Is Star Trek Khan Canon

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back everybody time again for word Balloon, the comic
book conversation show. John centtris here and I got a
solo trek watch, well not really a solo because Larry
Young from Dork Court, that great YouTube channel, is joining
me to talk about Star trek Con, the podcast audio
drama that I'm enjoying so much, but also a couple
members of the League of Word Balloon listeners will be

(00:20):
joining me as well, Wes and Pete and listen. I
like Star trek Con. We are four episodes in and
I'm really enjoying this show. It is the best written
Star Trek yet of the current era, and I am
impressed with the acting. I'm impressed with the writing. I'm
impressed with the sound design. It is very immersive. I

(00:41):
know if you don't like audio drama, I can appreciate that,
but I figure if you're listening to a podcast, you
might be interested in audio drama now if you haven't
heard it. I am spoiling through episode four because really
interesting things happen and I couldn't wait for the next
time that Mitch, Wayne and Franco would be available, and
I let them know. Oh, I said, listen I'm doing
a Friday. If you guys want to join me, cool.

(01:03):
If not, I'm going solo and they're like, go solo,
we're all busy, or in the case Submitch, he hadn't
heard it yet. So I'm happy to present this episode
and discuss a star trek Con. So I hope you'll
enjoy that. That's the subject of today's trek Watch on
today's word Balloon. Word Balloon is brought to you by
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(01:23):
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(01:44):
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collectibles anytime at Alex Ross Art dot com. Welcome back, everybody,
time again for another word Balloon were going to do
a trick watch tonight. My usual co conspirators are off
on away missions of their own, but I was happy

(02:07):
to recruit for the purposes of our show. Another fine
Trek podcaster as the dork Court is the name of
his show in general, but a lot of Star Trek
talk is based on his Monster Maroon that he's currently wearing.
The man behind Ait Publications and Astronauts in Trouble, the
fantastic graphic novel Captain Larry Young going to see.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Him, Buddy, Wow, thanks a lot, John, that was incredible.
I was telling you. I just tell my wife I
was suiting up for you, and She's like, man, you
really like dressing up for John Sanchrees, don't you. And
I'm like, he's my admiral. I got to put on
the command uniform, so here we go.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I appreciate it. Larry gifted me with some fantastic old
James Blush and other Star Trek novels from the eighties
and earlier the seventies. Spock Must Die, Great thing Larrea.
Have you seen on YouTube there's a guy that has
taken a lot of the seventies Bannam books and using

(03:09):
Ai has made narration for them, and it kind of
sounds like Kirk, It kind of sounds like Nimoy, like
Trek to Mad World and Bud's Angels among the Price
of the Phoenix in the Fate of the Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh my god. Yeah, that's all the good stuff, right dude.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
As you know, we had those, and we had the
Three Seasons running over and over again. And the photo
the photo novels that's about always.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, Oh my god, that was I would get one
of those for my birthday. Of the photo novels. That
was a special treat.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Boy. No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I don't get into a lot of the fan fake
stuff and the AI stuff, but every once in a while, somebody,
somebody hits one that just just gets it gets me going.
And Ai James doing something that was James Bliss paperback covers.
Is that what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
They're like, no, they're they're they're literally doing narration using
Ai an Ai voice. Oh yeah, they're they're reading the
books and I mean, got some of them are eight
hours long, because that's how long the book is Summer five.
But yeah, it's crazy and and really they got uh

(04:21):
that And also there was an AI animation thing made
that lookally in the style of the seventies show, and
it was the guy got AI voices to sound literally.
I mean, I'm assuming he samples of deforce Kelly and
Leonard nimoy and it's them in a bar talking about

(04:42):
how it's It's like right after Act one of Generations,
they think Kirk is dead and they're just really by
you know, McCoy is drunk and really pissed off.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
But that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was trying to console him in in the you know,
in a very spocky and way. And for being a
fan production, I give the guy a lot of credit.
I know, oh listen, I get I get the AI thing,
and I absolutely understand, but I think that is a
and then and I love the o' toy recreation of
Kirk's final moments and everything. That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Like that's because you know, they a lot of a
lot of it's uh, it's not AI, but you know
it's CG cleaned up, but like Sam Whitmer put prosthetics
on and he looks like, you know, fifty seven year
old William Shatner. It was, Yeah, that was nuts.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
And the guy, the guy who put on the hair
and makeup to be Spock is frighteningly authentic.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
That was like, that was some kind of magic. I
can't remember that actor's name, and I feel like his
first name is Lawrence, so I should I should remember it.
But yeah, oh my god, that guy was just so
otherworldly that I I like kind of like, no, that's
just let her Neil.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
We're gonna we're gonna talk about later as well some
Star Trek news that has happened this week, and also
whatever Star Trek things Larry wants to talk, we and
we'll even entertain. I certainly have a Bond story that
I want to talk about. James Bond story.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
So but yeah, we can get in other things if
people want in the chat. But I do want to
start with the Star Trek con uh. The audio drama
that is just I think amazingly good. I'm really really honestly,
I don't know about Larry. You've heard the first episode.
I will say honestly, I think it's the best written

(06:39):
uh Star Trek new Star Trek project since the new
idiots have taken over.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Ah, I love it all right, all phasers set to
stun right. I'm not a giant fan of this, of
this format, so it may mean a little more when
I agree with you one hundred percent. I I there's
a lot of things preventing me from digging it. I'm
very visually oriented, so these are just audio dramas. There's

(07:08):
a whole component. But but I love Star Trek so much.
There's no trouble picturing what's going on. And the second
I made the little adjustment that oh this is and
it's not Ricardo Montabon, it's the guy from Lost.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
And.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I'm good and I they have Captain suh on the
excels here with Tubac is a framing sequence finding their stuff,
like I was good. I was surprised. I try to
always embrace new stuff with an open mind. But I'm
a human being, right, so I can say I'm I'm

(07:47):
embracing something with an opening mind, but I'm really kind
of like more like, okay, let's see what you got,
and that's that's not really open minded. And boy, this
had completely jumped cleared the bar and satisfy me. I
can't wait to listen to the rest of them. They
did a great job.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I appreciate that, and I agree, and also I get
what you're saying too, because I do think audio drama
is an ask, and I can appreciate that. I got
to tell you, I grew up on old time radio
in the seventies and I really love it.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I love old time radio, but there was just something
really compelling to listening to it out of my radio.
So I man, I'd love to doctor Demento, all right.
I used to listen to the Saint, the Vincent Price
Saint all the time. Yes, sure, And and I very
very much enjoyed MPR's Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back adaptations.

(08:47):
So it's not like it's it's just that you described
it perfectly for me. It's just an ask, right, It's
not like, oh, here's some dumb, dumb movie. I'll be like, well,
start watching it at lunch and if it's good, I'll
finish it. You know, there's no bar to hurdle from
movies or TV with me, or even comics. Really, like,

(09:08):
if somebody goes you have to read this, I'll read it.
So so it's just I completely respect you and your
trek guys like Mitch, and I'm sorry I'm blanking on
the guy's knees, but the show is amazing and sounds
like if you're telling me this is good. Hey, I'll

(09:29):
listen to the first one for good old John, and
I loved it. I want to thank you. I will
probably start prostlytizing.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Well, I'm letting, I'm letting League of War Balloon listeners.
I if you subscribe via Patreon three bucks a month,
at least you got a zoom link and you you
can join us, or I should say a stream yard
link and you can join us. And uh, man Wes.
Wes is backstage, and he keeps saying some great stuff,
so I will add West to the conversation. Good to
see him.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Man, Hey, guys, thanks for having me. Good to be here.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
He uh you know, I I'll explain, and also we're
gonna get into spoilers and I'll be honest. I want
to talk about all four episodes, so Larry, it's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Oh, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
If anything, I think it's gonna make you want to
listen to the other three.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yell ye, I'm definitely in. And I feel like right
now I'm just gonna do a reaction video in real time.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
But yeah, well you know, if you're interested and you
haven't heard it either show at all yet, you might
want to tune out and watch or listen to a few.
It is on YouTube as well as all the audio
podcast platforms including Spotify anywhere you get podcasts, kind of
like word bloon. But it's it's great, and yeah, I'm

(10:44):
I'm really really impressed. But for people who don't know,
this is a story that bridges the original space Seed
story with Mantalban and we go up to Wrath of Khan.
At least that's what they say. It's nine episodes long.
We've had four so far, and we're about four months
into their stay on SETI Alpha five as of the

(11:05):
fourth episode. But yeah, Naveen Andrews is con Ren Schmidt
from For All Mankind is Marla mcgivers, the redhead that
betrays the Enterprise and you know, was helping Con with
the mutiny and then all of a sudden helps the
ship again. But she is exiled along with Con to

(11:27):
SETI Alpha five and they're gonna try and make a
go of it. Okay, fine, and yes it's gonna be
rough terrain, but Con seems to be up to the
challenge until they get there and things start to go
wrong and that's fantastic, and I really am impressed with
the acting. Before we get into nitty gritty West, what
do you what do you think of the show so far?

Speaker 5 (11:49):
I think it's been great. I just watch episode four
this morning, so this this is a perfect time for it.
I'm I'm not I'm not an audiobook guy, I'm not
an audio drama guy. But this is really good and
they have a great cast, even other than the two
main leads, very strong voice actors in this, and it's

(12:10):
taking some very intriguing turns in what this is going
to be. And I'm assuming, yeah, we're four months in
in the story, so I think we're getting close to
when things are going to start really turning. And I'm
I'm very intrigued by this. Now. This has been This
has been great, This has been really yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, i mean we all know about the you know again,
I'm assuming everyone watching and listening has certainly seen Wrath
of Khan, So we know about those gross worms that
call into your ear and take over your brain. We've
already seen that happen or heard that. It's so funny
Wes and I are saying scene it's all in our
minds kids. It's all audio and it's immersive, and the

(12:53):
they I really appreciated that Marlon mc ivers is given
a lot of agency that they didn't obviously have back
in the sixties. She's obviously dead by the time of
Wrath of Khan, but you know, she's kind of screwed
in both in both ways because she betrayed her ship.
So if she would have stayed on the Enterprise, they
probably would have court martiall or thrown her in jail
or something, and she choose to go with Khan. Well,

(13:16):
the Augments, i'll call them augments. They're not crazy about her.
Con is even not sure of her motivations. She's not
sure if Kan's motivations. You know. He's like, you know,
I don't know if you're really into being here or anything.
She's like, well, I don't know if you're really into
having me here. Other than the fact that and am
I wrong? Was Initially it sounded like the Augments maybe

(13:38):
were sterilized in some way.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
On Earth, So I know what you're talking about. So
the female augments are sterile, but the males are not.
Like they even they even make a direct point of
saying Khan had many consorts on Earth, so he was
having many prodigy birth that I'm assuming that ties into well,

(14:03):
we all know who from Strange New World, So I
I I can't help but wonder, just to editorialize, if
that was thrown in there maybe more recently. Maybe that
wasn't Nicholas Meyer's original thing. But yeah, that that that's
the story about that. So and that does play into
the story, the fact that the women are sterile.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, but we'll we'll again. I don't mind spoiling Pete.
Eyes are waiting backstage. We'll get we'll get to you, Pete,
that promise. But the can.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I jump in John about Marla's before you get Away
from Marley, because yeah, they do say that speak to
her motivations in the first one, which I can speak
authoritatively too because I just listened to it about thirty
seven minutes ago, But they do. She nods to it,
she's supposed to. She wants to have her quarters in

