May 13, 2024 • 40 mins
This is the Catamount update from the Mile High Hunt and Fish Expo podcast booth. Three years in, Catamount Outdoor Gear is still striving to innovate and produce the best outdoor gear possible. From iterations and improvements on their flagship Bino Pack to the new line of carry pouches and products and the new VersaMount hip quiver. Enjoy the episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:07):
To become better hunters. Whether you're chasing bugles over the next ridge,
sitting a stand out east, this is about passion, pursuing our dreams afield,
our lifestyle, the betterment of self and community, the enlightenment that
comes from those moments spent in God's creation.
Through these conversations, I hope you find insight, inspiration,
education, and motivation to push beyond your limits.
(00:29):
We're red, bud, and hot sitting here at Mile High Hunting Fish Expo with the
Catamount Boys, Mark Johnson and Jason,
juke just jokey jokey damn it i was
like there's some silent letters in that sob close enough
i have one of those last names man so i apologize so man
has been a whirlwind right i mean catamount two years now been three years total
(00:53):
three years total okay total so two year we kind of count as a as it's a write-off
so i was just teaching myself how to sew right so so two years to market yes
right and then that that year and i know very well about i'm gonna start Start
sewing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Right? I mean, you guys have been fast and furious. What's impressed me,
you know, kind of watching it is the...
(01:15):
Extraordinary attention to detail on things, right?
I mean, that's absolutely obvious in what you're doing. I mean,
even with some of the social posts, you can see it, right? You're laser cutting and things like that.
But to see the overall build and not understand how you guys are manufacturing
and things like that on the consumer end, to look at a piece and go, holy crap,
(01:38):
there's some time and effort being spent into that. How's it been, man? man.
You nailed it when you said it's a whirlwind. That's for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Trying to come out with new stuff like consistently, but not put out anything
that's like subpar or just not needed.
That's kind of the struggle. Like just, yeah. I mean, it's just one of those
things where everybody's so different that like you can come out with something
(01:59):
you think it's, you know, God's gift to hunting.
And then everybody else is like, man, I would never use it.
So that's kind of the balance of trying to, to, to spitball new things and then
also test new things and And idea fruition or idea necessity,
fruition, failure, success.
I mean, it's kind of like the top five and that, you know, especially,
(02:20):
and forgive me for saying it, right.
Don't take offense, that garage business, right.
Startup type deal, right. With me and Western fly was the same thing.
I did something cause I had a need and then kind of spawn,
you know, and for me, it's been rough cause it's still just me just,
you know, and it's, I was telling somebody earlier we were
(02:41):
talking about it was chris rowe matter of fact he was asking me how it was
going and i go i'm a i'm an absolute seamstress at this
point i seem sure yeah i
mean i mean jason and
i do 99 of everything like i mean we're not we're not big enough to do big giant
runs of things and all that kind of stuff so yeah i mean we're in the same boat
(03:03):
as you i mean we're we're essentially a one-man band and we're just kind of
we wear way too many hats at this point you know like you kind of gotta get your feet in or.
I don't know what the phrasing would be, but you kind of got to have your toes in every pond.
Right. You can't just stick in one thing. I mean, honestly, once you go,
and it's not even a dip your toe in the water, right?
(03:24):
It's either you're going to go with a product or you're not going to go with
a product at this point, right? Yeah, sure. How does that risk feel?
I mean, we're a little bit different than some companies because we have no outside investment.
So it's just all our money. So we refuse to take on investors and,
you know, be bought and sold, be told what we need to do, how we need to market
things like we're not going to do that. We never will do that.
(03:47):
We're I'll close the doors before we do anything like that.
Like we want to do things our way because the way that we're doing it,
we think is the right way.
And I mean, whether the whole market thinks that it's the right way,
you're never going to appease everybody.
But I mean, everybody that's using our gear so far loves it.
I mean, and we take everything to heart.
So like if anybody has any negative criticism, we encourage them to tell nitpick everything apart.
(04:11):
If you see anything you don't like about it, we want to hear everything so we
can, we can just dial in the next
version. You know, we're just constantly evolving, constantly improving.
That's the goal. So, and that, that's a big thing, right? When,
when I got the initial harness from me, I think that was the gen one harness.
You asked me how it was. I said, it has a little, you know, I got to fix,
send it to me. I never sent it because my wife took it over and she's like,
(04:32):
I love this thing. That was the Gen 2, actually.
Was it the Gen 2? But we made an inline change to the Gen 2.
The Gen 1 kind of, we had an interesting, I call it interesting.
I liked the closure on the top.
It was a little bit different, but people just couldn't wrap their head around that closure system.
So that's the perfect example of something that just had to just die because
it worked for us. I mean, it worked for Jason, worked for a lot of our friends.
(04:55):
Everybody liked it that we were running with. But then as soon as it got out
to the masses, it was like, people were like, eh, it's, it's so,
it was so different than what everybody else was doing that I thought it was good. And it was.
Different enough that I thought that it would sell because it was different
enough, but it went the complete opposite direction.
It was two different people, a good product. You shouldn't have to explain,
(05:18):
right? You shouldn't have to teach somebody how to use a product.
It should be pretty dumbed down and pretty simple.
And as simple as that lid seemed to me, people just couldn't get their head
around it. And that's fine. That's fine. But how do you flip that?
How do you, because that's the standout stuff, right? That's the stuff that's
going to set in my head that's going to set catamount apart
from the other manufacturers in that one particular
(05:39):
product right so how how do you do that
how do you how do you say that this is the reason
we're doing it and have it take hold and really you're just we're retraining
the market i mean that's the hard part with it right this is a regular enclosure
and every freaking bino harness has this enclosure this is an improvement why
do we have to sell the improvement it's crazy to me Yeah. I mean,
(06:00):
maybe we could, maybe I killed it too early.
You know, I don't know. I got nervous real fast because we sunk a bunch of money
into that. I was going to say, and it's your money.
It's our money. Yeah. So it's not like just, yeah, some guy writing a check.
It's like, it's my money. I mean, I've got a, I've got four daughters.
I mean, I can't just sink a hundred percent of my money into this thing, you know?
So we're, we're pretty diligent about where we choose to make changes in that stuff.
(06:22):
But we do, I think we talked about this last time. We, We have a spreadsheet
that is literally every comment that we get when people email us or call us
or if you tell me just in passing, hey, we don't like this or we like this.
I write everything down.
And so, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of just evolution, man.
We just kind of just keep evolving, keep making changes, keep testing stuff
(06:42):
like that's Jason's strength is he beats the shit out of everything.
And I mean, that's great to have somebody who can just thrash stuff.
Right. Because, yeah, I mean, if it works for Jason, it's going to work for
everybody. Pretty hard on gear, yeah.
And then our return rate's really, really low. That's what we're striving for. We've had one return.
No way in the two years. Across everything, we've had one return.
(07:05):
That doesn't mean everybody loves everything.
I mean, there's a lot of people that just, eh, they've got disposable income.
I'll just sell it on RockSlide or whatever.
I'm sure that's happened. But we've had one return, and that was not,
I'll say that wasn't our fault.
That was a sizing issue. and the guy chose a size that was, he was trying to
stuff way too big of binos in the pack.
So it wasn't even like a function issue. It was just chose the wrong thing.
(07:28):
So you brought up seeing it for selling it on Rockslide.
Have you seen any of that? Do
you watch it? Do you find yourself obsessing over things like that at all?
Man, I try to stay up. You touched on the social media stuff earlier and like
I am the kind of guy that posts and then I just leave.
Like I just, I don't know. There's just...
(07:49):
Social media is a very double-edged sword and it's real sharp on both sides
you know there's like the,
the camaraderie and all that stuff in some sections and then
there's just straight hate spewers and it's
just like it's hard to to shut your mouth sometimes
and not bark back and so i find myself just
if i just don't see it you know like if i i just
(08:09):
can't engage right with some of that stuff but i just want to keep
things positive trying to stay in our lane and keep moving forward it yeah
that's all you could do i mean it's i don't know for me and
maybe it's it's just the experience of of
dealing with the things over the last few years and what i see and
really i'm on the outside of things you know in the podcast realm and i do it
for passion for fun right just because i like the conversations so when i see
(08:33):
it it doesn't it doesn't affect me i know in no offense to folks listening this
is guy's mouth not jason or mark the flipping peanut gallery when it comes to
that stuff is, is comical to me.
It's like, how many days you spent on the mountain this year in that, you know, two.
Oh, okay. So that's, that's a hell of an opinion to draft for two,
for two days on the mountain.
You know, there's just little things like we're giving away a rifle at this
(08:55):
show, you know? And so I posted it up on a couple of Facebook pages and I mean,
the, the, the landslide of just hate was just like, that's crazy.
