September 29, 2025 • 35 mins
From February 2013, visionary animator Ralph Bakshi joined me to discuss his then-new project Last Days of Coney Island, now streaming on YouTube and Vimeo. The series marked Bakshi’s return to gritty 1960s New York, promising raw stories of police corruption, gangs, prostitution, and the decade’s disillusionment following the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy.
Bakshi also teased potential new sequences for cult favorites like Wizards, Coonskin, and Heavy Traffic, including a long-imagined Wizards scene where the pacifist hero Peace halts a WWII German-style train full of captives. Bakshi shared candid updates on the rumored live-action remake of his 1983 fantasy Fire and Ice, co-created with Frank Frazetta. According to Bakshi, director Robert Rodriguez was eyeing a Sin City-style adaptation, aiming to begin shooting after wrapping Sin City 2.
Along the way, Bakshi reflected on his groundbreaking career, from his early years at TerryToons to his enduring influence on animation. This conversation captures Bakshi at his fiery best—unfiltered, defiant, and still pushing boundaries.
Bakshi also teased potential new sequences for cult favorites like Wizards, Coonskin, and Heavy Traffic, including a long-imagined Wizards scene where the pacifist hero Peace halts a WWII German-style train full of captives. Bakshi shared candid updates on the rumored live-action remake of his 1983 fantasy Fire and Ice, co-created with Frank Frazetta. According to Bakshi, director Robert Rodriguez was eyeing a Sin City-style adaptation, aiming to begin shooting after wrapping Sin City 2.
Along the way, Bakshi reflected on his groundbreaking career, from his early years at TerryToons to his enduring influence on animation. This conversation captures Bakshi at his fiery best—unfiltered, defiant, and still pushing boundaries.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, welcome back time again for Word Balloon the
Comic book Conversation show John Santras. Here a little deviation
from comics. I'm gonna be talking to an animation master,
Ralph Bakshi.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He of sixty seven Spider Man, Saturday Morning Cartoons. He
of Terry Toons and the Adventures of Mighty Mouse and
Deputy Dog Fritz the Cat, so many great movies, wizards.
When I spoke to him in twenty thirteen, he was
raising funds for the Last Days of Cony Island, which
he's finished and is available on YouTube and Vimeo as well,
(00:34):
and of course at Ralph's website ralph baksheet dot com.
I absolutely recommend you checking it out. This man was
always a maverick, and especially in a movie animation once
he got the opportunity to start making them. Of course,
he did the original animation adaptation of Lord of the
Rings as well, and just an amazing career, an amazing
(00:56):
filmmaker and a guy that took no crap, and you
will hear that in this discussion. And also, man, I'll
tell you this is twenty thirteen so prescient about where
movie studios are, especially when it comes to animation. And
again you'll forgive the old man here. I'm cool with
you know, animation for kids, and that's great, and you know,
(01:18):
let them watch their stuff just like we watched our
stuff and everything, but all the merchandising, and we had
merchandising when we were kids. Give me a break, you know,
from serial premiums to you know, every year at Christmas,
come on, you gotta have that toy that's tied to
that TV show, movies from Migos and Star Wars, et cetera. Anyway,
(01:39):
the point is this guy knew what he was talking
about and how sadly today's movie business is. Even back
in twenty thirteen, it really hasn't changed much. But really
great conversation and it was really an honor to have
this opportunity to talk to him. Ralph Bakshi from twenty
thirteen talking about the last days of the Island, a
(02:00):
few other lost classics, and more on today's word Balloon.
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Speaker 2 (03:20):
All Right, let's get into this now. From February of
twenty thirteen, my conversation with Ralph Bakshi, starting off with
his last Exit to Cony Island, which you can find
on YouTube these days, and I urge you to do
that because this is the kind of experimental animation that
made him famous. And you know, there's very few examples
of this. I mean, you got Ralph, you got Bill Plimpton.
(03:43):
How many guys are really out there? And I'm talking
about the old gard and I'm sure there's a lot
of new stuff that's being created, but these are the
masters that have proven themselves time and time again. Let's
talk to Ralph Bakshi on today's word Balloon. I'm a
longtime fan, ser and it's a pleasure to speak to you,
and I thank you for doing this interviews.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
No problem.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I'm psyched for the new movie. I'm thrilled that you're
you're doing this and them intrigued that you're using Kickstarter
to fund Last Days of Coney Island. What can you
tell me? Why? Why the why the crowdfunding through kickstarts?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, you know, well it's an easy question to answer.
First of all, the I'm not looking to do anything
except animation, and I'm looking, you know, I'm not. I
don't have any dreams of you know, used merchandising schemes
or major relief from from theaters anymore. In other words,
I decided, like I've always enjoyed to do the films
(04:37):
that I wanted to do. And I decided, I'm going
to try to make movies and release them on the net,
meaning Mike Blog or the Backship channel which were creating,
or on YouTube. You know that if I could raise
money to do this, that I could be creatively free
(04:58):
and it would be good for animation. This would be
no restrictions, just like your black here, and there would
be no fighting with studios who tear up by films
and ripping the shreds. You know. I did take Last
Days a couple of years ago, Codey Island the studios
and they said it wasn't merchandizable. Well times it wasn't. No,
(05:20):
it's not sure, but I said, look, I don't need
a lot of money, and I wasn't the merchandiz it.
You know, I'm looking to do a good movie and
I don't mind as millions of people come to a
theater and you know, and make you guys rich, and
I don't mind driving an all Ferrari around me. I
have nothing against money if it comes the right way.
(05:40):
I just don't want to exactly do what you're doing,
which is, you know, kind of merchandizable stuff only. So
I took up back home, and then I realized that
the watching the kickstarted thing that that this might be
a way, and I'm trying to prove it. If it is,
ab do all my animation for the net and maybe
(06:05):
somehow I'll find a way to make a profit so
I can make it myself what I'm going to kickstarter.
So that's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, I understand and I can appreciate that. It just
it really does blow my mind given your body of
work and the media outlets that are there that some
HBO or Showtime. I mean, I understand maybe from a
major film company's perspective, and as you say, they're looking
for merchandising, but it just seems like you've always had
(06:36):
this great edgy voice that you know, people respond to
when they when they see your movies. But it shocks
me that there were no TV outlets that that might
be interested in being in the raft up actually business.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Well, you know you brought them an interesting the question.
I didn't even think about it. You know, nobody calls anybody,
you know, everyone waits. Everyone waits for some poor fil
make it to come to the door so they could
take as much as they could from them, because if
they go, they call a filmmaker, then the negotiations are
(07:08):
on the filmmaker side. I guess I'm not sure what
I'm saying is of HBO and Showtime in any one
of those places could have had this. They still might.
In other words, you know, once they see it and
I make it, if I'm lucky enough to get the money,
it doesn't mean that they won't call. Or I could
(07:29):
send them deim to say, here it is. You know,
it would be easier for me to do it. In
other words, what's great about this? Because you know what
I mean? You know I did an HBO animated series
called Spicy City. Well, if you think they didn't interfere,
you know, if you think, you know they live up,
they live up to everything they say. You know, they're
(07:51):
all load for you. You know it's far. You know
what they plan is a certain outrageousness. It's all planned
you know, it's still very much like, you know, we're cool.
