Dracula Batman, Deadman Kelley Jones and Matt Wagne

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, welcome back time again for Word Balloon the
Comic Book Conversation show John Santras. Here are two of
my favorites, Kelly Jones Matt Wagner. They're still doing amazing
work on their Dracula. Well you can call it an adaptation,
I suppose, but they're adding so much more to the
bram Stoker story case. In point volume three, Dracula, the
count the kickstarter is happening right now, and Orlock presses

(00:25):
the name of their publishing arm and man, they are
killing it. It's been so great. I've enjoyed every volume
and this volume coming up is no exception. It's interesting
and this is where I think things go beyond just
a straightforward adaptation in this portion. This is when Dracula
comes to London, and as they explain in the interview,

(00:46):
the way the bram Stoker book actually goes, it's all journals,
it's all logs, it's all diary entries, and it's from
the people around Dracula. In this portion of the story,
we don't really hear from Dracula in the bram Stoker thing.
So the onus was on Matt and Kelly to provide
what Dracula was thinking when he first showed up to London.

(01:09):
You know again he needs to be invited to walk
into places. Well, it's a hell of a lot harder
when you're in a big city like this. How does
he adapt? Really interesting thoughts and gives us a give
us a pretty good in depth preview despite not really
spoiling much. I think you're going to find it very interesting.
And if you haven't jumped on this thing, you can
get volumes one and two from dark Horse, or if

(01:31):
you support the kickstarter you can also get the hardcovers
of volumes one and two only on a soft cover.
As far as what dark Horse has been releasing, but
really great love talking to these guys. We get into
a little dead Man and Batman talk. We have to
given who we're talking to, a little Grendel talk as
well previews of upcoming projects for Matt and a whole
lot more. Dracula Volume three the subject of my conversation

(01:54):
with Kelly Jones and Matt Wagner on today's word Balloon.
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(03:22):
and thanks as always for your support. Good afternoon, everybody,
Welcome back. It's time again for another word Balloon, the
Comic Book Conversation Show. John senttrist here, always happy to
welcome back Kelly Jones and Matt Wagner to word Balloon.
Good to see you guys.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Hey, John, how you been?

Speaker 3 (03:37):
How you doing?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
All right? Man? What's up? What's up? Very excited today
because we're heading to the final turn of Kel and
Matt's excellent adventure with the Prince of Darkness himself, Dracula.
Volume three not the.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Final turn, John, Oh?

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Is there?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Four? Is at least four? We have plans for four.
We'll see where the Darkness takes us after that.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, wow, all right, because obviously yeah we're you know,
and I I you guys tell me because now he's
in London and there's kind of a narrative turn right
in volume three.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, this in some ways I keep saying to people,
this this is the one we that we're aiming for
from the beginning, because as fans of Bromstoker's original eighteen
ninety seven novel know that once the action shifts from
his castle in Transylvania to the streets of Victorian London,
he's off stage the whole time pretty much. The heroes

(04:37):
keep tracking him down, and they keep getting some second
and third hand reports of stuff he'd been doing, but
he's off stage, and so we we decided we needed
to show you what he's doing when he's in London,
because you know, that's that's the bulk of the novel.
So this is not an adaptation of the novel. You

(04:58):
won't really see the events as they unfold in the novel.
You'll see some touch points that you might recognize. But yeah,
he's sneaking around, he definitely has plans. He's not really
paying attention to that crew of heroes. He doesn't really
know anything about them, and and yeah, it was it

(05:18):
was quite an intensive challenge to let me backtrack just
a bit by saying, you know, this book is you know,
I always maintained Dracula's the world's most famous literary character.
There's almost nowhere in the world. You can go and
say the name Dracula and people don't know who you're
talking about. As a result, it's also one of the
world's most annotated and analyzed books. One of the reasons

(05:42):
for that is that it's written in what's called an
epistolary style, which means there's no omniscient narrator. It's all
letters and journals and news articles. So as a result,
all the events in the book are dated by both
month and day, so it's very it's very easy to
break it down as to you know, how the events
actually take place. So I had to make sure that

(06:03):
all this fit exactingly in with the canon of what's there,
because there's a ton of dracularly scholars who will take
us to task if it doesn't fit, you know. And
yet at the same time I have to recognize that
a lot of people know Dracula from movies and have
not read the book, and we also needed to make
it a narrative that would be interesting to them as well.

(06:24):
So it was quite a quite a challenge. I keep saying,
this is one of the most intensive things I've ever written.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, it would have to be, Matt. The research on
it is phenomenal. I mean, everything you've come up with
is just and it fits. Yes, And that's the thing.
It isn't like you just looked up stuff. It all
has to jig soft to one another. And that that
knocked me out when I read it was it was

(06:49):
like I had not read anything like that before.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
And Dan, like I said, if you haven't read the book,
you don't need to have no, you know't It's still unfolded,
a very intriguing and entertaining to a newbie.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, even if it's people who just know all
the various Dracula movies, it will be utterly brand new.
It's it's kind of the Dracula you don't see, uh
budd He's every bit is awful, actually more awful.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
We like.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Matt had to do all this research and I just
had to do boobs and blood and that mays.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
But Kellen's it was it more challenging this volume compared
to the you.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Know people, I've never been an artist who says, draw
what I want to write what I want to draw.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I don't do that. I think the only way you
get better is people just write something and then you
have to figure it out. So Matt would say, oh,
you know, we're gonna do all this different stuff, and
it's in Victorian.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
I know.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
It didn't scare me at all, because you want, if
you're gonna get better, you got to keep trying, and
the only way to do it is stories that you
have to make work. And so when I read it,
my only thing was does it have emotion in it?
And it did, and that's all I need. The rest

(08:14):
of it, I'll figure out.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, it's hard to imagine Kelly getting better, because holy shit,
this this stuff is great and as all as books
you want, and two where number three knocks it out
of the park. And I think the setting the setting
isn't mountains and castles and stuff, and the intricacies of
Victorian London, the streets, the buildings, the atmosphere and everything,
and boy, he nails it.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
And it's what you want. I mean something I've never
I've never liked it when, like I said, when someone
tries to gear it towards me, just tell their story
and then I'll, like I said, I'll figure out. But
I loved it when I read it because I knew
it would just in the change of venue. I knew
it was gonna it would differentiate itself from the proper one.

(09:00):
And and it did. As I was about twenty pages
in and I knew, I knew this was gonna work.
I mean, I just looked at it. When people aren't
gonna miss all the other stuff they're gonna get, they're
gonna really get into this.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
This is well could of course again, this the this
scenario is the trappings most people are familiar with with
him and being in London, you know, and around praying.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
He's wearing that top.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, we've been wearing a top hat a lot. So
he very much evokes uh, the lawn cheney vampire from
London after midnight.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
My body looks so sinister. It's great.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
He looks great.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, outstanding. Are I matter we getting in?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So?

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Are we getting into Dracula set as far as his strategy, Sure.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, yeah, because you know, I mean, uh, we are
with him, you know again. Okay, let me back back
there a little bit. When I mentioned that the novel
is epistolary, Well, it's full of all these voices, the
voices of the various heroes and their opinions anything. The
voice that's missing is Dracula now I understand why brom
Stoker wrote it that way. That makes Dracula and other
a sinister presence, you know, scary. You don't know him,

(10:04):
you can't get into his head. But it's been one
hundred plus years now, hundred twenty five years, undred twenty
seven years. I think, Uh, it's time we heard what
Dracula has to say about it, you know. And he's
a he's in a major uh one of the world's
major metropolis is at this point, you know. And he
had come from four hundred years in the remote Carpathian highlands,

(10:25):
you know, with just peasants and superstitions and wolves and
you know, deep dark forests, you know. Now he's in
a different kind of forest, an urban forest, you know.
And so we see him exploring this world and learning
how to navigate it, like for instance, you know, there
were a lot of practical things I had to address, Like,
for instance, we all know the trope of a vampire

(10:46):
has to be invited into a dwelling right well, in London,
there are millions of thresholds. How's he get past those?
You know, he has to figure out a way in
each instance to how does he get invited in you know,
uh he does, but uh uh yeah, and it's it's uh,

(11:08):
as I said, he's not really thinking about the heroes.
You know, there's there's and I address this in the
in the third book as well. There's a whole lot
of novel conveniences coincidences in the In the original novel, like,
for instance, you know, Jonathan Harker travels all the way
from London to Transylvania to sell him this, uh, this
dilapidated estate in the eastern suburbs of London, and uh

