April 14, 2022 • 14 mins
In this episode, we continue the conversation with Todd Garrity, LAc, this time discussing how he approaches pain relief in his acupuncture practice.
While most people know that acupuncture can treat pain, there is a lot more to it than sticking needles into painful muscles. In particular, Todd's use of the Korean Hand Therapy system presents an alternative approach, which we discuss here as well as in videos on our Youtube channel.
Don't forget to leave us questions, topics and feedback on the podcast page of our website!
During this short discussion we touch on a variety of interesting topics including:
- What sorts of pain acupuncture can treat
- How an acupuncture microsystem works to treat pain
- The role of burning mugwort - moxibustion - in treatment of pain
- How surgical procedures can interrupt qi flow, and how treatment can help
- How treating the root of a disease is different from chasing symptoms
Some things mentioned on the podcast that you might want to explore further:
- Acupressure pellets
- Lion moxa warmers
- A great book about moxibustion, meant for practitioners and very curious patients
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello there and welcome to the Watershed
Wellness podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Grey.
I'm one of the co-owners ofWatershed Wellness here in
Astoria, Oregon.
This is the second episode ofour sort of second season of the
podcast starting up here in2022.
We continue our conversationwith Todd Garrity who is an
acupuncturist here at theclinic.
(00:40):
Whereas b efore we w ere, w eretalking more about his
background a nd education here,we actually start to dig into
some of the practice.
So we discuss the treatment ofdifferent kinds of pain using
acupuncture and, and start todig in a little bit to how it
actually works, u m, from, fromTodd's perspective.
And in particular, hisperspective as a person who
(01:00):
practices a special kind ofacupuncture called Korean hand
therapy, u m, which we dodiscuss a bit here in this
episode please share thisepisode with others.
If you find it useful you canfind our podcast at
watershedwellnesspodcast.com Andthat's a great page to share
with others.
We are on all the major podcastsnetworks, so you can find us
(01:21):
there in your apps.
Um, and we always welcomefeedback.
So there on thatwatershedwellnesspodcast.com
page, you'll find a link to acontact form.
And if you just wanna let usknow how you liked the episode,
or maybe give us some, somefeedback or even suggest an
episode or somebody we mightinterview we're very happy to
receive that.
So again,watershedwellnesspodcast.com,
(01:45):
And you'll find all theinformation you need to enjoy
the podcast there.
So, thanks again for listeningand we look forward to seeing
you on our next episode.
Okay.
So I'm here with Todd again, andwe're gonna talk a little bit
about some of the things thatacupuncture treats and
specifically some of the thingsyou tend to treat quite a bit.
(02:06):
We'll start out, just talking alittle bit about pain.
Musculoskeletal pain, I think isprobably the most well known use
of acupuncture.
Um, a lot of our first time newpatients are pain, pain
oriented, low back pain beingthe most interesting one, but
Korean hand therapy is a reallyI think a lot of times when
people come in for paintreatment, they expect if you
(02:27):
have a low back pain, you get abunch of needles in the back,
right?
Like it's, it's a very naturalway to think about it.
But Korean hand therapy ofcourse, is quite famous for
treating pain.
I know that you do sometimes dolocal treatment, but it's really
about that microsystem on thehand.
So maybe if you can just talkfor a couple minutes about what
kind of pain you've beentreating, how it works and maybe
(02:47):
how does that work or how do youunderstand that working?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah.
So when we're looking atMicrosystems of the body that,
that relate to the macro systemof the body, what, what we're
doing is by putting acupressureor needles, or even if I do moxa
on those points on the hand,what we're doing is we're
activating the nervous system.
So your nervous system is takinga look at this at this, let's
(03:14):
say you have the acupressurepellet, which is a little silver
ball that has a bandaid backing.
That's on a specific point thatrelates to in this example, the
low back.
So your nervous system is takinga look at what is this thing on
the hand?
And then it sends a signal tolook at the back.
Well, once your nervous systemlooks at the back and sees the
(03:37):
issue, that's there, then acellular response is initiated
immediately.
So the thing that I'm lovingabout the Korean hand
acupressure is I use thosepoints and then within five
minutes, we should see aresponse.
