Insulin Resistance: The Silent Epidemic

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Wellness Connection MD Podcast.
Here's something that mightsurprise you.
The majority of Americans have acondition that might be causing
weight gain, exhaustion,rainfall, belly fat, and they
don't even know they have it.
It's called insulin resistance.
Those symptoms are your bodysending you danger signals.

The question is (00:16):
are you listening?
Think of insulin as the key tounlock your cells to let the
sugar in.
But with insulin resistance,it's like somebody has changed
the loss.
Your sugar can't get into yourcells, so your body produces
more and more insulin to get thesame job done.
And this silent conditionbecomes a whole body metabolic
disaster, driving seriousdisease in nearly every major

(00:36):
organ system.

But here's the good news (00:37):
it's preventable and reversible.
Today's guest, Shannon Davis, isa registered dietitian who
specializes in helping peoplejust like you.
To prevent and overcome insulinresistance, diabetes, waking,
and much more.
She's here to show you that youhave far more control over your
metabolic health than you'veever been told.
Seize the moment.
Change your health storystarting now.

SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Welcome to the Wellness Connection MV podcast
with Dr.
McMahon and Coach Litney, wherewe bring you the latest
up-to-date evidence-basedinformation on a wide variety of
health and wellness topics,along with practical technical
solutions.
Dr.
McMahon.

(01:48):
Now, onto the show with Dr.
Coach Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection MD
Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
I'm Dr.
Jim McMahon, and I'm here withour very own coach Lindsay
Matthews.
Together we bring you theevidence-based podcast with
honest, commercial-free,unbiased, up-to-date information
about functional integrativelifestyle and wellness medicine.
Our goal is to empower you withpractical solutions to overcome

(02:18):
your health care challenges andto optimize your wellness, and
to help you become a greatcaptain of your ship when it
comes to your health.
Good morning, Coach.
It's great to see you again.

SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
Good to see you too, Dr.
Mack.
It's great to be back with ourlisteners again.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Well, coach, what if your body's silent struggle with
sugar was the root cause ofthings like fatigue, weight
gain, and many other seriouschronic diseases?
And you didn't even know it.
Instone resistance is a hiddenepidemic affecting many millions
of people.
Quietly reshaping their healthfrom the inside out, and it's
getting worse, Coach.
So today we're pulling back thecurtain on this metabolic

(02:54):
mystery.

SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Yes, Dr.
Mack.
We're fortunate to have ShannonDavis on our show today to help
us unpack this mystery.
She is a registered dietitianand nutritionist with more than
19 years of experiencespecializing in metabolic health
and insulin resistance.
She's a founding board member ofthe American Diabetes Society

(03:19):
and an insulin IQ coach, as wellas the founder of a successful
virtual metabolic healthpractice where she's helped
nearly a thousand people reverseinsulin resistance, lose weight,
and even put type 2 diabetesinto remission.
Shannon's background spansdialysis, organ transplant,

(03:40):
bariatrics, and pharmaceuticalsales, giving her a unique
perspective on why food, notmedication, is the real solution
to most dietary conditions.
She's been featured on over 50podcasts, and now that includes
ours, as an expert in metabolichealth.
And when she's not helpingpeople transform their lives,

(04:01):
you'll find her in the gym doingCrossFit or spending time riding
horses, her lifelong passion.

SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Well, Coach, it sounds like we're really in for
a treat, and y'all are justgoing to love Shannon.
She's just a fountain ofknowledge on all sorts of
metabolic issues.
But before we get going, we wantto remind folks that our podcast
is one of the rare podcaststhese days that remains unbiased
and commercial free.
However, it does cost us moneyto produce these, so consider
making a contribution to help uskeep it coming to you.

SPEAKER_03 (04:29):
And there's a couple ways, listeners, that you can
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But if you do, then considerpurchasing physician grade
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You can see the link to the fullscript below in the show notes.

(04:51):
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SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
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SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
Thank you for your support.
It means a lot to us.
And now, on to the show.

SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
So without further ado, let's get going.
Shannon, welcome to the WellnessConnection MD Podcast.
It's great to have you on theshow with us today.

SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
Thank you for having me.
I'm honored.

SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
You know, Shannon, our topic is one that affects
millions of people, uh, oftenwithout them even realizing it,
and that is insulin resistance.
We'll also touch base on thingslike metabolic syndrome and type
2 diabetes.
It's a topic that comes upfrequently with our clients who
struggle with things likefatigue, stubborn weight,
excessive hunger, especiallysugar cravings, and many other
symptoms.
So we're excited to unpack ithere with you today and to dig

(06:02):
down and find out what's goingon here.
So let's start with the basics,Shannon.
In plain language, pleaseexplain to us exactly what is
insulin resistance and insulinsensitivity and why the average
listener should really careabout it.
And while you're at it, uh we'llalso be talking about things
like metabolism.
And so tell us about what ismetabolism and how is it related
to insulin resistance.

SPEAKER_04 (06:22):
Sure, sure.
Well, I'll start off uh with theeasy one.
Metabolism is the way that ourbody takes food and turns it
into energy.
Okay.
Um insulin resistance is a term,and I'm gonna quote my most
favorite metabolic scientist,Dr.
Ben Bickman.
It's a two-sided coin.
On one side of the coin, youhave insulin resistance.

(06:42):
So the cells not responding,some cells, not all cells, to
the insulin.
Insulin's the key that unlocksthe cell that takes the energy
from the food and pulls it intothis or allows it to enter the
cell.
Um, so you have to have that,the cell not responding, and the
cell doesn't respond becauseit's too full.