(11:35):
and then when Dracula's ship crash lands on the northeastern
coast of England. Uh, the first woman he meets and
prays on it just happens to be the best friend
of Jonathan's fiance, you know. And then and.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Then uh uh, the the house that he buys just
happens to be next to a sanitarium owned by a
doctor who's in love with the woman that was the
first woman he prayed on when.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
He got to England. So just a whole lot of
coincidental conveniences there, which again I do address in the
in the script for the third one. But yeah, like
I said, just a lot of practical things and a
lot of a lot of following him through with what
his eventual schemes are like.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
For instance, again it's genuinely creepy. Yeah that too, that too,
it has a creepy horror story.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, you know, everybody knows Carfax. You know, most people
call it Carfax Abbey. It's not an abbey in the
book that they conflate it with Whitby Abbey, which is
where the ship that the Demeter crashes. There's an abandoned
abbey there, so that kind of gets paired up with Carfax.
In most film adaptations, Carfax is just a dilapidated estate,
an abandoned estate dating whack hundreds of years. So everybody

(12:49):
knows carfaxs and that's where he stashes his fifty crates
of earth that he brings you know, to London from Transylvania,
because of course he needs to sleep on his native
soil to reimpay his vampiic powers. You know. But what
most people don't realize in the book, he purchases other
buildings around London. He starts distributing the coffins around so
he's not all in one spot, you know. So you know,

(13:12):
we show him doing that we show him exploring these areas,
and of course you know he runs into he's just
a just a deadly asshole everywhere he goes.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
When when does Renfield make it a you.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Know, Renfield is in the the In fact, of the
characters in the book, Renfield is the one that makes
the kind of the most prominent appearance. We tried to
keep the characters in the book in the background or
in the shadows, you know, so you know they're there
and such. But the point is this is all from
his point of view, and so it's not they aren't
really in the forefront.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, I never really drew them. They're kind of just
like he said, in the background from.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
The beginning in the text. I yeh. In the script,
I said, we need to not see these people. They're
either off panel, or they're in shadows, or we see
them from behind or something like this.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
And I think it worked great. Yeah, it does, really,
it worked great. I think Renfield's the only one, like
you said, you actually see and it's important you do.
But and that's because he has direct contact with him. Dracula, yes, yep, yep.
But the others are there just because they were in

(14:21):
the novel. So you want to connect all the parts.
But it's his story.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's tract and unlike. You know, I'm sure a lot
of people would consider themselves Dracula fans as Kel said earlier,
know it mainly from the movies. Well, this whole concept
that he's a romantic figure and that he's in love
with one of these two women Lucy or Mina, or
imagines Mina to be the to be the resurrection of
his long dead lover or wife. You know, that is
nowhere in the book. Nothing. He prays on Lucy because

(14:49):
she's convenient, she's the first one he runs into, and
then he keeps going back to her because it's convenient.
And then he prays on Mina because he wants to
weaponize her against the people that he knows now are
stalking him. That's it. There is no there's no tender
feelings at all. Uh. And yes, it's more than just hunger.
It's manipulation as well, you know, with yes, with Lucy,
it's hunger. You know. I I really make a point

(15:12):
to try and uh describe the sensuality of his drinking blood.
You know, he he talks in the second book about
how it's the most wonderful thing he's ever experienced, you know.
And uh and uh uh. In the third book, everybody
he prays on, I have him describe what they taste like,
and a lot of it has to do with their
emotional state and their class. They're they're kind of social

(15:35):
political class, you know, and it changes for each and everyone,
you know. And I can't remember what he what he
describes loose.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Do pash people taste better then than the.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Not necessarily women. Women taste better than men. Women taste yeah,
because and that's that's spawned from in the fact in
the book, we don't see him pray on any men.
Uh you know, he does, but it's only women that
goes after Yeah, and he describes that it's just that
they taste better to me.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
The only time he does is to control them, to
control men for women functional reasons. Yeah, yeah, women, it's
food and erotic and sex and hunger and all those
things all me all thron together.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
All that, but no romance, no tender feelings.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Is to know that, I yeah, I never saw him
that way. It's like, you know, what he needs at
that moment, and it fulfills it, and then he's onto
his bigger agenda, in.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Fact, with each one of the in the Brides is
he gets each one of his three brides. He has
a little mantra that changes a little bit with each
one of them, but basically the basic gist of it
is mine to embrace, mine to maintain, mine, to do
which with as I please. So you know, he's in
control all the time in his mind, you know.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Well, and becoming a vampire. He's becoming less human, but
he doesn't know it yet. So he's going through the
motions thinking he should have these things in his life,
these women, and as he moves on, it's like, you
know that he's casting off that humanity.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, and that's the thing in the first in the
second book, something that somebody could interpret as tender feelings,
but in my mind isn't. With the Three Brides, when
he was alive, he was married twice and never had
any children, and so these are the first things he's
ever created, and he finds he feels a certain responsibility

(17:37):
to them, and that's not tender. That's more of his
mcgalumaniacal attitude. You know, I made this. It's gonna sustain.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
And Matt as Matt gade a success you know, he he,
I thought, very wisely, very shrewdly focused on the girl
politics in that castle, and so Dracula is having to
deal with that. And it's it's not like broad funny,
we're not doing it. It's just what's going on. And
Matt just told me one day, he says, well, you know,

(18:07):
he here, he does this, and now he's got to
pretty much stay on the grounds in the castle with
three women that are never going to die, you know,
and that really, uh, that set the tone for me.
It's like, yeah, it's girl politics, and that makes the
brides far more interesting.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Matt, did you and and kel two beyond the text
of bram Stoker? Did you look at other adaptations? I
remember Orson Wells and Bogdanovich in Bogdanovitch's book about Wells
talking about Dracula and he just goes on, but no
one's really done the book. The book is amazing, and

(18:48):
he you know, and I never listened to his Mercury
Theater adaptation.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's not the book either, of course, it's truncated due
to its length.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
You know, well, yeah that's true, it's only an hour. Yeah,
but yes, of.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Course, I so, especially for this one which, again, as
I have said over and over again, here I had
to get exactly right. You know, I had three different
annotated versions I was working off of. I have effectsile
of stokers original notes and outlines, which are all intact
and all starred in a place called the Rickenbach Museum

(19:19):
in Philadelphia, so I use those. I had maps of
Victorian London. I had. I had a calendar from one
of the annotated versions, because again it's all spelled out
what happens on each day. So here was this calendar,
and I had to make it all fit in. Okay,
here's this happens, and here this happens. You know, this

(19:41):
calendar even had the sunrise and sunset times in the
phases of the moon on it. You know, I mean,
I was really trying hard to get it all right.
But then you know, I have I have lots of
other you know, there's lots of other cool versions of Dracula.
I have probably four or five screenplays and and uh

(20:02):
stage play versions, one of which one of the screenplays
and never got produced, was written by infamous director Ken Russell,
who of course Tommy yeah yeah, and it's it's pretty good. Uh.
What else there's a there was a book a number
of years ago. There was a big hit called The

(20:22):
Historian by a woman named Elizabeth Costavas uh and it's
a Dracula sequel. It's really good. It's a long, slow burn,
but I liked it quite a bit. Back in the seventies,
science fiction writer Fred Saberhagen did a variety of Dracula
pastiche novels. One was called The Dracula Tapes, and that

(20:42):
is the events from his point of view. The other
one I really liked, one of the teenager was called
The Holmes Dracula Files, where Sherlock Holmes goes up against Dracula.
And then there's a there's a series that I just
adore because it's so whack a doodle. It's called the
Dracula Horror Series. And when I was between I saw
these on the shelves all the time in bookstores, and

(21:05):
their little paperbacks are they're about the size of the
Uh Doc Savage paperbacks, the Bantam reprints from the seventies.
And it's written by a guy named Robert Lowry, and
they are crazy. It's almost like a take on the
exploitation films of the time. So Dracula is there's a
there's a crime fighting team and it's led by a

(21:25):
Professor X guy, a guy who has telepathy and is quadriplegic,
so just like Professor X right wow or paraplegic and uh.
And there's a like a ware cat woman and his
personal bodyguard is a six and a half foot tall
Puerto Rican martial arts expert. And anyway, they resurrect Dracula,

(21:46):
and there's this convoluted thing with how they they take
the steak that was in his heart. They shark, They
take off a big shart of it, and the doctor
surgically implants it right next to his heart and sews
him up. So then if Dracula ever gets out of
line his telepathy, he could poke his heart with he
could skewer his heart with the how he keeps him
in line. And he just uses Dracula as the team's

(22:08):
like attack dog, like to fight the bad guys. And
Dracula is constantly trying to break free, and you know, oh,
it's they're just crazy and they're just so much pulpy,
pulpy fun.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
I didn't I see, I didn't look at anything. I
I but yeah, please, yeah, I Matt. Matt uh had
done all this work and wanted it original, so I
wouldn't look at anything but go by what he said.
And I made a point of that, uh with the brides,
they're all from women I know in real life.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
There, which is way cool.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, And I went and I asked him, Yeah, I said,
now you don't mind because it's pretty. But I I
let them know what Matt was going to do to
him and how this would all go, and they all
jumped in it. And I said, Okay, he basically bites, rapes, murder, kills,

(23:04):
you know, all that terrible stuff they're in, right, But
I did it because of their personalities. All were very
close to what Matt was writing, you know. Uh in fact,
it was eerie because I'm read, I go, well, that's
her and and then but my first thought was, well,
now I kind of have an idea of where to

(23:25):
go because I know him really well. And they all so,
uh it's great. I'm uh like I said, though I said,
you may not, you may not want to because it's
so uh so wonderful, gory, gross, And no, they all jumped.
They all wanted to be in it. Uh, they all uh.

