February 11, 2025 • 44 mins
Unlock the secrets of successful small business marketing with insights from Dave Charest, director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact. Discover how even small, impactful actions can create "wow experiences" that fuel word-of-mouth marketing and elevate your brand's digital presence without emptying your wallet. Join us as we promise a transformation in your marketing approach, leveraging email, social channels, and automation to not only engage but also build lasting relationships with your customers.
With Dave's expertise, we highlight the timeless power of word-of-mouth marketing, showing its relevance in today’s digital conversations. Learn the art of staying top-of-mind for potential customers by effectively integrating these strategies into your marketing framework and watching your small business compete with larger brands.
Our conversation is packed with practical tips, including the strategic use of tools like Instagram, email, and text messaging. We emphasize aligning marketing strategies with specific business goals, ensuring every effort is purposeful and impactful.
Whether it's setting personal benchmarks, conducting regular technology audits, or adopting a simple and focused approach to outsourcing, this episode has everything you need to enhance productivity and ensure continuous self-improvement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Word of mouth is the secret weapon of small business
marketing, yet so manybusinesses overlook its power.
In this episode, I sit downwith Dave Charest, director of
Small Business Success atConstant Contact, to break down
the digital marketing successcycle and why word of mouth
marketing should be your toppriority.
We'll discuss practical stepsto maximize your marketing
(00:22):
efforts, automate engagement andcreate strategies that truly
drive business growth.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
If you're a small business owner looking for
simple yet effective ways tostand out, this is the episode
for you, so stay tuned to thenext episode of the your Digital
Marketing Coach podcast digitalsocial media content,
influencer marketing, blogging,podcasting, blogging, tiktoking,
linkedin, twitter, facebook,instagram, youtube, seo, sem,
(00:51):
ppc, email marketing Whew,there's a lot to cover.
Whether you're a marketingprofessional, entrepreneur or
business owner, you need someoneyou can rely on for expert
advice.
Good thing you've got Neil onyour side, because Neil Schaefer
is your digital marketing coach, helping you grow your business
(01:17):
with digital first marketing,one episode at a time.
This is your digital marketingcoach and this is Neil Schaefer.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey everybody, this is Neil Schaefer.
Welcome to episode number themagical 399 of this podcast.
I am, of course, your digitalmarketing coach, neil Schaefer
man.
You know episode number 299,looking back was on January 6th
2023.
So well, taking me a little bitover two years to get 100 more
(01:51):
in the bank, but you know I'mglad I'm back to a consistent
schedule of 50 episodes a year.
I fell behind a little bit lastyear but playing catch up this
year.
If you can see that from thefrequency that I've been
publishing and I am just happieras ever, digging in to these
interviews, my solo episodes,sharing video clips on the
socials, publishing LinkedInnewsletters, getting your
(02:12):
feedback, engaging with you I amreally committed to the long
haul for this podcast.
So I ain't going anywhere and Ihope you're not going anywhere.
You can ensure you don't goanywhere by simply hitting that
subscribe button so that youknow whether you're a corporate
marketer, you're a businessowner, an entrepreneur, you work
at a startup, you're a contentcreator, service provider.
I try to give a little bit ofdigital marketing medicine to
(02:37):
all of you.
So today, as always, right thetitle, the teaser we talk about
small business, but what I teachyou is applicable.
Really, even if you are a bigbusiness, you should be using
these concepts, because if asmall business can do it, big
business should be able to scaleit right.
But, as you know, smallbusiness marketing is tough.
I'm a small business, yes, eventhough I'm an expert.
(02:59):
It ain't easy right, especiallywhen you're competing against
bigger brands, bigger entitieswith bigger budgets.
But the good news you don'tneed a massive budget to see
results, you just need the rightstrategy.
That's pretty much my DNA.
It's also the DNA of my guest,dave Charest, director of small
business success at ConstantContact, who I had a chance to
(03:21):
see on stage in Los Angeles atthe Small Business Expo.
I want to say this was back inOctober of 2024, but I saw him
on stage.
I went up to him.
I gave him a copy of DigitalThreads.
He also said he was a podcaster.
I'm like Dave, I got to get youon my show.
I got to get you to share yourwisdom with my audience.
So here we are.
So we discuss what he calls thedigital marketing success cycle
(03:43):
and how, especially smallbusinesses can maximize their
efforts.
Dave is going to share somevaluable insights on the power
of word of mouth marketing, theimportance of email in building
lasting relationships constantcontact after all, is an email
marketing platform the veryfirst one that I subscribed to,
actually and how automation cansave time while keeping your
business top of mind.
(04:03):
If you're looking for a smarter, more strategic way to grow
your brand, this conversation ispacked with practical tips to
help you succeed.
So let's move on to theinterview.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
You're listening to your Digital Marketing Coach.
This is Neil Schaefer.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Hey everybody, this is Neil Schaefer, and welcome to
another edition of the yourDigital Marketing Coach podcast.
I've been trying to spend timewhenever there is a convention
or a show in town aroundmarketing.
I do my best to try to get tothese and just to keep my finger
on the pulse of what'shappening in the industry
network.
Often there's technologyvendors there that I can engage
with, find out about theirlatest technology.
(04:43):
Vendors there that I can engagewith, find out about their
latest offerings.
So recently I had a chance,because I'm located in the
greater Los Angeles metropolitanarea, to visit the Small
Business Expo.
And, lo and behold, when I wassitting there looking at what
are the presentations I shouldwatch, I saw a very, very
interesting one on smallbusiness marketing.
(05:04):
A lot of talk about smallbusiness, email marketing,
social media marketing.
I'm like this is exactly downmy digital threads alley, for
those of you that know my book.
So I went in and, lo and behold,today's guest was actually the
keynote speaker at that day,speaking in front of hundreds of
people.
His name is Dave Sharest.
He is the director of smallbusiness success at Constant
(05:26):
Contact, one of the leadingemail marketing software
providers.
Constant Contact is actuallythe very, very first email
marketing software that I used,and now that they've added tons
of automations and I love theuser interface, I'm looking at
maybe going back to them.
I'll have to talk to today'sguest about that but his
presentation was so compellingand it was really, really
focused on that small businessmarketing audience, and I've
(05:49):
felt the same way.
I've seen speeches about socialmedia marketing or digital
marketing, where they bring upall these really, really big
brands as case studies.
But of course, these big brandscan do those things because
they have big budgets, they haveloads of people.
Us small businesses don't havethat, and that's why Dave's
speech really resonated with me.
The minute he finished, I wentup to him and I'm like Dave,
(06:12):
will you please come on mypodcast, because I think that
his message needs to be heard bya lot more people.
So, without further ado, whatmore can I say?
But I'm really excited abouttoday's interview.
Dave Charest, welcome to theyour Digital Marketing Coach
podcast, my friend.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Hey, Neil, Thanks so much for having me.
You know it was funny when youcame up to afterwards and we
were chatting a little bit and Iwas like, oh, I know you, I
think we've.
You know, like ships in thenight, have crossed paths over
the years but never actually hada chance to meet.
So it was an absolute pleasureto actually get to see you in
person.
And thank you so much forinviting me on the podcast today
.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh, the honor is mine , my friend, really excited to
dig into today's topic.
But before we start, you know,director of small business
success, you are also and Ishould have mentioned host of
the Be A Marketer podcast.
So you are firmly in podcasting, marketing, email marketing.
But where did this all start?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know, even before Constant Contact what was your
initial journey into marketing?
Yeah, great question.
So my journey into this all Imean I think I started it's
probably like 2006 is when Ikind of got the ball rolling
here around that time and I hadbeen living in New York.
I have a background in theater,so I went to school for theater
and I had a job that I had beenworking at while I was in
(07:27):
school to help pay for thingsand all of that, of course, and
I ended up kind of moving up inthe ranks in there and I was
doing insurance billing and itwas one of those things that I
was like how the hell did I endup here right, that's a story of
a hill.
My friend Right, right, myfriend Right, right, I'm like
what.
And so I ended up being at aplace where I just wasn't happy
(07:47):
at the job anymore and I haddone a really good job of kind
of compartmentalizing.
But it got to the point where Iwas.
You know, sunday night wouldroll around and I was starting
to feel sick to my stomachbecause I was like, oh, monday I
got to go in and I got to dothis thing and my wife and I
started talking and it was atthis time where I really started
to get interested and excitedabout what was happening in the
(08:07):
online space right, just interms of social media and
marketing and the ways you couldconnect with people and so I
started really going down a pathof learning a lot about that.
I was kind of just teachingmyself this stuff and I said to
my wife I was like you know, Ican't do this thing anymore with
the insurance building.
I need to move on to somethingelse.
And we thought it'd be a greatidea if I started my own
(08:30):
business.
I laugh at that because I hadtwo little kids at the time and
my wife had the opportunity towork, so it just worked out
where I was able to kind of getsomething going.
I lined up some clients and Ireally started to implement all
of these things.
Now, what I learned during thiswas that man, did I suck at
running a business?
Really good at the marketingpieces, really could understand
that was really good atexplaining it.
I was doing a lot of work withdifferent theater companies and
(08:52):
things like that and helpingthem with their marketing, and
it got to a point where I waslike, okay, this doesn't make
sense, we were going to moveback to.
I'm from the Massachusetts areaoriginally.
I was going to move back hereand at that time I had a friend
of mine on Facebook, funnilyenough who.
I was like, oh, this personworks for Constant Contact.
(09:14):
And I was like, well, thatwould be interesting.
I wonder if they've gotanything available.
Because I was looking for, I waslooking to transition into like
an actual job, right, and therewas this opening for a content
developer, right, this wassomebody.
And it was like the jobdescription read like dear Dave,
do you do these things?
And I was like reading thisthing and I was like, yeah, yeah
, I do, I do do those things.
Because I was heavily into thecontent pieces of things and how
(09:36):
that all works.
And so I reached out to myfriend long story to spoke with
the hiring manager.
We had like this 15-minuteconversation hit it off right
away because I had a lot ofthings I was excited to start to
implement.
And I was like, oh, constantcontact got a big audience, it'd
be great to do that.
And 15-minute conversation gotoff the phone.
I said to my wife I'm like I'mdefinitely going to get that job
(09:58):
.
And within two weeks we weremoved back to Massachusetts.
I was starting at ConstantContact.
My kids enrolled in school andhere we are 13 years later and
moved up the ranks there fromcontent developer to manager of
content and social.
I was director of contentmarketing for a while and now
into this role here, where I'mmore forward-facing just in
(10:19):
terms of representing thecompany at events and hosting
the podcast and those types ofthings.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love the unique stories thateveryone brings to this field of
marketing.
