Twas The Night Before Bendis pt 3

Part three of ’Twas the Night Before Bendis,. This episode is one of those conversations that starts simple and then immediately spirals—in the good way. We get into secret identities. Do they still matter? Do they work the way they used to? Are they essential to superhero storytelling, or are they a storytelling device we’re all pretending still functions the same in a world of satellites, social media, and everyone live-streaming everything all the time? And once you ask that question, suddenly you’re talking about everything.

That leads us straight into Matt Fraction’s Batman run, because of course it does. What Matt is doing with Bruce, Gotham, power, legacy, and isolation opens up exactly the kind of questions modern superhero stories should be asking. Not “how dark can it get,” but “what does this all mean now?” We talk about what works, what surprises, and why Batman—somehow—still has new angles left when the right people are behind the wheel.

And then—because this is how these conversations go—we pivot to celebrating Steve Lieber, one of the absolute greats. A master storyteller. A cartoonist’s cartoonist. Someone whose work quietly, consistently elevates everything it touches. We talk about why that matters, and why guys like Steve don’t just support comics—they define them.

From there? We discuss where the Netflix Torso adaptation project is, and  TV. Film. The state of storytelling across mediums. . 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, time again for Word Balloon, the Comic for
Conversation show. John Sauntras with you with part three of
our Vendus Christmas Weekend Conversation. The last hour. We start
things off with a big discussion about secret identities and
are they still worth exploring as far as comic book stories.
Also lots of great praise for a lot of our

(00:23):
mutual friends like Matt Fraction and Steve Lieber and Matt
starting off his wonderful Batman run. But also we talk
about liber and man, I'll tell you there's a guy
that doesn't get enough credit for not only his amazing art,
but apparently his contributions in passing it forward, paying it
forward to aspiring artists and stuff Bendus will explain. And

(00:44):
we also just talk more about movies and television like
we always do, and I can say it's another great
conversation with Brian Michael Bendis. As we wrap up this
Christmas Weekend, Vendis tapes on today's Word Balloon.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
His paintings redefine comic book heroes, his vision inspired a generation.
The Legend of Kingdom Come is the definitive documentary on
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Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hey everybody, before we get started, if you've been thinking
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(01:53):
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(02:16):
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Speaker 4 (02:36):
Wouldn't it be cool if there was a book where
someone blew their secret identity and the fallout is enormous
and constant, and every other book knows it right like
those who had cigaret identities. And also, it was watching
the idea of ciccred identities evolve around us as we
were going. It just seemed like, even if you guys
pay attention to MCU, the only one with a secret

(02:57):
identity is Peter Parker. Everyone else is very publicly known
to be who they are, for better or for worse.
It's just it's just a different relationship to the what
we grew up with. As as a as a cliche
of the genre.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, you and I were discussing that when that was happening,
and of course your Superman run yes.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Which is a different kind of way that's indeciding that
from owning it himself, right.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
But has your opinion of is a secret identity necessary
or you know? Or or is it a trope that
we should get away from? That was the vibe that
I was getting from you back then. Yeah, it just evolves, since.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
It evolves with me because you look now like like
like even though the culture's relationship to masks is polarized,
like if you're wearing a mask, or even if you're
an authority figure and you're wearing a mask, will fuck you?
Like there's like that is not the world I was
writing Daredevil in, right, or a Superman, But it was
it was like like that the relationship to what a

(04:00):
cigare identity used to be. If you're a sacred identity
on the internet, you're you were cool and that was
like what are you're hiding?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
What are you from?

Speaker 4 (04:08):
And so and again that's these are generalizations, but there
there is the culturally stuff to talk about and think
about why you're writing it, and it's certainly affected my
relationship to like the truth of Superman. If like he's
about truth and justice, that's the theme. If spider Man
has power and responsibility for Superman is truth and justice.

(04:31):
And if the first thing he does every morning is
pretend to be somebody else that's not truthful, and wouldn't
that one day you wake up and go, hey, wait
a minute, I'm not being truthful? And also, why am
I pretending to be Clark Kent to protect Lois Lane? Hey,
guess what everyone knows Lois Lane knows the super like Superman,
Lowis Lane or together like. It's not protecting. It's the

(04:51):
same friend group. They all know him, right, So who's
he protecting? And if anything saying oh no, I'm Superman,
don't come near the building is a is a much
more deterrent.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Again, I I I respected the choice. I questioned you
and you told.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Me no, I wanted the conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Absolutely, And and that's dude, this is the thing.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
And I wasn't the first person to do it too.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Absolutely, but this is the thing that people have to
understand and forgive me because it is a wide comic
book reading group. But sometimes writers, as we know, will
provoke a hey, what are they doing? Attitude by design?
And it isn't just I'm gonna do something weird just
to piss off those I.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Could never do that, Yeah, but I couldn't get past
it in my head like I have to have. And
also I'm a I'm a joke Asada baby, and the
joke ASA taught us.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
And then what all right?

Speaker 4 (05:48):
And if the and then what doesn't pour six awesome
news stories out of your head, then don't do it?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Then there's no reason to do it.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
And that's like a lot of my best moments at
Marvel were like, hey, we're going to make Norman Osborne
the head of Avengers and then what then you get this, this,
this and this, Oh then.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
That's that by all means, let's have at it, right.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
I think I think Joe Kelly is experiencing some of
that anger and it's like, no disappoint to this right
now with his Spider Man.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
Right yeah, I I and I take I tell every
creator starting with her Superhero runs or not do the
big Swing because some of the stuff I got dinged
on hard on this podcast. People are all they remember
is that it was a good idea, Like now now
I think I mentioned this last time we were on

(06:38):
on the thing. I saw that Instagram where they were
doing the Lifetime Achievement award for like Francis four Coppola
and and and al Pacino goes.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
It really is amazing. It's exactly what people said.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
All the people ever remember and give you awards for
is the stuff you got fired for. All that, all
the all the stuff that was controversial at the time
is all that any one ever talks about as your
best stuff. And that is I have found that to
be true as well, all this stuff, like and I
laughed while I was telling my son this the other day,
like he was watching like audience reaction videos of Avengers endgaming.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
You can hear the audience go nuts when Ronan shows up.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
And I remember having a very like you guys gave
me a lot of shit about Ronan and now you're
a plot and them or now they're like, bring Ronan back,
and I'm like, okay, yeah, the real fascinating. Yes, to
answer your original question, I still ask the question about
secret identities and heroism and protecting the loved ones and

(07:41):
all of the good and pluses. And it felt like
at the moment I felt like it was being taken
for granted as a dramatic idea, like if you had
a secret identity or and there are people who care
around with them secrets in their lives. They don't feel
safe expressing who they are sexually or identifying wise, and

(08:01):
they just have to you know, this goes back hundreds
of years and they don't feel safe expressing who they are.
But it weighs on you. It's not something you think
about it all the time. It's not like something you
take for granted and move on with your day. It's
constantly on your mind. So I wanted it to be
less of a cliche of the moment and something that

