April 16, 2010 • 31 mins
Welcome to another exciting episode of "Wynn with Dogs!". This week’s guest is Jonathan Klein, LA based dog behaviorist. Jonathan has trained over 6000 dogs using the causative method of training. This method addressed the cause of behavior issues rather than the behavior itself, thus leading to lasting behavior changes. All of you listeners know that Raquel advocates consistent, patient, loving training rather than explosive, harsh, punishment driven training. Join us this week and get some insight from a dog trainer who is right up this alley.
Explore, with Jonathan and Raquel, why harsh, dominance modes of training can actually exacerbate bad behavior. Learn ways to build your dog's confidence! Tune in this week and get more wonderful tools that will help you win with dogs!
More details on this episode MP3 Podcast - The Causative Method of Training with Raquel Wynn
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/wynn-with-dogs-healthy-happy-dogs-pet-life-radio-original--6670203/support.
Explore, with Jonathan and Raquel, why harsh, dominance modes of training can actually exacerbate bad behavior. Learn ways to build your dog's confidence! Tune in this week and get more wonderful tools that will help you win with dogs!
More details on this episode MP3 Podcast - The Causative Method of Training with Raquel Wynn
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/wynn-with-dogs-healthy-happy-dogs-pet-life-radio-original--6670203/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Thank you're listening to Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Got questions about your hounds health, need the facts on
Fido's fitness or food. You want to unleash your pups potential.
Well you've come to the right place, because it's time
to Win with Dogs. Here we learn how easy it
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So sit, stay, and get ready to win with Dogs
(00:35):
with me, Raquel Win.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Welcome back to Win with Dogs.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We have another exciting episode today for you pup parents
out there. Today, my guest is Jonathan Klein. He's a
Los Angeles based dog behaviorist. He's a founder of a
personalized dog training center in LA called I Said Sit
and Jonathan's school was voted the two thousand and nine
number one dog training school in LA by KTTV Fox
(01:02):
slash my La. So all you Los Angeleans out there,
I'm a former laian check him out. His information how
he teaches is fabulous. I can't wait to shed some
light on some training issues and behavior issues. One thing
I really love about Jonathan that I think you listeners
will pick up is that he is a positive and
(01:25):
a positive trainer. Most of you listeners know that I'm
not too keen on the dominance theory of training, and
so maybe we can shed some light on our perspectives
for you guys. So hang tight. We'll be right back
after a short water break to speak with Jonathan Klein
on Win with Dogs. Don't go away, Hey, don't you
(01:48):
go anywhere. We'll be right back to Win with Dogs
right after this quick water break.
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temtoy and treats, and get ready to have.
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Some fun Teachers Pet Sessions dot Com.
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Hi, and welcome to the Family Pet on Pet Life Radio.
I'm your host, Colleen Safford. Each week we'll focus on
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Radio every week on demand only on petlife Radio dot com.
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Speaker 3 (03:56):
Thanks for hanging around.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
We're back to Win with Dogs with me Raquel Win
on petl Like Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thanks for hanging tight and listening to all our sponsors
who we need dearly to keep going. So thank you
sponsors again. I was talking about Jonathan Klein. He's going
to be shedding some light and perspective on dog training.
He is in LA and a causative dog trainer. Jonathan,
Thank you for being with me today on Win with Dogs.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Hello, Raquel, thanks for having.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Me absolutely and Jonathan.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One thing to clarify, I do myself a holistic counseling
and training when it comes to humans and dogs, and
I consider that a whole picture causative approach to life.
So for those listeners out there that may be unclear
of what that means, can you explain what we mean
by causative training versus maybe other modes of training out there.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Well, that's a really good question. And what's really important
is that I think a lot of dog training methods
over the year were based on the symptoms. When your
dog does this, what should I do? When my dog
does this? What should I do? And so what happens
is that's addressing the symptoms, not the cause of the See.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I wonder where we get that from. Our whole mode
of thinking is on that. So I love to have
someone like you that is kind of to you. It's
probably common sense, but it's kind of breaking new ground
in a way, you know, having this approach, so you're
not looking at symptoms, you're looking at the cause of behavior.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
It reminds me of a story years ago when I
started training a girl had done a lot of rescue
work and she was really big on taking care of
dogs and getting them homes and stuff, and she hired
me the dogs were destroying her couch, and you know,
it's really strange, but I really thought what she wanted
to know, I mean, by the way she asked me,
(05:51):
is you know, how can I get my dog in
trouble for doing this? And you know, it was really
hard to guide her that what we really want to
do is teach the dogs, you know, to be comfortable
when they're left home alone, not get them in.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Trouble for destrugber exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And that's so thank you for saying that, because one thing,
I've had a few trainers on the show and just
my own experience and trying to do it, and I
do think that's a new concept, and that is telling the.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Dog what you expect from them.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So maybe changing does changing your verbage towards the dog
come into play too. I mean, I assume you don't
advocate a lot of scolding or harsh tones. I mean,
how important is the verbage and the tone of your
voice in this kind of training?
Speaker 6 (06:36):
You know, you actually I could whisper to your dogs
and if they knew what they you wanted them to do,
they'd still do it.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Because they're nonverbal. Hello.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
You know, whenever I teach a dog, you know, I
start with with hand signals and guiding them. Is you know,
dogs learn so much quicker if we use food and
hand signals then rather than trying to tell them to
do something. And you know when you talk about verbiage,
I'll share a quick story of something that happened very recently.
