June 3, 2025 • 23 mins
There’s not a lot better than getting out in nature and it’s something Linda Stuart realised 40 years ago.
She visits Packwood House and Garden almost daily to get a nature fix, and credits it with getting her through some really challenging times.
Join Linda as she shares her story with Heather Birkett.
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Quick breathers, calming walks or heart-pounding hikes. We feel better when we get out more.
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Production
Presenter: Heather Birkett
Producer: Claire Hickinbotham
Sound Designer: Jesus Gomez
Presenter: Heather Birkett
Producer: Claire Hickinbotham
Sound Designer: Jesus Gomez
Contributors
With thanks to Linda for sharing her story
And to Robyn Booth for being so open about her mental health
And to Liz Ware, Founder of Silent Space.
With thanks to Linda for sharing her story
And to Robyn Booth for being so open about her mental health
And to Liz Ware, Founder of Silent Space.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
LINDA STUART (00:34):
Being here and being able to just sit quietly
and have this wonderful visionof colour and light, it was just
very calming and helped me toget a sense of perspective on
what lay ahead and what wasgoing to happen to me and to
feel hopeful and sure that Iwould survive. Really, I don't
(00:56):
know how I would have managedwithout being able to come here.
ROSIE HOLDSWORTH (01:03):
Let's get something straight. You don't
have to be a gardener to enjoybeing in a garden. Hi, I'm
Ranger Rosie Holdsworth and Ilove being outdoors, wherever
that may be. For today'sepisode, I'm handing you over to
Heather Burkett, who's GardensAnd Outdoor Manager at Acorn
Bank in Cumbria. She's going tofind out more about how being in
(01:24):
gardens has so many benefits.
Heather's meeting Linda Stuartat Packwood in the West
Midlands.
Linda's a mum, a wife, a grannywho's faced her fair share of
challenges in life.
But on three separate occasions,she credits the gardens we're
visiting today with saving her.
(01:46):
Welcome to the Wild Tale ofgreen therapy, the healing power
of gardens.
HEATHER BIRKETT (02:04):
Just entered the
most exquisite walled garden.
Masses of grasses and purpleflowers really shining in the
early morning light.
And I can follow the path up toa big square garden full of
immaculately trimmed topiary yewtrees. They really are
(02:27):
fantastic.
And through years and years ofpruning and trimming, you can
end up with these dense, solidsculptural objects that really
add dimensions of height andgrandeur to a garden.
But also, what a fantastic placeto play in. I can just imagine
(02:51):
playing hide and seek in herewith my kids.
And speaking of hide and seek, Ifeel I may have a bit of a game
on my hands to find Linda. Butshe's given me a clue to meet
her by the Master Yew.
And just a hundred metres or sothrough the yews, she was, of
course, where she said she wouldbe.
(03:14):
Hello, you must be Linda.
LINDA STUART (03:16):
Oh, hi.
HEATHER BIRKETT (03:16):
How lovely to meet you. I'm Heather. You're a
regular visitor here.
LINDA STUART (03:20):
Well, I'm here pretty much every day, Heather,
actually. The first time I drovethrough the gates I was
instantly drawn and I'veremained very attached to
Packwood over 40 years.
I've moved down here in the1970s from Newcastle. My husband
got a job as a local GP. We usedto come when the children were
(03:41):
little and they particularlyliked the yew tree garden. I
mean, they knew the story, youknow, Jesus and the feeding of
the multitude with five loavesand two fishes. And they loved
the idea that these treesrepresented the multitudes. And
the large oak, well, they usedto call it the Jesus tree.
(04:02):
They also used to love tearingaround the place and playing
hide and seek. But theirfavourite game, particularly for
my son, was to tear up thepathway that leads the top of
the Jesus tree and be the firstone to get to the top. So it was
really part of my life as ayoung mother, really.
HEATHER BIRKETT (04:20):
Did it feel like a second home?
LINDA STUART (04:21):
Oh absolutely. Packwood is my second home. It
doesn't feel like a second home.It is my second home. So I'm
here most days. Now I've gotgrandchildren. I spend quite a
bit of time in London, but whenI'm home, I come here.
HEATHER BIRKETT (04:35):
But as well as turning to Packwood in her
happiest times, Linda has usedthe garden to get through some
really tough times in her life.The first when her youngest
child, her son, has somedevastating news in his 20s.
LINDA STUART (04:49):
When he was 24 was diagnosed with cancer. He had to
have surgery in London and hecame to live at home and had
chemotherapy. A diagnosis ofcancer is a terrible shock to
the individual and to a family.And you feel that your life's
been fractured and control'sbeen taken away from you. And
you get very fearful and anxiousand worried.
