Welcome! This is ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast: Elderwomen, Older women and Grandmothers on the Move!
What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series... 'Age With Rights and Dignity' - 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world. These committed champions and advocates will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons, and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the rights of older persons into being - for you and me, no matter how old we are now!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:22):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions willshare with us why they care
about the rights of olderpersons and what they are doing
to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the Rights
of Older Persons into being,for you and for me, no matter
how old we are.
(00:43):
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom and sign
the global petition for the UNConvention on the Rights of
(01:04):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Goenis.
Thank you for joining us, enjoythis special initiative, and my
thanks to Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble for
(01:27):
bringing this opportunity to usto hear from these important
guests who promote the humanrights and the dignity of older
persons the world over.
Hi, welcome back.
It's Ilana from Wisdom at Workpodcast and I'm bringing to all
of you Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble, the person
who conceptualized and broughtinto being the special 10-part
(01:48):
series on the UN Convention forthe Rights of Older Persons.
Margaret, welcome to thepodcast.
Thank you, lana.
It's great to be here, great tohave you, margaret.
You and I have been working onthis for a while together, but I
thought it would be importantfor people to hear from you, to
understand what is the nature ofthis campaign.
Why has it come into being?
Why don't we start with justgetting to know you a bit,
(02:10):
margaret, and your?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
background and what brought you to the human rights
of older people?
Yeah, that's great.
So you know, actually, when Ithink back about it, why am I so
fascinated and want to beinvolved about human rights of
older persons?
I kind of reflected it, figuredit has to do with growing up.
I was fascinated about history,ancient things and why do
things come to the way that theyare.
When I was growing up I wasvery curious about the different
Chinese dynasty, how peopleevolved, the Chinese people
(02:34):
evolved over time and then,being born in Hong Kong, the
British culture was all aroundme and while Queen Elizabeth II
was a prominent figure, Isomehow learned about Queen
Elizabeth I and I was reallyfascinated with English
Renaissance and all thathappened during that era, to the
point that I even went onholidays and then I went to
London.
I went to bookstores to lookfor books about her.
(02:56):
So this shift about beingcurious about history and
ancient times really shiftedwhen I made a trip one point to
Asia where I went to both HongKong and Singapore, and I saw a
very striking contrast in thelives of older people.
And what I mean by that is that, you know, in Hong Kong I
walked in urban downtownbustling, hong Kong, and I saw
(03:18):
older people sitting on thesidewalk, you know, begging for
money.
Then, when I was in Singapore,I saw also an older person at
the sidewalk but he was actuallydoing work.
He was chiseling beautifulartwork into the pavement.
So that really kind of struck achord with me because it points
to what different lives couldbe in terms of older age and I
was wondering how does it cometo be and where does it go from
(03:40):
there?
So that really planted a seedfor me to want to work with
older people and to work witholder people at some point in my
life.
I didn't know when that wasgoing to be.
So along the way during mybanking career, I actually
volunteered in different rolesand organizations that has to do
with older people and I did mygerontology background along the
way.
Then, finally, I figured it wastime and in 2019, I founded Age
(04:02):
Noble, my organization, where Itook my skills that I developed
during my corporate career sothat I can serve organizations
that are already supportingolder people to increase the
impact.
In 2019, it was also the yearwhen I first was exposed to the
world of human rights for olderperson.
I was part of the PasadenaNetwork delegation to the
Open-Ended Working Group onAging, and when I got to the UN,
(04:24):
it was really an eye-opener.
I saw the proceedings.
Yes, it was very formal, butthere was also a lot of
undertones in terms of howmember states discuss various
topics.
I saw how passionate NGOs wereabout older people and, more
importantly, the human rightscomponent.
There was actually an advocatefrom Peru who made her
(04:47):
intervention and she was cryingand that made the whole room.
I can feel the silence ofeverybody watching and listening
to her sector all based onpolicy and programs.
But human rights is somethingthat is going to be really the
game changer.
So when I left the UN, I startedto research about it.
(05:09):
What's going on right now?
Who's working on the rights ofolder persons?
And then I found out about thisgroup called the Global
Alliance for the Rights of OlderPeople.
I spoke with the PasadenaNetwork, we looked into their
work and I said, hey, we need tobe part of this.
First, I started as a studentgroup in 2020, and I became the
chair in 2023 to 2024.
And right now, I'm theimmediate past chair.