(07:08):
And I was with a client but heard another dog
owner around the corner, and you know what they were
doing was what I heard was drop it, drop it,
drop it, drop it. And this actually went on maybe
fifteen or twenty times. I said to my client, I said,
you know what's going on here, and she's what The
dog obviously does not know what they want, and so
(07:32):
telling them one more time isn't going to help.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah. Having said that, I have been in the position.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Before where I will say, Regal, get off the bed,
and if I keep saying get off the bed, they
don't do it. But if I say Regal and look
at him, he's much more likely to do it than
if I just repeat the command. Is that just my
own thinking or I mean is that? Could that be true?
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Here's what I see and I'm not I'm not there.
But you know, it's funny you mentioned my business name,
which is I said sit. And I picked that name
because it represents sort of the frustration of owners you
don't getting their dog to do something.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I said sit, damn it right.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
But what what happens is when you when you get
to that point, you are, you are ready to enforce it.
And by enforcing it, I don't, I don't. You know,
we don't need to do it in a confrontational way,
but the dog knows. Okay, they really mean it. Now
you know I have to do it. Yeah, and you know,
we are not really consistent with our dogs. One of
(08:37):
the one of the comments that I tend to make
is that our dog would really be happy if we
would actually just do the same thing twice.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, no, kidding, totally what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I agree with that, and I you know not, I say,
over and over and over, ninety three percent of human
communication is nonverbal. I mean so, and think of how
oblivious we are are generally. And I'm speaking for everyone.
Forgive me if you don't think you're oblivious, But you know,
we're oblivious to some of these body cues and body language,
(09:09):
and dogs are watching, you know. I know if I
work on a dog, do some hands on massage or
energy work with a dog.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Just a simple act of.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Opening my own mouth and kind of letting my tongue
kind of hang past my teeth a little, and softening
my eyes. That does so much to calm him and
slow my own breathing. That does much more to calm
him than anything. And it's nothing that really a human,
you know, a human probably wouldn't even notice those changes.
But you're right, a dog sees every little, every little
(09:41):
movement we make, and they do want us to be consistent,
and we're never going to be.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Probably.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
I've heard that the dog, you know, unique to every
other species, can read human body language much more clearly
than any any other species.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I believe that because they're here to please us, which
is one of the things I love about dog.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
How narcissistic is that?
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Me?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Me, Me, No, I'm kidding, And actually it's become all
about them than then.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
So it's yeah, I tend to agree with that. I
think I think the dog wants what suits them. But
you know that that helps us in dog training, because
if you know what a dog wants, then you've got
a lot of leverage to get them to do what
you want.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So along those lines, you know, if not only we're
giving them improper queuing nonverbally, we're probably also giving them
improper queuing verbally. And I agree with you that dogs
haven't have a very keen memory.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I know some.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
People would disagree with that, which I think is absurd.
But how detrimental is it to growth and behavior training
to just, you know, to train them incorrectly and be
let's talk about punishment and harshness and that form of
training dominance.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
How detrimental do you think that is?
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Well, I think it's really detrimental. And I can tie
a couple of things together that you said, dogs absolutely
have a great memory, and uh, punishment, can you know
not help us? And I can. I've been searching for
examples for years to use with my clients, and you know,
they seem so obvious to me. But you know, one
(11:13):
of the examples I use, you know, is if your
dog gets on the couch for one second once in
its life, knows that's the most wonderful place in the world.
And every time your walk dog walks by the couch,
it's going to say, oh my god, I was there
once and it's so cool. Yeah, and if you think
(11:33):
about that, there's there's really no reason that your dog
would forget over the course of his life that that
was a wonderful experience. And you know that. To continue
to answer your question, the same thing goes. You know,
if you if you catch your dog on the couch
and you think, oh my god, this is perfect. The
dog trainer told me. It wasn't me, but some other
(11:54):
dog trainer told me. Catch your dog in the act
and bad dog them. So you come run coming into
the room and get your dog off the couch and
tell them what a bad, bad dog they are. Now Now, yeah,
well it's it's unfortunate. Now they know two things. The
couch is good and it's also not good to be
on the couch when mom down are around.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So you create you just set them up to lie
to you.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Well, you know, I had thought about lying. And see
they don't understand about evidence. I don't understand about evidence.
So you know, when when you drive away the next morning,
two things are perfectly obvious to the dog. The couch
is good and you're.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Gone, so they're on the couch, and they're on the couch.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Yeah, you know, owners and and you know, quite quite frankly,
other trainers probably think, well, you know, you're just not
you know, you're not being start enough with them. But
but that's not going to stop them from getting on
the couch when you're gone, because the couch is fabulous.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And one of the things that I do that actually
seems to work until I'm gone.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
A blanket on the couch.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I have like a three little piece couch in the room,
and I put a blanket on the one that they're
allowed to be on. And of course when I'm here,
they are on that one just diligently. And the minute
I leave, unless I baby gate them out of that room,
I see that there is evidence of them on the couch.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So you're so so right, But I mean, how do
we set boundaries Because I'm the kind of pet parent
that wants them in bed sometimes but not other times,
want them on the couch with me sometimes, But you know,
how do we create that space and those boundaries where
they're listening to kind of our desire timing wise, what
they're doing.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Well, you know, like, like we started out saying, we
have to be consistent. And if the dog doesn't know
when it is or isn't allowed on the couch, you know,
or your bed, I mean, they can't really get that
they're allowed when they're dry and they're not allowed to
come in out of the rain. Yeah, but you know
they could get that they're allowed with permission or they're
not allowed, you know, without permission, or they That's so true.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Thank you for saying that, because I think my not
all my dogs. I have three dogs, two of them
are very good about asking permission.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh, very good at that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And I think that that is I think that's possible
to set those boundaries and still have your dog be
a member of the family rather than a subordinate pac member,
right you know personally.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Yeah, well we need we need leadership, but you know,
the dog doesn't need to be a subordinate pack member.