Wow. I'm just, we're just trying to give away a rifle yeah yeah so
i mean we're kind of in and out of the social
media stuff like we engage with people and all that stuff and
i should say the vast majority of people
(09:16):
are great you know but it's hard not
to focus in on the negative you
could have a thousand good one bad one and
that one bad one will fly in your head for weeks well
it's also so personal too because it's like we put a lot
of hours into all of these products all sides
of it you know testing it designing it like all the little
(09:37):
changes and all that stuff so criticism is one
thing but just just straight like like you said oh
yeah you were out on the mountain two days and this is the worst vinyl pack
ever huh like it's just like i don't know peanut gallery
well and not just in not just in you
know the the realm you guys are in you look at packs and people
have have their opinion on on packs and this pack sucks and this
(09:58):
and it's like dude i've seen like you didn't have
your damn load lifters secured you know they weren't
clipped in why are you down in the pack yeah what do you mean my little
the dude's talking about how bad his pack isn't in the picture on
instagram what the load lifters aren't even
attached yeah yeah and i'm like hook your load lifters up and don't dog the
pack maybe it's like boots you know like boots i mean like what fits you great
(10:21):
yeah doesn't fit me great that doesn't mean the boot sucks hey i'm I'm the only
guy I know that runs around in Salewa's all day, every day on the mountain.
And I've seen one person here.
One person at the utah show yeah and that's it
and all the events all year no one knows about salewa yeah
great boot for me but everybody's in you know a
(10:43):
c-name boot sure and that i don't like yeah yeah
there you go and i'm not i'm not a fan of and it's
not because it's a bad boot it's because it doesn't work for my
odd ass foot right well i tried to love the salewas and
they just didn't fit my foot but that doesn't mean it's a bad boot it's just
it just doesn't fit me which boot i don't remember man it's been
a couple years so i don't remember that raven gtx x
yeah i maybe i need to revisit it it's it's
(11:05):
been a couple years so they they that i
don't know what it is about that boot and my foot it's like
married it's the perfect width it's the perfect length interesting you know
it just been a wonderful boot i just believe in the heck out of and they want
nothing to do with hunting sure zero they're an italian mountaineering company
yeah and they're like hunting what yeah you know but i love i love the damn
(11:27):
boot man but But, you know, the point of that, if folks are listening,
because I'll just tangent like a son of a bitch, is what fits for you,
fit and function for you is not the same across the board, right?
I mean, it's just like, come on, test the gear, beat it up like Jason,
and then form an opinion, right?
And if something feels off, adjust a little bit, right? Look at the size bar.
(11:48):
Talk about the bino harness, and you're putting 12s in a harness that's supposed to be for 8 and 10s.
Right. And then you got your phone and your Garmin and your wind checker and
your knife and a pistol, everything strapped to this thing. And you're talking
about, it's uncomfortable.
You just took something that's supposed to take 1.5, 1.8 pounds and you got
(12:10):
12 GD pounds on this thing, right?
It's not going to function the same, right? It's just, it's crazy to me.
So let's talk, let's talk gear. We're I'm bashing the peanut gallery,
not the boys, me. I'm bashing the.
So let's talk about the new offerings because i think when we sat down last
time was at western hunt fest and we and it was really the vinyl harness at
(12:32):
the time yep yeah so since then we came out with a rangefinder because we didn't
have a rangefinder at that point rangefinder pocket,
came out with a rangefinder pocket and same kind of thing it was just like what
worked for us some people liked it some people didn't like it we're still we're
still battling the non-magnetic.
Rangefinder pocket for some reason that is like the bane of
(12:52):
my existence i don't know how many of of those things i have sewn but
i just i i can't get it we we've got function down
but i just can't get it to the level of function that we require to put it out
to market so we're like right there now for for a magnetic version and we will
be coming out with a magnetic pack as well here in the net well i'm not even
(13:12):
going to say when because every time i say when then it automatically.
Delays it by eight months somehow so sometime soon we're going to be coming
out with that stuff stuff.
But the big things that we've come out with now is the archery quiver.
And the nice thing about our archery quiver, it's a little bit different than
some of the other ones because it pivots.
So you can run it as a hip quiver or a field quiver, and you don't have to choose.
(13:35):
So it pivots 30 degrees forward. You can run it straight up or it can pivot 30 degrees back.
And then it's ambidextrous. Obviously you can put it on either side,
or you can pull the whole, what we call the belt drop portion that attaches
the belt to the actual quiver.
You can pull that completely off and attach it to
your your molly matrix on your backpack or whatever for like
a tack event or a western hunt fest or whatever so that's
(13:56):
our big one and then just a host of accessories for that
i've got a release pouch a little
pen sleeve for keeping score what else do we have a fleece line pocket for a
cell phone or like a single release a little d-ring loop our whole thing with
catamount is versatility so talking about you know your setup up not working
for me our whole thing is we like to build something that can be stripped down to.
(14:21):
Just the bare necessities hold your arrows if you want to
just have it hold your arrows and that is it nothing else that that works if
you want to kit it i mean you can put the damn vinyl pack on it if you want
to you know everything can attach to that thing so that's that's our probably
our newest newest thing out and then i guess our newest newest thing is uh we've
got a rifle scope action and crown cover.
(14:44):
So it's the whole thing. Basically, it's not a sleeve that covers the entire
gun, but it wraps around your scope, covers the action, stops you from dropping
your magazine in the middle of the woods.
Then there's a crown protector on the Oh wow, I didn't even see that.
Then we got it for different size scopes. The end zips off, so if you have a
longer scope you can add a different sleeve on the end to expand it.
(15:05):
So you can use it for multiple rifles with different scope sizes.
Use that same cover for multiple scopes.
So one of the things you know i talked attention to detail right and
when you look at when you look at everything and then that modularity piece
that you were talking about when you look at everything what made you guys
decide and we talked about this once before to go
with the laser cutting instead of the stitch performance of
(15:28):
you know those molly and things like that i mean i would say if
i if i had to pick one thing
i mean it's the look i mean that the look just looks so clean
clean i think and i mean the function is there that
b52 material we use i mean i'll put it
up against any other molly matrix i mean we've got
a little in-reach pouch and i had a guy oh he might be listening he's in new
(15:50):
zealand he's a he's a guide down there and he was telling me that our in-reach
pouch was weak so i put it on a pull-up bar and you know did 30 pull-ups on
it and it's it's not weak that material is strong like yeah it's it's strong
material so what's the b52 it's two layers
of 500D Cordura that are laminated together.
And so when we laser cut it, that stops all the fraying, all that stuff.
(16:12):
And part of it is also in production, you don't have to do, you know,
a hundred bar tacks. You don't have to bar tack each one of it.
We put it in a laser and it lasers out everything and it just makes it nice
and clean. So. Lighter weight.
Lighter weight. I was going to say the weight aspect of that is phenomenal. Yeah.
Yeah. And that material is just bomb proof and it's i mean it it's we'll never
say our stuff is waterproof but it's about as water resistant without being
(16:37):
water you're not going to go scuba diving with the stuff but you
can get pretty damn close and just for folks listening so they understand when
you're when you're looking at that matrix that laser cut matrix you're cutting
down on stitch and that's where you'll see a lot of your your waterproof go
to that water resistant because as you're in that wet environment,
the stitch is what's absorbing the water and then that's going in the seams, blah, blah, blah.
(17:02):
So that definitely helps, especially when you look at something like your vinyl harness.
One of the reasons that Western Fly started was because the environment I was
hunting in, I always had fog glass. Always, right?
And yeah, it was dry inside. It wasn't saturated, you know, and that's kind of what spawned that.
It's the stitching, folks, that, you know, that really does it to you.
So when you're looking at, you know, something, you go, oh it's waterproof no that's
(17:24):
resistant as soon as there's a stitch on it it is water
resistant it's no longer waterproof so yeah yeah the other thing we do when
we laser cut is we also back it it's not just we back it with another layer
of 500d so really it's three layers of 500d plus foam like in the bino pack
the plus foam plus the liner so i mean you've got it's it's.
(17:47):
It's as waterproof, as water resistant as you can get without being waterproof.
Yeah. And that's one of the things like, you know, the wife had her first elk
tag this year and we were out at it. I mean, it's fourth season.
It's, it was going, you know, we had that, that early winter mix and she was
worried about it. And I go, nope, just let it go.
She's like, well, give me, I'm like, no, I I'm running the six Zulus,
but she wants, she wants the fly for hers.
(18:10):
And I'm like, no, Mark said it'd be fine. I told her that legit said,
Mark said, it'll be fine.
And was it? it it was dude she pulled him out and
she's like and i said see there you go and it
was it was a son of a gun of a season and she ran i
mean she doesn't hunt very hard right we're limited to
probably she's gonna hate for me to say that i'm gonna call it four miles the
(18:30):
four mile mark if that woman hasn't seen anything she's over it she's ready
to go back to the truck and drive somewhere else but we were in it and it performed
really well where it sits on her chest worked i I mean, almost perfect.
I mean, she's tried on every single harness that I have from MR to the K to the M.
(18:55):
And that one just, I mean, it just plumb works for her and her stature and everything.
And I mean, a perfect fit. Yeah. Perfect, perfect fit. I mean,
that's one of the hardest parts with designing anything like that is you're trying to fit.
I mean, you're trying to fit binoculars in how many different body types?
Fifteen. If you just base it on tags alone, not even talking about birds and
(19:16):
regular recreators that may get a harness, 15 million hunting licenses sold.
You got to have one design to fit 15 million different people.
And everybody's so different.
You know what I mean? And that's one of the things like where we're constantly making little changes.
Like I'll have to get you one of the newer yokes that we're making because Jason,
(19:36):
he's got a bigger neck than I have.
