Welcome! This is ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast: Elderwomen, Older women and Grandmothers on the Move!
What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series... 'Age With Rights and Dignity' - 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world. These committed champions and advocates will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons, and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the rights of older persons into being - for you and me, no matter how old we are now!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:24):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions willshare with us why they care
about the rights of olderpersons and what they are doing
to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the Rights
of Older Persons into being,for you and for me, no matter
how old we are.
(00:45):
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-E dot com and
sign the global petition for theUN Convention on the Rights of
(01:06):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Gowenis.
Thank you for joining us.
Enjoy this special initiative.
Faith Young and Kira Gowenis,thank you for joining us, enjoy
(01:27):
this special initiative, and mythanks to Margaret Young, the
founder of Age Noble, forbringing this opportunity to us
to hear from these importantguests who promote the human
rights and the dignity of olderpersons the world over.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hello, my name is Kira and I'm a guest interviewer
on today's Wisdom at Workpodcast.
I'm currently a universitystudent studying psychology,
with plans to specialize ingerontology.
I care deeply about supportingthe mental health and rights of
older adults, so I'm reallylooking forward to speaking with
(02:01):
our guest today.
Forward to speaking with ourguests today.
Catherine Elise Dumont has beenworking with and for older
people since age 18.
A common theme throughout her27-year career is her passion
for supporting older people andovercoming the vulnerabilities
that come from social isolationand loneliness.
Her journey started in France,but her roots are now Mexico.
(02:23):
In 2012, she founded Amigos delos Mayores, or Friends of the
Elderly, with a small space in aparish for older people to meet
and gather.
Today, the organization offersconnections and community
through 11-day centers in thestate of Morelos, in the heart
of Mexico.
This work on the ground is notthe only space where Catherine
(02:45):
pursues change to better thelives of older people.
With her academic background inpsychology, law and gerontology
, catherine teaches and impartsher knowledge supported by lived
experiences.
She hosts a Mayor's Club radioprogram every Tuesday by for and
with elders.
She's active in national andregional associations and she
(03:08):
advocates for the human rightsof older people and a UN
convention for these rights atthe United Nations.
Today, catherine will tell usmore about her work from the
lens of the right to be freefrom neglect and abuse in older
age.
Joining us from Mexico City,she'll be speaking in English,
which is, impressively, herthird language.
(03:29):
It's a testament to herdedication and skill, and I'm so
grateful for the opportunity tohear her insights.
Catherine, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I'd love to start by learningmore about your journey.
What sparked your interest inthis work and how did it shape
the path that you've taken since?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yes, I began to be a volunteer in a French
association the name is PetitFrère des Pauvres and the other
names in English is friends ofthe older persons now, and I
visited elders in situation ofsocial isolation.
(04:12):
It was very, very hard inFrance, in Paris, because Paris
is a big city, a beautiful cityand nobody knows that the elders
people are dying alone.
Until the pandemic period, butbefore the pandemic period it
(04:45):
was in Mexico to dointernational solidarity,
volunteering.
And doing the internationalsolidarity volunteering, I do
the constatation that there arenothing for older people in
Mexico.
All the polity is on the kidsand teenagers and nothing for
the elders.
(05:07):
And I had the experience inFrance with my volunteers, with
the elders.
Then I speak with Father Abelin the parish and I say we need
to do something for the eldersbecause everybody thinks in
Mexico in this time that theelders was very happy with the
(05:29):
family and good, and no, it'snot.
Then I, we, we am, we beginlike that.
At the beginning we have onlyfour people and now we have 450
people in 11 day centers in theMoeller state.
(05:50):
It's a state near Mexico City,then in the center of the
country.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
You spoke a bit about volunteering with older adults
who are experiencing socialisolation.
What other forms of elder abusehave you personally observed in
Mexico?
As I know, social isolation isonly one example of the many
different forms.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The physical abuse yes, I saw it with people who
are accompanied, but it's notthe principle Really really is
emotional and psychologicalabuse and really really against
the woman.
Why?