(07:03):
It can't hold any more energy oror glucose or sugar.
We use those termsinterchangeably.
The second component of insulinresistance is hyperinsulinemia,
meaning too much insulin.
So your pancreas is making toomuch insulin because your cells,
some of them, are not respondingto the appropriate amount.

(07:27):
So your body thinks it needsmore.
So when you have that together,you get insulin resistance.
Now you asked about insulinsensitivity.
We want to be insulin sensitive.
Our goal is to keep our insulinlevels as stable and as low as
possible so that we don't becomeresistant because insulin is a
fat-storing hormone.

(07:48):
Insulin is the hormone ofgrowth.
So the the objective is to eatin a way that that keeps our
cells sensitive because they'renot overly full and um our
pancreas doesn't have to worktoo hard to make too much
insulin.

SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
So, Shannon, you mentioned that some cells are
sensitive and some are not.
So, for instance, our musclecells do they become resistant,
whereas fat cells don't like soyou're getting lots of uh uh
sugar into the fat cells, butthey can't get into the muscle
cells, so the muscles don't haveenough energy.
Is that kind of the thing ornot?

SPEAKER_04 (08:18):
No, we all all cells can become insulin resistant.
Your brain cells, you seedementia.
Our brain becomes insulinresistant.
Um, I mean, if you've everbought a very um, very, very
expensive cut of steak, like alike a Kobe or a YGU, you'll see
that intramuscular marboline.
That's fat inside of the muscle.

(08:39):
You do not want that.
Fat can enter the muscle.
The muscle cells can becomeinsulin resistant.
That's called anabolicresistance.
Our fat cells also becomeresistance.
And and then you will, when thathappens, you start to see fat
being deposited in the liver astriglycerides.

SPEAKER_03 (08:58):
So just from a big picture perspective, Shannon,
and this is Coach Lindsaypopping in.
We're so glad you're with us.
How common is this insulinresistance in, say, the general
population of America?

SPEAKER_04 (09:12):
You know, Lindsay, it it hurts my heart to say, but
90% about 93% of our populationhas some form of insulin
resistance.
And to me, that should beembarrassing as a nation.
We are the prominent leaders ofthe world.
We have every medicationavailable, every doctor
available, every kind of test.
And yet our country is sufferingfrom a dietary disease.

(09:36):
And it looks like many differentthings.
Skin tags.
You how many people have gone tothe dermatologist to get these
little skin tags and froze off?
That's a metabolic problem.
PCOS.

SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
And they never mention it.
Never mentioned it.

SPEAKER_04 (09:53):
No, it's a dermatological problem.
PCOS, the number one fertilityproblem in the world, is a
metabolic problem.
Dementia or type three diabetesis a metabolic problem.
It's insulin resistance of thebrain.
Fatty liver, that is not a fatproblem.
It's not an eating fat problem.
It is an eating sugarcarbohydrate excess problem.

(10:16):
Chronic chronic kidney disease,hypertension is not a salt
problem.
It's an insulin problem.
Gout, neuropathy, being hangry,obesity, type 2 diabetes, these,
and some may even say cancer areall insulin problems.

SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Well, that's kind of scary, uh, Shannon.
93%.
So, you know, I recall a uhdoctor friend of mine telling me
one time that in a clinic whereshe worked, there was a
questionnaire that the newpatients had to fill out when
they first came in.
And on the questionnaire, therewere certain medical history
boxes they had to check.
And sadly, the boxes forobesity, hypertension, and
diabetes were pre-checkedbecause the assumption was that

(10:58):
just about everybody who came tothe clinic had these conditions.
So, for instance, if you didn'thave diabetes, you had uh you
were the exception and you hadto actually uncheck the box.
So that's how common things likediabetes and obesity really are
in this part of the country.
That may have something to dowith our terrible sort of
classic southern diet, which weall know is disastrous for your
health.

SPEAKER_03 (11:17):
Absolutely.
So if insulin resistance andsugar metabolism problems are
this common, which that number,like you said, Dr.
Mack, that's staggering.
93%.
Then are providers adequatelyscreening for it and
aggressively treating it?
And if not, why not?
What do you think, Shannon?

SPEAKER_04 (11:38):
You know, I am gonna preface what I'm gonna say that
I there have very much respectfor doctors, for nurse
practitioners, for PAs andnurses.
I don't think that that that itis an intentional look like an
intentional mistake or anintentional ignoring the issue.

(12:01):
They're not taught in medicalschool.
Okay.
I wasn't taught this in indietetic school.
But no, it's not being screenedupon.
We need to be checking a fastinginsulin test on every single
person in there.
It needs to be as common as ablood pressure, as a lipid
panel, as as an A1C, becausethis takes place.

(12:21):
That number, which by the way,we okay, uh uh, you know, that's
good is 10 or less, optimally issix or less.
Okay.
That number will start to trendup 10 to 20 years before your
blood sugar, your A1C is everaffected.
Okay.
That's as I mentioned earlier,the body's an amazing thing.

(12:43):
It corrects itself.
As your glucose goes up fromeating a diet that that
encourages it, and by the way,that diet comes from the
American dietaryrecommendations.
So it's it's not people's lackof willpower or lack of
discipline.
We have been told, as a country,by our government, by our health

(13:06):
care providers to eat this way.
People are followinginstructions.
But because we eat this way andour glucose starts to trend up,
the pancreas releases moreinsulin.
And that goes on for a very longtime until it just can't
anymore, till those cells arefull, till they're resistant.
And so by the time someone's A1Cstarts to trend up, this is this

(13:28):
has been this could have beenstopped 10 to 20 years prior.
And if you want my opinion,there should be no prediabetes.
You should you are diabetic oryou're not, because the
difference in prediabetes anddiabetes is a tenth of a point.
5.6 up to 5.6 is prediabetes,right?