(05:12):
It's like you're in a foreigncountry. You don't have a map to
find your way around. Peoplespeak a different language, you
know, about markers and bloodtests. I remember coming here in
the days before he started hischemotherapy. I think it's well
known now, isn't it, thatactually being in green spaces,
being in gardens, being innature generally, it's really
(05:35):
good for your physical healthand your mental health in
everyday life. But I think thatit's particularly true when
you're struggling with apersonal crisis, a family
crisis.
Being in this space helped me tocope with that crisis. This
garden, I think, has been inexistence for centuries and I
(05:58):
remember thinking that womenlike me have probably come to
this place over centuries andthey've been mothers and they
would have worries and concernsand they would come here and
unburden themselves probably.
And that I was just one personin a whole sort of history of
women struggling with theproblems that life brings. And
(06:20):
so it helps you to get thingsinto perspective. It's so
difficult here not to loseyourself into the landscape. And
it's a very calming andrestorative landscape for me.
HEATHER BIRKETT (06:36):
There's something about spending time,
quiet time, in green spaces thatis a gentle kind of peace, isn't
it? With the background noise ofthe bees buzzing and the
lawnmower going in thebackground. That gives you
something to focus on, I think.
LINDA STUART (06:52):
Yes.
HEATHER BIRKETT (06:52):
Allows your mind to switch off that internal
monologue.
LINDA STUART (06:56):
And just being silent, being quiet, actually
stills your mind.
HEATHER BIRKETT (07:03):
Linda's son goes on to make a full recovery,
and he's now in his 40s with afamily of his own. But it isn't
the only family crisis Linda isto face.
Life is about to throw anotherdiagnosis her way, and this time
it's her own.
As we head away from the Jesustree and back towards the house.
(07:26):
It becomes clear Linda turns toa different part of the garden
to help her cope this time.
Packwood is a garden of manydifferent spaces. Is there
particular places here that meanmore to you than others, apart
from the Jesus you?
LINDA STUART (07:41):
Yes, yeah, well particularly these borders I
think.
HEATHER BIRKETT (07:45):
What I'm looking at the minute at is the
golden yellow of Stipa gigantea,peppered through with purples of
sages and oreganos, the littlebit of silver here and there.
LINDA STUART (07:57):
I'm really impressed that you have all the
botanical names. I don't. But atthe height of summer, you get
some vivid oranges, some brightoranges and some reds. You get a
lovely view of the borders ifyou sit on the benches in front
of the house.
HEATHER BIRKETT (08:15):
And it's this spot Linda turns to when she
gets her own devastating news.
LINDA STUART (08:21):
So in 2013, I was diagnosed with a brain tumour.
It was affecting my speech andmy vision and my balance. It had
to be removed. I was comfortedby the fact that the tumour was
benign. So, you know, hopefullyonce it was out, I would be able
to get on with my life. Butbrain surgery is a bit scary. It
(08:43):
was a shock, you know, it was atremendous shock.
And there was, again, this senseof fear, I guess. And concern
and anxiety about what layahead. Again, I would come to
the garden and I would sit on abench in front of the house and
look at the borders. And theywere just so beautiful. Being
(09:05):
here and being able to just sitquietly and just have this
wonderful vision of colour andlight.
It was a particularly beautifulJune, if I remember. It was
just, again, very calming andhelped me to get a sense of
perspective on what lay aheadand what was going to happen to
(09:27):
me. And to feel hopeful and surethat I would survive. Really, I
don't know how I would havemanaged without being able to
come here and just be comfortedand encouraged by the beauty of
nature at Packwood.
HEATHER BIRKETT (09:47):
Linda's health is boosted from simply being in
a garden. But as a gardenermyself, I want to find out more
about the benefits of the act ofgardening. So we walk through
Packwood to find someone whoknows about the power of
gardening.
So this garden means so much toyou. You love being here. Are
(10:08):
you a gardener yourself?
LINDA STUART (10:09):
I'd hesitate to say I was a gardener. I have a
garden and I love my garden andI spend a lot of time in it. And
I grow a lot of things in potsand at different heights. I can
gain heights by putting pots upon bricks. But, you know, I'm
not a professional by any means.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:26):
Well, it looks like we've really stumbled
across a gardener.
LIZ WARE (10:30):
Hello.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:30):
You must be Robin.
LIZ WARE (10:31):
Yes, I'm Robin.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:32):
Hi, Robin. I'm Heather.
Linda and I were just commentingon how the colours in these
borders really sing and theyseem to really tie into the
architecture of the house aswell.
