September 7, 2025 • 56 mins
World Awakenings episode 219 meets Barbara Minton, PhD, a psychologist who explores neuroscience, music, the beauty of nature, and healing in what she calls the “intersection of music, science & the heart”. In her clinical practice, Dr. Minton uses music, neurofeedback, audio-visual entrainment, neuromeditation, and other frequency-based techniques to increase a person’s optimal functioning. She is also a professional musician who has partnered with Peppino D'Agostino, a world-class guitarist, to create music to create specific brain states related to improved functioning. They have recorded and produced an album called, “Calm the Storm” which was thoughtfully composed to help normalize brain networks associated with chronic pain, migraine, and insomnia. Dr. Minton is literally making beautiful music to help you cut through the chaos of daily life to help you find a true sense of pace and calm!
Don't forget that you can now watch World Awakenings on the brand-new TV network, New Reality TV!
To find out more about this amazing woman, Dr. Barbara Minton check out her two websites, https://musicandhealing.net/ and https://drbarbminton.com/
If you would like to get a copy of Dr. Minton's & Peppino D'Agustino's album, Calm the Storm just click this link.
Don't forget that you can now watch World Awakenings on the brand-new TV network, New Reality TV!
To find out more about this amazing woman, Dr. Barbara Minton check out her two websites, https://musicandhealing.net/ and https://drbarbminton.com/
If you would like to get a copy of Dr. Minton's & Peppino D'Agustino's album, Calm the Storm just click this link.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is World Awakenings the Fast Track to Enlightenment with
your host Carl Gruber. World Awakenings is a podcast dedicated
to opening your mind, your heart, and your eyes to
the fact that the world's population is now more than ever,
awakening to all things spiritual, metaphysical, and enlightening and just
(00:27):
how they play an all important role in our daily life.
So join Carl on this enlightening experience as he interviews
metaphysical and spiritual experts to discuss, debate, and delve deeply
into the house and whis of this world wide awakening.
(00:51):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's in the air. The time is now.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We're all waking up.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
We're waking up.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We're all waking up.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's all shifting, new vibration. It's you, it's you, it's me,
it's all of us. It's gathered a new time, a
new day, a new energy, a new energy.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Uria.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Awaken with us, Awaken with us, Awaken with us new
REALITYTV dot Com.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Hey, welcome to episode number two nineteen of World Awakenings
of Fast Track to Enlightenment. I'm your host, Carl Gruber. Now,
when this show began in twenty eighteen, our main mission
was to find the answer to the question why, now
more than ever, are the people of the world awakening
to all things spiritual, metaphysical and enlightening. And so with
(01:53):
this show we continue this quest with yet another beautiful
and amazing expert as our guest today to help give
us some insight into the answer to this question. Now,
before we head off to meet our guests, I'd like
to remind you that not only can you watch this
show on YouTube, but World Awakenings is now available to
watch on the brand new TV network New Reality TV.
(02:17):
Just click the link below in the show notes to
find out more. All Right, off we go to meet
our guests. Today, we meet Barbara Minton, PhD, a psychologist
who explores neuroscience, music, the beauty of nature, and healing
in what she calls the intersection of music, science and
the heart. Now. In her clinical practice, doctor Minton uses neurofeedback,
(02:40):
audio visual and treatment, neuromeditation, and other frequency based techniques
to increase a person's optimal functioning. She is also a
professional musician who has partner with Peppino Agostino, a world
class guitarist, to create music to create specific brain states
related to improved functioning now. They have recorded and produced
(03:03):
in an album called Calm the Storm, which we'll talk about,
which was thoughtfully composed to help normalize brain networks associated
with chronic pain, migrain, and insomnia.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think right now the world could use something in
a calm our brain networks.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Welcome to Thank you so much. Yes, it's always nice
to be calm and regulated in spite of what's going
on outside.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
You right, yeah, yeah, and you know you got to
value those calm and regulated moments really. But you know,
I'm curious as to whether psychology and neuroscience or music
came first in your life. Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, Well, I think, like a lot of people, music
came first in my life. I started piano lessons when
I was a child, and I guess I never had
the sense to quit. I actually went to college when
I went to music school, and I chose the very
trendy instrument of pipe organ to play. And then I
(04:08):
realized after a while that was going to be a
tough road to make a living as a concert pipe organist.
And I found another love in psychology. And so I
just feel so fortunate to have been able to go
down this path and now to be able to integrate
these two fields that I love so much. It's just
such a joy.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, and I guess you can't really have a pipe
organ at home, right you have to.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's a little rough. Yeah, you know, we do have
some pretty good sample pipe organs that you can play
on the keyboard, but it's definitely not the same. There's
something about the pipe organ because of the substantial frequencies
it creates that really coming through speakers tends to truncate
(04:53):
those frequencies. And so being live with a pipe organ
is like nothing else.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Did you go to a college or university where they
had a pipe organ and you could?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I did so. I went to University of Denver and
they had a pipe organ there. Actually, many universities still
do have pipe organs, especially if they came from a
religious tradition. So I'm sitting here in Berkeley, California right now,
and about a mile away at University of California, Berkeley,
they have a beautiful pipe organ, and many older churches
(05:27):
still have pipe organs. So you know, as an itinerant
pipe organ, I go around in beg may I please
practice on a pipe? And then it's really fun because
I get to meet all these interesting people that are
also pipe organists and love this this this very ancient,
beautiful instrument.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So, you know, I'm just thinking. It seems to me
there is one particular guy, maybe a couple of them,
who have been professional pipe organ performers that are traveling
around the world. Gosh, I know he came through a
years ago here in Columbus, Ohio, because our Ohio Theater
has a beautiful pipe organ. I don't know, maybe you
know his name, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
There's actually several people that have managed to make a
living doing this, and they really are the top of
the heap. If you ever get a chance to go
listen to them, you should grab it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There's a guy who plays in Notre Dame and Callum Graham,
who's the first guitarist that I worked with on this,
trying to compose specific music in order to create certain
frequencies in the brain. He had been touring in Europe
and he walked into a cathedral he hadn't heard the
pipe organ before, and he said, it just blew up. Yeah,
(06:42):
you know, people that play these beautiful old pipe organs,
and they're really virtuosic players. There's just nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And usually pipe organs being in a church or cathedral,
the acoustics are phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yes, so there's a beautiful cathedral here in San Francisco
called Grace Cathedral, and you know these cathedrals often were
designed for the resonance of the pipes and so just
standing and here listening, so you know, music is not
only processed by your ear, so that's one thing we
(07:16):
think about, but it's also processed by your body. So
we have these things called mechano receptors in our skin
and our feet. They're the things that help us stand
up straight. They have all kinds of functions, but one
of them is they resonate and perceive vibration. And so
there's actually a really fascinating study done where they put
(07:39):
people in an MRI where they can image the brain,
and they actually played them quote sounds that you couldn't hear,
so they were below frequencies that the ear could pick up,
but the brain registered them as sounds. And so we're
processing sounds in a much more profound way than most
(07:59):
people think of and probably are primitive ideas. And so
when you get in a situation, I think heavy metal
music is another kind of domain for people that like
that type of music. You're getting inputs on an incredible
number of frequencies to your body, and we've people people
(08:20):
experienced this as transformative in some cases.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So with that being said, what what led you to
study in practice? Psychology?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You know, that's so funny because when I when you
go to music school, all you do is learn music.
You don't take other, you know, kind of basic college courses.
So I was a junior by the time I decided
to change my major, and I just said, I got
to get out of music, so I need to take
all these general ed courses. I'll just take them. And
(08:53):
my advisor said, oh, you can't do that. You have
to declare major. And I said, well, what's the major
with the least requirements? All do that while I'm trying
to figure out what I really want to do. And
they said Psychology. I'd never taken a psych class. I
was like, okay, put me down as a psych major.
So I go take Intro to Psychology. I thought, oh,
(09:13):
this is really pretty interesting. I think I should take
another psych class. And then I just got fascinated by
what is it that makes people tick? How do cultures
and societies work all these big questions, and I became
very interested actually in psychology of religion. The first publication
(09:33):
I ever got in a journal as an undergraduate was
on how religious versus non religious people felt about death,
and then it just kind of went on from there.
It was a fortuitous mistake, I guess, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just snowballed from there. So what instinctly and you practiced
is what is neuroscience and is an offshoot of psychology.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, it's a great question. So it's really interesting. Most
of us think as psychologists, and you're actually a life coach, right,
so you do this too. So people come to you
with a problem or something they want to achieve, and
we talk with them and we help them find a
path forward on that. Neurotherapy is a little bit different
(10:24):
because what we tend to do in neurotherapy is we
look at what the brain is doing. So is your
brain stuck in a pattern of firing that isn't working
for you? So, for example, if you're anxious, the anxiety
network of your brain is not turning off, So the
brain fires in networks kind of like how we have
(10:47):
networks of airplanes flying around, right, So we have hubs
like Denver, New York, LA. And these planes fly in
and out of these hubs and then they go to
smaller places. Well, the brain works like that too, so
you have these networks in there, but the networks can
kind of get a little bit off track. So in neurotherapy,
(11:10):
what you do is you work directly with the brain
by working with electron cephalogram EEG and rewarding the brain.