If they're going to figure out how to be cool,
you know, we just can't do. So what I'm saying,
as one of the other executives running around, you don't
(08:13):
know what the fuck is going to come out of
their mouth at any given point. So if I do
this and they like what they're looking at, I love
to do a longer version on HBO. You know, I
wasn't even considering of the Spicy City. Let me take
you play around Spicy City. Okay, Rocky, So I sell
Spicy City to HBO, and I fell it with me
(08:35):
wanting to hire unknown writers from New York because I
was living in New York at the time, Okay, okay.
And I wanted to hire different nationalities, you know, Chinese
and Korea. You know, I wanted to get another perspective,
like I felt tired of my own perspectives and if
Hollywood perspective, Hollywood writers, you know. And I had a
(09:00):
bunch of five riders. You know, what was the one
that had just gotten out of prison, you know, and
it was clean, he was clean, but you know, Puerto
Rican kid, and they all were raw and intelligent and
they wrote poetry all flow and they went to Poetryno's
Slam Bang Poetry things in Manhattan. They were great, great guys,
(09:23):
and I was paying in fifteen hundred of script. They
were crying. I mean, these guys never made more than
an hundred bucks night than never wrote Sure, and we
had a hit show. We had the highest rating in
that at our time. Flat okay the first season. Then
HBO gives me a call time in the second season
(09:44):
and they say, this is the twoth story. The guy
that did that is gone since he ran HBO. At
that point they threw him out all break crypt or
break okay. That was he captured me. Chris Aubert in
charge of the whole thing, and he said, you know,
we want to use LA riders. You know what, we
(10:06):
want to use LA riders. If they wait a minute,
you guys just get you a hit show. You're great.
Why LA writers, what are they gonna do? Why would
I need them? And what do I tell these guys
the thanks for the hit show? Goodbye? It would be
as I quit. And that's why spys is anyone else
(10:26):
to here? See I walked out. What I'm saying is
why you know why they wanted La Riders because they
had a hit show and now they wanted to control it.
They wanted to they wanted to make sure it was
taken out of my hands. In other words, with my rioters,
I controlled the show. With their riders. That they're going
to hire those riders. They control the writers. So they
(10:49):
want they had a hit show and they wanted to continue.
They want to take it over. And that that was that.
You know, most I can tell you most directed in
my position, I would have gone with them because there's
a lot of money involved potentially, but I didn't. There's
no way I can know those guys and say guess what, guys, uh,
(11:12):
thank you. But you know, to get them to write
and to get their hopes up, you're one of the
things about working with artists is like you know, you
want them to feel great, and you want them. The
better they feel, the better the work is sure, you
know what I'm saying. So I was furious, I don't
know more anger in my home life. It's one thing
(11:34):
to blow something. And they said, look, we changed the
writings because another thing has the best ratings that ever
had in that time slot, and want to change the writings.
They got you there. How sick is that the once
it made it because the shows read. The other reason
the show existed was because of its etchiness. You know,
it's like a homosexuals writing but homosexual the Philippine guy,
(11:59):
a guy jails for pat Puerto Rican. I mean that
guy wrote the hands. The guy had the hand. It
was cut off a guy and was running around killing people.
I mean this they had a whole wasn't look on
what American horrors. They got some different origens. I thought
that in itself was a brilliant idea. So when you say,
(12:19):
HBO in these places, why I go to Kickstart, I
don't know. You know, I've had two experiences with them.
They're working last day. I'd love for them to do that.
They want to do what I just did it if
I managed to make it our kickstarta they want to
do what I'm doing on Kickstart. To find here. What
I'm doing on Kickstarter is the pilot in a sense,
(12:42):
you know, So that's the pilot for it. And I
mean the second short that I would do with a
Kickstarter is a Wizard too. There was a secrets cut
out of Wizard one. You know, I've always wanted to
we didn't have the money to finish. I made the
picture and I had to let it go. But was okay,
was exactly part of the story. I could afford the
(13:03):
extra lens, you know what I'm saying. So it was
a very heavy scene. It was this railroad distance box
car that was taking the elves. You know, there's a
little about Nazis with it, taking the elves locked up
to a concentration camp, you know, which you happened to
the Jews in World War Two and I certainly even
(13:24):
discussing that and Wizards and all these elder a box
cars and on top of the box cars, you know,
were those Green soldiers the Nazis, the Black Wolf projects
and he stacked the back of car to free the elves.
And it's an incredible action. Secrets of killing all those passwids,
you know, as the train roars along over precipices and
(13:45):
stuff and over bridges, you know, and it's a violent scene,
and of course he manages to stop the train and
three the elves. I want to do that secret so
after last days, I would do that for Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's fantastic and I and I got to tell you, sir, Wizards,
was the first of your films that I saw, and
it blew my mind. And that's really exciting to hear
that a new sequence like that, you know, is something
that you would want to fund it and do. I
think that's fantastic and it's interesting. Wouldn't it seem And
forgive me for armchair quarterbacking you, but wouldn't it seem
(14:23):
like that might be the better one to start with
given the cult popularity of Wizards. I'm thrilled that you're
doing something new, and I'm always excited when you have
something new out there. So Last Days the Cody Island
is exciting in itself, but it just seems like to
get the ball rolling, maybe Wizards an extra I'm not.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I have my own shrewdness for brewness. You know. I
take a chance. Now you're going to announce Wizards too,
and I in the Kicks out of film allude to it.
I show peace riding around. What I'm hoping is, you know,
I've done Wizards. You know I'm not great on sequels,
(15:03):
but I'd like to do this with the fans. You know, Okay,
I've done Wizards. I love Teeth, but for me to
stay fresh, I've got to see what I got left
on these characters. So motherfucker, if you want to see
Wizards too, get last Day's going you see. So in
a way, I'm saying, look, I this is for me,
Last Days Wizards is for you. You know what I'm saying.
(15:27):
So I do That's what I'm doing. Number three, I
would do Kuskin.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Too, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So that's the announcement. That's my plan, and that's what
I'm trying to do. And then heavy traffic, And what
I'm saying is I could continue to do more with
each one of these films and release him on the net.
So maybe I could start a business on the net.
Maybe just making them is enough. You know, I'm seventy
(15:54):
four just making them and work with a bunch of
talents small, you know, whatever you want to do, dude,
you know what you know? How great that is? I mean,
do you know how anazing that? How can fifty bucks
for one hundred bucks to direct the film? I'll make
it more, Sally, could you imagine the joy and working
with towned people and whatever we want. I don't know
(16:15):
what drives these other guys, you know, these other artists
and animators. You know, I have no idea why you'd
sit there doing the same stuff over and over and over.
Agains it's for a big salary. If I could do this,
I need the happiest man in the world. Certainly, it
would be nice to go out and do a billion
dollar grossing film, if it's the film I want. I
(16:36):
get nothing against taking my hand and his fortunes, and
I've got nothing against buying an old Ferrari or something
and driving around America in it. You know, I won't
sell out together. I think it's a difference. But could
you imagine just as an artist, and that's all I am.
