Daniel Chabon Editor Of The Dark Horse New Wave

Powers. Black Hammer Minor Threats, and more. Dark Horse Comics editor Daniel Chabon joins the show for an in-depth conversation about shaping creator-driven comics in today’s industry. Daniel breaks down the editor’s role behind the scenes, from developing pitches and guiding visual storytelling to balancing creator vision with long-term publishing strategy.

We talk about Dark Horse’s approach to original series, working with both established voices and emerging talent, and how the publisher continues to evolve in a changing comics landscape. Daniel also shares insights into collaboration, deadlines, and what makes a project stand out when it lands on an editor’s desk.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everybody, Welcome back. It's Word Balloon the Comic Book
Conversation show. John Sentries here. Really great talk today that
I had with Daniel Shabon. Daniel Shabon, a fantastic editor
over at dark Horse, has been at the company almost
twenty years now and has been supervising and project managing
a lot of big books, things like My Management and
other things from Matt Kent, and also a lot of

(00:23):
Brian Vennis projects and Tom King and also Jeff Lemir
and Kelly sud Comic and some others as well. We
talk about those books in more a fantastic conversation and
kind of gives us an idea of what he's currently
working on, his editorial philosophy, dark Horse's philosophy, as far
as where they are in the comic book world right now.

(00:44):
All that and more in a great conversation with Daniel
Shabon on Today's Word Balloon.

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Speaker 3 (02:19):
Every month.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Patreon dot com slash word Balloon as always, thank you
for your support. League of word Balloon listeners. Good afternoon, everybody,
Happy New Year. Welcome to word Balloon, the Comic book
Conversation Show. John Sutris with you on a Wednesday afternoon
and happy to talk to you for the first time.
Daniel Chabon, the great editor of dark Horse Comics and
other projects outside of dark Horse. But really nice to

(02:42):
meet you, Daniel. Welcome to word Balloon.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Thank you so much. It's great to meet you.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
John, longtime fan man. I always there are editors that
I really appreciate their eye when it comes to a project.
You and I were talking about Will Dennis off the
Air Axel Alonzo is in that group. Warren Simons. I'm
a big fan of what Warren is done. Mark Panicia,
so it's great to Helen, or rather Helen Heather Antos

(03:05):
over at IDW and the stuff she did at Marvel
and stuff. So yeah, it's always interesting getting that editor
perspective and stuff. But let me let's go back to
the beginning, like what got you into reading comics.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's a good question. So I come from a family
of really big readers. My dad always bought books every
week from Borders and Barnes and Nobles, and he would
always get me a new book every week when I
was a kid, and he would always take me to
comic book shops every week when I was a kid.

(03:38):
He was just always buying books for us. And at
that time, you know, I told you I lived in
Kansas City before, but we moved around a lot, so
I also lived in Washington, d C. For a long time.
We slowly made our way from the East coast to
the west coast. But when we lived in Washington, d C.
It really felt like there was comic conventions every week,
and my dad would be buying me comic books and

(04:00):
I wasn't censored. I was the last of four boys,
and so the books that my dad was buying me
the earliest back I can remember, were the ec comics,
so he was buying me Tales from the Crypt and Baltimore,
and I think at that time too, the old school
HBO Tales from the Crypt show was on at that point,
and I think I was watching those two, okay, but

(04:22):
my dad was buying me those comic books. There were
reprint single issues. I think those were Gemstone Publishing those.
I can't remember now, that's right, but I was reading those.
I was loving them because kids want to read what
adults are reading, and that's what I wanted to read.
I wanted to read stuff that was weird and mature
and unusual, and those short stories and those were really

(04:43):
easy for me to grasp as a kid, and they
always had the fun twists at the end. So that's
where I kind of my first memories of reading in
general were some of those, more than say like a
Doctor Seuss or something. And then I was reading a
lot of pros at the same time, so my dad
was the one just buying me all those those books
and comics to kind of really get me into into reading.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
So that's cool, man. That's interesting though, because the art
is so alarming and easy, the violence and whatever, but
really like those are like hard artists that are kind
of if you if you really don't appreciate them, you
can almost go, oh man, that's too ugly for me
to yeah, to get into. But that's cool that it

(05:28):
appealed to you.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, it's funny. Didn't I don't remember it scaring me
so much as it just kind of piqued my curiosity.
Like I remember as a kid, those scary stories to
tell in the dark. Those graphics and those kids books
were much more traumatizing, I think than the ec ones.
There's just something about the twists at the end that
really kind of caught my interest, that kind of like

(05:50):
Twilight Zone feel to them. Absolutely, those were really interesting
to me. And then from there I kind of graduated
to more Spider Man and a lot of Batman and Superman.
And then eventually that evolved as I was getting to
be more mature into the early vertigo comics.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So okay, and you know, it's funny. I heard an
interview that you did a while ago and you mentioned
how much you loved Evan Dorkin and Milk and Cheese. Again,
that's cool. Yeah, So, like, where when did the indie
book appeal happen for you?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Gosh? Probably middle school or high school. It's funny because
I so I've been a dark Horse for over fifteen
years now, and with the folks i'm working with, some
of them I was reading in high school, so, like
you know, working on the Powers relaunch is really funny,
really interesting. But some of those books I was picking

(06:45):
up when I was a high schooler, and Milk and
Cheese was one of my favorite comics I had all
the single issues was when I was younger, and yeah,
so I think I was probably a middle schooler that
point when my dad was buying me those and there
was just something about the art and the humor that

(07:07):
really caught my eye, and and it was just different.
There's there's nothing else in the market like what Evan
does so and just the anarchy of those two characters.
So those were really interesting to me, and I was
picking that up. And then a lot of Daniel Clouds
at the same time too, and Chris Ware and things

(07:28):
like that. So yeah, so from from Batman to Superman,
I think a lot of the indie comics were starting
to come my way, the stuff by the Hernandez brothers,
all that stuff, all good stuff. So I was really
anything that was put in front of me. I was reading. So,
I mean, we had so many book sales when I

(07:49):
was a kid, and I slept in our basement, but
it was like a finish basement and it was just
a big library of books. And so some days where
I was born, I would just kind of wander around
and just look for a new book, and there was
always a new book because there were so many books
down there. And we had quite a large comic collection too.
My dad was an old school New Yorker who was

(08:11):
born in nineteen thirty eight.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
He was a huge collector. He collected everything possible. He
had serial rings, comic cards, sports and non sports cards.
He had everything. He had the horrors of war cards
and Mars attacks and gosh, if you name it, he
had it. He had a lot of autographs. I remember
at one point he had Napoleon's autograph. Oh my god. Yeah,

