Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hey guys, welcome to Wealth WisdomFinancial podcast, YouTube channel.
Uh, I don't know where we, whatever we do.
Uh, as you know, we do a lot of deepdives in our head and thinking before we
get to our wallets, uh, we, we talk aboutmindset a whole lot, uh, because mindset
is how we figure out our finances, right?
(00:25):
And it's not just the tacticsof what policy to use or what.
Uh, other things that we wanna accomplish,but it, it starts with what happens
both in your heart and in your head.
And as you grow, you wantto, uh, impact more people.
Right?
And so, um, today I get to, uh,interview somebody that has helped us.
(00:50):
Um, and he's, uh, not only beenin the church world back in
the day, um, his name is Carl.
Uh.
Now I'm gonna say it wrong.
Uh, Libba.
Now I said it, I think, I don't know.
It's, everybody saysit different probably.
But, uh, Carl, uh, he is a,uh, asks a lot of questions.
(01:13):
That's what we do inour financial analysis.
Oftentimes when, when I do myfinancial analysis with people,
they say, that's a great question.
Tell, uh, and often it's just,what's your dreams and goals?
And, and anyway, uh, but he asks Super.
Powerful questions, especiallywhen it, uh, comes to the most
important skill that we all need.
(01:34):
And that's people.
Uh, there are people, um, Idon't know if you know this,
but there's people in your life.
People in my life, uh, and we get to rubshoulders with them all the time, uh, and.
Understanding how peoplework is important.
Um, he's a founder of Curiosity Coach,where he helps leaders, teams, and entire
(01:55):
companies improve how they communicate,collaborate, and grow together.
From scaling startups to startingglobal brands like uh, lulu.
Lemon.
Carl has helped organize, turnsoft skills into serious results.
Um, and he has a playbookand some other things.
Um, and that I'll showyou here in a little bit.
(02:16):
But let's join, have Carl jump in.
Let's talk about the people businessand his whole thing of communicate.
Hey Carl, welcome.
It's great to finallyhave you on the show.
I know we've been talking aboutthis for, I dunno, a while.
Yeah, man.
It's great to be on.
Thanks for the invite.
Yeah, so tell me, how did you get into.
(02:40):
The people business.
I mean, literally you, you're,you're in the people business.
Have you always been the people business?
Um, is there somethingelse you did before?
Yeah, I, I guess I would jokinglysay we're all in the people business.
'cause anything you dohas is people first.
Even if you're building widgets on afactory, uh, floor, um, there are other
people on the assembly line with you.
(03:02):
And so you're always doing workwith the, uh, people, for people.
Um.
But my background honestly, uh, firststarted off as a touring musician,
so I did that in my twenties.
And then I was, uh, leading people,um, inside organizations, uh, in my
late twenties and early thirties.
And then really further last.
I'm 44 now.
Uh, so really for about the last 15years, it's been around how do I grow
(03:26):
and develop people and their softskills and their emotional intelligence.
And then I've owned my ownconsulting agency for the last
five years called Curiosity.
So the whole career has always beenaround people, but very specifically now
in the last five years, having somethingthat's completely my own, where I go in
and I help, you know, people with that.
Um, the, our, our term forthis is with their people.
(03:48):
Because, gotcha.
Yeah.
It's hard and it's messy and it'sdifficult, but it's also wonderful and
exhilarating and necessary and creative.
And so our, our desire is really, we'rehere to help raise people's emotional
intelligence and their ability todo the soft skills and to enjoy each
other while they do work with doing.
That's awesome.
And I think I said your name wrong.
(04:10):
Uh, I always say it wrong.
Oh, listen, like you, you joked aboutthere's no, uh, one way to say it
because it's in a different language.
Me being from South Africa, it's inAfrikaans, and so it's pronounced
Liba Carl, L-I-B-B-A, Carl Libba.
Oh, yeah.
See, there you go.
I totally, I was like, Isay it, I said it wrong.
I knew.
No, I think you were, Ithink you were pretty close.
You got closer the most.
(04:30):
And then I was doubting myself.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when I saw the pronunciation there.
No, you're, I was like, Ithink, anyway, um, yeah.
So you've worked with us.
One of the things I, I think, andI've been church planter, we've been,
we've run a couple businesses, uh, andI, I feel like I'm pretty intuitive,
(04:51):
um, as, as being in this business.
But, um, in the earlyyears of our marriage.
Early years of our marriage, wehad this rule number one rule.
And in our business, uh, and in ourlife and, and even now, the number
one rule, do you know what it is?
(05:11):
I don't.
I'm, I'm very, very curious to findout what your number one rule is.
Number one, rule number one iscommunicate, communicate, communicate.
Mm-hmm.
And if you communicate, and we sayit three times because you might
have said it and then you said it.
Wrong.