(14:54):
the cargo section. She's not gonna sleep with him, and
she says that I'm here as a historian. So I
found that really cool. And I did realize that was
what's her name for? You just said her name from
un her. Her voice is very distinctive there because I
love for all mankind and I just went, oh, yeah, right,

(15:20):
it's making man. The production on this show is amazing.
It's very good. I enjoy it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
You know, honestly from a technical standpoint, just like the
live action stuff and the animation. It looks amazing and
it sounds amazing, and it is. This is what I
love about modern audio drama. All the sound engineers get it,
and it is very immersive. I mean you put your
earbuds in and you feel like you're there. And they're
very good at you know, the background sound effects, a

(15:50):
good use of classic Trek sound effects as well. Oh yeah,
and I love that they're framing the story with Sulu
and Tuvac and the Excelsior and it's great to have
ninety whatever year old George Taka still sounded great. Tim
Russ obviously doing a great job as well, So I

(16:11):
appreciate that. And as Larry will hear as we get
into further episodes, especially episode four, there's a wonderful exchange
with Tuvac and the historian, the monitor, the Excelsior Historian
that it's going down to investigate whatever mcgiver's left behind
as far as her logs and stuff, and there's a
very interesting reveal we'll get to in a second. But

(16:33):
I like, like Wes was saying, I think the other
actors are great, and I think they're giving us nice
little small subplots for the rest of the augments that
we're covering and everything. There's a great kind of Roman
backstabbing thing within the community of Double Cross, and you
know that's happening as well. And really, I just I

(16:54):
think Nick Myers wrote a great story. I wonder, and
I don't know if we'll ever know because the uh here,
Kirsten Bayer and David Mack adapted Myer's original idea, which
was going to be a three part mini series, whether
they thought it was too expensive or I know, Nick
Meyer can be volatile. In fact, I was trying to

(17:17):
find the quote, but supposedly there's a quote of him
that's kind of making the rounds that he's been blackballed.
Oh really, I canceled blackball and uh yeah, and I
and I can see that because uh, you know, it's
he knows more than they do, and and I don't
blame him for having that kind of feeling given that well, yeah,

(17:40):
I know, and West, I appreciate the smile because yeah
that I won't deny it's half. But also I'm serious
in terms of I'm sorry, this guy has proven himself
a lot more than the cured people.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
Well and and and and John. I don't want to
derail us into another topic, but uh, you know I
I have a feeling that maybe some of the folks
in charge at Secret Hideout I'm not going to say
feel threatened by other people know more about Star Trek,
So okay, just real quick, and John, I don't know

(18:12):
if you guys have covered this. That Star Trek legacy
was an idea from Terry Mettalis coming out of The
Card season three and earlier, I think earlier this year.
Jerry Ryan let it slip that Secret Hideout or whoever
at Paramount came to her with a hey, let's do
a Captain seven idea. Let's do a Captain seven show.
And she's like, well, is it legacy? Well know that

(18:35):
I'm not interested.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
That's right, boy.

Speaker 5 (18:39):
That that was very interesting, And you know, I I
agree with you, John, I think there is maybe a
little bit of professional jealousy, as there is in many industries.
But yeah, I think you're onto something.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's a click, you know, And and it's like, hey,
you're either with us or you're not with us. And
I mean my gud Walter Mosley is a subject becovered. Yeah, yeah,
on the way the way we were treated in the
Discovery writing room, and it's Walter Moseley, for God's sake,
and speaking from his own personal experience. And again I
don't know. And also I suspect, especially talking to my

(19:18):
friends who are in the TV writing business, that they
could likely be noted to death in terms of what
the network wants, but also what Kertsman wants. And also
I'm sorry, Akiva Goldsman. You lost me when you were
doing Batman poorly. So I expect nothing good from you,
you know, working on Strange in the World. And no,
and I've said this before, and I don't know how

(19:39):
you guys feel. Hey, how about if we do start
Trek year one with the original characters? No, absolutely not.
Get the hell out of here. Stop, you got eight
years kids, goodbye, time to go. You guys suck. I'm sorry,
they're not good. They're not good.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Right now, I've been following this pretty closely, So I
don't I don't think we have to worry about it
once the Sky, once the sky Dance merger went through.
They I just was listening to the taking on Paul
Sky this morning at lunch and he said, he said,
did you hear that this one this morning where he

(20:14):
was like, yeah, they're very disappointed with Starfleet Academy. So
I just I don't think we're gonna have to worry.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
But I also don't.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Think we're gonna get really good new Star Trek until
about twenty thirty or so.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
It might take well, and that's I wonder both of you.
I wonder if when Secret Hide it goes with they
can hang on to the sets, because it'd really be
a goddamn shame if they got to rebuild everything from
scratch again. You know, Wes you on that.

Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes, And I know that's been It's so weird. That's
been kind of the pitch for Star Trek year one,
saying well, we have all these sets. Really, that's that's
your main driving forces. You have good sets. My humble suggestion,
take those sets, redress them, give them to somebody that
can do a Star Trek show again. This is how

(21:03):
Star Trek used to be seventy five percent of the
episodes were on the ship. Yeah you can still do that,
just yeah, redress, hold a different ship. You'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well. And also, as the Tachi on Pulse Guy pointed out,
these shows are so expensive and look at a show
like the Expanse that did it literally right, and and
it's like these these guys, they spend money like drunken sailors,
as we know, because no disrespect to the Navy, but.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
No respect and disrespected drugs or.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
For that matter. But you know they're this Starfley Academy
said it's the most expensive set ever made for Starfleet
or Star Trek. And it's like, yeah, was that a
good idea? Why?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right? It's this giant open area with a tree in
the middle like a cruise ship.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Like why I didn't notice that?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
I don't know. I'm just but like, you know, something
dumb is like that?

Speaker 5 (22:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Probably Yeah, well, all right, let's get to the big
hinge that happened this week, Marlon and Connor warming out
to each other. Marla is showing con human ways to
really think about being just beyond a blind leader about
because a couple a couple of the Augments pass away

(22:25):
under tough circumstances and not worth going into details, but
she's like, you know, you really should have a funeral
for them, and he's like, well, I honor them with
my memory, and it's like no, no, no, this is
for the community. And that move really touches Con and
he makes a move to agree to that. The Augments
are loosening up with Marla, which is great and to

(22:48):
the point where finally she is cohabitating with Con and
they even have a marriage. If your weddings weddings weddings
as they used to say on The Simpsons, which find whatever.
That's fine. Again, it just shows they're getting closer and
I appreciated the progression. They took their time with it
on this show, which is great. But the historian on

(23:10):
The Excelsior throws a grenade in the room when she's
talking to Tuva and still going over the tapes and everything,
and she's like, can I get access to Kirk's logs
regarding the whole space Seed incident and what he did?
And he's like, no, those are those are privileged I can't.
Only Captain Sulu can maybe get access to that. Why

(23:32):
and she goes, well, do you know, did Kirk know
that SETI off for six was going to blow up
and screw up SETI off with five? And he's like, no,
of course not, what are you talking about? You know
that was a natural phenomenon. Well, you know whatever, and
I'm given the telegraph version. But then she's like, yeah,
how about five years later when the Reliant shows up

(23:55):
with Captain Terrell and check Off as first officer, didn't
they note that's the SETI Alpha system used to have
six planets and now only has five. How come they
didn't know? She's like did they forget how to count?
And it's like, wow, Okay, now we're into something that's

(24:15):
really interesting because it's true, and I mean, that's that's obviously.
It's kind of like why do Khan recognize Chekhov? As
far as the making of the movie that it's an
easy slip. And also I have, unlike these current writers,
I have a lot of respect for Nick Meyer, who,
if you know, the backstory of Wrath of Khan, like
took five different scripts and cobbled them into one in

(24:37):
like two and a half weeks because they had to
start shooting or not. And so it was that kind
of thing. But that is cool. That is a great
story idea of something to explore. And are we gonna
get Walter Kaning now on the show along with Takay
because I would love to hear Commander Sulu's explanation of

(25:00):
why uh they didn't they didn't know about SETI off
the six blowing up.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I know you think it's something dumb about Checkov though,
like the fans all say, oh, yeah, because Chekov was
attached to security and that's how they knew each other.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
So no, no, no, they know that. That explanation I get.
But this is a good story thing. No, you hang
your hand out and go, wait a minute, that's a
really good point, and there's there's to be there's story
potential there.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
You just do the same thing they condo answer in
the movie, right when when when congoes this is SETI
Alpha five? Right, it's just because they flew in, you know,
maybe they came in in a different way and nobody's
counting moons. Who cares, you know, I just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
There the fact that again you out a red shirt.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Who cares? Let's just keep going, That's what I'm.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Se No, this is listen. If they're ever to do
a prequel, then it's good. Yeah, I know you're just
fucking with me, and that's fine, God bless you.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, just squeezing more irritant.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
What what'd you think of that, Wes when when you
heard that?

Speaker 5 (26:09):
I And that's been a thing that you know, ever
since Wrath of Khan, people have speculated and joked about it.
I think that because in Star Trek for the last
eight years, we've gotten a lot of explanations of things
that weren't really necessary. I think if you can take
something like that and give it a very unique twist

(26:31):
on a story that adds to what's come before, I'm
all for it now. I I I don't know where
this is going, but so far it's been good, so
I'm willing to give them, give them rope, give them leeway,
Like all right, let's see, let's see where this goes.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
And and when's the last time we felt that way
about new Star Trek where we didn't know where this
is going and we're intreatd by what you know?

Speaker 5 (26:57):
I mean, I I can't speak everybody, but really like
a card season three, Prodigy season.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Two, yep, well, I not even give them the opening
of season three on Discovery about the burn, because it's like, oh,
that's interesting, Okay, all the di lithium is now inert. Yeah, okay,
why and now what?

