Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (00:38):
The Overview
Effect is something that
astronauts have been reportingback from the very early days of
human spaceflight, and it'sdescribed as a cognitive shift
in perspective of seeing yourhome planet from space. I think
at some level it's certainlyspiritual for everybody.
AJAY TEGALA (01:00):
Imagine floating
250 miles above the Earth.
No gravity, no noise, and gazingdown at a fragile, beautiful
blue sphere hanging against thebackdrop of infinite darkness.
Now imagine returning to Earthand never seeing the world the
(01:22):
same way again.
I'm Ajay Tagala. Ranger with theNational Trust on Wicken Fen in
Cambridgeshire.
Welcome to Wild Tales, theOverview Effect.
(01:47):
Today, let's explore space,perspective, and how seeing the
Earth from a different point ofview changes everything about
the way we interact with theworld and each other.
We're examining something calledthe Overview Effect, a
mind-bending shift experiencedby astronauts when they see the
(02:07):
Earth from space. We'll hearfrom astronaut Tim Peake, artist
Luke Jerram, and reaction toLuke's recent artwork, Helios,
which enables the general publicto experience some of the awe
and wonder of our solar systemwithout needing to fly in a
rocket.
(02:30):
The first step on the mission tounderstand the Overview Effect
leads us to Dyffryn Gardens nearCardiff.
It's a 55-acre Edwardian estatefeaturing beautiful gardens, an
arboretum, and was originallydesigned and built in the 1890s.
EARL SMITH (02:49):
My name is Luke
Jerram and I'm the artist behind
this sun artwork, Helios, whichis here in Cardiff.
This is a seven meter sculptureof the sun and it's composed of
400,000 photographs of thesurface of the sun. So it allows
the public to see all thedetails, all the sunspots,
(03:10):
filaments, spicules in perfectdetail.
And it's suspended from a trussover the gardens and then in the
background we've got thebeautiful house for everyone to
see as well. So yeah it looksreally nice and in fact further
down the garden there's thisbeautiful long, almost like a
long pond I suppose. Thatcreates beautiful reflections of
this sun artwork in that pond.
AJAY TEGALA (03:30):
A crew are busily
checking every aspect of the
artwork.
EARL SMITH (03:34):
We've suspended
artworks like this from trees
over lakes. We've suspended themfrom buildings, cranes, all
around the world, from Hong Kongto Dubai, from Sydney to Los
Angeles. I have a lot ofexperience of presenting it in
different contexts.
AJAY TEGALA (03:50):
Are there any
common reactions from the
audiences around the world?
EARL SMITH (03:54):
There's a sense of
awe and wonder when people
experience these artworks. Andthis artwork of the sun is
internally illuminated, so inthe evening it should be very
beautiful. And it's got thisrippling light that sort of
animates the surface of the sunas well.
AJAY TEGALA (04:11):
So, what originally
started Luke's journey to
becoming an artist when he was achild?
EARL SMITH (04:17):
I was really
interested in drawing and making
things. I was the sort of kidwho would take stuff apart. So
I'd be taking radios or TVsapart to see what was going on
inside. And then, of course, youtried to put them back together
and they'd never quite go backtogether and work properly ever
again. But I think, yeah,artists and scientists and
engineers have got thatcuriosity.
And in fact, I had a place atuniversity to do engineering,
(04:38):
but decided to do an art degreeinstead. But actually that
interest in thinking about thepracticalities and forces and
structures and materials andinventing things, you know, I'm
still using all those ideas fromengineering in my artwork.
AJAY TEGALA (04:53):
But learning the
language of science was only the
first step towards creatingartwork that has been acclaimed
and displayed worldwide.
What other steps were key toLuke's journey in creating
Helios?
EARL SMITH (05:08):
I'm from Bristol.
