September 22, 2025 • 53 mins
Few writers move as seamlessly between genres and mediums as Greg Pak. In this special two-part conversation, we dive deep into the latest chapters of his ever-expanding career. First, Greg walks us through his brand-new Dungeons & Dragons run for Dark Horse, where he blends his gift for character-driven storytelling with the boundless imagination of tabletop fantasy.
From there, we shift to his work on Dynamite’s Supernatural comic, a series rooted in the show’s first year that captures the raw energy of Sam and Dean’s earliest battles with the things that go bump in the night.
We also revisit his acclaimed Superman run in Action Comics during DC’s New 52 era, exploring how he brought both epic spectacle and heartfelt humanity to the Man of Steel.
And no Greg Pak talk would be complete without a look back—he shares heartfelt memories of the late, great Peter David, reflecting on their shared legacy as writers of Marvel’s Incredible Hulk and how David’s example continues to inspire his own craft. Planet Hulk is celebrating it's 20th anniversary with a new one shot chapter of the epic story. Details on that in Part 2
From there, we shift to his work on Dynamite’s Supernatural comic, a series rooted in the show’s first year that captures the raw energy of Sam and Dean’s earliest battles with the things that go bump in the night.
We also revisit his acclaimed Superman run in Action Comics during DC’s New 52 era, exploring how he brought both epic spectacle and heartfelt humanity to the Man of Steel.
And no Greg Pak talk would be complete without a look back—he shares heartfelt memories of the late, great Peter David, reflecting on their shared legacy as writers of Marvel’s Incredible Hulk and how David’s example continues to inspire his own craft. Planet Hulk is celebrating it's 20th anniversary with a new one shot chapter of the epic story. Details on that in Part 2
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, Welcome back. It's Word Balloon the Comic Book
Conversation show. John Centris. Here a really fun conversation with
Greg Pack. I conducted this on Friday. We had a
lot to talk about. In this first part, Greg talks
about his new run for Dark Horse on a Dungeons
and Dragons arc, and he gives us full details where
it's based on and all the gameplay that he tries
(00:20):
to put into the book. He's also doing a new
Supernatural comic book for Dynamite, and this takes place during
the Winchester's first year, the early years of the Supernatural story.
Greg and I also talk about his run on Superman
in Action Comics with Aaron Cooter. It was during the
New fifty two and if you remember, that was kind
(00:41):
of a Year one Superman where Grant Morrison initially told
the early kind of Action one years of Clark in
a modern spin and Greg was the guy who took over.
So we talked about the details of his Superman run,
and then also we get into talking about The Hulk
and especially Greg's time talking to fellow Hulk writer Peter
(01:04):
David and his influences from David on the Hulk and
just some thoughts in general on the Hulk. He's returning
to Planet Hulk with a news story that's coming up
in part two. But this is part one of the
Talk of Peter David. Okay, but this is part one
of my talk with Greg Pack on today's word balloon.
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(01:26):
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(02:13):
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(02:37):
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Speaker 2 (02:39):
James at sixteen will not be presented this evening, but
we'll return next week at its regular time. Stay tuned
now for a special two hour What Really Happened to
the Class of sixty five?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Word Balloon is brought to you by the League of
Word Balloon Listeners.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Thirty years of work pretty much into this big coffee
table book, which now is benefited by a show like
this where you can see a lot of this stuff
that I newly created and some of the older stuff
I've done.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
If you're here at word Balloon, it's because you like comics, creators, conversation,
pop culture subjects. Would you consider joining the League of
Word Balloon Listeners Patreon dot com slash word Balloon When
you subscribe, you'll also be part of the Word Balloon
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(03:42):
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dot com slash word Balloon. Thank you always for your support,
League of Word Balloon listeners. Welcome back everybody time again
(04:05):
for another word blowing Live the Comic Conversation Show. John
Santris here always helping to welcome break back back to
the show.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Thanks so much for having me pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Absolutely, man, you're you're very busy. You got a few titles.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Out there, Yeah, got a few things going.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
On, absolutely, And we'll play some of the old hits
as well for people who may want to talk about
DC and Marble stuff that is worthy of being on
somebody's bookshelf. But let's let's start off with some fun
stuff from dark Horse doing Dungeons and Dragons.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Huh, yes, yes, this is as It's Dungeons and Dragons
The Fallbacks written by yours truly, drawn by Wilton Santos,
colors by edvon Alvez and Rowlan. I'm sorry, Raoul Angulo,
and it is awesome. The book is a it's based
(04:58):
on a characters that were introduced by Jaylee Johnson in
uh some novels, some Dungeons and Dragons novels, licensed novels.
And I got a call from the dark Horse dark
Horse folks, Spencer Cushing over a dark Horse. I've just
done a lot of stuff with Spencer over the years,
and including some stuff that had Dungeons and Dragons as
(05:20):
sort of a part of it on the proofhery because
I was doing these stranger things books with uh, with
with Spencer and with the characters were playing D and
D and whatnot, so so Spencer knew I was, you know,
like I was an old school D and D player
and had started again recently, and he knew I love
the game. And so when they got the Dungeons and
Dragons Dragons license, they called me up and and here
(05:42):
I am. Uh it was it was. It's a fun
project because it's based on these brand new characters that
were introduced in in these Jaylee Johnson novels, and the
characters are just a lot of fun and uh, but
we we get to do totally brand new adventures and
and they're you know, it's it's it's got that kind
(06:02):
of I think the proudest I am of it is
that it has that anything can happen feel of an
actual D and D campaign, I think, you know what
I mean. Like one of the things I love about
D and D is that you know your dungeon master,
the person who's putting the game together, can make all
these intricate plans of the world and and you know,
(06:23):
have this big thing about what he what he or
she thinks the thing is going to be all about.
And then the players will be like, actually, we want
to go to the store and shop all day, or
we want to or we want to find out what's
the deal with the dog? You know what I mean?
Like like the dungeon master will mention a dog in
the opening scene, and then suddenly the players are like,
I want to pet the dog, and then suddenly that
(06:44):
becomes the whole adventure. Is like although, I you know,
like it's it's probably a wyburn rather than a dog,
but you know what I'm talking about. But there is
that kind of and also like this this thing of
like you get a bunch of fun people all you
know you're playing D. You deal with all your friends
everybody's like picked characters who have different motivations and all
that kind of stuff. And and just because you're all
(07:07):
on the same team doesn't mean it's gonna be smooth.
It doesn't mean it's gonna go you know, like like
people take big swings and these characters do too. And
I think it's I just love the vibe. I love
the the just the sense that anything could go wrong.
These are also, you know, characters on the periphery. These
(07:27):
are not your traditional heroes. These are adventurers and troublemakers.
They're led by a rogue, I'll put it that way.
So there's a lot of fun to be had.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, I was gonna ask about the group, but.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so we uh so the group is
led by Teth, who is Elvin Rogue, and she's I
just love the idea of you know, like back in
the day, we didn't have rogues. We just called them thieves.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Now that player class has expanded and summer thieves. Some
are some of different, like I think Assassin's fall into
that category two. But but uh, but as a rogue,
you know, your your your skills are being sort of
sneaky and deceptive and and and stealthy and all those
kinds of good things, and that's not something we necessarily
associate with the leaders of the troupe. So so that's
(08:17):
a that's just a fun dynamic right there. There's a
fighter named Anson who is sort of like you're the
kind of uh he's he's got a heart of gold
and a sort of gold although his sword is broken
mysteriously sparks with electrical energy. But but uh, but Anson
(08:39):
Anson is kind of like the uh, the sort of
most straightforward and reliable, you know, in that sort of
traditional way of the characters. We have a a a
teethling bard. Uh teethling. That's a that's a newist character type. Yeah,
I know, I see you shaking your head. Back back
when we were kiddo's, they did not have such characters.
But Teethling's let's say, uh, that is a species that
(09:02):
is uh. They they've got they've got horns and and
and sort of devilish characteristics. Not that doesn't mean they're evil,
but uh, but they've but they've uh and uh but
our bard has secrets. But also he's a bard, and
he is uh, he loves attention, and he's something of
a ham although very skilled, but his motivations are maybe
(09:26):
a little more centered around glory and uh and performance
and in what makes a good show rather than what
is necessarily the smartest or most strategic thing to do.
There is a wizard named Casine, and uh. What I
like about her is that she's got a she is
sort of uh, she's got a real capacity for hyper focus.
(09:46):
You know, she likes learning and she and she gets
obsessed with things like she's she's a wizard for a
reason because she likes figuring things out. But again she's
you know, like that's uh. The so she may get
distracted by stuff which is in intensely of interest to
her but may not necessarily benefit the group immediately in
times of crisis. And then there's a bard and Baldric.
(10:08):
The bard is a dwarf bard. Oh no, I'm sorry, cleric.
Why did I say barred? I didn't cleric? Sorry? Sorry sorry, sorry, No,
he's a cleric. But the the fun twist with this, uh,
and a cleric in D and D is like a
you know, it's a it's a religious basically a religious
(10:31):
magic user, right, so it's it's it's a person who
like channel spells from a god. And but Baldric's very
It's a really fun concept for a cleric because the
the notion of Baldric that we got, you know, from
the jay Ley Johnson books, is that he doesn't really
worship the gods. He bargains with them, and he's not
here as sort of like the representative for any one god.
(10:53):
He kind of has developed relationships with a bunch of
different ones and depending on the circumstance, will initiate contact
with one and and it's and and he uh, he
goes about instead of just like you know, channeling that
you know, powers from that god as that God's chosen,
you know, champion, he's negotiating for a little help here
(11:15):
and there, you know, and but there's always a trade off.
And as a result, he's also a little cynical, you
know what I mean, Like he's he's here to he's
here to cut deals, not to pay homage.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And almost almost like a Constantine sort of attitude.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I guess, I guess so maybe I mean I I
he's he's he definitely. I mean, we've got a line
in there where he talks about like, yeah, the gods
are you know, like there's some somebody's talking about like
the gods, and he's like, the gods are not like people,
you know what I mean, He's just like there, but
it's very powerful, very fickle people. And uh, and and
(11:51):
I think it's just a it's a cool angle.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So is the motivation of the you know, not everyone
else obviously is on the same page as far as
they're on individual motivations of being in the group.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, so they've all got their individual things going on.
And I mean, the uh they are, they all have
backstories that that have set them up to be on
their own. So they've come together, you know. It's that
sort of found family thing.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
That that which is also what D and D is
all about. I mean, it's like groups of friends playing
groups of friends, you know what I mean, It's that
the party, you know, and in fact and and so.