And oftentimes it's miscommunication.
(05:31):
It is, I thought I saidthis or I didn't say this.
So I would say that's what you help.
You're a communicator,helping people communicate.
Do you see that as a challengethat you deal with in most teams?
People in is they don'thave that number one rule.
Uh, I think it's, yeah, I, I,I don't think the rule is given
(05:52):
its priority as you've stated,uh, in that number one space.
I think there's also a confusionthat communication isn't key.
Comprehension is, mm-hmm.
So just because you think you'vesaid something, the latest numbers
show us that it takes about 13times communicating something.
Until somebody else understands it,to the degree that you want them to.
(06:12):
So this is true in our marriage,it's true on our teams.
It's true if you're running a businessand you're trying to communicate to a
prospective client as to the problem yousolve and the way that you can help them.
And so it's this lifelong curiosityof, well, what are they hearing?
Mm-hmm.
Or are they in a space to receive this?
Or is this genuinely helpful to them?
All of these things are criticalfor the comprehension part because.
(06:37):
Communicating on its own can leaveyou a little bit self-righteous.
Well, I said it, I told you what I needed.
I told you what was, but if, if we aren'tin that curious, compassionate space to
go, yeah, but is this something they need?
Is, are they in a space to hear it?
Am I communicating it enough differentways that it's increasing the
possibility of them comprehending it?
Um, it's the marriage ofcommunication and comprehension.
(06:59):
I think that is critical.
And then, uh, as you're thinkingabout that is, um, that whole idea,
your, your thing is curiosity.
Mm-hmm.
Um, how is, um, as, as I dofinancial analysis, I ask, you know,
what are your dreams and goals?
And they say, that's a great question.
Uh, I'm just, just curious,why do you put 12% in your
(07:21):
401k when they only match four?
Um, those are some that I just.
And they're like, that'sa great, great question.
I don't know.
Um, so how did curiosity come into playfor, for you and, and how can we be
more curious and at the same time, notjust with others, but with ourselves?
(07:43):
Uh, that's a beautiful end ofthe question there, Brandon.
So I think curiosity has three places.
First, it's internal.
Then it's local, then it's global.
So internal is how can you getcurious about the things that, the
things that you need in the world.
Um, so re really, let me restate that.
The internal space is how do I getcurious about what it is that I need?
(08:05):
Mm-hmm.
Then it's getting curious about locally,what do my partner, my kids, my friends,
the people closest to me, my teamat the company, what do they need?
And then lastly.
What does the entire organization, orthe community, or the world need and
developing that muscle of curiositywe think is so important because.
(08:27):
I think the world needs betterquestions, not simpler answers.
Mm-hmm.
Because what happens is the moreyou age, the more you think, you
know, the more power you accumulate,the less curious people become.
And it's a, you know, it's a real tragedy.
It's it age and, and experience,if used properly should engineer
more and more curiosity.
(08:47):
'cause we know from the, the healthiestolder people that you know, they'll
go, oh, I know less now than I didbefore and I'm only more curious.
I'm only more interested in the world.
And so for me, um, we've, we've builtthe entire company around This is helping
leaders learn how to ask better questions.
I'll give you an example of this.
So if you go to a networking event,what's typically one of the first
(09:10):
questions that you ask somebodygeographically you go, where are you?
From?
From.
Yep.
And unless they have an avery interesting answer.
Answer, now I get to cheat.
I live in the us.
I'm from South Africa.
So if I go, oh, I'm from SouthAfrica, the, I either will tell me
about their desire to go there orthat they've been there, or that
they've wanted to go on safari.
(09:30):
But for most people, if they're like,oh, I'm from Bentonville, Arkansas.
Unless you're going, oh, that'sthe headquarters of Walmart.
That's particularly interesting to me.
Most people are going, it camein one ear and out the other.
Mm-hmm.
And so it is a fine question.
It is not a good or a great question.
A better question for your next networkingevent would be like, Hey, what's your
(09:51):
favorite thing about where you're from?
I just went from something thatis geographic and statistical to
something that is story driven.
Now I'll mm-hmm.
I'll typically, the, the response that Iget is the same one you got when you're
asking your 4 0 1 que, 401k questions.
It's like, oh, that's really interesting.
And then it pauses and they have to kindof collect themselves, which by the way
(10:13):
is always the sign of a good question.
If somebody has to think aboutit, it means the question is big
enough that they can kind of go ona quest, which is the root wood.
In question.
Mm-hmm.
Quest.
So they've now gone on a questto like, oh, discover, what's the
thing that you're engaging them on?
And the more and more we do that, themore connected we are, and the more
likely are we are to lean into eachother as opposed to leaning away from
(10:35):
each other, which is, you know, theprimary part of my work is inside the
workplace, inside teams and companies,executive teams, and middle management.