(05:30):
So I think taking away from allthis is that, on the ground,
every day we're not exposed tohuman rights of older persons,
but once we learn the power ofit, there's really an
opportunity for a great change,transformative change, not just
for the older people today andtheir lives, it's for all
generations to come, and it'sboth.
To me, the biggest thing isthat not only is it rights and
(05:52):
dignity in terms of the seriesof what we're calling, but also
the whole self-determinationpiece, be it during the good
times or bad times, that humanrights will support us to do
that.
To continue on individually.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and it's really
beautiful how you came to it.
And also, I think the realityis that we're all aging and so
one thing that is universal,absolutely universal we say that
human rights are universal andindivisible but the other thing
that's absolutely guaranteed isthat all of us are aging and, if
we're fortunate enough, we'lllive to a long and old age, and
(06:26):
so this really isn't just aconcern for older persons but
for all of us.
Right, it's partly about ourhumanity and the human family
and human rights for all.
And I guess that brings us toyou know, why have a campaign,
why have this initiative, thiskind of awareness raising
initiative?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and I think you said it so aptly when you say
that you know it's awarenesseffort that we want to make
through this particular projectand this work of aging with
rights and dignity.
So there's a few reasons.
The first and foremost, as yousaid, is awareness.
So, while we have an ongoingmovement already, with some very
avid advocates and we'rebringing on new people, it's not
(07:02):
widespread enough in terms ofgrassroots momentum In the
communities, in our everydaylives.
When we see the inequities thatolder people face and we see it
in the newspaper in differentways and forms, we say, hey,
we've got to make our lawsbetter, we've got to improve our
public policy, we need to havemore programs, but we don't
really think of it as, hey, thisis a human rights violation
(07:23):
that's happening here.
So with this project, what wewant to do is we bring that
light that it is a human rightsviolation and, as you said,
being part of the human family,we automatically have human
rights.
So why is it that the olderperson and the older population
do not have their rightsrecognized?
And in order to have the rightsrecognized, we need to have a
new international legalinstrument that explicitly say
(07:45):
what the standards are.
So, for example, right nowthere's nothing in human rights
standards about long-term care,palliative care, lifelong
learning.
You know all those things thatare very important to us in
older age.
Social security is another bigone.
So that's why we ask ourinterviewees to really share,
from their lens, from theircountry, either what they
experienced personally or whatthey've witnessed in their
(08:06):
country either what theyexperienced personally or what
they witnessed in their country.
What is one key human rightsgap so that, as listeners and I
was really fascinated when Ilistened to them you know what
they see and saw.
To give that human rights gaplike color and texture, so that
we can understand what ishappening, and also to overlay
that with intersectionality ofgender and different physical
and cognitive abilities, toreally show up that older
(08:29):
persons and the older populationis not homogeneous.
That's another key.
So that's a whole kind ofbuilding awareness and creating
that broader understanding ofwhat's going on and what's
needed.
So the second is really toshowcase and celebrate the
advocacy work that's underwayglobally.
So for this series, we invitedadvocates from eight different
(08:50):
countries, of different culture,economic statuses, to really
show us that, while the textureand colors would be different in
terms of whether the olderpeople are enjoying their human
rights or not enjoying theirhuman rights, but the themes are
all the same and, once again,this is why we need an
international integratedinstrument.
And also within the series,we'll hear from two younger
(09:12):
women in terms of why they'reinterested in the work of human
rights of older person.
They want to be part of thisproject.
The third and final reason isreally to invite more people to
join the movement.
Our hope is that once someonehas listened to our advocates,
they will want to reach out andfind out more, and that they
would be so impassioned withwhat was said and shared that
they would sign a globalpetition to support a UN
(09:34):
convention for the rights ofolder persons.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Well, and that brings us to the question of timing
and what's happening right nowand the full panoply of
activities and groups andcommittees talking about the
need for whether there is a needfor a, a new UN Convention on
the Rights of Older Persons.
Why now?
Why take this on at this moment?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's a great question.
I think there's broaderawareness that there is a
working group at the UnitedNations called the Open
Networking Group on Aging,tackling the issues of human
rights of older persons.
But I think what's helpful tounderstand a little bit in the
context of when older people andpopulation aging come into the
world global stage.
They started in 1982 at theWorld Assembly in Vienna.
(10:13):
So at that point in time it wasvery much a policy-based, a
program-based.
So member states got togetherand said, okay, we need to have
some guidance in terms of agingpolicy and programs.