(08:22):
would be like, yeah, I have a secret identity and
I'm a lawyer. That is a troublesome area I have
put myself into. So yeah, so again to write the
stories to say, I don't have an answer. I just
want to explore the idea and tell stories and see
what the illuminate. And I'm thrilled having now again just

(08:45):
being in Italy with a bunch of people who are
just reading Dartable like.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
It was a new book.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
I'm thrilled that it it aged pretty well, like there's
only a couple of pop culture references right.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
In the overall, it seems the age pretty good. No,
it's yeah, absolutely, I can't pull it.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
That's you know, James Tynan what he did with Alan
Scott making him a closeted gay man in the nineteen forties.
Because when and no disrespect to James Robinson, but when
they made Alan Scott gay in that Earth to alternate
Justice said him, like why, I'm like, make a new
gay green Lantern. But to go back to Alan Scott's
beginnings and like, not only is he worried about people

(09:27):
knowing that he's Green Lantern, but he has this secret
life that he's got to keep in a very closeted
period of our culture. Now you're telling an interesting story,
and now you have my attention.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, and again these things we grow, our understanding of
things grow.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Like I'm.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
My wife was watching something it was in with some
years ago when she was like, man, the conversation about
mental health has just evolved dramatically, just even how like
episodes of The Office handles stuff versus like things that
we now know to be on the spectrum and how
they were handled even twenty years ago. For jokes and
today would be just there would be humor there, but

(10:08):
it'd be coming from a different space.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Right.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
It's fascinating and I'm sure that in my work too,
as we age into and evolve as a culture as
things changed.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
No, I agree.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Someone wrote something nice about Stephanie Brown.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, I can tell you any amount of time I
spent with any character like that I have a lot
of love and respect for. And the answer is yes,
Like like I loved Tim Drink and Stephanie and where
they were in there and where, and sometimes it's like
where you are in their journey, like you get to

(10:44):
like join on, like the story of Tim and Stephanie continues,
and you're here for this part of it and what
can you do additive to help it along or to
enjoy it as a damn and sometimes it changes like.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Even after you're gone.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Was your on Tim that he was bisexual or no?

Speaker 4 (11:02):
No, not at the time, but I did have the
very hardcore opinion that he is the best Robin and
The's and I would say that and half the Internet
would never let me up off the mat because I
said that out loud. But I didn't know by saying
that that I was I was like inciting to yell

(11:24):
that out on the Internet during a pandemic when no
one's got anything better to do than go fuck you,
baldy is.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
I know people right now that are very mad at
Fraction for the way he's using Tim Drake and that well,
and it's so it's so innocuous and I love it.
But he's like, well, you know he's got you know,
he's taking driving lessons with Batman, and you know, he
was driving his dad around and had a special permit
as a young man because his dad was handicapped, and

(11:51):
so he needed Tim to drive more. And I'm like, dude,
comic history is fluid. I'm like, and this is a
guy who's kind of in the business, and I'm like,
you gotta relax, man, I go, I go if that's
your big be and your bonnet. Although again, and we
know my star trek list of problems and infractions that
I go nuts about. But I mean, you know, I listen.

(12:11):
I not just because he's our friend. I do love
what Matt's doing with Batman right now.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
I'm shock of all shocks. I love my friends Batman,
but it's also just wonderful and you've seen it quite
a few times where not only do they have the gig,
but you can see, oh, I'm rolling up my sleeves
and I'm going to I'm going to do something here, right,
and they swing for the fences and then the audience goes, yes, please,

(12:40):
and and and in a lot of times for us
behind the scenes, it's sometimes six months to a year
build up watching watching your friend really roll up the
sleeves and go, I hope this lands. I hope so,
and you're like, I hope so too, and like and
like with Kelly Sue with Historia, that book was in
production for four years and we kept looking at it,
going it's amazing, this is well, we're not like just

(13:03):
like loving our friend, like this is this is special stuff.
And then and then the audience sees it and you're like, yay, yes,
I will say there are.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Some people for the audio NFJ Spidey is saying, can't
wait for fraction in Liber's Carnage and Jimmy Olsen crossover story.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, I have known the punchline of that story for
a very long time. I cannot wait for you guys
to see it.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I just re released.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
But you really have to put a new Jimmy Olsen
hardcover together to include that storyline.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
You know, somebody asked when I was talking to Matt
about Batman, like, is Jimmy gonna encounter Batman and everything?
And it's like, He's like, no, man, it's a different head.
You know, It's like and it would be from from
Batman's perspective, and you know it's he goes. That was
the fun of obviously that Jimmy book, was seeing Batman
from Jimmy's perspective and everything. So yeah, it's and I
just re released for people who maybe missed it on

(13:54):
the feed. Uh my talk with Lieber about oh yes,
the the Jimmy Olsen run. But also it's metamorpho that
he did with al Ewing, which is a forgotten classic.
It only ran six issues. They got canceled and he's
such a shame if you have, I mean, and obviously
was meant to tie into the movie. But it was
so great because it much like they're Jimmy, just like

(14:15):
Lieber and fractions Jimmy Olsen. It evoked the vibe of
Ramona Freeden, but it was absolutely fresh, absolutely new, and
it it pushed all my buttons and again it's an
old fart that loves the original stuff. It was great,
but they had new things to say about, not only Metamorpho,
but Simon Stagg and his whole crew and everything Sapphire.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
So a lot of people in Portland know this, but Steve.
Steve is legitimately low key because he's a low key
energy person. But he is one of the most important
people in modern comics in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
He has spent now decades of his life helping run
Helioscope Studios, which is one of the largest comic book
studios which houses dozens of creators of many walks of life.
I'm part of the Comic studies program at Portland State University.
He is not a professor. He is just available to

(15:12):
all the students all the time for anything they need.
He goes to there's a comic store here in Portland
called Books with Pictures, and every other Friday he shows
up and he just judges your portfolio and gives you
tips and sends you on your way. He doesn't do
it for money, he doesn't do it for any other reason.
That he is those are a wire to give back

(15:34):
and help. He is someone who has absolutely mastered his
art form. He's an exceptional artist, and he spends every
free moment he has helping anyone who wants it help
them get to their goal. I have told every one
of my students if I was you, I would be
stalking this motherfucker like no one's business. What a gift

(15:57):
that Steve Lieber's floating around willing to just help you, right,
And how hard it was to find anyone to help
us when we were coming up, just because you didn't
know anybody right, right, And there's someone who says, I
will be standing here on a Friday and I.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Will help you if you need help. What a gift.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
So when Steve Lieber rolled up his sleeves and did
that amazing Jimmy Olsen wrap around cover for the hardcover,
I think you could feel not only were we all
excited to be on that silly cover, but it's like,
oh my god, Steve Lieber drew us, Steve liber We're
part of We're part of one of Steve Lieber's great
moments and comics, which by definition will be one of

