September 24, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, Brandon Neely sits down with estate planning and probate attorney Paul Deloughery to explore the deeper meaning behind inheritance, legacy, and wealth transfer. You’ll hear Paul share eye-opening insights on why some families flourish after inheriting wealth, while others fall apart. The conversation goes beyond wills and trusts to uncover how estate planning is really about protecting relationships, not just assets.
Together, we discuss:
- Why estate planning matters and the myths that keep people from doing it.
- Paul’s sudden inheritance story and the reality of Sudden Wealth Syndrome.
- How grief, trauma, and family secrets can complicate financial decisions.
- The dangers of poor planning, from taxes to risky investments.
- Why passing down values and vision matters as much as passing down money.
- Practical steps: family meetings, communication, and building a professional support team.
- Why the greatest inheritance is love and connection, not just financial assets.
👤 About Our Guest:
Paul Deloughery is an estate planning and probate attorney based in Phoenix, Arizona. He’s the author of Lasting Wealth: A Revolutionary Method of Family Wealth Transfer—a guide to building multi-generational wealth with intention and heart. Paul’s mission? Helping families protect not just what they’ve built, but who they are.
📘 Get the Book:
Lasting Wealth: A Revolutionary Method of Family Wealth Transfer – Available on Amazon
👉 If you’ve ever wondered how to prepare your family for both the money and the meaning you want to leave behind, this conversation with Paul will give you both cautionary lessons and hopeful guidance.
00:00 Introduction and welcome
00:52 Meet Paul Deloughery: 25+ years in estate planning and trust litigation
02:50 Why estate planning matters + common myths
05:46 Paul’s personal story: sudden inheritance at age 42
06:55 Sudden Wealth Syndrome explained
07:42 How Paul lost wealth to taxes and risky investments
09:29 The emotional side of inheritance
10:27 Why you need a plan (or others will take advantage)
13:02 Family values, context, and vision for wealth
14:45 Trauma, secrets, and their financial impact
17:01 Healing and creating new habits
18:34 Legacy through family meetings and communication
21:10 Advice for families: start early, plan well
24:23 Who Paul helps (it’s not just the ultra-wealthy)
25:53 Building a team: attorney, tax, financial
27:44 Closing thoughts: the biggest inheritance is love and family connection
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Fdu1XdSoUU0
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey guys, welcome to Wealth WisdomFinancial YouTube channel podcast.
So as you notice, we've been doing alot of interviews and you know that we
love to think with the end in mind, youknow, being profit first certified being
infinite banking certified, we wannathink about, um, what happens in the end.
(00:24):
Like how do we reverse architectthings and so what better.
Way to think about that.
And as the end of life, end ofhow I end things and how we make
sure that everything we had built,kinda like the, the Rockefellers
will go into the right direction.
(00:44):
So today I get tointerview, uh, an attorney.
Uh, yeah.
We're, we're not gonna goall, all attorney language.
Maybe a little bit, but basically, um,this guy Paul, Paul Del Gort, uh, he had
some amazing things happen and you know,he's been doing this stuff for a while.
(01:07):
Right.
He has over 25 years of legal expertise.
Uh, he has a law firm.
All the things to how to simplify probate,and again, I know probate and have to,
had to deal with some of it personally,um, because of family things that
they did not take care of this stuff.
And so we wanna like help youunderstand this so he doesn't just.
(01:29):
Speak about it from his legalexperience, but he also, uh,
inherited, uh, a lot of money andlet him tell the story, uh, that, um,
made him think about this even more.
So, um, I'm not gonna keep goingon about, uh, how amazing Paul is.
I mean, you know, he went toschool for, for being a lawyer,
(01:51):
so he has to be smart, right?
But I wanted to have him on sohe can explain to you why you
might need to talk to somebody.
Like him.
Hey Paul.
Thanks for having us being here.
Um, so good to see you.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit, you areone of those attorneys that, that
(02:12):
people like when they see you on thestreet, they, they look the other way.
I'm one of those attorneys.
Yeah.
Oh, this is starting off good.
So, so tell us, you're,you're an attorney.
Yes.
You, you're, you've been inthis world, you've probably
seen all kinds of crazy stuff.
Um, you, you went toschool to learn all this.
(02:33):
Um, and what happens?
Like what, what, what happens now?
You, you have the knowledge.
Tell us a little bit about howyou end up where you're at today.
Uh, thanks and thanksfor having me on Brandon.
Um, so yeah, I, I went to schooland, um, started practicing law
(02:55):
about 25 years ago, helping people.
Then, uh, I, I moved to Arizonaback, um, around 2002 and, um.
I, I was a partner in a law firm andwe did high end estate planning, estate
planning, and asset protection for mm-hmm.
Primarily for dentists and doctors and,and, uh, business owners, affluent people.
(03:20):
Um, and I had a sense that I,I just needed to get some more.
Some more like in-depth knowledge.
Like it, it, it seemed very academic.
Um, we were meeting with clientsand I was saying, oh, you need this
and you need that and everything.
And it, it seemed like it wascoming from just me having learned
(03:42):
it as opposed to having lived it.
And so I went off on my own and,uh, started a law firm and I, I did,
um, a lot of probate, litigation,probate and trust litigation.
Um.
Sounds exciting.
Yeah.
Well, um, so, so the inter,like, the interesting thing is,
(04:02):
uh, the, there's, uh, oh, thereare a lot of myths in this area.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and one, one of themyths, I, I mean, honestly, it's
a, it's a marketing slogan thatyou need a trust to avoid probate.
And, um, and a, a trust can avoid probatejust like a, a car, like a car with a, um.
(04:27):
An airbag can help you avoidinjury, but it doesn't guarantee it.
And, uh, it, it reallydepends on the situation.
Um, anyway, so I, I got into a lotof different messes and, but I, I
was still pretty cocky, uh, and, andconfident that I knew everything.
And I even wrote anarticle, I, I remember this.
(04:47):
This all happened within about a year.
So I, I, I wrote an article in alocal newspaper about what to do if
you come into, um, sudden Money or.
Like a financial windfall.
And, uh, it, it, and then, um,and I'll give the story very fast.
Um, there you can, Ihave a book on Amazon.
(05:11):
Uh, you can read it if you wannalearn more, but basically I, uh,
I met my biological father forthe first time at the age of 42.
Mm-hmm.
Six weeks later, he was in the hospice.
Um, I went to his home, uh, becauseI, you know, as far as I knew, he,
I, I was his only biological child.
(05:32):
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I went into the home just with,because he, he was not gonna get better.
And with the idea of like, justseeing what, seeing what there
was, trying to, you know, do Ineed to protect something and.
When I walked in, there was a, uh, a, adesk there with a computer and a printer,
(05:54):
and on top of the printer was the,was his, um, let me get this straight.
It was this 2008.
Yeah, 2008, um, federal tax return, andon the bottom of page two, it showed
a $1.8 million, um, passive income.
So I, I, I like, I kind of figured that,okay, he must have some money then.
(06:17):
Um, and it, it, it, and then he,he died a couple days after that.
Um, so for me, and, and then I ended upinheriting, um, o over $28 million of.
Of stock and, uh, I was unprepared.
I didn't know who to trust.
Uh, it, well, I, I mean, now thatsounds funny because I just, I just
(06:38):
wrote an article about what to, whatto do if you come into a windfall, but,
um, there's, um, so there's somethingcalled, um, sudden Wealth Syndrome,
and it, it's a little bit like, um.
Oh, saying that you have inflammation.
Okay.
Yeah.
So the, the word inflammationis not really, uh, descriptive.
(07:02):
Like, you know, is it infl?
You know, do you have an allergy?
Do you have an injury thatyou're not letting heal?
Like what, what's going on?
Um, uh, or you know, do you have somekind of a sickness or, or something.
And sudden wealth syndromeis, is a little bit like that.
It basically describes kindof like overall what happens
to some people who, um.
(07:24):
Who, who just are not psychologicallyor, or mentally prepared to, to
come into a financial windfall.
And, and it, and it's a littlebit complicated, like for me.
Okay.
Uh, oh.
I, I'm sorry, I forgot the punchline.
So, so, um, I, I got this money andthen within about five years, most of
(07:45):
it's gone, like, well, half of it wentto the, um, taxes, estate taxes, yeah.
Yeah.
And then.
Oh, I mean, I was immediately anaccredited investor, and so I,
you know, that's very exciting.
Uh, looking at different, uh, privateequity deals and, and whatnot and, and,
uh, but, but I, I was not trained at,at learning which ones are good and.
(08:09):
Uh, uh, just, uh, uh, spoiler alert,most private equity deals are not good.
Yeah.
So, so anyways, can you saythat, can you say that again?
Most, would you say, yeah.
Most private equity deals are not good.
Like most, you know, there, there'sa reason that bus, there's a
(08:30):
reason that a lot of businesses.
Um, look for investors, it's because theycan't figure out how to grow organically.
Um, now, now there are the, the odd dealswhere they have a great, they have a great
idea and they need an infusion of cash.
Of course, they all say this, they needan infusion of cash in order to grow.