So if there is not an immediateresponse, then we have the wrong
point.
(03:58):
So then I get the point, checkout and look for another point.
So in that way, I'm able to makesure that we have the exact
points.
So then I mark those and thepatient replaces those hand
discs at night.
So while you're sleeping andyour body is working on, on
healing and repairing thetissues, the nervous system is
(04:21):
kind of hyper aware of what'sgoing on, those areas of pain
that we're wanting to bring moreattention to.
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right.
And you know I think it's reallyimportant to understand that
there's obviously many points onthe body.
And different points on the handgo to different parts of the
body.
But how do you treat chronicversus acute pains differently?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So when I look at, we look at pain with looking at the
Chinese medicine patterns.
And so, so some of these, wewill actually be treating the
underlying patterns.
So with fibromyalgia, we'rewanting to move spleen Chi that
can be deficient and, and stuckoften there's a lot, lot of
(05:16):
dampness involved in that aswell.
So for those sorts of things,I'm actually using different
protocols, much like what we dowith body acupuncture.
Right?
So those points that are pointcombinations, I will find those
same points on the hands.
Right.
Um, so that then becomes alittle more complex, um, as far
(05:36):
as the finding the correctpoints to, to utilize and when
I'm using, um, the handacupuncture for, uh, for acute
issues, but also for chronic,I'm noticing that combining it
with moxa is really powerful.
(05:57):
Yeah.
So often I'll do the, the handpoints and then while your body
is processing that I'll get outthe lion moxa use that over the
area of pain.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And so what moxa does is it's basically a blood mover.
And so that's helping to movesome blood to that area.
And, and for anybody who'slistening, who doesn't know what
moxa is, it can also be referredto as MOBU as the whole name.
And this is actually atherapeutic modality that was
(06:31):
used prior to the invention ofacupuncture before they knew how
to safely Pierce the body theyused, they used heat and that's
something that's still usedtoday.
And the lion warmer that you'rereferring to is just a special
device for, for delivering thatheat to the body.
Right.
So, yeah.
So what do you, what do youthink is going on there?
Why, why does the moxa seem tohelp?
(06:51):
Well, when we are looking at thevery basic way that, um, that
Chinese medicine looks at thebody is energy Chi and blood are
flowing through this highwaysystem that we call the
meridians, right?
So wherever there's a blockagein that system, then pain
results.
Right?
(07:12):
So by using the moxa, we'rehelping to reestablish that flow
of Chi where it's been broken.
Yeah.
So another thing that is reallyhelpful, and I, I try to spread
the word about this is wheneveryou have surgery, whenever the
body is being cut into that isgoing to cut across those
(07:36):
meridians.
Right.
So no, no matter what sort ofsurgery, even if it's big or
small, you need to do something.
And of course we think thatChinese medicine is most helpful
to reestablish that flow of Chiyeah.
The communication across thecut, right?
Yeah.
So that's why often someone willhave a surgery and then years
(07:57):
later they have choose a alongthat, that channel.
Right.
Or even in the organ system thatthe channel was cut through, in
some cases I've seen, you know,mm-hmm,, mm-hmm
.
Yeah.
And that, that's actually aperfect dovetail with the
conversation about moxa, becauseof course, one of the best scar
treatments, especially old scarsthat I know of is MOBU,
especially the line warmer, justdirect over the scar tissue
(08:19):
shoes.
It, it makes an immediatesoftening difference, but over
time it's kind of incrediblehow, how powerful it can be for
that.
Mm-hmm so, yeah.
To your point, for sure.
Mm-hmm um, I, and Ireally enjoy like, being able to
see the progress.
I had a patient recently who hadpretty serious surgery.
And so those scar ours werepretty fresh.
(08:42):
Yeah.
And using the moxa, it just,every, every week seeing this
patient, it was a hugedifference.
So, you know, and that'ssomething that patients can do
at home as well.
So we can send them home withsome of the smokeless moxa.
Right.
That with instruction, if theyuse it at home, their results
(09:03):
are just, yeah, totally tenfold.
Yeah.