But uh, but they've they've got i mean, in terms
of the central conflict and that kind of emotional conflict
in this story. Part of it is like you get
(12:45):
all these folks who have their Yeah, they've got their
own motivations and all that kind of stuff. But then
they show up in this in in this town, and
and they and they're you know, they're looking to they're
looking to score some you know, to to basic pull
off a heist. You know they've heard about like this.
There's a treasure in town or near town, and they
they want to they want to get a piece of that.
(13:07):
And then they find themselves sort of thrust into this
role of of of uh, of possible heroes, you know
what I mean, These these folks who do not think
of that. They're not here to be heroes. But but
there are folks who need some help and what is
this this band of rogues is gonna do? Uh? And
uh there's also a fun dynamic because Tess, who's the
(13:30):
leader of the group, encounters a figure from her past
and uh who and so they're very personal and pretty
darn funny reasons for her to uh get involved in
the conflicts that ensues, which are not necessarily all pure
(13:51):
of heart. So uh, I don't know. The book just
gives us lots of opportunity to play with this notion
of like, you know, different notions of like why people
do things and how to do the right thing in
a world that's full of shades of gray and uh
and what the hell the right thing even is? You
know what I mean when because again, like this is
I mean going back to Baldric in this question of like,
(14:14):
you know, like the gods are not good necessarily, you
know what I mean. And just because you're you're and
and the world itself, the rules of this world, the
rules of the society that they live in, are not
necessarily fair or good, you know. And so they've they've
learned to sort of manipulate those things and get by
and and and do what they need for themselves. But
(14:35):
what happens when bigger responsibilities fall on the shoulders of
this kind of band that's not really looking for that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Is is there a game play aspect in the comic itself.
They're like a map, and you could you know, beyond
the story that you're.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Telling, Well, it is set in in uh, you know,
in the existing Dungeons and Dragons world that's laid out
in a lot of the handbooks and uh, you know,
and and guides, so you could you know, you like,
we're we're mentioning actual places from that continuity and everything,
so you could play the I mean, you could figure
(15:15):
out how to play this game, I mean, play this
play this story within the game. Yes, with I mean,
that's would be easy to do, and you could take
these characters and and figure out their stats and and
run with them that way. The uh, the there we
are not we haven't set up a game that accompanies it,
(15:35):
you know what I mean, Like we we don't have
a module for how to play.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
That, although that's what I was wondering.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Sure, although although who knows, maybe maybe something like that
could ensue eventually. But uh, but yeah, it's it's fun.
I mean, there there are gonna be in some of
the future issues we are gonna have like stat blocks,
game style stat blocks for some of the some of
the characters and creatures that we're we're introducing here.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's that's great. God, dude, as you said, I mean
I was playing D and D briefly in high school
when it was still graft paper.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And and it's it's really been fun watching how big
it got. And I just said, friends that would have
characters within characters like well, I'm I'm posing as a cleric,
but actually, all right, listen, I don't know what I
just want to you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
There were for a long time, I was like, I'm
just gonna be a fighter because I can't keep track
of all the spells. Man, Yes, and uh, you know so,
but it is, I mean, it is. It is funny,
like there's I think I've grown up as being kind
of a I mean, you know, if you talk about
alignment D and D traditional alignment, I think I was.
(16:47):
I've been lawful good to a fault, you know, like
boy scout, lawful good kind of And so when I play,
like I realized over the years lots of times when
I played D and D, I have the most fun
playing like these chaotic characters, you know what I mean,
who are like chatotk neutral to kata good characters who
are just gonna you know who I It's which makes sense, right,
(17:07):
Like you get a you get a cut, loose a
little bit and try different things. So sure, but it's fun.
I mean, I think it's a I've we've gotten some
feedback from uh, from folks who have read it, and uh,
I think the nicest thing somebody said is that it
totally felt like actually it captured that energy of actually
playing the game with with you know, with some of
your fun most fun friends. And that's that's the best
(17:30):
compliment you could get. I will also say that it
is it should be totally accessible to anybody who has
never played the game. Uh in the sense that you
don't have to know like you we're not doing esoteric
references to UH to you know, to stats that you
need to understand and all that kind of stuff. It's
it's it. It should read like another fantasy world kind
(17:52):
of story that you might pick up. So the the
kind this kind of world should be fairly, fairly familiar,
and you don't have to have any special esoteric knowledge
if you are a long term D and D fan
or player, and if you know, you know, like there's
definitely easter eggs and fun little bits here and there
that will will resonate. But hopefully it's a book that
(18:14):
that everybody can get a kick out of.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
When you ran a game, I called it a game.
When you write a comic like this, do you do
you try to like incorporate as much gameplay as you
can within your storytelling.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah. Well, the fun thing about D and D is
that it, you know, like some games, it's really just
all about the action, right, yeah, I mean, like you know,
like but D and D, like the way a lot
of people play D and D is it's role play,
you know what I mean, Like folks are spending I mean,
I mean, I joked about the shopping thing, but I've
literally been on campaigns where it's like, you know, and
(18:51):
the last time last week we met, we like scored
a big heist or whatever, we got a lot of gold,
and then the next session, for two hours, we're just
like going around town going to different shops. I mean,
it's ridiculous. I mean, and of course there's all this
little character stuff going on and little bits and pieces,
but it doesn't have to be like the game itself
(19:12):
isn't all about set piece fights like the like the
character stuff and the fun interplay between you and your
friends as you play the game. That's that's the sweet spot.
So so having you know, being able to, you know,
to to write a book that reflects the vibe of
D and D. It doesn't require you to sacrifice any
(19:33):
good storytelling, do you know what I'm saying. It's like,
it's not like you have to. I mean, definitely we
have really good fun fights, but but but we're you know,
like I think the expectation of the D and D
game is that you're bringing you know, like the character
stuff is paramount, you know, just having fun with these
different characters, putting them in conflict, and you know, and
and and giving them all kinds of challenges, not just
(19:56):
you know, not just magical or or physical challenges, but
all these different interactive character challenges. That's the that's the
that's the gold. And I mean and it's also I mean,
it's always ridiculous to call your own work funny, right,
you know what I mean, Like I don't want to
compliment myself too much or pat myself too much on
(20:17):
the back, but I mean playing D and D I
laugh a lot, you know what I mean, like belly
belly laughs, falling out of your chair laughs. And because
it's just fun, like unexpected things happen, and just the
you know, just the vibe is really great when you've
got a good group. And so we are definitely making
room in this book for for for all those little
(20:39):
quirky moments and the the it's a fun book and
and I think it's a pretty funny book. I think
Wilton Santos's pencils absolutely help enormously with that, because this
is somebody who totally gets all the big action and
all the little interactive moments, and it's just been a
kick in the pants. Hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Have you worked with Santos before?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
No, no, this was the first time. The first time
we uh yeah, the folks at dark Horse dug up,
you know, different samples and Wilton stuff just really jumped
out for having, you know, all that world building and
all that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Character and is it is it five issues?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Four issues?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And then and then yeah, they're but they're big issues,
like they're oversized, not physical, not physically oversized. But these
are pretty thick books, so uh yeah, I mean, which
is nice too, because you know, when you're establishing the
new world, it's nice to have a few extra pages
and also just let everything breathe so we can have
that really great mix of character moments in action.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Is there other back matter that you're gonna have in
the book, as you said, you're gonna do power levels
and things.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That's I yeah, that, I mean, there is some stuff planned.
I don't I don't think we went haywire with that
in the first issue, but but definitely in the in
subsequent issues you'll see some stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
When is it When does it start?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I believe this first issue comes out it's either the
eighth of the fifteenth, I honestly can't remember right now.
I think it's the I think it does come out
on the eighth. I mean it went to press a
while back, so it's ready to go. So I think
I think it does come out on the eighth October eighth,
which and I you know, if all goes well, I'll
have copies of the New York Comic Con. We come
get them from it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
You know, man, That's what I was gonna suggest. Absolutely then,
so hit up Greg at New York Comic I imagine
you'll be the signings at the Dark.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Oh yeah, well I'm gonna have a table in artist Sally,
so you can find me an artist Sally.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Okay, excellent, and another big thing that you've got going on, Supernatural. Yes, yes,
this is uh, the Winchesters are.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Back, exactly. Winchesters are back. This is based on the
TV show that ran for fifteen years and Nate Cosby
over at Dynamite called me up and asked if I'd
be interested, And I actually had not seen much of
the show, so I dug in and within you know,
within a very short a time, I was like, yes, Nate,
(23:01):
I'm absolutely in Uh, it's it's a fun it's kind
of right up my alley. I I had I it's
I mean, how do you describe it? So we're setting
these stories in in uh, in between episodes and towards
the the end of the first season of the show.
So so yeah, so it's fairly early in the show,
(23:25):
and that's a sweet spot. The story is basically about
these two brothers who basically are hunting ghosts and monsters
and all kinds of other creepy Crawley's and supernatural things.
Hence the title of the show the cool Car exactly.
And they in their cool car. Uh. And there's there's
all kinds of back I mean, there's there's a tragic
(23:47):
backstory with their mom and uh and their father and
their fathers this sort of looming figure uh that haunts
them and uh. And but the real dynamics between these
two brothers and they of course drive each other bonker.
There's the sort of college boy brother and there's there's
the kind of kick ass James Deany brother and uh
(24:07):
and they're just a ton of fun, you know what
I mean. Like the show has a really fun vibe
that is not scared of genuine emotion and uh and
and real, you know, real moments of drama between these
brothers and other characters. And it's also not scared of
really goofball humor and uh and just embracing you know,
(24:30):
awkward situations and and fun wordplay and and and just
the dynamics of these brothers getting on each other's nerves.
And uh, it's a real kick in the panster write,
I mean, the other thing of the truth mostar going.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
No, I was just gonna say that I was not
a supernatural watcher either, and then found myself talking to
people that contributed to the show. I talked to Ben
Edlin when he did his French Mistake episode, which is hilarious.