So it's a win win situation. But you could tell
(16:58):
those people they want to see Wizards, they better get
Left Day funded. I understand, I'm Brooklyn. Then yeah, that's great.
That's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, I think that's great, And it's really fantastic to
see that. You you get what the opportunity to make
this stuff for the Internet is, and it seems like
it's great to hear that from someone like yourself that
you know, has has had big time films and stuff,
and you get the like you say, I mean, you
stay true to your vision and you can make it. Uh,
(17:35):
the satisfaction of the artist at this point of making
this new stuff. No, I think that's wonderful about that.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I've always been I've always said as an artist, car
that's why I made these films because I wasn't gonna
you know, it always was that for me. I can
sell films today if I sell out and pick up
and you have to direct under their movies. Really, were
you crazy? I said what I'm saying, Well, that's what
I'm talking about, Uh, the joy being an animator. We're
(18:02):
let me tell you something off the record.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, okay, all right, we won't put this on by okay,
but what.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
You can you think about it? Yeah, you can put
it on. Look, let me tell you something. Okay. The
older you get, I don't get too more of it.
But you know, the older you get, the more you
realize it's a one way ticket in this life. We
leave the one my ticket. What I'm getting out of
this alive, which is not And it doesn't matter how
much we die with financially, you've got to do something
(18:29):
you really love on the way or the whole thing's
going to waste the time. We're all going down the
same roads, you know, sooner or later, and the way
the world looks go even be sooner. That's all it's about, guys.
I can't make these decisions thinking they're gonna somehow. I'm
not safe this issue. They're gonna live forever, and you
can sell out their whole lives and be miserable but
(18:51):
make a lot of money, you know. Okay, that's what
you want to do, but doesn't make you happy. We
got one way on this road. It's a one way road. Now.
That's the best advice I can get to anyone listening
out there. Think about that. They can't hide from the truth.
Everyone hides from the truth in the reality. We're out
(19:12):
of here with gone finished good.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I'm with you now. I'm back to last days of
Coney Island. As you say, this is kind of a
pilot episode. So are you thinking? And this is before
the kickstarter is out so you might addressed us in
the video, But I'm going to ask you ten minutes,
twenty minutes, how long do you think it'll u I see.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I see how much bread we get. Yes, if you're
getting enough money, I'll do the whole fucking thing for
an hour. Yes, what comes in so it's taught me
to say.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Is your background when you first got into animation, this was,
you know, the fifties and Tarry Tunes. Are there tricks
that you learned as far as maybe and and and
forgive me, because I saw lots of this stuff on television,
and I can't remember how much of it was produce
for the theaters and how much of it was produced
for television. But I know you also did your body
(20:05):
of work in limited animation in the sixties as well.
Are those tricks and an ability to do that kind
of limited animation? Do you apply any of that kind.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Of That's a very good question, Okay. Full animation is
what I is what I try to do and do,
and I've always done what Terry Tunes taught me, you know,
is production tricks, in other words, how the stuff goes
through the house and how you finish it. I use
(20:37):
every trick in the book. I'm magical, and there are
millions of them. Most guys don't to keep the course down,
for example, Wizards, okay and Fritz. We could not afford
pencil tests. You know what pencil tests are, right, I do, yes, sir,
we cannot afford pencil tests. Okay, I don't I want
that pencil test. That's that a trick. That's a production decision.
(21:01):
And my animated for high. What both the animators are
high at Virgil Raws. You know, all those great short
animators with fifty years experience in the business. I wasn't concerned.
They've got so many pencil tests at this stage of
their lives. Although they're good, and if the scene's not
exactly perfect, I'll still put it in. That's a trick.
(21:22):
I mean, if you're doing I've seen guys got out
of business trying to make that scene the most perfect
scene in the world. And you know why they untill
they cost them a fortune, and you know why they
do it. But they're not saying anything. You see, if
you're saying something, the animation could be a little crude,
a little sloppy. If you're not saying anything, you've gotta
(21:45):
be good to say. So you're looking at it on
the screen, it's good animation. If it's not good yet,
you're not saying anything. Who needs you? So? One other
thing is they think get terrified at putting anything on
the screen that's not what they call a perfect No.
I say, guys, let's all get to this. Let's all
do the best we could. I want full animation, that's quality,
(22:09):
but I'm not gonna shoot it. You make a mistake.
So in the production tricks that I learned, are you
never trick in the book to keep the cause down?
And there are a million of them, so that that's
my technique.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Okay, but it's all you Well, I'm sorry, no, no, finish.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Well, I'm not going to kill an animator if he
makes a mistake and I put it up to the bed.
Look guy, that could have been better, but so what
you know matter? Yeah? What's his name? And just beaten
a ship out of idol? Who cares if the it's
not perfect? We know he's beaten her up, you know,
and that myself is nuts, you know. So those are
the kind of decisions I make as a director. If
(22:51):
I working for Disney, would have to be perfect because
I'm not doing anything except the fairy desk, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah? Yeah, Well how about the tools today? Do you
you know? I mean, are you do you ever try
and draw on a on a tablet with a stylist?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Of course I had that the film I put together
on Kick the computer and the program so much you
could do with the computer is mind boggling. It allows,
you know, everything I did on Traffic and Wisden from
everything I got in the box in my living room
on my computer at one tenth the cost. So the
(23:28):
entire back end production is now virtually nothing. The feees
I can pull more into the animation. I hire Young Animates.
Colleen Cox is a girl who lives in Singapore for
two years self toward animator. She did the first animation
on the Kickstarter film of the New Characters. Right she works,
(23:50):
I say dead ahead on Awaken tablets. Wonderful work. I
have nothing against the new techniques. I draw, you know,
pencil and paper and thanks, and I scan it to
these different various people and they go to work with
it on their computers. So I'm pretty much do it
my way. But my animes and stuff, they're all on
(24:12):
those programs and that's what I want. But I'm not animating,
so you know it's their at their job.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Understood, you know, understood.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But I love I love the computer. It's allowed me
to do this. I don't have to leave my house
and I could do these shorts. If I left my house,
my wife would shoot me. Because she doesn't even want
me to go back to work. You know, she says,
I go crazy, and I used to go crazy because
it was so hard and I was fighting all the time.
But the computer has kept me alive and got me
(24:44):
back into the business. So I have nothing to say that.
I am fucking amazed at what you can do on
the computer.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Fantastic, that's great. What about writing, I'm it's honestly. I
always enjoy that you go back to the sixties out
a lot of your stories. And uh, this is another one,
Last Days of Cony Islands?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
What uh? What?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
What can you tell us about the story for the
for the short?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Okay, I'll give you. First of all, ride is write
what they know about. If they know. If they're writing
about what they know about, this stuff is weak. If
they're taking it, this stuff doesn't come off. And that's
basically why I stay. When animators get together and do
a picture them their mainly lies. What does that mean?
