February 27, 2020 • 20 mins
Nina is an award-winning filmmaker and XR Creative, Producer & Consultant. She has worked in the XR space since 2015. She is one of the co-founders of the Women in VR meet up group, an XR journalist for two and half years, and has worked on creating, developing, and using immersive technologies for various companies and brands. She is currently working on bringing VR into UK prisons, executing UK immersive events, and working on her own VR film. Nina Salomons talks about her career path and her mission to make the XR community more diverse. She has a clear view on how to build a bridge to the other side of the widening skills gap, to unlock the full potential of XR.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pieter (00:06):
Hi and welcome everybody to a new episode of the virtual
podcasts with me today is NinaSalomons.
She's an award winning filmmakerand XR creative producer,
consultant, and she's working inthe space now for more than five
years.
We met last week at the ISE Xsummit in Amsterdam where Nina
was moderating the panel where Iwas part of.
So hi Nina.
(00:26):
Welcome to our show.
Nina (00:27):
Hi.
Pieter (00:28):
So please tell us a little bit more about your
career paths and how you end updoing stuff in XR.
Nina (00:35):
I started in the immersive space by studying filmmaking for
five years.
I did three degrees of film andtelevision studies and then a
Master in filmmaking.
And during that time period Ihad a YouTube channel dedicated
to gaming actually.
And I learned a lot about theonline community and space.
And I saw how storytelling andfilmmaking was dramatically
(00:58):
changing.
And I was always interested inscience fiction and holograms
and all of all of this stuff.
And so when I first came incontact with XR or augmented
reality, mixed reality, whateveryou're choosing, I was like, I
need to be in this.
So I went to every singlemeetup.
I organized a woman in VR meetupgroup.
(01:19):
And so every single event, everysingle month I went to an event
related to it and I delved intoit.
I started organizing hackathons.
The first hackathon I organized,a company came out of it where
they use virtual reality totrain people how to do CPR in
VR.
And those were the winners ofthe first hackathon.
(01:40):
I work in eyes.
And I thought, this is soamazing.
All of these other differentsectors have to integrate with
all of these new technologiesbecause the possibilities are
endless.
And I ended up being a presenterand a videographer for VR Focus,
which is a European websitededicated to the new.
So I went to all of theconferences, I traveled a lot,
discovered good technology, badtechnology, and I had to write
(02:04):
or make videos about it.
So it was kind of learning aboutwhat the technology was, who
were the big players in thespace, and talking about talking
about it, writing about it,making videos about it.
Recently I ended up working forCornerstone Partnership which is
a charity organization that usesVR to train social care workers
(02:27):
and future foster parents, howto take care of children who
come from broken homes.
So for domestic violence,alcohol abuse, all of these
things, they are using virtualreality to train them how to
parent the children properly.
And, um, that company was calledInition who built the content
and I ended up working for themas a tech consultant.
(02:49):
So working as a sales dev, as aproducer, helping on the
creative side as well.Theyactually recently went bankrupt
which isn't great.
They went down last year, butall the while I was working on
bringing virtual reality intoprison as of last year.
So I've been doing that all thewhile for almost a year now.
Pieter (03:12):
VR in prison, tell us more about that.
Nina (03:15):
So I'm helping a foundation called the[inaudible]
foundation and they've alreadybeen working on rehabilitation
in different prisons.
So they're working already withan organization called beyond
recovery.
And they have been havingincredible results.
The founder of the foundationsaw what American prisons were
(03:37):
doing in Colorado specifically.
They were using virtual realityfor youth offenders, lifers
who've been in there from a veryyoung age and they've been
training them how to reintegratewith a normal life.
If you've been in prison forlike 12 to 15 years, you might
not know what an electric caris.
You might not know how to use amicrowave.
(03:58):
You don't know what a smartphoneis, you don't know how to use a
washing machine.
All of these things that we takefor granted because we live in
normal life, they don't know howto do.
So they're using virtual realityto help prisoners and trained
them to reintegrate within anormal lifestyle.
Pieter (04:15):
And are there any results of those experiments?
Nina (04:18):
Um, so far there's been a little bit of press about it.