(08:36):
it was interesting. So but he the one thing he
really shared with me was our comic book collection, and
we really focused on first appearances and first issues and
things like that. So we had a lot of really
good things together. But that's how I was reading stuff
at the same time. And I was reading a lot
of the stuff we were collecting. You know, I don't

(08:57):
think there was cgcing stuff at that point point, Like
we what you were collecting, you just put in a
plastic bag and kept in a box, so uh you
could still read what you were trying to keep in
good condition at the same time. So that was kind
of nice.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
I appreciate that. I know. That's how I feel about
my books. I was so happy with I forget who
created that clamshell protector that you could open up and
read and then put it back in.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
And say, yeah, books are meant to be read.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, man's slabbing. It's like, but but I want to
I want to look at that Aurora model ad, you know,
or that Hobby's Corner kind of DC Sha killer thing
that they used to put in the sixties and stuff,
super turtle things.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Like that your basement might flood and then you wish
you had it slapped too.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
So yeah, I respect that absolutely. Hey there we go,
some okie dude. A nice compliment for you, Daniel. He says,
he's like the Karen Burker generation.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's funny. That's really nice. Uh, thank you very much.
I Uh, yes, it's weird being an editor and because
sometimes I don't know if I hear it from other editors,
but I at least feel it myself, like an imposter
syndrome thing, because like being an editor, and I'm sure
we'll go over how it works. On my side, there's
a lot of project managing, but like at the same time,

(10:15):
like you have a body of work and you look back,
but also like you're not drawing the books, you're not
writing the books or anything, so sometimes you are making
the books with people, but at the same time you're
kind of like, whoa, what are my skills?

Speaker 1 (10:26):
So well did you want to write? I know writing
is in your family. Yes, we all know your brother Michael,
but really, like you know, so what led you from
writing to editing?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
So so yeah, so Michael is my oldest brother. We
have the same father, which is probably why literature and
reading and writing is so important in our family. And
we always really worked really hard in my family. My
dad was a doctor and a lawyer. My mom was
a speech pathologist and a teacher and currently is working

(11:02):
in admin at Portland State University here and kind of
helped the comics program Wonderful get on its feet over
at Portland State.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, Brian Brian and Brandon Dave Walker. I know we're
teaching there. Yeah, I don't know if there are others,
but yeah, I definitely.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
There's a bunch. Yeah. And and so I was the
last of four boys, and all of us worked really hard,
and I didn't really know what to do with my life.
When I was in my twenties, I was an English major.
I went to a small Jesuit college in Kansas City,
and I'd been in Kansas City for a long time

(11:38):
and was trying to figure out what to do. I
was writing, I had written some short stories, I'd written
a screenplay, and I even had my Rushmore Max Fisher
moment where I wrote a play that was performed at
that college. So that was kind of cool. But even
then I felt kind of uncomfortable with my own writing
and even at being performed, Like I don't I don't

(12:01):
really like to put my own work out there. There's
just something weird about me with that. So while I
while I did do all that, I moved here and
I ended up getting a master's degree in writing from
Portland State University. And at the same time, I was

(12:24):
starting to talk to folks at dark Horse Comics about
a potential internship there. I knew about dark Horse Comics
for a long time. I bought dark Horse comics. I
was reading dark Horse Presents. The Mask actually was one
of my favorite comics as a kid as well. Definitely
a comic you probably want to think would be great

(12:44):
for kids because it's so bloody and violent, but as
a kid, that's what I liked to read, and I
have a lot of fond memories on that book and
the film. So I was trying to to get a
job at dark Horse and at Portland State University in

(13:04):
that it was a writing and book publishing program, so
they taught editing and writing and marketing and printing. So
I was learning about all the different aspects of what
it takes to make a book. That program was called Ooligan.
It was really a great program. It's still there. And

(13:26):
as I always taking those different classes, the one class
that I was really gravitate towards it gravitating towards the
most was the editorial classes. And there was something kind
of appealing to me about, well, if you're uncomfortable being
a writer or doing creative writing, the idea of working
with writers and that started to stick more and to

(13:47):
feel right. And then that's where you know, I haven't
necessarily given up writing completely, but I think my own
creativity is more It feels more right working with the
creative I suppose then to do my own thing. So
if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
It does.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's just me a moment to kind of like express
myself with them and never like like a tyrannical editor
or anything like. I never make anybody do anything that
comes to my mind. But you know, I have thoughts
about story and writing and things like that, and those
are my opportunities to kind of to work with writing itself,

(14:29):
as with writers and artists and be like, well this
could be kind of cool. What do you think? And
if it works for them, then it shows up in the.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Book understood well also, you know, because again you've got
this great list of writers and artists that you have
worked with. I would ask about specifically here, like a
book like Minor Threats. You got Jordan Blohm and Patton Oswald,
who are you know? Obviously Patton's big stand up writer,

(14:57):
television writers and with Jordan's so how well do they
do their ideas? I know they've written stuff for Marvel
as well, But do you have to help them kind
of get into the language of comic book writing compared
to the other writing that they've done.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Not really. That one is pretty clean because they had
actually written some comic books before, and a screenplay and
a comic book script share a lot of similarities, so
so those those comic book scripts don't really need too

(15:33):
much work. The dialogue is pretty clean, the story is
already there. There's notes given every here or there for
for certain beats, but that's a pretty smooth ship. That
whole program of the mind.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Are there have there been writers that have come from
other celebrity circles or notoriety circles that you've done well
certainly market that would That's.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
What I was going to say that book. She was
a delight to work with.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Genius. Yeah, that must first of all that how was that?
Because I would have to say I'd be a little
intimidated knowing that I'm Margaret Atwood.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
That one's a funny one because there's a for when
there's an age difference. I mean, she'd been writing much
longer before I was born, sure, and it's it's yeah,
I mean she's the teacher, not me. But she had
never written comic books before, and at that point, I

(16:32):
think I had at least ten years experience working as
an editor in comic books at first when that project
got presented to me, and it was brought to dark
Horse through this editor, Hope Nicholson, who's a Canadian editor,
and she had reached out to me on Facebook and said, hey,
I have a project from Margaret Atwood if you're interested.