(16:37):
the great moments of comics because it's Steve. So I
I just I know that Steve I've known Steve a
long time now, and I know that he will never
say any of these words I just said about him
out loud, and wouldn't put up with it if he
was in the room. So I just thought i'd put
it on record that this is what I've known to
be the truth of Steve liber There are some people

(16:57):
that behind the scenes are garbage monts, selfish assholes that
do everything in their power to stop other people from
accelerating or enjoying or getting anything that they have because
they're so terrified that their thing is going to go away, right,
And then there are these other people who just nothing

(17:17):
about their wiring is anything. But let me help you
feel how I feel when I make my comics and
they don't suck.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
And that's what and that's what Steve Liverer's whole jam is.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
I'm not sure over talked over and well, I'll put
an addendum on that and say when when I stayed
with Brian in twenty eighteen for the Rose City show,
and I stayed a couple of five days with him,
which I was the thing that wouldn't leave.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I spent not how I remember it, but I know,
you know, you guys both of you, and at LSTA
and really the kids, they were all lovely. Everybody was lovely.
But I got to spend time at Helioscope and yeah,
I'm friends with Jeff Parker and he's been a longtime
friend and I love Jeff and everything. But I really
got to know liber on that trip. And he's and
and Sarah's well his wife, and they are lovely people.
And yeah, and he is everything that Brian said. And

(18:05):
I'm so glad because he will show up occasionally on
our scene missing show and uh, you know that's great
because he's an old movie freak as well, and you know, so, no,
he's he's really terrific. And yeah, I mean again, you
I had no idea because again, he's such a soft
spoken guy. I've i mean, superior fosis Spider Man. The
thing he did with Nick Spencer is amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
And again, oh yeah, there's a lot of wings the
Fix with an E. Spencer. Yeah, yeah, a lot of
stuff going back many many years. And I'm thrilled that
he he ages into his reputation as as just this
wonderful artist, but it's also what's going on behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah that's beautiful man.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, follow him, follow.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Him on social media if you're interested in the art form.
He's a very he's a giver.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
So yeah. For the audio audience, Steve Liebert has a
great cheat sheet called your Portfolio Critique that people can google.
It's amazing. So that's good.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
And the number one thing on there is get your
old work out of there. This is something that's been
going on that we see like I did it when
I was a kid too. When you're like improving dramatically
as an artist as you're younger, you keep your old
stuff in to show look how much better I am.
And now as I'm older, I know that's a huge mistake.
Only show your best new stuff. We know as humans,

(19:25):
you didn't start this.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Good that you you built to this good, So you
don't have to show us that you got better. Just
show us where you are and where you're going, not
where you were. So that's that's a big one, A
very important question. I'm going to ask.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Should the movie I watched a night be cop clock
Stoppers spected by Jonathan Frakes Powers director Jonathan fakes Or
Laputa Castle in the Skuy and.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I listen, this is it's Castle in the Sky it's
not even close.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
But if you're looking for other recommendations, I never got
to do my movies of the year, so bobably best
picture is one battle after another. It's an incredible film
that does stay with you, like a great seventies film
that it's firmly based on.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
It like stays with you for a while. It's kind
of incredible.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
The Leonardo DiCaprio movie, it's really something, but my personal taste.
There are a couple of movies that were very inspirational
to Power twenty five as well, because there were directors
who are returning to something they already did excellent work
in but had something new to say. The first one,
I think I mentioned the last time we were on

(20:36):
the air together, but it was twenty eight years later
by Danny Boyle.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
This movie shot the shit out of me. I'm a
big Danny Boyle fan. I'm not a big zombie guy.
I do love this franchise, even though it's a weird
it's weird Leo franchise. But he literally returns to.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
The scene of a crime twenty five years later, films
and on iPhones, and about every ten minutes the movie
reveals itself to be something else than what you thought
it was ten minutes ago.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
These are my favorite kind of movies.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
They're hard to pull off because once you set the table,
you're kind of making a promise of this is what
the table is going to be like, and then you
keep taking stuff off the table. Another director who does
this a lot and did it. One of my favorite
ones was No Sudden Moves by Steven Soderberg, where that's
what Dan don cheatle and that Damon's in it and

(21:31):
not a lot of people saw it was an early
pandemic movie, but boy, it's one of the best. Sodaberghs
it and it's a movie where every ten minutes you go, oh,
I thought this was about that, and it's about this. Oh,
I'm actually interested in this too. So this year Soderberg
also put out a movie called Black Bag, starring Kate
Blanchette and Michael Fassbender. I believe it's on Peacock right now.

(21:56):
This is a movie very much like the movie Soderberghs
would have made in the nine, but everything about it
was evolved and elevated and more subtle and exciting. I've
watched it a few times now. It's an incredible motion picture.
And as we were talking earlier in the broadcast about
like piming away for these mid level movies, these like

(22:18):
you know what they call twenty thirty million dollars, Like
they don't cost one hundred and fifty, they don't cost
ten like right in the middle. And this one didn't
do well in theaters, but it's exceptional and it's it's around,
you know, Sober keeps doing this, like every once in
a while he puts out some low key masterpiece like
Lucky Louis or.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
That that aren't.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Oceans movies, but they're they're way up there with them
as far as when you watch them. And Black Bag
is a very much a John Lacarre British spy film,
and it's almost like a chamber piece.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's incredible.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
It's interesting that the Brits are able to make mid
budget movies still. I even watched that Netflix the third
the Thursday Murder Club, and yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
I mean that's part of the problem is they're making them.
They're just in a different format than they used to be.
They're they're just there's just a different market, or they
think it's a different market. I'm not sure it is,
but but they the storytelling. Like there are comedies, they're
just not theatrical Jed Appatoon movies, they're Kristen Bell married

(23:24):
a Rabbi.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, but also yes in tone, I agree with that,
and and and mentioning Apatow and some of the others.
I think the raunchy theater comedy is over. As far
as theatrical release, I don't see them. They tried with
Jennifer Lawrence and that movie.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
That movie made money, though, I mean, that's the probably
you have. They runty comes in waves and even siskel
liber did a couple of special episodes about this where
naughty comes in waves, like sometimes the audience is like
ready will go through and and now I will give
Quinin Tantino some credit. He's gone deep diving into this

(24:05):
on his podcast about how when the culture kind of
gets puritanical, like when there's something like when they start
tightening the screws and everything has to be really you know,
buttoned up and the ties buttoned us. Two years later,
all hell's are gonna break loose, so that then then
then John Waters pops out all right, so like like

(24:26):
like that's what happens, and shits get naughty and sexy
and dirty, and then they get weird and then everything
gets buttoned up again, right and then and if you
watch like the history of like horror movies in the
seventies and eighties, they went like Halloween came out, like,
oh my god, that what a way to tell a story.
And then suddenly the story pov shifted like we're not

(24:47):
watching it from the POV of Jamie Lee Curtis, We're
now we're watching it from the POV of a killer
and that's creepy and why are we doing that? And
then then it goes away like I don't think Porky
to come back as a streaming a TV show, but
there is like sexy naughty things on TV right now.
Oh absolutely, really much like stuff we grew up with.