Um, the use offenders have beenvery positive about its use and
that's kind of what promptedthis to happen.
So I've been researching it andwe've been working together with
nodding in prison to work withincentivization for prisoners.
(04:38):
So we give them, we give theeducational workshops headsets,
and if you are interested inshowing up, you have potentially
10 minutes opportunity to besomewhere else to try something
else to bring your mind at rest.
And that is actually been quiteproductive.
A lot of attendance ineducational workshops have gone
(05:00):
up because of the headset.
So there has been very, veryuseful.
Pieter (05:05):
Okay.
So you, you mentioned that youhad three different film
studies.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your background in
film?
Nina (05:11):
So I studied film and television studies and I studied
filmmaking as well, so twodifferent ones.
Um, I started off wanting towork in Hollywood and wanting to
make blockbuster feature films.
And I've always had a hugeinterest in independent cinema
like an art form as well asdocumentaries.
(05:34):
I'm a huge fan of them.
So the first documentary I didwas in state of transit, which
was used to help.
How do I describe this?
It's a documentary thatdescribes critical areas where
refugees are in dire need ofevacuation, whether you're a
filmmaker, a journalist or ahuman rights lawyer, your life
(05:57):
can be threatened in differentlocations and you might need
immediate evacuation.
But in order to ask for asylum,it takes days or weeks or months
or years.
So there was a transit centercreated in TIMI, Shara and
Romania where refugees andimmediate dire situations need
(06:18):
to be evacuated to in order tokind of have a leeway of space
in between being granted asylumor being murdered.
So that was a documentary Iworked on.
And then following up on thegamer YouTube channel that I
had, I made a documentary aboutfemale gamers, what it means to
be a female gamer.
I got a lot of hate on X-Box.
(06:40):
Yeah, I was a, I was really intoMMOs, so I was like one of the
two only female girls and likethe whole, the whole group.
And I just, I realized there wasa lot of connotations that came
with it.
I was really interested inexploring it cause I was doing
my master's in filmmaking.
(07:00):
So I made a whole documentaryabout what does it mean to be a
female gamer because there's alot of problems that comes with
it from storytelling tocharacters, abuse online.
And this actually goes intovirtual reality because a lot of
the things that we see in videogames then goes into virtual
reality because there's stillvirtual worlds.
(07:21):
And for the younger generationthey don't, they probably won't
see a difference cause it's avirtual world.
So that documentary went out to,uh, some film festivals and then
I worked on a lot of short filmsand corporate content and music
videos and things like that.
Pieter (07:38):
Okay.
Was the documentary about thewomen in gaming, was it also the
reason why you co-founded thewomen in XR and also XRDI?
Because it seems like you're ona mission in this space now in
the VR or the XR or whatevercommunity looking for more
inclusivity.
U m, could you tell us a littlemore about that?
Nina (07:59):
Oh, this could get super interesting.
Um, how do I describe a story?
So I'm Dutch but I'm adopted andI grew up in nine different
countries and some of them Iwould say were sort of conflict
areas.
So I always grew up beingpointed at being stared at being
kind of seen as like an alien.
(08:20):
And on top of that I was a womanas well.
And so there's a lot of thingsthat I personally experienced as
a girl, as a woman, u m, and aswell being put into a box of
stereotypes and everything elsethat comes with it.
And I r ealized when I came intothe film industry that even
(08:41):
within the UK, it's, that's areally c lasses system as well.
So not only do I sound American,I'm Dutch adopted and I'm a
woman of like an ethnicbackground.
All of these things playedagainst, and what I r ealize as
I entered the space was that alot of the stories that are
being told are kind of aregurgitation of the same thing
(09:05):
sometimes.
And you need other diversevoices to want to tell their
stories.
And so I think I'm doing a lotof work in order to help people
one, f ew safe because it's notalways been a safe space and i t
still is not a safe space,especially for young w omen.
Because t here's sort of anoverlap between technology,
(09:26):
video games, film and televisionand all of these areas.
You know, with t he hashtag metoo, there have been incidents
that have rocked the immersivespace.
