Josh Trujillo sends The FF To The Planet Of The Apes

Josh Trujillo talk about the upcoming marvel crossover the planet of the apes versus the fantastic four . you can tell from our talk he's done his homework on both sides

we also discuss his dc go digital comiic about aquaman in the D Sea universe. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody time again for Word Balloon, the comp
Conversation show, Josh Sucher's with you. Josh Shruheo is back. Now.
You might know Josh from his wonderful Blue Beetle run
from a year or so ago for DC, but currently
he's got two great things going on at DC go
their digital comic book thing that they're doing on DC

(00:21):
Universe and other places. He's doing a fantastic Aquamand story
and really interesting dettel about that. But right at the top,
we're talking about a Marvel crossover that's coming in February
that absolutely deserves your attention. It is the Planet of
the Apes versus the Fantastic Four? Are you kidding me?
And Josh absolutely proves himself to be a diehard Ape fan,

(00:43):
a diehard Fantastic Four fan. This comes out in February
from Marvel. The cutoff day to order it is January fifth,
But I'm telling you this is fantastic. As a diehard
FF fan and Planet of the Apes fan, this is
legit and Josh knows what he's doing. So lots of
fun stuff to talk about with Josh Shrugillo on today's

(01:04):
Word Balloon.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
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(02:45):
the Comic Book Conversation Show. John Santris with you. Happy
to welcome back Josh Stroho to word Balloon. Get to
see you man.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, thanks for having me. Happy holidays.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Happy holidays to you and a man. We're already looking
towards twenty twenty six with a really cool book that
you've got coming out, a new Marvel project, and a
fantastic crossover the comic We didn't know we wanted, but
we certainly are glad it's gonna be out there. Yes,
it's the Fantastic Four in the Planet of the Apes.
What's that title? Actually, what is it?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's Fantastic four Planets of the Apes versus Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Four versus Fantastic for this, I was I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I was like, wait, does it meet the Fantastic for
do they fight? It's it's versus Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
For yes, and I am all for it. I'm a
big fan of both properties, and especially we'll keep it
spoiler free everybody because it's not coming out till February,
but the kind folks that Marvel gave me a sneak
peek and it looks fantastic. Tell everybody who your artist is.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Oh sure, We've got Andrew Devino on as our main artist.
And man, they really knocked the hell out of this
one because the as you know, these are based off
the seventies Apes, and so you know, back then, the
makeup is kind of primitive, so to speak, and so
you don't get a lot of emotion out of the
facial expressions, and so some of the Apes comics or

(04:05):
any sort of drawing of the apes. If they exaggerate
the motions too much, it looks off right, it looks
on it doesn't look it doesn't feel right, or it
feels too stiff. But Andrea has really taken it over, like,
has really made it his own. And it's incredible to
see how much emotion he's able to bring out of
these characters and still make them feel unmodel. That's always
the trick with these licensed books.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
That's interesting. Did you have a chance to go back
to Marvel's seventies ape magazines and see what they were
doing with the ape stories. Doug Munch, the fantastic writer
of fan Chi, among other things in Batman, even in
the eighties, he was one of the main ape writers
back then.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
It's amazing how big with those comics, or even some
of the stuff they that they have in like fan
magazines in the eighties and nineties, like the way they
expand out the world because they're not a lot of
world building, and I mean there is in the first film,
but it's a limited world. We don't know what the
whole planet is like. And then these comics will take
you there and explore it, and like you do in
the five movies and the TV show.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah absolutely, man, No, I mean I remember one story.
I don't remember specifics, but it was like literally like
a riverboat, like a Mark Twain sort of riverboat and stuff,
and there was like gamblers and things, and no, it
was You're right. It was absolutely more will building world building.
And also they would add extra scenes to some of
the established movies. I remember they did Escape from the

(05:28):
Planet of the Apes and you saw the perspective from
the spaceship as it was traveling back in time and
you saw Zero looking through the window and everything that's
not in the movie, but you know they yeah, yeah,
So no, I'm with you, man, And again, great idea
to match these two up. I mean, I'm sure I
understand now that Disney owns Fox properties and stuff, it's

(05:50):
a great opportunity to do crossovers like this. And I
love those seventies designs. I mean, I just think they're
the best. That's why I don't know, man, I can't
up to the Reeves movies. I love the first one. Yeah,
is it played like an outer limits to me or
the Twilight Zone. But yeah, I don't know, I haven't
had that excited like need to see the new Ape movies.

(06:13):
How about you.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
I like the new Ape movies. I will admit that
my heart's kind of with the classic ones. The third one,
Escape is my favorite of the Apes movies. I think
it's the best one. But beyond that, the New Reeves movies,
I think they're they're trying to make everything Shakespeare right.
So it's very broad and operatic and powerful, and like,
that's great, and like Andy Serkis gets probably his best
performance in it, in the second one in particular, But

(06:38):
my heart's with the old ones. I think this crossover
is for like the kids who grew up with the
seventies and eighties material and like have been pushing the
action figures together the whole life. Now you get to
see it.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Absolutely, No, that's great. I mean, you know, you need
you need Cornelia Sincera, you need Doctor Zayas and some
of the others. And again we'll keep in general, but no, man,
and I'm so with you on Escape being the best
of the five movies, because it starts off weird, then
it becomes a comedy, and then half way through, hey,

(07:09):
we're hunting the Apes and you know, and all of
a sudden it becomes this very tense suspense movie with
a very grisly ending. Jesus you know.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
No, yeah, it's so grim and I remember watching it like,
oh gosh, probably on like AMC or Sci Fi like
weekend afternoon rerun they just run on every weekend, and like,
you know, this isn't like one pm on a Saturday morning.
It's like, oh, okay, I guess they just shot and
a spoiler alert for Escape from the planet the Ear,
but they shoot the baby like they're they're not afraid
to go there. In these movies, you know, they both planted.

(07:40):
In the second one they kill the baby, and the
third one, it's like these movies are so dark, but
they're you know, they're they're before PG thirteen, so they're.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
All ready to be g or g josh. I've been
talking about AI lately on the show, and there's another
movie of that era called Colossus The Forben Project. I
don't know if you know that movie. No, I don't
know this one, all right. It's a it's actually mentioning
both beneath well more so escape. Eric Brayden, the guy
who plays the scientist you know with the German action.

(08:10):
Here's a painting of a painting that guy he's a
scientist in Colosses and he creates this supercomputer that is
supposed to run the US military and especially like the
nuclear missiles and everything. Well, it gets so smart. This
is nineteen seventy. It gets so smart it talks to
the Soviet equivalent and basically both decide, you know something,

(08:32):
these humans can't be responsible for their own actions. Let's
take over the world. And they do that. And it's
a fantastic discar I mean, the orders of spoil two reasons. One,
it's a fifty five year old movie, and b it's
it's also I think it's amazing and incredibly prescient. And
I've been talking to friends that are screenwriters in movie

(08:54):
and TV people, and I'm like, somebody's got to remake this.
And then it dawned to me. I'm like, you know,
by the time it takes, you know, two years to
make a movie, I'm like, by the time they're done
with it, it's ai is gonna be different. It's gonna
be in a different place than it is right now.
It may be bust by then, who knows you, Or
it may get smarter and in a and appear in
a very different way than the way it is.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, it's interesting too because in writing for sci fi
in general, you know, you're always in these days, it
feels like you're trying to hit a moving target. Or
with the apes and these apes because everything they do
is about like the nature of society and mankind and
all this stuff, and so like it's it's interesting to

(09:36):
try to stay ahead of the curve because our life
is moving, things are accelerating so fast.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
How do you keep up?