(06:41):
Because the woman, thesituation of the woman before it
was very hard and the olderwomen used to receive emotional
and psychological abuse, butthey don't know that it's an
abuse against them.
(07:02):
It's an abuse against thembecause for the childhood, the
teenager and after, when shemarried with her husband, they
receive emotional andpsychological abuse, but it's an
(07:23):
invisible abuse.
It's an abuse that for them isnormal, it's a normativity in
her life.
It's very hard to speak withthem.
They say no, I have a littlespace, who I receive older women
and I am very, very happy whenthey say they say no.
(07:44):
Now I do something for myself,because all my life I do for the
, for my parents, for mybrothers, for my husband, for my
child, but I forget completelymy one life.
And now I do something for me.
(08:04):
Now I love me.
Now it's very, very importantbecause it's a submission of the
woman, not only with the manbut for the woman all their life
.
Then when they arrive in theelder wood they do the same
(08:28):
system.
Oh, okay, yes, my son, and it'svery difficult.
We have economic abuse,patrimonial abuse, when they
stole the house, the document ofthe house, okay, the house, the
document of the house, okay.
And they say, oh, mommy, I willtake care of you, but please
(08:51):
give me the document of thehouse, okay, my son Okay.
And the son receives thedocument of the house and after
that, two months, three months,they put the mother in the home
cage and they disappeared.
(09:11):
It's many cases like this.
Or we have the situation thatnow more and more elders in
Mexico send candies, send smallthings to have money.
Candies send small things tohave money Because the son and
the daughter say go in thisplace, in this street, and you
(09:35):
will stay doing all day long tosend, and I saw that in Mexico.
I saw that in Mexico that theygo with the parents.
Parents can work very well inplace with the candies, and more
and more.
Before, when I came in 2007, no, but now yes, and it's like a
(10:03):
traffic, it's like illegal laborbut, other parents.
It's like a traffic, it's likeillegal labor.
But older parents are very,very afraid to have no longer
contact with children, with sonsor with grandchildren.
Then accept everything they'revery afraid.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So there is the law on the rights of older persons,
and Mexico has ratified theInter-American Convention on the
Rights of Older Persons, thougholder people in Mexico are
clearly still not free from thisneglect and abuse.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Before we talk, about why, in your opinion, that
might be and what you think canbe done.
Do you mind sharing someinformation on what the
Inter-American Convention is?
The Inter-American Conventionis a super legal document who
(11:16):
was created in 2015 with theOrganization of American States
in Washington DC to protectbecause the word of protection
is in the title and it's very,very important to protect the
human rights of the olderpeoples.
To protect the human rights ofthe older peoples, because in
(11:36):
Latin America the population isaging and is not very protected
for the law or for the decreesof each country, then it's very
important that they have a legaldocument, supra-legal document,
up the constitution of thenational law to protect the
human rights of the other people.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Do you mind sharing a little bit about the work that
you did to get theInter-American Convention
ratified?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I did confidences before to sign and to ratify the
Inter-American Convention andevery confidences that I did.
I spoke about theInter-American Convention, the
need to sign and to ratify theconvention, but the problem is
(12:28):
it's only, like I said, and mycountry in France, only at the
people who know.
The problem is to speak withthe people, with the other
person who doesn't know.
People who live in thecountries, people who live
completely alone, don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Do you have any thoughts on how you can make
people know about?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
it.
I think that the more people Idon't know if you know about the
telenovela Yep On the TV setand I think that the
Inter-American Convention willbe in a telenovela.
Yep on the tv set and I thinkthat the inter-american
convention will be in atelenovela, it's true, it's
(13:15):
great idea um and um.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
actually, katherine, if you don't mind, I just want
to pause here for one second.
For those who may not know,telenovelas are serialized
dramas that are able to reachmillions of people across all
demographics, especiallyeveryday individuals, and what's
fascinating about telenovelasis they're able to rise above
(13:41):
barriers like age or income toensure that critical messages
resonate with a wide audience.
So they're essentially adrama-filled TV show, but have
the ability to weave importantsocietal issues into their
storytelling, which makes themso impactful.
(14:01):
And that's why it's such aninteresting thought and a really
creative way to think aboutmaking the Inter-American
Convention more accessible.