And so it worked for him, but he was like, you know, we could make this a little bit
better just by widening out that yoke just a little bit making it
right on the shoulders just a little bit more inline change
we're going to make that inline change you know we're not we're not
stuck in any single design any any
specific idea it's like if we get feedback from somebody
(19:56):
that's like we need to change this little thing i mean
we try our best to to make those changes happen yeah
i think one thing we're not going to go away from this like we want
our bino pack always fully enclosed so like on our newest version that sides
have elastic so it's always fully enclosed to keep like you were saying the
water keep your hopefully keep your vinyls from fogging up getting lots pine
(20:19):
needles and debris from coming in there so there's others in the market that
have openings on the bottom and oh man that that open stuff when you look at.
Central coast california i was hunting from june or july i forget when that
season opened but it's It's a zone and it's dry.
It's hot as hell. It's dusty, man.
You open, as soon as you open up that harness and, and you're,
(20:42):
I mean, no shit, right? This is experience. 115 degrees.
Soon as i open it sweat hits my lens what do i have from all
the dust i got a little bit of mud on there try and look through that glass
like that man so i think the full enclosure is the only
way to go when it comes to a harness in my opinion and
not again i i did that to say it's
not just a water thing too right just keeping
(21:04):
those dust and debris out man it's huge especially on some
of the you look at swarovs or something you guys got 3 200 bucks
and some swarovs yeah yeah not me we'll
just say that in closer night when
you're pulling your binos out you're possibly looking at an animal you
don't want to be sitting there cleaning your lungs i've had to do it so many
times in that environment and there's no yeah there's no getting around a full
(21:27):
enclosure in my opinion and those zulus fit in that harness i think that that
harness takes care of the zulus in that odd shape probably better than i'd say
just about everybody else on the market it's good Good to hear those.
Those I run the Zulu six, the twelves.
So they're 12 by 42s, but it's just an odd shade body and it sits in there.
(21:47):
So freaking nice, man. So nice.
So the quiver, when the quiver hit, that's been a couple of months now.
It's been a couple, maybe two weeks.
It's only been a couple of weeks. Yeah. It's brand, brand new.
That thing is nice. Yeah.
It's pretty sweet. Super streamlined too. That that's one of the things.
And I guess that lends itself to the, the laser cutting and taking that bar tack out of there.
(22:08):
But it's so freaking streamlined and that's the worst especially
when you're at you know a western hunt fest attack or a
math and you're and you're beating around and you got this thing clacking
on the side and beating you up and you know and we like to put more shit than
it should in there totally i really like the factory that we can i'm short i'm
five six so being able to tilt that back so my arrows aren't digging into my
(22:29):
armpit if i have it on the side and i don't have to be swinging it back and
forth a lot better than leaning the arrows one way or the other too i think
And you still have that option too.
I mean, you don't have to pick one of anything, you know, like not to bash any
of the other ones, but I mean, typically in the past you have to pick a lane.
You want it on your right side facing forward.
Do you want it, you know, facing backwards, straight up? Like you kind of have to pick one.
(22:51):
And with ours, you kind of get the best of all worlds because you can change
it on the fly if you need to.
You know, if you want to face him forward right now and the next target facing
backwards for some reason, have at it. Yeah.
So you were saying that you could attach it to your pack. How does that work?
So the whole back has a MOLLE matrix on the back as well. Laser cut.
Yep. It's all laser cut stuff. And then you can, it's two pieces.
So there's an upper that we call the belt drop. That's where your belt feeds
(23:13):
through, which let me circle back around to that. That's another product we
have is a stretch lock belt.
I was going to say, we didn't talk about the belt. I saw that yesterday. yeah i
think it's sweet man anybody that conceals like does concealed
carry it's like that belt has never met a gun it
didn't love it is sweet but anyway getting
off track it attaches to the pack by removing that belt
drop portion there's four snaps to hold the whole thing together three
(23:35):
up top that are 30 degrees space and then one
down in the center you just pull that whole thing off and then
it's just like a molly snap system slap it
on any any pack that's got a molly matrix tricks whether it's
laser cut i mean it'll work with any of them so laser cut bar
tack style doesn't matter it'll work on all of them yeah
there's a couple dividers on the inside so if you're shooting tack you
(23:57):
have an arrow that's cracked you want to keep your
components put that in a the other sleeve keep your other
ones in the other sleeve and yeah don't remind
me of busted arrows right we were talking
efren and i were talking i just build a bunch we're about
to start the western hunt fest season he goes how much do
each of your arrows cost at this point and dude
(24:19):
i started to figure it out dude i'm probably close to
50 or 60 dollars with broadhead yeah on an arrow at this point dude i'm like
that's insane insane no my wife gives me all kinds of all kinds of crap because
it's like i'm a tinkerer i'm like i don't know how many different shafts i have
down there and then you start mixing and matching different components And she's like.
(24:40):
You can't out, you're not good enough to settle on one and just go with it.
Well, that's it, you know, good on her.
Cause that's what I've done in the last few years. I started shooting the aerotech
MTs and the owner of that company.
I met Robert at, I think it was a math event, maybe four years ago.
And it just, it's just been a solid air. It's probably one of the most durable
(25:02):
arrows I've ever shot, but there's no spine line on that arrow.
Like the way that they build them is they're not wrapping sheets.
They're going over the mandrel and somehow weaving over it. Like it's proprietary somehow.
But, man, super consistent, but durable. I have the same arrows that I got from
him four or five years ago. I'm still shooting them to this day. Nice.
(25:24):
And they were a little bit longer, so the new bow, I wanted a little bit more.
I'm going with a wide broadhead this year, so a little bit more weight up front.
I had to bring the arrow down because they're only a 300 spine just to get a
little stiffness out of it. Holy crap, I love those arrows.
But still, 50 or 60 bucks an arrow with components and broadheads.
Yeah, it seems like no matter what brand you buy, you're going to end up right at that $40 to $50 level.
(25:48):
It doesn't even make sense. I wish he didn't even tell me about it because I'm
like, so now I'm dissecting what I have left to build.
It's going to make me fearful of losing any arrows through the 3D season.
You know, it's like, dang, I definitely am not shooting at anything with a two-inch hole in steel.
You know, it's like, no, I'm good, man. I'm good. It's crazy.
But the money that we spend as hunters is phenomenal. You know,
(26:12):
especially the majority of us are blue-collar guys and gals.
For sure you know and we love our gear you know i
wouldn't mind shooting 50 60 70 dollar arrows
if it was just putting them through animals but it's all
that practice and i mean i find myself when i
get super expensive stuff like that it's like you find yourself i'm
not going to take that risk i'm not going to try to you know thread that
(26:33):
thread that little gap it's why it just hurts
when you hear the quack and it's not in the target oh
you know that's why i buy two dozen spin them all then the
ones that are the best go over here the ones that aren't so good go over here
these are my all practice ones yeah yeah and there's
not enough very like mark saying there's not enough
good shooter in me to out shoot that
(26:53):
variant yeah out of it right yeah 0.003.001
i'm not good enough to notice the difference man and people don't
even realize what that means everybody goes and they they buy
those those 001s and spend what 40
50 60 dollars more it's like dude stop at
003 if you want to get there if you're that anal but 006
(27:14):
for what we do it's plenty freaking good you're talking
you're talking less than a human hair
of variant in 006 to
001 like that's can you shoot that good like consistently like i mean you know
in my garage with no wind on my best day 15 yards i might get lucky to shoot
(27:34):
001 yeah for sure yeah i find myself i end up getting 001s just because it's a head thing.
It's a mental thing. You know, it's like... Human hair, buddy.
Yeah, I know. It doesn't make any sense. Like, what if I... Yeah,
I just don't let my wife see how much I'm spending on it and then we're good.
You need to listen to the first podcast I did with Kyle Davidson,
(27:55):
a DCA Custom Arrows. And he explains it to a T.
That was the last time I worried about 001.
It was like, there is no reason for me to spend the extra money.
Yeah. Because you figure now,
40 bucks, if I buy... if I buy hit inserts from Iron Will, which I love.
Six, half a dozen inserts at 25 grains cost me $46, right?
(28:18):
There's the difference between the 003s and the 001s, you know,
and then it's far greater than that when you go 06 to 001.
And you have really good quality components.
Yeah. I mean, I've seen, there's some really good component companies,
but what always stood about Bill outside of
his meticulous nature and design is the
(28:39):
consistency from batch to batch to batch to batch to batch
sure right less than and i i'm this
guy so i get i'll get veins i shoot the super
sabers uh from dca and i get a hundred
pack of one color a hundred pack of another color and each single
vein gets weighed and set into a pile every single
200 oh you're right there you're right there whatever it is you know that that
(29:00):
six and a half seven seven and a half ish and i weigh everything yeah bill's
consistency from batch to batch to batch year after year year after year has
been some of the tightest I've seen across the entire realm. And I'm a tinkerer.
I mean, I got everything just uber consistent. And that just breeds confidence.
(29:21):
You slap that on the end of your arrow. You just know that it's going to perform.
It's one less thing to worry about.
That's the worst thing in any gear, right? Is inconsistency.
Sure. Right. Be it customer service in build, build quality.
Yeah. I hate inconsistency. Like I call you about my, my in reach pocket.
I'd expect the same from my range finder pocket or other quiver. Right.
(29:42):
So that, that I love it, man. When someone's consistent across the board.
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.