(16:53):
At first, I thought it was fake because I was
like what. And that's when like the Handmaid's Tale TV
show I think was peaking at that point too, so
like she was getting a lot of attention. But I
followed up on it and it turned out to be
real and I got put in contact with Margaret and

(17:13):
and it was a fun project. It's a different kind
of project. It's a humorous book, a lot of her
other and environmentally conscious book and an animal rights book,
but it doesn't kind of match the tone of say
A Handmaid's Tale or something like that, or some of
her other science fiction. But it was a good book

(17:33):
and a lot of fun to work on. But she
did need some help in the comic book script portion
of it. She'd been used to writing prose and it's
been a while so I don't exactly remember what those
scripts look like. But as she was turning in scripts,
that's where it became clear, like, oh, she does need
help working on this because like it needs to be

(17:55):
in some sort of a format that communicates to an artist,
needs to be drawn, and in some elements didn't really
show exactly how a panel was broken down or what
needs to go in every panel. That book had some
annotations to it, so what was that going to look like?
So working And the other interesting thing too, is that

(18:17):
you see a lot of these books that have celebrities
attached to them. I mean, it's been going on forever.
They're not always writing the scripts. In that case, she
was one hundred percent writing the script. She was writing,
and there were graphic novels, so in my memory, she
was writing each. We did at least three of them,
and she was writing them in their entirety, so about
eighty page scripts that she was turning into me and

(18:39):
I was giving notes on. So in that case, I
was really just trying to get her to revise it
where possible, to kind of help it make to make
it clear for an artist on what to draw, and
to help the story where I could as well. But
it's definitely weird to try to give notes to someone
like that who's taught writing and has written clearly some

(19:03):
of the biggest books of all time in literature and
is still writing some great works. And one of the
most awkward things I remember having to do was interviewing her.
It was awkward in that trying to prepare for it
because I agreed to it, and then for a few

(19:24):
solid months I was freaking out. I'm like, oh my gosh,
I have to interview Margaret Atwood on stage in front
of a bunch of people. How's that gonna go? But
she was always super nice and great to work with
and has a razor sharp sense of humor. And her
humor is really interesting because she's just very serious and
she looks at you in a very serious way, but
she has this kind of low key humor to it.

(19:49):
So she was teasing me a lot, just because I
always look kind of young, so she I think she
referred to me as like in an introduction in one
of the books, as her sixteen year old looking editor
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Is your is your interview on stage? Did someone record?

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, he's on stage?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Did you? Was it like is it on YouTube or
anything like that.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Oh gosh, I don't know. I haven't looked for it.
It might be somewhere.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well I got a l a.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Uh well sure, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, dude. Honestly my favorite like event to go to,
and I only go when it comes to Chicago. I
think it's coming this summer back to Chicago. But I
agdore that. I think that's interesting. You know that one.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
It is a good one, and you get a lot
of really interesting people at those events. The was either
that one or there was another one, maybe at San Diego.
I think it was San Diego where we were doing
the early promotion for that book, and uh, we ended
up going to some event. It was me and Margaret

(20:55):
and the artist Johnny Christmas.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Johnny.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
I love Johnny. Yeah, he's good.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
I've had him on the show. He's great.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
He So we we went to some like fancy dinner
where we were there to kind of talk to book
buyers about the book. And I remember Margaret showed up
and Johnny and I were talking. It was right right
at the beginning, and she had a huge smile on
her face, and Johnny and I kind of looked at

(21:24):
each other like, oh, what's going on here? And she's like,
I got you to a present and we were like,
what is it? And she pulled out cat ears and
a tale and she's like, we're all going to dress
up as cats at this party. And we're like, okay,
because you don't really say no to her. Here's a
photo of us. I can send it to you later

(21:46):
of us wearing cat ears, please do. And there's all
these people like wearing suits and like drinking red wine
and we're just there dressed as cats.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
So outstanding. No, no, what a great opportunity to really
like be in that literary world. And forgive me if
you've done it with other creatives, but you know that's
and dude, I am so old school. Like I loved
when that that era when and I and I cut
the tail end of it, when you'd be taking the
subway home or the bus and everyone's head is buried

(22:19):
in the newspaper. Yes, And then when they had evening editions,
and it was so I really feel and again old
man yelling at clouds here, but that we were a
much more literate society, and that there were more reading,
there was more reading going on, and I just like
the Mailers and the Plimpton's and all these interesting you know, Gorfadal,
all these interesting literary figures. Lillian Hellman to throw a

(22:42):
woman in there that I truly respected, and Margaret of
course herself, so that must have been cool, like kind
of picking into that world.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
It was super cool. Yeah, And I met some of
those folks too, from Michael's bubble as well. Okay, as
he was because he was just when I was. There's
like a twenty year age gap between us. Interesting, okay,
but as he was starting to get a little bit bigger,

(23:10):
I was a kid. But getting to meet some of
those writers and historical as well, so that was really
cool because there was there was that temptation, as we
were talking about earlier, of just myself going down in
the pros direction just because I liked it so much.
But I also felt like the Shavens don't necessarily need
another writer. And also his writing is just a million
times better than my writing. I just can't match that.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I respect that, but you know, hey, man, the Van
Dorns certainly had room for more than one writer and
their family, and that's true. Yeah, but also so like
what what does and really I want to talk about
you man, But what does Michael think of what you're
doing and everything? Because I know Michael obviously big comic
book fan. Written. Yeah, no, he's very and everything.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, from talking with him about it in the past,
he's always said I was the best recommendation he ever made.
So that was kind of nice because he recommended me
when I moved here.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
To Diana Shuttz wonderful.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
I think that was one of the first introductions I
had with a local editor, and she had edited him
on the escapist comics that dark Horse had published. Yep,
that was one of my first kind of ends to
getting through the door here. Okay, And I can go

(24:26):
into more detail too about how I got over to
dark Horse too, if.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
You do, yes that no, absolutely, that is what I
want to hear, so please.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So that happened. I was just wrapping up some of
my education at Portland State and then Diana had interviewed me,
and some other editors had interviewed me. It took a
couple of months to get any kind of position there,
just because it was really just a matter of a

(24:54):
seat opening up, Like I think they were just at
capacity in the editorial department at that point. Sure, and
then eventually a seat did open up. I had a
final interview at the Hollywood Theater in Portland, Oregon during
the HB Lovecraft Film Festival, and I remember Mike Minyola

(25:15):
was there and that was cool, and I think that
was the first time I ever talked to Mike Manyola,
and I passed the interview. I got an internship, and
the first couple of books I was working on were
those Manuola Verse books. I worked on those for years
as an assistant for probably like six six years or

(25:38):
maybe longer. Is that work Guy Alley, Yeah, and I
worked on those from the end of the Guy Davis period.
So I worked on one series before King of Fear.
I don't know if I remember the name of it.
And then it went from Guy Davis as kind of
the exclusive artist on that line to opening up to

(26:00):
a bunch of different artists. That's when I think Tyler
Cook came in, who became one of my good friends.
And James Herron, that was some of his early work
was on those. We hired him and a lot of
other great people, and I got to work with John Racoodi,
which was really cool because I was such a big
fan of his work, and he even moved to Portland

(26:21):
a couple of years ago. But he wrote those early
masks I liked a lot, but also wrote a lot
of other really wonderful books, So it was really cool
to be working with him and with Guy and all
those other great artists that we hired. And that was
my first taste of working on Creator on Comics too,
which is what I pretty much entirely work on right now.