(25:09):
And then when we see like, uh, like Jacqueline Bessett
in something when we were growing up with.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Oh, yes, no, you know, honestly, I don't know if
you've seen on the Feedbry, but I I talked to
mister Skin, the guy who does.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yes, I know, I see that, and I laugh because
that it's such a I can't believe he's still in business.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, and it's fascinating and truly and this is It's
the greatest compliment because he's still whatever. Morning Zoo still exists.
He comes on the the time. Yes, who's got the
best butt, Who's got the best breast? Okay, fine, But
I'm like, isn't it interesting that Launch has gone away
from the movies but it's all over TV now and

(25:53):
you know, everything Euphoria and everything else. I mean, the
entire career is Sydney Sweeney. All these things that have happened,
and it's interesting. And that's what I talked to him about,
is that now it's not on movies anymore, it's all
on TV. But also you still need character and story.
That Johnny Depp series his daughter The Idol that was
on HBO, Yeah, which was incredibly graphic but sucked because.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, yeah, and then they say it's because of the raunching.
It's no, that was just bad story, bad.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Story, bad characters, just like a Vinyl the show about
the record business in the seventies. I thought The Idol
was the same thing, or was a good idea but
poorly executed. And it's like, no, you blew it because
again you forgot about story and character.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Some good b things here. We got some things about
typewriter movies. Really, I'm really into whatever this happened here?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Do either of you get into certain movies in part
because they feature a certain type of thing you're nerdy about? Example,
I really like movies that feature typewriters.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
You just like the sound I'm I'm what you're referring
to is one of my favorite like light in life
ideas about some like how much of it is music?

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Like you just like the sound of typewriters. You just
like to click and be clap.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Like some people like love the sound of hospitals in
medical shows. I don't because I have severe medical trauma
and I fi hear that beeping. I gotta like leave
the room, right, But people like love that sound.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
It's a comforting to them. Right.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
But like like the click clock of a typewriter, people
love that sound, and yes, the and and sadly because
they're of a time that you don't like hear them
in more. But like like Spielberg a few years ago
made a movie called The Post, which was about like
the Watergate and.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
That was Oh that was a typewriter movie. Washings and
the Paper by Ron Howard uh With with Michael Keaton
running the newsroom, you're just the typewriter. Sound never stops. Well,
there's also all the present. It's man, it's like it's
like it's like it's like drums hammering. It's it's yes,

(28:06):
you know, like a lot of times, there's just like
the way things feel or sound. It's like it's a musicality.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Like even like like watching my daughter love the Gilmore Girls, and.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
It's like, oh, you just like the sound. You just
like how the dialogue.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
Sounds a certain way that's easy to the ear, and
it's and it's the same kind of like I like
the way Lady Gaga sings like it's the same.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's a song and you like how it's sung.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
For years, uh, for news radio, they would constantly have
a teletype sound effect which was inaccurate or anaccine you
know what I'm saying. Inaccurate and inaccinist. Thank you very much,
that's the word. But yeah, because again it evokes that newsroom,
like you were saying about all the president's men in

(28:53):
those movies and the post and the paper and things. Yeah, man,
and no, I'm I'm absolutely about that and uh yeah,
I mean it was one of the exciting things when
I worked in news radio was to be in that
atmosphere and there were no typewriters anymore. Everybody was on computers.
But yeah, man, no, it invokes that. Lou Grant was

(29:14):
like a TV show.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
They did an episode about Aunt Larry Sanders where he
was just writing his autobiography and he was and he says,
I love the click, clean clack, you know, come on,
and some people have their computers set up to make
that sound.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
One of the type, well, Rutka told me, and I
bought one because the the keys on a on a
laptop are just so flat and he and he told
you could buy a keyboard.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Ye, that are there. They look like an old fashioned
typewriter cper. I love it, I absolutely, And that's what
I prefer to type on and stuff. And it's fantastic
and it's worth the loss of a us B poard
to pluck it in and be able to do that.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Tom Hanks is weirdly into typewriters. Yes, as you follow
him on Instagram, Yes, it's almost like a typewriter p
or account. But yeah, so yeah, there are things like that.
There there are things that I if it's about that,
I gravitate to them, and it's usually thematic and it's

(30:14):
usually like an energy kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
It's it's hard for me to describe, but like I
know when I see it, but I get, I get
like and black Bag is filled with it. It's just
like like like every actor has an actress secret and
you can just watch it all day and like decide
different things when you're watching it.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
It's just my favorite, my favorite kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well and being a broadcast guy. Any movie that takes
place in a broadcast studio or you know that kind
of or you know early TV.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, we both worked in newsrooms. I love newsroom.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
I love newsroom TV shows because they're mostly very accurate.
They're mostly unless they're terribly not accurate, but mostly there's
a lot of observation went into it, and most storytellers
take that space seriously.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
You know, absolutely, it's going to be an interesting Oscar
year with directors because there are a lot of guys
that are back with new product, likely Clatter at Boil
and these other guys and stuff is boiled claw fed
for this year? Was that last year twenty.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, you know, twenty eight years later isn't going to
get any nomination. I actually thought, I actually literally.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Think it's my favorite film of the year. But I'm
alone in this, okay. And also like, even in that space,
Sinners and Weapons is just a more refined sure and
bigger hits sure, And.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
If Michael B.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
Jordan doesn't win Best Actor, there's something wrong like that
that was by far the best like performance, even though
Leo is really good too.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Like Ethan Hawk in Blue Moon. Yeah, I think or
at least he is going to get a nomination.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
So and the.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Weapons really and I know people know that the guy
who did Weapons is attached to Tauriso now, but having
recently watched Weapons, I was like, Wow, goudda, this guy
is really good and.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
The choices were quite exceptional.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
What can you tell us about Torso right now?