What I'm engineering all the time isyou're frustrated because you're not
getting what you need, and so youlean away from your teammates or you
lean away from a problem as opposedto if we can get curious, it'll
cause you to have the courage and thecreativity to lean into a problem.
(10:58):
That's awesome.
One of the things I heard too is, um,as we, as, as people have listened to
our podcast and know us, um, one of ourprinciples and is our former business'
overflow and the principle of overflowis your connection to a higher power,
something deep, and then that'll flowinto your, um, your, you, your friends
(11:23):
and family, your community and the world.
Right.
And as businesses go, uh, well, ifI'm not right here personally, uh,
I can't flow to my family mm-hmm.
Then that stops up to the, my,my team and then the world.
And so that's kind ofwhat you had mentioned.
And as a, as a business owner, wecan't sell more widgets if we're
broken on the inside somewhere.
(11:45):
Right.
Um, whatever that is.
And so the overflow principleis something that, um, I've
thought about a lot in that.
I used to use it to sell coffee.
This is our old coffee shop actually.
Yay.
Um, and I used that, that ideaand the widget was coffee.
I had a team mm-hmm.
Of people that helped me do that.
(12:06):
I still have this kind of thing, overflowprinciple, but it's with finance.
Mm-hmm.
It's with money and what's lifeinsurance and, and all the things.
But asking good questions is, is the.
The underlying thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I love the quest in questioningbecause that's what we call our
(12:26):
things in our community is Quest.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't even know that.
Um, and, and so that wassomething I was thinking about.
Now let I asking you aboutthis from a faith perspective.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, one of my friends saysthat he has Renaissance time.
Hmm.
Um, and, and so they spenda lot of time reading.
(12:46):
Old, old books and having sometime thinking, thinking time.
Um, how often would you say isimportant for you to have that kind
of time to ask yourself questions to.
Reflecting personally?
Well, it's a very good question and Iget to cheat, uh, when it comes to this.
(13:10):
So I would say my answer to thiswill be descriptive of my experience,
not prescriptive to anybody else.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So my father passed away my senior yearof high school and I was really young, uh,
for, or senior, I was 16 when I graduated.
And so I decided to take some timeoff and go back to South Africa
because I didn't really know my familythere anymore, the extended family.
(13:33):
And so when people hear that, they go, oh,you went on, like, you know, an Australian
walkabout is what the Aussies call it.
And then, or a gap yearfor most Europeans.
And how exciting must that have been?
You went through Cape Town and.
Port Elizabeth and Johannesburg, and youwent to the Kruger and up to Zimbabwe.
I spent nine months couch surfing.
Some of the most bored I've ever been inmy entire life because what happened, like
(13:57):
I've got a year off, but everybody elsehas to go to school and to work, and so
I'm spending six and seven hours a dayby myself waiting for people to come home
from work or from school, and during thatperiod of my life, from then 17 to 18.
I just got really comfortable andenjoyed the state of my own company
(14:17):
and so for me that really formativeexperience has created now a desire
to both extrovert 'cause I naturallyenjoy people and get energy from them,
but I also deeply enjoy my own company.
And so, um, for me it's almost likea, it's a daily, you know, habit.
I'm not one of those people who,uh, I, I have lots of respect and
(14:38):
maybe a little bit of envy for earlyrisers who get up at five o'clock
and they're already wide awake.
I, I think 10 years of being aprofessional musician, I'm still
slightly more, uh, you know, awake at1:00 AM than I am at, you know, 5:00 AM.
Um, and so I just find mine isweaving it into the day in ways
where it doesn't have to be an hourlong sabbatical, where I'm reading
(15:00):
the classics and getting quiet time.
It's going, oh, when I get inthe car to go to my next meeting.
Mm-hmm.
Now at one o'clock I just.
I won't have the, the radio on.
I'll have the windows down andit's just a little bit of quiet,
reflective, enjoy my own company,ask a question, what am I processing?
What's coming up for me?
And so those have become daily attitudes.
And one of the things I learned really,uh, was fortunate enough to come across
(15:22):
really early in my spiritual formationas well, is that I. Neurologically,
emotionally and spiritually, you're wiredto work from rest, not rest from work.
And in the, you know, Christiantradition, we see this, right?
I mean, Eden was givenfirst then the work.
So rest was given.
Sabbath was given first, andthen you worked after that.
But also my brother's afunctional neurologist and so.
(15:44):
I get to, you know, uh, steal a lot ofhis wisdom and his clinical knowledge.
And he goes, no, like the humanbiology is designed that way.
It's designed to rest first,create cellular development and
then strain, and then rest again,and then work from that strain.
And so I think for people, I.That's a really good exercise to
go before I go into a meeting,before I go into a season of strain.