You know, starting your theaterexperience Now I'm like, okay,
you look very comfortable onstage, so I get it now right,
but start also being a smallbusiness owner yourself and
understanding the challenges.
I think that's really criticalto the job that you do.
So, you know, congratulationson the journey.
(10:46):
So today, fast forward.
We're going to be talking aboutthis digital marketing success
lifecycle for SMB smallbusinesses and I think one of
the first things when we talkedabout this beforehand was
focusing your marketing effortsto increase word of mouth.
And you know, as I said, whenyou gave your presentation, I
(11:07):
was like nodding.
I think my neck I was soreafter that, but, but there were
so many awesome takeaways.
And just this importance ofword of mouth, you know,
especially for small businessesthat are trying to get their
name out there, it's somethingthat you know people don't talk
about.
They, they go off to the nextshiny object.
You know, tiktok, sexy orwhatever.
It is right.
So let's sort of dumb it down alittle bit and start with that
(11:29):
importance of word mouthmarketing.
And then what are the thingsthat we can do to try to get
more of for our business.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, time and time again.
So I'm very fortunate to beable to talk to small businesses
all the time, and we dointernal panels at Constant
Contact and, obviously, throughthe podcast I've been talking to
them and at events like theones where we met.
And time and time again, whenwe ask where do you get most of
your business, it's word ofmouth is typically the answer.
(11:55):
And, of course, as you know,word of mouth now extends into
this online space and thereality is, if you break down
marketing into its corecomponent, it's about
communicating with the peoplethat are, you know, have
interest in the product orservice that you offer.
And it's really about justkeeping your business top of
(12:16):
mind so that when you know, theyknow what you do and so that
when they're ready for thatthing, or if somebody says, hey,
you know somebody that doessuch and such, they're going to
think of you first.
You're just trying to shortcircuit that piece of thought,
right, because the reality islike we're looking for those
shortcuts, right?
When somebody asks us somethingoh, what's the answer?
(12:37):
What's the answer?
And I'm going to think of thething that comes to mind first.
And so, ultimately, that's whatwe're trying to do, and and so,
ultimately, that's what we'retrying to do, and in that online
space now it's really about howdo you just be part of more of
those conversations, right?
So how are you there?
How do you show up so thatyou've got more opportunities to
bring people into your sphereand so you have more people to
(12:57):
influence and, hopefully, get todo business with you?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And would you say then, and sort of fast forward
over that definition of thedigital marketing success cycle.
But would you say, this is sortof that.
First step is you already havea business.
Easiest thing you can start todo is incite that word of mouth.
Is that like the base, wouldyou say, or did we fast forward?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think so.
So I think, if we're looking atthe cycle itself, it's really
about taking three specificactions, right?
And I think the ultimate core ofit is knowing that, like we
were applying this to marketing,because I think it really works
for anything as you think aboutwhat you're doing, but the idea
is to review what you're doing,make a plan based on what
you've learned through thatreview and then actually put
(13:39):
time on the calendar, executeagainst that plan.
So these are the three thingsthat we see that I've seen
business owners do time and timeagain to start to make success
go for them from a marketingperspective and just from a
growth perspective for theirbusiness.
Right, they are constantlygoing back to say, okay, here's
what's happening, here are theadjustments that I need to make,
so here's the plan I'm going toput together for that, and then
(14:00):
I'm actually going to put timein the calendar.
So I actually do those things.
I mean, I'm sure you'veexperienced this as well, but
you go to these events you know,I just finished speaking at the
Guru Conference, for exampleand you get all of these great
ideas and you have these thingsthat you want to do, and then
you go home and you forget allabout them, right, and so you
really do need to do this kindof triumvirate of things right
(14:20):
To be able to really take actionand make progress, and it's
often that it's progress overperfection.
It's about moving forward,learning and then taking the
next steps.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think that you
know, beginning with the word ofmouth and I attest to it myself
.
It's funny, dave.
You know I'm a fractional CMO.
So the minute you put thattitle on LinkedIn, you have all
these people saying, well, weoffer services to help
fractional CMOs get new clients.
All these people reaching out,but at the end of the day, the
clients really come from likeknow and trust, and overwhelming
(14:52):
majority of that is from wordof mouth.
It's something that we allintuitively understand.
It's hard to measure and it'shard to implement.
But I'm curious do you have anytactics for those that are
listening, things that you'veseen that companies have done?
Obviously, being top of mindmeans being where people are,
(15:12):
and we know that's social media,we know that's email, we know
that people search forinformation Now we got AI that
people are searching as well.
But any sort of tactical adviceyou might give the listeners on
how to potentially increasethat word of mouth?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah.
So how we look at it atConstant Contact is through this
lens of what we call engagementmarketing, and the idea is
basically wherever you have aninteraction with a potential
customer this could be online,this could be at the store, this
could be whatever it is thatthey're visiting your website
they get a flyer in the mail youreally want to look for ways to
provide a great experience forthose people.
(15:45):
We call them wow experiences,right, and that wow doesn't have
to be anything complex.
It's really just about thinkingof something in relation to
your business that you do.
That might be a little bitdifferent, right, and sometimes
that could be as simple.
As you know, somebody walksinto the store and somebody's
there to say hello.
Right, it's like these simplethings, because oftentimes
people aren't thinking aboutthese things, and if you can do
(16:09):
something that makes somebodyfeel good about the interaction
that they've had with you,that's obviously something that
people will talk about.
We know people talk about thingsthat they really enjoy, and
they also talk about things thatthey don't enjoy, right,
probably more so, but whenthey're having that great
experience with you, it's agreat opportunity to entice them
to stay connected with you,right, that could mean following
you on social, giving you anemail or a mobile number,
(16:30):
something like that, that allowsyou to stay connected, and then
it's putting a plan in place toengage with those people, to
stay in touch, whether that's inthe inbox, on the phone,
wherever it may be to.
Again, now you have thisopportunity to stay more top of
mind, and again, that's whenpeople, when they think of you,
(16:50):
when they need you or they knowof something that you're
offering that brings more peopleto your door the social
visibility piece starts tohappen when you're doing these
engagements online, right Ofcourse, and so you start looking
at people engaging with thethings that you're doing online
or you're interacting withcustomers.
That gets you in front of otherpeople that are connected to
them, which can bring morepeople to the door, and that's
(17:11):
kind of the cycle that we gothrough.
That that's how we explain itLike.
This is ultimately what we'retrying to do and try to put into
place for our businesses, andif we can just keep feeding that
, we're going to see thatcontinually bring things back to
our business.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So you know, feeding that we're going to see that
continually bring things back toour business.
So the important thing there isthis focus right of your
marketing and it almost soundslike you're recommending does
your current marketing, when youlook at it from the lens of
generating word of mouth does itgenerate word of mouth or does
it not?
And let that be the way toguide you in what you should be
investing in doing.
Is that sort of a correctassumption?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I think it's that and it's looking at.
Then, now you've got thesetools available to you, right?
So how do you use those toolsto help you take advantage of
that right and do that?
And what do those tools need todo?
Because they've each got adifferent purpose and they all.
I think it's important to note,too, that these all work
together right.
It's not about doing one thingright, and I think that's the
(18:05):
sometimes the misnomer right?
Everyone's always looking forthe silver bullet, if you will,
right, what's the thing that'sgoing to?
You know, push you over theedge, right?
And sometimes you get to apoint where something breaks and
then it feels like, oh, that'sthe thing that is the breaking
point, but the reality is thatonly happened because of all of
(18:27):
the things cumulatively comingtogether to make that happen,
right.
I mean, you've been doing thisfor a long time, neil, right.
Like building up and getting tothis place wasn't just one
action.
It's a bunch of actions thatyou've taken over the years to
get here right, and so I thinkthat's the important thing to
think about here too.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, and I think you know, as a small business owner
, I'm just reflecting on my ownrecent marketing.
You know, coming out with a newbook, there are so many
different channels, but Iimmediately go to Amazon because
If you want to increase salesfor a book, you need word of
mouth.
You're not going to get word ofmouth unless you get that book
into the hands of people.
This is why I'm investing indoing Goodreads giveaways or
Amazon ads, because if I cansell even if I can sell at a
(19:04):
loss and get that book, I canmake it back in.
The word of mouth is sort ofthe mindset there.
So I've been influenced by yourpresentation as well and I
think if everyone had that, whatwill generate that?
And I think if everyone hadthat, what will generate that?
And in digital threads, I have aseparate chapter on
user-generated content.
I know this gets maybe a littlebit advanced for the average
small business owner, but howInstagrammable can you make your
(19:26):
customer experience?
I think you also touched uponsome of that as well.
So these are the things I thinkabout that hopefully everyone
in the audience should bethinking about as well.
So we now have this strategy ofthis focus on word of mouth,
marketing.
You mentioned that there aretwo questions that you need to
ask yourself to support yourgoals in terms of this whole.
You know cycle and I'm a bigfan of the word.
(19:46):
You know the term flywheel.
I almost feel like once you'rein the cycle, it becomes its own
flywheel, sort of generates itsown success.
But you know what are these twoquestions and how are they
going to help us, you know, getgoing on this cycle.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think the thing to recognizeis that oftentimes, people are
asking or people are giving eventhe wrong advice, right,
sometimes, because what happensis we all have access to the
same tools.
How we use them is really basedon what it is that we're trying
to do, and I think that's thepiece that's often missing from
(20:19):
the equation.
Someone will say, oh, you gotto get on Instagram, you got to
do this.
Well, why do I have to do that,right?
Yeah, exactly, you don't knowwhat I'm trying to do.
How about you ask that questionfirst and then tell me, right,
and so I think you got to startthere, right?
Because if you are, you know,trying to open a new store
versus trying to run an event,the things that you need to do
(20:40):
and how you use those tools tosupport you are going to be very
different, and these thingschange all the time.
Again, the importance ofreviewing and then putting a
plan in place and then executingthe plan, because you're going
to be continually shifting basedon new milestones that you're
reaching, shifting based on, youknow, new milestones that
you're reaching, and so thequestions are really, I think,
(21:01):
when you start looking at, okay,if you're reviewing what you're
doing from a marketingperspective.
You know what you're trying todo.
What are the?
Are there things that you mayneed to implement?
Am I missing something?
Right?
We?
Often my presentation focuses onmaking sure you have a website,
of course, so people canconfirm that you're a business
that they want to work with.
Right, people are still goingto go there to do that.
Having those social channels inplace so that you are
connecting and engaging withpeople, because people will also
(21:22):
be looking there.
But then, also, making sure youhave an email or text marketing
, because you own thatrelationship and you have a way
to contact people.