(25:29):
It means that you sit down and you try to
concoct stuff that wasn't necessarily part of your personal experience
to make it exciting and interesting for people. So in
a sense, you're you're concocting stuff. I go back to
the sixties because I have a lot of experience in
the sixties, you know, and there's a lot of stories
(25:49):
to tell, and people were different than I can make
them from parents. And the picture could pay us today
in the sixties and what's going on today, you know
it compare the peace movement last days. See Cornea Island
used to be a glorious spot in America. But corne
Island I was a little burnt down and dead, very
(26:11):
similar to what's happening to America. In other words, we're
losing our way. I don't have to tell you about congruence.
I don't want to go into talking about the vultgage
finance mess and all the banks that row people clean
and could you imagine not wanting to tags the rich.
I mean, all this is new to America, you know.
(26:34):
And if I go back in the sixties, I can
talk about it. I can talk about Kennedy's assassination, which
is happening in a bar. Well, my characters are talking
about something else and how they react to it, you know,
And I'm saying, well, the determined what the attitude was.
So there's a lot going on. It's about basically lifting
(26:55):
the conlands an egotist to become four and a half
feet high, you know who's thinks of God, you know,
which is like an acts like we're acting now, you know.
And it tells a story about what a lot of
It's a murder story, it's a horror story, but it
all weaves through the sixties Bobby Dylan's Coming Alive. You know,
(27:22):
one of the boss scenes when Jack when Bob when
the kid of Kennedy's son salutes about the funeral possession.
It was there's a stunning piece of film that happened
when they were taking the streeta cortege, you know. After yes, absolutely,
you know, and Morley says, oh is an acute you know,
(27:44):
looking at the television, and this little this little son
of a bitch says, yeah, you want to see his father?
You know. It's that kind of thing. Islets allows me
to get into the various things that I heard in
the sixties, you know. So it discusses people trying to
(28:05):
live their lives and how the outside world affects them
or doesn't affect them. You know. So I write as
I go and I change as I go. My style
is very much that so I've written the script. Whether
that's the script I end up with, I couldn't tell you.
I know I wrote, I wrote, I handed in any traffic.
(28:26):
We wrote the thing, and I handed in coonskin, and
as I was making the picture totally changed. So I
don't know how I work. It's very odd, you know
what I'm saying. So I just don't want to give
away the story either because I don't want to get
a sick version of it from the studio. You can
say that, you know, it's you know, I gotta be
(28:47):
careful that someone doesn't jump on it and does a merchandiseable,
a bedizal booby out of it.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
You know, I understand, Well, you're a great eavesdropper, it
seems because this always these moments in your films that
really are It just seem like you're a fly on
the wall. And it's before we talked today, I was
watching a bit of Fritz the Cat and that opening
scene of the construction workers talking about how kids today,
(29:16):
you know, they think they invented having sex before marriage.
But the respect that we used to show to you know,
when we used to go out with a girl, there
was just one girl and It's just this wonderfully natural
conversation between guys. And it really does sound like, you know,
you just stuck a microphone amongst a bunch of construction.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Okay, that's part of myself. Look, you want construction workers talking,
I wrote that down right there, you go find Okay,
this is what you want in the filmf you want
to open a film on a high bridge up there,
you know, building a building, discussing the sixties, That's what
I wanted to write a director, right, I went out
a bunch of construction workers. We sat down with a bottle.
(29:56):
I bought a bottle. I bought my paper code like
a peach guy on hundred bucks, and I'm ask him
questions if I you're asking me, and they would talk
and talk, you know, and I'd edit the tape and
what I want like it and I get out of editor.
You have seen the stuff I had to throw out.
It's so great it would make five movies out of it.
(30:18):
But that's me. But that's what I'm saying. That's what
I'm gonna do with last Days. So what I'm thinking.
I did the same thing with the Black revolutionary talking
in the bar. You know, I was born in Oakwood.
You know I came. I was so poor. My mother
canna be peanut butter child Savage. That was the same thing,
(30:40):
a moment that you just go to the real person,
and that's what I need about reality. Uh now, look
at a Hunter Thompson that does that. Caroll Act did that.
I'm part of that generation, you know, absolutely, so you know,
jazz and musicians do that. So that's my background, that's
my upbring, you know, being on the streets. That's why
(31:03):
I can't stand Disney because they're not on the streets.
I don't know where. I don't know where you are.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I like I like to show people, uh that opening
sequence of Hey good Looking with the pile of trash
talking about heaven and then the the you know, just
just the meaning of life, it seems, and it's I
love that scene. And that's honestly, where where did that
come from? That was fantastic. It's just the whole idea
(31:33):
of the files of garbage talking about heaven and you
know what it means.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I wrote that, I wrote that I do right stuff
too well. Sure, I'm always discusseding God and and heaven
and and and misconceptions and misconceptions about religion, the misconceptions
about who we are, you know, someone else's you know,
here's a bunch of garbage gonna get burned, and they
think they're going to have in the I wrote that,
(31:58):
I'd love to do that. You know a lot of
that last day, you know, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
That's actually fantastic Man the Spider Man animated series. You know,
everyone decades later, we all we all still love it,
and it really is such an important piece. And and
you know I talked to a lot of comic book creators.
Uh that's that's my bread and butter, as far as
a lot of my interviews, good memories of that experience.
How how do you look back on, uh, those episodes
(32:24):
of Spider Man.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, you know, I didn't. I wasn't making First Seek
Cat yet, I I write, Heavy Traffic wasn't even in
my mind exactly. You know, I was new, I had
a major character to work with, my own studio I
was building. I wanted my own studio very badly. You know,
I think if I wanted able to make my own cartoons,
(32:45):
I had pretty much full controlable. Budgets were horrible, you know,
but I worked with great artists like Staiko and the
Gray Morrow before I met presenter and I met crane O,
so wow, you know, uh, while he would get some
work for me, and it's work for me in Paramount,
So I was feeling good. I was young, you know,
(33:08):
I was under about twenty five twenty six, so you
mean you're young. Everything's fine. I was very happy with it.
You know, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And you mentioned Fire and Ice and I had no idea.
But I was reading some other interviews you did last year.
Uh and and somebody mentioned that, uh, Robert Rodriguez wanted
to do a remake of Fire and Ice.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I spoke to him this week over the emails
that he said, I'm going to shoot it next summer. Wow,
you bet you will. You got your airflow because I
get my head, I get a nice sea if you
shoots it. He came. He wanted to do it. He
wants to be live action. I would never remake that.
So it's fine, you know, making sure make it late
(33:50):
Sin City and fansta and he said he wouldn't. He
says as an email that you can't believe all the emails.
He said he's shooting get next clemmer. He's now shooting
sin City too, right, you know, so I seth the
line and he got some intention.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And yes he's you know, wow, that's fantastic. And you know, sir,
I really enjoyed your participation in the Preseetta documentary Playing
with Fire a few years ago too, and and it
was more fun seeing your your friendship with Frizetta camera.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I love the guy. He's gone, you know, yes, sir,
the kids are he's never mind because he's gone. I
feel terrible about that. Man. I quit the world without
Frank Faza doesn't make any sense anyhow. I love the guy.