And I would, I would want, Iwould want to make sure that a
young person who is of anunderrepresented background
(09:46):
feels like they can tell theirstory and not feel put down
because of everything that theyare simply because they are
this.
So if I had a daughter or asister or a friend or best
friend or a niece or whatever, Iwould want them to feel
inspired.
I want them to tell theirstories.
I want them to push thetechnology forward and not think
(10:08):
about all of the barriers thatexist.
So I feel like I want to createa safe community space for
people like myself or peoplewho've been put with these
judgements on them t o f eellike they can do it and not be
bogged down by the expenses orby this barrier and giving them
a kind of like a boost upsomething that I think everybody
(10:30):
needs.
Pieter (10:30):
So that's, that's mainly the reason why you started with
XRDI.
So you started together withAsha Easton, some of the people.
Nina (10:38):
Yeah, so I actually, I organized the VR after the women
in VR meetup groups.
I wanted to create somethingbigger, a bigger platform and I
realized I didn't have thecapacity to do it.
When I worked for VR Focus, Iled something called the VR
diversity initiative, which insome sense is very much the same
thing.
So ran four workshops, trainedabout 78 different people from
(11:02):
underrepresented backgrounds andthe success stories that come
out of there are incredible.
I would say 30% of the peoplewho went through the, went
through a training of a daywhere they bill and create
something within a single daywithout any previous knowledge
whatsoever.
No film background, no codingbackground.
They went in and they createdsomething tangible.
(11:24):
And I see these people nowworking in the space.
They've been funded by Google.
They set up their own careers,they learn unity, learn coding,
and now they're in the space.
So I can see a real impact ofwhat that did.
Uh, and the possibility ofbringing in new talent, new new
people, new voices, new stories,new ways of looking at the
(11:47):
world.
And so waited to see ifsomething would come out of that
after I had left.
And then after everything that'shappened with Weinstein and
everything else in the hashtagme too age now, I realize that
people were taking advantage ofthe hashtag diversity and I
(12:08):
realized it wasn't meant to helpthem.
It was sort of a way of tappinginto a community for free
without putting any effort intoit.
And I thought, that's not okay.
We need to restart this again.
So Asha and I had been talkingabout it for a really long time
and now we're going to be doingto celebrate women's day, a
(12:30):
hackathon, half a day hackathonat Tate Modern XRDI and the hope
is, and to kind of keep thisgoing, to potentially bring it
to other countries at differentplaces, keep it growing, but I
have a true belief that peoplefrom underrepresented groups
have something new to offer.
If you have no legs, how do youmove in VR if you have no hands,
(12:52):
how do you move in VR if youcan't speak?
How do you speak in VR?
How can you put on a comfortableheadset if your hairstyle
doesn't accommodate an Oculusrift and Oculus quest, the head
strap, what if your eyes are setdifferently?
All of these things are, peoplecould see them as like, well
they're not in porn or you know,it's not the majority of the
(13:14):
population.
But what, what's reallyimportant is that they can offer
new technological solutions thatwe could have never thought of
because we've always have had,we've always had hands.
We've always had feet.
We've always seen the world andthe way that we see it.
But VR is such a new space.
It's such a new innovative spacethat these people who might see
(13:39):
the world completely differentto the way that we do, can bring
on new technologicalbreakthroughs that we might have
never thought of.
So that's why I think it'simportant.
Pieter (13:49):
Oh, okay.
Because I thought that like themission of XRDI to close a skill
gap because there is a hugeindustry wide skill shortage of
developers.
Is that right?
Nina (14:03):
I mean they come hand in hand, they come hand in hand.
If we can upscale people fromunderrepresented groups to then
get hired by companies.
We are changing the landscape ofhow stories can be told, the
technological innovations thatcan take place.
But in order for that to happen,they first need to have access.
And that's what this would beproviding.
(14:24):
The workshops are free toattend.
They're all put together byindividuals who care about the
community and might've come fromsimilar backgrounds.
And the whole idea is upscale,upscale.
We're not a educationalplatform.
We are a push through the door,get access to technological
(14:44):
innovation to hardware tosoftware that you will never
know, might not have ever hadaccess to, but you now get to
try it for free.