(23:47):
In fact, I'm in the next week or two, I'm
gonna take them all out to lunch and give them
their books. Uh and yeah, but that was it.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I got a report back right away.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, I'll take them out and give them their books.
But they were all very excited, and I did, Matt,
I did. I would show them the sections and say
if you if you opt out, it's okay because people
are going to wonder, how did you see that much
of her? That's the imagination. But they all went for it,

(24:25):
and they all it's the big moment in their life.
Is they get to be one of the.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Girls of one of the PLA.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yes, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I don't want to say that, come on, yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Well they all do so. In fact, my little sketches
I had done to show Matt what they would kind
of look like I gave. I'm giving each one of
them their drawings.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, we reproduced in volume two.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
And they're in the second book, so they'll see it.
I just don't give their names because everyone would then
go and look and check it and see.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Absolutely, that's hilarious. Yeah Jesus. Uh, well, I hope, but
I hope.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
That normally, don't I normally do not do that, but
Matt had written them so the I love the characterization
of the brides. I felt terrible knowing they're gonna go
right because I really started falling in love with them all.
They were just so interesting.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, the challenge there was the the brides make such
as was so much of Dracula and his appearances in
the book. They're they're they're brief, and they're vague, and
yet they're full of tantalizing hints. And so the brides,
you know, the brides of Dracula, even though they're never
actually called the brides in the book. They are just
vampiric women that live in the castle. So of course

(25:43):
they are his concerts in some fashion, you know. But
they make such an indelible impression that they show up
in almost every film adaptation, you know, and yet they're
in the book for three or four pages.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
But you made them so each one's personality, their character whatever,
I instantly connected to it. I mean, I was fascinated
with them.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well, that was the challenge they had to be and
I thought that that was one of those home runs Matt.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Matt hits a lot, but that one I went, well,
they got to they gotta hold court.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, so how interesting he needed he needed to want
each one of them for.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Different reasons, and so each one Matt tells like a
short their short stories of how he courted him. My
guess is the word and then.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
You know, uh.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Likely, but it's pretty but they But I found it
so interesting that when he had done that, uh, and
then they're all together, if it was like, yes, that
is that's enough to sustain. Actually it makes the book
worth it just for that is it is so.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
And another detail then is, as I said, he wanted
each one of them for different reasons. They each other
different personalities and things that make them special. But once
he turns them, each of them lost a little bit
of the humanity that made him want them to begin with. Yeah,
because of course he's he's contagion rights.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Of a xerox of a xerox of them.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, yeah, yeah, they're losing their humanity once once he
gets to the sure.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Because they become they become focused on the same things.
And so it's just you know basically what but I
do like how uh they're they're not because he uses
ZERI Matt. They are devoted to him in their way,
you know they're devoted to him, so they're jealous, and
you know, you see all that stuff, but uh uh,

(27:44):
they're they're fully formed characters from like Matt said, just
a few lines, just a few descriptions. That's why I
didn't want to look at anything, because Matt was doing
this and I went, these aren't the girls I've seen
or the women I've seen in the movies or anything
like that. These are regular women.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
One little uh yeah, the little detail we have in
there is that the last one that he takes Tatiana,
she's the one that's most ashamed of being turned, and
yet at the same time she has the most voracious
hunger for blood. She's she's the biggest pig for the blood.
But as a result, every time you see her where
she's not feeding, she's wearing a veil over the lower

(28:25):
half of her face to hide her fangs. And again
we never really explained that.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's just yeah, and like I, it's those touches all
through it, those touches. The second bride, her relationship with
her father wonderful. The first goal, you know, her dad works, there's.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
A servant, the second one is an aristocrat, and the
there ones a mystic.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
All fabulous all And like I said, I knew these girls.
Is soon as I read them, I knew them. And
it was like we were lucky at that one. And
I'll be honest with you, there's one thing when you
look for reference and you dig through things or whatever,
but when someone's creating, Matt came up with three characters,
like he you know, three new characters. So when he

(29:19):
first said that, I went, I don't. I don't know
how I'm gonna work on that because I don't want
it to just look like superhero thing or you want
these to be real people. So but when I read
his script, they were there. I knew them, so I went, okay,
call them all, got permission, let him, let I told

(29:40):
him what was going on. But they became real, and
that that's why, uh you know.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Okay, let's let's be honest here too. Cal for one
of them, you just walk down the hall.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, she's down the hall, one of them.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Wife.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
That was the one I was afraid because Matt, and
she's very arrogant, and I'm going, yeah, I know her.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Oh really you've never used your wife as a model before? Wow?

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Uh yeah?

Speaker 3 (30:09):
In in like I couldn't get something right way, you know,
like I needed I needed.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
So for like a gesture or something, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Something like that. But but it's one of those things
that I'm glad I waited for this. You need to
I'm glad I waited because I didn't know what was
coming out when So when he's describing her and I
told her, I said, okay, Matt, and I said, she's
a kind of ally, kind of arrogant, and she just
raises her hand and I said, okay, you're cool with

(30:42):
that and she goes, yeah. So and then another the
another one I'd known for like twenty five thirty years,
and she's like a sister. But Matt nailed it, and
I said that that's her. I said, that's her. Just
even the kind of holistic uh you know, it would

(31:02):
be would cover her face if she had friends, she
wouldn't want to be rude, and oh God, that's her,
you know. So they all worked out and and they
became alive.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
I had the same thing in Mage, especially in the
last book of Mage, where I had a character that
was based on my sister in law, Diana Shutt, who
is you know, my longtime editor at dark Horse and uh,
you know, I had her doing a couple of things
in that in that last part, and I said to her, Okay,
you're all right with this and she just said and
she just said, I know who I am.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, okay, Because because I'm always I'm always going to
serve this story first. So whatever happened, and I didn't
know how far some of this would go. I mean,
I read the script, but when you draw it, that's
when it tells you what it needs. So there'd be
some days I went, you know, and Matt would respond

(32:01):
and that's it. That's it. And then I went, okay, let.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Me take it down the hall.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
No, but I got no pushback. I got no go
go as far as you want. They understood it. It
it's it's but the greatness of it, like I said,
was Matt's great characters came to life. And and that
was that was the neat trick. Everyone knows Dracula, but
the girls they didn't know.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Because there's nothing there will know. There's no there is
no detail in the book, and the only detail is
that one of them seems to be one of them
is blonde, as opposed to darker, the tiar dark, and
the blonde one seems to be of a higher social
class because they both defer to her to have the
first feeding on that.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah and yeah, and in real life that would happen too.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
So do you find that in general, Kelvin, when you
get a script that it isn't until you're drawing that
certain things occur to you. As far as.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
What I look for and what I got from Matt,
though Matt didn't know. It's a lot of people think, oh, visual,
you can think visual. To me, it's always emotion because
out of that the ideas come, and I try not
to think about it. I know the story. I've read
his scripts about five or six times before I start,
and then the only notes I'll make are very general,

(33:20):
like atmospheric things, not specific, and then when I get there,
it'll happen and bang that I just you just let
it go. He had he'll have some time where he'll
do certain things. And Matt's very good at letting me
do this. I mean, I always wait. If he says
too far, I say okay, but he hasn't said too

(33:41):
far yet, so or or certain things on just how
I'll I'm kind of I'm not as concerned with storytelling
as I am with impact, and however I get that,
I'll take.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
It and that's emotion. That's what I'm talking about it.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, I've never been one of those guys, and I
know it. If probably I've never sat there and studied
storytelling comic book wise. I look at it more maybe
from film on how I react to an image. And
Matt will do this thing I like where he'll set
me up for that shot, for that reveal, whatever it is,

(34:18):
and however I get there, that's because I draw.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
It too, dude, I know how that works.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
But Matt, Matt is Matt's fabulous storyteller. I don't know
if I am. I don't really think I am. I
think what I do is ideas. I just it's almost
stream of consciousness sometimes, and I have.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
To watch your story. Your storytelling is great, dude, it's
there have been a few points where I point something
out to you. Look from a storytelling standpoint, this point
is confusing. We need we need to readdress that, you know,
And usually Kelly's always like, you know, oh yeah no.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Because because beyond Matt being a look, I became more
of Matt because I was a big fan of art
first and foremost that was it, and I wanted to
meet him. He I made a point to go to
a show in Detroit to meet him. That's that's where
I met him, just to see him, and we locked
eyes because as soon as we got off the plane,