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Even in comics it takes sometimes what I say, it's
about eighteen months from when someone has an idea to
when it comes out, and so you can have a
great idea for an AI storyline, but by the time
it comes out, it's already it's real.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Life, right, And that's what I'm saying, and absolutely so.
But yeah, I bring it up because again, like you said,
a lot, well, pretty much every Ape movie does not
end well, from the Statue of Liberty to even the
fifth movie where maybe there's hope but probably not. I
love that that final Oh yeah, yeah, right, Caesar said.

(10:16):
But I love I love all five of them, I
really do. Man. So no, I'm always happy to talk apes.
And that's great, man, because we got a couple of
decades between us. But see when I was growing up,
not only they were in like the afternoon movie, I'm
like the local channels and stuff. And then also the
drive ins would have like ape weekends and they would

(10:36):
run off five like all night long. You want to
really get to fret strap in man, watch the watch
the Earth end in several different ways over five movies.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Ah, that's so funny. My marathons tend to run out
after about the fourth one. No offense to uh was
a Battle for the Planet of the eight Battle.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's an inchest. I mean it's so
low budget. And also back then it was rated G,
which is interesting and you know, but they really were
strapped for effects. But oh god, now I'm forgetting his name.
The British director that did five. But he's a really
good like he was a good World War Two director

(11:15):
and actually a good action director and he did a
great job. And I don't know if you're watching, he
says he was a he's a Conquest fan, which, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Conquest is great. Conquest is like it takes all the
social commentary, just makes a comment or he just puts
it front and center. Such a good job with that
Roddy McDowell. He's so great in all these movies, but
I think he's actually the best in Conquest.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Absolutely. You know, it's crazy. You know he's not in
Beneath the second one.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh, that's right, because it's some other guy is Cornelia.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
He was doing another movie because really he loved he
loved the producer, Arthur Jacob said. Jacobs loved him too,
but they unfortunately, they had a conflicent schedule. So yeah,
they got this British guy to play Cornelis for that
and again with the makeup at Dell.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
But I know it's true, but I heard that Roddy
McDowell had had the Lawgiver statue in his yard for
years and years and years after the movies wrapped.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, and also Dana Gould bought Roddy McDowell's house, the
Comedian and yeah, you're right. No, they had the Loggiver,
which is I mean, can you imagine? And I guess
Sammy Davis also had a Loggiver statue.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Davis Junior is like a fan of Planet of the
That's so funny, hey man, you don't think about these
things coexisting at the same time.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
But they did absolutely, man, No, and he was he
was good friends with Arthur Jacobs, the producer of the movies.
Not you know, honestly, man. I Also people don't realize
that before Star Wars, the big merchandizing like success and
especially for Fox, was Planning of the Apes and that
they were so dumb when it came to Star Wars

(12:56):
and Lucas is like, hey, I want the merchand I
said like, yeah, good luck. And it's like you just
had a huge, you know, success with all the EPE
licensing dummies.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, they have no idea what was coming, which is
crazy because we wouldn't have Star Wars without Planet of
the Apes. There's no way they would have taken a
risk on that movie.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
That's that's a very interesting point of view on that.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
No.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I hear what you're saying, man, and that's cool. Do
you mention the TV show? Have you watched the TV show?

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I used to watch it in rerun obviously in reruns,
I guess, yeah. I used to and watch a little
bit of it. I have no no real memory, strong memories.
It's just them running around with rifles sometimes and shooting,
you know what I mean. It's just it's just like
a classic like a team kind of action show.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, they you'll forgive me. I'm a big especially classic
star Trek fan. The guy who played Sarah Spock's father,
Mark Leonard is general ursus in uh in the TV
show and there was a different says it wasn't Murray
sevens but you know for what it was. And also
you know, Roddy mcdell played Galen instead of Cornelius or

(13:59):
se right. But no, I mean it's a shame that
it didn't get a chance to live. But you know
that was the case with the Lana genre shows. You know,
we were in the six Million Dollar Man, A Wonder
Woman were like rare exceptions to the usual, like shows
that were out in one season and stuff.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, you don't think about how some of these shows
were only running for like thirteen episodes, but they're really
they've been in reruns forever and ever and ever, Like
Greatest American Hero. I think it's like two seasons, but
it's been you know, it's been on.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Forever again, old enough to remember when it was. But
so I know what you mean, man, No that's true,
but uh yeah, crazy all right, ff though, I mean
always the cosmic travelers, so it isn't surprising that one
of their missive adventures might find themselves in this ape world.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, this is one of the funny ones because normally
when they do these crossovers, like it's Godzilla or even
though Godzilla has a history in the Marvel comics obviously,
but you know, they do Godzilla or they do something
like the Hedgehog over DC or whatever it is, people
are always like, what how they think of that? And
then this one they announced it and everyone's like, oh, yeah,
that makes sense, and one's like, yeah, of course they

(15:04):
do that, Like of course the Fantastic Four would end
up on the planet of the Apes.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Did you read you know again, these are old these
are old comics. But the twenty ninety nine books, they
had a Fantastic Four book and it was cool because
it had the team like in a year one uh situation,
finding themselves in the future. And it was really interesting
because it really yeah, it was like this Lee Kirby
Fantastic Four suddenly being in twenty ninety nine and stuff,

(15:31):
and it was it was a really interesting idea.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's a really smart way to do it.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
I mean, are they would you say that your team
is of the moment. I mean, certainly you can say, well,
they're timeless, but yeah, how would you characterize where the
four are?

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, that's a fair question. I think my take on
them is, uh, it's not quite Jonathan Hickman Secret Wars.
But they've been they've been through this before, They've been
through this sort of thing before, you know what I mean. Yeah,
they are. They aren't necessarily the Lee Herby like Invisible Girl,
Great Gang, but they they have a lot, and they

(16:05):
have the experience. They're the characters, you know, for the
most part, I say, for hopefully for the complete part.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
I would say, so, yeah, man.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
They're interesting. They're interesting to write against the Apes, I'll say,
because the Apes are allowed to be bastards and jerks
and say terrible things to you and make big mistakes,
and the Fantastic Four just don't do that, you know
what I mean. So that's that's the balancing off of it, right.
It's not like the Jetsons are the Flintstones crossing over

(16:33):
where their worlds kind of blend pretty seamlessly in terms
of tone. The Apes are so serious and so dark
and so socially conscious, and then the Fantastic Four are
like the epitome of like clean, slick futuristic heroes.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
And also, again we can keep it spoiler free, but
it is obvious that the four are going to show up.
They can speak, and certainly that's the last thing they're
expecting from humans on the planet the apes do we know?
And again, if you can't answer, is this before the
events of Taylor Charlton Heston's character in.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Those three I there were a couple of ways to
go about this in terms of the timeline, right, yes,
because the end of the second movie really complicates telling
stories going forward. Well, certainly, yeah, there's no planet after
the second movie, so I wanted to incorporate all the
classic characters because Zerra and doctor Zayas has actually been
the most fun character I think I've written in like years.