And you know, I actually just started a Facebook group,
you know, the are they're nine hundred and ninety nine
people who think their dogs aren't plotting to dominate them.
I don't, don't you know your dog doesn't dig in
(14:44):
the yard because it wants to dominate you. No, your
dog doesn't steal food out of the trash can because
it wants to dominate you. No, it doesn't get on
the couch to dominate you. Those things are fun. They
like to do those things.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Dogs are opportunistic, so they look for the most fun
opportunity available to them and go with it, you know,
which is one thing I love about them. Honestly, if
you can get past muddy pause on your new comforter,
you know you're good to go.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
A power by the door is really helpful.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Oh heck, yeah, absolutely absolutely. So I think that's important
is to just set some consistent training techniques. And you know,
I definitely think, like you said, dogs are highly food motivated,
as are we. So I don't think there's anything wrong
with using treats for motivation. Do you do you think
treats and clickers are as effective as each other or.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Well, treats and clickers are two different things. The clicker
I'm a big advocate of clicker training, and the clicker
becomes the marker to the dog of the good behavior.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
So, you know, when we're teaching sit and the dogs
but hits the ground, we click, And when we're teaching
sit and the dogs but hits the ground, we click.
I'm repeating it because we repeat things in dog training
and and and and it doesn't take very long for
the dog to realize that the click means that was
what she liked, that was what he liked.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, and the food.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Becomes the reward. Uh. And of course I always throw
in praise because we don't always have food, so so
you know, we praise and give give food. But you
know one thing that I that I, you know, to
teach all my clients is for their dog to leave
something on the ground. But I don't actually teach it
(16:33):
with a command because the command would would give us
the impression or the dog the oppression that there's a
time that you're going to tell them it's okay to
steal chicken bones off the ground. So I don't think
you need to walk by the chicken bones and tell
the dog leave it, leave it, leave it. But so
what what I'll do is put food on the ground,
(16:54):
and then if the dog tries to steal it, we
just actually don't let them steal it, which isn't enough
of a punt. And when the dog goes up and
stops and I'm abbreviating this a little bit then we
actually give them a piece of the food.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, totally goes.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
Up and stops. We give them a piece of the food.
And so now what happens is when they try to
steal the food, we pull them away and they don't
get it. And it's not very harsh at all, it's
very gentle. Just don't let them get it, and pretty
soon you have dogs walking around food because if they
don't steal it, they get it. And if they do
steal it, yeah, they don't get it.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
In fact, I know I have two one year old
dogs and a seven year old dog in my household
right now, and when it comes time to you know,
dole out the fresh chicken I just made for them,
I give them some warm pieces. They sit there and
just totally wait because when they all clamor to get it,
no one gets any The minute they sit there and
(17:51):
wait their turn, they're all getting it. So I think
it's really important to not be depriving your dog of
the same things that, you know, the things that it
gets joy from, like food, good food, interaction, praise, love,
all these things. I think definitely we want to be
more on the bountiful loving approach.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Than the deprivation scolding approach.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Right. What you've also described is a perfect example to
be a leader to your dogs, because you know, you
said a boundary and emotional boundary that if you guys
grab for the food, you don't get it. If you
are well behaved, you do get it. So the dogs
understand that there's a structure, that there's a right way
(18:35):
to do things, that we provide the stuff and we
care when we give them the stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yes, well, good, we have to take a quick break.
Let's just pause on that note. Please do not go away.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We will be right back to talk some more with
Jonathan Klein and get some more training tips.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Don't go away, hey, we don't you go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We'll be right back to win with dogs right after
this quick water break.
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Speaker 2 (21:09):
Thanks for hanging around. We're back to Win with Dogs
with me Raquel Win on pet live Radio. And we
are back again here with Jonathan Klein on Win with Dogs.
For those of you who are in Los Angeles, you
can call and get some actual hands on physical training
from his school, and it would be great for those
(21:30):
of you.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Like me that are not in the LA area.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Go on, I said sit dot com and Jonathan, I
know you have a Facebook also that they can log into.
Can they get there from your website?
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Yeah? They sure, Kim, there's a there's a group for
I said SIT. And as I said, I just started
a group. Are the ny nine people who think their
dogs aren't plotting to dominate?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's so great.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Hey, I have a question that is it's sort of
training related. But I've always wondered and I've heard this
and maybe it's not true, but you know, I have
three male dogs in my house and they aren't terrible
about marking, but sometimes they mark or go to the
bathroom in the house occasionally. And I have heard that
you aren't supposed to let them see you clean this up?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Is that true, anything that we pay attention to, we
are drawing more attention to, you know, and we're drawing
the dog's attention. So you know, you reflect back on
what we said about body language. I mean, the dogs
are watching what we what we do, and there probably
are a number of things that that that that influences.
(22:39):
For For one, you know, if even if if the dog, well,
let's let me explain it this way, if the dog
doesn't see you and we clean up, but there's a
fairly good chance that we haven't eliminated all the smell.
