Scene Missing: The Robert Redford Files

On this episode of Scene Missing, I sit down with writer–artist and filmmaker Gabriel Hardman to dive into the legendary film and television work of Robert Redford. From his breakout charm in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid to his understated power in The Way We Were , and his later turns as both actor and director, Redford has carved out a career that blends charisma, craft, and cultural impact. Gabriel and I share our personal favorite Redford performances and projects, looking at what made him such a timeless figure on screen—and why his influence still resonates in today’s Hollywood.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, welcome back time again for Word Balloon the
Comic Book Conversation show. John cuntris here an addition of
scene missing happened last night. Me and Gabe Hardman got
together and we talked about the films of Robert Redford
that we've liked over the years. You know, I'm all
disappointed in blaming myself. Excellent ski movie Downhill Racer. We
briefly mentioned it. It's him and Gene Hackman, an early

(00:22):
movie that even takes place around the time of the
nineteen sixty eight Winter Olympics. So definitely seek that out.
Beyond the other movies that we talk about. We talk
about the obvious movies, and we start with Butch Cassidy
and The Sun Dance, Gid and the Sting, which George
roy Hill film with Redford and Newman. Do we like better?

(00:42):
Good discussion there, but you know, everything comes up the Natural,
his great Twilight Zone episode that he did, so many
other great things over the years that we've all appreciated
with Robert Redford. And again, like I say in the show,
he had a good run eighty nine. That's good. He
did fine. So I hope you'll enjoy this conversation with
myself and Gabe Hartman talking about the films that not

(01:04):
only he started, but directed in Robert Redford, the subject
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com slash word Balloon. Hey you doing, everybody, Welcome back.
It's time again for another word Balloon scene missing and

(02:29):
we're going to be talking today about a great man
that we lost although he had a good run, and
that is Robert Redford. Here he is young, there, he
is old, old ish, but you know we I'm sure
we'll cover the breath of his career in this conversation.
Good to see my co host, Gabriel Hartman. Good to
see him. Man, that's to see you, John. I'm nice

(02:50):
to be back. And you know, sad, sad times man,
but but a ball in eighty nine, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Good, No, I mean absolutely absolutely good run. I mean
I think of anything. The fact that like you know,
his hair never changed, made people think he would you know,
he should he should always be around, you know, and
look he he did have pretty amazing hair and hair
that never seemed to change no matter what time period

(03:16):
the movie is.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Or anything else.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
So uh, it's uh, he certainly had his his his
aesthetic and the and and he's a movie star, right,
Like he was a movie star. He wasn't he wasn't
really deeply versatile actor exactly. He was a you know,
he had that movie star thing, which is a great
thing in and of itself, like versatility is overrated, Like,

(03:42):
you know, being able to do the job that you're
doing is you know, is the thing I think.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, and an accomplished director in the movies that we know,
and I mean, you know, and then you know, listen
if you if everybody that's watching or listening has your
obvious favorites and everything, we under stand, but you know,
scene missing. Sometimes we like to dig beyond the obvious,
and there might still be a couple of obvious ones
in our lists.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
But yeah, but I mean we're doing but we're like
the point of doing this is like to cover something
a little bit different than what literally everybody else will.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, the hidden gems. Yeah, definitely definitely because I already
see you know, Gikurojo. Last last time I watched The
last film I watched was which Guessie and Sundance gid
first time watching, and it mostly lived up to its reputation.
I think the Sting is the better Newman Red for
George roy Hill joint. That's a fair discussion.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, I'm literally I'm I feel little the opposite of that.
But uh, you know, but like h but what I mean, uh,
I mean, if we wanted to start with the super
famous thing, I mean, I uh, this thing is fine.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
I like this thing fine, it's you know, it's got
its thing to it.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
But the but like I think, and I guess in reality,
I like butsch casting the Sundance Kid fine too.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I really like it.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
It's a movie that is very watchable and very enjoyable.
It doesn't like stick with me the way some other
things do. I mean, I just my personal sensibilities, stuff
like the you know, uh you know, comparing that to
the the Randolph Scott Western so or the you know
those fifties adult westerns, the Anthony Man, James Stewart Wessons

(05:21):
and stuff like, I kind of do prefer those those
kind of stay with me more. But but it's but
but and Sunday it's such a like it's such a
well made movie. Uh, And certainly I don't think from
this perspective we get as much of the sense of
how different it was, like tone wise and everything. For

(05:42):
you know, these guys who were not you know, who
were acting a little bit more contemporary.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Who are you know, who are not like not like.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Those other guys in those other movies I described, not sullen,
not you know whatever like there, it's fun. It's a
fun movie. Like it's a movie movie.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
In a lot of ways. I think I'm with you
on that. And also it's the first time they all
got together, all three of them. Yeah. And uh, and
I mean I hey, listen, Stings set in Chicago, it's
shot in Chicago. Uh, there's a lot of Chicago that
I love about it. I love all the character actors
in that as well. But and then that's why I
lean a little more towards the stake. Yeah. But again,
but in Sundance, No, it's iconic. And again it represented

(06:20):
that New West period in a different way and certainly
different than our favorites of the fifties like Randolph Scott, Steord,
Anthony Man stuff and everything. And that it's a it's a.
It's the ultimate Buddy movie and the Sting is another
great Buddy.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh absolutely yeah. Nothing against the Sting.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
But one other thing.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
About for me that makes uh makes but Cassidy better
is uh, just the look of it. Hall shot it,
who we remember from uh from our Outer Limits days
where he started out, uh, and this was one of
the first movies.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
That he shot that became you know.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I mean, I guess he had done a couple of
things before this that we're well thought of, but like,
but it's an iconic one for him too. And the
look of it is so beautiful and well made, like
it's just so I love the feel of the world
of it that they create. Uh, And I think that
that the Sting doesn't work that way to me, Like
it doesn't feel like it feels like it's shot like

(07:21):
a TV movie to me, like it's flat. It doesn't
have that kind of sumptuousness to it, which I and also.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
In Chicago and especially the way they shot it isn't
going to give you the open spaces that we get
in Butchering Sun. Totally, totally, totally, but I mean, but
I agree with you. I don't even know who the
DP was for I don't.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Know, I either actually know that thing about it. So
but here Conrad Hall and I'm just an ass.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
But don't forget this thing at Robert shawp Plus I
love the common angle and how all the scams are
set up. Yeah, you know what, I never knew, and
I don't give it if I don't know, if I
don't know if you and I ever talked about it,
but I discussed a fifties episode of Orson Wells showed
the Third Man that was based on the Harry Lime character,

(08:07):
and they run the wire the same way that the
Sting does, and it is an old classic con that's
why they used it in the Sting. But it really
is crazy, literally to interest. Yeah, even to the point
of oh no, no, I said place the bet. Yeah,
not to win place the you know, sorry everybody spoiler
fifty year old spoiler, fifty two year old spoiler. Oh okay,

(08:29):
so Robert SERTI shot the Sting and he's great too,
So I'm not gonna I didn't rewind that this thing
is the one that I didn't get around to rewatching
just for this and it's been a few years. Okay,
you know, A great a great DP kind of scene
I think is when Charles Derning is chasing him on
that L train platform and you get them running on

(08:50):
the roof and all that stuff happening and everything in
a long shot. So I think that, I think that
beyond the cloistered you know, betting parlor and train are
and you know what, it's entirely possible that.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
However, I saw it it like it didn't look great
because I, like, I, you know, the last time, because
this happens a lot like one of the other things
I did rewatch for this or actually I don't think
I never watched the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I just saw parts of it on TV before. But
the way we were right, like, uh.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I had it in my mind that it's kind
of an ugly looking movie and it's too sappy for
me and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, and I watched it.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I thought it was great, Like I actually really enjoyed
that movie. Particularly. Look, I thought, you know, when when
Barbara streisand called somebody a fascist, it's sexy. I like it,
Like I enjoyed that a lot about the movie. Uh,
but like, uh, but and I thought she was great
in it actually, and she absolutely is. No, and they're