And Jeremy Adam has been on a lot in the
last couple of years, and he of course wrote the
Scooby Doo episode, you know, and Robbie Thompson did Supernatural stuff,
(25:09):
but also the prequel series, The Wind Show.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Okay, cool, cool, cool, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I have I have great respect. I mean in fifteen years, man,
I mean, I get it.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And that's totally right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And I also it's nice to see a ghost Hunter
show that embraces something different beyond the usual city kind
of location.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And the fact that it is kind of this forgive me, everybody,
I don't need any politics when I call it a
Red State horror.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, I mean the the there is a fun vibe
that I appreciate. It's a road show also, you know
what I mean, Like they're they're on the road and
they're going from town to town. They're going to these
little towns, and it's got this very kind of rustic, worn,
analog organic feel, like just the set design and the costumes,
(26:00):
deign and everything, and and it was you know, they
originally the show launched in what two thousand and five, Yeah,
two thousand and five, and so this is before really
before social media, you know. I mean they were like
there was a al messenger and stuff, but you know,
this is I mean, I guess Facebook and stuff had
just launched, but it's before like that's not part of
(26:21):
the show, you know what I'm saying. So they have
a laptop, they can get online. I think there's at
least one episode where they go to an internet cafe
if I'm remembering that right. But but they but it's
not like you know, they don't have like hoods, you
know what I mean, And there's not like they're not
like they're not like dialing into the mainframe. And you
(26:41):
know what I mean, it's it's all about like I mean,
it's it's I've gotten back into analog photography, you know
what I mean. I've got a freaking typewriter, an analog
electric typewriter. Now I'm using Fountain pens, you know what
I mean. Like like I like, I'm totally that dork. Yeah,
I'm actually listening to cassettes again. I'm going to throw
by buying cassettes. I've got a eighties Iowa boom box
(27:05):
that I bought off eBay that's just like the one
I had when I was in high school. Because the
analog sort of everyday tactle stuff is connecting, you know
what I mean, Like you feel connected to the world
and it's it's so there's really something to all that.
And I just dig that the show does that, you
know what I mean, Like it it feels and I
(27:25):
think that's really important with the with a supernatural show,
you know that it that it uh, You've got all
this like weird stuff going on and and so when
it's contrasted with the world that is as down to
earth and tactle as can be. It's feels more real,
you know. And and and also the contrast is more
(27:47):
uh shocking and fun.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So anyway, so all of that is like, yeah, I
mean there's a huge appeal to me and all all
of that stuff too. Also, you know, I grew up
in Texas and and that sort of like, I mean,
I live in New York in Brooklyn now, you know,
like I really don't like driving, but when I was
a kid, like road trips were great, you know what
I mean, And all this kind of you know, and
so uh and also just like the way little towns
(28:11):
have their own little mysteries, like all of that kind
of stuff is really it's great. It's great. It's it's
a it's a really fun thing. I mean. The other
thing that attracted me to it, frankly, is that these characters,
in addition to being having this great fun brother conflict
sibling conflict thing, they're also both really uh they're and
(28:32):
there's a real anti authoritarian vibe to the show, which
I appreciate a lot. Uh They're they are you know,
they're dealing in a very complicated world, you know, full
of shades of gray, which is what I always love. Uh,
where there are you know, forces beyond their understanding that
(28:53):
they're trying to figure out. But also it's like they
are not They've kind of freed themselves from feeling bound
by uh by rules that don't make sense, you know
what I'm saying, And as a result, they break about
twelve laws every single episode. I mean there's there's credit
card fraud from like literally day one, and uh, you know,
(29:14):
they're they're always like impersonating there there they impersonate law
enforcement a lot. They they're they're they're there's a lot
of uh, I mean there's I mean, like as in
as with any mystery show, there's a lot of breaking
and entering by the good guys. And uh, I don't
know there's it is. It's just I like the sort
of gleeful we're just gonna do this thing that's that's
(29:36):
going on here. You know, like these are characters who
think for themselves and uh are aren't scared to get
in a little trouble. Uh And uh it's it's it's
it's fun.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So we got Sam and I forget the other brother's name.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Just Sam, Sam and Dean.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Salmon, Dean and Is Castrio. Is that the angel that
oh so so.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Our show, I mean, our our show, our show, our
our series is set. So we said it in the
first season. We kind of did this on purpose. We
said it before it gets into the kind of the
into the depths of the demonology, you know, as the
show goes on spoiler alert. As the show goes on,
a lot of the mysteries about the the murders that
(30:18):
set this whole thing in motion, are you know, revealed
to be connected to this what you learn as you know,
I mean, there's there's a whole demonology angel I don't
know if you what do you call it angelology? I
don't know. There's a whole eschatology. There's a whole description
of I mean, there's a whole world of angels and
devils and all this kind of stuff. We are not
(30:39):
getting into that directly, so because we're earlier in the series,
and partly that's just a chance, because that we're in
the more of the Monster of the Week sort of
uh stretch where where you know, like anything can happen
in uh, you know, they could end up into you know,
I mean In the first issue we're dealing with there's
(31:01):
a bunch of mysterious fires going on, and there's some
strange supernatural thing behind that. But we've got as as
this thing goes on, you're gonna see, well, what what's
some teases that I can do without spoiling too much.
We're gonna we're gonna have uh uh, We're going to Vegas.
So there's gonna be some gambling. There's some Vegas stuff.
There's gonna be uh uh wizards in the woods. There's
(31:25):
gonna be uh librarians, very scary librarians. Get ready for
that one that that may be that mean my my favorite.
And there's uh oh, we're also we're else gonna have
some cowboys, so keep your eyes. But but you know,
so we have a chance to play around different genres.
Every every issue is gonna be a news story. I
(31:45):
mean there's also yeah, there's all really we're really kind
of sticking to that episodical uh there is, yeah, exactly.
So it's gonna be you know, it's gonna be you know,
fast paced and and uh and you know, far from
decompressed storytelling. We're gonna do you know, we're gonna We're
gonna cover some good ground and and have a lot
(32:05):
of fun at a at a good pace. There is
a bigger story that takes place over these first five issues,
but it's also you know, new locations and meeting new
people every single and new monsters every single issue. So
it should be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
That's great, man. No, I love the I love the
idea behind it. And I don't know why I am
fascinated by those kind of Highway sixty one, you know, yeah,
when there's when there's no lights on the on the highway.
I mean it's just yeah, like crazy stuff can happen.
I always say I would do Hank Williams and Lefty Frizelle,
(32:46):
the Old countries.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, yea, yeah, yeah, like going.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
From Hockey Talk City to Hockey Talk City.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Counters supernatural ship.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
That's a great That's that's a great pit right there.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
There's a free idea everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
But no, I really and again, I sometimes I feel
like I sound like I'm kind of saying, but I
am being being an urban guy. I just say that
really is a great opportunity to tell these weird stories, because,
like you say, these small towns do have their little
secrets about them and you know, yeah, you know, hey,
the Bartenders are Werewolf. I'm you know, that's great.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, that's it. Uh yeah, it scratches. Uh, I mean,
it scratches an itch for me. I I grew up
in like I said, I grew up in in Dallas.
I was a boy scout. I spent all, you know,
huge amounts of time outdoors, camping and and all that
kind of good stuff. And uh so I was always
really attracted to, you know, outdoor adventure, you know what
(33:47):
I'm saying that that kind of storytelling. Uh. And at
the same time, now i live in New York City,
and uh and I've written tons of stuff and and
and a lot of stories in my head revolve around cities,
you know what I mean. But but it is, it
is a kick, and particularly working for Marvel, you know,
like I you know, so much Marvel stuff is set
in New York City and that's been it's great living
(34:09):
in New York City and writing Marvel comics. That's been
a lot of fun. But but yeah, I've always psyched
when I have a chance to do something that's that
spreads out a little bit. I mean, Planet Hulk was
like that right, you know what I mean? Like absolutely,
uh and and the you know, the the Fallbacks book
also kind of digs into that, and so it's it's
nice to nice to nice take a little road trip
(34:31):
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Excellent. Here's some comments from the chat. Oh cool, Dennis Hoffman,
he's a fan of your work and your action comics
run with Aaron Kuter was truly spectacular. Also, Ronan Island
is fantastic, Giannis is Greek is such a talent. Absolutely, man.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, I've been incredibly lucky. Both those runs were just
so much fun. And I'm really glad he gave the
shout outs to those artists because those books would be
nothing without those artists. Those those artists, I mean Aaron.
Aaron and I actually co wrote, uh. When we started
off with me writing and him drawing, and by the
end of it, we were co writing the action comics.
Look at you, look how prepared you are? You got
(35:12):
a graphic. But yeah, we were co writing that book
by the end. And it absolutely was a group effort.
And uh, I just love I loved his Clark and
uh and and Lana in particular, and the whole vibe
that he brought to it and uh yeah, and and
Janni Malone Malone Janis who was the artist for Ronan Island. Similarly,
(35:33):
just great artists, so much fun. By the way, I
need to plug Edar Messias who is the artist for Supernatural. Uhh,
very incredible job. He uh he's I worked with him
on the Captain America book, the Sam Wilson Captain America
book that we just did. Uh uh and uh it's
great to you know, keep going with him. Yeah, that's
his cover right there.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
He drew that cover beautiful.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, for the video audience, the audio audience. That's why
you got to go to.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Exactly. Oh yeah, I just I just want to say
it was it was fun because uh yeah. On both
the projects I've worked with ed Or on, there's been
these little syncret you know, like like moments of serendipity
where it's like, of course you're the one who's writing
this book or who's drawing this book. And uh with
(36:23):
the Captain America book, I co wrote that with Evan Narcis,
And there was a certain point when we were talking
about about Sam Wilson's falcon, you know, because he's got
a he's got a he's got his I mean, he's
the falcon, but he's got a hawk. Sorry, it's called
red wing and and uh. And we were talking about
like what kind of bird it is and all of that,
(36:43):
and turns out that it's been established in continuity that
it's a very specific Brazilian Brazilian bird, Brazilian raptor, and
editors like, oh, yeah, I know that bird because Eder's Brazilian,
you know what I mean. And it was it was
just really kind of fun. He was like immediately like yes,
that's that's were good. And then with Supernatural, like this
the show. He loves the show. I think it's like great, Yeah,
(37:06):
he's been watching it for years. I think it's like
his comfort show that he puts on on these drawings.
So it's kind of awesome to think of him being
able to, you know, put on his comfort show and
then actually draw the actual book, you know what I mean.
So it's been cool.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I want to ask about Superman because you were doing
Superman and that New fifty two period, and I'm always
curious because they're really they they really made an effort
to distinguish that Superman from classic Superman, to the point
where when they brought classic Superman back and everything. That
(37:41):
was a big deal. So as as a guy writing
the book when it was happening, was that like did
that add an extra layer of either difficulty or opportunity?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I would I would definitely classify that as opportunity in
the sense that it was awesome because we had two things.
We had a Superman that was really based on the
very earliest Superman comics when Superman was a I mean
(38:13):
he's essentially a socialist, you know, a big city crusader
and his big animal. Yeah. I mean he's like he's
like fighting cops in his first you know, and and
and corrupt politicians and all that kind of stuff. And
that's what Grant Morrison did when they took over the
book or when they started that book. That was and uh,
(38:34):
which was just cool, you know, I mean that that
was that was that's fun and new. And also it
was a very young Superman. Uh. And this is not
a Superman who's been who's been out there being Superman
for years. So it wasn't Uncle Superman. It was it
was like your older cousin Superman, you know what I mean.