So I'm sorry for cutting youoff, catherine.
You were just talking about theInter-American Convention and
it being more accessible, if youwant to pick back up from there
(14:24):
want to pick back up from there.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think that we need to go down the Inter-American
Convention in really economicclass vulnerables with their
language, with theirunderstanding.
I think that is very importantnow to adapt, not to adapt the
document because the document isgood, but to adapt the
(14:53):
situation with hapers.
It's important to make moreaccessible the international
(15:15):
convention to the elders and tothe son and daughter of the
elders.
But the problem not all, ofcourse, but many sons and many
daughters have a compartment, ofcourse, but many sons and many
daughters have a compartment abehavior very, very sad hard and
(15:36):
bad against balance.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Okay, yeah, so how do you think having an
international United Nationsconvention on the rights of
older persons could help protectolder people from the kind of
neglect and abuse that you'vebeen talking about, so they can
fully enjoy their rights andalso be included in society?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think that's a big, big difference.
Because I have a friend whoworks with older people.
But my friend has other friendswho work with kids, with child,
and they say to me that thefact that her friends work with
(16:24):
the child, they have aprotection, international
protection, more with theinternational convention for the
protection of the human rightof the child, because the
international convention isstronger than Mexican
constitution, because it's aninternational convention.
(16:46):
Then my friend who works witholder people said to me that
when the world, and of coursehere Mexico, will do the things
mentioned inside of theinternational convention for the
(17:09):
human rights of the olderpeople, then no institution will
say I don't know, I do what Iwant.
No, no longer, you can do whatyou want.
You need to obey, you need todo that the international
(17:31):
convention do.
The difference with theinter-American convention is
that it's not the same height.
I think that the internationalconvention will be stronger,
will be really stronger.
But I think that it's veryimportant that now from now, we
(17:56):
speak about the Inter-AmericanConvention.
Why?
Because when we will have aninternational convention,
mexican people, whole lot ofpeople, mexican people will say,
ah, okay, yes, I understand, wehave the Inter-American
Convention and now theInternational Convention.
Okay, because it will beinforming.
(18:20):
Okay, the question here is toinform, to inform the population
, because the generation ofolder people it's changing here
in Mexico.
Before the older people werevery quiet, very silent and
(18:41):
quiet, didn't know about thehuman world.
Now the new generation of olderpeople is more informed about
what's happened in the world,then it's very different.
It's not the same generation.
For me, the 80 years people to19, one on one, it's a
(19:04):
generation.
And the 60, 70 people, theyknow to use the new technology,
they know about Internet, thenit's more informing and then
they know that they have humanrights with forces.
But many people who live in thecountry, who don't live in the
(19:25):
city, it's more withoutinformation.
Then we need to go in everypart of Mexico to speak about
the human rights of the olderpeople, because if we do that
only in the Mexico City or inthe biggest cities of Mexico, we
(19:45):
put out a very large part ofolder people.
Our mission is to go to thecounties, small counties, to
speak about that.
Then I hope really that we willhave the UN Convention and of
course our job when we will havethe UN Convention is to
(20:09):
communicate of the UN Conventionin each state of Mexico and,
like I said to you, to be moreaccessible for the understanding
to the other people, and I hopethat in Mexico one day I don't
know, one day we will aninstitution completely dedicated
(20:34):
to the other people's verystrong.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think that the change, like everything in
Mexico, we will arrive from thecommunity to add on to what
you're speaking about, I knowthat you attended the human
rights council session back in2023 where the topic of elder
(20:58):
abuse was discussed andadvocates for older people from
around the world were present.
Can you share any reflectionson your experience there and
what stood out to you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Look, I know that in several countries there are
child assemblies when they speakabout the human rights of the
child, but I don't.
But I think that when theyspeak about the situation in the
(21:31):
UN Human Rights Council, Ithink that it's very, very
important to have a panel of theolder people of the world and
to give them the opportunity tospeak about their life, about
(21:51):
the necessity, the obligation tohave international convention.
Then really and we the mostappreciate, about the meeting
with Argentina representative,very, very good meeting.