So Jason and I have never talked. What's your deal, man? What's your,
what's your animal of choice? What gets your, your blood boiling?
I'd say elk, archery elk. I started archery hunting 2018 and yeah,
(30:03):
I was rifle hunting before that.
And yeah, I started hunting when I was in 12, 10. I moved up in North Dakota,
just rifle hunting, white tails.
And I mean, the big picture that's, that's fairly new to the game,
right? I mean, a lifetime of hunting.
Then what made you step into archery? Colorado over the counter.
(30:23):
Rifle hunting. There you go. And I had other buddies. I was like September with a bow. No snow.
Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. And then, yeah, after that first year, I went solo and killed
a calf, brown calf, and then packed it out.
One trip myself, a hundred yards at a time, take a break a hundred yards at
a time. He was three or four miles.
(30:44):
And I got back to the truck at 3 a.m., packed it up. and then
after that went in yeah 2019 and killed
a six by six seven miles in and then
i had a fool i called i called in help i had
help there and uh it was like 21 miles of
economic that's brutal but i had help so it
was that's counting with everybody's health so so how is that
(31:05):
how is that second year experience spoiled you in september
yeah i looked back on it i was like i'm ready to
do it again yeah how many repeats since i've killed
a few bulls since then nothing as big
as that one there it is but so yeah
it spoiled me but yeah i we
went out i have a daughter that hunts too she's actually 22 now
(31:27):
we went out it wasn't last year was the year before and
she had she'd been hunting with me rifle hunting with me for
years and she was 15 and she'd never killed now
she's helped pack multiple out with multiple buddies
and she's just never had a chance to pull the trigger so last year we went in
on an over-the-counter tag or maybe it was a leftover tag i don't remember but
(31:47):
we went in and first opening day we got into an area and we i was like let's
stay here do some cow calling and yeah six by six came running in i think it was a 290 bowl.
Yeah 295 around 300 we didn't really measure them but yeah she blasted him at
like 60 yards he just So I was calling her spot and stop guy, spot and stuff. Yeah.
(32:10):
Depends on the area I'll call, but I think it's a good spot.
Jason's probably the most consistent mover i've ever
hunted with like there's no time for lunch breaks there's
no time like we're moving we are going i've killed yeah
i killed uh two years ago i killed my bull in a
dry unit and it was yeah right around 11 10 11 o'clock we're we're 80 percent
(32:34):
of the guys are already back in camp for lunch and campfire and everything else
that's the magic time of the day you asked me yeah it's that's a blast we've
got a sticker and like Like Catamount's got a little saying, we're already this far.
And I mean, I know that's not our saying, but that comes straight from him because
we hear that 40, 50 times a trip with Jason.
He's like, what's over that next ridge?
(32:55):
We're already this far. Keep going. So, yeah.
Worst case, we backtrack. I mean, honestly, that's the right mindset, right?
I mean, if we're talking about what we do, especially with September elk, right?
We have limited time to get it done. and
and in that 27 day window
i think is what the season is we have recreators and
(33:17):
we have muzzle yeah the muzzle are muzzy boys and girls but yeah that's the
that's really the only mindset like we wait all year we talk about it all year
and then guys are hyped to get out there and they go and they sit in camp 90
of the time it's like what are you jack lake fuckers doing you know yeah.
That's not how our camps go. I mean, you spend way too much time prepping for
(33:40):
everything with all the gear, like we were talking about all that gear testing and all that stuff.
And I mean, you've got a finite amount of time and you're lucky if you get,
I mean, most people are lucky if they get a whole week, you know what I mean?
With, with all work obligation, family obligation, you're running your own business.
That doesn't stop when you go out in the woods.
The average guy, I found this out last year, the average guy in September,
(34:01):
four and a half days is what they get on the mountain. And I was, I was blown away by that.
I was like, no, four and a half days.
So 361 days of preparation.
Anticipation is what that amounts to. It's crazy. So many people quit before they start, you know?
I mean, they, they just, they, you think, you think if you guys,
(34:23):
if a guy has a seven day hunt, he drives out, gets here, hikes in, not seeing anything.
By the time he hikes out, he's going to take a break and go back in.
By the time that adds up four days sounds about right. That's crazy to me.
Takes a day to break or storms roll in. Yeah. Four days. It's brutal.
So let's give them the elevator pitch for Catamount.
(34:45):
Why should they check Catamount out? Why does Catamount deserve to be on the
pack, on the chest, on the hip? Put me on the spot here.
I mean, I'm obviously very biased, but I just think we make the best gear.
I think we have the best customer service. You message us. We message you back within minutes.
I mean, the company phone number is my phone number. You can call me.
(35:08):
I don't care if it's two in the morning for some reason.
You give me a call, I will pick up the phone. So, I mean, I'd just say customer
service and we're constantly improving the product. We're constantly listening.
We're not too big or our egos aren't big enough to where we don't listen to people.
So I think that's probably the biggest thing that kind of sets us apart from
(35:28):
other people is we just make good stuff, man. And then it's attention to detail and quality.
And we're not outsourcing to China. Everything's American made down to the thread,
the needle, Colorado made.
And it's and then where can they find catamount catamount
og.com catamount outdoor gear instagram
(35:49):
we're on instagram we've got a lackluster presence
on facebook like i said i try to stay out of that dumpster fire because i just
get in trouble but yeah instagram is probably the best spot for us and then
if they head to the website we've got a chat feature there that goes to me and
jason direct instagram same thing and jason direct somebody will answer no matter
what who's Who's doing the booty shaking on TikTok?
(36:12):
We have a TikTok, but we haven't. We haven't. We're still looking for that. So email Guy.
He's going to do some dances for us. Yeah, I recently put Western Hunt Fest
and Western Contours on TikTok.
And I think I already have threats of being banned.
(36:34):
I got all into, okay, this is going to be our year for social media presence.
So I started a TikTok. talk i posted one video maybe
i posted two videos and say hell with this i'm not yeah i'm
not about it like it's so hard it's just a dumpster fire but yeah there's our
thing is just just trying to stay positive you know instagram seems to be our
friend that seems to be the most engaging place for us yeah i've noticed it
(36:59):
in the short time that we've been over on that tiktok thing it's uh Dude,
and I intentionally did not show what I thought was going to be considered offensive.
I mean, you're talking like you have to look...
And I mean, immediately your post has been removed. This is a warning. It's just random.
(37:20):
I mean, like you, you see guys that post pictures, gripping grins and all that stuff. And it's fine.
Jason, I don't know. I guess it was right before last rifle season.
Jason just put up a post with just his rifle, the catamount pack,
all that stuff. And we got a warning.
And it was like, how is this violent in any way? It's literally,
it's, we're not even showing like dead animals or anything here.
(37:41):
But there are posts of women mock breastfeeding dolls to show nipples on there
that don't get flagged. Like, are you kidding me?
I just get on this thing and I see this and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
And then they send me a warning.
I mean, Jason's post could not. I mean, he didn't even say.
And I mean, even in the dialogue, you know, in the caption, it wasn't any.
(38:05):
It was just like, make sure to, you know, breakfast is coming up. Yeah.
Tag us in your tag us in your hunt or whatever. it was something
so benign and it was like really that's what our warning is
i text him and i was like dude no more gun posts and he's like you gotta be fucking
kidding me it's crazy yeah he's like you see all these other people
posting all this other stuff that's like like that nonsense and it's just like
they can get away with it but i could not believe that that was a thing you
(38:29):
have to be the most demented sick mother yeah to get on there and think that
that's something that you You should be double tapping. Well, how is that?
Really? How is that? Okay. I mean, there's little kids on there,
man. Exactly. How is that?
Okay. But a picture of a fucking gun is not okay. I don't get it.
And it's, and the context in my head, the context has nothing to do with the
(38:50):
act that they're showing because it's a fucking dog.
So some perv dude, you know what I mean? Yeah. I listened to a podcast and they
mentioned that exact thing.
And they were saying that they get around it because they consider it educational.
And it's like, well, why can't we be educational? You know, like you post a
picture of you skinning an elk or something like that, you're probably gonna get pulled.
(39:11):
That's way more useful information than this crazy broad.
And that part of their thing talks about culture and things like that.
And it's like, well, that's what that is. If they stopped and they looked at
it across the entire world, if it was not for hunting, there's no way that the food industry,
in any way, shape, or form, how they produce food, be it farming,
(39:33):
ranching, the damn farms that they hate or whatever, the factory farming.
I mean, there is no way that they can keep up with the amount of people that
are on this planet and produce enough food.
So without hunting, there's cultures that don't have sustenance.
How is that not viable to people, society at large?
(39:55):
It just boggles my flipping mind. Well, it's not like this is a new thing.
You know, hunting is not a new thing, obviously. People have been doing it forever.
So I don't understand where the hate comes from. Well, we do.
We all know where the hate comes from. I mean, a rifle is just a tool.
Maybe fishing poles should be on there because they're catching fish.
Car accidents. I mean, the list goes on and on, right? But then they say,
(40:16):
oh, these guys, they just want to go out and kill. They're cynical about everything.
But anywho, that's just stray from Catamount. But, you know,
I mean, for the folks listening, we get on that topic.
I mean, these are people that support what we do and love what we do.
They're passionate about the outdoors and, you know, family men.
So check out Catamount Gear.