And so, as you look at that,okay, are there tools I might be
missing?
Right?
Sure, there are other thingsyou may need to do, but, you
know, focused on, you know, yourparticular goal at that moment.
Are there things I need toimplement?
The other question I think isare there things that I can
(21:43):
improve?
Okay, so here's what I am doing.
Okay, based on some things I'mhearing, since I think there are
some fundamental things thatyou need to put in place,
regardless of your goals.
Right, like, making sure you'reasking people to join your
email list.
Right, pointing people fromsocial to that, bringing people
closer, doing that on yourwebsite, doing that when you're
at events, doing all of thosethings so that when you are
(22:06):
doing specific things andmarketing things, you have more
people to go to to be able tohopefully influence.
And so those are the two bigquestions I think you need to
look at, because those point youin a direction of like okay,
I'm doing this, but I have to do, I have to make some changes,
add something or improve onsomething to help me get to that
next level.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, you know that very first topic of you know you
got to do Instagram.
I recently had a chat with oneof my fractional CMO clients and
they were just focusing onInstagram followers.
And so what is?
What is the ROI of the follower?
Now, if we talk aboutimpressions or engagements and
as an indicator of word of mouth, you're not going to get
engagements unless you getvisibility.
And with the way the algorithmswork, it's not necessarily
(22:45):
about followers, right, and thateven leads to.
Well, you're spending 50% ofyour time on stories versus
reels.
Is that a good bet?
So, just taking a step backevery once in a while I like to
do these on a quarterly basismyself of just really looking at
your activities and are theyaligned with this.
You know this digital marketingsuccess cycle that we began to
talk about, so I sort of want toget back to that, because we
(23:06):
talked a lot about that, thatword of mouth, that that should
be the focus.
To begin things.
What are some of the othercomponents of that cycle that we
haven't talked about?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So, when we get into the review plan, execute, so
review.
Of course, we're checking in onwhat we're doing and how that's
working for us the planningpiece.
I think there are some thingshere that I think are important
for folks to focus on.
I mentioned making sure thatwe're collecting email addresses
right.
We're getting contactinformation in terms of mobile
numbers, those types of things.
I think the other thing toreally think about is you know,
(23:39):
are there ways that you can thenuse those tools to engage with
people right At key moments?
And I'm thinking of putting inplace like simple automations.
For example, right whensomebody joins your list, you
have an email that goes out tothem, that welcomes them and
maybe delivers on the thing thatyou entice them to sign up with
?
Right, are you using?
Are you using the thing thatyou entice them to sign up with?
Right, are you using the datathat you have?
(24:00):
Do you have a birthday,something like a birth date,
that you can then send anautomated happy birthday right,
like little simple things?
Are there things like ananniversary email?
Do you have like a time wheremaybe somebody joined your list
or maybe they first bought theirfirst product with you?
All of these reasons and I wantto call them excuses in many
ways to connect right.
(24:22):
In a way, that's a little offthe path, right, but you can set
these up and they work for youall the time.
I think it's also understandingyou know when is the right time
to use a text message, let'ssay, versus an email, and
oftentimes, you know, I thinkthat boils down to thinking
through a couple of questionsthat you want to ask yourself.
Right, because text messagingis interesting, because when
somebody sends you one, you'regoing to look at your phone
right away.
And again, as long as peopleare expressed interest in
(24:42):
receiving that type of stuff,you really want to ask yourself
well, is the thing that I'msending, is it timely?
Is it going to be of interestto the person receiving it?
Does it feel personal?
Is it conversational?
Right, because we always wantwhat we're doing from a
marketing perspective to matchthe nature of the channel, right
, so we're using it in that wayand we're leaning into the
strength of that channel.
I think it's also important tostart thinking through specific
(25:03):
things.
You can do so from an emailperspective.
Really, at the very least,think about including two types
of emails in your strategy,right?
Promotional emails andnon-promotional emails.
That means, yeah, promotionalemails, of course, as you might
imagine, are things that havesome type of sale or discount or
some type of time sensitivityto them.
But then those non-promotionalemails are really things that
(25:24):
are designed to engage, educate,right, to add value to the
relationship.
So people get to know you, youstart to build those
relationships.
We want to use those two thingsbecause you don't want to be
saying buy this, buy this, buythis, buy this all the time.
Right, there is thatrelationship piece that comes
into play here, and so those twokind of help you stay top of
mind.
Again, there's that word, right, stay top of mind.
(25:45):
So when people are thinking of,or ready for they're going to
think of, your business first,and so you know, those are just
a few things that you can reallystart to think about.
I think it's also important tolook at the social channels that
you're using.
Oftentimes we see people makethe mistake of and to social
media's credit, right, I'm justusing the general term here, of
course, but we do a really goodjob of they do a really good job
(26:08):
of making you feel like you'remissing out on something if
you're not participating on them.
Right and to your point,looking at the metrics and
things like that, they also do areally good job of giving you a
lot of metrics that may or maynot be important to you, right?
But it makes it feel like you'redoing something right, and so
it's really about finding thechannel that makes sense.
On people who say, well, whereare your customers?
(26:30):
I think, yes, that's acomponent of it, but the other
piece of it is where do you feelcomfortable to, as a person,
doing the marketing right, asthe business?
And so you have to find wherethose start to overlap so that
you can focus on one channel,figure out how that works best
for your business and getsomething from that.
Start to see the value that isbringing to you before you add
(26:53):
another channel, becauseoftentimes I've seen too many
people kind of take the cut andpaste kind of mentality to it
and that might be fine.
Again, I don't know what yourgoal is, right.
So if your goal is just to beeverywhere, that's perfectly
acceptable.
But if your goal is to actuallyyou know, maybe get some more
engagement or have somebody dosomething, you may want to take
a different tact to it, right,and so it's about leaning in,
(27:16):
learning what works and thenadding something to that so you
don't end up just spinning yourwheels and getting frustrated,
because I find we oftenover-index on social Amen, amen.
I don't really know why that is.
I think it's part of the humanelement of it, right, and those
things that the dopamine hitsand things like that.
But we overemphasize there andif we just use that in a strong
(27:40):
way but then shifted some ofthat energy to a tool like email
or SMS, for example, that mayend up changing your business in
ways you didn't think it wouldright.
So time and time again, when wetalk to folks, it's about what
makes them successful.
They're like oh, I do a weeklynewsletter, right, I've been
doing it since this time, foryears, and we've talked to
(28:01):
people that I can think of oneof our real estate agent
customers who, I think since2007,.
He's been sending a whiteweekly email.
He's built this list up.
He just shares his thoughts onthe market.
He doesn't prospect for clientsanymore and he closes a hundred
deals a year just because hesends this email.
Right, and he's got people onthis list and he's the first
person that they think of.
(28:22):
Right, because somebody in theleadership space who similar
weekly email sends some tips andthings like that, but also
includes she sells things thatyou can use in your leadership
trainings and all that, and ofcourse, she does courses and all
that, but similar, she sends aweekly email, has a deal in
(28:42):
there.
Every Wednesday is a good salesday on her website.
Right, it's doing those typesof things, it's showing up
consistently, it's being thereand just it's that consistency.
I think that's the big word inmarketing as well.
Right, just making sure thatyou're doing those things that
allow you to be thereconsistently, because when
people you never know whensomeone's going to be ready, but
(29:02):
they're going to rememberbecause you're always there and
they're going to come to youfirst.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, now I'm remembering why I really loved
your speech, because what youpreach and what I've been
talking about are very muchaligned.
So this success cycle is plan,do check, act.
And this is exactly PDCA.
Professor Edwards Deming, thisis a framework that I talk about
and I think it's veryappropriate for marketing.
Treat it as an experiment, butyou need to plan, do check and
(29:24):
act upon that.
And the other one is and I wrotein Digital Threads because I
believe that there's three maindigital channels you have search
, email, social, and the onechannel that people put too much
weight on definitely is thesocial and the least on email.
So I love the fact that youbrought up the email, because
the social becomes this hamsterwheel of content creation that
you know once a week, twice aweek, three, three times a week.
(29:45):
Now I got stories, oh, I got tobe authentic.
Oh, I got to use the latest.
You know filters and it couldreally be a time suck, for it is
important.
But you know that email,especially when you set up those
automations, you set it up onceand you forget about it, and
it's constantly engaging yourbehalf in a channel that you own
right, which is email versussocial, where you hope your
followers will see your content,and we know that that's a game
(30:08):
of diminishing returns.
So, yeah, I couldn't agree moreand I hope that, if there's one
thing and obviously yourepresent Constant Contact, but
even if you didn't and I don'trepresent any of these companies
email definitely is that pieceand I'm sort of excited.
So I actually am launching aShopify store for the first time
for my books and I'm going toput my consulting services on
(30:30):
there as well.
And obviously, when we talkabout e-commerce, klaviyo is
this company that is reallydeeply embedded in Shopify and
all my clients use them.
So, for the first time, it'slike, hey, and it does raise
that question that you broughtup.
Well, I added it, but how wouldI use it?
And if we have that samementality with social media,
like, how are we going to usethis?
What conversations are we goingto have?
And we do it with intent.
(30:50):
Like you said, promotionalcontent, advertisements do not
generate word of mouth.
What sort of content mightgenerate word of mouth?
So it's the same concept.
And also another thing youbrought up is that relationship
building same concept, and alsoanother thing you brought up is
that you know that relationshipbuilding.
So in digital threads I havethis, you know, funnel of, of
digital relationships, of howyou you bring relationships in a
(31:13):
similar funnel, and email isjust critical.
You know checking in on aregular basis when you do them
right.
So I hope you know one of thetakeaways is the importance of
email as being centered all this.
But another one is thatintentional, you know, creation
of content that is focused onthat word of mouth and also that
relationship building andputting everything you do
through that lens.
So these are really greatreminders for everyone listening
.
But we're not done yet.
Dave, you mentioned that thereare some productivity tips,
(31:36):
because obviously this is a lot,I think, like any other, when
we talk about like the flywheel,once you get this going it
becomes like muscle memory, butuntil you get this going, it
becomes like muscle memory, butuntil you get it going, it
sounds like a lot of work.
It might be a lot of work, butyou promised that there are ways
of staying productive in theprocess, so I'd love if you
could give that advice to ouraudience.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think there are a coupleof things there.
One, of course, is, as you'regoing through this process and
you're getting to this placewhere, okay, you understand what
it is you're trying to do, youhave your goals, you know how
you're going to use some ofthese tools.