He was just great. He just was. This was a guy.
And you know, I was at beating in a lot
and stickball. So he doesn't never admitted it. He was,
(34:42):
you know, how did he say? He can't argue, you see,
but whether I did it to that, it doesn't that
I say I did.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Hey, honestly, I appreciate your time. I'll let you go,
but but good luck with the kicks started a campaign.
I hope that we'll have the opportunity to talk again
anytime you want.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
You're a good guy, You're a good Where.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Are you at of I'm in Chicago, Chicago.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
No wonder great teach to good people. Wonderful Chicago people. Nah.
Louise and Girelli, one of the best daughters ever worked
for me. Louise and Gurelli works for me on all
kinds of movies of that in Chicago. She recently passed
from cancer, but Chicago's cool. Thanks. Anytime you want to good,
speak to me.
Hey, everybody, welcome back time again for Word Balloon the
Comic book Conversation show John Santras. Here a little deviation
from comics. I'm gonna be talking to an animation master,
Ralph Bakshi.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He of sixty seven Spider Man, Saturday Morning Cartoons. He
of Terry Toons and the Adventures of Mighty Mouse and
Deputy Dog Fritz the Cat, so many great movies, wizards.
When I spoke to him in twenty thirteen, he was
raising funds for the Last Days of Cony Island, which
he's finished and is available on YouTube and Vimeo as well,
(00:34):
and of course at Ralph's website ralph baksheet dot com.
I absolutely recommend you checking it out. This man was
always a maverick, and especially in a movie animation once
he got the opportunity to start making them. Of course,
he did the original animation adaptation of Lord of the
Rings as well, and just an amazing career, an amazing
(00:56):
filmmaker and a guy that took no crap, and you
will hear that in this discussion. And also, man, I'll
tell you this is twenty thirteen so prescient about where
movie studios are, especially when it comes to animation. And
again you'll forgive the old man here. I'm cool with
you know, animation for kids, and that's great, and you know,
(01:18):
let them watch their stuff just like we watched our
stuff and everything, but all the merchandising, and we had
merchandising when we were kids. Give me a break, you know,
from serial premiums to you know, every year at Christmas,
come on, you gotta have that toy that's tied to
that TV show, movies from Migos and Star Wars, et cetera. Anyway,
(01:39):
the point is this guy knew what he was talking
about and how sadly today's movie business is. Even back
in twenty thirteen, it really hasn't changed much. But really
great conversation and it was really an honor to have
this opportunity to talk to him. Ralph Bakshi from twenty
thirteen talking about the last days of the Island, a
(02:00):
few other lost classics, and more on today's word Balloon.
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(02:23):
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Speaker 2 (03:20):
All Right, let's get into this now. From February of
twenty thirteen, my conversation with Ralph Bakshi, starting off with
his last Exit to Cony Island, which you can find
on YouTube these days, and I urge you to do
that because this is the kind of experimental animation that
made him famous. And you know, there's very few examples
of this. I mean, you got Ralph, you got Bill Plimpton.
(03:43):
How many guys are really out there? And I'm talking
about the old gard and I'm sure there's a lot
of new stuff that's being created, but these are the
masters that have proven themselves time and time again. Let's
talk to Ralph Bakshi on today's word Balloon. I'm a
longtime fan, ser and it's a pleasure to speak to you,
and I thank you for doing this interviews.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
No problem.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I'm psyched for the new movie. I'm thrilled that you're
you're doing this and them intrigued that you're using Kickstarter
to fund Last Days of Coney Island. What can you
tell me? Why? Why the why the crowdfunding through kickstarts?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, you know, well it's an easy question to answer.
First of all, the I'm not looking to do anything
except animation, and I'm looking, you know, I'm not. I
don't have any dreams of you know, used merchandising schemes
or major relief from from theaters anymore. In other words,
I decided, like I've always enjoyed to do the films
(04:37):
that I wanted to do. And I decided, I'm going
to try to make movies and release them on the net,
meaning Mike Blog or the Backship channel which were creating,
or on YouTube. You know that if I could raise
money to do this, that I could be creatively free
(04:58):
and it would be good for animation. This would be
no restrictions, just like your black here, and there would
be no fighting with studios who tear up by films
and ripping the shreds. You know. I did take Last
Days a couple of years ago, Codey Island the studios
and they said it wasn't merchandizable. Well times it wasn't. No,
(05:20):
it's not sure, but I said, look, I don't need
a lot of money, and I wasn't the merchandiz it.
You know, I'm looking to do a good movie and
I don't mind as millions of people come to a
theater and you know, and make you guys rich, and
I don't mind driving an all Ferrari around me. I
have nothing against money if it comes the right way.
(05:40):
I just don't want to exactly do what you're doing,
which is, you know, kind of merchandizable stuff only. So
I took up back home, and then I realized that
the watching the kickstarted thing that that this might be
a way, and I'm trying to prove it. If it is,
ab do all my animation for the net and maybe
(06:05):
somehow I'll find a way to make a profit so
I can make it myself what I'm going to kickstarter.
So that's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, I understand and I can appreciate that. It just
it really does blow my mind given your body of
work and the media outlets that are there that some
HBO or Showtime. I mean, I understand maybe from a
major film company's perspective, and as you say, they're looking
for merchandising, but it just seems like you've always had
(06:36):
this great edgy voice that you know, people respond to
when they when they see your movies. But it shocks
me that there were no TV outlets that that might
be interested in being in the raft up actually business.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Well, you know you brought them an interesting the question.
I didn't even think about it. You know, nobody calls anybody,
you know, everyone waits. Everyone waits for some poor fil
make it to come to the door so they could
take as much as they could from them, because if
they go, they call a filmmaker, then the negotiations are
(07:08):
on the filmmaker side. I guess I'm not sure what
I'm saying is of HBO and Showtime in any one
of those places could have had this. They still might.
In other words, you know, once they see it and
I make it, if I'm lucky enough to get the money,
it doesn't mean that they won't call. Or I could
(07:29):
send them deim to say, here it is. You know,
it would be easier for me to do it. In
other words, what's great about this? Because you know what
I mean? You know I did an HBO animated series
called Spicy City. Well, if you think they didn't interfere,
you know, if you think, you know they live up,
they live up to everything they say. You know, they're
(07:51):
all load for you. You know it's far. You know
what they plan is a certain outrageousness. It's all planned
you know, it's still very much like, you know, we're cool.
If they're going to figure out how to be cool,
you know, we just can't do. So what I'm saying,
as one of the other executives running around, you don't
(08:13):
know what the fuck is going to come out of
their mouth at any given point. So if I do
this and they like what they're looking at, I love
to do a longer version on HBO. You know, I
wasn't even considering of the Spicy City. Let me take
you play around Spicy City. Okay, Rocky, So I sell
Spicy City to HBO, and I fell it with me
(08:35):
wanting to hire unknown writers from New York because I
was living in New York at the time, Okay, okay.
