March 13, 2025 • 51 mins
In today’s episode of the *Wealthy Woman Lawyer®* podcast, I chat with Sylvie di Giusto, an international keynote speaker and expert on leadership, perception, and decision-making. With decades of corporate experience in Europe and the United States, Sylvie brings groundbreaking insights into how professionals can shape their image and brand through intentional choices. She is the world’s first 3D immersive keynote speaker, an award-winning presenter, and the author of The Image of Leadership and Discover Your Fair Advantage. Sylvie helps organizations enhance leadership, drive sales success, and elevate brand reputation.
Listen in as Sylvie and I discuss:
- The role of perception in leadership and professional success.
- How business owners and professionals can craft their personal brand intentionally.
- The impact of appearance, behavior, communication, and digital presence in shaping first impressions.
- Why self-awareness is crucial for effective leadership and how to avoid the 'CEO disease.'
- Strategies for hiring employees based on values instead of just skills.
- The importance of authenticity and balancing professionalism with personal identity in today’s digital world.
- How Sylvie became the world’s first 3D immersive keynote speaker and revolutionized corporate presentations.
Go here to listen.
Go here to watch.
LINKS TO LOVE:
To learn more about Sylvie di Giusto, visit www.sylviedigiusto.com or connect with Sylvie on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok.
Take Sylvie’s Perception Audit:
Explore her mobile courses:
Check out Sylvie’s books:
- Discover Your Fair Advantage:
Ready to scale your law firm and build a practice that aligns with your values? Check out our new training: "3 Beliefs Preventing You From Attaining Your $1M+ Law Firm and Millionaire Lifestyle" (And How to Turn it All Around in 90 Days and Finally Get What You Want Most).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:01):
Welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. What if
you could hang out withsuccessful women lawyers, ask
them about growing their firms,managing resources like time,
team, and systems, masteringmoney issues, and more. Then
take an insight or two to helpyou build a wealth generating
law firm. Each week, your host,Davina Frederick, takes an
(00:22):
in-depth look at how to thinklike a CEO, attract clients who
you love to serve and will payyou on time, and create a
profitable, sustainable firm youlove. Davina is founder and CEO
of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and hergoal is to give you the
information you need to scaleyour law firm business from 6 to
7 figures in gross annualrevenue so you can fully fund
(00:44):
and still have time to enjoy thelifestyle of your dreams.
Now here's Davina.
Davina (00:50):
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy
Woman Lawyer podcast. I'm yourhost, Divina Frederick, and my
guest today is Sylvie Digisto.Sylvie is an international
keynote speaker who bringsdecades of corporate expertise
and experience from Europe toher award winning presentations.
A former management consultantfor Fortune 100 companies, head
(01:11):
of a management academy, andchief of staff at Europe's
largest retail and tourismgroup, she has a deep
understanding of leadership,strategy, and performance. As
the world's first three dimmersive keynote speaker,
Sylvie helps organizationsenhance leadership, drive sales
success, and elevate brandreputation.
(01:32):
She is the author of a 10 partseries called The Image of
Leadership and Discover YourFair Advantage, and she empowers
professionals to lead better,sell faster, and persuade
instantly one intentional choiceat a time. So please join me in
welcoming Sylvie to the wealthywoman lawyer podcast. Hi,
Sylvie. Welcome. I'm so gladyou're here today on the wealthy
(01:54):
woman lawyer podcast.
Sylvie (01:56):
Davina, thank you very much for having me. I'm so
excited to be with you. Thankyou for inviting me to your
wonderful group and community.
Davina (02:04):
Oh, wonderful. I we are happy to have someone who's kind
of an international star on thespeaker stage. So, you're gonna
bring a lot of interestingflavor to our conversation
today, I think. So why don't youtell us I discussed in your bio
kind of your background, but whydon't you tell us how you work
with clients and what you howwhat you help them do?
Sylvie (02:27):
Mhmm. So I, myself, I have a long corporate career. I
was in the inside walls ofcorporations for more than
twenty years. And, even if youare a business owner, you might
understand or have observed thefrustration that I had for
twenty years. Very often, wehired people for vacant
(02:49):
positions in thoseorganizations.
And during the interviews, theysaid all the right things. They
behaved exactly the way wewanted them to behave. They even
looked the way we wanted them tolook. And then years later, due
to a total lack of performance,for example, we had to fire them
and let them go. And so I wasalways frustrated, between or
(03:11):
about the gap between how weperceived people and how they
actually turned out.
And then on the other hand, wehad so many young and ambitious
and, you know, passionateprofessionals in that
organization. And I wondered whydidn't they stand out to us as
potential candidates. Why didn'twe hire them for those
(03:31):
positions? And I figured, well,they didn't position themselves
and present themselves to us asdecision makers, as potential
candidates as well. And so outof that frustration and learning
on the both sides, when mylifelong dream came true to move
to The United States, I leftbehind my corporate career,
(03:53):
changed the sides, and went onthe speaking side and thought
that I share not just what Ihave learned about leadership,
perception, decision making,customer interaction, sales
during my corporate career, butalso what I, until then and till
today, have studied aboutdecision making process,
(04:15):
perception, unconscious biases,how we are influenced by first
and lasting present perceptions,and impressions.
And that is what I am sofortunate to do, to speak at
conferences and conventions andshare insights with leaders and
professionals and businessowners about how they are
perceived by the world and whatimpact that perception has on a
(04:40):
decision making process ofothers.
Davina (04:43):
That's so fascinating because we don't often think of
how we we know who we are in ourown mind and what our what our
heart is and what we think we'rehere for and what we but often,
we don't think about how we'rebeing perceived by others in
certain environments. Right? Sowe may know how we're perceived
(05:05):
by others that we know well. Butwhen we're going into work
environment, we not we we maynot be intentionally saying, how
can I intentionally be perceivedthe way that I want to be
perceived? Right?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Sylvie (05:19):
Absolutely. I'm just thinking you could give my
keynote because I talk all aboutintention by intentionally
crafting the way that you areperceived. But truth to be told
is, first, it's always startingwith you because we are all
unique. Right? Davina, you wouldlike to be perceived in a way
(05:40):
that I wouldn't like to beperceived and vice versa, and
that is good.
So so I always encouragebusiness owners and
professionals to first definehow they would like to perceive
themselves and what imprint theyactually would like to make on
others. And you know there arelawyers out there who wants to
(06:01):
imprint on others that they aretrustworthy, but there are also
lawyers who want to imprint onothers that they are innovative
and others creative and othersmaybe funny. Right? Right. And
all those lawyers appear andbehave and communicate
differently.
And so you have already toolsavailable that you can shape
(06:23):
your perception. But, and here'sthe but that many forget, your
customers and clients, they haveexpectations. And you also must
analyze those expectationsbecause, yes, the funny lawyer,
it is great that they areauthentically funny. But if that
(06:44):
is not the expectation of thatone client you are interacting
with that in that moment, thenit has an impact on the decision
making process. And I haveasked, in my own research around
24,000 people during the lastyears about random professions.
I asked them, what is yourexpectation for the picture
(07:07):
perfect teacher? What is yourexpectation for the picture
perfect police officer? What isyour expectation? Different
professions. And I let you guessnow what is the number one word
that comes to mind when the24,000 people that I researched
when I asked them, what is yourexpectation when you think of
the picture perfect interactionwith a lawyer?
(07:30):
What do you think, Davina, isthe number one word that
Davina (07:33):
you picture perfect lawyer? I would think it would
be trustworthiness or integrity,something like that.
Sylvie (07:38):
Again again, you could give my keynote.
Davina (07:43):
Finally, I have a plan I could except for my stage
fright. So, no, I could not giveyou a keynote. But
Sylvie (07:50):
The the number one word is trust. That is interesting.
Yeah. The number two word iscare. They want to
Davina (07:58):
see A lot of lawyers would be shocked by that. Yeah.
Sylvie (08:02):
And the number three word is attention to detail.
Very surprising. Right? On theone hand, on the other, you know
as a lawyer how much you have todig into the detail because your
clients don't want to and cannot. So you need to ask yourself
not just how you areauthentically yourself, but also
(08:26):
what are the expectations forthe clientele you work with.
And depending on the type of lawyou're working Right. Or even
depending on the location youare based in, on on the cultural
circumstances, those words mightbe different. And then it's up
to you if you're with intentioncraft an appearance, a behavior,
(08:49):
communication that fulfills bothsides or not.
Davina (08:54):
Yeah. Yeah. I talk with my clients often about you know,
core values is something thatpeople throw around, and they
say, oh, we have to do our corevalues, homework, or whatever.
When I'm talking to my clients,I'm talking to them about their
well, most of them are startingfirms. So they are, even as
they're growing it, it's theircore values as a person that is
(09:17):
that we want to show up in ourfirm.
And it and one of the things wetalk about is how do we take
that core value, that sort ofesoteric and a and a concept,
and how do we make it concrete?How does that core value show up
in your business? So
Sylvie (09:36):
Mhmm.
Davina (09:37):
One of the things you we talk about trustworthiness.
Right? How does trustworthy showup? What actions are we taking
as a law firm? What arereceptionists is doing?
What are client care specialistsdoing? What are paralegals
doing? What are our associateattorneys doing that convey
trustworthy behavior to ourclients and give them that
(09:58):
comfort level? So it's a verytangible sort of thing. Mhmm.
Is that something that you whenyou're talking about this image
that we're crafting, is thatsomething we're looking at doing
is looking for concrete.
Sylvie (10:09):
I offer my clients a framework to do exactly that
with themselves, but also withtheir teams along every single
touch point that they have withcustomers. And when I work with
them through that framework, Iwant them to look into five
areas, which I very simply callthe a, b, c, d, e. The a stands
(10:32):
for their appearance. Like it ornot, humans are visual
creatures. Our brains actuallydon't like to work.