And if you are inspired and ifyou want to continue working in
a space, if you suddenly see acrossover in a sector that you
work in or VR, AR, MR, thensuddenly you might start up your
(15:04):
own company or suddenly youmight want to experiment and
work together with other peoplethat you might've met.
Either way.
It's that sort of inspirationthat working together that
giving you an imagination ofwhat's possible.
That really what we're trying toinspire.
And eventually if people do wantto continue down that path and
hopefully there's a platform orthere's a, you know, courses at
(15:28):
universities that will providepeople the means to upscale
quickly to then go in theindustry.
But this is really just a pinch.
It's just the opening of thedoor of inspiration and
inspiring people.
And I've seen it work before andI know that it people will want
to work in the industry aftergetting their hands on it.
Pieter (15:47):
Okay, sounds great.
So what if people are, areinterested, how can they reach
out?
What's next?
What, what can they expect ofthe programs or how can they get
in touch with you guys?
Nina (15:58):
Sure.
You head over to the website,it's XRDi.org.
You can sign up over there ifyou're interested.
If you're interested insupporting via hardware or
software or volunteering or anyother means, let us know.
There's a sort of a contact usright now, the event that we're
organizing is at Tate modern onthe 8th of March.
(16:19):
However, we plan to organizemore into future Asha and I are
hoping that we can make it aventure that potentially we get
more sponsorship, more supportand can be brought elsewhere.
The whole idea is we just wantto cultivate a, an inspirational
space for people to be inspiredand then come and join us in the
immersive community.
Pieter (16:39):
Okay.
All right.
Now it's only based or focusedon London
Nina (16:42):
Right now.
It's just based in London.
That's where Asha and I arebased.
But we have had people ask us tobring it to New Zealand already
or to bring it to wills to bringit to Canada.
And you know, all of thesethings could be a possibility if
we had the support and actualfunding for it.
But right now this is all donein our free time.
We're not getting paid for it.
(17:03):
We just really, we really care.
We really want to make it a safespace.
Pieter (17:08):
Wow.
So final question.
You told me earlier that you'reworking on a VR movie.
Could you tell us a little moreabout that?
Nina (17:16):
So having, coming from a creative background, from
storytelling, I think my realpassion is just telling stories.
And I have been seeing a lot ofVR films, a lot of VR content
for a very, very, very longtime.
And I think I know what workswell and what doesn't work well.
(17:37):
And I've had this film conceptin my mind for a very, very long
time and it's going to be usingeye-tracking.
It will have no form of dialoguewhatsoever, so it's very, I
suppose passive experience in asense that it's not fully
interactive with your hands orcontrollers.
I thought what is the best wayto tell the story if you've
(17:59):
never tried virtual realitybefore?
And eye tracking is one of theareas where I think VR hasn't
really touched upon fully,especially because I think
virtual reality falls into therealm of theater rather than
filmmaking and when it comes tointeracting with a virtual
object.
The part that's very scary or itgets interesting is when you
(18:21):
lock eyes with someone whereyou're walking on the street an
absolute stranger and you makeeye contact.
That's when something happens.
It's nonverbal.
You don't know how to explainit, but I'm sure for example, if
you go to another country, youdon't speak the language, you
can still meet face to face, eyeto eye and have some form of
interaction and so that'ssomething I'm interested in
(18:43):
working on within this piece.
It's about a seven to 12 minutelong short film.
It's, it's a animation, so it'snot actual real characters and
it plays a lot with light, soundand movement.
So the way that you interactwith the characters will be only
through your eyes and you'll beable to sort of change in
(19:03):
landscape using your eyes only.
I think this is one of the areasthat VR headsets haven't been
fully able to make use of yetbecause the headsets don't
support it, but we have somesupport from HTC Vive.
So the Vive Pro Eye does haveintegrated eye tracking and I
think there's some realsubconscious storytelling ways
(19:25):
of interacting with charactershere that could be really
interesting.
So I'm trying to get the fundingfor this.
I'm trying to get it pushedthrough and fingers crossed that
by next year or by the end ofthis year that it'll be
finished.