(35:11):
there's we're all waiting to go, and that's the guy.
Because I was really into his stuff. I really liked it.
He did this demon thing I thought was wonderful. He
done this Batman thing that I just knocked me out.
There's a few shots that that I just went, man,
I wish I'd have thought of that. They're that good.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
So then then we've truly got to know each other.
On the you know, we both contributed art to the
Sandman season Missed story arc. Kelly drew the Absolute Lion's share.
I drew one chapter, but we did a variety of
signing appearances, and of course, you know, it's it's us
to a k Neil, And of course, you know, all
the little goth girls in line are just melting over Neil,

(35:52):
which leaves Kelly and I to just like shoot, you know, yeah,
And it turned out, you know, we have so many
common interests and his mutual sense of humor and we
just had a great time.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
In ninety two, we were in Houston, and that's where
we sat next to each other, yep, and Chris Claremont
was on the other end, and I was talking to
Matt the whole time. I didn't be you know, And
and that's where I think at that point I went, man,
one of these days I got to do something with him,
because I was I was really digging what he did,

(36:23):
and I was the odd duck in the mainstream world
and Matt was in the world I really wanted to
be in. But I wasn't independent enough for that. So
I yeah, yeah, I never fit anywhere really. I mean,
my careers basically have in comics. I've never drawn really

(36:43):
superheroes or anything. I've never I mean I don't really
have there.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
You've drawn superheroes, but they're always spooky superhero.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Well, I do what I do to them. So I'd
never fit in that world. I orbit very far from
the sun there and so always felt much more. Matt
introduced me to Tim Sale, I mean, all the people
that I was admiring and I was following, and so

(37:10):
you know, and I kept I kept thinking, one of
these days, something will happen. And that's at that point
when I Matt had posted a picture and he said,
oh I got censored on this, blah blah blah, And
I thought, and he showed the picture as it wasn't
that's wonderful. And I had just said that's really good
and I would, you know, work with you in the

(37:31):
heartbeat or something like that.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, and he again echoed the thing we've been saying
each other for four days. You got to do something someday.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I had been as most times you get frustrated because
I have the sensibility I have, and then there's the mainstream.
So what I think is wonderful to goo, we can't
publish that, or that's too far. And with Matt, I
just figured.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
You're the bat and you're the bat in Acep's fable.
Do you know that one? Yeah, where the there's a
war between the birds and the beasts and the birds
come to the bat and say you're one of us.
He says, no, I'm a beast. Yeah. The beast come
to the bat and he say, no, I'm a bird.
And so as a result he's neither. And that's why
bats are isolated creatures. Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
It felt that way, and it's and it's odd. Uh
I I don't, I don't. It's not a bad thing.
I chose it. I'm fine with it. You know. That's
just the way.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
But you were, you were, you were, you were behaving
independently within those structures. I mean, when dead Man came out,
I was like, holy shit, they're they're letting him draw this.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Like one of the great things from that d C
did is I got in the mail. They overnighted it
Matt an issue of Grendel, I believe, and Matt had
written a great review of Batman that I was doing
with Doug Minch, saying hey, look it's back to something

(38:51):
kind of cool and forties and weird. And they were
so taken at d C that they sent it to
me with this note saying, look, this is real credentials here,
you know. And I thought, that's I still have it,
you know.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah. We used to do every uh in the letters column.
We used to a Good Reads and it wasn't limited
to comics. We did, you know, novels and such as well.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
And at that point I I when I called him up,
I says, okay, that means I said the issue he
chose I had to fight like crazy to get a
lot of the suits, So shut the fuck up and
let me. And that's why I get to the point Matt.
Matt is a terrific writer and our career of cards.
He's also an outstanding editor. So it isn't like we're

(39:36):
sitting there. I instantly just trust. I go if a
guy can write this and knock me out. And I've
read and seen and done everything, and I'm going, wow,
this is blowing me away. What's so good is with
the brides coming out, I'm getting just dayluged with reaction.
And they're all seeing the same thing I said when
I read it all by myself in my room. They're

(39:58):
all they're all reacting to the same thing.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
So Kelly mentioned being an editor there, you know when
I am acting in an editorial fashion. Again, it's always
about storytelling. It's always it's always uh, it's it's never
about the appearance or the art or anything. It's all
about are we striking the chord we need to strike here?

Speaker 3 (40:18):
And if you trust that, sometimes you need the distance.
An editor is essential because you need the distance. Now,
if they're an idiot, then you okay.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
But either a third set of eyes. Then beyond this.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Is your first audience.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, it's mainly me. Yeah. For instance, with Book one.
With Book one, I knew that, you know, page one,
we had to really strike something again, as I said,
a chord. It needed to be a resonant cord. It
needed to not only be that, it needed to be
our chord. Again. Uh, Dracula's people already have many, many
perceptions of Dracula, so it needed to be familiar, and

(40:54):
yet it needed to be ours. And we went through
that first page four times. Oh yeah, hell and every
everyone that he drew looked great. But I was like, Okay,
here's the problem with this one, and here's the problem
with this one, you know, And I never he'd go, Okay,
I dig it and go back to the drawing. We
ever complained because he was right.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I would go.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
And then the one we finally hit was just perfect.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
It was perfect, and so tonally speaking, you go, you
go for that until you get it. U no ego
with me when it comes to this. I know what
this is, I know.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
How it makes it easier on my end too.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Well, there's no point to it. I mean, the books
live forever. I don't need my fight.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And the point is, you know, we need
to make it the best story we can make it.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
This is the first time I'm equally rough on myself.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
I'm constantly going back and going, oh, wait, okay, I've
been I've been all overstated. I can cut that down
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
You know, I've been married thirty five years. This is
the first time my wife has been interested in something
I'm doing. You will actually ask me what's going on?
Can I see what's up? Never did that before, actually
reads them. Yeah, and and is like going, well, well
she's civilian, right, so so for her. And so what

(42:11):
I got was I got a great couple of letters
emails from people reading it saying, hey, my wife or
my girlfriend is really digging this, and they don't read comics.
And I thought, well, that's that's due to Matt, and
you trust that that isn't me. I mean, that's if anything,
if you strip the words away and you look at

(42:33):
it and go, oh, come on, but when you put
it all there and it's in context, I was so Matt.
My most exciting day is when Rob Lee our letter
sends something less so I can see it. I'll work together.
How do the beats hit.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
This. This is a perfect opportunity to sing Rob's praises
a little bit. Bob came to the project via Kelly.
Kelly had worked with them before, and one of the
problems lettering Kelly's stuff is that everything looks great, like
what do you cover up? It's because you have to
cover up something with the lettering. And he said, Rob's
really good at figuring out what can be sacrificed, you

(43:12):
know what, what can be covered up? And he really is.
And he has a lot of verb and personality in
his lettering as well, but he is particularly good at
making everything fit and everything flow.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Where I'm and it seems like I'm just singing mass praises.
One of the funny things I loved about Rob before
we did this was he would kind of edit as
he went and he would tell the writer, well, you
got this wrong, or this grammar doesn't work, or this
reference is not you know, blah blah blah. He hasn't
done that at all with this.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
He did it with me twice twice, okay twice. One
one was a word usage that he was right, and
the other one was, oh, cal that scene where Dracula
slaps Gabriella and twists her head all the way around. Yeah.
And as she's twist I decided I hadn't had this
in the original script. I decided we should sticking up

(44:05):
you know her her kind of gagging as she's as
she's twisting her head around. And he said, well, we
should throw another one into at the end of that balloon.
And I was like, you're right, go ahead it But that's.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
All you know, Yeah, And and but he's he's just
it's one of those things where it's a very overlooked thing.
But but lettering is an art and this guy's got it.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
And what were you got to say there.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
John, Oh No, I was gonna ask and and and
I love that what you're talking about with the lettering.
And I'm showing preview pages for the audio audience. I'm
showing preview pages from the Kickstarter. What about the coloring?
And tell me about that for both of you interns.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
There we go, Okay, this is a this is a
fun little behind the scenes thing. We had a different
colorist to begin with, who shall remain unnamed, a very
uh well well regarded, highly sung uh A list, yeah,
a list colorist. And I had given this person my

(45:02):
outlook on how I think Kelly's stuff ought to be colored,
and uh, and she did the first two pages and
they were the exact opposite of what I had said.
And you know, I went back and I said, what
I gave you notes on you know, how to approach this,
and this is not and she admitted, oh, I forgot

(45:23):
that and I didn't look at the notes. So we
fired her on the spot, and uh. And so then
we started, uh searching around for somebody else, and I thought, hey,
what about jose Vilarubia, because at that point he had
been doing this incredible work that was I was seeing
some of it online of restoration on Swampson writes in
his original run on swamp Thing, and he was also

(45:45):
doing restoration stuff on the corbon line and both of those.
My my coloring thing with Kelly is a Kelly's work
needs to be colored brightly, you know, not not a
lot of not a lot of soupermuted colors, you know.
And my opinion is that Kelly's already drawn in the shadows.