(16:06):
What does it look like to recover,uh, or not even, sorry, recovery
comes later, but what does it looklike to rest first and yeah, rest?
Yeah.
I, again, as I, I, I think aboutwe're on this treadmill running.
All the time.
And, and then we have these, these greatthings, uh, that are amazing technology
(16:27):
devices that ding all the time and wedon't know how to disconnect from them.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my wife is, is one of thosepeople that gets up at five in
the morning and does all kinds ofthinking time and so impressive.
And I'm like, man, that's amazing.
And she's like, when are you gonna do it?
I'm like, um, uh, I, I'm trying Heaven.
Heaven.
Maybe.
Yeah, maybe on the other side of eternity.
(16:47):
Uh, but it's probably nothappening on this side.
I'm, I'm working on it.
Uh, and that's something where aswe've been learning is, is putting
those, um, and I, I think about thisas time and, and those big rocks
and then the, the, um, other things.
And so that, that.
Putting yourself first.
(17:08):
Having that time, whether it's 20minutes in the car or, or an hour
in the morning doesn't matter, butmaking sure those things are in place.
Mm-hmm.
And then you put the other things, teamsand all that in there because if you
have that time to reflect and ask, whyam I feeling this way about this person?
Um, that might help you go intothat meeting a little healthier.
(17:33):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
You, yeah.
To use your word overflow.
You, you can't pour cleanwater out of a dirty cup.
Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, and that's why I loved workingwith you, uh, on some of this.
And, and just thinking about that and aswe build healthy teams, um, now what have
you seen the pitfalls, like as far as.
(17:53):
You know, we've been working withpeople, we've, we've seen that.
Um, what has been some of the thingsthat you're like, oh, there it is again.
I feel like I, I deal slayed this dragon.
And it, it just shows up that you justsee every time that it's obvious to you,
not obvious to the rest of the world.
(18:15):
Yeah.
So unfortunately I'd like to tellyou that there is one, but there's
not, in our experience, there'sseven, seven, you know, I like the
idea of Seven Dragons to go and slayon your quest for better questions.
That could be the next book.
Um, but the ones that we willdeal with fairly immediately
are, um, purpose alignment.
Mm-hmm.
So the, the whole team doesn'tunderstand the problem that
(18:37):
the company's trying to solve.
So they're all solving for different.
Problems.
And so then that's where they get burnout.
'cause they don't knowwhy their work matters.
Yeah.
The second, uh, problemwould be expectation setting.
So, okay, maybe we've gotten on thesame page with the problem, but we don't
know who's supposed to do what and whenwe don't have that clarified, you'll
have four stages of unmet expectations.
(18:59):
First there's hurt, then there'sfrustration, then you have
resentment and eventually bitterness.
And so we're trying to undo those by.
Giving people the tools.
And by the way, each one ofthese seven problems, or seven
dragons to your language, allhas a tool to like defeat it.
So there's a mm-hmm.
You know, a a, a literal toolthat we run through expectation
settings where it needs to be clear,then, uh, doable, matched and met.
(19:22):
And we can actually measure that.
Oh, our expectation settingwas at a four out of 10.
And then after we start using thetool for a couple weeks, now it's
at a seven or an eight out of 10.
So we can see growth and clarity coming.
The next thing afterthat is there's conflict.
Anytime you reset expectations,you're naturally gonna have conflict.
And so the average employee under the ageof 40 is more likely to look for a new job
(19:44):
than have a hard conversation, especiallyaround money or raises or potential.
And so it's like, well, no, no, hold on.
The tension is good if we use it properly.
So how do we teach you tohave a hard conversation?
And so we've got a tool for that as well.
And then the fourth thing comesin when we don't know how to,
you know, clarify our language.
So we've had some conflict, butwhat you're saying, what I'm
(20:05):
saying isn't exactly the same.
So it's that communication skill you weretalking about after which, you know, we'll
create some, uh, onboarding issues wherewe go, okay, we know what we're doing.
We have the expectations andwe've had hard conversations.
We've clarified the needs, but hold on,where are we in the training process?
'cause you might know somethingreally deeply and I don't know it.
And so that's the, the onboardingor the people development.
(20:27):
Then once you have peopleonboarded, they're gonna have
new ideas of how to do things.
And so how do you run a process ofidea to implementation where your
ideators don't get shot down andyour implementers don't get worn out?
Yeah.
And then the final thing isreally this big amorphous idea
of leadership development.
And so that's what we see as kind of theseventh problem or the seventh dragon is.
(20:48):
Leadership is really just three things.
It's attention to the right problem, uh,intention with a couple of, uh, manageable
solutions, and then finally a commitmentto a deadline or a result that actually
changes, uh, a needle on that problem.
So those are really the seven thingsthat we see most is purpose alignment.
Uh, and then going straight intoexpectation, uh, management,
(21:10):
conflict, people development, clearlanguage, ideation and leadership.