Then we'll speak about that.
(22:12):
But I think that we need anassembly with all the people who
decided about their humanrights, really.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And do you mind sharing any final thoughts that
you may have on the importanceof the right to be free from
abuse and neglect and how, ofcourse, it ties into the broader
human rights are abused, or?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
neglected in their life.
They can't provide about theother human rights.
(23:03):
I'll give you an explanation.
I take the example of an olderwoman who all along their son
abused about her in the way ofemotionally Okay.
And then this woman, this olderwoman, feels very bad.
(23:26):
How can this woman say, okay, Ifeel very bad, but I will
participate, I will go thisafternoon to participate in the
community meeting.
It's not possible, okay.
Or a woman who received hurtfrom the husband of the son and
(23:57):
said, okay, my husband hurts me,but this afternoon I will be to
do a activity.
Action, it's not possible.
Then I think that we need tobegin to fight the abuse and the
neglect and the violenceagainst the older woman or older
(24:19):
people in general.
You understand me, because ifyou fight at first this form of
violence, you can't do the otherforms of the protection of the
human rights of the other people.
Then, at the first end, fightabout the hurts, the
(24:43):
psychological hurts, emotionalhurts, economic abuse, sexual
abuse and other.
And this is the first and after.
I remember that when I got in2019, the first section about
why we give reflections it wasabout education, the education
(25:10):
for the older people.
But how a woman who suffers ofviolence every day can think
about okay, I will be in thehigh school, because when I was
a teenager I couldn't go to thehigh school.
No, it's not possible.
(25:31):
We need that the older peopledon't have problems about abuse
on English to provide to enjoythe other human rights.
You understand me.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Right.
Do you mind speaking a bit moreon how older women are being
left out of this conversation ofabuse?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I think that you know that the next Monday is the day
of the elimination of violenceagainst women.
I think that it's very, veryimportant to speak about the
violence against older women,because every time people in
(26:26):
general think that women areonly child, teenager, young
people and women who can have ababy, but they don't think about
the older women.
Then I think it's very, veryimportant.
We will do a campaign.
(26:48):
I belong to WhatsApp group withgerontology woman,
gerontologist woman, and weshare about the campaign of each
one, okay, of this group.
Then I think it's veryimportant that the older women
(27:12):
say okay, I am living thissituation, I am living in the
situation of violence, I amliving a situation of abuse.
As a first, it's very importantthat older people, women or men
, recognize the situation of theabused and the needless where
(27:35):
they are.
But because I can imagine thatthe person who harbors, who
hurts older people, they say oh,yes, I am committing an abuse
now.
No, okay.
Then the first that other peoplerecognize because, like I said
(27:58):
before, for many other peoplenow it's normativity, it's
something normal about the diary, about the life.
Then I think that it's veryimportant that the same older
people recognize that thesituation of their life is a
situation of abuse, of thenegligence, when they recognize
(28:23):
the population in general andmore.
The geontologists, the lawyers,the political people say, okay,
go to see us and we will helpyou.
But the first is that all thepeople recognize, or if they can
(28:48):
recognize, that thepsychologist say the situation
that you have is a situation ofabuse, the situation that you
have is a situation of neglect.
And then the same people, thesame older people, say, oh,
you're white.
I didn't recognize thissituation before.
(29:11):
But now that you explained tome that if my husband speak to
me for this way, this is my kids, this is my son or my daughter,
this is an abuse, this is inNegles, okay, then I think that
this is the first step and very,very soon after, to recognize
(29:34):
from the other people thesituation of abuse of Negles,
then the population, mexicanpopulation, needs to have the
services and the recourse tohelp the other people.
And the services and therecourse it will be easier to
obtain if we have theinternational convention,
(29:58):
because international conventionsay to the Mexican government
you must to adapt your law andyour institution with my
international convention thankyou so much for sharing your
insights on this topic and justin general.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I really have appreciated you taking some time
out of your day today to speakwith me.
I've learned so much from youand I appreciate your passion
around this very important topic.
Older persons are very, verylucky to have you advocating for
them.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thank you.