(17:30):
But it takes place between the first end of the
first movie and the beginning of the second movie. There's
a vague period that isn't really established how long it's
been after Taylor goes into the Forbidden Zone and when
the guy who isn't Charlton Heston comes, Sir comes to
the brand.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, Brent James Franciscus, Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, James Francisius. So it takes place between those moments.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
It's in another room, or I'd pull out my migo
of Brent that I bought years ago. That's how much
of a plan of the Apes fan I am. I'm like, oh,
they finally made a Brent. I'm like, I am all
in for that. Continue. Excuse me.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
No, it's fine. So we won't see Charlton Heston and
we won't see Nova, but we see all all see
all our Apes friends, and we're kind of seeing a
little bit of the aftermath of Taylor and we're seeing
I'm putting some threads out there, there's some questions in
the later Apes movies and how did this happen? And
so the Fantastic Four get the help explain away that

(18:30):
I'm that continuity guy in the for the most part.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's great, man. Well, that's honestly. I think Ape fans
and others kind of look for that, and that's one
of the reasons why too, I was wondering where the
four were as far as the story. No, that's cool,
and again I can appreciate the potential story opportunities because
there is this space between both movies that I think
can be explored. Another guy that did great adaptations of

(18:56):
the Ape story was this writer Andrew Gaska. He did
illustrated novels. A couple of years ago. I had him
on my show and he even did the like, uh,
he got these wonderful artists or the publisher did to
do these paintings within this ill It was a full
pros novel, but it had occasional spot illustrations, and one

(19:18):
of them was the Apes dredging up Taylor's capsule and
you know Dodtor Milo. Yeah, and then basically told the
story of how Doc Doctor Milo was able to reverse
engineer how to fly the ship. You know.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So that's one of those questions you watch the movies
and you're like, this doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, And that's the thing I mean, as you say,
I think this is this is an opportunity for some
world building. So beyond Ape City, might we see other
eight locations?

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, we'll see, We'll see the outskirts of Ape City.
There's uh, what am I trying to say. There's a
there's a drought that is a big plot point in
the second movie Beneath the kind of forces earned versus
his excursion into the Forbidden Zone, and we're going to
see the beginnings of that and how that affects the

(20:06):
ape farmers basically who live on the outskirts. So it's
a battle for ape civilization. They never get a break.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
That's cool, that's fantastic. There's a fantastic twist everybody in
the last moments of the first issue that I will
just leave at that, one.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Of those classic I can't believe they let me do
that moment.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's great. Man, who's that editting you right now?

Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's Martin Bureau. So we work together on My first
Marvel work with him was a hell Cow short if
you know, hell Cow for the blood Hunters crossover blood Hunt,
and then we did a Gambit one shot at the
beginning of last or this year, where so what if
Gambit became a Herald of Galactus? Was cool because we
had had the costume was designed by Ron Limb, so

(20:51):
it was like just bleeding nineties energy off of them.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, that's a good cosmic guy to tap too.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Oh yeah, And for Gambit, it's like the perfect art
I think naturally for that for at least for the designs.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
And who who did this cover for the f f oh.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Gosh, that is Greg Land himself, the legend.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
There you go, absolutely, and we have a.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Great b cover and we have some there's some movie
homage variant that haven't been shown out yet, but I'm
excited for people to see those. So they're having a
lot of fun with it they're doing. You know, it's
like Marvel Tape takes on on eight Posters Ape takes
on classic Marvel moments, anything they can find in between.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know. I remember when I d W had the
license and they did a start original series Star Trek
crossover with the apes and yeah man and j d J. JK.
Woodward was the was the artist, and it was great because, yeah,
it was a great opportunity to show like them being
like I think Spock in Nova were being carted away

(21:49):
in one of those wagons like we see in the movies. Yeah,
and the and the bamboo cage, you know, one of
them was in the Wow.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I love those like jungle gym looking cages that the
humans are in. Sometimes there's so much great visual stuff
and I was I was watching some video about it
a while ago. I think there's inspired by like architecture
in Tanzania or something that's completely insane, like they the
production designer found this old like African architecture book and
was like, oh, we just let's just do this, like

(22:18):
this looks like it's from another world.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I think Ape City was kind of decaying by the
time of Beneath, but it kind of still worked. It's
like whatever material they used to construct those kind of
Hudson everything that they lived in. And also is interesting
because the second director, this guy Ted Post, was really
a TV director, really didn't do many movies, and I

(22:42):
really I love Beneath. I think Beneath is a cool
like again, it has an incredibly depressing ending.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
But I think the last twenty thirty minutes of Beneath
are like some of the best of the apes. It is.
It is dark and weird and suspenseful, and the mutants
are great, like the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
The whole thing is treat my friend our Baltizar will
chant the the mutant onto my God, which is off key,
and he does it off key. It's fantastic. But no, man,
I know I love those all those people, you know,
including I believe Natalie Trundy was the female mutant, and

(23:21):
also she's one of the science the good scientists.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
I never read that connection, but yeah, I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah she's Arthur. She was Arthur Jake's the producer's wife.
And good she was a good actress. But yeah, I
love the I love the Mutants. And that's why I
love the final movie because them, you know, the Mutans
come out of out of the subterranean caves and they
try to make an attack on ahe city and it's
great because it's so low budget and they got like
one school bus and maybe it's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right, they're just getting kids from the neighborhood. They're getting
anyone they can to show up on the back lot
that day.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Here and again, good to see, and says in Beneath
when the mutants peel off their faces freaking out, Oh god,
yeah man, because you know they look all nice and
clean with their with their cowls, and then all of
a sudden, it's like, hey, guess who had radiation fallout?
All of us?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
All right, great, I'm so great. They're worshiping the bomb the.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Whole Yes, honestly, again, like these ideas, I don't remember
who was it roll do all. I can't remember who
wrote a lot of the movies. But that's great science
fiction man.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh yeah, even like Rod Serling did some draft of Yeah,
I think yeah. And I think he wrote a couple
of the episodes of the TV.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Show Wow, I'm gonna have to look at them. Correct me.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm wrong, But I think he did a couple of
teleplays for them.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's cool. Well. And of course the novel by Peter
Boulet and and and Serling's original draft are very different
from what we got in sixty eight in the first movie.
But Dana Gould, the comedian again who I said had
Roddy mcdeal's house. He he adapted Serling's original screenplay when
Boom had the license, and it was it was interesting.
It's really interesting to see. Did you watch the screen

(25:08):
test with Edward g. Robinson when they were first testing
the make Actually, yeah, that's on YouTube everybody if you
haven't seen it with.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
A Boom That did Gabrielle Hartman for some of the apes.
Those were beautiful, those one those ones really caught my
attention when they came out.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, Gabs, Gabs a good friend of mine. He uh,
you know, he he did some great ape comics. Uh,
and I was referred It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
I was.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So, I was telling a friend today that we were
going to talk tonight, and I was talking about Gabe's
Run and Gabe Gabe like they were about twenty years
before the first movie and isaiahs as a young man,
and so I refer to the series as the Adventures
of Young Doctor Ziah's because that's that's kind of what
it was. Yeah's they're cool. And again, you know it's

(25:53):
it's those original designs again, that's I mean the Tim
Burton movie. He didn't know what he was doing.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, he really anyone who worked on that movie I were,
I don't really talking about it. H It's about It's
about the first five for me for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, man, No, I'm with you. I'm with you. Although,
but like Tony Fleece is like, you gotta watch the
other than just the Franco.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
You gotta watch threes. Those are really good. Three is dark.
Three is as dark as any APE movie gets.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, I'll have to get to it. I hear you, man.
So what are some of your favorite f F runs?

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Oh gosh, uh The first one that comes to mind
is the Mark Wade and Ringo uh Ron. That's a
classic for me. That kind of was my entry point
for the universe and that way. Yeah, oh yeah, and
Mark Wade just makes everything so accessible for the most part,
so you just like just start going from there. My
favorite storyline is probably the Trial of Galactus. That one

(26:50):
was like when it was mind expanding ones and then
you go back and read like the classic Kirby stuff.
But it's interesting because it's like all the Kirby stuff
for the Fantastic scores, like the Book of Genesis, right,
It's like it's like held up there to such a
pantheon and then we're just kind of in the shadows
of these amazing stories that happened back then. Those are
so yeah, they really set an incredible foundation for the series.