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Just gain the magic of having something be optioned for
now thirty years in a row without it being made
having come. As we've discussed the numerous times over the
years together, how many very legitimately close calls said oh
that first of all, we got optioned very early, so

(32:28):
me and Mark got to do a draft of it
a dimension Films which no longer exists, And then.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
David Fincher got attached. David Fincher had me to his
office where he showed me all the pre work. The
movie was greenlit as a David Fincher film in black
and white, starring Matt Damon and John Malkovich and Casey
Affleck and Rachel McAdams, Brian sit down, let me show
you what we did. They went to Cleveland. They redid

(32:59):
all my research, which it felt like one of my
heroes giving.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Me a test that I absidentally passed.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
It was a great day in my life.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
I was so excited because I was even like I
remember even thinking, even if it's the worst David Fincher film,
that's pretty great, Like he's he hasn't made a bad movie, right,
and like and oh it's black and white. I'm gonna cry, like,
oh it's not gonna make a dime and I'm gonna
be so happy, right and uh uh. And then the
movie went away because of some studio stuff that had

(33:30):
nothing to do with me or Mark and Draco. It
just we got to call the movie's greenlit. Three days later,
hold on, two days later, it's over. It's not happening,
and and it's just and that happened.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Sometimes.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
I've had other friends that has happened to where it's
a it's a go picture, it's not a good picture,
and uh and it.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
But it was in the moment. So that went away.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
And then Paul Greenrass was attached for a while, and
there was some other people attacked for a while.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
And then just before the pandemic, someone.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Who was my friend korn Hardy, the director of Gangs
of London and The Nun, he was attached and he
me and this writer Robin Beach went to Cleveland and
started putting them all together for working title Universal. And
then the pandemic happened, and then that went away, and

(34:23):
then we got Frank Oz was attached to Powers. And
in fact, I just found the screenplay, the original Powers
screenplay that does not work. It is literally the story
of asshole Christian Walker who has no partner.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
It didn't work.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
It's literally like if if they made Men in Black
and it was just all Will Smith from the point
of view of aliens. It's literally that it doesn't work.
And but I'm thrilled I have it. I'm thrilled I
got to work with Frank Oz. He was super cool.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
It's just someone who's made great movies and I of
them and bow Fingers a classic.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Okay, even the score is a great crime movie.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, it's a problematic performance and right in the middle
of it aside, Yeah, it's hard. I've seen the clip recently.
I was like, that's fair, that is fair. So, but
but he is the asshole of the story so it
kind of holds up. But yeah, still pretty rough.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
It's a little rough. No, I respect that. And of
course the aborted Powers FX pilot.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yes, and and and again.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
I've revisited some of these projects recently and uh, they
were all behind the scenes tremendous experiences, even all of
this ups and downs with Torso, what a fun day
we're having. Do you get to call Mark and Draco
and go, hey, we just got optioned again? And then
so last like last summer, Uh, we were at the

(35:50):
Turning Company, which is a fancy company.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
They had optioned it.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
And it's also weirdly and again I'm only speaking from
the way other people said it. One of the these
projects that other producers are tracking to see where it is.
There's a few projects like this, and I found out
Torso has always been one of them. And so every
time we're up for grabs, someone does grab us, and
it's usually someone very cool and exciting, and the possibilities are.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
There, right.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
So middle last summer, my agent calls and I'll try
to be cool, but someone very cool wants to option
this and I'm like, oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
I would love that.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
And then the agent then goes to another producer at Netflix,
the a guy named Roy Lee who's produced Weapons and
Barbarian and the Minecraft movie and all like hit after
hit after hit, and they goes, I know you're interested
in torso they're about to option it.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
And then Netflix swooped.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
In and like like blew it out of the water
so the other people couldn't have it. I would have
loved to be with the other people too, wasn't meant
to be. Instead, we got the Zach Gregor Roy Lee
Eat the Cat combination at Netflix with a some promises
on the table that look very exciting to me as

(37:16):
what it could be as a story. I would love
if it gets made. I do not expect it to
get made, because I would be full. But it's been
thirty years. I did have the interesting thing where I
said to my lawyer who's been with us this entire time,
and I said, hey, I have a weird question, what's

(37:38):
the longest a book has been optioned and not made? Like,
what are we close to the record, because we're in
we're now in decades And then he the answer was
so quick, it was so funny. He goes, Nope, not
even close. Dune was optioned for fifty years before they
made it and supposedly, and I haven't googled this to

(37:58):
find out if it's true or not. The movie Frozen
is based on a book that Disney has constantly optioned
for over seventy or eighty years, So they're not even
close wow, until they finally made it.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
And for people who don't know, and because it's really
worth checking out, the actual graphic novel that Mark and
Draco and Brian made, Torso, is the story of elliot Ness.
After the Untouchables, he became the same story director. It
is absolutely a true story. It's about when the city
of Cleveland was having its problems with crime and went

(38:31):
to Elianness and said, come from Chicago to Cleveland and
be our safety director.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I believe it was basically police commissioner director.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Clean up Cleveland, and all of a sudden, the serial
killer comes on the scene. And this is Elliott and
one of the.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
First in the world, one of the first in America.
The idea of a serial killer didn't exist, the pathology
of serial killing which is now prevalent in our culture,
like you can watch a million TV shows about it,
none of it existed. So everyone's like, what's happening, Like
what where are all these bodies coming from? And uh,
And it's just literally the story of a man who

(39:08):
is famous for one thing and decided that he was
now good to do everything. And that it's weirdly a
cultural idea that has not dated itself. Will we still
live in the world where people take jobs they are
not suited for and determined they can get it done
and they can't.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
And I think because of and I know it's been
forty years, but because of the Diploma Untouchables movie, which
still gets replayed sure Chase of Costner and Connery, that
I think.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
That an emia morticony. I think.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
I think the Elliott Nest story is still enough in
the zeitgeist that I think it would be appealing. And
like everyone's been saying right now that they really hope
it happens.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, I hope so too.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
I I hope you hear genuine enthusiasm mixed with a zen.
I have no control over it. I make all over
if the Spider Verse movies get made, I have no
control over Jessica Jones still being on TV. It just
things happen, and I go with it when it works
out well, and I try, and when it's my turn
to try really hard to get something made, I try

(40:14):
really really hard, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
But you have to have a zen about it. And
also I also have the And I'll tell this to
everyone who's thinking about it. Unless you're like I'm going
to be a filmmaker, then go be a filmmaker and
do everything you can to make films and nothing will

(40:36):
stop you. I'm a comic book creator, so I'm not
beholden to Hollywood to get anything I want made made.
I got empty papers, and I got my friends, and
I'm lucky enough to have a place where I can
publish some of this stuff. So it is very exciting
that I get to do new things. So I do
not waste a lot of time waiting around for people

(41:00):
to say, yeah, we'll think about it, because that again,
it's been thirty years. If I was sitting there waiting
around for Torsa get made, right, But meanwhile the book exists.
It's still in print, we're putting on it. We just
found out we're getting a new printing because of the news.
Uh so it still still moves books a little hoighly
with interest. That's very cool. But for those of you

(41:21):
who just want to make your comics, make your comics.
If Hollywood comes calling, great, go for it.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
It's cool. I have loved every even the stuff that
blew up in my face. How delightful that that happened.
But don't let it distract you from the goal, which
is make your comics.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
I sound like a hypocrite because I know some other people.
They see my name and stuff.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
I know, But.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
But it's because I stayed. I stay the course. Do
the comics. Don't worry about anything else.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Regarding movies, and especially given that you are constantly watching
new movies and hits, do you have someone asked very
early in conversation about noir films, and do you have
time do you make time to see old stuff that
you've never seen?