It's really the number onething, time and time again, I
hear from people who aresuccessful with this marketing
stuff is they put time in thecalendar to do the work, whether
(32:16):
that's a half an hour, whetherit's an hour, and my goal is
always to all right, how are yougoing to use that time?
Right?
So we're trying to give you thetips to like lean into, like,
all right, here's how I'm goingto do this thing, and it's by
putting that time in first andforemost.
So it's looking at what you'redoing.
Maybe there are multiple thingsthat you need to do.
(32:36):
I think it's about prioritizingthat work.
So I often recommend to peopleokay, circle three things of on
the list of things that you needto do from a marketing
perspective.
Circle those three things, cool.
Now pick one of them what'smost important to you right now,
and then schedule the time, putthat in the calendar.
So then you're working towardsthat, then you can move to the
next thing.
I think it's very easy to feeloverwhelmed by everything,
(32:58):
because there are a lot ofthings coming at us, and if we
think about a small businessowner who's, you know, not just
doing marketing and I think thisis an important point to bring
up too, because I think there'sa couple of different types of
businesses right, it's very easyfor you and I to talk about
what we're doing on social,because part of our role and our
job is to be on social.
Indeed, you also havebusinesses that aren't building
(33:21):
themselves on social as much asthey're using social to
accentuate what they're doing,and I think there's a different
cadence, there's a different wayto approach that, right?
So, like, someone buildingtheir business online may need
to be online more than someonewho's just kind of using that to
help, you know again, get theword out about their business a
(33:42):
little bit more.
And so I say that because it'svery easy to compare yourself
when you're looking at things onsocial and be like wow, look at
all the engagement that'shappening over there, or look at
all the followers this personhas, and I feel like those
things aren't as important,depending on the nature of your
business right.
You really want to stay focusedon what it is that you're doing
, the people that you're serving, and what impact the things
(34:04):
that you're doing are having onyour particular business, and so
try not to fall into that trapof using a social to compare
right, compare against yourself,set benchmarks and goals for
yourself and work towards those.
The other thing I think isimportant is to really think
about.
You know most of the tools thatyou're using today are
(34:25):
integrated with other tools thatyou're using in many ways.
You know so, if I look atConstant Contact, for example,
we are integrated with toolslike you mentioned, shopify,
right.
Canva is another big one thateverybody is using right, like
those tools specifically.
So let's go to Shopify.
If you can integrate that withyour constant contact account, a
(34:46):
couple of things are going tohappen.
You're going to get yourcontacts that are, you know,
shopping with you are going tocome in.
Some automated lists are goingto be created for you so you can
see people who are first-timebuyers versus you know multiple
purchases or haven't boughtanything.
You start to get data that isimportant to you, but, above
that, as you start to createemails, you're also going to be
(35:06):
connected to your store, and soyou don't have to go through
this process of like oh, I wantto talk about widget X.
Well, I don't have to create animage for widget X and then
write the description and thenyou know, load all that stuff
into my constant contact account.
It's already there.
All you're doing is justdragging a block into your email
.
That then pulls up all thatinformation that you can then
edit if you want to right.
(35:27):
So, again, that's saving youvaluable time that you know
you'd be spending doing thatwhen you could be doing other
things.
I think most tools today havesome type of AI component
available to them.
I think those are important toexperiment with and to play with
to see how that can help you.
So you know, for example,constant contact can help write
(35:48):
your email, copy your, yoursocial media, copy your, your
text messages.
It can build from an email tohelp you summarize that email to
share out if you wanted to dosomething like that.
Again, these are all ways,particularly if you're not a
marketing brain, and it's notright for everybody, right?
Some people, that's the piecethat they are good at, and so
they're going to lean into that,but other people, it's not the
(36:09):
thing that they're good at, sothey need something to kind of
start from right, and these areall things that help make that
process a little easier.
You know, one of the things I'mmost excited about in terms of
constant contact and helpingfolks in this area Because it's
often, yeah, how do you puttogether the strategy?
What am I supposed to do?
How do all these tools worktogether?
We have this tool that justcame out recently called
Campaign Builder, where youactually let it know what you're
(36:30):
trying to do and then it buildsa plan for you, including the
thinking behind it in terms of,like social, maybe you want to
include an event in there, butemail text and it gives you the
timings and when all of thosethings are supposed to happen.
So you can then say, okay, yeah, I want to do this, I can
schedule that, I can schedulethat, make adjustments that I
(36:51):
need to, but then you've gotyour multi-channel campaign in
place, because we talked aboutearlier how it's not really just
one thing.
You want to be in all of theseplaces, so people are seeing it
there, but, again, using thosetools in the right way, and so
these are all ways that reallyallow you to take a little bit
of time, investment to figurethe thing out right.
(37:11):
And what I like about ConstantContact it is designed for small
business owners who are not,you know, marketers by trade,
but rather necessity.
So it's pretty easy to kind ofget started and get going.
But it's all about settingthose things up, setting up the
automations, and then savingyourself time so you have things
that are working for you andthen you can build on them as
(37:32):
you find.
My hope is always you're goingto do something and you're going
to say, oh, wow, that works,what else can I do?
Right, but oftentimes we startto try to do everything and then
nothing is really working andwe get dissuaded from even
wanting to invest there again,and I think that ultimately is
to the detriment of the business.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, a lot of important takeaways there.
I want to focus on a few.
Technology is this thing thatyou might have invested in
something, but is it going thedirection you want it to go?
So I always recommend atechnology audit and I know if
you're a small business owner.
This is a lot, but like once ayear, you know, because it's
(38:12):
human nature Once you get usedto using something you continue
to use it.
But that case in point, right.
So I have a WordPress site.
I've always used just thegeneral newsletter.
You know email marketingsoftware.
I don't need to name the name,it's not important for the
conversation.
But then I got the Shopifystore going, and immediately,
because my developer is familiarwith Klaviyo.
And then boom, right.
But now I'm going to have twoseparate email lists, whereas if
I had originally used ConstantContact because you already have
(38:34):
that Shopify functionalityintegration I can then use, I
can get the best of both worlds.
But I'm not going to have that,at least at the beginning,
until I move constant contact.
So this is something where andyou know those AI features and,
yes, you can use ChatGPT.
But it's that productivity ofhaving it inside and I love that
campaign manager you talkedabout.
You know, this is my firstexperience with Shopify.
(38:55):
It's like it guides you throughthe whole process.
You need a shipping policy.
Oh, here's a template that youcan use.
We're not lawyers, but feelfree to use this as a starting
point.
And I love the fact that you'regiving small business owners a
starting point, because I thinkthat's critical.
And the other point I wanted tomake about productivity and I
have a dedicated chapter indigital threads is also
outsourcing.
As a small business owner, youdon't need to do all this right,
(39:16):
and if you want to do a searchon a Fiverr Upwork for constant
contact email campaign builder,I am sure those people are out
there.
So that's my other thing thatwe often forget about.
But, dave, this has been reallyawesome advice.
Is there anything, when we talkabout the digital marketing
success cycle for small business, anything that we left out of
the conversation today?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, I'll just add this that I think it's really
easy to feel overwhelmed becauseeverything is coming at you
very fast, everything ischanging very quickly and I
think it's okay to say take abreath.
The things are actually verysimplistic at the end of the day
.
And if you keep it simplistic,again, go through this motion,
review, plan, execute.
(39:56):
I'm just trying to keep mybusiness top of mind.
It feels more achievable whenyou can start to do that, and
that's ultimately where you needto be, because doing something
too much leads to inaction, andif you can right size it and
make progress towards something,you're going to be in a much
better position.
And I think that's theimportant message to take away
(40:17):
from all of this you can do it.
You don't have to do everything.
Do what's right for you, butunderstand how it works so that,
to your point, if you're hiringsomebody or doing something
like that, you know that they'regoing to be moving you in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, it is a marathon and not a sprint and so
long as you know, you're doingmore today than you did
yesterday, the next week.
And I also wanted to commentyou had mentioned don't compare
yourself to others.
Compare to yourself, and Iattend a lot of YouTuber
conferences and that's thebiggest YouTubers all say the
same thing You're only trying tocompare.
You're trying to get betterperformance on this video versus
(40:50):
the last video.
It's not about the others, it'slooking at your own metrics and
trying to improve from there.
So I think we all need that formental health.
But it's also true, right, youcan't boil the ocean, as they
say.
So, dave, this has been great.
If people obviously ConstantContact Be A Marketer podcast,
(41:11):
you might have multiple URLs orpoints of contact, but if the
listener wants to reach out andlearn more about you, constant
Contact your podcast, whereshould we send them?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Of course, Constant Contact.
You can find more informationabout there.
You can find links to the Be AMarketer podcast in there.
It's a simple way to go to mywebsite.
I have links to the podcastthere as well.
Davesharescom and then, if youwant to connect with me on
social, I'd love to do that.
Linkedin is my primary socialchannel, so that's where I'm
focusing most of my activitythere.
So hit me up, let me know where.
(41:38):
How will you found me, andlet's connect there.
I'd love to do that and let'sconnect there.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I'd love to do that.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time, dave, and I hope that the
listener, if you're interested,you will reach out to Dave.
He's a great guy and, yeah, Imean this whole podcast came
because I reached out to him, soI hope you'll do the same and
gain the benefit of listening tohis advice.
Well, thank you once again,dave, and hopefully we much.
(42:08):
It's been a pleasure.
It's great chatting with you.
Thank you All right, that was afantastic interview.
Hopefully, after listening tothat, you have an idea of the
elements you need, from Dave'sperspective, to engage in this
digital marketing success cycle.
A lot of what he says.
Also, there are parallelthoughts that I have in digital
threads, my comprehensiveplaybook for digital first
marketing.
Go to neilschafercom slashdigital threads, amazon or just
do a search for digital threadswherever you buy books.
(42:28):
It is a very unique name so youshould be able to find it.
It is also available in ebook,audio paper and hardcover.
And hey, if you need helpcreating your own digital
marketing success cycle,obviously I highly recommend you
read digital threads, but ifyou need just a little bit more
help, I have a group coachingcommunity called Digital First.
Go to neilschafercom slashmembership for more information.
(42:49):
I also provide one-on-onefractional CMO services
consulting for you and or yourteam.
Go to neilschafercom slash CMOfor more information on that.
But if you get enough just fromlistening to this podcast, hey,
how about if you had a fewminutes and you really got a lot
of value?
I'd really appreciate it, andit would really help this
(43:10):
podcast get exposed to newlisteners If you were to share a
quick review.
Give it a five-star ranking andgive a quick review.
On whatever platform you listento this podcast, make sure you
take a screenshot and send it tome so that I can send you a
special gift, alrighty.