And this, and in this reallydamp and cold climate, you know,
I have some patients, especiallyelders patients who, when they
do moxa all through the winter,there's so, so much warmer.
They have so much less of thatcold in their bones, you know,
it's, um, it's pretty incrediblestuff.
It's you would think, you know,you're just, it seems so simple,
(09:24):
but it's just, that's justChinese medicine, right.
Like something so simple canhave such a profound result.
Yeah.
Well, and moxa is the herbitself is mug war.
Yeah.
Which is basically a weed yeah.
Case grows everywhere and hasfor yeah.
Centuries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's all kinds ofinteresting stuff.
I mean, there's, we have, wehave these books here at the
clinic, these great books, um,all about moabs, I'll put some
(09:46):
links in there cuz people,people like Mox, especially cuz
it's a home treatment, you know,it's pretty, mm-hmm,
pretty, prettywell beloved.
Um, a quick question.
So, um, you know, like low, likelet's low back pain is one thing
E everybody I think who might belistening to this knows that
acupuncture can help with lowback pain.
Um, but what are some likeunusual pains or some pains that
(10:08):
you weren't, you know, that youweren't sure there was gonna be
success with, but there was, orthings that you often noticed
that, you know, pain, especiallythat patients don't don't know
that acupuncture can help.
Is there anything like, you know, fringy or interesting to talk
about?
I think fibromyalgia is one that, um, is really important for
people to know that acupuncturecan be helpful and herbal
(10:29):
therapy as well.
Yeah.
You can speak to, to that forsure.
Um, because when peoplefibromyalgia go to the Western
doctor, they're chasing pain.
Yeah.
So it's a different area.
Every time they go to thedoctor, well it's for us, we, we
look at what's going on with thewhole body system.
(10:51):
And so our treatments are verydifferent.
They're not as directed in thisarea because as if someone comes
in and they're saying, well, myknee hurts today.
Well last, last time your wristhurt.
Yeah.
But there's actually, it's, it'sneither, it's the whole system
just isn't flowing.
Yeah.
That's that great distinctionthat Chinese medicine, uh, has
(11:12):
between the root treatment andthe branch treatment.
Right.
You can go to, to any kind ofdoctor and they can give you
pain, relieving, you know,things that you sometimes will
help.
Although in the case offibromyalgia, often those don't
help at all.
But, but yeah, they're chasingthe, the branch, the branches of
the tree, but they're notattacking the root, which is
really what you need to do, um,with, with a disease, especially
like that multi-system diseaselike that.
(11:34):
So yeah.
That's a great, that's a greatexample.
One, one thing.
And I just wanna ask if you'vehad much experience treating
this, um, headaches.
It's so funny, like people knowthat acupuncture treats pain,
but it's surprising how fewpeople know that it treats
headaches extraordinarily.
Well, do you do a lot of that?
I do a lot of it and peoplewith, yeah.
They'll come in with an extrememigraine and in just a matter of
(11:57):
minutes that it, it goes awaybecause it's just energy stuck
in the head.
Yeah.
So what we'll often do withthings like that is I'll use a
lot of points on the feet, right.
And that will help to draw thatenergy down and pulls it away.
And the other thing that'sinteresting about headaches is
based on the location, on wherethey're feeling the pain on the
(12:21):
head that lets us know whichenergy channels are involved and
there it, it can be verydifferent.
Yeah.
So a spleen stomach relatedheadache is gonna be a frontal
kind of dull headache.
Whereas liver gallbladder willbe on the temples and can tend
to be a tighter sort ofheadache.
(12:42):
And of course brings me to, youknow, talking about spleen,
stomach liver, gallbladder.
We're not necessarily sayingthat there's anything wrong with
the organ specifically.
Right.
But the meridians that do happento go through those organs
right.
Ha are named after the organs.
Right.
Right.
Which, yeah, it's always alittle confusing for folks, you
(13:02):
know?
Um, I, I think the way I'vealways heard it describe, you
know, that really helped me wasto understand the organs, the,
the names of those organs iskind of being like, um, a label
of an overall system thatincludes that organ system, but
also goes beyond it.