So you monitor the brain and you reward it every
time it starts to move out of its stuck state
or some you can use audio visual entrainment where you
flashlights in people's eyes and play sound in their ears
(11:31):
to kind of get them out of that state. And
then there's transcranial direct current stimulation where you actually put
in very small amounts of electricity. There's many, many different approaches,
but these would all kind of come under the general
rubric of neurotherapy and neuromeditation. Your listeners might be interested.
(11:52):
So there's a guy in Eugene, Oregon, Jeff terrant T,
a R R E N T, and he's put together
a of protocols where you can put sensors on your
brain and actually it will reward you for going into
a meditative state, and so many people that are meditators
(12:12):
like to use this or photo biomodulation is another approach
where you flash lights on your brain to kind of
help your brain optimize these states. So there's so much
cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
In this area. Oh, I would say, gosh, yeah, there's
so much you talked about. One thing I would like
to find out. Your work is described as bridging science
and the soul.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How so, wow, that's a big question, you know. So
I'm going to come back to music for a minute.
Music has there's many portals to a spiritual connection, right,
So meditation might be one of them, walking in nature
might be one of them. Sometimes it comes out of
(12:58):
nowhere and you just get act right. These things are
all documented. Music can also be a portal towards something bigger,
and many musicians this is why they go into music,
because it's an emanation of who they really are in
this world or what their soul is in this world.
(13:22):
And when they play this music, they go into a
state like they don't experience in other realms. And to
be able to gift that to other people, I think
is one reason why many musicians like to play. And
so the question I really asked in this album, and
(13:44):
I want to just say how grateful and lucky I
was that Peppino Dougostino worked with me, because this guy
is just I mean, he's a world class virtuosic musician.
And I really asked this question, like, can we compose
curated music to help the brain become kind of calmer,
(14:09):
more normal and open itself up to a sort of
a bigger experience. And I'm not saying this works for everybody.
This is not a treatment, but for some people. I mean,
we had one guy say, you know, I had a
religious experience. Basically when I listened to this music, I
felt like all my sins were forgiven and I could
(14:32):
just walk forward with a clean slate. And to me,
hearing feedback like that about this music just means everything.
You know, that opens something for this guy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, and you and I had a little conversation before
we started recording here. I mean, myself, I always have
some type of calm, peaceful music. I mean, I grew
up in the hippiear or so, you know, I'm used
to that, you know a while, and crazy psychedelic music,
which I still like and I can listen to it,
but I can no longer listen to it for a
long duration, you know, and go, Okay, that's good. Let
(15:05):
me put on something quiet and peaceful, and it just
you know, I can go through my day a little
more relaxed and productive.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, and I think you know, I actually talked with
somebody a couple of weeks ago and they were doing
a take home exam for their PhD. Which you know,
these things are a little nerve wracking, but I played
this in the background. You said, it changed everything, you know,
the writing started to flow more smoothly. It's because it
helped his brain kind of stay in that zone where
(15:36):
it was most optimized. And that's such a beautiful use
of music.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Let us take a break right now to enjoy the
music of doctor Barbara Minton playing acoustic guitar and Callum
Graham on electric guitar on their song Glace Your point. Well,
(21:15):
you know, there's obviously a deep spiritual connection for you
here in your work. Have you had any particular spiritual
experiences that have led you on this path, any that
you care to talk about? And if not, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You know, it's so funny. I kind of got into
this that way. I was actually watching some YouTube videos
of some music and it just kind of struck me
like this was something I had to do, and almost
felt like some sort of external force was pulling me
in this direction. And this happened about three years ago,
(21:54):
and it really changed the focus of my work. So
you know, how those things happen, I can't explain, but
it was something I really couldn't ignore, and so we'll
just see what happens. I hope it's useful to other people.
My whole life has really been around engaging with suffering
(22:17):
and trying to do something about it, offering different vehicles
for people to feel better. And you know, hopefully this
is another one.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well and too let's go back to I guess this
would be more in that neuroscience area with music. Studies
reveal that music's diverse health benefits include promoting weight gain
in NICEU babies, which I have heard this before, alleviating depression,
enhancing reading comprehension and individuals with ADHD, even accelerating recovery
(22:50):
and stroke patients, in influencing other wide range conditions. How
and why does music do this? I think he kind
of touched on this a little bit already.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, you know what's I'm going to just take a
step back and say a few years back, a colleague
of mine asked me to write a chapter on music
and neuromodulation, which basically means changing the brain for a textbook.
And I hadn't you know, I always knew music was
(23:21):
out there, it was cool, it did stuff, But it
wasn't until I immersed myself in hundreds and hundreds of
these articles that it just blew me away how powerful
music was and how people were not using it. Like
we have all this data in the research literature, like
if you have to go through a bad procedure at
(23:43):
the hospital, music decreases your anxiety, Like who wouldn't want
to do that? If you have? And I listened to
your interview with Tom Kenyon and it'ched on a lot
of these things. But you know that the premature baby
thing is so interesting, like there were fewer apnees, which
(24:06):
meant the babies breathed better, their whole systems calmed down.
And yet how many neonatal intensive care units are using music?
I mean very, very few. And so this gave me
a passion of how do we get this information out
there in the real world of all these things that
(24:26):
music can do. And it isn't just random music. It's
music matched to what you need. So let me give
you a couple examples. So that thing on ADHD was
super interesting. It's a great little study. To my knowledge,
it hasn't been replicated. I'd love to see it replicated.
But what they did is they played music either with
(24:50):
lyrics or out without lyrics, to kids with ADHD and
to kids without ADHD while they read. It turned out
the kids that had a AD they're reading comprehension went
up when they listen to music. The kids without ADHD
not so much for reading comprehension kind of went that way. So,
(25:14):
you know, music it's it's not a one size fits
all thing. If you're anxious and you love rap music.
I actually mapped a volunteer on this of someone who
was anxious and loved rap music, and the rap music
made the anxiety go up even though he loved the music.
So really, learning how to use music for what it
(25:37):
is you need is the trick. And that's not always
easy to tell because it's not always the music you
like or you're drawn to that's the best for you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that. I remember
years ago listening to the late Wayne Dyer talking about
the effects positive and negative effects and things. And I
guess his son was a youngster and he was listening
to rap music. And I'm not being judgmental, I'm just
(26:08):
return repeating this that he had his son do the
muscle testing that doctor David Hawkins researched and invented, where
if your body is in tune with it your arm,
you know, you push down, your arm stays strong and
if it's has a disempowering effect, your arm will drop immediately.
(26:29):
And Wayne Dyer did that with his son with the
music in his arm, just it disempowered him every time
and he didn't realize that. But yeah, doctor David Hawkins
work on muscle testing is great. Well, I'm sure you're
well aware of that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And I don't want to pick on rap music because
I as you just said, which you weren't either. You know,
rap music for certain people can be good. So I
want to talk about heavy metal for a minute. Sure,
it's really interesting. I'm not a big fan, However, I
have clients that are big fans. And what happens with
heavy metal is it's so intense. If you're sitting there
(27:09):
ruminating about something and you get in and you start
listening to heavy metal, it drives everything else out of
your mind. So they're sort of there can be a
cleansing quality to some of this super intense music, and
especially for people with PTSD or other kind of really
(27:34):
preoccupying let's say ailments, the intensity of music like that
can be very, very powerful, and it will help them
go into a transcendent state. It's quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and you know, you're exactly right. It's not just
a particular form of music. It's any form of music
or sound that is chaotic. I mean, I'm a big
jazz fan and I almost always have it playing, and
I'm a big fan of John Coltrane, and John Coltrane
plays stuff, but he has some very chaotic stuff that
he recorded during a chaotic part of his life. And
(28:11):
I'll literally be on the other side of the room
and I'll realize it, go, oh my god, why am
I feeling so weird? I have to run over. And
it's not just a lot of jazz. They just go
into this discordant stuff. But yeah, it can be heavy metal,
it can be wrapped, it could be something that is
just we already have us enough chaos in our life
and everything. We don't need that added to our life
(28:32):
and to our brain.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Well, you know what's interesting to me about what you
just said is that you are conscious of what it
was doing to you. Most of us are not conscious
of what it's doing to us. And when we can
start to ask ourselves, oh, what am I playing and
what am I feeling, then you can start to really
(28:55):
curate playlist for yourself. And you know, the research basically
shows there's two variables here. One is activation, which is
how energetic the music is, right, is it calm and
peaceful or is it you know, bright and fast? And
then the other one is valence, which is is it
(29:15):
positive or kind of sad? And we want certain combinations
of these create certain emotions in us. And when we
can pick these out and use them. And you know,
I have a great workshop called Music the Brain and
Healing that I do. It's basically a two day workshop.