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Well, first of all, Sandly, there's not much old stuff
I haven't seen. When I discovered, like I started working
on this book called Goldfish, which was one of my
first crime comics, and I was about thirty pages in
when I went to see this movie Visions of Light,
which is on YouTube. It's a movie about cinematography. Yes,

(42:28):
and there's about a twenty minute chunk in the movie
about the origins and the authors of the language of
film noir, which is John Alton, the cinematographer for te Men,
and all these crime movies that were coming out, these
dirty ceed like shadow caked black and white movies the

(42:50):
back and the whites are white. And I was already
invested in this language without fully understanding that I was
part of a generational like I can see like, I
didn't get it. And when this movie came out, I
saw in the theaters and it was like a religious
experience for me, where I was like, Oh, this is
where I live, this is what speaks to me.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
And I then dove in hardcore for decades and also money.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
My heroes were already trying to point me in that direction.
Scorsese was already writing The Afford to John Alton's book
called Painting with Light, and like all of my modern
heroes of storytelling were already pointing back and going, watch
fucking team men. I stole every shot from there, including
Tarantino and all these people like, well, look where I

(43:39):
got my stuff from. So I have copies of multiple
copies of many of the great classics and weird crime
weirdness that goes back. And also there's always pockets. It
happened the seventies, it happened in the nineties, where there's
an enormous amount of crime fiction being cook usually because

(44:02):
something was a hit. It happened in comics too, when
Sin City was a hit, a lot of people said, oh,
that's what you want and tried to do that. Sure,
so and every once in a while out of that
comes some really hidden gems of stuff. And then we're
talking about stuff that kind of comes and goes as
a hardcore genre.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Baby who loves crime fiction.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
It's amazing how genre has become more like a spice
and a flavor than a than a than a lane. Right, So,
like there's a lot of excellent crime fiction out now,
but it's like crime fiction comedy somebody brought brought up
like Caught Stealing or or White.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
The Knives out movie too.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
The Knives out movie.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Uh, there's stuff that comes out that is oh yeah,
or the gentleman, like the spy thrillers with us with
a British actor from Pirates of the Caribbean, Like, they're
out there that are being all told and so it's
all out there, slow horses.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I know. It's a spy drama. It's also a crime fiction. Yeah,
so a lot of it's out there, and a lot
of the proprietors of these stories take their language very seriously,
and there's a lot of people elevating the space that
they're in right now. And I would also include Blue

(45:24):
Eye Samurai into that space. And I get very and
this loads up to my early days with Jinks, where
I'm like watching the Good, the Bad, the Ugly, going
this is a crime movie that's a Western, but it's
a crime movie. They committed a crime and they're dealing
with it, right. And then I got all like hopped
up in my head about what genre is and where

(45:44):
I can explore it. So that's why most of my
superhero comics are crime comics.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
They're one hundred percent, Like Ultimate Spider Man is starring
in a crime comic. It's the Kingpin and he won't
go to jail no matter what happens. That's a crime comic.
So I would use the languages and rules that I
was learning from my heroes and apply them directly to
other genres to see where the genre was.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
I I've again on there's Scene missing show. We sometimes
we pick westerns.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Should go on this show. What's that I should come
on the show?

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, I would love for you to come on the show.
I mean it's hard, you know, it's hard to pin well,
you know, we get a couple of people, it's hard
to do a group show. But absolutely we did Gun
the Man Down, which is a James Arnez late fifties.
It's Angie Dickinson's one of her first movies, and it
absolutely is a crime movie disguised as a Western.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
And it's fascinating to me what those are. And there's
a lot of war movies that are actually crime movies,
and a lot of like the Great crime novels, are post.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
War reality stories.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yes, very much.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
So, yeah and yeah so and right now we're in
the fantastical, Like there's also spaces where everything is fantastical,
and there's a lot of time travel going on in
multiverse stuff.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Going on.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
But then the slingshot of that, well, we're going to
go back to like little hard boiled jewels. That's always
where it goes back to. Let's go back to basics.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Things wants you on with me and Artin Franco.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
I love Franco. I know you do do that.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
You know Frank is on the East Coast.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
You have tried to get us together, and I truly.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Have because I love when as as Georgia and Seinfeld
would say, I love it when my world's collide, that
makes me very happy and truly, even my non comic
book friends when they've had the opportunity to meet my
comic book friends, there's nothing more delightful. But there as
you've met I know you've met them at writing seminars
at DC and things like that.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Also, just a big fan of the work. I saw
them years and years ago, like yeah, when I was
coming up, I was really enjoying their stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Well there, you know, we do our fuck around show
and it's it's fun and it does get silly and
crazy and stuff and I even, oh god, I well
I told you. I can't announce it you, but I
told you about a podcast. Franco and I prepping yes,
and I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
For that thing.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Brian, I'm gonna wait till we got a couple of
episodes in the can. It will not be a live show, everybody,
but we're gonna do a can show, and I think
for what we're doing, we will do the occasional live show,
but it's you'll.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
Find you'll find its energy and then decide whether or
not it needs to be a live show, like you
did with this show.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Hey, Begley's joining us, Hey Kyle, Kyle. My pandemic comfort
show was James Garner's Maverick Indeed, which is a crime
show like forty percent of the time. Hell yeah, man,
I saw it.

Speaker 7 (48:32):
I saw It's.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Also like a perfect example of that show even in reruns.
Just felt different and a little more fun and a
little more sophisticated than other shows like it, which would
be Bonanza, I guess right, right. Shout out to Bananas
for Bonanza starring Andy Daily, best podcast that isn't by
John one.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Of the things that inspired my show that's coming up
exactly going Bonanza show.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Banana for Bonanza highly recommend.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
But but yeah, they're in performance and swagger and just
just like there's something about it, and that's very much
like what they were talking about in Once upon the
Time in Hollywood, that era of stories that immediately captured
like a like a hook that they were doing.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Well, Fagle, I want you to look up, because first
of all, people will blow off the Bart Maverick shows
that Jack Kelly did. They're great, they are great, but
even more importantly, for one season like ten episodes, Roger
Moore was their British cousin bo Maverick, and there is
one episode in particular that absolutely is a crime story

(49:38):
and it has John Carrodine, Levan Cleef and Sherry Jackson.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
I think have you seen this episode?