ROBYN BOOTH (10:42):
They do. I really like the fact that it kind of
picks out some of the moregolden tones and the render of
the house. If you have a look atthe lead pipework and some of
the silvery colours in thewooden frames. That's also
picked up in the planting aswell. So we've got lots of
silvery tones. So it's all kindof about bringing in what you
can see around you in the widerlandscape and letting that
(11:04):
inform your planting.
HEATHER BIRKETT (11:06):
It must be a wonderful place to work, though.
ROBYN BOOTH (11:08):
It is. I'm really lucky to be here. I wasn't
always a gardener. I used to bea primary school teacher.
It feels like another lifetime,really. But whilst I was in that
career, I was really strugglingwith my mental health. And
that's how I kind of discoveredgardening. I live in the centre
of Birmingham in a busy city andI have a balcony.
(11:31):
And it was whilst I waspottering about on there with a
few plants that I thought, oh,I'm actually starting to feel a
bit more like myself again. So Istarted volunteering at local
gardens and did some RHScourses. And then eventually it
felt like this was what I neededto do.
And after some training, I gotlucky and a job came up at
(11:51):
Packwood. And it just felt likea dream come true, to be honest,
to be able to work here andstill kind of have a few pinch
me moments now and then as well.
When you're a gardener, it canfeel a little bit like you've
got so many jobs to do andyou're focusing on getting that
done and making it look greatfor the visitors. But it's also
(12:13):
really important to take a stepback and to just be in the space
sometimes and just think, lookat the light on that, look at
the colour of this, look at thatbee, and just having those
moments throughout the daybecause it just feels like it's
a part of you and it feels likeif you're not doing it, you just
don't feel quite yourself.
HEATHER BIRKETT (12:35):
And do you feel that working in gardens now and
working at Packwood supportsyour mental health now?
ROBYN BOOTH (12:41):
Oh, 100%, definitely. Even if it's just
simple tasks like deadheading orweeding, which I personally
really enjoy. It's actuallyquite meditative. It gives you
that space to kind of just thinkthings through and process your
thoughts. And you often feel asense of calmness, peace
afterwards.
And maybe you've been able tokind of work through a niggly
(13:02):
problem in your mind orsomething. There's been a bit of
research into it about having acertain level of complexity in
the task that keeps youabsorbed, but it's not so much
that you're getting quitestressed and anxious about it.
HEATHER BIRKETT (13:16):
Linda? Does this ring a bell for you?
LINDA STUART (13:18):
Oh, absolutely. You're talking about gardening
being good for your mentalhealth, which reminds me of the
time after my surgery. I justrather naively thought that once
it was out, it was out, and I'djust get on with my life. And I
discovered that actually itwasn't like that at all.
(13:38):
My brain was very racy and fizzyand lots of thoughts just
jumbling around in my head. AndI had some help from a
neurologist and we came up witha program which was largely just
exactly what you were sayingabout being in a garden, being
in a green space and just beingable to relax and be quiet, to
(14:03):
find little places where I couldbe on my own.
Nature has a pattern. There's arhythm to the seasons and
there's a calmness to thatprocess. And actually walking,
walking helped me hugely. Iwould, in the winter, I would
pull on my wellies and just walkacross the fields and just
(14:24):
putting one foot in front of theother was helpful. You know, it
helped to calm me and to stillthat kind of fizzy part of my
brain.
ROBYN BOOTH (14:35):
I couldn't agree with you more, to be honest,
about having that time outside.It feels like something that's
quite vital to me. What you saidreally resonated with me about
how you felt with your yourthoughts and everything kind of
rushing in that was somethingthat I found really difficult,
but when I was outside or when Iwas gardening it was something
changed in my brain chemistry Isuppose and it was like oh I can
(14:58):
take a breath and I can be meagain.
HEATHER BIRKETT (15:01):
As I leave Robin behind, feeling like we'd
had a bit of a heart-to-heartand put the world to rights, and
Linda and I head off to exploremore of Packwood, I'm reminded
of the calmness and peace ofmind that can come from being
outside.
The way you talk about thisspace reminds me very much of
(15:22):
the place I work, which is AcornBank near Penrith, and we find,
and our visitors often talkabout, the sense of tranquility
and serenity, it really oozespeace and quiet. And there's one
place in particular thatpersonally I feel it, and that's
in the herb garden where there'sa beautiful Portuguese quince
tree. We have some benches belowthat, and it's just a really
(15:45):
lovely place to sit. And in2016, we actually signed that
space up to the Silent Spaceproject.
