Join me for an intimate conversation with Louise Lamothe, a Swampy Cree grandmother and great-grandmother, whose story is a testament to the healing journeys and deep insights older women and Indigenous ways of knowing and being have to teach us. There is so much to learn from Louise, as she shares stories of her work as a palliative care nurse around the world, integrating Indigenous practices to nurture spaces of compassion and reciprocity. Her profound wisdom on ceremony, connection, and respect for the land offers invaluable lessons on bridging gaps created by historical trauma from colonial harms, and creating the possiblity of healing.
Louise's travels alongside the many lives of those she has touched, whether in palliative care, or the study and practice of Indigenized expressive arts therapy, and the reflections she shares are deeply moving explorations of love, loss, reclamation, and the enduring healing power of older women's wisdom for all of us, now and into the future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host of
Wisdom at Work.
Older Women, elder Women andGrandmothers on the Move, the
podcast that kicks oldstereotypes to the curb.
Come meet these creative,outrageous, authentic,
adventurous, irreverent andpowerful disruptors and
influencers older women andgrandmothers, from the living
(00:21):
room to the courtroom, makingpowerful contributions in every
walk of life.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back.
It's Ilana, and today I havesuch a pleasure with a new
friend and comrade and mentor tome, louise Lamott, who is a
Swampy Cree mother of threechildren, the grandmother of 11,
and the great-grandmother of 19.
She's a member of thePimichigamak Free Nation Treaty
(00:50):
5, cross Lake, manitoba.
She was born and raised inCormorant, manitoba, and Louise
was a palliative care nurse for25 years and facilitates
powerful conversations in groupsettings around grief and loss.
Everything Louise does is fromher Indigenous perspective,
considering the elements, mooncycles, medicine wheel, the four
(01:11):
directions and the wholecosmology of her nation.
She is a gifted and inspiredspeaker who can bring calm and
focus to any group, large orsmall, and I know from personal
experience recently with Louisethat, working in retreat
settings and at conferences withhealing organizations for
Indigenous and non-Indigenouspeople, louise speaks humbly and
(01:33):
directly from the heart andfrom her deep wisdom.
A seeker and lifelong learner,a creative artist and crafter,
louise graduated from the WheatInstitute with a dual diploma in
Indigenized Art Therapy andExpressive Art Therapy, the only
such program known of globally.
Louise, it is such a pleasure tohave you here today to have a
(01:55):
conversation with me on theWisdom and Word podcast.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Thank you, alana.
It's such a pleasure to be hereand to share some time and
space with you, and I want totake this first part to
introduce myself from myterritory.
One of the greatest thingswe've learned in rematriating
our culture, for myself inparticular five generations of
(02:22):
not being connected to myculture and I'm the first in my
family to step into my trueteachings.
Now my mother, my grandmother,my great-grandmother and the two
generations before were totallydisconnected, and we have a way
.
Everything like this isceremony.
So this morning I began my daywith ceremony and I included us
(02:45):
in that space yourself and Ithat our space be caring,
compassionate, supportive, areciprocal kind of space where
we can share our knowledges witheach other as working in these
fields, with grandmothers.
So I held us in ceremony thismorning, grandmothers.
(03:06):
So I held us in ceremony thismorning.
The next part that's importantfor me as a Cree woman is to
introduce myself to you throughmy lineage.
The introduction I want toshare with you was gifted to me
by a wonderful elder in theMi'kmaq territory, where I'm a
guest right now.
This elder has gone ahead tothe spirit world.
Her name was Mildred Millierelder has gone ahead to the
(03:28):
spirit world.
Her name was Mildred Millierand I didn't meet her in person.
I was invited by her son tocome and witness her as she was
sent on her journey and this ishow she introduces herself,
which I do now, and I honorElder Mildred Millier for this.
I honor Elder Mildred Millierfor this.
(03:49):
My name is Louise Lamont.
I am a swampy Cree woman.
I am the daughter of AnnieEvans.
She is the daughter of BellaMoose, who is the daughter of
Bella.
I don't know that thirdgeneration, but I come from a
long line, a matriarchal lineageof Cree women, and that Cree
(04:09):
lineage goes right up the rightside of me.
They witness me at all pointsthat I'm doing and sharing in
this space also, and thatlineage of Cree woman leads
right back to the firstIndigenous woman that stepped
onto Turtle Island and that'swho I am.
On my father's side he was aMétis man, his mother was Cree,
(04:33):
his father was French-Canadianand the Cree lineage is in there
also from the matriarchal side.
So I want to also say that I'ma guest here on the land of the
Mi'kmaq people.
I've done my responsibilities asa swampy Cree woman.
When I arrived here, I visitedthe three chiefs of this land
(04:56):
and I offered them tobacco, Ioffered them the four colors of
my nation and I let them knowwho I am.
I introduce myself and let themknow that I understand that I'm
a guest there and that I willdo no harm.
My intention at all pointswhile I'm on their land is to do
no harm and I stand by thatvery, very strongly.
(05:21):
I wanted to introduce myselfthat way.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I'm so pleased because I felt such a deep
connection to you in many waysthe first time we met not so
long ago, and part of that wasbecause art therapy and
expressive arts therapy is closeto my heart, so I look forward
to speaking to you about that.
But also as someone who had theprivilege of working with
grandmothers, in particular, atthe front lines of the AIDS
(05:48):
pandemic in sub-Saharan Africa,I learned so much about
palliative care, so much aboutthat part of life's journey and
what a critical role, inparticular, elders in our
communities play in thesemoments.
And I thought, louise, that I'dlove to start there, although
(06:08):
where would you like to start?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think I can start with the palliative care.
As an Indigenous woman, mypalliative care career was very
necessary, very important for meto grow into the woman that I
am today.
It was very important and Iwent back to school when I was
(06:33):
30 years old.
I took a licensed practicalnursing program in Manitoba and
at that point during our lastsix months we had to work in
preceptorship areas in thehospitals and one of the things
that was very important to mewas that I could not work with
children Because of my owntraumatic spaces where I grew up
(06:57):
.
I knew that I would havedifficulty there, but I also
didn't want to work where peoplewere dying, specifically in
palliative care.
They did the best that theycould to support me in that
space.
I never did end up working withchildren, but my very first step
into working as a nurse I endedup in a space where it was an
(07:19):
end-of-life situation was theend of life situation and the
space, how it affected me, wasso profound that from that day
that's all I did.
I knew that was my space to goand work.
There was such an energy thatwas happening during that time
(07:40):
that I recognized At that pointI didn't realize I was being
taught by spirit.
I understand that now, 30 yearslater, but at that point I
didn't know, I didn't understand.
I called, very attuned to thatspace, my instinct became very,
very strong and very focused.
(08:09):
And because I didn't know thatwas happening, I was affirmed by
families where they would sharetheir spaces with me and tell
me well, nobody really knewabout that.
For example, you know, when itwas time for me to bring music,
there was no verbal interactionbetween myself and the patient
(08:29):
and I just attuned to the musicthat was important for that
person.
And when the family memberwould come in, they would tell
me that was the music that hewould always listen to.
And I remember a man, itzhakPerlman.
I was really drawn.
I thought what an interestingname, Itzhak Perlman.
(08:51):
I'd never heard of this name, Ididn't know anything about it.
And then I went on a place, thesecondhand store to look for
these cassette tapes to play.
This was in the late 80s.
So I found them and I took themback to him and I put that on
the music.
You could physically see himrelaxing.
(09:13):
You could physically see theminute movements of his body
just settling.
We're there for comfortmeasures and pain control.
So we're always monitoring.
But I could see his body justphysically relaxing.
And then his family memberscame in and they were just
shocked that I had found thismusic.
(09:34):
So I began to learn that therewas a language there.
I felt then and I don't know ifI feel it still today I felt
then that myself, as anIndigenous person, a Cree woman,
I felt like we have that skill,we have that way to attune to
(09:55):
those spaces, and so I reallybecame very vocal in speaking up
towards that space being openfor Indigenous nurses.
And where it's shifted now forme is that there's been a shift,
I feel, in the universe itself.