And I wanted to hire different nationalities, you know, Chinese
and Korea. You know, I wanted to get another perspective,
like I felt tired of my own perspectives and if
Hollywood perspective, Hollywood writers, you know. And I had a
(09:00):
bunch of five riders. You know, what was the one
that had just gotten out of prison, you know, and
it was clean, he was clean, but you know, Puerto
Rican kid, and they all were raw and intelligent and
they wrote poetry all flow and they went to Poetryno's
Slam Bang Poetry things in Manhattan. They were great, great guys,
(09:23):
and I was paying in fifteen hundred of script. They
were crying. I mean, these guys never made more than
an hundred bucks night than never wrote Sure, and we
had a hit show. We had the highest rating in
that at our time. Flat okay the first season. Then
HBO gives me a call time in the second season
(09:44):
and they say, this is the twoth story. The guy
that did that is gone since he ran HBO. At
that point they threw him out all break crypt or
break okay. That was he captured me. Chris Aubert in
charge of the whole thing, and he said, you know,
we want to use LA riders. You know what, we
(10:06):
want to use LA riders. If they wait a minute,
you guys just get you a hit show. You're great.
Why LA writers, what are they gonna do? Why would
I need them? And what do I tell these guys
the thanks for the hit show? Goodbye? It would be
as I quit. And that's why spys is anyone else
(10:26):
to here? See I walked out. What I'm saying is
why you know why they wanted La Riders because they
had a hit show and now they wanted to control it.
They wanted to they wanted to make sure it was
taken out of my hands. In other words, with my rioters,
I controlled the show. With their riders. That they're going
to hire those riders. They control the writers. So they
(10:49):
want they had a hit show and they wanted to continue.
They want to take it over. And that that was that.
You know, most I can tell you most directed in
my position, I would have gone with them because there's
a lot of money involved potentially, but I didn't. There's
no way I can know those guys and say guess what, guys, uh,
(11:12):
thank you. But you know, to get them to write
and to get their hopes up, you're one of the
things about working with artists is like you know, you
want them to feel great, and you want them. The
better they feel, the better the work is sure, you
know what I'm saying. So I was furious, I don't
know more anger in my home life. It's one thing
(11:34):
to blow something. And they said, look, we changed the
writings because another thing has the best ratings that ever
had in that time slot, and want to change the writings.
They got you there. How sick is that the once
it made it because the shows read. The other reason
the show existed was because of its etchiness. You know,
it's like a homosexuals writing but homosexual the Philippine guy,
(11:59):
a guy jails for pat Puerto Rican. I mean that
guy wrote the hands. The guy had the hand. It
was cut off a guy and was running around killing people.
I mean this they had a whole wasn't look on
what American horrors. They got some different origens. I thought
that in itself was a brilliant idea. So when you say,
(12:19):
HBO in these places, why I go to Kickstart, I
don't know. You know, I've had two experiences with them.
They're working last day. I'd love for them to do that.
They want to do what I just did it if
I managed to make it our kickstarta they want to
do what I'm doing on Kickstart. To find here. What
I'm doing on Kickstarter is the pilot in a sense,
(12:42):
you know, So that's the pilot for it. And I
mean the second short that I would do with a
Kickstarter is a Wizard too. There was a secrets cut
out of Wizard one. You know, I've always wanted to
we didn't have the money to finish. I made the
picture and I had to let it go. But was okay,
was exactly part of the story. I could afford the
(13:03):
extra lens, you know what I'm saying. So it was
a very heavy scene. It was this railroad distance box
car that was taking the elves. You know, there's a
little about Nazis with it, taking the elves locked up
to a concentration camp, you know, which you happened to
the Jews in World War Two and I certainly even
(13:24):
discussing that and Wizards and all these elder a box
cars and on top of the box cars, you know,
were those Green soldiers the Nazis, the Black Wolf projects
and he stacked the back of car to free the elves.
And it's an incredible action. Secrets of killing all those passwids,
you know, as the train roars along over precipices and
(13:45):
stuff and over bridges, you know, and it's a violent scene,
and of course he manages to stop the train and
three the elves. I want to do that secret so
after last days, I would do that for Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's fantastic and I and I got to tell you, sir, Wizards,
was the first of your films that I saw, and
it blew my mind. And that's really exciting to hear
that a new sequence like that, you know, is something
that you would want to fund it and do. I
think that's fantastic and it's interesting. Wouldn't it seem And
forgive me for armchair quarterbacking you, but wouldn't it seem
(14:23):
like that might be the better one to start with
given the cult popularity of Wizards. I'm thrilled that you're
doing something new, and I'm always excited when you have
something new out there. So Last Days the Cody Island
is exciting in itself, but it just seems like to
get the ball rolling, maybe Wizards an extra I'm not.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I have my own shrewdness for brewness. You know. I
take a chance. Now you're going to announce Wizards too,
and I in the Kicks out of film allude to it.
I show peace riding around. What I'm hoping is, you know,
I've done Wizards. You know I'm not great on sequels,
(15:03):
but I'd like to do this with the fans. You know, Okay,
I've done Wizards. I love Teeth, but for me to
stay fresh, I've got to see what I got left
on these characters. So motherfucker, if you want to see
Wizards too, get last Day's going you see. So in
a way, I'm saying, look, I this is for me,
Last Days Wizards is for you. You know what I'm saying.
(15:27):
So I do That's what I'm doing. Number three, I
would do Kuskin.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Too, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So that's the announcement. That's my plan, and that's what
I'm trying to do. And then heavy traffic, And what
I'm saying is I could continue to do more with
each one of these films and release him on the net.
So maybe I could start a business on the net.
Maybe just making them is enough. You know, I'm seventy
(15:54):
four just making them and work with a bunch of
talents small, you know, whatever you want to do, dude,
you know what you know? How great that is? I mean,
do you know how anazing that? How can fifty bucks
for one hundred bucks to direct the film? I'll make
it more, Sally, could you imagine the joy and working
with towned people and whatever we want. I don't know
(16:15):
what drives these other guys, you know, these other artists
and animators. You know, I have no idea why you'd
sit there doing the same stuff over and over and over.
Agains it's for a big salary. If I could do this,
I need the happiest man in the world. Certainly, it
would be nice to go out and do a billion
dollar grossing film, if it's the film I want. I
(16:36):
get nothing against taking my hand and his fortunes, and
I've got nothing against buying an old Ferrari or something
and driving around America in it. You know, I won't
sell out together. I think it's a difference. But could
you imagine just as an artist, and that's all I am.
So it's a win win situation. But you could tell
(16:58):
those people they want to see Wizards, they better get
Left Day funded. I understand, I'm Brooklyn. Then yeah, that's great.
That's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, I think that's great, And it's really fantastic to
see that. You you get what the opportunity to make
this stuff for the Internet is, and it seems like
it's great to hear that from someone like yourself that
you know, has has had big time films and stuff,
and you get the like you say, I mean, you
stay true to your vision and you can make it. Uh,
(17:35):
the satisfaction of the artist at this point of making
this new stuff. No, I think that's wonderful about that.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I've always been I've always said as an artist, car
that's why I made these films because I wasn't gonna
you know, it always was that for me. I can
sell films today if I sell out and pick up
and you have to direct under their movies. Really, were
you crazy? I said what I'm saying, Well, that's what
I'm talking about, Uh, the joy being an animator. We're
(18:02):
let me tell you something off the record.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, okay, all right, we won't put this on by okay,
but what.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
You can you think about it? Yeah, you can put
it on. Look, let me tell you something. Okay. The
older you get, I don't get too more of it.
