where your mouth is and
stop the upcharge of the plant based milk
now.
What the hell is up, you guys?
My name is Jamie Logan and we're here
(30:37):
in Los Angeles outside of Starbucks.
We are asking, we are demanding that they
drop the surcharge on plant based milk.
And let's find out why.
Extra charges aren't fair.
Stop the stopping doesn't care.
Stop the upcharge, stop the greed.
Keep our prices what we need.
So we are here because we have been
(30:58):
working for two and a half years trying
to get Starbucks to drop their plant milk
upcharge.
It's 70, 80 cents, 80 cents at the
top.
Extra to have planet friendly, animal friendly, people
friendly, health friendly plant milk.
And as many of you know now because
we've been doing this work for so long,
35% of Americans cannot digest dairy.
(31:22):
80% of people of colour all over
the world, it makes them sick, uncomfortable and
in some cases unable to breathe.
Yet that milk is free at Starbucks and
they're charging for planet friendly plant milk.
It's insanity.
So when you think about it and I'd
like to get your response, both of you
(31:43):
to this.
Amber, shouldn't they be charging more for dairy?
Right now we have equal price.
Thanks to this breakthrough where Starbucks agreed to
drop the surcharge for vegan milks like soy
milk, oat milk, rice milk, coconut milk, whatever
milks they carry in their various stores.
(32:04):
I know they mixed it up quite a
bit.
But if you think about what Doxie said,
the impact on the climate, the impact on
human health with the high levels of lactose
intolerance and obviously the cruelty as well.
Wouldn't it be smarter to either eliminate dairy
entirely or charge more for the privilege of
(32:25):
drinking the breast milk of cows if that's
what you really want to do?
Yeah, we had suggested that, you know, to
Starbucks in the past that, you know, the
prices should even out.
If you're going to stop upcharging for vegan
milk, then balance it out with the non
(32:45):
-vegan milks.
As Doxie mentioned, there are, you know, major
subsidies going on and PETA is working on
the side on that as well with our
food justice campaign, getting those subsidies out of
dairy, meat and egg industries and, you know,
promoting the healthy vegan foods that the government
should be promoting.
(33:06):
But absolutely, people are not paying that full
cost, whether it's for the animals or the
climate, human health, public health costs of all
this heavy dairy consumption, that all adds up
and it's not being reflected in that sticker
price at the counters.
You know, sometimes people are saying now, well,
(33:31):
there was this huge move toward plant-based
products when, for example, in 2019, Beyond Meat's
IPO initial public offering was the most successful
IPO since the 2008 financial crisis and everybody
was just sort of going crazy over it.
And now there's a bit of retrenchment and
(33:51):
I always say nothing goes straight up.
Even the most successful stock goes like this.
But this is, I think, a marker of
now we're back on the way up.
I think this change, given that Starbucks is,
according to you, and I believe you, and
Starbucks you're invited on anytime again, but the
(34:14):
largest purveyor of dairy in the United States
aside from the U.S. government.
And it is essentially acknowledging that vegan milks,
soy milk and almond milk and coconut milk,
should be on an even playing field.
I feel that this is a moment of
cultural shift.
(34:34):
What say you?
Yeah, I know it's been disappointing to see
what's happened in the last year.
But if we look back, we see that
around 2019, as you mentioned, Meat & Dairy
got together, the PR firm, and they've only
had to spend about $2 million a year,
(34:55):
which is not so much for them, only
solely focussing on the ultra processed milk.
And it's been working.
And that's now what's in our hands to
fight back with.
And there's lots of options on how to
fight that back, whether to fight directly against
(35:15):
that or introduce a different concept about what
is in Meat & Dairy.
But it's working.
I mean, we used to have the basketball
players, the big NBA stars sitting courtside in
their Beyond Meat hats.
And now they won't even take sponsorship money
from Beyond Meat.
They're like, no, no, dude, it's ultra processed.
(35:36):
So their campaigns worked.
And I think we always had to know
that they weren't going to just lay down,
right?
Of course, they were going to fight.
So we have to band together and fight
back against that, because that's really what you'll
hear most people who are no longer eating
vegan say.
It's too processed.
(35:57):
It's not good for you.
Well, and oh, my gosh, I have so
many arguments that I would love to hear
from all the American people.
But A, we just profiled Beyond Meat, and
they have a new heart healthy version.
Yes.
Because Ethan Brown said, well, you know, we've
come under attack by the incumbent industry is
how he put it.
So instead of fighting back with just words,
(36:19):
we've decided we're going to make our product
even healthier.
And now it's certified by the American Heart
Association.
And it's much healthier.
Not that it was unhealthy, but he responded
that way, which I thought was so evolved
of him.
But you're absolutely right.