Well, that's it for anotherepisode of the your Digital
Marketing Coach podcast.
This is Neil Schafer signingoff.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
You've been listening to your Digital Marketing Coach
.
Questions, comments, requests,links go to
podcastneilschafercom.
Get the show notes to this and200 plus podcast episodes at
neilschafercom to tap into the400 plus blog posts that Neil
has published to support yourbusiness.
(43:51):
While you're there, check outNeil's digital first group
coaching membership community Ifyou or your business needs a
little helping hand.
See you next time on yourdigital marketing coach.
Word of mouth is the secret weapon of small business
marketing, yet so manybusinesses overlook its power.
In this episode, I sit downwith Dave Charest, director of
Small Business Success atConstant Contact, to break down
the digital marketing successcycle and why word of mouth
marketing should be your toppriority.
We'll discuss practical stepsto maximize your marketing
(00:22):
efforts, automate engagement andcreate strategies that truly
drive business growth.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
If you're a small business owner looking for
simple yet effective ways tostand out, this is the episode
for you, so stay tuned to thenext episode of the your Digital
Marketing Coach podcast digitalsocial media content,
influencer marketing, blogging,podcasting, blogging, tiktoking,
linkedin, twitter, facebook,instagram, youtube, seo, sem,
(00:51):
ppc, email marketing Whew,there's a lot to cover.
Whether you're a marketingprofessional, entrepreneur or
business owner, you need someoneyou can rely on for expert
advice.
Good thing you've got Neil onyour side, because Neil Schaefer
is your digital marketing coach, helping you grow your business
(01:17):
with digital first marketing,one episode at a time.
This is your digital marketingcoach and this is Neil Schaefer.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey everybody, this is Neil Schaefer.
Welcome to episode number themagical 399 of this podcast.
I am, of course, your digitalmarketing coach, neil Schaefer
man.
You know episode number 299,looking back was on January 6th
2023.
So well, taking me a little bitover two years to get 100 more
(01:51):
in the bank, but you know I'mglad I'm back to a consistent
schedule of 50 episodes a year.
I fell behind a little bit lastyear but playing catch up this
year.
If you can see that from thefrequency that I've been
publishing and I am just happieras ever, digging in to these
interviews, my solo episodes,sharing video clips on the
socials, publishing LinkedInnewsletters, getting your
(02:12):
feedback, engaging with you I amreally committed to the long
haul for this podcast.
So I ain't going anywhere and Ihope you're not going anywhere.
You can ensure you don't goanywhere by simply hitting that
subscribe button so that youknow whether you're a corporate
marketer, you're a businessowner, an entrepreneur, you work
at a startup, you're a contentcreator, service provider.
I try to give a little bit ofdigital marketing medicine to
(02:37):
all of you.
So today, as always, right thetitle, the teaser we talk about
small business, but what I teachyou is applicable.
Really, even if you are a bigbusiness, you should be using
these concepts, because if asmall business can do it, big
business should be able to scaleit right.
But, as you know, smallbusiness marketing is tough.
I'm a small business, yes, eventhough I'm an expert.
(02:59):
It ain't easy right, especiallywhen you're competing against
bigger brands, bigger entitieswith bigger budgets.
But the good news you don'tneed a massive budget to see
results, you just need the rightstrategy.
That's pretty much my DNA.
It's also the DNA of my guest,dave Charest, director of small
business success at ConstantContact, who I had a chance to
(03:21):
see on stage in Los Angeles atthe Small Business Expo.
I want to say this was back inOctober of 2024, but I saw him
on stage.
I went up to him.
I gave him a copy of DigitalThreads.
He also said he was a podcaster.
I'm like Dave, I got to get youon my show.
I got to get you to share yourwisdom with my audience.
So here we are.
So we discuss what he calls thedigital marketing success cycle
(03:43):
and how, especially smallbusinesses can maximize their
efforts.
Dave is going to share somevaluable insights on the power
of word of mouth marketing, theimportance of email in building
lasting relationships constantcontact after all, is an email
marketing platform the veryfirst one that I subscribed to,
actually and how automation cansave time while keeping your
business top of mind.
(04:03):
If you're looking for a smarter, more strategic way to grow
your brand, this conversation ispacked with practical tips to
help you succeed.
So let's move on to theinterview.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
You're listening to your Digital Marketing Coach.
This is Neil Schaefer.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Hey everybody, this is Neil Schaefer, and welcome to
another edition of the yourDigital Marketing Coach podcast.
I've been trying to spend timewhenever there is a convention
or a show in town aroundmarketing.
I do my best to try to get tothese and just to keep my finger
on the pulse of what'shappening in the industry
network.
Often there's technologyvendors there that I can engage
with, find out about theirlatest technology.
(04:43):
Vendors there that I can engagewith, find out about their
latest offerings.
So recently I had a chance,because I'm located in the
greater Los Angeles metropolitanarea, to visit the Small
Business Expo.
And, lo and behold, when I wassitting there looking at what
are the presentations I shouldwatch, I saw a very, very
interesting one on smallbusiness marketing.
(05:04):
A lot of talk about smallbusiness, email marketing,
social media marketing.
I'm like this is exactly downmy digital threads alley, for
those of you that know my book.
So I went in and, lo and behold,today's guest was actually the
keynote speaker at that day,speaking in front of hundreds of
people.
His name is Dave Sharest.
He is the director of smallbusiness success at Constant
(05:26):
Contact, one of the leadingemail marketing software
providers.
Constant Contact is actuallythe very, very first email
marketing software that I used,and now that they've added tons
of automations and I love theuser interface, I'm looking at
maybe going back to them.
I'll have to talk to today'sguest about that but his
presentation was so compellingand it was really, really
focused on that small businessmarketing audience, and I've
(05:49):
felt the same way.
I've seen speeches about socialmedia marketing or digital
marketing, where they bring upall these really, really big
brands as case studies.
But of course, these big brandscan do those things because
they have big budgets, they haveloads of people.
Us small businesses don't havethat, and that's why Dave's
speech really resonated with me.
The minute he finished, I wentup to him and I'm like Dave,
(06:12):
will you please come on mypodcast, because I think that
his message needs to be heard bya lot more people.
So, without further ado, whatmore can I say?
But I'm really excited abouttoday's interview.
Dave Charest, welcome to theyour Digital Marketing Coach
podcast, my friend.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Hey, Neil, Thanks so much for having me.
You know it was funny when youcame up to afterwards and we
were chatting a little bit and Iwas like, oh, I know you, I
think we've.
You know, like ships in thenight, have crossed paths over
the years but never actually hada chance to meet.
So it was an absolute pleasureto actually get to see you in
person.
And thank you so much forinviting me on the podcast today
.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh, the honor is mine , my friend, really excited to
dig into today's topic.
But before we start, you know,director of small business
success, you are also and Ishould have mentioned host of
the Be A Marketer podcast.
So you are firmly in podcasting, marketing, email marketing.
But where did this all start?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know, even before Constant Contact what was your
initial journey into marketing?
Yeah, great question.
So my journey into this all Imean I think I started it's
probably like 2006 is when Ikind of got the ball rolling
here around that time and I hadbeen living in New York.
I have a background in theater,so I went to school for theater
and I had a job that I had beenworking at while I was in
(07:27):
school to help pay for thingsand all of that, of course, and
I ended up kind of moving up inthe ranks in there and I was
doing insurance billing and itwas one of those things that I
was like how the hell did I endup here right, that's a story of
a hill.
My friend Right, right, myfriend Right, right, I'm like
what.
And so I ended up being at aplace where I just wasn't happy
(07:47):
at the job anymore and I haddone a really good job of kind
of compartmentalizing.
But it got to the point where Iwas.
You know, sunday night wouldroll around and I was starting
to feel sick to my stomachbecause I was like, oh, monday I
got to go in and I got to dothis thing and my wife and I
started talking and it was atthis time where I really started
to get interested and excitedabout what was happening in the
(08:07):
online space right, just interms of social media and
marketing and the ways you couldconnect with people and so I
started really going down a pathof learning a lot about that.
I was kind of just teachingmyself this stuff and I said to
my wife I was like you know, Ican't do this thing anymore with
the insurance building.
I need to move on to somethingelse.
And we thought it'd be a greatidea if I started my own
(08:30):
business.
I laugh at that because I hadtwo little kids at the time and
my wife had the opportunity towork, so it just worked out
where I was able to kind of getsomething going.
I lined up some clients and Ireally started to implement all
of these things.
Now, what I learned during thiswas that man, did I suck at
running a business?
Really good at the marketingpieces, really could understand
that was really good atexplaining it.
I was doing a lot of work withdifferent theater companies and
(08:52):
things like that and helpingthem with their marketing, and
it got to a point where I waslike, okay, this doesn't make
sense, we were going to moveback to.
I'm from the Massachusetts areaoriginally.
I was going to move back hereand at that time I had a friend
of mine on Facebook, funnilyenough who.
I was like, oh, this personworks for Constant Contact.
(09:14):
And I was like, well, thatwould be interesting.
I wonder if they've gotanything available.
Because I was looking for, I waslooking to transition into like
an actual job, right, and therewas this opening for a content
developer, right, this wassomebody.
And it was like the jobdescription read like dear Dave,
do you do these things?
And I was like reading thisthing and I was like, yeah, yeah
, I do, I do do those things.
Because I was heavily into thecontent pieces of things and how
(09:36):
that all works.
And so I reached out to myfriend long story to spoke with
the hiring manager.
We had like this 15-minuteconversation hit it off right
away because I had a lot ofthings I was excited to start to
implement.
And I was like, oh, constantcontact got a big audience, it'd
be great to do that.
And 15-minute conversation gotoff the phone.
I said to my wife I'm like I'mdefinitely going to get that job
(09:58):
.
And within two weeks we weremoved back to Massachusetts.
I was starting at ConstantContact.
My kids enrolled in school andhere we are 13 years later and
moved up the ranks there fromcontent developer to manager of
content and social.
I was director of contentmarketing for a while and now
into this role here, where I'mmore forward-facing just in
(10:19):
terms of representing thecompany at events and hosting
the podcast and those types ofthings.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love the unique stories thateveryone brings to this field of
marketing.
You know, starting your theaterexperience Now I'm like, okay,
you look very comfortable onstage, so I get it now right,
but start also being a smallbusiness owner yourself and
understanding the challenges.
I think that's really criticalto the job that you do.
So, you know, congratulationson the journey.
(10:46):
So today, fast forward.
We're going to be talking aboutthis digital marketing success
lifecycle for SMB smallbusinesses and I think one of
the first things when we talkedabout this beforehand was
focusing your marketing effortsto increase word of mouth.