Thank you very much and I am atyour disposal when you want.
Okay, I hope you take care.
Okay, take care.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Bye.
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:24):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions willshare with us why they care
about the rights of olderpersons and what they are doing
to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the Rights
of Older Persons into being,for you and for me, no matter
how old we are.
(00:45):
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-E dot com and
sign the global petition for theUN Convention on the Rights of
(01:06):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Gowenis.
Thank you for joining us.
Enjoy this special initiative.
Faith Young and Kira Gowenis,thank you for joining us, enjoy
(01:27):
this special initiative, and mythanks to Margaret Young, the
founder of Age Noble, forbringing this opportunity to us
to hear from these importantguests who promote the human
rights and the dignity of olderpersons the world over.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hello, my name is Kira and I'm a guest interviewer
on today's Wisdom at Workpodcast.
I'm currently a universitystudent studying psychology,
with plans to specialize ingerontology.
I care deeply about supportingthe mental health and rights of
older adults, so I'm reallylooking forward to speaking with
(02:01):
our guest today.
Forward to speaking with ourguests today.
Catherine Elise Dumont has beenworking with and for older
people since age 18.
A common theme throughout her27-year career is her passion
for supporting older people andovercoming the vulnerabilities
that come from social isolationand loneliness.
Her journey started in France,but her roots are now Mexico.
(02:23):
In 2012, she founded Amigos delos Mayores, or Friends of the
Elderly, with a small space in aparish for older people to meet
and gather.
Today, the organization offersconnections and community
through 11-day centers in thestate of Morelos, in the heart
of Mexico.
This work on the ground is notthe only space where Catherine
(02:45):
pursues change to better thelives of older people.
With her academic background inpsychology, law and gerontology
, catherine teaches and impartsher knowledge supported by lived
experiences.
She hosts a Mayor's Club radioprogram every Tuesday by for and
with elders.
She's active in national andregional associations and she
(03:08):
advocates for the human rightsof older people and a UN
convention for these rights atthe United Nations.
Today, catherine will tell usmore about her work from the
lens of the right to be freefrom neglect and abuse in older
age.
Joining us from Mexico City,she'll be speaking in English,
which is, impressively, herthird language.
(03:29):
It's a testament to herdedication and skill, and I'm so
grateful for the opportunity tohear her insights.
Catherine, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I'd love to start by learningmore about your journey.
What sparked your interest inthis work and how did it shape
the path that you've taken since?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yes, I began to be a volunteer in a French
association the name is PetitFrère des Pauvres and the other
names in English is friends ofthe older persons now, and I
visited elders in situation ofsocial isolation.
(04:12):
It was very, very hard inFrance, in Paris, because Paris
is a big city, a beautiful cityand nobody knows that the elders
people are dying alone.
Until the pandemic period, butbefore the pandemic period it
(04:45):
was in Mexico to dointernational solidarity,
volunteering.
And doing the internationalsolidarity volunteering, I do
the constatation that there arenothing for older people in
Mexico.
All the polity is on the kidsand teenagers and nothing for
the elders.
(05:07):
And I had the experience inFrance with my volunteers, with
the elders.
Then I speak with Father Abelin the parish and I say we need
to do something for the eldersbecause everybody thinks in
Mexico in this time that theelders was very happy with the
(05:29):
family and good, and no, it'snot.
Then I, we, we am, we beginlike that.
At the beginning we have onlyfour people and now we have 450
people in 11 day centers in theMoeller state.
(05:50):
It's a state near Mexico City,then in the center of the
country.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
You spoke a bit about volunteering with older adults
who are experiencing socialisolation.
What other forms of elder abusehave you personally observed in
Mexico?
As I know, social isolation isonly one example of the many
different forms.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The physical abuse yes, I saw it with people who
are accompanied, but it's notthe principle Really really is
emotional and psychologicalabuse and really really against
the woman.
Why?
(06:41):
Because the woman, thesituation of the woman before it
was very hard and the olderwomen used to receive emotional
and psychological abuse, butthey don't know that it's an
abuse against them.