LIZ WARE (15:52):
Silent Space is a charity, and we work with
gardens that are open to thepublic and we encourage them to
keep an area where people can besilent. It's a little bit like
the quiet carriage on a train.The people in the space are
silent but the sounds of thegarden and the world beyond go
(16:14):
on around them.
I'm Liz Ware. I'm a gardenwriter and historian and I'm the
founder of Silent Space.
So the reason we know from ascientific point of view that
Silent Space works is becausethere's plenty of neuroscience
to show that taking time toreflect is important. The best
(16:35):
summary of that that I've heardis by a business psychologist
who says that our body and ourbrain is at its best if our
brain is following a patternthat goes think, reflect, think,
reflect.
How often do we do that?
(16:57):
The minute we have five minutes,we're checking our phones
because we've got that pressureall the time to feel we should
be doing something. Being innature is, we know, very good
for us, lowers our stresslevels, our cortisol levels.
But there was some research inthe late 1980s, I think, came up
with the idea of somethingcalled gentle or soft
(17:19):
fascination. When we're innature, just quietly, there's
something about the flutteringof the leaves or the birdsong
that just distracts us a littlebit. So if we were quietly in a
room without any distraction, wemight start to spiral down into
overthinking.
But when we're in nature,there's just enough of a
(17:39):
distraction to let us reflectquietly, but also distract us a
little bit from sinkingdownwards, which is amazing
really, isn't it? Green is goodfor us, but biodiversity is even
better.
So if you bring all thesedifferent things together, we're
reflecting, we're outside, we'rein a biodiverse place, it's good
(18:04):
for us. But I would also like tosay that it's good for nature.
And we mustn't forget that. Whenwe're quiet, we cause less
disturbance. And then we seemore. We care more.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:22):
I want to see more of Packwood's garden and
countryside, potential places tosit silently.
Have you got any more places inthe garden that you'd like to
show me?
LINDA STUART (18:32):
Well, actually, maybe just one place, Heather,
and that's my secret bench. Somaybe we should take a walk over
there and we can sit on mybench.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:40):
So we leave the borders and the yews behind,
head down a path towards thehouse and take a sharp left.
LINDA STUART (18:47):
So we follow this yew tree hedge, and round the
corner we will find this quietspace.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:58):
And this is the space Linda sought solace in
when a third huge life event wasthrown her way. Except this
time, it's something all of usexperience.
LINDA STUART (19:09):
So this is my secret bench, and I thought we
could just sit on there for awhile and take in the views. Do
you want to have a seat?
HEATHER BIRKETT (19:16):
Oh yes, please.
LINDA STUART (19:17):
Okay.
HEATHER BIRKETT (19:18):
Sitting on Linda's secret bench, which
won't be so secret anymore, shetells me how important this part
of the garden becomes to her inMarch 2020.
LINDA STUART (19:29):
In Covid, they removed all the benches. This
one's hard to remove becauseit's kind of nailed down,
really. I remember, you know, onthe Monday, we knew that Boris
Johnson was going to lock usdown, and indeed he did that
evening. I did find a way ofregularly coming here, but
walking on the footpaths aroundthe estate.
(19:51):
And I would bring my own coffeeand I would actually sit in the
bench in the churchyard,Packwood churchyard. I really
missed coming into the garden.And I discovered that there was
a crack in an old gate and Icould actually see through to
the borders. And I think we werefinally allowed back into public
spaces at about June. So I doremember through this crack in
(20:15):
the door, seeing the borderscoming to life and when they
finally opened the doors,honestly, I just remember crying
with just joy at being able tocome back into Packwood.
But this bench is a place whereI come when I want to be quiet
and just sort of read or think.It's actually off the beaten
(20:36):
track. Not many people come thisway. So it's very quiet and very
calming.
My brain can still get quiteracy and fizzy. And I know that
I have to just distance myselffrom other people and sit
quietly. And so this is where Icome.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:01):
Linda, it's been so nice to meet you and to
share your Packwood. Thank youso much for showing me around.
LINDA STUART (21:07):
Well, it's been a joy.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:08):
Just before you go, tell me, are you well now?
LINDA STUART (21:11):
Yes, Heather, I am. Thank you for asking. I feel
very well. My life's changedhugely since the time of my
diagnosis because being Grannyjust fills my life with joy. It
is such fun. It's all the joyand none of the responsibility.
It's lovely. I think it's fairto say that you never totally
recover from brain surgery. Youkind of learn to live with it. I
(21:35):
just need to make sure that Ihave some quiet time.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:41):
Inspired by Linda's story and how she uses
the garden and outdoor space atPackwood, the garden team have
set aside two areas to be aSilent Space, including Linda's
now not-so-secret bench.