Speaker 6 (27:19):
And then you know it's a sad boy that lost
his mother and he you know, and he screamed, really,
you guys saw, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
That sucks. I'm starting and now I see I wouldn't
go to this extreme with Franklin and Mish. God just
got that.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
John, You're very passionate, and that's that is not a
bad thing.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, I appreciate that. It's truly it's you know, you
take this too seriously? No, no, no, I don't take it
seriously at all. I just want good Star Trek man,
because again, Larry and I've been enjoying Good Star Trek
for over fifty years.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, man, and it's religion, so I wanted to be good.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, said the man in the Monster Maroon. Absolutely. And
by the way, honestly, everybody when Doorcourt focuses well. In general,
Larry's podcast is great, and I love when he and
John Price get together. I missed Dan on the show
as well.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, Dan's busy now and John's got his two kids,
so we don't. We don't do it every Thursday like
we do, so we have door course. Now Tuesday is
Randall we do movies he hasn't seen so I can
make fun of them. And then Friday is the old
original door Court where it Mark and Steve and being
sometimes Walker. And so now he's in college. A couple

(28:41):
of times he's like phoned in from the sidewalk, so
that that's been pretty cool. But thanks for the kind words. Yeah,
we chew over Star Trek once a week, usually on price, good.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Stuff, good stuff. I'm gonna let you get to your
tinhead points. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Yeah, I just ruled two quick things. And I know
this is a little bit beyond con but the well,
speaking of the burn real quick. The last Starship first
issue is out now, and John, I know you got
to read a little bit of it. I've gotten to
read some spoiler things of it. Again, it sounds like
they're taking something that was done previously and doing a

(29:23):
unique twist on it.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yep, which.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
That's the way to do it all we want.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's IDW. If you don't know Larr, it's Jackson Leansing
and Colin Kelly who all their Star Trek stuff is
exceptional and also can't well. Chris can't well. And everybody
that IDW has had in the last five years working
on Star Trek has done an incredible job. I give
it up to Heather Antos, who is editing and picking
these people. My buddy Tim Sheridan took over on lower

(29:51):
decks from Ryan North. Really really great stuff. But yes,
Last Starship takes place days after the Burn, and there
is this and it's not gonna solve it, obviously because
we know it's not solved until Discovery, and so this
Andrian and they should intrigue people if you're not aware.
With the Last Starship this Andrian Captain decides to go

(30:13):
back to uh the Star bas front pecard season three
where we had the easter egg of Kirk's DNA and
body I guess in stasis and they have cloned a Jane,
a young James Kirk to tackle the mystery of the burn.
And I'm I am, I am absolutely in and Lancy

(30:34):
and Kelly are brilliant and again taking taking an interesting
idea that unfortunately wasn't a great payoff in Discovery. And
again I don't need them to solve the problem. I
think that is amazing. That's hilarious right there. Yes, yeah, man,
it is amazing. I agree.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
So John, you you made a great comparison. It's it's
like Steve Rogers coming out of the ice. Yeah yeah,
and it's it's it's Jim Kirk. You know, nine hundred
years later things have literally burned and and you know,
it's like, this is the guy that wants to you
know that they kind of need right now. They need

(31:12):
somebody that, hey, when stuff hit the fan, you need
a guy like or somebody like Jim Kirk.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
It's it's also kind of like that stillone movie Demolition
Man in terms of you know, coming out of cryogenetics
and everything. Yeah, you guys do the what you do?
Let me I guess that should go.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
Okay, great, yeah anyway, uh yeah, okay, so real quick
my tin hat three if you'll indulge me. And and
by the way, I thank you for having me on
as much as you have. I appreciate and it's been great.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
You're you're a good league listener and Patreon supporter. It
is my pleasure and that's one of the reasons why
I want to do more than just the book club,
you know, where honestly, I'm even thinking about it, and
really just for everybody, I'm thinking about possibly doing other
books when Brian can't do it, because I really felt
bad about us missing the meeting in August everything, but
I said, I'm gonna do this every week, and if

(32:05):
you're a patron, then you can join us, you know,
for and be on camera like West's and like Pete's
going to be in a minute.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
Yeah, and by the way, I'm really looking forward to
November talking about Parker by Darwin Cook.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Really, yes, while we're talking October book club is Birds
of Prey volume one, Kelly Thompson fantastic great female superhero stuff,
who cares if it's female, great superhero team stuff, And
really Kelly's very quickly become one of my favorite writers.
But yes, in November, we're gonna do Parker volume one
with Darwa Cook's wonderful renditions of Parker and stuff. So Larry,

(32:41):
you're you're welcome to join as a special guest if
you ever want to be on the book club.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh my god, you know that I listen in is
whenever I can. John, You're a goddamn hero.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
As far as I'm like, man, you guys are really
nice to say all the nice things.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I really you're providing a service man.

Speaker 7 (33:00):
Okay, okay, if I can get a little crazy, yeah,
please I and and and for the record, John, just
to keep some more praise, I got off the Strange
New World's bandwagon after season one.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
I've kept up through you guys. So thank you. You're
you're you're suffering for my my my pleasure and me
staying for and so thank you. I appreciate your sacrifice.
I've had this theory for a while that in the
last season of Strange New Worlds, they're going to have Cohn.
They're gonna bring con on and that's gonna be Laan's

(33:37):
big thing. She is going to come face to face
with her great great whatever grandfather and that's how she's
going to ascend. I don't know something, and so we
have we have Well here's the thing, John, we now
have an actor playing for us.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
They do that well, I think as far as what's
going to happen Alon, and to explain why another tragedy
for Spot and also that he'll have no memory of
this when the original series starts, that we already had
the temporal cop show up in the Toronto episode with

(34:23):
her and Kirk and and she's gonna go, Yeah, listen,
we went to our records. You're an anomaly. You don't
belong here. And she's going to cease to exist and
everyone's going to be a security officer. Whoever who now
replaces Lawn and uh and Spot will have no memory.
So therefore, kind of the way the metrons, you're you're

(34:45):
cut up on season three right there?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Oh yes, much to everyone's just.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
We're good to We've got to change your perception of
the goal. Yeah, we're going to change that perception, and
now no one will remember this, uh, these terrible conflicts
ship bull hack hacky writing. Sorry, sorry, I really saw.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
With this upcoming thing like Wes has just ruined Star
Trek for me because they don't do that, they're going
to suck. Well that's a great idea, but my fear
is it's gonna take place in the same season with
the fucking puppet episode. So they have this badass thing

(35:26):
where Navine Andrews goes up and goes, oh, hey, everybody,
I relax, I'm here, I'm gone. I'll get all that
nutty ship out of your taste, out of your mouth.
Which is fantastic. But all right, it's the puppet episode.

Speaker 5 (35:40):
And by the way, I'm not saying this is a
good idea.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
No it is it.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, it's a strange world's idea. I get it, buddy.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I think that works. That works hilarious.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Anyway, all right, Wes, No, good job.

Speaker 5 (35:55):
It was that your No, that that's it. That's all
I had.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Like, I don't even think that's a conspiracy. I think
that's happening. I think you time traveled and have come
back and said at least one episode is gonna be
fucking great.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Wesson's dude, time issue a heart bell from twenty years Yeah. Yeah,
and to be honest, a time traveler and everything.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
I can appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
So thank you. All right, what good luck, get back
in your tartists, and I look forward to you coming
on again. I'm gonna do this next week, so if
you want to come back, you're more and welcome too, buddy.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
I love that. Thank you guys both, John Larry, you
guys have a good one.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Take it easy, West, thanks a loving so yeah, great,
great observation. Stanley wanted to know where Mitch, Wayne and
Franco are. They are busy and also they haven't caught up.
Now again I'm subjecting Larry to these spoilers, but again.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I'm of age where I knew Yoda was blue and
looked like a gnome and Direth Vader was Luke's father
like three months beforehand because I read them the nominalization.
I'm from the world where like knowing it isn't the
point at all. It's experiencing it with your friends, right, and.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, how's it dramatically going to play out? You're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I love when somebody like you is opinion. I respect
and pop culture like massively, possibly even more than my own,
and my ego is giant. So it's how much respect
I have for you. It's saying, oh, this thing's cool,
I'm going to check it out, right, and yeah, no,
it's I loved it, so I don't. I don't mind.
You can. You could perform the next three episodes for

(37:36):
me and I would still listen to them because it's good. Yeah,
it's good.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
It's really really good. Here at Pete Byes are joining
and say you do it, Pete.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Hey, I feel like I'm wearing Amanda shirt uniform on.
I don't know, hopefully.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Of course, yes, I mean, what are mandalorians except I
mean starfleet guys are bandos without elements, right, I just
picked this.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Up randomly, and I just totally forgot talking about star treks.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
So, my dad, are you caught up on time? I am?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm enjoying it tremendously.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
What did you think about that that point that the
historian is now making to Tubac about what the reliant
knew or didn't though, it's.

Speaker 8 (38:26):
Interesting, you know, hearing you guys talk about it just
a few minutes ago remind me of what we've experienced
in comics for decades. Right, It's a it's a total
wreckcon and uh, it's just kind of neat to weave
in new elements within holes in the plot.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Right, So I'm curious as to where this ends up going.

Speaker 9 (38:47):
I don't know, you know, it's interesting if you can
make Con seem a little bit more of a likable person,
can they kind of uh soil James Kirk's name, I guess.

Speaker 10 (38:59):
At the same time, I don't know kind of where
they're aheaded with this, but yeah, that was.

Speaker 11 (39:03):
The big thing I want to ask you guys, just
in today's day and age, right, there's somebody that was
clearly in nineteen sixty seven.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
A villain, just flat out to it. Don't know why.
I don't know how he was born that way. And
I feel like.

Speaker 12 (39:21):
What we're seeing here, actually listening to here, is showing
us how he kind of came to be in Star
Trek too, you know, comments of what.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
We kind of saw. I don't know if it means explanation, right,
I've always just assumed that he was always kind of crazy.
He just had had a couple of bad days.

Speaker 13 (39:38):
Are we just seeing those bad days or are they really
trying to build a case as to why he is
this much of a psychopath when we when we see him,
you know, in a wrapa con.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, No, Given Nick Myer's work on Con, The Breath
of Con, and the fact that he was the original
guy behind this story, I trust his you know, instincts,
and again it it he humanizes this bad guy. He's
still a bad guy. Of course, he is my god.
And again Larry will learn as he goes on, because

(40:12):
Conn is you know, not above killing his own people
that aren't aren't politically in the way, But are you know,
just obstacles based on the story and doesn't want the
rest of the tribe to understand that because they really
are blindly still loyal to him. So I understand. I

(40:32):
understand his motivations even though they're bad. But also, like
I said, Marla is really softening him up and reminding
him of his human side and really saying things like, hey,
we need a funeral because you gotta let them. You
gotta let the people moarn and and you get you know,
that's important for our community.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Well, I want to spoiler, Larry, I don't know where
you're at.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
I'm good.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
John.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
You were talking about earlier putting on the airport.

Speaker 14 (41:02):
There's a point character's strangling and breaking the neck of
another character, but like you kind of hear a crunch,
and I was like, oh, this is this is.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Good radio drama. I really really enjoy listen to this
person die.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
It's yeah, it's again they go for it, and that again,
that's what I'm saying. Like my theory is from production standpoint,
that kind of this and the animated shows Christmas like ye,
do what you want, all right, see you later. I'm
too big. I'm busy with the reel stuff. And in fact,
we'll get into it, and I'm shame on me. Wes.

(41:39):
If you are still watching, I'd love you to be
in the chat and address the question of should this
be cannon or is it just another time in like
a novel or a comic or whatever. I understand. Don't
give me the others always been another way. I understand that.
But this is such more of a direct production of
Secret Hideout. Chris Buyer is one of the main producers

(42:02):
of all this stuff. David Mack has been in the
room for all this stuff and is one of the
go to writers and things, and they took Nick Myer's
original idea.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
And Myers, I think it's absolutely cannon like. But you know,
well what does that mean.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
There? But the great thing is, and I'm gonna refer
to an article that it was that Trek movie and
I'll even put it out here on the screen so
we can all follow along. I feel like Ropernette, this
is what rab does off.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Can I just real quick while you're looking for that,
tell you I really appreciate him bringing up the trope
of the whole sympathy for the devil thing for the sixties,
that that he's obviously a villain, and you don't need
to explain the villain. He's the devil, all right, but ooh,
you know, he's just minding his own business. So I
really like that they're trying to sort of, you know,

(42:58):
give con a point of view. That's I agree.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Here, before I get to this article, I want to
point out an wait, annoying critic quotes space Seed and
uh wait, here we go. First, I want to get
the other the other quote that he had here. It
is mister Spock, you misunderstand it. We could be against
him and still admire him at the same time because yeah,
as Scotty points out, there were no massacres under his

(43:24):
rule Spock and then rather under his world Spot says,
and very little freedom, no wars until he was attacked. Yeah.
The the the other conceit is obviously there were other
I assume other augments that were at other parts of
the world and they started to war against each other,
but at one point kind of like was controlling like
a fourth of the planet or whatever. And yeah, again,

(43:46):
you know he was a he was a benevolent death
spot if you will.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Can you imagine the world building they did though they
to do all that.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yep, we're gonna.

