Welcome! This is ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast: Elderwomen, Older women and Grandmothers on the Move!
What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series... 'Age With Rights and Dignity' - 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world. These committed champions and advocates will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons, and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the rights of older persons into being - for you and me, no matter how old we are now!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:25):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions andadvocates will share with us why
they care about the rights ofolder persons and what they are
doing to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the
Rights of Older Persons intobeing for you and for me, no
(00:46):
matter how old we are.
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom, and sign
the global petition for the UNConvention on the Rights of
(01:09):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Gowenis.
Thank you for joining us, enjoythis special initiative, and my
thanks to Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble for
(01:31):
bringing this opportunity to usto hear from these important
guests who promote the humanrights and the dignity of older
persons the world over.
In this episode, I have thepleasure of introducing to you
our guest interviewer, faithYoung, interviewing Ferdushi
Begum.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome to the podcast I have here with me
Ferdushi Begum who has kindly?
offered to share her story andinsights.
Ferdushi has been championingand serving older people in her
country of Bangladesh for over24 years.
In her early career, fidushiwas a photo librarian for the
Dirk Photography Institute and aresearch associate at the
(02:12):
Bangladesh Development ResearchCenter and the Impact Monitoring
Evaluation Cell of PROSHIKA.
She is currently the AssistantGeneral Manager at the Resource
Integration Center, which is anational non-governmental
organization that serves andadvocates for older people in 55
districts covering more than40,000 villages.
(02:33):
Wow Pradushi is also active incontributing her experience and
skills to other organizationsthat champion the human rights
of older people and older women.
Organizations that champion thehuman rights of older people and
older women, such as the Forumfor the Rights of the Elderly
Bangladesh, an apex body of 30organizations, the Women for
Women Research and Study Groupin Bangladesh, the One Billion
(02:56):
Rising, a global movementagainst violence towards women,
and the Global Alliance for theRights of Older People with the
Global Age with Rights campaign.
Ferdushi's voice and passionare heard and seen in national
and international spaces,including the United Nations
(03:18):
Open-Ended Working Group onAging.
Her unwavering conviction inpromoting and protecting the
rights of older people isinspiring Ferdushi.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It's so great for me to get tospeak with you.
I wanted to start, ferdushi, byasking you what is your
motivation?
Why do you do all the work thatyou do to fight for the rights
(03:38):
of older persons?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Because I think that I am working for myself, because
already I am going to be olderin our Bangladesh context.
So I need to work in Bangladeshthrough a platform with the
civil society organizations andother organizations who are
(04:00):
working on older people issue.
Therefore, I would like tomotivate in Bangladesh for even
convention.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That makes a lot of sense and that's so inspiring to
hear.
And I've heard that you startedoff in economics and that was
your area of study.
So how did you kind of go fromeconomics to now working in
human rights and working witholder persons?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Because you know that economics main terms is demands
and supply these are the twowords is key for economics.
So, in my work, when I see thedemands of older people's
microcredit, then I always tryto more supply of microcredit,
(04:47):
because you know that ourcommunity older people always
pressure me please give moreloan, more loan.
So I think that this is apositive thing.
Thus I work in social workabout demands and supply of
economics.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's interesting how all of these different areas and
disciplines come together.
Now I know in the recent reportby the UN independent expert on
the full enjoyment of humanrights by older persons, she
visited Bangladesh right and shediscussed that social
protection and the right tosecurity is an urgent issue, so
(05:28):
maybe could you share what thislooks like for Bangladesh's
older people.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Bangladesh is undergoing a significant
demographic shift Now 15 millionpeople age 60 and above.
By 2050, this number will havemore than doubled to 36 million.
Bangladesh has implemented awide range of social security
programs to protect and care forthe older Bangladeshi.
(05:55):
Yet a vast number of olderBangladeshi either remain
outside of these programs or arestill financially insecure,
despite participation in theprogram.
About 18% of older Bangladeshiare in a pension plan, with 8%
(06:16):
in retired government employeepension and 10% in retired
private sector employee pension.
About 40 percent of olderpeople receive old age allowance
from the government.
Vulnerable older Bangladeshireceive 60 taka 5 USD in monthly
allowance to alleviate povertyand reduce their food, health
(06:40):
and housing vulnerability.
While this social protectioneffort is recognized, older
Bangladeshis say the reality isthat this amount is not adequate
.
I can imagine.
Here is the story of JahanaraBegum, 79 years.
Older woman of Piruspurdistrict of Pirusput district
(07:02):
expressed her views that, thoughthe amount of money is very
minimal and spending formedicine but fill dignity, the
state gives attention among us,I realized and demands at least
2000 BDT taka, always in currentsituation of inflation.
(07:24):
Another older people oldestrecipient, abdur Rahman of
Munchigan district said couldnot maintain basic needs through
this small amount, really feeldiscomfort with this inadequate
money which could not relieve mefrom my hardship.
(07:47):
We need free and qualitytreatment from the government
hospital.
Finally, we say more than 40%Bangladeshis over 65 do not
receive any kind of pension,according to the data Bangladesh
Bureau of Statistics, bbs, andthe Ministry of Finance.
The Universal Pension Schemewas launched on 17 August 2023
(08:12):
and is designed to protect thesocial security of future older
Bangladeshis.