That's why they take a shortcutthrough our eyes. And people
just look at you as a lawyer oras somebody from a team of
lawyers, and they think theyknow something about you by the
(10:54):
way you look. Your body image,your clothes, the cuts, the fit,
the colors, the quality, yourhair, your makeup, your
accessories, the entire visualpicture that you paint in those
interactions. Now this is notabout, looking always trendy or
looking always, like, a millionbucks, but you need to be aware
(11:17):
that your visual appearance isthe first impression that you
make on them because very oftenyou don't even speak a word.
Right?
They just see you and they thinkthat they know something about
you. We know that, for example,in the first seven seconds, our
brain makes up to 11 majordecisions about somebody else.
(11:38):
And so ask yourself, in ourappearance, myself and every
single team member's appearance,do we showcase trust? How does
trust look like according to usas a brand, as an organization.
Right?
No. That doesn't have to bealmost a boring, charcoal gray
(12:00):
suit. You know, there arevariations of trust, But how
does it look like for us? How dowe like to show up in person or
on our pictures on the website?How does it look like?
The second is the b for thebehavior. Trust shows up in
behavior. Your attitude. Do youhave charisma trustworthy
(12:23):
charisma when you walk into aroom? How about your emotional
intelligence?
How about your morals andethics? How about the things,
the decisions that you make whennobody is watching? How about
your conflict management skills?How in those all those
behavioral interactions can youshow that people instantly can
(12:46):
trust you? And then there is thec for communication.
Surprisingly, I will say thefirst part or the most important
part about communication isactually not talking, not
speaking. It doesn't include anywords. It's listening. How good
of a listener are you whenpotential clients reach out to
(13:07):
you or the or in theconversations that you have with
them on a case? And then yourbody speaks too.
Does it speak trust all thetime? Your facial expressions,
your body language, andobviously the words that you
choose, the language palette,the word patterns, the tone of
(13:28):
your voice. Does it all saytrust? Another is the d, and I
want you to be especially awareof the d because it has become
so tremendously important alsoor in particular in your
industry, and that is yourdigital footprint. The most
(13:48):
interactions we don't have inperson anymore.
We have them in some sort ofdigital way. The emails that you
send out, do they signal trustevery single time with beginning
with the subject line, beginningwith who you put on into the two
field, into the cc field, yourgrandma, your signature? Does it
(14:09):
all say trust? And alwaysremember those emails can get
forwarded and forwarded andforwarded it to people you don't
even know somebody is readingyour email right now that wasn't
meant for them. Your socialmedia.
What if you Google your name?Now you might think, well, I
have my website for my law firm.They should go there, not on my
(14:31):
Facebook profile. But this isnot how people think. They
research your name and they lookat everything that they find.
Does everything they find on youonline communicate trust the
virtual meetings that you haveand then there is the e Let look
(14:52):
yourself and let your team lookinto your environment. And with
that, I mean your physicalenvironment and your social
environment. The physicalenvironment, your office. If
somebody would come into youroffice, does it say trust
instantly? Or your socialenvironment, and this is very
often one of the mostunderestimated ones.
(15:15):
The people you hang out with,the people you surround yourself
with, your friends, your family,your network, what they post on
social media, does they saytrust? Right? They might tag
you. They might comment on yourposts. And people take all of
that into consideration whenthey create a perception about
(15:35):
you.
So to make those thingstangible, look into your and
your team's appearance,behavior, communication, digital
footprint, and environment, andcheck if the words that you want
to imprint as a brand and withyour values on others really are
(15:56):
applied in the way that peopleactually can instantly feel it
subconsciously.
Davina (16:02):
That's that is that's a wonderful way to categorize
that. Do does anybody ever tellyou that feels very
overwhelming?
Sylvie (16:13):
Yes. Yes. But here's the thing. You know, your image is a
puzzle. It's a puzzle ofmillions of pieces that you have
to put together every singleday, and you're going to make
mistake.
You can't please everybody. Youcan't always imprint positively
exactly what you want. I makemistake every single day. Right?
(16:37):
I am not in control of all theminds around me, but here's what
I always say.
If you don't at least try totake control of it, somebody
else will. Because your brand isnot what's on your website. It's
not your logo. It's not what youput out there. Your brand is
what people feel and say behindyour back.
Davina (17:03):
Right. Right.
Sylvie (17:05):
And so we we never really know what our image
really is because nobody istelling us. Even if you ask your
team members, your community,your boss, or whoever you're
gonna ask, Even if they respondwith words, those words are
heavily influenced by therelationship those people have
to you. So even if they wouldlike to, they just can't tell
(17:28):
you the truth anymore. So inthat big piece of puzzle, in
that big puzzle, all thosemillions of pieces, no, it's
overwhelming. You can't controlall of them.
But by intentionally controllingmany of them, you're already
doing much better than others.And Right. You've been just
(17:49):
trying
Davina (17:49):
to wing it. Yes. Yeah. Every because people bring
themselves to the conversationtoo. If somebody has an opinion
about me based on what I put outthere, what my brand is, and
they don't know me and they'regoing based on what they see.
They're also bringing their ownfilter to the conversation. And
so it really can't be about you.It's not really about pleasing
(18:12):
everyone as much as it issaying, is is the message I'm
putting out into the world inalignment with who I want to be
as a person? That kind of thing.Right?
So you have written extensively.You have a series of books that
you've written about the imageof leadership. And I wanna talk
specifically about leadership.We've talked a lot about sort of
(18:35):
lawyers and and, you know, trustbeing that dominant
characteristic people arelooking for, but a lot of our
listeners are building their ownlaw firms. And one of the things
that has been a challenge andone of the things I'm often
talking with them about is justbecause you hire people doesn't
mean that you automatically knowhow to be a leader to those
(18:57):
people.
And I think we sort ofautomatically think I'm building
this business. I'm hiringpeople, and it's real simple.
These are the clients. This isthe work we're doing, and you're
gonna come in, and we're gonnaget the work done, and we're
gonna focus on that. We're gonnahave no drama environment.
And then they're surprised whenthey start having all these sort
of personnel issues. They'rehiring people who who turn out
not to be the right fit.
Sylvie (19:18):
Yeah.
Davina (19:19):
Our people change and leave and do their own thing.
And then they're left sittinghere going, what's wrong with
me? I'm hiring the wrong people.Or everybody's gonna see this
high turnover. And oftentimes,they're not looking inward and
saying, where are my skills as aleader lacking because I haven't
(19:40):
invested in sort of developingthese skills.
Mhmm. So talk to me about sortof the image of a leader and
what people expect in a leader,and does that vary based on
whether it's in business orsocially or politically or or
whatever?
Sylvie (19:58):
Well, first, if I may comment on the hiring issue that
you just described, this isvery, very common for everyone
who has ever built a business.And here is one recommendation
that I, I may share with you ifyou are in that situation. And
this is don't hire for skills.Don't hire for skills how you
(20:22):
hire for values. Look into theperson's values.
The skills is always somethingyou can train them later. Look
out for their natural talentsrather than, if that is possible
in your field, thecertifications that they might
have. Right? So I think, skillsis something nowadays you can
(20:44):
learn so easily. You can providethem with so many tools even for
free sometimes for some of theskills that, you shouldn't hire
for skills anymore.
You should hire for values. Findthe right people with the right
values, and you will minimizethe issues you will have hiring
(21:05):
the wrong people. The second, asa leader, one of my most
important core principles that Ishare is no matter if you're in
a corporation or a businessowner, you have to lead by
example twenty four seven. Theylook at you and they follow the
(21:25):
standards that you set. And sovery often we are not aware so
much of how we are doing things,how we are appearing, how we are
behaving, how we arecommunicating because I call it
the CEODCs.
The longer we do our job and themore successful we are and the
(21:49):
higher we have climbed thecareer ladder, the less self
aware we become. We we wouldwish that we are more self
aware, but the reality isn'tthere's a lot of science out
there that proof that The thelonger we do things, the higher
we climb, but the moresuccessful we are, the less self
we are we are because the morewe are convinced that what we
(22:12):
are doing is right and correct,and the less we get outside
feedback because people aredependent on you. They have, you
know, they have a codependentrelationship. So why should they
really tell you the truth if youare the firm owner? So you need
to step back and double checkevery time, how do I appear, how
(22:34):
do I behave, how do Icommunicate, because that sets
the standard in my team.
They are subconsciously watchingyou, and you are setting the
tone. You are setting thestandard. You can't expect more
from them than they see youapplying every single day. And
(22:55):
then, you know, the mostoverused word in leadership, in
my opinion, is authenticity. Youwill hear so many speakers
walking on stages and say, youyou just do you.
Right? As a leader, it'simportant that you are
authentic. And I think thatauthenticity in the way it is
(23:22):
shared with us is a lie. We allplay roles. Every single day, I
play roles, you play roles,Davina.
I play a role as a mother of twowonderful children. I play a
role as a wife to my househusband. I play a different role
as a speaker on stage. I play adifferent role as the business
(23:46):
owner at home to my team. I playa different role as a volunteer
to my community.
Yes. In those roles, I'mauthentic, but it has a
different hue. It has adifferent flavor. I can't speak
to my children the same way likeI speak to my clients. And just
(24:07):
imagine I would speak to myhusband the same way I would
speak like I speak to my teamand vice versa.
Right. Right. So while youshould have a clear red thread,
which usually are our corevalues, make sure that you have
clearly defined for you how thatauthentic leader role looks like
(24:31):
for you. Where are theboundaries? Where does it start?