(09:47):
great together. Absolutely, I agree, and his I mean in
his character in it is you know, an interesting and
gets to be a little bit quintessential of the kind
of character he'll play where it's you know, he's got the.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Uh the.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
He's got like you know, he's.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Got the look, he's got the Robert Record of it all.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
You know, he's the super handsome man, but that there's
maybe something a little bit empty inside of him or
insecure inside of him, or he maybe doesn't like he
I saw an interview with him where he talked about
turning down that part initially and you know he uh
ah and that like and it was kind of just

(10:31):
because he didn't.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Uh hello fuddy uh uh so there's a underdog everybody, right,
so h there was.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Uh he was talking about how he turned it down
initially and the uh and that the character just seemed
too simple or like too like it was just too
simplistic of a thing and uh and worked with Sydney
Pollock on it a little bit and and found a
kind of thing where you know where the you know,
the character is that he's a writer and uh and

(11:09):
so is she and the and the way that he
kind of felt like he you know he could. Maybe
he didn't deserve it. Maybe he wasn't that great of
a writer, maybe he was just getting by on his
wealth and looks or whatever. Maybe it's that you know,
uh that he uh he had. He brought insecurities to
the character that are very subtly played and kind of

(11:31):
built into the way the character develops. But but I
thought we made it really kind of interesting. I mean,
I think he's a kind of hate able character in
a lot of ways in that movie. I mean, he
fusing walks away when she has the baby, you know,
and and like you know, but I really do like
how she stays true to her values the way that

(11:52):
they there's not some kind of very forced thing where
somebody gives up something whatever it. I think it's a
way more interesting movie than i'd give it a credit
for before.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
I completely agree, And I had forgotten because you hear
the song for fifteen years and so it does lean
into the romance of it. But no, I saw it.
I didn't rewatch it for this, but I know I've
seen it recently enough, as much as last year, and
all of the stuff about all the political stuff. Yeah,
of course, you know broadcast nerds, so I'm a sucker

(12:23):
for Blacklist. Yeah like that. Yeah, And in fact, you know,
we'll talk about nineties movie that Redford directed, I'm sure
in this conversation as well. And no so that, and
I'll even say as here's a guilty pleasure and a
more modern Redford film two decades later. But in a
lot of ways, and sadly I did bring up a

(12:44):
photo of it just because I wanted to point it
out up close and personal, which is a small sea movie.
But I haven't.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I didn't get to it. I was going to try
to watch it. I didn't get to it. I've never
actually seen it, so you have to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
As a broadcast nerd. It's willy Michelle Fifer's career from
nobody at a reading TV station to the weather girl
to a true journalist, and Redford plays this producer cameraman
that really helps her, you know, learn her craft and
get better. It is schmaltzy, but in a lot of ways,
it's got a way we were vibe in a different

(13:20):
way because there's a mentorship rather than them being contemporaries.
But yeah, again, but the thing is just like in
way we were and Redford would lean on this a
lot of times in other movies as well. He's kind
of the center of center of gravity. Yeah, and you know,
as as Chaotik and everything that Barbara Streisand's doing in

(13:41):
the way we were in a different way in different circumstances.
Feiffer is that kind of character. I don't know what
I'm to do with my career and should I do this,
should do that? But I'm in love and do I move?
And again I appreciate the broadcast end of it and
that Redford is the center of gravity and and a
lot of times he's like that, you know, and going

(14:01):
back to the start of his career, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
I think at that that kind of thing that he
brings to it, where there's this kind of a weird
level of confidence that also doesn't feel arrogant.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know. It is kind of work perpetually works for him.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I was watching I rewatched Downhill Racer the you you
know it, right.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Havin Gene Hackman's great screen movie. You describe it, GiB I.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Mean, it's a you know, he plays, you know, an
Olympic skier who is you know, I don't know, I
don't know how to describe it exactly, but it's a
it's a late sixties movie, and it's a sports movie,
and it's a and it has a kind of like
quasi documentary feel to it, which I think is beautiful.
And part of that came from the fact that in

(14:51):
order to make the case for making the movie, he
managed to kind of get like fifteen thousand dollars and
go off with a small guerrilla type crew and shoot
at the nineteen sixty eight Winter Olympics and basically just
shot b roll type stuff that they ultimately ended up
using in the movie. But but I think it's a
like the way that the kind of subtle distinctions between

(15:15):
the kind of Redford character that he plays in different movies,
I think is really interesting that he's you know that
it's and that over and over again in like interviews
and stuff like that, he he talks about not wanting
things to get too heroic, not wanting things to get
too you know, like, you know, I like that he

(15:36):
has a certain kind of taste where it comes to
the character that he portrays, and that it's not it's
not as much as you'd think it would be. It's
not all about self aggrandizing stuff. It's not all about
actor ego type stuff that drives a lot of this.
I think he made a lot of like good tasteful
choices about the about the characters that he played and
the kind of character that he could play, and the

(15:58):
way that he could subtly shift.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
His person on and a fit that I completely agree.
And I'm going to bring up the image as well
as because I didn't unfortunately forgot to get it. But
chiek Row even mentions how much he loves what he
and Michael Richie did with the candidate and Peter Boyle
of course candidate as well. And there's a great example

(16:21):
of yeah, he's our hero, but he's he's not a
great guy. I mean he's working around with his twins
and everything, and uh, you know, once and and once
he starts playing the game of a candidate, he gets
sucked into the same problems and everything. Uh. Here a
great shot from the candidate.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, but yeah, I think people don't talk about underrated
director Michael Ritchie you know, like uh, you know, people
don't talk about him that much anymore.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Uh but like, uh, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Those movies, those two movies, like he didn't he did that?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Fuck the movie The Beauty pageant movie set and smile smile,
which I think, yeah, yeah, I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Of smile absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
I didn't want to let yeah, I mean like, uh,
he did, like he was an interesting director like that.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I just feel like people don't talk about there's another
subject for us to cover on a new future. That's
a fair question. I don't know, all right, chat but no,
that's great. But yeah, I love the candidate. And again,
you know, younger audience is Peter Boyle, oh Raymond's dad. Yeah,
and great and as Raymond's dad, but man, Peter bit

(17:37):
Boyle was such a seventies fourth one of a great
Characterractice Show and everything else. Again, another guy that we
could really do a deep dive on his wonderful career.
But he is so great as Redford's campaign manager. And
I again I'm spelling all the movies. Just when he
wins and you know, everyone's surrounding him and he's like, hey, yeah,
what do we do now? I can't hear you. It's like,

(17:58):
all right, now I got the job. I don't know
what the helld do. It is a great ending. It
is a great ending. Yeah, and my mom was just
talking to me about it. Yeah, it's a.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
The Can you hear Zeita scratching back there? That's okay, bothering,
it's not I can put her in the other room. Sorry, Yeah,
she's doing our work for us. For Michael Ritchie, He's like, smile,
there'd but he died bummer twenty years ago or so.
Of course he did in two thousand and one, so
she had done it back then.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
She had done that. Michael Richie, I didn't know he
did fletch. I didn't remember that he did. Oh that's
why he did do flesh. That's true. I mean, and
the cheerleading murdering mom with the Denny Smith Richards. Sure,
so yeah, there you go. Carry's like, no, no, send
the pup away. No, it's totally fine, man, you know that.
We don't care.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
She's just been scratching a lot too much. Later, I
gotta take her the but like, uh yeah, I mean
not to turn it into Michael Richie show, but that
would actually be a good show to do.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Like that's a solid you know, don't believe. I mean,
that was the thing. Everybody. We were going to do
another subject, a couple of different subjects, and then Redford
died and it's like, well we got to cover, right,
I mean just covered Hackman and everything, these these Hollywood
greats when they.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Go iconic and and good too, right, I mean not
you know, somebody who deserves it, like, uh, you know,
and you know, as a director, a lot of his
films don't necessarily like speak to me. I don't think
they're bad movies. I think they're you know, use you know.
But but I'm just you know, uh, like I feel