(26:45):
And I've done some license books here and there, done
some manga, I've done some art books, some prose books.
Creator Own Comics is really where my heart lies, because
I feel like that's where the most creativity is in
this industry. It's a lot of fun, and you can
do a lot of fun stuff with license stuff too,
but it is more limiting. Sure, it's not like it

(27:07):
was I feel like back in maybe the nineties. Like
my favorite license book is Bill and Ted by Evan Dorkin.
I don't think you could necessarily do a license book
like that anymore, just because it's so wild, and licensers
tend to be a little more bossy these days or
so close to cannon. But I like it where you

(27:30):
can just have a license and do whatever you want
with it and just have fun with you. But that's
where a creator own I think kind of works is.
You know, everyone's just there to make a good book
and have a good time. So after working on the
Hellboy books, I kind of focused on doing creat your
own books just for the entirety of my workload. And

(27:52):
at the same time, I went a little crazy during
the end of working on the hell Boy stuff and
decided to go to a school at the same time
as working full time at dark Horse. So my days
for about four years of that time were eight thirty
to four thirty at dark Horse and then our drive

(28:13):
over to Lewis and Clark Law and take about two
to three classes from five pm to about nine thirty,
and then I would go home and read one hundred
pages a night and then wash, rinse, and repeat. And
that was insane and the craziest thing ever, but I
got through it. Also I ended up with a lot

(28:34):
of degree at the end.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Was that to help you in your editorial like what
were you planning? And using your degree for your law degree?

Speaker 3 (28:43):
So it was a lot of different things in some ways. Yes,
I primarily focus on contract law and publishing. So once
I was there, it really became clear that it was
going to help me and what I currently do.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
At the same time, you know, my parents had always
really wanted me to go to law school. Like I said,
I have a family that really pushes for working hard
and education, and so that was always kind of in
the back. And once I got in, I so oddly
casually said all right, I'll give it a shot. And
then I got to the end of it, I'm like, well,

(29:18):
I guess I did that, but I don't ever want
to do that again. Because I had a sense of
what law school was going to be like, and I
knew what the paper Chase was. I just, you know,
after working a full day at dark Horse and then
going there and having to do the Socratic method, it's
not fun.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
So I love the Paper Chase.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Mister. Yeah, yeah, Fox sat somewhere here.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
There you go. No, seriously, I know, that's one of
my favorite. I was so happy with Showtime brought it back.
As you know, I'm in college. I'm like, oh, I
really loved that show. I'm so glad because that one
season on CBS and then like three or four years later, Hey,
guess what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, he's a great show so on that once I
graduated from there, I was ready to be done with it.
And I still really loved comic books and I felt
like I was good at it, and I was already
having a lot of good relationships, and I just wanted
to stay in it. So I didn't take the bar.

(30:20):
I finished, and I stayed in this industry. And how
long ago was that now, I can't remember when I
graduated off the top of my head, but but it
wasn't a waste in that, you know, it really changes
your brain when you go there, or at least it
did to mine, And it really feels like some kind

(30:41):
of military school for the mind, like like law school
isn't teaching you to just talk in a courtroom, like
you're just reading short stories. So again, it's just felt
like an extension of an English degree. You're just having
to articulate it a lot more in front of a
classroom and being picked on at the same time. So

(31:05):
I really focused on comic books there and contracts, and
my thesis was on Jack Kirby because at that time,
I think the Kirby family was trying to get the
characters back, and it ended in a settlement but I
was really focused on a particular aspect of the law
that might have allowed them to get it back. I

(31:28):
can't remember it off the top of my head, but
I wrote a long paper about it. So I took
my law degree and stayed in comics. But you know,
we have in a house attorney at dark Horse. He
also went to the same law school, but I don't
really need to rely on him too much for making
contracts and when working with creators. If they have any questions,

(31:50):
I can answer stuff right away. Dark Horse contracts are
pretty easy. They're only three pages long, and really, in
the end, you know, contracts aren't too difficult if you
really just sit down and read it what it says,
if you think that's what it says, most of the time,
that is what it says. So so it has helped

(32:12):
me with trying to help creators understand what's being offered.
I think our contracts tend to be really fair, and
it helps me work with other agents and lawyers too.
I feel like I have a lot of good relationships,
you know, Like Brian has a lawyer who's very friendly.
I've gone and actually talked in front of his firm.

(32:35):
It was on like a zoom, but they were curious
about what it is to have a law degree or
some legal experience and work in comic book publishing, just
because they have a lot of clients there who are
in comic books. So yeah, I do feel like it's helped.
I mean, the only thing that kind of sucks is

(32:56):
it had a lot of debt attached to it.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
But you know, well that's just I didn't finish my
loans until I was in my very late thirties, so
I totally can relate. Yeah, I so feel for today's
students college with six figure debt and everything, and say,
are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
My god, yeah lost it. I think at the end
it was one hundred and sixty thousand dollars, so that's
like half my mortgage left exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Sorry, man, no, believe me. I respect that. It's it's
it's rough. It's rough about that. Tell it was worth it.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean it really changed the way how I
think about things.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, No, that's wonderful, And truly I can appre and
especially from an organizational standpoint, because they do understand you
are a project manager in a lot of ways, and
in fact, I know others that have sadly left comics,
and they're like, oh, you know, I never really looked
at it that way, but I guess I can't. This
is what I do, and they're applying those skills to
you know, the real work not the real work force,

(33:53):
you know what I mean, you know the people that
have those nine to five jobs and everything and aren't
worried about getting a dead line for a magazine for example.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Totally. Yeah. I go to Brian's classes Wow Portland State
to just kind of give a guest lecture, and I
always use at the beginning of the presentation this image
I found and I can send it to you later
that jose Vilarubia posts on Instagram one day and I
work with him too. I don't know if he knows

(34:23):
that I use it. But it's like the circle that
shows what an editor does, because it's one of the
hardest things to explain, and it just has all these
different terms around it, like friend, colleague, mentor project manager.
There's just like fifty different words and they all feel
right because like it isn't just like one thing. You

(34:44):
have to be a lot of different things, and you
have to be very flexible. Sure, and one of the
qualities that I try to bring as an editor is
to try to get back to people right away. It
might sound kind of small, but I feel like it
means a lot to a lot of people. So some
of the is my own just trying to help. But
at the same time, I'm also like an inbox zero guy,

(35:05):
so like I have to get back to people right
away because I also can't let my inbox get like
above fifty otherwise I freak out. So I and my
email gets crazy. Like I'm working through the holidays, but
like if I if I take a vacation, I have
to check email because if I don't, they'll be like
three hundred emails a day and just we'll stack up.