This scheme allows people agedbetween 18 and 50 to put aside
part of their income and receivea monthly pension at the end of
their payment period.
This will benefit future olderpeople, not those who are in
(08:34):
this age group at present.
The ability of the currentpolice allowance program to
reach the poorest and itsadequate financial coverage
limits its social protectioneffectiveness for two days older
people.
Just as we are looking for waysto protect the right to social
security for future olderBangladeshis, we need to find
(08:58):
ways to strengthen theprotection of the right to
social security for two daysolder Bangladeshis.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That is so important and I'm curious then you
mentioned those gaps forBangladesh's older people in
general.
What about the socialprotection situation for older
women specifically?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Despite progress in women's empowerment, due to
social stigma, social norms,Bangladeshi women tend to be
highly vulnerable to poverty andsocial marginalization.
According to the 2022 HouseholdIncome Expenditure Survey data,
Bangladeshi women are lesslikely than men to participate
(09:42):
in the labor force.
The percentage is 42.5% versus81.3%.
They are also significantlymore likely than men to be
unemployed.
This means Bangladeshi womenare more likely than Bangladeshi
men to be financially insecuregoing into their old age.
(10:03):
So older Bangladeshi women canapply for the old age allowance
scheme at age of 62, which isearlier than men at 65.
There is also a monthly cashtransfer scheme to widows and
husbands deserted, destitutewomen to improve their social
(10:23):
economic well-being.
Yet the priority in receivingthis scheme is given to the
oldest of the widow or desertedwife.
In Muslim marriages where a mancan marry up to four wives,
Recipients of other socialprotection schemes do not
qualify to apply for this cashtransfer.
Without the needed socialprotection, older Bangladeshi
(10:47):
women are at risk for medication, food and shelter.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I suppose through your work with the Resource
Integration Center you havewitnessed a lot of those
unfortunate stories, but you'realso able to work in those
situations.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yes, resource Integration Centre promotes the
right to an adequate standard ofliving for older Bangladeshi
women and all older peoplethrough three key focus.
First focus RIC provides olderwomen and men and oldest
allowance beyond the governmentprogram.
Our older people welfareprogram started in 2010 for the
(11:27):
benefit of older people withinRIC's own organization.
Funding for this program comesfrom different sources.
Some of it comes from RIC'smicrocredit program, donations
from organizations andindividuals and contributions
from RIC staff.
Second thing RIC is a pioneerin including older people in the
(11:49):
mainstream of microcredit.
So far, no other organizationis working for this program.
In Bangladesh, ric has providedmicrocredit to more than 9,000
older humans so far.
More than 9,000 older humans sofar.
We run this program in 103unions in 20 subjects of 10
(12:10):
districts.
Two older people involved inmicro-KT the story of Abdul
Qadir Mulla.
65 years old, abdul Qadir Mullaworked in Saudi Arabia for 15
years as a tailor master.
He spent more than 1.7 millionfor his daughter's wedding
(12:30):
arrangement from his earning andat once identified his wife
with liver cancer and spent moremoney for better treatment.
But he could not survive hiswife.
After died of his wife, hislife became very miserable and
resourceless.
In this circumstance, hemanaged a job and worked to
(12:51):
others tailor shop as a clothcutting master, but as an older
person he could not continue hiswork.
He failed to get any job forsurviving, though he tried to
search a job continuously.
Lastly, he became morevulnerable and helpless.
At once he informed from hisneighbor about Rick's
(13:13):
matriculated for older peopleand met with the concerned
person of Rick and discussed hishardship.
At first it was a surprise tohim to hear that he was allowed
to get 40,000 BGT loan from Rick.
Abdul Qadir Mullah startedagain his job with his own shop
and involved with Older PeopleAssociation as an active member
(13:37):
and repaying the loan regularly.
Gradually he revived his lifeand feels very happy.
Another story of how MrsKushnara Begum enjoying mental
peace and lives with dignity incommunity through involving in
microcredit.
75 years older widow.
(13:57):
Mrs Kushnara Begum has no son,only one widow daughter.
After died of her husband herlife became very miserable and
had no land for cultivation, noearning source to meet up their
daily needs.
Nobody took any responsibilityof them In this situation lack
of money.
At last she leaves by begging.
(14:20):
During corona she was facing alot of sufferings and got into
troubles.
To run her livelihood smoothlyshe informed about special loan
is providing from REIT towardsthe vulnerable older people in
the community.
She discussed with older peopleleaders about her hardship and
decided to give support to her.
(14:40):
The older people committeealways make lists from the
community and recommend who areeligible for microcredit as
priority.
They enlisted her name assuggestion of OP leaders.
Kushnera Begum applied for loan,started T-Stall and making up
daily needs through her dailyincome.
At once she became a memberunder Older People Association
(15:04):
and participates in regularmonthly meeting.
She expressed her happiness andthanked me for standing behind
her enjoying mental peace andlives with dignity in community.
Third is we provide programsthat improve health, social
engagement and knowledge ofolder people, such ICAMs, older
(15:26):
People Association meetings andleadership training.
These programs improve thesocial security of older women
and help them regain theirdignity and realize their other
human rights, such as the rightto work and the right to enjoy
the high, sustainable standardof physical and mental health.