So then there was thisinstrument called the
International Plan of Action onAging.
That was developed to reallyguide the member states when
they go back what should beconsidered in terms of
developments of programs andpolicy.
(10:34):
So that was in 1982.
There was ad hoc implementationbecause it's not binding
Binding, meaning that it's notlegally required to implement it
once agreed upon.
So to give more momentum behindit, the member states came back
in 1991 and said let's developsome guiding principles of how
we should support and treatolder people right.
(10:55):
So then there was 18 principlesthat was developed.
The document was called theUnited Nations Principles for
Older Person and basically itcovered five key areas
independence, participation,care, self-fulfillment and
dignity.
When we read it, we can startthinking, hey, maybe these are
the principles for human rightsof older persons.
Then time continued on.
In 2002, the member states cameback to the International Plan
(11:20):
of Action on Aging to see howit's developing.
So at that point this was inMadrid.
So this particular plan thenbecame the Madrid International
Plan on Aging and basically atthat point they feel that
implementation is still a bitlagging for different reasons.
So therefore they said, okay,let's have a monitoring and
reporting cycle and let's makesure that we have the lens of
(11:40):
social economic development andhuman rights in it.
So this is the first time thathuman rights is brought to the
forefront in terms of the olderperson.
Fast forward to 2010,.
That's when the GeneralAssembly adopted a resolution to
establish the Open EndedWorking Group on Aging, and this
group's mandate is really tolook at and consider existing
instruments, internationalinstruments on human rights of
(12:01):
older persons and then identifywhether or not there are any
gaps and, if there are gaps,what to do about them, including
whether or not to have moreinstruments on human rights of
older person.
So this is quite a pivotaldevelopment because up until
then, there wasn't really aspecific focus purely on human
rights of older person.
So hooray that we have that.
And then, secondly, within thisworking group, not only is it
(12:22):
the UN member states, the UNagency civil society meaning
older persons States, a UNagency civil society meaning
older persons, ngos, everybodyelse get a chance to participate
, as well as National HumanRights Institution, which is a
not common practice.
I think the group, when theystarted, was really excited and
then the work continued.
We do hear the comment whathappened over 14 years and
what's the result of 14 years ofwork?
(12:44):
Because the open-ended workinggroup went from 2011 to 2024.
And along the way, the Officeof the High Commissioner of
Human Rights at the UN publishedseveral reports about what's
the frameworks that exist todayand basically they found that
existing frameworks arefragmented and that they are
insufficient in protecting thehuman rights of older person and
(13:06):
that a new international humanrights framework or instrument
is needed in order to promoteand protect the rights of older
people.
So, just as the establishmentof the working group was very
pivotal in 2011, the recentsession the 14th session in May
2024, was equally, if not more,pivotal Because, based on the
(13:26):
work of the 14 years.
The member states actuallyreached a decision and the
decision acknowledged that thereare possible gaps on the human
rights of older person and thatthey also recommended a
non-exclusive list of 11 optionsof what to do about it.
And the first option that'slisted if I remember right, the
first option is actually aninternational, legally binding
(13:49):
human rights instrument, whichis what we call UN Convention.
So this is really pivotalbecause it's actually
acknowledgement that there areissues and that one of the
possible solutions would be theUN Convention.
So this particular decision wasthen presented to the President
of the General Assembly andthere was a meeting about it in
August 2024 at the GeneralAssembly.
(14:10):
So after the deliberation on thedecision, there were like three
key points that was arrived at.
So first is that the open-endedworking group has completed its
mandate.
So that's great, we celebratedcompleted its mandate.
So second is that all relevantUN agencies are urged to look at
this decision that's put forthby the working group and, of
course, the UN agency that hasthe most relevant mandate is the
(14:31):
Human Rights Council.
So while it doesn't explicitlysay Human Rights Council, that's
a relevant UN agency.
So that's another yay for us,because that's where we want the
work to continue.
And the third thing was thatthe General Assembly will hold a
high-level meeting in 2025 tolook at the decision more
closely and its recommendationand kind of figure out the next
steps.
It might not be as explicit interms of some of the support we
(14:53):
wanted relative to theconvention, but it was a very
strong way forward.
So for me personally, afterAugust there is an opportunity
to celebrate.
We need to kind of move forwardin a confident and yet not
complacent way.
We are confident because,through the efforts of civil
society, national human rightsinstitutions, as well as
supporting member states, weactually brought the UN
(15:14):
Convention as an option on thetable.