But just, uh, I mean, from my experience,and I'm not an expert at it, well, I,
(08:54):
I, I guess I'm somewhat of an expertat it because I, I lived it, but, um.
But yeah, I mean, most pri privateequity deals, they're, they're, uh,
they're, uh, looking for cash because,you know, their, their expenses are
too high or the, the president, uh, istaking too large of a salary and ha and
has too, too big of a mortgage paymentor, you know, something like that.
(09:17):
Yeah.
So anyway, um.
Yeah, it, so what I've, what Ifound for, for me personally,
um, was I was just not prepared.
Uh, and, and it'sinteresting because, uh, so.
An inheritance is often, well,an inheritance is related to
(09:38):
someone dying, so you have mm-hmm.
You know, you have a loss, whichis generally a negative thing, um,
associated with getting some money,which is generally a positive thing.
Uh, but, but then.
There's all kinds, like, there's allkinds of different associations that
people have, and it depends on theirown, own personal past and mm-hmm.
And, you know, past traumas and,and, uh, how, how well and, and
(10:04):
then how comfortable they arehaving that amount of money.
So for me, for, for me personally, uh,ha having the money was kind of like a.
Um, I, I'll just say it, it feltlike a sick consolation price.
Like I really wanted tohave a father figure.
I didn't want a bunch of money,but here, here's a bunch of money.
(10:26):
And so I, I, I, I justwas not careful with it.
Like, you know, I got this,I, you know, I got the, um.
Oh, what, what do you, uh, you know, the,the second rate prize, which most people
would think, okay, millions of dollars.
Like, what, what are you talking about?
You're crazy.
And, and, and people, it, and thenthe other thing that, that fell
(10:48):
in line with this was because Isuddenly had a whole bunch of money.
I had to be careful who I was talking to.
And most people, most people couldlit, just literally could not.
Um, relate to me like I wastalking about my feelings.
I was talking about,um, the, the anger of.
Um, of being lied to my whole lifeabout who my actual father was and,
(11:12):
and grief and, um, happiness and,and joy at finally meeting him and
then having some money and, and allthese feelings were all intertwined.
And, and, and I, you know, I would tryto tell the average person, and, and all
they heard was, I got a bunch of money.
So anyway, so it's it, but, but thenthe complicated thing is that some
(11:36):
people inherit money or c come into afinancial windfall and they're just fine.
So, um, but, and, and I think it'slike going back to the inflammation
idea, and again, I'm not a doctor, but,um, I, I think it's like, you know.
Some, some people can eat whatever theywant and you know, nothing happens.
But some people, um, eat the typicalAmerican diet and they end up getting,
(12:01):
um, you know, like in intestinalinflammation of the intestines.
Yeah.
All kinds of things.
So you, you mentioned, uh, well,one thing I, I think a lot is if you
don't have a plan for your money,someone else has a plan for it.
So especially if you have a lotof money, uh, coming in, all of
a sudden you're a mark, right?
You're a, you, you now have all yourbest friends that are now needing you.
(12:26):
Or wanting this or this deal or that deal.
And, and a lot of times, and I seethis all the time in the financial
world, is people are lookingfor a way to make more money.
And so they'll, they'll find this,this investing thing, the, as you said,
the deals that there's so many dealsout there, but most of them are crap.
(12:50):
Right.
Um, because if you don't have aplan for your money, someone has a
plan for it, they're gonna use itand, and it's an extraction thing.
Right?
For sure.
For sure.
And also with the tax code and, andwith estate planning and, and all of
that, it's a way to extract as much out.
(13:10):
And if we're, if you'reconfused, you lose.
That's what Donald Miller says, right?
And so, um, especially like, uh, people.
Inherit this money.
They're dealing with mourning and thenthey have 60, 90 days to make decisions.
Uh, did you find that where you had tolike, make fast decisions and you're
(13:31):
like, oh, well I gotta do this now,otherwise it's gonna change in 90 days?
I don't, I don't know.
You're, you're, you'vedealt with this before.
Um,
well, I had that feeling.
It, it's not real.
Like the money wasn't gonna go anywhere.
Like it.
(13:52):
It literally, I, I didn'thave to do anything.
I didn't have to do anything for years.
I mean, okay, I had to pay theestate taxes, but other, other,
other than that, I, I could havejust chilled out, but I, yeah.
Uh, in my, okay, so, and this issomething that probably most people can
cannot relate to, but I'll, I'll tryto, I'll try to bring it around, um,
(14:15):
to make it relate to, um, more people.
But, um, so in my mind I, Ijust paid 50% in estate taxes.
So then like I have that number.
So now I'm trying to figureout, okay, how can I make up
that 50% as fast as possible?
And that got me into the.
The risky, the, the realm ofrisky investments and whatnot.
(14:37):
That's what, that's whatwas going on in my mind.
Um, and so I, I mean, honestly, ifI would've just kept it, yeah, if
I, if I would've just done nothing,I mean the, you know, the stocks
were doing just fine or I could haveconverted it to just mutual funds.
I would've, you know, Madoff just.
Beautifully.
(14:57):
But anyway.
Yeah.
Well, and then, so, so then youwere comparing the, what is that?
It's called sunk cost fallacy.
Yeah.
Yep, yep, yep.
Where, where you were like, oh, butit was this, but, but the reality
is you started with zero, right?
Uh, no money, um, except for what you did.
(15:19):
And then 50 per, evenif it was a hundred or.
A hundred bucks.
That doesn't matter.
A hundred bucks is more than uh, zero.
Right.
Um, but then you're like, well,uh, they took 50% of it, so that's
still $50 is more than zero.
Um, but yeah, we were, we lookand say, well, yeah, but it
(15:42):
could have been a hundred.
Right.
Um, and so whether it's millions or.
You know, a couple hundred thousand ora thousand, still the same thing, right?
So here's the real lesson that I, uh,that I kind of took out of it and,
and I think applies to, um, everyone'sthat if, like, what, what was missing
(16:07):
in, in my situation was context.
Uh, some, like a values or, um.
Meaning like what the moneymeant to my father and what
he would've wanted me to do.
And unfortunately, HHI justthe circumstances, he, he was
(16:28):
never able to tell me this.
It's just, it is kind ofa long story, but mm-hmm.
Um, just the way things worked outand, um, and, and so without that,
I, I was just kind of, I, I mean.
You know, I have a wholebunch of money right now, but
like, without, without a plan.
Again, like you said, like I, um, if youdon't have a plan, you lose, um, and.
(16:52):
And, and it wasn't just, itwasn't just having a willer trust.
'cause the, the willer trustwould've said, I got the, I got the
stocks, or I got the investments.
Okay.
So that, that's not theplan I'm talking about.
The plan I'm talking about is, isis broader and richer than that.
Uh, it, it's the idea of.
(17:14):
Um, like, like for, for itto have a meaning for me.
Yeah.
And, and then, you know, then, then I canvisualize, uh, 'cause it's so important to
be able to visualize what the future is.
And, and, and, and, and for me personally,I was having trouble with that.
And so these, um, shady investment.
(17:35):
People pushers, uh, gave me their vision.
Like, oh, okay, well that sounds great.
I'll invest in, I'll invest in oil wellsin Texas right around the time that
they're discovering oil in North, NorthDakota and the price of oils going down.
That sounds like a great idea.
Yeah.
So, so then as you.
(17:56):
Um, well, let me ask, are,did you have, are you married,
spouse, or anything like that?
Um, not married.
Um, but I, yeah, I have,I, I have two children.
Okay.
So, so it wasn't like anything thatyou're gonna ask, um, your wife,
whoever, uh, what are we gonna do?
Right.
It's, it's between youand, and whatever, right?
(18:16):
So, so if you were to go backand, and let's say, yeah.
Um, well, and I deal withthis all the time, right?
What would you say before you got themoney or before you stepped into this and
you, you've done the, the lawyer thing,you've, you've made decent money, but
(18:39):
what is something you would have said, Iwish somebody would've done this for me.
Not about the money, but about, uh,other parts in our heart and mind
that would've helped you be prepared.
The, there's a simple answer and then amore complex, uh, more accurate answer.
The, the simple answer isjust don't do anything.
(19:02):
And I, I, yeah, no one, no onereally clearly told me that or no.
Anyway, um, the more complex thing, Imean, it actually gets really complex.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because it.
Um, and so this is, well, we're now 15years, um, after the fact, and I'm still,
(19:24):
I'm still kind of processing mm-hmm.
What actually went on.
Um, and honestly what wenton it, it has to do with, uh,
unprocessed childhood trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and just in like, in my own life,it, it, uh, it had to do with my, um.
Well, uh, my mom and relatives, um.
(19:48):
Keeping from me, um, uh,who my real father was.
And then, uh, and, and I, like I, Iwent, I went balls to the wall, uh,
in terms of my, my stepfather's, um,Irish heritage, and I learned bagpipes.
I, I actually even competed in the worldchampionship and bagpipes, um mm-hmm.
(20:09):
In, in Ireland.
Uh, and he was veryproud and all this stuff.
And, and then, then hedied and then, you know.
Come to find out, well, I'mactually not even Irish.