Speaker 4 (49:46):
I used to watch Maverick religiously. I'm not sure whether
what it looks like but today. But when we were
coming up, there were so many reruns in Cleveland on
Saturday afternoon, and the stuff that stuck out really stuck
out because there was a lot of garbage, right yeah,
when something had like oh you were a little ahead

(50:07):
of your time here, okay, you know, compared to Bonanza,
which would be like portraying it's outside, but you could
tell their inside like like they can't even get that right,
versus a show like Maverick which seemed to take things
or Wild Wild West would just take things.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Just a little further than you thought possible at the time.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I love that line in Diner where the guys like
the pun I saw Bonanza and color the Potter Usa
look fake. I hardly recognize the little Joe.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Now, for those of you who don't watch Bananas for
Bonanza and the great Andy Daily and the great Matt
Gorley from Conan O'Brien, mixed with for the first couple
of years, the incredible Maria Bamford, pretend to do a
rewatch podcast of Bonanza starting with the first episode in character.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
But yet they really do it.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
They really you go through every single episode and they
really care about it, and it's really funny, and it's
really fine. And if you're a Maria Bamford fan, it's
forty hours of the best stuff she's ever done in
any format. It's like this hiden jewel of her genius.
It's incredible. I highly recommend it. And she's been replaced
by Lily Sullivan, who's also one of the great geniuses

(51:22):
out an improv. She's killing it on the show. I
couldn't recommend it higher. I just I think it's tremendous.
And also it's one of those things like when they
describe the episodes, I go, I've seen that episode, like
like I remember as clear as day. It's crazy that
how much Bonanza might I might have watched and how
terribly racist it was.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Well, anyway, that's true, this is true.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Do you want to wrap up? Is that a night?

Speaker 3 (51:46):
I wish it. I gotta get some. I gotta get some.
I just saw the time.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
I guess yeah, I understand it like four in the
morning for you or something that's gonna say it's five
minutes to three times.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Did want to hang and we did want to do
something special for the people who were who were supporting
the club and give them a little bit of extra fun.
I hope everyone is playing with her legos and other
presence that they got for the holidays while they listened
to this. That was our goal. I will say, we're
broadcasting after the holidays.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
So if you've got a gift card, if you've got
like an Amazon gift card or like a bookstore gift card,
I must say, I what a great opportunity to go
to a com bookstore or go to a bookstore and
buy something you normally wouldn't buy.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Like, let's say you love like.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Kelly Thompson's Absolute wonder Woman, will go buy The Call
from Her or Jason Aaron. If you love Jason Aaron,
he's got a great Matt fraction, go go read adventuremin By.
If you love Batman, oh my god, go read Adventure
Man by him and Terry Dotson. So there's like for
every book you're reading, or if you're reading only independent stuff,

(52:55):
check out some of these mainstream books that are shooting
shooting high. And there's a lot of them right now now.
So anyway, I just said, what a great opportunity to
try some graphic novels, some other formats that you normally
wouldn't try. Just boy, it's such an exciting time in
the comics making space, and what a great opportunity for

(53:15):
you to challenge yourself and try some new things.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
That's my recommendation.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Jump on the first four issues of Powers. Issue four
came out on Christmas Eve, and the arc will continue
next month. And then also is there a publishing date
yet for Adventures eight on?

Speaker 3 (53:30):
I believe third week in January is Avengers eight hundred
me and Mark Badley reuniting and with great warmth enjoy
I'm also a big fan of Jeff McKay. I got
to spend some time with him this summer. I really
enjoyed him and happy to write a part of his
run as well. And that is the first of a

(53:51):
handful of Marvel projects, both big and small, that we'll
be percolating out through the year. None of that takes
away from what will be in the ongoing production of
new material through Dark Horse.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
I also have a new graphic novel coming out with
David Marquez from For a Second, and so there's a
lot of I know a lot of people have for
joined me really sticking to my guns and spending the
last few years doing only creator own stuff and putting
as new using the gift of Miles Morales to put

(54:28):
out as many new things as I possibly can, and
I have done so, and I will continue to do so.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
We have literally.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Like ten brand new projects coming out over the next
few years, all of which will be backed by the
continuing ongoing of Powers relaunch and what will hopefully by
the time this even gets announced, the news of what's
happening with Powers outside of.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Comics beautiful, excellent, and we will announce a day for
the book club for next week before New Year's.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Yeah so, but for sure in the meantime, read by
Darwin Cook, Richard Parker's The Hunter. That's the right one
right again again, I read them out of order by
mistakes to other people. They're all worth reading. I think
you can read them all very quickly and enjoy them.
But this this, I will say, we haven't read a

(55:21):
bad book yet for book club. This one really hit
me hard. This one I'm excited to talk about, and
I did. I did feel that I'll save it for
the podcast. But I was in the same space as
Darwin a few times. Darwin was a bit of a
character to kind of cut my distance, to say the least. Yeah,
so I'll just watch from over here. I'm mad I

(55:45):
didn't communicate more with him directly.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
I did one of my editors right in the face
in front of me, so I did see.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
That, okay. At A great regret of mine was that
I never got him on the show.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
But I was going to ask that. I was wondering
if there was an episode.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
The I fanboy guys became really good friends with him.
He was a nice acquaintance for me and was always
very sweet to me when I'd see him in San
Diego and other conventions, but we just never unfortunately, never
made the time. Sadly, he was sick when I was
really and didn't know that he was sick when I
was trying to get him when he was doing all
the Parker stuff for IDW and everything, but no, brilliant

(56:21):
man and one of Jimmy Polyatti's best friends and.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
A real character, like really really was I saw it again.
I was there when he punched out an editor. It was.
It was. That's something you don't see every day.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
When his Brewbaker Catwoman Run is excellent and it's now
in that small DC Digest format that's only ten Bucks.
Can't recommend enough. Also, his art of Darwin Cook for
DC Hardcover is beautifully It's so great.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
And yeah, man, he's in the final Final Frontier. What's
it called?

Speaker 1 (56:52):
H oh, New Frontier, New Frontier, Yeah, finally New Frontiers.
Star Trek last night, yeah, way exactly back to that,
and another thing about Star Trek that I don't know,
Like I'm kidding, the Final Frontier, No, I'm kidding. Okay,
all right, all right, how are you.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
By the way, we have not discussed the Starfleet Academy
nine O two one oh. Poster that again, I am
married to I am married into a Star Trek household.
You were a Star Trek household atleasta. One day we'll
come on the show. I do believe that Star Trek
Starfleet Academy might be the thing that gets around.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Oh that would be lovely, because I all I can
say is I really hope this is the last gasp
of Alex k Alex Kurtzman Star Trek.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
I don't have any insight information, but I do happen
to know that someone who I believe you've met a
friend of ours named Chris Parnell, who's an executive who
is the reason that Powers got on the air years ago.
He got a recommendous Black Science on the Black Science.
What was the one that got on the air. Yes, Deadly, Deadly,

(57:56):
deadly class Yeah. Sorry, I meant no disrespect, but we
got preached on the air. He's like one of us
who gets big swing comic book stuff on the air.
He moved to Paramount recently and has now.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Been put in charge of what will become the next
generation of Star Trek I don't know what that means
other than I know what's in good hands, like the
hands I've been in. So I'm excited past the star
fleet that cap me nine A two one. I was
starting to cling on poster. And if you haven't seen it, google.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
It you're gonna think, Also, did you think that was ai?
Like someone was fucking around? We saw it?