There is, according to The Guardian, there's like
a war room the size of a major
(36:40):
network somewhere in Denver, Colorado, where they spew
out all this stuff about how vegan meat
alternatives are ultra processed.
Now, mind you, you can always eat tofu,
brown rice, kale, legumes, carrots, all the reason
(37:00):
those items were created was because people said,
no, I can't eat.
Oh, I'm not going to eat whole food
plant based.
So they try to put you in a
no win circumstance.
If you say, look, whole food is there.
You can eat it.
It's super healthy.
We've got gazillion studies that show that that's
the route to disease prevention and longevity.
(37:21):
Oh, no, I have to have my burger.
I have to have my wings.
I have to have my this, that and
the other.
OK, we're going to make you plant based
versions.
And then they say, oh, well, that's processed.
So that's kind of trying to put you
in a situation where you can't win.
What I do say is processed meat is
officially cancer causing, according to the World Health
(37:43):
Organisation.
Meat alternatives are not.
And they have zero cholesterol.
So they're automatically healthier.
Amber, how does PETA make that case, given
that there is this, I would call it
a misinformation campaign out there against meat alternatives?
(38:05):
Yeah, there have been so many new buzzwords
that they have come up with in the
past couple of years.
We have a whole guide on our Web
site about how, especially that buzzword regenerative agriculture.
I just heard it on an ad for
cheese, cheesy crackers or something like that this
week.
And I was like, really?
(38:28):
But, you know, I think part of the
fact that they've had to spend so much
effort creating all these new buzzwords, all these
humane labels that they have to slap on
things, is a testament to how much the
public does care about these issues that they
have had to go on the offensive and
(38:49):
go on the defensive to get people to
stop going vegan in droves.
And, you know, largely they are failing.
It's still going to be a lot of
work out there to counteract all of these
false and misleading labels and marketing claims.
Honestly, that's just more opportunities to talk about
(39:11):
this issue and show how, you know, devious
the meat, dairy and egg industries really can
be.
They're not just abusing animals, but they are
relying on misleading and cover ups.
You know, we shouldn't have to have ag
laws.
We shouldn't have to have undercover investigators who
have to go in and show the real
conditions behind these things.
(39:33):
But we do.
And that just, you know, is a testament
to how cruel these industries are and the
length that they need to go to to
stay in business and keep people buying those
products.
And, you know, we are seeing so many
people ordering the free vegan starter guides that
we have on our website, accessing all the
resources and the health resources from groups like
(39:57):
Dotsies who are focused on, you know, health
and fitness.
All those resources are out there at people's
fingertips and we're always there and available to
help people get active and do what needs
to be done to help get these animals
out of these factory farms.
And I think we're actually doing better than
we give ourselves credit for.
And if you look, a lot of the
(40:19):
more successful brands have been bought up by
big companies.
So while yes, vegan restaurants might be struggling
right now, well, all restaurants are struggling.
There's been a cultural change since the pandemic.
I myself don't go to as many restaurants
as I used to.
And so it's across the board with restaurants,
(40:40):
not just vegan restaurants.
But then if you look at the frozen
food section in your average large supermarket, my
gosh, the amount of plant based alternatives, the
vegan wings, the vegan fish, the vegan burgers.
I mean, it's all over the place and
a lot of it is being adopted.
(41:02):
So I think we have to keep it
in perspective.
A lot of these brands have been purchased
by big, big companies.
And interestingly enough, once they get purchased by
the big companies, they don't seem to be
targets anymore.
It's kind of funny how that happens.
Like it's the upstart companies that are not
(41:23):
bought by international conglomerates that get a lot
of hits.
But once they're bought by international conglomerates, they
don't seem to get that many hits.
And they're filling up the supermarket aisle, at
least my perspective.
What are your thoughts, Dotsie?
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
It does seem to be that we have
(41:44):
had a little bit of a surge in
the last year with the products because it
felt like there was a downturn.
Like all of a sudden we had like
three or four choices after 2019 when it
had 20.
But it seems to me that the major
problem is how challenging it is to get
shelf space.
And that's why some of these smaller companies
who've been bought by the bigger companies, sadly,
many of them also distributing meat and dairy,
(42:07):
have been able to get shelf space and
stay in the grocery store.
So I don't love how it's had to
happen.
But we're working with a new child-focused
non-dairy milk that's made from chickpeas this
past weekend at the New York City Marathon.
(42:29):
We were in the expo.
It is absolutely delicious.
I mean, they have done the most beautiful
job.
I mean, it's an ingredient list that you
can only dream of or a mother can
only dream of for their children.
But the shelf space, I mean, they just
they're having such a hard time.
Right.
You can only hang in for so long.
You know, you get that seed money and
(42:51):
that is blown immediately making this incredible product
because it's not cheap to make when it's
that healthy.
So it's shelf space to me, every food
company I talk to and start up.
That is their challenge.