They also promote and empowerolder Bangladeshi women to be
(15:49):
contributing members of familyand society and no longer be at
the meanings of society.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Thank you for sharing those stories.
I especially liked that youshared the experience of Abdul
and Kusnara.
I think it shows how thepotential for these types of
microfinancing and otherprograms can help to get older
people engaged and hopefullyimprove the gaps that they've
been facing to human rights aswell.
So I was wondering was thereany challenges at the beginning
(16:18):
establishing this program?
How did that go?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, it is very challenging because you know, no
other MFI organization is notallowed to provide the
microcredit for up to 50 years.
So you know that after 60 yearsor 65 years older people they
can do work involving the incomegenerating activities.
(16:42):
So why this group will beunaddressed under the finance
financiated inbound.
Some organizations inBangladesh are very eager to
provide the micro credit butthey think that older people
could not repay the money due totheir health.
This is the challenge.
But we break the wall from ourorganization and we started our
(17:06):
piloting program in 1991.
We have started thismicrocredit for the older people
and gradually we receive a goodoutcome from involvement of
older people in microcredit.
Therefore, I think we can dowork with older people in
microcredit, though it ischallenging.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Right, yeah, and I guess other NGOs have started to
do this now as well.
Then, once you were successful,ngos can do a lot and they can
work with older people, but I'mwondering for Bangladesh in
general, what kinds of policiesare there for older persons?
On the right to social security, you talked a bit about the old
age security and how somepeople are eligible for pensions
(17:49):
but some aren't.
So what do you think is workingwell with these policies and
what do you think continues tobe a work in progress?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
There are numerous policies and acts for older
people.
We have a national policy forolder people.
It was developed based on theMadrid International Plan of
Action on Aging Framework andwith the input of non-government
organizations like the ResourceIntegration Center.
It is very comprehensive andcovers all key dimensions of
(18:21):
aging and development.
I was proud to have beenactively involved in my role at
Resource Integration Center.
We recommended some minimumstandards for older Bangladeshi
to realize their rights.
For older Bangladeshi torealize their rights, for
example, on social protection,we recommended to increase
oldest allowance at least 2,000BDT.
(18:42):
Reserved seat in transport.
Older people-friendly,inclusive health support care
through universal healthcoverage.
Movement soft loan forincome-generating address
Unfortunately, theimplementation of the national
policy for older persons hasbeen limited since its adoption
(19:03):
in 2013.
For example, in 2015, the ideaof a citizen's pension for
people who are age 60 and abovewas raised in the National
Social Security Strategy of thePlanning Ministry.
It also proposed theintroduction of a National
Social Insurance Scheme withcontributions from the private
(19:26):
sector to support older people.
As I shared earlier, theUniversal Pension Scheme that
was launched on 13 August 2003did not bring additional social
coverage to older people todaybecause of the age qualification
cap of 50.
Another example is theintroduction of the 2013
(19:49):
Maintainance of Parent Act.
In this act, the child orchildren have mandatory
responsibilities to supporttheir parents' livelihoods,
medical treatments and otherbasic necessities.
It is a punishable offense ifthese responsibilities are not
carried out.
While the intention is good,this law has been criticized
(20:11):
from both social protection andhuman rights points of view.
The need for better socialprotection measures for older
people, especially those withoutsons and daughters, is urgent.
How are older people withoutsons and daughters socially
protected when they are unableto access the oldest security
(20:34):
coverage or when the oldestsecurity coverage does not
adequately meet their day-to-dayneeds?
How realistic is it to havesons and daughters who are
already in poverty, to assumeresponsibilities outlined in the
Act.
This is why I, resourceIntegration Centre and other
(20:55):
Bangladesh non-governmentorganisations advocate for an
even convention on the rights ofolder people.
Such an even convention is aninternational human rights
treaty that will provide humanrights standards to ensure all
older people worldwide enjoyhuman rights.
The human rights standards willaddress all aspects of an older
(21:20):
person's life, such as theright to social security or
health that I mentioned earlier.
While human rights standardsexist in these two areas today,
they don't specifically addressthe needs of older age.
For example, the right tosocial security is lacking in
mainly developing and low-incomecountries today for different
(21:44):
socioeconomic reasons.
Such human rights standardswill ensure older people's
protection and receive thesupport needed.
In addition, an even conventionis binding once ratified in a
country.
Their implementation progresswill need to be reported to.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm wondering what do you?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
see as some of the obstacles that are in the way of
having a UN convention takeplace so far.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Actually every state are not interested for UN
convention, because when thestate will be signed, you know
they're signed and when the UNconvention will be ratified,
every state will be.
Then applies to do somethingfor older people.
But their views is that we'reworking for children.
(22:45):
They are the future vision.
We will work for the adulthuman.
They are the future development.
Why would we spend for theolder people?
They have no ability.
But I think that older peopleare a very, very important part
for development.
There is no defaulter in ourmicrocredit.
(23:06):
It is a very, very positiveresult for our program.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yes, this shows the importance of these types of
programs, and people might havethought that the microcredit
programs wouldn't work and thatthere would be defaulting, but
this is a great example ofstereotypes not being true.
You spoke about the importanceof engaging older persons.
So, while we are workingtowards a UN convention and
(23:31):
thank you for sharing theimportance of that UN convention
what can we do to promote andprotect the rights of older
people?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Our practice is to take a human rights-based
approach.
