May 30, 2025 • 51 mins
In this conversation, Dusty Porter and Nick Nimmin discuss the evolving landscape of YouTube and content creation, focusing on the impact of AI tools, the importance of audience engagement, and strategies for improving click-through rates and audience retention. They explore the rise of short-form content and live streaming, emphasizing the need for creators to adapt to new trends and technologies to remain competitive in the creator economy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, and welcome to this week's episodeof the YouTube at Creators Hub podcast.
(00:04):
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(00:27):
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(00:48):
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This week we are joined by afriend of mine, Nick Niman.
He comes on the show acouple of times a year.
We do a state of YouTube episodeat the end of each year, like
(01:11):
we've done for the past four years.
And the past couple of years.
I'd like to have him on onemore time to discuss what he's
seeing trend wise on YouTube.
So this one's a really good one.
So let's go ahead and jumpinto the conversation first.
I would tell them that click throughrate isn't just based on your thumbnail.
Your click through rate isbased on the topic of the video.
It's based on the timing of, when youpublish that video, not necessarily
(01:33):
Monday through Friday, eight to,10 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM Not that
timing, but timing in terms of whenpeople are the most interested in
that particular piece of content.
But basically it comesdown to the topic itself.
It comes down to the timing.
It comes down to the thumbnail'sability to grab the attention of
the people that you are trying to.
Reach so that they can quickly andeasily identify that your content's about
(01:53):
something that they might care about.
Hello and welcome to thisweek's conversation on the
YouTube Creator Hub podcast.
Dusty here, as always joinedby my friend Nick Niman.
So if you don't know, I have Nickand his brother Dee on the podcast
at the end of every year, and wedo a state of YouTube conversation.
Last year was over an.
Hour and 15 minutes long.
We've been doing these now fouryears running, and I mentioned last
(02:16):
year that I would like to have Nickand Dee both on separately a, as
a midyear check-in of kind of thetrends and things going on YouTube.
If you don't know who Nick is or whathe does, he's one of the best figures
and best content educators out there.
If you are a YouTube creator, you needto know and be subscribed to Nick Niman.
So if you don't know who heis, which you probably do go
(02:37):
subscribe to all of his stuff.
I'll have those links down below.
Nick, how you.
Doing today.
I am fantastic.
Dusty, as always, man.
Really excited to come on, have aconversation with you that's gonna
add value to creators in some way.
Always excited man tobe here on the podcast.
I'm doing awesome.
Thank you for for having me on.
So let's just dive into it.
What are, right now, midway through 2025,what are some of the trends that you're
(03:01):
seeing that are exciting you for creators?
'cause you do these live streams verylong form every weekend or every other
weekend, and critique and audit people'schannels and so you're really in the weeds
and you see all these questions coming in.
So what are some things that are excitingyou right now in the creator space?
Some things that I think are interesting,and I know this is gonna be a little bit
(03:23):
of a polarizing conversation 'cause somepeople are all in for this kind of stuff.
Other people don't wantanything to do with it.
But I think something that is interestingis that a lot of people are starting
to use AI to fill holes that they have.
And what I mean by that is.
When it comes to making thumbnails,we can just make a thumbnail and we
can put it up on YouTube and we canhope that it makes sense for the
(03:44):
people that we're trying to reach.
Or you can take an extra 30 seconds,you can drop that thumbnail into chat
GPT, and you can ask chat GPT to giveyou, any feedback on that thumbnail.
And it can help you point out thingsthat you might not be able to see,
especially if you're a new creator.
And I think that things like thisare really valuable when it comes to
writing titles, making thumbnails,coming up with a content strategy,
that sort of thing, because.
(04:06):
Especially if you're new.
But even for experiencedpeople, it's helpful.
But when you're new, you might not havethe feedback mechanisms in place, right?
You might not have any friends thathave enough experience to where they
can give you real valuable information.
You might not have a design background orwhere you can look at something and you
can be like, oh, I need to adjust this inorder to make this pop a little bit more.
(04:26):
And because of that you have thesetools that people are using to.
Make better thumbnails,write more effective titles.
And in some cases, I don't know ifyou've seen it, dusty but people
are also making things so wherethey're sketching out thumbnails.
There, it's just a, some, it looks likesomething that a kindergartner would make
(04:46):
in terms of the quality of the sketch.
And then they're uploading that intochat, GPT, and they're using chat GT's
new image feature to get a realistic,high quality looking thumbnail.
Now, in some cases, this takes a handfulof swings in terms of, you gotta try it
a few times in order to dial it all inwith your prompts and things like that.
But even the results that people aregetting out of that are absolutely
(05:07):
mind blowing and they, some ofthem can compete with, like super
high quality thumbnails on YouTube.
So one of the thingsthat I think is great.
Is that creators are leaning into thatsort of thing and it's helping fill some
holes that people might have in theirskill sets, or it's helping them be
able to see things that they just mightnot be able to see yet, because they
just haven't had the experience yet.
(05:29):
So I, I'm seeing a lot moreAI generated some nails.
Unfortunately when it comes to titles,because I see a lot of semicolons and
m dashes and things like that to whereit's a little bit obvious that, it
comes from chat GBT, but I don't knowif everybody recognizes that or not.
But in a lot of cases, even thosetitles are better than, the titles
that a lot of people would writewhen they're getting started.
(05:49):
And I keep making this reference togetting started because I mostly target
newer content creators with my content.
But basically when it comes towhat I'm seeing is I'm seeing that.
The barrier to entryis getting even lower.
'cause this is one of the thingswe always talk about, how it's
getting easier and easier.
But the barrier to entry is gettinglower in terms of the things
that you have to know how to do.
So now, instead of learning about design,you can learn about design so that you
(06:12):
can be better equipped in terms of,when you are writing prompts and stuff.
But now, you just have to learn howto write prompts that will get you
the result that you want if you'regoing to, take that type of approach.
But for somebody that.
That doesn't know what toput in your thumbnails.
It's great for that as well, right?
So let's say for example.