Bristol's got the second highest
tidal range in the world there,so about 20 years ago, I
remember cycling over the riverand noticing someone had stolen
all the water! And of course,it's the Moon that makes that
happen. And that gave me an ideato make an artwork controlled by
the Moon. And that was a projectcalled Tide, and it took about
two years. I made thisinstallation controlled by the
(05:28):
Moon.
But back then I also had thisidea to make a replica Moon that
would be sort of emerging out ofthe sea, but back then the data
wasn't available from NASA, thatthey hadn't sent up the
satellites, and printingtechnology hadn't been invented,
so I literally had to sort ofsit on the idea for 10 years,
waiting for the opportunity tothen make a beautiful Moon
sculpture. That was the firstproject we made.
(05:51):
In fact, the first Moon we madewas helium-filled, and it
popped! There's a film of me onCBBC of the... I'm like This
thing popping outdoors in veryhigh winds, it's filming me with
my mouth open as all thishelium, three and a half grams
worth of helium just going uplike this!
But anyway, you know, that's thenature of doing new things
sometimes is you have to bewilling to step into the
(06:13):
unknown. You've got to be ableto recover and learn from
mistakes and where things gowrong. So anyway, the Moon was
very successful. I toured it allaround the world, maybe 300
presentations of the Moon. Andwe created an Earth and then
we've created the Mars.
And then the opportunity came upto make the sun and I thought
actually there's that universalappeal isn't there with the sun.
(06:33):
It has significance in everyculture and religion, inspired
music and poetry and the sun isa sort of life source for all
life on our planet so that's oneof the reasons I made this sun.
AJAY TEGALA (06:46):
Creating artwork
that connects people from
different countries and youngand old is a huge challenge.
EARL SMITH (06:53):
I try to make
artworks that have multiple
doors of entry so yeah afour-year-old child will enjoy
running around on the grass andhiding in the shadows and
they'll have a very memorabletime but scientists get very
excited and astronomers get veryexcited by seeing these
sculptures of the Moon or theEarth or the sun as we've got
here up close and seeing all thedetails for the first time but
(07:16):
suppose the thing about the sunis we're not ordinarily allowed
to look at it you know so we'renot used to looking at the
surface of the sun so it's quiteunusual to have an artwork that
provides that opportunity.
AJAY TEGALA (07:27):
It wasn't that long
ago that some people saw art and
science as opposing disciplines.What helped Luke view them as
complementary?
EARL SMITH (07:36):
I think both artists
and scientists are interested in
phenomena. I'm interested ininterrogating the world. What's
a rainbow made of? How does thatwork? You know, what's the
surface of the sun actually looklike? And that interest is,
yeah, universal for bothengineers and scientists and
artists.
With art, I suppose, I'verealised that I can create an
(07:57):
artwork that can reach verylarge audiences and actually
that seems to be quite valuablefor scientists to be able to
communicate their research. SoI'm often collaborating with
scientists and my job is tocommunicate some difficult
scientific ideas and I can dothat through art and bring in
new audiences for them as well.
AJAY TEGALA (08:14):
So, what does it
really feel like to see Earth
from space? Well, to trulyunderstand the Overview
Effect... You need to speak tosomeone who's actually lived it.
Five, Four, three, two, one,zero.
Tim Peake was the first Britishastronaut aboard the
(08:35):
International Space Station. Hespent six months orbiting the
Earth at 17,500 miles per hour,circling the planet more than
2,500 times. We catch up withhim to find out about the
life-changing experience on awalk at the National Trust's
Petworth Park near the SouthDowns.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (08:56):
As a young boy, I
had that fascination of kind of
looking up to the stars in allwonder and had a Lego set, I
remember, with a big rocket onthe back and I loved building
that. And so I guess there wasalways a spark of space right
from the beginning.
AJAY TEGALA (09:13):
Tim's career path
didn't lead directly to becoming
an astronaut. He joined the ArmyAir Corps and eventually became
a helicopter pilot. Over 18years, he served in and tested
many different types ofhelicopters around the world,
including the iconic Apache inthe USA.