Support these guys. If you have any questions, reach out to Mark or Jason.
(40:36):
And, uh, yeah, thanks for listening. Appreciate you. Thanks boys.
Music.
Music.
(00:07):
To become better hunters. Whether you're chasing bugles over the next ridge,
sitting a stand out east, this is about passion, pursuing our dreams afield,
our lifestyle, the betterment of self and community, the enlightenment that
comes from those moments spent in God's creation.
Through these conversations, I hope you find insight, inspiration,
education, and motivation to push beyond your limits.
(00:29):
We're red, bud, and hot sitting here at Mile High Hunting Fish Expo with the
Catamount Boys, Mark Johnson and Jason,
juke just jokey jokey damn it i was
like there's some silent letters in that sob close enough
i have one of those last names man so i apologize so man
has been a whirlwind right i mean catamount two years now been three years total
(00:53):
three years total okay total so two year we kind of count as a as it's a write-off
so i was just teaching myself how to sew right so so two years to market yes
right and then that that year and i know very well about i'm gonna start Start
sewing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Right? I mean, you guys have been fast and furious. What's impressed me,
you know, kind of watching it is the...
(01:15):
Extraordinary attention to detail on things, right?
I mean, that's absolutely obvious in what you're doing. I mean,
even with some of the social posts, you can see it, right? You're laser cutting and things like that.
But to see the overall build and not understand how you guys are manufacturing
and things like that on the consumer end, to look at a piece and go, holy crap,
(01:38):
there's some time and effort being spent into that. How's it been, man? man.
You nailed it when you said it's a whirlwind. That's for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Trying to come out with new stuff like consistently, but not put out anything
that's like subpar or just not needed.
That's kind of the struggle. Like just, yeah. I mean, it's just one of those
things where everybody's so different that like you can come out with something
(01:59):
you think it's, you know, God's gift to hunting.
And then everybody else is like, man, I would never use it.
So that's kind of the balance of trying to, to, to spitball new things and then
also test new things and And idea fruition or idea necessity,
fruition, failure, success.
I mean, it's kind of like the top five and that, you know, especially,
(02:20):
and forgive me for saying it, right.
Don't take offense, that garage business, right.
Startup type deal, right. With me and Western fly was the same thing.
I did something cause I had a need and then kind of spawn,
you know, and for me, it's been rough cause it's still just me just,
you know, and it's, I was telling somebody earlier we were
(02:41):
talking about it was chris rowe matter of fact he was asking me how it was
going and i go i'm a i'm an absolute seamstress at this
point i seem sure yeah i
mean i mean jason and
i do 99 of everything like i mean we're not we're not big enough to do big giant
runs of things and all that kind of stuff so yeah i mean we're in the same boat
(03:03):
as you i mean we're we're essentially a one-man band and we're just kind of
we wear way too many hats at this point you know like you kind of gotta get your feet in or.
I don't know what the phrasing would be, but you kind of got to have your toes in every pond.
Right. You can't just stick in one thing. I mean, honestly, once you go,
and it's not even a dip your toe in the water, right?
(03:24):
It's either you're going to go with a product or you're not going to go with
a product at this point, right? Yeah, sure. How does that risk feel?
I mean, we're a little bit different than some companies because we have no outside investment.
So it's just all our money. So we refuse to take on investors and,
you know, be bought and sold, be told what we need to do, how we need to market
things like we're not going to do that. We never will do that.
(03:47):
We're I'll close the doors before we do anything like that.
Like we want to do things our way because the way that we're doing it,
we think is the right way.
And I mean, whether the whole market thinks that it's the right way,
you're never going to appease everybody.
But I mean, everybody that's using our gear so far loves it.
I mean, and we take everything to heart.
So like if anybody has any negative criticism, we encourage them to tell nitpick everything apart.
(04:11):
If you see anything you don't like about it, we want to hear everything so we
can, we can just dial in the next
version. You know, we're just constantly evolving, constantly improving.
That's the goal. So, and that, that's a big thing, right? When,
when I got the initial harness from me, I think that was the gen one harness.
You asked me how it was. I said, it has a little, you know, I got to fix,
send it to me. I never sent it because my wife took it over and she's like,
(04:32):
I love this thing. That was the Gen 2, actually.
Was it the Gen 2? But we made an inline change to the Gen 2.
The Gen 1 kind of, we had an interesting, I call it interesting.
I liked the closure on the top.
It was a little bit different, but people just couldn't wrap their head around that closure system.
So that's the perfect example of something that just had to just die because
it worked for us. I mean, it worked for Jason, worked for a lot of our friends.
(04:55):
Everybody liked it that we were running with. But then as soon as it got out
to the masses, it was like, people were like, eh, it's, it's so,
it was so different than what everybody else was doing that I thought it was good. And it was.
Different enough that I thought that it would sell because it was different
enough, but it went the complete opposite direction.
It was two different people, a good product. You shouldn't have to explain,
(05:18):
right? You shouldn't have to teach somebody how to use a product.
It should be pretty dumbed down and pretty simple.
And as simple as that lid seemed to me, people just couldn't get their head
around it. And that's fine. That's fine. But how do you flip that?
How do you, because that's the standout stuff, right? That's the stuff that's
going to set in my head that's going to set catamount apart
from the other manufacturers in that one particular
(05:39):
product right so how how do you do that
how do you how do you say that this is the reason
we're doing it and have it take hold and really you're just we're retraining
the market i mean that's the hard part with it right this is a regular enclosure
and every freaking bino harness has this enclosure this is an improvement why
do we have to sell the improvement it's crazy to me Yeah. I mean,
(06:00):
maybe we could, maybe I killed it too early.
You know, I don't know. I got nervous real fast because we sunk a bunch of money
into that. I was going to say, and it's your money.
It's our money. Yeah. So it's not like just, yeah, some guy writing a check.
It's like, it's my money. I mean, I've got a, I've got four daughters.
I mean, I can't just sink a hundred percent of my money into this thing, you know?
So we're, we're pretty diligent about where we choose to make changes in that stuff.
(06:22):
But we do, I think we talked about this last time. We, We have a spreadsheet
that is literally every comment that we get when people email us or call us
or if you tell me just in passing, hey, we don't like this or we like this.
I write everything down.
And so, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of just evolution, man.
We just kind of just keep evolving, keep making changes, keep testing stuff
(06:42):
like that's Jason's strength is he beats the shit out of everything.
And I mean, that's great to have somebody who can just thrash stuff.
Right. Because, yeah, I mean, if it works for Jason, it's going to work for
everybody. Pretty hard on gear, yeah.
And then our return rate's really, really low. That's what we're striving for. We've had one return.
No way in the two years. Across everything, we've had one return.
(07:05):
That doesn't mean everybody loves everything.
I mean, there's a lot of people that just, eh, they've got disposable income.
I'll just sell it on RockSlide or whatever.
I'm sure that's happened. But we've had one return, and that was not,
I'll say that wasn't our fault.
That was a sizing issue. and the guy chose a size that was, he was trying to
stuff way too big of binos in the pack.
So it wasn't even like a function issue. It was just chose the wrong thing.
(07:28):
So you brought up seeing it for selling it on Rockslide.
Have you seen any of that? Do
you watch it? Do you find yourself obsessing over things like that at all?
Man, I try to stay up. You touched on the social media stuff earlier and like
I am the kind of guy that posts and then I just leave.
Like I just, I don't know. There's just...
(07:49):
Social media is a very double-edged sword and it's real sharp on both sides
you know there's like the,
the camaraderie and all that stuff in some sections and then
there's just straight hate spewers and it's
just like it's hard to to shut your mouth sometimes
and not bark back and so i find myself just
if i just don't see it you know like if i i just
(08:09):
can't engage right with some of that stuff but i just want to keep
things positive trying to stay in our lane and keep moving forward it yeah
that's all you could do i mean it's i don't know for me and
maybe it's it's just the experience of of
dealing with the things over the last few years and what i see and
really i'm on the outside of things you know in the podcast realm and i do it
for passion for fun right just because i like the conversations so when i see
(08:33):
it it doesn't it doesn't affect me i know in no offense to folks listening this
is guy's mouth not jason or mark the flipping peanut gallery when it comes to
that stuff is, is comical to me.
It's like, how many days you spent on the mountain this year in that, you know, two.
Oh, okay. So that's, that's a hell of an opinion to draft for two,
for two days on the mountain.
You know, there's just little things like we're giving away a rifle at this
(08:55):
show, you know? And so I posted it up on a couple of Facebook pages and I mean,
the, the, the landslide of just hate was just like, that's crazy.
Wow. I'm just, we're just trying to give away a rifle yeah yeah so
i mean we're kind of in and out of the social
media stuff like we engage with people and all that stuff and
i should say the vast majority of people
(09:16):
are great you know but it's hard not
to focus in on the negative you
could have a thousand good one bad one and
that one bad one will fly in your head for weeks well
it's also so personal too because it's like we put a lot
of hours into all of these products all sides
of it you know testing it designing it like all the little
(09:37):
changes and all that stuff so criticism is one
thing but just just straight like like you said oh
yeah you were out on the mountain two days and this is the worst vinyl pack
ever huh like it's just like i don't know peanut gallery
well and not just in not just in you
know the the realm you guys are in you look at packs and people
have have their opinion on on packs and this pack sucks and this
(09:58):
and it's like dude i've seen like you didn't have
your damn load lifters secured you know they weren't
clipped in why are you down in the pack yeah what do you mean my little
the dude's talking about how bad his pack isn't in the picture on
instagram what the load lifters aren't even
attached yeah yeah and i'm like hook your load lifters up and don't dog the
pack maybe it's like boots you know like boots i mean like what fits you great
(10:21):
yeah doesn't fit me great that doesn't mean the boot sucks hey i'm I'm the only
guy I know that runs around in Salewa's all day, every day on the mountain.