Speaker 11 (43:56):
Say, I was just gonna say, you know, looking that
you know this has done many years ago in the past,
and who knew that the people will be talking about.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
This right right six years later.

Speaker 12 (44:08):
I feel like that all the things, in terms of
putting something on the timeline that actually happened, the Eugenics
War is the one thing we kind of can't really explain.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I think when people have talked about it, it's kind
of been like we.

Speaker 11 (44:21):
Yet that's happening in the nineties, like kind of when
nobody's paying attention.

Speaker 15 (44:25):
And like, you know, everybody who's like, you know whatever,
listening to run music or something like.

Speaker 16 (44:29):
That, right, and clearly like an earth shattering more event.

Speaker 9 (44:35):
Right, So like there's it's it's kind of tough for me,
like the timeline of reality and Star Trek DV at
that point.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Well yeah, but also two things. One and I agree
with Robertnette who says it's it's not our history. It
is an alter The Star Trek universe itself is an
alternate Earth from ours. There are a lot of things
that happened on their world that happened in our world.
Lincoln and the various other historical references they make of
twentieth century at previous Genghis Khan, things like that. But

(45:04):
that said, and also I appreciate what great Cox said
that it could have been a secret war that was
kind of a Cold war that was happening, happening covertly
that we weren't aware of and stuff. And I like
both of those explanations. So it doesn't it for me.
It doesn't have to be the real world if it
needs to be for other people. Absolutely, And that's the thing, guys,
I appreciate everything, all the nice things everybody has said

(45:26):
about me and my opinions about Star Trek. I'm not right.
It's just my you know, it's just my pov. And
I mean I tried to explain that to one of
my co hosts a couple of weeks ago, and it's like, yeah,
don't don't take it so personally that I disagree with you.
I don't. It's fine. It's in fact, it's good. And
I'm sorry that i'm a little side that we all
are about this being as great as is, But then again,

(45:46):
I'm just happy about talking about good Star Trek. But anyway, Canon,
I want to talk about this article. And here I'm
gonna put it up. And this is from I Believe
Trek Central uh and it's uh trick Trevie, excuse me
directmovie dot Com Kirsten Byron writing an iconic villain as
tragic hero in Star Trek Cohn. And this is from

(46:08):
October second, just yesterday, and I'm gonna skit to the
real important part of it, or the part I want
to get. So is Star Trek Cohn now part of
can't read the whole article though, folks, it's excellent, and
Kirsten Byer is the co creator of this well again
based on Nick Myer's thing. I don't know the answer
to that yet. There are conversations I need to have

(46:30):
with people because I could see arguments for both, but
I don't know where that's gonna fall. And I hope
ultimately it doesn't matter. Come to the story, enjoy the
story or don't. It's not going to contradict anything we
already know that was previously established, but it is going
to make it deeper and richer in ways I don't
think you can quite imagine yet. So that's the quote
I wanted to really focus on, and I understand I

(46:55):
appreciated her candor. David Mack was on a record a
couple months ago saying, no, it's a tie in, just
like novels are ti in. Okay, all right, I get that,
but it is again it's produced in house, and I
know they had partners. Realm was a partner, this audio
drama company and the rotten Berry organization. Rod Roddenberry's company

(47:20):
is involved things like that, But really it's like, you know,
and I am of two minds. One is it's typical,
like Wes was saying earlier. You know, well I didn't
make it and Nakiva didn't make it, so therefore it's
a tie in, and no it doesn't count. And I'm like, yeah,
but christ En Barrus is in the room. But also
do they I would have liked that for them to assist,

(47:43):
like right up front, hey, this is a tiant it
doesn't affect canon, or oh no, this is absolutely cannon,
And I part of me wonders if they want to
see what the fan reaction is before they claim it,
or also that they might be screwing with us on
purpose to get talking about it more and wondering if
it is canon. I'm not really sure. I mean, that's

(48:05):
how Tin had I am that you know they trend.
I know that, you know that, I know in the
words of the Honeymooners, you know. I mean it's I
don't know. I honestly don't know. But also I can't.
Like Wes said earlier, part of me just thinks, no,
we didn't. We didn't come up with it Nick Meyer did.
We don't like Nick Meyer. So yeah, we committed to
it to some degree, but we're gonna dismiss it. And

(48:27):
that's one of the reasons I'm assuming that it's a
it's an audio drama rather than a full on camera show.
So I don't know. Thoughts gentlemen on canon or not canon.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Well, I appreciate that she said. I agree with what
she said, and I think she's coming from a really
cool writerly standpoint. It doesn't matter if the story's good,
right like, Because if the story's great and everybody responds
positively to it, they go, yes, that's exactly what happened,
and here's your two our movie with Navi and Andrews,

(49:02):
right and and if nobody likes it, it's like it
was a little radio play. We thought we liked it
to some people like it, and there's no harm it's
not even Discovery.

Speaker 12 (49:14):
Well, I mean, I have to defer to you guys
in terms of all the programming we've seen Paramount Plus
and that.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Was before that CBS All Access Access exactly.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
So should I take the Adventures of play King Crew?
Is that canon or does that take place in a
different timeline?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
They claim it's canon. They claim that they are writing
that this stuff fits to uh, the the events eventually
getting to the era of the original series, and oh no,
this is canon.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And it's like, Okay, here's what I had to do
for myself that I would tell people all the time
that original series is the world the universe where Kennedy
had two terms, and then this is what Yeah, so
I think Strange New Worlds in Discovery is just the

(50:13):
you know, the Kelvin Universe early days. And that's the
only way I can watch it because it's so wrong
and often atonal from what everybody's been watching for sixty years. Yeah,
that's the only thing I can do to sit down
and watch it.

Speaker 12 (50:27):
What's what's the long term hosts of like real hardcore
fans like.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
I've kind of.

Speaker 12 (50:36):
I'm hoping that if this regime change happens in the
Star Trek world.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
And hopefully in our own world, that's a.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Sorry that all this fand memories will be wiped away,
hopefully right like that, like somebody will come in with
a magic wand and just say, this happens in an universe.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, what do you think? Where before I? Before I
come in, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I really hesitate to speak for all fans ever, because
I have a really cool but also typical experience of
being a fan. You know, like it's my idea that
people become Star Trek fans because you get to join
the ship, right, you're on the crew. Like most people
are sort of like asocial weirdos that are like, I
really enjoy this action show about philosophy.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
That's that's a pretty weird audience slice. And I'm not
sure there's a Star Trek audience in the modern day
because so my hope is that just somebody who understands
Star Trek and understands narrative just does a TV show
not streaming, Just network CBS give me twenty three episodes

(51:47):
of guys walking around in front of light blue planted plywood.
I don't need CG stuff that makes it look like
I'm really traveling in through space because I'm watching it
on my phone. This big It's just that's not Star Trek.
Star Trek is like we're not going to kill today.
You know. It not aligned from Star Trek in the

(52:09):
last five years that I can quote. And it's not
because I haven't seen them thirty times like the old show.
You know, it's because there's nothing quotable.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
I I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
I mean good friends with Jason Isaac.

Speaker 17 (52:25):
When Discovery was about to begin and I was at
New York Comic.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Con and I went to the panel and I asked them.
I said, hey, this is the first time a Star Trek.

Speaker 16 (52:37):
Show is going to be locked behind hay wall and
people won't be able to see it on network television.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Something feels off about that, right, And the producers were quiet.
He actually spoke up and he said, well, I'll speak
for the actors. He gus, we're all working actors, and
you know, we just stay a job where we can
take a job. And that was pretty much.

Speaker 12 (52:58):
You know, it was nice, nice on for answering my question,
but really, and I'm going back up to New York
come come next Thursday.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
I didn't I didn't get into the The Star Trek
com but like I was off doing the reservations, I
was thinking, do.

Speaker 16 (53:12):
I get up and kind of be again, but this time,
like really call out person and say something to him
in front of an entire room of people, or am
I gonna like look like an internet troll come to
life in person?

Speaker 3 (53:24):
But I feel like like somebody should say something then
this am good. I don't know if that's an appropriate place,
but like I kind of want.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
To do it.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
The trick of asking a tough question is obviously phrasing
it in a way that isn't offensive, but in it
sent kind of hey, I don't understand X or whatever,
because you know I have my I always have my
Jim Gray story. The boxing reporter Larry. You know, he
was at the All Star Game the nine need that
an All Star game or was the All Center A

(53:55):
team And he's the guy who asked Pete Rose, don't
you thank you? Oh? The fan said apology for what
you did? And then of course we saw him a
month later at in Vegas for a Tyson fight. And
it's me and all the other reporters and sorry everybody.
I love this. I love telling this story because really
It's like, this is why Jim Gray doesn't have a
lot of respect from me. But literally that's the truth.

(54:18):
So we're all, you know again, I'm still radio reporter
covering boxing. All these old newspapers and magazine boxing guys
that have been on the beat many years more than me.
And one it was like, Jim, what the hell which
with Pete Rose at the All Star Game? You know,
asking him that embarrassing question. Of course Rose didn't answer it.
He's like, well, I'm not here to talk about that.
I'm here to I'm really appreciative that, you know, the
commissioners letting me on the field, given that I'm banned

(54:39):
from baseball and all that. So he's like, yeah, it
was great television. And I'm like, no, great television is
getting an answer to your question. And they're like, subtric
is right, subtrit is wrong. The Mike Tyson fight and
he's in the ring with Tyson, another knockout win. That
guy had a big win and everything. Let's talk about
the fight. And he goes like, wait, wait a minute,

(55:01):
before we stopped, that was very disrespect though. What you
get to beat roads all when the convicted rapist corrects.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
You right, man, that's not cool.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
But you blew it anyway. But no, so but no,
I think I think it's fair and I don't and
I don't know, you know, the randomness Pete, if you
know when they're going to get a tough question. But
that's the thing, don't you know. You don't come to be,
you know, a jerk, but you're like, hey, I don't
get X, you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
But yeah, that's what I'm saying about that, you know,
all access. Now I remember what it was and that
was such.

Speaker 18 (55:38):
A fearm thing and that was the beginning for me.
It's like, this might not be this might not turn
out well. But I do agree with Liarry. I do
think that like it should be a full season. It
shouldn't be available for everybody.

Speaker 19 (55:50):
You know, maybe people will learn something about, you know,
humanity if if.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
They had access to this program.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
But I mean they're doing it with Star Wars as
well on Disney, and I understand, and again I I
can appreciate that. Sadly, this is the way TV's going guys,
whether we like it or not. I mean, there will
be some sort of free product, but it wouldn't surprise
me if over the year television becomes an aftermarket for
what they make on stream. We're already getting that to
a degree because of the strikes and because of COVID.