(13:52):
But above that, I'm sorry, is isis normal.
Then you get prediabetes.
Then you get diabetes.
It's a tenth of a point.
And when we when we tell someonethey have prediabetes, I feel
like it gives them leeway or itgives them a false sense of,
okay, maybe I have time, I'm notdiabetic, I don't, I don't

(14:14):
really need to do anything yet.
No, you should have been doingsomething 10 to 20 years ago.
And if we had that fastinginsulin level, then you can show
that because you can get anormal A1C and have a fasting
insulin in in in the 20s, 30s,40s, because the body has
learned to release more insulinand yet the glucose is still

(14:35):
normal.
So wow.

SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Yeah, well, that that that's great.
And you're right, doctors don'tuh address it until they kind of
cross that thin line and theyactually become legitimately
diabetes on their labs.
Otherwise, they tend to ignoreit.

SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
So, what's actually happening inside the body when
cells become resistant toinsulin?
Can you walk us through thatphysiology in simple terms?

SPEAKER_04 (14:56):
Yes.
Okay, so I like to compare it.
Um, so the the scenario is Dr.
Again, I'm gonna speak to Dr.
Ben Bickman.
He talks about his his his wifeis at home with their kids all
day.
They're playing, they're crying,they're talking, they're loud.
And when you're amongst it allthe time, you don't really like

(15:19):
it's kind of just normal.
But when he gets home from workand he's been in a quiet office
or in a lab and he walks in,he's like, oh, you know, it's
it's it's it's shocking.
And so inside the cells, if thecells have been bathed in
insulin all the time, they don'treally recognize it.
They don't respond to it.

(15:41):
But if you have a cell thatdoesn't get bathed in insulin,
when you in you know introduce asmall amount, it's gonna
respond.
Those glute four receptors aregonna come to the surface and
it's gonna take that glucose orsugar into that cell.
Glucose is gonna come down, thecells are gonna get energy, and
the pancreas isn't having tooverwork.

(16:02):
So it's it's it's a cycle, it'sa perpetual cycle.
We eat certain foods,predominantly carbohydrates,
seed oils, ultra-processedfoods.
Okay.
And the reason I saycarbohydrates is of the three
macronutrients, carbs, proteins,and fats, carbohydrates are the
ones that cause the most, thehighest glucose.

(16:23):
Carbohydrates are sugarmolecules holding hands
together.
So when we eat them, they'rebroken down directly into sugar,
and it can happen pretty fast.
And so, in response to that, thebody is dangerous to have a lot
of sugar or glucose in thebloodstream.
So the pancreas releases insulinto pull that to help facilitate

(16:44):
that glucose out of thebloodstream into the cells.

SPEAKER_01 (16:49):
Well, that's great, Shannon.
You know, it seems like somepeople get it and some people
don't.
So, what are some of the maincauses and risk factors of
insulin resistance?
Is it mostly just a diet andexercise, or are there other
factors that uh play a role?

SPEAKER_04 (17:00):
That that is the one that's mostly talked about
because it is the most, it's theeasiest one to address.
Okay.
That's the easiest fix.
And when I say, well, let me letme rephrase this.
That's the simplest to fix.
Simple doesn't mean easy.
But stress, when we're stressed,our body releases cortisol.

(17:20):
And there are studies that showsomebody can be on a very, very,
very, very low calorie dietcompared to somebody eating
regular.
And if they're subjected tostress and have high cortisol
levels, they can gain weight ona diet where they should be
losing it more than the peopleeating more food because of the
cortisol.

(17:41):
So stress, not getting a lot ofsleep, one night of sleep can re
it can increase your risk ofinsulin resistance by 25%.
Certain medications, you know,steroids, lack of muscle is
probably one of the biggestareas that are very concerning
to me.
Muscle is our is our organ oflongevity.

(18:03):
It is our biggest glucose sink.
As we age, we automatically losemuscle.
So if we're not doing some typeof resistance exercise, we're
gonna lose our biggest glucosesponge.
But then also hormones.
Women, as we as we entermenopause, we lose estrogen.
Estrogen is our superpower.

(18:23):
Estrogen keeps us insulinsensitive.
So you have hormones, you havelack of movement, you have lack
of sunshine and vitamin D, youhave poor food choices, sleep
problems, stress.

SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
What about genetics?
Can we blame it on mom and dad?

SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
You know, what we bl there, I do believe that some
people may have the tendency togo down that road easier than
others, but our environment isis far more powerful.
What we inherit are are the beheating behaviors of our parents.

SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
And speaking of environment, what about
environmental toxins?
Do those play a role?

SPEAKER_04 (19:02):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you brought that up.
I left that out.
The the there's obesogens,there's microplastics, there's
Dr.
Paul Reynolds did a studyearlier this year where he
showed that people exposed todiesel fuel fumes became insulin
resistant.
So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
Wow, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (19:22):
Those those are some very powerful things to think
about.
They're giving me some pause tothink about all those risk
factors.
To your point, though, I thinkthere's that 10 to 20 year gap
where all this is developingbehind the scenes before you
might actually see it on thetraditional lab work that is.
So I think it's probably safe tosay most people with insulin

(19:43):
resistance don't know that theyhave it at all.
What are some early warningsigns that we could tell people,
maybe apart from the fastinginsulin level you mentioned,
that their doctor or they couldbe on the lookout for?