You're making a video about something,you have a video idea and you're
(06:33):
like, man this would be a reallygood idea, but I have no idea what I
would put in the thumbnail for this.
Like, how would I grab attentionbased on this idea that I have?
And you can basically explain your ideato chat GPT and then have chat GPT, just
keep giving you ideas of things thatyou might put in your thumbnail so that
you can, solve that problem as well.
So I think when it comes to.
(06:54):
What I'm seeing is I am seeing moreAI thumbnails, more AI titles, seeing,
more people getting results withnew channels, which is always a win.
And also, hearing about peopleusing chat GPT in, those
particular ways and a bunch more.
So for me, it's a lot of trialand error where I've experimented
with a bunch of AI tools.
(07:14):
And sometimes I've leaned a little toomuch on AI and I found that the results
were not as good as when I used it asa companion, and I used it as, okay,
maybe I'll use ai exactly what you said.
You had a really good phraseat the beginning of that answer
you said, to fill the gaps.
I think that's where AI is bestis when you find those things that
you might be not as, efficientat, and you use AI there.
(07:38):
But where your genius is.
If you're a really good, like forme, I feel podcasting and audio and
being able to riff in front of amicrophone is one of my strong suits.
And so I'm not gonna use AI voices, right?
Because that's just, that's whereI feel like I'm the strongest.
But as far as some of the other thingslike maybe editing or packaging or
copy, when I'm sending out marketingmaterials for my episodes, those are the
(07:59):
places where I found AI to really help.
Me and help propel me andshave off hours of time.
So let's just breakthis down for a minute.
We'll talk about your workflow ina second, but let's talk about just
what you would consider to be the.
Upper echelon of AI tools, like inyour workflow, what have you found to
be as a creator, not necessarily inyour personal life, but as a creator,
(08:22):
as creators are listening to the show,what have you found to be the top tier
tools that, because there are so manyout there, Nick, sometimes it can get
confusing, it can be overwhelming,and there's a tool here, a tool there.
Some of them do the same thing.
What would you consider to be the toolsthat you would just say, Hey, these are
the ones you need to have in your toolbelt, and then you can expand beyond
those after you have those, navigated.
(08:44):
So I think the core one is chat, GPT.
Of course, like I think that at leastthe way that I use chat GPT and my
professional and personal life ifI could only have one subscription.
I would suffer with everything elseso that I could have a chat GBT
subscription, you pay $20, right?
Yeah.
And that's just so that Ican, talk to it because I
(09:06):
brainstorm with it while I drive.
I pass ideas by it.
If I'm working on something for,myself or for anybody else I will,
run those ideas through chat GPTif I'm doing presentations, I don't
rely on presentation or on chat GBTfor outlines and things like that.
Because I take pride in, sharingthe things that I know and the
way that I like to share 'em.
However.
One thing that I do though, is I willtake my presentation notes or my outline
(09:30):
and I will drop it in there and I'llbe like, Hey is there anything that
you think that I might be missing herethat would add value to this particular
audience for this particular thing?
And and then, I'll get whatever feedback.
And then of course, likeyou mentioned before.
I'll use my intuition from there becauseyou do wanna make sure you're using these
things as an assistant or a tool, notnecessarily to do all of the work for you.
(09:51):
But, using it for those types of thingsI've found to be extremely valuable.
So Chad, GPD for that I repurposed someof my content, so of course I'm using Opus
clip for that 'cause it's the best one.
In addition to that really.
Those are really the only twoin terms of my creator life.
Now I'm also using Claude andI'm also using Cursor because I'm
also building some software stuff.
(10:12):
But when it comes to, being acontent creator side of what I do
for that, just chat g and Opus clip.
Yeah I think chat, GPT isthe one that I use the most.
I found that perplexity is reallyinteresting because it's really good
at search and so I can be researchingor wanting to, I'm working on a course
right now and something I'm doing withon my tutorial YouTube channel is I'm
(10:34):
gonna be linking a bunch of coursesto some of my more popular videos.
And I found that to, to be successfulwith the one I've launched so far
and it's helping me basically.
Break down the course and the differentmodules, like you said, I have the
outline I've written myself, but it'sreally helped me by giving it that
outline and saying, Hey where arethe, where am I missing something?
Is there a module I'm missing?
And there was a couple where itshowed me for instance, I'm doing
(10:57):
a course on how to use AppleNotes, for basically just the full.
Gambit of utilizing AppleNotes and Apple reminders to
simplify the productivity space.
And it was like hey, there's these newfeatures with Apple Notes where it is
in tandem with Apple reminders and AppleCalendar, and I didn't have any of that.
And so it helped me get that to whereit's oh, okay, these are the things
that I'm missing in these things.
So I love to hear thatopus clip I've used before.
(11:19):
If you don't know what that is, ittakes long form content, breaks it
down into vertical short form content,and can do even more than that now.
It actually does the mid-tiervideo clips and it's growing.
I also really.
Like de script, I'm not sureif you've heard of that one.
It's a text base editor whereI can throw my videos into
or can throw my podcast into.
It can remove the fillerwords automatically.
It'll remove the gaps.
(11:39):
I still send my stuff to an audioeditor, but I'm getting closer and
closer to not really having to, becausethat tool really helps me with that.
So I love that.
Are there any prompts that you just.
You've created yourself and you'rewilling to share maybe not the full
prompt, I have one for thumbnails that Ithink are, you know that I've mentioned
here numerous times, but are there anyprompts that you use that have really
allowed you to get results beyond whatthe normal or average AI result would be?
(12:04):
In terms of gets betterresults than normal ai?
I am not sure.
I do have a folder full of prompts onmy computer, but in terms of, things
off the top of my head, I'm not sure.
But but I do absolutely have,prompts for thumbnails, I
prompts for content strategy.
I, and a lot of times when it comes tochat GPT specifically, I'll also just.
Talk to it in normal language.