(19:35):
like his instincts as a director, of the kind of
stories he would tell or whatever, you know, are often
apart from like quiz Show that you sort of glancingly
got out, which I think is great. And it's like,
I mean, and I think several of these movies are
really good movies, but like they also.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Just somehow aren't exactly for me. I don't know, you know,
I mean, River runs through through or whatever. Yeah, that's
all right, good for you, good for you. I don't know. Yeah,
I'll spend a different two hours and ordinary people. I mean,
I'm glad I saw it when I did, But that's

(20:09):
an uncomfortable movie. I never want to rewatch. It's an
uncomfortable movie.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like I think it can also play as not you know,
maybe not as good, maybe a little too earnest and
maybe a little like, you know, to something I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Milagro greet Beanfield War a wonderful and great representation in
that movie, and I'm glad he made it. But again,
glad I saw it, want Tony to see it again.
I mean, quiz show again, can't help but every In fact,
on our Chinoscope show, we covered the quiz show scandals. Yeah,
and and I knew about them prior to the movie.
I mean I saw the old eighties PBS special and

(20:48):
that's where I learned about the quiz shows because by
the seventies, quiz shows were back in full force and
very tame. But I really again except for you know,
except for match Game, but sure. But but the retro
of it all and the early broadcasting days of it
all really appealed to me.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh yeah, oh that sounds great. I actually just think
that that's a pretty great movie across the board the end.
But it also look like we're talking about it just it.
Those are the things I'm interested in. It's you know
that the subject speaks to me. Yeah, but I was interesting, like,
I don't know how much we want to go into
talking about I mostly focused on him as an actor,

(21:30):
Like I am the things I revisited me.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Too, But but like I think that, uh, it's got
off it. I'm gonna have to go put her away.
I'm gonna it's it's fine. Gid truly sounds like it
sounds like reindeer. Okay, great.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
But I did on on his Inside the Actors Studio
interview that he talked about how he didn't really understand
filmmaking particularly well until he became a director, which is weird,
like just the process of stuff, and like he said
that he felt like it would inhibit him as an

(22:13):
actor if he was too deep in the technical side
of how films are.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Made, and.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Like that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I mean I think that you. But on the other hand,
you run into this with actors a lot, right where
they don't they don't really understand how their relationship with
the camera or whatever, and that's somebody else's job. I mean,
it does really seem like it would be important to understand, like,
you know, focal lengths and the distance you are from

(22:41):
the camera and all that sort of stuff and how
you're being presented. I mean, if you're in here. It
doesn't matter what you do with the rest of your body,
you know.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
But but like I think that.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
If but he talked about how like he didn't quite
have like the words for describing the shots that he wanted,
and he was working with John Bailey, he was one
of those kind of you know, great dps of a
certain type and uh, and trying to explain a big,
long tracking shot that he was doing and couldn't and

(23:16):
ended up just sitting down and drawing it out. Because
he had a background in art, he had like initially
wanted to be an artist. Uh, he he drew, I
don't know that. It's actually I was trying to look
up stuff to to like to to feature during this
and I couldn't even find anything. The internet sucks now,
But like and it's actually like it's something I do

(23:37):
a lot. Like if I hear of like somebody who
does something else who's an artist, I'm always trying to
look up what they.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Do, even even George, even George W. Bush, I'm like, all,
let me see his paintings.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
And sure, I mean George W. Bush or you know
Williams or whoever. Yes, in fact, I did that when
you know, but but like I can't find anything, so
I don't know. But but like he said that he
sat down and just basically drew it out like storyboards

(24:08):
to communicate the idea and that like which I obviously
I thought was interesting. It was interesting that he was
not able to articulate this stuff. But you know, but
you know, just himself sitting down and drawing it was
the way that.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
He got the ideas across.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
But yeah, I mean, like, but there's something a little
bit not you know, something that is I mean, he does.
He tries for subtlely subtle sort of people stuff and
I appreciate that directing wise, but I do think that,
you know, he was definitely he's a director worth talking about.

(24:46):
And oh you know what though, I also came into
Ordinary People with a chip on my shoulder because it
beat Raging Bull and because you know, and you know,
because I don't I don't think it's anywhere near as.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Going to a movie as Raging Well. That's that classic.
It won Best Picture, but it's the one that didn't
win that we remember better.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Right, Well, that's because all of you know, yeah, there's
a simple answer to that. All Best Picture nominees are
bad or winners are bad. Not all nominees are bad,
but like almost everyone that's not true, but a lot
of them.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
But on the last time anyone spoke about the artist,
which one best picture? You know, can't loads you know,
even one that I like, like breaking Away?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Sure, yeah, you know, I mean I feel like there's
a little bit more to breaking Away than or at
least it has a little bit. It lasted a little
bit longer than some of these that yeah, you never
even well, I feel like it was something that people
were still talking about over not now, but like you know,
for a while after and as opposed to something like

(25:47):
whatever Crash or or whatever that just disappears, you know,
I mean, Crash is one of the worst movies ever
ever to win an Oscar.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
So you know that's great. Hey, let's go back to classics.
Greatest show on Earth.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Sure, yeah, bad movie, too bad movie that was given
the award politically right, like it was a it was
a fraud political time. They didn't want to do anything controversial,
so they basically just gave the Oscar to the the
kind of big dumb thing that you know, everybody could go,
I guess that's a good movie. You know, I mean,
like you know, but I mean not that that movie

(26:21):
is terrible. I mean it's dopey, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's it's a big budget and big cast and it's
The Mill. The Mill.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, so stupid, right, like you didn't make smart movies.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Wow? Man, there you go. That's a I gave. I
completely agree and them just pointing out that this is
the kind of movie show that we do on cecil
B The Mill, and we praised Michael Ritchie. That's all
you need to know, and we do and we do
a retrospective on our jear departed Henry Silva.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I feel like if people are people can like cecil
B De Mill movies and acknowledge they're stupid. You know,
they're not big sophisticated. They're big and they're not that
bright and that's the point of them.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
You know. I love it. That's fantastic. I do want
to go back to his TV years and this is
kind of obvious, but his wonderful episode of the Twilight
Side's really good. Yeah, and shame on me, I didn't
look up the actress's name who is the star? But
kind of again in that same way with way we

(27:29):
were or up close and personal. He is so great. Hey,
you can't take your eyes off him. But and this
is such young raw Redford, and it's that Redford center
of gravity quality that still comes through and especially and
why am I not spoiling this with the way I've
been spoiling all the movies. Yeah, but shall we say?

(27:50):
I mean, you know, he ends up being I think
most people, you know, Yeah, you know, he's she's afraid.
She's afraid of leaving, leaving her home, and as she's
getting older, she's afraid of dying and all of this,
doesn't like to even open the door for the postman
or anybody. And all of a sudden, this young man
slips on the ice in front of her house and
hurts his back and he's like, come on, I'm helpless.