SPEAKER_04 (19:55):
Yeah.
If they don't have a fastinginsulin, they can always take
their triglycerides, which wewant, ideally 100 or less, and
their HDL, which has beenlabeled the good cholesterol,
ideally you want 55 or greater,and divide your triglycerides by
your HDL.
And if that ratio is greaterthan 1.5, you have insulin
resistance.

(20:16):
So it's not always weight, butbut so we we sort of mentioned
it.
Always hungry, poor energy,fatigue, inability to lose
weight, you could have hairloss, inability to get pregnant,
you can have gout or neuropathy,you could start to see floaters
in your eye, erectiledysfunction in men, an increased

(20:39):
waist circumference, greaterthan 40 for men, 35 for women.
You can see blood pressureincreasing, you can see
triglycerides, I alreadymentioned that, going up, the
skin tags.
You can see it's calledathancosis, nit athancosis
nitrogans, the dark patches ofskin, you'll see it on people's
neck.
It looks like they're dirty,like they need to bathe.

(21:01):
So uh let's see, brain fog, youknow, people starting to forget
things.
So, and and then the obviousones are your blood sugar, your
A1C going up.

SPEAKER_01 (21:14):
Well, you mentioned a lot of labs.
Any any other labs that uhdoctors should be monitoring or
that, for instance, patientsshould ask their doctors for?
Sometimes the patients have totake the lead role in this
fight.
The doctors don't do it.
So you have to walk and say, Iwant these labs.
So what labs should a patientask for?

SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
I mean, there's so many, but I think if we just get
the basic, you want a full lip,full lipid panel.
And I would I would also askthem to break down the particle
size of your LDL because LDL isnot always a bad guy.
Um, you want an A1C, you want afasting insulin, you want a CRP,
that's your level ofinflammation.
That's pretty important.

(21:48):
Thyroid, you want the fullthyroid panel, not just a TSH.

But those are the basics (21:52):
an A1C, a fasting glucose, a
fasting insulin, um, fullthyroid, full lipid panel, and a
CRP.

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Okay, great.
And explain to me the differencebetween glycemic index and
glycemic load, and which one ismore important?

SPEAKER_04 (22:07):
So index is like the speed at which the food raises
your blood sugar.
So it's how fast is this food?
So like white bread has a highglycemic index, whereas an egg
does not.
Okay.
Glycemic load is how much ofsugar and how fast.

(22:28):
So load is like how fast and howmuch.
So you can sort of change theindex by coupling foods
together.
So for instance, white bread hasno fiber, no fat, which slow
down the sugar spike.
But but carrots, which havesugar, also have a ton of fiber.

(22:50):
So it they have it slows downthe absorption.
You know, I don't talk aboutthat very often anymore.
I used to a lot.
I don't use that because it's soconfusing to patients.
I I really mostly just talkabout carbohydrates, and then I
sort of label fiber in its owngroup, fat and protein.
And to me, that simplifiesthings because if people try to

(23:12):
play the game and say, well, oh,it has a high glycemic index,
but if I couple it with this, itlower it, it makes it have a,
you know, less load.

SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
So all right, yeah.
Well, thank you.
I think it's good always wise tokeep things simple.

SPEAKER_03 (23:26):
Absolutely.
And we've talked abouthemoglobin A1C a little bit.
What do you think should be?
Because you mentioned earlier,like you don't like that term
pre-diabetes.
That's just giving people anexcuse.
So, what do you think that upperlimit for the hemoglobin A1C
should be ideally?
I mean, again, this is justpersonal.

SPEAKER_04 (23:45):
I like it around five, to be honest.
Five under 5.5, I think is good.
Because there are cases likeyou'll see carnivores, for
instance, will run with a higherA1C because their blood cells
live longer.
So I when I look at an A1C,that's just one part of the

(24:07):
picture.
That's just you need moreevidence to go with it to back
it up because A1C doesn't tellanything.
I mean, I know it's athree-month average of the
glycation on our red blood cellsor or the the how sticky that
red blood cell is.
But people's red blood cellslive longer or live shorter.

(24:28):
People on dialysis get EPO.
Their red blood cell life ismuch, much shorter than than
someone who is extremely healthyon a carnivore diet.
So it's it's a it's it'simportant, Lindsay, but it's not
the big picture.
I want to see everything withthat.

SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
So if somebody has a normal A1C, that doesn't
necessarily uh mean they don'thave insulin resistance.
Not at all.
Okay.
Very good.
So yeah, let's move on tometabolic syndrome.
I'd like to touch base on thatuh uh briefly.
You know, i I see guys coming inwith this big big beer gut, and
all of their criteria are metfor metabolic syndrome uh uh by

(25:06):
the American Heart Association,and yet their doctors have never
mentioned it, drive me crazy.
It's like it's it's off theirradar screen.
So uh talk to us a bit about uhthe criteria for metabolic
syndrome and why that'simportant.

SPEAKER_04 (25:18):
So, you know, the criteria is the waist
circumference, you know,triglycerides, I think it's
blood pressure, A1C, fastingglucose.
A lot of times I thinkphysicians are very short on
time.
You gotta address the the reasonthat they're in.
Most people go to the doctorbecause they're sick.

(25:39):
They're gonna be focused on thethe issue at hand.
And these criteria that make upthe definition of metabolic
syndrome, they take up a lot oftime.
You could they need a thoroughexplanation, they need training,
they need guidance.
It's not as simple as, you know,don't do that or do that.