Things are moving very fast, sothere's more spaces open for us
(10:18):
that we can attune to when wepay attention.
But that's a whole other.
That's a whole other.
I'm going all over this becauseit just leads me when I go
there.
But working as a palliativecare nurse gives back.
It gives back fully with energy, it gives back fully with
knowledge, it gives back fullywith compassion.
(10:41):
There's a gratitude space thatcan actually re-energize you so
much that sometimes you can'tsleep when you've gone through
that space.
And I think there's much morethat can be shared in that space
.
As far as knowledge sharing,oftentimes I was very afraid to
(11:02):
share the things that werehappening with me, what I was
learning.
I was very afraid because Ithought they're not going to
believe anything what I'm saying, so I didn't say very much.
It wasn't until when I began toget my cultural teaching and I
understood from the elders,after going through many fasts
and now sun dancing, that theseare parts that are open, that
(11:26):
are there for us.
They know that, they've alwaysknown that, and there are many
tools for us that we can carryin that.
And you mentioned being inAfrica.
I went there, I think in themid-90s.
I did volunteer work there withthe Grey Nuns.
They wanted to create educationwith the local people because
(11:51):
there was so much death anddying happening.
There were no services there,so they wanted to create some
booklets on how to care forfamily members at home.
That space marked me for mylife in a good way, in a very
good way, because I didn't knowwhen I went there and began
doing some teaching and caring,I didn't know that there were
(12:18):
parts of our world that theycould have the full-on signs of
cancer, that they could have thefull-on signs of cancer, yet
didn't know they had cancer.
I didn't know that I had neverseen where the breast could be
fully sick.
It was fully enveloped withcancer, but the woman didn't
(12:38):
know.
She didn't know.
That's what was there didn'tknow.
That's what was there.
So there's something thathappens when you see another
human being that is so extremelyvulnerable.
It calls you to just stop andask permission in that space.
What can I share here?
Should I tell her that this iscancer, or should I not?
(13:02):
Which one is going to do moredamage at this stage of her life
right now?
How do I work in this space?
It allowed me to learn so muchabout myself, or I can just
depend on the wisdom that wouldcome through.
And at that particular point Icould see just by her
(13:22):
respirations, her breathing,just by her color, that it was
not very long.
So I chose not to speak aboutcancer, because I understood
that just the word cancer is soharming, it's so filled with
fear.
So I chose not to say that andI chose to show the family how
(13:45):
to help to cleanse her.
And it was left until laterthat the nun spoke to the family
so that they could be moreaware, going forward for their
own family.
So many situations like that,alana, I believe they happen to
us as human beings in so manyplaces, and the world is going
(14:07):
so fast right now we miss someof it, where we just don't stop
long enough to question what ismy responsibility here.
Respect, I was very blessed tohave been able to work in that
field for 26 years.
So many stories, so manybeautiful people, so many
(14:34):
cultures.
The tenet of that care Iremember so clearly being told
when you walk into somebody'shome, you leave your beliefs at
the door and you let that personlead you.
I benefited so much from thatwisdom.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Remarkable to think that at the very beginning you
had such clarity that that wasan area that you did not want to
work in.
Yes, you mentioned that there'sso much knowledge that can come
to you and there's so much thatyou get back through this
practice and because you workedin so many different places with
different peoples, there's somany different beliefs and
(15:12):
rituals around death.
There's so many different waysof going on that journey.
There's so many different waysthat our lives come to an end.
Was there something that youlearned that was sort of
universal?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
That's a beautiful, beautiful question, Alana.
And yes, when I startedpalliative care, this was in the
late 80s and what was happeningin Canada and Ontario
specifically was palliative carebecame this huge kind of.
It was the focus within all thesystems that be.
(15:52):
So it exploded into this spacewhere the person that was
beginning their journey you saydying, I say going ahead.
That's what it means in mylanguage.
When somebody was getting readyfor that particular journey,
they had a personal choice theycould do that in the hospital or
(16:14):
they could do it at home.
And Ottawa just opened up intothis space where so many people
were choosing to do that at home.
So, as a licensed practicalnurse, our scope of practice
expanded so greatly, likebecause we became case managers.
We'd go into the home and setup the home, counsel the family
(16:39):
and then do all the comfortmeasures and pain control, and
we worked hand in hand with apalliative doctor.
So we were exposed to thiswhole space of nursing.
That was just incredible, foryou know, setting up pain pumps,
bringing in oxygen, sittingwith the family, navigating the
(17:01):
difficulties that can happenduring that time with families
it was a gold mine of learningfor us.
So what happened for me in thatspace.
It took probably about 10 yearsfor me to begin to see something
that was happening that wasreally special for me.
(17:23):
What happened was I foundmyself in one particular place
became very significant.
It would be a space where theperson that was getting ready to
go ahead, they would find aspace when either the spouse or
the family were fast asleep andthey would find that time where
(17:46):
they could let go of things thatthey needed to let go and
things that they needed to shareand things that they wanted to
talk about.
In these homes, one of ourfirst duties was setting up a
diary, a notebook, acommunication book for the whole
family.
You know what we were doing,but I instinctively knew that
(18:09):
these things were not for thatbook, they were not to share.
This was just somebody that wasletting go of stuff that they'd
been carrying for years andyears, and some of them were
very difficult.
So when things get difficultagain, you're in a space of
(18:31):
putting your hands up okay, howdo I navigate this space and be
the best I can be for thisperson so that they can let that
go?
And so many beautiful responsescame through on how I could do
that and what I learned fromthat was there were men,
(18:54):
specifically, that weren't ableto do that, and the reason I
knew that they were carryingthings because they were still
lashing out.
They were lashing out at familymembers, lashing out at me.
You know, they weren't ready togo.
They never got to that place ofacceptance and what would
(19:15):
happen in those spaces is thatthey would really struggle and I
would know when that washappening that we were going to
have breathing issues, we weregoing to have pain issues.
So I knew ahead of time what Ihad to do to prepare for that,
what I had to be ready for.
(19:36):
But there's these other onesthat would unload and give away
all these things, would eitherjust fall asleep or just be as
lucid as they could possibly beand just gently leave.
So there were these two thingsthat I began to be aware of and
I began to learn about and atthe end of it, I came to the
(19:58):
conclusion that, as I'm headingtowards that myself, I won't
bring regrets there and I won'tbring secrets there.
I can do that now.
I can take those things and Idon't have to be at my deathbed
and, you know, be trying tonavigate that space.
(20:19):
I can do it very well now.
I can do that through myceremony, I can do that in my
lodges, I can even do it justwriting and I can give that away
.
I don't have to carry thosethings.
So that's one of the thingsthat I share, that within my own
communities, and I had thebeautiful experience of guiding
(20:44):
my mother, witnessing my motherand doing the seven-day ceremony
with her and guarding thatspace, and she just fell asleep.
That kind of teaching is doableeverywhere.
So the more we share thatknowledge, the more we can have
these good deaths that are oftenspoken about.
(21:06):
It's quite important.
That's so potent.
Thank you for asking me that.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Thank you for that extraordinary piece of knowledge
.
It's hard to move from that.
There's so much to think aboutFor me when I hear that there's
such a connection to art therapyand expressive art therapy.
In a way it's elite, but in away it makes so much sense
because it's all about thesenses and the different ways of
(21:34):
experiencing and workingthrough our lives.
So to me, when you talk aboutregrets and secrets and all of
the deep things that we carrywithin, the fact that you
combined palliative care and allof the knowledge and learning,
what brought you to this space?
How did that happen?
What brought you to this space?
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, it came by so wonderfully when we think of our
transitional spaces in ourlives as women.
When I finished nursing myhusband and I, when the first
year we got married, we made apromise to each other.
He said this is our plan goingahead, you and I.
(22:18):
And we stuck to that plan.
And he said now, what do youwant?
He said I know what I'm goingto do.
What do you want?
I said, well, I'm willing tocontribute to your plan to the
best of my ability.
But when it comes to 60, Idon't want to work anymore.