(28:11):
You got to help me. So she brings him in
and yeah, and well I forget that he was a cop,
but yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You know, I think that's right, and uh and like
he uh and her her building is going to be
torn down and so she's being evicted and uh, you know, but.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, the worst circumstances. And then it turns out that
you know, and she's she's afraid of dying, and it
turns out he's the Angel of Death. Yeah. Yeah, And
and it's so much more poignant than Meet Joe Black,
you know, disrespect to everybody who made Meet Joe Black. Sure,
I mean, you know, Death takes a Holiday. The original
Frederick March movie much better than although very very old

(28:50):
and very creaky, and this is.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Actually like, uh, I mean, you know, I'm dumb for
not remembering all the details because I literally just watched it.
But the uh, oh it's Gladys Cooper who plays a woman. Yes, indeed,
that was in uh Zita stop it s the the
I'm concerned bothering you man, bother me? Sorry, but uh

(29:16):
the uh you know, she was in a million things.
She was in Rebecca and you know, My Fair Lady
and Song of Bernadette and stuff like that, and uh
but like, I think that's like one of the best.
Like I I'm I'm you know, I'm not a terrible person.
I love the Twilight Zone, right, but I don't think
that the uh that they're always super well made. It's

(29:39):
a TV show. They made a million of them, it's not,
you know, but I think that one is working on
all like levels, right, and again, the writing is great,
the director is great.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
You know, yes, it's Lamon Johnson directing is one of
the better Zone directors. And of course the great George
Clayton Johnson, who Andy Parks and I had the pleasure
of meeting before he passed. Cool and an incredible thrill
to me, one of the original Twilight Zone writers. Like that. Yeah, yeah,
so no, it's a great And also his speech about
death and see it wasn't Ben it's a whisper, it's nothing,

(30:12):
and you just the sincerity in that moment. Yeah, it's
just really beautiful.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
And it's it's it's doing the thing in a way
that was rarely done for the rest of his career
where he's being uh, they're using him being so kind
of beautiful in his kind of the center of gravity
you call call it. And as a counterpoint to the
to the context, right, you know, like we're talking about death,

(30:41):
we're talking about you know, about dark stuff in a
lot of ways, and the fact that he has this
kind of presence to him, you know, he already has
this kind of quasi movie star prim presence. I think
that that I think that like there's a lot of
he was in a lot of good stuff it's one

(31:02):
of the best things. I think it's a really really
good piece of work.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Completely agree, completely agree, absolutely man, And now again. Another
guilty pleasure that I know you and I disagree about is,
of course Barefoot in the Park.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, the you know better a guilty pleasure. People love
that movie, right, it's just me. I'm the only one.
I love it, Okay, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
I honestly don't know either, because a lot of sixties
movies will get a misogyny tag or whatever and change
that the reason I don't like No, I I want
to hear it. But I'm just saying that in general,
I think a lot of those love movies from the sixties, yeah,
don't don't hold up well by today's social standards, and

(31:45):
that the issue with this well and likely so. But
I love Mildred net Wick as her mother, and I
always love Mildred that Wick. Charles Boyer does a great
job in it, as well as the Agingario. I do
think Jane looks great in the movie, and it's you know,
a good, good young thing. And again kind of I mean,

(32:07):
obviously more gravitas in the Zone episode, but I like
I like young raw Redford and he's raw kind of
in this to me. I agree.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
I agree, And you know, the reason I the real
reason behind me not liking it is is the thing
that makes me more unpopular than just any of the
other things. It's that I don't love Neil Simon and
I think it's sitcomy, like I just don't find it funny.
I find it real forced, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
And well you do know that they made two different
versions of Barefoot in the Park as television shows. There
was a white couple and I know it was called
Love on a Rooftop and then you know, in that
same weird way, and forgive the tangent everybody, but you know,
when a night Gallery was put in syndication, they also

(32:55):
fed episodes of this Gary Collins ESP show called the
sixth Cent, okay, and it's part of the syndication package.
And Serling did wrap arounds just like you did the
regular night galleries, but they clearly were from this TV
show and in the same way love American style, they
used to do a version of Love on the Rooftop

(33:18):
and it was a black couple, okay, and the same
dynamics as you know, Redford and Fonda or Elizabeth Ashley
and Redford in the stage version. Of course, you know,
got to show that.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I know, my saw the stage version was a kind
of a big deal and Mike Nichols directed it and
it was like an influential Broadway thing and Neil Simon
and all that.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, and it led to the odd couple with Simon
and Nichols again.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Ye, but I'm just I don't think that it like
for me, it's like, and look, this is not about
it being old. I am if anybody who talks to
me knows that, I will, you know, I and I
love comedies from all eras, right, Like I'm a huge
fan of you know, you know Capra and Preston Sturgis

(34:01):
and then you know whatever. But like, but it does
if the writing feels sit comy to me, and the
and the and and a lot of it comes off force.
There's not a light touch in the movie, a light
enough touch in the movie, and it's like it's just
kind of shot flat. It's the you know, they're doing

(34:24):
too much. It's like, you know, it just I think
that everyone involves could be Like I think there's a
better movie that another director would have made, maybe even
Mike Nichols, you know, but uh, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I don't remember. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
I know Gene Sacks directed Odd Couple, but I don't
know who directed. Yeah, once again that chat help us out.
You're watching you Got Free Hands.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
But but I know it's it's I mean, but I
think that I wouldn't get past the the the it
is Gene Sacks as well.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Like yet I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I wouldn't get past I I'm just the villain who
doesn't love uh and has never really loved Neil Simon.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
I like, I just don't it don't connect with the
stuff if it feels well. And I mean, I'm not
ready to open its entire IMDb, but I have a
feeling Gene sets did just as much television as he
did do film. Oh yeah, I mean he's he seems
like a journey that I'm he's a jabber. It's cool,
you know, but yeah, that's funny. No, I well, I
love when we stumble out of stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
A movie I watched for this that doesn't it's Redford
doesn't star in it. It's from sixty six. It's from
the year before the Chase. Have you seen this?

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I have not talked to him.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Okay, So, like it's Arthur Penn and it's uh, and
it's a kind of sprawy sort of.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
I believe it's it's based on god, h you're seeing
me not having enough time to do all my notes. Sorry, right,
the it's it's based on.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
A Horton Foot novel and play and Lillian Hellman wrote
the script and the screenplay and and Arthur Penn directed it,
and brand O's in it. He plays and it's like
a small town, like small southern town the uh and.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
And Redford plays kind of like a town ne'er do
well who keeps going to jail and he got you know,
and he busts out and he's on the run. And
so he's kind of on the run for the entire
movie while other stuff with you know, various characters, melodramatic
stuff with various characters is happening in town. And but
it's one of those movies where his his part isn't huge,

(36:40):
although he's at the beginning in the end, he's throughout it.
But but it's one of those uh, you know, it's
the everybody brings it up, but the Orson well or
maybe it's just me who brings it up all the time.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
I don't know the Orson.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Wells thing about about the play mister Wu, where like
mister Wu never shows up until like, you know, the
the curtain call or whatever, and then everybody's like, oh,
mister Wu is fantastic. Because everybody talked about mister Wu
the entire tier. I feel like he's a main character
and the and this movie is like that, Like everybody
talks about him in you know, his character for the

(37:16):
entire movie. So it's like even though he's not on
screen all the time, you know, and he does give
a good performance in it, it's more like and his
name is Bubber Reeves b u b b e Er,
so they're always talking about Bubber. And but I think

(37:37):
it's a movie that i'd never seen before. Iver you know,
I'm sort of aware of it, but but I actually
found myself really enjoying it. There's some the only the
bad parts about it are kind of that it's a
contemporary movie set in nineteen sixty six, and some of
the kind of like and like Paul Williams plays one
of the teenagers, and like, and there's a little bit