So one of the things that that I'vefound very helpful, because, I'm trying
(12:27):
to learn a lot of coding right now, andthen I'll also think about this when
it comes to workflow or, have theseconversations when it comes to workflow
and when it comes to the content I'mpublishing and all of those things, and
learning about teaching, like all these.
Just other ideas like when I gointo town, 'cause I live out in the
country where I'm at and I've gotabout a, 20 to 30 minute drive, to
get to the nearest, civilization.
(12:48):
And one of the things thatI'll do is I will put Chad GPT
in voice mode and I'll just.
Brainstorm with it, like the wholeride there, the whole ride back.
And during those conversations, I'll betalking to it about, is there anything
that I might be missing about this?
Is there any way that I mightbe able to do this better?
Am I looking at this the right way?
If you were in my position, isthere, anything that you would
recommend to me about this?
(13:09):
Those types of things.
And then I'll just try to havenatural conversations with it and
just ask it, all the questions.
Now, of course, it is AI andAI does have errors in it and
sometimes it gets things wrong.
Don't wanna necessarily lean on it 100%,but it is just amazing for helping you be
able to identify things like one of thethings that I'm doing in my personal life.
That's crossing over to my greaterlife is is I'm making apps.
(13:30):
And as part of that, when youfirst start you don't really
know what you're doing at all.
But then you can starthaving these conversations.
You're like, okay, so when I'm makingthese I am, 'cause I'm using AI for it.
So I'm like, okay, whenI'm making these, I am.
Seeing these particularthings come up a lot.
So since I'm seeing these things comeup a lot, like these functions or
these structs or whatever, can youjust explain to me what that is and can
(13:51):
you explain to me why it's important?
Can you explain to me how to use it?
What's the case on, when to use it, whennot to use it, and things like that?
And you can also do thiswhen it comes to your videos.
So here's something interesting,for content creators.
So go into your high performing videosones that had a strong first 30 seconds.
Go and grab your transcript for that.
Drop it into chat, GPT, and just ask itwhat it thinks about that particular hook.
(14:13):
And then go and take your videos.
That had a rough time in that first30 seconds to where you just, you
just, we make mistakes, right?
But go do the same thing with videosthat you know, that did poorly in
that first 30 seconds to where youpretty much killed your retention.
And drop that into thereand see what it has to say.
I found the accuracy on chat, GPT gaugingwhat a good hook is to be extremely high.
And because of that.
(14:35):
You can also use chat GBT tohelp you be able to, write
better hooks for your videos.
So I'm not a huge fan.
I know people use it.
I even work with a tool calledTube Spanner that, that has a tool,
that is an AI script writing tool.
And I think things like that are okay,but I think that as a creator, part of
being a creator is creating something.
(14:55):
So because of that, I alwaysrecommend that people do
write their own, scripts, but.
Yeah, when you're writing your scriptsaying Hey, I think this is a great hook,
let me just get that second opinion.
And then drop it into, chatTPT just for those blind spots.
'cause it'll tell you, it'll saythings like, this part right here
where you said this it's a littlebit wordy and, people are likely to
tune out during this particular part.
(15:16):
So because of that you might wannatighten this up a little bit.
And those little things to wherein your brain you're like, Hey,
I think this might be good.
And then you just get that feedbackto where you may or may not take
the advice, but it just gives youthings to consider where then you
can go back on your intuition, yourunderstanding of your audience,
your understanding of what typicallyworks in your channel and all that.
And you can say, yeah, maybe I do wannatweak this based on what I know, or I.
(15:39):
I've done this plenty of times in termsof this same thing I'm getting ready
to do, so it's probably gonna be okay.
But but using it for, those types ofthings is also really powerful in my
opinion because it brings us full circleback to what we first started talking
about in terms of, just using it asan assistant, getting that additional
feedback, especially for people thatdon't have other content creators in
their lives that can look at what itis they're doing or they can bounce
(16:01):
ideas off of, or, those types of things.
So I'm gonna give you an example of acreator that might have emailed me as a
creator coach, and I'm gonna allow you togimme the answer that you would give them.
So let's play, playthis game a little bit.
A creator messages me and they said thisvideo is starting to get some traction
with the algorithm, but the CTR is awful.
(16:24):
So the click-throughrate is abysmal, right?
Like the packaging maynot be whatever it is.
Should you, should I change the thumbnail?
Should I change the title?
What advice would you give thiscreator, because I get this a lot.
I actually had an email come in thismorning with this exact question.
What would you tell that creator?
First I would tell them that thumbthat click through rate isn't
(16:45):
just based on your thumbnail.
Your click through rate isbased on the topic of the video.
It's based on the timing of, when youpublish that video, not necessarily
Monday through Friday, eight to,10 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM Not that
timing, but timing in terms of whenpeople are the most interested in
that particular piece of content.
But basically it comesdown to the topic itself.
It comes down to the timing.
(17:05):
It comes down to the thumbnail'sability to grab the attention of the
people that you are trying to, reachso that they can quickly and easily
identify that your content's aboutsomething that they might care about.
And then your title as well, in termsof, is, does that entire package make
somebody feel like this is a videothat I might wanna watch, or this is a
video that I can put in my watch later.
(17:27):
Or this is not a video that I wannawatch, or does it make the viewer
feel like, oh, I need to watch this.
And when it comes to your click throughrate it's important to remember that
sometimes your thumbnail's fine.
Sometimes your title's fine.
Sometimes you're just off on the topic.
Sometimes you're fine on the topic.
I. And your thumbnailor title are off, right?
(17:47):
So because of that it's important toconsider all of those things and start
looking into all of those things.
So the very first thing there wouldbe, okay, if it's a click-through
rate problem, then you've alreadylooked at the click-through rate
and you've already identifiedthat people aren't clicking on it.
So therefore sit back and lookat your thumbnail and say, okay,
if somebody that I was trying to.
(18:07):
Somebody, my target audience, if thisshowed up on their homepage, what exactly
about this thumbnail would help them ata glance identify that this has something
to do with something that they care about.
And then ask yourself when it comesto this thumbnail if that's the thing
that would help them grab attention.