(35:27):
So I just have to keep books moving and I
have to get back to people. It's just in my nature.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
How many how many books are you currently editing that
are that are active right now?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
So there is a power. There's a list of editors
a dark horse and how many books they work on.
I think my average for the last couple of years
is always about two hundred active projects. I think the
average hold.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
On, hold on only yeah, a year or what are
we talking about? Man, that's a year now?

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Okay, fair. That also includes single issues and then some
collections and art books. And I think the average editor
tends to do around twenty or thirty at dark Horse
at least a year or a month.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Again, one number a year, and you do you do
two hundred a year?

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yes, God damn. Yeah. I like to be busy, so okay,
I get that's well. I get restless too, So there
are dry spots where I'm just like, oh, I'm not
doing enough.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
So interesting, Well, how because again, as you said, you
work them out with creator own stuff. I want to
talk about relationships with Bendits and and and Jeff Lamir,
two of my favorite guys you know, but u and
also of course Homing and Chitan as well with the
you guys did the Blue Book right then, the.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Blue Book and the Red Book is coming out right now.
And yes, Christopher, chaos is still happening and we had
to let this one be a devil. And there's more
of those cryptid projects as well.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Coming cool what but so have you have you approached
creators with hey, do you have anything for us, any
sort of recruiting or or or is it more the
creators coming to dark Horse and you're being assigned. How
how does it work in terms of that initial contact,

(37:25):
And I'm sure there's different ways, but you know, yeah,
tell me what you do.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, it's both. I think recently I haven't done as
much recruiting. Folks sometimes just kind of come to me.
And sometimes it's nice because when I feel those dry
spots are I'm just kind of like I'm bored. I
need something new. Then a creator shows up and like, hey,
I want to bring these books to dark Hors. I'm like, oh,

(37:48):
just in time, I was getting bored. But yeah, sometimes
I do go after folks as well. I'm trying to
remember the last creator that I reached out to cold
to see if they wanted to pitch the dark Horse.
I don't know if I can remember off the top
of my head, but there is kind of a mix.

(38:12):
If I do go after a creator, a lot of
it's still on email. I've hardly hired anyone after meeting
them at a convention. I've done that for sure, but
like a lot of it is just me approaching someone
who I'm interested in. Usually it's because I've read their
books or a friend had recommended them to me, and

(38:35):
I'll just do like a cold email and like, hey,
I'm a big fan of your work. If you're ever
interested in pitching, the dark Horse would love to have
you here, and usually that would be for a creator
owned project. Do you have.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Time to look at some of the new people that
might be online they might be doing web comments to
tap us or web tins or something like that, or
do you go through artists sally?

Speaker 3 (38:59):
And you know, yeah, I always do both. I follow
a lot of folks on Instagram. If I think something
looks interesting, I'll give it a follow right away. I'll
try to follow folks who follow me just to kind
of help build community. And then yeah, artist's Sally, I
always try to take a peek at who's there, either

(39:21):
just say hi to friends or colleagues, and then also
see if there's any new faces. So yeah, it is
kind of a mix on how to bring different creators
over to us. So and then like, if there's a
writer who I'm working with, then they have a script
and not an artist. You know, reading the story sometimes
kind of gives you a pool in your mind of

(39:42):
like different people who might be good for it, whether
or not that's like an established person or someone whose
art you've seen like email to you or an artists ali,
it starts to give you ideas when you start to
read the story, who might be appropriate.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
So has has dark Horse's philosophy of what they want
want to publish changed in any way since you started there?
I you know, I seem to remember almost like with
the I mean helpoay, you know, I guess you can
call them a superhero technically in terms of the way
that the stories are plotted in that, but it seemed

(40:16):
like there was a moment where all, let's do superheroes,
and then in the aughts, in the in the naughties
is how I just call it, and then there wasn't
And now with things like minor Threats, Powers, some of
the other hero books that dark Horse does, I'm just
Blackhammer a great example. You know, there's clearly a different
spin than what DC and Marvel are churning out every month,

(40:37):
But just in general, is there a again the dark Horse
philosophy of what they want to publish?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
That's interesting because I feel like the dark Horse philosophy
sometimes is letting the editors do what they want to do.
Because the ones that you name, like powers and minor
Threats and even Black Camera like those are ones that
I just worked on myself. Yeah, other ones like I
know that Mike Richardson had brought in someone's that were

(41:04):
like Captain Midnight.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Right when Josh was doing Captain Midnight.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Absolutely and that yeah it was he had like Skyman.
I think at one point there was a I only
did one of those. I did one and I did
that one. I did one voluntarily just for fun. The
occultist that was Tim Seely and Mike Norton. That's great,
Oh yeah, Chicago, that's right. Yeah, they're great. And uh I.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Remember Kelly didn't Kelly Sey like the Ghost or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
She did, Yes, that was a cool book from Patrick
edited that one and Phil Noto was the artist. So
that was a cool team together jesus, you know. Yeah.
But yeah, the other ones, like I guess that's kind
of the thing about dark Horse is that Mike kind
of empowers each editor to kind of carry out their
own personal vision and so and so yea on my

(42:00):
line is this this creater own line, And it's a
mix of I mean, there is superhero stuff like Blackhammer,
although I black Hammer is for sure a superhero comic,
but it almost isn't either it's it's like a dramatic comedy,
uh to that it feels even more in that direction.
It's just this cool rural melancholy series. Uh and uh

(42:23):
minor threats. Yeah, that one's kind of a big homage
to a lot of different things. Sure, and but also
like I've had kind of a big mix of of
other books, you know, Tom King stuff over here as
well as kind of mixing into like fantasy.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah. Yeah, there's romance comic that you ever Lasting the well,
that's great and I love Elsa, my god, she what
a wonderful artist. And truly that seemed to drop out
of the sky. When did you guys do November?

Speaker 3 (42:58):
The fraction that one's image? Okay, that one's great though.
I love that that's yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
No love it Lasting is amazing. I was thinking of
whatever her name was, of Wyndamore or whatever the there
you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I worked on that one.
There you go. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Sometimes I kind of because there's working on so much,
I kind of forget what I'm working on. I actually
have a list up here because how we used to
do it in the dark Horse offices before the pandemic,
which is a weird thing. To say is that our
offices we always had like on the walls, like the
active projects, So if I ever had to do an interview,
I could always just look at the wall and be like, oh, yeah,
so I'm working on that, working on that. But my

(43:40):
office is pretty bare now. We don't really do that anymore.
So in order to kind of remember what I'm working on,
I'm looking at the emails as they're coming in or
in my folders here of all the different projects. So
I have my cheat cheat in front of me.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
But yeah, it's a lot of books.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
It's a lot so from an art standpoint, because again,
you you really kind of came in from a writing standpoint.
Did it take a while for you to know what
you wanted to say or how to articulate your points
to artists and things, or even to learn what to
look for from a storytelling art standpoint?