(07:02):
It's an abuse against thembecause for the childhood, the
teenager and after, when shemarried with her husband, they
receive emotional andpsychological abuse, but it's an
(07:23):
invisible abuse.
It's an abuse that for them isnormal, it's a normativity in
her life.
It's very hard to speak withthem.
They say no, I have a littlespace, who I receive older women
and I am very, very happy whenthey say they say no.
(07:44):
Now I do something for myself,because all my life I do for the
, for my parents, for mybrothers, for my husband, for my
child, but I forget completelymy one life.
And now I do something for me.
(08:04):
Now I love me.
Now it's very, very importantbecause it's a submission of the
woman, not only with the manbut for the woman all their life
.
Then when they arrive in theelder wood they do the same
(08:28):
system.
Oh, okay, yes, my son, and it'svery difficult.
We have economic abuse,patrimonial abuse, when they
stole the house, the document ofthe house, okay, the house, the
document of the house, okay.
And they say, oh, mommy, I willtake care of you, but please
(08:51):
give me the document of thehouse, okay, my son Okay.
And the son receives thedocument of the house and after
that, two months, three months,they put the mother in the home
cage and they disappeared.
(09:11):
It's many cases like this.
Or we have the situation thatnow more and more elders in
Mexico send candies, send smallthings to have money.
Candies send small things tohave money Because the son and
the daughter say go in thisplace, in this street, and you
(09:35):
will stay doing all day long tosend, and I saw that in Mexico.
I saw that in Mexico that theygo with the parents.
Parents can work very well inplace with the candies, and more
and more.
Before, when I came in 2007, no, but now yes, and it's like a
(10:03):
traffic, it's like illegal laborbut, other parents.
It's like a traffic, it's likeillegal labor.
But older parents are very,very afraid to have no longer
contact with children, with sonsor with grandchildren.
Then accept everything they'revery afraid.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So there is the law on the rights of older persons,
and Mexico has ratified theInter-American Convention on the
Rights of Older Persons, thougholder people in Mexico are
clearly still not free from thisneglect and abuse.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Before we talk, about why, in your opinion, that
might be and what you think canbe done.
Do you mind sharing someinformation on what the
Inter-American Convention is?
The Inter-American Conventionis a super legal document who
(11:16):
was created in 2015 with theOrganization of American States
in Washington DC to protectbecause the word of protection
is in the title and it's very,very important to protect the
human rights of the olderpeoples.
To protect the human rights ofthe older peoples, because in
(11:36):
Latin America the population isaging and is not very protected
for the law or for the decreesof each country, then it's very
important that they have a legaldocument, supra-legal document,
up the constitution of thenational law to protect the
human rights of the other people.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Do you mind sharing a little bit about the work that
you did to get theInter-American Convention
ratified?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I did confidences before to sign and to ratify the
Inter-American Convention andevery confidences that I did.
I spoke about theInter-American Convention, the
need to sign and to ratify theconvention, but the problem is
(12:28):
it's only, like I said, and mycountry in France, only at the
people who know.
The problem is to speak withthe people, with the other
person who doesn't know.
People who live in thecountries, people who live
completely alone, don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Do you have any thoughts on how you can make
people know about?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
it.
I think that the more people Idon't know if you know about the
telenovela Yep On the TV setand I think that the
Inter-American Convention willbe in a telenovela.
Yep on the tv set and I thinkthat the inter-american
convention will be in atelenovela, it's true, it's
(13:15):
great idea um and um.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
actually, katherine, if you don't mind, I just want
to pause here for one second.
For those who may not know,telenovelas are serialized
dramas that are able to reachmillions of people across all
demographics, especiallyeveryday individuals, and what's
fascinating about telenovelasis they're able to rise above
(13:41):
barriers like age or income toensure that critical messages
resonate with a wide audience.
So they're essentially adrama-filled TV show, but have
the ability to weave importantsocietal issues into their
storytelling, which makes themso impactful.
(14:01):
And that's why it's such aninteresting thought and a really
creative way to think aboutmaking the Inter-American
Convention more accessible.
So I'm sorry for cutting youoff, catherine.