There's another fairly good chance if we clean up with
any kind of a detergent that has a smell, that's
(22:59):
actually to draw the dog's attention to it more. And
then they're still going to smell the urine. And then,
to go back to your question, on top of all
of that, if they see us cleaning up, then then
it just makes it much more obvious that we're paying
attention to that spot.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Right, and attention is what they want ultimately.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Right, and more likely than not, they remember it as
being satisfying because peeing is and we're trying to clean up,
and we're saying, get away, let me clean up. Get away,
let me clean up. Get away, let me clean up.
And they're having a marvelous time interfering with us.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And it's like I say, I get told often by
my friends who come over my scolding of my dogs
is like, oh, guys, what one of you did this? No, now,
Mommy has to clean it, And they're like, you're not
punishing them enough. I'm like, they don't understand anyway. So
I usually what would be the proper scenario. You walk in,
(24:00):
your dogs are in your house, you see that someone's
gone to the bathroom house.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
First thing I do is I let them out when
I get home.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, and if then that's when you should clean it
when they're out right.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Yeah, I would clean it when they're out. And there
isn't really anything you can do to reprimand them. I mean,
it's just like you know, I said with the couch.
Dogs have a great memory, but they don't associate two
events in the same way that we think we want
them to.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, their time memory maybe isn't this time might be
more relative to them.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm thinking maybe, well, you.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Know, let's go on the assumption that the dog has
to go to the bathroom, that the dog wants to
go to the bathroom where it's supposed to. And yeah,
when you said you come in and you say, oh
my god, look what you did, I think it's quite
clear that your dog knows that there was something wrong.
You don't come in. You don't need to come in
(24:54):
with guns blazing for the dogs that you're upset.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
In fact, even when I say it loving, they kind
of look.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Down like they're like, oh, mommy's mad. I know I
did that.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
They know mommy gets mad around p And so what
we don't want and what can happen with with punishment
is that the dog will not instead of coming to
us to say, oh, mommy, I need to go pee,
the dog thinks, oh my god, pe mommy gets angry.
I'll just go pee where mommy can't see me.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
And so so punishment can can you know, cause bad
behavior because because the dog is trying to avoid being punished.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Exactly that is hit you hit that on the head.
So it does encourage sneakiness for sure. I think being
more dominant like that. Absolutely, I love to anthropomorphize. They're
not being sneaky, but in my mind they're being sneaky.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Yeah, as long as you as long as you know
you're anthropomorphizing, yes with humor.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So we don't have very much time, believe it or not.
Time goes flying by on this show. But what I
would love to leave my listeners with is maybe some
tips from you on how to increase confidence in your dog.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
All right, well, that's that's great, and that's something that
I think is really really important. And some of the
some of the things you know, we already talked about
were being consistent and anything that the easier and quicker
way we have to teach a dog something, the better.
I think. What what comes to mind is, you know
that the dogs need to know to trust us. They know,
(26:37):
they need to think that they're capable of accomplishing a task.
And you know, agility training is very popular, and you know,
agility when when taught right, the dogs can do all
sorts of stuff that would scary and they thought they
weren't capable of. And one, you know, just the example
(26:57):
of one obstacle comes to mind is you know, a
dog on a teeter totter. You know, if they run
over it and it changes, you know, it goes up
on side down the other side. It can be very scary.
But you can guide a dog to walk over a
teeter totter really slowly the first time, because you know,
we talked about do they have a memory? Yes, they
(27:18):
learned something the first time they do it, and if
we can walk them slowly enough, they can learn they're
actually the one changing the balance of the teeter totter. Yes,
if then they have power over the teeter totter, so
as opposed to it's scaring them, they realize right control it.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
This is kind of about empowering your dog, you know,
just making sure that you're empowering them and getting them
as much interaction and new experiences as possible, and not
going too fast, I mean gauging. Each dog has a
different threshold. I think for stuff, I had a chocolate
Lab that would run and jump ten feet off a
(27:56):
cliff into water, and then a black Lab that wouldn't
even and walk in steps in the pool into the water,
and you know, I couldn't clearly treat them the same.
So I think it's important to just be very unique
in your training for each individual dog. And that's something
that I think you advocate a lot, which which is great, say.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Look at your dog's level and recognize their their abilities
and yeah, not every dog can do the same thing.
And but once you know how to teach them, and
once you've once you've opened the light, opened the little
window in their eyes that you know, they know you're
their teacher, and they start learning things. It's amazing how
fast they can learn.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So it is amazing. It is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I say that with people who are just starting to
stretch and massage their dogs and get them on X
you know, into that routine, and the first time, it's like,
what why are you touching me like that? The minute
they reason that, Wow, that kind of felt good. Within
like one two sessions, they're like walking up to you,
handing you their arms and legs. Yeah, please do this,
(29:03):
which is really rewarding as a as a pet parent too.
You you know, you're like, wow, there are understanding me.
I'm getting somewhere. So I think it's fabulous what you
are out there advocating. And again, if you're welcome, if
people want to know more about what you're doing. It's
at I said, sit dot com. Any other links that
(29:25):
you want to throw out there.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
No, the website is new, and I mean I've had
a website forever, but we've launched a new one and
there's a lot of resources. They're training resources and some
articles I've written, and that's.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The one right now which are great.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There's just for those of you who are going to
go on there, there's puppyproofing the home. He's got articles
on you know why scolding bad behavior can actually exacerbate it,
all kinds of different blogs and articles, so it's a
resource full of abundant, abundant resource. Thank you, You're welcome,
and I appreciate you being on my show today. Unfortunately
(30:04):
we have to round up another episode and listeners out there,
please feel free to email me any questions about this episode,
or go on to Jonathan and email him directly from
his website.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I said sit dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We were speaking with Jonathan Klein from Los Angeles, and
I appreciate all your insight and all the work you've
done training over six thousand dogs, which is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's batulous. There's also videos on your website which are great.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So again I appreciate you being a guest and keep
up the good work.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Great, thanks so much for having you.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Riquella enjoyed talking to you absolutely again. I appreciate you
listening out there.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Remember it's up to us to create healthy, happy hounds.