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Yeah, I definitely did.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Who taught you?

Speaker 3 (44:21):
I knew what I liked and I knew what I
liked reading when I was growing up, and then uh,
you know, at when I was at Portland State and
just starting at dark Horse, they had the dark Horse
Library at Portland State that you could check out and
read for free. So I had already been a huge
fan of hell Boy and bpr D because my dad
was buying me those comics and he loved them. So

(44:44):
I was already just a big semi expert on that
line and familiar with it. But I was trying to
read all the stuff that I didn't know that dark
Horse was publishing, so like, I hadn't read any of
the Buffy the Vampire Slayer comics, so I read all
of them, and then I read, uh, gosh, what else?
Just anything I hadn't read before, some of the hero
the World's Grace hero stuff, and just trying to get

(45:09):
caught up. I was probably overdoing it, but through that
process I was kind of getting a sense of like
what some of the current artwork was artists being used
at dark Horse at that time. And also one thing
I always try to tell folks when hiring is to
go to a comic book store and just kind of
look at who's being hired right now, like those are

(45:32):
those are the big folks, and it always gives like
a good pool of like who to hire and and
what some of the talent kind of looks like. So
I was just kind of reading as much as I
could to kind of see like what was out there,
but trying to learn about the art. Like you know,
Diana and Scott, I think we're really good mentors at

(45:55):
that time. So I was learning about no lettering placements
things like that, and like in a lead space for balloons,
which seems like a small thing was actually a huge thing. Yeah,
you know, where to put characters and how to transcribe
kind of from a script to an actual art panel,

(46:18):
what that kind of looks like. And then the various
stages from layouts to pencils, danks to colors, like when
is it appropriate to give certain notes things like that.
You don't want to give big notes towards the lettered
color stage, otherwise you just being a jerk. So there
was a big learning curve, but you pick up on
it pretty quickly, particularly depending on the workload. If you're

(46:40):
working on a lot, you're going to learn fast. And
I think I really hit my stride too when I
was assigned I had to work on a license comic.
So some stuff does get assigned to me every now
and then, not so much anymore, but at that point
I did have more things given to me, and there
was a project I worked on called Falling Skies.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I remember that show TNT with Noah Wiley, Yeah, okay,
and I interviewed and also Mark van Heyden, one of
the came the dark Horse because oh that's yeah absolutely,
and of course he was doing you know, I remember
the mask and things like that.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Yeah, so I got to meet him. Uh, tell me
about it. We did a few graphic novels, but that
was the first license book I worked on, and maybe
it was one of my first solo books I had
to work on as an editor. And I think working
with a licenser, you know, while it might not necessarily
be my cup of tea, uh, it's good experience. You

(47:40):
get a notes, some notes you probably don't agree with,
like you're giving yourself a new boss and they're only
there for a little bit and they're not always paying attention. Uh,
but it's good. You know. It kind of teaches you
how to be a project manager, how to juggle notes,
how the night communicate those notes to writer artists, because

(48:03):
sometimes a licenser is not always saying things like emails
can sound colder than they're meant to be, so you're
you're kind of transcribing those notes into a nicer way,
being like, oh, can you clean this up a little
or hear this ground? And then also sometimes you have
to be the fighter between the creative team and the licenser,
because if a licenser is giving a note that's too
late or doesn't make any sense, you have to kind

(48:26):
of go in there and push back where you can.
So so that was really good experience because I kind
of learned those traits I think for the first time
in that experience. Okay, and there were great licensurs to
work for it too, as TNT.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah yeah, no, I like I said, hey, man, they
sent us all the Arizona for a press junket and
gave us a weekend hanging out and seeing the premiere. Yeah,
you're doing a lot of the cast and the creators.
And I had Verheidenn when he was still with Battlestar
Galactica and loved his stuff. The American one of my favorite. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, man,

(49:10):
So yeah, no, it was. It was a thrill for me.
Yeah it was. It was a lot of fun. And
that show was pretty it was a solid show. It
was a fun show.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, most of the licensers, I
feel like I got pretty Lucky tend to be great
to work with it. I just feel like my heart's
always been with Creator Own Comics.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
You also did some Alien and Predator stuff too.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Right, Yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
We did this cool, big crossover that had Aliens and
Predator and Aliens versus Predator and this all kind of
combining into one big universe. And I remember we would
have dinners where we met up with creators like Paul
Tobin was involved, cool and really sudiconic and uh, you know,

(49:53):
I think Greg Rocco was involved early on but didn't
end up writing any who else was there. Josh Williams
was a big part of that too, and it was
just one big crossover we did with all those characters.
So I worked on the Alien versus Predator portion of
that with Chris Sabella. That was a lot of fun.

(50:14):
And I worked on two other Alien books. Those were
personal projects of mine that I've been pitching for a while.
One was with James Stoko because I was always a
big fan of his work and I knew he was
an Alien fan. So I got that through and this

(50:35):
was kind of close to the end of when we
had the license, so I felt like he thought I
was able to get those through. And then one really
big one for me was an adaptation of the Alien
three screenplay by William Gibson, because that's such a cool
history of that film, because it was such a crazy filming. Yes,

(50:57):
at least five different screenplays of that that movie. There's
one that had like a Wooden Planet by Vincent Ward
that was pretty interesting, but William Gibson one was really
cool to me because I was a big fan of
his work. Oh yeah, I really liked Neuromancer a lot
and some of his other stories, And so I pitched
to Fox at that time. I don't think I don't

(51:18):
remember if Disney owned Fox at that moment. I don't
think they did.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
No, so that probably made it just a little bit easier.
And I said, hey, I'd love to do a comic
book adaptation of it because the screenplay was already out there.
And again, like screenplays can translate into comics pretty well.
And I always had been interested in films that never
got made, oh totally, and dark Horse had done one before.

(51:43):
They had done an adaptation of the Star Wars, which.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yes, I remember, well, yeah, absolutely, it was fantastic.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
It was a cool book. Yes, there might have been
one other I can't remember, but I'd always liked that
version of Alien three, and I like the idea if
I could working with William Gibson, and that would have
been post Margaret at that point, okay, And I pitched
the Fox like, Hey, I'd love to do this, but

(52:12):
I only want to do it if I can involve
William Gibson, just out of respect to him, because it's
his story, even though it's owned by Fox. Sure, and
the licenser in charge of that part of Fox at
that time was a really nice guy. I think it
was Josh Izzo, and he said, no problem. So I

(52:37):
managed to get a hold of William Gibson and he
was super nice about it, and really I just explained
it to him, like, hey, I'd love to show you
this aptation the whole way through, from beginning to end.
You might not get any kind of sense of approvals
just because it is owned by Fox, but I just
would love to have you be a part of it.