I'm trying to figure out how to get it down
(29:37):
into one day where we basically talk about this, like,
if you want to move your brain into these different states,
what is it you want to pay attention to in
the music that you expose yourself to and how do
you design a playlist for yourself to do that? And
once you become aware of these variables, then you can
(29:59):
become a really good consumer of music in order to
really optimize your own health and well being. I mean,
music is powerful, they they there's some studies showing it
helps the immune system, right, so, and it's so easy,
like if you you know, you can go to the website.
(30:20):
Our website's Music and Healing dot net by the way,
if anybody wants to look, and I posted some pre
and post brain imaging pictures of the brain before listening
to a song and after listening to a song, so
you can actually see how these networks change and it's
just stunning. But if you want to use this, then
(30:42):
you have to think about where is it your brain is,
where is it? Where do you want it to go?
And how is that music impacting you, which is something
most of us don't think about. We just you know, oh,
next song.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, and you know, use music as an example. You're right,
most people have no cognizance on the effect that they have,
the especially that the disempowering sound and that comes in
many other forms in the world. But you know, obviously
music canon does have a role in healing. Are there
(31:19):
some examples of healing that you've experienced with your patients
in your neuroscience and psychology practice.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Well, you know, I can tell you a couple of them.
I mean, one is this issue of sleep, which so
many people have trouble with sleep right now, and I'm
you're a life coach, shall I'm going to give the
disclaimer first. If you're not eating right, if you're poor nutrition,
(31:47):
and you're not creating an environment for yourself to calm
down at night and let your you know, the activation
system of your body calm down, and you're not getting
out of quod exercise, you can't put a song on
and it's going to cause you to fall asleep like that.
We've probably been misusing sleep medications like this for years,
(32:08):
where we want to in our culture, we want to go, go, go,
and then we want to fall asleep like that and
then we want to get up and go go go
the next day. Physiologically, our bodies were not made for that.
So that's my disclaimer. You have to make sure you
have these other parts in place first, and that's just
(32:30):
what would be called good sleep highgiene. But the other
thing is if your brain is stuck on, what you
want to do is to expose it to information that
brings it down. So you just keep You know, you've
mentioned several times here that your brain and probably many
people's brains right now, is getting too much sort of tense,
(32:52):
anxiety inducing input. So we want to bring we want
to acknowledge that. And way of acknowledging that we can
actually expose ourselves to minor keys or like breakup songs.
Let me give you an example wandering around here, So
bring me back to the point if I lose my point.
But you know, when you have a breakup, you don't
(33:14):
just want to hear the most cheerful song in the world,
right You want that emotion acknowledge. So that's why we
have breakup songs. If you get stuck in a breakup song,
that's the bad part. If two years later you're still
listening to the breakup song, then it's time to move on.
So let's say you want to go to sleep at night,
(33:35):
your brain is all busy. You want to kind of
slowly bring that brain down through those frequencies. And if
you have curiated music to do that that will help
your brain calm down and help you sleep. But it's
not some sort of magical cure. But it's really interesting.
(33:59):
This woman that has had severe PTSD that started listening
to this album over and over three or four times
a day, started to sleep and then she started to
take naps. And so that's one example. And by the way,
if you've had PTSD for many, many years and you
(34:20):
haven't been able to sleep, that means everything. I mean,
you can imagine what it must be like to be
that kind of torture where you're on edge all the
time for years and years. The stroke thing is that
the stroke story I'll tell you is very sort of
an interesting story because this was one of those ones
(34:45):
where the person really feels like I was sent to
them by some outside agency, whether you want to call
it God or whatever you want to call it. But
this person had a relative that had a stroke and
they were having trouble walking. And there's some actually some
really really cool literature on which parts of the brain
(35:08):
which genres of music activate. So not all genres activate
your brain in the same way, and some activate one
part of your brain more than others. So I asked
her where that stroke was and picked out music that
activated that part of the brain, and like they she had,
(35:29):
the person listened to it, and the guy had like
dramatic improvement in twenty four hours. People couldn't believe it,
but I think it was partly because his brain was ready,
and then when it got that extra stimulation, because the
brain tries to mimic the frequencies that it hears in
the music, it got that extra stimulation, it just put
(35:49):
him over the top and wham, everything started to happen.
So exciting to hear.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, yeah, that is amazing. I just loved to hear that. So,
you know, do you think that if people actually became
more aware of both the positive and negative effects of
music and sound play in our life, they could actually
consciously control both their mental and physical health better.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Oh? I totally do. Yeah, you know, sure of course.
And I'm not saying music is everything. It's not, but
it's you know, if so you let's say you have
trouble sleeping and you go and pay twenty bucks to
download the songs on the website, It's like, why wouldn't
(36:38):
you do that? If it takes a couple of points
of pain off your chronic pain. So one of the
things we saw on here is that it in many
some of our volunteers started to normalize the chronic pain network.
So if you get a point or two off your pain,
why wouldn't you do it? I love music because it's
so accessible and it's so cheap, Like you can pay
(36:59):
thousands of dollars to come and see me, or you
could try playing a little music first, or you could
do both, but you know, why not use music? It's
it's just such a lovely intervention. And one of the
things we tried to do in this album is make
the music stand on its own because we want you
(37:22):
to like listening to it. So the songs are pretty,
you know, they're enjoyable. If you don't like one, put
them in a playlist, give that one. And so when
you have music that you love to listen to, then
it makes it easier to experience the effect of it.
(37:43):
Although there is data to show that even if people
don't like the music, it does change the brain. But
how many times are you going to listen to it
if you don't like it?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, or you know it's interesting too. I have realized
and I've read many articles about this music actually enhances
plants and the way they grow and how well they grow.
I have a plant that is around classical music all
the time that I play, and it grows fantastically.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I'm the person with the black thumb, So you're
the one and on that clearly I need to be
playing more music to my plants. Yeah, yeah, you know,
I think there's a reason. I mean, we've had music,
drumming and all these I mean all this stuff since
(38:37):
the dawn of time, right, Like, there's a reason we're
so attracted to music as humans, and I think because
we just take it for granted. But this is all
information about how powerful music is in our lives.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Well, one other thing that I'm very curious about, and
you touched on this earlier, what is this thing called
audio visual entrainment? How does that at work?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, So there's a great guy from Canada's name's Dave
sever S, I E V E. R. And I think
on his website, I think's mindlive dot com and if
anybody's interested in checking it out and what audio visual entrainment.
(39:21):
So let's say I'm going to go back to insomnia.
It's a great example because many of us experience that.
Often what's happening is then there's a sleep network in
your brain and that network gets stuck. So beta, and
I think Tom talked some about this in his talk.
So beta is this sort of bright eyed, bushy tailed
(39:41):
wave where you're on and you're engaged, and I'm making
I'm sure I'm making beta right now because I loved
talking about this stuff. It's great if you want to
be a student or you're giving a speech, but it's
not so great if you're falling asleep. So if your
brain gets stuck in beta, you want to nudget out
there so it can go down to alpha, which is
(40:03):
that zen calming wave, and then into theta, which is
that pre sleep wave, and then into delta, which is
the restorative wave that happens in sleep. So audio visual
entrainment what it does is you put on a pair
of glasses and it flashes lights. So one of the
protocols there for insomnia would start in alpha and it
(40:26):
would flash lights, say twelve times per second, which you
can't actually perceive, right, your brain doesn't perceive it. You
feel lights are flashing. But and then you can put
earphones on and it'll put in binaual beats at that
same rate, and because the brain likes to mimic these things.
(40:48):
The brain's a patterning organism, so it likes to mimic
what's coming in. And it'll be like, oh, I'm getting
these signals that I should be in alpha, and it'll
start to make alpha and then it'll switch down after
so many minutes into theta and it'll start flashing the
lights and data and then your brain says, oh, now
(41:12):
I'm in this like zen alpha state, but I could
actually go down into this data state. And so audio
visual entrainment puts in both hearing and light in order
to help your brain change state. And there's many protocols.
I mean, you can do ones for focus, for you know, sleep,
(41:32):
as I just mentioned, for meditation, many others and Dave
and other people have collected quite a bit of data
on this.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
So audio visual chainment is really kind of like a
reinforcement along with musical frequencies.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Well, yeah, it is putting in brain frequencies that it
wants to be the brain to mimic. And in a way,
that's what we were doing through this other mode with
our music, right, So we you know, we started out
and uh, Copino would play a note and I would
look at the oscilloscope and see what's the frequency range
(42:12):
in the overtones of that note, because we know that
the brain is going to want to take that in
and imitate that, and we don't want to go way
too high, right, We don't want to be playing piccolo
type notes when you're trying to calm down. So we
want the brain to be able to mimic in this
(42:34):
particular case, you know, these more calming frequencies we're actually
going to eventually hopefully we're working on an album for
PTSD next and eventually you know, we'll have some other
ones focus all that, but that they will be different
because what we want your brain to mimic is different.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Well, I really, in a moment, I do want to
talk more about your work with Peppino or August, you know,
the guitarist, just going back for a moment. Two people
having such a hard time falling asleep and being having
a RESTful sleep. Can you imagine being a young mother
or a young father with kids who are sick, and
(43:15):
you know, you come home from a stressful job and
you know you get to bed late and the kids
are crying you have to get up. I mean they're
probably thinking, oh, yeah, sure a song is going to
calm me down, but you know it's got to help.