(25:59):
And so I think it's not talkedabout because it's complicated,
because it's almost normal.
And it's easier just to give upsomebody a medication than to
talk about it.
Oh, you have high bloodpressure, we're just gonna put
you on this blood pressure med.
Oh, you have high cholesterol,we're just gonna put you on a
statin, oh, your blood sugar'selevated, we're gonna just start
metformin.

(26:20):
It's easier to do that.
It takes less time than to go inand talk about each one and what
to do about it.

SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
No, Shannon, you mentioned that the concept of
type 3 diabetes earlier.
I've always been sort offascinated in dementia and sort
of what causes it.
Uh I think years ago we justused to think it was bad luck.
People got it or they didn't,but uh we know that there's
underlying root causes.
So tell us about uh the role ofinsulin resistance, metabolic
syndrome, diabetes in thedevelopment of dementia.

SPEAKER_04 (26:46):
So when we think of dementia or Alzheimer's, I think
automatically we think ofplaque.
Oh, that person has those theplaque in their brain, right?
How many medications have beencreated to uh to target this
plaque?
How many have been successful?
Zero.
Okay.
There have been autopsies ofbrain of people that are healthy

(27:08):
with no dementia or Alzheimer's,and they have plaques in their
brain.
So plaque doesn't mean dementia.
When the brain is I think thebrain's third in line on being
the biggest energy consumer inour body.
The kidneys are first, the heartsecond, then the the brain,
which to me is weird.
You would think the brain wouldbe first, but so the brain needs

(27:32):
a lot of energy.
And it's it to be so small, itit needs a bunch.
It gets energy two ways.
It gets energy through glucose,which we've talked a lot about.
Now, in order to get that energyinto the cells in the brain, you
need insulin.
The insulin has to unlock thedoor to allow the glucose into
those cells.

(27:52):
If the brain's cells are insulinresistant, that glucose cannot
get into the cells.
So the the brain's being starvedof energy.
The second source of energy isketones.
The brain actually prefersketones.
If you have glucose and ketonesat the same time present, the
brain will predominantly chooseketones over glucose, even if

(28:15):
there's more glucose available.

SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
Tell the audience what are ketones, please.

SPEAKER_04 (28:19):
Ketones are a byproduct of fat breakdown.
When we limit our the the bodygets energy from two sources,
from fat and from carbohydratesor glucose.
So when we either don't haveglucose through fasting or
eating a very low carbohydratediet, our body is going to

(28:41):
create energy through byproductsof fat breakdown, which are
ketones.
So it's a very clean energysource.
It's it's a very healthy energysource.
Babies are in ketosis.
So it it's great for braindevelopment.
It's it's veryanti-inflammatory.
I mean, there's it's like asuperpower or a superfuel like

(29:04):
nitrous.
So the brain can get glucose,but not if it's insulin
resistant.
It's being starved of energy.
So if we look to the secondenergy source, ketones, well,
you don't produce ketones in thepresence of insulin.
So you can see the brain's notgetting either energy source.
It can't make ketones becauseyou got sky-high insulin, and it

(29:25):
and the cells are resistant, sothe insulin's not doing its job.
So that's why it's called type 3diabetes, because it's like
insulin resistance of the brain.
You can't make ketones and youcan't use the glucose present.

SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Well, another factor is that you've got excess
insulin and sugar floatingaround, and both of those are
pro inflammatory.

SPEAKER_04 (29:44):
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
And Alzheimer's is a neurodegenerative disease caused
by neuroinflammation.
So uh that's another potentialsource of that uh dementia.

SPEAKER_04 (29:55):
Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:56):
All right, you know, Shannon, one thing we always try
to do on the podcast is bringfolks what we call Practical
solutions.
So let's talk about uh whatpeople can do for these issues
of insulin resistance andmetabolic syndrome.
What's the Shannon approach todealing with these issues?

SPEAKER_04 (30:09):
I call it the three-step protocol.
So when I when I teach peopleabout how to reverse insulin
resistance, the first thing Isay is let's incorporate some
time restricted eating.
Some people call it intermittentfasting, some people call it
time restricted eating.
All we're doing is shrinking oureating window.
The sweet spot seems to be 16.8,but I am a big fan of changing

(30:31):
it up so the body doesn't adapt.
Fast 12 hours, fast 14, fast 18,fast 16, excuse me, fast 24, but
you're just shrinking youreating window.
Truly.
I didn't say anything abouteating less, just eating less
frequently.
And you can count your sleepingas part of that.
You're fasting when you'resleeping.

(30:52):
So that's step one.
Step two is change what you eat.
Okay.
I know we've talked a lot aboutcarbohydrates and glucose.
So if insulin resistance is adisease of carbohydrate toxicity
or or the cell being too fewfull of glucose and and not
responding to insulin, wouldn'tthe the most simple thing be to

(31:15):
remove the causative agent,which is glucose, which is
sugar, which is carbs.
So and and I don't mean that youhave to be in ketosis or eat
zero carbs, but eat less carbs.
If you are struggling, we needto be aggressive in how we treat
that.
So we're going to restrict themmore.
Then once you reverse it, youcan start incorporating some

(31:38):
good, healthy carbs back inthere.
But I try to tell people if youare trying to reverse type 2
diabetes, which is the extremeend of insulin resistance, try
to keep your carbs 30 grams orless.
Focus on foods that are high infiber, your high fiber
vegetables, broccoli, Brusselssprout, zucchini, yellow squash,
asparagus, avocados, any type oflettuce, cabbage, okra, green

(32:00):
beans, cucumbers, those types ofnon-starchy vegetables.
If you want fruit, eat them atthe end of your meal and make
sure it's something, the higherfiber fruits, your berries,
something like that, an applewith the peel.
Then focus on predominantlyanimal-based proteins, chicken,
fish, beef, pork, eggs, seafood.