And so like, that, that was, thatwas kind of a kick to the stomach.
Yeah.
Like, and uh, so I, I felt like Iwas, and I, I still a little bit feel
(20:29):
like I'm floundering around and it,it's, it's interesting 'cause the, um.
This, this part of it just, it, it takes along time for people to heal from, and I,
I, I honestly think most people never healfrom, you know, you know, from that kind
of thing, or childhood wounds or whatever.
And we, we end up just kind of doing thebest we can with, I don't know, drinking
(20:54):
or smoking pot or something like that.
Um, and I. I, I have, well, I'venever done the pop thing, but
I, what I'm saying is that, uh,that's, that's a common thing.
It's very, very, very common nowand, and especially with the families
not being as close as, as yeah.
Um, you know, as they used tobe historically and everything.
(21:16):
So, um.
So, so this brings into something I'vebeen, and we've literally been thinking
about this, uh, a ton, uh, in our, um, we,we call it your financial nervous system.
And, you know, we have our nervoussystem and we have traumas that
(21:37):
affect what we do financially.
Right.
Uh, so there's certain traumas,different things that happen that
move in, in, in our decisions, right?
And so, so having healing andthat maybe personal healing will,
will help to figure out what, howwe flow our, our money, right?
(22:02):
If we have other things, uh,we could say, well, we have.
Issues, mom issues, allthe other fun stuff.
Um, but, but really it's, it's takingagency and ownership of the trauma.
Right.
That, that happens.
Um, and so I'm, I'm hearing like,yeah, there was trauma, there's things
that happened, but how would you saysomebody think about both the, their
(22:27):
personal trauma and their financial,how do those intersect for you?
Oh, well, um.
I mean, o overcoming trauma, that'sa, that's something that I'm still, I,
I'm still learning myself, honestly.
Yeah.
Um, I, I've gone farenough to realize that you.
You can't think your way out of it.
(22:47):
Like, it, it is, it, there's no,there's no thinking solution to it.
It, it's a, it's actually a, a somatic,like it's actually in the body.
Like literally, literally the, youknow, the book, the Body Keeps the score
kind of talks about this, like, it's,it's, it's literally a physical thing.
So, so what I've been doing, and thissounds ridiculous, but here, here you go.
(23:09):
Um, I have.
I've kind of, uh, well, I had, oh, okay.
So I had, um, two main wounds.
Uh, that I remember as a childand, and have, have kind of
kept coming up and up for me.
Uh, one was, uh, and this is painfulfor me to even, um, tell, but,
(23:30):
and I've never shared this on theinternet before, so here we go.
Mm-hmm.
So one was, I, there was somethinglike, and I, I can't even remember what
age I was, maybe eight or something.
And, uh.
I, I think I maybe didn't get a, a goodenough grade in school or something.
Like my mom was always pushing, pushingme to get A's, and, and I think I
(23:54):
didn't and, or something like that.
I don't know.
I, anyway, I, so, so I neverlearned the lesson, but the lesson
I did learn is I went to my room.
I closed the door and I told myselfover and over, I'm stupid, I'm
stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid.
And to this day, like that,just, that just ingrained in me.
(24:14):
So, and I'll come back aroundto how I'm fixing that.
Okay.
So that was one serious wound.
Um, and then, oh, what was the other, oh.
Well, the other, I, I guess the otherone was something that just kind of
slipped in there and it, it, it wasa general sense of shame as a child.
(24:35):
Uh, and it like, just thissense of not belonging.
And, and I realize now that what itwas, it, it was like little whispers
when we went to, um, Laure familyreunions and, and, uh, the Laure
relatives would like, say, say something.
Behind my back, but I, I wouldstill hear something like, you
(24:55):
know, well he's not a real laury.
Like, what, what are you talking about?
And so just kind of this and what, andis true I, I. I technically and really
was not a, an actual di I was neveradopted, you know, not biologically, but,
but I was raised to believe that I was.
So, anyway, so it was just confusingto me fast forward now decades and the,
(25:19):
the way I'm doing it kind of, uh, and,and again, it's a silly thing, but, um,
so like I, uh, I, I do a cold showerin the morning and I, and I have my
own mantra trying to just undo that.
So, um, I. Uh, I'm smart,lucky and unashamed.
I'm smart, lucky and unashamed,and I just say that over and over
(25:39):
and it's, you know, it's graduallylike, it's gradually, um, uh.
H help helping me un undo the, uh,you know, undo the physical effects
of, of that, you know, kind, kindof to your point of the, um, the
financial, what, what did you call it?
Financial traumas or Oh, yeah.
Financial nervous system.
(26:00):
Nervous system.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so, um, I, I believe like inour, even our financial world,
we have greed and fear index.
Um, we on CNN, right?
That's what it's, 'cause that's, if it's.
Fearful or greedy.
And, and so that's how themarket is built, right?
Um, and so then we deal with trauma.
(26:21):
Don't touch, don't look at it ifit goes down or don't look at it.
If it goes up, like all those kind ofthings that they didn't mean it, you know,
if 2008 happens, it'll, it'll bounce back.
And I'm like.
That sounds like an abusive relationship.
Um, and, and so we are conditionedfor abusive relationships.
We're conditioned for that.
(26:43):
And, and so whenever I ask, and I, andwe, we are working on a financial, um.
Uh, nervous system, archetyped to knowwhere we're land on this kind of thing.
And, and so we, we've created a, a newtool, not released yet, but it'll be
released when this podcast release.
So go check, click on the links and,and get your financial archetype.
(27:07):
But, um, in those financial,financial archetypes, a lot of
times it comes from our wounds.
Our wounds impact our kindof personalities, right?
And so that's something we'vebeen thinking about a lot.
And as I go through doing a financialanalysis, I, I'm an infinite banking
practitioner, um, and I help on some ofthat, on estate planning and all of that.
(27:34):
But a lot of times people look atthis and they say, oh, well I want
this, this thing, and it's the fruit.
Right.
Uh, a high cash value lifeinsurance policy that's doing its
thing, that's the product of, ofa, a tree that has been growing.
Right?
And I use Profit first and all of that.
(27:56):
But what you mentioned was, and, and wehave a, a system we call the still method.
Right.
Setting your sights, tracking, inspecting,looking for 1%, and living deliberately.
What that is, is your root system.
And a lot of times people'sroots are unhealthy, right?
They, they don't know what theywant because they never ask
(28:18):
themselves what they want, right?
Um, they let, um, uncle Steve, whodidn't have anything, tell them what
they want, even though Steve's dead.
Right?
Um.
And so have you seen, seen that, andI'm sure in this you're dealing with
a lot of psych psychology therapy,even when you're, you're working with
(28:39):
people, they all of a sudden have wealthor, uh, they don't have wealth, but
they need, uh, to, to do some things.
How have you become atherapist, if you will?
In your line of work now, and you'reright, I deal with this all the time.
I mean, I think, do you, do youbecome like a clinic, like a, almost
(28:59):
like a doctor, like you're thedoctor in the lawyer space, right.
You know, with, with that,but, but you probably sense
there's other things happening.
How do you navigate that?
Yeah, so, so there's a. Um, a, aphrase I guess that that attorneys have
historically referred to themselves is,is his attorney and counselor at law.
(29:24):
And I used to be like, for along time I was confused about
the whole counselor part.
Like, well, I can tell you what thelaw is, but I didn't have a clue
'cause I didn't have a clue myself.
So how mm-hmm.
How could I help other people?
But I, what I found is, as I, as I am.
Figuring things out myself, I'mbetter able to help other people
and kind of see, help them seethe big picture and and whatnot.
(29:46):
Um, and it's.
Well, it, it, I, I guess I just havemore perspective now and mm-hmm.
Giving, I think helping peoplesee the perspective is, is
healing and, and helpful.
So, um, yeah, and, and just like ina nutshell, the way I see things,
and I've, I've always seen, I'vealways had this idea, but, um, it's,
(30:09):
it's getting more clear to me now.
It's that, um, o okay, so like society.
Um, has, has different, um, oh, how,how do I say it there, there's different
layers that, that help organize a society.
Yeah.
So first of all, you have, um,aspirations like, uh, back in the fifties,
(30:34):
six, well, fifties and whatnot, youknow, we had Superman and, and yeah.
Uh, you know.
Uh, po uh, what, uh, presidentsthat we looked up to and, and
just like leaders and, and we weremore religious as a people and,
and so like, he had aspirations,okay, you, we wanna be like this.
Then, um, underneath that was justcommonly understood values like
(30:57):
mores, it's, it's called, yeah.
Um.
You know, be trustworthy,keep your promises, um mm-hmm.
That kind of thing.
And then underneath that was the law.
The law.
And the law was just a, or is the safetynet that, that like, you know, if, if all
that other stuff somehow doesn't work,then we still have the law and the issue.
(31:19):
The issue now is that.
Um, we're relying a hundred percent onthe law, and, and we don't, we don't
have these common commonly acceptedvalues and aspirations and, and whatnot.
And so what's, what's needed?
Well, within the family, like, youknow, for, for people you work with and,
(31:42):
and me too is, um, helping them maybe.