The human rights-based approachhas five key principles.
The first is participation,which means everyone is entitled
to active participation in thedecision-making process that
affects the enjoyment of theirhuman rights.
(24:01):
In our microcredit program,older people have an active role
and voice on how much they wishto borrow and the type of
ventures they use the borrowedfunds for.
We may provide them advicebased on successes and learnings
from the past, but we do notmake the decisions on behalf of
(24:25):
the older people.
We do not make the decisions onbehalf of the older people.
Second thing is accountability,which means our organization as
duty bearers are heldaccountable.
If we fall to fulfill ourobligations towards the older
persons, who are the rightsholders, and that there are
remedies in place, should remain, human rights be braced.
(24:48):
Our microcredit programs aremonitored by RIC's own staff and
if there is a breach in servicedelivery, the older borrower
getting facilities through RICto overcome their crucial
situation in their later life.
The third is non-discriminationin their later life.
(25:10):
The third is non-discrimination.
Our microcredit program doesnot discriminate based on age,
gender, religion, etc.
Every older person is evaluatedagainst the same criteria when
they apply to the program.
The fourth is empowerment,which refers to the need for
livelihoods to understand theirrights and participate in the
development of policies thataffect their lives.
Our microcredit program, likeother organizations, seeks the
(25:36):
input of older people inBangladesh in its development
and delivery approach.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, and I guess for those themes of empowerment and
non-discrimination andaccountability are all things
that can only be enhanced with aUN convention in place and kind
of change the attitudes at alllevels.
You mentioned that you andother NGOs work together to kind
of advocate for older people'srights and the UN convention,
(26:05):
like we met at the Open-EndedWorking Group.
Could you maybe share whatother kinds of activities you
have done in the past?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
We focus on four types of activities.
First is train older people sothat they can claim their rights
and raise their voices fortheir rights and the UN
Convention.
Ric organized consultationswith community older people
leaders on EVEN OEWG agendaunder Garop campaign in
(26:35):
Bangladesh in 2019.
At first, oriented the RICstaffs and volunteers on EVEN
open-ended working group andprovided training on
interviewing instrument,questionnaire and online entry
of interviewed data.
Rick organized consultationswith the older people leaders of
(26:57):
Older People Association.
In fact, they are thegrassroots level human rights
defenders of older people.
Human rights defenders of olderpeople.
The aim of the consultationswas to get comments and opinions
from representative groups ofolder people in Bangladesh on
the agendas of UN Open andWorking Group Asian Station and
(27:19):
Meeting.
Second, create public awarenessand build momentum through the
AIDS with Rights campaign andlocal coalitions.
As a part of the Age withRights campaign, ric mobilized
the community-level older peopleof remote areas and RIC
celebrated this Age with Rightsglobal campaign at central and
(27:43):
community level since 2022.
Central and community levelsince 2022.
There are 31 civil societyorganizations under Forum for
the Rights of the ElderlyBangladesh platform.
We are working together andkeep bold steps for advocacy on
older people issue.
Representatives of theseorganizations join the human
(28:03):
change signature campaign andmulti-Stakeholder Meeting.
More than 10 nationalnewspapers, many local
newspapers, online newspapersand seven national TV channels
have covered the rallymulti-stakeholder making event.
Through these media coverage,more than 600 people have
(28:25):
learned the UN conventionprocess for older people human
rights.
The signature campaign was veryeffective in demonstrating the
commitment and solidarity todocument the public supports for
the convention.
Developed campaign material,leaflet, placard, face to banner
with caption of AIDS withRights, which are the message
(28:48):
for demanding even convention onhuman rights for older people.
Our government representativesto uphold the human rights of
older people through policy law,apply a human rights-based
approach in its work and supportthe even convention.
In order to create awareness onUN Convention for Older People
(29:11):
Human Rights, ric activelyinitiated to focus on it and
deliver the message towards themass people and government
representatives.
Mr Halal Uddin Bhuya,additional Director, department
of Social Services, ministry ofSocial Welfare, said in a
consultation the government ofBangladesh, civil society,
(29:34):
individual private sector areall placing to improve the human
rights situation of the olderpeople.
After the meeting, we will keepin touch with each other and
closely watch older people'shuman rights violations and we
will work together to prevent it.
Those are all greataccomplishments.
(29:55):
Yes, at a regional andinternational level, to
extending the global collectivevoice that advocates for human
rights of older people and theUN Convention.
As a member of GARO, attendedthe OEW GEA 14th session in 2024
(30:20):
and 12th session in 2022,presented oral statement.
The statement reflected theinterventions on the human
rights of older people inBangladesh and worldwide for the
UN Convention and advocating topromote their rights and
supporting championing the humanrights standards from a UN
(30:44):
Convention that will protecttheir rights till their last
breath.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Paul, thank you so much for sharing about your work
, sharing about the motivationbehind your work.
If you'd like to please shareany final thoughts that you have
about the right to socialsecurity and the human rights of
older persons, we shouldcontinue to raise our global
voices for UN Convention ofOlder People's Human Rights.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
UN Convention will be placed with the legal force to
ensure the dignity and integrityof all older people.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That's great.
Thank you so much, Pradushi.