(37:57):
of that kind of cheeseball sixties like we don't understand
the youth type stuff in it. But but like, uh,
but I thought it was actually a pretty good movie.
I enjoyed it, like I was surprised.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
It was just I just thought.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
And it's I think it's it's streaming on something. It's
on two B or on Pluto or something like that.
It's streaming freeze. Okay, so I recommend it. I recommend
checking it out.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
It's it's you know, I'm very ignorant other than Reflections
of the Golden Eye and Bedtime Story, which is the
original Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with Brando and David Niven and
Shirlie Jones. I I'm kind of ignorant about sixties Brando
again with yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Well sixties brand O gets you know, yeah, like are
not good, Like it's an interesting I mean, including reflection
as a Golden Eye, like you know, yes, you know,
but well, I'm just puzzling choices.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah. Well, even that one that he made with Rita
Moreno and I can't remember the name of it where
he looks amazing he really I mean that, and it's
only like two years before Godfather but I mean it's
he is beautiful and hip. I mean, yeah, looks late
sixties cool and beautiful on everything. Mike Cronembert, one of
my buddies, is a big brand ow nut and is

(39:14):
happy to tell you about like movies like that. And
I know sadly Rita Moreno did not have a experience
as his girlfriend and on the movie so much for that.
Carrie has a comment and says that sounds like mister
Kurtzen Heart of Darkness, main character that only shows up
at the very end. Sure as far as.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, sure, I mean like really just that, I mean
I think that that. Here's the thing I've been thinking
about actors a lot like that. I've been making this
short film in casting, and like there's a thing where
where actors will look a look at a script and
go and judging by the amount of lines they have, right,
and and like judge their part by the amount of
lines they have, And this I think this is a

(39:55):
misunderstanding for some actors, right. I think that, like if
I think, think the smart actor looks at it and goes,
how often are people talking about me? You know, like
you know, because you can have a relatively small part,
but if other people are talking about you when you're
off camera, you're a very You're you're in the audience's mind.

(40:16):
You're there, right, So like, uh it, you know it,
just counting lines isn't going to tell you how important
your character isn't it. You know, you can have a
character with a bunch of you know, with with more
more lines, more more scenes. That is a more recessive
character that doesn't make me impact. But building everybody else,

(40:38):
building you up is as important as anything.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, Parker says, And I'm sorry Parker hasn't with us
tonight dairy Lime rule. Yeah, and Jack Grow which is
you well on your short film that you're making. Cool,
Thank you. I appreciate it, very cool. And uh yeah, no,
that's true. Also a Chi Kuroh is wondering and another
great filmmaker that we could likely do a great show about.
He wants to know if we've seen Grow Baker directed
by Story Rosenberg. You know I have.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
I didn't get to revisit it for this, so I
don't like it, but I have new thoughts.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
But yeah, but but it is. Yeah, I mean I
certainly remember seeing it and loving it both in the
theater and on VHS when I watched, Yeah, I remember
being a good movie. It's Rosenberg, my god, not only
cool hand Luke that Chiku Roh points out, but you
know Papa grine Village. I mean, you know he's He's
one of my favorites. And I think.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I'm pretty sure he directed a movie that's not exactly
Guilty Pleasure because I love it. But let me just
before I make it sure idiot or myself. Pocket Money.
This movie Pocket Money with with Lee Marvin Paul Newman
and which and which Terrence Malick wrote, right, but it's

(41:50):
basically a comedy and h like which you don't associated
with Terrence Malick, but he but he wrote like two
goofball movies that that that Pocket Money and dead Head Miles,
which are two super weird dead Head Miles with with
Alan Arkin in it, uh like, which is super obscure.

(42:13):
It's hard to find. I've only ever seen a bootleg
of it. But but like, uh, it's full of so
many odd ball little things. I mean, there's this moment
in Pocket Money where that I think about literally all
the time. Uh where and forgive me if I'm getting
some of the details of it wrong, But like, there's

(42:34):
a thing where they're facing off against uh, you know,
like some guy threatening over there on like you know,
like in the street, sort of facing down and and
I think it's Paul Newman picks up picks up a
rock and throws it, but it comes nowhere near hitting
the guy right, And Marvin's like, what why do you
do that for? And he's like, well, now every time

(42:55):
he sees a rock, he's gonna think of me. And
it's like, that's one of the greatest ideas as ever
like in movies.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I like, that's excellent, that's right.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I agree that we could definitely do a Stuart ros.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
That'd be amazing. Absolutely, Again, we got to keep the
short list. It's not a short list anymore. My god.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
We got like getting but yeah, we should keep up
with this.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, absolutely, man, No, and don't worry, Parker. I swear
we're gonna get to Night of the Hunter. We were
planning on doing Night of the Hunter and then we're
gonna do Night of the Hunter next. I believe it's true.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
We were, you know, we we got a little derailed
by it.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, way to go, Bob, Yeah, exactly. Obviously we have
to give it up to him for sun Dance and
the creation of that, the awareness that it brings to
independent film wonderful, wonderful things. So that's cool. Uh. And
then you know there's the also rants. When Gabe and
I were texting about Redford, I'm like, I gotta be honest,
I don't give a shit about Jeremiah Johnson. I really don't.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Oh right, So I did rewatch Jeremiah Johnson, which I
didn't really think of as a movie that I liked,
and I'm still a.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Little bit on the fence about it, honestly.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
But the fact that john has this visceral hatred of
not only Jeremiah Johnson, but literally any movie that takes
place in the wilderness, that's a weird personal phobia.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
That job. What was what was the movie that What
was the movie that I would win the Oscar for
in the last couple of years. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
could have cared less, could have cared less. But that said, like,
like as we've talked about before, Seven Men from Now,
that's an outdoors movie.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, that's what I think, like Western, Oh, that's the thing,
and I love that's And then what's the distance I
didn't want to get? I want to drill down into
what the difference is.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I'm happy to There's there's westerns and then there's wilderness movies. Okay,
I don't like the wilderness movies. I don't think. No,
I couldn't have figured that part. But like, why is
the I don't know, man man against the elements in
that way, I get bored. I get bored. I wish,
you know, I wish.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's the part about it that I think is a
little bit of a fatal flaw in the movie. This
guy asked for all this shit, Like he just deliberately
went out there, and like when things go bad for
him out in the wilderness, he just wanted to go
out and like be a man and live in the
wilderness and trap beavers or whatever, right, and like I

(45:21):
and you know, and it's and then terrible tragic things happen.
But it's kind of like, dude, you asked for this,
Like nobody forced you to go out in the fucking wilderness,
you know, but you know, like I. But at the
same time, I thought that was actually a lot of
interesting stuff about it. It struck me as better than
I thought. It's another Sidney Pollock movie, and I look,

(45:44):
I think I kind of love Sidney Pollack as an actor.
I think he's kind of all over the place as
a director sometimes, like sometimes he's made.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Great movies and there's some not great movies.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
But but like two Sidney Pollack movies were way better
than I remembered them being the way we were and
Jeremiah Johnson and I and I did like, I mean,
there was a lot about it. I liked this twofold thing.
It's like and these are things that are just tough.
I mean, if you're just taking it on its own
terms and not thinking of at all, I get it,

(46:18):
but like not you, but one the audience member, But.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Like I don't.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
There's both the you asked for it aspect of it,
and there's also just you know, this is an issue
with all Westerns in some way, but more so with
one of these wilderness type movies of that time, where like, look,
he's the villain, Like the native people are the heroes
and he's the villain. He's the one who's invading their

(46:43):
land and trying to you know, and doing you know,
and killing the animals that they would hunt and you know,
and like trying to take over and stuff that's not
a hero. Like in any circumstance, the guy who comes
like people live someplace, some asshole comes in and starts
like killing them and taking their shit.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
That's not the good.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Guy in the movie. So like it's it is a
little hard for me to reconcile that. I mean, it's
hard not to think about, well, those people live there,
leave them alone.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
You know. I again, I understand and and different perspective
back then. Now, that's interesting, Lieber says, of course An
already put up the comment. But for the audio audience,
he says, Jeremiah Johnson inspired one of his favorite William
Messer Loeb's comics, Journey. Didn't know about that.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Gkuro wants to know. Am I not a fan of
Jack London. I'll tell you well, first of all, I'm
not a fan of his politics, unfortunately, but Jack London's
been a good Wait, what.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Do you hate about Jack London's politicy? Too big of
a dirty red comedy for you?