I want to have those 20 yearswhere I'll be still able to run
(22:40):
and jump, that I want them to bemine.
So we agreed on that.
Well, he forgot about it.
But when I turned 60, I calledhim one night from work and I
let him know.
I said you know what?
I'm 60 now, I'm going to finishworking.
And he's like oh, oh, yeah,okay, you know, and that was it.
(23:05):
But you know what happened?
I grieved my work.
I went into deep grief becauseI stopped so abruptly.
But I went into a grievingspace and I had to find my way
out of that space.
I was there for about a yearand a half.
It was a struggle.
(23:26):
So then I decided well, I don'tthink I'm ready for this, to
just not be doing a lot ofthings.
So I began to try differentthings traveling a bit, getting
involved in the community but Istill wasn't feeling that
passion that I had been so usedto for so many years.
And then, serendipitously, itjust opened up one evening, I
(23:51):
guess when I was ready, Somebodypassed me a book in a crowd we
were doing an art show.
I opened the first page and ittalked about Wheat Institute in
Manitoba.
Oh my, that's amazing.
It was incredible.
So I came home that night and Igoogled that place.
I phoned and I spoke to Darcy,phoned and I spoke to Darcy.
(24:20):
She owns that whole space andjust like that I was starting
class in three days.
She arranged everything aroundme going and three and a half
years later I graduated.
And it was a passion.
I began at 64 and I graduatedthree and a half years later.
I was 64 and I graduated threeand a half years later.
But what is special about art,therapy, education and training?
(24:41):
It is like being three and ahalf years in therapy.
That's what it is.
It's all about experiencing.
Then, when we went into theindigenized art therapy, where
what it was, it was art therapy,and we were obliged to shift
the idea to how do we indigenizethis?
What would work for our people?
(25:03):
How would they receive this?
How could they come into thisspace?
How do we make it safe?
And what I learned sowonderfully in that space is I
had already had the teachingswithin my cultural lodges, but
what we've been learning in ourlodges for all this time is that
(25:24):
we have everything in ourbodies to heal ourselves.
We just have to learn tocommunicate and be with our body
.
And I'll give you an example Ifast, spring and fall, and then
I go and dance in Manitoba.
So when we go fasting, we fastfor four days.
(25:45):
We go in on a Wednesday and wedon't eat or drink water for
four days.
We come out on Sunday, we'resinging, we're praying.
Out on Sunday, we're singing,we're praying.
We go into sweat lodges and wego into spaces that are very
spiritual for us.
And I didn't struggle the firstyear, but the second year I
struggled with hunger.
(26:06):
What happened?
I was so hungry, my stomach wasmaking noises and I went and I
sat down to do some praying andthen I realized I must talk to
my body, and all I did was tellmy body we're okay, we're not
starving, we're not in danger,we're doing this for a good
(26:28):
reason and I need your help toget me through this.
We're going to eat, we don'thave to worry about that, and,
alana, it was like magic All thehunger stopped.
So what that told me was thateverything is in this body.
Everything I need to healmyself, to be a good person,
(26:50):
everything is there and it'slike that for everybody and it's
like that for everybody.
So when I applied that samespace to my training in art
therapy, what happened with meis I began to bring up all these
things because I come from avery difficult upbringing, so
(27:10):
all that stuff began to arrive.
I was very fortunate to be inthose spaces where I could learn
how to be, in those spaceswhere I could learn how to work
with those spaces.
And now, going out into theworld with art therapy, I
already know I'm not the kind ofart therapist that's going to
go into an office and, you know,do three or four people, one
(27:34):
after the other, and that's nota space for me.
I need to be in the space ofheart, connected to the mind,
connected to my voice.
I need to be in that space.
So there's a calling right now.
We need to step in stronglyinto our Indigenous spaces.
So where I can do the best thatI can is with groups of people.
(27:57):
So that's the space I've chosen.
So I've begun to createdifferent offerings that I can
go out into the community.
They're received very well andI come away from them feeling
very well that I've accomplishedwhat needed to be accomplished,
and yet with all that passionand that goodness and happiness
(28:20):
again.
So here I am in that space.
I haven't yet married it to anyof my palliative care training.
I'm doing some work with theCongress of Aboriginal Peoples
and they have a new mandate atthis time where they're focusing
on palliative care for theIndigenous communities, because
we don't have very much of thatright now.
(28:42):
And I think art might play itsway into that also because there
are many art practices that wecan use within palliative care.
Some of it, for example, iscalled third-hand art, where I'm
the artist and it goes with ourconversation.
There are so many possibilities.
(29:03):
I'm just letting it flow,letting it flow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Beautiful.
I love it because you can seethat there's so much creative
energy and creative juicesflowing.
You can hear it when you'respeaking just in terms of the
possibilities, and now you're agrandmother and a
great-grandmother, so there areechoes and circles of children
and childhood all around you inthese stories, and you've talked
(29:30):
a couple of times about havingchallenging experiences as a
child.
And then all of this healing.
And I wonder, as a grandmother,as a great-grandmother, someone
who works on healing, to me Ifeel like you're holding hands
with so many pasts and so manypresent and so many futures yet
(29:50):
unrealized, you know.
So I wonder, where does thatsit with you?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
First of all I want to say Elena, that word echoes.
I really like that, the echoesaround us sharing our stories.
That has a real beauty to it.
It beckons me to work with thatword.
But I think in one wordresponsibility.
I have to say responsibility.
(30:18):
One of the gentle ways that theelders have trained me is I
don't need to be immersed in thespaces where I was raised.
I didn't understand so much ofwhat was happening to me, so
many traumatic experiences andso much hardship.
But what I've learned is thatmy parents did the best that
(30:46):
they could.
They didn't know how to beparents.
They were young, two youngpeople and we came fast, one
right after the other youngpeople, and we came fast, one
right after the other.
So it must have been verydifficult for my parents.
But what I see when I look backthere it must have been so sad
for my parents that they weren'table to look after us the way
(31:11):
that was important for us.
It must have been so sad forthem.
So, having said that, the fivegenerations that we've been
disconnected from my culture nowI have to build a bridge over
that.
I don't have the time or theinclination to go get stuck into
(31:35):
this space of all that trauma,all that oppression, all that
historical difficulties.
I don't have the time.
Maybe one of mygreat-granddaughters might have
the time, but I don't.
So I've been taught by my elderto build a bridge over that.
Taught by my elder to build abridge over that connect with my
(31:56):
well ancestors that were livingthe good life and come over
here and begin to bring themedicine over that trauma.
And how it shows itself is Inow can bring the ceremonies to
my grandchildren.
We never had our namingceremonies, we never had the
(32:21):
birthing ceremonies, we neverhad the placental ceremonies,
walking out ceremonies, thestrawberry ceremonies.
We never had any of thoseceremonies.
But now I can bring that.
So there's that bridge, thatand I wrote some shadow work on
that where I am building on thebacks of those that were
(32:44):
oppressed, those that wentthrough the hard times, those
that didn't even know why theirlife was so hard.
I have a responsibility tobring healing, bring the good
life back, and I'm the only onein my family, so I don't have a
lot of time to just waste and beworried about all that stuff.
(33:06):
I picture it like a sled and Ihave all these bundles on there.
You know the naming ceremonyand the walking out, and I'm
bringing those and I'm bringingthem to my grandchildren, but at
the same time, with my parentswho have gone ahead, I created a
ceremony for them because theydidn't have that.
(33:27):
My father was raised Catholic.
My parents then turned toChristianity and I have so much
gratitude because it gave them agood life and I always share,
whenever I can share, that Ilove Jesus because I know that
(33:47):
the belief in Jesus helped themto have a beautiful life
together.
That's what they have.
They were afraid of ourcultural teachings because they
were trained that it was badmedicine, to no fault of their
own, and I understand that.
And now I'm responsible tobring that to my grandchildren.
So they both they left within11 months of each other.
(34:11):
So what I did was I gave myselfa year to create a memorial,
first to my mother.
I needed to grieve her, but Iwas having difficulty with that
because I always took care ofher and I was the one that took
care of, you know, the children.