(52:59):
And he was attely on board, and so we did
that adaptation. Johnny Christmas was the artist on that. Wow, yeah,
an artist, you know, he kind of is a writer too.
In that and that, like really it was just the screenplay,
but it was Johnny adapting it. So like, if I
remember correctly, he wrote his own version of a script

(53:20):
from that screenplay and then adapted it through his artworks.
So it was really cool. I'd love to do more
stuff like.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
That, I hear you, man, No, and there are there's
some amazing screenplays floating out there, tons of Indiana Jones
ones that will never be made, you know, things like that. No,
but you know again, Benn, it's always closed me in
a like, hey, you gotta read this.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I'm like, all right, you can read them all for
free online. I know there's a lot of really fun
David Lynch ones out there.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Oh that's great, you know, I know, I know Louis
c K got canceled. But yeah, and again, you know
that's eventually hopefully, you know, societal will be kinder. But
when Lynch did those three episodes where Louis going for
David Letterman's talk show job and Rocky as going after
a TV gig.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Was watching that when I was coming out. But you
can't stream that anywhere. No, David Lynch was a part
of that.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
He's so great in that he's so it's so like
he's being David Lynch, but it is so funny and dry.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, he's a good actor. I liked him when he
was he was john Ford too, yes, scene yeah, talking
about the horizon, yes, yeah, that was last.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Year around, it was around this time, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yeah, big celebrities.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, yeah, I'm telling you no, I know, man, I'm
trying to avoid the Rob Reiner conversation. Yeah, because it
is so sad. Yeah, no, I hear you. Absolutely, So
what's on the horizon? Dan? I mean, like, what you know?
Is there any well? And also I should ask because
the scheduling of dark Horse comics is different, you got.

(55:11):
I mean, when a project is ready, it goes on
a monthly schedule, but it isn't that monthly imperative like
a DC book or a Marvel book, where hey, we
need a Superman book next month, come hell or high water,
and we got backups and things like that. It always
seems when I talk to people who have dark Horse stuff,
it's like, yeah, we're making it. It hasn't been scheduled yet.

(55:31):
We'll we'll, you know, we'll find out and when it's scheduled,
I'll let you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, how we schedule stuff, I think it's different for
every editor. I tend to schedule stuff right away as
soon as it's approved, just to get a schedule going
that I can work with folks on and to just
have a good launch month for a book, and then
as a project begins, if things are kind of slowing
down or if it looks like someone's gonna be late

(55:57):
before it's a now installed, move it back just so
I can keep my projects out on a monthly schedule. Okay,
but really I kinda I try to space out my
projects appropriately where I can, just so they're not cannibalizing
each other, particularly if they're by the same creator. You know,
I had some projects by that were really good books

(56:19):
by James Robinson in the last couple of years, and
I had four different projects approved at the same time,
and I didn't really think it made sense to have
them all released at the same time, just because if
they did, I just think there's only so much that
a retailer can order at the same time. So those
we strategically kind of placed out over about a two

(56:42):
year period. And there's no simple science to this either,
Like sometimes something comes out at the right time. Would
Saga have done as well as it had if it
came out this year? I don't know. It came out
at perfect time. It's a great book, so I would

(57:02):
assume it still would do well. But would I have
done as well? I'm not sure. And a lot of
really great books had launched like in that twenty twelve
period of creator on books, so now you kind of
have to be a little more careful about what comes
out when, so looking for good launch months.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
When we were talking about creators that maybe needed a
little bit of help of how to write within the
language of comics and stuff, was the Umbrella Academy? Was
that a challenge as far as getting it down to,
you know, what you guys needed from a comic book standpoint?

Speaker 3 (57:39):
So that one's interesting. So I didn't start with Umbrella, Okay,
I think that one started with Scott but over I
took over with the latest series. But that it does
have different challenges. So I started working with Gerard and
Gabrielle like you're one of the pandemic. So that's how

(58:00):
long we've been working on that book.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I think the gap between Dallas the second series and
Hotel Oblivion might have been like ten years, so there's
been pretty big gaps because both of them are so busy.
I mean, Gerard's on tour and Gabriel's got other books
to work on. So I started with the current series
Plan B and so how that worked is I was

(58:28):
working with them as their new editor. I'd worked with
Gabrielle before on a lot of different books, including the
bpr D books he did with Fabio Cool, and we
would meet on Zoom and kind of walk through the
story together. And we would meet I think every week

(58:52):
or two and just kind of write it together live.
It was really cool, Like I tried to adapt my
editorial for whoever needs it in what way is possible
that helps without pushing. So like I know with at
least Kelly Sue, I meet her every two weeks on
Zoom to kind of walk through the story with that team.

(59:13):
Some people just like to text, like Tom King or
some other folks, and the Umbrella Academy team, what was
working there was meeting on Zoom, So that's what we
were doing. We were just meeting on Zoom every week
to kind of write the script live, and then there
would be some interruptions like Gerard going on tour and

(59:35):
things like that, but the bones of the story were
still there, so if Gerard couldn't make it, it'd be me
and Gabrielle just working on it, trying to add some
pieces here or there. So it was a lot of
really fun and different kind of collaboration. But that team

(59:55):
really knows what it's doing. It just it takes a
while to kind of to get it done because I
think sometimes it literally would just be writing one page
a week. Sure, but but then we got there. So
now this the comics are coming out, so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
That's excellent, no, you know, and I understand. I mean, hey,
he's got his music career first and foremost, you know.
But the brothers I Dowf, Gabriel, Gabrielle and Fabio, they're
such sweet guys and really just genius, genius comic makers,
and it's always fun when they put their own books
out let alone, when they collaborate.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Your own writing is just brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
So day Tripper, yes, and hell yeah, yeah, I forget
that epic Argentinian. I think it was Argentina, the thing
they did a couple of years ago. Dave I hooked
me up with them to talk about that, and it
wasn't Day Trippers it was. It was definitely this other
graphic novel details or what was.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
It again, details?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I don't know, it might have been. I don't, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I have to look at my in my archive and everything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
They're always wonderful, too much, man, so so so yeah,
like you said, so currently Powers?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
What else currently on the on the docket? Uh? I'm
trying to think of what's announced and what isn't announced. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I don't want to fuck you out for some of
the stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Okay, So we have more stuff coming from Eric Powell
and Albatross wat great. So there's more goon books.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Uh, And like you said, Red Book is coming out
now with Homing and Tynan. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
So there's more Titan books come in cool with Bendis. Yes,
there is Powers. There's other books being worked on at
the same time that aren't announced. There will always be
more Blackhammer excellent. This so starting tomorrow twenty twenty six
will be the tenth anniversary of Blackhammer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Hopefully there'll be more stuff tied to that here soon
to be announced.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I'm so happy for Jeff and everything. That's like you know,
and again he's always done great. I mean I was
with him from Essex County on. Yeah, but it's it's
so great that and also I just love that he's
set a rock star up in Canada and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
You know, he's wonderful. I think Black Camera had touch
of moments into that. Actually, once a while, you read
a comic book that can make you cry, and there's
been some moments in that book that can you can
close it and be like, oh my god, it got
to me. We have a new We have two new
creators that haven't been announced on my dock right now.