(27:13):
And oh my god, don Adam Ryan North is on
it right now.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
And yes, oh my god, Ryan's killing it.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
He's killing it. Hit the smartest person in comics, just
like those are some His Squirrel Girl was dense and intelligent,
and this Fantastic Four is like that to the next power.
I'm with you, I'm a little intimidated writing those characters
to begin with, because Ryan North has his run and
I'm like, I don't know how robots work. I'm just

(27:41):
I don't know how quantum physics.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Work, do you? So you didn't coordinate at all with him.
I mean again, I'm kind of outside of continuity.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, we're we're we're beholden to continuity, but we do
not We're not in it. You know, it's we're not
interfering with it.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
No, I get it. It's gould be a story in
between mission, you know, in between the adventures that Brian
didn't get to.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
And I mean everyone says it, which you think it's
kind of cliche, But the thing is, is the easiest
character to write in comments that's greatly it really is.
I was like, oh, I just feel like it's gonna
sound a little cliche or whatever, and then you start
writing him and you're like, oh wait, no, as long
as you get the humanity in him.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, absolutely, and Ben has some challenges on the planet
of the Apes. Let's just leave it at that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Absolutely, I'm glad we get to do a lot of
interesting then stuff in this one.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
I bet, I bet. Also, I I again betraying my age.
I mean, I remember when you know Marvel twoin one
was essentially a thing book, and the really kind of
solo thing I mean even though he always had a
partner or whatever. You know, Yeah, they felt like, you know,
it was solo adventures, and yeah, I'm glad that. Yeah,

(28:59):
I'm always right that they don't. People don't really use
him more as a front and sea character, a front
and center character. Another one, and I'd be curious to
hear what you think The Invisible Woman.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
Oh, I love, I love too. Uh. It's great because
I feel like she gets a lot of she gets
a moment to shine in the miniseries, I will say,
And it was really fun to write her. I think that,
like she's always been a popular character, like there's no
mistaking that, but something about the movie that came out
last year or this year has really like catapulted her
because she was so prominent in that film, and I

(29:31):
think they did such a good job with her. It's
like everyone's crazy about The Invisible Woman right now.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, and honestly, I'll even admit just being an old
fashioned FT reader when they're like, oh, Sue's going to
be the leader, and it's like really, and again not
that not that she's not capable. So I used to
read being you know, in charge and no Vanessa Kirby
did a great job. It was really a great portrayal,
and I felt like the characters were very consistent with

(29:58):
what we get in the comics. And and also mentioning
our friend Mark Waite again when Mark was Sai at
Marvel still and there was finally an Invisible Woman's solo book,
and it's like, it's about fucking time.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's crazy how some of these characters will go fifty
years without anyone thinking of giving them a solo title.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah. Yeah. And also I was surprised A Force didn't
continue as well, the Old Woman hero team, and I'm like, no,
that's a good idea, do that, like, and I'm maintained it,
you know.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
I would be surprised to see it come back in
some form or another. Maybe team These team books are
interesting because some of them really hit and then some
others are I don't know, sales wise or whatever, they
kind of passed through. But I love the A Force lineup.
That was great because it's like, where else are you
gonna see Dazzler team up with Tigris?

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Absolutely? Man, Now, how is it? We're gonna talk about
your Aquamand book from uh earlier this year as well?
But and you've got multiple characters there, How is it
manipulating when you've got so many I mean not only
the FF but obviously all the eight characters as well,
and moving the chess pieces.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, you know you've read the issues, so you know
we did not just we did not only have the
Fantastic Four. We've got the four main Apes, Ursus Zayas,
Cornelius Zerra, We've got some fantasic classic Fantastic Four villains
and some weird oddball ones. And then of course we've
got He's on the cover, so you've got Doom. So

(31:28):
it's a it's a it's a big cast, and I'm
excited to do that. I love stories with their big ensemble.
I feel bad for the artists sometimes because he has
to draw scenes where their eight characters having a conversation,
but you know, we figure it out. It's a really,
it's a it's a it's a really interesting batch of
characters to throw against each other and trying to like

(31:50):
just thinking about like what would Doom think about the
planet of the Apes? You know what I mean, Like
what is Doom? What does Reed think? But what does
Doom think? Is he cool with this? Does you know
he's got so many He's still multifaceted, and he got
the sense of honor and like kind of justice in
some level. It's like really interesting to put him in
these hard sci fi conundrums.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
And if it's a spoiler, don't say it. Sure, but
do they know they're on Earth or do they think
it's another planet?

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Uh? How are is there? I don't think it's a spoiler.
It's something they're learning, something they're figuring out.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
I mean, obviously, you know, while the hips are speaking English,
so they must assume.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Right there, they know something weird is going on. Well sure, yeah,
well yeah, clearly obviously, I guess obviously they know something
weird is going on, but they it's something they slowly
pieced together. I would say, okay, but they're not a moment.
They're not really at such a big moment where they're
going to stand in front of the Statue of Liberty
at our screening.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Right, it should be the ruins of the Baxter building.
That's the other exciting potential without knowing what happens moving forward,
But it certainly would be interesting if they're to see
it deestimated New York like we saw it beneath the
planet of the Age.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh yeah, some of those shots of the decimated New
York and I know it's just a matte painting or whatever,
but it's still it's very effective.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
No, that's what I'm saying. Man, They like really cut
corners on the second movie, but they work because you're right,
it is a weird little matt painting or whatever, and
for and like I said, the same thing with Ape City,
it's like, no, actually all this stuff still works.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
So yeah, it's really it's uh, it's interesting some of
the notes we get from the studio whoever, you know,
you would I would hope that they never slack and
they don't hear at all. Like they get very thoughtful notes.
They're like, this is the kind of rifle the Apes youth,
this is, this is what, this is the exact shape
the windows in Ape City have to be. It's stuff

(33:44):
like that that like you would take for granted as
you know, Oh, it's just it's just any rifle, it's
just whatever. And it's like no, like they're they're so smart.
They have so much reference material for the artists and
they're immediately go pull out the wrong They're like, this
is the wrong shade of reddish brown stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Josh, that's reassuring because Gabe Hartman's a friend of mine
and he was telling me that he was really concerned
that the Fox Art department when the sale to Disney happened,
was going to go away because he's like, they've got
they had photos of every movie they shot, literally going
from the beginning of the sound era, so like literally

(34:25):
you could look up a nineteen thirty five Fox movie
and go, oh no, they did X, Y and Z
on that and had those kind of records. And it
is really reassuring to hear that those that movie franchise
is literally fifty plus years old, and that the current
people that are vetting your story are that detail oriented.
That's one.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
No, they're just as specific about it as they would
be probably with the Star Wars or a Star Trek
license or whatever it is. And that's really exciting for
me because I mean, they're the real you know, they're
the real fans.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Did they offer any sort of Bible of the Ape character?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Not for me. I think visually they provided a lot
of reference or they have access to that sort of thing.
For me, it was less like you know, it watched
the movies one hundred times down for that information into
your brain and try to get the character voices right.
And so like, you know, the Ape story is like
it's just so epic and sprawling and big, and it

(35:21):
really does match up well with the kind of stuff
the Fantastic Four I think are known for. It's like
these big ideas, these wacky situations. We could have a
lot of fun with it. But also there's a lot
of there's a lot of drama obviously, and we get
to see apes breaking a lot of laws left and right.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Ape has skilled Ape. No, this is no the culture clash,
and also to have it represented by the Four versus
you know, Charlton Heston's one man show of Taylor and everything. No,
I think again, it presents some interesting opportunities. And I'm
looking forward to the conversations between Zira and Sue and sure, hey,

(36:01):
is is Lucius going to show up the teenage Ape?
And are you Johnny gonna Bonda?