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Well? Am I missed? Am I forgetting and am I
mixing him up with another writer? But at the turn
of the century, he was a sports writer for a
time and was very anti Jack Johnson. When Jack Johnson
Fudge and Jeffries. I believe that was Jack London. You
know about that, I don't know, and even wrote I'm
reasonably certain of that if and folks please correct me

(48:06):
if I'm wrong in the chat. I'm happy to be wrong,
but I do know, and I'm reasonably certain it was London.
I know that Hemingway also had his share of sports
writing as well, but didn't have that issue. But I'm
pretty certain it was London. And it's pre called the
wild White fang, et cetera and everything. I'm aware of it.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think you're right about so you're
thinking he was a racist?

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Is that well as much as most white people work.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Within the context of the times. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
you know.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Second class citizens and you know Jet black Man Beach.
I really do.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I mean, I love Jack London stuff like I uh
like and uh and I but look, I do, I
do think there's compelling stuff about the kind of people
against the you know, elements against the element stuff. But
but I do, I mean, but I think I think
there's more about Jack london work that that you know

(49:02):
that's resident for me then Jared Johnson. But but like,
I mean, look, I worked on that uh call the
Wild movie from a couple of years ago, only because
I love Jack London. And then by the time I
got into it, it's like, so they're all cartoons what what.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Like? You know, remind me who was in it?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Harrison Ford was in it, but like it was it
died to death at the box ups, I think three
years ago, like or the Pandemic I worked on well,
I mean, I guess I was around in the nineties,
but like noa but gay, but.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
I usually didn't like Ray.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
It was uh an animation guy crazy, who's super great,
who's super nice guy? But but the but it was
I didn't connect with the fact that it was basically
apart from the live action actors of fully t G
movie that was way too over the top and was
trying too hard to.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Be like something that it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
And uh and I love the kind of I do
love the kind of you know, uh, elemental quality of
the of the Jack London stuff that is not served
by big, ridiculous, over the.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Top things I like. I like Sea Wolf with Edward G. Robbins.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Seawolf Sea Wolf is great self. The book is amazing, yes, yes,
And I remember and and yeah. And the and the
movie is pretty good too. It's a good movie, pretty
good adaptation. Yes, totally worth. Look, I feel like everybody
should read that book right now. It's an anti fascist book.
It's like, uh, it's you know, played out as drama,

(50:42):
you know, and which is the way to tell a story.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
And ironically g Guro says that Jack London was a socialist,
but George Orwell felt there was a fascist element to
his work. Okay, again, that's that's an or Well observation.
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I mean, you know, however, or Well was Orwell was
an AI communist. I mean or Well, you know, like
he was, That's what he was. I mean I don't
necessarily even disagree with him. But then but the but
like the but he he was, you know, he's ideologically
driven in that comment, right, because all right.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
I'm gonna here's another obvious one of Redford getting it
back to the Redford of it all. I gotta say,
obviously it's it is probably my favorite Redford movie, and
that's Three Days of the Condor. Here he is with
Cliff Robertson. But more importantly, again one of these guys
that is just hovering in the movie until the near
near the end, the great Max Foncito as Jobert Sure

(51:36):
the assassin Gabe. I'm sure I've told you before too.
If I could draw, I would be writing and drawing
Jobert inspired adventures. Sure of an international hitman that has
that uh you know, I don't know if and I
forget the the international creator that made the killer and
perhaps he's inspired. Oh sure, yeah, I can't remember the

(51:58):
name of Bye Bye. See how in Condo. Also, I
blew it man years ago and didn't put two and
two together because I didn't know about this actor's time
in The Untouchables or Car fifty four. Where are you
but Hank Garrett, who plays the hitman Postman that Redford

(52:19):
as the great Judo scene with and everything. He was
at a memorabilia show where I also met Robert Vaughn,
who I was well aware of his career, and Margaret
O'Sullivan was there, which was amazing, and the British fifties
pin up model June Wilkinson was there and she was lovely.
Stella Stevens was there, and I spoke to Hank Garrett

(52:39):
and I knew about Condor, but I didn't know about
Car fifty four and The Untouchables and yeah, the guy
was and he had he had great action shots, likely
from the lobby cards that he would sign and I
mean I didn't get one, but I was lovely talking
to the guy. And there's you know, there's a guy
who's literally in two scenes and just amazing. But Cliff

(53:01):
Robertson is so great in the movie as well. Yeah,
and it's just it's just a brilliant and I think
it's a movie that still makes sense today. Yeah, it's
it is a really good movie.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
I mean, I think there's some my last watch of it,
I felt like maybe the I didn't feel like, uh,
it's a done away right, like uh yeah, and I
didn't feel like their chemistry worked as well as it
could have in my last watch of it. But I
think it's a great movie. I mean, I I I
really enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
The I did one of the things.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I mean, I you know, I'm not I'm not exactly
known for for watching newer things, but like, but I did.
Uh and by new, I'm talking about something from thirty
five years ago.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
But The Sneakers I watched that because there's there's another
movie that I don't think colds up and but I
haven't seen it in a long time. In fairness, I
thought up way better than I thought it would.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
I thought it would be terrible, right, And uh, but
I think that it weirdly like even though it deals
with technology and stuff like that that is dated, it's uh,
there is a surprisingly kind of light touch to it,
and there's a charm, a real charm to it in
a way that.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I really didn't think would be the case.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Like, I, you know, I just wanted to watch something
from the nineties and I had recently enough seen indecent
proposal to not fucking watch it again, and uh the
so like, but I actually thought, like, it's not it's
not some brilliant movie. But I, you know, I would
be surprised if you didn't enjoy it more than you

(54:44):
expected to if you you rewatched it. It's really reminds
us a light charm to it. Sidney Poidiers and Phoenix
River Phoenix. What's his name from good Night and good Luck?

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Uh? David Strath Aaron Strat And can I forget his name?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Uh? You know it's weirdly dan ackroyd Uh and uh,
it's it like I don't know I thought that I
don't think it's a brilliant movie, but uh, but there
was a sort of light touch to it that I liked.
The guy who made it, Phil Robinson phill Out Alden
Robinson was I think he made uh.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
The one the Field of Dreams, uh and uh And.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I worked with him one time actually on a movie
that well, a movie that got made but just not
with him or me.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Uh. It was Thirteen Days was called uh yeah, so
like about the missile Crisis.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
And yeah, I actually think it would have been a
better movie if Phil had made it. I you know,
nothing wrong with the movie that I thought the movie
was pretty good, right.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
One of my favorite two thousands movies.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
But but like I worked on it for a few
months with Phil, who was a real like kind of
you know, an odd guy for a director. He not
great at like you know, he come from being a screenwriter,
not great at like focusing on a lot of things
at the same time, he'd be super you know, he'd
need to like super focus in on things. But but
he but he was kind of smart and had kind

(56:15):
of nuanced approach to stuff that like, I don't know,
always came across in the movies that he made. But like, uh,
but but I was more impressed. I thought Sneakers was
more fun than I than I expected.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Okay, because honestly the other thing, too, is again how
how far we've progressed from the digital age?