(46:07):
You don't need to accentuate that it's already there, you know.
And I told this to Jose and you know, I
knew he would get it based upon those two examples
I just cited, but then I also pointed him to
I was like, look, if we're talking about films, horror films,
think about Suspiria by Daria Argenta and Black Sabbath by

(46:31):
Mario Bava, both of which are lit up like pinball machines.
They are so bright an eon and they're spooky as
can be. And boy, he got it in his phase.
And one neat thing that most people won't notice that
he does. He fills in all the gutters as an
off white color. So if you're looking at that example
there to our right right in the center of the page,

(46:52):
there you can see how the gutters aren't as bright
as the word balloons, and it really makes the word
balloons pop. And it also gives an echo of the
kind of nineteen seventies books that Kelly and I holds
the deer and we're trying to late with this project.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
You know, newsprint, like a newsprint.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, so he brought it in spades.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Yeah, he's been great. I mean, his choices. I always
tell him, He'll he'll ask me, and I'll just say,
go with whatever your inspiration is.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
I'm not. And here again I will say occasionally there's
a storytelling color issue that I have to point out. Yeah,
and Jose's just like, I don't know, fifteen minutes later
he'll go, oh, okay, how about this point, and there
it is corrected.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
I would imagine he's coloring digitally and everything. So is
that past fix and everything? So that's great. So I'm
so glad you guys mentioned the seventies horror magazines because
again that's you know, they were on my racks as well,
and it's amazing. Is so would you say that stuff
is just in the back of your mind having consumed

(48:03):
it and stuff or again, caw, do you divorce yourself.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
From very anachronistically? I still brush paper pen so it's
gonna naturally, it's going to have that. It's going to
have that anyway. And uh, Frankly, I always try to
compete with the period that influenced me. So I'm not
trying to ape it, but I'm trying to go further

(48:26):
with it. And again, if you get a great story,
you can do that, but I try to. I think
comics for me, realistic is great, but interesting is better
to me, absolutely, And so I'm going for interesting. I
don't I don't want effects and realism and all that

(48:48):
because it tends to pull me.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Back, and we have photographs for that.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
We have yeah, you know, yeah, so I want to see.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I want to see the little mistakes the artist makes
that his own personality, and.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
I want I want those too, because sometimes something good
comes out of it. There was a early on Matt
has uh these certain sequences going on, one where he's
more of a back creature, but he has it where
he's a back creature, and then we see him in
the forest and you know, peering at the building, and

(49:25):
I just left him the back creature just because he's
going to be so dapper, and I thought, now that
wouldn't happen if I tried to do I'm worried about
how realistic and how how would this work? I don't care.
And it just worked because I wanted it.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
It's that page we're looking at right there.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
It is.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
And so at that point I thought, yeah, because we're
going to see him in the top half here for you,
I didn't want to crowd the really good reveal, and
so I went, yeah, he should be awful, and so
I'll that's one of those moments that I never would
have in the reading of the script. I would say, yep,
he's you know, Dracula, and blah blah blah. But frankly

(50:08):
it comes from that just letting it happen. And that
falls in the same area as mistakes. But that's because
whether someone likes what I do or not, I want
him to know it's me, and they'll know by working
in this way. It's not old school, it's not retro,
it's not anything. But I don't know a problem with

(50:31):
any of those terms because I love that stuff. What
it is is idiosyncratic.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
And another thing that links is to that is we're
working in the same format eight and a half by
eleven for these books, not standard American comic book size,
which has been.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
A nightmare when I try to draw a normal size
again because and then all of a sudden, I go,
I have no room. Everything's squished.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah. See, that was one of the reasons I wanted
to go this route to begin with. I was like,
we need Kelly's art to have that room to breathe, you.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Know, And it does, and that does. Mass pacing is
great because his panel, how many panels he has a page.
I've never really thought of. And it's only until after
I had done I went, man, this is really everything
is just the right amount. And then and and then
I would look and I would see the pay the
panel counts were just perfect for what he wanted to do.

(51:24):
And it would sometimes run contrary. There's times where he'll
want something and and uh, and it's and again it's
where it's I'll give him this. It's afterwards I went, yeah,
that was right, That's not how I would have approached it.
But after the fact, I go, there's no other way
it could be.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Oh, and and vice versa. Dude, I I will give
you stuff and it comes back and it's like, oh,
it's not quite what I was picturing, but it looks great.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
And that's the beauty of to me comics, beyond my
selfish what I want to do. It's collaboration and you
get that third thing and that.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yeah, and I've been saying this for especially on this book,
because now we've really hit a stride. But you know,
I just feel like Kelly and I are you know,
we all know those those various teams throughout the history
of comics, you know who who were just you know,
they were like Lennon McCartney. You know, you couldn't tell
one from the other. It was a perfect synthesis. And uh,
you know, let's say Denny o neal, O'Neil Adams and

(52:23):
Chris Claremont and John Byrne and you know, Stanley and
Jack Kirby and you know, I mean, the list goes
on and on and on and and I really feel
like we're we're soaring at those heights, like we are
hitting those same kind of things.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I will say now that I've done God, how much
is it about four hundred pages or something of this? Yeah,
something like that, or three.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
A little over three, little over three?

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Yeah, okay, yeah, something like that.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
I I can now say that I can now say
that what you just said, I had thought of it
that way, but I would say, now that's very true
that they just, uh, there's nothing Matt will throw at
me that would frighten me to do that. I like,
oh God, it isn't. I haven't run into one of those.

(53:14):
What I can say is because never in this has
it been anything boring. I think boring is where people miss.
It's like, oh God, I got this. Matt doesn't do
endless guys talking.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I do some guys talking, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
While they're covered in blood or she's you know, then
they're talking. But it's fascinating and what and Matt, what
you have them say is interesting and it doesn't pair it.
I mean, it isn't like you're you're not teaching anyone anything.
You're showing them something.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, that's you know every time. I you know, from
my very beginning of my career in comics, I've been
inspired by a quote from Edgar Allen Poe, which was
it an in a short story, every word has to tell.
And I just feel it's that with comics that you know,
every word has to tell, every picture has to tell,
every color has to tell, every line has to tell.

(54:10):
And you don't want to you don't want those those
tells being repeated. You know. Everyone needs to propel it
to the next moment, propel it to the next emotion,
propel it to the next consequence. And that's just the
way I do everything and always have.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Well, you don't have to read one hundred and twenty
pages of Matt to get to the point. He does
the point about every five to ten to eight pages.
A sequence and sequence and sequence they all build, They
all pay off and then you get a crescendo. And
to me, that's again something where I'm not I don't

(54:47):
feel like I'm spinning my wheels, like, Okay, how do
I make I've had a lot of stuff I've had
to do where I'm like going, how do I make
this interesting for me? With Matt, it's not that anymore.
It's like, Okay, I have to bring up the game
or I have to make the point he's making here.
I have to make it clear with a lot of emotion. Uh.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
I appreciate there's there's also, I mean, you always add
little details of your own that just make it all
the better too, you know, I mean.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
But that's to accentuate the point when we have Tachiana
putting him off, putting them off, putting them off. My
first thought when I got to it is he's not
just gonna do for neck, He's gonna do it everywhere
because he's been.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, he's referring to what he's finding against the last bride.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
He had to go on for such a long time,
and it was only.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Gonna look at it the second or third time I realized,
oh shit, he's bitten there like six times all over
the place. You know, Yeah, I just I he's just
gnawing at her.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
He's just so so every guy I knew would get that,
if they caught it, he would get it.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
But then in the count when he's in London, you know,
there's you'll see him walking along and there's a trail
of rats behind him where you see him. You know,
he's sitting at a cafe at a couple of points, and
he gets up and leaves and there's insects crawling all
over where he had touched, you know, And that wasn't
in the script. That's all kel like, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
But Matt always make you make it always clear his corruption. Yeah,
you always make sure you say that all the time.
So somewhere I want to add to that to someone
to just they'll see it and go, yes, he would
be that way there. They just would be there.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Yeah, it's just but those are the things that happen
when I'm drawing.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
It's nothing he's commanding. They are drawing. They are drawn
to his dark light. You know. Yeah, we have another
and I won't reveal what it is, but an account.
We have another kind of significant, a couple of significant
moments of that of a character being drawn to his
darkness and not able to resist themselves. Uh, one of
the one of the aspects of you know, as I said,

(56:50):
it's so highly analyzed and annotated and such. There's some
big debate amongst Dracula scholars as to what year the
events fully took place, because the books published in eighteen
ninety seven, and at the end of the narrative, one
of the journal entries says it's been seven years since
the characters faced and defeated Count Dracula, so that would