Where does it end? And how doyou fulfill that role before you
go home and become a motheragain or a wife again or you
become the volunteer in thecommunity because that leader
role looks, behave, andcommunicates online and offline
(24:52):
quite differently, although it'sthe same person. And the last
one, and I'm saying that becauseI'm a fellow woman, and I just
can't hold back on thatstereotype because I am proof
for it. As female leaders, wehave a tendency to take care of
(25:13):
everybody else first, of ourfamilies, of our, you know, our
children, our mothers andfathers and sisters and aunties
and aunts and spouses and thenthe neighbors and the wider
community and then our team andour clients. And guess who is
the one person we constantlyforget about?
(25:35):
It is us.
Davina (25:37):
Mhmm.
Sylvie (25:38):
And there is a very simple leadership principle I
wanna share with you. If youdon't take care of yourself,
people don't assume that youhave the capability that you can
take care of them as well. Irepeat that for you. If you
(25:59):
don't take care of yourself,people don't believe that you
are a good leader and that youcan take care of themselves.
Davina (26:07):
That's very
Sylvie (26:07):
powerful leadership. Yeah. Very often starts with
yourself, with self leadershipand taking care of yourself, and
I know how how difficult thisis. Right. And I know how
overwhelming this can be.
But even if you don't do it foryourself first, think about the
impact it has on your leadershipand how much easier it could be
(26:33):
when your team members see youas somebody who really honors
yourself, respects yourself,takes care of yourself, invests
in yourself because then it'seasier to follow you as well.
Davina (26:48):
So there's a lot to unpack here. I wanna go back to
the authenticity part because Ithink a lot of people hide
behind this now, and they say,well, I was just being
authentic. I spoke that waybecause I was just being me.
This is how I talk. Right.
And if you were in a leadershiprole, you also need to think
(27:11):
about it's it's a communication.It's not just you getting to
it's not you at homeauthentically in your sweatpants
with your hair in a bun andpimple patches on your face or
whatever. Like, it's not off youwouldn't show up that way to a
corporate meeting. So also that,sometimes people will be brusque
(27:34):
or blunt or whatever, impatientor I I always encourage
directness because I think a lotof women are not direct enough
in their communication. They'retrying to soften and sweeten.
But sometimes people will saythings, and then they'll go,
well, that's just me. That's mebeing authentic. And there's the
danger because it's really notjust about you. It's about when
(27:55):
you're leading, it's reallyabout communication. All of
this, this image that you'retalking about is about
communicating with others.
Mhmm. And it's aboutrelationship. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Leadership.
Sylvie (28:05):
When you say it's about them, my response would be no
because you said it to a person.So it's also about that person.
It's not just about you. Right?Yeah.
Yeah. In my book, the image ofleadership, I describe or I have
a chapter where I have todescribe the common excuses that
you will have to face as aleader because this is kind of
(28:30):
the outlet for some of the teammembers to come up with excuses
to explain their own limitationsor capabilities. And, you just
shared one of them. Another oneis, well, we are in New Jersey
and not in Manhattan as ifprofessionalism would have a ZIP
code. Right?
Davina (28:52):
Right. Right.
Sylvie (28:54):
Or, what could be another one? Well, you know,
Mark Zuckerberg also made itwith a hoodie and now is a
multibillionaire. Yeah. But aslong as you didn't invent a
multibillion dollar company inyour garage or wherever, we are
not there yet to wear a hoodieat board meetings. And I have
(29:18):
seen Mark Zuckerberg more oftenin suits than you in hoodies
because whenever he neededmoney, he thought a suit is a
very good idea.
So you will constantly faceexcuses. And, I describe those
excuses and way to handle themin my book, but I also point out
that you can only address thoseexcuses with the confidence we
(29:41):
just did if you lead by exampleBecause you can't stand there in
your hoodie and point thingsout. Right? Like the last very
obvious example that I share. Soleading by it always starts with
leading by example.
Davina (29:56):
Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. I had a
conversation. This has been afew years ago with a client,
that I was coaching, and she'sshe would often show up. Now to
our meetings, our meetings canevery it's come as you are to
our meetings.
I I usually dress for mymeetings, and then I would have
clients show up and they'd havetheir hair in a ponytail. And
then I didn't put on makeuptoday or whatever. And I said,
(30:18):
it's okay. Like, for what we'redoing, it's private, and and
we're working with youindividually, and it's okay. But
I had a client say to me, shewould often exercise run, and
then she would come and shewould she was a lawyer, and she
would show up on virtualmeetings having just come from
working out.
And she told me, she says, Ifeel like my clients feel like
(30:42):
they can come any way that theywant to if they see me come any
way that I want to. And I have adifferent viewpoint of that.
Even though my clients come anyway they want to, I always
prepare. You know? I'm always Ialways my hair, my makeup, and,
you know, like, I'm not to thenines, but I am ready to gauge.
(31:05):
And and that is part of that ismy role as as leading this
conversation and leading whatwe're gonna discussing. As much
as I'm prepared with my thoughtsand what I'm doing, I'm also
prepared in appearance. And sosometimes I think we think to
ourselves we don't think ofourselves as being needing to be
(31:28):
a leader in a situation orperceived as that even when
we're not the the leader, so tospeak, showing up and saying
bringing your best self to thetable, whether that's appearance
or behavior or whatever, right,in professional. And every time
that I have slipped up and saidsomething that might be
authentic but might not beappropriate for the
(31:52):
conversation, it's come back tobite me. Somebody has called me
on it because there's anexpectation now of how I show
up.
Right? And I have to apologizeor or say, you know, right,
because I was being my authenticself, but maybe I was a little
too authentic in this situation.So it's not gonna be something
(32:12):
perfect, but it's something Ithink it's really about
mindfulness of Mindfulness.
Sylvie (32:16):
Of your Intention.
Davina (32:18):
Intention. Intention. Like, what is it that you want?
If you want the successfulcareer, you want and we see this
with we have a a lot of younglawyers who are coming out of
law school. February, they'vethey've passed you know, they've
taken the bar.
Now they're getting the results.And and they're coming out, and
they, are going into a workforceas who they authentically are.
(32:43):
And this is something where theymight want to think about, well,
how do I wanna be perceived bythese people that, you know, I'm
trying to work for? And I thinkwe're seeing a lot of them
saying, oh, I don't really needto impress these people. Yeah.
And there's a real change and ashift in the workplace as a
result of that.
Sylvie (33:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas What we need to accept, though,
especially not you, but somebodylike me from an older
generation, is that theworkplaces have shifted. Right?
The rules that we had years,years, years ago might not apply
anymore.
Those dress codes, for example,might not apply anymore. Now we
(33:24):
have, harder codes to follow,like digital footprint, social
media use, use of artificialintelligence. We have way bigger
problems than how people transitwork in Right. Some
organizations. But, the believeit or not, the pandemic has
(33:44):
really helped in this case.
It has really helped to create amore understanding that we all
aren't almost perfect. While youand I would probably not jump in
front of the camera for thisinterview in our workout close,
six, seven years ago, it wouldhave been barking outside.
(34:11):
Right?
Davina (34:12):
I didn't hear your dog barking, but I understand
Sylvie (34:14):
you're said, oh my god. She's so unprofessional. She has
a dog outside barking.
Davina (34:19):
It definitely has changed. It definitely has
changed.
Sylvie (34:21):
And during the pandemic, we all realized, oh, wow. We all
got a little bit grounded.Right? Grounded in our
expectations that we are allhumans, and we all have, you
know, some some things that arenot so perfect. But what I want
you to keep in mind is since youmentioned the decline in the rip
off clothes, there is a veryfamous study that proves a
(34:46):
concept called enclosedclothing, what impact clothes,
for example, have on yourself.
They tested doctors giving thema white lab coat or not and what
impact it had on their selfconfidence. And what's so just I
just would need it for myself.So even if you don't use it to
(35:07):
imprint on others, always thinkabout what could it do about
your self confidence, about yourself esteem, about your
charisma. When you look into themirror, when you see yourself,
what does it for you and howwill that ripple effect then go
out when you interact withothers?
Davina (35:27):
Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that I'm, clear too.
I'm not I'm using that as anexample of a changing
Sylvie (35:36):
Mhmm.
Davina (35:36):
Mindset. Yeah. I have another client who dances on a
she's an attorney, has her ownfirm, but she loves to dance.
She takes dance classes anddances, and it's a lot of sort
of hip hop style dancing and andsexy dancing and that kind of
thing. And she actually I wouldfirst of all, I I would never
(35:56):
put a picture of myself outdancing anywhere because it
would just be not good.
But but the thought there is atime where that would have been
a career ruiner. Mhmm.
Sylvie (36:06):
If
Davina (36:06):
if when I was coming up in a career working for other
people, if you were caught whensocial media first came out, if
you were posting pictures ofyourself out drinking and
partying, if you were postingyour pic pictures of yourself
dancing, you know, in sexy waysand things like that, that could
be a fireable offense because ofhow you were a reflection on the
(36:29):
company Mhmm. In terms of, youknow, this you we're a button
down. We're a trustworthy lawfirm. We're all of these. And if
you were you were told that yourbehavior outside of work was
captured on social mediareflects on the company, and you
might still see some of that.
Mhmm. But now as we're seeingmore in her particular case,
(36:51):
she's using that to show peoplea blended person, a whole
person. I'm this person, and I'malso the and I do these things.
And I'm a person like you, and Ihave the same I'm a young person
like you, and I have the sameconcerns you do. She talks a lot
about, prenups and money and allthese kinds of things, and she's
(37:13):
in the dating world.
And so it there is a shift inhow people show up in a business
environment today. And we have anew generation, new generations
who are thinking differently,and social media is a big part
of that. I know my social mediamanager's always wanting to show
(37:34):
me to show pictures of me athome doing things because I work
from home. And I'm like, like,it's so boring. You're gonna see
the same things over and overagain.