(09:34):
As his experiences grew, hefaced a tricky choice, whether
or not to stay in the army andbe promoted out of flying, or
choose a riskier path thatenabled him to stay in the
cockpit as a test pilot. Hechose the latter, and it was
this choice that meant he wasready for the opportunity of a
lifetime.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (09:54):
And that led me
to being right place, right
time, right qualifications whenESA had their selection process.
AJAY TEGALA (10:01):
ESA, or the
European Space Agency, was
recruiting for astronauts, andTim applied and was given a
chance, along with over 8,000high-calibre applicants from all
over Europe. He took part in theyear of tests, gradually getting
down to the last group.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (10:20):
On the internet,
the European Space Agency said,
we're going to announce the newastronauts on Wednesday. On the
Monday night beforehand, thephone rang. And it was a number
from Paris. And I thought, well,this is the rejection call
because whoever is beingselected, they would have been
told at least a week in advance.They would have probably already
been out to Paris.
They would be prepped. Theywould have had some PR training,
(10:43):
all the rest of it. This isMonday night, can't possibly be
me. So I was fully expecting tohave a pleasant conversation to
be told, I'm sorry you didn'tmake it. And the conversation
went the other way. They said,can you be in Paris on
Wednesday? We'd like you to jointhe European Astronaut Corps.
AJAY TEGALA (10:59):
Despite the huge
upheaval it had been for his
family, Tim felt it was anopportunity he couldn't miss.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (11:06):
We didn't know
where we would be living, what
life would be like, but it wasone of those things you just
have to grasp the opportunitywith both hands and how could
you possibly say no to being anastronaut?
AJAY TEGALA (11:17):
Tim moved his
family to Cologne in Germany and
began the extensive trainingrequired to blast off into
space.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (11:25):
There's a huge
amount of training to become an
astronaut. For a mission to theInternational Space Station.
AJAY TEGALA (11:32):
Tim's life became a
whirlwind of Russian language
lessons, survival training inSiberian forests, underwater
spacewalk simulations, and evendeep cave exploration in
Sardinia to test how he operatedin extreme isolated
environments.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (11:50):
If you want to be
a space station astronaut, you
need to be able to fly thespacecraft, dock the spacecraf,
do all the cargo operations, doall the maintenance, use the
robotic arm, conduct aspacewalk, be the doctor, be the
dentist, be the electrician, bethe plumber, be the IT guy who
strips down the computer and wehaven't even spoken about the
(12:11):
science yet. So you're talkingabout two and a half years of
basic training, which all spacestation crew members do and
that's great because it meansthat whether you're from Japan
or from Russia or from Canada orfrom Europe you're all doing
that same basic trainingpackage.
AJAY TEGALA (12:29):
And finally, after
years of preparation and
sacrifice, the moment arrives,sitting on top of a rocket
waiting to blast off to space ona mission to the ISS.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (12:45):
Sitting on top of
the rocket is quite an
interesting time because you'vehad so much happen before in
your career as an astronaut todate in terms of whoever becomes
an astronaut you have given up aprevious career at which you
were very good. If you weren'tvery good at it you wouldn't
have been chosen to be anastronaut so everybody has
sacrificed a very good careerdoing something they loved and
(13:06):
something they were passionateabout and you've gambled all of
that on "will i get a mission tospace?" You've gone through many
many years of training which hashad huge family upheaval.
Probably seeing your family lessthan 50% of the time for all of
those years. And you've kind ofhad this whirlwind of
preparation in getting you tothe point where you're going to
(13:27):
sit on top of a rocket. And thenfinally, you're on top of the
rocket. And it's the culminationof all of that. And the hatch
closes and you have this kind ofchange of mindset, really, where
you're just focused on themission ahead. And the only
thing you're nervous about isnot going. People think "you're
not scared taking a trip on arocket to space?" It's like, no!