Their choices are actually our choices, So please get all
the tools needed and your toolbolt to go out there
and make good choices and win with Dogs. Until next time,
I'm Raquel and you're listening to pet Life R.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Bye bye.
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Give yourself the gift of knowledge on demand every week
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Speaker 3 (00:38):
Welcome back to Win with Dogs.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We have another exciting episode today for you pup parents
out there. Today, my guest is Jonathan Klein. He's a
Los Angeles based dog behaviorist. He's a founder of a
personalized dog training center in LA called I Said Sit
and Jonathan's school was voted the two thousand and nine
number one dog training school in LA by KTTV Fox
(01:02):
slash my La. So all you Los Angeleans out there,
I'm a former laian check him out. His information how
he teaches is fabulous. I can't wait to shed some
light on some training issues and behavior issues. One thing
I really love about Jonathan that I think you listeners
will pick up is that he is a positive and
(01:25):
a positive trainer. Most of you listeners know that I'm
not too keen on the dominance theory of training, and
so maybe we can shed some light on our perspectives
for you guys. So hang tight. We'll be right back
after a short water break to speak with Jonathan Klein
on Win with Dogs. Don't go away, Hey, don't you
(01:48):
go anywhere. We'll be right back to Win with Dogs
right after this quick water break.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
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Some fun Teachers Pet Sessions dot Com.
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(03:33):
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Radio every week on demand only on petlife Radio dot com.
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Thanks for hanging around.
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We're back to Win with Dogs with me Raquel Win
on petl Like Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thanks for hanging tight and listening to all our sponsors
who we need dearly to keep going. So thank you
sponsors again. I was talking about Jonathan Klein. He's going
to be shedding some light and perspective on dog training.
He is in LA and a causative dog trainer. Jonathan,
Thank you for being with me today on Win with Dogs.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Hello, Raquel, thanks for having.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Me absolutely and Jonathan.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One thing to clarify, I do myself a holistic counseling
and training when it comes to humans and dogs, and
I consider that a whole picture causative approach to life.
So for those listeners out there that may be unclear
of what that means, can you explain what we mean
by causative training versus maybe other modes of training out there.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Well, that's a really good question. And what's really important
is that I think a lot of dog training methods
over the year were based on the symptoms. When your
dog does this, what should I do? When my dog
does this? What should I do? And so what happens
is that's addressing the symptoms, not the cause of the See.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I wonder where we get that from. Our whole mode
of thinking is on that. So I love to have
someone like you that is kind of to you. It's
probably common sense, but it's kind of breaking new ground
in a way, you know, having this approach, so you're
not looking at symptoms, you're looking at the cause of behavior.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
It reminds me of a story years ago when I
started training a girl had done a lot of rescue
work and she was really big on taking care of
dogs and getting them homes and stuff, and she hired
me the dogs were destroying her couch, and you know,
it's really strange, but I really thought what she wanted
to know, I mean, by the way she asked me,
(05:51):
is you know, how can I get my dog in
trouble for doing this? And you know, it was really
hard to guide her that what we really want to
do is teach the dogs, you know, to be comfortable
when they're left home alone, not get them in.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Trouble for destrugber exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And that's so thank you for saying that, because one thing,
I've had a few trainers on the show and just
my own experience and trying to do it, and I
do think that's a new concept, and that is telling the.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Dog what you expect from them.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So maybe changing does changing your verbage towards the dog
come into play too. I mean, I assume you don't
advocate a lot of scolding or harsh tones. I mean,
how important is the verbage and the tone of your
voice in this kind of training?
Speaker 6 (06:36):
You know, you actually I could whisper to your dogs
and if they knew what they you wanted them to do,
they'd still do it.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Because they're nonverbal. Hello.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
You know, whenever I teach a dog, you know, I
start with with hand signals and guiding them. Is you know,
dogs learn so much quicker if we use food and
hand signals then rather than trying to tell them to
do something. And you know when you talk about verbiage,
I'll share a quick story of something that happened very recently.
(07:08):
And I was with a client but heard another dog
owner around the corner, and you know what they were
doing was what I heard was drop it, drop it,
drop it, drop it. And this actually went on maybe
fifteen or twenty times. I said to my client, I said,
you know what's going on here, and she's what The
dog obviously does not know what they want, and so
(07:32):
telling them one more time isn't going to help.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah. Having said that, I have been in the position.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Before where I will say, Regal, get off the bed,
and if I keep saying get off the bed, they
don't do it. But if I say Regal and look
at him, he's much more likely to do it than
if I just repeat the command. Is that just my
own thinking or I mean is that? Could that be true?
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Here's what I see and I'm not I'm not there.
But you know, it's funny you mentioned my business name,
which is I said sit. And I picked that name
because it represents sort of the frustration of owners you
don't getting their dog to do something.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I said sit, damn it right.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
But what what happens is when you when you get
to that point, you are, you are ready to enforce it.