Speaker 2 (56:33):
For Yeah, but honestly, I don't think that that's that
big of a deal. I mean, for the thing it's happening,
it's a period movie. It's happening when it's happening. But
the but it's also kind of like what what it's
about is not irrelevant, you know, like the thematically it's
not irrelevant.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Okay, No, that's the.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
I also watched The Old Man and the Gun. Yes,
one of the later almost basically his last lead.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
I couldn't remember it was that or All Is Lost
was the last one.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
But All Lost I think was a little before it.
I like All His Lost a lot.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Actually I was a billion movie. Yeah, brilliant movie, but
very depressed. That's okay. I don't know that. Like, but
I'm I'm a west When it comes to that ship,
you know, I.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Feel like you shouldn't like it because it's like the
ocean is a wilderness.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah, and again I don't know why, but ocean movies
are my exception, all right, although Old Man in the Sea,
as great as it is with Tracy, is a little
well that's to get through. I don't think that's great.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
But the but like I really like that off movie.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah, But talking about Old Man in the Gun, Old
Man the Gun was pretty good, Like I it was not.
I wouldn't say it was perfect or there was a
lot of depth to it. Like it was.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
It was pretty slight in a lot of way, but
you know, charming slight, you know. And and I thought,
you know, even though I'm pretty sure that he was
supposed to be playing a sixty seven year old and
he was in his early eighties, you know, it like it, it.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Did kind of work.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
He's real old, but like he still has a kind
of charm to him in a way that he could,
you know, and he was able to play that. And
you know, he plays a kind of you know, a
bank robber basically just gets by on his charm and
and frequently got you know, got caught and would one
way or another escape over and over again. And Sissy

(58:37):
Spasic is in it as a kind of love interest,
and and Casey Affleck plays the cop who's trying to
track him down, but actually like some of the things
that it did that were self consciously seventies style, things
like the Casey Affleck character not actually being the one
who catches him or be and isn't really exactly decisive,

(58:59):
and stuff like you know, kind of you know, heading
towards something cliche and overting being being.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I'm not thinking of the word, but you know, like
changing things up.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I you know, I thought it was totally watchable, totally enjoyable,
not a you know, it didn't you know, a slight
movie in a lot of ways, but you know.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Not a bad movie to go out. Yeah, it's so fun.
That's I mean, he was probably in.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Like Avengers or something after that. But then but the
character type movie.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Yeah, I think it was after Adventures. I'm reasonably certain
it was. And that's fine, and you know, hey, listen,
it was fun because all of us had Condor in
our minds when we saw Winter Soldier.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
So it was really great that well, I mean I did,
and it worked against that not very good movie. But
you guys all love it, so you can live over
there loving it.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
It's fine. But again that he seems to be an
ally to the heroes and villain and that we get
and again he's pitching under hand. I totally understand.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
It's not he's not, he's not. That movie is the
people who made that movie, who are not skilled filmakers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
But what it's fine. So that's game's recommendation for a
day coming here when next year. Oh I didn't even
tell you that one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I'm talking about Winters that's not out yet.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
That's that's that's that's the right, right right, followed my
Secret War in twenty seven. No, no, well, I'll give
you like and and I think he squeaked in and
was credible and it's a good two hander. Uh Tony
Tony Scott's Spy Game with Brad Pitt and oh right, yes,
another guilty pleasure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
I almost worked on that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Oh ship, Yeah wow?

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Like what happened was uh it like it was for
some reason I was at common the con and I
didn't get the message, like I got a call for it.
I was a comic con. I somehow missed that. I
that I got the message, and uh, you know, uh

(01:01:11):
and then uh, by the time I called him back,
somebody else had got the gig. So like, but which
is not an interesting story. But I had a slight
interaction with that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
All right, fair enough, and I again, I and I
don't normally like a lot of Tony Scott's movies. They're fine,
it's not my thing. But he's people love him. It's
not mostly sure no, And again, you know, I mean
obviously credible action director and everything. And I mean that's
what people say.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
I mean not to me, but I mean because I
think that what I and look, everybody can love Tony Scott,
that's great. I'm not I'm not really shitting on Tony Scott,
like it's just my taste. And you know, uh and
pointing like ten cameras at something and covering it to all,

(01:02:03):
you know, to hell is not great action filmmaking. To me,
great action filmmaking is making clear choices, building the suspense, doing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
You know, and like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
There's an indiscriminated quality to Tony Scott movies that I
don't love and other people do. That's great, But I
feel like he's a shooter who doesn't think through what's
going on deeply enough to really exploit what's great in
a scene.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Gab, I'm gonna ask you to take over because unfortunately
Streamyard has been buggy and my audio dropped out. Oh okay,
I couldn't hear you for the last thirty seconds or
so okay, which is why I might have looked blank
or confused. I'm gonna sign out and come back in.
You keep going here. Here's a comment that Lieber has

(01:02:57):
apparently Redford's last scene partner, George R. R. Martin, in
a shot in a short scene in Dark Winds. Well,
I don't know about that, but but I did not
see that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
I noticed that as the one of the last the
last things on his his IMDb. But but yeah, I mean,
I uh, I think that the that late late old
man Redford had had a kind of like uh interesting
quality to him. I mean it feels like, you know,
he certainly worked later than a lot of people did.

(01:03:32):
Although now I mean I guess like Harrison is still
working like he's you know, eighty in his early eighties,
and uh, you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Know this is this is more of a thing these days.
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Now I have to, like Vamp, I'm just by myself,
Like John Left, I don't have anybody to talk to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Zita's restless. Are you back? Can people hear? You know?
I am I hope I'm not echoing. I don't he
or any acto. Excellent, all right, because i abandoned my
earbuds and now I've got you on my external speaker. Yeah.
I don't know what that has been going on lately,
but there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
I covered all the movies that I was going to cover,
but okay, there's a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Couple and I'm bummed. I guess you really have to
dig to find his uh and get the DV days
of the old Doctor Kill Dare series. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I tried to look for this and I couldn't find
it either.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's a shame because he was on
twice and the second time he was on he was
kind of a cocky young doctor that would be killed.
There's obviously opposite. And again it's kind of like when
we were talking about Hackman in some of his early
TV and stuff that it's it's it's one note, but

(01:04:49):
again kind of like in I mean in the Zone
episode and performance much more nuanced, but you can't help
but pay attention to the guy. And I mean that's back,
you know, in Richard Chamberlain's prime. So you have he's
two Matt and Idle, you know, guys and two Golden
Boys literally and everything. So I find that interesting. And
then we could only find it a seven minute scene

(01:05:10):
that he did in a great rod Sterling. I believe
it was Playhouse ninety. It was one of the anthology shows.
I'm sure we would have covered it if we could
find the full kinescope because I've been aware of it
for decades. In fact, when they made the one at
Serling PBS, they acknowledge it and everything, and it's in
the presence of Mine Enemies and it's him and Charles

(01:05:31):
Lawton and a great cast and he's a young Nazi
officer and he's terrific.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
In Yeah, I really wish that I could have seen that,
Like I tried to track it down. If I just
had more time right now, I might have gone over
to Pailey Center and washing it or something. But the
but like, but it's probably where. Yeah, that seems like
an interesting thing. I mean, like whether it's great or not,
I don't know, but there's enough elements there that I
would just like to see it, you know. I Mean
it's and it's our basically our kinescope territory too, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, Jake Carrol Nash did one season, and I don't know,
maybe it would be problematic to do now, but he
had a radio show that was very popular called Life
with Luigi. It was about an Italian immigrant who comes
to America and is really one of these gung ho god,
I can't believe in this, I'm in this planet of opportunity.