And we cannot be complacentbecause now it's when the hard
work really needs to reallycontinue and push even harder
for more majority member statesupport so that we can land on
the convention and in order tohave success at the
intergovernmental negotiationsat the UN, we really need to
have strong national levelsupport, and to get that we
(15:35):
really need more people, moreactors every day, like you and
me, around us to understandwhat's happening and then to
advocate for older people'shuman rights and then to tell
the local governments and thenational governments to start
protecting the human rights ofolder person.
That is not adequate as it istoday, and it's time for UN
Convention.
(15:55):
So this is why we decided toput this project together in
time for this year's HumanRights Day in December, so that
the rights of older people wouldbe center stage, along with all
the different human rights ofdifferent population groups, so
that we bring that equalitypiece to the older population
and to bring that light to thetable.
So that's why the timing is nowfor this project.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So you've talked about how we have to double down
now and work even harder andkeep pushing, because now's the
moment where really the voiceshave to double down now and work
even harder and keep pushing,because now's the moment where
really the voices have to comefrom the national level to the
governments, to theintergovernmental discussions,
to the Human Rights Council.
So, for this particularinitiative, what are we asking
people to do?
What would be helpful?
When people are listening tothis, how can they get engaged?
(16:38):
Yeah, I think that's a greatquestion I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You know, reach out to others who are already in the
movement to find out more, signthe petition.
But also, you know, as anindividual, if we see a systemic
human rights issue, we have theright to contact our
governments, our human rightsombudsman, people who are part
of our human rights commissionin our country and say, hey,
this is not right, this is ahuman rights violation, because
(17:07):
the power is really in thepeople, in you and me.
So an example of this isearlier this year in Switzerland
, a group of older women who areclimate activists actually won
a court case at the EuropeanHuman Rights Court against the
Swiss government.
The Swiss government was notfollowing some of the
initiatives or the standardsaround carbon emissions and
helping to combat climate changeand for the older population,
as we know, climate change andthe heat wave, the weather,
(17:29):
provide greater risk for olderpeople, especially isolated
older people.
So you know, the case wasreally underpinned by the fact
that older people's lives wereat risk.
So they actually won the caseand it's the power in the
everyday person that made thathappen.
So, secondly, if you are anonprofit, you are doing strong
advocacy every day in terms ofpolicies with your local
(17:50):
governments or national federalgovernments.
What we need to do isincorporate the human rights
lens in there to strengthen thearguments for what we want, and
also to work with others as acoalition to strengthen our
voice.
Thirdly, if you're a serviceprovider or a program provider
for older people, reallyincorporate a human rights-based
approach in terms of thedevelopment and design of your
(18:13):
services or your programs, andwhat I mean by that is to really
engage older persons for theirinput when developing what it is
that's needed and to make surethat there is not a
discrimination based on age orage-biased beliefs.
And then, finally, we can allbe a catalyst of change and help
spread the word.
So in this project, we have asmall but mighty team in you and
(18:33):
Lana, Kira and Faith and myself, and what we did was really,
really just.
Our job was to help spread theword, and we created a stage for
eight advocates to share theirwork and for some of them, it's
actually the life work inpromoting the human rights of
all the person and toward the UNConvention For us all,
spreading the words as easy asforwarding on the global
petition or one or all thosepodcast series that resonated
(18:56):
with you.
The power is really in you andme.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
That's a beautiful note to end on, margaret.
Thank you so so much, and thankyou for the opportunity to be
involved in this.
It's been absolutely wonderfuland I encourage everyone to
listen to the conversations.
The advocates are trulyinspiring.
There are people who are justlike us, who have the passion
for human rights and the humanrights for other people in
particular.
So thank you so much for theopportunity, margaret, and thank
(19:19):
you for dreaming this up anddreaming it into being.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, thank you, alana.
It's really been a fantastic,incredible journey working on
the project together with oureight fantastic advocates in
Catherine, fidushi, frances,jane, maura, nina, teresa and
Vijay, and a tirelesschampionship.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
This is really how it works creating a collective and
creating momentum.
So thank you.
Thank you, alana.
Welcome.
This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis,your host for the Wisdom at Work
podcast.
Elder Women, older Women andGrandmothers on the Move.
What follows is a special andexciting 10-part series.
Have you ever thought about howhuman rights plays an essential
and meaningful role in ourolder age?
Well, you're in the right place.