And you know, as I said, whenyou gave your presentation, I
(11:07):
was like nodding.
I think my neck I was soreafter that, but, but there were
so many awesome takeaways.
And just this importance ofword of mouth, you know,
especially for small businessesthat are trying to get their
name out there, it's somethingthat you know people don't talk
about.
They, they go off to the nextshiny object.
You know, tiktok, sexy orwhatever.
It is right.
So let's sort of dumb it down alittle bit and start with that
(11:29):
importance of word mouthmarketing.
And then what are the thingsthat we can do to try to get
more of for our business.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, time and time again.
So I'm very fortunate to beable to talk to small businesses
all the time, and we dointernal panels at Constant
Contact and, obviously, throughthe podcast I've been talking to
them and at events like theones where we met.
And time and time again, whenwe ask where do you get most of
your business, it's word ofmouth is typically the answer.
(11:55):
And, of course, as you know,word of mouth now extends into
this online space and thereality is, if you break down
marketing into its corecomponent, it's about
communicating with the peoplethat are, you know, have
interest in the product orservice that you offer.
And it's really about justkeeping your business top of
(12:16):
mind so that when you know, theyknow what you do and so that
when they're ready for thatthing, or if somebody says, hey,
you know somebody that doessuch and such, they're going to
think of you first.
You're just trying to shortcircuit that piece of thought,
right, because the reality islike we're looking for those
shortcuts, right?
When somebody asks us somethingoh, what's the answer?
(12:37):
What's the answer?
And I'm going to think of thething that comes to mind first.
And so, ultimately, that's whatwe're trying to do, and and so,
ultimately, that's what we'retrying to do, and in that online
space now it's really about howdo you just be part of more of
those conversations, right?
So how are you there?
How do you show up so thatyou've got more opportunities to
bring people into your sphereand so you have more people to
(12:57):
influence and, hopefully, get todo business with you?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And would you say then, and sort of fast forward
over that definition of thedigital marketing success cycle.
But would you say, this is sortof that.
First step is you already havea business.
Easiest thing you can start todo is incite that word of mouth.
Is that like the base, wouldyou say, or did we fast forward?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think so.
So I think, if we're looking atthe cycle itself, it's really
about taking three specificactions, right?
And I think the ultimate core ofit is knowing that, like we
were applying this to marketing,because I think it really works
for anything as you think aboutwhat you're doing, but the idea
is to review what you're doing,make a plan based on what
you've learned through thatreview and then actually put
(13:39):
time on the calendar, executeagainst that plan.
So these are the three thingsthat we see that I've seen
business owners do time and timeagain to start to make success
go for them from a marketingperspective and just from a
growth perspective for theirbusiness.
Right, they are constantlygoing back to say, okay, here's
what's happening, here are theadjustments that I need to make,
so here's the plan I'm going toput together for that, and then
(14:00):
I'm actually going to put timein the calendar.
So I actually do those things.
I mean, I'm sure you'veexperienced this as well, but
you go to these events you know,I just finished speaking at the
Guru Conference, for exampleand you get all of these great
ideas and you have these thingsthat you want to do, and then
you go home and you forget allabout them, right, and so you
really do need to do this kindof triumvirate of things right
(14:20):
To be able to really take actionand make progress, and it's
often that it's progress overperfection.
It's about moving forward,learning and then taking the
next steps.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think that you
know, beginning with the word ofmouth and I attest to it myself
.
It's funny, dave.
You know I'm a fractional CMO.
So the minute you put thattitle on LinkedIn, you have all
these people saying, well, weoffer services to help
fractional CMOs get new clients.
All these people reaching out,but at the end of the day, the
clients really come from likeknow and trust, and overwhelming
(14:52):
majority of that is from wordof mouth.
It's something that we allintuitively understand.
It's hard to measure and it'shard to implement.
But I'm curious do you have anytactics for those that are
listening, things that you'veseen that companies have done?
Obviously, being top of mindmeans being where people are,
(15:12):
and we know that's social media,we know that's email, we know
that people search forinformation Now we got AI that
people are searching as well.
But any sort of tactical adviceyou might give the listeners on
how to potentially increasethat word of mouth?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah.
So how we look at it atConstant Contact is through this
lens of what we call engagementmarketing, and the idea is
basically wherever you have aninteraction with a potential
customer this could be online,this could be at the store, this
could be whatever it is thatthey're visiting your website
they get a flyer in the mail youreally want to look for ways to
provide a great experience forthose people.
(15:45):
We call them wow experiences,right, and that wow doesn't have
to be anything complex.
It's really just about thinkingof something in relation to
your business that you do.
That might be a little bitdifferent, right, and sometimes
that could be as simple.
As you know, somebody walksinto the store and somebody's
there to say hello.
Right, it's like these simplethings, because oftentimes
people aren't thinking aboutthese things, and if you can do
(16:09):
something that makes somebodyfeel good about the interaction
that they've had with you,that's obviously something that
people will talk about.
We know people talk about thingsthat they really enjoy, and
they also talk about things thatthey don't enjoy, right,
probably more so, but whenthey're having that great
experience with you, it's agreat opportunity to entice them
to stay connected with you,right, that could mean following
you on social, giving you anemail or a mobile number,
(16:30):
something like that, that allowsyou to stay connected, and then
it's putting a plan in place toengage with those people, to
stay in touch, whether that's inthe inbox, on the phone,
wherever it may be to.
Again, now you have thisopportunity to stay more top of
mind, and again, that's whenpeople, when they think of you,
(16:50):
when they need you or they knowof something that you're
offering that brings more peopleto your door the social
visibility piece starts tohappen when you're doing these
engagements online, right Ofcourse, and so you start looking
at people engaging with thethings that you're doing online
or you're interacting withcustomers.
That gets you in front of otherpeople that are connected to
them, which can bring morepeople to the door, and that's
(17:11):
kind of the cycle that we gothrough.
That that's how we explain itLike.
This is ultimately what we'retrying to do and try to put into
place for our businesses, andif we can just keep feeding that
, we're going to see thatcontinually bring things back to
our business.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So you know, feeding that we're going to see that
continually bring things back toour business.
So the important thing there isthis focus right of your
marketing and it almost soundslike you're recommending does
your current marketing, when youlook at it from the lens of
generating word of mouth does itgenerate word of mouth or does
it not?
And let that be the way toguide you in what you should be
investing in doing.
Is that sort of a correctassumption?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I think it's that and it's looking at.
Then, now you've got thesetools available to you, right?
So how do you use those toolsto help you take advantage of
that right and do that?
And what do those tools need todo?
Because they've each got adifferent purpose and they all.
I think it's important to note,too, that these all work
together right.
It's not about doing one thingright, and I think that's the
(18:05):
sometimes the misnomer right?
Everyone's always looking forthe silver bullet, if you will,
right, what's the thing that'sgoing to?
You know, push you over theedge, right?
And sometimes you get to apoint where something breaks and
then it feels like, oh, that'sthe thing that is the breaking
point, but the reality is thatonly happened because of all of
(18:27):
the things cumulatively comingtogether to make that happen,
right.
I mean, you've been doing thisfor a long time, neil, right.
Like building up and getting tothis place wasn't just one
action.
It's a bunch of actions thatyou've taken over the years to
get here right, and so I thinkthat's the important thing to
think about here too.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, and I think you know, as a small business owner
, I'm just reflecting on my ownrecent marketing.
You know, coming out with a newbook, there are so many
different channels, but Iimmediately go to Amazon because
If you want to increase salesfor a book, you need word of
mouth.
You're not going to get word ofmouth unless you get that book
into the hands of people.
This is why I'm investing indoing Goodreads giveaways or
Amazon ads, because if I cansell even if I can sell at a
(19:04):
loss and get that book, I canmake it back in.
The word of mouth is sort ofthe mindset there.
So I've been influenced by yourpresentation as well and I
think if everyone had that, whatwill generate that?
And I think if everyone hadthat, what will generate that?
And in digital threads, I have aseparate chapter on
user-generated content.
I know this gets maybe a littlebit advanced for the average
small business owner, but howInstagrammable can you make your
(19:26):
customer experience?
I think you also touched uponsome of that as well.
So these are the things I thinkabout that hopefully everyone
in the audience should bethinking about as well.
So we now have this strategy ofthis focus on word of mouth,
marketing.
You mentioned that there aretwo questions that you need to
ask yourself to support yourgoals in terms of this whole.
You know cycle and I'm a bigfan of the word.
(19:46):
You know the term flywheel.
I almost feel like once you'rein the cycle, it becomes its own
flywheel, sort of generates itsown success.
But you know what are these twoquestions and how are they
going to help us, you know, getgoing on this cycle.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think the thing to recognizeis that oftentimes, people are
asking or people are giving eventhe wrong advice, right,
sometimes, because what happensis we all have access to the
same tools.
How we use them is really basedon what it is that we're trying
to do, and I think that's thepiece that's often missing from
(20:19):
the equation.
Someone will say, oh, you gotto get on Instagram, you got to
do this.
Well, why do I have to do that,right?
Yeah, exactly, you don't knowwhat I'm trying to do.
How about you ask that questionfirst and then tell me, right,
and so I think you got to startthere, right?
Because if you are, you know,trying to open a new store
versus trying to run an event,the things that you need to do
(20:40):
and how you use those tools tosupport you are going to be very
different, and these thingschange all the time.
Again, the importance ofreviewing and then putting a
plan in place and then executingthe plan, because you're going
to be continually shifting basedon new milestones that you're
reaching, shifting based on, youknow, new milestones that
you're reaching, and so thequestions are really, I think,
(21:01):
when you start looking at, okay,if you're reviewing what you're
doing from a marketingperspective.
You know what you're trying todo.
What are the?
Are there things that you mayneed to implement?
Am I missing something?
Right?
We?
Often my presentation focuses onmaking sure you have a website,
of course, so people canconfirm that you're a business
that they want to work with.
Right, people are still goingto go there to do that.
Having those social channels inplace so that you are
connecting and engaging withpeople, because people will also
(21:22):
be looking there.
But then, also, making sure youhave an email or text marketing
, because you own thatrelationship and you have a way
to contact people.
And so, as you look at that,okay, are there tools I might be
missing?
Right?
Sure, there are other thingsyou may need to do, but, you
know, focused on, you know, yourparticular goal at that moment.
Are there things I need toimplement?
The other question I think isare there things that I can
(21:43):
improve?
Okay, so here's what I am doing.
Okay, based on some things I'mhearing, since I think there are
some fundamental things thatyou need to put in place,
regardless of your goals.
Right, like, making sure you'reasking people to join your
email list.