I was the oldest and when theystruggled with their lives,
(34:35):
there was so much there, oldest,and when they struggled with
their lives, there was so muchthere and I know they both had a
hard time remembering how wewere raised.
I know that and I love them.
I love my parents.
They come to me in my dreamsnow and I can tell them all the
things that are good and weshare that time together and I
(34:56):
feast them.
But what I did for that yearwhen my mom went ahead first I
began to create a quilt for herand it was hard when I began.
I was creating the quilt forher and this quilt took a whole
life of its own.
Took a whole life of its ownBecause as I worked, I started
(35:21):
in December and then I made 13squares to signify the 13 moons
of the year.
That's within our teachings.
But when I got to March itbecame about me and my mother.
And then all of a sudden my dadwas getting ready to leave and
he started showing in my quilt.
There were times during thatyear where I just put it aside.
(35:42):
I couldn't even do anything.
I had to leave it and I had tostart walking and just gently
weeping.
And during that year I neverhad any kind of hard grief like
crying hard or meeting myparents or anything like that.
(36:04):
It was all very gentle, becauseeach month I was working on
these squares and as I began tolook at this quilt as it was
coming together, I began to seea pattern.
Look at this quilt as it wascoming together, I began to see
a pattern.
I was quilting all the goodstories of my mother.
The first two were stories whenshe would take me picking
(36:26):
berries just her and I, and I'dbe sitting on the moss.
The second, when I learnedabout the moose, was her clan.
Then it became about me andwhen I had my first vision, my
first medicine dream, and thenit began with my dad and my mom
and their stories, their funnystories, their happy stories.
(36:50):
It was just my mom, my dad andme on that quilt.
And then, as at the 13th moonin the center, I came back when
it was time to finish that quilt.
I didn't want to finish it, Iwanted to keep creating it, but
I knew that this was the timefor me to begin to.
Okay, now I'm letting go, nowthey can go forward.
(37:13):
So my 13th square was a hugecenter with a moon and my mother
is moose clan and I had a hugemoose on a snowbank and my
father was wolf clan and he wason the other side and then it
showed these human footprintsthat were walking towards the
(37:36):
spirits that I created.
And then I made this beautifulspiral, uh, aurora Borealis,
because in our stories when wesee Aurora Borealis, that's
called the dancing lens andthat's where they go when we see
them.
So when I finished that, um, Ibegan to understand that I
(38:03):
didn't have any hard times.
It was all these good stories.
My parents came to me in spiritand they helped me by making me
remember, you know, my dadcatching this big sturgeon, you
know, and they would be likelassoing it and me flying down
the river when we went to oursummer camps, you know, and they
(38:26):
would be like lassoing it andbe flying down the river when we
went to our summer camps, youknow.
And all these stories of himcalling the geese, and it was.
It was such a beautiful giftfrom my parents.
But now, like I told you, Icome over this bridge carrying
the teachings.
But at the foot of this bridge,as I go forward now with my,
with my grandchildren, my greatgrandchildren, my children, I
(38:49):
have this huge storybook quiltof my parents, because those
little grandchildren will neverknow my parents and it's
important for them to know wherethey came from, not the part
where I built the bridge over.
They don't need to carry thatforward.
They're going to carry thisquilt forward in the stories of
(39:10):
their grandparents.
So that's what I created.
So, yes, there was greatopenings for me.
You know, I began to learn tojust trust the process and be
vulnerable, to just go in therewith everything.
On that, on that, on thatprogram of art therapy One of
(39:31):
the things I wrote right at thebeginning and I let my, my
cohort know in that first week Isaid, guys, I can't worry about
you, guys, I'm going to besharing and telling all these
things and I'm going to be doinga lot of work here, so I'm not
going to be wasting my timebeing shy and being all this
(39:52):
stuff.
I'm here to work and I did, youdid, I did, I had a great time.
So I'm actually meeting themthis summer in northern
Saskatchewan.
There's a land-based camp there, that's wonderful.
(40:17):
No time to waste.
No, oh my gosh, no wasting time.
Let me tell you one last thing,because I turned 68 this year
and I've created an adventure.
I'm going to drive acrossCanada on my own and do art
therapy and find out what's outthere.
(40:37):
I'm just going to go andexperience, I'm going to touch
base with all these differentthings that are happening and
I'm so excited.
I'm planning the trip now,getting my vehicle ready,
planning workshops here andthere.
What am I going to take with me?
Where am I going to sleep?
Camping here and there?
(40:58):
So it's a big excitement.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
This is exciting.
I'm excited, I want to go withyou.
Yeah, that is a really excitingadventure and it makes sense.
You keep bringing to mind whatmama zod was said to me from.
She was from south africa andshe said she said this once to
me many years ago grandmothersare guardians of the future and
(41:24):
I love that so much because whenyou talk about the bridge and
bringing things over from thepast and the present into the
future with these children andthe next generations and I think
that makes so much sensebecause we often think of our
elders and our grandmothers asrepresenting the past, you know,
(41:46):
and telling us stories from thepast but the way that she saw
it was this guardianship, thisresponsibility that you talk
about for the future.
Yes, it was weaving all of thelessons and all that there was
to give into the future and itwasn't about legacy.
You know that's not.
That's a different kind oflanguage.
This was about a guardianshipwhich was not so much power over
(42:08):
or guarding, but aresponsibility.
That's another echo for me thatyou speak about it with
different words, but the echoesof so many grandmothers who I've
had the deep honor to speak toand hear from and learn from.
This is a theme of thisresponsibility, this
guardianship, but also thebeauty.
(42:28):
There's so much beauty in it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Even with myths like there's suffering and there's
hardship and there's oppressionand there's colonialism.
There's just so many forms ofoppressions and at the same time
, so much beauty and so muchhope.
Just I hear it in your voicelike so much powerful hope.
You know that comes from this.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yes, I think humanity is going through some kind of
evolution right now and I don'twant to be the one that's giving
that any more energy than italready has.
The hard evolution part.
I want to be the one thatshares about my trip and how I
fell in the lake when I wastrying to get some water and
(43:12):
sharing it with everybody,getting lost and ending up in an
old forest.
I want to share the fun partand be creating and bringing
color to some of these colorlessspaces.
It's important.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It is.
It feels desperately importantright now and I find this is one
of the great reservoirs ofresilience and knowledge and
wisdom that I do find ingrandmothers and
great-grandmothers.
Yes, I have so much gratitudefor your time and your humor and
you know, you know how to laughand I love that about you but
(43:57):
also just the gift of your timeand your sharing and there's
just so much to learn from youand with you.
I just love it so much and I'mso grateful that you took this
time to share and it feels likeit's just the tip of what's
there.
You know there's so much.
It's so beautiful and precious.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you so much, galana.
The graciousness that Ireceived from my mother.
I see that in you, I see thatspace of seeing somebody.
We see each other and it's sucha beautiful thing Just saying
that is more than words can evensay and I have so much
(44:37):
gratitude that our pathsintersected and you know these
beautiful gardens can grow fromwhat you're doing and bringing
us all together like this.
That is a beautiful, beautifulgift to humanity.
We need that and to have youstepping into that space and
bringing us is a blessing for meand I want to give you
(45:00):
gratitude for that.
Thank you, louise, thank you mymother and my dad.
They would say your mother andyour father did a very good job
when they raised you.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
They do get a lot of the credit, Louise, and my
grandmother too.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
So I thank you and I love to honor your parents that
way.
Thank you for the words of yourmother and thank you for all
that you're doing.
And can we maybe, perhaps wecan come back after your grand
adventure, because I feel likethere's going to be so much to
hear from them and I'm excitedto share it with other
(45:39):
grandmothers who I know.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
The world out there, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I'm sure they're going to ask for it.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
So come back.
I love even just preparing forit.
Already Things are happening.
So yes, I'd love to.
Anytime we can, we can have achin wag.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Beautiful.
So this is it Until next timewe meet and, in the meantime,
good luck with all yourpreparations.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
And thank you so, so much for this beautiful time I
appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Thank you, you have a great day.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Thanks for listening.