Speaker 3 (36:06):
I don't want to spoil I will say Julius the
That's who I meant, maybe.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Julius Julius Julius or Lucius I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Rememberbe's looking one of them is the prison guard. One
of them is the teenager. Whatever we see the prison
guard and I don't want to spoil anything for the
teenager yet.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Cool. No, that's great. Man again, I I think I
think you're off to a great start. When is the
final cutoff to order the book?

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I think it's uh or January fifth. I want to say, Okay,
go to your local shop and and and beg them
for some Planet of the Apes comics and some variants
and the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
How many issues for the series?

Speaker 3 (36:51):
We're four, which is always an interesting act structure to follow,
but with this cast it actually works out pretty well.
I will say it's I I were landing the ship.
I'm writing the fourth issue actually probably just this week.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
And communicating with Andrea.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah. Absolutely. He is so friendly. I think he's based
in Italy, but the most supportive, one of the most
supportive artists I've ever worked with. And every script I
know he pours through and he pulls out these moments
and he references them in the emails and he just
like this was really powerful. I feel like you're doing
a great job here and here and here, because sometimes
you know, they take the script they're like, okay, thank

(37:29):
you very much.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, So there's like a lot of passion coming from here.
And I don't know if he was an Apes fan already,
but it definitely shows in his artwork. I can't you know.
There's a double page spread I think that might have
already been revealed where the Fantastic Four are under trial
in Ape City, and it's like, oh, you were like,
you didn't you didn't slack on this.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
No, it looks great everybody. And again you got these
great land covers. I haven't seen any of the variants yet,
but no, it's a wonderful production and I will certainly
be paying attention as it comes out. That was really
I appreciate you guys all sending me that first issue.
I mean, again, as you can tell, I could talk
about this stuff without reading it, and and no, you know,
I have plenty to say about the potential of an

(38:14):
APE f F crossover and everything, but no, it's it's
really good and I think both FF fans and APE
fans will not be disappointed. So well done. U. Now
I want to ask about Aquaman and now was this
published or was it? Is this a digital books?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
It's a digital book so you can read it on
DC Universe Infinite, which is their their comic app.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, the digital app.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, so if you if you get a subscription, if
you get the just the free account, I think you
can read the first eight seven or eight for free,
and then if you get the paid account, you can read.
But it's going to be twenty six issues for this
season because they go in seasons. So it's a lot.
It's a it's a lot of comic.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
These things are roughly about eight to ten pages, I'd
say maybe a little bit more comparatively to a print comic.
But if you add up all those pages, it's the
longest continuous story I've ever told in comics, even longer.
We had seventeen issues of Blue Beetle. This is longer
than that.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
That's great, And give people the plot of and it's
sure first of all. Yeah, it's give the title first
of all here, I'll yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
So it's Aquaman Yoho, hold on to your hook. And
that's not a typo. It's because they're pirates. It's a
world where the DC Universe is known as the dcde
Space Sea. It's the big ocean that covers the entire planets,
so every every major location in the DC Universe, Gotham, Tamaran, Crypton,

(39:46):
whatever you've got is an island or a continent on
this enormous stretch of ocean, and so navigating it is
our aquaman, Jackson Hyde, who's the second or I guess
it's the third Aquaman after Tempest, but anyway, Jackson Hyde
is our auqua man and he's on this this pirate
ship with with Hiwaya, who's a recent character that's been
introduced to the Aquaman lore. And then Dolphin is there

(40:08):
as well. Love Dolphin. I was very excited to get
to write for Dolphin. And so the three of them
they're going on this epic quest to recover King Arthur's Hook,
and so that's the that's the big plot device they're
trying to get, is King Arthur's Hook, because you know,
we we're all in this, like just like the Lee
Kirby stuff. Uh. The Peter David has just completely transformed

(40:30):
Aquaman in our perception of Aquaman for the modern readers.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
And so we wanted to have that like little nod, right,
that's cool And also it's kind of a YA book,
would you say, right.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's younger skewing. It's a little
more for teens or thereabouts. If you if you like
kind of like shown in manga, if you like like
One Piece is obviously a big inspiration for the book.
But if you like other stuff like Dragon ball Z,
You're Outlast Star or any Potensi Moyo. There's a lot
of fun we kind of combine and we try to
make a fun book. The idea for these Go comics

(41:03):
because there's a whole line of them. There's a Wonder
Woman one, there's a there's a night Wing one that's
very popular. Nothing but Nightwing, Harley Quinn, whatever. Any character
you like probably has a DC GO book. But these
are weekly installments there. You get them on the app,
and they're not left to right page turned books. They're
designed to be scrolled on screen, scrolling it like you

(41:23):
would a web tune or even like you would an
article on your phone. Sure, and so the panels they
don't go left right, they just go down. And so
we have an advantage because its Aquaman. The goal visually
for these comics should be you're always pulling the reader's
eye down because you want them to keep scrolling. Well,
in Aquaman, they can jump off the ship and go
in the water, and so it's a natural, it's a trick.

(41:45):
We it's our secret weapons, Like how do we make
this visually interesting? They jump in the water and it's
like you know what I mean, they do some backflips,
or we come out. They break through them, they break
through the floor of the room, and like, it's so
fun to play after those moments because they're very unique
to the format in a way that you couldn't do
in print.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
No, and I appreciate that and that you know, so
once you figured that out, it must have been fun
to write to that kind of format versus like the
nine panel grit.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, I thought when I first realized we were
doing a scroll comic, because I did a couple of
them for Marvel already, Yes, I was. I was a
little like disheartened because I was like, uh, we lose
we lose the page turn reveals, we lose the double
page spreads, we lose some of the language of comics
that are so special to me. And in this one.

(42:37):
There are other ways. There are other opportunities, and I
think the biggest opportunity of all is that you can
just read it on your phone. You know what I mean.
You don't have to zoom in and pinch or whatever.
It's formatted perfectly for your device. I read them on
my iPad, but whatever you want to. Yeah, So they're
they're great. We've got a really a murderous row of artists.
We have Nicolo Alapi, who's another Italian artists. Actually he

(43:01):
has a web comics background. We have Andrew Drillan, who
I've worked with on We did a couple, we did
a Bunker short, and we've done some other various projects
here and there in the DC universe. He's like, he
has a fine arts background. It really shows in his work.
And then we've got Bradley Clayton, who is a superstar
comic artist kind of coming up. He had did some
Stranger Things comics this year and also did a book

(43:24):
with seen A Grayce last year West Hollywood Monster Squad.
That's kind of what it got them on DC's radar.
So it's interesting because we have like the web comics artist,
We've got like the fine artist, and then we've got
like the classic comic book artist in the cuber style.
And so it's like trying to write for those three strengths,
depending on what storyline I'm doing is a lot of

(43:45):
fun as well. It's like my favorite, my favorite comic
series of all time. It's probably fifty two. Just the
excitement of coming back every week and see what we'll
see with X.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
So I always dreamed of working on a weekly book.
But be careful what you wish for. It's not easy.
It is not easy to write a weekly comic.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
So assist and I'm going joshure is.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
It's for twenty six episodes. So the first twenty I
think have already come out, and we're on a winter
break until the beginning of January. Okay, I think so
on a Planet of the Apes foc day, go to
your local comic shop, order order some apes, and then
on the walk back you can read the latest Aquaman
on your phone because we come back I think around

(44:30):
that time. But so twenty have already come out. We're
gonna we're gonna land the ship in January, and then
we'll see what the future holds from there. But like
I said, you get to no one gets to do
twenty six issues of anything anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Absolutely, how many like will will it eventually be adapted
in a heart you know, a hard version.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
That's my hope. We haven't made any promises here or there.
That's really my hope. But I will say that maybe
more than some of the other DC GO books, because
some of them are Some of them read just like
panel sacked on each other, which I think is a
totally valid way to read it. Sure, but we do
the flow, you know what I mean. We make it
feel like one continuous read as much as we can,
and that's going to be harder to translate into print.