I mean, that's today's modern world. I don't know how
people do it.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, and I'm going to say I don't think a
song is the solution to that. It's another piece of evidence.
So what I tell is very hard, and I've worked
with many, many families around this issue. I'll tell you,
and our culture is really pushing people, putting people in
(43:52):
a tough position because you have this where people are
working and then kids are in sports and they're not
even getting hometel a at night, and then they have
to do their homework. Well, probably about eight at night
is when you need to start reving down right, so
you're in sympathetic nervous system, arousal. That's the kind of active,
(44:13):
you know, active part of your body. It takes an
hour or two for most people's systems to calm down.
So theoretically, what you'd be doing is walking around the
block and gazing at the trees, take warm bath, cuddling
up on the couch, you know, doing a crossword puzzle
that's easy, reading a bedtime story, and we have this
(44:37):
idea that we can just switch off and on music
isn't going to solve that. Now playing it in the
background may help a little bit. I just got a
text yesterday from somebody and she said, Wow, we'd put
your album on and not and and our our dogs
have calmed down. We've calmed down and our dogs have
(44:57):
calmed down. And I was like, well, that means a
lot if you've got a couple high for dogs, But
you know they were also sitting in a calming setting.
And I think it's very hard. I experienced this myself
when my child was young, and people would say, oh,
just go take a warm bath. I'm like, you gotta
(45:17):
be kidding me. Even go in the bathroom and hut
the door without a child at the door. Oh, let's
not like tell people to do things that are unrealistic.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Well, let's go ahead now and talk about your collaboration
with Peppino Dia Augustino, a world class guitarist, to create
these specific brain states and what put Pinos recorded nineteen CDs,
played with some really famous musicians. How did you meet
Pupino and end up recording with him?
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, the guy's incredible. Oh, this is so funny. So
I met him on the internet. But I when I
had that experience where I was like, man, I got
to do this music stuff. I really got obsessed with
this idea of learning to play percussive fingerstyle guitar, which
is a certain type of guitar that I was very
(46:12):
intrigued with, and I was looking around for someone who
could teach me and I couldn't find anybody locally, and
I actually found Callum Graham online and he was my
first teacher, and he was actually the one that encouraged
me to get back into the pipe organ and think
about the pipe organ and guitar combination. When I had
(46:34):
that idea, it was like you should try that. I
was like, wow, Callum, are you insane? But it actually
turned out he wasn't insane. And then Callum took off
and went on tour and I had to find somebody else,
and I found Peppino. I just searched online and I
wrote him an email and I was like, you know,
(46:55):
I'm just a beginner and a local guitarist that I
knew in Boise. When I was telling her, and he said,
oh yeah, I'll take you on that. He just emailed
me back, Yes, I'll take you on. And a friend
of mine in Boise said, Barb, you didn't just go
to the priest, you went to God. What it's like,
(47:18):
Oh my god, totally intimidated. And I, you know, I
was totally intimidated by him. But he was such a
kind and supportive person. And then when I had this
idea which I really had gotten from reading a neuroscience
article on migrain. And I'll just tell you about that
(47:43):
article briefly, because it talks about migraine as a dysrhythmia,
and dysrhythmia means one part of the brain is operating
too slow and the other parts are trying to figure
out what to do. And it struck me like, oh, well,
we can replace the brain with music, Like there's data
on this. And oh I said to Pipino, like, what
(48:06):
if we got together for a week and would you
be interested? And he said yes. And we had never
met each other in person, so I think it was
a bit of both of us. I mean, I can't
speak for him, I'll speak for myself. It was a
little bit of risk, you know, to like get together
with somebody for a week that you've never really seen
(48:28):
in person. And luckily, I mean the guy's just musicians
at his level are just so rare and beautiful, and
he's so focused, you know. He was so kind and
humble and not at all you know, like, well, this
is the way it has to be, because you know
sometimes musicians can get that way. And I'm asking him, well,
(48:51):
can we not go above this note and can we
resolve this phrase this way and not that way? And
he kept his eye on the goal and we just
composed these songs and it was just so luminous really
working with him, and I hope that comes across in
the music. And then I recorded the pipe organ parts afterwards.
(49:16):
So I got to go into Grace Cathedral and another
church here, the Unitarian Church has a pipe organ at
night by myself when it was quiet, and record the
pipe organ parts and that was just so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
And so you're getting together with Peppino resulted in your
new CD calling the Storm right, which people can download
off your website.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Yep, so Music and Healing dot net net is the
website and they can download or buy CDs or USBs.
I will say, you know, we're looking to do live
concerts and.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
If you ever get wondering about that.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Yeah, it's We did one in Boise and wow. You know,
Peppino talked about this a little bit in another interview.
We did, but we didn't have people clap between because
we wanted people to stay in the state. And so
we just played through this album live and the deep
(50:18):
resonance of the pipe organ combined with the warm intimacy
of the guitar. Oh, It's given me chills just talking
about it was just incredible. So people closed their eyes
and I was I was mostly watching him because and
the pipe organ console was kind of blocking my view
(50:40):
of the people. But he said most people went into
kind of a trans state. Some people started to cry.
A guy came up afterwards and said his pain had
gone away. It was just, man, absolutely stunning, and I
think it was a combination of the resonance of Peppino
and me as performers and what we feel being transmitted
(51:04):
and then these live frequencies hitting you from both the
guitar and the organ is just incredible. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
So we are speaking with Dr Barbara Minton, a psychologist, neuroscientist,
musical healer and performer. Just amazing, amazing, stuff, and I'm
really excited to hear about this, and because you know,
I'm like I told you, Barbara, I am a huge musician.
(51:35):
I literally there's hardly any time in my day where
I don't have some music on that's keeping me healed
and healthy and whole. So one last question real quick
here is what you're doing. Is that popular within the
world of psychology or are you kind of breaking new
(51:56):
ground here?
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Yeah, I would say it's not popular in the world
of psych cology. You know, we all get trained in
our own little narrow areas, and psychology is really focused
on talk therapy generally speaking, and I love talk therapy.
I actually think talk therapy, neurotherapy and music have a
(52:17):
very synergistic effect. So people that want to optimize themselves
can use multiple techniques. But yeah, I would say most
of my colleagues no. But I have done two workshops
with Continuing Education workshops for mental health professionals where I
(52:39):
show them how to curate and use music as an
adjunct to therapy, which is so easy to do right,
and to integrate it into talk therapy. And we've gotten
straight you know, like the ratings are zero to five.
We've got straight fives every time, and we had, you know,
people who were I had one person that it was
(53:01):
on the faculty actually of another social work program, and
she'd been in the field for years and here she said,
this is hands down the best continuing at workshop I've
been to. So there's so much potential here and it's
so easy to integrate. If you are a mental health
professional or a coach, you know, you really should think
(53:23):
about learning more about music and how to use it
to help your clients with their outcomes.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, you are a groundbreaker and you're my very first
pipe organ performer.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
I've ever heard on trying.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
And you see I think he said, you do a
two day workshop. Is that live? Is that virtual? On
your website?
Speaker 3 (53:49):
Yeah, so we have there's actually two different workshops. One
is this Music the Brain and Healing one I just
alluded to a couple of times. We have another one
that Peppino and I and colleague of mine did in June,
which was fantastic, which is how to use different creative
avenues to develop your to help find and develop your
(54:12):
authentic self in a low pressure, non performance based environment.
And that one's really fun. And those are both in
person workshops. And then we also have these concerts, so
the concert, the Calm, the Storm concert, and then we
also have pipe organ guitar concerts that we can sort
(54:32):
of add in there. So there's lots of coal stuff
going on. The workshops are in person right now, but
eventually we will do some of this stuff online if people,
if there's interest, we'd love to do it online. It's
better in person, of course, especially with the frequency based stuff,
(54:53):
but you can still get the idea of it online.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Man, I'm going to have to fly onto Boise, Idaho
to hear your next concert at there.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
I know you better.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, Barbara, we're gonna wind up here again. You're you actually.
I think you have two websites, Music and Healing dot
net and then your own personal one, Dr Barbminton dot com,
Doctor Barbminton dot com.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Right, yeah, the drb the doctor Barbminton one is really
kind of my psychology one that talks more feedback in
the psychology side, and then the music one is Music
and Healing dot Net. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Well, this has been an amazing conversation and what you
are doing and your friend Peppino, thank you so much.