You're listening to Age withRights and Dignity 10 interviews
(00:22):
in which we will hear fromolder and younger advocates from
different corners of the world.
These committed champions willshare with us why they care
about the rights of olderpersons and what they are doing
to help bring a new UnitedNations Convention on the Rights
of Older Persons into being,for you and for me, no matter
how old we are.
(00:43):
Now Join the movement and raiseyour voice.
Go to the Age Noble HumanRights Day 2024 blog to find out
more that isA-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom and sign
the global petition for the UNConvention on the Rights of
(01:04):
Older Persons.
I'm also excited to introduceyou to two wonderful guest
interviewers, younger women whoare committed to these issues
and will be joining me in thisseries to interview some of our
esteemed guests Faith Young andKira Goenis.
Thank you for joining us, enjoythis special initiative, and my
thanks to Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble for
(01:27):
bringing this opportunity to usto hear from these important
guests who promote the humanrights and the dignity of older
persons the world over.
Hi, welcome back.
It's Ilana from Wisdom at Workpodcast and I'm bringing to all
of you Margaret Young, thefounder of Age Noble, the person
who conceptualized and broughtinto being the special 10-part
(01:48):
series on the UN Convention forthe Rights of Older Persons.
Margaret, welcome to thepodcast.
Thank you, lana.
It's great to be here, great tohave you, margaret.
You and I have been working onthis for a while together, but I
thought it would be importantfor people to hear from you, to
understand what is the nature ofthis campaign.
Why has it come into being?
Why don't we start with justgetting to know you a bit,
(02:10):
margaret, and your?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
background and what brought you to the human rights
of older people?
Yeah, that's great.
So you know, actually, when Ithink back about it, why am I so
fascinated and want to beinvolved about human rights of
older persons?
I kind of reflected it, figuredit has to do with growing up.
I was fascinated about history,ancient things and why do
things come to the way that theyare.
When I was growing up I wasvery curious about the different
Chinese dynasty, how peopleevolved, the Chinese people
(02:34):
evolved over time and then,being born in Hong Kong, the
British culture was all aroundme and while Queen Elizabeth II
was a prominent figure, Isomehow learned about Queen
Elizabeth I and I was reallyfascinated with English
Renaissance and all thathappened during that era, to the
point that I even went onholidays and then I went to
London.
I went to bookstores to lookfor books about her.
(02:56):
So this shift about beingcurious about history and
ancient times really shiftedwhen I made a trip one point to
Asia where I went to both HongKong and Singapore, and I saw a
very striking contrast in thelives of older people.
And what I mean by that is that, you know, in Hong Kong I
walked in urban downtownbustling, hong Kong, and I saw
(03:18):
older people sitting on thesidewalk, you know, begging for
money.
Then, when I was in Singapore,I saw also an older person at
the sidewalk but he was actuallydoing work.
He was chiseling beautifulartwork into the pavement.
So that really kind of struck achord with me because it points
to what different lives couldbe in terms of older age and I
was wondering how does it cometo be and where does it go from
(03:40):
there?
So that really planted a seedfor me to want to work with
older people and to work witholder people at some point in my
life.
I didn't know when that wasgoing to be.
So along the way during mybanking career, I actually
volunteered in different rolesand organizations that has to do
with older people and I did mygerontology background along the
way.
Then, finally, I figured it wastime and in 2019, I founded Age
(04:02):
Noble, my organization, where Itook my skills that I developed
during my corporate career sothat I can serve organizations
that are already supportingolder people to increase the
impact.
In 2019, it was also the yearwhen I first was exposed to the
world of human rights for olderperson.
I was part of the PasadenaNetwork delegation to the
Open-Ended Working Group onAging, and when I got to the UN,
(04:24):
it was really an eye-opener.
I saw the proceedings.
Yes, it was very formal, butthere was also a lot of
undertones in terms of howmember states discuss various
topics.
I saw how passionate NGOs wereabout older people and, more
importantly, the human rightscomponent.
There was actually an advocatefrom Peru who made her
(04:47):
intervention and she was cryingand that made the whole room.
I can feel the silence ofeverybody watching and listening
to her sector all based onpolicy and programs.
But human rights is somethingthat is going to be really the
game changer.
So when I left the UN, I startedto research about it.
(05:09):
What's going on right now?
Who's working on the rights ofolder persons?
And then I found out about thisgroup called the Global
Alliance for the Rights of OlderPeople.