I'm Ilana Lansford-Lewis, yourhost of Wisdom at Work Older
women, elder women andgrandmothers on on the move.
To find out more about me orthe podcast, you can go to
wisdom at work podcastcom,formerly grandmothers on the
move, and you can find thepodcast at all your favorite
places to listen to them.
Tune in next week.
Thanks and bye.
(46:36):
Bye for now.
I'm Ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host of
Wisdom at Work.
Older Women, elder Women andGrandmothers on the Move, the
podcast that kicks oldstereotypes to the curb.
Come meet these creative,outrageous, authentic,
adventurous, irreverent andpowerful disruptors and
influencers older women andgrandmothers, from the living
(00:21):
room to the courtroom, makingpowerful contributions in every
walk of life.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome back.
It's Ilana, and today I havesuch a pleasure with a new
friend and comrade and mentor tome, louise Lamott, who is a
Swampy Cree mother of threechildren, the grandmother of 11,
and the great-grandmother of 19.
She's a member of thePimichigamak Free Nation Treaty
(00:50):
5, cross Lake, manitoba.
She was born and raised inCormorant, manitoba, and Louise
was a palliative care nurse for25 years and facilitates
powerful conversations in groupsettings around grief and loss.
Everything Louise does is fromher Indigenous perspective,
considering the elements, mooncycles, medicine wheel, the four
(01:11):
directions and the wholecosmology of her nation.
She is a gifted and inspiredspeaker who can bring calm and
focus to any group, large orsmall, and I know from personal
experience recently with Louisethat, working in retreat
settings and at conferences withhealing organizations for
Indigenous and non-Indigenouspeople, louise speaks humbly and
(01:33):
directly from the heart andfrom her deep wisdom.
A seeker and lifelong learner,a creative artist and crafter,
louise graduated from the WheatInstitute with a dual diploma in
Indigenized Art Therapy andExpressive Art Therapy, the only
such program known of globally.
Louise, it is such a pleasure tohave you here today to have a
(01:55):
conversation with me on theWisdom and Word podcast.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Thank you, alana.
It's such a pleasure to be hereand to share some time and
space with you, and I want totake this first part to
introduce myself from myterritory.
One of the greatest thingswe've learned in rematriating
our culture, for myself inparticular five generations of
(02:22):
not being connected to myculture and I'm the first in my
family to step into my trueteachings.
Now my mother, my grandmother,my great-grandmother and the two
generations before were totallydisconnected, and we have a way
.
Everything like this isceremony.
So this morning I began my daywith ceremony and I included us
(02:45):
in that space yourself and Ithat our space be caring,
compassionate, supportive, areciprocal kind of space where
we can share our knowledges witheach other as working in these
fields, with grandmothers.
So I held us in ceremony thismorning, grandmothers.
(03:06):
So I held us in ceremony thismorning.
The next part that's importantfor me as a Cree woman is to
introduce myself to you throughmy lineage.
The introduction I want toshare with you was gifted to me
by a wonderful elder in theMi'kmaq territory, where I'm a
guest right now.
This elder has gone ahead tothe spirit world.
Her name was Mildred Millierelder has gone ahead to the
(03:28):
spirit world.
Her name was Mildred Millierand I didn't meet her in person.
I was invited by her son tocome and witness her as she was
sent on her journey and this ishow she introduces herself,
which I do now, and I honorElder Mildred Millier for this.
I honor Elder Mildred Millierfor this.
(03:49):
My name is Louise Lamont.
I am a swampy Cree woman.
I am the daughter of AnnieEvans.
She is the daughter of BellaMoose, who is the daughter of
Bella.
I don't know that thirdgeneration, but I come from a
long line, a matriarchal lineageof Cree women, and that Cree
(04:09):
lineage goes right up the rightside of me.
They witness me at all pointsthat I'm doing and sharing in
this space also, and thatlineage of Cree woman leads
right back to the firstIndigenous woman that stepped
onto Turtle Island and that'swho I am.
On my father's side he was aMétis man, his mother was Cree,
(04:33):
his father was French-Canadianand the Cree lineage is in there
also from the matriarchal side.
So I want to also say that I'ma guest here on the land of the
Mi'kmaq people.
I've done my responsibilities asa swampy Cree woman.
When I arrived here, I visitedthe three chiefs of this land
(04:56):
and I offered them tobacco, Ioffered them the four colors of
my nation and I let them knowwho I am.
I introduce myself and let themknow that I understand that I'm
a guest there and that I willdo no harm.
My intention at all pointswhile I'm on their land is to do
no harm and I stand by thatvery, very strongly.
(05:21):
I wanted to introduce myselfthat way.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I'm so pleased because I felt such a deep
connection to you in many waysthe first time we met not so
long ago, and part of that wasbecause art therapy and
expressive arts therapy is closeto my heart, so I look forward
to speaking to you about that.
But also as someone who had theprivilege of working with
grandmothers, in particular, atthe front lines of the AIDS
(05:48):
pandemic in sub-Saharan Africa,I learned so much about
palliative care, so much aboutthat part of life's journey and
what a critical role, inparticular, elders in our
communities play in thesemoments.
And I thought, louise, that I'dlove to start there, although
(06:08):
where would you like to start?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think I can start with the palliative care.
As an Indigenous woman, mypalliative care career was very
necessary, very important for meto grow into the woman that I
am today.
It was very important and Iwent back to school when I was
(06:33):
30 years old.
I took a licensed practicalnursing program in Manitoba and
at that point during our lastsix months we had to work in
preceptorship areas in thehospitals and one of the things
that was very important to mewas that I could not work with
children Because of my owntraumatic spaces where I grew up
(06:57):
.
I knew that I would havedifficulty there, but I also
didn't want to work where peoplewere dying, specifically in
palliative care.
They did the best that theycould to support me in that
space.
I never did end up working withchildren, but my very first step
into working as a nurse I endedup in a space where it was an
(07:19):
end-of-life situation was theend of life situation and the
space, how it affected me, wasso profound that from that day
that's all I did.
I knew that was my space to goand work.
There was such an energy thatwas happening during that time
(07:40):
that I recognized At that pointI didn't realize I was being
taught by spirit.
I understand that now, 30 yearslater, but at that point I
didn't know, I didn't understand.
I called, very attuned to thatspace, my instinct became very,
very strong and very focused.
(08:09):
And because I didn't know thatwas happening, I was affirmed by
families where they would sharetheir spaces with me and tell
me well, nobody really knewabout that.
For example, you know, when itwas time for me to bring music,
there was no verbal interactionbetween myself and the patient
(08:29):
and I just attuned to the musicthat was important for that
person.
And when the family memberwould come in, they would tell
me that was the music that hewould always listen to.
And I remember a man, itzhakPerlman.
I was really drawn.
I thought what an interestingname, Itzhak Perlman.
(08:51):
I'd never heard of this name, Ididn't know anything about it.
And then I went on a place, thesecondhand store to look for
these cassette tapes to play.
This was in the late 80s.
So I found them and I took themback to him and I put that on
the music.
You could physically see himrelaxing.
(09:13):
You could physically see theminute movements of his body
just settling.
We're there for comfortmeasures and pain control.
So we're always monitoring.
But I could see his body justphysically relaxing.
And then his family memberscame in and they were just
shocked that I had found thismusic.
(09:34):
So I began to learn that therewas a language there.
I felt then and I don't know ifI feel it still today I felt
then that myself, as anIndigenous person, a Cree woman,
I felt like we have that skill,we have that way to attune to
(09:55):
those spaces, and so I reallybecame very vocal in speaking up
towards that space being openfor Indigenous nurses.
And where it's shifted now forme is that there's been a shift,
I feel, in the universe itself.
Things are moving very fast, sothere's more spaces open for us
(10:18):
that we can attune to when wepay attention.
But that's a whole other.
That's a whole other.
I'm going all over this becauseit just leads me when I go
there.
But working as a palliativecare nurse gives back.
It gives back fully with energy, it gives back fully with
knowledge, it gives back fullywith compassion.