And and in a way that like like uncle Superman
(38:54):
knows what what time it is at all times, and
you know he's gonna sort of, you know, kind of
give a little wink and guide you and and you know,
smooth things over and not make you feel bad, but
also let you learn for yourself. And you know what
I mean like that, I love that Superman, but this
Superman is your this is your this is your older
cousin Superman, who's who's gonna eventually become that kind of
(39:16):
uncle Superman. But right now he's got like he's he's
more impulsive, he's less experienced, he's gonna screw things up more,
you know what I mean. He's got totally got a
heart of gold, but he's also figuring stuff out. He's
not quite sure how to manage stuff. Uh. And that
was just a really great That was a great character
(39:36):
to write because there's just so much opportunity for you know,
for great character moments and for for him to figure
stuff out. That's that's drama, that's gold.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I was gonna remind me of when you when you
know the dynamic between Clark and Lana that you got
to explore.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, well, we we were so Lois was off the
table for us because Lois was being featured in the
other book. I was.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
During the run.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Honestly, when she when she exposes you know that truly
no disrespectful what you guys were doing. But I'm like,
that's understand so please continue.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah so so I yeah, so so I was. I mean,
I I barely wrote Lois. I mean, she just wasn't.
We weren't able to feature her. But I was like,
we need, you know, like Superman is nothing without a
supporting cast, and we need we need we needed to,
you know, to to put normal people around him. And
Lana was perfect because this is a young Superman who's
(40:44):
really new to the game. And who else is he
closest to other than Lana? I mean, you know, like
that's the person he was he's going to have the
most history and relationship with and uh and it was
really uh. And and then we we knew that we
wanted to kind of give her a job, you know
what I mean, and and and give her give her
a little more you know, expertise, like yeah, yeah. And
(41:07):
and also it's like so that she had something that
she was bringing to the table too, you know what
I mean, like in terms of like in adventures and
things like that that she wouldn't just be you know, uh,
the person to be rescued, that she'd have something going on.
And and Aaron, I think was Aaron's idea was like
because I think Aaron has studied electrical engineering, so he
was like, well, what about you know, engineering ors, And
(41:27):
so she became an electrical engineer and that was like
her thing, and it you know, and it totally fit
into the you know, to the plot which involved of
our first storyline, which involved like a you know, kind
of a Kaiju style monster that had electrical you know
powers and all that. So she's helping her figure that
all out. But but the real juice of that was
just this dynamic between her and Clark, because she's she
(41:51):
you know, she knows the secret. She knows that he's Superman,
but she also knows he's Clark Kent, you know what
I mean. And so he's just like he's he's just
he's her buddy, you know what I mean. And and
so she's got you know, she has uh, she he's
not like he's not Superman to her. And and and
(42:11):
so that gives you know, that gives h that relationship
a chance to it's a relationship with a real person,
you know what I mean, who can call you on
your bowl and who also may have you know, different
motivations and different you know, angles than you do. And
and we you know, we played that up in that,
like she she has certain instincts that uh and they
(42:33):
come into conflict over those things because because also, yeah,
he is he is fundamentally just Clark Kent, but he
also has a different experience as Superman is somebody who
has all this power and all this responsibility to steal
from another from the other side of the uh the
comics world. But he with all that power, he has
(42:57):
a different angle on things. I mean, not to spoil
too much, but there's there's scenes where she's like, you
just got to destroy that monster, and he's like, wait
a minute, you know what I mean. She and like,
when you have so much power, when you can't actually
be hurt by whatever it is you're going up against,
or can't be killed or whatever, you kind of have
a responsibility to figure out if you could settle this
(43:19):
and reach somebody instead of just beating them down, you know.
And uh so, so all of that was great to explore.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Did you so obviously that I'm sure you saw some
symmetry between what you were doing in Superman and the
movie that just came up.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I have to tell you, I still haven't seen the movie,
which is ridiculous. I know, I know it's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Well, as you know, today it started streaming on that so.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Well there you go, so now I'll have the chance
to finally see it. I h yeah, it's we were
we were joking before about how hard it is. I mean,
you know, to to that like this. The summer has
been packed, and uh so I've I've missed out on
a lot. I've basically tried to keep keep to my deadlines,
but I've I've missed out on a lot of a
lot of things. So I'm eventually gonna catch up. And Okay,
(44:07):
I hear it's pretty good. So it is.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I enjoyed. I enjoyed it, and honestly, there are without
spoiling it all just from a demeanor standpoint, even though
Lois is there and everything, this is a younger Superman. Yeah,
I and and yeah, so it's uh, you know, that's
that's good and I like that aspect of it. James
has a comment he wants to know any super Huloc
(44:33):
content you're gonna have to explain that to me. The
former Tumbler crowd, consider you, if you do what is
super wholock?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I I am fairly certain that he's referring to a
a supernatural thing. And uh now, folks will be annoyed
with me because I don't know all of the uh
uh you know, because I I don't know it detail,
you know what I mean, So I can't actually give
(45:02):
you a solid definition. So I'm I'm I'm still learning.
But uh but I'm guessing that, well, you know what,
I just googled it and it says super who Lock
is the name of the fandom that is an inexplicable,
inexplicable that is, that's that's what the thing says, an
inexplicable code conjoining of three other large TV show fandoms,
namely Supernatural Doctor Who in Sherlock.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Okay, we.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Learned something. I think, I think, well, I think the
I think I think the honest answer is our the
license that Dynamite has probably doesn't cover us making Doctor
Who in Sherlock characters part of the story.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So public domain.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah, but I definitely yes, I think, and I don't
think they're talking about public domain Sherlock. I think they're
talking about TV show Sherlock. So, but but you've given
me something, You've given me a fun rabbit hole to
dig into here. So uh so may not be able
to satisfy this directly, but uh but uh but but
we will enjoy it together.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
How's that from a from a fan standpoint? Were you
a Doctor Who? And were you a coverbat Sherlock fan?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Oh? Sorry, I said, I'm sorry. I got distracted there
a second.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Oh no, worries man, That's all right, I'm born.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I no, no, no, I got my my my eyes
went to the super Who Lock thing there and I
got to I've got a little doing that immersed. Sorry,
go on. No.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I was wondering, though, for the other two components beyond Supernatural,
A covert Sherlock and a Doctor Who fan.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I have not watched much of either of those shows either,
the shows that I have watched the most recently. And
I again, I am for somebody who works in pop culture.
I am sadly behind on much pop culture, largely because
when you sign up, correct, when you sign up to
write comics, you're signing a two monthly comics. Uh, you're
(46:57):
signing up for homework for the rest of your life.
So I always on deadline, and it is hard for
me to see a movie, much less watch a whole
TV a whole season of a TV show or something
like that. Uh. And a lot of the pop culture
I consume is because it relates to whatever project I'm
working on, you know what I mean, Like I need
to bone up on that. But the stuff that I
(47:20):
have watched recently include like I'm I'm a sucker for Foundation,
I uh, sucker for and or I mean probably by
and I'm all caught up on both of those. I've
actually watched those. I got probably the TV show that
was that blew my mind the most over the last
I mean this is already old, but over the last
(47:42):
four four years or so was Station eleven that I
just actually blew me completely out of the water. I
just love that show. What what streamer was that A
that my gosh, I don't remember what streamer that was on.
This was the it was the it was the show
that was about I mean, it was based on the
novel Station eleven and it's it's basically it came out
(48:04):
basically when the pandemic was beginning, and it was about
a pandemic. You know, so in a lot of ways
you would think this is not really comforting and I
don't really want to watch this, but the but the
vibe of I mean, it was also just really funky
and strange and and quirky and in not a sort
of goofy pretentious way, but just in a real sort
(48:25):
of like this is what happens in a bizarre world.
In it was very human level to me, but also
very specific and weird. I mean, ultimately, it's like a
big part of the show just centers around this kind
of a post disaster world where traveling Shakespeare show is
a troop of Shakespeare players are traveling around this uh,
(48:46):
you know, this post disaster world. I mean, and it's fun.
It's just about people and it's about relationships and it's
it's I just loved it. I loved it so again
outdoor outdoor adventure to a certain extent.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
But but yeah, that's interesting, I know, and it's funny.
When when the pandemic hit, I was wondering and I
think I saw it that a lot of people were
going to outbreak the dust.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Oh yeah, I didn't watch that. I remember what I
remember people were doing that, and I didn't watch that
again until actually about six months ago. I was, yeah,
I finally I find yeah, and I'm glad I didn't
watch that again earlier. I don't think that would be
Weirdly enough, yeah, weirdly enough, Station eleven is I I
(49:35):
realized it's somebody asked, what's your comfort show? And I
and I actually Station eleven is kind of that, which
sounds ridiculous for like in a in an ongoing pandemic,
for a show about a pandemic to be a comfort show,
but it does have It is about characters who like,
there's some people trying to help each other, you know
what I mean, Like that's really at the core of it.
(49:57):
And uh, and there's something just very what a what
a beautiful fantasy? That is that a world in which people.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Help people actually each other?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
But no, I mean that is that's that's the world
I believe in, and I think that's the world we
can make happen. But it's nice to see it reflected
in in work sometimes like that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I meant, I couldn't bring myself to watch The Last
of Us or are play the game because it's, oh yeah,
it sounds like a big downer man, it's I And again,
I know it's critically acclaimed and I'm thrown to people
who love it, not for me, so I understand for
the people are like, yeah, maybe not but uh you know,
also though I will say that truly, beyond DC and Marvel,
(50:39):
you've always done a great job with licensed property.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Oh yeah, it was great. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah,
it's it's fun. I mean, I you know, I came
out of film. Uh you know, I went to n
y U, I made I made short films, I made
big movie or not big movie. I made an independent
movie and uh and I and I'm you know, I'm
always still working on film projects you don't hear about
because you know, you don't hear about until we actually
(51:03):
get a made. But uh it's always something. But but so,
I don't know, I have a real affinity for for
filmed entertainment. And uh so when I had a chance
to you know, do these adaptations, it kind of made sense,
you know what I mean, like the uh the also
you know, what's you know, what actually makes doing these
(51:23):
kinds of things sometimes easier than certain comics projects is
that like when I worked on the Firefly books, I
had maybe you know I had. I had one one
short TV season to watch in one movie in order
to get pretty much caught up, you know what I
needed to know. I'm ever I've written, I wrote, I
(51:44):
wrote The Hook for five years. I will never be
able to catch up on everything about the Hulk. You
know what I mean? Think how many things like you
think about it? If you're writing the x Men, there's
just so there you You can spend the rest of
your life writing the x Men, and you will be
hard pressed to catch up up with all of the
X Men media that's been produced. And yes, yes, speaking
of Hulk, you brought up the Planet Hulk cover the
(52:07):
return to Planet Hulk. Shall we plug that we talk
about that by all means.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Okay, little Tea's there, but don't worry. That's the end
of part one, but part two should be uploaded.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Make sure you check your feet if you only see
Greg poc Park part one, say that fast three times.