(56:20):
You know, ABC was running only Murders in the Building,
the Hulu show things like that, and other and other
scripted shows as well. So I just think the genies
out of the bottle. But I agree with you. I
would like more episodes regardless, But no, it's and again
the cannon thing. Yeah, I agree, Just just make it good,

(56:40):
that's fine, But it just doesn't kind of bother me that.
Can I put for the fact, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Larry, I'm sorry, Can I just I don't want to
put a finer point on We're a media family. We
have all the streamers, so it's kind of it's my
my problem. There isn't so much it needs to be
accessible to everyone, although I firmly believe that. But it's

(57:07):
more that Star Trek is as a concept, needs air.
It's not a theatrical to our well save the universe again,
agreed concept, And like the streaming version of Star Trek,
Discovery was very bad about this that One of the
fun things for me as a Star Trek fan is

(57:29):
that it's not just Kirk, Spock and McCoy. It's to
be not to be, that is the question. It's everybody else, right,
they're Sulu and you know that he likes Botany and
he fences sometimes and he does this and Horror saying
she's like sings like an angel. Everybody's got you know,
Chekhov is insane about his pride with Russia. Everybody's got

(57:52):
a little thing. Scotty's kind of a drunk. I don't know,
he doesn't he seems to handle it. But that they
did that over the course of seasons, right, yes, And
I could not tell you the name of the Bridge
crew of Discovery, like and I watched every episode of
that show.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Well it was it was the Dreadline. Sorry, it was
the Dreadlock lady's birthday the other day and they put
it on Facebook and they had the full name of
her character and I knew her And forgive me, everybody,
I don't remember her African name. She had a great
national African name, but her first name was Joanna. And
I'm like, that's the first time I've ever heard or

(58:32):
seen reference to that. And absolutely, Larry No, it was
so embarrassing that literally Pike in that first episode of
the second season is like, hey, let's go around the
horn because kind of anybody's name, and it's like, yeah,
neither do we. That's ridiculous. And again these.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Shows did much better.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
And also again, like you said, having only ten or
you know, even thirteen or fifteen episodes like Discovery initially
did not enough and we never get to know these people.
And it was so idiosyncratic about just Michael burn and
Michael burna Michael, but oh here's Booker Booker and Burnham
Burnham Burnam Booker and it's like that's all they gave us.
And it's like, no, this I understand it. Well, you know,

(59:11):
well that's what the original show was really was the
Kirk Show.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
That was the nineteen sixties, and Michael Piller, thank god,
in the eighties went hey, listen, instead of focusing on
the planet and problem of the week, let's make a
wharf show, Let's make a Deanna show, Let's make a
Riker's show, Let's make a data show and all the
and it's like, yeah, you've got this ensemble. Kiss I believe.
And I made a short about this regarding Sam Kirk,

(59:35):
which is the biggest missed opportunity to fight you my god,
thirty episodes and this guy is I have another beer.
That's about all we know about Sam Kirk. And it's
so dumb and what I mean, I was like, oh,
this is cool, We're gonna learn about Sam Kirk. I
mean again, it doesn't it fits in. You can fit

(59:55):
the slice or slades in the cannon without really screwing up.
What was it called, Larry the original episode with the
annihilate operation Annihilate with the rubber vomit, Yes, I had
it looked like to me, it looked like joke vomit. Yeah,
but I'll accept, We'll accept pantcakes. That's absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I just thought it would be cool if the guy
that they Paul Wesley they hired for Kirk, Like hire
that guy or the exactly yeah George Kirk guy actually yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Originally yes, yes, that's a boy, very good pete. Uh yes,
I mean that's the thing. Here's a great opportunity to like, okay,
who wants to And also I made the point on
the short yeah you guys are jerks calling him Sam
because I love that And what are little girls made of?
Tell me about Sam? Your brother, George, Samuel Kirk, you're
the only person that calls him Sam. Not anymore. Not anymore,

(01:00:53):
they'll call him Sam and uh, yes, Sam's a great guy.
How do we know? Well, you keep telling us, but
you really don't show us. And I really thought Instranger
World season three, the perfect opportunity was that Farragut episode
where Sam Kirk. They could have paid him a little
bit more money that week to have more than five lines.
And Larry, I'm convinced that he's a five line and
under actor. And no disrespect to him, because I'm sure

(01:01:15):
he's capable of more. You mean, Paul, No, no, no,
I'm talking about Sam Kirk.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Oh, Sam Kirk. Yeah, I mean I couldn't tell you
because I don't give him anything to do.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
An opportunity instead of and I and again, I get it.
It's fine that it was Spock that gave him the
pep talk that made him go back to the bridge.
But if he's frustrated, and I don't know if I
can do this, how about his brother? How about his brother?
Then go Jim, you're blowing it. Don't you realize this
is what you've been waiting your whole life for. Man,
you're in the chair. This is great and I know
you can do it if you have any doubts. It's

(01:01:45):
what I always say about Spock and Kirk's story in
Wrath of Come where I don't know, I'm getting old
or whatever, and the subtext of Spock is, hey, you
got this, I got this, we got this. We've been
through this a million times. This isn't any different. We're
gonna be fine. And then the sad moment of while

(01:02:05):
we made it, and he looks and there's the empty
chair and oh my god, what happened? And that's beautiful
because and again they earned it over twenty years. But
if you're establishing we know enough about George Kirk, Sam
Sam Kirk, if you will, that they could have really
explored that. We've had thirty episodes, we got Dick, we
got that's bullshit. I'm sorry, this is me. I want

(01:02:29):
to jo Let me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Ask the question right, let's talk. Does it matter right
with this audio drama? Does it lead to something?

Speaker 12 (01:02:37):
Are we hoping Larry mentioned something about like maybe you
get a movie out of this or it's something that's
you know, like what would it if somebody's like, yes,
it is canon for whatever reason, does that we need
to something other than just the fact that it is Cannon.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
And I'm glad because I meant to answer your previous
questions well, and this ties into it. My suspicion is
that secret Hideout is going to be going through their
secret Hideout exit and it'll be done. And I believe
this era will be regarded in some alternate universe fashion
or kind of like a Benga's daughter of Okay, that's

(01:03:15):
over there and we'll never discuss it. It can and
you know she's up in a safe, happy pople. Don't worry, daddy,
everything's fine, and you never have to think about me again.
And so I don't expect this to lead to something
else because I think the new owners are going to
come in with new ideas and be like, all right,

(01:03:35):
that's fine, and also not to piss off this Discovery
Stranger World group and say, hey, we gave you when
it's done, we gave you ten years. That's a lot
of star trek. That is your star trek. It's going
to be there on paramount plus for eternity, and you're
gonna end We'll even if there's a market who knows

(01:03:56):
we will continue to make Discovery books, although I haven't
seen any since showing off the air. They are doing
Strange New Worlds books. My buddy John Jackson Miller has
written one, and I know David Mack has a new
one that's coming out in a couple of weeks. So no,
I I think I think that's gonna If anything is
going to survive, it might be Strange New Worlds, just
because it's an opportunity to write more Pike Crew stories

(01:04:19):
the way we got great Pike Crew ty in novels. Larry,
do you ever read any of like The Rift or
the Peter David wrote.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Uh Tian novels? Yeah? Sure, I mean yeah, I mean
it was Peter James Zodi is great Pike of the
Pike story, not the not the recent ones. I don't
think they do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Talk about the recent ones. I'm even talking about the
old ones like Bulcan's Glory Gives. That's really where number
one story.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I mean probably, but I don't recall I was I
was eating those things like Antasid. Yeah, I was in college.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
No, I hear you, man, I'm a little I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
They can do anything though going forward about secret stuff
surviving because they licensed that stuff, right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
So I honestly, don't you think that. Don't you think
there runs will still be there or you know, the
old shows will still be there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
I'm yeah, I mean probably, but I really think that
no one, like you said, they're not doing anything now,
nobody's buying the shirts. It's it's I think that people
are going to remember it like that Dick ever saw
Saturday and Night Live years Well, that was the thing
that happened, but like the wrong guys were in charge,
so there was some good stuff out of it. Nobody's

(01:05:35):
saying different, but we're just not going to.

Speaker 12 (01:05:36):
Talk about what's the one thing?

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Answer? No, And it's a shame because other than what
they did for him in the first season, I think
he's been a supporting character on his own show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Absolutely like my kid. He's an eighteen year old college
freshman and he calls him Captain Pussy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
And I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I really feel like, actually correct then, but I can't.
You're right, man, well season screen, don't know why they're
doing that now. Show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Yes, Melanie Scravano is like I think the m v
P of season three of Strange New Worlds, and I
wish that there was more time and and screen time
and story given to the other characters. But still she's yeah,
he's he's really subordinate to her in season three were okay,

(01:06:39):
you sure, you okay, you know, and I get it
to a degree, But also it's like he's like, damn, captain,
I'm sorry. I don't think Archer or even God, even
Janeway would not be sitting down and be a supporting
character on her own show. I'm sorry being the captain.
And again it maybe contradicts to what I was saying
about you know, burn you know that Discovery was the

(01:07:01):
Burnham show. No, no, no, the captain is important, I
grant you that, but also the rest of the crew
is as well. And again that was the lesson learned
during the Rick Berman era of Star Trek that yeah,
you know, but you know, there was never any doubt
that Cisco was the man. There was never any doubt
that Janeway was the woman. You know, and it's but
but we still got great stories about the other crew members.

(01:07:22):
And yeah, Pike's been I guess, you know, he I
think he I think his wife had a baby at
the beginning of season two, and that's why he wasn't
as involved in some of those early season two episodes.
And also, again, it's not like this stuff has to
be done by September thirtieth because the ball season is starting.
And that's another reason why I keep hearing these people

(01:07:44):
on podcasts and reading articles. Oh you know, well, season
three was really tough because we had the writer's strike
and we oh so you stopped thinking about Star Trek
during the writers' strike. Give me a break, Give me
a break. And well, you know, it took a long
time for us to make it. While take a little
bit more time and get it right before you put
it out. But it's very disappointed.

Speaker 12 (01:08:08):
What do you chalk about the fact that we like
con Is it because of Nicholas Myers like being involved
in it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Is it because it's not television and separate people?

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I think I think the but Inskis are leaving it
alone and in fact, and it's another I'm glad you
brought it back to compete because I love that there
was some real science fiction in episode four to explain
how they wanted to deal with the mind worms, and
one of theirs, one of their scientists, one of the

(01:08:39):
auguments is like, hey, we can use silica and grow
silica to infect the worms and silica, I guess as
it's explained. I don't know if this is real or not,
but it sounded like good science fiction to me, that
silica are these little micro microbes that form glass or whatever,

(01:09:00):
and they would they would create some sort of like
insecticide essentially to spray the worms with that. And literally
they're kind of the building blocks of glass, so that
they would almost be like breathing in glass and they
will rip them apart from the inside. Again, I don't
know if that's real science or not, but it sounded

(01:09:20):
great to me, and it's like, wow, I forgot that's right.
This is a science fiction show. Gee, I've really missed
science fiction in Star Trek because Stranger in the worlds.
I mean, we mentioned the puppet episode earlier. I'm sorry
that that resolution to with season ten. Very Buffy, very
doctor who Star Trek. In that resolution whatsoever, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
An atonal mess. What are you gonna do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Yeah, yeah, well they don't know any and as a
science fiction writer yourself, they don't know how to write
science fiction. I think it's evident.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
It's a giant problem with Captain Leonard Kenny, I keep
freathing your name, uh you know, Archers, Archers.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Oh yeah, Melanie Bettel Cattel.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, I couldn't. I could not wait. I was like,
all right, they've they've solved her gorn thing. Now this
chick's gonna be half gorn and half human. Finally, some
fucking science fiction, because now the Captain's got a half
lizard girlfriend, and he's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Like, hey baby, She's like, no, turn the fire down.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I needed seventy degrees in here, like you know, yes,
let's fucking go. And they they're like, oh no, she's
like some statue. Now, yeah, that's all over. Nothing has
any consequence at all. And even in the old show,
stuff had consequence, even if you didn't realize it between episodes.