And by enforcing it, I don't, I don't. You know,
we don't need to do it in a confrontational way,
but the dog knows. Okay, they really mean it. Now
you know I have to do it. Yeah, and you know,
we are not really consistent with our dogs. One of
(08:37):
the one of the comments that I tend to make
is that our dog would really be happy if we
would actually just do the same thing twice.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, no, kidding, totally what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I agree with that, and I you know not, I say,
over and over and over, ninety three percent of human
communication is nonverbal. I mean so, and think of how
oblivious we are are generally. And I'm speaking for everyone.
Forgive me if you don't think you're oblivious, But you know,
we're oblivious to some of these body cues and body language,
(09:09):
and dogs are watching, you know. I know if I
work on a dog, do some hands on massage or
energy work with a dog.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Just a simple act of.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Opening my own mouth and kind of letting my tongue
kind of hang past my teeth a little, and softening
my eyes. That does so much to calm him and
slow my own breathing. That does much more to calm
him than anything. And it's nothing that really a human,
you know, a human probably wouldn't even notice those changes.
But you're right, a dog sees every little, every little
(09:41):
movement we make, and they do want us to be consistent,
and we're never going to be.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Probably.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
I've heard that the dog, you know, unique to every
other species, can read human body language much more clearly
than any any other species.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I believe that because they're here to please us, which
is one of the things I love about dog.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
How narcissistic is that?
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Me?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Me, Me, No, I'm kidding, And actually it's become all
about them than then.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
So it's yeah, I tend to agree with that. I
think I think the dog wants what suits them. But
you know that that helps us in dog training, because
if you know what a dog wants, then you've got
a lot of leverage to get them to do what
you want.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So along those lines, you know, if not only we're
giving them improper queuing nonverbally, we're probably also giving them
improper queuing verbally. And I agree with you that dogs
haven't have a very keen memory.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I know some.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
People would disagree with that, which I think is absurd.
But how detrimental is it to growth and behavior training
to just, you know, to train them incorrectly and be
let's talk about punishment and harshness and that form of
training dominance.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
How detrimental do you think that is?
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Well, I think it's really detrimental. And I can tie
a couple of things together that you said, dogs absolutely
have a great memory, and uh, punishment, can you know
not help us? And I can. I've been searching for
examples for years to use with my clients, and you know,
they seem so obvious to me. But you know, one
(11:13):
of the examples I use, you know, is if your
dog gets on the couch for one second once in
its life, knows that's the most wonderful place in the world.
And every time your walk dog walks by the couch,
it's going to say, oh my god, I was there
once and it's so cool. Yeah, and if you think
(11:33):
about that, there's there's really no reason that your dog
would forget over the course of his life that that
was a wonderful experience. And you know that. To continue
to answer your question, the same thing goes. You know,
if you if you catch your dog on the couch
and you think, oh my god, this is perfect. The
dog trainer told me. It wasn't me, but some other
(11:54):
dog trainer told me. Catch your dog in the act
and bad dog them. So you come run coming into
the room and get your dog off the couch and
tell them what a bad, bad dog they are. Now Now, yeah,
well it's it's unfortunate. Now they know two things. The
couch is good and it's also not good to be
on the couch when mom down are around.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So you create you just set them up to lie
to you.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Well, you know, I had thought about lying. And see
they don't understand about evidence. I don't understand about evidence.
So you know, when when you drive away the next morning,
two things are perfectly obvious to the dog. The couch
is good and you're.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Gone, so they're on the couch, and they're on the couch.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Yeah, you know, owners and and you know, quite quite frankly,
other trainers probably think, well, you know, you're just not
you know, you're not being start enough with them. But
but that's not going to stop them from getting on
the couch when you're gone, because the couch is fabulous.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And one of the things that I do that actually
seems to work until I'm gone.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
A blanket on the couch.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I have like a three little piece couch in the room,
and I put a blanket on the one that they're
allowed to be on. And of course when I'm here,
they are on that one just diligently. And the minute
I leave, unless I baby gate them out of that room,
I see that there is evidence of them on the couch.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So you're so so right, But I mean, how do
we set boundaries Because I'm the kind of pet parent
that wants them in bed sometimes but not other times,
want them on the couch with me sometimes, But you know,
how do we create that space and those boundaries where
they're listening to kind of our desire timing wise, what
they're doing.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Well, you know, like, like we started out saying, we
have to be consistent. And if the dog doesn't know
when it is or isn't allowed on the couch, you know,
or your bed, I mean, they can't really get that
they're allowed when they're dry and they're not allowed to
come in out of the rain. Yeah, but you know
they could get that they're allowed with permission or they're
not allowed, you know, without permission, or they That's so true.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Thank you for saying that, because I think my not
all my dogs. I have three dogs, two of them
are very good about asking permission.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh, very good at that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And I think that that is I think that's possible
to set those boundaries and still have your dog be
a member of the family rather than a subordinate pac member,
right you know personally.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Yeah, well we need we need leadership, but you know,
the dog doesn't need to be a subordinate pack member.
And you know, I actually just started a Facebook group,
you know, the are they're nine hundred and ninety nine
people who think their dogs aren't plotting to dominate them.