(32:22):
Make that the center part ofyour plate.
Surround it with your veggies,your non-starchy, and don't fear
the fat that comes with it.
Do not throw the egg yolk away.
Do not fear like the chickenskin.
Do not fear butter.
Do not fear avocado oil, coconutoil, olive oil, butter, ghee,

(32:43):
lard, tallow.
Use those.
Now you don't have to pile it onextra, but don't be afraid of
it.
Avoid the seed oils.
And then last but not least, sothat's one and two, time
restricted eating, changing whatyou eat.
And then I always, I guessthere's really four.
The third one is incorporatingsome supplements.
So I always encourage if youneed help with fasting, like

(33:07):
your appetite.
A lot of people will say, I'vetried to fast and it's just too
hard.
There's some supplements that Irecommend.
One is a Yurba mate concentrate.
And the reason that's sobeneficial is it contains
something called chlorogenicacid.
That upregulates our own GLP1production by 60 to 70%.
So it shuts off the food noise.
It makes fasting easy, but it'salso an insulin sensitizer.

(33:31):
It's an anti-inflammatory, itgives you great energy.
It increases glutathione, whichis the most potent antioxidant
in the body.
Um, it's unbelievable.
I've I've I've never seenanything work like this for
people.
And then the second part of thatsupplement is a fiber matrix.
And so you consume that.
And what does that do?

(33:52):
That we have clinical studiesfrom the Cleveland Clinic, the
top cardiac hospital in theworld, that said it could
replace lipid lowering meds.
My personal experience is ittook my triglycerides from 250
down to 50.

SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 (34:04):
And it took my HDL from 53 up to 122 in eight
weeks.
I changed nothing else.
That's right.
Um, but the fibers lowertriglycerides, increase HDL, but
they lower per clinical study atBYU by Dr.
Bickman glucose 43%.
Now metformin lowers glucose 25to 30%.

(34:26):
So you're lower.
You're lowering inflammation,you're improving gut health
because it's a blend of sevendifferent types of soluble and
insoluble fibers.
So gut health is huge.
You have to have good guthealth.
You have to have a goodpopulation of microbiome of
microorganisms.
So you're improving gut health,you're lowering glucose, which

(34:46):
is secondarily lowering insulin,you're lowering inflammation,
you're helping to controlappetite and satiety.
You're it you're preventing thesnacking and you're avoiding the
foods that are the biggestinsult.
So when you combine those alongwith some resistance training, I
always say number four isresistance training, sleep, and

(35:07):
sun.
Then you can reverse insulinresistance.

SPEAKER_01 (35:10):
That's fabulous, Shannon.
You know, if you'll send me alist of those supplements, I'll
put them in the document sectionunder Shannon's supplements for
for uh insulin resistance, andpeople have those uh to they
they can access.
All right, I'm gonna ask youjust quickly about a couple of
the specific uh foods and justgive me a thumbs up or thumbs
down.
What about pasta?

SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Down, thumbs down.

SPEAKER_01 (35:28):
Uh-oh.
Raw honey is kind ofinteresting.
I remember a guy, Dr.
Pearl Mutter, years ago.
He was always against it, andthen he said, hmm, it has some
health benefits.
And so uh he kind of came aroundto accepting some raw honey.
What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_04 (35:40):
So I do defin definitely think raw honey has
some some health promotingbenefits to it, but I think it's
all in context of how theperson, number one, are they
metabolically healthy and howare they using it?
If they're just pouring honey ontheir tongue, it's gonna spike
their glucose.
It's still sugar.
And people, I get the thefeedback, well, it's natural,
doctor, it's natural, but rocksare natural.

(36:01):
Do we eat rocks?

SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (36:03):
So it's all in context to this person's
metabolic flexibility.
I would prefer them use it over,you know, high fructose corn
syrup.
But if you're putting it in yourmorning tea, it's going to spike
your glucose if you are insulinresistant.

SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
And the last specific food I want to ask you
about is uh oatmeal.
We had a previous conversationabout that.
And you know, I did kind oflooked it up, and gosh, uh, it
reduces heart attacks andstrokes, lowers cholesterol,
reduces diet, a lot of goodthings, right?
And uh so sign me up.
But you know, it's interesting,you're not alone.
This is I think it was Dr.
Mark Hyman who was againstoatmeal for the same reason.
Uh and of course Dr.

(36:38):
Gundry uh hates oatmeal.
So uh I'm I'm trying to learnhow I eat oatmeal and maybe I
should cut it out.
So enlighten me as to uh are arewe really looking at this
surrogate marker, insulinresistance, and and ignoring the
other things like improvedmorbidity mortality?