You were just talking about theInter-American Convention and
it being more accessible, if youwant to pick back up from there
(14:24):
want to pick back up from there.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think that we need to go down the Inter-American
Convention in really economicclass vulnerables with their
language, with theirunderstanding.
I think that is very importantnow to adapt, not to adapt the
document because the document isgood, but to adapt the
(14:53):
situation with hapers.
It's important to make moreaccessible the international
(15:15):
convention to the elders and tothe son and daughter of the
elders.
But the problem not all, ofcourse, but many sons and many
daughters have a compartment, ofcourse, but many sons and many
daughters have a compartment abehavior very, very sad hard and
(15:36):
bad against balance.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Okay, yeah, so how do you think having an
international United Nationsconvention on the rights of
older persons could help protectolder people from the kind of
neglect and abuse that you'vebeen talking about, so they can
fully enjoy their rights andalso be included in society?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think that's a big, big difference.
Because I have a friend whoworks with older people.
But my friend has other friendswho work with kids, with child,
and they say to me that thefact that her friends work with
(16:24):
the child, they have aprotection, international
protection, more with theinternational convention for the
protection of the human rightof the child, because the
international convention isstronger than Mexican
constitution, because it's aninternational convention.
(16:46):
Then my friend who works witholder people said to me that
when the world, and of coursehere Mexico, will do the things
mentioned inside of theinternational convention for the
(17:09):
human rights of the olderpeople, then no institution will
say I don't know, I do what Iwant.
No, no longer, you can do whatyou want.
You need to obey, you need todo that the international
(17:31):
convention do.
The difference with theinter-American convention is
that it's not the same height.
I think that the internationalconvention will be stronger,
will be really stronger.
But I think that it's veryimportant that now from now, we
(17:56):
speak about the Inter-AmericanConvention.
Why?
Because when we will have aninternational convention,
mexican people, whole lot ofpeople, mexican people will say,
ah, okay, yes, I understand, wehave the Inter-American
Convention and now theInternational Convention.
Okay, because it will beinforming.
(18:20):
Okay, the question here is toinform, to inform the population
, because the generation ofolder people it's changing here
in Mexico.
Before the older people werevery quiet, very silent and
(18:41):
quiet, didn't know about thehuman world.
Now the new generation of olderpeople is more informed about
what's happened in the world,then it's very different.
It's not the same generation.
For me, the 80 years people to19, one on one, it's a
(19:04):
generation.
And the 60, 70 people, theyknow to use the new technology,
they know about Internet, thenit's more informing and then
they know that they have humanrights with forces.
But many people who live in thecountry, who don't live in the
(19:25):
city, it's more withoutinformation.
Then we need to go in everypart of Mexico to speak about
the human rights of the olderpeople, because if we do that
only in the Mexico City or inthe biggest cities of Mexico, we
(19:45):
put out a very large part ofolder people.
Our mission is to go to thecounties, small counties, to
speak about that.
Then I hope really that we willhave the UN Convention and of
course our job when we will havethe UN Convention is to
(20:09):
communicate of the UN Conventionin each state of Mexico and,
like I said to you, to be moreaccessible for the understanding
to the other people, and I hopethat in Mexico one day I don't
know, one day we will aninstitution completely dedicated
(20:34):
to the other people's verystrong.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think that the change, like everything in
Mexico, we will arrive from thecommunity to add on to what
you're speaking about, I knowthat you attended the human
rights council session back in2023 where the topic of elder
(20:58):
abuse was discussed andadvocates for older people from
around the world were present.
Can you share any reflectionson your experience there and
what stood out to you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Look, I know that in several countries there are
child assemblies when they speakabout the human rights of the
child, but I don't.
But I think that when theyspeak about the situation in the
(21:31):
UN Human Rights Council, Ithink that it's very, very
important to have a panel of theolder people of the world and
to give them the opportunity tospeak about their life, about
(21:51):
the necessity, the obligation tohave international convention.
Then really and we the mostappreciate, about the meeting
with Argentina representative,very, very good meeting.
Then we'll speak about that.