I spoke with the PasadenaNetwork, we looked into their
work and I said, hey, we need tobe part of this.
First, I started as a studentgroup in 2020, and I became the
chair in 2023 to 2024.
And right now, I'm theimmediate past chair.
(05:30):
So I think taking away from allthis is that, on the ground,
every day we're not exposed tohuman rights of older persons,
but once we learn the power ofit, there's really an
opportunity for a great change,transformative change, not just
for the older people today andtheir lives, it's for all
generations to come, and it'sboth.
To me, the biggest thing isthat not only is it rights and
(05:52):
dignity in terms of the seriesof what we're calling, but also
the whole self-determinationpiece, be it during the good
times or bad times, that humanrights will support us to do
that.
To continue on individually.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and it's really
beautiful how you came to it.
And also, I think the realityis that we're all aging and so
one thing that is universal,absolutely universal we say that
human rights are universal andindivisible but the other thing
that's absolutely guaranteed isthat all of us are aging and, if
we're fortunate enough, we'lllive to a long and old age, and
(06:26):
so this really isn't just aconcern for older persons but
for all of us.
Right, it's partly about ourhumanity and the human family
and human rights for all.
And I guess that brings us toyou know, why have a campaign,
why have this initiative, thiskind of awareness raising
initiative?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and I think you said it so aptly when you say
that you know it's awarenesseffort that we want to make
through this particular projectand this work of aging with
rights and dignity.
So there's a few reasons.
The first and foremost, as yousaid, is awareness.
So, while we have an ongoingmovement already, with some very
avid advocates and we'rebringing on new people, it's not
(07:02):
widespread enough in terms ofgrassroots momentum In the
communities, in our everydaylives.
When we see the inequities thatolder people face and we see it
in the newspaper in differentways and forms, we say, hey,
we've got to make our lawsbetter, we've got to improve our
public policy, we need to havemore programs, but we don't
really think of it as, hey, thisis a human rights violation
(07:23):
that's happening here.
So with this project, what wewant to do is we bring that
light that it is a human rightsviolation and, as you said,
being part of the human family,we automatically have human
rights.
So why is it that the olderperson and the older population
do not have their rightsrecognized?
And in order to have the rightsrecognized, we need to have a
new international legalinstrument that explicitly say
(07:45):
what the standards are.
So, for example, right nowthere's nothing in human rights
standards about long-term care,palliative care, lifelong
learning.
You know all those things thatare very important to us in
older age.
Social security is another bigone.
So that's why we ask ourinterviewees to really share,
from their lens, from theircountry, either what they
experienced personally or whatthey've witnessed in their
(08:06):
country either what theyexperienced personally or what
they witnessed in their country.
What is one key human rightsgap so that, as listeners and I
was really fascinated when Ilistened to them you know what
they see and saw.
To give that human rights gaplike color and texture, so that
we can understand what ishappening, and also to overlay
that with intersectionality ofgender and different physical
and cognitive abilities, toreally show up that older
(08:29):
persons and the older populationis not homogeneous.
That's another key.
So that's a whole kind ofbuilding awareness and creating
that broader understanding ofwhat's going on and what's
needed.
So the second is really toshowcase and celebrate the
advocacy work that's underwayglobally.
So for this series, we invitedadvocates from eight different
(08:50):
countries, of different culture,economic statuses, to really
show us that, while the textureand colors would be different in
terms of whether the olderpeople are enjoying their human
rights or not enjoying theirhuman rights, but the themes are
all the same and, once again,this is why we need an
international integratedinstrument.
And also within the series,we'll hear from two younger
(09:12):
women in terms of why they'reinterested in the work of human
rights of older person.
They want to be part of thisproject.
The third and final reason isreally to invite more people to
join the movement.
Our hope is that once someonehas listened to our advocates,
they will want to reach out andfind out more, and that they
would be so impassioned withwhat was said and shared that
they would sign a globalpetition to support a UN
(09:34):
convention for the rights ofolder persons.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Well, and that brings us to the question of timing
and what's happening right nowand the full panoply of
activities and groups andcommittees talking about the
need for whether there is a needfor a, a new UN Convention on
the Rights of Older Persons.
Why now?
Why take this on at this moment?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's a great question.
I think there's broaderawareness that there is a
working group at the UnitedNations called the Open
Networking Group on Aging,tackling the issues of human
rights of older persons.