(01:10:47):
But like at the end of End of City, on
the Edge of Forever, you're like, oh man, he's not
having a good day.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Is he even raina in no requeque from Methuselah the
android that creates you know, yeah, he's in love with her?

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Yeah, absolutely, so yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
There have been a couple of times where Kirk's heart's
been ripped out and everything, even the disappointment of Cootos's
a daughter in conscience of the king. Yeah, I mean, yeah, man, no,
there's And also the other thing that bothers me about
the finale. There's another thing I hate. The final episode

(01:11:30):
is strange New Worlds. Okay, we get the ten minute
Oh if only you know, here's a gift, We're gonna
have a wonderful life in the Spanish ten minutes. Okay,
that's fine, but it kind of negates what happens at
the end of Menagerie and the Cage. I want more
so the Menagerie obviously that well, you know, if he's
going back to Tallas four, shouldn't be thinking about Batel

(01:11:50):
and not Vena. That that one time bang that he
had back in the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Pilot you ruined another one for you. Joh thanks, all right, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Sorry, I know. Yeah. So that so that really that
disappointed me, I have to admit. And again, we'll see
what happens with the next sixteen that we have left.
I love that. And again, another reason why I believe
that don't worry where our pain will eventually end is

(01:12:23):
u you know the reason why. First of all, the
reason why Stranging the World's ended the way that it
did was they weren't sure they're getting a fourth season,
so that's kind of why they put the button on
it the way they did. And that's fine, and I'm
glad there wasn't a cliffhanger, because again, these guys don't
earn cliffhangers, but also that you know, they're like, all right,
one more season, that's it. Oh but we have so

(01:12:45):
much more story. Well, fine, we'll give you a two
hour movie. No that's not enough. And they literally went
back and forth to finally, okay, six episodes for season five, fine, whatever,
And again they can't wait to tell us, Oh, well
that's going to take us all the way to Pike
canding over the Enterprise to Kirk and it's like again
that Farragot episode. So I'm sorry, I didn't like it.

(01:13:07):
I didn't buy it. I don't buy I don't like
Paul Wesley as Kirk. I said it a million times.
I also, I really hate that Scotty is now a baby.
I really hate the younger than Kirk, like what and
and Kirk, I was talking to a Jewish friend of
mine and I was telling him and I was because
he finally saw the season, and I'm like, Kirk is

(01:13:27):
introducing Scotch to Scotty. I'm like, that's like me going, hey,
do you ever try to bagel? They're really good. Try this.
If you're that they're excellent, Come on? Am I wrong? No?

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I like that joke though, I thought that was pretty funny.
What Joy becomes an alcoholic at Spock's fake bachelor party?

Speaker 5 (01:13:52):
A serious question here.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Clearly these people aren that what they're doing right? Like
we all agree, and I think of most people do.
I don't know if there's anybody out there a great job.

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
Like you know, so how how are they continuing forward?

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Like and you know we know the end of his
nearer bit?

Speaker 20 (01:14:10):
How in today's day and ames, don't these people get
placed very quickly like once?

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
But yeah, but they're they're hired by Kirksman and kirk
if you heard and maybe you didn't, Pete, but the
guy who played the cyborg in section thirty one, that
movie was on uh one of my favorite Trek YouTube things.
And I really meant, I'm so glad that Larry mentioned
the taking on Pulse.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
That does a great job.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
He's fantastic and every every episode is only about ten
minutes long, and he gets right to the point and
it's a lot of rumors, but I appreciate his point
of view and he likes a lot of New Trek
more than I do. But that's fine. But on Trek
Celtra Central or no Sean Ferrick show, the Irish guy, Yeah,
I forget. I want to say Trek Central and if

(01:14:58):
I'm wrong, apology. Yeah, but he's great and he had
he had the cyborg gun and at the actor and
he goes, well, you know when Alice Kristen was telling
me that the Star Trek audience is dying, so we
have to try these different things to excite in a
new audience and everything, and it's like, no, you just
had to do good Star Trek. And also I got

(01:15:19):
no problem with Star Trek Scouts, the preschool new thing
that they made. Larry, I don't know if you tried
it at all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
I saw the trailer and you know, I got a kid,
so ten years ago I would have been psyched for that.
I don't have to watch Kyu.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Hang you did you see Star Trek Scouts at all?

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
It's it's a fine Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Yeah, exactly. Whilstead Larry, I couldn't think of him more.
I was gonna say Teletubbi's yeah, yeah, well yeah, but
that's Paul patrozz a little more recent, and even that's
not that recent, but yeah, exactly, and that's fine. But
Larry and I grew up watching the seventies animated show
which was hard sci fi for a time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
It was Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
It was Lou Scheimer, the guy in charge of filmation.
I saw him at San Diego and he's like, as
far as we were concerned, we were doing the fourth
season of Star Trek. Yeah, and yeah, it was animated,
but we got Sam People's and we got Knig and
Larry Niven to write really good Steince fiction stories that
fit in on Saturday or Sunday morning because it was

(01:16:22):
also on Sunday mornings as well. Animated show not not
the next season I think was in Sunday Sunday reruns.
But regardless, they were great. They were they were great,
and they were smart, and also we just needed the
original series. I started watching when I was like only six,
six years old, when I really and I'm like, oh,
the guy with the years, and also given that it

(01:16:44):
was the Apollo Age, like in my mind, I'm like, well,
you know, three hundred years from now, I could see
we could be tooling around the galaxy. Sure, why not?
My good We're we've left We've left Earth, so it's possible.
And sure a big enough ship to have a crew. Okay, yeah,
I'm sold. And the guy with the ears was interesting
and the action was cool and the horror was great.

(01:17:04):
That's the one thing I will give to Strange and
World season three was they lean more into horror. And
it's like, no, that's good because the original series was
a horror show in a lot of episodes, So sure,
why not.

Speaker 12 (01:17:15):
One of the animated series was creative by people that
respected what came forward. It sounds very much like the
card season three, which I think almost everybody will say is.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
One of the few things that come out of this that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
Everyone hopes survives the nuclear explosion of everything not being
around with it anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
Right, we will echo by the wayside as well.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Yeah, I don't know either body. I don't mean a
step on the other peak you finish your thoughts.

Speaker 12 (01:17:44):
Oh no, no, no, no, so yeah, no, it's just
it's just funny because it's like everybody's like that guy,
right Metallics.

Speaker 19 (01:17:51):
He understands the concept that like it seems like the actors,
do you your point about Jerry Ryme.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
Doug what he was doing, and they're like, yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Yeah, literally united both the younger audience and the newer audience,
and we're like we want this, well, we're giving you
Academy instead, and the Discovery type no, no, stop it,
stop it, And again I agree with you, no, and
we's stay at the same point, Pete, I really I
kind of believe that there's a bit of jealousy on

(01:18:26):
Kirtzman's part of no, we're not doing that. And and
also the reason why the talus knows what he's doing was,
you know, he was an assistant on Voyager or Enterprise,
one of the two shows, and so yeah, he saw
a good star trek being made and how to make it,
you know, and even not the best star trek, but
at least good enough as far as what he observed
in because I do think I do think every show

(01:18:48):
d j S nine was amazing. I think a third
of Voyager was exceptional, a third of it was ordinary,
and a third of it not so good. But that's
just television, you know, and nine it's misfires every or
just boring episodes that really, you know, whatever it is.
But again, they had twenty six episodes, and that's another
reason why where it's like, well we only have ten episodes, Yeah,

(01:19:10):
so make ten good ones. And again I don't buy that. Well,
the writer's striking and the actors. Now, you guys, you
guys don't know what you're doing. And also again based
on that cyborg interview that he did with Sean Sean
Ferrick and everything, Yeah, they they they don't believe that
traditional star trek will sell to a younger audience. I
couldn't disagree more.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
They haven't tried, so I wouldn't think that right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Now, Larry, I'll find I always find at least three
episodes of every I'm like, all right, that was all right,
that was that was decent.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
I just don't trust them anymore, Like every pizza. You know,
it's hard to find somebody that didn't like Pickard season three.
I absolutely hated it because it wasn't Picard season one
like it was. By the time season three comes around,
they're giving us what we want. I was like, I
don't care anymore. You made the whole party suck. And

(01:20:08):
now now now everybody's got fresh clothes on and you've
got new drinks. I don't care anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Yeah, And that's that's the only wrinkle of uh, this
era regarding Picard that I wouldn't mind if they say, yeah,
that that was an alternate universe too, making them making
him an android. It's like you really couldn't never addressing
it again, Well they kind of did it season two.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Yeah, when he got hit by a car and had
red blood on the street, Like what yeah, yeah, anyway,
again he forwards the bar now everybody, just like in
the old days.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
What's funny when when when you said Jason Isaac's, I
was thinking of another Jason that I know that it
worked on the show. I thought you were going that way,
but then oh no, no, he's talking about the British
actor that, of course was the captain in Discovery. And
it's it's so weird. Is actually I didn't mind the
first couple episodes and I found him intriguing as this
captain that we were following in everything, and then it

(01:21:08):
just got weird and creepy and it's like, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
I'm sorry, John. But at the time I said, Jason
Isaac's looks like he's in a Star Trek episode, he
has the Academy points. He has a serious thing. You know,
Doug Jones looked like he was in a Star Trek episode.
It was an alien we'd never seen before, but that
looked like Star Trek. Nothing else in I don't know.
I feel bad because Jason Eyes is an awesome actor

(01:21:35):
and they did nothing with his character.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
I was hoping. I was hoping in the second season
that would get a regular universe version of him that
was a prisoner somewhere or something had happened to him
and they found him.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Why didn't they go that way?

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
Well, because again they were too busy making crap. Although
we got Pike out of season two of Discovery, here
annoying critic could come in here. He says he didn't
like Pacard season three. When Reker told part get off
my bridge before you kill us off was pretty bad. Yeah,
but I forgave it. It's fine. There are great There

(01:22:12):
are enough great moments in Picard season three that I
forgive the missteps. I still don't understand why the Dominion
and the Board got together, and that was never explained.
And it's a shame because instead of the Boorg, they
really should have made it a dominion story that would
have been a much more interesting story. But whatever that
that's another choice, and who knows. Again, a lot of

(01:22:33):
times that stuff comes from upstairs. I do understand that,
and eventually the show we end up getting on the
air might be noted to death. And it strikes me,
especially given how many showrunners. Another television writer buddy of
mine made the point that you know, on that staff,
they got a lot of people that are used to
being the showrunner themselves. So I bet there's a lot

(01:22:56):
of arguments in that writer's room. And well, I think
it needs to be this way. Well, you know I've
done several shows. Well so have I? Well, and I've
done Oscar winning movies. Yeah, well, you know whatever, that's
that's my Acuba Goldsman. I'm assuming, but yeah, they truly
they have. They have abused my good will. I go
in every every week optimistic that okay, maybe I'll like

(01:23:17):
this one a little better. And again I'll even point
to three episodes this year that I thought were okay.
I thought that the resolution of the cliffhanger the first
episode was fine. I wish it wasn't the Gorn, but
I thought it was all right. I thought the zombie
episode I wasn't creat I didn't care about the zombie
sore just they were an obstacle. That's fine. I liked
Pike and Mabenga talking. I thought that was very good,

(01:23:37):
and I appreciated the first episode where the nurse's eyes
get burnt out and this big mystery was involved. The
resolution sucked, really stupid, but at least the first part was. Okay,
that's interesting. They're in a building and it's different time
periods and all that stuff. And also that's weird. What
does this stuff mean? I don't know. Okay, you know
it was a mystery box and as usual with mystery

(01:23:59):
box is with this crew, they fail, I mean, unfortunately
they learned. These are the bad lessons from kJ Abrams
and his team of writers. You know, set up a
mystery box and then not pay it off. Well, so well,
those are the three that I kind of liked, but suck.
I thought for four and a half Vulcans, I was offended,

(01:24:20):
not on a personal how dare you be smirch the
Vulcans or it was stupid and not funny. That's it.
That's it. I mean again, fine and have fun with
the Vulcans if you want, I think you've already kind
of had two misfires prior to that one to bring
in Spock did the switcheroo and also now Spock is human,
and again it's they're bad. I dream of Genie episodes.