(01:06:19):
But he's learning the culture and it's kind of classic
sitcom kind of Alan Reid plays his pascually, who's his
best Italian friend who kind of leads them astray and listen,
they're doing Chico Mark's kind of Italian and maybe that
would be problematic. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I don't think that that would be problematic. I think
the only thing that would be problematic about it is
the just inherent sadness that the you know that that
at one point it was a it was a world
of opportunity and you know, or this this country of
opportunity and that that's long.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yeah, and it's a shame because it was a very
funny radio show. It only lasted one season on T
Give You, But I found a kinescope of it from
fifty two, and every now and then I find other
kinscopes and it's like yeah, interesting, yeah, if gable words,
we can always go back to that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
I have no issue with going back to Keniscope. I mean,
I uh, and you know, certainly doing canoscope episodes if
if we wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
To, I mean, you know, we don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
We don't have to do things that people are interested in, right,
like we could just do things that only we are
interested in. I mean that's I mean, I don't know,
there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Well, again, I am so pleased and really an opportunity
to thank my word balloon an audience for hanging with
these kinds of shows. So when I do sports or
when I have my Chicago radio buddies on and we
talk about the old days, that we go beyond the
nerd stuff. It's a different kind of nerd stuff, if.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
You okay, we got to talk about the natural though,
yes I speak so yes, the uh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
I think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Garbage anyway, moving on, No, that's no, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I don't uh what I like it. I do like it.
I didn't. I only seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I only saw it when I was a kid in
the theater and this week so like, uh, I don't
know why. It's just one of those movies that I
never got back to again. And uh, and like I
think that it's it was surprisingly disjointed of a movie
in some ways, the way that it works, the the

(01:08:30):
you know, the early stuff him getting shot uh, you know,
by Karen no by Barbara Hershey uh, and the you know,
and then cutting later and his career later. I mean,
I it's hard for me not to think, why why
why have the beginning of this movie at all? Like,
why is this movie not just starting with him as

(01:08:52):
an older guy, you know, getting back into it and
then we learn about that stuff and it's you know,
and it comes through dialogue and through character and you know.
Uh and instead of the kind of weirdly herky jerky
beginning of it where he's playing a much younger character
less convincingly, she shoots him for no reason, which is

(01:09:13):
part of it, you know, but but like and it's
not it's not a bad thing within the story. But
I didn't have our time understanding why we spent the
time on that at the beginning when the drama is
him coming back to it and yeah, and we also
are gonna find out about all that shit again over
the course of the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
You know, it would have. It would have worked without
that stuff or in in shorter flashback sequences.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I can appreciate, Yeah, if it were building something, Yeah, yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
I just don't know that. I don't think it helped them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
I know, this is an unpopular, unpopular opinion to criticize
the movie at all, But it was odd to me
that that that I don't feel like that worked as
well as it could have. But but yeah, look it's
also Caleb Daschanel shot it. It's an unbelievably beautiful looking movie.
Like it is that the the shot where he sees
Glenn close in the in the stands and uh and

(01:10:06):
she is backlit just by that one shaft of light
where it's just like, I don't think they live that.
I think that's the sun right like and I and
it's you know, and like that means they had to
have like scouted that figured out that just that one
thing at that one time would work. It's just such
incredibly beautifully made movie in that way. It's uh, you know,

(01:10:29):
the you know, and all the all the sappy stuff
still kind of works, you know, and uh, you know,
it's like I like the movie. I mean, I I
also think that it ends a little abruptly in a
way that isn't as satisfying as it could. No, it's
final run and all that sort of stuff, just the like,
oh and cut to he's playing ball with the kid.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
In the field. The end with the sun. Yeah, yeah, happy,
you know, And that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
It's not bad that it's a happy ending. I felt
like it was a little abrupt, but you know, but like, uh,
but there's loads of it that's that works.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
It's a lot of it. It's it's I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
I'm saying. All I'm saying is I saw it as
a kid. It made an impression on me as a kid,
and I'm coming back to it after many, many years.
So I'm just looking at it differently than somebody who's
watched a hundred thousand times.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Over the years. I watch it. I literally watch it
every year. I'm sure it's gonna be on as we
hit the postseason of baseball. I think it's wonderfully cast.
Joe don Baker's great as the whammer, sure, our favorite,
Darren McGavin is amazing, he's great. Rosky as amazing as
the even And now I'm blanket. It's what's her face?

(01:11:38):
It's Alf Baldwin's ex wife, who's Yeah, basic basing is great.
Uh and of course, uh, just for me the moment,
the line, the moment and the line of the movie
when Glenn Crust says what happened to you and he goes,
my life didn't turn out the way I expect? And
it's great because it really he adds the right look
on his face. Yeah, that is the movie right there

(01:12:00):
at playing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
A little bit of one of these characters over and
over again, are kind of shallow guys that he imbues
with a kind of you know, a feeling of death
just from the kind of performance that he's giving, you know,
like you don't like. I feel like a lot of
the characters he plays, if somebody else played them, I

(01:12:23):
would just dislike them in the movie, or I would
find them boring or something like that. And I think
that he is bringing something very particular and unique through
his kind of movie star charm and stuff. And there
are those people that like just are movie stars, they're
a movie star in real life. My mom was talking

(01:12:44):
about how like she was at an event where he
was at in Santa Fe or something like that, and
like she didn't talk to him. But at one point
they were both out. I'm telling her story, but like,
but they were just both outside, you know, in the
patio or whatever, and he was by himself or whatever,
and she wasn't going to bother him. But he looked
over and smiled and gave her the Robert Redford smile.
And it's just like you could just imagine what that is, right, like, uh,

(01:13:08):
you know, like it's he he had something that is
sort of undeniable and undeniable connection with the camera.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Too, no Q, no question, no question. And there are
very few people Elizabeth Taylor's like that, you know that
they just know how to play to the camera. I'm
so with you on that, and you know, I bring
it naturally. There's some un indefinable thing there that you
can't you know, you can't articulate. Yeah, and two other

(01:13:36):
supporting actors that are amazing in it. And I won't
deny that part of it is a sentimental thing with me,
but for Brinley's excellent as the manager. But Richard Farnsworth amazing,
Like my grandfather on my father's side looked exactly like
Richard Farnsworth. How much that or true? The movie True

(01:14:02):
Story or whatever it's called. The god damn it, the
guy died recently. Who did twin Peaks? Your guy? Oh?
Oh the Straight Story? Yeah yeah, yeah, let's just talk
to me. Tell me his name. I can feel less
like an idiot. David Lynch, Yeah, David Lynch. Yeah, yeah, right,
I know, David Lynch. Just again yeah, no much before again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Yeah, he he he's great in the natural, Like, he's
really really good. Uh. Robert Prosky's really good too. I
didn't realize until very recently. The Thief was the first.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Movie he was in.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
I thought I just assumed that he had been a
character actor in movies forever and uh like, but no,
he was. He's he's born as an old man character
actor in the movies.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Being uh with William Peterson. He told me that when
we first talked about the cause he's got a brief
he's the bar tender that assles Jim Jimmy Conny and
Thief and everything. So yeah, and you know, he was
thrilling the movie. But yeah, he's like, oh yeah, Prosky,
you know, incredible, and yeah, I love Robert Prosky and
everything he does. So okay, we ended it there because Unfortunately,

(01:15:07):
my WiFi got screwy and the delay was just too muddled.
So hats off to all the President's men. Another fantastic
movie that we covered and then talked about on the video.
You can struggle through us kind of talking over each other,
or just know that. Of course, we think it's a
great movie, and Gabe says it's tough to watch given

(01:15:29):
today's environment, which I totally respect. So there you go
our thoughts on Robert Redford's films. We're talking about doing
Night of the Hunter next, the fantastic film that Charles
Lawton directed and starring one of our favorite guys, Robert
Mitcham and Shelley Winters. Terrific movie, likely will be joined

(01:15:49):
by Steve Lieber and Jeff Parker, possibly Ian as well,
so expect that as our next scene. Missing until next time.
Thanks a lot for listening and watching. Word Balloon. Word
Balloon is a copyright feature of Shaky Productions, copyright twenty
twenty five. Stay safe, Stay happy, Stay healthy,