Thank you for those finalthoughts.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Really, I'm so happy to see you again.
And hopefully later we willmeet again, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Thank you so much.
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:25):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions andadvocates will share with us why
they care about the rights ofolder persons and what they are
doing to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the
Rights of Older Persons intobeing for you and for me, no
(00:46):
matter how old we are.
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom, and sign
the global petition for the UNConvention on the Rights of
(01:09):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Gowenis.
Thank you for joining us, enjoythis special initiative, and my
thanks to Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble for
(01:31):
bringing this opportunity to usto hear from these important
guests who promote the humanrights and the dignity of older
persons the world over.
In this episode, I have thepleasure of introducing to you
our guest interviewer, faithYoung, interviewing Ferdushi
Begum.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome to the podcast I have here with me
Ferdushi Begum who has kindly?
offered to share her story andinsights.
Ferdushi has been championingand serving older people in her
country of Bangladesh for over24 years.
In her early career, fidushiwas a photo librarian for the
Dirk Photography Institute and aresearch associate at the
(02:12):
Bangladesh Development ResearchCenter and the Impact Monitoring
Evaluation Cell of PROSHIKA.
She is currently the AssistantGeneral Manager at the Resource
Integration Center, which is anational non-governmental
organization that serves andadvocates for older people in 55
districts covering more than40,000 villages.
(02:33):
Wow Pradushi is also active incontributing her experience and
skills to other organizationsthat champion the human rights
of older people and older women.
Organizations that champion thehuman rights of older people and
older women, such as the Forumfor the Rights of the Elderly
Bangladesh, an apex body of 30organizations, the Women for
Women Research and Study Groupin Bangladesh, the One Billion
(02:56):
Rising, a global movementagainst violence towards women,
and the Global Alliance for theRights of Older People with the
Global Age with Rights campaign.
Ferdushi's voice and passionare heard and seen in national
and international spaces,including the United Nations
(03:18):
Open-Ended Working Group onAging.
Her unwavering conviction inpromoting and protecting the
rights of older people isinspiring Ferdushi.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It's so great for me to get tospeak with you.
I wanted to start, ferdushi, byasking you what is your
motivation?
Why do you do all the work thatyou do to fight for the rights
(03:38):
of older persons?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Because I think that I am working for myself, because
already I am going to be olderin our Bangladesh context.
So I need to work in Bangladeshthrough a platform with the
civil society organizations andother organizations who are
(04:00):
working on older people issue.
Therefore, I would like tomotivate in Bangladesh for even
convention.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That makes a lot of sense and that's so inspiring to
hear.
And I've heard that you startedoff in economics and that was
your area of study.
So how did you kind of go fromeconomics to now working in
human rights and working witholder persons?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Because you know that economics main terms is demands
and supply these are the twowords is key for economics.
So, in my work, when I see thedemands of older people's
microcredit, then I always tryto more supply of microcredit,
(04:47):
because you know that ourcommunity older people always
pressure me please give moreloan, more loan.
So I think that this is apositive thing.
Thus I work in social workabout demands and supply of
economics.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's interesting how all of these different areas and
disciplines come together.
Now I know in the recent reportby the UN independent expert on
the full enjoyment of humanrights by older persons, she
visited Bangladesh right and shediscussed that social
protection and the right tosecurity is an urgent issue, so
(05:28):
maybe could you share what thislooks like for Bangladesh's
older people.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Bangladesh is undergoing a significant
demographic shift Now 15 millionpeople age 60 and above.
By 2050, this number will havemore than doubled to 36 million.
Bangladesh has implemented awide range of social security
programs to protect and care forthe older Bangladeshi.
(05:55):
Yet a vast number of olderBangladeshi either remain
outside of these programs or arestill financially insecure,
despite participation in theprogram.
About 18% of older Bangladeshiare in a pension plan, with 8%
(06:16):
in retired government employeepension and 10% in retired
private sector employee pension.
About 40 percent of olderpeople receive old age allowance
from the government.
Vulnerable older Bangladeshireceive 60 taka 5 USD in monthly
allowance to alleviate povertyand reduce their food, health
(06:40):
and housing vulnerability.
While this social protectioneffort is recognized, older
Bangladeshis say the reality isthat this amount is not adequate
.
I can imagine.
Here is the story of JahanaraBegum, 79 years.
Older woman of Piruspurdistrict of Pirusput district
(07:02):
expressed her views that, thoughthe amount of money is very
minimal and spending formedicine but fill dignity, the
state gives attention among us,I realized and demands at least
2000 BDT taka, always in currentsituation of inflation.
(07:24):
Another older people oldestrecipient, abdur Rahman of
Munchigan district said couldnot maintain basic needs through
this small amount, really feeldiscomfort with this inadequate
money which could not relieve mefrom my hardship.
(07:47):
We need free and qualitytreatment from the government
hospital.
Finally, we say more than 40%Bangladeshis over 65 do not
receive any kind of pension,according to the data Bangladesh
Bureau of Statistics, bbs, andthe Ministry of Finance.
The Universal Pension Schemewas launched on 17 August 2023
(08:12):
and is designed to protect thesocial security of future older
Bangladeshis.
This scheme allows people agedbetween 18 and 50 to put aside
part of their income and receivea monthly pension at the end of
their payment period.