(01:02:29):
Both are imprints, so there are several books attached to
both of them. One should be getting announced here in
February that'll be really cool, and one I think actually
getting announced next month. The one getting announced next month,
I won't say who it is yet, but they had
been publishing them. There's stuff for a long time an

(01:02:51):
indie creator whose work I adored. I had tried to
bring in before and wasn't successful before, but are now
come into dark Horse and I'm really excited about that.
So hopefully next month will be announcing what that is. Uh.
More stuff from Tom King. Uh. I'm working on the

(01:03:14):
American Caper series that one's really fun. That's what fond.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Yeah, I had, I had the whole creative team.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Yeah, they've they've been wonderful book, really really cool. Yeah,
it's a really fun book, really fun crime comic. So
there's more of that come in. Gosh, what else, there's
a lot. I'm just yea a lot more stuff with
Jeff Darrow.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Hey, that's great, miss Jeff.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
He is former Chicago as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Absolutely, no, he's one of the first like big guys
that I ever talked to, and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
I've been his editor for years. So well there's something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
New, we'll get a nudge him to come back on
word balloon man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Yeah, you should know. He's I mean, it's fun. He's
one of the folks I talked to on the phone
every now and then, because you don't get to talk
to a lot of creators on the phone these days.
But he likes to talk on the phone, and he's
good to talk to on the phone. He has wonderful
stories and a really good sense of humor. So I
don't know, I don't think that's been announced, but there's

(01:04:17):
always going to be more shallon Cowboy, I mean excellent,
It's not much like that would be a big spoiler and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Id it again if Richardson is watching or listening, that's
not my intent.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
But yeah, so more books by Kelly's who lots of stuff,
always open to more so if there's creators out there
who need good homes for their work, like we're always looking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
I was gonna say, Dan, are you really are you guys?
You know? I mean, is is there kind of a
hey by all means hit us up with an idea?

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, anyone's always welcome to reach out to me.
And you know, one thing I always just kind of
say about dark Horse is I do I it's probably
biased just by working there and working there for so long.
But you know, I'm not a company guy or anything like,
I'm not here to just kind of always speak positively

(01:05:11):
about a publisher. But I will say, like when it
comes to creator own comics, like I do feel like
dark Horse has a really good deal. Like dark Horse
pays the creators to work on something that they own,
and it's dark Horse's due diligence to make sure that
that relationship is good. And you know, if it doesn't

(01:05:32):
work out, the creators can take the book that they
own and we're paid for and leave with it. A
lot of other publishers do not give that opportunity a
great So, you know, Watchmen is locked in at DC
or you know, even at some other publishers that market
themselves as creator own. It's not always truly that, but

(01:05:55):
dark Horse is that. And there's examples of that. Know,
Stan Secai had left and he left on good terms
and came back because ultimately and he felt like dark
Horses the right home, I believe. Uh. And Uh, Eric
Powell himself, you know, had left and gone back to

(01:06:17):
self publishing then come back to dark Horse. It's it's
what I feel like is it's the editor's responsibility and
the publisher's responsibility to prove that they can be good
partners and if they can't be, the creators should be
able to leave. And uh and I feel like that's
the right uh business relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Have you done any projects that were like during the
substack craze or also any Kickstarter crowdfunding project.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Yeah, so the James Tynan ones were Substack, the right
one in Blue Book, and then Bendis had won the
Fortune Glory sequel. Yes, that started on substack. Sure, and
I feel like there's another one, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
With those always though, like was there always this thought
of okay once like that or the crowdfunding that you know,
it was kind of the deal with dark Horse was
in pocket and in some way that like that was
always the plan first releasing it through stuff substack or crowdfunding,
but a couple of years later it would come out
in dark Horse or it wasn't that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Way with the substack ones. Those were already done deals
and then I think at least with James, we had
contacted him later and today we'll give you a good
home for your books. And Kickstarter is always a little
tricky and that I think it's always probably good for
the Kickstarter happened before a publishing plan is there, just

(01:07:47):
because it can kind of blur sure line of what
is being funded. Sure, like if dark Horse is paying
for it, but it's going through Kickstarter, then why is
dark Horse paying for it? Like those kind of things.
So sometimes it's good just to have kicks are over
and then it's going to a publisher. But at the
same time, like the times have changed too, so kickstar

(01:08:07):
is also a really good outlet for marketing books. Yeah,
and you need that now because publishing is so difficult
it's become smaller. Yes, uh and uh, you know, less
and less people unfortunately are reading, not just kidding the books.
So everyone's looking at short videos.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Now, dude, I make word Balloon shorts for that purpose. Site.
I always quote Bill Maher and he's right that people
want two hours of audio and one minute a video.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's I like podcasts though, because sometimes you
get a five hour interview and I'm like, that is good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
And a boy, that's what we want to hear it definitely, man, Now, Daniel, honestly,
this is great. Please come back because you'd like me here.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
I'm gamed for it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
So that's that. That means a lot, I really I
wis much as I was telling you about some of
my favorite editors. I respect your taste and I think
you're an important voice and it's good to talk to
editors and remind people that there are other creatives involved
in the books that we love and everything. So it's
great to get your perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
So thank you, Thank you so much, John, it was
great to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Absolutely, hang out for a second after we go off there,
I wanted to ask you something. Thanks a lot everybody
for Word Balloon Live. You know. We had an Eye
podcast last night and I also talked to Paul Jenkins.
I might be doing a scene missing with my buddy
Dan McNeil. Great does Chicago radio buddy. We might be
talking about anatome and a murder, so that might still
be coming as far as a live show. Otherwise, great

(01:09:41):
stuff coming for the new year. Have this safe and
happy new year. Thanks for watching, Thanks for supporting Word Balloon.
This is my twentieth year and the audience that's out
there really means a lot, so thank you. So until
next time, stay safe, stay happy, stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Nine