SPEAKER_04 (36:52):
So, I mean, I I am not the person that's dogmatic
and saying you should never eatthis, you should never eat this.
We are very individual, okay?
What what may you may tolerate,I may not.
If we just look at oats, andagain, it's all in the context.
It's all in the context.
If you are a healthy individual,you're very active, and you can

(37:13):
find one that's glyph glyphosatefree, and you don't have any
reaction to phytates and lectinsum and oxalates, then by all
means.
But it has been touted as thishalo food.
There's no protein to it, it'spure carbohydrate.
It does have some fiber to it,but you can get fiber that

(37:35):
doesn't spike your glucose.
So I think that if you're goingto have it, you don't need to be
insulin resistant, number one.
And I would have it in thepresence of some protein, some
Greek yogurt.
Maybe you add some chia seeds toit, some hemp hearts to it.
That that's that's my thought.
Organic doesn't mean glyphosatefree because the field could be

(37:59):
next to some something that youknow the wind blows, the water
runs off, you can't stop the thebugs.
But it's also in the amount.
Anything that you you eat everysingle day, you can develop a
sensitivity to.
My best friend has eaten eggsand beef for three years.
That's pretty much it.
Now eggs have she she can't eateggs.

(38:20):
So it's not that eggs are bad,but they're just not she needs
to take a break.
Again, I know that's not a greatanswer.
I personally don't eat oats.
If that if you want my answer, Idon't eat oats.
I'm gonna I would eat eggs andbacon and sausage for breakfast
before I would eat oats.

SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Okay, very good.
Very good.
Well, thank you for that answer.

SPEAKER_03 (38:41):
Okay, another specific question for you,
Shannon.
What are your thoughts onartificial sweeteners like
aspartame and sucralose?

SPEAKER_04 (38:50):
So calorie-free sweeteners, I'm gonna label
them, do have a place, Ibelieve.
I think that again, I try not tobe dogmatic about being in a
perfect world because we woulddrive ourselves insane if we
tried to be perfect.
And so if you have somebodythat's drinking regular soda and
they can drink a diet, I thinkthat's a win.

(39:11):
Now, do I think diet sodas arehealthy?
I didn't say that, but I thinkif if if you you do things one
step at a time, I do use naturalsweeteners.
I use monk fruit, I use stevia,and my favorite of all is
something called allulose.
And if you look at the benefitsof allulose, it lowers glucose,
it actually increases GLP1production, it has some

(39:33):
anti-inflammatory properties toit.
So I am a fan of like stevia,monk fruit, allulose.
I I do like sweet things, and soI use those.
I tried to avoid sucralosebecause it crosses a blood-brain
barrier.
I mean, I've used it for years.
I don't have a reaction to it, Idon't have a problem with it.
Would I would I drink somethingthat had it?

(39:54):
Sure, but I'm gonna try to, ifif I have the power to control
what I'm using, I will pick oneof the natural ones.

SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
Uh Shannon, uh, tell us briefly about the difference
between sucrose, glucose,fructose, and high fructose corn
syrup.
Which ones are the worst and andwhere do you find those worst
types?

SPEAKER_04 (40:10):
High fructose corn syrup, by far the worst.
Fructose is otherwise known asfruit sugar.
So you'll find it predominantlyin fruit.
It does not get broken down, itgoes straight into the liver.
So you can actually cause fattyliver disease by eating too much
fruit.
Now, that doesn't really happenbecause nature is amazing and

(40:32):
they've added quite a bit offiber to fruit, so it's really
hard for people to overeatfruit.
But but if you drink pure fruitjuice, yes, you're getting a
blow of fructose.
And the liver doesn't see thatany different than alcohol.
Glucose is what our energy uses,it's what our body uses, it's
what's in our bloodstream.
And sucrose is a combination offructose and glucose.

(40:54):
It is table sugar.
One of them that we didn't talkabout that I'll mention is agave
because people think agave is,you know, this it got again,
marketing is brilliant.
It got touted as this natural,amazing sweetener because it
doesn't raise glucose.
Well, that's because the it's Ithink it's 80% fructose.

(41:14):
The reason it doesn't gostraight to the liver.
So you're better off using sugarthan you are agave because
you're impacting your liver.
Our liver gets beat up way toomuch.
And when when you in you take intoxins or fructose or alcohol,
that get m got the the liverdeals away with that first
because it's so toxic before itdoes what it it its normal job

(41:37):
or or anything else.

SPEAKER_01 (41:39):
So Shannon, do you consult with patients on an
individual basis?
I do.
Yeah, wonderful.
When you consult with them, isthis sort of a one-size-fits-all
approach or is everything verypersonalized to each patient?

SPEAKER_04 (41:49):
It's very personalized.
I am I'm a big fan ofeverybody's different.
And I do give generalrecommendations because I do a
lot of social media, a lot ofeducating to groups.
So, you know, my my three tofour step protocol, I teach to
everybody.
But the amount of carbs that gowith that, the amount of
exercise that goes with that,you know, certain supplements

(42:10):
that go with that are are gonnabe individualized.

SPEAKER_01 (42:12):
And so you're also available to speak with groups
and things like that, right?
Oh, that's that's wonderful.
Uh gosh, uh Shannon, you canhave so much impact on people's
lives.
I think that you're just such avaluable resource.
That sounds great.
So when you see people coming inwith you know stubborn weight
gain and frank diet type 2diabetes, are are you able to
reverse those things?
Yes.
Isn't that wonderful?

SPEAKER_04 (42:32):
Wow.
No, I don't reverse them, theyreverse them.
I just guide them.

SPEAKER_01 (42:35):
You you you guide them.
That's just great.

SPEAKER_04 (42:38):
I like to empower the person.

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Just to be clear, people can have insulin
resistance even if they havenormal weight, right?

SPEAKER_04 (42:45):
Correct.
I had insulin resistance.

SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 (42:48):
I exercise regularly.
I've never had a weight problem,blood pressure problem, but my
lipids were through the roof.
So if you you did mytriglyceride to HDL ratio, it
was insulin resistance.

SPEAKER_01 (43:01):
We are in a whole new era.
What's the role of uh thingslike wearables and uh uh a
continuous glucose monitor andmanaging and detecting insulin
resistance?

SPEAKER_04 (43:10):
I think they're they're a great tool to show
people the impact that whatthey're eating has on them.
Because two people can be theexact same weight and eat the
exact same thing and it docompletely different things in
their body.

SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
And so if somebody's really motivated and sticks with
your plan, how long does it taketo see some change?

SPEAKER_04 (43:29):
They'll see change right away, but but the time
that it takes for them toreverse their insulin resistance
depends on many factors.
How r insulin resistant arethey?
How long have they been insulinresistance, and how many, how
many symptoms are we looking atreversing?

SPEAKER_01 (43:44):
So if somebody has insulin resistance or they think
they might, what are the firststeps they need to take tomorrow
morning?

SPEAKER_04 (43:50):
The first thing they can do is they can stop
snacking.
That's number one.
They can get rid ofultra-processed foods.
I think that that's by far thebest.
They can focus on eating, youknow, more protein, more fiber,
and less carbohydrates.
They can walk 10 minutes afterthey eat.

SPEAKER_01 (44:11):
Okay, and as we wrap this up, what are the most
important and empoweringmessages you'd like to uh leave
people with today?

SPEAKER_04 (44:17):
Just because you have insulin resistance doesn't
mean that that is your identityand that is your destiny.
It is reversible.
It's not genetic.
It is up to you, it is incontrol, and it's not your
fault.
But if you want to change, youcan change.
And so it's it's I I just wantto empower people to know that

(44:38):
that you have the ability totake control of your health, get
multiple opinions, askquestions, do research.
Because you're diagnosed with itdoesn't mean you have to live
with it.

SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
Okay, Shen, as we wrap things up, tell us how the
folks can get in touch with youor find more about you.

SPEAKER_04 (44:56):
Sure.
I'll leave you a I'm on Facebookpredominantly.
I'm on Instagram, I'm onLinkedIn.
I will leave you a link tree,which if they click that has all
of my contact information aswell as a link to the supplement
to my favorite supplements.

SPEAKER_01 (45:12):
And Shannon, thank you, thank you, thank you so
much for being with us today.
That was so informative.
Uh I've been wanting to do thistopic for a long time, and
you're the perfect person tocome along to do this on the
podcast for us.
Uh so thanks again, and thatshould do it for us.

SPEAKER_04 (45:25):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was it was my pleasure andhonor.

SPEAKER_01 (45:28):
All right.
Take care, Shannon.
Bye-bye now.

SPEAKER_03 (45:30):
Bye.
Well, that does it for thisedition of Wellness Connection
MD.
Thank you so much for listening.
I hope that we were able toshare something that informed
and inspired you today.

SPEAKER_01 (45:43):
And if you like the show, then please help us by
taking a moment to rate us oniTunes.
These reviews really do make adifference for us.

SPEAKER_03 (45:50):
Also, if you like the podcast, then take a moment
today to let a friend know aboutit and help us spread the word
about evidence-based, holistic,functional, and integrative
medicine.

SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
You know, we're trying to build a tribe of
people who are passionate aboutholistic lifestyle, integrative,
and functional medicine andoptimal health, and we hope
you'll join the tribe.

SPEAKER_03 (46:09):
If you would like to reach out to us to comment on
the show or to makerecommendations for future
topics, then please do so atdrmcmin at yahoo.com.

SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
If you'd like to view a complete transcript of
the show, then go toMcMinnMd.buzzsprout.com and
you'll find it there.
And now, coach, can you pleaseleave us with one of your
wonderful coach Lindsay Pearlsof Wisdom?

SPEAKER_03 (46:31):
Thanks, Dr.
Mack.
You know, I loved how Shannon umshe closed with saying that
insulin resistance is not anidentity or a destiny.
I thought that was reallypowerful.
And I think another way ofthinking about insulin
resistance is it's an earlywarning from our bodies, one
that we can listen to andaddress.

(46:52):
And on that note, just to kindof leave you listeners with a
bit of encouraging research, a2020 research study published in
the Lancet Diabetes andEndocrinology found that even
eight weeks of focused lifestylechange, so real food, movement,
better sleep, those thingsimproved insulin sensitivity by

(47:12):
up to 40%.
Um, so in other words,prevention is not only possible,
but even in short periods oftime, you can begin to see that.
Um, your body listens andresponds once we recognize that
the alarms are going off.

SPEAKER_01 (47:28):
You know, coach, I just love the concept of uh
people being empowered.
Um there are so many people thatdon't have to have obesity, they
don't have to have diabetes.
And you know, the diabetes isnot just diabetes, diabetes is
is dementia, heart failure,kidney disease.
I mean, all sorts of badness,amputations, you name it.

(47:48):
Um, and sexual dysfunction.
We've got to tell the guys itcauses sexual dysfunction.
That way they'll really payattention, right?

SPEAKER_03 (47:54):
That will get attention.

SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
But anyway, um, just kidding, folks.
But uh, but yeah, I thinkeverybody should be empowered
that uh you can do somethingabout it based on you know what
Shannon has uh told us today.
And of course, she's a wonderfulresource.
Please feel free to reach out toher.
That should do it, for us,coach.
Uh, this is uh Dr.
McMahon signing up.
And this is Coach Lindsay.
Take care and be well.

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