(22:08):
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Wild Tales. If you'd
like to hear more inspiringstories about being in nature,
why not try listening to NatureFix, another podcast from the
National Trust.
Follow Wild Tales or Nature Fixor both, on your favourite
podcast app to make sure youcatch every episode as it
(22:29):
arrives. And please do leaveyour ratings and reviews. We
love hearing from you. See younext time.
Being here and being able to just sit quietly
and have this wonderful visionof colour and light, it was just
very calming and helped me toget a sense of perspective on
what lay ahead and what wasgoing to happen to me and to
feel hopeful and sure that Iwould survive. Really, I don't
(00:56):
know how I would have managedwithout being able to come here.
ROSIE HOLDSWORTH (01:03):
Let's get something straight. You don't
have to be a gardener to enjoybeing in a garden. Hi, I'm
Ranger Rosie Holdsworth and Ilove being outdoors, wherever
that may be. For today'sepisode, I'm handing you over to
Heather Burkett, who's GardensAnd Outdoor Manager at Acorn
Bank in Cumbria. She's going tofind out more about how being in
(01:24):
gardens has so many benefits.
Heather's meeting Linda Stuartat Packwood in the West
Midlands.
Linda's a mum, a wife, a grannywho's faced her fair share of
challenges in life.
But on three separate occasions,she credits the gardens we're
visiting today with saving her.
(01:46):
Welcome to the Wild Tale ofgreen therapy, the healing power
of gardens.
HEATHER BIRKETT (02:04):
Just entered the
most exquisite walled garden.
Masses of grasses and purpleflowers really shining in the
early morning light.
And I can follow the path up toa big square garden full of
immaculately trimmed topiary yewtrees. They really are
(02:27):
fantastic.
And through years and years ofpruning and trimming, you can
end up with these dense, solidsculptural objects that really
add dimensions of height andgrandeur to a garden.
But also, what a fantastic placeto play in. I can just imagine
(02:51):
playing hide and seek in herewith my kids.
And speaking of hide and seek, Ifeel I may have a bit of a game
on my hands to find Linda. Butshe's given me a clue to meet
her by the Master Yew.
And just a hundred metres or sothrough the yews, she was, of
course, where she said she wouldbe.
(03:14):
Hello, you must be Linda.
LINDA STUART (03:16):
Oh, hi.
HEATHER BIRKETT (03:16):
How lovely to meet you. I'm Heather. You're a
regular visitor here.
LINDA STUART (03:20):
Well, I'm here pretty much every day, Heather,
actually. The first time I drovethrough the gates I was
instantly drawn and I'veremained very attached to
Packwood over 40 years.
I've moved down here in the1970s from Newcastle. My husband
got a job as a local GP. We usedto come when the children were
(03:41):
little and they particularlyliked the yew tree garden. I
mean, they knew the story, youknow, Jesus and the feeding of
the multitude with five loavesand two fishes. And they loved
the idea that these treesrepresented the multitudes. And
the large oak, well, they usedto call it the Jesus tree.
(04:02):
They also used to love tearingaround the place and playing
hide and seek. But theirfavourite game, particularly for
my son, was to tear up thepathway that leads the top of
the Jesus tree and be the firstone to get to the top. So it was
really part of my life as ayoung mother, really.
HEATHER BIRKETT (04:20):
Did it feel like a second home?
LINDA STUART (04:21):
Oh absolutely. Packwood is my second home. It
doesn't feel like a second home.It is my second home. So I'm
here most days. Now I've gotgrandchildren. I spend quite a
bit of time in London, but whenI'm home, I come here.
HEATHER BIRKETT (04:35):
But as well as turning to Packwood in her
happiest times, Linda has usedthe garden to get through some
really tough times in her life.The first when her youngest
child, her son, has somedevastating news in his 20s.
LINDA STUART (04:49):
When he was 24 was diagnosed with cancer. He had to
have surgery in London and hecame to live at home and had
chemotherapy. A diagnosis ofcancer is a terrible shock to
the individual and to a family.And you feel that your life's
been fractured and control'sbeen taken away from you. And
you get very fearful and anxiousand worried.
(05:12):
It's like you're in a foreigncountry. You don't have a map to
find your way around. Peoplespeak a different language, you
know, about markers and bloodtests. I remember coming here in
the days before he started hischemotherapy. I think it's well
known now, isn't it, thatactually being in green spaces,
being in gardens, being innature generally, it's really
(05:35):
good for your physical healthand your mental health in
everyday life. But I think thatit's particularly true when
you're struggling with apersonal crisis, a family
crisis.