(22:12):
But I think that we need anassembly with all the people who
decided about their humanrights, really.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And do you mind sharing any final thoughts that
you may have on the importanceof the right to be free from
abuse and neglect and how, ofcourse, it ties into the broader
human rights are abused, or?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
neglected in their life.
They can't provide about theother human rights.
(23:03):
I'll give you an explanation.
I take the example of an olderwoman who all along their son
abused about her in the way ofemotionally Okay.
And then this woman, this olderwoman, feels very bad.
(23:26):
How can this woman say, okay, Ifeel very bad, but I will
participate, I will go thisafternoon to participate in the
community meeting.
It's not possible, okay.
Or a woman who received hurtfrom the husband of the son and
(23:57):
said, okay, my husband hurts me,but this afternoon I will be to
do a activity.
Action, it's not possible.
Then I think that we need tobegin to fight the abuse and the
neglect and the violenceagainst the older woman or older
(24:19):
people in general.
You understand me, because ifyou fight at first this form of
violence, you can't do the otherforms of the protection of the
human rights of the other people.
Then, at the first end, fightabout the hurts, the
(24:43):
psychological hurts, emotionalhurts, economic abuse, sexual
abuse and other.
And this is the first and after.
I remember that when I got in2019, the first section about
why we give reflections it wasabout education, the education
(25:10):
for the older people.
But how a woman who suffers ofviolence every day can think
about okay, I will be in thehigh school, because when I was
a teenager I couldn't go to thehigh school.
No, it's not possible.
(25:31):
We need that the older peopledon't have problems about abuse
on English to provide to enjoythe other human rights.
You understand me.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Right.
Do you mind speaking a bit moreon how older women are being
left out of this conversation ofabuse?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I think that you know that the next Monday is the day
of the elimination of violenceagainst women.
I think that it's very, veryimportant to speak about the
violence against older women,because every time people in
(26:26):
general think that women areonly child, teenager, young
people and women who can have ababy, but they don't think about
the older women.
Then I think it's very, veryimportant.
We will do a campaign.
(26:48):
I belong to WhatsApp group withgerontology woman,
gerontologist woman, and weshare about the campaign of each
one, okay, of this group.
Then I think it's veryimportant that the older women
(27:12):
say okay, I am living thissituation, I am living in the
situation of violence, I amliving a situation of abuse.
As a first, it's very importantthat older people, women or men
, recognize the situation of theabused and the needless where
(27:35):
they are.
But because I can imagine thatthe person who harbors, who
hurts older people, they say oh,yes, I am committing an abuse
now.
No, okay.
Then the first that other peoplerecognize because, like I said
(27:58):
before, for many other peoplenow it's normativity, it's
something normal about the diary, about the life.
Then I think that it's veryimportant that the same older
people recognize that thesituation of their life is a
situation of abuse, of thenegligence, when they recognize
(28:23):
the population in general andmore.
The geontologists, the lawyers,the political people say, okay,
go to see us and we will helpyou.
But the first is that all thepeople recognize, or if they can
(28:48):
recognize, that thepsychologist say the situation
that you have is a situation ofabuse, the situation that you
have is a situation of neglect.
And then the same people, thesame older people, say, oh,
you're white.
I didn't recognize thissituation before.
(29:11):
But now that you explained tome that if my husband speak to
me for this way, this is my kids, this is my son or my daughter,
this is an abuse, this is inNegles, okay, then I think that
this is the first step and very,very soon after, to recognize
(29:34):
from the other people thesituation of abuse of Negles,
then the population, mexicanpopulation, needs to have the
services and the recourse tohelp the other people.
And the services and therecourse it will be easier to
obtain if we have theinternational convention,
(29:58):
because international conventionsay to the Mexican government
you must to adapt your law andyour institution with my
international convention thankyou so much for sharing your
insights on this topic and justin general.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I really have appreciated you taking some time
out of your day today to speakwith me.
I've learned so much from youand I appreciate your passion
around this very important topic.
Older persons are very, verylucky to have you advocating for
them.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thank you.
Thank you very much and I am atyour disposal when you want.
Okay, I hope you take care.
Okay, take care.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Bye.
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