I did some video of me doingsome stuff, but I'm like,
really? This excites you. But itdid better than any other
content out there. Oh my god.There is there is a leadership.
And it's not about leadership.It's not about it's it is a but
(37:58):
it is dehumanizing.
Sylvie (38:00):
Yes. Yes.
Davina (38:01):
Right? Saying, okay. There's Divina in her
sweatshirt, and she's reading abook. She's barefooted reading a
book, and she does this at home.You know?
Like, so I see her as a personwho's like me. So it is really
interesting, the shiftingaspects of this sort of image.
Mhmm. And how image shows up,differently now than it did ten
(38:24):
years ago even.
Sylvie (38:25):
Yes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. May I quickly comment on two
things, Damina?
When I am on stage, I I wearquite outrageous outfits. You
know? I wanna be colorful. Iwanna stand out, and I would
describe it as rather unique,but intentionally unique. And my
(38:46):
social media team wanted me togive my audience a tour through
my wardrobe, through my closet.
And I said, why would anybody beinterested in it? Why? Why? I I
would rather share 10 tips aboutx y z. And guess which one was
the most successful video sofar?
Davina (39:07):
Closet. We all wanna see your closet. What's in there?
Sylvie (39:10):
That's right. But, in terms of the dancer, I'm gonna
add one extra layer on this. Iwould use it to her advantage
because it is what I call a fearadvantage. I wrote another book,
Discover Your Fair Advantage,where I help, business owners
(39:30):
discover their 15 unique sellingpoints. You know, what is unique
about them that nobody else inthe market has to offer?
And very often we are not awareabout those superpowers. And
secondly, we don't use them toour advantage. So if I would be
that lawyer with those beautifuldance moves, I would work on
(39:52):
something in my bio just as Icontrol the dance moves on the
dance floor, I will control atcourt, whatever. Right? Mhmm.
Bridge it somehow to your workthat they see, oh, wow. She's a
human being with that passion,which is beautiful. But there is
(40:14):
also a connection to it. Right.Right?
There is I
Davina (40:17):
think I think she's done a really good job of it. I've
been watching I've just been,you know, I've just been telling
her so for me as a coach, I'mlook I had to look at that and
say, okay. I'm this is not aboutme. This is about her and who
she is and wants to show up as.And she has done a beautiful job
(40:39):
of really bridging that andshowing people that the the the
that this is a part of her life,and she's a great attorney, and
she's also this.
And you can be, you know, youcan we we're all here in the
(41:01):
same generation dealing with thesame things, talking about and
she's also attracting her idealclients through that. So she's
communicating with people whoalso love the culture and the
dance and all of that. And she'sattracting those people who who
say, I relate to you. You I getyou. You're this creative,
(41:23):
artistic person.
And so she's gonna attract thosesame, types of people that she
is around, you know, that sheenjoys being around. And so I
think she's done a really goodjob, and she's done a good job.
And she talks a lot about moneyand, the importance of
(41:44):
prenuptial agreements to youngpeople and to as you're building
a life and you're inrelationships and all of that,
controlling your money andunderstanding how your, the life
of your money and how valuablethat is in you taking care of
yourself throughout your life.You know? So she's just done a
really good job in it.
(42:04):
And it's been enlightening forme to see because I'm coming
from a place of, oh my god. Younever you wouldn't take a
picture of yourself out at aparty with a an alcoholic
beverage in your hand. You wouldalways hide it if somebody was
taking a picture at a party. Andso it's it's quite interesting
to see somebody take that andactually roll it into part of
their brand and their marketing.
Sylvie (42:25):
And
Davina (42:25):
I'm seeing that a lot on social media with the, younger
lawyers. And I say youngermillennials and Gen z. So
millennials are in there aswell. And then those of us who
are older, I'm definitely Gen x,we're having to say having to
sort of say, well, this is areal world that I'm marketing in
now, and maybe I need to listento other people and say, what
(42:49):
what is it that people arewanting to see in terms of them
trusting me as a leader?
Sylvie (42:55):
Mhmm. You know? Balance is key. Balance is always key.
But, I have to tell you, Divina,I'm so impressed by your
perspectives.
The next time one of my flightsis delayed or canceled, can can
I, can I call you if you canjump in for me for for a
presentation or a keynote?Because I hope that I was even
(43:15):
able to share something. Youshare so many, amazing things
about this topic already.
Davina (43:21):
Uh-oh. I appreciate that. It is it is I I'm not the,
it's funny. I love the reason Ilove social media and podcasting
and video is that I don't haveto get dressed up any you don't
wanna you don't wanna tour of mycloset. Let's put it that way.
(43:41):
But I want to talk about beforewe end here, speaking of your
presentations, I wanna talkabout the world's first three d
immersive keynote speaker.You're the world's first three d
immersive keynote speaker. Tellme what that is and what that
was like.
Sylvie (43:57):
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You know,
I'm in the professional speakingarena since sixteen years now.
And, I always was unique in therate that I believe at this
point, audience have seen itall. A speaker coming in,
(44:18):
telling a few stories, adding afew slides, putting a few data
facts and figures out andleaving.
And the hardest job the hardestjob at a conference is being an
audience member. I sometimesforce myself to sit in the
audience, and then I realize howhard it is to sit there for a
(44:40):
day trial.
Davina (44:41):
To stay awake.
Sylvie (44:42):
To speaker from one speaker to the next speaker, and
it's almost the same formulawith a little bit of flavor here
or here or here. I truly believethat a keynote should be an
experience, not a presentation,something that they feel where
they are part of. And so Ialways was known for very
(45:05):
interactive methods that I used.But just before the pandemic, I
was at Cirque du Soleil. One ofmy clients was so kind to take
us to Cirque du Soleil after theconference, and all of a sudden,
I saw holographic coursesrunning across the stage.
And they came in as fast as theywere gone, and then they came
(45:26):
again. And it was they were soclear that it was not sure, are
they real or are they anillusion? And I started to
research then and quickly gotinto holography and thought if I
could use that method, possibly.But what always bothered me was
that holography is twodimensional. And then I thought,
(45:46):
if I just use holography, it'snothing more than fancier
slides.
Then I might have a ring next tome that somehow lit up, but I
could also have a lit up ring ona slide next to me. Right? And
so I worked really hard on thetechnology, researched the
entire world, found a team,combined it with a second team,
(46:11):
and it took us, two years untilwe developed all the animations
and all the technology in a waythat it could be
three-dimensional. So now when Igo on stage, there are no
slides. The room is dark, and Igo on stage and then imagine a
(46:31):
three-dimensional holographicbrain develops over me.
And rather than talking aboutthe series of decision making, I
take you into the brain and showyou which parts are engaged,
what is happening. I can move itaround. Or rather than talking
(46:52):
with you about the impact ofappearance on somebody, I
magically change my clothes onstage while while I present.
Wow.
Davina (47:03):
That's amazing.
Sylvie (47:04):
Rather than explaining to you what impact an accent
has, when you interact withothers and you communicate, all
of a sudden, my accent can begone, and I speak picture
perfect American English.
Davina (47:20):
Wow. Wow.
Sylvie (47:22):
So I use a lot of, technology to do some magic on
stage. And I think one of themost beautiful compliments I've
ever received was from abusiness bureau partner who
said, he measures the impact ofa speaker by sitting in the last
row. He always sits in the lastrow to see how many people are
(47:46):
on their phones. And he told mewhen the first ring came up,
hundreds of phones went up totake a picture, you know, to
capture the moment. And after awhile, they all went back, and
they were mesmerized for fortyfive minutes.
And he didn't see one phonelight up once because it's such
(48:08):
a new magic away. So yeah. Thatis amazing.
Davina (48:13):
That is amazing.
Sylvie (48:14):
And always grateful when clients trust me to bring that
magic to them.
Davina (48:18):
Yeah. What a what a talent. And to be able to and so
much work went into that. And Ilove that you brought other
people into that process withyou to you really led a movement
into sort of this changing wayof presenting. I I I bet it was
(48:39):
just amazing.
You you created your own Cirquedu Soleil.
Sylvie (48:42):
Yes. Yes. Yes. But if you are interested in speaking,
I don't want to discourage you.This is not what it takes
nowadays to get started.
I started sixteen years ago.Right? If
Davina (48:54):
You just got bored with it and wanted to
Sylvie (48:56):
change it up. Yeah. Yes. So if you are interested in
entering the beautiful world ofspeaking to share your message
with others, I still believethat nowadays you have to be
very unique to be successful. Imean, there are millions of
speakers out there, hundredthousands who probably speak
about the same topic like youspeak.
(49:17):
So you need at least a uniqueangle or a unique specific niche
topic or expertise, but thetimes of, the big grant and just
a motivational speaker are,unfortunately, gone because the
(49:40):
mark the market is soovercelerated by speakers that
in the meantime to stand out,you have to offer something
unique. It doesn't have to be athree d holographic Yeah. Right.
Right.
Davina (49:50):
Right. I think the you know, there's so many speakers
that through the years havecopied Steve Jobs. Whereas the
there's this sort of you know,we walk out on the dark stage,
and then we you know? And thenwhen he did it, it was a very
unique thing. And now, you know,or slide shows or things like
(50:10):
that.
You know? It is I think it is achallenge. I certainly am
finding it even with webinars.I've been creating webinars for
a long time now, and I'mactually about to meet with
somebody to talk about somethingmore innovative because Mhmm. I
think people are just thatthere's so much out there.