Being in this space helped me tocope with that crisis. This
garden, I think, has been inexistence for centuries and I
(05:58):
remember thinking that womenlike me have probably come to
this place over centuries andthey've been mothers and they
would have worries and concernsand they would come here and
unburden themselves probably.
And that I was just one personin a whole sort of history of
women struggling with theproblems that life brings. And
(06:20):
so it helps you to get thingsinto perspective. It's so
difficult here not to loseyourself into the landscape. And
it's a very calming andrestorative landscape for me.
HEATHER BIRKETT (06:36):
There's something about spending time,
quiet time, in green spaces thatis a gentle kind of peace, isn't
it? With the background noise ofthe bees buzzing and the
lawnmower going in thebackground. That gives you
something to focus on, I think.
LINDA STUART (06:52):
Yes.
HEATHER BIRKETT (06:52):
Allows your mind to switch off that internal
monologue.
LINDA STUART (06:56):
And just being silent, being quiet, actually
stills your mind.
HEATHER BIRKETT (07:03):
Linda's son goes on to make a full recovery,
and he's now in his 40s with afamily of his own. But it isn't
the only family crisis Linda isto face.
Life is about to throw anotherdiagnosis her way, and this time
it's her own.
As we head away from the Jesustree and back towards the house.
(07:26):
It becomes clear Linda turns toa different part of the garden
to help her cope this time.
Packwood is a garden of manydifferent spaces. Is there
particular places here that meanmore to you than others, apart
from the Jesus you?
LINDA STUART (07:41):
Yes, yeah, well particularly these borders I
think.
HEATHER BIRKETT (07:45):
What I'm looking at the minute at is the
golden yellow of Stipa gigantea,peppered through with purples of
sages and oreganos, the littlebit of silver here and there.
LINDA STUART (07:57):
I'm really impressed that you have all the
botanical names. I don't. But atthe height of summer, you get
some vivid oranges, some brightoranges and some reds. You get a
lovely view of the borders ifyou sit on the benches in front
of the house.
HEATHER BIRKETT (08:15):
And it's this spot Linda turns to when she
gets her own devastating news.
LINDA STUART (08:21):
So in 2013, I was diagnosed with a brain tumour.
It was affecting my speech andmy vision and my balance. It had
to be removed. I was comfortedby the fact that the tumour was
benign. So, you know, hopefullyonce it was out, I would be able
to get on with my life. Butbrain surgery is a bit scary. It
(08:43):
was a shock, you know, it was atremendous shock.
And there was, again, this senseof fear, I guess. And concern
and anxiety about what layahead. Again, I would come to
the garden and I would sit on abench in front of the house and
look at the borders. And theywere just so beautiful. Being
(09:05):
here and being able to just sitquietly and just have this
wonderful vision of colour andlight.
It was a particularly beautifulJune, if I remember. It was
just, again, very calming andhelped me to get a sense of
perspective on what lay aheadand what was going to happen to
(09:27):
me. And to feel hopeful and surethat I would survive. Really, I
don't know how I would havemanaged without being able to
come here and just be comfortedand encouraged by the beauty of
nature at Packwood.
HEATHER BIRKETT (09:47):
Linda's health is boosted from simply being in
a garden. But as a gardenermyself, I want to find out more
about the benefits of the act ofgardening. So we walk through
Packwood to find someone whoknows about the power of
gardening.
So this garden means so much toyou. You love being here. Are
(10:08):
you a gardener yourself?
LINDA STUART (10:09):
I'd hesitate to say I was a gardener. I have a
garden and I love my garden andI spend a lot of time in it. And
I grow a lot of things in potsand at different heights. I can
gain heights by putting pots upon bricks. But, you know, I'm
not a professional by any means.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:26):
Well, it looks like we've really stumbled
across a gardener.
LIZ WARE (10:30):
Hello.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:30):
You must be Robin.
LIZ WARE (10:31):
Yes, I'm Robin.
HEATHER BIRKETT (10:32):
Hi, Robin. I'm Heather.
Linda and I were just commentingon how the colours in these
borders really sing and theyseem to really tie into the
architecture of the house aswell.
ROBYN BOOTH (10:42):
They do. I really like the fact that it kind of
picks out some of the moregolden tones and the render of
the house. If you have a look atthe lead pipework and some of
the silvery colours in thewooden frames. That's also
picked up in the planting aswell. So we've got lots of
silvery tones. So it's all kindof about bringing in what you
can see around you in the widerlandscape and letting that
(11:04):
inform your planting.
HEATHER BIRKETT (11:06):
It must be a wonderful place to work, though.