(45:15):
So I think truer. I think our strength really is
we're leaning into the format of the digital comic. Not
not to say that it can't be adapted. I'm just
saying I'm not smart enough to know how to do that.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
You know, Honestly, it's been really interesting watching the evolution
of the digital comic because again, I was, you know,
Ward Bullen was there when those first comics were coming,
and especially pre iPad. When you're reading surface was your iPhone,
and I would equate the screen to the size of
a baseball card. And just like you said, uh, not

(45:51):
only you know, double page spreads and that impact moment
that a traditional comic will have. No, it doesn't have that,
but it is interesting Scott McLeod's whole understanding comics and
talking about scrolling in that. Then it seemed like for
a while the digital comics got away from it and
they were swiping and you know, they would have the
layered images and stuff like you used to be a

(46:12):
gun and then you'd swipe and then all of a
sudden you'd see the gun fire. Things like that. Mark
Wade was doing it with Rell bet My Buddi's Allison
Baker and Chris Robertson with the Monkey Brain. You know. So, yeah,
it is. It's kind of cool that web comics and
digital comics are like, no, you know something, I think
the scroll is probably the best way.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, it's an interesting format and honestly, I've I've had fun,
a lot of fun writing for it. And Aquamanica, of
course naturally lends itself again to diving into the water,
jumping off a building, whatever you have. But it's a
cool book. You know, we've got our main cast and
then everything in the DC universe has been reimagined as pirates.
So you've got you've got Captain Harley Quinn and Lady Ivy,

(46:53):
or you've got the Superman on Metropolis Island, or we've
got Psycho Pirate who pops up? Of course, what's that
You're doing a pirate book. I was like, we gotta
do Psycho Pirate, like that's great. Of course, the dereliction
of duty not to include him, but we get we
get weird and specific with it. We just did. I
don't know how how deep your Aquaman lore goes talk to. Yeah,

(47:14):
we've got we've got quisp here, who's from Aquaman one.
It's kind of this mp water sprite, very much like
Aquaman's mixel pitlick. Yes, he plays a big role in
one of the episodes, but we're trying to do it,
you know, the self contained done in one and then
you know, you piece it all together and we're telling
one big epic.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
That's great. Man, Now is that plant like you said,
it's the d C. Yeah, so is that one of
the numbered earths of you know, I mean technically, I mean,
you know, it's great. It's great to give the Psycho
Pirate there from the pirate standpoint, but is he kind
of aware of the alternate universes?

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Like he's yeah, that's actually that actually is a plot
point of the Psycho Pirate one because I like. I
like the Psycho Pirate. That's like I remember, you know
what I mean? I love that. I love that guy.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
And so did you watch did you watch the animated
Crisis movies?

Speaker 3 (48:06):
I got to the there's three of them, right, I
think one I haven't. I'm not completely there yet. It's
greater today to see them do some of these characters
and animation for the first time.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Really well. I loved their two dimensional choices for those
three movies in particular, but also I appreciated the differences
in the story compared to the you know, the original
Crisis story, and it works. And yeah, man, I think
Psycho Pirate is one of the best things about those
three movies. I really do.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Oh yeah, he's great. We just did. We did Justice
League International, so the International League of Pirates. And one
of the strengths of our book is we know it,
we get to you know, we get bored. So we're like, well,
let's go, let's do the Justices leagu International. Let's do
the Titans, who we call the Titaneers. And so we
do the Pirate redesigns of all the characters, and so
we post them online usually the week of and that

(48:59):
gets them like some attention online, but it's like for
the Justice They International, We're like, okay, well, how do
you really break that team down to five or six members?
And our answer was, no, we're just gonna all of them.
We've got Crimson Fox, We've gotta We've got Oberon, We've
got you know, we designed Bradley and Andrew designed probably

(49:20):
twenty three characters just for the two part storyline.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
That's so great, Josh. Honestly, I'm really glad that they're
letting me play with as many toys as you want.
And do you know, is there any sort of overarching
attitude towards these digital books, because there is a lot
of freedom beyond the traditional Earth one depictions of these characters.
And I mean, I was even thinking reading these it

(49:46):
reminded me of those graphic novels of Ya adaptations of
Zatanna and Nightwing and things like that, that it kind
of had the same vibe. But as you say, too,
more of a digital comic with scrolling and but yeah,
like you know, you guys can do whatever you want
for the most part, have you had any No, We've got.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
We've got complete freedom. And you know what, I know
that there's a Superman with John Kent book right now
out as well. It's one of the more popular series.
And I know they they because it's Superman, they have
to hew a little closer to continuity in some ways. Okay,
but we're our own universe and so and also we're Aquaman,

(50:26):
so we can we can do whatever we want, you
know what I mean? Like are as long as we
as long as we don't make the Arthur fans too, man,
I think we're doing doing good and we we This
book is a love letter to the classic comics as well.
We have a big storyline coming up that's uh. We
just reintroduced Arthur into the narrative late in the game
and so we're gonna see what he's up to. But

(50:48):
just like we go, we have so much fun with it.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
I was.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
I've been digging into a lot of the Silver Age
Aquamant stuff for inspiration because those comments are just full
of ideas and that's something I wanted. I wanted just
to have to the book is like you never know
what's gonna happen next.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
That's excellent, man. I Uh, I've been buying a few
Silver Age Aquamans with those great Nick Cardy and oh man, Yeah,
that's that's some really great stuff. Or there was one
where like Aquaman dies and I'm sure you've seen it
where he's on the slab and he's being carried by Batman, Superman, Hawkman,
and I forget who the fourth guy is, but Mara

(51:24):
and and Wonder Woman are like, he's Wonder Roman's consoling
Mara in the background. I think it was Metamorpha, and
you know the of course other than you know, Superman
doesn't need the the oxygen tank, but the others have him.
They have the little bubble and everything. Yeah, I I
I I always loved And also I was a big
Jim and Parow Mike Fleischer Adventure comics seventies Aquaman reader.

(51:47):
Did you read any of those?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Oh yeah, oh gosh, where's my every I mean literally
everything from Ramona freedo In to Butch guys to Yes,
I mean literally everything about Alex Ross. So the whole
thing is a love letter to the Aquaman mythos we
tempest has a big role in the story. We even
Tula shows up and has stuff to do. The Aquaman

(52:09):
fans are telling me, they're like, this is the most
Toola has ever had to do, and I'm like, that's
what we did right by her, you know, that's what
you want to hear, is like this is for the
real ones.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
That's excellent. Man. I was gonna ask, you know, the
what kind of connection you're having with the community and stuff.
How do you communicate with them? You know?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
I when we post the new designs every week or
whenever we have the new pirate designs, usually we'll get
picked up by some of the Aquaman fan sites and
they've been really great about reaching out personally and just
telling saying nice things about the book Coreat And I know,
I you know our books about Jackson, but you know,
I know the art and so it takes a little