I'm nervous about the launchbeing scrubbed and for some
(13:49):
reason not getting to space.
AJAY TEGALA (13:57):
Tim bursts a
misconception about the moments
before takeoff.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (14:02):
We don't actually
have a countdown. That's one of
the most surprising things forpeople is outside they have a
countdown. If you're watchingthe launch, you've got a nice
board there which has got yourcountdown ticking away for the
press and for the family andfriends watching the launch but
inside the spacecraft what we'redoing is we're going through the
checklist and then we're alsowatching the systems come online
(14:24):
so for us 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 that'snot important at all. What's
important for us are things likethe fuel systems pressurized,
the turbo pumps are up andrunning the engines are at 50
the engines are at 75 theengines are at 100 percent, two
second hold and now we go.
(14:45):
It's very hard to feel thatmoment because there's so much
vibration, there's so much noisethat you don't actually feel the
rocket lifting off the launchpad. It's only after probably
about three or four seconds. Theg-force starts to kick in as the
rocket builds speed and then youstart getting pressed into your
(15:05):
seat you realize yeah we'redefinitely on our way now.
AJAY TEGALA (15:08):
Tim described the
experience of being inside a
rocket like being inside a giantpower tool.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (15:15):
In terms of the
g-force it kind of builds
gradually but rapidly up toabout 4 G's and then the first
stage boosters get jettisonedand then the g-force completely
washes off at that point. As thesecond stage picks up, so for a
moment there you feel almost alittle bit weightless in the
rocket as those first stageboosters fall away. It feels
(15:36):
like you're kind of pitchingforward, if you didn't know
better, you might think, oh,we're falling back to Earth
again. It's quite disconcerting.But then the second stage picks
up and it's a much gentler rideon the second stage, so about
two Gs. And then the secondstage drops off and the third
stage picks up and the thirdstage. By now you're up in space
and the rocket is horizontal,it's not vertical anymore.
It's pretty much got most thealtitude it needs. It now needs
(15:59):
speed. So the third stage isabsolute acceleration. It's
mind-blowing. It's back up to4g's. That's getting you from
probably about 10 times thespeed of sound up to 25 times
the speed of sound. So that's 17and a half thousand miles an
hour. You can't reallycomprehend what that's like.
AJAY TEGALA (16:20):
The journey from
Earth to space only takes nine
minutes and as you can hear itis hard to put into words the
feeling of leaving the planet onwhich you have thus far spent
your whole life and getting tospace.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (16:36):
It's an
absolutely crazy nine minutes.
There's a huge amount of fun aswell, a huge adrenaline rush and
at the same time you've got thischildish excitement of what's
going on mixed with theprofessional astronaut who's
kind of keeping an eye on on therocket on the way up but when
the main engines cut out,everything goes really quiet and
(17:01):
everything floats up into thecockpit so you instantly you can
let go of your checklist andit's floating in front of you
for the first time you're kindof experiencing proper
weightlessness in orbit and thenyou can unstrap you can take
your gloves off you can lift upthe visor on your space suit you
can look out of the window andhave a I glanced down at Earth
for the first time.
AJAY TEGALA (17:22):
Tim describes the
moment he first saw the Earth
from space.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (17:26):
The first moment
I saw the Earth was from the
Soyuz. First time I kind offloated up out the seat. And we
were going into the nightbecause it had been a late
evening launch in December. Sowe were going over the Sea Of
Japan and darkness was all infront. We were just about to
coast out over the Pacific. Andthe first thing I saw was this
beautiful moonrise over thewater. And that was just
(17:49):
stunning to see that from space.And then all the stars came out
with no light pollution andyou're kind of looking up at the
Milky Way.
And it was a nice way of seeingEarth because it actually gave
me more appreciation for when Isaw Earth in the daytime. We had
this stunning sunrise and thenyou see the beautiful blue
marble of our planet.