And and there I will tell people doctor Minton has
a couple of music videos on YouTube. If you just
want to search those out. Maybe I'll find the links
and put them in the show notes. Some people can
check it out. And thank you, Barbara, you're doing some
(55:52):
amazing things through the world.
Speaker 3 (55:54):
Well, thank you so much for letting me come and talk.
It's just so fun.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
This has been another episode of World Awakenings, the Fast
Track to Enlightenment with host Carl Gruber, a certified Law
of attraction life coach. We welcome you to tune in
to each and every episode of World Awakenings as we
open your mind, your heart, and your eyes to the
fact that the world's population is now more than ever
(56:32):
awakening to the truth of all things spiritual, metaphysical, and enlightening,
and just how much they play an all important role
in our moment to moment daily life. Much love and
light to you, my friend, and thank you for tuning
into World Awakenings.
This is World Awakenings the Fast Track to Enlightenment with
your host Carl Gruber. World Awakenings is a podcast dedicated
to opening your mind, your heart, and your eyes to
the fact that the world's population is now more than ever,
awakening to all things spiritual, metaphysical, and enlightening and just
(00:27):
how they play an all important role in our daily life.
So join Carl on this enlightening experience as he interviews
metaphysical and spiritual experts to discuss, debate, and delve deeply
into the house and whis of this world wide awakening.
(00:51):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's in the air. The time is now.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We're all waking up.
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We're waking up.
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We're all waking up.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's all shifting, new vibration. It's you, it's you, it's me,
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Speaker 3 (01:12):
Uria.
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Awaken with us, Awaken with us, Awaken with us new
REALITYTV dot Com.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Hey, welcome to episode number two nineteen of World Awakenings
of Fast Track to Enlightenment. I'm your host, Carl Gruber. Now,
when this show began in twenty eighteen, our main mission
was to find the answer to the question why, now
more than ever, are the people of the world awakening
to all things spiritual, metaphysical and enlightening. And so with
(01:53):
this show we continue this quest with yet another beautiful
and amazing expert as our guest today to help give
us some insight into the answer to this question. Now,
before we head off to meet our guests, I'd like
to remind you that not only can you watch this
show on YouTube, but World Awakenings is now available to
watch on the brand new TV network New Reality TV.
(02:17):
Just click the link below in the show notes to
find out more. All Right, off we go to meet
our guests. Today, we meet Barbara Minton, PhD, a psychologist
who explores neuroscience, music, the beauty of nature, and healing
in what she calls the intersection of music, science and
the heart. Now. In her clinical practice, doctor Minton uses neurofeedback,
(02:40):
audio visual and treatment, neuromeditation, and other frequency based techniques
to increase a person's optimal functioning. She is also a
professional musician who has partner with Peppino Agostino, a world
class guitarist, to create music to create specific brain states
related to improved functioning now. They have recorded and produced
(03:03):
in an album called Calm the Storm, which we'll talk about,
which was thoughtfully composed to help normalize brain networks associated
with chronic pain, migrain, and insomnia.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think right now the world could use something in
a calm our brain networks.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Welcome to Thank you so much. Yes, it's always nice
to be calm and regulated in spite of what's going
on outside.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
You right, yeah, yeah, and you know you got to
value those calm and regulated moments really. But you know,
I'm curious as to whether psychology and neuroscience or music
came first in your life. Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, Well, I think, like a lot of people, music
came first in my life. I started piano lessons when
I was a child, and I guess I never had
the sense to quit. I actually went to college when
I went to music school, and I chose the very
trendy instrument of pipe organ to play. And then I
(04:08):
realized after a while that was going to be a
tough road to make a living as a concert pipe organist.
And I found another love in psychology. And so I
just feel so fortunate to have been able to go
down this path and now to be able to integrate
these two fields that I love so much. It's just
such a joy.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, and I guess you can't really have a pipe
organ at home, right you have to.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's a little rough. Yeah, you know, we do have
some pretty good sample pipe organs that you can play
on the keyboard, but it's definitely not the same. There's
something about the pipe organ because of the substantial frequencies
it creates that really coming through speakers tends to truncate
(04:53):
those frequencies. And so being live with a pipe organ
is like nothing else.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Did you go to a college or university where they
had a pipe organ and you could?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I did so. I went to University of Denver and
they had a pipe organ there. Actually, many universities still
do have pipe organs, especially if they came from a
religious tradition. So I'm sitting here in Berkeley, California right now,
and about a mile away at University of California, Berkeley,
they have a beautiful pipe organ, and many older churches
(05:27):
still have pipe organs. So you know, as an itinerant
pipe organ, I go around in beg may I please
practice on a pipe? And then it's really fun because
I get to meet all these interesting people that are
also pipe organists and love this this this very ancient,
beautiful instrument.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So, you know, I'm just thinking. It seems to me
there is one particular guy, maybe a couple of them,
who have been professional pipe organ performers that are traveling
around the world. Gosh, I know he came through a
years ago here in Columbus, Ohio, because our Ohio Theater
has a beautiful pipe organ. I don't know, maybe you
know his name, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
There's actually several people that have managed to make a
living doing this, and they really are the top of
the heap. If you ever get a chance to go
listen to them, you should grab it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There's a guy who plays in Notre Dame and Callum Graham,
who's the first guitarist that I worked with on this,
trying to compose specific music in order to create certain
frequencies in the brain. He had been touring in Europe
and he walked into a cathedral he hadn't heard the
pipe organ before, and he said, it just blew up. Yeah,
(06:42):
you know, people that play these beautiful old pipe organs,
and they're really virtuosic players. There's just nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And usually pipe organs being in a church or cathedral,
the acoustics are phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yes, so there's a beautiful cathedral here in San Francisco
called Grace Cathedral, and you know these cathedrals often were
designed for the resonance of the pipes and so just
standing and here listening, so you know, music is not
only processed by your ear, so that's one thing we
(07:16):
think about, but it's also processed by your body. So
we have these things called mechano receptors in our skin
and our feet. They're the things that help us stand
up straight. They have all kinds of functions, but one
of them is they resonate and perceive vibration. And so
there's actually a really fascinating study done where they put
(07:39):
people in an MRI where they can image the brain,
and they actually played them quote sounds that you couldn't hear,
so they were below frequencies that the ear could pick up,
but the brain registered them as sounds. And so we're
processing sounds in a much more profound way than most
(07:59):
people think of and probably are primitive ideas. And so
when you get in a situation, I think heavy metal
music is another kind of domain for people that like
that type of music. You're getting inputs on an incredible
number of frequencies to your body, and we've people people
(08:20):
experienced this as transformative in some cases.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So with that being said, what what led you to
study in practice? Psychology?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You know, that's so funny because when I when you
go to music school, all you do is learn music.
You don't take other, you know, kind of basic college courses.
So I was a junior by the time I decided
to change my major, and I just said, I got
to get out of music, so I need to take
all these general ed courses. I'll just take them. And
(08:53):
my advisor said, oh, you can't do that. You have
to declare major. And I said, well, what's the major
with the least requirements? All do that while I'm trying
to figure out what I really want to do. And
they said Psychology. I'd never taken a psych class. I
was like, okay, put me down as a psych major.
So I go take Intro to Psychology. I thought, oh,
(09:13):
this is really pretty interesting. I think I should take
another psych class. And then I just got fascinated by
what is it that makes people tick? How do cultures
and societies work all these big questions, and I became
very interested actually in psychology of religion. The first publication
(09:33):
I ever got in a journal as an undergraduate was
on how religious versus non religious people felt about death,
and then it just kind of went on from there.
It was a fortuitous mistake, I guess, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just snowballed from there. So what instinctly and you practiced
is what is neuroscience and is an offshoot of psychology.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, it's a great question. So it's really interesting. Most
of us think as psychologists, and you're actually a life coach, right,
so you do this too. So people come to you
with a problem or something they want to achieve, and
we talk with them and we help them find a
path forward on that. Neurotherapy is a little bit different
(10:24):
because what we tend to do in neurotherapy is we
look at what the brain is doing. So is your
brain stuck in a pattern of firing that isn't working
for you? So, for example, if you're anxious, the anxiety
network of your brain is not turning off, So the
brain fires in networks kind of like how we have
(10:47):
networks of airplanes flying around, right, So we have hubs
like Denver, New York, LA. And these planes fly in
and out of these hubs and then they go to
smaller places. Well, the brain works like that too, so
you have these networks in there, but the networks can
kind of get a little bit off track. So in neurotherapy,
(11:10):
what you do is you work directly with the brain
by working with electron cephalogram EEG and rewarding the brain.
So you monitor the brain and you reward it every
time it starts to move out of its stuck state
or some you can use audio visual entrainment where you
flashlights in people's eyes and play sound in their ears
(11:31):
to kind of get them out of that state. And
then there's transcranial direct current stimulation where you actually put
in very small amounts of electricity. There's many, many different approaches,
but these would all kind of come under the general
rubric of neurotherapy and neuromeditation. Your listeners might be interested.