I don't, don't you know your dog doesn't dig in
(14:44):
the yard because it wants to dominate you. No, your
dog doesn't steal food out of the trash can because
it wants to dominate you. No, it doesn't get on
the couch to dominate you. Those things are fun. They
like to do those things.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Dogs are opportunistic, so they look for the most fun
opportunity available to them and go with it, you know,
which is one thing I love about them. Honestly, if
you can get past muddy pause on your new comforter,
you know you're good to go.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
A power by the door is really helpful.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Oh heck, yeah, absolutely absolutely. So I think that's important
is to just set some consistent training techniques. And you know,
I definitely think, like you said, dogs are highly food motivated,
as are we. So I don't think there's anything wrong
with using treats for motivation. Do you do you think
treats and clickers are as effective as each other or.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Well, treats and clickers are two different things. The clicker
I'm a big advocate of clicker training, and the clicker
becomes the marker to the dog of the good behavior.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
So, you know, when we're teaching sit and the dogs
but hits the ground, we click, And when we're teaching
sit and the dogs but hits the ground, we click.
I'm repeating it because we repeat things in dog training
and and and and it doesn't take very long for
the dog to realize that the click means that was
what she liked, that was what he liked.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, and the food.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Becomes the reward. Uh. And of course I always throw
in praise because we don't always have food, so so
you know, we praise and give give food. But you
know one thing that I that I, you know, to
teach all my clients is for their dog to leave
something on the ground. But I don't actually teach it
(16:33):
with a command because the command would would give us
the impression or the dog the oppression that there's a
time that you're going to tell them it's okay to
steal chicken bones off the ground. So I don't think
you need to walk by the chicken bones and tell
the dog leave it, leave it, leave it. But so
what what I'll do is put food on the ground,
(16:54):
and then if the dog tries to steal it, we
just actually don't let them steal it, which isn't enough
of a punt. And when the dog goes up and
stops and I'm abbreviating this a little bit then we
actually give them a piece of the food.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, totally goes.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
Up and stops. We give them a piece of the food.
And so now what happens is when they try to
steal the food, we pull them away and they don't
get it. And it's not very harsh at all, it's
very gentle. Just don't let them get it, and pretty
soon you have dogs walking around food because if they
don't steal it, they get it. And if they do
steal it, yeah, they don't get it.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
In fact, I know I have two one year old
dogs and a seven year old dog in my household
right now, and when it comes time to you know,
dole out the fresh chicken I just made for them,
I give them some warm pieces. They sit there and
just totally wait because when they all clamor to get it,
no one gets any The minute they sit there and
(17:51):
wait their turn, they're all getting it. So I think
it's really important to not be depriving your dog of
the same things that, you know, the things that it
gets joy from, like food, good food, interaction, praise, love,
all these things. I think definitely we want to be
more on the bountiful loving approach.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Than the deprivation scolding approach.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Right. What you've also described is a perfect example to
be a leader to your dogs, because you know, you
said a boundary and emotional boundary that if you guys
grab for the food, you don't get it. If you
are well behaved, you do get it. So the dogs
understand that there's a structure, that there's a right way
(18:35):
to do things, that we provide the stuff and we
care when we give them the stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yes, well, good, we have to take a quick break.
Let's just pause on that note. Please do not go away.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We will be right back to talk some more with
Jonathan Klein and get some more training tips.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Don't go away, hey, we don't you go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We'll be right back to win with dogs right after
this quick water break.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Are you pays?
Speaker 6 (19:18):
You a man?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
What planet am I?
Speaker 7 (19:20):
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Speaker 6 (20:55):
Let's talk past.
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Let's come pet talk about headline.
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Radio pet live radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Thanks for hanging around. We're back to Win with Dogs
with me Raquel Win on pet live Radio. And we
are back again here with Jonathan Klein on Win with Dogs.
For those of you who are in Los Angeles, you
can call and get some actual hands on physical training
from his school, and it would be great for those
(21:30):
of you.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Like me that are not in the LA area.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Go on, I said sit dot com and Jonathan, I
know you have a Facebook also that they can log into.
Can they get there from your website?
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Yeah? They sure, Kim, there's a there's a group for
I said SIT. And as I said, I just started
a group. Are the ny nine people who think their
dogs aren't plotting to dominate?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's so great.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Hey, I have a question that is it's sort of
training related. But I've always wondered and I've heard this
and maybe it's not true, but you know, I have
three male dogs in my house and they aren't terrible
about marking, but sometimes they mark or go to the
bathroom in the house occasionally. And I have heard that
you aren't supposed to let them see you clean this up?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Is that true, anything that we pay attention to, we
are drawing more attention to, you know, and we're drawing
the dog's attention. So you know, you reflect back on
what we said about body language. I mean, the dogs
are watching what we what we do, and there probably
are a number of things that that that that influences.
(22:39):
For For one, you know, if even if if the dog, well,
let's let me explain it this way, if the dog
doesn't see you and we clean up, but there's a
fairly good chance that we haven't eliminated all the smell.
There's another fairly good chance if we clean up with
any kind of a detergent that has a smell, that's
(22:59):
actually to draw the dog's attention to it more. And
then they're still going to smell the urine. And then,
to go back to your question, on top of all
of that, if they see us cleaning up, then then
it just makes it much more obvious that we're paying
attention to that spot.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Right, and attention is what they want ultimately.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Right, and more likely than not, they remember it as
being satisfying because peeing is and we're trying to clean up,
and we're saying, get away, let me clean up. Get away,
let me clean up. Get away, let me clean up.
And they're having a marvelous time interfering with us.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And it's like I say, I get told often by
my friends who come over my scolding of my dogs
is like, oh, guys, what one of you did this? No, now,
Mommy has to clean it, And they're like, you're not
punishing them enough. I'm like, they don't understand anyway. So
I usually what would be the proper scenario. You walk in,
(24:00):
your dogs are in your house, you see that someone's
gone to the bathroom house.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
First thing I do is I let them out when
I get home.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, and if then that's when you should clean it
when they're out right.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Yeah, I would clean it when they're out. And there
isn't really anything you can do to reprimand them. I mean,
it's just like you know, I said with the couch.