Is there anything else that I'mgoing into thumbnail that would
actually distract them from that interms of I've made it way too busy.
(18:29):
I've got stuff all over the place.
I'm adding subscribe buttons and allthis other craziness to my thumbnail.
Is there anything that you're goingto distract people from that thing
that's gonna help them identify it?
I see this a lot in gaming where peoplewill use game imagery but everything that
is on top of the game imagery makes itto where you can't see the game imagery.
And it makes it hard for peoplethat are interested in that game
to be able to easily identify that.
(18:50):
Content is about that game inthe first place unless they
happen to read the title.
But if you notice on YouTube, thumbnailsare getting bigger and bigger.
So because of that, it's importantto make sure that do think of
that in terms of being a primaryway to grab people's attention.
But yeah, when it comes to that particularanswer, dusty I would tell them that,
it comes down to those things andbecause of that, they should consider.
(19:11):
The actual topic.
So if they are getting a bad clickthrough rate, the first thing I would
tell 'em actually is go into your trafficsources and tell me exactly what the
click through rate is for homepage,for suggested videos for YouTube
search, and then tell me where it isthat you're trying to get views from.
And then I would go through that wholeexercise that we just went through.
I. Yeah.
And then I would have them lookto make sure that other videos
(19:32):
have been published on the topic.
And if they haven't, I would havethem hop into Google Trends to see,
if the interest on that topic is onthe rise steady or on the decline.
I would have them just check intocommunities around that topic to
make sure this is something thatpeople are actively talking about.
That sort of thing for the topic itself,just so they can verify the topic itself.
And then when it comesto the timing, sometimes.
You can be the first person topublish a video, and YouTube doesn't
(19:53):
have a lot of inventory on that.
And even though the video is not thebest quality, even though you know your
thumbnail isn't that great, and yourtitle's not super compelling because
the topic is on point and the timingis right, you don't have a lot of
competition on that particular thing, andyour videos can blow up because of that.
So when it comes to, your clickthrough rate being down, there's just,
there's a lot of variables there.
So because of that, you have tobe able to sit back and look at.
(20:16):
Everything that's going on there, andmake sure that you do have it focused
on the viewer in terms of helpingthem identify it, and then secondary
also making sure it's it's compelling.
And then of course, all of that wrappedin or wrapped around a good topic.
Yeah, I've had videos like that wherethey didn't perform well initially.
I'll never forget, before COVIDI, I did one of the first full
(20:36):
Zoom tutorials and then COVID hit,and that video just went crazy.
And I look back at it and man,that video could have been so much
better, but 'cause of the timing, I.
Exactly like you said, that videoreally popped off because it was
just right place, right time.
But now knowing what I know therewould've been some certain changes
that, that I would have made.
We oftentimes thought, think about thepackaging being title, thumbnail, whatever
(20:59):
it is, but like you said, sometimesit is just timing and sometimes it is.
Maybe you're not answeringthe right question.
So if you're a business or infinance, whatever, now it's different.
If you're in gaming, maybe thegame's not as popular as you think,
or maybe it's not, at the peak ofwhere it needs to be or whatever.
There's so many things to considerother than just the thumbnail, right?
(21:19):
Because the timing does matter.
The relevancy does matter.
A few, if you, about a month ago, ifyou would've done a video on tariffs.
You know that you probably would'vegotten a lot more views as opposed to
doing it six to nine months ago, right?
Because the tariff has now become avery common word here in the States.
These are all things that wehave to understand and know.
What if it was the opposite of that?
(21:39):
Nick?
What if it was okay?
I'm getting a prettygood click through rate.
People are wanting to see what'sunderneath the cover of the book
here, but whenever they come tothe video, they're not watching.
A very long time the watch time.
And so we can talk about hooks, wecan talk about things like that.
What would you say to that person?
When it comes to your videos performingwell on YouTube, like everything
has to work across the board.
(22:01):
If you, I. Kind of drop the ball anywhere,then it can negatively impact the video.
Sometimes it can be okayand get you through.
But if you drop the ball anywherein the process, then you know it
can negatively impact the video.
So when it comes to audienceretention, you have a few things
that you have to think about.
One, you have to think, and thisis usually where people start,
is you gotta think about, okay,when somebody enters that video.
(22:21):
Then, what are they seeing?
What are they hearing?
What are you showing?
What are you telling them?
How's your story starting?
Is there music playing yes or no?
What's actually happening?
Right there.
And how do people respond to that?
But.
I recommend that people go a stepfarther back and they start thinking
about their packaging again, andthey start thinking, okay, people
are clicking on this at a high rate.
That means that they're interestedin how I've packaged this up, but the
(22:43):
video isn't meeting their expectations.
So if the video isn't meetingtheir expectations, then that means
that I didn't do a good job at mypackaging, because they're expecting
more out of this video than what itis that they're getting out of it.
So because of that, maybeI've, sensationalized this a
lot more than I should have.
And then when somebody clicks intothe video, they are, not getting
what they expected out of that video.
(23:05):
As a content creator, it's reallyimportant to make sure that you're
always thinking about the expectationthat your packaging, your thumb topic,
title, thumbnail create about the videoand a workflow tweak that you can do
that can help you increase the activitythat you're getting on your channel.
Regardless of, your size, if you're notdoing it this way, as long as your content
type, allows, this is, a lot of peoplewill make their videos and then they
(23:28):
will, after the video's completed, whilethey're uploading that video to YouTube,
they will open up Photoshop or whateverit is, they make thumbnails in, and then
they'll start, hammering away on thatthumbnail and they'll be like, okay, now
how am I gonna, represent this thumbnail?
What's a good title for this video?
And they'll start thinking about it.
Then if you.
Reverse that process.
And first you start thinking about,okay this is my video idea before
I commit to making this video idea,how can I package this up in a way
(23:52):
that's going to be effective forthe people that I'm trying to reach?
And how can I package this up in a waythat's gonna create the right expectation
for the video that I want to make?