But you know, the older you get, the more you
realize it's a one way ticket in this life. We
leave the one my ticket. What I'm getting out of
this alive, which is not And it doesn't matter how
much we die with financially, you've got to do something
(18:29):
you really love on the way or the whole thing's
going to waste the time. We're all going down the
same roads, you know, sooner or later, and the way
the world looks go even be sooner. That's all it's about, guys.
I can't make these decisions thinking they're gonna somehow. I'm
not safe this issue. They're gonna live forever, and you
can sell out their whole lives and be miserable but
(18:51):
make a lot of money, you know. Okay, that's what
you want to do, but doesn't make you happy. We
got one way on this road. It's a one way road. Now.
That's the best advice I can get to anyone listening
out there. Think about that. They can't hide from the truth.
Everyone hides from the truth in the reality. We're out
(19:12):
of here with gone finished good.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I'm with you now. I'm back to last days of
Coney Island. As you say, this is kind of a
pilot episode. So are you thinking? And this is before
the kickstarter is out so you might addressed us in
the video, But I'm going to ask you ten minutes,
twenty minutes, how long do you think it'll u I see.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I see how much bread we get. Yes, if you're
getting enough money, I'll do the whole fucking thing for
an hour. Yes, what comes in so it's taught me
to say.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Is your background when you first got into animation, this was,
you know, the fifties and Tarry Tunes. Are there tricks
that you learned as far as maybe and and and
forgive me, because I saw lots of this stuff on television,
and I can't remember how much of it was produce
for the theaters and how much of it was produced
for television. But I know you also did your body
(20:05):
of work in limited animation in the sixties as well.
Are those tricks and an ability to do that kind
of limited animation? Do you apply any of that kind.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Of That's a very good question, Okay. Full animation is
what I is what I try to do and do,
and I've always done what Terry Tunes taught me, you know,
is production tricks, in other words, how the stuff goes
through the house and how you finish it. I use
(20:37):
every trick in the book. I'm magical, and there are
millions of them. Most guys don't to keep the course down,
for example, Wizards, okay and Fritz. We could not afford
pencil tests. You know what pencil tests are, right, I do, yes, sir,
we cannot afford pencil tests. Okay, I don't I want
that pencil test. That's that a trick. That's a production decision.
(21:01):
And my animated for high. What both the animators are
high at Virgil Raws. You know, all those great short
animators with fifty years experience in the business. I wasn't concerned.
They've got so many pencil tests at this stage of
their lives. Although they're good, and if the scene's not
exactly perfect, I'll still put it in. That's a trick.
(21:22):
I mean, if you're doing I've seen guys got out
of business trying to make that scene the most perfect
scene in the world. And you know why they untill
they cost them a fortune, and you know why they
do it. But they're not saying anything. You see, if
you're saying something, the animation could be a little crude,
a little sloppy. If you're not saying anything, you've gotta
(21:45):
be good to say. So you're looking at it on
the screen, it's good animation. If it's not good yet,
you're not saying anything. Who needs you? So? One other
thing is they think get terrified at putting anything on
the screen that's not what they call a perfect No.
I say, guys, let's all get to this. Let's all
do the best we could. I want full animation, that's quality,
(22:09):
but I'm not gonna shoot it. You make a mistake.
So in the production tricks that I learned, are you
never trick in the book to keep the cause down?
And there are a million of them, so that that's
my technique.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Okay, but it's all you Well, I'm sorry, no, no, finish.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Well, I'm not going to kill an animator if he
makes a mistake and I put it up to the bed.
Look guy, that could have been better, but so what
you know matter? Yeah? What's his name? And just beaten
a ship out of idol? Who cares if the it's
not perfect? We know he's beaten her up, you know,
and that myself is nuts, you know. So those are
the kind of decisions I make as a director. If
(22:51):
I working for Disney, would have to be perfect because
I'm not doing anything except the fairy desk, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah? Yeah, Well how about the tools today? Do you
you know? I mean, are you do you ever try
and draw on a on a tablet with a stylist?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Of course I had that the film I put together
on Kick the computer and the program so much you
could do with the computer is mind boggling. It allows,
you know, everything I did on Traffic and Wisden from
everything I got in the box in my living room
on my computer at one tenth the cost. So the
(23:28):
entire back end production is now virtually nothing. The feees
I can pull more into the animation. I hire Young Animates.
Colleen Cox is a girl who lives in Singapore for
two years self toward animator. She did the first animation
on the Kickstarter film of the New Characters. Right she works,
(23:50):
I say dead ahead on Awaken tablets. Wonderful work. I
have nothing against the new techniques. I draw, you know,
pencil and paper and thanks, and I scan it to
these different various people and they go to work with
it on their computers. So I'm pretty much do it
my way. But my animes and stuff, they're all on
(24:12):
those programs and that's what I want. But I'm not animating,
so you know it's their at their job.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Understood, you know, understood.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But I love I love the computer. It's allowed me
to do this. I don't have to leave my house
and I could do these shorts. If I left my house,
my wife would shoot me. Because she doesn't even want
me to go back to work. You know, she says,
I go crazy, and I used to go crazy because
it was so hard and I was fighting all the time.
But the computer has kept me alive and got me
(24:44):
back into the business. So I have nothing to say that.
I am fucking amazed at what you can do on
the computer.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Fantastic, that's great. What about writing, I'm it's honestly. I
always enjoy that you go back to the sixties out
a lot of your stories. And uh, this is another one,
Last Days of Cony Islands?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
What uh? What?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
What can you tell us about the story for the
for the short?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Okay, I'll give you. First of all, ride is write
what they know about. If they know. If they're writing
about what they know about, this stuff is weak. If
they're taking it, this stuff doesn't come off. And that's
basically why I stay. When animators get together and do
a picture them their mainly lies. What does that mean?
(25:29):
It means that you sit down and you try to
concoct stuff that wasn't necessarily part of your personal experience
to make it exciting and interesting for people. So in
a sense, you're you're concocting stuff. I go back to
the sixties because I have a lot of experience in
the sixties, you know, and there's a lot of stories
(25:49):
to tell, and people were different than I can make
them from parents. And the picture could pay us today
in the sixties and what's going on today, you know
it compare the peace movement last days. See Cornea Island
used to be a glorious spot in America. But corne
Island I was a little burnt down and dead, very
(26:11):
similar to what's happening to America. In other words, we're
losing our way. I don't have to tell you about congruence.
I don't want to go into talking about the vultgage
finance mess and all the banks that row people clean
and could you imagine not wanting to tags the rich.
I mean, all this is new to America, you know.