C come to some commonly understood valuesthat they want to retain in the family
and pass on to the next generation.
And that's, that's over and above havinga, a will document or something like that.
Yeah.
Um, and, and trying to resolvethings, if at all possible.
(32:03):
Trying to re resolve things out of court.
Um, be because, and, and thengo to court as the last resort.
I mean, we certainly do that.
We do it a lot.
Um, but I think, yeah, there'sjust, there's not as much
communication that goes on now.
You know, like we, we all used to,uh, live in farming villages and we
(32:24):
all saw each other and, you know,we all got together for, for, uh.
Uh, Sunday, Sunday lunch, youknow, after church or whatever.
And, uh, you knew your neighbor.
So we're not doing that as much neighbor.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So.
Well, and, and as I wrote our book, it'scalled, uh, five Smooth Stones Here, and
this book that we wrote, uh, if you'd seeit, uh, it's a, it's a financial money.
(32:49):
Uh, and the reason we wrote itand it, it should say, um, still
method or something like that.
And I mentioned the still method, butwe wrote it for my son who's now seven.
Uh, we wrote it three years ago.
Uh, and it was kind of our ideas ofhow the financial system works and, and
all of that and how to organize money.
(33:09):
And a couple things that I think aboutas, as you guys are listening if you have
families, is we have a couple mantras.
One of our mantras, uh, in our family wascommunicate, communicate, communicate.
Right?
Uh, that's the number one.
You'll solve a lot of thingsif you actually communicate.
Um, the other thing, and my, myson's seven is Neely's show up.
(33:33):
Neely's do show up.
We, we do volunteering, we do allthat stuff and we show up if we say
we're gonna do something, we do.
I love that.
And Neely's do hard things.
Um, and so trying toteach 'em those mantras.
We do hard things, whether we havemoney or not, it doesn't matter.
We're still gonna do hard things.
(33:53):
Um, and, and he's gonna inherit a lotof money because I understand the,
the how law works and how contractswork, because I do life insurance,
it is the base of everything.
And so by having those lifeinsurance policies in place,
I know he's an only son, he'sgonna inherit a ton of money now.
(34:15):
On the other side, uh, I'm likeyou, I I did, I grew up without
a dad, not around in the picture.
Uh, my mom was married six or seventimes, so I got, had seven stepdads
and they have no money on that side.
I can create something differentand you guys, as the listeners can
create something different, learnedfrom our stories and, and sometimes
(34:37):
our pain is our biggest strength.
Uh, Paul's pain is probably nowhis biggest strength, right?
Where.
Learning that it and helpedin the, the broader story.
But you don't have to go throughpain to learn, in my opinion.
Right.
You can listen to this podcast and say,okay, uh, I don't have to not know my
(35:00):
dad for most of my life and then inherita lot of money I could learn from Paul.
Right?
Um, and then do the right things.
'cause I have family members that have.
I'm literally going through this stuff andI'm, I'm picking him up from jail and all
kinds of crazy stuff that I'm like, Hmm,this is crazy when, when this happens.
(35:20):
And this isn't just Paul's familyor my family, it's your family too.
Um, all of us have this, and if weunderstand and begin with the end of mind.
Be thinking about that.
Um, that's an important thing.
So your website, sudden WealthProtection Law, is this just
for the uber, uber wealthy?
(35:43):
Like, like what's No, what,what are we looking at?
Who's your best client?
Oh, my best.
Well, well, primarily what wedo, it's, it's a combination of.
Um, probate and trust litigation,actually, that's like, that's
our bread and butter, honestly.
Uh, just helping people through,you know, pick up the pieces
when when things go, go to.
(36:05):
Hell, I guess, or, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh, and then doing proactiveplanning is, is the other thing.
So no, it has nothing to do withlottery, lottery winners or whatever,
but just good proactive planning.
And I, I loved whatyou were talking about.
You're talking about, um, the FamilyCode of honor, and I wrote, I wrote about
that in my book, um, lasting Wealth.
(36:27):
But yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Like having, having somecore values is so important.
Yeah.
And he knows it.
Um, also, he knows no phones at thedinner table, even though I have
the phone and a lot of times, andhe calls me out, um, which is fine.
Um, and it's, it's ki I'vealso learned not to listen to
(36:49):
the, the really intense books.
Like 10 X is easier thantwo x. I listened that one.
And he is like, you're doing two x stuff.
And I'm like.
Come on now.
Oh, stop.
Stop that.
Um, you're, you're annoying me now, kid.
Um, but, but when is, when would it betime for somebody to reach out to you?
(37:09):
Like if they, uh, they're listening here.
When is the time that they say, I need toreach out to Paul, or somebody like Paul?
Uh, now when did, when should they start?
Well.
Well, because I, I, I'm an attorneyonly in Arizona, so I, I can't practice
(37:31):
law in other states, but, but one thingI could do is, is provide coaching
or consulting for, like, for a familythat is maybe, maybe struggling with,
try trying to figure, well, okay.
I'll just give an example.
Like, um, having a hard time getting the.
Um, getting everyone on the same page.
(37:52):
Mm-hmm.
Or like, if, if they're a, forexample, a business owner and, um,
and trying to figure out what'sgonna happen with the business.
So, so it doesn't just fallapart if the owner dies.
Um, because like, okay, there's a lot ofbusiness brokers that they'll say, oh,
I'll solve your, I'll solve your problem.
Let's just sell the business.
(38:14):
But, but short of that, some peopledon't wanna sell the business.
Uh, 'cause you know, 'cause theyspent decades building it up, so
maybe it, anyway, um, I, I, I thinkI bring something to the table
to help, help, um, just bridgethe gap in, in those situations.
I'll tell you a quick story.
So I, I helped a family where,uh, it was a business owner and,
(38:36):
uh, they had a, a number of.
Um, a adult children and the onechild just was kind of estranged
and, um, meaning they, they didn'treally have a close relationship.
And there, there was some,there was some history there.
It was actually the oldest, the oldestchild who had, who had gone through, um,
(38:57):
and seen mom and dad struggle financially.
And then the other kids.
Uh, grew up in a differentexperience they had.
Mm-hmm.
They, they, uh, only knewlike life being good.
Yeah.
And so there was adisconnect between the kids.
Like the kids just didn't reallyunderstand each other very well, and
we, we were able to, uh, well, uh, Iwent in, uh, with a partner and we, we
(39:23):
did some, uh, coaching and consultingfor them for about six months.
And, um.
The, the, like, the, the one thing thatthe, that the business owner wanted,
like the two parents, the older parents?
Mm-hmm.
The, the one thing they wanted,they wanted to be able to see
their grandchildren play together.
'cause they had neverplayed together for like.
Five years since there, therehad been this kind of a split.
(39:46):
Yeah.
And like, and we did that and we planneda, a family retreat and it was beautiful.
And like they, they were justcrying because it was, it was
such a, it was, it was so good.
And, and, uh, you know, they, theywere willing to pay any amount of
money just to, just to see their,their children play together.
So that's, that's the kind of thingthat, that I can sometimes help with.
(40:07):
And, and it's really, it's, it's reallybeautiful and moving to see that.
Yeah, like building those familymeetings or, or legacy meetings,
uh, those kind of things.
And you don't have to start, Imean, I, I have a 7-year-old, right?
So I can start 'em now.
Little, but, but, and I only have onekid, so it's gonna be a small, small.
(40:29):
Family gathering.
Yeah.
But, uh, I can imagine bigger ones.
And, and then as we think about,like, again, the Rockefeller method,
uh, how do we best protect and, uh,using life insurance or other kinds of
contracts, how do we best make it equal?
For the, the family that maybeisn't gonna be in the business and
(40:51):
maybe there's some that are right?
Right.
And so how do we best, um,create that equality for them?
Um, and, and that those are thingswhere you need to have maybe a financial
plan and maybe somebody like us workingalongside an attorney or somebody else
that is really thinking about your needs.
(41:14):
Ultimately, and if you're a businessowner, start building these things now.
Don't wait until, alright, now I wannalike sell the business in two years.
Let me start figuring it out.
You should start building those kindof strategies right from the ground up.
Right?
For sure.
Um, and I think that's important.
(41:35):
So let me, let me share my screen.
I wanna, this is your website.
Um.
And just want to bring anything there.
So this is sudden wealth protection.
Yep.
Uh, law, uh, anything you wannabring up or, or share about
this, that, that can help people?
Well, just, uh, okay.
(41:56):
So I'm only an attorney in Arizona.
However, if you have any questions,I mean, I can, I, I, I'm happy
to talk to people and, and, uh,point you in the right direction.
So, yeah, just reach outif you have a question.
Cool.
So estate planning, there'sall kinds of stuff here.
If there's things that I don't know,'cause we have Estate Tax Pro that we use.
(42:16):
Very simple tool, but it's,it's definitely a step.
Sometimes like literally Ihave, uh, clients that I'm like,
dude, uh, I can help you so far.
Uh, I understand the language.
I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one.
Same with tax person.
Uh, I understand a lot about taxes.
Um, however, I'm not that.
And so having those type peopleon your team is important.