And so when we are treatingpatients, we're generally
treating the, the othermanifestations of that, the
(13:24):
energetic or the channelmanifestations, as opposed to
the Oregon manifestations.
So that makes some sense to me.
Mm-hmm but you know, I've also seen actual, you
know, there can be changes inthose organ systems.
Um, but it's, that's not ourpoint.
It's not our focus, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, uh, let's, let's justbecause we're getting up, you
know, past 10 minutes here, Iwanna, uh, stop this one, but,
(13:45):
uh, we'll certainly revisit someof these topics, uh, in the
future.
So.
Hello there and welcome to the Watershed
Wellness podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Grey.
I'm one of the co-owners ofWatershed Wellness here in
Astoria, Oregon.
This is the second episode ofour sort of second season of the
podcast starting up here in2022.
We continue our conversationwith Todd Garrity who is an
acupuncturist here at theclinic.
(00:40):
Whereas b efore we w ere, w eretalking more about his
background a nd education here,we actually start to dig into
some of the practice.
So we discuss the treatment ofdifferent kinds of pain using
acupuncture and, and start todig in a little bit to how it
actually works, u m, from, fromTodd's perspective.
And in particular, hisperspective as a person who
(01:00):
practices a special kind ofacupuncture called Korean hand
therapy, u m, which we dodiscuss a bit here in this
episode please share thisepisode with others.
If you find it useful you canfind our podcast at
watershedwellnesspodcast.com Andthat's a great page to share
with others.
We are on all the major podcastsnetworks, so you can find us
(01:21):
there in your apps.
Um, and we always welcomefeedback.
So there on thatwatershedwellnesspodcast.com
page, you'll find a link to acontact form.
And if you just wanna let usknow how you liked the episode,
or maybe give us some, somefeedback or even suggest an
episode or somebody we mightinterview we're very happy to
receive that.
So again,watershedwellnesspodcast.com,
(01:45):
And you'll find all theinformation you need to enjoy
the podcast there.
So, thanks again for listeningand we look forward to seeing
you on our next episode.
Okay.
So I'm here with Todd again, andwe're gonna talk a little bit
about some of the things thatacupuncture treats and
specifically some of the thingsyou tend to treat quite a bit.
(02:06):
We'll start out, just talking alittle bit about pain.
Musculoskeletal pain, I think isprobably the most well known use
of acupuncture.
Um, a lot of our first time newpatients are pain, pain
oriented, low back pain beingthe most interesting one, but
Korean hand therapy is a reallyI think a lot of times when
people come in for paintreatment, they expect if you
(02:27):
have a low back pain, you get abunch of needles in the back,
right?
Like it's, it's a very naturalway to think about it.
But Korean hand therapy ofcourse, is quite famous for
treating pain.
I know that you do sometimes dolocal treatment, but it's really
about that microsystem on thehand.
So maybe if you can just talkfor a couple minutes about what
kind of pain you've beentreating, how it works and maybe
(02:47):
how does that work or how do youunderstand that working?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah.
So when we're looking atMicrosystems of the body that,
that relate to the macro systemof the body, what, what we're
doing is by putting acupressureor needles, or even if I do moxa
on those points on the hand,what we're doing is we're
activating the nervous system.
So your nervous system is takinga look at this at this, let's
(03:14):
say you have the acupressurepellet, which is a little silver
ball that has a bandaid backing.
That's on a specific point thatrelates to in this example, the
low back.
So your nervous system is takinga look at what is this thing on
the hand?
And then it sends a signal tolook at the back.
Well, once your nervous systemlooks at the back and sees the
(03:37):
issue, that's there, then acellular response is initiated
immediately.
So the thing that I'm lovingabout the Korean hand
acupressure is I use thosepoints and then within five
minutes, we should see aresponse.
So if there is not an immediateresponse, then we have the wrong
point.
(03:58):
So then I get the point, checkout and look for another point.
So in that way, I'm able to makesure that we have the exact
points.
So then I mark those and thepatient replaces those hand
discs at night.
So while you're sleeping andyour body is working on, on
healing and repairing thetissues, the nervous system is
(04:21):
kind of hyper aware of what'sgoing on, those areas of pain
that we're wanting to bring moreattention to.