(11:52):
So there's a guy in Eugene, Oregon, Jeff terrant T,
a R R E N T, and he's put together
a of protocols where you can put sensors on your
brain and actually it will reward you for going into
a meditative state, and so many people that are meditators
(12:12):
like to use this or photo biomodulation is another approach
where you flash lights on your brain to kind of
help your brain optimize these states. So there's so much
cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
In this area. Oh, I would say, gosh, yeah, there's
so much you talked about. One thing I would like
to find out. Your work is described as bridging science
and the soul.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How so, wow, that's a big question, you know. So
I'm going to come back to music for a minute.
Music has there's many portals to a spiritual connection, right,
So meditation might be one of them, walking in nature
might be one of them. Sometimes it comes out of
(12:58):
nowhere and you just get act right. These things are
all documented. Music can also be a portal towards something bigger,
and many musicians this is why they go into music,
because it's an emanation of who they really are in
this world or what their soul is in this world.
(13:22):
And when they play this music, they go into a
state like they don't experience in other realms. And to
be able to gift that to other people, I think
is one reason why many musicians like to play. And
so the question I really asked in this album, and
(13:44):
I want to just say how grateful and lucky I
was that Peppino Dougostino worked with me, because this guy
is just I mean, he's a world class virtuosic musician.
And I really asked this question, like, can we compose
curated music to help the brain become kind of calmer,
(14:09):
more normal and open itself up to a sort of
a bigger experience. And I'm not saying this works for everybody.
This is not a treatment, but for some people. I mean,
we had one guy say, you know, I had a
religious experience. Basically when I listened to this music, I
felt like all my sins were forgiven and I could
(14:32):
just walk forward with a clean slate. And to me,
hearing feedback like that about this music just means everything.
You know, that opens something for this guy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, and you and I had a little conversation before
we started recording here. I mean, myself, I always have
some type of calm, peaceful music. I mean, I grew
up in the hippiear or so, you know, I'm used
to that, you know a while, and crazy psychedelic music,
which I still like and I can listen to it,
but I can no longer listen to it for a
long duration, you know, and go, Okay, that's good. Let
(15:05):
me put on something quiet and peaceful, and it just
you know, I can go through my day a little
more relaxed and productive.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, and I think you know, I actually talked with
somebody a couple of weeks ago and they were doing
a take home exam for their PhD. Which you know,
these things are a little nerve wracking, but I played
this in the background. You said, it changed everything, you know,
the writing started to flow more smoothly. It's because it
helped his brain kind of stay in that zone where
(15:36):
it was most optimized. And that's such a beautiful use
of music.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Let us take a break right now to enjoy the
music of doctor Barbara Minton playing acoustic guitar and Callum
Graham on electric guitar on their song Glace Your point. Well,
(21:15):
you know, there's obviously a deep spiritual connection for you
here in your work. Have you had any particular spiritual
experiences that have led you on this path, any that
you care to talk about? And if not, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You know, it's so funny. I kind of got into
this that way. I was actually watching some YouTube videos
of some music and it just kind of struck me
like this was something I had to do, and almost
felt like some sort of external force was pulling me
in this direction. And this happened about three years ago,
(21:54):
and it really changed the focus of my work. So
you know, how those things happen, I can't explain, but
it was something I really couldn't ignore, and so we'll
just see what happens. I hope it's useful to other people.
My whole life has really been around engaging with suffering
(22:17):
and trying to do something about it, offering different vehicles
for people to feel better. And you know, hopefully this
is another one.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well and too let's go back to I guess this
would be more in that neuroscience area with music. Studies
reveal that music's diverse health benefits include promoting weight gain
in NICEU babies, which I have heard this before, alleviating depression,
enhancing reading comprehension and individuals with ADHD, even accelerating recovery
(22:50):
and stroke patients, in influencing other wide range conditions. How
and why does music do this? I think he kind
of touched on this a little bit already.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, you know what's I'm going to just take a
step back and say a few years back, a colleague
of mine asked me to write a chapter on music
and neuromodulation, which basically means changing the brain for a textbook.
And I hadn't you know, I always knew music was
(23:21):
out there, it was cool, it did stuff, But it
wasn't until I immersed myself in hundreds and hundreds of
these articles that it just blew me away how powerful
music was and how people were not using it. Like
we have all this data in the research literature, like
if you have to go through a bad procedure at
(23:43):
the hospital, music decreases your anxiety, Like who wouldn't want
to do that? If you have? And I listened to
your interview with Tom Kenyon and it'ched on a lot
of these things. But you know that the premature baby
thing is so interesting, like there were fewer apnees, which
(24:06):
meant the babies breathed better, their whole systems calmed down.
And yet how many neonatal intensive care units are using music?
I mean very, very few. And so this gave me
a passion of how do we get this information out
there in the real world of all these things that
(24:26):
music can do. And it isn't just random music. It's
music matched to what you need. So let me give
you a couple examples. So that thing on ADHD was
super interesting. It's a great little study. To my knowledge,
it hasn't been replicated. I'd love to see it replicated.
But what they did is they played music either with
(24:50):
lyrics or out without lyrics, to kids with ADHD and
to kids without ADHD while they read. It turned out
the kids that had a AD they're reading comprehension went
up when they listen to music. The kids without ADHD
not so much for reading comprehension kind of went that way. So,
(25:14):
you know, music it's it's not a one size fits
all thing. If you're anxious and you love rap music.
I actually mapped a volunteer on this of someone who
was anxious and loved rap music, and the rap music
made the anxiety go up even though he loved the music.
So really, learning how to use music for what it
(25:37):
is you need is the trick. And that's not always
easy to tell because it's not always the music you
like or you're drawn to that's the best for you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that. I remember
years ago listening to the late Wayne Dyer talking about
the effects positive and negative effects and things. And I
guess his son was a youngster and he was listening
to rap music. And I'm not being judgmental, I'm just
(26:08):
return repeating this that he had his son do the
muscle testing that doctor David Hawkins researched and invented, where
if your body is in tune with it your arm,
you know, you push down, your arm stays strong and
if it's has a disempowering effect, your arm will drop immediately.
(26:29):
And Wayne Dyer did that with his son with the
music in his arm, just it disempowered him every time
and he didn't realize that. But yeah, doctor David Hawkins
work on muscle testing is great. Well, I'm sure you're
well aware of that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And I don't want to pick on rap music because
I as you just said, which you weren't either. You know,
rap music for certain people can be good. So I
want to talk about heavy metal for a minute. Sure,
it's really interesting. I'm not a big fan, However, I
have clients that are big fans. And what happens with
heavy metal is it's so intense. If you're sitting there
(27:09):
ruminating about something and you get in and you start
listening to heavy metal, it drives everything else out of
your mind. So they're sort of there can be a
cleansing quality to some of this super intense music, and
especially for people with PTSD or other kind of really
(27:34):
preoccupying let's say ailments, the intensity of music like that
can be very, very powerful, and it will help them
go into a transcendent state. It's quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and you know, you're exactly right. It's not just
a particular form of music. It's any form of music
or sound that is chaotic. I mean, I'm a big
jazz fan and I almost always have it playing, and
I'm a big fan of John Coltrane, and John Coltrane
plays stuff, but he has some very chaotic stuff that
he recorded during a chaotic part of his life. And
(28:11):
I'll literally be on the other side of the room
and I'll realize it, go, oh my god, why am
I feeling so weird? I have to run over. And
it's not just a lot of jazz. They just go
into this discordant stuff. But yeah, it can be heavy metal,
it can be wrapped, it could be something that is
just we already have us enough chaos in our life
and everything. We don't need that added to our life
(28:32):
and to our brain.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Well, you know what's interesting to me about what you
just said is that you are conscious of what it
was doing to you. Most of us are not conscious
of what it's doing to us. And when we can
start to ask ourselves, oh, what am I playing and
what am I feeling, then you can start to really
(28:55):
curate playlist for yourself. And you know, the research basically
shows there's two variables here. One is activation, which is
how energetic the music is, right, is it calm and
peaceful or is it you know, bright and fast? And
then the other one is valence, which is is it
(29:15):
positive or kind of sad? And we want certain combinations
of these create certain emotions in us. And when we
can pick these out and use them. And you know,
I have a great workshop called Music the Brain and
Healing that I do. It's basically a two day workshop.
I'm trying to figure out how to get it down
(29:37):
into one day where we basically talk about this, like,
if you want to move your brain into these different states,
what is it you want to pay attention to in
the music that you expose yourself to and how do
you design a playlist for yourself to do that? And
once you become aware of these variables, then you can
(29:59):
become a really good consumer of music in order to
really optimize your own health and well being. I mean,
music is powerful, they they there's some studies showing it
helps the immune system, right, so, and it's so easy,
like if you you know, you can go to the website.
(30:20):
Our website's Music and Healing dot net by the way,
if anybody wants to look, and I posted some pre
and post brain imaging pictures of the brain before listening
to a song and after listening to a song, so
you can actually see how these networks change and it's
just stunning. But if you want to use this, then
(30:42):
you have to think about where is it your brain is,
where is it? Where do you want it to go?