(42:41):
And if you're in Arizona,um, reach out to him.
Hey, if you're not inArizona, reach out to him.
Uh, and maybe he can help.
Or have a colleague that he knows.
I'm sure you guys all likehang out together and, uh, I
don't know, what do you do?
Um, but yeah, yeah.
We, I, I, yes, we have, I,I have a network of other
(43:04):
lawyers around the country.
Yeah.
You all hang out inScottsdale or something?
I dunno.
Um.
So, uh, with that, thank,thanks Paul for being here and
being open, uh, on your story.
Uh, I really think this, the reasonI wanted you on is because a lot of
times people think that's not me.
Um, but again, whether you start witha little bit or, um, start with you
(43:29):
being the person that creates thatgenerational wealth and then build it to
where they have a problem, if you will.
Um, and that I'd rather have a problemthat my son, uh, inherits too much.
But I also wanna also makesure that he knows the biggest
inheritance that he's gonna receiveis he knows he's loved by us.
(43:53):
Um, and so that's where I'm gonna lead.
Uh, and I hope that youguys do that as well.
So, thanks Paul for being here, and Ireally appreciate, uh, your time today.
Thank you.
Hey guys, welcome to Wealth WisdomFinancial YouTube channel podcast.
So as you notice, we've been doing alot of interviews and you know that we
love to think with the end in mind, youknow, being profit first certified being
infinite banking certified, we wannathink about, um, what happens in the end.
(00:24):
Like how do we reverse architectthings and so what better.
Way to think about that.
And as the end of life, end ofhow I end things and how we make
sure that everything we had built,kinda like the, the Rockefellers
will go into the right direction.
(00:44):
So today I get tointerview, uh, an attorney.
Uh, yeah.
We're, we're not gonna goall, all attorney language.
Maybe a little bit, but basically, um,this guy Paul, Paul Del Gort, uh, he had
some amazing things happen and you know,he's been doing this stuff for a while.
(01:07):
Right.
He has over 25 years of legal expertise.
Uh, he has a law firm.
All the things to how to simplify probate,and again, I know probate and have to,
had to deal with some of it personally,um, because of family things that
they did not take care of this stuff.
And so we wanna like help youunderstand this so he doesn't just.
(01:29):
Speak about it from his legalexperience, but he also, uh,
inherited, uh, a lot of money andlet him tell the story, uh, that, um,
made him think about this even more.
So, um, I'm not gonna keep goingon about, uh, how amazing Paul is.
I mean, you know, he went toschool for, for being a lawyer,
(01:51):
so he has to be smart, right?
But I wanted to have him on sohe can explain to you why you
might need to talk to somebody.
Like him.
Hey Paul.
Thanks for having us being here.
Um, so good to see you.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit, you areone of those attorneys that, that
(02:12):
people like when they see you on thestreet, they, they look the other way.
I'm one of those attorneys.
Yeah.
Oh, this is starting off good.
So, so tell us, you're,you're an attorney.
Yes.
You, you're, you've been inthis world, you've probably
seen all kinds of crazy stuff.
Um, you, you went toschool to learn all this.
(02:33):
Um, and what happens?
Like what, what, what happens now?
You, you have the knowledge.
Tell us a little bit about howyou end up where you're at today.
Uh, thanks and thanksfor having me on Brandon.
Um, so yeah, I, I went to schooland, um, started practicing law
(02:55):
about 25 years ago, helping people.
Then, uh, I, I moved to Arizonaback, um, around 2002 and, um.
I, I was a partner in a law firm andwe did high end estate planning, estate
planning, and asset protection for mm-hmm.
Primarily for dentists and doctors and,and, uh, business owners, affluent people.
(03:20):
Um, and I had a sense that I,I just needed to get some more.
Some more like in-depth knowledge.
Like it, it, it seemed very academic.
Um, we were meeting with clientsand I was saying, oh, you need this
and you need that and everything.
And it, it seemed like it wascoming from just me having learned
(03:42):
it as opposed to having lived it.
And so I went off on my own and,uh, started a law firm and I, I did,
um, a lot of probate, litigation,probate and trust litigation.
Um.
Sounds exciting.
Yeah.
Well, um, so, so the inter,like, the interesting thing is,
(04:02):
uh, the, there's, uh, oh, thereare a lot of myths in this area.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and one, one of themyths, I, I mean, honestly, it's
a, it's a marketing slogan thatyou need a trust to avoid probate.
And, um, and a, a trust can avoid probatejust like a, a car, like a car with a, um.
(04:27):
An airbag can help you avoidinjury, but it doesn't guarantee it.
And, uh, it, it reallydepends on the situation.
Um, anyway, so I, I got into a lotof different messes and, but I, I
was still pretty cocky, uh, and, andconfident that I knew everything.
And I even wrote anarticle, I, I remember this.
(04:47):
This all happened within about a year.
So I, I, I wrote an article in alocal newspaper about what to do if
you come into, um, sudden Money or.
Like a financial windfall.
And, uh, it, it, and then, um,and I'll give the story very fast.
Um, there you can, Ihave a book on Amazon.
(05:11):
Uh, you can read it if you wannalearn more, but basically I, uh,
I met my biological father forthe first time at the age of 42.
Mm-hmm.
Six weeks later, he was in the hospice.
Um, I went to his home, uh, becauseI, you know, as far as I knew, he,
I, I was his only biological child.
(05:32):
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I went into the home just with,because he, he was not gonna get better.
And with the idea of like, justseeing what, seeing what there
was, trying to, you know, do Ineed to protect something and.
When I walked in, there was a, uh, a, adesk there with a computer and a printer,
(05:54):
and on top of the printer was the,was his, um, let me get this straight.
It was this 2008.
Yeah, 2008, um, federal tax return, andon the bottom of page two, it showed
a $1.8 million, um, passive income.
So I, I, I like, I kind of figured that,okay, he must have some money then.
(06:17):
Um, and it, it, it, and then he,he died a couple days after that.
Um, so for me, and, and then I ended upinheriting, um, o over $28 million of.
Of stock and, uh, I was unprepared.
I didn't know who to trust.
Uh, it, well, I, I mean, now thatsounds funny because I just, I just
(06:38):
wrote an article about what to, whatto do if you come into a windfall, but,
um, there's, um, so there's somethingcalled, um, sudden Wealth Syndrome,
and it, it's a little bit like, um.
Oh, saying that you have inflammation.
Okay.
Yeah.
So the, the word inflammationis not really, uh, descriptive.
(07:02):
Like, you know, is it infl?
You know, do you have an allergy?
Do you have an injury thatyou're not letting heal?
Like what, what's going on?
Um, uh, or you know, do you have somekind of a sickness or, or something.
And sudden wealth syndromeis, is a little bit like that.
It basically describes kindof like overall what happens
to some people who, um.
(07:24):
Who, who just are not psychologicallyor, or mentally prepared to, to
come into a financial windfall.
And, and it, and it's a littlebit complicated, like for me.
Okay.
Uh, oh.
I, I'm sorry, I forgot the punchline.
So, so, um, I, I got this money andthen within about five years, most of
(07:45):
it's gone, like, well, half of it wentto the, um, taxes, estate taxes, yeah.
Yeah.
And then.
Oh, I mean, I was immediately anaccredited investor, and so I,
you know, that's very exciting.
Uh, looking at different, uh, privateequity deals and, and whatnot and, and,
uh, but, but I, I was not trained at,at learning which ones are good and.
(08:09):
Uh, uh, just, uh, uh, spoiler alert,most private equity deals are not good.
Yeah.
So, so anyways, can you saythat, can you say that again?
Most, would you say, yeah.
Most private equity deals are not good.
Like most, you know, there, there'sa reason that bus, there's a
(08:30):
reason that a lot of businesses.
Um, look for investors, it's because theycan't figure out how to grow organically.
Um, now, now there are the, the odd dealswhere they have a great, they have a great
idea and they need an infusion of cash.
Of course, they all say this, they needan infusion of cash in order to grow.
But just, uh, I mean, from my experience,and I'm not an expert at it, well, I,
(08:54):
I, I guess I'm somewhat of an expertat it because I, I lived it, but, um.
But yeah, I mean, most pri privateequity deals, they're, they're, uh,
they're, uh, looking for cash because,you know, their, their expenses are
too high or the, the president, uh, istaking too large of a salary and ha and
has too, too big of a mortgage paymentor, you know, something like that.
(09:17):
Yeah.
So anyway, um.
Yeah, it, so what I've, what Ifound for, for me personally,
um, was I was just not prepared.
Uh, and, and it'sinteresting because, uh, so.
An inheritance is often, well,an inheritance is related to
(09:38):
someone dying, so you have mm-hmm.
You know, you have a loss, whichis generally a negative thing, um,
associated with getting some money,which is generally a positive thing.
Uh, but, but then.
There's all kinds, like, there's allkinds of different associations that
people have, and it depends on theirown, own personal past and mm-hmm.
And, you know, past traumas and,and, uh, how, how well and, and
(10:04):
then how comfortable they arehaving that amount of money.
So for me, for, for me personally, uh,ha having the money was kind of like a.