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Oh, okay, and I know and in fact I thought
it was a fake. Other people are like, oh, that's
clearly a joke, and it's like, no, this is their intent.
They are doing nine oh two to one to Ozero
Star Trek. But as you were saying about that, guy
Chris Matt Fractor told me the same thing, and he's like,
good news. There is somebody at Paramount that understands Star
Trek and has been winning his whole life to make

(58:56):
good Star Trek. And you know it's the it's the
Dungeons and Dragons and Game Night directors that are making
this new movie. And they have they have set the
line and said no, mister Kurtzman is not involved. Thank God,
we're gonna get We're still gonna get it. Season and
a half of Strange New Worlds. We're gonna get at
least one.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Or you like changing worlds? Right, you like changing worlds?

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yet times we'll talk and at Leasta and I will
talk about.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
But uh I did I did hear through the grape
vine that Holly Hunter did ask for her character to
be murdered no way because if there's a second season
she would like not to come back.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Well what does that tell you?

Speaker 6 (59:37):
Kids?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
There you go?

Speaker 3 (59:38):
I don't know, I don't know anybody involved. I heard
it through the Hollywood grape vine.

Speaker 7 (59:42):
Right, the whole real fast. The whole ship is the school,
and the whole ship is in space being fired upon,
And it's like that doesn't make bombings. Have a ship
and send kids out on missions. Fine, but the whole
ship is a school. That's stupid. I'm that is stupid.
And again Oldmanuelan from his porch.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
No, but Starfleet Academy, just by name feels like the
most no brainer. This should this should this should have been,
this should already be on its fourteenth season.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
They've been trying to make it, literally for over thirty years,
down every time amazing. Harve Bennett, the original movie producer,
wanted to make it instead of Star Trek six got
shot down. Everyone's like, after Deep Space nine, well let's
get an O'Brien show where he's teaching at Starfleet Academy.
You've already laid the groundwork for it. Nope, they don't

(01:00:35):
want it, and yes, I'm for it. But we get
Card season three and we're like, hey, let's continue with
Jerry Ryan as the captain of the New Enterprise. And
all these kids say, you just know, we're giving you
Starfleet Academy and all your favorites from Discovery are going
to be guest stars. It's like, we didn't like Discovery,
we hated Discovery, and you're giving us more of your crap. Kurtsman,

(01:00:57):
what are you doing to us? You are killed. I
am getting gray Air speaking about but that is we.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Were talking about the music of a show. There's something
to the boo boop sounds in Star Treks that are
very appealing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Oh those bridge sounds are you know? There's like eight
hours of every iteration of start.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
But I must tell you in Italy man, so that
my first week there was a thing called in Google
at the Milan Games and Comics Convention and you go like,
I'm not from there. I don't know what it is,
and of course we get there twice the size of
San Diego. Two hundred and twenty thousand people were there.

(01:01:34):
It was huge, and part of the convention is fully
run by fan organizations. So they brought a Star Wars
like experience that mirrors Galaxy's Edge, like it's so good
and so immersive, and London was beside himself, and then

(01:01:55):
the Starfleet Academy group, and there was a Doctor Who
group and a Star group and they really took the
ship seriously and it was so good you would have
loved it, like like like your your people are out
there and they're yelling in Italian.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
I want to go to I want to go to
New York and Taekwonder Roga where they've recreated the original
series Enterprise. They've got Sick Bay, they got the bridge,
they have corridors, they got the transporter room. And I've
seen the I've seen the photos. It looks like you're
still on the on the sets.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Did you ever get to go to the casino?

Speaker 7 (01:02:31):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I did too, and I never get to the Voyager years.
I went when it was still next generation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
It was great because I would go to Vegas to
cover boxing. Oh okay, And on Sunday, before I flew back,
I would spend the entire day and I'd go through
the ride and all the prop museum and everything, and
then I would eat lunch at Quarks because it looks
like Deupe Space nine. It looks like Quarks. It was great.
So yeah, I love that thing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Remember three hours ago when Taki was wearing a dinosaur costume.
Very so all right, thank you for hanging out with
us for over three hours, my goodness, and we could
we could keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Thanks people are hanging out with us. Thank you for
hanging out with us all night. The whole point was,
I'm sure there are people out there who want to
hide from their family and uh and just hang out.
So thank you for hanging out with us is very cool.
I agree with stan Kovich I that Fraction should do
more Casanova. I'm a huge fan of that. Thank you

(01:03:28):
all for hanging out with us.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
If you want more of this nonsense, join John's Patreon
or come to the Jings World Discord, which is on
all day and is filled with people just really celebrating
each other's work and nerd stuff. And I share little
secrets of stuff I don't share publicly and uh, it's
all good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
So if you want to the next word balloon line,
Brian's own editor, David Shaban will be joined. Daniel Shaban
will be.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Doing when is that? I might pop in for that.
Now that's Monday. Oh i'm a I'm a send me
a link. I might pop in there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
So Daniel Schaiban like, if I can hype this a
little bits, like Steve Lieber is like one of the
great guys in comics. So he does edit all and
publishes all my stuff at dark Horse, but he does
all the creator own stuff at dark Horse, which is,
if you start adding it up, a seismic amount of
outstanding comics from David Mack and Kelly Zoo and so

(01:04:24):
many other people masterminds. It just is an incredible amount
of very cool stuff. Daniel comes and helps teach my
class and gives the students like what it's what it's
like to work with an editor and what is expected
of you from editorial if you want to be in comics.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
He is a really great guy.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
And I think if you're serious about your comics career
on any level, being a writer, artist or editor, this
is a must tune in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
I highly recommend it. He's just a great guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I've had very few editors on because certainly DC kind
of keeps them under wraps. And uh, it's I've tried
to get guys from Marvel occasionally and things.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
And it has had on right who Tom Breefort I
have had time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
That's an exception, but a lot of the a lot
of the guys that are and Tom the overall editor
and stuff, but like Will Dennis for years wouldn't come
on because DC wouldn't allow them. So as soon as
he didn't move to Burbank, I'm like, hey, all right now,
and he's like, all right, give me six months and
then we'll talk.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
And he's think that it's more political for editors because
having having hung out with a lot of them when
I don't need anything, you see how much their lives
are so transactional, like everyone's trying to get work from them, sure,
or something from them.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
And it makes it hard for them to be able
to communicate stuff. It's like opening the door you can't
fully close. So I get it, but may this be
another opportunity for Daniel to come on here and you
guys listen to it and everything. He's saying is very
warm and accurate, and if you're serious about your career

(01:06:09):
in comics, you should know this, because I've done this
conversation with him, and man, I wish I knew it
when I was coming up, like boy, I would have
behaved differently like you know, or or or pivoted correctly
towards these things. But everything he's saying is great advice
and you should take it. All right, good night, God

(01:06:29):
bless I love you. I'm glad we did this. Next
week book club next week, Daniel Shaban, and then we'll
come around and talk Avengers when the time comes or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
But thank you for doing this, all right. Stay safe, holidays,
Stay safe, Go read a comic.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
There you go. Stay happy, stay healthy. Bye bye