This will benefit future olderpeople, not those who are in
(08:34):
this age group at present.
The ability of the currentpolice allowance program to
reach the poorest and itsadequate financial coverage
limits its social protectioneffectiveness for two days older
people.
Just as we are looking for waysto protect the right to social
security for future olderBangladeshis, we need to find
(08:58):
ways to strengthen theprotection of the right to
social security for two daysolder Bangladeshis.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That is so important and I'm curious then you
mentioned those gaps forBangladesh's older people in
general.
What about the socialprotection situation for older
women specifically?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Despite progress in women's empowerment, due to
social stigma, social norms,Bangladeshi women tend to be
highly vulnerable to poverty andsocial marginalization.
According to the 2022 HouseholdIncome Expenditure Survey data,
Bangladeshi women are lesslikely than men to participate
(09:42):
in the labor force.
The percentage is 42.5% versus81.3%.
They are also significantlymore likely than men to be
unemployed.
This means Bangladeshi womenare more likely than Bangladeshi
men to be financially insecuregoing into their old age.
(10:03):
So older Bangladeshi women canapply for the old age allowance
scheme at age of 62, which isearlier than men at 65.
There is also a monthly cashtransfer scheme to widows and
husbands deserted, destitutewomen to improve their social
(10:23):
economic well-being.
Yet the priority in receivingthis scheme is given to the
oldest of the widow or desertedwife.
In Muslim marriages where a mancan marry up to four wives,
Recipients of other socialprotection schemes do not
qualify to apply for this cashtransfer.
Without the needed socialprotection, older Bangladeshi
(10:47):
women are at risk for medication, food and shelter.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I suppose through your work with the Resource
Integration Center you havewitnessed a lot of those
unfortunate stories, but you'realso able to work in those
situations.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yes, resource Integration Centre promotes the
right to an adequate standard ofliving for older Bangladeshi
women and all older peoplethrough three key focus.
First focus RIC provides olderwomen and men and oldest
allowance beyond the governmentprogram.
Our older people welfareprogram started in 2010 for the
(11:27):
benefit of older people withinRIC's own organization.
Funding for this program comesfrom different sources.
Some of it comes from RIC'smicrocredit program, donations
from organizations andindividuals and contributions
from RIC staff.
Second thing RIC is a pioneerin including older people in the
(11:49):
mainstream of microcredit.
So far, no other organizationis working for this program.
In Bangladesh, ric has providedmicrocredit to more than 9,000
older humans so far.
More than 9,000 older humans sofar.
We run this program in 103unions in 20 subjects of 10
(12:10):
districts.
Two older people involved inmicro-KT the story of Abdul
Qadir Mulla.
65 years old, abdul Qadir Mullaworked in Saudi Arabia for 15
years as a tailor master.
He spent more than 1.7 millionfor his daughter's wedding
(12:30):
arrangement from his earning andat once identified his wife
with liver cancer and spent moremoney for better treatment.
But he could not survive hiswife.
After died of his wife, hislife became very miserable and
resourceless.
In this circumstance, hemanaged a job and worked to
(12:51):
others tailor shop as a clothcutting master, but as an older
person he could not continue hiswork.
He failed to get any job forsurviving, though he tried to
search a job continuously.
Lastly, he became morevulnerable and helpless.
At once he informed from hisneighbor about Rick's
(13:13):
matriculated for older peopleand met with the concerned
person of Rick and discussed hishardship.
At first it was a surprise tohim to hear that he was allowed
to get 40,000 BGT loan from Rick.
Abdul Qadir Mullah startedagain his job with his own shop
and involved with Older PeopleAssociation as an active member
(13:37):
and repaying the loan regularly.
Gradually he revived his lifeand feels very happy.
Another story of how MrsKushnara Begum enjoying mental
peace and lives with dignity incommunity through involving in
microcredit.
75 years older widow.
(13:57):
Mrs Kushnara Begum has no son,only one widow daughter.
After died of her husband herlife became very miserable and
had no land for cultivation, noearning source to meet up their
daily needs.
Nobody took any responsibilityof them In this situation lack
of money.
At last she leaves by begging.
(14:20):
During corona she was facing alot of sufferings and got into
troubles.
To run her livelihood smoothlyshe informed about special loan
is providing from REIT towardsthe vulnerable older people in
the community.
She discussed with older peopleleaders about her hardship and
decided to give support to her.
(14:40):
The older people committeealways make lists from the
community and recommend who areeligible for microcredit as
priority.
They enlisted her name assuggestion of OP leaders.
Kushnera Begum applied for loan,started T-Stall and making up
daily needs through her dailyincome.
At once she became a memberunder Older People Association
(15:04):
and participates in regularmonthly meeting.
She expressed her happiness andthanked me for standing behind
her enjoying mental peace andlives with dignity in community.
Third is we provide programsthat improve health, social
engagement and knowledge ofolder people, such ICAMs, older
(15:26):
People Association meetings andleadership training.
These programs improve thesocial security of older women
and help them regain theirdignity and realize their other
human rights, such as the rightto work and the right to enjoy
the high, sustainable standardof physical and mental health.
They also promote and empowerolder Bangladeshi women to be
(15:49):
contributing members of familyand society and no longer be at
the meanings of society.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Thank you for sharing those stories.