(26:34):
And if I go back in the sixties, I can
talk about it. I can talk about Kennedy's assassination, which
is happening in a bar. Well, my characters are talking
about something else and how they react to it, you know,
And I'm saying, well, the determined what the attitude was.
So there's a lot going on. It's about basically lifting
(26:55):
the conlands an egotist to become four and a half
feet high, you know who's thinks of God, you know,
which is like an acts like we're acting now, you know.
And it tells a story about what a lot of
It's a murder story, it's a horror story, but it
all weaves through the sixties Bobby Dylan's Coming Alive. You know,
(27:22):
one of the boss scenes when Jack when Bob when
the kid of Kennedy's son salutes about the funeral possession.
It was there's a stunning piece of film that happened
when they were taking the streeta cortege, you know. After yes, absolutely,
you know, and Morley says, oh is an acute you know,
(27:44):
looking at the television, and this little this little son
of a bitch says, yeah, you want to see his father?
You know. It's that kind of thing. Islets allows me
to get into the various things that I heard in
the sixties, you know. So it discusses people trying to
(28:05):
live their lives and how the outside world affects them
or doesn't affect them. You know. So I write as
I go and I change as I go. My style
is very much that so I've written the script. Whether
that's the script I end up with, I couldn't tell you.
I know I wrote, I wrote, I handed in any traffic.
(28:26):
We wrote the thing, and I handed in coonskin, and
as I was making the picture totally changed. So I
don't know how I work. It's very odd, you know
what I'm saying. So I just don't want to give
away the story either because I don't want to get
a sick version of it from the studio. You can
say that, you know, it's you know, I gotta be
(28:47):
careful that someone doesn't jump on it and does a merchandiseable,
a bedizal booby out of it.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
You know, I understand, Well, you're a great eavesdropper, it
seems because this always these moments in your films that
really are It just seem like you're a fly on
the wall. And it's before we talked today, I was
watching a bit of Fritz the Cat and that opening
scene of the construction workers talking about how kids today,
(29:16):
you know, they think they invented having sex before marriage.
But the respect that we used to show to you know,
when we used to go out with a girl, there
was just one girl and It's just this wonderfully natural
conversation between guys. And it really does sound like, you know,
you just stuck a microphone amongst a bunch of construction.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Okay, that's part of myself. Look, you want construction workers talking,
I wrote that down right there, you go find Okay,
this is what you want in the filmf you want
to open a film on a high bridge up there,
you know, building a building, discussing the sixties, That's what
I wanted to write a director, right, I went out
a bunch of construction workers. We sat down with a bottle.
(29:56):
I bought a bottle. I bought my paper code like
a peach guy on hundred bucks, and I'm ask him
questions if I you're asking me, and they would talk
and talk, you know, and I'd edit the tape and
what I want like it and I get out of editor.
You have seen the stuff I had to throw out.
It's so great it would make five movies out of it.
(30:18):
But that's me. But that's what I'm saying. That's what
I'm gonna do with last Days. So what I'm thinking.
I did the same thing with the Black revolutionary talking
in the bar. You know, I was born in Oakwood.
You know I came. I was so poor. My mother
canna be peanut butter child Savage. That was the same thing,
(30:40):
a moment that you just go to the real person,
and that's what I need about reality. Uh now, look
at a Hunter Thompson that does that. Caroll Act did that.
I'm part of that generation, you know, absolutely, so you know,
jazz and musicians do that. So that's my background, that's
my upbring, you know, being on the streets. That's why
(31:03):
I can't stand Disney because they're not on the streets.
I don't know where. I don't know where you are.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I like I like to show people, uh that opening
sequence of Hey good Looking with the pile of trash
talking about heaven and then the the you know, just
just the meaning of life, it seems, and it's I
love that scene. And that's honestly, where where did that
come from? That was fantastic. It's just the whole idea
(31:33):
of the files of garbage talking about heaven and you
know what it means.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I wrote that, I wrote that I do right stuff
too well. Sure, I'm always discusseding God and and heaven
and and and misconceptions and misconceptions about religion, the misconceptions
about who we are, you know, someone else's you know,
here's a bunch of garbage gonna get burned, and they
think they're going to have in the I wrote that,
(31:58):
I'd love to do that. You know a lot of
that last day, you know, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
That's actually fantastic Man the Spider Man animated series. You know,
everyone decades later, we all we all still love it,
and it really is such an important piece. And and
you know I talked to a lot of comic book creators.
Uh that's that's my bread and butter, as far as
a lot of my interviews, good memories of that experience.
How how do you look back on, uh, those episodes
(32:24):
of Spider Man.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, you know, I didn't. I wasn't making First Seek
Cat yet, I I write, Heavy Traffic wasn't even in
my mind exactly. You know, I was new, I had
a major character to work with, my own studio I
was building. I wanted my own studio very badly. You know,
I think if I wanted able to make my own cartoons,
(32:45):
I had pretty much full controlable. Budgets were horrible, you know,
but I worked with great artists like Staiko and the
Gray Morrow before I met presenter and I met crane O,
so wow, you know, uh, while he would get some
work for me, and it's work for me in Paramount,
So I was feeling good. I was young, you know,
(33:08):
I was under about twenty five twenty six, so you
mean you're young. Everything's fine. I was very happy with it.
You know, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And you mentioned Fire and Ice and I had no idea.
But I was reading some other interviews you did last year.
Uh and and somebody mentioned that, uh, Robert Rodriguez wanted
to do a remake of Fire and Ice.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I spoke to him this week over the emails
that he said, I'm going to shoot it next summer. Wow,
you bet you will. You got your airflow because I
get my head, I get a nice sea if you
shoots it. He came. He wanted to do it. He
wants to be live action. I would never remake that.
So it's fine, you know, making sure make it late
(33:50):
Sin City and fansta and he said he wouldn't. He
says as an email that you can't believe all the emails.
He said he's shooting get next clemmer. He's now shooting
sin City too, right, you know, so I seth the
line and he got some intention.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And yes he's you know, wow, that's fantastic. And you know, sir,
I really enjoyed your participation in the Preseetta documentary Playing
with Fire a few years ago too, and and it
was more fun seeing your your friendship with Frizetta camera.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I love the guy. He's gone, you know, yes, sir,
the kids are he's never mind because he's gone. I
feel terrible about that. Man. I quit the world without
Frank Faza doesn't make any sense anyhow. I love the guy.
He was just great. He just was. This was a guy.
And you know, I was at beating in a lot
and stickball. So he doesn't never admitted it. He was,
(34:42):
you know, how did he say? He can't argue, you see,
but whether I did it to that, it doesn't that
I say I did.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Hey, honestly, I appreciate your time. I'll let you go,
but but good luck with the kicks started a campaign.
I hope that we'll have the opportunity to talk again
anytime you want.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
You're a good guy, You're a good Where.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Are you at of I'm in Chicago, Chicago.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
No wonder great teach to good people. Wonderful Chicago people. Nah.
Louise and Girelli, one of the best daughters ever worked
for me. Louise and Gurelli works for me on all
kinds of movies of that in Chicago. She recently passed
from cancer, but Chicago's cool. Thanks. Anytime you want to good,
speak to me.
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