So, so, um, as you're running abusiness, uh, I'm no therapist.
Right.
And so, uh, that's the hard partis I feel like we have to be camp
counselors as well sometimes.
Yeah.
Uh.
And, and business owners,entrepreneurs, uh, are also
(21:32):
having their own issues, right?
Sure.
Uh, their own, uh, challenges.
They're, they're busy being people.
Yeah.
Right.
They're, they're people.
I have one, one, uh, person that said,um, said, I need to change 'cause
I'm a, I've, I've learned how to be acompany that's a $20 million company
and I need to turn and be a different.
(21:57):
Person for a hundred milliondollar company what got you
20 won't get to a hundred.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and so how would you say asa leader that, that we need to
communicate with this and knowingthat also being open, knowing that.
(22:17):
Things may shift.
How?
How do you deal with that knowingthat, hey, this was good for a 10
person team, but at a 30 personteam, everything needs to shift.
Yeah.
I think it really isgrowing your curiosity.
You had a certain curiositythat got you to 20 million.
It will require a differentcuriosity around both people and
(22:38):
process to get to a hundred million.
And this is where we focus.
We focus on both parts of that.
'cause we think there'sreally four critical Ps to
having a for-profit company.
First.
It's a purpose.
What problem do you solve in the world?
The next thing is the people whoare drawn to that specific purpose.
Then it's the process that supportsthose people in solving that problem.
(23:01):
And then fourthly, it's theprofit that is then drawn to that
particular problem being solved.
And so if you can reexamine thatfour part framework for 20 million
as opposed to a hundred million,you're gonna need a larger purpose
to get from 20 million to a hundred.
Yeah, other than just the $80 milliondelta between 20 and a hundred, that's
not an interesting enough problemfor A players to be attracted to.
(23:23):
But once you're able to communicatethat and clarify that, then those
sorts of people will be drawn to it.
But then also your leadership of thosesorts of people have to adjust because.
The players that will take you from 20to a hundred million are different than
those that took you from zero to 20.
So how do you have the hard conversationwith your existing people to go, Hey, are
you wanting to grow in this direction?
Or Were you only interestedin a company of this size?
(23:46):
And do we either need to find you adifferent place within the organization,
or do we need to help you find adifferent organization who's solving
a different problem for this nextseason of your professional life?
And that takes a lot of curiosityand compassion to go, I want
to have this conversation.
I don't want to just assume.
Either you're good enough andwant to go, or you're not good
enough, so you need to get off.
Or some combination of those two things.
(24:08):
Yeah, and then the third part ofthis is we also then work on, this
is why we created tangible tools.
It's to fix the process.
Because process, notpeople are the problem.
Process, not people are the solution.
So as soon as we create a framework thatyour a hundred million kind of people
(24:28):
can be in now, they need to rest on afoundation of processes that can serve
them getting from 20 to a hundred million.
I. Then what I tell people oddlyenough is you just have to have the
fortitude for wait for the pro towait for the profit to come to you.
Because once you're fixing the rightproblem with the right kind of people
and processes, it's wild how profitjust starts to take care of itself.
(24:48):
But if you chase the fourth thing,profit first at the expense of process
and people and purpose, it's amazing howprofit will just start to run from you.
So it's this difference of can I buildsomething at scale that feels safe
and stable to both people and profit?
Then they'll be drawn to me.
If I'm chasing both of those things,they will constantly run from me.
(25:09):
Now, now you mentioned, um, and,and I think it's a different
kind of profit first, right?
Where people are, uh, I'm a profitfirst certified individual Right.
Client.
Right?
Right.
Uh, and so when you said aprofit before people mm-hmm.
Or, or that, that can be damaging.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Uh, and so, but at the same time.
(25:32):
This is why I love Profit First andwhy this is such a powerful thing is.
Most business owners, uh, and sleep,especially small business owners,
they, they're last to get paid.
Right.
They, they're last to take careof them, and you are a person.
Mm-hmm.
You are one of those people,not just your team but you.
Yeah.
And so by putting those priorities inplace and those foundations in place,
(25:55):
you're able to ask the right questions.
Having a good financial process mm-hmm.
Is why I love infinite banking is,is by having the financial framework.
I then can say, okay, here's theprocess, the financial process, and
if we do the right things as faras in the game plan book, and we,
we follow that, that'll help lead.
(26:17):
Uh, but then it changes.
Mm-hmm.
It has to change becausepercentages change.
Right.
Uh, you're not gonna make, if you'remaking a hundred million, you're
not gonna make 50%, uh, profit ornot profit, but 50% owners pay.
It's gonna change becauseyou have more teams.
Yep.
That you have to pay more and,and this is where we talk about
(26:38):
expectations are experiments.