And how is that music impacting you, which is something
most of us don't think about. We just you know, oh,
next song.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, and you know, use music as an example. You're right,
most people have no cognizance on the effect that they have,
the especially that the disempowering sound and that comes in
many other forms in the world. But you know, obviously
music canon does have a role in healing. Are there
(31:19):
some examples of healing that you've experienced with your patients
in your neuroscience and psychology practice.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Well, you know, I can tell you a couple of them.
I mean, one is this issue of sleep, which so
many people have trouble with sleep right now, and I'm
you're a life coach, shall I'm going to give the
disclaimer first. If you're not eating right, if you're poor nutrition,
(31:47):
and you're not creating an environment for yourself to calm
down at night and let your you know, the activation
system of your body calm down, and you're not getting
out of quod exercise, you can't put a song on
and it's going to cause you to fall asleep like that.
We've probably been misusing sleep medications like this for years,
(32:08):
where we want to in our culture, we want to go, go, go,
and then we want to fall asleep like that and
then we want to get up and go go go
the next day. Physiologically, our bodies were not made for that.
So that's my disclaimer. You have to make sure you
have these other parts in place first, and that's just
(32:30):
what would be called good sleep highgiene. But the other
thing is if your brain is stuck on, what you
want to do is to expose it to information that
brings it down. So you just keep You know, you've
mentioned several times here that your brain and probably many
people's brains right now, is getting too much sort of tense,
(32:52):
anxiety inducing input. So we want to bring we want
to acknowledge that. And way of acknowledging that we can
actually expose ourselves to minor keys or like breakup songs.
Let me give you an example wandering around here, So
bring me back to the point if I lose my point.
But you know, when you have a breakup, you don't
(33:14):
just want to hear the most cheerful song in the world,
right You want that emotion acknowledge. So that's why we
have breakup songs. If you get stuck in a breakup song,
that's the bad part. If two years later you're still
listening to the breakup song, then it's time to move on.
So let's say you want to go to sleep at night,
(33:35):
your brain is all busy. You want to kind of
slowly bring that brain down through those frequencies. And if
you have curiated music to do that that will help
your brain calm down and help you sleep. But it's
not some sort of magical cure. But it's really interesting.
(33:59):
This woman that has had severe PTSD that started listening
to this album over and over three or four times
a day, started to sleep and then she started to
take naps. And so that's one example. And by the way,
if you've had PTSD for many, many years and you
(34:20):
haven't been able to sleep, that means everything. I mean,
you can imagine what it must be like to be
that kind of torture where you're on edge all the
time for years and years. The stroke thing is that
the stroke story I'll tell you is very sort of
an interesting story because this was one of those ones
(34:45):
where the person really feels like I was sent to
them by some outside agency, whether you want to call
it God or whatever you want to call it. But
this person had a relative that had a stroke and
they were having trouble walking. And there's some actually some
really really cool literature on which parts of the brain
(35:08):
which genres of music activate. So not all genres activate
your brain in the same way, and some activate one
part of your brain more than others. So I asked
her where that stroke was and picked out music that
activated that part of the brain, and like they she had,
(35:29):
the person listened to it, and the guy had like
dramatic improvement in twenty four hours. People couldn't believe it,
but I think it was partly because his brain was ready,
and then when it got that extra stimulation, because the
brain tries to mimic the frequencies that it hears in
the music, it got that extra stimulation, it just put
(35:49):
him over the top and wham, everything started to happen.
So exciting to hear.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, yeah, that is amazing. I just loved to hear that. So,
you know, do you think that if people actually became
more aware of both the positive and negative effects of
music and sound play in our life, they could actually
consciously control both their mental and physical health better.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Oh? I totally do. Yeah, you know, sure of course.
And I'm not saying music is everything. It's not, but
it's you know, if so you let's say you have
trouble sleeping and you go and pay twenty bucks to
download the songs on the website, It's like, why wouldn't
(36:38):
you do that? If it takes a couple of points
of pain off your chronic pain. So one of the
things we saw on here is that it in many
some of our volunteers started to normalize the chronic pain network.
So if you get a point or two off your pain,
why wouldn't you do it? I love music because it's
so accessible and it's so cheap, Like you can pay
(36:59):
thousands of dollars to come and see me, or you
could try playing a little music first, or you could
do both, but you know, why not use music? It's
it's just such a lovely intervention. And one of the
things we tried to do in this album is make
the music stand on its own because we want you
(37:22):
to like listening to it. So the songs are pretty,
you know, they're enjoyable. If you don't like one, put
them in a playlist, give that one. And so when
you have music that you love to listen to, then
it makes it easier to experience the effect of it.
(37:43):
Although there is data to show that even if people
don't like the music, it does change the brain. But
how many times are you going to listen to it
if you don't like it?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, or you know it's interesting too. I have realized
and I've read many articles about this music actually enhances
plants and the way they grow and how well they grow.
I have a plant that is around classical music all
the time that I play, and it grows fantastically.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I'm the person with the black thumb, So you're
the one and on that clearly I need to be
playing more music to my plants. Yeah, yeah, you know,
I think there's a reason. I mean, we've had music,
drumming and all these I mean all this stuff since
(38:37):
the dawn of time, right, Like, there's a reason we're
so attracted to music as humans, and I think because
we just take it for granted. But this is all
information about how powerful music is in our lives.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Well, one other thing that I'm very curious about, and
you touched on this earlier, what is this thing called
audio visual entrainment? How does that at work?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, So there's a great guy from Canada's name's Dave
sever S, I E V E. R. And I think
on his website, I think's mindlive dot com and if
anybody's interested in checking it out and what audio visual entrainment.
(39:21):
So let's say I'm going to go back to insomnia.
It's a great example because many of us experience that.
Often what's happening is then there's a sleep network in
your brain and that network gets stuck. So beta, and
I think Tom talked some about this in his talk.
So beta is this sort of bright eyed, bushy tailed
(39:41):
wave where you're on and you're engaged, and I'm making
I'm sure I'm making beta right now because I loved
talking about this stuff. It's great if you want to
be a student or you're giving a speech, but it's
not so great if you're falling asleep. So if your
brain gets stuck in beta, you want to nudget out
there so it can go down to alpha, which is
(40:03):
that zen calming wave, and then into theta, which is
that pre sleep wave, and then into delta, which is
the restorative wave that happens in sleep. So audio visual
entrainment what it does is you put on a pair
of glasses and it flashes lights. So one of the
protocols there for insomnia would start in alpha and it
(40:26):
would flash lights, say twelve times per second, which you
can't actually perceive, right, your brain doesn't perceive it. You
feel lights are flashing. But and then you can put
earphones on and it'll put in binaual beats at that
same rate, and because the brain likes to mimic these things.
(40:48):
The brain's a patterning organism, so it likes to mimic
what's coming in. And it'll be like, oh, I'm getting
these signals that I should be in alpha, and it'll
start to make alpha and then it'll switch down after
so many minutes into theta and it'll start flashing the
lights and data and then your brain says, oh, now
(41:12):
I'm in this like zen alpha state, but I could
actually go down into this data state. And so audio
visual entrainment puts in both hearing and light in order
to help your brain change state. And there's many protocols.
I mean, you can do ones for focus, for you know, sleep,
(41:32):
as I just mentioned, for meditation, many others and Dave
and other people have collected quite a bit of data
on this.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
So audio visual chainment is really kind of like a
reinforcement along with musical frequencies.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Well, yeah, it is putting in brain frequencies that it
wants to be the brain to mimic. And in a way,
that's what we were doing through this other mode with
our music, right, So we you know, we started out
and uh, Copino would play a note and I would
look at the oscilloscope and see what's the frequency range
(42:12):
in the overtones of that note, because we know that
the brain is going to want to take that in
and imitate that, and we don't want to go way
too high, right, We don't want to be playing piccolo
type notes when you're trying to calm down. So we
want the brain to be able to mimic in this
(42:34):
particular case, you know, these more calming frequencies we're actually
going to eventually hopefully we're working on an album for
PTSD next and eventually you know, we'll have some other
ones focus all that, but that they will be different
because what we want your brain to mimic is different.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Well, I really, in a moment, I do want to
talk more about your work with Peppino or August, you know,
the guitarist, just going back for a moment. Two people
having such a hard time falling asleep and being having
a RESTful sleep. Can you imagine being a young mother
or a young father with kids who are sick, and
(43:15):
you know, you come home from a stressful job and
you know you get to bed late and the kids
are crying you have to get up. I mean they're
probably thinking, oh, yeah, sure a song is going to
calm me down, but you know it's got to help.
I mean, that's today's modern world. I don't know how
people do it.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, and I'm going to say I don't think a
song is the solution to that. It's another piece of evidence.