Dogs have a great memory, but they don't associate two
events in the same way that we think we want
them to.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, their time memory maybe isn't this time might be
more relative to them.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm thinking maybe, well, you.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Know, let's go on the assumption that the dog has
to go to the bathroom, that the dog wants to
go to the bathroom where it's supposed to. And yeah,
when you said you come in and you say, oh
my god, look what you did, I think it's quite
clear that your dog knows that there was something wrong.
You don't come in. You don't need to come in
(24:54):
with guns blazing for the dogs that you're upset.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
In fact, even when I say it loving, they kind
of look.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Down like they're like, oh, mommy's mad. I know I
did that.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
They know mommy gets mad around p And so what
we don't want and what can happen with with punishment
is that the dog will not instead of coming to
us to say, oh, mommy, I need to go pee,
the dog thinks, oh my god, pe mommy gets angry.
I'll just go pee where mommy can't see me.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
And so so punishment can can you know, cause bad
behavior because because the dog is trying to avoid being punished.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Exactly that is hit you hit that on the head.
So it does encourage sneakiness for sure. I think being
more dominant like that. Absolutely, I love to anthropomorphize. They're
not being sneaky, but in my mind they're being sneaky.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Yeah, as long as you as long as you know
you're anthropomorphizing, yes with humor.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
So we don't have very much time, believe it or not.
Time goes flying by on this show. But what I
would love to leave my listeners with is maybe some
tips from you on how to increase confidence in your dog.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
All right, well, that's that's great, and that's something that
I think is really really important. And some of the
some of the things you know, we already talked about
were being consistent and anything that the easier and quicker
way we have to teach a dog something, the better.
I think. What what comes to mind is, you know
that the dogs need to know to trust us. They know,
(26:37):
they need to think that they're capable of accomplishing a task.
And you know, agility training is very popular, and you know,
agility when when taught right, the dogs can do all
sorts of stuff that would scary and they thought they
weren't capable of. And one, you know, just the example
(26:57):
of one obstacle comes to mind is you know, a
dog on a teeter totter. You know, if they run
over it and it changes, you know, it goes up
on side down the other side. It can be very scary.
But you can guide a dog to walk over a
teeter totter really slowly the first time, because you know,
we talked about do they have a memory? Yes, they
(27:18):
learned something the first time they do it, and if
we can walk them slowly enough, they can learn they're
actually the one changing the balance of the teeter totter. Yes,
if then they have power over the teeter totter, so
as opposed to it's scaring them, they realize right control it.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
This is kind of about empowering your dog, you know,
just making sure that you're empowering them and getting them
as much interaction and new experiences as possible, and not
going too fast, I mean gauging. Each dog has a
different threshold. I think for stuff, I had a chocolate
Lab that would run and jump ten feet off a
(27:56):
cliff into water, and then a black Lab that wouldn't
even and walk in steps in the pool into the water,
and you know, I couldn't clearly treat them the same.
So I think it's important to just be very unique
in your training for each individual dog. And that's something
that I think you advocate a lot, which which is great, say.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Look at your dog's level and recognize their their abilities
and yeah, not every dog can do the same thing.
And but once you know how to teach them, and
once you've once you've opened the light, opened the little
window in their eyes that you know, they know you're
their teacher, and they start learning things. It's amazing how
fast they can learn.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So it is amazing. It is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I say that with people who are just starting to
stretch and massage their dogs and get them on X
you know, into that routine, and the first time, it's like,
what why are you touching me like that? The minute
they reason that, Wow, that kind of felt good. Within
like one two sessions, they're like walking up to you,
handing you their arms and legs. Yeah, please do this,
(29:03):
which is really rewarding as a as a pet parent too.
You you know, you're like, wow, there are understanding me.
I'm getting somewhere. So I think it's fabulous what you
are out there advocating. And again, if you're welcome, if
people want to know more about what you're doing. It's
at I said, sit dot com. Any other links that
(29:25):
you want to throw out there.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
No, the website is new, and I mean I've had
a website forever, but we've launched a new one and
there's a lot of resources. They're training resources and some
articles I've written, and that's.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The one right now which are great.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There's just for those of you who are going to
go on there, there's puppyproofing the home. He's got articles
on you know why scolding bad behavior can actually exacerbate it,
all kinds of different blogs and articles, so it's a
resource full of abundant, abundant resource. Thank you, You're welcome,
and I appreciate you being on my show today. Unfortunately
(30:04):
we have to round up another episode and listeners out there,
please feel free to email me any questions about this episode,
or go on to Jonathan and email him directly from
his website.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I said sit dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We were speaking with Jonathan Klein from Los Angeles, and
I appreciate all your insight and all the work you've
done training over six thousand dogs, which is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's batulous. There's also videos on your website which are great.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So again I appreciate you being a guest and keep
up the good work.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Great, thanks so much for having you.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Riquella enjoyed talking to you absolutely again. I appreciate you
listening out there.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Remember it's up to us to create healthy, happy hounds.
Their choices are actually our choices, So please get all
the tools needed and your toolbolt to go out there
and make good choices and win with Dogs. Until next time,
I'm Raquel and you're listening to pet Life R.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Exercise, nutrition, interaction and love make for one healthy, happy hound.
Give yourself the gift of knowledge on demand every week
right here at Petlife Radio with me Raquelwyn and win
with Dogs
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