(10:41):
There's a gratitude space thatcan actually re-energize you so
much that sometimes you can'tsleep when you've gone through
that space.
And I think there's much morethat can be shared in that space
.
As far as knowledge sharing,oftentimes I was very afraid to
(11:02):
share the things that werehappening with me, what I was
learning.
I was very afraid because Ithought they're not going to
believe anything what I'm saying, so I didn't say very much.
It wasn't until when I began toget my cultural teaching and I
understood from the elders,after going through many fasts
and now sun dancing, that theseare parts that are open, that
(11:26):
are there for us.
They know that, they've alwaysknown that, and there are many
tools for us that we can carryin that.
And you mentioned being inAfrica.
I went there, I think in themid-90s.
I did volunteer work there withthe Grey Nuns.
They wanted to create educationwith the local people because
(11:51):
there was so much death anddying happening.
There were no services there,so they wanted to create some
booklets on how to care forfamily members at home.
That space marked me for mylife in a good way, in a very
good way, because I didn't knowwhen I went there and began
doing some teaching and caring,I didn't know that there were
(12:18):
parts of our world that theycould have the full-on signs of
cancer, that they could have thefull-on signs of cancer, yet
didn't know they had cancer.
I didn't know that I had neverseen where the breast could be
fully sick.
It was fully enveloped withcancer, but the woman didn't
(12:38):
know.
She didn't know.
That's what was there didn'tknow.
That's what was there.
So there's something thathappens when you see another
human being that is so extremelyvulnerable.
It calls you to just stop andask permission in that space.
What can I share here?
Should I tell her that this iscancer, or should I not?
(13:02):
Which one is going to do moredamage at this stage of her life
right now?
How do I work in this space?
It allowed me to learn so muchabout myself, or I can just
depend on the wisdom that wouldcome through.
And at that particular point Icould see just by her
(13:22):
respirations, her breathing,just by her color, that it was
not very long.
So I chose not to speak aboutcancer, because I understood
that just the word cancer is soharming, it's so filled with
fear.
So I chose not to say that andI chose to show the family how
(13:45):
to help to cleanse her.
And it was left until laterthat the nun spoke to the family
so that they could be moreaware, going forward for their
own family.
So many situations like that,alana, I believe they happen to
us as human beings in so manyplaces, and the world is going
(14:07):
so fast right now we miss someof it, where we just don't stop
long enough to question what ismy responsibility here.
Respect, I was very blessed tohave been able to work in that
field for 26 years.
So many stories, so manybeautiful people, so many
(14:34):
cultures.
The tenet of that care Iremember so clearly being told
when you walk into somebody'shome, you leave your beliefs at
the door and you let that personlead you.
I benefited so much from thatwisdom.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Remarkable to think that at the very beginning you
had such clarity that that wasan area that you did not want to
work in.
Yes, you mentioned that there'sso much knowledge that can come
to you and there's so much thatyou get back through this
practice and because you workedin so many different places with
different peoples, there's somany different beliefs and
(15:12):
rituals around death.
There's so many different waysof going on that journey.
There's so many different waysthat our lives come to an end.
Was there something that youlearned that was sort of
universal?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
That's a beautiful, beautiful question, Alana.
And yes, when I startedpalliative care, this was in the
late 80s and what was happeningin Canada and Ontario
specifically was palliative carebecame this huge kind of.
It was the focus within all thesystems that be.
(15:52):
So it exploded into this spacewhere the person that was
beginning their journey you saydying, I say going ahead.
That's what it means in mylanguage.
When somebody was getting readyfor that particular journey,
they had a personal choice theycould do that in the hospital or
(16:14):
they could do it at home.
And Ottawa just opened up intothis space where so many people
were choosing to do that at home.
So, as a licensed practicalnurse, our scope of practice
expanded so greatly, likebecause we became case managers.
We'd go into the home and setup the home, counsel the family
(16:39):
and then do all the comfortmeasures and pain control, and
we worked hand in hand with apalliative doctor.
So we were exposed to thiswhole space of nursing.
That was just incredible, foryou know, setting up pain pumps,
bringing in oxygen, sittingwith the family, navigating the
(17:01):
difficulties that can happenduring that time with families
it was a gold mine of learningfor us.
So what happened for me in thatspace.
It took probably about 10 yearsfor me to begin to see something
that was happening that wasreally special for me.
(17:23):
What happened was I foundmyself in one particular place
became very significant.
It would be a space where theperson that was getting ready to
go ahead, they would find aspace when either the spouse or
the family were fast asleep andthey would find that time where
(17:46):
they could let go of things thatthey needed to let go and
things that they needed to shareand things that they wanted to
talk about.
In these homes, one of ourfirst duties was setting up a
diary, a notebook, acommunication book for the whole
family.
You know what we were doing,but I instinctively knew that
(18:09):
these things were not for thatbook, they were not to share.
This was just somebody that wasletting go of stuff that they'd
been carrying for years andyears, and some of them were
very difficult.
So when things get difficultagain, you're in a space of
(18:31):
putting your hands up okay, howdo I navigate this space and be
the best I can be for thisperson so that they can let that
go?
And so many beautiful responsescame through on how I could do
that and what I learned fromthat was there were men,
(18:54):
specifically, that weren't ableto do that, and the reason I
knew that they were carryingthings because they were still
lashing out.
They were lashing out at familymembers, lashing out at me.
You know, they weren't ready togo.
They never got to that place ofacceptance and what would
(19:15):
happen in those spaces is thatthey would really struggle and I
would know when that washappening that we were going to
have breathing issues, we weregoing to have pain issues.
So I knew ahead of time what Ihad to do to prepare for that,
what I had to be ready for.
(19:36):
But there's these other onesthat would unload and give away
all these things, would eitherjust fall asleep or just be as
lucid as they could possibly beand just gently leave.
So there were these two thingsthat I began to be aware of and
I began to learn about and atthe end of it, I came to the
(19:58):
conclusion that, as I'm headingtowards that myself, I won't
bring regrets there and I won'tbring secrets there.
I can do that now.
I can take those things and Idon't have to be at my deathbed
and, you know, be trying tonavigate that space.
(20:19):
I can do it very well now.
I can do that through myceremony, I can do that in my
lodges, I can even do it justwriting and I can give that away
.
I don't have to carry thosethings.
So that's one of the thingsthat I share, that within my own
communities, and I had thebeautiful experience of guiding
(20:44):
my mother, witnessing my motherand doing the seven-day ceremony
with her and guarding thatspace, and she just fell asleep.
That kind of teaching is doableeverywhere.
So the more we share thatknowledge, the more we can have
these good deaths that are oftenspoken about.
(21:06):
It's quite important.
That's so potent.
Thank you for asking me that.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Thank you for that extraordinary piece of knowledge
.
It's hard to move from that.
There's so much to think aboutFor me when I hear that there's
such a connection to art therapyand expressive art therapy.
In a way it's elite, but in away it makes so much sense
because it's all about thesenses and the different ways of
(21:34):
experiencing and workingthrough our lives.
So to me, when you talk aboutregrets and secrets and all of
the deep things that we carrywithin, the fact that you
combined palliative care and allof the knowledge and learning,
what brought you to this space?
How did that happen?
What brought you to this space?
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, it came by so wonderfully when we think of our
transitional spaces in ourlives as women.
When I finished nursing myhusband and I, when the first
year we got married, we made apromise to each other.
He said this is our plan goingahead, you and I.
(22:18):
And we stuck to that plan.
And he said now, what do youwant?
He said I know what I'm goingto do.
What do you want?
I said, well, I'm willing tocontribute to your plan to the
best of my ability.
But when it comes to 60, Idon't want to work anymore.
I want to have those 20 yearswhere I'll be still able to run
(22:40):
and jump, that I want them to bemine.
So we agreed on that.
Well, he forgot about it.
But when I turned 60, I calledhim one night from work and I
let him know.
I said you know what?
I'm 60 now, I'm going to finishworking.
And he's like oh, oh, yeah,okay, you know, and that was it.
(23:05):
But you know what happened?
I grieved my work.