And I've seen one person here.
One person at the utah show yeah and that's it
and all the events all year no one knows about salewa yeah
great boot for me but everybody's in you know a
(10:43):
c-name boot sure and that i don't like yeah yeah
there you go and i'm not i'm not a fan of and it's
not because it's a bad boot it's because it doesn't work for my
odd ass foot right well i tried to love the salewas and
they just didn't fit my foot but that doesn't mean it's a bad boot it's just
it just doesn't fit me which boot i don't remember man it's been
a couple years so i don't remember that raven gtx x
yeah i maybe i need to revisit it it's it's
(11:05):
been a couple years so they they that i
don't know what it is about that boot and my foot it's like
married it's the perfect width it's the perfect length interesting you know
it just been a wonderful boot i just believe in the heck out of and they want
nothing to do with hunting sure zero they're an italian mountaineering company
yeah and they're like hunting what yeah you know but i love i love the damn
(11:27):
boot man but But, you know, the point of that, if folks are listening,
because I'll just tangent like a son of a bitch, is what fits for you,
fit and function for you is not the same across the board, right?
I mean, it's just like, come on, test the gear, beat it up like Jason,
and then form an opinion, right?
And if something feels off, adjust a little bit, right? Look at the size bar.
(11:48):
Talk about the bino harness, and you're putting 12s in a harness that's supposed to be for 8 and 10s.
Right. And then you got your phone and your Garmin and your wind checker and
your knife and a pistol, everything strapped to this thing. And you're talking
about, it's uncomfortable.
You just took something that's supposed to take 1.5, 1.8 pounds and you got
(12:10):
12 GD pounds on this thing, right?
It's not going to function the same, right? It's just, it's crazy to me.
So let's talk, let's talk gear. We're I'm bashing the peanut gallery,
not the boys, me. I'm bashing the.
So let's talk about the new offerings because i think when we sat down last
time was at western hunt fest and we and it was really the vinyl harness at
(12:32):
the time yep yeah so since then we came out with a rangefinder because we didn't
have a rangefinder at that point rangefinder pocket,
came out with a rangefinder pocket and same kind of thing it was just like what
worked for us some people liked it some people didn't like it we're still we're
still battling the non-magnetic.
Rangefinder pocket for some reason that is like the bane of
(12:52):
my existence i don't know how many of of those things i have sewn but
i just i i can't get it we we've got function down
but i just can't get it to the level of function that we require to put it out
to market so we're like right there now for for a magnetic version and we will
be coming out with a magnetic pack as well here in the net well i'm not even
(13:12):
going to say when because every time i say when then it automatically.
Delays it by eight months somehow so sometime soon we're going to be coming
out with that stuff stuff.
But the big things that we've come out with now is the archery quiver.
And the nice thing about our archery quiver, it's a little bit different than
some of the other ones because it pivots.
So you can run it as a hip quiver or a field quiver, and you don't have to choose.
(13:35):
So it pivots 30 degrees forward. You can run it straight up or it can pivot 30 degrees back.
And then it's ambidextrous. Obviously you can put it on either side,
or you can pull the whole, what we call the belt drop portion that attaches
the belt to the actual quiver.
You can pull that completely off and attach it to
your your molly matrix on your backpack or whatever for like
a tack event or a western hunt fest or whatever so that's
(13:56):
our big one and then just a host of accessories for that
i've got a release pouch a little
pen sleeve for keeping score what else do we have a fleece line pocket for a
cell phone or like a single release a little d-ring loop our whole thing with
catamount is versatility so talking about you know your setup up not working
for me our whole thing is we like to build something that can be stripped down to.
(14:21):
Just the bare necessities hold your arrows if you want to
just have it hold your arrows and that is it nothing else that that works if
you want to kit it i mean you can put the damn vinyl pack on it if you want
to you know everything can attach to that thing so that's that's our probably
our newest newest thing out and then i guess our newest newest thing is uh we've
got a rifle scope action and crown cover.
(14:44):
So it's the whole thing. Basically, it's not a sleeve that covers the entire
gun, but it wraps around your scope, covers the action, stops you from dropping
your magazine in the middle of the woods.
Then there's a crown protector on the Oh wow, I didn't even see that.
Then we got it for different size scopes. The end zips off, so if you have a
longer scope you can add a different sleeve on the end to expand it.
(15:05):
So you can use it for multiple rifles with different scope sizes.
Use that same cover for multiple scopes.
So one of the things you know i talked attention to detail right and
when you look at when you look at everything and then that modularity piece
that you were talking about when you look at everything what made you guys
decide and we talked about this once before to go
with the laser cutting instead of the stitch performance of
(15:28):
you know those molly and things like that i mean i would say if
i if i had to pick one thing
i mean it's the look i mean that the look just looks so clean
clean i think and i mean the function is there that
b52 material we use i mean i'll put it
up against any other molly matrix i mean we've got
a little in-reach pouch and i had a guy oh he might be listening he's in new
(15:50):
zealand he's a he's a guide down there and he was telling me that our in-reach
pouch was weak so i put it on a pull-up bar and you know did 30 pull-ups on
it and it's it's not weak that material is strong like yeah it's it's strong
material so what's the b52 it's two layers
of 500D Cordura that are laminated together.
And so when we laser cut it, that stops all the fraying, all that stuff.
(16:12):
And part of it is also in production, you don't have to do, you know,
a hundred bar tacks. You don't have to bar tack each one of it.
We put it in a laser and it lasers out everything and it just makes it nice
and clean. So. Lighter weight.
Lighter weight. I was going to say the weight aspect of that is phenomenal. Yeah.
Yeah. And that material is just bomb proof and it's i mean it it's we'll never
say our stuff is waterproof but it's about as water resistant without being
(16:37):
water you're not going to go scuba diving with the stuff but you
can get pretty damn close and just for folks listening so they understand when
you're when you're looking at that matrix that laser cut matrix you're cutting
down on stitch and that's where you'll see a lot of your your waterproof go
to that water resistant because as you're in that wet environment,
the stitch is what's absorbing the water and then that's going in the seams, blah, blah, blah.
(17:02):
So that definitely helps, especially when you look at something like your vinyl harness.
One of the reasons that Western Fly started was because the environment I was
hunting in, I always had fog glass. Always, right?
And yeah, it was dry inside. It wasn't saturated, you know, and that's kind of what spawned that.
It's the stitching, folks, that, you know, that really does it to you.
So when you're looking at, you know, something, you go, oh it's waterproof no that's
(17:24):
resistant as soon as there's a stitch on it it is water
resistant it's no longer waterproof so yeah yeah the other thing we do when
we laser cut is we also back it it's not just we back it with another layer
of 500d so really it's three layers of 500d plus foam like in the bino pack
the plus foam plus the liner so i mean you've got it's it's.
(17:47):
It's as waterproof, as water resistant as you can get without being waterproof.
Yeah. And that's one of the things like, you know, the wife had her first elk
tag this year and we were out at it. I mean, it's fourth season.
It's, it was going, you know, we had that, that early winter mix and she was
worried about it. And I go, nope, just let it go.
She's like, well, give me, I'm like, no, I I'm running the six Zulus,
but she wants, she wants the fly for hers.
(18:10):
And I'm like, no, Mark said it'd be fine. I told her that legit said,
Mark said, it'll be fine.
And was it? it it was dude she pulled him out and
she's like and i said see there you go and it
was it was a son of a gun of a season and she ran i
mean she doesn't hunt very hard right we're limited to
probably she's gonna hate for me to say that i'm gonna call it four miles the
(18:30):
four mile mark if that woman hasn't seen anything she's over it she's ready
to go back to the truck and drive somewhere else but we were in it and it performed
really well where it sits on her chest worked i I mean, almost perfect.
I mean, she's tried on every single harness that I have from MR to the K to the M.
(18:55):
And that one just, I mean, it just plumb works for her and her stature and everything.
And I mean, a perfect fit. Yeah. Perfect, perfect fit. I mean,
that's one of the hardest parts with designing anything like that is you're trying to fit.
I mean, you're trying to fit binoculars in how many different body types?
Fifteen. If you just base it on tags alone, not even talking about birds and
(19:16):
regular recreators that may get a harness, 15 million hunting licenses sold.
You got to have one design to fit 15 million different people.
And everybody's so different.
You know what I mean? And that's one of the things like where we're constantly making little changes.
Like I'll have to get you one of the newer yokes that we're making because Jason,
(19:36):
he's got a bigger neck than I have.