So what I tell is very hard, and I've worked
with many, many families around this issue. I'll tell you,
and our culture is really pushing people, putting people in
(43:52):
a tough position because you have this where people are
working and then kids are in sports and they're not
even getting hometel a at night, and then they have
to do their homework. Well, probably about eight at night
is when you need to start reving down right, so
you're in sympathetic nervous system, arousal. That's the kind of active,
(44:13):
you know, active part of your body. It takes an
hour or two for most people's systems to calm down.
So theoretically, what you'd be doing is walking around the
block and gazing at the trees, take warm bath, cuddling
up on the couch, you know, doing a crossword puzzle
that's easy, reading a bedtime story, and we have this
(44:37):
idea that we can just switch off and on music
isn't going to solve that. Now playing it in the
background may help a little bit. I just got a
text yesterday from somebody and she said, Wow, we'd put
your album on and not and and our our dogs
have calmed down. We've calmed down and our dogs have
(44:57):
calmed down. And I was like, well, that means a
lot if you've got a couple high for dogs, But
you know they were also sitting in a calming setting.
And I think it's very hard. I experienced this myself
when my child was young, and people would say, oh,
just go take a warm bath. I'm like, you gotta
(45:17):
be kidding me. Even go in the bathroom and hut
the door without a child at the door. Oh, let's
not like tell people to do things that are unrealistic.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Well, let's go ahead now and talk about your collaboration
with Peppino Dia Augustino, a world class guitarist, to create
these specific brain states and what put Pinos recorded nineteen CDs,
played with some really famous musicians. How did you meet
Pupino and end up recording with him?
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, the guy's incredible. Oh, this is so funny. So
I met him on the internet. But I when I
had that experience where I was like, man, I got
to do this music stuff. I really got obsessed with
this idea of learning to play percussive fingerstyle guitar, which
is a certain type of guitar that I was very
(46:12):
intrigued with, and I was looking around for someone who
could teach me and I couldn't find anybody locally, and
I actually found Callum Graham online and he was my
first teacher, and he was actually the one that encouraged
me to get back into the pipe organ and think
about the pipe organ and guitar combination. When I had
(46:34):
that idea, it was like you should try that. I
was like, wow, Callum, are you insane? But it actually
turned out he wasn't insane. And then Callum took off
and went on tour and I had to find somebody else,
and I found Peppino. I just searched online and I
wrote him an email and I was like, you know,
(46:55):
I'm just a beginner and a local guitarist that I
knew in Boise. When I was telling her, and he said,
oh yeah, I'll take you on that. He just emailed
me back, Yes, I'll take you on. And a friend
of mine in Boise said, Barb, you didn't just go
to the priest, you went to God. What it's like,
(47:18):
Oh my god, totally intimidated. And I, you know, I
was totally intimidated by him. But he was such a
kind and supportive person. And then when I had this
idea which I really had gotten from reading a neuroscience
article on migrain. And I'll just tell you about that
(47:43):
article briefly, because it talks about migraine as a dysrhythmia,
and dysrhythmia means one part of the brain is operating
too slow and the other parts are trying to figure
out what to do. And it struck me like, oh, well,
we can replace the brain with music, Like there's data
on this. And oh I said to Pipino, like, what
(48:06):
if we got together for a week and would you
be interested? And he said yes. And we had never
met each other in person, so I think it was
a bit of both of us. I mean, I can't
speak for him, I'll speak for myself. It was a
little bit of risk, you know, to like get together
with somebody for a week that you've never really seen
(48:28):
in person. And luckily, I mean the guy's just musicians
at his level are just so rare and beautiful, and
he's so focused, you know. He was so kind and
humble and not at all you know, like, well, this
is the way it has to be, because you know
sometimes musicians can get that way. And I'm asking him, well,
(48:51):
can we not go above this note and can we
resolve this phrase this way and not that way? And
he kept his eye on the goal and we just
composed these songs and it was just so luminous really
working with him, and I hope that comes across in
the music. And then I recorded the pipe organ parts afterwards.
(49:16):
So I got to go into Grace Cathedral and another
church here, the Unitarian Church has a pipe organ at
night by myself when it was quiet, and record the
pipe organ parts and that was just so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
And so you're getting together with Peppino resulted in your
new CD calling the Storm right, which people can download
off your website.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Yep, so Music and Healing dot net net is the
website and they can download or buy CDs or USBs.
I will say, you know, we're looking to do live
concerts and.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
If you ever get wondering about that.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Yeah, it's We did one in Boise and wow. You know,
Peppino talked about this a little bit in another interview.
We did, but we didn't have people clap between because
we wanted people to stay in the state. And so
we just played through this album live and the deep
(50:18):
resonance of the pipe organ combined with the warm intimacy
of the guitar. Oh, It's given me chills just talking
about it was just incredible. So people closed their eyes
and I was I was mostly watching him because and
the pipe organ console was kind of blocking my view
(50:40):
of the people. But he said most people went into
kind of a trans state. Some people started to cry.
A guy came up afterwards and said his pain had
gone away. It was just, man, absolutely stunning, and I
think it was a combination of the resonance of Peppino
and me as performers and what we feel being transmitted
(51:04):
and then these live frequencies hitting you from both the
guitar and the organ is just incredible. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
So we are speaking with Dr Barbara Minton, a psychologist, neuroscientist,
musical healer and performer. Just amazing, amazing, stuff, and I'm
really excited to hear about this, and because you know,
I'm like I told you, Barbara, I am a huge musician.
(51:35):
I literally there's hardly any time in my day where
I don't have some music on that's keeping me healed
and healthy and whole. So one last question real quick
here is what you're doing. Is that popular within the
world of psychology or are you kind of breaking new
(51:56):
ground here?
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Yeah, I would say it's not popular in the world
of psych cology. You know, we all get trained in
our own little narrow areas, and psychology is really focused
on talk therapy generally speaking, and I love talk therapy.
I actually think talk therapy, neurotherapy and music have a
(52:17):
very synergistic effect. So people that want to optimize themselves
can use multiple techniques. But yeah, I would say most
of my colleagues no. But I have done two workshops
with Continuing Education workshops for mental health professionals where I
(52:39):
show them how to curate and use music as an
adjunct to therapy, which is so easy to do right,
and to integrate it into talk therapy. And we've gotten
straight you know, like the ratings are zero to five.
We've got straight fives every time, and we had, you know,
people who were I had one person that it was
(53:01):
on the faculty actually of another social work program, and
she'd been in the field for years and here she said,
this is hands down the best continuing at workshop I've
been to. So there's so much potential here and it's
so easy to integrate. If you are a mental health
professional or a coach, you know, you really should think
(53:23):
about learning more about music and how to use it
to help your clients with their outcomes.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, you are a groundbreaker and you're my very first
pipe organ performer.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
I've ever heard on trying.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
And you see I think he said, you do a
two day workshop. Is that live? Is that virtual? On
your website?
Speaker 3 (53:49):
Yeah, so we have there's actually two different workshops. One
is this Music the Brain and Healing one I just
alluded to a couple of times. We have another one
that Peppino and I and colleague of mine did in June,
which was fantastic, which is how to use different creative
avenues to develop your to help find and develop your
(54:12):
authentic self in a low pressure, non performance based environment.
And that one's really fun. And those are both in
person workshops. And then we also have these concerts, so
the concert, the Calm, the Storm concert, and then we
also have pipe organ guitar concerts that we can sort
(54:32):
of add in there. So there's lots of coal stuff
going on. The workshops are in person right now, but
eventually we will do some of this stuff online if people,
if there's interest, we'd love to do it online. It's
better in person, of course, especially with the frequency based stuff,
(54:53):
but you can still get the idea of it online.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Man, I'm going to have to fly onto Boise, Idaho
to hear your next concert at there.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
I know you better.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, Barbara, we're gonna wind up here again. You're you actually.
I think you have two websites, Music and Healing dot
net and then your own personal one, Dr Barbminton dot com,
Doctor Barbminton dot com.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Right, yeah, the drb the doctor Barbminton one is really
kind of my psychology one that talks more feedback in
the psychology side, and then the music one is Music
and Healing dot Net. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Well, this has been an amazing conversation and what you
are doing and your friend Peppino, thank you so much.
And and there I will tell people doctor Minton has
a couple of music videos on YouTube. If you just
want to search those out. Maybe I'll find the links
and put them in the show notes. Some people can
check it out. And thank you, Barbara, you're doing some
(55:52):
amazing things through the world.
Speaker 3 (55:54):
Well, thank you so much for letting me come and talk.
It's just so fun.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
This has been another episode of World Awakenings, the Fast
Track to Enlightenment with host Carl Gruber, a certified Law
of attraction life coach. We welcome you to tune in
to each and every episode of World Awakenings as we
open your mind, your heart, and your eyes to the
fact that the world's population is now more than ever
(56:32):
awakening to the truth of all things spiritual, metaphysical, and enlightening,
and just how much they play an all important role
in our moment to moment daily life. Much love and
light to you, my friend, and thank you for tuning
into World Awakenings.
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