So with all expectations, they'rechanging all the time, and we're
not reexamining them and resettingexpectations often enough.
So like you said, when the percentageson the revenue or the profit change,
well that should indicate, oh,the experiment is altered either
slightly or greatly, and we needto reexamine the expectation, which
(27:00):
means we need to reset the experiment.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, to your exact point,I, I too am a proponent of profit
first in terms of paying ownership.
Or paying the founders or the leaders,because even in that micro example,
right, they started with a purpose,then they were the person, then they
created a process to go and garnerrevenue, and then now there's profit.
(27:22):
And even at a micro level, ata lemonade stand, like it went
from idea and problem to solutionand profit within an afternoon.
Yep.
Well, you should get the first returnson that profit in order to feel stable
in yourself to then attract a playersaround a bigger purpose, around new,
greater processes to go drive more profit.
And so those things to meare mutually inclusive.
(27:44):
Yeah, I think that that's, again,I, I, as, as I was talking to you,
I'm like, he's the people guy.
We're the finance guy.
You work together.
And if you understand the 80 20 ruleor the other rules of like not spending
on stupid stuff, like a lot of timesbusiness owners are doing that.
Uh, your biggest resources arepeople, uh, look at any business.
(28:09):
Uh, it's either, uh, rent.
Or payroll.
Yep.
Um, or both, uh, and payroll.
And if you train somebody and thenall of a sudden they're gone after
a year, uh, because all that,that, that costs a lot of money.
Mm-hmm.
And so, um, how have you seen withthat, uh, and this kind of, might,
(28:31):
may go off a little bit with the,the invention of ai, the, all this
chat, GPT stuff and everything else.
Um.
Know, sometimes the people part islike, well, I don't need to to talk
to a person because I got, um, SIRand quad and everything else now.
(28:54):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, how have you seen that shiftfor you and your business just in
the past, I don't know, six months?
Yeah, so like you said, the,the advent of all things ai.
Is just the newest widget.
It's the newest tool in my mind.
And so I coach executives andfounders every day, and one of
the things that I'm telling themis this is not the end of people.
(29:17):
It's the new tool tointegrate with people.
And so even in our work, we talk about,you know, we train people how to people.
And what we're adding now to that iswe're training people in the age of ai.
Yeah.
'cause they will be integrating withAI and it's not an either or that
you will either be good at peoplestuff or you'll be good at AI stuff.
It's a both end.
(29:37):
Yeah.
You'll have to continue to invest inyour people skills because that will
actually get exponentially more costly.
I. Because people are looking at AI andgoing, oh, this will eradicate the need
for, I guess, any humans in my team.
It may eradicate the need for some basictasks, but what the way you should be
thinking about that is if I can take myadministrator, AI is not to replace them.
(30:00):
It's to make them a hundredtimes more productive.
So if I'm peeing them well and helpingthem set great expectations and understand
the conflict and ideating around thisand developing them and creating great
leadership skills in them, all of asudden you don't have one administrator.
You have 50 or a hundred of theseother tools have, uh, increased
(30:21):
their output by a false factor 10.
And so.
The things that we're seeing nowis a lot of anxiety for smaller
and mid-size companies on beingable to keep up with that.
And so one of the thingswe're talking about is hiring
automations, uh, specialists andai, uh, subject matter experts.
(30:41):
And so we've, even in my company,I'm not an, uh, automations or
an AI expert, so what did I do?
I partnered with otherpeople who are, yeah.
And so even in our company, they'regoing, oh, we're having problem with
our 90 day reviews, or people aren't.
Performing as well as they should.
We replace 'em with ai.
And then we go in and we basicallydo an audit of, well, what are
(31:02):
you doing inside the company?
Oh, well, they're not performingbecause the expectations are unclear.
Not because you should be replacing themwith ai and in other places it's going.
They're doing some very manual tasksthat you're overpaying them for.
Where we could partner them with an AIagent to be able to do that sort of thing.
And so our experience in the lastsix months, and I think it'll be our
(31:22):
experience for the next at least 50years that I do this work, is it will
heavily be about how do you traineq because that's only getting more
expensive emotional intelligence peoplewith people, while IQ gets drastically
cheaper, because I don't need somebody's.
Particular data, subject matter expertise.
I need their wisdom, their consultation.
(31:43):
How does this work in the real world?
Um, and those things will only be,I think, increased by our ability to
do them at scale with things like ai.
I, I, I've been thinking a lot aboutthis and, and using it for tools
like using, I mean, again, profitFirst and, and infinite banking.
How do I, uh, make it easier?
(32:04):
Mm-hmm.
Um, using that.
And I, I've used the tool actually to do,um, just, just, um, customer feedback.
Right.
Um, now what's interestingis you mentioned.
Back in the day.
This is in the, the wayback machine in 1995.