How do we stand out? And I Iappreciate all you've shared
today because I think even justgetting us to think about how
(50:34):
we're showing up and think aboutthe impact that's having on
other people with us has beenreally powerful. And I know
it'll get a lot of peoplethinking. I know a lot of people
are gonna love this episode, soI appreciate you being here.
Sylvie (50:49):
Thank you very much for having me, Donny. It was such a
pleasure talking with you. Thankyou for the very thoughtful
questions. And, again, youalways can only be as good as
the host is, and I reallyappreciate you asking so
interesting question and helpingme together with you serve your
audience. Thank you.
Thank you. We're also gonna haveall
Davina (51:09):
the links that you guys need to connect with Sylvie in
the show notes so you couldcheck those out. And I'll see
you guys again next week.Thanks, Sylvie.
Intro (51:18):
If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in
your business and your life,then you'll want to visit us at
wealthywomanlawyer.com to learnmore about how we help our
clients create wealth generatinglaw firms with ease.
Welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. What if
you could hang out withsuccessful women lawyers, ask
them about growing their firms,managing resources like time,
team, and systems, masteringmoney issues, and more. Then
take an insight or two to helpyou build a wealth generating
law firm. Each week, your host,Davina Frederick, takes an
(00:22):
in-depth look at how to thinklike a CEO, attract clients who
you love to serve and will payyou on time, and create a
profitable, sustainable firm youlove. Davina is founder and CEO
of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and hergoal is to give you the
information you need to scaleyour law firm business from 6 to
7 figures in gross annualrevenue so you can fully fund
(00:44):
and still have time to enjoy thelifestyle of your dreams.
Now here's Davina.
Davina (00:50):
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy
Woman Lawyer podcast. I'm yourhost, Divina Frederick, and my
guest today is Sylvie Digisto.Sylvie is an international
keynote speaker who bringsdecades of corporate expertise
and experience from Europe toher award winning presentations.
A former management consultantfor Fortune 100 companies, head
(01:11):
of a management academy, andchief of staff at Europe's
largest retail and tourismgroup, she has a deep
understanding of leadership,strategy, and performance. As
the world's first three dimmersive keynote speaker,
Sylvie helps organizationsenhance leadership, drive sales
success, and elevate brandreputation.
(01:32):
She is the author of a 10 partseries called The Image of
Leadership and Discover YourFair Advantage, and she empowers
professionals to lead better,sell faster, and persuade
instantly one intentional choiceat a time. So please join me in
welcoming Sylvie to the wealthywoman lawyer podcast. Hi,
Sylvie. Welcome. I'm so gladyou're here today on the wealthy
(01:54):
woman lawyer podcast.
Sylvie (01:56):
Davina, thank you very much for having me. I'm so
excited to be with you. Thankyou for inviting me to your
wonderful group and community.
Davina (02:04):
Oh, wonderful. I we are happy to have someone who's kind
of an international star on thespeaker stage. So, you're gonna
bring a lot of interestingflavor to our conversation
today, I think. So why don't youtell us I discussed in your bio
kind of your background, but whydon't you tell us how you work
with clients and what you howwhat you help them do?
Sylvie (02:27):
Mhmm. So I, myself, I have a long corporate career. I
was in the inside walls ofcorporations for more than
twenty years. And, even if youare a business owner, you might
understand or have observed thefrustration that I had for
twenty years. Very often, wehired people for vacant
(02:49):
positions in thoseorganizations.
And during the interviews, theysaid all the right things. They
behaved exactly the way wewanted them to behave. They even
looked the way we wanted them tolook. And then years later, due
to a total lack of performance,for example, we had to fire them
and let them go. And so I wasalways frustrated, between or
(03:11):
about the gap between how weperceived people and how they
actually turned out.
And then on the other hand, wehad so many young and ambitious
and, you know, passionateprofessionals in that
organization. And I wondered whydidn't they stand out to us as
potential candidates. Why didn'twe hire them for those
(03:31):
positions? And I figured, well,they didn't position themselves
and present themselves to us asdecision makers, as potential
candidates as well. And so outof that frustration and learning
on the both sides, when mylifelong dream came true to move
to The United States, I leftbehind my corporate career,
(03:53):
changed the sides, and went onthe speaking side and thought
that I share not just what Ihave learned about leadership,
perception, decision making,customer interaction, sales
during my corporate career, butalso what I, until then and till
today, have studied aboutdecision making process,
(04:15):
perception, unconscious biases,how we are influenced by first
and lasting present perceptions,and impressions.
And that is what I am sofortunate to do, to speak at
conferences and conventions andshare insights with leaders and
professionals and businessowners about how they are
perceived by the world and whatimpact that perception has on a
(04:40):
decision making process ofothers.
Davina (04:43):
That's so fascinating because we don't often think of
how we we know who we are in ourown mind and what our what our
heart is and what we think we'rehere for and what we but often,
we don't think about how we'rebeing perceived by others in
certain environments. Right? Sowe may know how we're perceived
(05:05):
by others that we know well. Butwhen we're going into work
environment, we not we we maynot be intentionally saying, how
can I intentionally be perceivedthe way that I want to be
perceived? Right?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Sylvie (05:19):
Absolutely. I'm just thinking you could give my
keynote because I talk all aboutintention by intentionally
crafting the way that you areperceived. But truth to be told
is, first, it's always startingwith you because we are all
unique. Right? Davina, you wouldlike to be perceived in a way
(05:40):
that I wouldn't like to beperceived and vice versa, and
that is good.
So so I always encouragebusiness owners and
professionals to first definehow they would like to perceive
themselves and what imprint theyactually would like to make on
others. And you know there arelawyers out there who wants to
(06:01):
imprint on others that they aretrustworthy, but there are also
lawyers who want to imprint onothers that they are innovative
and others creative and othersmaybe funny. Right? Right. And
all those lawyers appear andbehave and communicate
differently.
And so you have already toolsavailable that you can shape
(06:23):
your perception. But, and here'sthe but that many forget, your
customers and clients, they haveexpectations. And you also must
analyze those expectationsbecause, yes, the funny lawyer,
it is great that they areauthentically funny. But if that
(06:44):
is not the expectation of thatone client you are interacting
with that in that moment, thenit has an impact on the decision
making process. And I haveasked, in my own research around
24,000 people during the lastyears about random professions.
I asked them, what is yourexpectation for the picture
(07:07):
perfect teacher? What is yourexpectation for the picture
perfect police officer? What isyour expectation? Different
professions. And I let you guessnow what is the number one word
that comes to mind when the24,000 people that I researched
when I asked them, what is yourexpectation when you think of
the picture perfect interactionwith a lawyer?
(07:30):
What do you think, Davina, isthe number one word that
Davina (07:33):
you picture perfect lawyer? I would think it would
be trustworthiness or integrity,something like that.
Sylvie (07:38):
Again again, you could give my keynote.
Davina (07:43):
Finally, I have a plan I could except for my stage
fright. So, no, I could not giveyou a keynote. But
Sylvie (07:50):
The the number one word is trust. That is interesting.
Yeah. The number two word iscare. They want to
Davina (07:58):
see A lot of lawyers would be shocked by that. Yeah.
Sylvie (08:02):
And the number three word is attention to detail.
Very surprising. Right? On theone hand, on the other, you know
as a lawyer how much you have todig into the detail because your
clients don't want to and cannot. So you need to ask yourself
not just how you areauthentically yourself, but also
(08:26):
what are the expectations forthe clientele you work with.
And depending on the type of lawyou're working Right. Or even
depending on the location youare based in, on on the cultural
circumstances, those words mightbe different. And then it's up
to you if you're with intentioncraft an appearance, a behavior,
(08:49):
communication that fulfills bothsides or not.
Davina (08:54):
Yeah. Yeah. I talk with my clients often about you know,
core values is something thatpeople throw around, and they
say, oh, we have to do our corevalues, homework, or whatever.
When I'm talking to my clients,I'm talking to them about their
well, most of them are startingfirms. So they are, even as
they're growing it, it's theircore values as a person that is
(09:17):
that we want to show up in ourfirm.
And it and one of the things wetalk about is how do we take
that core value, that sort ofesoteric and a and a concept,
and how do we make it concrete?How does that core value show up
in your business? So
Sylvie (09:36):
Mhmm.
Davina (09:37):
One of the things you we talk about trustworthiness.
Right? How does trustworthy showup? What actions are we taking
as a law firm? What arereceptionists is doing?
What are client care specialistsdoing? What are paralegals
doing? What are our associateattorneys doing that convey
trustworthy behavior to ourclients and give them that
(09:58):
comfort level? So it's a verytangible sort of thing. Mhmm.
Is that something that you whenyou're talking about this image
that we're crafting, is thatsomething we're looking at doing
is looking for concrete.
Sylvie (10:09):
I offer my clients a framework to do exactly that
with themselves, but also withtheir teams along every single
touch point that they have withcustomers. And when I work with
them through that framework, Iwant them to look into five
areas, which I very simply callthe a, b, c, d, e. The a stands
(10:32):
for their appearance. Like it ornot, humans are visual
creatures. Our brains actuallydon't like to work.
That's why they take a shortcutthrough our eyes. And people
just look at you as a lawyer oras somebody from a team of
lawyers, and they think theyknow something about you by the
(10:54):
way you look. Your body image,your clothes, the cuts, the fit,
the colors, the quality, yourhair, your makeup, your
accessories, the entire visualpicture that you paint in those
interactions. Now this is notabout, looking always trendy or
looking always, like, a millionbucks, but you need to be aware
(11:17):
that your visual appearance isthe first impression that you
make on them because very oftenyou don't even speak a word.
Right?
They just see you and they thinkthat they know something about
you. We know that, for example,in the first seven seconds, our
brain makes up to 11 majordecisions about somebody else.