But Part two of my talk with Greg is posting
within the hour, So again, if you don't see it
right now, it should be there shortly and you'll be
able to continue this wonderful conversation with Greg. We talk
about Planet Hulk, the classic, but also a new chapter
(52:38):
that he has done for the twentieth anniversary of Planet Hulk.
And we also talk about Greg writing Asian characters and
especially in today's world, how important representation is. It's a
tightrope and Greg explains in Part two, so make sure
you join us. Then thanks a lot for listening to
word Balloon until next time. Word Balloon is a copyright
(52:58):
feature of Shaky Production, Copyright twenty twenty five.
Hi, everybody, Welcome back. It's Word Balloon the Comic Book
Conversation show. John Centris. Here a really fun conversation with
Greg Pack. I conducted this on Friday. We had a
lot to talk about. In this first part, Greg talks
about his new run for Dark Horse on a Dungeons
and Dragons arc, and he gives us full details where
it's based on and all the gameplay that he tries
(00:20):
to put into the book. He's also doing a new
Supernatural comic book for Dynamite, and this takes place during
the Winchester's first year, the early years of the Supernatural story.
Greg and I also talk about his run on Superman
in Action Comics with Aaron Cooter. It was during the
New fifty two and if you remember, that was kind
(00:41):
of a Year one Superman where Grant Morrison initially told
the early kind of Action one years of Clark in
a modern spin and Greg was the guy who took over.
So we talked about the details of his Superman run,
and then also we get into talking about The Hulk
and especially Greg's time talking to fellow Hulk writer Peter
(01:04):
David and his influences from David on the Hulk and
just some thoughts in general on the Hulk. He's returning
to Planet Hulk with a news story that's coming up
in part two. But this is part one of the
Talk of Peter David. Okay, but this is part one
of my talk with Greg Pack on today's word balloon.
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Speaker 2 (02:39):
James at sixteen will not be presented this evening, but
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the Class of sixty five?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Word Balloon is brought to you by the League of
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Thirty years of work pretty much into this big coffee
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League of Word Balloon listeners. Welcome back everybody time again
(04:05):
for another word blowing Live the Comic Conversation Show. John
Santris here always helping to welcome break back back to
the show.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Thanks so much for having me pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Absolutely, man, you're you're very busy. You got a few titles.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Out there, Yeah, got a few things going.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
On, absolutely, And we'll play some of the old hits
as well for people who may want to talk about
DC and Marble stuff that is worthy of being on
somebody's bookshelf. But let's let's start off with some fun
stuff from dark Horse doing Dungeons and Dragons.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Huh, yes, yes, this is as It's Dungeons and Dragons
The Fallbacks written by yours truly, drawn by Wilton Santos,
colors by edvon Alvez and Rowlan. I'm sorry, Raoul Angulo,
and it is awesome. The book is a it's based
(04:58):
on a characters that were introduced by Jaylee Johnson in
uh some novels, some Dungeons and Dragons novels, licensed novels.
And I got a call from the dark Horse dark
Horse folks, Spencer Cushing over a dark Horse. I've just
done a lot of stuff with Spencer over the years,
and including some stuff that had Dungeons and Dragons as
(05:20):
sort of a part of it on the proofhery because
I was doing these stranger things books with uh, with
with Spencer and with the characters were playing D and
D and whatnot, so so Spencer knew I was, you know,
like I was an old school D and D player
and had started again recently, and he knew I love
the game. And so when they got the Dungeons and
Dragons Dragons license, they called me up and and here
(05:42):
I am. Uh it was it was. It's a fun
project because it's based on these brand new characters that
were introduced in in these Jaylee Johnson novels, and the
characters are just a lot of fun and uh, but
we we get to do totally brand new adventures and
and they're you know, it's it's it's got that kind
(06:02):
of I think the proudest I am of it is
that it has that anything can happen feel of an
actual D and D campaign, I think, you know what
I mean. Like one of the things I love about
D and D is that you know your dungeon master,
the person who's putting the game together, can make all
these intricate plans of the world and and you know,
(06:23):
have this big thing about what he what he or
she thinks the thing is going to be all about.
And then the players will be like, actually, we want
to go to the store and shop all day, or
we want to or we want to find out what's
the deal with the dog? You know what I mean?
Like like the dungeon master will mention a dog in
the opening scene, and then suddenly the players are like,
I want to pet the dog, and then suddenly that
(06:44):
becomes the whole adventure. Is like although, I you know,
like it's it's probably a wyburn rather than a dog,
but you know what I'm talking about. But there is
that kind of and also like this this thing of
like you get a bunch of fun people all you
know you're playing D. You deal with all your friends
everybody's like picked characters who have different motivations and all
that kind of stuff. And and just because you're all
(07:07):
on the same team doesn't mean it's gonna be smooth.
It doesn't mean it's gonna go you know, like like
people take big swings and these characters do too. And
I think it's I just love the vibe. I love
the the just the sense that anything could go wrong.
These are also, you know, characters on the periphery. These
(07:27):
are not your traditional heroes. These are adventurers and troublemakers.
They're led by a rogue, I'll put it that way.
So there's a lot of fun to be had.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, I was gonna ask about the group, but.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so we uh so the group is
led by Teth, who is Elvin Rogue, and she's I
just love the idea of you know, like back in
the day, we didn't have rogues. We just called them thieves.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Now that player class has expanded and summer thieves. Some
are some of different, like I think Assassin's fall into
that category two. But but uh, but as a rogue,
you know, your your your skills are being sort of
sneaky and deceptive and and and stealthy and all those
kinds of good things, and that's not something we necessarily
associate with the leaders of the troupe. So so that's
(08:17):
a that's just a fun dynamic right there. There's a
fighter named Anson who is sort of like you're the
kind of uh he's he's got a heart of gold
and a sort of gold although his sword is broken
mysteriously sparks with electrical energy. But but uh, but Anson
(08:39):
Anson is kind of like the uh, the sort of
most straightforward and reliable, you know, in that sort of
traditional way of the characters. We have a a a
teethling bard. Uh teethling. That's a that's a newist character type. Yeah,
I know, I see you shaking your head. Back back
when we were kiddo's, they did not have such characters.
But Teethling's let's say, uh, that is a species that
(09:02):
is uh. They they've got they've got horns and and
and sort of devilish characteristics. Not that doesn't mean they're evil,
but uh, but they've but they've uh and uh but
our bard has secrets. But also he's a bard, and
he is uh, he loves attention, and he's something of
a ham although very skilled, but his motivations are maybe
(09:26):
a little more centered around glory and uh and performance
and in what makes a good show rather than what
is necessarily the smartest or most strategic thing to do.
There is a wizard named Casine, and uh. What I
like about her is that she's got a she is
sort of uh, she's got a real capacity for hyper focus.
(09:46):
You know, she likes learning and she and she gets
obsessed with things like she's she's a wizard for a
reason because she likes figuring things out. But again she's
you know, like that's uh. The so she may get
distracted by stuff which is in intensely of interest to
her but may not necessarily benefit the group immediately in
times of crisis. And then there's a bard and Baldric.
(10:08):
The bard is a dwarf bard. Oh no, I'm sorry, cleric.
Why did I say barred? I didn't cleric? Sorry? Sorry sorry, sorry, No,
he's a cleric. But the the fun twist with this, uh,
and a cleric in D and D is like a
you know, it's a it's a religious basically a religious
(10:31):
magic user, right, so it's it's it's a person who
like channel spells from a god. And but Baldric's very
It's a really fun concept for a cleric because the
the notion of Baldric that we got, you know, from
the jay Ley Johnson books, is that he doesn't really
worship the gods. He bargains with them, and he's not
here as sort of like the representative for any one god.
(10:53):
He kind of has developed relationships with a bunch of
different ones and depending on the circumstance, will initiate contact
with one and and it's and and he uh, he
goes about instead of just like you know, channeling that
you know, powers from that god as that God's chosen,
you know, champion, he's negotiating for a little help here
(11:15):
and there, you know, and but there's always a trade off.
And as a result, he's also a little cynical, you
know what I mean, Like he's he's here to he's
here to cut deals, not to pay homage.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And almost almost like a Constantine sort of attitude.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I guess, I guess so maybe I mean I I
he's he's he definitely. I mean, we've got a line
in there where he talks about like, yeah, the gods
are you know, like there's some somebody's talking about like
the gods, and he's like, the gods are not like people,
you know what I mean, He's just like there, but
it's very powerful, very fickle people. And uh, and and
(11:51):
I think it's just a it's a cool angle.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So is the motivation of the you know, not everyone
else obviously is on the same page as far as
they're on individual motivations of being in the group.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, so they've all got their individual things going on.
And I mean, the uh they are, they all have
backstories that that have set them up to be on
their own. So they've come together, you know. It's that
sort of found family thing.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
That that which is also what D and D is
all about. I mean, it's like groups of friends playing
groups of friends, you know what I mean, It's that
the party, you know, and in fact and and so.
But uh, but they've they've got i mean, in terms
of the central conflict and that kind of emotional conflict
in this story. Part of it is like you get
(12:45):
all these folks who have their Yeah, they've got their
own motivations and all that kind of stuff. But then
they show up in this in in this town, and
and they and they're you know, they're looking to they're
looking to score some you know, to to basic pull
off a heist. You know they've heard about like this.
There's a treasure in town or near town, and they
they want to they want to get a piece of that.
(13:07):
And then they find themselves sort of thrust into this
role of of of uh, of possible heroes, you know
what I mean, These these folks who do not think
of that. They're not here to be heroes. But but
there are folks who need some help and what is
this this band of rogues is gonna do? Uh? And
uh there's also a fun dynamic because Tess, who's the
(13:30):
leader of the group, encounters a figure from her past
and uh who and so they're very personal and pretty
darn funny reasons for her to uh get involved in
the conflicts that ensues, which are not necessarily all pure
(13:51):
of heart. So uh, I don't know. The book just
gives us lots of opportunity to play with this notion
of like, you know, different notions of like why people
do things and how to do the right thing in
a world that's full of shades of gray and uh
and what the hell the right thing even is? You
know what I mean when because again, like this is
I mean going back to Baldric in this question of like,
(14:14):
you know, like the gods are not good necessarily, you
know what I mean. And just because you're you're and
and the world itself, the rules of this world, the
rules of the society that they live in, are not
necessarily fair or good, you know. And so they've they've
learned to sort of manipulate those things and get by
and and and do what they need for themselves. But
(14:35):
what happens when bigger responsibilities fall on the shoulders of
this kind of band that's not really looking for that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Is is there a game play aspect in the comic itself.