And I don't know how to change that,
by the way.
So I mean, right.
I bet that's that's why it's so frustrating
(43:11):
is because it's the depth of the large
food companies, you know, like Nabisco and others.
They have all the shelf space and they're
not moving it.
The grocery stores aren't wanting to move it
around because they know what works.
Wow.
Well, yes, you're right.
Shelf space is very important.
And I'll tell you a funny story.
(43:34):
When I was in New York, I would
notice this one supermarket that the vegan products
were always in the back in a horrible
area.
And I would get off work late and
I would go back there and I'd move
them to the front.
And I was doing like rearranging the supermarket.
(43:58):
And then one day that one night because
I would be there like at 11 o
'clock at night where nobody's paying attention.
One night manager caught me and he's like,
what the hell are you doing?
I'm like, oh, I'm just rearranging a little
bit.
You're welcome.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, look, getting back to the reason that
we're talking to you today, this this incredible
(44:19):
news that has just been such good news.
And we can talk about challenges, but let's
celebrate our victories.
This victory is absolutely extraordinary.
Starbucks ending the vegan milk upcharge after a
powerful PETA campaign and a campaign by Switch
for Good.
They are two of the most incredible organisations
(44:42):
that are relentless.
And James Cromwell led PETA's campaign, literally glueing
himself to a Starbucks counter.
And we'll just hear once again what he
said.
It's very short, but this got so much
(45:04):
publicity that it really was worth it.
The half an hour, hour or so really
made headlines.
A single cow emits more smog, warming pollutants
than a car.
One cow on a dairy farm also requires
(45:24):
50 gallons of water a day.
So we're in the vegan upcharge now because
they charge for vegan milk in there.
It does damage to the planet.
It does damage to people who ingest it,
who can't metabolise it.
And it's simple greed.
(45:45):
And again, the good news is that as
a result of this campaign, the Dotsy Bausch,
Switch for Good campaigns, and the fact that
it was hurting their business, they have now
stopped charging more for plant-based milks.
So, you know, as we kind of try
(46:06):
to understand the significance of this, Amber, in
the big picture, I always say we never
know what these big turning points are in
any social justice movement.
Wouldn't it be nice if we can all
think of moments in history where one person
did something and it ended up becoming a
moment in history, but it may not have
(46:28):
been obvious at the time.
It became obvious in retrospect.
Where does this Starbucks dropping the vegan upcharge
in the United States and Canada rank in
terms of groundbreaking change for the vegan movement,
animal rights?
Well, it's one of the probably first big
(46:49):
barriers to hopefully in the very near future,
where vegan milks and meat and eggs are
the default, you know, that are just being
served.
And maybe then you have to ask especially
for the cow's milk in your coffee if
(47:09):
you really want it.
And then eventually the dairy industry is just
not going to be able to survive without
the subsidies that they are getting and all
of the, you know, unfounded money that they're
getting from the school lunch programmes and things
like that and from Starbucks.
Because, again, Starbucks was, you know, is even
(47:30):
with the roughly half of their customers who
are already choosing the vegan milks despite the
upcharge.
That's another big thing is people were already
largely choosing the vegan milks despite the upcharge.
So, I mean, it remains to be seen
how much more it's going to be now
that people aren't facing this, you know, this
(47:51):
upcharge that really raised the cost on things.
It's just more accessible.
And other coffee chains and coffee shops and
restaurants and grocery stores, you know, it is
going to have that ripple effect.
Well, I certainly hope so.
And one thing, I don't know if maybe
some Starbucks executives might watch this.
(48:12):
Who knows?
We invite you on anytime.
We would love to dialogue with you.
But one thing I think that all the
baristas should be informed of is what's vegan
and what isn't.
Because I was actually in a Starbucks recently
and I saw that they had some kind
of soy something or other or oat something
or other, some kind of, it appeared to
be, non-dairy.
(48:33):
And I said, since it was not just
a cup of coffee with a milk of
whatever kind, it was sort of a fancy
thing.
I said, is that vegan?
And they said, I don't know.
So, and it said like oats.
So, I think that all these baristas need
to be informed of what drinks are vegan
(48:55):
for their business.
Not just to do me a personal favour,
but because there's a lot of people like
me going in and saying, is that vegan
or does it, sometimes the powders have dairy
in them.
Because sometimes they'll have like a little powder,
you know.
And I don't want to take that risk.
So, I just said, no, I'm not going
to have it.
But if I knew 100% it was
(49:15):
completely vegan, I would have tried it.
Now, let me say one other thing, because
obviously Starbucks also serves food.
Again, I want to say, full disclosure, I
haven't been into a Starbucks to really look
for anything or buy anything, except for that
one incident in a long time.
But I was in Switzerland, in Zurich.
(49:37):
And I walked into a Starbucks and they
had the most incredible vegan waffle.