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right.
And you know I think it's reallyimportant to understand that
there's obviously many points onthe body.
And different points on the handgo to different parts of the
body.
But how do you treat chronicversus acute pains differently?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So when I look at, we look at pain with looking at the
Chinese medicine patterns.
And so, so some of these, wewill actually be treating the
underlying patterns.
So with fibromyalgia, we'rewanting to move spleen Chi that
can be deficient and, and stuckoften there's a lot, lot of
(05:16):
dampness involved in that aswell.
So for those sorts of things,I'm actually using different
protocols, much like what we dowith body acupuncture.
Right?
So those points that are pointcombinations, I will find those
same points on the hands.
Right.
Um, so that then becomes alittle more complex, um, as far
(05:36):
as the finding the correctpoints to, to utilize and when
I'm using, um, the handacupuncture for, uh, for acute
issues, but also for chronic,I'm noticing that combining it
with moxa is really powerful.
(05:57):
Yeah.
So often I'll do the, the handpoints and then while your body
is processing that I'll get outthe lion moxa use that over the
area of pain.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And so what moxa does is it's basically a blood mover.
And so that's helping to movesome blood to that area.
And, and for anybody who'slistening, who doesn't know what
moxa is, it can also be referredto as MOBU as the whole name.
And this is actually atherapeutic modality that was
(06:31):
used prior to the invention ofacupuncture before they knew how
to safely Pierce the body theyused, they used heat and that's
something that's still usedtoday.
And the lion warmer that you'rereferring to is just a special
device for, for delivering thatheat to the body.
Right.
So, yeah.
So what do you, what do youthink is going on there?
Why, why does the moxa seem tohelp?
(06:51):
Well, when we are looking at thevery basic way that, um, that
Chinese medicine looks at thebody is energy Chi and blood are
flowing through this highwaysystem that we call the
meridians, right?
So wherever there's a blockagein that system, then pain
results.
Right?
(07:12):
So by using the moxa, we'rehelping to reestablish that flow
of Chi where it's been broken.
Yeah.
So another thing that is reallyhelpful, and I, I try to spread
the word about this is wheneveryou have surgery, whenever the
body is being cut into that isgoing to cut across those
(07:36):
meridians.
Right.
So no, no matter what sort ofsurgery, even if it's big or
small, you need to do something.
And of course we think thatChinese medicine is most helpful
to reestablish that flow of Chiyeah.
The communication across thecut, right?
Yeah.
So that's why often someone willhave a surgery and then years
(07:57):
later they have choose a alongthat, that channel.
Right.
Or even in the organ system thatthe channel was cut through, in
some cases I've seen, you know,mm-hmm,
Yeah.
And that, that's actually aperfect dovetail with the
conversation about moxa, becauseof course, one of the best scar
treatments, especially old scarsthat I know of is MOBU,
especially the line warmer, justdirect over the scar tissue
(08:19):
shoes.
It, it makes an immediatesoftening difference, but over
time it's kind of incrediblehow, how powerful it can be for
that.
Mm-hmm
To your point, for sure.
Mm-hmm
see the progress.
I had a patient recently who hadpretty serious surgery.
And so those scar ours werepretty fresh.
(08:42):
Yeah.
And using the moxa, it just,every, every week seeing this
patient, it was a hugedifference.
So, you know, and that'ssomething that patients can do
at home as well.
So we can send them home withsome of the smokeless moxa.
Right.
That with instruction, if theyuse it at home, their results
(09:03):
are just, yeah, totally tenfold.
Yeah.
And this, and in this reallydamp and cold climate, you know,
I have some patients, especiallyelders patients who, when they
do moxa all through the winter,there's so, so much warmer.
They have so much less of thatcold in their bones, you know,
it's, um, it's pretty incrediblestuff.
It's you would think, you know,you're just, it seems so simple,
(09:24):
but it's just, that's justChinese medicine, right.
Like something so simple canhave such a profound result.
Yeah.
Well, and moxa is the herbitself is mug war.
Yeah.
Which is basically a weed yeah.