And so it worked for him, but he was like, you know, we could make this a little bit
better just by widening out that yoke just a little bit making it
right on the shoulders just a little bit more inline change
we're going to make that inline change you know we're not we're not
stuck in any single design any any
specific idea it's like if we get feedback from somebody
(19:56):
that's like we need to change this little thing i mean
we try our best to to make those changes happen yeah
i think one thing we're not going to go away from this like we want
our bino pack always fully enclosed so like on our newest version that sides
have elastic so it's always fully enclosed to keep like you were saying the
water keep your hopefully keep your vinyls from fogging up getting lots pine
(20:19):
needles and debris from coming in there so there's others in the market that
have openings on the bottom and oh man that that open stuff when you look at.
Central coast california i was hunting from june or july i forget when that
season opened but it's It's a zone and it's dry.
It's hot as hell. It's dusty, man.
You open, as soon as you open up that harness and, and you're,
(20:42):
I mean, no shit, right? This is experience. 115 degrees.
Soon as i open it sweat hits my lens what do i have from all
the dust i got a little bit of mud on there try and look through that glass
like that man so i think the full enclosure is the only
way to go when it comes to a harness in my opinion and
not again i i did that to say it's
not just a water thing too right just keeping
(21:04):
those dust and debris out man it's huge especially on some
of the you look at swarovs or something you guys got 3 200 bucks
and some swarovs yeah yeah not me we'll
just say that in closer night when
you're pulling your binos out you're possibly looking at an animal you
don't want to be sitting there cleaning your lungs i've had to do it so many
times in that environment and there's no yeah there's no getting around a full
(21:27):
enclosure in my opinion and those zulus fit in that harness i think that that
harness takes care of the zulus in that odd shape probably better than i'd say
just about everybody else on the market it's good Good to hear those.
Those I run the Zulu six, the twelves.
So they're 12 by 42s, but it's just an odd shade body and it sits in there.
(21:47):
So freaking nice, man. So nice.
So the quiver, when the quiver hit, that's been a couple of months now.
It's been a couple, maybe two weeks.
It's only been a couple of weeks. Yeah. It's brand, brand new.
That thing is nice. Yeah.
It's pretty sweet. Super streamlined too. That that's one of the things.
And I guess that lends itself to the, the laser cutting and taking that bar tack out of there.
(22:08):
But it's so freaking streamlined and that's the worst especially
when you're at you know a western hunt fest attack or a
math and you're and you're beating around and you got this thing clacking
on the side and beating you up and you know and we like to put more shit than
it should in there totally i really like the factory that we can i'm short i'm
five six so being able to tilt that back so my arrows aren't digging into my
(22:29):
armpit if i have it on the side and i don't have to be swinging it back and
forth a lot better than leaning the arrows one way or the other too i think
And you still have that option too.
I mean, you don't have to pick one of anything, you know, like not to bash any
of the other ones, but I mean, typically in the past you have to pick a lane.
You want it on your right side facing forward.
Do you want it, you know, facing backwards, straight up? Like you kind of have to pick one.
(22:51):
And with ours, you kind of get the best of all worlds because you can change
it on the fly if you need to.
You know, if you want to face him forward right now and the next target facing
backwards for some reason, have at it. Yeah.
So you were saying that you could attach it to your pack. How does that work?
So the whole back has a MOLLE matrix on the back as well. Laser cut.
Yep. It's all laser cut stuff. And then you can, it's two pieces.
So there's an upper that we call the belt drop. That's where your belt feeds
(23:13):
through, which let me circle back around to that. That's another product we
have is a stretch lock belt.
I was going to say, we didn't talk about the belt. I saw that yesterday. yeah i
think it's sweet man anybody that conceals like does concealed
carry it's like that belt has never met a gun it
didn't love it is sweet but anyway getting
off track it attaches to the pack by removing that belt
drop portion there's four snaps to hold the whole thing together three
(23:35):
up top that are 30 degrees space and then one
down in the center you just pull that whole thing off and then
it's just like a molly snap system slap it
on any any pack that's got a molly matrix tricks whether it's
laser cut i mean it'll work with any of them so laser cut bar
tack style doesn't matter it'll work on all of them yeah
there's a couple dividers on the inside so if you're shooting tack you
(23:57):
have an arrow that's cracked you want to keep your
components put that in a the other sleeve keep your other
ones in the other sleeve and yeah don't remind
me of busted arrows right we were talking
efren and i were talking i just build a bunch we're about
to start the western hunt fest season he goes how much do
each of your arrows cost at this point and dude
(24:19):
i started to figure it out dude i'm probably close to
50 or 60 dollars with broadhead yeah on an arrow at this point dude i'm like
that's insane insane no my wife gives me all kinds of all kinds of crap because
it's like i'm a tinkerer i'm like i don't know how many different shafts i have
down there and then you start mixing and matching different components And she's like.
(24:40):
You can't out, you're not good enough to settle on one and just go with it.
Well, that's it, you know, good on her.
Cause that's what I've done in the last few years. I started shooting the aerotech
MTs and the owner of that company.
I met Robert at, I think it was a math event, maybe four years ago.
And it just, it's just been a solid air. It's probably one of the most durable
(25:02):
arrows I've ever shot, but there's no spine line on that arrow.
Like the way that they build them is they're not wrapping sheets.
They're going over the mandrel and somehow weaving over it. Like it's proprietary somehow.
But, man, super consistent, but durable. I have the same arrows that I got from
him four or five years ago. I'm still shooting them to this day. Nice.
(25:24):
And they were a little bit longer, so the new bow, I wanted a little bit more.
I'm going with a wide broadhead this year, so a little bit more weight up front.
I had to bring the arrow down because they're only a 300 spine just to get a
little stiffness out of it. Holy crap, I love those arrows.
But still, 50 or 60 bucks an arrow with components and broadheads.
Yeah, it seems like no matter what brand you buy, you're going to end up right at that $40 to $50 level.
(25:48):
It doesn't even make sense. I wish he didn't even tell me about it because I'm
like, so now I'm dissecting what I have left to build.
It's going to make me fearful of losing any arrows through the 3D season.
You know, it's like, dang, I definitely am not shooting at anything with a two-inch hole in steel.
You know, it's like, no, I'm good, man. I'm good. It's crazy.
But the money that we spend as hunters is phenomenal. You know,
(26:12):
especially the majority of us are blue-collar guys and gals.
For sure you know and we love our gear you know i
wouldn't mind shooting 50 60 70 dollar arrows
if it was just putting them through animals but it's all
that practice and i mean i find myself when i
get super expensive stuff like that it's like you find yourself i'm
not going to take that risk i'm not going to try to you know thread that
(26:33):
thread that little gap it's why it just hurts
when you hear the quack and it's not in the target oh
you know that's why i buy two dozen spin them all then the
ones that are the best go over here the ones that aren't so good go over here
these are my all practice ones yeah yeah and there's
not enough very like mark saying there's not enough
good shooter in me to out shoot that
(26:53):
variant yeah out of it right yeah 0.003.001
i'm not good enough to notice the difference man and people don't
even realize what that means everybody goes and they they buy
those those 001s and spend what 40
50 60 dollars more it's like dude stop at
003 if you want to get there if you're that anal but 006
(27:14):
for what we do it's plenty freaking good you're talking
you're talking less than a human hair
of variant in 006 to
001 like that's can you shoot that good like consistently like i mean you know
in my garage with no wind on my best day 15 yards i might get lucky to shoot
(27:34):
001 yeah for sure yeah i find myself i end up getting 001s just because it's a head thing.
It's a mental thing. You know, it's like... Human hair, buddy.
Yeah, I know. It doesn't make any sense. Like, what if I... Yeah,
I just don't let my wife see how much I'm spending on it and then we're good.
You need to listen to the first podcast I did with Kyle Davidson,
(27:55):
a DCA Custom Arrows. And he explains it to a T.
That was the last time I worried about 001.
It was like, there is no reason for me to spend the extra money.
Yeah. Because you figure now,
40 bucks, if I buy... if I buy hit inserts from Iron Will, which I love.
Six, half a dozen inserts at 25 grains cost me $46, right?
(28:18):
There's the difference between the 003s and the 001s, you know,
and then it's far greater than that when you go 06 to 001.
And you have really good quality components.
Yeah. I mean, I've seen, there's some really good component companies,
but what always stood about Bill outside of
his meticulous nature and design is the
(28:39):
consistency from batch to batch to batch to batch to batch
sure right less than and i i'm this
guy so i get i'll get veins i shoot the super
sabers uh from dca and i get a hundred
pack of one color a hundred pack of another color and each single
vein gets weighed and set into a pile every single
200 oh you're right there you're right there whatever it is you know that that
(29:00):
six and a half seven seven and a half ish and i weigh everything yeah bill's
consistency from batch to batch to batch year after year year after year has
been some of the tightest I've seen across the entire realm. And I'm a tinkerer.
I mean, I got everything just uber consistent. And that just breeds confidence.
(29:21):
You slap that on the end of your arrow. You just know that it's going to perform.
It's one less thing to worry about.
That's the worst thing in any gear, right? Is inconsistency.
Sure. Right. Be it customer service in build, build quality.
Yeah. I hate inconsistency. Like I call you about my, my in reach pocket.
I'd expect the same from my range finder pocket or other quiver. Right.
(29:42):
So that, that I love it, man. When someone's consistent across the board.
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.
So Jason and I have never talked. What's your deal, man? What's your,
what's your animal of choice? What gets your, your blood boiling?
I'd say elk, archery elk. I started archery hunting 2018 and yeah,
(30:03):
I was rifle hunting before that.