(18:12):
So I really loved the fact thatit was revealed to me more
slowly, rather than just kind ofinto space and bang, there it
is, full daylight.
AJAY TEGALA (18:27):
So, as Tim began to
take in this beautiful scene,
what details drew his eye?
TIMOTHY PEAKE (18:33):
The way the Earth
reveals itself is incredible
because it's geology that standsout, and the weather systems. We
talk about it being a bluemarble and it, of course,
two-thirds...
Of the planets covered in oceanso you would expect to see those
beautiful blues of the ocean andthe white clouds but when you're
looking at the continents it'sthe the rock strata that stands
out or it's the color thatstands out so the Sahara desert
(18:55):
for example is the beautifulorange color that you get it's
like looking at a martianlandscape sand dunes that are
hundreds of meters tall makingthese incredible patterns the
bright orange ripple effect Ordown in Eritrea and Ethiopia and
you get this amazing rockstrata.
Or the rainforests where you getthe lush green coming out. Or
(19:17):
when we launched it was winterso the continent of North
America was just covered in snowand ice. So it's big picture
stuff. And then once you've beenwowed by the big picture stuff,
your eye starts to kind of honein and pick out the details.
And that might be volcanoes thatyou'll see. It might be... Big
ice shelves that are carving offfrom Antarctica and then kind of
(19:39):
floating up and kind of enjoythen as time goes on picking out
those smaller details almostlike precious moments just for
yourself where you might be thefirst person to notice a volcano
erupting in Kamchatka.
AJAY TEGALA (19:52):
Observing from
space the way Tim thought about
the world began to change.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (19:57):
You just see the
continents there are no borders
You don't see any lines on themap, so if you see something
amazing, like, oh, look at thatasteroid impact crater, get a
photograph of it, and now I wantto know where is it, and I've
got no idea.
I might know that it's in NorthAfrica, but there are no lines
on the map exactly, so Icouldn't tell exactly which
(20:18):
country in North Africa it wasin. And that's true for the
whole globe, so you're seeingthings on a planetary scale.
You're looking at the amazinggeology of Earth rather than
actually the individualcountries of Earth.
AJAY TEGALA (20:32):
And so focusing on
the Overview Effect, what did
this experience of seeing Earthadd up to for Tim?
TIMOTHY PEAKE (20:38):
The Overview
Effect is something that
astronauts have been reportingback from the very early days of
human spaceflight. And I thinkit's described as a cognitive
shift in perspective of seeingyour home planet from space. And
it's different for differentpeople. I think at some level
it's certainly spiritual foreverybody to see it.
And what strikes me really aboutseeing Earth from space is the
(21:01):
isolation, I think. It is veryremote, very isolated. It's this
tiny, rocky jewel of a planet.And it's very special when you
see it from space. There's nodoubting that there is a
vibrant, lively planet downthere. Against the vast black
drop of space, you kind ofthink, wow, you know, that's it,
that's home.
AJAY TEGALA (21:21):
Returning to Earth,
Sounds more of a scary
experience than taking off insome ways, as the physics are
reversed and the rocket descendsat terrifying speeds of
thousands of miles an hour.
Tim arrived back safely and hislife continued at a fast pace,
(21:42):
as he continued to work in thespace industry and used his
profile to fundraise forcharities, communicating with
young and old how important itis to treasure and look after
the world we live in.
Back at Luke Jerram's artwork,The Helios, what does Tim feel
the role of art can play inhelping the public experience
(22:03):
something akin to the OverviewEffect? And how will that then
change the way that we lookafter our planet?
TIMOTHY PEAKE (22:10):
I think that kind
of work is incredibly important
with artists who are trying tohelp people to visualise what
space is like, what our solarsystem is like, our sun and our
home planet. When we go intospace, we're so lucky we see
that with our own eyes andthere's no hiding from it.