Right, pointing people fromsocial to that, bringing people
closer, doing that on yourwebsite, doing that when you're
at events, doing all of thosethings so that when you are
(22:06):
doing specific things andmarketing things, you have more
people to go to to be able tohopefully influence.
And so those are the two bigquestions I think you need to
look at, because those point youin a direction of like okay,
I'm doing this, but I have to do, I have to make some changes,
add something or improve onsomething to help me get to that
next level.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, you know that very first topic of you know you
got to do Instagram.
I recently had a chat with oneof my fractional CMO clients and
they were just focusing onInstagram followers.
And so what is?
What is the ROI of the follower?
Now, if we talk aboutimpressions or engagements and
as an indicator of word of mouth, you're not going to get
engagements unless you getvisibility.
And with the way the algorithmswork, it's not necessarily
(22:45):
about followers, right, and thateven leads to.
Well, you're spending 50% ofyour time on stories versus
reels.
Is that a good bet?
So, just taking a step backevery once in a while I like to
do these on a quarterly basismyself of just really looking at
your activities and are theyaligned with this.
You know this digital marketingsuccess cycle that we began to
talk about, so I sort of want toget back to that, because we
(23:06):
talked a lot about that, thatword of mouth, that that should
be the focus.
To begin things.
What are some of the othercomponents of that cycle that we
haven't talked about?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So, when we get into the review plan, execute, so
review.
Of course, we're checking in onwhat we're doing and how that's
working for us the planningpiece.
I think there are some thingshere that I think are important
for folks to focus on.
I mentioned making sure thatwe're collecting email addresses
right.
We're getting contactinformation in terms of mobile
numbers, those types of things.
I think the other thing toreally think about is you know,
(23:39):
are there ways that you can thenuse those tools to engage with
people right At key moments?
And I'm thinking of putting inplace like simple automations.
For example, right whensomebody joins your list, you
have an email that goes out tothem, that welcomes them and
maybe delivers on the thing thatyou entice them to sign up with
?
Right, are you using?
Are you using the thing thatyou entice them to sign up with?
Right, are you using the datathat you have?
(24:00):
Do you have a birthday,something like a birth date,
that you can then send anautomated happy birthday right,
like little simple things?
Are there things like ananniversary email?
Do you have like a time wheremaybe somebody joined your list
or maybe they first bought theirfirst product with you?
All of these reasons and I wantto call them excuses in many
ways to connect right.
(24:22):
In a way, that's a little offthe path, right, but you can set
these up and they work for youall the time.
I think it's also understandingyou know when is the right time
to use a text message, let'ssay, versus an email, and
oftentimes, you know, I thinkthat boils down to thinking
through a couple of questionsthat you want to ask yourself.
Right, because text messagingis interesting, because when
somebody sends you one, you'regoing to look at your phone
right away.
And again, as long as peopleare expressed interest in
(24:42):
receiving that type of stuff,you really want to ask yourself
well, is the thing that I'msending, is it timely?
Is it going to be of interestto the person receiving it?
Does it feel personal?
Is it conversational?
Right, because we always wantwhat we're doing from a
marketing perspective to matchthe nature of the channel, right
, so we're using it in that wayand we're leaning into the
strength of that channel.
I think it's also important tostart thinking through specific
(25:03):
things.
You can do so from an emailperspective.
Really, at the very least,think about including two types
of emails in your strategy,right?
Promotional emails andnon-promotional emails.
That means, yeah, promotionalemails, of course, as you might
imagine, are things that havesome type of sale or discount or
some type of time sensitivityto them.
But then those non-promotionalemails are really things that
(25:24):
are designed to engage, educate,right, to add value to the
relationship.
So people get to know you, youstart to build those
relationships.
We want to use those two thingsbecause you don't want to be
saying buy this, buy this, buythis, buy this all the time.
Right, there is thatrelationship piece that comes
into play here, and so those twokind of help you stay top of
mind.
Again, there's that word, right, stay top of mind.
(25:45):
So when people are thinking of,or ready for they're going to
think of, your business first,and so you know, those are just
a few things that you can reallystart to think about.
I think it's also important tolook at the social channels that
you're using.
Oftentimes we see people makethe mistake of and to social
media's credit, right, I'm justusing the general term here, of
course, but we do a really goodjob of they do a really good job
(26:08):
of making you feel like you'remissing out on something if
you're not participating on them.
Right and to your point,looking at the metrics and
things like that, they also do areally good job of giving you a
lot of metrics that may or maynot be important to you, right?
But it makes it feel like you'redoing something right, and so
it's really about finding thechannel that makes sense.
On people who say, well, whereare your customers?
(26:30):
I think, yes, that's acomponent of it, but the other
piece of it is where do you feelcomfortable to, as a person,
doing the marketing right, asthe business?
And so you have to find wherethose start to overlap so that
you can focus on one channel,figure out how that works best
for your business and getsomething from that.
Start to see the value that isbringing to you before you add
(26:53):
another channel, becauseoftentimes I've seen too many
people kind of take the cut andpaste kind of mentality to it
and that might be fine.
Again, I don't know what yourgoal is, right.
So if your goal is just to beeverywhere, that's perfectly
acceptable.
But if your goal is to actuallyyou know, maybe get some more
engagement or have somebody dosomething, you may want to take
a different tact to it, right,and so it's about leaning in,
(27:16):
learning what works and thenadding something to that so you
don't end up just spinning yourwheels and getting frustrated,
because I find we oftenover-index on social Amen, amen.
I don't really know why that is.
I think it's part of the humanelement of it, right, and those
things that the dopamine hitsand things like that.
But we overemphasize there andif we just use that in a strong
(27:40):
way but then shifted some ofthat energy to a tool like email
or SMS, for example, that mayend up changing your business in
ways you didn't think it wouldright.
So time and time again, when wetalk to folks, it's about what
makes them successful.
They're like oh, I do a weeklynewsletter, right, I've been
doing it since this time, foryears, and we've talked to
(28:01):
people that I can think of oneof our real estate agent
customers who, I think since2007,.
He's been sending a whiteweekly email.
He's built this list up.
He just shares his thoughts onthe market.
He doesn't prospect for clientsanymore and he closes a hundred
deals a year just because hesends this email.
Right, and he's got people onthis list and he's the first
person that they think of.
(28:22):
Right, because somebody in theleadership space who similar
weekly email sends some tips andthings like that, but also
includes she sells things thatyou can use in your leadership
trainings and all that, and ofcourse, she does courses and all
that, but similar, she sends aweekly email, has a deal in
(28:42):
there.
Every Wednesday is a good salesday on her website.
Right, it's doing those typesof things, it's showing up
consistently, it's being thereand just it's that consistency.
I think that's the big word inmarketing as well.
Right, just making sure thatyou're doing those things that
allow you to be thereconsistently, because when
people you never know whensomeone's going to be ready, but
(29:02):
they're going to rememberbecause you're always there and
they're going to come to youfirst.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, now I'm remembering why I really loved
your speech, because what youpreach and what I've been
talking about are very muchaligned.
So this success cycle is plan,do check, act.
And this is exactly PDCA.
Professor Edwards Deming, thisis a framework that I talk about
and I think it's veryappropriate for marketing.
Treat it as an experiment, butyou need to plan, do check and
(29:24):
act upon that.
And the other one is and I wrotein Digital Threads because I
believe that there's three maindigital channels you have search
, email, social, and the onechannel that people put too much
weight on definitely is thesocial and the least on email.
So I love the fact that youbrought up the email, because
the social becomes this hamsterwheel of content creation that
you know once a week, twice aweek, three, three times a week.
(29:45):
Now I got stories, oh, I got tobe authentic.
Oh, I got to use the latest.
You know filters and it couldreally be a time suck, for it is
important.
But you know that email,especially when you set up those
automations, you set it up onceand you forget about it, and
it's constantly engaging yourbehalf in a channel that you own
right, which is email versussocial, where you hope your
followers will see your content,and we know that that's a game
(30:08):
of diminishing returns.
So, yeah, I couldn't agree moreand I hope that, if there's one
thing and obviously yourepresent Constant Contact, but
even if you didn't and I don'trepresent any of these companies
email definitely is that pieceand I'm sort of excited.
So I actually am launching aShopify store for the first time
for my books and I'm going toput my consulting services on
(30:30):
there as well.
And obviously, when we talkabout e-commerce, klaviyo is
this company that is reallydeeply embedded in Shopify and
all my clients use them.
So, for the first time, it'slike, hey, and it does raise
that question that you broughtup.
Well, I added it, but how wouldI use it?
And if we have that samementality with social media,
like, how are we going to usethis?
What conversations are we goingto have?
And we do it with intent.
(30:50):
Like you said, promotionalcontent, advertisements do not
generate word of mouth.
What sort of content mightgenerate word of mouth?
So it's the same concept.
And also another thing youbrought up is that relationship
building same concept, and alsoanother thing you brought up is
that you know that relationshipbuilding.
So in digital threads I havethis, you know, funnel of, of
digital relationships, of howyou you bring relationships in a
(31:13):
similar funnel, and email isjust critical.
You know checking in on aregular basis when you do them
right.
So I hope you know one of thetakeaways is the importance of
email as being centered all this.
But another one is thatintentional, you know, creation
of content that is focused onthat word of mouth and also that
relationship building andputting everything you do
through that lens.
So these are really greatreminders for everyone listening
.
But we're not done yet.
Dave, you mentioned that thereare some productivity tips,
(31:36):
because obviously this is a lot,I think, like any other, when
we talk about like the flywheel,once you get this going it
becomes like muscle memory, butuntil you get this going, it
becomes like muscle memory, butuntil you get it going, it
sounds like a lot of work.
It might be a lot of work, butyou promised that there are ways
of staying productive in theprocess, so I'd love if you
could give that advice to ouraudience.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think there are a coupleof things there.
One, of course, is, as you'regoing through this process and
you're getting to this placewhere, okay, you understand what
it is you're trying to do, youhave your goals, you know how
you're going to use some ofthese tools.
It's really the number onething, time and time again, I
hear from people who aresuccessful with this marketing
stuff is they put time in thecalendar to do the work, whether
(32:16):
that's a half an hour, whetherit's an hour, and my goal is
always to all right, how are yougoing to use that time?
Right?
So we're trying to give you thetips to like lean into, like,
all right, here's how I'm goingto do this thing, and it's by
putting that time in first andforemost.
So it's looking at what you'redoing.
Maybe there are multiple thingsthat you need to do.
(32:36):
I think it's about prioritizingthat work.
So I often recommend to peopleokay, circle three things of on
the list of things that you needto do from a marketing
perspective.