Um, I, I'll just say it, it feltlike a sick consolation price.
Like I really wanted tohave a father figure.
I didn't want a bunch of money,but here, here's a bunch of money.
(10:26):
And so I, I, I, I justwas not careful with it.
Like, you know, I got this,I, you know, I got the, um.
Oh, what, what do you, uh, you know, the,the second rate prize, which most people
would think, okay, millions of dollars.
Like, what, what are you talking about?
You're crazy.
And, and, and people, it, and thenthe other thing that, that fell
(10:48):
in line with this was because Isuddenly had a whole bunch of money.
I had to be careful who I was talking to.
And most people, most people couldlit, just literally could not.
Um, relate to me like I wastalking about my feelings.
I was talking about,um, the, the anger of.
Um, of being lied to my whole lifeabout who my actual father was and,
(11:12):
and grief and, um, happiness and,and joy at finally meeting him and
then having some money and, and allthese feelings were all intertwined.
And, and, and I, you know, I would tryto tell the average person, and, and all
they heard was, I got a bunch of money.
So anyway, so it's it, but, but thenthe complicated thing is that some
(11:36):
people inherit money or c come into afinancial windfall and they're just fine.
So, um, but, and, and I think it'slike going back to the inflammation
idea, and again, I'm not a doctor, but,um, I, I think it's like, you know.
Some, some people can eat whatever theywant and you know, nothing happens.
But some people, um, eat the typicalAmerican diet and they end up getting,
(12:01):
um, you know, like in intestinalinflammation of the intestines.
Yeah.
All kinds of things.
So you, you mentioned, uh, well,one thing I, I think a lot is if you
don't have a plan for your money,someone else has a plan for it.
So especially if you have a lotof money, uh, coming in, all of
a sudden you're a mark, right?
You're a, you, you now have all yourbest friends that are now needing you.
(12:26):
Or wanting this or this deal or that deal.
And, and a lot of times, and I seethis all the time in the financial
world, is people are lookingfor a way to make more money.
And so they'll, they'll find this,this investing thing, the, as you said,
the deals that there's so many dealsout there, but most of them are crap.
(12:50):
Right.
Um, because if you don't have aplan for your money, someone has a
plan for it, they're gonna use itand, and it's an extraction thing.
Right?
For sure.
For sure.
And also with the tax code and, andwith estate planning and, and all of
that, it's a way to extract as much out.
(13:10):
And if we're, if you'reconfused, you lose.
That's what Donald Miller says, right?
And so, um, especially like, uh, people.
Inherit this money.
They're dealing with mourning and thenthey have 60, 90 days to make decisions.
Uh, did you find that where you had tolike, make fast decisions and you're
(13:31):
like, oh, well I gotta do this now,otherwise it's gonna change in 90 days?
I don't, I don't know.
You're, you're, you'vedealt with this before.
Um,
well, I had that feeling.
It, it's not real.
Like the money wasn't gonna go anywhere.
Like it.
(13:52):
It literally, I, I didn'thave to do anything.
I didn't have to do anything for years.
I mean, okay, I had to pay theestate taxes, but other, other,
other than that, I, I could havejust chilled out, but I, yeah.
Uh, in my, okay, so, and this issomething that probably most people can
cannot relate to, but I'll, I'll tryto, I'll try to bring it around, um,
(14:15):
to make it relate to, um, more people.
But, um, so in my mind I, Ijust paid 50% in estate taxes.
So then like I have that number.
So now I'm trying to figureout, okay, how can I make up
that 50% as fast as possible?
And that got me into the.
The risky, the, the realm ofrisky investments and whatnot.
(14:37):
That's what, that's whatwas going on in my mind.
Um, and so I, I mean, honestly, ifI would've just kept it, yeah, if
I, if I would've just done nothing,I mean the, you know, the stocks
were doing just fine or I could haveconverted it to just mutual funds.
I would've, you know, Madoff just.
Beautifully.
(14:57):
But anyway.
Yeah.
Well, and then, so, so then youwere comparing the, what is that?
It's called sunk cost fallacy.
Yeah.
Yep, yep, yep.
Where, where you were like, oh, butit was this, but, but the reality
is you started with zero, right?
Uh, no money, um, except for what you did.
(15:19):
And then 50 per, evenif it was a hundred or.
A hundred bucks.
That doesn't matter.
A hundred bucks is more than uh, zero.
Right.
Um, but then you're like, well,uh, they took 50% of it, so that's
still $50 is more than zero.
Um, but yeah, we were, we lookand say, well, yeah, but it
(15:42):
could have been a hundred.
Right.
Um, and so whether it's millions or.
You know, a couple hundred thousand ora thousand, still the same thing, right?
So here's the real lesson that I, uh,that I kind of took out of it and,
and I think applies to, um, everyone'sthat if, like, what, what was missing
(16:07):
in, in my situation was context.
Uh, some, like a values or, um.
Meaning like what the moneymeant to my father and what
he would've wanted me to do.
And unfortunately, HHI justthe circumstances, he, he was
(16:28):
never able to tell me this.
It's just, it is kind ofa long story, but mm-hmm.
Um, just the way things worked outand, um, and, and so without that,
I, I was just kind of, I, I mean.
You know, I have a wholebunch of money right now, but
like, without, without a plan.
Again, like you said, like I, um, if youdon't have a plan, you lose, um, and.
(16:52):
And, and it wasn't just, itwasn't just having a willer trust.
'cause the, the willer trustwould've said, I got the, I got the
stocks, or I got the investments.
Okay.
So that, that's not theplan I'm talking about.
The plan I'm talking about is, isis broader and richer than that.
Uh, it, it's the idea of.
(17:14):
Um, like, like for, for itto have a meaning for me.
Yeah.
And, and then, you know, then, then I canvisualize, uh, 'cause it's so important to
be able to visualize what the future is.
And, and, and, and, and for me personally,I was having trouble with that.
And so these, um, shady investment.
(17:35):
People pushers, uh, gave me their vision.
Like, oh, okay, well that sounds great.
I'll invest in, I'll invest in oil wellsin Texas right around the time that
they're discovering oil in North, NorthDakota and the price of oils going down.
That sounds like a great idea.
Yeah.
So, so then as you.
(17:56):
Um, well, let me ask, are,did you have, are you married,
spouse, or anything like that?
Um, not married.
Um, but I, yeah, I have,I, I have two children.
Okay.
So, so it wasn't like anything thatyou're gonna ask, um, your wife,
whoever, uh, what are we gonna do?
Right.
It's, it's between youand, and whatever, right?
(18:16):
So, so if you were to go backand, and let's say, yeah.
Um, well, and I deal withthis all the time, right?
What would you say before you got themoney or before you stepped into this and
you, you've done the, the lawyer thing,you've, you've made decent money, but
(18:39):
what is something you would have said, Iwish somebody would've done this for me.
Not about the money, but about, uh,other parts in our heart and mind
that would've helped you be prepared.
The, there's a simple answer and then amore complex, uh, more accurate answer.
The, the simple answer isjust don't do anything.
(19:02):
And I, I, yeah, no one, no onereally clearly told me that or no.
Anyway, um, the more complex thing, Imean, it actually gets really complex.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because it.
Um, and so this is, well, we're now 15years, um, after the fact, and I'm still,
(19:24):
I'm still kind of processing mm-hmm.
What actually went on.
Um, and honestly what wenton it, it has to do with, uh,
unprocessed childhood trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and just in like, in my own life,it, it, uh, it had to do with my, um.
Well, uh, my mom and relatives, um.
(19:48):
Keeping from me, um, uh,who my real father was.
And then, uh, and, and I, like I, Iwent, I went balls to the wall, uh,
in terms of my, my stepfather's, um,Irish heritage, and I learned bagpipes.
I, I actually even competed in the worldchampionship and bagpipes, um mm-hmm.
(20:09):
In, in Ireland.
Uh, and he was veryproud and all this stuff.
And, and then, then hedied and then, you know.
Come to find out, well, I'mactually not even Irish.
And so like, that, that was, thatwas kind of a kick to the stomach.
Yeah.
Like, and uh, so I, I felt like Iwas, and I, I still a little bit feel
(20:29):
like I'm floundering around and it,it's, it's interesting 'cause the, um.
This, this part of it just, it, it takes along time for people to heal from, and I,
I, I honestly think most people never healfrom, you know, you know, from that kind
of thing, or childhood wounds or whatever.
And we, we end up just kind of doing thebest we can with, I don't know, drinking
(20:54):
or smoking pot or something like that.
Um, and I. I, I have, well, I'venever done the pop thing, but
I, what I'm saying is that, uh,that's, that's a common thing.
It's very, very, very common nowand, and especially with the families
not being as close as, as yeah.
Um, you know, as they used tobe historically and everything.
(21:16):
So, um.
So, so this brings into something I'vebeen, and we've literally been thinking
about this, uh, a ton, uh, in our, um, we,we call it your financial nervous system.
And, you know, we have our nervoussystem and we have traumas that
(21:37):
affect what we do financially.
Right.
Uh, so there's certain traumas,different things that happen that
move in, in, in our decisions, right?