(01:24:42):
They're bad. You know, we've we've suffered through those three
runs back when we were they were okay, because again
it was a goofy show, go ahead.

Speaker 21 (01:24:52):
So better stories in you in your mind will bring
the people back you were earlier that you think that
it's going to need a little bit more work than
that to entice new folks to come around.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
I'm good with if they do good stories that will
that will be just you build it and they will come.
Like what's happening now? It started from Discovery until now?
Is that serious? Fans of Star Trek are saying this
is awful, except the CBS and Paramount were buying press

(01:25:28):
where Entertainment Weekly is going, this is the best thing
since slice sweep bread. And I would chat with folks
all the time about rotten tomatoes and having critics go,
this is the best or this is the worst. It
doesn't matter. It's thirty guys that got paid to write that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Do you really think that, Do you really think it's
that like direct layer that they have guys that they're
paning off to metched up? Because honestly, I think too,
especially in the YouTube growd, No, and I do want
to hear more.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
Yeah, Just my point is that the audience thing is
always wildly above the critics, and it's because the audience
is rooting for you. So if they like it, they're
gonna really like it because you gave them what they wanted.
And even if you don't, they're still going to be like, well,

(01:26:19):
I wanted that, and they did it. They tried, you know,
And that's something that is so different with the critic responses.
So if you have guys like the three of us
telling all our friends, no, Star Trek's great, now, that's
going to have more value than a critic going, oh,
here's they did this with Discovery. They put them on

(01:26:41):
the cover and had flopped the pictures so all the
insignias were on the right side, and literally everyone I
knew just like blood was coming out of our eyes
because it's such a dumb thing that no one cares
about except the people who care about it. Well, yeah,
boned it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
No, And I think, especially in both the audio podcast
world and in the YouTube critic podcast world, they launched
onto a lot of these fans shows that are excited
about it, like Sean Ferrick's show, like Jesse Gender the
Critic that Again, I'm always interested in their opinion because

(01:27:24):
I don't always agree with it, but I do want
to hear that young person perspective of No, I really
like this, here's why. And and that's like, okay, because
I do absolutely believe. And in the case of Jesse,
it's not their first Star Trek, their old next generation fans,
they grew up on it and everything, but they like
the new stuff and that's great. And I do believe

(01:27:46):
people who never saw Star Trek before that discovery was
their first bite of the apple and have loved all
the new stuff. Sure, I understand, Well, what's the problem
with this is great, this is fun, this is diverse.
We've got representation in a way that Starts wasn't allowed
to have in the nineties. You know, we had the
one episode of John Zia and her past lover, her

(01:28:08):
past husband and other women and everything or however that
relationship was. But their past lives and they want to
get back together. It was a controversial episode, even the
one with the genderless aliens and Riker falls in love
with the person and uh, and that person is converted
back to you know, appreciate their society more. And again
it's like, man, that's having stuff. But again, I know,

(01:28:30):
you know, there was pushed back in the eighties and
nineties for stuff like that, so it is great that
there is that kind of representation. That's fine. What are
you doing with these new characters? Not much? I mean
the Gray and I always forget the name of the woman,
the human woman, the character on Discovery, what's her name?

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
Adeira?

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Was it a Dera.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
And Gray? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
A couple that had the trill her in her body? Okay,
but the two of them professing their love to each other.
Gray had nothing to do on that ship, and Dera
was always I don't know if I can do this,
so I'm not I'm not experienced. It's like five seasons

(01:29:16):
or three seasons of that. She was only from three
to five, the last three seasons. But it's like give
them something to do, and especially while she's human, so
therefore she's not in contact with her past trill lives. Well,
you just took away the one thing that makes Drill's interesting.
And again, oh that's a great idea. No, that's a
bad idea. And again I would Pete Lair. You guys

(01:29:37):
hurting enough my shows usually, and I'd get the guys
to agree with me. Here's another example of what's wrong
with this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Bad writing, and it's like, yeah, bad writing. They don't
know what the hell they do.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
They really get it through wards, go ahead, they just
don't think it through.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Why why they.

Speaker 12 (01:29:53):
Mess is historically going back to the letter writing campaigns
and very active in vocal to your point, John, why would.

Speaker 16 (01:30:02):
They act with like people like this and put out
fraud that they know they're going to get a lot
of pushback.

Speaker 22 (01:30:09):
If it was any other friends that I could see
them just saying, hey, take it and enjoy it. But
like with STARTERK fans, yeah, people have opinions. It's very
crazy to me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
The reason why this show endures is because beyond the episodes,
we've literally had fifty plus years of novels and comics
and tiants and people that, as I always use the
metaphor color within the lines, they don't. They don't fuck
with Cannon. And that's why again why I that's my

(01:30:40):
original question of should I mean I'm saying is on
the title, but should Star trek Con be Cannon? And
my vote is yes because again another quote that I
saw Fire and Mac were on I forget whose podcast,
but I watched that as well. I was like, everything
I've written with whther it's Italian novel or the stuff

(01:31:02):
I'm writing now, I try to adhere to canon. That
is my goal is to make it fit. Now. Obviously
she is not the final voice in Discovery or Picard
or the other shows that she has worked on, and
I recognize that, but it was nice to hear her
say that. And that's why this walks between the rain drops.
And this story fits very nicely between Space Seed and

(01:31:26):
Wrath of Con and gives us interesting explanations of why
he was as angry as he was in Wrath of
Con and also again giving us a real story for
Marlon mcgivers, which is great. And you know, and even hey,
they're even like doing the DEI thing. We got two
augment women that are in a relationship and even through

(01:31:49):
in Vitro give birth to a baby, and it's like, yeah,
that's awesome. That's great. These people, these supporting characters, are
getting more storylines in this podcast then the other shows.
I mean, I think they do a slightly better job
with strange new worlds. I don't agree with a lot
of the character choices in terms of what they do.
I still, I mean, as much as I adore Jess

(01:32:11):
Bush and can look at her for hours, I won't
deny that I really hate. I really hate the Spock chapel.
Oh we had a romance. It's like, I'm sorry, that's
and that's why I really think Lan is gonna like
something's gonna happen that's gonna wipe away their all their
memories and they're not gonna remember that stuff, or or

(01:32:32):
we are gonna get sid spuck. Hulan dies in the
last episode and I'll never go back to my human
emotions again. Waha wah wah. And it's just like I
hate the way they play Spock. I've said it a
million times. He's like a freshman in high school who
supposedly and they're and much like Scotty being introduced Scotch
by Kirk the Benga here, let me give you a

(01:32:55):
bulcan heart. It's like are you kidding? Where's the cultural appropriation?
Complain about that where this human is given the vulcan
a vulcan harp. I'm like, and they always have to
be first with this and ever you know, this is
a hey, this is a great opportunity. This is the
first time Kirk and Spock really got to be friends.
Bold But we don't need that.

Speaker 22 (01:33:17):
We don't need that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
Now it's a mind meld though, Now I really understand you,
and now we can be friends. Crap hack writing. You
got plenty of time to plant seeds and they have
been planning seeds with Kirk and Spot. Just an occasional
mind here and there. That's all we need. That's all
we need. But no, no, no, now, mind no, I
don't know we're friends, crab crab.

Speaker 12 (01:33:38):
Question for you about about con for for a show
that is called con, I feel like Andrews is not as.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
Of a character is what I thought it would be,
And I guess in an audio is rama? Like, yeah,
it's different than a TV show. Unders the TV show
you do a number of episodes, can in the same
person every scene. But you know, I don't have a party,
but I don't think you would have. You spend more
time with Con unless with the other characters.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
I hear what you're saying, Pete, and then and Larry
unfortunately has heard the first episode. I really thought, I
loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
Yeah, and I really thought episode four in the fact
that Marla is telling him, Hey, you know, several of
your people have died. We need to honor that, we
need to have a funeral. And also the pushback that
Marla has given Cohn has kind of put them on
equal footing, and we are. I think we are seeing
more moments, and especially in four, where we're seeing some

(01:34:36):
more of Con lieutenant's and how he's dealing with them.
We got a little bit of evidence in episode one.
But I hear what you're saying. But I also do
think that it is important to see Con through the
eyes of not only Marla, but the Augments, and he
really is a symbol as much as he is a character.
So I don't mind them spending as much time as

(01:34:58):
they are with the augment. So it's it's that great
theory that Orson Wells used to say that he was
in a play and he played mister Wu and because
back then it was okay for Orson wants to play
a character named mister Woo, and he said, everybody ever
was talking about mister Wu in the first Egg and oh,
mister Woo ostrog and he doesn't show up until literally
the very last moment of act one, and then the

(01:35:19):
curtain comes up, who's here? Boom, and it's like and everyone,
he said, an internet should be like, man, how about
that mister Wu. Isn't that mister Woo amazing? You know whatever?

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Now go on, right, I mean he's the master of
that people talk about the character and film.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
He hears, yeah, no, so so yeah. Like I said,
I was feeling that way too, Pete until this episode
and it's like all right, okay. And also again they
seem to have what they think are solutions to their
issues and that's cool. And I mean, like even to
create that silica to infect the worms, they're like, hey,

(01:35:56):
we can. We can make it from the shells, from
the shellfish of the planet. And it's like, okay, there
you go. And they're thinking, and they're trying to sum
and we'll build stronger huts to live in, and we'll
have constant security in case the worms show up, and
we'll try and kill them and stuff. I mean all
that is really and I'm trying to keep out some

(01:36:16):
of the details. Hilaria has something.

Speaker 6 (01:36:19):
Telling you.

Speaker 5 (01:36:22):
Gopoilers here.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
I don't care about spoilers as well, like the experience.

Speaker 5 (01:36:30):
Yeah, yeah, so here's where we got.

Speaker 10 (01:36:32):
This is what we have to look for me if anything, right, Uh,
Marvelin has to die off six blow up?

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:36:43):
Are there anything?

Speaker 12 (01:36:44):
Is there anything in between their plot points that like
they have to touch on for everybody to be happy?