Circle those three things, cool.
Now pick one of them what'smost important to you right now,
and then schedule the time, putthat in the calendar.
So then you're working towardsthat, then you can move to the
next thing.
I think it's very easy to feeloverwhelmed by everything,
(32:58):
because there are a lot ofthings coming at us, and if we
think about a small businessowner who's, you know, not just
doing marketing and I think thisis an important point to bring
up too, because I think there'sa couple of different types of
businesses right, it's very easyfor you and I to talk about
what we're doing on social,because part of our role and our
job is to be on social.
Indeed, you also havebusinesses that aren't building
(33:21):
themselves on social as much asthey're using social to
accentuate what they're doing,and I think there's a different
cadence, there's a different wayto approach that, right?
So, like, someone buildingtheir business online may need
to be online more than someonewho's just kind of using that to
help, you know again, get theword out about their business a
(33:42):
little bit more.
And so I say that because it'svery easy to compare yourself
when you're looking at things onsocial and be like wow, look at
all the engagement that'shappening over there, or look at
all the followers this personhas, and I feel like those
things aren't as important,depending on the nature of your
business right.
You really want to stay focusedon what it is that you're doing
, the people that you're serving, and what impact the things
(34:04):
that you're doing are having onyour particular business, and so
try not to fall into that trapof using a social to compare
right, compare against yourself,set benchmarks and goals for
yourself and work towards those.
The other thing I think isimportant is to really think
about.
You know most of the tools thatyou're using today are
(34:25):
integrated with other tools thatyou're using in many ways.
You know so, if I look atConstant Contact, for example,
we are integrated with toolslike you mentioned, shopify,
right.
Canva is another big one thateverybody is using right, like
those tools specifically.
So let's go to Shopify.
If you can integrate that withyour constant contact account, a
(34:46):
couple of things are going tohappen.
You're going to get yourcontacts that are, you know,
shopping with you are going tocome in.
Some automated lists are goingto be created for you so you can
see people who are first-timebuyers versus you know multiple
purchases or haven't boughtanything.
You start to get data that isimportant to you, but, above
that, as you start to createemails, you're also going to be
(35:06):
connected to your store, and soyou don't have to go through
this process of like oh, I wantto talk about widget X.
Well, I don't have to create animage for widget X and then
write the description and thenyou know, load all that stuff
into my constant contact account.
It's already there.
All you're doing is justdragging a block into your email
.
That then pulls up all thatinformation that you can then
edit if you want to right.
(35:27):
So, again, that's saving youvaluable time that you know
you'd be spending doing thatwhen you could be doing other
things.
I think most tools today havesome type of AI component
available to them.
I think those are important toexperiment with and to play with
to see how that can help you.
So you know, for example,constant contact can help write
(35:48):
your email, copy your, yoursocial media, copy your, your
text messages.
It can build from an email tohelp you summarize that email to
share out if you wanted to dosomething like that.
Again, these are all ways,particularly if you're not a
marketing brain, and it's notright for everybody, right?
Some people, that's the piecethat they are good at, and so
they're going to lean into that,but other people, it's not the
(36:09):
thing that they're good at, sothey need something to kind of
start from right, and these areall things that help make that
process a little easier.
You know, one of the things I'mmost excited about in terms of
constant contact and helpingfolks in this area Because it's
often, yeah, how do you puttogether the strategy?
What am I supposed to do?
How do all these tools worktogether?
We have this tool that justcame out recently called
Campaign Builder, where youactually let it know what you're
(36:30):
trying to do and then it buildsa plan for you, including the
thinking behind it in terms of,like social, maybe you want to
include an event in there, butemail text and it gives you the
timings and when all of thosethings are supposed to happen.
So you can then say, okay, yeah, I want to do this, I can
schedule that, I can schedulethat, make adjustments that I
(36:51):
need to, but then you've gotyour multi-channel campaign in
place, because we talked aboutearlier how it's not really just
one thing.
You want to be in all of theseplaces, so people are seeing it
there, but, again, using thosetools in the right way, and so
these are all ways that reallyallow you to take a little bit
of time, investment to figurethe thing out right.
(37:11):
And what I like about ConstantContact it is designed for small
business owners who are not,you know, marketers by trade,
but rather necessity.
So it's pretty easy to kind ofget started and get going.
But it's all about settingthose things up, setting up the
automations, and then savingyourself time so you have things
that are working for you andthen you can build on them as
(37:32):
you find.
My hope is always you're goingto do something and you're going
to say, oh, wow, that works,what else can I do?
Right, but oftentimes we startto try to do everything and then
nothing is really working andwe get dissuaded from even
wanting to invest there again,and I think that ultimately is
to the detriment of the business.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, a lot of important takeaways there.
I want to focus on a few.
Technology is this thing thatyou might have invested in
something, but is it going thedirection you want it to go?
So I always recommend atechnology audit and I know if
you're a small business owner.
This is a lot, but like once ayear, you know, because it's
(38:12):
human nature Once you get usedto using something you continue
to use it.
But that case in point, right.
So I have a WordPress site.
I've always used just thegeneral newsletter.
You know email marketingsoftware.
I don't need to name the name,it's not important for the
conversation.
But then I got the Shopifystore going, and immediately,
because my developer is familiarwith Klaviyo.
And then boom, right.
But now I'm going to have twoseparate email lists, whereas if
I had originally used ConstantContact because you already have
(38:34):
that Shopify functionalityintegration I can then use, I
can get the best of both worlds.
But I'm not going to have that,at least at the beginning,
until I move constant contact.
So this is something where andyou know those AI features and,
yes, you can use ChatGPT.
But it's that productivity ofhaving it inside and I love that
campaign manager you talkedabout.
You know, this is my firstexperience with Shopify.
(38:55):
It's like it guides you throughthe whole process.
You need a shipping policy.
Oh, here's a template that youcan use.
We're not lawyers, but feelfree to use this as a starting
point.
And I love the fact that you'regiving small business owners a
starting point, because I thinkthat's critical.
And the other point I wanted tomake about productivity and I
have a dedicated chapter indigital threads is also
outsourcing.
As a small business owner, youdon't need to do all this right,
(39:16):
and if you want to do a searchon a Fiverr Upwork for constant
contact email campaign builder,I am sure those people are out
there.
So that's my other thing thatwe often forget about.
But, dave, this has been reallyawesome advice.
Is there anything, when we talkabout the digital marketing
success cycle for small business, anything that we left out of
the conversation today?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, I'll just add this that I think it's really
easy to feel overwhelmed becauseeverything is coming at you
very fast, everything ischanging very quickly and I
think it's okay to say take abreath.
The things are actually verysimplistic at the end of the day
.
And if you keep it simplistic,again, go through this motion,
review, plan, execute.
(39:56):
I'm just trying to keep mybusiness top of mind.
It feels more achievable whenyou can start to do that, and
that's ultimately where you needto be, because doing something
too much leads to inaction, andif you can right size it and
make progress towards something,you're going to be in a much
better position.
And I think that's theimportant message to take away
(40:17):
from all of this you can do it.
You don't have to do everything.
Do what's right for you, butunderstand how it works so that,
to your point, if you're hiringsomebody or doing something
like that, you know that they'regoing to be moving you in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, it is a marathon and not a sprint and so
long as you know, you're doingmore today than you did
yesterday, the next week.
And I also wanted to commentyou had mentioned don't compare
yourself to others.
Compare to yourself, and Iattend a lot of YouTuber
conferences and that's thebiggest YouTubers all say the
same thing You're only trying tocompare.
You're trying to get betterperformance on this video versus
(40:50):
the last video.
It's not about the others, it'slooking at your own metrics and
trying to improve from there.
So I think we all need that formental health.
But it's also true, right, youcan't boil the ocean, as they
say.
So, dave, this has been great.
If people obviously ConstantContact Be A Marketer podcast,
(41:11):
you might have multiple URLs orpoints of contact, but if the
listener wants to reach out andlearn more about you, constant
Contact your podcast, whereshould we send them?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Of course, Constant Contact.
You can find more informationabout there.
You can find links to the Be AMarketer podcast in there.
It's a simple way to go to mywebsite.
I have links to the podcastthere as well.
Davesharescom and then, if youwant to connect with me on
social, I'd love to do that.
Linkedin is my primary socialchannel, so that's where I'm
focusing most of my activitythere.
So hit me up, let me know where.
(41:38):
How will you found me, andlet's connect there.
I'd love to do that and let'sconnect there.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I'd love to do that.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time, dave, and I hope that the
listener, if you're interested,you will reach out to Dave.
He's a great guy and, yeah, Imean this whole podcast came
because I reached out to him, soI hope you'll do the same and
gain the benefit of listening tohis advice.
Well, thank you once again,dave, and hopefully we much.
(42:08):
It's been a pleasure.
It's great chatting with you.
Thank you All right, that was afantastic interview.
Hopefully, after listening tothat, you have an idea of the
elements you need, from Dave'sperspective, to engage in this
digital marketing success cycle.
A lot of what he says.
Also, there are parallelthoughts that I have in digital
threads, my comprehensiveplaybook for digital first
marketing.
Go to neilschafercom slashdigital threads, amazon or just
do a search for digital threadswherever you buy books.
(42:28):
It is a very unique name so youshould be able to find it.
It is also available in ebook,audio paper and hardcover.
And hey, if you need helpcreating your own digital
marketing success cycle,obviously I highly recommend you
read digital threads, but ifyou need just a little bit more
help, I have a group coachingcommunity called Digital First.
Go to neilschafercom slashmembership for more information.
(42:49):
I also provide one-on-onefractional CMO services
consulting for you and or yourteam.
Go to neilschafercom slash CMOfor more information on that.
But if you get enough just fromlistening to this podcast, hey,
how about if you had a fewminutes and you really got a lot
of value?
I'd really appreciate it, andit would really help this
(43:10):
podcast get exposed to newlisteners If you were to share a
quick review.
Give it a five-star ranking andgive a quick review.
On whatever platform you listento this podcast, make sure you
take a screenshot and send it tome so that I can send you a
special gift, alrighty.
Well, that's it for anotherepisode of the your Digital
Marketing Coach podcast.
This is Neil Schafer signingoff.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
You've been listening to your Digital Marketing Coach
.
Questions, comments, requests,links go to
podcastneilschafercom.
Get the show notes to this and200 plus podcast episodes at
neilschafercom to tap into the400 plus blog posts that Neil
has published to support yourbusiness.
(43:51):
While you're there, check outNeil's digital first group
coaching membership community Ifyou or your business needs a
little helping hand.
See you next time on yourdigital marketing coach.
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