I went into deep grief becauseI stopped so abruptly.
But I went into a grievingspace and I had to find my way
out of that space.
I was there for about a yearand a half.
It was a struggle.
(23:26):
So then I decided well, I don'tthink I'm ready for this, to
just not be doing a lot ofthings.
So I began to try differentthings traveling a bit, getting
involved in the community but Istill wasn't feeling that
passion that I had been so usedto for so many years.
And then, serendipitously, itjust opened up one evening, I
(23:51):
guess when I was ready, Somebodypassed me a book in a crowd we
were doing an art show.
I opened the first page and ittalked about Wheat Institute in
Manitoba.
Oh my, that's amazing.
It was incredible.
So I came home that night and Igoogled that place.
I phoned and I spoke to Darcy,phoned and I spoke to Darcy.
(24:20):
She owns that whole space andjust like that I was starting
class in three days.
She arranged everything aroundme going and three and a half
years later I graduated.
And it was a passion.
I began at 64 and I graduatedthree and a half years later.
I was 64 and I graduated threeand a half years later.
But what is special about art,therapy, education and training?
(24:41):
It is like being three and ahalf years in therapy.
That's what it is.
It's all about experiencing.
Then, when we went into theindigenized art therapy, where
what it was, it was art therapy,and we were obliged to shift
the idea to how do we indigenizethis?
What would work for our people?
(25:03):
How would they receive this?
How could they come into thisspace?
How do we make it safe?
And what I learned sowonderfully in that space is I
had already had the teachingswithin my cultural lodges, but
what we've been learning in ourlodges for all this time is that
(25:24):
we have everything in ourbodies to heal ourselves.
We just have to learn tocommunicate and be with our body
.
And I'll give you an example Ifast, spring and fall, and then
I go and dance in Manitoba.
So when we go fasting, we fastfor four days.
(25:45):
We go in on a Wednesday and wedon't eat or drink water for
four days.
We come out on Sunday, we'resinging, we're praying.
Out on Sunday, we're singing,we're praying.
We go into sweat lodges and wego into spaces that are very
spiritual for us.
And I didn't struggle the firstyear, but the second year I
struggled with hunger.
(26:06):
What happened?
I was so hungry, my stomach wasmaking noises and I went and I
sat down to do some praying andthen I realized I must talk to
my body, and all I did was tellmy body we're okay, we're not
starving, we're not in danger,we're doing this for a good
(26:28):
reason and I need your help toget me through this.
We're going to eat, we don'thave to worry about that, and,
alana, it was like magic All thehunger stopped.
So what that told me was thateverything is in this body.
Everything I need to healmyself, to be a good person,
(26:50):
everything is there and it'slike that for everybody and it's
like that for everybody.
So when I applied that samespace to my training in art
therapy, what happened with meis I began to bring up all these
things because I come from avery difficult upbringing, so
(27:10):
all that stuff began to arrive.
I was very fortunate to be inthose spaces where I could learn
how to be, in those spaceswhere I could learn how to work
with those spaces.
And now, going out into theworld with art therapy, I
already know I'm not the kind ofart therapist that's going to
go into an office and, you know,do three or four people, one
(27:34):
after the other, and that's nota space for me.
I need to be in the space ofheart, connected to the mind,
connected to my voice.
I need to be in that space.
So there's a calling right now.
We need to step in stronglyinto our Indigenous spaces.
So where I can do the best thatI can is with groups of people.
(27:57):
So that's the space I've chosen.
So I've begun to createdifferent offerings that I can
go out into the community.
They're received very well andI come away from them feeling
very well that I've accomplishedwhat needed to be accomplished,
and yet with all that passionand that goodness and happiness
(28:20):
again.
So here I am in that space.
I haven't yet married it to anyof my palliative care training.
I'm doing some work with theCongress of Aboriginal Peoples
and they have a new mandate atthis time where they're focusing
on palliative care for theIndigenous communities, because
we don't have very much of thatright now.
(28:42):
And I think art might play itsway into that also because there
are many art practices that wecan use within palliative care.
Some of it, for example, iscalled third-hand art, where I'm
the artist and it goes with ourconversation.
There are so many possibilities.
(29:03):
I'm just letting it flow,letting it flow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Beautiful.
I love it because you can seethat there's so much creative
energy and creative juicesflowing.
You can hear it when you'respeaking just in terms of the
possibilities, and now you're agrandmother and a
great-grandmother, so there areechoes and circles of children
and childhood all around you inthese stories, and you've talked
(29:30):
a couple of times about havingchallenging experiences as a
child.
And then all of this healing.
And I wonder, as a grandmother,as a great-grandmother, someone
who works on healing, to me Ifeel like you're holding hands
with so many pasts and so manypresent and so many futures yet
(29:50):
unrealized, you know.
So I wonder, where does thatsit with you?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
First of all I want to say Elena, that word echoes.
I really like that, the echoesaround us sharing our stories.
That has a real beauty to it.
It beckons me to work with thatword.
But I think in one wordresponsibility.
I have to say responsibility.
(30:18):
One of the gentle ways that theelders have trained me is I
don't need to be immersed in thespaces where I was raised.
I didn't understand so much ofwhat was happening to me, so
many traumatic experiences andso much hardship.
But what I've learned is thatmy parents did the best that
(30:46):
they could.
They didn't know how to beparents.
They were young, two youngpeople and we came fast, one
right after the other youngpeople, and we came fast, one
right after the other.
So it must have been verydifficult for my parents.
But what I see when I look backthere it must have been so sad
for my parents that they weren'table to look after us the way
(31:11):
that was important for us.
It must have been so sad forthem.
So, having said that, the fivegenerations that we've been
disconnected from my culture nowI have to build a bridge over
that.
I don't have the time or theinclination to go get stuck into
(31:35):
this space of all that trauma,all that oppression, all that
historical difficulties.
I don't have the time.
Maybe one of mygreat-granddaughters might have
the time, but I don't.
So I've been taught by my elderto build a bridge over that.
Taught by my elder to build abridge over that connect with my
(31:56):
well ancestors that were livingthe good life and come over
here and begin to bring themedicine over that trauma.
And how it shows itself is Inow can bring the ceremonies to
my grandchildren.
We never had our namingceremonies, we never had the
(32:21):
birthing ceremonies, we neverhad the placental ceremonies,
walking out ceremonies, thestrawberry ceremonies.
We never had any of thoseceremonies.
But now I can bring that.
So there's that bridge, thatand I wrote some shadow work on
that where I am building on thebacks of those that were
(32:44):
oppressed, those that wentthrough the hard times, those
that didn't even know why theirlife was so hard.
I have a responsibility tobring healing, bring the good
life back, and I'm the only onein my family, so I don't have a
lot of time to just waste and beworried about all that stuff.
(33:06):
I picture it like a sled and Ihave all these bundles on there.
You know the naming ceremonyand the walking out, and I'm
bringing those and I'm bringingthem to my grandchildren, but at
the same time, with my parentswho have gone ahead, I created a
ceremony for them because theydidn't have that.
(33:27):
My father was raised Catholic.
My parents then turned toChristianity and I have so much
gratitude because it gave them agood life and I always share,
whenever I can share, that Ilove Jesus because I know that
(33:47):
the belief in Jesus helped themto have a beautiful life
together.
That's what they have.
They were afraid of ourcultural teachings because they
were trained that it was badmedicine, to no fault of their
own, and I understand that.
And now I'm responsible tobring that to my grandchildren.
So they both they left within11 months of each other.
(34:11):
So what I did was I gave myselfa year to create a memorial,
first to my mother.
I needed to grieve her, but Iwas having difficulty with that
because I always took care ofher and I was the one that took
care of, you know, the children.
I was the oldest and when theystruggled with their lives,
(34:35):
there was so much there, oldest,and when they struggled with
their lives, there was so muchthere and I know they both had a
hard time remembering how wewere raised.
I know that and I love them.
I love my parents.
They come to me in my dreamsnow and I can tell them all the
things that are good and weshare that time together and I
(34:56):
feast them.