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Well again, I think introducing this idea from the historian
on the Excelsior, going, uh, why didn't the Reliant realize
that there were only five planets after after the fact,
something's wrong here and we need to know that. We
need to know the answer, and they really better not
just be Oh that's interesting anyway, back to back to
the con ship, no I. And it's great because it

(01:37:13):
elevates the framing of the story to like, all right,
now there's a problem regarding uh the period of the Excelsior,
going back to SETI Alpha five and getting the straight story.
And I loved how Sulu was like, hey, we know
who kN is he was a dick? Was gone? Was
the dick. I can speak from personal experience. He was

(01:37:34):
a dick, and it's like, all right, you know, yeah,
that's cool that he'd be so against it. And I
liked this story. It's like, wait a minute, he was
also a human being. What caused him to get so angry?

Speaker 5 (01:37:45):
What happened there?

Speaker 1 (01:37:46):
All right? So and I'm glad, all right, it all
makes sense. Great, so we're going back to we'll go
through the archives.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
And but I kind of liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
She's like, heyy Kirk, and I'm like, you know, you know, fine,
how about the reliance that was? That was you know,
twenty years later? And why why didn't they notice that
there's only five plans when there used to be six?
I don't buy it there. I think there's got to
be an answer to that question, you know, I hope,

(01:38:14):
So yeah, yeah I will.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
While you were talking, I do have one thing. I
gotta split in a second, but but I that I
only had West.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
So you know, you're making good points and everything, but.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
The one thing I am said something that made me excited,
And like, what are you excited about Star Trek? I
love that the legos are coming. I've been dying for
Star Trek like yeah, for like twenty five years. So
that's merch.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
Hey man, it's all about sadly folks, it's all about
the merch. But that''s not I.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
Mean it's a two handed thing, right. I mean I
want to buy the shirt, I want to buy the models.
I want to buy the Legos and if you do
shitty like stories like one of the things about the
Legos I'm so excited about. The first thing they did
was Next Gen Crew and the Enterprise. D Okay, I
get that, but that's gonna be a lot. I want

(01:39:12):
little sets, right, It's gonna be so easy to do
the Guardian Forever. And then you get you know, a
couple of Hobos and that's a thirty dollars set, right,
and you do like Vasquez rocks, like here's an environment
with and then here's some other guys. That's forty dollars set,
Like give me all that stuff. Anyway, I talked to

(01:39:32):
John Price about this on our show and he went
off and like, oh, I just want a whole line
of ships, and then the ancillary things will be like
just the cells, like give me you like fourteen the
cells in a box and I'll build my own ships. Right,
and because people love Star Trek and they don't. It's
like they don't want us to like, here's some freaking

(01:39:55):
crap and we have Star Trek on the outside. Now
just eat it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
Well. They even mess with the models of the ships
where hey, guess what Discovery has retractable or not retractable attached? What?

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
What?

Speaker 6 (01:40:10):
How is that?

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
How is that?

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
It looks cool? I'll grant you that. It sure looked
just like when the saucer separation would happen next generation.
It looks cool. And even that made sense, where Okay,
the civilians will be on the saucer and the battle
bridge will will fight the fight the bad guys. Fine,
this makes no sense, none, none. And also I hated
in the final season when the two starships went into

(01:40:33):
the planet and dug into the desert and everything. You
guys tried too hard. They have a lot of stuff
that looks cool, but it doesn't make sense from a
story standpoint. And again they don't know how to spend
their money. So there, I'll let you go.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
Thanks, Thanks John, Hey Pete, it was cool talking to you.
And I love Star Trek. It doesn't sound like it,
but I do.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
Court Tuesdays and Fridays, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
And sometimes Wednesdays. It's you know, been talking with our
buddies about stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
We like look for the dor dork like we're dressed,
like yeah, all right, all right, Captain staysy good time,
you man.

Speaker 12 (01:41:11):
There we go, John, I got two more things before
I say good that to number one Drew to Kai,
I have not met him before.

Speaker 3 (01:41:19):
He's going to be up to New York.

Speaker 12 (01:41:21):
I'm looking forward to getting to assign the comic of
his life that he just recently publishes.

Speaker 3 (01:41:26):
You probably will where I will drop. They should join
join you in a discussion on Merblin. So we'll see
if I get here him. He may not be at
a stable You never know. I basically I wanted to
join the cast, and I want you to be a
happy man. You are, but like with with with with

(01:41:48):
with all this, and I.

Speaker 10 (01:41:49):
Know the disappointment of a fandom and like when you
get there, you know, yeah, you're you're we're in a
bad period here.

Speaker 6 (01:41:59):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
We'll get through it. Etcat Dude. As comic book fans,
we understand when a creative team that we don't like
takes over a book and it's like all right now,
Obviously the change happens faster in comics. It that it
clearly has for the last eight years of our suffering
of New Trek and everything. But I knew this wouldn't

(01:42:23):
last forever, and I hope that given how sky Dance
has rejected most of their ideas as we hear, I
don't know if it's definite or not, but it certainly
seems that way, and especially the agreement or lack of
an agreement of well we need five seasons. Well we're

(01:42:44):
not getting five seasons. We'll give you a two hour movie.
Oh that's not enough. Well we're not giving you ten episodes,
all right, And they finally had to negotiate to six,
and Alonzo Myers and both h and Akiva Goldsman, Henry
Alonzo Myers, they've been very candid about that that that's
what they're getting for the and that's why the fifth
season is only six episodes. They were only going to
get to a two hour movie. So it's good that

(01:43:06):
they convinced that. But also the Tawny Newsome work place
comedy that she wanted to choose pitching doesn't seem like
it's getting any traction. The one thing that might be
getting traction, and I think sky Dance might be interested
in it. And as much as I'd rather that they
look uh towards the future, that would be post pcard
season three. But if they're going to do another prequel,

(01:43:27):
I'm all for President Archers showed that they're proposing, and
there was actually even some news about that, so you know,
you know, yeah, so so yeah, man, I'm fine. I mean, honestly,
you know, I'm okay. Don't worry about me.

Speaker 20 (01:43:42):
Yeah, I know how much it because my wife, she
was big the Jking movies. Right, it might not be
at a raise cop of tea. And I have to say,
you know, everything I said is my own personal belief here, right.

Speaker 3 (01:43:55):
Of course, of course, Oh I need nothing that anybody
you know. I can't hit a TV show, right, That's
one thing from that I learned. You know, like the
stuff that you like and try not to crap all
the other stuff. It's really hard to do this stuff right.
But at the same time, it ain't good at least
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
And it's no different than Star Wars fans. And I
think after this many years of a franchise enduring, I
think there is a fair reasonable expectation from a fan
to go, Okay, we know how the box is shaped,
tell stories inside that box. Don't don't try to make it.

(01:44:35):
I mean again, they love the gimmicks, Strange Wolves loves
the gimmicks and and they are convinced because the kids
love the gimmicks, and so we're gonna give you more.
Get Hey, look here's Poppet Pike. Yeah, yay, And it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
No can.

Speaker 23 (01:44:50):
But like and I've I've chatted in in the past
and talked about your goal and how for for whenever
that air the essence what we're looking forward again, And
it didn't succeed on network television and had to make
it over streaming.

Speaker 3 (01:45:06):
So you're right from a business perspective, probably you know
they don't make money anymore. But yeah, the essence is
what it was.

Speaker 17 (01:45:15):
And they had a lot of of of of old
Star Trek people I think behind the scenes producing that
and seth mc farlane clearly was somebody that love Star
Trek and I had absolutely no idea how did get sued.

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
I would I would have thought that that is so
close there's no way a lawsuit. But you must be
very friendly with black people in Holly with it. I
don't know, like a show like that, right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
Like, I don't know, well, it was, it was the
orble was different enough that you know, they can't claim
copyright infringement or anything.

Speaker 14 (01:45:48):
And it was.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
It certainly was, especially initially it was much more of
a parody and you're not gonna get sued for a
parody and everything. Now that back to old time radio
Jack Benny. They tried the studio tried a movie studio
try to sue him for a parody of a movie
that he did on his radio show. And the Judge's like, no,
this is parody. Parody is fair game. And ever since then,

(01:46:09):
any you know, that's why SNL doesn't get sued for
the things they make fun of and stuff. It's like, no,
until well, we'll see what happens.

Speaker 3 (01:46:18):
The way things are going.

Speaker 19 (01:46:19):
But yeah, no, I mean back to back to, back
to cons it's exciting. I never really listened to audio dramas.
I think you're doing a good job. I'm looking for
it's going. Whether or not it's I don't know, it
will live in my head. I agree the books back
in the day, So I'm enjoying getting to see sort
of why Conmoso.

Speaker 15 (01:46:39):
Indictive when when they showed up there to investigate what
were they looking for? The Genesis planet? A good A
good planet to drop that bomb or whatever it was?

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know what.
Yeah again, I think I think this development in this
episode opens a very interesting plot point that I wasn't
expecting and it's intriguing and I hope that they take
it to the goal line and give us a really
interesting nugget. And whether it's cana or not, it doesn't

(01:47:14):
You're right, it doesn't matter as long as it's entertaining,
and so far after four episodes, I think it's entertaining
and obviously you do.

Speaker 12 (01:47:21):
So Yeah, thank you for having me. Thanks to the
regular crew for track Watch Live. Look forward to watching
you guys next time. Shout about all this and as always,
uh I'll see on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:47:36):
All right, man, thanks for your help. Pete, take it easy.
I want to apologize to Wes. I'm sorry. I feel
like I show trifted him given the amount of time
we split with Pete, but you know, there were a
lot lots to cover, a lot to cover. I also
wanted to point out a Bond story. Did I put
up the Bond thing. I guess I didn't, did I not?
I did not. I'll save it for next week. Very

(01:47:56):
interesting stuff, not not a big thing. I just well,
you know, I'll even tell you that. Apparently Amazon has
been messing with photos of Bond where he's holding a
gun and now all of a sudden, it's just a
fist and it's like, well, we want to downplay the
gun thing. It's like, then, then pick other screencaps to
promote your movies. There are plenty of their moments some
Bond without him holding a gun. You don't have to,

(01:48:19):
you know, erase the gun and everything. This is the
mentality we're fighting against kids. I get it. I absolutely understand,
but I don't know how to break it to you.
The guy is licensed to kill. You know, you're not
gonna take then the gun out of the punisher saying
all right, maybe you will.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
I gotta check with Dan pan Ocean and Jammy Palmatti
is doing with Frank Castle now that he's back. I'm
excited for that. I'm really excited for that. I can't
wait to read some of that stuff. It's gonna be amazing. Well,
thanks a lot for watching and listening everybody. I really
appreciate your attention, and uh, you know, our art. Franco

(01:48:58):
and Wayne and Mitch will be back. It might not
be till later in October, it might not be till November.
But I felt bad. I didn't want to. It became
like a homework assignment for them to stay on top of.
Even Wayne, who watches more than even I do on
certain shows, has just been busy and he's like, yeah,
I haven't listened to episode four yet, and I didn't

(01:49:19):
want to spoil for him, and that's why I was
happy to do the show without him. Franco is busy
with his stuff, and Mitch just isn't feeling it yet
for the podcast, so it's like, all right, so you know,
no problem again, and I certainly want their opinions, and folks,
this isn't the John is Right podcast by any stretch
of the imagination. I hope you recognize that. Just give
him my opinion, that's all. But I hope you enjoyed

(01:49:39):
the talk tonight, and we'll do this again. We'll do
it either next Friday or next Saturday and delve more
into Star Trek Con, which I'm really enjoying. And looking
forward to episode five. Thanks for watching, thanks for listening. Everybody,
Stay safe, stay happy, stay healthy.

Speaker 23 (01:50:01):
I

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