And so, so having healing andthat maybe personal healing will,
will help to figure out what, howwe flow our, our money, right?
(22:02):
If we have other things, uh,we could say, well, we have.
Issues, mom issues, allthe other fun stuff.
Um, but, but really it's, it's takingagency and ownership of the trauma.
Right.
That, that happens.
Um, and so I'm, I'm hearing like,yeah, there was trauma, there's things
that happened, but how would you saysomebody think about both the, their
(22:27):
personal trauma and their financial,how do those intersect for you?
Oh, well, um.
I mean, o overcoming trauma, that'sa, that's something that I'm still, I,
I'm still learning myself, honestly.
Yeah.
Um, I, I've gone farenough to realize that you.
You can't think your way out of it.
(22:47):
Like, it, it is, it, there's no,there's no thinking solution to it.
It, it's a, it's actually a, a somatic,like it's actually in the body.
Like literally, literally the, youknow, the book, the Body Keeps the score
kind of talks about this, like, it's,it's, it's literally a physical thing.
So, so what I've been doing, and thissounds ridiculous, but here, here you go.
(23:09):
Um, I have.
I've kind of, uh, well, I had, oh, okay.
So I had, um, two main wounds.
Uh, that I remember as a childand, and have, have kind of
kept coming up and up for me.
Uh, one was, uh, and this is painfulfor me to even, um, tell, but,
(23:30):
and I've never shared this on theinternet before, so here we go.
Mm-hmm.
So one was, I, there was somethinglike, and I, I can't even remember what
age I was, maybe eight or something.
And, uh.
I, I think I maybe didn't get a, a goodenough grade in school or something.
Like my mom was always pushing, pushingme to get A's, and, and I think I
(23:54):
didn't and, or something like that.
I don't know.
I, anyway, I, so, so I neverlearned the lesson, but the lesson
I did learn is I went to my room.
I closed the door and I told myselfover and over, I'm stupid, I'm
stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid.
And to this day, like that,just, that just ingrained in me.
(24:14):
So, and I'll come back aroundto how I'm fixing that.
Okay.
So that was one serious wound.
Um, and then, oh, what was the other, oh.
Well, the other, I, I guess the otherone was something that just kind of
slipped in there and it, it, it wasa general sense of shame as a child.
(24:35):
Uh, and it like, just thissense of not belonging.
And, and I realize now that what itwas, it, it was like little whispers
when we went to, um, Laure familyreunions and, and, uh, the Laure
relatives would like, say, say something.
Behind my back, but I, I wouldstill hear something like, you
(24:55):
know, well he's not a real laury.
Like, what, what are you talking about?
And so just kind of this and what, andis true I, I. I technically and really
was not a, an actual di I was neveradopted, you know, not biologically, but,
but I was raised to believe that I was.
So, anyway, so it was just confusingto me fast forward now decades and the,
(25:19):
the way I'm doing it kind of, uh, and,and again, it's a silly thing, but, um,
so like I, uh, I, I do a cold showerin the morning and I, and I have my
own mantra trying to just undo that.
So, um, I. Uh, I'm smart,lucky and unashamed.
I'm smart, lucky and unashamed,and I just say that over and over
(25:39):
and it's, you know, it's graduallylike, it's gradually, um, uh.
H help helping me un undo the, uh,you know, undo the physical effects
of, of that, you know, kind, kindof to your point of the, um, the
financial, what, what did you call it?
Financial traumas or Oh, yeah.
Financial nervous system.
(26:00):
Nervous system.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, so, um, I, I believe like inour, even our financial world,
we have greed and fear index.
Um, we on CNN, right?
That's what it's, 'cause that's, if it's.
Fearful or greedy.
And, and so that's how themarket is built, right?
Um, and so then we deal with trauma.
(26:21):
Don't touch, don't look at it ifit goes down or don't look at it.
If it goes up, like all those kind ofthings that they didn't mean it, you know,
if 2008 happens, it'll, it'll bounce back.
And I'm like.
That sounds like an abusive relationship.
Um, and, and so we are conditionedfor abusive relationships.
We're conditioned for that.
(26:43):
And, and so whenever I ask, and I, andwe, we are working on a financial, um.
Uh, nervous system, archetyped to knowwhere we're land on this kind of thing.
And, and so we, we've created a, a newtool, not released yet, but it'll be
released when this podcast release.
So go check, click on the links and,and get your financial archetype.
(27:07):
But, um, in those financial,financial archetypes, a lot of
times it comes from our wounds.
Our wounds impact our kindof personalities, right?
And so that's something we'vebeen thinking about a lot.
And as I go through doing a financialanalysis, I, I'm an infinite banking
practitioner, um, and I help on some ofthat, on estate planning and all of that.
(27:34):
But a lot of times people look atthis and they say, oh, well I want
this, this thing, and it's the fruit.
Right.
Uh, a high cash value lifeinsurance policy that's doing its
thing, that's the product of, ofa, a tree that has been growing.
Right?
And I use Profit first and all of that.
(27:56):
But what you mentioned was, and, and wehave a, a system we call the still method.
Right.
Setting your sights, tracking, inspecting,looking for 1%, and living deliberately.
What that is, is your root system.
And a lot of times people'sroots are unhealthy, right?
They, they don't know what theywant because they never ask
(28:18):
themselves what they want, right?
Um, they let, um, uncle Steve, whodidn't have anything, tell them what
they want, even though Steve's dead.
Right?
Um.
And so have you seen, seen that, andI'm sure in this you're dealing with
a lot of psych psychology therapy,even when you're, you're working with
(28:39):
people, they all of a sudden have wealthor, uh, they don't have wealth, but
they need, uh, to, to do some things.
How have you become atherapist, if you will?
In your line of work now, and you'reright, I deal with this all the time.
I mean, I think, do you, do youbecome like a clinic, like a, almost
(28:59):
like a doctor, like you're thedoctor in the lawyer space, right.
You know, with, with that,but, but you probably sense
there's other things happening.
How do you navigate that?
Yeah, so, so there's a. Um, a, aphrase I guess that that attorneys have
historically referred to themselves is,is his attorney and counselor at law.
(29:24):
And I used to be like, for along time I was confused about
the whole counselor part.
Like, well, I can tell you what thelaw is, but I didn't have a clue
'cause I didn't have a clue myself.
So how mm-hmm.
How could I help other people?
But I, what I found is, as I, as I am.
Figuring things out myself, I'mbetter able to help other people
and kind of see, help them seethe big picture and and whatnot.
(29:46):
Um, and it's.
Well, it, it, I, I guess I just havemore perspective now and mm-hmm.
Giving, I think helping peoplesee the perspective is, is
healing and, and helpful.
So, um, yeah, and, and just like ina nutshell, the way I see things,
and I've, I've always seen, I'vealways had this idea, but, um, it's,
(30:09):
it's getting more clear to me now.
It's that, um, o okay, so like society.
Um, has, has different, um, oh, how,how do I say it there, there's different
layers that, that help organize a society.
Yeah.
So first of all, you have, um,aspirations like, uh, back in the fifties,
(30:34):
six, well, fifties and whatnot, youknow, we had Superman and, and yeah.
Uh, you know.
Uh, po uh, what, uh, presidentsthat we looked up to and, and
just like leaders and, and we weremore religious as a people and,
and so like, he had aspirations,okay, you, we wanna be like this.
Then, um, underneath that was justcommonly understood values like
(30:57):
mores, it's, it's called, yeah.
Um.
You know, be trustworthy,keep your promises, um mm-hmm.
That kind of thing.
And then underneath that was the law.
The law.
And the law was just a, or is the safetynet that, that like, you know, if, if all
that other stuff somehow doesn't work,then we still have the law and the issue.
(31:19):
The issue now is that.
Um, we're relying a hundred percent onthe law, and, and we don't, we don't
have these common commonly acceptedvalues and aspirations and, and whatnot.
And so what's, what's needed?
Well, within the family, like, youknow, for, for people you work with and,
(31:42):
and me too is, um, helping them maybe.
C come to some commonly understood valuesthat they want to retain in the family
and pass on to the next generation.
And that's, that's over and above havinga, a will document or something like that.
Yeah.
Um, and, and trying to resolvethings, if at all possible.
(32:03):
Trying to re resolve things out of court.
Um, be because, and, and thengo to court as the last resort.
I mean, we certainly do that.
We do it a lot.
Um, but I think, yeah, there'sjust, there's not as much
communication that goes on now.
You know, like we, we all used to,uh, live in farming villages and we
(32:24):
all saw each other and, you know,we all got together for, for, uh.
Uh, Sunday, Sunday lunch, youknow, after church or whatever.
And, uh, you knew your neighbor.
So we're not doing that as much neighbor.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So.
Well, and, and as I wrote our book, it'scalled, uh, five Smooth Stones Here, and
this book that we wrote, uh, if you'd seeit, uh, it's a, it's a financial money.
(32:49):
Uh, and the reason we wrote itand it, it should say, um, still
method or something like that.
And I mentioned the still method, butwe wrote it for my son who's now seven.
Uh, we wrote it three years ago.