They're like a map, and you could you know, beyond
the story that you're.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Telling, Well, it is set in in uh, you know,
in the existing Dungeons and Dragons world that's laid out
in a lot of the handbooks and uh, you know,
and and guides, so you could you know, you like,
we're we're mentioning actual places from that continuity and everything,
so you could play the I mean, you could figure
(15:15):
out how to play this game, I mean, play this
play this story within the game. Yes, with I mean,
that's would be easy to do, and you could take
these characters and and figure out their stats and and
run with them that way. The uh, the there we
are not we haven't set up a game that accompanies it,
(15:35):
you know what I mean, Like we we don't have
a module for how to play.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
That, although that's what I was wondering.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Sure, although although who knows, maybe maybe something like that
could ensue eventually. But uh, but yeah, it's it's fun.
I mean, there there are gonna be in some of
the future issues we are gonna have like stat blocks,
game style stat blocks for some of the some of
the characters and creatures that we're we're introducing here.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's that's great. God, dude, as you said, I mean
I was playing D and D briefly in high school
when it was still graft paper.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And and it's it's really been fun watching how big
it got. And I just said, friends that would have
characters within characters like well, I'm I'm posing as a cleric,
but actually, all right, listen, I don't know what I
just want to you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
There were for a long time, I was like, I'm
just gonna be a fighter because I can't keep track
of all the spells. Man, Yes, and uh, you know so,
but it is, I mean, it is. It is funny,
like there's I think I've grown up as being kind
of a I mean, you know, if you talk about
alignment D and D traditional alignment, I think I was.
(16:47):
I've been lawful good to a fault, you know, like
boy scout, lawful good kind of And so when I play,
like I realized over the years lots of times when
I played D and D, I have the most fun
playing like these chaotic characters, you know what I mean,
who are like chatotk neutral to kata good characters who
are just gonna you know who I It's which makes sense, right,
(17:07):
Like you get a you get a cut, loose a
little bit and try different things. So sure, but it's fun.
I mean, I think it's a I've we've gotten some
feedback from uh, from folks who have read it, and uh,
I think the nicest thing somebody said is that it
totally felt like actually it captured that energy of actually
playing the game with with you know, with some of
your fun most fun friends. And that's that's the best
(17:30):
compliment you could get. I will also say that it
is it should be totally accessible to anybody who has
never played the game. Uh in the sense that you
don't have to know like you we're not doing esoteric
references to UH to you know, to stats that you
need to understand and all that kind of stuff. It's
it's it. It should read like another fantasy world kind
(17:52):
of story that you might pick up. So the the
kind this kind of world should be fairly, fairly familiar,
and you don't have to have any special esoteric knowledge
if you are a long term D and D fan
or player, and if you know, you know, like there's
definitely easter eggs and fun little bits here and there
that will will resonate. But hopefully it's a book that
(18:14):
that everybody can get a kick out of.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
When you ran a game, I called it a game.
When you write a comic like this, do you do
you try to like incorporate as much gameplay as you
can within your storytelling.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah. Well, the fun thing about D and D is
that it, you know, like some games, it's really just
all about the action, right, yeah, I mean, like you know,
like but D and D, like the way a lot
of people play D and D is it's role play,
you know what I mean, Like folks are spending I mean,
I mean, I joked about the shopping thing, but I've
literally been on campaigns where it's like, you know, and
(18:51):
the last time last week we met, we like scored
a big heist or whatever, we got a lot of gold,
and then the next session, for two hours, we're just
like going around town going to different shops. I mean,
it's ridiculous. I mean, and of course there's all this
little character stuff going on and little bits and pieces,
but it doesn't have to be like the game itself
(19:12):
isn't all about set piece fights like the like the
character stuff and the fun interplay between you and your
friends as you play the game. That's that's the sweet spot.
So so having you know, being able to, you know,
to to write a book that reflects the vibe of
D and D. It doesn't require you to sacrifice any
(19:33):
good storytelling, do you know what I'm saying. It's like,
it's not like you have to. I mean, definitely we
have really good fun fights, but but but we're you know,
like I think the expectation of the D and D
game is that you're bringing you know, like the character
stuff is paramount, you know, just having fun with these
different characters, putting them in conflict, and you know, and
and and giving them all kinds of challenges, not just
(19:56):
you know, not just magical or or physical challenges, but
all these different interactive character challenges. That's the that's the
that's the gold. And I mean and it's also I mean,
it's always ridiculous to call your own work funny, right,
you know what I mean, Like I don't want to
compliment myself too much or pat myself too much on
(20:17):
the back, but I mean playing D and D I
laugh a lot, you know what I mean, like belly
belly laughs, falling out of your chair laughs. And because
it's just fun, like unexpected things happen, and just the
you know, just the vibe is really great when you've
got a good group. And so we are definitely making
room in this book for for for all those little
(20:39):
quirky moments and the the it's a fun book and
and I think it's a pretty funny book. I think
Wilton Santos's pencils absolutely help enormously with that, because this
is somebody who totally gets all the big action and
all the little interactive moments, and it's just been a
kick in the pants. Hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Have you worked with Santos before?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
No, no, this was the first time. The first time
we uh yeah, the folks at dark Horse dug up,
you know, different samples and Wilton stuff just really jumped
out for having, you know, all that world building and
all that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Character and is it is it five issues?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Four issues?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And then and then yeah, they're but they're big issues,
like they're oversized, not physical, not physically oversized. But these
are pretty thick books, so uh yeah, I mean, which
is nice too, because you know, when you're establishing the
new world, it's nice to have a few extra pages
and also just let everything breathe so we can have
that really great mix of character moments in action.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Is there other back matter that you're gonna have in
the book, as you said, you're gonna do power levels
and things.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That's I yeah, that, I mean, there is some stuff planned.
I don't I don't think we went haywire with that
in the first issue, but but definitely in the in
subsequent issues you'll see some stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
When is it When does it start?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I believe this first issue comes out it's either the
eighth of the fifteenth, I honestly can't remember right now.
I think it's the I think it does come out
on the eighth. I mean it went to press a
while back, so it's ready to go. So I think
I think it does come out on the eighth October eighth,
which and I you know, if all goes well, I'll
have copies of the New York Comic Con. We come
get them from it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
You know, man, That's what I was gonna suggest. Absolutely then,
so hit up Greg at New York Comic I imagine
you'll be the signings at the Dark.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Oh yeah, well I'm gonna have a table in artist Sally,
so you can find me an artist Sally.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Okay, excellent, and another big thing that you've got going on, Supernatural. Yes, yes,
this is uh, the Winchesters are.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Back, exactly. Winchesters are back. This is based on the
TV show that ran for fifteen years and Nate Cosby
over at Dynamite called me up and asked if I'd
be interested, And I actually had not seen much of
the show, so I dug in and within you know,
within a very short a time, I was like, yes, Nate,
(23:01):
I'm absolutely in Uh, it's it's a fun it's kind
of right up my alley. I I had I it's
I mean, how do you describe it? So we're setting
these stories in in uh, in between episodes and towards
the the end of the first season of the show.
So so yeah, so it's fairly early in the show,
(23:25):
and that's a sweet spot. The story is basically about
these two brothers who basically are hunting ghosts and monsters
and all kinds of other creepy Crawley's and supernatural things.
Hence the title of the show the cool Car exactly.
And they in their cool car. Uh. And there's there's
all kinds of back I mean, there's there's a tragic
(23:47):
backstory with their mom and uh and their father and
their fathers this sort of looming figure uh that haunts
them and uh. And but the real dynamics between these
two brothers and they of course drive each other bonker.
There's the sort of college boy brother and there's there's
the kind of kick ass James Deany brother and uh
(24:07):
and they're just a ton of fun, you know what
I mean. Like the show has a really fun vibe
that is not scared of genuine emotion and uh and
and real, you know, real moments of drama between these
brothers and other characters. And it's also not scared of
really goofball humor and uh and just embracing you know,
(24:30):
awkward situations and and fun wordplay and and and just
the dynamics of these brothers getting on each other's nerves.
And uh, it's a real kick in the panster write,
I mean, the other thing of the truth mostar going.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
No, I was just gonna say that I was not
a supernatural watcher either, and then found myself talking to
people that contributed to the show. I talked to Ben
Edlin when he did his French Mistake episode, which is hilarious.
And Jeremy Adam has been on a lot in the
last couple of years, and he of course wrote the
Scooby Doo episode, you know, and Robbie Thompson did Supernatural stuff,
(25:09):
but also the prequel series, The Wind Show.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Okay, cool, cool, cool, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I have I have great respect. I mean in fifteen years, man,
I mean, I get it.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And that's totally right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And I also it's nice to see a ghost Hunter
show that embraces something different beyond the usual city kind
of location.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And the fact that it is kind of this forgive me, everybody,
I don't need any politics when I call it a
Red State horror.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, I mean the the there is a fun vibe
that I appreciate. It's a road show also, you know
what I mean, Like they're they're on the road and
they're going from town to town. They're going to these
little towns, and it's got this very kind of rustic, worn,
analog organic feel, like just the set design and the costumes,
(26:00):
deign and everything, and and it was you know, they
originally the show launched in what two thousand and five, Yeah,
two thousand and five, and so this is before really
before social media, you know. I mean they were like
there was a al messenger and stuff, but you know,
this is I mean, I guess Facebook and stuff had
just launched, but it's before like that's not part of
(26:21):
the show, you know what I'm saying. So they have
a laptop, they can get online. I think there's at
least one episode where they go to an internet cafe
if I'm remembering that right. But but they but it's
not like you know, they don't have like hoods, you
know what I mean, And there's not like they're not
like they're not like dialing into the mainframe. And you
(26:41):
know what I mean, it's it's all about like I mean,
it's it's I've gotten back into analog photography, you know
what I mean. I've got a freaking typewriter, an analog
electric typewriter. Now I'm using Fountain pens, you know what
I mean. Like like I like, I'm totally that dork. Yeah,
I'm actually listening to cassettes again. I'm going to throw
by buying cassettes. I've got a eighties Iowa boom box
(27:05):
that I bought off eBay that's just like the one
I had when I was in high school. Because the
analog sort of everyday tactle stuff is connecting, you know
what I mean, Like you feel connected to the world
and it's it's so there's really something to all that.