ROBYN BOOTH (11:08):
It is. I'm really lucky to be here. I wasn't
always a gardener. I used to bea primary school teacher.
It feels like another lifetime,really. But whilst I was in that
career, I was really strugglingwith my mental health. And
that's how I kind of discoveredgardening. I live in the centre
of Birmingham in a busy city andI have a balcony.
(11:31):
And it was whilst I waspottering about on there with a
few plants that I thought, oh,I'm actually starting to feel a
bit more like myself again. So Istarted volunteering at local
gardens and did some RHScourses. And then eventually it
felt like this was what I neededto do.
And after some training, I gotlucky and a job came up at
(11:51):
Packwood. And it just felt likea dream come true, to be honest,
to be able to work here andstill kind of have a few pinch
me moments now and then as well.
When you're a gardener, it canfeel a little bit like you've
got so many jobs to do andyou're focusing on getting that
done and making it look greatfor the visitors. But it's also
(12:13):
really important to take a stepback and to just be in the space
sometimes and just think, lookat the light on that, look at
the colour of this, look at thatbee, and just having those
moments throughout the daybecause it just feels like it's
a part of you and it feels likeif you're not doing it, you just
don't feel quite yourself.
HEATHER BIRKETT (12:35):
And do you feel that working in gardens now and
working at Packwood supportsyour mental health now?
ROBYN BOOTH (12:41):
Oh, 100%, definitely. Even if it's just
simple tasks like deadheading orweeding, which I personally
really enjoy. It's actuallyquite meditative. It gives you
that space to kind of just thinkthings through and process your
thoughts. And you often feel asense of calmness, peace
afterwards.
And maybe you've been able tokind of work through a niggly
(13:02):
problem in your mind orsomething. There's been a bit of
research into it about having acertain level of complexity in
the task that keeps youabsorbed, but it's not so much
that you're getting quitestressed and anxious about it.
HEATHER BIRKETT (13:16):
Linda? Does this ring a bell for you?
LINDA STUART (13:18):
Oh, absolutely. You're talking about gardening
being good for your mentalhealth, which reminds me of the
time after my surgery. I justrather naively thought that once
it was out, it was out, and I'djust get on with my life. And I
discovered that actually itwasn't like that at all.
(13:38):
My brain was very racy and fizzyand lots of thoughts just
jumbling around in my head. AndI had some help from a
neurologist and we came up witha program which was largely just
exactly what you were sayingabout being in a garden, being
in a green space and just beingable to relax and be quiet, to
(14:03):
find little places where I couldbe on my own.
Nature has a pattern. There's arhythm to the seasons and
there's a calmness to thatprocess. And actually walking,
walking helped me hugely. Iwould, in the winter, I would
pull on my wellies and just walkacross the fields and just
(14:24):
putting one foot in front of theother was helpful. You know, it
helped to calm me and to stillthat kind of fizzy part of my
brain.
ROBYN BOOTH (14:35):
I couldn't agree with you more, to be honest,
about having that time outside.It feels like something that's
quite vital to me. What you saidreally resonated with me about
how you felt with your yourthoughts and everything kind of
rushing in that was somethingthat I found really difficult,
but when I was outside or when Iwas gardening it was something
changed in my brain chemistry Isuppose and it was like oh I can
(14:58):
take a breath and I can be meagain.
HEATHER BIRKETT (15:01):
As I leave Robin behind, feeling like we'd
had a bit of a heart-to-heartand put the world to rights, and
Linda and I head off to exploremore of Packwood, I'm reminded
of the calmness and peace ofmind that can come from being
outside.
The way you talk about thisspace reminds me very much of
(15:22):
the place I work, which is AcornBank near Penrith, and we find,
and our visitors often talkabout, the sense of tranquility
and serenity, it really oozespeace and quiet. And there's one
place in particular thatpersonally I feel it, and that's
in the herb garden where there'sa beautiful Portuguese quince
tree. We have some benches belowthat, and it's just a really
(15:45):
lovely place to sit. And in2016, we actually signed that
space up to the Silent Spaceproject.
LIZ WARE (15:52):
Silent Space is a charity, and we work with
gardens that are open to thepublic and we encourage them to
keep an area where people can besilent. It's a little bit like
the quiet carriage on a train.The people in the space are
silent but the sounds of thegarden and the world beyond go
(16:14):
on around them.
I'm Liz Ware. I'm a gardenwriter and historian and I'm the
founder of Silent Space.
So the reason we know from ascientific point of view that
Silent Space works is becausethere's plenty of neuroscience
to show that taking time toreflect is important. The best
(16:35):
summary of that that I've heardis by a business psychologist
who says that our body and ourbrain is at its best if our
brain is following a patternthat goes think, reflect, think,
reflect.