But I think what's helpful tounderstand a little bit in the
context of when older people andpopulation aging come into the
world global stage.
They started in 1982 at theWorld Assembly in Vienna.
(10:13):
So at that point in time it wasvery much a policy-based, a
program-based.
So member states got togetherand said, okay, we need to have
some guidance in terms of agingpolicy and programs.
So then there was thisinstrument called the
International Plan of Action onAging.
That was developed to reallyguide the member states when
they go back what should beconsidered in terms of
developments of programs andpolicy.
(10:34):
So that was in 1982.
There was ad hoc implementationbecause it's not binding
Binding, meaning that it's notlegally required to implement it
once agreed upon.
So to give more momentum behindit, the member states came back
in 1991 and said let's developsome guiding principles of how
we should support and treatolder people right.
(10:55):
So then there was 18 principlesthat was developed.
The document was called theUnited Nations Principles for
Older Person and basically itcovered five key areas
independence, participation,care, self-fulfillment and
dignity.
When we read it, we can startthinking, hey, maybe these are
the principles for human rightsof older persons.
Then time continued on.
In 2002, the member states cameback to the International Plan
(11:20):
of Action on Aging to see howit's developing.
So at that point this was inMadrid.
So this particular plan thenbecame the Madrid International
Plan on Aging and basically atthat point they feel that
implementation is still a bitlagging for different reasons.
So therefore they said, okay,let's have a monitoring and
reporting cycle and let's makesure that we have the lens of
(11:40):
social economic development andhuman rights in it.
So this is the first time thathuman rights is brought to the
forefront in terms of the olderperson.
Fast forward to 2010,.
That's when the GeneralAssembly adopted a resolution to
establish the Open EndedWorking Group on Aging, and this
group's mandate is really tolook at and consider existing
instruments, internationalinstruments on human rights of
(12:01):
older persons and then identifywhether or not there are any
gaps and, if there are gaps,what to do about them, including
whether or not to have moreinstruments on human rights of
older person.
So this is quite a pivotaldevelopment because up until
then, there wasn't really aspecific focus purely on human
rights of older person.
So hooray that we have that.
And then, secondly, within thisworking group, not only is it
(12:22):
the UN member states, the UNagency civil society meaning
older persons States, a UNagency civil society meaning
older persons, ngos, everybodyelse get a chance to participate
, as well as National HumanRights Institution, which is a
not common practice.
I think the group, when theystarted, was really excited and
then the work continued.
We do hear the comment whathappened over 14 years and
what's the result of 14 years ofwork?
(12:44):
Because the open-ended workinggroup went from 2011 to 2024.
And along the way, the Officeof the High Commissioner of
Human Rights at the UN publishedseveral reports about what's
the frameworks that exist todayand basically they found that
existing frameworks arefragmented and that they are
insufficient in protecting thehuman rights of older person and
(13:06):
that a new international humanrights framework or instrument
is needed in order to promoteand protect the rights of older
people.
So, just as the establishmentof the working group was very
pivotal in 2011, the recentsession the 14th session in May
2024, was equally, if not more,pivotal Because, based on the
(13:26):
work of the 14 years.
The member states actuallyreached a decision and the
decision acknowledged that thereare possible gaps on the human
rights of older person and thatthey also recommended a
non-exclusive list of 11 optionsof what to do about it.
And the first option that'slisted if I remember right, the
first option is actually aninternational, legally binding
(13:49):
human rights instrument, whichis what we call UN Convention.
So this is really pivotalbecause it's actually
acknowledgement that there areissues and that one of the
possible solutions would be theUN Convention.
So this particular decision wasthen presented to the President
of the General Assembly andthere was a meeting about it in
August 2024 at the GeneralAssembly.
(14:10):
So after the deliberation on thedecision, there were like three
key points that was arrived at.
So first is that the open-endedworking group has completed its
mandate.
So that's great, we celebratedcompleted its mandate.
So second is that all relevantUN agencies are urged to look at
this decision that's put forthby the working group and, of
course, the UN agency that hasthe most relevant mandate is the
(14:31):
Human Rights Council.
So while it doesn't explicitlysay Human Rights Council, that's
a relevant UN agency.
So that's another yay for us,because that's where we want the
work to continue.
And the third thing was thatthe General Assembly will hold a
high-level meeting in 2025 tolook at the decision more
closely and its recommendationand kind of figure out the next
steps.
It might not be as explicit interms of some of the support we
(14:53):
wanted relative to theconvention, but it was a very
strong way forward.