I especially liked that youshared the experience of Abdul
and Kusnara.
I think it shows how thepotential for these types of
microfinancing and otherprograms can help to get older
people engaged and hopefullyimprove the gaps that they've
been facing to human rights aswell.
So I was wondering was thereany challenges at the beginning
(16:18):
establishing this program?
How did that go?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, it is very challenging because you know, no
other MFI organization is notallowed to provide the
microcredit for up to 50 years.
So you know that after 60 yearsor 65 years older people they
can do work involving the incomegenerating activities.
(16:42):
So why this group will beunaddressed under the finance
financiated inbound.
Some organizations inBangladesh are very eager to
provide the micro credit butthey think that older people
could not repay the money due totheir health.
This is the challenge.
But we break the wall from ourorganization and we started our
(17:06):
piloting program in 1991.
We have started thismicrocredit for the older people
and gradually we receive a goodoutcome from involvement of
older people in microcredit.
Therefore, I think we can dowork with older people in
microcredit, though it ischallenging.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Right, yeah, and I guess other NGOs have started to
do this now as well.
Then, once you were successful,ngos can do a lot and they can
work with older people, but I'mwondering for Bangladesh in
general, what kinds of policiesare there for older persons?
On the right to social security, you talked a bit about the old
age security and how somepeople are eligible for pensions
(17:49):
but some aren't.
So what do you think is workingwell with these policies and
what do you think continues tobe a work in progress?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
There are numerous policies and acts for older
people.
We have a national policy forolder people.
It was developed based on theMadrid International Plan of
Action on Aging Framework andwith the input of non-government
organizations like the ResourceIntegration Center.
It is very comprehensive andcovers all key dimensions of
(18:21):
aging and development.
I was proud to have beenactively involved in my role at
Resource Integration Center.
We recommended some minimumstandards for older Bangladeshi
to realize their rights.
For older Bangladeshi torealize their rights, for
example, on social protection,we recommended to increase
oldest allowance at least 2,000BDT.
(18:42):
Reserved seat in transport.
Older people-friendly,inclusive health support care
through universal healthcoverage.
Movement soft loan forincome-generating address
Unfortunately, theimplementation of the national
policy for older persons hasbeen limited since its adoption
(19:03):
in 2013.
For example, in 2015, the ideaof a citizen's pension for
people who are age 60 and abovewas raised in the National
Social Security Strategy of thePlanning Ministry.
It also proposed theintroduction of a National
Social Insurance Scheme withcontributions from the private
(19:26):
sector to support older people.
As I shared earlier, theUniversal Pension Scheme that
was launched on 13 August 2003did not bring additional social
coverage to older people todaybecause of the age qualification
cap of 50.
Another example is theintroduction of the 2013
(19:49):
Maintainance of Parent Act.
In this act, the child orchildren have mandatory
responsibilities to supporttheir parents' livelihoods,
medical treatments and otherbasic necessities.
It is a punishable offense ifthese responsibilities are not
carried out.
While the intention is good,this law has been criticized
(20:11):
from both social protection andhuman rights points of view.
The need for better socialprotection measures for older
people, especially those withoutsons and daughters, is urgent.
How are older people withoutsons and daughters socially
protected when they are unableto access the oldest security
(20:34):
coverage or when the oldestsecurity coverage does not
adequately meet their day-to-dayneeds?
How realistic is it to havesons and daughters who are
already in poverty, to assumeresponsibilities outlined in the
Act.
This is why I, resourceIntegration Centre and other
(20:55):
Bangladesh non-governmentorganisations advocate for an
even convention on the rights ofolder people.
Such an even convention is aninternational human rights
treaty that will provide humanrights standards to ensure all
older people worldwide enjoyhuman rights.
The human rights standards willaddress all aspects of an older
(21:20):
person's life, such as theright to social security or
health that I mentioned earlier.
While human rights standardsexist in these two areas today,
they don't specifically addressthe needs of older age.
For example, the right tosocial security is lacking in
mainly developing and low-incomecountries today for different
(21:44):
socioeconomic reasons.
Such human rights standardswill ensure older people's
protection and receive thesupport needed.
In addition, an even conventionis binding once ratified in a
country.
Their implementation progresswill need to be reported to.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm wondering what do you?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
see as some of the obstacles that are in the way of
having a UN convention takeplace so far.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Actually every state are not interested for UN
convention, because when thestate will be signed, you know
they're signed and when the UNconvention will be ratified,
every state will be.
Then applies to do somethingfor older people.
But their views is that we'reworking for children.
(22:45):
They are the future vision.
We will work for the adulthuman.
They are the future development.
Why would we spend for theolder people?
They have no ability.
But I think that older peopleare a very, very important part
for development.
There is no defaulter in ourmicrocredit.
(23:06):
It is a very, very positiveresult for our program.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yes, this shows the importance of these types of
programs, and people might havethought that the microcredit
programs wouldn't work and thatthere would be defaulting, but
this is a great example ofstereotypes not being true.
You spoke about the importanceof engaging older persons.
So, while we are workingtowards a UN convention and
(23:31):
thank you for sharing theimportance of that UN convention
what can we do to promote andprotect the rights of older
people?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Our practice is to take a human rights-based
approach.
The human rights-based approachhas five key principles.