But what I did for that yearwhen my mom went ahead first I
began to create a quilt for herand it was hard when I began.
I was creating the quilt forher and this quilt took a whole
life of its own.
Took a whole life of its ownBecause as I worked, I started
(35:21):
in December and then I made 13squares to signify the 13 moons
of the year.
That's within our teachings.
But when I got to March itbecame about me and my mother.
And then all of a sudden my dadwas getting ready to leave and
he started showing in my quilt.
There were times during thatyear where I just put it aside.
(35:42):
I couldn't even do anything.
I had to leave it and I had tostart walking and just gently
weeping.
And during that year I neverhad any kind of hard grief like
crying hard or meeting myparents or anything like that.
(36:04):
It was all very gentle, becauseeach month I was working on
these squares and as I began tolook at this quilt as it was
coming together, I began to seea pattern.
Look at this quilt as it wascoming together, I began to see
a pattern.
I was quilting all the goodstories of my mother.
The first two were stories whenshe would take me picking
(36:26):
berries just her and I, and I'dbe sitting on the moss.
The second, when I learnedabout the moose, was her clan.
Then it became about me andwhen I had my first vision, my
first medicine dream, and thenit began with my dad and my mom
and their stories, their funnystories, their happy stories.
(36:50):
It was just my mom, my dad andme on that quilt.
And then, as at the 13th moonin the center, I came back when
it was time to finish that quilt.
I didn't want to finish it, Iwanted to keep creating it, but
I knew that this was the timefor me to begin to.
Okay, now I'm letting go, nowthey can go forward.
(37:13):
So my 13th square was a hugecenter with a moon and my mother
is moose clan and I had a hugemoose on a snowbank and my
father was wolf clan and he wason the other side and then it
showed these human footprintsthat were walking towards the
(37:36):
spirits that I created.
And then I made this beautifulspiral, uh, aurora Borealis,
because in our stories when wesee Aurora Borealis, that's
called the dancing lens andthat's where they go when we see
them.
So when I finished that, um, Ibegan to understand that I
(38:03):
didn't have any hard times.
It was all these good stories.
My parents came to me in spiritand they helped me by making me
remember, you know, my dadcatching this big sturgeon, you
know, and they would be likelassoing it and me flying down
the river when we went to oursummer camps, you know, and they
(38:26):
would be like lassoing it andbe flying down the river when we
went to our summer camps, youknow.
And all these stories of himcalling the geese, and it was.
It was such a beautiful giftfrom my parents.
But now, like I told you, Icome over this bridge carrying
the teachings.
But at the foot of this bridge,as I go forward now with my,
with my grandchildren, my greatgrandchildren, my children, I
(38:49):
have this huge storybook quiltof my parents, because those
little grandchildren will neverknow my parents and it's
important for them to know wherethey came from, not the part
where I built the bridge over.
They don't need to carry thatforward.
They're going to carry thisquilt forward in the stories of
(39:10):
their grandparents.
So that's what I created.
So, yes, there was greatopenings for me.
You know, I began to learn tojust trust the process and be
vulnerable, to just go in therewith everything.
On that, on that, on thatprogram of art therapy One of
(39:31):
the things I wrote right at thebeginning and I let my, my
cohort know in that first week Isaid, guys, I can't worry about
you, guys, I'm going to besharing and telling all these
things and I'm going to be doinga lot of work here, so I'm not
going to be wasting my timebeing shy and being all this
(39:52):
stuff.
I'm here to work and I did, youdid, I did, I had a great time.
So I'm actually meeting themthis summer in northern
Saskatchewan.
There's a land-based camp there, that's wonderful.
(40:17):
No time to waste.
No, oh my gosh, no wasting time.
Let me tell you one last thing,because I turned 68 this year
and I've created an adventure.
I'm going to drive acrossCanada on my own and do art
therapy and find out what's outthere.
(40:37):
I'm just going to go andexperience, I'm going to touch
base with all these differentthings that are happening and
I'm so excited.
I'm planning the trip now,getting my vehicle ready,
planning workshops here andthere.
What am I going to take with me?
Where am I going to sleep?
Camping here and there?
(40:58):
So it's a big excitement.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
This is exciting.
I'm excited, I want to go withyou.
Yeah, that is a really excitingadventure and it makes sense.
You keep bringing to mind whatmama zod was said to me from.
She was from south africa andshe said she said this once to
me many years ago grandmothersare guardians of the future and
(41:24):
I love that so much because whenyou talk about the bridge and
bringing things over from thepast and the present into the
future with these children andthe next generations and I think
that makes so much sensebecause we often think of our
elders and our grandmothers asrepresenting the past, you know,
(41:46):
and telling us stories from thepast but the way that she saw
it was this guardianship, thisresponsibility that you talk
about for the future.
Yes, it was weaving all of thelessons and all that there was
to give into the future and itwasn't about legacy.
You know that's not.
That's a different kind oflanguage.
This was about a guardianshipwhich was not so much power over
(42:08):
or guarding, but aresponsibility.
That's another echo for me thatyou speak about it with
different words, but the echoesof so many grandmothers who I've
had the deep honor to speak toand hear from and learn from.
This is a theme of thisresponsibility, this
guardianship, but also thebeauty.
(42:28):
There's so much beauty in it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Even with myths like there's suffering and there's
hardship and there's oppressionand there's colonialism.
There's just so many forms ofoppressions and at the same time
, so much beauty and so muchhope.
Just I hear it in your voicelike so much powerful hope.
You know that comes from this.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yes, I think humanity is going through some kind of
evolution right now and I don'twant to be the one that's giving
that any more energy than italready has.
The hard evolution part.
I want to be the one thatshares about my trip and how I
fell in the lake when I wastrying to get some water and
(43:12):
sharing it with everybody,getting lost and ending up in an
old forest.
I want to share the fun partand be creating and bringing
color to some of these colorlessspaces.
It's important.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It is.
It feels desperately importantright now and I find this is one
of the great reservoirs ofresilience and knowledge and
wisdom that I do find ingrandmothers and
great-grandmothers.
Yes, I have so much gratitudefor your time and your humor and
you know, you know how to laughand I love that about you but
(43:57):
also just the gift of your timeand your sharing and there's
just so much to learn from youand with you.
I just love it so much and I'mso grateful that you took this
time to share and it feels likeit's just the tip of what's
there.
You know there's so much.
It's so beautiful and precious.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you so much, galana.
The graciousness that Ireceived from my mother.
I see that in you, I see thatspace of seeing somebody.
We see each other and it's sucha beautiful thing Just saying
that is more than words can evensay and I have so much
(44:37):
gratitude that our pathsintersected and you know these
beautiful gardens can grow fromwhat you're doing and bringing
us all together like this.
That is a beautiful, beautifulgift to humanity.
We need that and to have youstepping into that space and
bringing us is a blessing for meand I want to give you
(45:00):
gratitude for that.
Thank you, louise, thank you mymother and my dad.
They would say your mother andyour father did a very good job
when they raised you.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
They do get a lot of the credit, Louise, and my
grandmother too.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
So I thank you and I love to honor your parents that
way.
Thank you for the words of yourmother and thank you for all
that you're doing.
And can we maybe, perhaps wecan come back after your grand
adventure, because I feel likethere's going to be so much to
hear from them and I'm excitedto share it with other
(45:39):
grandmothers who I know.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
The world out there, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I'm sure they're going to ask for it.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
So come back.
I love even just preparing forit.
Already Things are happening.
So yes, I'd love to.
Anytime we can, we can have achin wag.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Beautiful.
So this is it Until next timewe meet and, in the meantime,
good luck with all yourpreparations.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
And thank you so, so much for this beautiful time I
appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Thank you, you have a great day.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Thanks for listening.
I'm Ilana Lansford-Lewis, yourhost of Wisdom at Work Older
women, elder women andgrandmothers on on the move.
To find out more about me orthe podcast, you can go to
wisdom at work podcastcom,formerly grandmothers on the
move, and you can find thepodcast at all your favorite
places to listen to them.
Tune in next week.
Thanks and bye.
(46:36):
Bye for now.
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