(11:38):
And so ask yourself, in ourappearance, myself and every
single team member's appearance,do we showcase trust? How does
trust look like according to usas a brand, as an organization.
Right?
No. That doesn't have to bealmost a boring, charcoal gray
(12:00):
suit. You know, there arevariations of trust, But how
does it look like for us? How dowe like to show up in person or
on our pictures on the website?How does it look like?
The second is the b for thebehavior. Trust shows up in
behavior. Your attitude. Do youhave charisma trustworthy
(12:23):
charisma when you walk into aroom? How about your emotional
intelligence?
How about your morals andethics? How about the things,
the decisions that you make whennobody is watching? How about
your conflict management skills?How in those all those
behavioral interactions can youshow that people instantly can
(12:46):
trust you? And then there is thec for communication.
Surprisingly, I will say thefirst part or the most important
part about communication isactually not talking, not
speaking. It doesn't include anywords. It's listening. How good
of a listener are you whenpotential clients reach out to
(13:07):
you or the or in theconversations that you have with
them on a case? And then yourbody speaks too.
Does it speak trust all thetime? Your facial expressions,
your body language, andobviously the words that you
choose, the language palette,the word patterns, the tone of
(13:28):
your voice. Does it all saytrust? Another is the d, and I
want you to be especially awareof the d because it has become
so tremendously important alsoor in particular in your
industry, and that is yourdigital footprint. The most
(13:48):
interactions we don't have inperson anymore.
We have them in some sort ofdigital way. The emails that you
send out, do they signal trustevery single time with beginning
with the subject line, beginningwith who you put on into the two
field, into the cc field, yourgrandma, your signature? Does it
(14:09):
all say trust? And alwaysremember those emails can get
forwarded and forwarded andforwarded it to people you don't
even know somebody is readingyour email right now that wasn't
meant for them. Your socialmedia.
What if you Google your name?Now you might think, well, I
have my website for my law firm.They should go there, not on my
(14:31):
Facebook profile. But this isnot how people think. They
research your name and they lookat everything that they find.
Does everything they find on youonline communicate trust the
virtual meetings that you haveand then there is the e Let look
(14:52):
yourself and let your team lookinto your environment. And with
that, I mean your physicalenvironment and your social
environment. The physicalenvironment, your office. If
somebody would come into youroffice, does it say trust
instantly? Or your socialenvironment, and this is very
often one of the mostunderestimated ones.
(15:15):
The people you hang out with,the people you surround yourself
with, your friends, your family,your network, what they post on
social media, does they saytrust? Right? They might tag
you. They might comment on yourposts. And people take all of
that into consideration whenthey create a perception about
(15:35):
you.
So to make those thingstangible, look into your and
your team's appearance,behavior, communication, digital
footprint, and environment, andcheck if the words that you want
to imprint as a brand and withyour values on others really are
(15:56):
applied in the way that peopleactually can instantly feel it
subconsciously.
Davina (16:02):
That's that is that's a wonderful way to categorize
that. Do does anybody ever tellyou that feels very
overwhelming?
Sylvie (16:13):
Yes. Yes. But here's the thing. You know, your image is a
puzzle. It's a puzzle ofmillions of pieces that you have
to put together every singleday, and you're going to make
mistake.
You can't please everybody. Youcan't always imprint positively
exactly what you want. I makemistake every single day. Right?
(16:37):
I am not in control of all theminds around me, but here's what
I always say.
If you don't at least try totake control of it, somebody
else will. Because your brand isnot what's on your website. It's
not your logo. It's not what youput out there. Your brand is
what people feel and say behindyour back.
Davina (17:03):
Right. Right.
Sylvie (17:05):
And so we we never really know what our image
really is because nobody istelling us. Even if you ask your
team members, your community,your boss, or whoever you're
gonna ask, Even if they respondwith words, those words are
heavily influenced by therelationship those people have
to you. So even if they wouldlike to, they just can't tell
(17:28):
you the truth anymore. So inthat big piece of puzzle, in
that big puzzle, all thosemillions of pieces, no, it's
overwhelming. You can't controlall of them.
But by intentionally controllingmany of them, you're already
doing much better than others.And Right. You've been just
(17:49):
trying
Davina (17:49):
to wing it. Yes. Yeah. Every because people bring
themselves to the conversationtoo. If somebody has an opinion
about me based on what I put outthere, what my brand is, and
they don't know me and they'regoing based on what they see.
They're also bringing their ownfilter to the conversation. And
so it really can't be about you.It's not really about pleasing
(18:12):
everyone as much as it issaying, is is the message I'm
putting out into the world inalignment with who I want to be
as a person? That kind of thing.Right?
So you have written extensively.You have a series of books that
you've written about the imageof leadership. And I wanna talk
specifically about leadership.We've talked a lot about sort of
(18:35):
lawyers and and, you know, trustbeing that dominant
characteristic people arelooking for, but a lot of our
listeners are building their ownlaw firms. And one of the things
that has been a challenge andone of the things I'm often
talking with them about is justbecause you hire people doesn't
mean that you automatically knowhow to be a leader to those
(18:57):
people.
And I think we sort ofautomatically think I'm building
this business. I'm hiringpeople, and it's real simple.
These are the clients. This isthe work we're doing, and you're
gonna come in, and we're gonnaget the work done, and we're
gonna focus on that. We're gonnahave no drama environment.
And then they're surprised whenthey start having all these sort
of personnel issues. They'rehiring people who who turn out
not to be the right fit.
Sylvie (19:18):
Yeah.
Davina (19:19):
Our people change and leave and do their own thing.
And then they're left sittinghere going, what's wrong with
me? I'm hiring the wrong people.Or everybody's gonna see this
high turnover. And oftentimes,they're not looking inward and
saying, where are my skills as aleader lacking because I haven't
(19:40):
invested in sort of developingthese skills.
Mhmm. So talk to me about sortof the image of a leader and
what people expect in a leader,and does that vary based on
whether it's in business orsocially or politically or or
whatever?
Sylvie (19:58):
Well, first, if I may comment on the hiring issue that
you just described, this isvery, very common for everyone
who has ever built a business.And here is one recommendation
that I, I may share with you ifyou are in that situation. And
this is don't hire for skills.Don't hire for skills how you
(20:22):
hire for values. Look into theperson's values.
The skills is always somethingyou can train them later. Look
out for their natural talentsrather than, if that is possible
in your field, thecertifications that they might
have. Right? So I think, skillsis something nowadays you can
(20:44):
learn so easily. You can providethem with so many tools even for
free sometimes for some of theskills that, you shouldn't hire
for skills anymore.
You should hire for values. Findthe right people with the right
values, and you will minimizethe issues you will have hiring
(21:05):
the wrong people. The second, asa leader, one of my most
important core principles that Ishare is no matter if you're in
a corporation or a businessowner, you have to lead by
example twenty four seven. Theylook at you and they follow the
(21:25):
standards that you set. And sovery often we are not aware so
much of how we are doing things,how we are appearing, how we are
behaving, how we arecommunicating because I call it
the CEODCs.
The longer we do our job and themore successful we are and the
(21:49):
higher we have climbed thecareer ladder, the less self
aware we become. We we wouldwish that we are more self
aware, but the reality isn'tthere's a lot of science out
there that proof that The thelonger we do things, the higher
we climb, but the moresuccessful we are, the less self
we are we are because the morewe are convinced that what we
(22:12):
are doing is right and correct,and the less we get outside
feedback because people aredependent on you. They have, you
know, they have a codependentrelationship. So why should they
really tell you the truth if youare the firm owner? So you need
to step back and double checkevery time, how do I appear, how
(22:34):
do I behave, how do Icommunicate, because that sets
the standard in my team.
They are subconsciously watchingyou, and you are setting the
tone. You are setting thestandard. You can't expect more
from them than they see youapplying every single day. And
(22:55):
then, you know, the mostoverused word in leadership, in
my opinion, is authenticity. Youwill hear so many speakers
walking on stages and say, youyou just do you.
Right? As a leader, it'simportant that you are
authentic. And I think thatauthenticity in the way it is
(23:22):
shared with us is a lie. We allplay roles. Every single day, I
play roles, you play roles,Davina.
I play a role as a mother of twowonderful children. I play a
role as a wife to my househusband. I play a different role
as a speaker on stage. I play adifferent role as the business
(23:46):
owner at home to my team. I playa different role as a volunteer
to my community.
Yes. In those roles, I'mauthentic, but it has a
different hue. It has adifferent flavor. I can't speak
to my children the same way likeI speak to my clients. And just
(24:07):
imagine I would speak to myhusband the same way I would
speak like I speak to my teamand vice versa.
Right. Right. So while youshould have a clear red thread,
which usually are our corevalues, make sure that you have
clearly defined for you how thatauthentic leader role looks like
(24:31):
for you. Where are theboundaries? Where does it start?
Where does it end? And how doyou fulfill that role before you
go home and become a motheragain or a wife again or you
become the volunteer in thecommunity because that leader
role looks, behave, andcommunicates online and offline
(24:52):
quite differently, although it'sthe same person. And the last
one, and I'm saying that becauseI'm a fellow woman, and I just
can't hold back on thatstereotype because I am proof
for it. As female leaders, wehave a tendency to take care of
(25:13):
everybody else first, of ourfamilies, of our, you know, our
children, our mothers andfathers and sisters and aunties
and aunts and spouses and thenthe neighbors and the wider
community and then our team andour clients. And guess who is
the one person we constantlyforget about?
(25:35):
It is us.
Davina (25:37):
Mhmm.
Sylvie (25:38):
And there is a very simple leadership principle I
wanna share with you. If youdon't take care of yourself,
people don't assume that youhave the capability that you can
take care of them as well. Irepeat that for you. If you
(25:59):
don't take care of yourself,people don't believe that you
are a good leader and that youcan take care of themselves.