It's a very expensive process.
Yeah.
Pieter (19:43):
Okay.
So yeah, I would like to thankyou for this very pleasant
conversation.
It sounds very interesting whatyou're all working on and I hope
to hear more from it soonNini sothank you very much.
Nina (19:53):
Fantastic.
Thanks.
Hi and welcome everybody to a new episode of the virtual
podcasts with me today is NinaSalomons.
She's an award winning filmmakerand XR creative producer,
consultant, and she's working inthe space now for more than five
years.
We met last week at the ISE Xsummit in Amsterdam where Nina
was moderating the panel where Iwas part of.
So hi Nina.
(00:26):
Welcome to our show.
Nina (00:27):
Hi.
Pieter (00:28):
So please tell us a little bit more about your
career paths and how you end updoing stuff in XR.
Nina (00:35):
I started in the immersive space by studying filmmaking for
five years.
I did three degrees of film andtelevision studies and then a
Master in filmmaking.
And during that time period Ihad a YouTube channel dedicated
to gaming actually.
And I learned a lot about theonline community and space.
And I saw how storytelling andfilmmaking was dramatically
(00:58):
changing.
And I was always interested inscience fiction and holograms
and all of all of this stuff.
And so when I first came incontact with XR or augmented
reality, mixed reality, whateveryou're choosing, I was like, I
need to be in this.
So I went to every singlemeetup.
I organized a woman in VR meetupgroup.
(01:19):
And so every single event, everysingle month I went to an event
related to it and I delved intoit.
I started organizing hackathons.
The first hackathon I organized,a company came out of it where
they use virtual reality totrain people how to do CPR in
VR.
And those were the winners ofthe first hackathon.
(01:40):
I work in eyes.
And I thought, this is soamazing.
All of these other differentsectors have to integrate with
all of these new technologiesbecause the possibilities are
endless.
And I ended up being a presenterand a videographer for VR Focus,
which is a European websitededicated to the new.
So I went to all of theconferences, I traveled a lot,
discovered good technology, badtechnology, and I had to write
(02:04):
or make videos about it.
So it was kind of learning aboutwhat the technology was, who
were the big players in thespace, and talking about talking
about it, writing about it,making videos about it.
Recently I ended up working forCornerstone Partnership which is
a charity organization that usesVR to train social care workers
(02:27):
and future foster parents, howto take care of children who
come from broken homes.
So for domestic violence,alcohol abuse, all of these
things, they are using virtualreality to train them how to
parent the children properly.
And, um, that company was calledInition who built the content
and I ended up working for themas a tech consultant.
(02:49):
So working as a sales dev, as aproducer, helping on the
creative side as well.Theyactually recently went bankrupt
which isn't great.
They went down last year, butall the while I was working on
bringing virtual reality intoprison as of last year.
So I've been doing that all thewhile for almost a year now.
Pieter (03:12):
VR in prison, tell us more about that.
Nina (03:15):
So I'm helping a foundation called the[inaudible]
foundation and they've alreadybeen working on rehabilitation
in different prisons.
So they're working already withan organization called beyond
recovery.
And they have been havingincredible results.
The founder of the foundationsaw what American prisons were
(03:37):
doing in Colorado specifically.
They were using virtual realityfor youth offenders, lifers
who've been in there from a veryyoung age and they've been
training them how to reintegratewith a normal life.
If you've been in prison forlike 12 to 15 years, you might
not know what an electric caris.
You might not know how to use amicrowave.
(03:58):
You don't know what a smartphoneis, you don't know how to use a
washing machine.
All of these things that we takefor granted because we live in
normal life, they don't know howto do.
So they're using virtual realityto help prisoners and trained
them to reintegrate within anormal lifestyle.
Pieter (04:15):
And are there any results of those experiments?
Nina (04:18):
Um, so far there's been a little bit of press about it.
Um, the use offenders have beenvery positive about its use and
that's kind of what promptedthis to happen.
So I've been researching it andwe've been working together with
nodding in prison to work withincentivization for prisoners.
(04:38):
So we give them, we give theeducational workshops headsets,
and if you are interested inshowing up, you have potentially
10 minutes opportunity to besomewhere else to try something
else to bring your mind at rest.