So for me personally, afterAugust there is an opportunity
to celebrate.
We need to kind of move forwardin a confident and yet not
complacent way.
We are confident because,through the efforts of civil
society, national human rightsinstitutions, as well as
supporting member states, weactually brought the UN
(15:14):
Convention as an option on thetable.
And we cannot be complacentbecause now it's when the hard
work really needs to reallycontinue and push even harder
for more majority member statesupport so that we can land on
the convention and in order tohave success at the
intergovernmental negotiationsat the UN, we really need to
have strong national levelsupport, and to get that we
(15:35):
really need more people, moreactors every day, like you and
me, around us to understandwhat's happening and then to
advocate for older people'shuman rights and then to tell
the local governments and thenational governments to start
protecting the human rights ofolder person.
That is not adequate as it istoday, and it's time for UN
Convention.
(15:55):
So this is why we decided toput this project together in
time for this year's HumanRights Day in December, so that
the rights of older people wouldbe center stage, along with all
the different human rights ofdifferent population groups, so
that we bring that equalitypiece to the older population
and to bring that light to thetable.
So that's why the timing is nowfor this project.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So you've talked about how we have to double down
now and work even harder andkeep pushing, because now's the
moment where really the voiceshave to double down now and work
even harder and keep pushing,because now's the moment where
really the voices have to comefrom the national level to the
governments, to theintergovernmental discussions,
to the Human Rights Council.
So, for this particularinitiative, what are we asking
people to do?
What would be helpful?
When people are listening tothis, how can they get engaged?
(16:38):
Yeah, I think that's a greatquestion I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
You know, reach out to others who are already in the
movement to find out more, signthe petition.
But also, you know, as anindividual, if we see a systemic
human rights issue, we have theright to contact our
governments, our human rightsombudsman, people who are part
of our human rights commissionin our country and say, hey,
this is not right, this is ahuman rights violation, because
(17:07):
the power is really in thepeople, in you and me.
So an example of this isearlier this year in Switzerland
, a group of older women who areclimate activists actually won
a court case at the EuropeanHuman Rights Court against the
Swiss government.
The Swiss government was notfollowing some of the
initiatives or the standardsaround carbon emissions and
helping to combat climate changeand for the older population,
as we know, climate change andthe heat wave, the weather,
(17:29):
provide greater risk for olderpeople, especially isolated
older people.
So you know, the case wasreally underpinned by the fact
that older people's lives wereat risk.
So they actually won the caseand it's the power in the
everyday person that made thathappen.
So, secondly, if you are anonprofit, you are doing strong
advocacy every day in terms ofpolicies with your local
(17:50):
governments or national federalgovernments.
What we need to do isincorporate the human rights
lens in there to strengthen thearguments for what we want, and
also to work with others as acoalition to strengthen our
voice.
Thirdly, if you're a serviceprovider or a program provider
for older people, reallyincorporate a human rights-based
approach in terms of thedevelopment and design of your
(18:13):
services or your programs, andwhat I mean by that is to really
engage older persons for theirinput when developing what it is
that's needed and to make surethat there is not a
discrimination based on age orage-biased beliefs.
And then, finally, we can allbe a catalyst of change and help
spread the word.
So in this project, we have asmall but mighty team in you and
(18:33):
Lana, Kira and Faith and myself, and what we did was really,
really just.
Our job was to help spread theword, and we created a stage for
eight advocates to share theirwork and for some of them, it's
actually the life work inpromoting the human rights of
all the person and toward the UNConvention For us all,
spreading the words as easy asforwarding on the global
petition or one or all thosepodcast series that resonated
(18:56):
with you.
The power is really in you andme.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
That's a beautiful note to end on, margaret.
Thank you so so much, and thankyou for the opportunity to be
involved in this.
It's been absolutely wonderfuland I encourage everyone to
listen to the conversations.
The advocates are trulyinspiring.
There are people who are justlike us, who have the passion
for human rights and the humanrights for other people in
particular.
So thank you so much for theopportunity, margaret, and thank
(19:19):
you for dreaming this up anddreaming it into being.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, thank you, alana.
It's really been a fantastic,incredible journey working on
the project together with oureight fantastic advocates in
Catherine, fidushi, frances,jane, maura, nina, teresa and
Vijay, and a tirelesschampionship.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
This is really how it works creating a collective and
creating momentum.
So thank you.
Thank you, alana.
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