Mm-hmm.
Remember way, way back when?
Way back, way, way, way back.
(32:24):
Yeah.
Uh, there was no computer.
14 years old.
Yeah.
Right.
There was no computers.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And then all of a sudden, in between96 and 2000, we have this device that
we're talking through that everybody has.
And these smartphones, um, thatfive years changed everything.
Everything, the whole plan, everything.
(32:44):
Mm-hmm.
And, and um, a lot of people wereresistant business owners, some of
them were like, yeah, it's just a fat.
Mm-hmm.
But.
But it was what took over.
Um, and I believe that we are in that ageof AI where there's a chasm happening.
And if as business owners, if wearen't trying to playing with it
to learn how we can use it or havepeople that know how to use the, the
(33:08):
technology side, that's important.
But as you said, nothing replaces the um.
Um, emotional intelligence and all that.
I think that's why it's so much moreimportant to dive into that stuff, um,
and to understand that people are people.
We still have the same issuessometimes, uh, whether you are
(33:29):
in the Roman times or, or today.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and some of it's remotely,like I wanna have purpose, I wanna have,
uh, a reason to, to be doing things.
Mm-hmm.
Same thing as back in the day.
Um.
So I love that.
Um, I think that that's, uh, again, whywe can get along so well is 'cause it's
(33:50):
not just about the numbers, it's aboutasking good questions and continuing.
And it's using technologyto help, uh, make it faster.
But in, in the end, we haveto sit with ourselves and
ask ourselves good questions.
That's fine.
Um, I wanna share your website, uh, here,uh, because I love sharing websites.
(34:11):
'cause here's the thing.
Yeah.
Oftentimes most people like, uh, like.
Like, uh, brick and mortar coffee shops,they don't go in to the coffee shop
because they're afraid they're gonna getzap because it does, it wasn't like the
Starbucks that they went into before.
Right.
Uh, you know what I'm saying?
Like, we never go intonew, new, weird places.
Yeah.
And they make a frappuccino.
Am I ordering it wrong?
(34:33):
Can I go in here?
Can I do the same thing that, um, yeah.
Can you guys do thething that I'm used to?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that's, um, what,what happens all the time?
I, I swear.
Let's do it this way.
I'm gonna switch this around here, guys.
What am I doing here?
There's our new site.
There we go.
There we go.
(34:53):
So, so, um, as you guys are working,and I work with a lot of business
owners, uh, a lot of times theywill complain about their people.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but they don't invest in,in the things that'll help them.
Um.
Grow in their people skills.
Uh, and so, uh, guys, as you'relistening, this is something that you
(35:17):
as a leader, um, should invest in.
'cause, 'cause your greatestasset is your people.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they make the widgets happen.
So, uh, anything you wanna showthis be a fun question for you?
How much do you think it costs abusiness owner when they lose, uh,
a talented person on their team?
(35:38):
Uh, it depends.
I would say at least 30 or40,000, um, probably because
of the cost of, of training.
Training, getting somebody,again, lost productivity.
The conservative math these days is twoand a half times their yearly salary.
So if you're paying somebodya hundred thousand, that's a
quarter of a million dollar loss.
(35:59):
And so we go in there to say, listen,we're gonna help you retain great talent.
We're gonna help you attract great talent.
We're also gonna help everybodyhave more fun and be more efficient
in the work that they're doingand add purpose to that thing.
And so our bottom line kind of promisesto 10 x anybody's investment with us.
I think that that's huge.
If you guys didn't hear that 10 xyour investment, if your people are
(36:22):
working, uh, they, they learn thetools and, and they can become more
both efficient and stick around.
Uh, that is, that is ginormous, right?
Yeah.
So, so walk me through what is here that,that you want to, uh, say, Hey, these guys
need to click on this thing, on this page.
Why would they go to this, this website?
(36:42):
Yeah.
So, um, at some point thereshould be a popup, uh, that gives
you one of our free playbooks.
So it'll kind of help you understandthe work that we're doing around
conflict and expectation settingand ideation, all that stuff.
Um, the quickest way obviously, toget any help from us would be just to
schedule one of those free sessionswhere we can ask some questions.
Hey, what's the presenting problem?
(37:03):
Maybe we can help, maybe we can't help,but if we can't help, we should be
able to direct you into, uh, somebodyelse who's, you know, better at the
thing that you're, uh, up against.
But nine times outta 10, we canprobably help if it's a people issue.
And then where you're goingdown if you need it, you can
see the clients we work with.
And then obviously kind of our philosophy.
There's me in a silly suit.
(37:23):
And, uh, do you wear that all the time?
I, I, yeah.
I do not.
That's, uh, it was put on for, uh.
For Mr. Jeremy Cowart, who waskind enough to take my pictures.