And that is actually been quiteproductive.
A lot of attendance ineducational workshops have gone
(05:00):
up because of the headset.
So there has been very, veryuseful.
Pieter (05:05):
Okay.
So you, you mentioned that youhad three different film
studies.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your background in
film?
Nina (05:11):
So I studied film and television studies and I studied
filmmaking as well, so twodifferent ones.
Um, I started off wanting towork in Hollywood and wanting to
make blockbuster feature films.
And I've always had a hugeinterest in independent cinema
like an art form as well asdocumentaries.
(05:34):
I'm a huge fan of them.
So the first documentary I didwas in state of transit, which
was used to help.
How do I describe this?
It's a documentary thatdescribes critical areas where
refugees are in dire need ofevacuation, whether you're a
filmmaker, a journalist or ahuman rights lawyer, your life
(05:57):
can be threatened in differentlocations and you might need
immediate evacuation.
But in order to ask for asylum,it takes days or weeks or months
or years.
So there was a transit centercreated in TIMI, Shara and
Romania where refugees andimmediate dire situations need
(06:18):
to be evacuated to in order tokind of have a leeway of space
in between being granted asylumor being murdered.
So that was a documentary Iworked on.
And then following up on thegamer YouTube channel that I
had, I made a documentary aboutfemale gamers, what it means to
be a female gamer.
I got a lot of hate on X-Box.
(06:40):
Yeah, I was a, I was really intoMMOs, so I was like one of the
two only female girls and likethe whole, the whole group.
And I just, I realized there wasa lot of connotations that came
with it.
I was really interested inexploring it cause I was doing
my master's in filmmaking.
(07:00):
So I made a whole documentaryabout what does it mean to be a
female gamer because there's alot of problems that comes with
it from storytelling tocharacters, abuse online.
And this actually goes intovirtual reality because a lot of
the things that we see in videogames then goes into virtual
reality because there's stillvirtual worlds.
(07:21):
And for the younger generationthey don't, they probably won't
see a difference cause it's avirtual world.
So that documentary went out to,uh, some film festivals and then
I worked on a lot of short filmsand corporate content and music
videos and things like that.
Pieter (07:38):
Okay.
Was the documentary about thewomen in gaming, was it also the
reason why you co-founded thewomen in XR and also XRDI?
Because it seems like you're ona mission in this space now in
the VR or the XR or whatevercommunity looking for more
inclusivity.
U m, could you tell us a littlemore about that?
Nina (07:59):
Oh, this could get super interesting.
Um, how do I describe a story?
So I'm Dutch but I'm adopted andI grew up in nine different
countries and some of them Iwould say were sort of conflict
areas.
So I always grew up beingpointed at being stared at being
kind of seen as like an alien.
(08:20):
And on top of that I was a womanas well.
And so there's a lot of thingsthat I personally experienced as
a girl, as a woman, u m, and aswell being put into a box of
stereotypes and everything elsethat comes with it.
And I r ealized when I came intothe film industry that even
(08:41):
within the UK, it's, that's areally c lasses system as well.
So not only do I sound American,I'm Dutch adopted and I'm a
woman of like an ethnicbackground.
All of these things playedagainst, and what I r ealize as
I entered the space was that alot of the stories that are
being told are kind of aregurgitation of the same thing
(09:05):
sometimes.
And you need other diversevoices to want to tell their
stories.
And so I think I'm doing a lotof work in order to help people
one, f ew safe because it's notalways been a safe space and i t
still is not a safe space,especially for young w omen.
Because t here's sort of anoverlap between technology,
(09:26):
video games, film and televisionand all of these areas.
You know, with t he hashtag metoo, there have been incidents
that have rocked the immersivespace.
And I would, I would want, Iwould want to make sure that a
young person who is of anunderrepresented background
(09:46):
feels like they can tell theirstory and not feel put down
because of everything that theyare simply because they are
this.
So if I had a daughter or asister or a friend or best
friend or a niece or whatever, Iwould want them to feel
inspired.
I want them to tell theirstories.