Davina (26:07):
That's very
Sylvie (26:07):
powerful leadership. Yeah. Very often starts with
yourself, with self leadershipand taking care of yourself, and
I know how how difficult thisis. Right. And I know how
overwhelming this can be.
But even if you don't do it foryourself first, think about the
impact it has on your leadershipand how much easier it could be
(26:33):
when your team members see youas somebody who really honors
yourself, respects yourself,takes care of yourself, invests
in yourself because then it'seasier to follow you as well.
Davina (26:48):
So there's a lot to unpack here. I wanna go back to
the authenticity part because Ithink a lot of people hide
behind this now, and they say,well, I was just being
authentic. I spoke that waybecause I was just being me.
This is how I talk. Right.
And if you were in a leadershiprole, you also need to think
(27:11):
about it's it's a communication.It's not just you getting to
it's not you at homeauthentically in your sweatpants
with your hair in a bun andpimple patches on your face or
whatever. Like, it's not off youwouldn't show up that way to a
corporate meeting. So also that,sometimes people will be brusque
(27:34):
or blunt or whatever, impatientor I I always encourage
directness because I think a lotof women are not direct enough
in their communication. They'retrying to soften and sweeten.
But sometimes people will saythings, and then they'll go,
well, that's just me. That's mebeing authentic. And there's the
danger because it's really notjust about you. It's about when
(27:55):
you're leading, it's reallyabout communication. All of
this, this image that you'retalking about is about
communicating with others.
Mhmm. And it's aboutrelationship. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Leadership.
Sylvie (28:05):
When you say it's about them, my response would be no
because you said it to a person.So it's also about that person.
It's not just about you. Right?Yeah.
Yeah. In my book, the image ofleadership, I describe or I have
a chapter where I have todescribe the common excuses that
you will have to face as aleader because this is kind of
(28:30):
the outlet for some of the teammembers to come up with excuses
to explain their own limitationsor capabilities. And, you just
shared one of them. Another oneis, well, we are in New Jersey
and not in Manhattan as ifprofessionalism would have a ZIP
code. Right?
Davina (28:52):
Right. Right.
Sylvie (28:54):
Or, what could be another one? Well, you know,
Mark Zuckerberg also made itwith a hoodie and now is a
multibillionaire. Yeah. But aslong as you didn't invent a
multibillion dollar company inyour garage or wherever, we are
not there yet to wear a hoodieat board meetings. And I have
(29:18):
seen Mark Zuckerberg more oftenin suits than you in hoodies
because whenever he neededmoney, he thought a suit is a
very good idea.
So you will constantly faceexcuses. And, I describe those
excuses and way to handle themin my book, but I also point out
that you can only address thoseexcuses with the confidence we
(29:41):
just did if you lead by exampleBecause you can't stand there in
your hoodie and point thingsout. Right? Like the last very
obvious example that I share. Soleading by it always starts with
leading by example.
Davina (29:56):
Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. I had a
conversation. This has been afew years ago with a client,
that I was coaching, and she'sshe would often show up. Now to
our meetings, our meetings canevery it's come as you are to
our meetings.
I I usually dress for mymeetings, and then I would have
clients show up and they'd havetheir hair in a ponytail. And
then I didn't put on makeuptoday or whatever. And I said,
(30:18):
it's okay. Like, for what we'redoing, it's private, and and
we're working with youindividually, and it's okay. But
I had a client say to me, shewould often exercise run, and
then she would come and shewould she was a lawyer, and she
would show up on virtualmeetings having just come from
working out.
And she told me, she says, Ifeel like my clients feel like
(30:42):
they can come any way that theywant to if they see me come any
way that I want to. And I have adifferent viewpoint of that.
Even though my clients come anyway they want to, I always
prepare. You know? I'm always Ialways my hair, my makeup, and,
you know, like, I'm not to thenines, but I am ready to gauge.
(31:05):
And and that is part of that ismy role as as leading this
conversation and leading whatwe're gonna discussing. As much
as I'm prepared with my thoughtsand what I'm doing, I'm also
prepared in appearance. And sosometimes I think we think to
ourselves we don't think ofourselves as being needing to be
(31:28):
a leader in a situation orperceived as that even when
we're not the the leader, so tospeak, showing up and saying
bringing your best self to thetable, whether that's appearance
or behavior or whatever, right,in professional. And every time
that I have slipped up and saidsomething that might be
authentic but might not beappropriate for the
(31:52):
conversation, it's come back tobite me. Somebody has called me
on it because there's anexpectation now of how I show
up.
Right? And I have to apologizeor or say, you know, right,
because I was being my authenticself, but maybe I was a little
too authentic in this situation.So it's not gonna be something
(32:12):
perfect, but it's something Ithink it's really about
mindfulness of Mindfulness.
Sylvie (32:16):
Of your Intention.
Davina (32:18):
Intention. Intention. Like, what is it that you want?
If you want the successfulcareer, you want and we see this
with we have a a lot of younglawyers who are coming out of
law school. February, they'vethey've passed you know, they've
taken the bar.
Now they're getting the results.And and they're coming out, and
they, are going into a workforceas who they authentically are.
(32:43):
And this is something where theymight want to think about, well,
how do I wanna be perceived bythese people that, you know, I'm
trying to work for? And I thinkwe're seeing a lot of them
saying, oh, I don't really needto impress these people. Yeah.
And there's a real change and ashift in the workplace as a
result of that.
Sylvie (33:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas What we need to accept, though,
especially not you, but somebodylike me from an older
generation, is that theworkplaces have shifted. Right?
The rules that we had years,years, years ago might not apply
anymore.
Those dress codes, for example,might not apply anymore. Now we
(33:24):
have, harder codes to follow,like digital footprint, social
media use, use of artificialintelligence. We have way bigger
problems than how people transitwork in Right. Some
organizations. But, the believeit or not, the pandemic has
(33:44):
really helped in this case.
It has really helped to create amore understanding that we all
aren't almost perfect. While youand I would probably not jump in
front of the camera for thisinterview in our workout close,
six, seven years ago, it wouldhave been barking outside.
(34:11):
Right?
Davina (34:12):
I didn't hear your dog barking, but I understand
Sylvie (34:14):
you're said, oh my god. She's so unprofessional. She has
a dog outside barking.
Davina (34:19):
It definitely has changed. It definitely has
changed.
Sylvie (34:21):
And during the pandemic, we all realized, oh, wow. We all
got a little bit grounded.Right? Grounded in our
expectations that we are allhumans, and we all have, you
know, some some things that arenot so perfect. But what I want
you to keep in mind is since youmentioned the decline in the rip
off clothes, there is a veryfamous study that proves a
(34:46):
concept called enclosedclothing, what impact clothes,
for example, have on yourself.
They tested doctors giving thema white lab coat or not and what
impact it had on their selfconfidence. And what's so just I
just would need it for myself.So even if you don't use it to
(35:07):
imprint on others, always thinkabout what could it do about
your self confidence, about yourself esteem, about your
charisma. When you look into themirror, when you see yourself,
what does it for you and howwill that ripple effect then go
out when you interact withothers?
Davina (35:27):
Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that I'm, clear too.
I'm not I'm using that as anexample of a changing
Sylvie (35:36):
Mhmm.
Davina (35:36):
Mindset. Yeah. I have another client who dances on a
she's an attorney, has her ownfirm, but she loves to dance.
She takes dance classes anddances, and it's a lot of sort
of hip hop style dancing and andsexy dancing and that kind of
thing. And she actually I wouldfirst of all, I I would never
(35:56):
put a picture of myself outdancing anywhere because it
would just be not good.
But but the thought there is atime where that would have been
a career ruiner. Mhmm.
Sylvie (36:06):
If
Davina (36:06):
if when I was coming up in a career working for other
people, if you were caught whensocial media first came out, if
you were posting pictures ofyourself out drinking and
partying, if you were postingyour pic pictures of yourself
dancing, you know, in sexy waysand things like that, that could
be a fireable offense because ofhow you were a reflection on the
(36:29):
company Mhmm. In terms of, youknow, this you we're a button
down. We're a trustworthy lawfirm. We're all of these. And if
you were you were told that yourbehavior outside of work was
captured on social mediareflects on the company, and you
might still see some of that.
Mhmm. But now as we're seeingmore in her particular case,
(36:51):
she's using that to show peoplea blended person, a whole
person. I'm this person, and I'malso the and I do these things.
And I'm a person like you, and Ihave the same I'm a young person
like you, and I have the sameconcerns you do. She talks a lot
about, prenups and money and allthese kinds of things, and she's
(37:13):
in the dating world.
And so it there is a shift inhow people show up in a business
environment today. And we have anew generation, new generations
who are thinking differently,and social media is a big part
of that. I know my social mediamanager's always wanting to show
(37:34):
me to show pictures of me athome doing things because I work
from home. And I'm like, like,it's so boring. You're gonna see
the same things over and overagain.
I did some video of me doingsome stuff, but I'm like,
really? This excites you. But itdid better than any other
content out there. Oh my god.There is there is a leadership.
And it's not about leadership.It's not about it's it is a but
(37:58):
it is dehumanizing.
Sylvie (38:00):
Yes. Yes.
Davina (38:01):
Right? Saying, okay. There's Divina in her
sweatshirt, and she's reading abook. She's barefooted reading a
book, and she does this at home.You know?
Like, so I see her as a personwho's like me. So it is really
interesting, the shiftingaspects of this sort of image.
Mhmm. And how image shows up,differently now than it did ten
(38:24):
years ago even.
Sylvie (38:25):
Yes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. May I quickly comment on two
things, Damina?