And yeah, I started hunting when I was in 12, 10. I moved up in North Dakota,
just rifle hunting, white tails.
And I mean, the big picture that's, that's fairly new to the game,
right? I mean, a lifetime of hunting.
Then what made you step into archery? Colorado over the counter.
(30:23):
Rifle hunting. There you go. And I had other buddies. I was like September with a bow. No snow.
Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. And then, yeah, after that first year, I went solo and killed
a calf, brown calf, and then packed it out.
One trip myself, a hundred yards at a time, take a break a hundred yards at
a time. He was three or four miles.
(30:44):
And I got back to the truck at 3 a.m., packed it up. and then
after that went in yeah 2019 and killed
a six by six seven miles in and then
i had a fool i called i called in help i had
help there and uh it was like 21 miles of
economic that's brutal but i had help so it
was that's counting with everybody's health so so how is that
(31:05):
how is that second year experience spoiled you in september
yeah i looked back on it i was like i'm ready to
do it again yeah how many repeats since i've killed
a few bulls since then nothing as big
as that one there it is but so yeah
it spoiled me but yeah i we
went out i have a daughter that hunts too she's actually 22 now
(31:27):
we went out it wasn't last year was the year before and
she had she'd been hunting with me rifle hunting with me for
years and she was 15 and she'd never killed now
she's helped pack multiple out with multiple buddies
and she's just never had a chance to pull the trigger so last year we went in
on an over-the-counter tag or maybe it was a leftover tag i don't remember but
(31:47):
we went in and first opening day we got into an area and we i was like let's
stay here do some cow calling and yeah six by six came running in i think it was a 290 bowl.
Yeah 295 around 300 we didn't really measure them but yeah she blasted him at
like 60 yards he just So I was calling her spot and stop guy, spot and stuff. Yeah.
(32:10):
Depends on the area I'll call, but I think it's a good spot.
Jason's probably the most consistent mover i've ever
hunted with like there's no time for lunch breaks there's
no time like we're moving we are going i've killed yeah
i killed uh two years ago i killed my bull in a
dry unit and it was yeah right around 11 10 11 o'clock we're we're 80 percent
(32:34):
of the guys are already back in camp for lunch and campfire and everything else
that's the magic time of the day you asked me yeah it's that's a blast we've
got a sticker and like Like Catamount's got a little saying, we're already this far.
And I mean, I know that's not our saying, but that comes straight from him because
we hear that 40, 50 times a trip with Jason.
He's like, what's over that next ridge?
(32:55):
We're already this far. Keep going. So, yeah.
Worst case, we backtrack. I mean, honestly, that's the right mindset, right?
I mean, if we're talking about what we do, especially with September elk, right?
We have limited time to get it done. and
and in that 27 day window
i think is what the season is we have recreators and
(33:17):
we have muzzle yeah the muzzle are muzzy boys and girls but yeah that's the
that's really the only mindset like we wait all year we talk about it all year
and then guys are hyped to get out there and they go and they sit in camp 90
of the time it's like what are you jack lake fuckers doing you know yeah.
That's not how our camps go. I mean, you spend way too much time prepping for
(33:40):
everything with all the gear, like we were talking about all that gear testing and all that stuff.
And I mean, you've got a finite amount of time and you're lucky if you get,
I mean, most people are lucky if they get a whole week, you know what I mean?
With, with all work obligation, family obligation, you're running your own business.
That doesn't stop when you go out in the woods.
The average guy, I found this out last year, the average guy in September,
(34:01):
four and a half days is what they get on the mountain. And I was, I was blown away by that.
I was like, no, four and a half days.
So 361 days of preparation.
Anticipation is what that amounts to. It's crazy. So many people quit before they start, you know?
I mean, they, they just, they, you think, you think if you guys,
(34:23):
if a guy has a seven day hunt, he drives out, gets here, hikes in, not seeing anything.
By the time he hikes out, he's going to take a break and go back in.
By the time that adds up four days sounds about right. That's crazy to me.
Takes a day to break or storms roll in. Yeah. Four days. It's brutal.
So let's give them the elevator pitch for Catamount.
(34:45):
Why should they check Catamount out? Why does Catamount deserve to be on the
pack, on the chest, on the hip? Put me on the spot here.
I mean, I'm obviously very biased, but I just think we make the best gear.
I think we have the best customer service. You message us. We message you back within minutes.
I mean, the company phone number is my phone number. You can call me.
(35:08):
I don't care if it's two in the morning for some reason.
You give me a call, I will pick up the phone. So, I mean, I'd just say customer
service and we're constantly improving the product. We're constantly listening.
We're not too big or our egos aren't big enough to where we don't listen to people.
So I think that's probably the biggest thing that kind of sets us apart from
(35:28):
other people is we just make good stuff, man. And then it's attention to detail and quality.
And we're not outsourcing to China. Everything's American made down to the thread,
the needle, Colorado made.
And it's and then where can they find catamount catamount
og.com catamount outdoor gear instagram
(35:49):
we're on instagram we've got a lackluster presence
on facebook like i said i try to stay out of that dumpster fire because i just
get in trouble but yeah instagram is probably the best spot for us and then
if they head to the website we've got a chat feature there that goes to me and
jason direct instagram same thing and jason direct somebody will answer no matter
what who's Who's doing the booty shaking on TikTok?
(36:12):
We have a TikTok, but we haven't. We haven't. We're still looking for that. So email Guy.
He's going to do some dances for us. Yeah, I recently put Western Hunt Fest
and Western Contours on TikTok.
And I think I already have threats of being banned.
(36:34):
I got all into, okay, this is going to be our year for social media presence.
So I started a TikTok. talk i posted one video maybe
i posted two videos and say hell with this i'm not yeah i'm
not about it like it's so hard it's just a dumpster fire but yeah there's our
thing is just just trying to stay positive you know instagram seems to be our
friend that seems to be the most engaging place for us yeah i've noticed it
(36:59):
in the short time that we've been over on that tiktok thing it's uh Dude,
and I intentionally did not show what I thought was going to be considered offensive.
I mean, you're talking like you have to look...
And I mean, immediately your post has been removed. This is a warning. It's just random.
(37:20):
I mean, like you, you see guys that post pictures, gripping grins and all that stuff. And it's fine.
Jason, I don't know. I guess it was right before last rifle season.
Jason just put up a post with just his rifle, the catamount pack,
all that stuff. And we got a warning.
And it was like, how is this violent in any way? It's literally,
it's, we're not even showing like dead animals or anything here.
(37:41):
But there are posts of women mock breastfeeding dolls to show nipples on there
that don't get flagged. Like, are you kidding me?
I just get on this thing and I see this and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
And then they send me a warning.
I mean, Jason's post could not. I mean, he didn't even say.
And I mean, even in the dialogue, you know, in the caption, it wasn't any.
(38:05):
It was just like, make sure to, you know, breakfast is coming up. Yeah.
Tag us in your tag us in your hunt or whatever. it was something
so benign and it was like really that's what our warning is
i text him and i was like dude no more gun posts and he's like you gotta be fucking
kidding me it's crazy yeah he's like you see all these other people
posting all this other stuff that's like like that nonsense and it's just like
they can get away with it but i could not believe that that was a thing you
(38:29):
have to be the most demented sick mother yeah to get on there and think that
that's something that you You should be double tapping. Well, how is that?
Really? How is that? Okay. I mean, there's little kids on there,
man. Exactly. How is that?
Okay. But a picture of a fucking gun is not okay. I don't get it.
And it's, and the context in my head, the context has nothing to do with the
(38:50):
act that they're showing because it's a fucking dog.
So some perv dude, you know what I mean? Yeah. I listened to a podcast and they
mentioned that exact thing.
And they were saying that they get around it because they consider it educational.
And it's like, well, why can't we be educational? You know, like you post a
picture of you skinning an elk or something like that, you're probably gonna get pulled.
(39:11):
That's way more useful information than this crazy broad.
And that part of their thing talks about culture and things like that.
And it's like, well, that's what that is. If they stopped and they looked at
it across the entire world, if it was not for hunting, there's no way that the food industry,
in any way, shape, or form, how they produce food, be it farming,
(39:33):
ranching, the damn farms that they hate or whatever, the factory farming.
I mean, there is no way that they can keep up with the amount of people that
are on this planet and produce enough food.
So without hunting, there's cultures that don't have sustenance.
How is that not viable to people, society at large?
(39:55):
It just boggles my flipping mind. Well, it's not like this is a new thing.
You know, hunting is not a new thing, obviously. People have been doing it forever.
So I don't understand where the hate comes from. Well, we do.
We all know where the hate comes from. I mean, a rifle is just a tool.
Maybe fishing poles should be on there because they're catching fish.
Car accidents. I mean, the list goes on and on, right? But then they say,
(40:16):
oh, these guys, they just want to go out and kill. They're cynical about everything.
But anywho, that's just stray from Catamount. But, you know,
I mean, for the folks listening, we get on that topic.
I mean, these are people that support what we do and love what we do.
They're passionate about the outdoors and, you know, family men.
So check out Catamount Gear.
Support these guys. If you have any questions, reach out to Mark or Jason.
(40:36):
And, uh, yeah, thanks for listening. Appreciate you. Thanks boys.
Music.
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