Um, and funny enough, he, he is,uh, photographed, uh, Taylor Swift
and a bunch of other much coolerpeople, so he was kind enough
for buddies to take my picture.
Um, and then down here you'llsee from some of the other people
(37:44):
we've worked with, what they'vesaid has been helpful to them.
So these are the sevenskills that we help around.
And then if you keep on goingdown, uh, you'll see, uh, what
other people have said abouttheir work with us, um, as well.
And then at the bottom.
You'll just again, get to seewhat's, how we work and, uh,
grab your free strategy session.
Cool.
(38:04):
And if you guys didn't know, uh,if you go to our website, um,
let me show you this website.
I'm sure you guys have been there.
Um.
Because you know who wouldn'tgo to my, my website?
Yeah.
Come on.
Um, this website, um, was built by,I believe probably the same person.
(38:24):
Um, yeah.
And yours is prettier than mine, whichmakes me mad, Brandon, like, I'm gonna
have to get their team to redo mine now.
'cause every time I see yours, I'mlike, man, I did a good job with
helping you create the, uh, thebrand profile, but they did an even
better job on executing your site.
So I guess I need a refresh.
Yeah, I, I'm always working,but it's, uh, getting more, uh,
my, my thing now is traffic.
(38:45):
I gotta get more people to itbecause, um, how do I build it?
But that this is, again, ifyou look at that and you say,
wow, that looks very familiar.
Mm-hmm.
Well, because there's a guythat I. Um, your brother that
helped build both, I believe.
Yeah.
He's, he is the best guy I knowin the business, so if you need a
website built, you can also, uh,email me or Brandon, we can put you
(39:06):
in touch with, uh, driftwood Creative.
'cause they do a greatjob with these things.
Awesome.
Well, what, um, let mejust stop this here.
Anything that you want to leave, um.
Our listeners with that, yousay, I forgot to say this.
I wanna make sure I, I hitthis, that I did not ask.
(39:28):
Yeah.
Your number one job asa leader is clarity.
I. And if you don't find it, and thenif you don't give it to other people,
all you're doing is creating ambiguity.
And our, you know, kind of one ofour core, Tess, is clarity creates
connection and ambiguity creates anxiety.
And so your job as a leader is to reduceanxiety first for yourself, then your
(39:50):
team, then the organization, then theclient and the industry in that order.
And so if you're havingtrouble finding that clarity.
You need to, you know, get intouch with somebody like Brandon.
If it's around financial ambiguity, ifit's around people or brand, you can get
in touch with somebody like me, um, or youcan go read a book or listen to a podcast.
But I would encourage you to takeaction around clarifying anything
(40:13):
that you have anxiety about.
And the beauty of that is anxietybecomes this great check engine light.
If you're going, oh, I feelanxious about this, this, or
this, I tell people all the time.
Write down the things that you're worriedabout, and then what you'll notice
is, oh, well, immediately, Carl said.
Anxiety is created by ambiguity.
Something's unclear.
How do I get greater clarityover my people, my brand,
(40:35):
my finances, the product?
How do I get, you know, morelead flow to my website?
Somebody out there has an answerto the thing that is unclear.
It is clear to somebody else.
And my job as a leader is notnecessarily to become a subject matter
expert at everything, but ratherit's to find the people to partner
with in order to get that clarity.
Because if I don't.
(40:56):
Then anxiety continues, andthen I want to do the job less.
Other people around me want to do theirwork less everybody suffers, but when I
get clarity and increase that connectionboth to myself and each other, it becomes
now work worth doing because we understandboth why it's important and how to do it.
And so it's about askingthose better questions.
Who knows this thing that Ineed to get clearer on, and
(41:19):
how do I get close to them?
Awesome.
Well, that's a mic drop there.
Uh, like, like I've said before inthis podcast, if you confuse, you
lose, uh, that is Donald Miller.
Uh, and um, this is one of those thingswhere being clear about your finances,
being clear about your people, uh, beingclear about your mission, uh, and again,
(41:42):
as we run through life, things kindof clutter up and everyone has a plan
for your money, your time, everything.
And so.
Having that quiet time is important too.
So, um, with that, thanksCarl for being here.
I know it's been a long time coming.
Yeah.
Enjoyed it.
Enjoyed it.
Guys, don't forget, uh, hit that like,subscribe, write a comment there.
(42:03):
If you have a question forCarl, put in the comments.
Uh, I know how to get ahold of him.
So, I mean, of course what you should do.
Uh, not just write a comment, butschedule a 15 minute call with him.
That would be good.
Yeah, ours is easy.
It's just you gotta get more curious.
Dot com.
Yeah, get more curious.com.
And with that guys, wewill see you next time.
(42:23):
Thanks for being here and looking forwardto our next interview or something coming
up and watch the next video coming up.
Cheers.
I.