And I just dig that the show does that, you
know what I mean, Like it it feels and I
(27:25):
think that's really important with the with a supernatural show,
you know that it that it uh, You've got all
this like weird stuff going on and and so when
it's contrasted with the world that is as down to
earth and tactle as can be. It's feels more real,
you know. And and and also the contrast is more
(27:47):
uh shocking and fun.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So anyway, so all of that is like, yeah, I
mean there's a huge appeal to me and all all
of that stuff too. Also, you know, I grew up
in Texas and and that sort of like, I mean,
I live in New York in Brooklyn now, you know,
like I really don't like driving, but when I was
a kid, like road trips were great, you know what
I mean, And all this kind of you know, and
so uh and also just like the way little towns
(28:11):
have their own little mysteries, like all of that kind
of stuff is really it's great. It's great. It's it's
a it's a really fun thing. I mean. The other
thing that attracted me to it, frankly, is that these characters,
in addition to being having this great fun brother conflict
sibling conflict thing, they're also both really uh they're and
(28:32):
there's a real anti authoritarian vibe to the show, which
I appreciate a lot. Uh They're they are you know,
they're dealing in a very complicated world, you know, full
of shades of gray, which is what I always love. Uh,
where there are you know, forces beyond their understanding that
(28:53):
they're trying to figure out. But also it's like they
are not They've kind of freed themselves from feeling bound
by uh by rules that don't make sense, you know
what I'm saying, And as a result, they break about
twelve laws every single episode. I mean there's there's credit
card fraud from like literally day one, and uh, you know,
(29:14):
they're they're always like impersonating there there they impersonate law
enforcement a lot. They they're they're they're there's a lot
of uh, I mean there's I mean, like as in
as with any mystery show, there's a lot of breaking
and entering by the good guys. And uh, I don't
know there's it is. It's just I like the sort
of gleeful we're just gonna do this thing that's that's
(29:36):
going on here. You know, like these are characters who
think for themselves and uh are aren't scared to get
in a little trouble. Uh And uh it's it's it's
it's fun.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So we got Sam and I forget the other brother's name.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Just Sam, Sam and Dean.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Salmon, Dean and Is Castrio. Is that the angel that
oh so so.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Our show, I mean, our our show, our show, our
our series is set. So we said it in the
first season. We kind of did this on purpose. We
said it before it gets into the kind of the
into the depths of the demonology, you know, as the
show goes on spoiler alert. As the show goes on,
a lot of the mysteries about the the murders that
(30:18):
set this whole thing in motion, are you know, revealed
to be connected to this what you learn as you know,
I mean, there's there's a whole demonology angel I don't
know if you what do you call it angelology? I
don't know. There's a whole eschatology. There's a whole description
of I mean, there's a whole world of angels and
devils and all this kind of stuff. We are not
(30:39):
getting into that directly, so because we're earlier in the series,
and partly that's just a chance, because that we're in
the more of the Monster of the Week sort of
uh stretch where where you know, like anything can happen
in uh, you know, they could end up into you know,
I mean In the first issue we're dealing with there's
(31:01):
a bunch of mysterious fires going on, and there's some
strange supernatural thing behind that. But we've got as as
this thing goes on, you're gonna see, well, what what's
some teases that I can do without spoiling too much.
We're gonna we're gonna have uh uh, We're going to Vegas.
So there's gonna be some gambling. There's some Vegas stuff.
There's gonna be uh uh wizards in the woods. There's
(31:25):
gonna be uh librarians, very scary librarians. Get ready for
that one that that may be that mean my my favorite.
And there's uh oh, we're also we're else gonna have
some cowboys, so keep your eyes. But but you know,
so we have a chance to play around different genres.
Every every issue is gonna be a news story. I
(31:45):
mean there's also yeah, there's all really we're really kind
of sticking to that episodical uh there is, yeah, exactly.
So it's gonna be you know, it's gonna be you know,
fast paced and and uh and you know, far from
decompressed storytelling. We're gonna do you know, we're gonna We're
gonna cover some good ground and and have a lot
(32:05):
of fun at a at a good pace. There is
a bigger story that takes place over these first five issues,
but it's also you know, new locations and meeting new
people every single and new monsters every single issue. So
it should be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
That's great, man. No, I love the I love the
idea behind it. And I don't know why I am
fascinated by those kind of Highway sixty one, you know, yeah,
when there's when there's no lights on the on the highway.
I mean it's just yeah, like crazy stuff can happen.
I always say I would do Hank Williams and Lefty Frizelle,
(32:46):
the Old countries.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, yea, yeah, yeah, like going.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
From Hockey Talk City to Hockey Talk City.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Counters supernatural ship.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
That's a great That's that's a great pit right there.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
There's a free idea everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
But no, I really and again, I sometimes I feel
like I sound like I'm kind of saying, but I
am being being an urban guy. I just say that
really is a great opportunity to tell these weird stories, because,
like you say, these small towns do have their little
secrets about them and you know, yeah, you know, hey,
the Bartenders are Werewolf. I'm you know, that's great.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, that's it. Uh yeah, it scratches. Uh, I mean,
it scratches an itch for me. I I grew up
in like I said, I grew up in in Dallas.
I was a boy scout. I spent all, you know,
huge amounts of time outdoors, camping and and all that
kind of good stuff. And uh so I was always
really attracted to, you know, outdoor adventure, you know what
(33:47):
I'm saying that that kind of storytelling. Uh. And at
the same time, now i live in New York City,
and uh and I've written tons of stuff and and
and a lot of stories in my head revolve around cities,
you know what I mean. But but it is, it
is a kick, and particularly working for Marvel, you know,
like I you know, so much Marvel stuff is set
in New York City and that's been it's great living
(34:09):
in New York City and writing Marvel comics. That's been
a lot of fun. But but yeah, I've always psyched
when I have a chance to do something that's that
spreads out a little bit. I mean, Planet Hulk was
like that right, you know what I mean? Like absolutely,
uh and and the you know, the the Fallbacks book
also kind of digs into that, and so it's it's
nice to nice to nice take a little road trip
(34:31):
from time to time.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Excellent. Here's some comments from the chat. Oh cool, Dennis Hoffman,
he's a fan of your work and your action comics
run with Aaron Kuter was truly spectacular. Also, Ronan Island
is fantastic, Giannis is Greek is such a talent. Absolutely, man.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, I've been incredibly lucky. Both those runs were just
so much fun. And I'm really glad he gave the
shout outs to those artists because those books would be
nothing without those artists. Those those artists, I mean Aaron.
Aaron and I actually co wrote, uh. When we started
off with me writing and him drawing, and by the
end of it, we were co writing the action comics.
Look at you, look how prepared you are? You got
(35:12):
a graphic. But yeah, we were co writing that book
by the end. And it absolutely was a group effort.
And uh, I just love I loved his Clark and
uh and and Lana in particular, and the whole vibe
that he brought to it and uh yeah, and and
Janni Malone Malone Janis who was the artist for Ronan Island. Similarly,
(35:33):
just great artists, so much fun. By the way, I
need to plug Edar Messias who is the artist for Supernatural. Uhh,
very incredible job. He uh he's I worked with him
on the Captain America book, the Sam Wilson Captain America
book that we just did. Uh uh and uh it's
great to you know, keep going with him. Yeah, that's
his cover right there.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
He drew that cover beautiful.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, for the video audience, the audio audience. That's why
you got to go to.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Exactly. Oh yeah, I just I just want to say
it was it was fun because uh yeah. On both
the projects I've worked with ed Or on, there's been
these little syncret you know, like like moments of serendipity
where it's like, of course you're the one who's writing
this book or who's drawing this book. And uh with
(36:23):
the Captain America book, I co wrote that with Evan Narcis,
And there was a certain point when we were talking
about about Sam Wilson's falcon, you know, because he's got
a he's got a he's got his I mean, he's
the falcon, but he's got a hawk. Sorry, it's called
red wing and and uh. And we were talking about
like what kind of bird it is and all of that,
(36:43):
and turns out that it's been established in continuity that
it's a very specific Brazilian Brazilian bird, Brazilian raptor, and
editors like, oh, yeah, I know that bird because Eder's Brazilian,
you know what I mean. And it was it was
just really kind of fun. He was like immediately like yes,
that's that's were good. And then with Supernatural, like this
the show. He loves the show. I think it's like great, Yeah,
(37:06):
he's been watching it for years. I think it's like
his comfort show that he puts on on these drawings.
So it's kind of awesome to think of him being
able to, you know, put on his comfort show and
then actually draw the actual book, you know what I mean.
So it's been cool.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I want to ask about Superman because you were doing
Superman and that New fifty two period, and I'm always
curious because they're really they they really made an effort
to distinguish that Superman from classic Superman, to the point
where when they brought classic Superman back and everything. That
(37:41):
was a big deal. So as as a guy writing
the book when it was happening, was that like did
that add an extra layer of either difficulty or opportunity?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I would I would definitely classify that as opportunity in
the sense that it was awesome because we had two things.
We had a Superman that was really based on the
very earliest Superman comics when Superman was a I mean
(38:13):
he's essentially a socialist, you know, a big city crusader
and his big animal. Yeah. I mean he's like he's
like fighting cops in his first you know, and and
and corrupt politicians and all that kind of stuff. And
that's what Grant Morrison did when they took over the
book or when they started that book. That was and uh,
(38:34):
which was just cool, you know, I mean that that
was that was that's fun and new. And also it
was a very young Superman. Uh. And this is not
a Superman who's been who's been out there being Superman
for years. So it wasn't Uncle Superman. It was it
was like your older cousin Superman, you know what I mean.
And and in a way that like like uncle Superman
(38:54):
knows what what time it is at all times, and
you know he's gonna sort of, you know, kind of
give a little wink and guide you and and you know,
smooth things over and not make you feel bad, but
also let you learn for yourself. And you know what
I mean like that, I love that Superman, but this
Superman is your this is your this is your older
cousin Superman, who's who's gonna eventually become that kind of
(39:16):
uncle Superman. But right now he's got like he's he's
more impulsive, he's less experienced, he's gonna screw things up more,
you know what I mean. He's got totally got a
heart of gold, but he's also figuring stuff out. He's
not quite sure how to manage stuff. Uh. And that
was just a really great That was a great character
(39:36):
to write because there's just so much opportunity for you know,
for great character moments and for for him to figure
stuff out. That's that's drama, that's gold.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I was gonna remind me of when you when you
know the dynamic between Clark and Lana that you got
to explore.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, well, we we were so Lois was off the
table for us because Lois was being featured in the
other book. I was.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
During the run.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Honestly, when she when she exposes you know that truly
no disrespectful what you guys were doing. But I'm like,
that's understand so please continue.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah so so I yeah, so so I was. I mean,
I I barely wrote Lois. I mean, she just wasn't.