How often do we do that?
(16:57):
The minute we have five minutes,we're checking our phones
because we've got that pressureall the time to feel we should
be doing something. Being innature is, we know, very good
for us, lowers our stresslevels, our cortisol levels.
But there was some research inthe late 1980s, I think, came up
with the idea of somethingcalled gentle or soft
(17:19):
fascination. When we're innature, just quietly, there's
something about the flutteringof the leaves or the birdsong
that just distracts us a littlebit. So if we were quietly in a
room without any distraction, wemight start to spiral down into
overthinking.
But when we're in nature,there's just enough of a
(17:39):
distraction to let us reflectquietly, but also distract us a
little bit from sinkingdownwards, which is amazing
really, isn't it? Green is goodfor us, but biodiversity is even
better.
So if you bring all thesedifferent things together, we're
reflecting, we're outside, we'rein a biodiverse place, it's good
(18:04):
for us. But I would also like tosay that it's good for nature.
And we mustn't forget that. Whenwe're quiet, we cause less
disturbance. And then we seemore. We care more.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:22):
I want to see more of Packwood's garden and
countryside, potential places tosit silently.
Have you got any more places inthe garden that you'd like to
show me?
LINDA STUART (18:32):
Well, actually, maybe just one place, Heather,
and that's my secret bench. Somaybe we should take a walk over
there and we can sit on mybench.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:40):
So we leave the borders and the yews behind,
head down a path towards thehouse and take a sharp left.
LINDA STUART (18:47):
So we follow this yew tree hedge, and round the
corner we will find this quietspace.
HEATHER BIRKETT (18:58):
And this is the space Linda sought solace in
when a third huge life event wasthrown her way. Except this
time, it's something all of usexperience.
LINDA STUART (19:09):
So this is my secret bench, and I thought we
could just sit on there for awhile and take in the views. Do
you want to have a seat?
HEATHER BIRKETT (19:16):
Oh yes, please.
LINDA STUART (19:17):
Okay.
HEATHER BIRKETT (19:18):
Sitting on Linda's secret bench, which
won't be so secret anymore, shetells me how important this part
of the garden becomes to her inMarch 2020.
LINDA STUART (19:29):
In Covid, they removed all the benches. This
one's hard to remove becauseit's kind of nailed down,
really. I remember, you know, onthe Monday, we knew that Boris
Johnson was going to lock usdown, and indeed he did that
evening. I did find a way ofregularly coming here, but
walking on the footpaths aroundthe estate.
(19:51):
And I would bring my own coffeeand I would actually sit in the
bench in the churchyard,Packwood churchyard. I really
missed coming into the garden.And I discovered that there was
a crack in an old gate and Icould actually see through to
the borders. And I think we werefinally allowed back into public
spaces at about June. So I doremember through this crack in
(20:15):
the door, seeing the borderscoming to life and when they
finally opened the doors,honestly, I just remember crying
with just joy at being able tocome back into Packwood.
But this bench is a place whereI come when I want to be quiet
and just sort of read or think.It's actually off the beaten
(20:36):
track. Not many people come thisway. So it's very quiet and very
calming.
My brain can still get quiteracy and fizzy. And I know that
I have to just distance myselffrom other people and sit
quietly. And so this is where Icome.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:01):
Linda, it's been so nice to meet you and to
share your Packwood. Thank youso much for showing me around.
LINDA STUART (21:07):
Well, it's been a joy.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:08):
Just before you go, tell me, are you well now?
LINDA STUART (21:11):
Yes, Heather, I am. Thank you for asking. I feel
very well. My life's changedhugely since the time of my
diagnosis because being Grannyjust fills my life with joy. It
is such fun. It's all the joyand none of the responsibility.
It's lovely. I think it's fairto say that you never totally
recover from brain surgery. Youkind of learn to live with it. I
(21:35):
just need to make sure that Ihave some quiet time.
HEATHER BIRKETT (21:41):
Inspired by Linda's story and how she uses
the garden and outdoor space atPackwood, the garden team have
set aside two areas to be aSilent Space, including Linda's
now not-so-secret bench.
(22:08):
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Wild Tales. If you'd
like to hear more inspiringstories about being in nature,
why not try listening to NatureFix, another podcast from the
National Trust.
Follow Wild Tales or Nature Fixor both, on your favourite
podcast app to make sure youcatch every episode as it
(22:29):
arrives. And please do leaveyour ratings and reviews. We
love hearing from you. See younext time.
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