When I am on stage, I I wearquite outrageous outfits. You
know? I wanna be colorful. Iwanna stand out, and I would
describe it as rather unique,but intentionally unique. And my
(38:46):
social media team wanted me togive my audience a tour through
my wardrobe, through my closet.
And I said, why would anybody beinterested in it? Why? Why? I I
would rather share 10 tips aboutx y z. And guess which one was
the most successful video sofar?
Davina (39:07):
Closet. We all wanna see your closet. What's in there?
Sylvie (39:10):
That's right. But, in terms of the dancer, I'm gonna
add one extra layer on this. Iwould use it to her advantage
because it is what I call a fearadvantage. I wrote another book,
Discover Your Fair Advantage,where I help, business owners
(39:30):
discover their 15 unique sellingpoints. You know, what is unique
about them that nobody else inthe market has to offer?
And very often we are not awareabout those superpowers. And
secondly, we don't use them toour advantage. So if I would be
that lawyer with those beautifuldance moves, I would work on
(39:52):
something in my bio just as Icontrol the dance moves on the
dance floor, I will control atcourt, whatever. Right? Mhmm.
Bridge it somehow to your workthat they see, oh, wow. She's a
human being with that passion,which is beautiful. But there is
(40:14):
also a connection to it. Right.Right?
There is I
Davina (40:17):
think I think she's done a really good job of it. I've
been watching I've just been,you know, I've just been telling
her so for me as a coach, I'mlook I had to look at that and
say, okay. I'm this is not aboutme. This is about her and who
she is and wants to show up as.And she has done a beautiful job
(40:39):
of really bridging that andshowing people that the the the
that this is a part of her life,and she's a great attorney, and
she's also this.
And you can be, you know, youcan we we're all here in the
(41:01):
same generation dealing with thesame things, talking about and
she's also attracting her idealclients through that. So she's
communicating with people whoalso love the culture and the
dance and all of that. And she'sattracting those people who who
say, I relate to you. You I getyou. You're this creative,
(41:23):
artistic person.
And so she's gonna attract thosesame, types of people that she
is around, you know, that sheenjoys being around. And so I
think she's done a really goodjob, and she's done a good job.
And she talks a lot about moneyand, the importance of
(41:44):
prenuptial agreements to youngpeople and to as you're building
a life and you're inrelationships and all of that,
controlling your money andunderstanding how your, the life
of your money and how valuablethat is in you taking care of
yourself throughout your life.You know? So she's just done a
really good job in it.
(42:04):
And it's been enlightening forme to see because I'm coming
from a place of, oh my god. Younever you wouldn't take a
picture of yourself out at aparty with a an alcoholic
beverage in your hand. You wouldalways hide it if somebody was
taking a picture at a party. Andso it's it's quite interesting
to see somebody take that andactually roll it into part of
their brand and their marketing.
Sylvie (42:25):
And
Davina (42:25):
I'm seeing that a lot on social media with the, younger
lawyers. And I say youngermillennials and Gen z. So
millennials are in there aswell. And then those of us who
are older, I'm definitely Gen x,we're having to say having to
sort of say, well, this is areal world that I'm marketing in
now, and maybe I need to listento other people and say, what
(42:49):
what is it that people arewanting to see in terms of them
trusting me as a leader?
Sylvie (42:55):
Mhmm. You know? Balance is key. Balance is always key.
But, I have to tell you, Divina,I'm so impressed by your
perspectives.
The next time one of my flightsis delayed or canceled, can can
I, can I call you if you canjump in for me for for a
presentation or a keynote?Because I hope that I was even
(43:15):
able to share something. Youshare so many, amazing things
about this topic already.
Davina (43:21):
Uh-oh. I appreciate that. It is it is I I'm not the,
it's funny. I love the reason Ilove social media and podcasting
and video is that I don't haveto get dressed up any you don't
wanna you don't wanna tour of mycloset. Let's put it that way.
(43:41):
But I want to talk about beforewe end here, speaking of your
presentations, I wanna talkabout the world's first three d
immersive keynote speaker.You're the world's first three d
immersive keynote speaker. Tellme what that is and what that
was like.
Sylvie (43:57):
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You know,
I'm in the professional speakingarena since sixteen years now.
And, I always was unique in therate that I believe at this
point, audience have seen itall. A speaker coming in,
(44:18):
telling a few stories, adding afew slides, putting a few data
facts and figures out andleaving.
And the hardest job the hardestjob at a conference is being an
audience member. I sometimesforce myself to sit in the
audience, and then I realize howhard it is to sit there for a
(44:40):
day trial.
Davina (44:41):
To stay awake.
Sylvie (44:42):
To speaker from one speaker to the next speaker, and
it's almost the same formulawith a little bit of flavor here
or here or here. I truly believethat a keynote should be an
experience, not a presentation,something that they feel where
they are part of. And so Ialways was known for very
(45:05):
interactive methods that I used.But just before the pandemic, I
was at Cirque du Soleil. One ofmy clients was so kind to take
us to Cirque du Soleil after theconference, and all of a sudden,
I saw holographic coursesrunning across the stage.
And they came in as fast as theywere gone, and then they came
(45:26):
again. And it was they were soclear that it was not sure, are
they real or are they anillusion? And I started to
research then and quickly gotinto holography and thought if I
could use that method, possibly.But what always bothered me was
that holography is twodimensional. And then I thought,
(45:46):
if I just use holography, it'snothing more than fancier
slides.
Then I might have a ring next tome that somehow lit up, but I
could also have a lit up ring ona slide next to me. Right? And
so I worked really hard on thetechnology, researched the
entire world, found a team,combined it with a second team,
(46:11):
and it took us, two years untilwe developed all the animations
and all the technology in a waythat it could be
three-dimensional. So now when Igo on stage, there are no
slides. The room is dark, and Igo on stage and then imagine a
(46:31):
three-dimensional holographicbrain develops over me.
And rather than talking aboutthe series of decision making, I
take you into the brain and showyou which parts are engaged,
what is happening. I can move itaround. Or rather than talking
(46:52):
with you about the impact ofappearance on somebody, I
magically change my clothes onstage while while I present.
Wow.
Davina (47:03):
That's amazing.
Sylvie (47:04):
Rather than explaining to you what impact an accent
has, when you interact withothers and you communicate, all
of a sudden, my accent can begone, and I speak picture
perfect American English.
Davina (47:20):
Wow. Wow.
Sylvie (47:22):
So I use a lot of, technology to do some magic on
stage. And I think one of themost beautiful compliments I've
ever received was from abusiness bureau partner who
said, he measures the impact ofa speaker by sitting in the last
row. He always sits in the lastrow to see how many people are
(47:46):
on their phones. And he told mewhen the first ring came up,
hundreds of phones went up totake a picture, you know, to
capture the moment. And after awhile, they all went back, and
they were mesmerized for fortyfive minutes.
And he didn't see one phonelight up once because it's such
(48:08):
a new magic away. So yeah. Thatis amazing.
Davina (48:13):
That is amazing.
Sylvie (48:14):
And always grateful when clients trust me to bring that
magic to them.
Davina (48:18):
Yeah. What a what a talent. And to be able to and so
much work went into that. And Ilove that you brought other
people into that process withyou to you really led a movement
into sort of this changing wayof presenting. I I I bet it was
(48:39):
just amazing.
You you created your own Cirquedu Soleil.
Sylvie (48:42):
Yes. Yes. Yes. But if you are interested in speaking,
I don't want to discourage you.This is not what it takes
nowadays to get started.
I started sixteen years ago.Right? If
Davina (48:54):
You just got bored with it and wanted to
Sylvie (48:56):
change it up. Yeah. Yes. So if you are interested in
entering the beautiful world ofspeaking to share your message
with others, I still believethat nowadays you have to be
very unique to be successful. Imean, there are millions of
speakers out there, hundredthousands who probably speak
about the same topic like youspeak.
(49:17):
So you need at least a uniqueangle or a unique specific niche
topic or expertise, but thetimes of, the big grant and just
a motivational speaker are,unfortunately, gone because the
(49:40):
mark the market is soovercelerated by speakers that
in the meantime to stand out,you have to offer something
unique. It doesn't have to be athree d holographic Yeah. Right.
Right.
Davina (49:50):
Right. I think the you know, there's so many speakers
that through the years havecopied Steve Jobs. Whereas the
there's this sort of you know,we walk out on the dark stage,
and then we you know? And thenwhen he did it, it was a very
unique thing. And now, you know,or slide shows or things like
(50:10):
that.
You know? It is I think it is achallenge. I certainly am
finding it even with webinars.I've been creating webinars for
a long time now, and I'mactually about to meet with
somebody to talk about somethingmore innovative because Mhmm. I
think people are just thatthere's so much out there.
How do we stand out? And I Iappreciate all you've shared
today because I think even justgetting us to think about how
(50:34):
we're showing up and think aboutthe impact that's having on
other people with us has beenreally powerful. And I know
it'll get a lot of peoplethinking. I know a lot of people
are gonna love this episode, soI appreciate you being here.
Sylvie (50:49):
Thank you very much for having me, Donny. It was such a
pleasure talking with you. Thankyou for the very thoughtful
questions. And, again, youalways can only be as good as
the host is, and I reallyappreciate you asking so
interesting question and helpingme together with you serve your
audience. Thank you.
Thank you. We're also gonna haveall
Davina (51:09):
the links that you guys need to connect with Sylvie in
the show notes so you couldcheck those out. And I'll see
you guys again next week.Thanks, Sylvie.
Intro (51:18):
If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in
your business and your life,then you'll want to visit us at
wealthywomanlawyer.com to learnmore about how we help our
clients create wealth generatinglaw firms with ease.
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