In fact, this one lady and I kind
of, we kind of had a tug of
war over it for a minute.
The guy behind the counter said, oh, you
know, these sell like hotcakes.
And I thought, why the heck aren't we
having this in the United States?
(49:58):
I'd like to ask both of you.
Why is it that a lot of countries
in Europe, they didn't have the surcharge, but
they had it here in the United States?
And from my own personal observation, Starbucks in
other countries like Switzerland are offering vegan options
that are not available in the United States.
(50:18):
Dotsie?
Well, here's something that you really don't want
to know.
And the listeners don't really want to know.
But one thing that we uncovered that was
unrelated to the non-dairy milk upcharge with
the whistleblowers, most of their sugary syrups at
Starbucks have bone char.
(50:39):
So if you're getting a vanilla latte like
I used to, it has bone char in
it.
So there's not a lot of speciality drinks
at Starbucks that are vegan.
So that's just disgusting.
I have to say legally, I can't independently
confirm that.
(50:59):
That's the first I've heard of it.
So again, I would invite Starbucks on any
time to respond to anything said by me,
Dotsie or Amber or anybody.
We would love to dialogue with you and
set the record straight on all of this.
But thank you for doing your investigations, Dotsie.
(51:19):
So where do we go from here?
We've only got two minutes.
Final thoughts.
Where do we go from here?
Can I just take a day off?
No.
You sure?
Oh, my God.
We keep hammering.
We don't stop.
I mean, a coffee shop is a coffee
shop, even though it's a multinational coffee shop,
(51:40):
multi-international coffee shop.
But we keep fighting with all the things
that we're already fighting for.
And after yesterday, I'm feeling a little bit
down about our federal legislation.
But that's not going to stop us, right?
We fight.
You fight.
Amber fights.
And we keep going.
We can't not fight.
When I wake up on mornings like this
(52:01):
morning and feel like I don't know where
we're going or what just happened, I always
try and remind myself if I wasn't doing
this, I wouldn't be able to live with
myself.
The three of us are incapable of not
fighting.
And Tom says put Dotsie on the team
immediately.
I said, Dotsie can put me on the
team.
We're on the same team.
(52:21):
It's her team.
I'm on the team.
All right.
We're all on the same team.
Amber, what are your thoughts?
What's next?
Where do we go with this victory?
PETA's motto, one of many, is never be
silent.
Every animal is someone.
And we are just going to keep plugging
away at that.
(52:42):
Whether it's Starbucks or any other company that's
exploiting animals, we don't stop.
We just don't stop.
We're going to keep going.
And we need to get everybody on board.
So come with us.
I got the super glue.
Yeah.
And once again, I want to compliment both
these organisations for being so relentless.
(53:04):
I mean, if you look at some of
these protests, this is not easy to pull
off.
These are difficult to pull off.
They involve tremendous coordination.
And the people here are almost exclusively volunteers.
There I am, a volunteer, shouting.
And there's one of the leaders of Switch
(53:26):
for Good, along with Dotsie Bausch.
People think, oh, are we doing all this
because it's fun?
No.
There's plenty of other things that I would
have rather done in a perfect world other
than go and drive to a Starbucks and
stand there and chant for an hour and
a half.
(53:46):
But we do it because the animals cannot
speak for themselves.
The planet cannot speak for itself.
And humans need to know that there's an
alternative to dairy that is zero cholesterol, that's
better for them, better for the animals, and
better for the planet.
(54:07):
So I just want to say thank you
both.
I know you are very, very busy, busy
people.
And I can't tell you how much I
appreciate you coming here today and just celebrating
this victory.
This is a major, major victory.
Again, according to Dotsie, Starbucks is the leading
(54:29):
purveyor of dairy in the United States aside
from the U.S. government and government institutions.
So it's a major breakthrough.
I will say once again, thank you, Starbucks.
We're going to sing your praises today for
doing the right thing.
And we invite you on anytime.
Meanwhile, I urge everybody to download Unchained TV.
(54:53):
We are the world's only vegan streaming television
network.
And we are mostly volunteer run.
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
And check us out.
So it's a vegan network.
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained, Unchained TV.
Your life will change.
It's just that easy.
(55:15):
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
everybody.
Unchained TV changed my life.
Unchained TV is crushing it.
I love Unchained TV.
Unchained TV is my go-to.
Unchained TV, who knew?
Unchained, baby, yay!
(55:35):
So you can download Unchained TV on your
phone.
You can download it on any TV with
Amazon Fire Stick, Roku device, or Apple TV
device.
It's also on all Samsung TVs and about
to go on all LG TVs.
And I tell you, there's about 2,000
videos, including this one, that are a lot
of fun to watch and highly educational.
(55:56):
All free.
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
Thank you very much, ladies.
Rock on!
Bye-bye, VAMPers!
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