(57:12):
put it in eighteen ninety But there's no indication as
to when these journal entries were written in comparison to
the publication of the book, so various scholars have various
takes on it. I ended up siding with Leslie Klinger,
who wrote the new annotated Dracula, that it takes place
in eighteen eighty eight. And I did that for a
very specific reason, and jes don't find out why.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Yes, that actually is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yes, I think if we know Victorian London eighteen eighty eight,
some thing's come in to mind. So I think that's great.
That's that's why I'll wait to wear off the air and.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Then I will mcgilbert Sullivan came out. It was Guilbert.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Is all right and right obviously Halloween season here. We
are first of all for people who back the kickstarted
by the way you graduations, My guy, you got twenty
eight days to go, more than exceeded your your goal.
And it's so.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
But our goal is a joke. Our goal is six
hundred and sixty six top heyl say it, but no, I'm.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Really glad that those thousand people have a thousand plus
people have responded so well for a newbie that is
hearing this or watching this and now wants to get
in to get the like obviously, I know you're offering
or I'm assuming you're offering volumes one and two in
the current campaign as well. Would they get them? Would

(58:41):
they get them in advance of the third volume.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I'll depend on our existing stock. We have plenty of
issues with plenty of book one. We might need to
go back to press with book two. But you will
get them. You'll get them before you get book three.
Put it out.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Yeah, that's a good question, Jo, because I've been asked
that a lot, because there's people and as soon as
I do it, they'll good bye all three, and I
guess they can get them that they're hard to get,
and to Matt's credit, I think he's built this thing's reputation.
I'd love to say me, but the story is so
original and everything is story, whether it's movie or comics,

(59:21):
it's story first, story first, story first.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
But it's letting McCartney. Dude, you needed McCartney to write
that bridge in that.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
But I think it's so. I was talking about ideas earlier.
Ma's ideas are that good where you just you're captivated.
I was reading a script, no pictures.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
So but to go back to your question there, John, Yes,
they can get the books wanted to. The Kickstarter campaign,
when you point out, is the only place to get
the hardcovers, and we have with all three volumes, although
I don't know how many we have of the previous
but with each campaign and each volume, each book, we've
offered three editions, a cover by Kelly, a variant cover

(01:00:03):
by me, and then a limited, signed and numbered edition
as well. But if you are not prone to uh,
if for some reason you don't dig kickstarters, you don't
want to get into that realm. And there are plenty
that don't dark Horse Comics then releases a trade paperback
version that you can get either online booksellers online or

(01:00:23):
your favorite lcs. That those the trade paperbacks come out
about a month after backers receive our uh. So our
imprint is called orlock Press for obvious reasons, and UH
and you get the the UH once UH the orlock
Press backers, the Kickstarter people get their hardcover editions. Then

(01:00:47):
about a month later, the trade paperback edition is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
I think why so many people also want the hardcovers
is to be perfectly honest. And yes, I keep praising
that he's made something good, but they've become collectible. They're impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Now I've looked for some to I figured, okay, I'll
go on along and get something, and you can't. And
if you do, they're through the roof.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
So you need because I you know, I I have
I have a bunch.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
I don't want to I don't want to give up
all mine, so I go and find that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Well, just let me, I'll we got in this urge
in it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
So it's no that and that's because I'd like them
to go to people ordering it. But but I have
friends who have stores. I have friends who are in
and they said, no, these are really expensive now if
you can find one. So Matt's the thing that I
was happy was with the third one is you know,

(01:01:39):
your first book will do great, if it's going to
do great, if like anything, first issue, and the second
one did really really well too, and that that I was, wow.
But the third one started better than the second one,
and that I put on that because now people know
what Okay, now we get it, and now what we
know what's going on and we.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Got now we're established, you know, with book two it's like,
you know, can lightning strike twice?

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
No? My wife, My wife said that last night. She
didn't even know any of this, She doesn't know all
that that. She just said, Jesus. She goes, this, this
is doing but I know this is doing better than
the second one. And the second one was a home run.
And she goes, this is because Matt's done. She got
because I'm a drilling in her head. It's story, story, story, story,

(01:02:23):
you know, it's got to be or because that's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
The stories, what resonates stories, what you think about in bed,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
But the story is so filled with so many ideas
that when you read it, Matt, this is true. You
start thinking about it, and that's what I was doing.
I would read to go that, yeah, I hadn't thought
of that, or that's a good point. So that keeps
going on, and then that becomes a book. You go
back and say, I'm going to read that again because

(01:02:48):
those things resonate, got it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
These are all just things that I felt like I
had an answer from the book, you know, I mean
the book. The book has a lot of great ship,
but it's got a lot of stuff. It's like, well,
why why is that?

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Like that seven years no one is asking the questions
Matt asked, And like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
For instance, in uh uh in the novel, once Harder
gets the novel, Dracula's old at that point, he's decrepit looking.
It's almost like he can't get fresh blood, you know,
And yet the brides aren't. The brides are young and
beautiful looking, and why is that? And he he speculates,
perhaps it has something to do with, you know, their

(01:03:25):
lunar cycle as he puts it, you know the fact
that they are they are of the moon. Maybe maybe
that's he doesn't know why.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Yeah, but you know, and I like that he doesn't
know why. I like that not everything is known to
him either. Yes, so it leaves the door open for speculation. Uh,
you know, if Matt were two, for example, you know
Soren's not in the book enough, I'm going to write
a book about Soren because I want to know what

(01:03:52):
Soren was up to through all these actions. It he
would do the same thing where you go, hey, I
never thought of that before. You know that. That's because Tracula.
I never thought of those things. He's just there and
then he goes away, and you you heard little bits,
but I didn't think much of it. And then Matt
would just start saying, but haven't you ever wondered?

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
And I go, here's here's another one. Why is he
known as Count Tracula? Yeah, like, how did he get
that title? He wasn't That wasn't his title way back
in the in the fifteenth century. Yeah, he was, well,
he actually was called a voivode, which is a Eastern
European term for a warlord, a warlord prince. Basically, Yeah,

(01:04:33):
how did he get the moniker of count? Somebody would
have to bestow that upon him, And if he's a vampire,
nobody's gonna like, you know, you are now Count Dracula,
and we we have it at the end of the
book too, that he he basically takes that name on
himself to deal with the English. He was like, the
English are very class oriented, as is proper, he says, uh,

(01:04:54):
but uh, but they'll respond to this, and if I
go with something like a title like a count, it
won't draw as much attention calling myself a king or
a prince. So it's tactical and yet it's self generated
and it explains how he's Count Dracula, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
And it opens doors so he can be invited everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Yes, yep. How how many pages was the original Stoker novel?

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Oh it's about four hundred, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Okay, because I was going to say, and again, you know,
everything I think of as always an as as Wells
pointed out, we think of the play. We don't think
of the real novel and everything. But there you go, okay,
because honestly, guys, I was going to give.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
You because the play, the play is what turns it
into more of a drawing room mystery, you know, So
it gives him those evening clothes and that kind of thing.
It's what the Bell Lagosi film is based upon the
stage play. But like, here's a for instance that from
the book that most people don't ever consider because it
has now become part of vampire lore in general. Uh,

(01:05:55):
he does not die in sunlight. Sunlight does not make
him burst into flames. M h. That was a an
invention of nos Feratu, the first film version, which was
a illegal adaptation, unauthorized adaptation, and they were basically taking
incorporating German folklore of trolls in sunlight it turned into stone,

(01:06:16):
you know, so sunlight destroys evil. But in the book
he can walk around in the daylight, no problem. He's
just he doesn't have his full vampiic powers. He can't
transform into things. He's not as physically strong. But I
don't know how well you remember the Coppola film version.
I have a real love hate relationship with that one.
But the first time Gary Oldman as Dracula meets Mina

(01:06:39):
when on a writer's Mina it's on the streets of
London broad daylight.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
And in Langella's he's out on an overcast day.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, yep, oh I forgotten that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Sure, Yeah, crazy, honestly guys that Yeah, you know, Christopher,
although it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Is sunlight that burns him up at the end, and
that one sunlight does does hurt him.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
Yeah, well he had a big, big thing through his heart, so.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Yeah, that too. But the sunlight's burning him up when
he's up in the air there above the ship.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
Yeah, but yeah, that has.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Just become standard vampire lore now. And yeah, not in
the book.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Interesting really, because again that I was going to give
you guys credit for taking something maybe that was only
two hundred pages and you're, you know, already on three
hundred or whatever. Now you said there's going to be
at least another one, at least another one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
And we have plans for some other things beyond that,
which we'll have to remain mysterious for now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
But honestly, though, I truly not being nice guys like
you said, And Matt, you're so right to point to
the other great duos and stuff. But it is so
great that you guys have found this project to really
come together on and and it's great to hear that
whatever is planned beyond Dracula, if it's still within that

(01:07:48):
sphere or you're going other places. I think that's wonderful
and I'm so glad And and is there enough time
to do other projects if you guys want to do,
you know, do other things beyond the duel tell so much.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
He's he's working mainly on Dracula, but I'm doing some
Grendel stuff right now.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
So aside from that, I always have it in my
mind that through Orlock, I'll be doing Dracula. But Matt
finds someone he wants to work with and put something
through Orlock, I'm fine with that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Yeah, we might brandch Orlock off into publishing other people's works.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Yeah, in fact, I would hope so that, Honestly, I
would hope. So I would like that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Are there are there other I mean again, this is
this is what's great about kickstarter, truly, and I mean
prior to this, had you done kickstarters in the past either.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Now, And you know, I've I've been in the independent
end of the business since the very beginning, you know,
and this just seemed like, well, this is an all
new model, you know, an all new publishing model, and
let's give it a try. And luckily it worked out great.
And I will say it worked out great because we
had the smarts to know how stupid we were about
it and to hire people. May people will help us.