And then from there, you keep workingon that part until you can be like,
okay, for the film, I'm gonna do this.
Or here's a couple options for meto do for the thumbnail and then
for the title, I'm gonna do this.
And with this thumbnail and with thistitle, based on the topic that they
express, there's a really good chancethat the person that sees this on their
(24:15):
homepage or search or suggested videos,wherever it is you're bringing 'em
in from that they're going to expect.
This when this video first starts,and then what The next step after
you figure out your packaging isto then go and script out or bullet
point or overall just make the video.
And the benefit that gives youis because you're considering the
entire viewer experience from themoment they see your content on
(24:39):
their homepage or suggested videos orsearch from the moment they see that.
All the way through clicking throughit and then what it is that you're
going to show them or share with them,as they're coming into the video.
And then from there, the restof the video content itself.
So that little workflow tweakcan make a really big difference.
And lemme give you an example.
So let's say that in the video idea stage,you're like, okay, I'm going phishing.
(25:02):
If you have a Phish channel, you'relike, okay, I'm going fishing and
since I'm going fishing I'm gonnamake some content while I'm there.
I've also made some videos of some otherareas of fishing and since I'm going here,
maybe I can put together a compilation ofsorts and talk about these other places.
'cause I all, I have all this footageand let me target a video on the
best phishing fishing locations in,I don't know, we'll say Florida.
In Florida.
(25:23):
And in that particular case, ifI, if that's gonna be the title.
Then when somebody comes into thatvideo, it would be okay to show drone
shots and to show some, like settingthe scene type of things for some
of these locations that you're goingto show, maybe as you're talking
underneath it or something like that.
But basically the focus is they wouldcoming in could, it would be okay having
(25:43):
drone shots and that kind of stuff.
Because in that case, they'reexpecting a video about.
These, cool locations and you're showinglike an overview of those locations.
Now, if you had a video and samething, you're going fishing, you're
like, okay, I'm gonna make a video.
If you start working on the packagingfirst and you're like, okay I also wanna
make a video about some fishing tips.
In that particular case,you're like, okay, what would
(26:04):
the thumbnail be for that?
What would the title be for that?
So this is gonna be, 10ways to catch more fish.
Just as rough example.
So since you're setting everything upthat way and you know it, then when
you go, fishing and you're making theactual video content, okay, when the
video first starts, I'm gonna tell 'em,as soon as they come into that video,
hey if you wanna catch more fish.
I'm gonna show you 10 different ways.
It's gonna help you catch,a lot more fish, right?
(26:25):
And then that way you're just meetingthem right there where they're at, right?
With that expectation, andyou're confirming that they
clicked on the right thing.
They're not being clickbait, anything like that.
And then you start gettinginto the content itself.
So when you reformat the way thatyou're approaching it it can make a
really big difference because you'releaning into the viewer expectation when
you're making the actual video content.
(26:47):
So all that makes sense, dusty.
It does make sense.
Sometimes we mislead the viewerand we get the wrong person.
A lot of times we, speaking ofphishing, no pun intended, we we
catch the wrong fish and we arenot actually they're not really.
What they came there for isnot in the video because we
misled them with the packaging.
So I love that.
Thank you for being that's why Ilove having conversations with you
(27:07):
'cause you're so in depth and havingexamples that are actually tangible
that we can think through really helps.
Creators make it applicableto, to their channel.
I wanna ask you this, we talked offair before we hit record about your
I guess you would call it a slightshift in, in your thought behind
vertical and short form content andeven the platforms outside of YouTube.
(27:28):
How has the shift toward shorts andvertical video and TikTok and everything
of that nature that file, format, content,format changed the creator economy
and even your opinion and viewpoint?
Let's talk about that for a minute.
I. How's it changed the creator economy?
That's a great question.
So when it comes to the creator economy,it's just given people more opportunity.
(27:50):
I think it's come at the expense ofcannibalizing some of the long form
content, because now where somebody mighthave chosen to go watch some long form
content, they'll open up TikTok instead,or they'll open up YouTube shorts instead.
So because of that I thinkthat, it probably, has had
an impact there, however.
I think it's great.
And the reason I think it's great is,and I didn't like it at first, I'll be
(28:12):
transparent, but the reason I think it'sgreat now is because it makes it easier
for people to make content because, eventhough you can do high production, I.
Vertical content.
Most people, don't, and it makes itto where somebody can be sitting in
a car telling a good story and theircontent can get as many, if not more
views than somebody that spends, $10,000on the video that they're making.
(28:34):
And I think that particular advantage is.
Substantial when it comes to peoplebeing able to tap into the opportunity
that all of these, platforms provideus in terms of income, growing,
personal brands, things like that.
So I think that it's just loweredthe barrier to entry so much
that that it makes content.
I. Making content accessible for almostanybody that has the courage to do it.
(28:57):
And because of that I think that a lotof people have through vertical content,
through, YouTube shopping affiliateprogram through tiktoks affiliate program.
And just from, getting ad rates ifthey get a lot of views on their
videos vertical content has changedpeople's lives in the same way that.
Long form content for, dusty, forus old school folks, the way that,
landscape content did that for us.
(29:18):
It's doing that for, awhole new group of people.
And because of that, I thinkit's absolutely fantastic now.
I know there's a lot of, bad content onthere and I know there's a lot of, things
when it comes to the algorithms of theseplatforms that I think that some of that
stuff is creating some unneeded negativityin the world because, psychologically
people do gravitate towards.
(29:38):
Doom.
If you open a video and they're like,oh my gosh, this thing's happening.
You just can't help but watch it.
And when you watch it, then thesystems are gonna be like, Hey, they
like this stuff and then they'rejust gonna throw more at you.
And because of that, I thinkthat it is causing, issues
related to that sort of thing.
But as a creator though I thinkit's a great opportunity because.
When it comes to long form content,and we talked about this before Dusty,
but when it comes to long form content,you have, you, not only do you have
(30:01):
to get really good at making videos,but you have to get really good at
the topics, like we just talked about.