I want them to push thetechnology forward and not think
(10:08):
about all of the barriers thatexist.
So I feel like I want to createa safe community space for
people like myself or peoplewho've been put with these
judgements on them t o f eellike they can do it and not be
bogged down by the expenses orby this barrier and giving them
a kind of like a boost upsomething that I think everybody
(10:30):
needs.
Pieter (10:30):
So that's, that's mainly the reason why you started with
XRDI.
So you started together withAsha Easton, some of the people.
Nina (10:38):
Yeah, so I actually, I organized the VR after the women
in VR meetup groups.
I wanted to create somethingbigger, a bigger platform and I
realized I didn't have thecapacity to do it.
When I worked for VR Focus, Iled something called the VR
diversity initiative, which insome sense is very much the same
thing.
So ran four workshops, trainedabout 78 different people from
(11:02):
underrepresented backgrounds andthe success stories that come
out of there are incredible.
I would say 30% of the peoplewho went through the, went
through a training of a daywhere they bill and create
something within a single daywithout any previous knowledge
whatsoever.
No film background, no codingbackground.
They went in and they createdsomething tangible.
(11:24):
And I see these people nowworking in the space.
They've been funded by Google.
They set up their own careers,they learn unity, learn coding,
and now they're in the space.
So I can see a real impact ofwhat that did.
Uh, and the possibility ofbringing in new talent, new new
people, new voices, new stories,new ways of looking at the
(11:47):
world.
And so waited to see ifsomething would come out of that
after I had left.
And then after everything that'shappened with Weinstein and
everything else in the hashtagme too age now, I realize that
people were taking advantage ofthe hashtag diversity and I
(12:08):
realized it wasn't meant to helpthem.
It was sort of a way of tappinginto a community for free
without putting any effort intoit.
And I thought, that's not okay.
We need to restart this again.
So Asha and I had been talkingabout it for a really long time
and now we're going to be doingto celebrate women's day, a
(12:30):
hackathon, half a day hackathonat Tate Modern XRDI and the hope
is, and to kind of keep thisgoing, to potentially bring it
to other countries at differentplaces, keep it growing, but I
have a true belief that peoplefrom underrepresented groups
have something new to offer.
If you have no legs, how do youmove in VR if you have no hands,
(12:52):
how do you move in VR if youcan't speak?
How do you speak in VR?
How can you put on a comfortableheadset if your hairstyle
doesn't accommodate an Oculusrift and Oculus quest, the head
strap, what if your eyes are setdifferently?
All of these things are, peoplecould see them as like, well
they're not in porn or you know,it's not the majority of the
(13:14):
population.
But what, what's reallyimportant is that they can offer
new technological solutions thatwe could have never thought of
because we've always have had,we've always had hands.
We've always had feet.
We've always seen the world andthe way that we see it.
But VR is such a new space.
It's such a new innovative spacethat these people who might see
(13:39):
the world completely differentto the way that we do, can bring
on new technologicalbreakthroughs that we might have
never thought of.
So that's why I think it'simportant.
Pieter (13:49):
Oh, okay.
Because I thought that like themission of XRDI to close a skill
gap because there is a hugeindustry wide skill shortage of
developers.
Is that right?
Nina (14:03):
I mean they come hand in hand, they come hand in hand.
If we can upscale people fromunderrepresented groups to then
get hired by companies.
We are changing the landscape ofhow stories can be told, the
technological innovations thatcan take place.
But in order for that to happen,they first need to have access.
And that's what this would beproviding.
(14:24):
The workshops are free toattend.
They're all put together byindividuals who care about the
community and might've come fromsimilar backgrounds.
And the whole idea is upscale,upscale.
We're not a educationalplatform.
We are a push through the door,get access to technological
(14:44):
innovation to hardware tosoftware that you will never
know, might not have ever hadaccess to, but you now get to
try it for free.
And if you are inspired and ifyou want to continue working in
a space, if you suddenly see acrossover in a sector that you
work in or VR, AR, MR, thensuddenly you might start up your
(15:04):
own company or suddenly youmight want to experiment and
work together with other peoplethat you might've met.
Either way.