There's no hiding from the levelof isolation and remoteness that
(22:32):
you feel, not just as anindividual in space, but you
feel that for the whole planet.You think, oh God, that's it,
that tiny little rock.
And the sun is magnificent. TheMoon is beautiful. But here on
Earth, it's very easy to notappreciate that. We've got a
lovely blue sky above us todayand you don't really... think
about the fact that that's notnice and comforting and blue up
(22:53):
there that's really scary blackand it goes on for infinity and
16 kilometers up there you knowyou're going to be in an
incredibly hostile environmentand the sun is not this warm
yellow glow that we all draw askids the sun is this bright
white nuclear fusion reactionit's this amazing star that's
powering the whole solar system.
(23:14):
And I think art plays a reallyvaluable part in helping people
to visualise that and helpingpeople to appreciate the
realities of what it's like outin space.
AJAY TEGALA (23:26):
So with that in
mind, returning to Luke Jerram's
artwork, how did members of thepublic respond to seeing Helios?
CARRIE (23:34):
I'm Carrie. My first
response was just awe. I spent
quite a long time just sort ofsitting under it, around it,
seeing the differentperspectives, seeing the detail
of it it's more than maybe you'dexpect You just think, oh, big
sun, that'll be really cool, andthen actually it kind of draws
you in and you just kind of wantto hang out around it, really.
EARL SMITH (23:53):
I'm Earl Smith.
Yeah, it certainly is
significant. The colours andjust the shape of it all is
truly amazing.
SUE FROST (24:00):
I'm Sue Frost. Quite
impressive, I think, isn't it?
But I never knew that hotspotswere specifically in those
spaces. I thought they mightkind of move all over the place.
I find it quite immersive andquite mesmerising, if I'm
honest.
CARRIE (24:13):
It is that
awe-inspiring, oh wow, that's
what keeps us alive, that's whatbrings life. And I think it is
that sheer scale and theawesomeness of our solar system
and of our Earth. It brings abit of hope as well. Actually,
we are like stewards of thisplanet, we have a lot to care
for.
AJAY TEGALA (24:31):
And now, a final
reflection from Tim.
TIMOTHY PEAKE (24:34):
It makes you
appreciate that we are all
sharing the atmosphere, becauseyou see with every one of those
sunrises and sunsets, you seehow thin the atmosphere is. 16
kilometers, that's nothing. Andwhen the sunlight goes through
it, it's this tiny, tiny stripof gas. You kind of think, wow,
you know, how lucky are we thatEarth has trapped that layer of
(24:54):
gas.
And that layer of gas is justthe right composition at the
moment to sustain all life as welive. We know it. And so as far
as we know, you know, we're theonly planet in the solar system
where there is life. Could be onthe moons of Jupiter and Saturn
where there are liquid oceans,who knows. But it makes you
appreciate what we have downhere. And you also see how
interconnected everything is.
(25:17):
You see the vast weathersystems. You can see them
building in the Atlantic inhurricane season. You can see
the dust storms in the Saharaand the impact it has. We had
the wildfires in Alberta when Iwas on board in 2016, spread
across the whole continent ofNorth America, and you see the
smoke just trapped in our tinyatmosphere spreading.
And it makes you realise thateverything's connected, and that
(25:40):
thin atmosphere, there's only somuch that you can put into it
before it starts to affecteverybody on the planet.
AJAY TEGALA (25:49):
Tim Peake's time in
space lasted 186 days. But its
impact has reached far beyondthe confines of the
International Space Station andinspired people from all around
the world. Perhaps that's one ofthe lasting legacies of his
space travel. Not just thescientific or technological
achievements, but the valuableperspective it offers each one
(26:11):
of us.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Wild Tales. If you
liked it, why not give us a likeor a follow? We will be back
soon with another episode in acouple of weeks. But if you
(26:32):
can't wait that long, why notcheck out our other nature
podcast, Nature Fix? Or if youlike your history too, there's
Back When. I'll see you nexttime.