The first is participation,which means everyone is entitled
to active participation in thedecision-making process that
affects the enjoyment of theirhuman rights.
(24:01):
In our microcredit program,older people have an active role
and voice on how much they wishto borrow and the type of
ventures they use the borrowedfunds for.
We may provide them advicebased on successes and learnings
from the past, but we do notmake the decisions on behalf of
(24:25):
the older people.
We do not make the decisions onbehalf of the older people.
Second thing is accountability,which means our organization as
duty bearers are heldaccountable.
If we fall to fulfill ourobligations towards the older
persons, who are the rightsholders, and that there are
remedies in place, should remain, human rights be braced.
(24:48):
Our microcredit programs aremonitored by RIC's own staff and
if there is a breach in servicedelivery, the older borrower
getting facilities through RICto overcome their crucial
situation in their later life.
The third is non-discriminationin their later life.
(25:10):
The third is non-discrimination.
Our microcredit program doesnot discriminate based on age,
gender, religion, etc.
Every older person is evaluatedagainst the same criteria when
they apply to the program.
The fourth is empowerment,which refers to the need for
livelihoods to understand theirrights and participate in the
development of policies thataffect their lives.
Our microcredit program, likeother organizations, seeks the
(25:36):
input of older people inBangladesh in its development
and delivery approach.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, and I guess for those themes of empowerment and
non-discrimination andaccountability are all things
that can only be enhanced with aUN convention in place and kind
of change the attitudes at alllevels.
You mentioned that you andother NGOs work together to kind
of advocate for older people'srights and the UN convention,
(26:05):
like we met at the Open-EndedWorking Group.
Could you maybe share whatother kinds of activities you
have done in the past?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
We focus on four types of activities.
First is train older people sothat they can claim their rights
and raise their voices fortheir rights and the UN
Convention.
Ric organized consultationswith community older people
leaders on EVEN OEWG agendaunder Garop campaign in
(26:35):
Bangladesh in 2019.
At first, oriented the RICstaffs and volunteers on EVEN
open-ended working group andprovided training on
interviewing instrument,questionnaire and online entry
of interviewed data.
Rick organized consultationswith the older people leaders of
(26:57):
Older People Association.
In fact, they are thegrassroots level human rights
defenders of older people.
Human rights defenders of olderpeople.
The aim of the consultationswas to get comments and opinions
from representative groups ofolder people in Bangladesh on
the agendas of UN Open andWorking Group Asian Station and
(27:19):
Meeting.
Second, create public awarenessand build momentum through the
AIDS with Rights campaign andlocal coalitions.
As a part of the Age withRights campaign, ric mobilized
the community-level older peopleof remote areas and RIC
celebrated this Age with Rightsglobal campaign at central and
(27:43):
community level since 2022.
Central and community levelsince 2022.
There are 31 civil societyorganizations under Forum for
the Rights of the ElderlyBangladesh platform.
We are working together andkeep bold steps for advocacy on
older people issue.
Representatives of theseorganizations join the human
(28:03):
change signature campaign andmulti-Stakeholder Meeting.
More than 10 nationalnewspapers, many local
newspapers, online newspapersand seven national TV channels
have covered the rallymulti-stakeholder making event.
Through these media coverage,more than 600 people have
(28:25):
learned the UN conventionprocess for older people human
rights.
The signature campaign was veryeffective in demonstrating the
commitment and solidarity todocument the public supports for
the convention.
Developed campaign material,leaflet, placard, face to banner
with caption of AIDS withRights, which are the message
(28:48):
for demanding even convention onhuman rights for older people.
Our government representativesto uphold the human rights of
older people through policy law,apply a human rights-based
approach in its work and supportthe even convention.
In order to create awareness onUN Convention for Older People
(29:11):
Human Rights, ric activelyinitiated to focus on it and
deliver the message towards themass people and government
representatives.
Mr Halal Uddin Bhuya,additional Director, department
of Social Services, ministry ofSocial Welfare, said in a
consultation the government ofBangladesh, civil society,
(29:34):
individual private sector areall placing to improve the human
rights situation of the olderpeople.
After the meeting, we will keepin touch with each other and
closely watch older people'shuman rights violations and we
will work together to prevent it.
Those are all greataccomplishments.
(29:55):
Yes, at a regional andinternational level, to
extending the global collectivevoice that advocates for human
rights of older people and theUN Convention.
As a member of GARO, attendedthe OEW GEA 14th session in 2024
(30:20):
and 12th session in 2022,presented oral statement.
The statement reflected theinterventions on the human
rights of older people inBangladesh and worldwide for the
UN Convention and advocating topromote their rights and
supporting championing the humanrights standards from a UN
(30:44):
Convention that will protecttheir rights till their last
breath.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Paul, thank you so much for sharing about your work
, sharing about the motivationbehind your work.
If you'd like to please shareany final thoughts that you have
about the right to socialsecurity and the human rights of
older persons, we shouldcontinue to raise our global
voices for UN Convention ofOlder People's Human Rights.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
UN Convention will be placed with the legal force to
ensure the dignity and integrityof all older people.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That's great.
Thank you so much, Pradushi.
Thank you for those finalthoughts.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Really, I'm so happy to see you again.
And hopefully later we willmeet again, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Thank you so much.
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