And you have to get good atmaking thumbnails that not
just making a thumbnail, butmaking an effective thumbnail.
And that's hard.
In addition to that, you have toget good at making, nice titles
that will inform people or compelthem to click on your videos.
And, there's just a lot more involvedwhen it comes to long form content.
When it comes to vertical content.
(30:22):
You just show up in somebody'sface, they're sitting there, you.
Looking at their phones, scrollingthrough, and you just show up.
And when you show up, then youjust have to grab their attention.
You gotta be talking about somethingthat they care about or, grabbing
their attention in some other way.
And then you just have to get themthrough, as much of that video
as these platforms deem I. As asatisfactory experience for the viewer.
So I think it just makes iteasier for more people to enter
(30:44):
the world of content creation.
And I think that it's, expanded thecreator economy because of it, because
people are getting brand deals there.
People are, growing theirown personal brands.
They're selling their own products there.
Part of my thing, dusty, that I mentionedearlier is, part of my thing with
ramping up my vertical content productionis because I know it's necessary.
For the type of content that I makeit's, we're at that time now and I
(31:06):
think we've been there for a while.
I've just, I just haven't beenaggressively going after it.
But I think we're at that time now towhere, if you want to stay on top of it
and you wanna stay on top of people'sminds, that you gotta be CNM everywhere
because a lot of people are using.
They're watching long form content.
When that's appropriate forum.
They're watching short form content onYouTube and that's appropriate forum.
Some people are going over to TikTok,when that's appropriate forum.
(31:27):
Some people are hitting Instagram reelsand that's appropriate forum and so on.
So I think being able to tap intothat and be able to reach all of these
people through there, that you're eitherone already reaching or two would've
never ran into you ever if you didn'tmake content for those platforms.
I think it's just anadvantage that we have.
And in addition to that.
I was telling Dusty before the call, Iwent from making like one and we'll say
(31:50):
one and a half on average videos per weekto now, I'm publishing like 30 pieces of
content a week, and my goal by the endof this year is to be hitting a hundred.
And the whole thing with that makes iteasy when it comes to vertical content
is that you make one vertical video.
And you publish that onevertical video across everything.
And then when you publish that acrosseverything, you don't have to make, okay,
(32:12):
I gotta make a unique video for TikTok, Aunique video for YouTube shorts, a unique
video for Instagram, a unique video forFacebook, a unique video for Clapper.
You don't have to do that.
You get, you make onegood video and then you.
Publish that everywhere, andyou can do that every day.
If are, aggressively, trying to do itand you don't need productions dusty
set looks nice, my set looks nice, wehave our fancy cameras and microphones,
but you don't need this stuff, right?
(32:33):
Like, when it comes to verticalcontent, really any content
it just has to be good enough.
That the quality of the contentisn't a distraction for the
people that are consuming it.
So for example, if you watch a videoand the audio's bad or something,
you're like, eh, so something alittle bit weird about this, right?
And you'll tune out.
But as long as the content's goodenough to where there's nothing that's
distracting to the viewer, then it'sgood enough to get views, right?
(32:54):
It's good enough to add value to peopleto where you know, they'll enjoy it
and they'll keep coming back for more.
Tens of thousands of people fortunatelytune into this podcast every week, and
a lot of them are really confused abouthow they should format their channel.
Should it be one long form threeshorts a week, should it be two
(33:15):
long forms, five shorts a week?
If you are making a recommendation toa creator, not necessarily someone just
starting off, but just in general onYouTube, what would you suggest they do?
Because I'm with you.
I'm leaning more and more as time goes on.
That short form is just anotherway people can discover you.
(33:35):
Short form is just another wayfor people to, again, maybe find.
Who you out, who you are and thenend up listening to your long form
stuff or podcasts from in, in my case.
So what would be your just flatrecommendation for creators as a whole?
Obviously it might be tailoredspecifically a little different if
you're in a different niche or spaceor whatever, but just in general,
(33:57):
like what are your recommendationsnow in 2025 and going forward?
My recommendation is goal first, right?
So goal first.
So figure out what you're trying to do.
So if you're making content there'sprobably, if you're making content
and you're into it enough that you'relistening to this show there's probably
something that you're wanting in return.
If you are a part-timecreator, that's fine.
(34:18):
But you're probably wanting something.
You're wanting either to, ultimatelyturn this into some type of side
income or maybe a full-time income.
You're wanting to use this to toposition yourself professionally.
Maybe you're wanting to use this togenerate leads or sales in some way.
Step number one is to figureout exactly what that thing is.
So if you don't know it yet spend sometime thinking about it because the way
(34:39):
that you do content can change basedon what you're trying to accomplish.
For example, if you're tryingto generate leads in sales.
Then in that particular case, I wouldbe doing vertical content because
somebody doesn't have to, click on it.
It takes less effort.
And as long as you're, resonatingwith people, then it's really easy
to bring attention to the productsand services that you have to offer.
Two is I would also make searchbased YouTube long form content
(35:01):
that solves the problems of thepeople that you are serving.
The reason that I would do that isbecause it's easy and it's easy to
get attention through YouTube search.
If you if you're going for arecommendation play, which is where
the quick wins come from, 'cause that'swhere most of the views are on YouTube.
But if you're going for a recommendationplay like you're competing with the
best YouTubers on the platform thatyour viewers are watching, right?
(35:22):
So because of that, the competitionis just fierce when it comes
to recommendation system.
You have to make really good contentin order to get attention in the
recommendation system at leastsubstantial attention when it comes to.
Vertical content.
It's or sorry, when it comes tosearch content it's different there
because now you're just competingfor those particular search queries.
And of course, if you targetsearch, then you can also get
(35:43):
recommendation traffic as well.
But you can, if you're targetingsearch intentionally, then you
can show up in YouTube search aslong as your videos compete there.
You can show up in YouTube searchand all the other text, textual
search engines, and now chat.
GPT is also showing videos also.
So when it comes to that sort of thing.