Case grows everywhere and hasfor yeah.
Centuries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's all kinds ofinteresting stuff.
I mean, there's, we have, wehave these books here at the
clinic, these great books, um,all about moabs, I'll put some
(09:46):
links in there cuz people,people like Mox, especially cuz
it's a home treatment, you know,it's pretty, mm-hmm,
Um, a quick question.
So, um, you know, like low, likelet's low back pain is one thing
E everybody I think who might belistening to this knows that
acupuncture can help with lowback pain.
Um, but what are some likeunusual pains or some pains that
(10:08):
you weren't, you know, that youweren't sure there was gonna be
success with, but there was, orthings that you often noticed
that, you know, pain, especiallythat patients don't don't know
that acupuncture can help.
Is there anything like, you know, fringy or interesting to talk
about?
I think fibromyalgia is one that, um, is really important for
people to know that acupuncturecan be helpful and herbal
(10:29):
therapy as well.
Yeah.
You can speak to, to that forsure.
Um, because when peoplefibromyalgia go to the Western
doctor, they're chasing pain.
Yeah.
So it's a different area.
Every time they go to thedoctor, well it's for us, we, we
look at what's going on with thewhole body system.
(10:51):
And so our treatments are verydifferent.
They're not as directed in thisarea because as if someone comes
in and they're saying, well, myknee hurts today.
Well last, last time your wristhurt.
Yeah.
But there's actually, it's, it'sneither, it's the whole system
just isn't flowing.
Yeah.
That's that great distinctionthat Chinese medicine, uh, has
(11:12):
between the root treatment andthe branch treatment.
Right.
You can go to, to any kind ofdoctor and they can give you
pain, relieving, you know,things that you sometimes will
help.
Although in the case offibromyalgia, often those don't
help at all.
But, but yeah, they're chasingthe, the branch, the branches of
the tree, but they're notattacking the root, which is
really what you need to do, um,with, with a disease, especially
like that multi-system diseaselike that.
(11:34):
So yeah.
That's a great, that's a greatexample.
One, one thing.
And I just wanna ask if you'vehad much experience treating
this, um, headaches.
It's so funny, like people knowthat acupuncture treats pain,
but it's surprising how fewpeople know that it treats
headaches extraordinarily.
Well, do you do a lot of that?
I do a lot of it and peoplewith, yeah.
They'll come in with an extrememigraine and in just a matter of
(11:57):
minutes that it, it goes awaybecause it's just energy stuck
in the head.
Yeah.
So what we'll often do withthings like that is I'll use a
lot of points on the feet, right.
And that will help to draw thatenergy down and pulls it away.
And the other thing that'sinteresting about headaches is
based on the location, on wherethey're feeling the pain on the
(12:21):
head that lets us know whichenergy channels are involved and
there it, it can be verydifferent.
Yeah.
So a spleen stomach relatedheadache is gonna be a frontal
kind of dull headache.
Whereas liver gallbladder willbe on the temples and can tend
to be a tighter sort ofheadache.
(12:42):
And of course brings me to, youknow, talking about spleen,
stomach liver, gallbladder.
We're not necessarily sayingthat there's anything wrong with
the organ specifically.
Right.
But the meridians that do happento go through those organs
right.
Ha are named after the organs.
Right.
Right.
Which, yeah, it's always alittle confusing for folks, you
(13:02):
know?
Um, I, I think the way I'vealways heard it describe, you
know, that really helped me wasto understand the organs, the,
the names of those organs iskind of being like, um, a label
of an overall system thatincludes that organ system, but
also goes beyond it.
And so when we are treatingpatients, we're generally
treating the, the othermanifestations of that, the
(13:24):
energetic or the channelmanifestations, as opposed to
the Oregon manifestations.
So that makes some sense to me.
Mm-hmm
know, there can be changes inthose organ systems.
Um, but it's, that's not ourpoint.
It's not our focus, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, uh, let's, let's justbecause we're getting up, you
know, past 10 minutes here, Iwanna, uh, stop this one, but,
(13:45):
uh, we'll certainly revisit someof these topics, uh, in the
future.
So.
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