(52:48):
winning over for the Aquaman fans. But I think once
they saw the love that we're putting into it and
how we have so much respect for the Aquaman mythos
and for Arthur in particular, I think it's been It's
it's been great, honestly.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Way would you never know, would that second Aquaman ever
show up? I don't even remember, if you know, he
disappeared once they went back to Arthur and everything back
in Jeff John's day. But that previous uh, interpretation of Aquaman.
I guess he was an Arthur Curry. You'll probably remember
better than me.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Oh gosh uh, I will say I'm very much a
Mark Wade. Everything counts. But kind of mentality about this
stuff for our book, we don't ignowl. We don't really
have time to go through that, but maybe never say never.
There's a lot of stuff I want to go. I
want to go to Zebel. That's my big thing. We
don't have enough room.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Remind me of Zeel.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
It's the dimension that the Mara comes from.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Okay, I was going to say, yeah, yeah, we see.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
It sometimes, but we'll see it forget. Given that it's
such a huge part of the aquaet mythos, We're never there,
and so I'm like, why are we? You're telling me
there's a whole under another undersea kingdom that like we
don't have act we never go to. Like, that's what
I want to learn more about. So if we do
Theson two, knock on wood, a lot of Mara stuff,
a lot of Zebel stuff. I want to get into

(54:07):
some of this the Aquaman war that hasn't been expanded on.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
That sounds great. Have you had a chance to talk
to Jeremy and all Adams was doing the regular Aquaman book.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
It's funny because I know Jeremy and he's doing his
Aquaman book and his I think, had a recent issue
with pirates in it as well, and I was like, Oh,
we're getting a little too are close to each other,
but it's it's a it's an Aquaman book. Of course
they're going to be c pirates. Yeah, so we're our
own flavor. I'm not worried about getting too close to

(54:37):
what they're doing. But I know that there's like a
lot of Aquaman stuff happening right now with DC KO,
and I think they're really prime in that gesture for
a big moment.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
You know. Honestly, I read that KO issue of Aquaman
facing off with Hawkman, and Jeremy wrote it was great,
and again that's I'm so happy. And honestly, I think
a lot of these second tier heroes they have great
stories in them, they just got to find the right creators.
And you know, based on when I read of your
run and everything telling me in this thing no again,

(55:08):
you and Jeremy, I think are two of the right
guys to be bringing Aquaman and man, I gotta tell you,
and I'm glad you're getting opportunities to a marvel. But
you know, d C right now, I gotta say, they're
they're killing it, and a lot of off beyond the
I mean, I'm an Earth one DC guy and always
was the Absolute Universe is interesting. What you're doing with

(55:30):
d C is interesting, and yeah, I think, uh, there's
a lot of cool ideas happening with the characters. They're
playing with them in different ways.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yeah, I think right now. And it kind of it
always goes back and forth, right sure, but I feel
like DC is coming at it with like, let's see
what sticks. That's especially true of the DC GO books.
You know, they did they brought Warlord back for the
DC GO books, you know what I mean. It's like
what like and then they're willing to take that chance,
right because like, you never know what's going to take off,

(55:58):
And these these GO books are for kind of a
younger reading audience, ones who are familiar with the format
from web tunes or tapas or whatever it is. And
so like there's a cooking book called Taste of Justice.
There's a Wonder Woman book that's more like Babysitters Club,
but it's wonder Woman's the baby, and so there's all
sorts of crazy concepts and even in the print you're
seeing now they's had oh gosh, what is it beneath

(56:22):
the trees where nobody sees that. They're folding that into
d C KO like insane, you're happening right now. I
like that. That's the fun of it is like that again,
you never know what's going to happen next.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
No, I Greg Rucky used to tell me Marvel and
DC they're kind of like the tortoise and the hair,
and DC's the tortoise and all of a sudden, you know,
the hair's zipping along and all of a sudden it's like, well,
he's not behind me in my wait a minute, he's
ahead of me. What hell's going on? And again, no
disrespect to Marvel. I love my Marvel stuff. Again, we
spend a good half hours so talking about FF charm
and the apes and everything. But yeah, I gotta say

(56:57):
right now, there's there's a lot of good invention going
on at DC, and it's I'm glad it's clicking, and
I'm glad people are having as much fun. And really
I was worried about KO. I really was. I'm like,
because they you might remember they did something similar in
the aughts and I like there, like it maybe it
was during Countdown or something, but I remember like, oh yeah,

(57:20):
they were like in arenas and it might have even
been called Arena and it was like you know, Dark
Knight Batman versus Bad Blood, you know, Vampire Batman or whatever.
And it's like and it was fun from an art standpoint,
but the stories just weren't there. And like I said, man,
I read Jeremy. I mean, I'm enjoying the Kao books anyway,
but Jeremy's Achaman Hawkman face off really interesting really, and

(57:42):
again for.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Him, I think those are too great character for him
to write. And so yeah, those are great. And also,
like if you, I don't know if you watched a
lot of anime, but obviously like fighting anime, fighting tournaments
is such a it's such a trope of the genre. Yeah,
and I think it's interesting to put that kind of
trope against the DC heroes, and it's like it just

(58:03):
goes back to Constants of Champions, right, like, yes, we've
been doing this forever. It's just interesting that we have
to see what this generation looks like.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Well, and again, and no disrespect to anime, but it
just feels like there is more story beyond the fighting
scenes and everything. And that's that's what really. I mean, God,
the first two issues at d C k O, I
really had to sit and like, all right, what's happening here?
You know, I need to pay attention what that was
happening here is? And just okay, here we go and

(58:32):
I and I'm intrigued by this whole idea of building
a champion to face dark side and everything. I think
that's yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
No one, no one tells me anything, but I I
feel like this is the jumping off point for something
even bigger. I don't know what that is, but I'm
I'll be reading it for sure.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
No, it's very and again, no disrespect to Marvel. I
like One World under Doom. I like a lot of
the Marvel books right now. But yeah, I got to
say that they're beyond I mean, hey, I'm am eating
potatoes comic book guy. But when something you know off
the wall or you know, from the left of center
suddenly comes out, it's like, oh, that's interesting, all right,

(59:10):
And again, I think you're right. The Goat books represent
that as well. So that's neat. Let's talk Blue Beetle
before we wrap up. Yeah, so that was the last
time you and I talked. We talked about your run
on him and everything, and I was very pleasing. We're
bringing back Dan Garrett and everybody you put in the
book and everything. So yeah, looking back, how was the experience? Oh?
It was.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
It was a dream come true. You, I will say,
you never think you're gonna fall in love again. After
after Bluebido, I was like, I think I think that was.
I think I've spent. But now I got an aquaman
here and I've got doctor's hands on the other hand,
and I'm I'm doing just fine. But I love, I
loved writing I may I'm I'm begging them for the

(59:51):
opportunity to get back to the character. But you know,
the things you thinks coming go. But I love I
loved the original everything from Blue. I love the the
Dan Garrett stuff, I love the Steve Didko stuff, I
love the eighties, the Lenoine stuff. I love all of it.
And so like to be able to give get a
little bit of space to like smush it together and

(01:00:13):
show what my corner of the Blue Beetle universe looks
like was so cool. And we're lucky that the movie
came out around the time that I was doing it,
so we got that, we got that boost of interest
and attention that maybe, you know, not an A list
character wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Wasn't the and and I'm sorry, man, I apologize. I'm
sure a million comics in a couple of movies since
But wasn't your antagonist that the same character as in
the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Yeah, we folded in ted ted Cord's evil sister Victoria
into the series. I have I have the only piece
of Victoria Chord merchandise. Oh yeah, so it's this little,
this whole thing. So here's my theory. So in movie,
so it's just a little I don't know what you
put you is it not a little? It's not a funk.