(01:09:04):
So we have our PR firm, super Fan Promotions, and
James Aquilon from Monsters Press runs the campaign. So okay,
really good help.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Yeah, Matt had originally want to go through a publisher,
but we kept running into roadblocks and all the crap
that goes with it. And finally I remember telling Matt
they're not going to publish what he's writing there. There's
going to come in and do that, and it might
be good to look into something like that. And Matt said, well,
what do we know about this? And I said, well,

(01:09:34):
I'm seeing other people do it and they're easily.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
You know, there's big idiots as we are.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Yeah, so it's got to be And so Matt looked
into it and said, okay, I think I think that's possible.
Are you willing to do that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
And you know, through my own I reached out to
some of the creators I knew who had done it,
and they said, okay, here's how we did it. We
knew how to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Yeah, And Matt said, look, it's going to be however
time and I would and I said, no, I get it,
and says, and I would like it to be done
or close to it done. So from when we finish,
it can be in people's hands before the next one.
So I knew it was going to be that kind
of a but but you know, I've done this long
enough that my biggest fear was being bored, and my

(01:10:20):
second is being disappointed and bored. And I knew with this,
I'm not bored and I won't be disappointed. And the
books are the thing when when when Matt and I
are dead, these are our headstones, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Yeah, And I'm just so glad that. You know, again,
we we mentioned earlier, how you know we had we
had circled around each other looking for a project together
for literally decades, decades, and and uh, and I'm so
glad we waited for it to be exactly right. You know.
When I first called, when I first called Keel and said,
you know, hey, are you serious? Are you serious? Serious
about us doing something? Because I think I got it.

(01:10:55):
I think I got the perfect thing for us. But
it's going to take five, six, maybe more years, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
And I thought I thought he's talking either something of
his but most likely maybe Batman. That was what I thought.
I didn't know until he then said he I don't
want to say it. I want to tell you, and
he called me up and then he told me what
it was. And within just a few minutes of him

(01:11:21):
doing this, knew this way he was looking at it
and where he wanted it to go. It was all
of maybe five or ten minutes that he had told
me everything he wanted to do. It was still and
it was still nacy, it was enjoy but his general
major points were there, and I was completely captivated. I

(01:11:43):
hung up the phone. I told my wife, I said,
I think I just committed to a relationship, because this
is wonderful. I have not been this. I was that,
and She'll tell me all the time, I've never seen
you this happy. And by that, and by that, I
mean I'm not going, Oh, look what I do today.
I'm not bitching and moaning or grumpy or anything about.

(01:12:05):
You know what I thought it was going to be
and what it was going to turn out to be.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Yeah, I can't wait to get in the studio.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Yeah, I do go down and I sit and I work.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
And in fact, I was just telling him the other day.
I was I was awake in the middle of the
night the other night and I was just thinking, and
I got inspired, and so I whipped out my laptop
and I wrote like the first five pages of book four. Yeah,
like at three o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
You know, Yeah, that's beautiful. Given that you're both Batman
men in your past. I am curious because it's still
about eight or nine years away, but eventually public domain
Batman will be available a form of it. And Matt,
you've danced around that in terms of reinterpreting those first

(01:12:48):
handful of Detective stories as you did, and they're great,
and kel you have a very distinct take. Is there
any itch to go back and do a Batman story
your way, given that you'll be able to within the
parameters of Detective twenty seven?

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
I don't know, Man, You know, I kind of feel
like every time I think about Batman these days, when
both Kelly and I were messing around with the character,
the pit hadn't been dug as deeply and minds mind
as much as it has been, and I just almost
feel like, God damn, so much has been done with
it now. But you could say the same about Dracula, obviously,

(01:13:29):
and you know, a.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Good take on in so Matt, Matt will say that,
and then Matt will say, you know, I know, I
said this, but and yeah, because Matt. This thing I
always had was I always saw him as a forties
the forties now, and I did a lot of anachronistic

(01:13:52):
things within it. I would look at Matt's and I go,
Matt kind of does the same thing he does, he
does his thing. I remember sitting in the office. I'm
in California, but they had me back there and some
of Matt's stuff came in and it was this wonderful
shot of this two page spread of a blimp.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Oh yeah, and Batman's tied to the front of it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Man, I just I just creamed it over that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
I just went, that's what.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
And I just went on and on and on. And
I kicked myself when I got home because I didn't
go and make stats of these things.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
You know, I'm gonna get on my soapbox here. I
have this thing that I keep talking about, which is
that I find all the best pop culture characters they
really only exist best in the time and place and
technology they were originally created. Because you look at Batman now,
he's not a dark knight detective. He's a paramilitary character.

(01:14:50):
He's wearing armor. You know, He's literally now called the
Dark Knight that was that was not his moniker way
back when he was known as the Dark Knight Detective.
You know, a night came and I are an IGT,
not kN I GT and uh. You know, it just
carries through to almost every instance you can think of.
You know, everybody talks about Superman. You know how to

(01:15:12):
the glasses. You know, my parents are from that era.
I have probably two photographs of each of them. Before
nineteen sixty, people's photos weren't taken all the time, you know, Uh,
James Bond, I want James Bond in the sixties. I
want all that. I want all the Cold War paranoia,
and I want all the sexism and racism and all that.

(01:15:35):
It's what it's what makes the character fucked us.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
And when I was doing Batman, every time I see
that there would be a sequence where I could, though
it wasn't asked in any of the scripts I got,
I would always have him use his utility about and
pull out some device. I would always have it like
a man bat catcher. They said, you know one. They said, well,
he throws something catching, and I said, no, he has
a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
He got one, He's already got one.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
It does its thing, and uh, you know, or whenever
I would do the bat Cave, I would have it
like with almost look like a Pittsburgh steel mill.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
It's always pouring things and doing things just to make
it interesting and not look like the last guys. But
it was like, to Matt's point, forties. I was always
thinking forties fifties type of hair.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
And it really carries across the board, you know. Of
course Tarzan doesn't work. Africa still had to be the
dark content at that point, you know what I mean,
it would still be greatly unexplored, you know, unexplored.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Yeah, or Matt, you made.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
These points to me years ago. One of our earliest kinds.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Of My favorite one though, is the shadow. The shadow
only works in a day and a time when every
man in the street is wearing a hat, because otherwise
it's like, well, who's that asshole in the hat? You know,
And it only works in a time and place when
cities still had shadows, because they don't anymore. Every now
is lit up, bright as can be. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
None of that holds back from a great Batman story.
I always tell him if he was doing it now,
people going ape shit, because they would be Batman.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Any of you watch the latest animated series Keith Crusader.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
I did Crusader. I liked it, Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
It's terrific if you haven't, Yeah, I mean it's set
in the forties. The only anachronism is there's, uh, there's
the I stuff in that there are people of color
in like uh mission of Gordon's black you know. Yeah,
but you know that doesn't that doesn't affect anything, of course.
But but the best part of it is Batman's not
the main character. He has no story arc. Uh, He's

(01:17:32):
just he's the beginning, the same at the beginning as
he's the end. Yeah, And it's it's all the side
characters and the villains have the story arcs, which is
the old costume with the little short gloves and the
and the guys all carry Tommy guns. And the cars
are old, old style cars. It's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Yeah. That's the thing I always used to hate about
when when I was doing it was the new cars.
So I always said, screw it, their old cars.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Yeah, you always do old Yeah, I just popping around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
I would still they have a telephone with the wire,
you know, something that was always my uh my rebellion
was say he gets on the phone. I go, well,
they didn't say what kind of phone?

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
And you know, no, I love it. They again, that's
that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Will following through with that too, a billionaire couldn't have
a secret existence like that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
You know, that's going to say also Google Maps, as
you told me years ago that it's like, come on, man,
but the back game is not going to stay, you know, you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Know, there's he would have to wear a full mask.
The facial recognition technology were to analyze that face and
that half face. Again, it only exists. It only exists
back then because.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
It was and that's the thing about realism. It's not
as interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
And that's why, you know, I think eventually that's why
the X Men took over as the predominant kind of
superhero because they want secret identities and they can't have them.
You know, they are continually being exposed. And and that
that's much more contemporary than you know, I read a
cool thing too about how you know, in the old days,
you know, it made sense to have Batman helping the
police department because the police department wasn't a paramilitary unit.