I've had plenty of times whereI'm typing in something, trying
(36:04):
to learn about something and chat.
GPT will recommend one video.
So if your video ends up beingpositioned well in Google and in
YouTube, then it can also show upas the only option in chat GPT.
So because of that, that can alsobe really advantageous if you're
trying to generate leads or sales.
If you're trying to generatesubscribers on your YouTube
channel, you're like, you know what?
I don't care about any of that, Nick.
(36:24):
I'm just trying to bea big content creator.
I just want a lot of followers.
In that case, verticalcontent all day long.
And the reason you do that is becauseone, it's easier to get people to
subscribe when it comes to vertical.
I'm not gonna say easier, but justat scale you're, it's just easier
to get in front of a lot more peoplewhen it comes to vertical content.
'cause you can justproduce so much, so easily.
So because of that, if I wasjust going for subscribers and
(36:45):
that was it, then I would justfocus mostly on vertical content.
If I'm trying to create a personalbrand, I would do everything.
Like I currently do I would publish longform content on whatever cadence you want.
I would publish, I woulddo regular live streams.
Same with leads and sales.
Also, because you live streams, helpyou demonstrate your expertise help
you answer questions, help you betterunderstand the people that you're serving.
(37:07):
Yeah, so I would do long form live streamsand vertical content all over the place.
So as far as live streams go, what if I'mworried that there's nobody gonna show up?
What if I have a smaller channel,I just got accepted and I'm just
now able to do live streams?
Is that something that is the waythat I suggest it and to my clients is
that it's a good learning experiencefor them to get better and better at
sharing their proposition, the thingsthat they're trying to share with their
(37:31):
audience and get to know them better.
Even if there's just two orthree people in the chat.
These are people that are.
In love with what they're doing.
So what are your recommendations,because you are big on live streaming.
You're, you've been a proponentof it for years now, we've
talked about it on this show.
Any your opinions changed on that?
Or are you just even more bullish on that?
I'm all in on live streams, especiallywith all this AI content and everything.
(37:52):
I'm like heavy on live streams interms of the importance of people
learning how to do live streams.
Content dependent.
Of course.
If I was doing like Entertainmentchannel, probably not.
But if I'm teaching people somethingor if I have a business I'm trying to
drive, like leads and sales, I wouldbe live streaming like all the time.
So when it comes to live streams,the reason that I'm such a big
fan of, oh, first, let me back up.
We don't need to talk about the reasons.
(38:13):
Let's talk about the solution there.
So you asked me what if somebodydoesn't have people hanging
out in their live stream?
So what I recommend is if youare starting to live stream is.
Do a live stream that doesn'trequire audience participation.
So I did this experiment on my channelthis is about two years ago now, and on
that experiment, basically every Saturday,my brother Dee and I, we have a live
(38:35):
stream that we go live for three hoursstraight and we answer viewer questions.
So we don't know what we're gonnatalk about before the stream starts.
Stream starts, and then questionsstart coming in, and then we
start answering questions.
So that's great.
In our position because when we startthe stream, we have people, that are
like waiting with their questions.
But even sometimes then if I clearthe form too late or something
like that, before the stream,even, with the viewership that
(38:56):
we have, it might still take sometime for the questions to queue up.
But if you're just starting, youmight not be able to do a q and a
session like that because you mightnot have all the participants.
So because of that, youhave to do something else.
So one of the things that I did on mychannel and this was really effective.
Is I had a weekly show that I didfor a year where all I did was every
(39:19):
Friday, 'cause I stay up with YouTubenews and stuff like that anyway.
'cause it's part of my, work.
So what I would do is every FridayI would have a YouTube creator news.
And I would go live and Iwouldn't interact with the chat.
I wouldn't, I wouldn'ttry to, get engagement.
I wouldn't do any of those things.
I would just be focused on, thisis what's happening this week and
this is what you need to know about.
And then I would shut it down.
(39:40):
So instead of it being a three hourstream, or a one hour stream, or even
a 30 minute stream that a lot of peoplethink that they have to do when it
comes to live streaming, some of thestreams were like eight minutes long.
Some of the streams are 15 minutes long.
I think the longest one is 30minutes, because at the end of
that one, I did do a q and a.
'cause it was a big deal with YouTubereleasing music and stuff like that.
And there were a lot ofweird things about it.
But that particular experiment,those particular live streams were
(40:03):
some of the highest viewed livestreams that I have on my channel.
They generated the most revenue on thechannel when it comes to live streams.
And the whole thing there is that it was.
On topic, on trend content in termsof, the things that were happening
on YouTube, and I was delivering anactual service through that content
of keeping content creators up todate with, things that matter to them.
(40:25):
So because of that, what I recommendis that if you don't have anybody
hanging out, offer a service.
Maybe it's news of your industry.
Maybe it's, something else, maybe it'slike a tip or something like that, where
every week you make a piece of contentlive, and then as soon as that live
stream's complete you, you shut it down.
So you don't have to do it for 30 minutes.
You don't have to do it for 45 minutes.
(40:45):
You just say, okay, for this livestream, I'm gonna talk about this.
While I'm growing my audiencehere, I'm gonna talk about this.
And then as soon as it's done,I'm just gonna end it right.
And then when you're talking about it,you start it with a hook just like you
would do in a piece of video content.
And then you end it with a next stepin terms of, hey, if you wanna learn
more about whatever this thing isthat I'm talking about, you can click
on this video on the screen here.
(41:07):
And then by doing that, you'recreating more content for the channel.
You are going to.
Slowly start building a liveaudience as people find it
and they find value out of it.
And then from there, once you getthat audience build up, then you
can go and, you can start doing, thethings that do require a little bit
of participation from the viewers.
Other things that aregreat for that is demos.
Like for example, if Dusty wantedto go live and show people how to
(41:27):
use a piece of software, he coulddo that in a blink of an eye, right?
And with there somebody doesn'thave to be in there, right?
He could just do that all by himselfand it would be just like he was
making a video or he could havea thousand people in there and it
would all be pretty much the samein terms of how he's, interacting.