We weren't able to feature her. But I was like,
we need, you know, like Superman is nothing without a
supporting cast, and we need we need we needed to,
you know, to to put normal people around him. And
Lana was perfect because this is a young Superman who's
(40:44):
really new to the game. And who else is he
closest to other than Lana? I mean, you know, like
that's the person he was he's going to have the
most history and relationship with and uh and it was
really uh. And and then we we knew that we
wanted to kind of give her a job, you know
what I mean, and and and give her give her
a little more you know, expertise, like yeah, yeah. And
(41:07):
and also it's like so that she had something that
she was bringing to the table too, you know what
I mean, like in terms of like in adventures and
things like that that she wouldn't just be you know, uh,
the person to be rescued, that she'd have something going on.
And and Aaron, I think was Aaron's idea was like
because I think Aaron has studied electrical engineering, so he
was like, well, what about you know, engineering ors, And
(41:27):
so she became an electrical engineer and that was like
her thing, and it you know, and it totally fit
into the you know, to the plot which involved of
our first storyline, which involved like a you know, kind
of a Kaiju style monster that had electrical you know
powers and all that. So she's helping her figure that
all out. But but the real juice of that was
just this dynamic between her and Clark, because she's she
(41:51):
you know, she knows the secret. She knows that he's Superman,
but she also knows he's Clark Kent, you know what
I mean. And so he's just like he's he's just
he's her buddy, you know what I mean. And and
so she's got you know, she has uh, she he's
not like he's not Superman to her. And and and
(42:11):
so that gives you know, that gives h that relationship
a chance to it's a relationship with a real person,
you know what I mean, who can call you on
your bowl and who also may have you know, different
motivations and different you know, angles than you do. And
and we you know, we played that up in that,
like she she has certain instincts that uh and they
(42:33):
come into conflict over those things because because also, yeah,
he is he is fundamentally just Clark Kent, but he
also has a different experience as Superman is somebody who
has all this power and all this responsibility to steal
from another from the other side of the uh the
comics world. But he with all that power, he has
(42:57):
a different angle on things. I mean, not to spoil
too much, but there's there's scenes where she's like, you
just got to destroy that monster, and he's like, wait
a minute, you know what I mean. She and like,
when you have so much power, when you can't actually
be hurt by whatever it is you're going up against,
or can't be killed or whatever, you kind of have
a responsibility to figure out if you could settle this
(43:19):
and reach somebody instead of just beating them down, you know.
And uh so, so all of that was great to explore.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Did you so obviously that I'm sure you saw some
symmetry between what you were doing in Superman and the
movie that just came up.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I have to tell you, I still haven't seen the movie,
which is ridiculous. I know, I know it's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Well, as you know, today it started streaming on that so.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Well there you go, so now I'll have the chance
to finally see it. I h yeah, it's we were
we were joking before about how hard it is. I mean,
you know, to to that like this. The summer has
been packed, and uh so I've I've missed out on
a lot. I've basically tried to keep keep to my deadlines,
but I've I've missed out on a lot of a
lot of things. So I'm eventually gonna catch up. And Okay,
(44:07):
I hear it's pretty good. So it is.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I enjoyed. I enjoyed it, and honestly, there are without
spoiling it all just from a demeanor standpoint, even though
Lois is there and everything, this is a younger Superman. Yeah,
I and and yeah, so it's uh, you know, that's
that's good and I like that aspect of it. James
has a comment he wants to know any super Huloc
(44:33):
content you're gonna have to explain that to me. The
former Tumbler crowd, consider you, if you do what is
super wholock?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I I am fairly certain that he's referring to a
a supernatural thing. And uh now, folks will be annoyed
with me because I don't know all of the uh
uh you know, because I I don't know it detail,
you know what I mean, So I can't actually give
(45:02):
you a solid definition. So I'm I'm I'm still learning.
But uh but I'm guessing that, well, you know what,
I just googled it and it says super who Lock
is the name of the fandom that is an inexplicable,
inexplicable that is, that's that's what the thing says, an
inexplicable code conjoining of three other large TV show fandoms,
namely Supernatural Doctor Who in Sherlock.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Okay, we.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Learned something. I think, I think, well, I think the
I think I think the honest answer is our the
license that Dynamite has probably doesn't cover us making Doctor
Who in Sherlock characters part of the story.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So public domain.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah, but I definitely yes, I think, and I don't
think they're talking about public domain Sherlock. I think they're
talking about TV show Sherlock. So, but but you've given
me something, You've given me a fun rabbit hole to
dig into here. So uh so may not be able
to satisfy this directly, but uh but uh but but
we will enjoy it together.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
How's that from a from a fan standpoint? Were you
a Doctor Who? And were you a coverbat Sherlock fan?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Oh? Sorry, I said, I'm sorry. I got distracted there
a second.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Oh no, worries man, That's all right, I'm born.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I no, no, no, I got my my my eyes
went to the super Who Lock thing there and I
got to I've got a little doing that immersed. Sorry,
go on. No.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I was wondering, though, for the other two components beyond Supernatural,
A covert Sherlock and a Doctor Who fan.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I have not watched much of either of those shows either,
the shows that I have watched the most recently. And
I again, I am for somebody who works in pop culture.
I am sadly behind on much pop culture, largely because
when you sign up, correct, when you sign up to
write comics, you're signing a two monthly comics. Uh, you're
(46:57):
signing up for homework for the rest of your life.
So I always on deadline, and it is hard for
me to see a movie, much less watch a whole
TV a whole season of a TV show or something
like that. Uh. And a lot of the pop culture
I consume is because it relates to whatever project I'm
working on, you know what I mean, Like I need
to bone up on that. But the stuff that I
(47:20):
have watched recently include like I'm I'm a sucker for Foundation,
I uh, sucker for and or I mean probably by
and I'm all caught up on both of those. I've
actually watched those. I got probably the TV show that
was that blew my mind the most over the last
I mean this is already old, but over the last
(47:42):
four four years or so was Station eleven that I
just actually blew me completely out of the water. I
just love that show. What what streamer was that A
that my gosh, I don't remember what streamer that was on.
This was the it was the it was the show
that was about I mean, it was based on the
novel Station eleven and it's it's basically it came out
(48:04):
basically when the pandemic was beginning, and it was about
a pandemic. You know, so in a lot of ways
you would think this is not really comforting and I
don't really want to watch this, but the but the
vibe of I mean, it was also just really funky
and strange and and quirky and in not a sort
of goofy pretentious way, but just in a real sort
(48:25):
of like this is what happens in a bizarre world.
In it was very human level to me, but also
very specific and weird. I mean, ultimately, it's like a
big part of the show just centers around this kind
of a post disaster world where traveling Shakespeare show is
a troop of Shakespeare players are traveling around this uh,
(48:46):
you know, this post disaster world. I mean, and it's fun.
It's just about people and it's about relationships and it's
it's I just loved it. I loved it so again
outdoor outdoor adventure to a certain extent.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
But but yeah, that's interesting, I know, and it's funny.
When when the pandemic hit, I was wondering and I
think I saw it that a lot of people were
going to outbreak the dust.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Oh yeah, I didn't watch that. I remember what I
remember people were doing that, and I didn't watch that
again until actually about six months ago. I was, yeah,
I finally I find yeah, and I'm glad I didn't
watch that again earlier. I don't think that would be
Weirdly enough, yeah, weirdly enough, Station eleven is I I
(49:35):
realized it's somebody asked, what's your comfort show? And I
and I actually Station eleven is kind of that, which
sounds ridiculous for like in a in an ongoing pandemic,
for a show about a pandemic to be a comfort show,
but it does have It is about characters who like,
there's some people trying to help each other, you know
what I mean, Like that's really at the core of it.
(49:57):
And uh, and there's something just very what a what
a beautiful fantasy? That is that a world in which people.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Help people actually each other?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
But no, I mean that is that's that's the world
I believe in, and I think that's the world we
can make happen. But it's nice to see it reflected
in in work sometimes like that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I meant, I couldn't bring myself to watch The Last
of Us or are play the game because it's, oh yeah,
it sounds like a big downer man, it's I And again,
I know it's critically acclaimed and I'm thrown to people
who love it, not for me, so I understand for
the people are like, yeah, maybe not but uh you know,
also though I will say that truly, beyond DC and Marvel,
(50:39):
you've always done a great job with licensed property.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Oh yeah, it was great. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah,
it's it's fun. I mean, I you know, I came
out of film. Uh you know, I went to n
y U, I made I made short films, I made
big movie or not big movie. I made an independent
movie and uh and I and I'm you know, I'm
always still working on film projects you don't hear about
because you know, you don't hear about until we actually
(51:03):
get a made. But uh it's always something. But but so,
I don't know, I have a real affinity for for
filmed entertainment. And uh so when I had a chance
to you know, do these adaptations, it kind of made sense,
you know what I mean, like the uh the also
you know, what's you know, what actually makes doing these
(51:23):
kinds of things sometimes easier than certain comics projects is
that like when I worked on the Firefly books, I
had maybe you know I had. I had one one
short TV season to watch in one movie in order
to get pretty much caught up, you know what I
needed to know. I'm ever I've written, I wrote, I
(51:44):
wrote The Hook for five years. I will never be
able to catch up on everything about the Hulk. You
know what I mean? Think how many things like you
think about it? If you're writing the x Men, there's
just so there you You can spend the rest of
your life writing the x Men, and you will be
hard pressed to catch up up with all of the
X Men media that's been produced. And yes, yes, speaking
of Hulk, you brought up the Planet Hulk cover the
(52:07):
return to Planet Hulk. Shall we plug that we talk
about that by all means.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Okay, little Tea's there, but don't worry. That's the end
of part one, but part two should be uploaded.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Make sure you check your feet if you only see
Greg poc Park part one, say that fast three times.
But Part two of my talk with Greg is posting
within the hour, So again, if you don't see it
right now, it should be there shortly and you'll be
able to continue this wonderful conversation with Greg. We talk
about Planet Hulk, the classic, but also a new chapter
(52:38):
that he has done for the twentieth anniversary of Planet Hulk.
And we also talk about Greg writing Asian characters and
especially in today's world, how important representation is. It's a
tightrope and Greg explains in Part two, so make sure
you join us. Then thanks a lot for listening to
word Balloon until next time. Word Balloon is a copyright
(52:58):
feature of Shaky Production, Copyright twenty twenty five.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.