(01:01:05):
It's something like a funk go whatever that is. But
she has blonde hair, and in the movie Susan Sarandon
has red hair. I think I think my theory is
this toy was for when Susan Sharon Stone was cast
in the role, because they always have to be made
so far in advance.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Sure, maybe it's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Been looking around. This is the only Victoria Chord toy
that came out around the movie. So I had to
I had to buy it on eBay. I spent more money.
I spend more money from my comics, on toys, on
original art, from issues I worked on. It's just that's
the cave.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
That's great, man. What's your what's your favorite? Do you
have a vintage toy that you absolutely love or even
one you know, not only from your own childhood.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
But I was actually I was gonna buy some Planet
of Ego figures. Actually, I think when I when I
wrap up the series, and I like to have a
little little thing here and there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Something.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
I just got more resents from McFarlane. It's a it's
a Quist statue of the fifth dimensional if we're talking
about yes, and so that came with one of the
the Aquaman figures that they just did, and so I
I just bought. I don't I don't have a lot
of room for statues right now, but I was like,
I need the Quisp. So I had to buy him

(01:02:20):
separately on on a disreputable website.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Oh my, you know already art bounces are mixed custom egos.
So I was totally in with the entire Migo community.
He doesn't have a three D printer, but he he
knows guys that do. And I don't know how deep
you get into the the hobby. Ibrahim Ustafa also makes
He makes custom action figures. They're bigger than migos. But

(01:02:47):
I am really fascinated by the whole migo culture and
you know, the old stuff. But yeah, I've got like
already pointed me to some of those websites and you
can buy bodies and things and and you know, and
also private collectors will three D print and sculpt heads
like I saw like a Buster Crab Flash Gordon head,

(01:03:11):
you know that kind of thing. And christ And literally
like already has Christopher Reeves Superman heads and stuff and
they look.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Like what I really want. The thing I really want
from Apes is I don't think they ever made it,
but I want a Lawgiver statue for my desk. I
want like it could be I want the either I
wanted to have, like the bloody eyes from from Beneath
from Benieva or the single tier or whatever, you know.
I want something really stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Well that's Caesar. Caesar's the crying statue.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Oh you're right, Yeah, you're right. I got You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
What I love also about battle, I'm an old movie freak.
And John John Houston, the great uh director, is the
lawgiver that that tells the prophecy or the you know,
the the scrolls of of Caesar's advent, and so it
was foretold that Caesar would lead his people. And it's
just got that wonderful voice that John Houston always sid

(01:04:03):
and the man is just in the oranguting makeup and
stuff him. And lou Eyris was the guy in charge
of all the weapons. And he's an old character director.
He was Doctor Kildare back in the forest.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah, that's so funny. Was that the catchphrase?

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yes, calling Doc? And of course Richard Chamberlin played him
in the early sixties in a great TV show.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
These are I mean, these are great characters. I think
I think Zayas in particular, he's the one that really
I think Saya's is one of the most complex and
interesting villains in sci fi.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Well, and that's the opportunity I think you have with
this story because he knows the secrets of the Forbidden Zone,
and he knows the the history of man, and but
it is his job to maintain the order which is
keeping the knowledge from his people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Yeah, and he's fascinating. He's such a fanatic about it too,
you know what I mean. Like he's he's very really
he's very smart. He's incredibly intelligent, very reasonable, but he's
willing to do the dark things in order to maintain
this the illusion of ape society of the order.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Yeah, no, I agree. And Mary Seven's my god, what
what are a performance in the two movies? I mean, really,
and really, I'll say, fans, we're very fortunate to get
these these great actors of that caliber alongside all the
young people in the newbies. And and you know, I'll
be honest, man, I love John Chambers makeup, the original makeup.

(01:05:34):
I mean that was the thing. Like Burton was really like, oh,
you know, our makeups more superior. It's like, yeah, maybe,
but your story isn't.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
At least when they do the full makeup in the
classic movies, it looks great. But when they do the
rubber eight mask in the background, you're like, yeah, this
movie doesn't need to be remastered. Maybe because you can
see the clothes tags.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Oh yeah, that's no, that's a really good point. Absolutely,
that's so funny, you know, for Halloween. Gabe Hartman and
I and company we do a movie podcast, and we
did this early seventies monster movie Gargoyles that was a
TV movie, and one of the younger coasts like, well
you could see the zipper on the back, and I'm like, yeah,

(01:06:15):
but you gotta understand this was made when you know,
I had one of those terrible Panasonic nineteen seventies televisions
that didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Have HLS able to see that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
No, absolutely not, man, And I think that's why some
of these things and the special effects of the seventies
and eighties, even the nineties, they're kind of afraid of
putting them on HD because, yeah, you're going to see
every flaw that you could trick away with a less
resolute TV.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
So they did this with the Star Trek X generation.
There was a problem with some of those remasters because
you could see the painters tape and things that they
were doing to keep down the and it's like, oh,
they did those mad Men. Did you see that about
the mad Men getting upscale? So they remaster it. It's
a similar problem they they've pulled from the original masters. However,

(01:07:02):
some of these shots were had they paint out elements
that are that it would be that wouldn't belong in
that era of the sixties, right, and so they painted
out but when they pull from the Masters, the special
effect shots aren't included, and so you'll see like a
car that's like, oh, that car should not be there,
like it immediately catches your eye. But they say they're
fixing it. It just came out last week. It's on streaming,

(01:07:24):
so maybe hold tight or by the DVDs or something.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Is it on a MC plus. Where's it streaming?

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
It's on it. It just got an HBO Max. I
think as well, oh it's not Max.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Great.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah, I love that show. I think it's one. I
think that's probably the best show in the past ten
twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
No, I completely agree, it's certainly one of them. And yeah,
what a cast. Absolutely and when great performance is great, right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
And there's a great there's a great moment in Madman
where Don's having a bad day and he takes his
kid to watch Planet of the Apes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Yes he does, Yes, he does. Well if for a
modern day he would go buy a copy of Planet
of the Apes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Absolutely mental breakdown and reading Planet of the Apes versus
Fantastic Four.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
So again final cut off everybody January fifth, and in
the meantime too uh catch up on Aquaman yo ho
ho u yo ho.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Hold on to your took your hold.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
On your hook? Yes, yo ho, hold on to your hook.
Absolutely very I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Take credit for that title. I will say that the
pun the pun masters at DC, they always they always
one up themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
All those anthology books to prove Valentine's Day or summer again.
I I really they're fun, They're inventive. So hats off,
well done and wain to go. Dude, I'm really glad
that the run continues again. I enjoyed your Blue Beetle run,
and these are two great stories here. Let's see a
final comment. Don lends the ladies and gentlemen. Josh seems

(01:08:47):
as big a fan as he is, a top flight
addition to Fantastic four Planet and Aquaman history.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
I appreciate that. I I you know I I live
in the long boxes too, so I love I love
this classic stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
It shows, Josh, and you're doing all of a job.
Keep up the great war continued success. Come back when
you have something new and well further the conversation. But yeah,
thanks a lot for playing in I men, everybody, thanks
for watching and listening. Thursday's gonna be very busy. I'm
doing a double feature Art and Franco and I will
do our Ayah Holiday special. We'll be talking about some

(01:09:25):
of our favorite Christmas memories and various things, and then
later a scene missing episode with Gabe Hardman. We're going
to be exploring the film and television work of burl Ives. Yes,
the Snowman form Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, but Academy
Award winner for a fantastic Western that you can watch
on too be called The Big Country with Gregory Peck
among others. Charlton Heston also in that movie, and a

(01:09:47):
young Chuck Conners great movie Grey Western, and a few
other things including his television show The bold Ones where
it was one of those NBC wheels like the Mystery
Movie with Colone Bowe and macmillan and wife of McLeod.
And in this one he was it was part of
a lawyer's show and he was the senior lawyer Burro Lives.
So it's gonna be really fun talking about Burrowlive's career.

(01:10:09):
On seeing Missing your so two shows tomorrow night. You're
around Word Balloon Live join us. Then until next time, everybody,
stay safe, stay happy, stay healthy,