Uh, and it was kind of our ideas ofhow the financial system works and, and
all of that and how to organize money.
(33:09):
And a couple things that I think aboutas, as you guys are listening if you have
families, is we have a couple mantras.
One of our mantras, uh, in our family wascommunicate, communicate, communicate.
Right?
Uh, that's the number one.
You'll solve a lot of thingsif you actually communicate.
Um, the other thing, and my, myson's seven is Neely's show up.
(33:33):
Neely's do show up.
We, we do volunteering, we do allthat stuff and we show up if we say
we're gonna do something, we do.
I love that.
And Neely's do hard things.
Um, and so trying toteach 'em those mantras.
We do hard things, whether we havemoney or not, it doesn't matter.
We're still gonna do hard things.
(33:53):
Um, and, and he's gonna inherit a lotof money because I understand the,
the how law works and how contractswork, because I do life insurance,
it is the base of everything.
And so by having those lifeinsurance policies in place,
I know he's an only son, he'sgonna inherit a ton of money now.
(34:15):
On the other side, uh, I'm likeyou, I I did, I grew up without
a dad, not around in the picture.
Uh, my mom was married six or seventimes, so I got, had seven stepdads
and they have no money on that side.
I can create something differentand you guys, as the listeners can
create something different, learnedfrom our stories and, and sometimes
(34:37):
our pain is our biggest strength.
Uh, Paul's pain is probably nowhis biggest strength, right?
Where.
Learning that it and helpedin the, the broader story.
But you don't have to go throughpain to learn, in my opinion.
Right.
You can listen to this podcast and say,okay, uh, I don't have to not know my
(35:00):
dad for most of my life and then inherita lot of money I could learn from Paul.
Right?
Um, and then do the right things.
'cause I have family members that have.
I'm literally going through this stuff andI'm, I'm picking him up from jail and all
kinds of crazy stuff that I'm like, Hmm,this is crazy when, when this happens.
(35:20):
And this isn't just Paul's familyor my family, it's your family too.
Um, all of us have this, and if weunderstand and begin with the end of mind.
Be thinking about that.
Um, that's an important thing.
So your website, sudden WealthProtection Law, is this just
for the uber, uber wealthy?
(35:43):
Like, like what's No, what,what are we looking at?
Who's your best client?
Oh, my best.
Well, well, primarily what wedo, it's, it's a combination of.
Um, probate and trust litigation,actually, that's like, that's
our bread and butter, honestly.
Uh, just helping people through,you know, pick up the pieces
when when things go, go to.
(36:05):
Hell, I guess, or, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh, and then doing proactiveplanning is, is the other thing.
So no, it has nothing to do withlottery, lottery winners or whatever,
but just good proactive planning.
And I, I loved whatyou were talking about.
You're talking about, um, the FamilyCode of honor, and I wrote, I wrote about
that in my book, um, lasting Wealth.
(36:27):
But yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Like having, having somecore values is so important.
Yeah.
And he knows it.
Um, also, he knows no phones at thedinner table, even though I have
the phone and a lot of times, andhe calls me out, um, which is fine.
Um, and it's, it's ki I'vealso learned not to listen to
(36:49):
the, the really intense books.
Like 10 X is easier thantwo x. I listened that one.
And he is like, you're doing two x stuff.
And I'm like.
Come on now.
Oh, stop.
Stop that.
Um, you're, you're annoying me now, kid.
Um, but, but when is, when would it betime for somebody to reach out to you?
(37:09):
Like if they, uh, they're listening here.
When is the time that they say, I need toreach out to Paul, or somebody like Paul?
Uh, now when did, when should they start?
Well.
Well, because I, I, I'm an attorneyonly in Arizona, so I, I can't practice
(37:31):
law in other states, but, but one thingI could do is, is provide coaching
or consulting for, like, for a familythat is maybe, maybe struggling with,
try trying to figure, well, okay.
I'll just give an example.
Like, um, having a hard time getting the.
Um, getting everyone on the same page.
(37:52):
Mm-hmm.
Or like, if, if they're a, forexample, a business owner and, um,
and trying to figure out what'sgonna happen with the business.
So, so it doesn't just fallapart if the owner dies.
Um, because like, okay, there's a lot ofbusiness brokers that they'll say, oh,
I'll solve your, I'll solve your problem.
Let's just sell the business.
(38:14):
But, but short of that, some peopledon't wanna sell the business.
Uh, 'cause you know, 'cause theyspent decades building it up, so
maybe it, anyway, um, I, I, I thinkI bring something to the table
to help, help, um, just bridgethe gap in, in those situations.
I'll tell you a quick story.
So I, I helped a family where,uh, it was a business owner and,
(38:36):
uh, they had a, a number of.
Um, a adult children and the onechild just was kind of estranged
and, um, meaning they, they didn'treally have a close relationship.
And there, there was some,there was some history there.
It was actually the oldest, the oldestchild who had, who had gone through, um,
(38:57):
and seen mom and dad struggle financially.
And then the other kids.
Uh, grew up in a differentexperience they had.
Mm-hmm.
They, they, uh, only knewlike life being good.
Yeah.
And so there was adisconnect between the kids.
Like the kids just didn't reallyunderstand each other very well, and
we, we were able to, uh, well, uh, Iwent in, uh, with a partner and we, we
(39:23):
did some, uh, coaching and consultingfor them for about six months.
And, um.
The, the, like, the, the one thing thatthe, that the business owner wanted,
like the two parents, the older parents?
Mm-hmm.
The, the one thing they wanted,they wanted to be able to see
their grandchildren play together.
'cause they had neverplayed together for like.
Five years since there, therehad been this kind of a split.
(39:46):
Yeah.
And like, and we did that and we planneda, a family retreat and it was beautiful.
And like they, they were justcrying because it was, it was
such a, it was, it was so good.
And, and, uh, you know, they, theywere willing to pay any amount of
money just to, just to see their,their children play together.
So that's, that's the kind of thingthat, that I can sometimes help with.
(40:07):
And, and it's really, it's, it's reallybeautiful and moving to see that.
Yeah, like building those familymeetings or, or legacy meetings,
uh, those kind of things.
And you don't have to start, Imean, I, I have a 7-year-old, right?
So I can start 'em now.
Little, but, but, and I only have onekid, so it's gonna be a small, small.
(40:29):
Family gathering.
Yeah.
But, uh, I can imagine bigger ones.
And, and then as we think about,like, again, the Rockefeller method,
uh, how do we best protect and, uh,using life insurance or other kinds of
contracts, how do we best make it equal?
For the, the family that maybeisn't gonna be in the business and
(40:51):
maybe there's some that are right?
Right.
And so how do we best, um,create that equality for them?
Um, and, and that those are thingswhere you need to have maybe a financial
plan and maybe somebody like us workingalongside an attorney or somebody else
that is really thinking about your needs.
(41:14):
Ultimately, and if you're a businessowner, start building these things now.
Don't wait until, alright, now I wannalike sell the business in two years.
Let me start figuring it out.
You should start building those kindof strategies right from the ground up.
Right?
For sure.
Um, and I think that's important.
(41:35):
So let me, let me share my screen.
I wanna, this is your website.
Um.
And just want to bring anything there.
So this is sudden wealth protection.
Yep.
Uh, law, uh, anything you wannabring up or, or share about
this, that, that can help people?
Well, just, uh, okay.
(41:56):
So I'm only an attorney in Arizona.
However, if you have any questions,I mean, I can, I, I, I'm happy
to talk to people and, and, uh,point you in the right direction.
So, yeah, just reach outif you have a question.
Cool.
So estate planning, there'sall kinds of stuff here.
If there's things that I don't know,'cause we have Estate Tax Pro that we use.
(42:16):
Very simple tool, but it's,it's definitely a step.
Sometimes like literally Ihave, uh, clients that I'm like,
dude, uh, I can help you so far.
Uh, I understand the language.
I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one.
Same with tax person.
Uh, I understand a lot about taxes.
Um, however, I'm not that.
And so having those type peopleon your team is important.
(42:41):
And if you're in Arizona,um, reach out to him.
Hey, if you're not inArizona, reach out to him.
Uh, and maybe he can help.
Or have a colleague that he knows.
I'm sure you guys all likehang out together and, uh, I
don't know, what do you do?
Um, but yeah, yeah.
We, I, I, yes, we have, I,I have a network of other
(43:04):
lawyers around the country.
Yeah.
You all hang out inScottsdale or something?
I dunno.
Um.
So, uh, with that, thank,thanks Paul for being here and
being open, uh, on your story.
Uh, I really think this, the reasonI wanted you on is because a lot of
times people think that's not me.
Um, but again, whether you start witha little bit or, um, start with you
(43:29):
being the person that creates thatgenerational wealth and then build it to
where they have a problem, if you will.
Um, and that I'd rather have a problemthat my son, uh, inherits too much.
But I also wanna also makesure that he knows the biggest
inheritance that he's gonna receiveis he knows he's loved by us.
(43:53):
Um, and so that's where I'm gonna lead.
Uh, and I hope that youguys do that as well.
So, thanks Paul for being here, and Ireally appreciate, uh, your time today.
Thank you.
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