(01:19:13):
You know. Ever since you know, Congress started selling military
ordinance to to local police stations. Now police have tanks
and they're all loaded up with right gear and they know, huh,
what do you say they got drones? Yeah? Yeah, why
do they need Batman? Whereas back in the old days
when they just wore uniforms and had one little gun,

(01:19:35):
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's got to be good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Yeah, you guys are killing me. That's fantastic. Man. Well,
I don't want to keep you guys, I mean, honestly,
you know me, i'd I'd love to talk to you
guys forever. And I also, by the way, one of
the easiest hosting jobs I've ever.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Had, because they're both chatterboxes.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
You guys are the sizzle. Okay, I'm here every day.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
More importantly, we both know how we feel about this project,
you know, and we feel very deeply about it. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
Well, that's the thing that your passion comes through absolutely
for both of you, and your excitement for that. And
I know that people watching and listening, and we really
do have I mean literally we only have had two comments,
but we've had a captive audience. Dennis wants you to know,
Matt that he's such a fan. He thought Tower Chronicles the.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Tower chronicles my great long lost project.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
And it is the hell of an artist. All the best.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
I'll pass that along to him. He'll much appreciate that.
Thank you, Dennis.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
That's cool, Kell. Any any Halloween covers. It seems like
you know this is your season in terms of variant
covers or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Beyond Dracula, my whole focus has been this excellent man.
I don't like anything that really takes me. Early on,
there was a few things I had already committed to,
and I began to really resent it because it was
taking away from I could feel the difference. And uh

(01:20:59):
and it's not a knock on those projects. They were fine.
They were they were perfectly fine. But this is like
a pure thing. Yeah and uh yeah, And you can tell.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
I would say to him just the other day, as
good as books two and one and two were there,
he has this focus and intensity on book three here
that really, you know, I don't want to say blows
books one in two a way, but I really notice
the difference.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
I really, I think because you have it, the tonal change,
the atmospheric change. The character is now different than the
one he was. He could be who he was, he
didn't have to hide it now he does, so it
does change how you approach it, and so I have
to do different things to get across the same. He's

(01:21:46):
a vile, terrible guy, and that's fun. I mean, all
of this is fun. I think when they're all put
in one book, it's going to be spectacular.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
John, go back to that page you were just showing
there my pleasure, buddy. That's where he first makes his
appearance in downtown London. And the captions are too small
for us to read here, but I'll just read them
off from my script. It says, rest assured British Knights
will soon taken on a whole new tenor one of
unbridled terror. Now that Count Dracula has come to town.
I feel more exhilarated than I have in years, indeed centuries.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Nice. Absolutely, you live, exciting, guys, You live now? All right, guys, everybody,
Volume three of Dracula is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Right now, and again you can still get books one
and two. We have all sorts of cool. Uh. We
are offering this is a little unknown fact. Kelly really does.
Kelly really doesn't sell his original art. So Kelly's art
on the market is very rare, and we are doing
ten original eight and a half by eleven pieces that
Kelly is drawing and inking and I am then color painting.
So it's a collaboration between the two of us. And

(01:22:58):
then we're taking those ten and so needles to say,
those are pretty expensive so far as a reward here, Uh,
then we're taking those ten and reproducing them as a
full color eight and a half eleven portfolio, which you
can also purchase. But we've got some t shirts. Uh,
we've got the limited edition, the two hardcover editions. His cover,
my cover. Go check it out. It's live now.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Yep, there you go, everybody. Absolutely no, and that's I'm sorry.
Mentioning a portfolio again makes me think of my days
as a kid and all those.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
Absolutely oh yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah yeah, all right, we're
doing one. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
I have Brent Anderson's Casar portfolio.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, those were the day you know, I
loved him, I used to love Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Are you know Martial Arts did a great Batman one.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Yep, yeah, sure of course. All four guys in the studio,
uh studio absolutely Man Winter Smith Kludon writes and used
to do them all the time. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Ye, So many great ones. Yeah, I missed that. I
do miss that. H Fan Ephemera was so much more
fun than too. Everything was just sort of for the
love of it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Yeah. Well I had that same vibe as music did
in the seventies as well, where it really they just
felt more pure in terms of what everybody was.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
Again, it was there was the eccentricity of everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
No one was and everything wasn't filtered through a marketing
scheme corporation. Yeah, yeah, and and and uh you know,
market research and ship like that. It was like, we're
doing this because we like it and it's cool, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
I do this thinking like, you know, hey, come look
at this. You shouldn't look at this, but you got
to look at this. I don't think like, you know,
any big scheme of it. It's like, uh, Matt, Matt
writes taboo and I love that, so I want, you know,
I want to keep it that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
Way, absolutely, Matt. Any you're working on Grendel, is there
anything stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Yeah? The first U it's a four part long story arc,
each of which is four four issues. Each chapter is
four issues. The first one came out last year. The
next one is scheduled for this coming summer.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Oh, okay, for next summer yep.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
And I'm well ahead. I have that four issue run done,
I have the next four issue run done, and I'm
in the middle of the last four issue run.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
So are you solo or do you have an artist
for it?

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
No, it's me. It's writing and drawing, and then Brendon
and my son is the colorist.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Yes, yes, good job, excellent man. No, and I've enjoyed
you guys worked together on wasn't it The Spirit or
what'd you guys work?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Oh? I didn't write. I just wrote The Spirit, the
the Batman Randall Crossover, the Shadow of the Death of
Margot Lane, the Last Maje series.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
We've done a lot of You did the coloring on those? Yes, yeah, okay, cool? Yeah,
Death of Margot Lane certainly. Absolutely, we just did a.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
We just did you know? Robert Kirkman's very smartly. That
guy's That guy's a marketer, I'll tell you, man. He
you know Walking Dead wrapped up with issue one, ninety something,
three or four, he's reprinting them all in color. Now,
he's having them colored and reprinting them and issuing them
all as individual conics. So they contacted me and wanted
me to do what they called a suite of six

(01:26:15):
color covers, and they said, and if you can, if
you can hook them together in any sort of tapestry
kind of way, that's fine. If you don't want to
do that, that's fine too. So what I did was
I did an animated sequence. So each there's a big
main character in the center of each cover that changes
character from mission to issue. So it's Rick, then it's

(01:26:37):
a Zeus, then it's Ezekiel, then it's me Sean, then
it's Carl, then it's Nagan at the end. But they
they are motions, you know, it's an animated thing. And
then in the back is this giant tapestry of zombie
faces that stretches over the entire thing. On one hundred
and fifty zombie faces. No two are the same. So
that was a lot of fun, lot of a lot

(01:26:57):
of messed up mouths and hanging out eyeballs and exposed
brains and all that kind of stuff. Was a blast,
all the good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Yeah, yeah, outstanding. That's great, guys. Seriously, I'm so happy
for you and I'm so glad this is working as
well as it is.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Well. Thanks for having me on again, John, You're always
a fun gab.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Well, it's it's the reaffirmation from the fans how much
they love you, and.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
I cannot appreciate it more. I think it. I think
it is what you said. I think like I said,
it's one part that you know, Matt hit something that
is resonating, and the other is it's recognizable as a comic.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Yeah that too, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Absolutely, all right, buying three of their Dracula epic continues.
The Kickstarter is live. Now. This is your call to action.
Go out there and back this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
Can we get you to drop the the U r
L for the Kickstarter down in the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
One taking everybody, let me put that in. I will
put it in as a banner and also in the chat.
Let me do that. Let's see here, I'm gonna create
the banner Kids live happening while we're doing Shame on me,
Matt for not doing it sooner. But here, let me
put it in the chat first. Okay, oops, hold on,

(01:28:13):
fat fingers, but I'm working at it. One se Boom,
there we go. Okay, hold on, everybody, all right, get
out of the way. There it is all right. Boom, Hey,
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Gonna say that just came up as a v There
you go there, right, thanks man, Yeah, absolutely, if you're
interested to follow that, you can get all three volumes.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
There, indeed with more to come. Man, can't believe it.
So Kelly Jones Matt Wagner has always I appreciate you
guys talking and uh, you know again you made it
really easy today, So thank you and a lot of fun.
This was all right, everybody, see you guys. That'll do
it for war Balloon Live this week. Lots of great

(01:28:58):
stuff happening next week. Jesse Blaize Snyder D Snyder's kid
from Twisted's Sister, continues to make interesting projects and we'll
be talking to him on Monday about his latest project.
But until then, everybody, stay safe, stay happy, stay healthy,

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