It's that sort of inspirationthat working together that
giving you an imagination ofwhat's possible.
That really what we're trying toinspire.
And eventually if people do wantto continue down that path and
hopefully there's a platform orthere's a, you know, courses at
(15:28):
universities that will providepeople the means to upscale
quickly to then go in theindustry.
But this is really just a pinch.
It's just the opening of thedoor of inspiration and
inspiring people.
And I've seen it work before andI know that it people will want
to work in the industry aftergetting their hands on it.
Pieter (15:47):
Okay, sounds great.
So what if people are, areinterested, how can they reach
out?
What's next?
What, what can they expect ofthe programs or how can they get
in touch with you guys?
Nina (15:58):
Sure.
You head over to the website,it's XRDi.org.
You can sign up over there ifyou're interested.
If you're interested insupporting via hardware or
software or volunteering or anyother means, let us know.
There's a sort of a contact usright now, the event that we're
organizing is at Tate modern onthe 8th of March.
(16:19):
However, we plan to organizemore into future Asha and I are
hoping that we can make it aventure that potentially we get
more sponsorship, more supportand can be brought elsewhere.
The whole idea is we just wantto cultivate a, an inspirational
space for people to be inspiredand then come and join us in the
immersive community.
Pieter (16:39):
Okay.
All right.
Now it's only based or focusedon London
Nina (16:42):
Right now.
It's just based in London.
That's where Asha and I arebased.
But we have had people ask us tobring it to New Zealand already
or to bring it to wills to bringit to Canada.
And you know, all of thesethings could be a possibility if
we had the support and actualfunding for it.
But right now this is all donein our free time.
We're not getting paid for it.
(17:03):
We just really, we really care.
We really want to make it a safespace.
Pieter (17:08):
Wow.
So final question.
You told me earlier that you'reworking on a VR movie.
Could you tell us a little moreabout that?
Nina (17:16):
So having, coming from a creative background, from
storytelling, I think my realpassion is just telling stories.
And I have been seeing a lot ofVR films, a lot of VR content
for a very, very, very longtime.
And I think I know what workswell and what doesn't work well.
(17:37):
And I've had this film conceptin my mind for a very, very long
time and it's going to be usingeye-tracking.
It will have no form of dialoguewhatsoever, so it's very, I
suppose passive experience in asense that it's not fully
interactive with your hands orcontrollers.
I thought what is the best wayto tell the story if you've
(17:59):
never tried virtual realitybefore?
And eye tracking is one of theareas where I think VR hasn't
really touched upon fully,especially because I think
virtual reality falls into therealm of theater rather than
filmmaking and when it comes tointeracting with a virtual
object.
The part that's very scary or itgets interesting is when you
(18:21):
lock eyes with someone whereyou're walking on the street an
absolute stranger and you makeeye contact.
That's when something happens.
It's nonverbal.
You don't know how to explainit, but I'm sure for example, if
you go to another country, youdon't speak the language, you
can still meet face to face, eyeto eye and have some form of
interaction and so that'ssomething I'm interested in
(18:43):
working on within this piece.
It's about a seven to 12 minutelong short film.
It's, it's a animation, so it'snot actual real characters and
it plays a lot with light, soundand movement.
So the way that you interactwith the characters will be only
through your eyes and you'll beable to sort of change in
(19:03):
landscape using your eyes only.
I think this is one of the areasthat VR headsets haven't been
fully able to make use of yetbecause the headsets don't
support it, but we have somesupport from HTC Vive.
So the Vive Pro Eye does haveintegrated eye tracking and I
think there's some realsubconscious storytelling ways
(19:25):
of interacting with charactershere that could be really
interesting.
So I'm trying to get the fundingfor this.
I'm trying to get it pushedthrough and fingers crossed that
by next year or by the end ofthis year that it'll be
finished.
It's a very expensive process.
Yeah.
Pieter (19:43):
Okay.
So yeah, I would like to thankyou for this very pleasant
conversation.
It sounds very interesting whatyou're all working on and I hope
to hear more from it soonNini sothank you very much.
Nina (19:53):
Fantastic.
Thanks.
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