Now.
Another thing when it comes to livestreaming to no one that I think is
a really important thing to consider.
Is you have the different formatsof content that you put out to give
(41:48):
yourself the best chance of getting areturn on the investment of time that
you're doing with your live stream.
But another thing that can bereally advantageous is cover up
everything that is audience based.
So you know, all of these streamingplatforms and everything they
have their comment section.
Take post-its and cover that up.
Or stretch it out towhere it's off screen.
If you have multiple monitors if theyhave a live counter on it and it shows
(42:11):
how many people take a post-it andput it over that, and then livestream,
imagine that there's a thousand peoplewatching in livestream like that.
And then what that's gonna do for you.
Is, that's going to make youstart looking at your live
stream through a different lens.
So instead of looking at it like a lotof people will do, this is the type
of feedback I get in this situationis is people will be like I don't
(42:31):
have a lot of people hanging out.
So because of that, it doesn't reallyhave to be like, that good or it
doesn't have to be, I don't haveto stay that focused or whatever.
I'll just hang out until people comein and that's the wrong approach.
If you want people to enjoyit, then it has to be good.
And then as people find it on the replay.
Then they gotta be like, oh,okay, this is something I wanna
go participate in next time.
Let me make sure I subscribe, turnon notifications and all that.
(42:51):
So stream there's a thousandpeople watching, or there's going
to be a thousand people watching.
'cause you might get that on the replayor the next live stream that you do.
If you start putting out, goodlive streams, you might, start
growing that type of viewership.
Because of that stream, like everybody'swatching, even when nobody's watching and
like Dusty mentioned before, use this asan opportunity to learn how to stream.
(43:13):
While you don't have that many peoplewatching, because when it comes to live
streams, you're gonna have tech problems.
You're gonna start your streams and you'regonna forget to turn on your microphone
or you're gonna forget to unmute it.
Sometimes you're gonnaforget what you're saying.
You're gonna have allthese variables at play.
And failing with those things when youdon't have a lot of people watching
is gonna feel a lot better than, whenyou have similar things happen, when
(43:35):
you have a lot of people watching.
I I love that I am bullishon live streaming as well.
It's something that I'm going to startimplementing more and more in the content
that I create on, on, on all differentverticals, even on the tutorial side,
as well as my YouTube education side.
That's hanging off mypodcast, so I do believe that.
That streaming is a big deal, and I wouldconsider it one of the best ways to,
(43:59):
number one, not only get video ideas,because think of all the free video ideas
you're getting from the comments, right?
When you do have people that areengaging as well as, we didn't even
talk about what it does for watchtime, so if you're trying to, yeah.
Partnered or whatever.
Even on your channel, Nick, yourlive streams, after you publish
them are getting three to five to10,000 views, which again, that's.
(44:19):
Hundreds of hours of watch time.
And and then there's themonetization ways that, you can be
accepted to get super chats and sopeople are giving you donations.
And so there are just a number of waysin which it is one of the pillars in
what I would consider it to be one of thebest brand building methods on YouTube.
So I'm so glad that you were able toreally, flesh that out for us because
(44:40):
sometimes I have a hard time 'causeI don't do it as much as you do and
you're living that each and every week.
Dusty, let's talk whenit comes to, go ahead.
When it comes to live streaming, oneof the things that happens to me in
terms of the importance of live streams,when I'm out in the world, right?
And I have somebody, run into meand they're like, Hey, are you Nick
from YouTube when that happens?
Usually the thing that follows afterI say that I am, they'll say they
(45:02):
watch me on YouTube and then they'llgo, man, I love that show you and
your brother do on the weekend.
And then, if I'm at conferences, peoplewill be like, oh man, love that show
you and your brother do on the weekend.
It's rare that somebodytalks about the videos.
People talk about the live streams a lot.
And the thing is when it comesto that, I believe, and I could
be wrong on this but the reasonI think that happens is because.
(45:25):
When it comes to livestreams you can't edit it.
It can't be perfect.
It's a more human experience.
When you're making video content you mightedit out those parts where you're like,
oh yeah, I said something stupid there.
Or you might edit out that part whereyou're like, eh, it probably, didn't sound
right, or whatever the thing is, and youtry to make everything this like nice,
polished experience so that it makes youlook good, because we're all afraid of,
looking bad in front of other people.
But when it comes to live streams.
(45:46):
You don't have that, you don'thave the option to be like,
Hey, I'm just gonna edit.
Technically you can edit itout, but most people don't.
So like, when you are live, all ofthese nuances of yourself come out.
And I think that, that helps peopleconnect to you as a person instead of
just connecting to you as a video creator.
Just because of all of those nuances.
And you also, sometimes you'll go offtrack where you'll be talking about
(46:08):
something and then you'll be like, ohyeah, by the way, that somebody will
mention a movie or something like that.
And you'll talk aboutthat for a few minutes.
And it just lets people into all ofthese different sides of yourself that
they might not have ever known if youwere just publishing video content.
And I think that's extremely powerful,especially when it comes to being a
business owner, especially when itcomes to generating leads and sales for
anything is that human connection thatpeople get and that they can connect
(46:30):
with you, which then will ultimatelyconnect to the products that you have.
Yeah, I would always get theoccasional, oh are you dusty?
Are you, do you do the guides on YouTube?
I would get that occasionally, but whenit really started was when I did the
podcast and the podcast got more popular.
People would always say to me,they would say, oh you're dusty.
You do the YouTube show.
And then now that I dovideo, they actually see my.
(46:50):
Face and not just hear my voice.
And that combination hasreally helped me and my brand.
When I'm onboarding people into mycoaching program or bringing them into
the Creator's community group on myDiscord server and the mastermind call,
it's really resonated well with creators.
And I think live streamingdoes the same thing.
The final question I wanna ask you, 'causewe are getting close to the hour mark,
kind of 45 minutes to the hour mark andI do like to keep it around that time.
(47:13):
If you could give creatorsone piece of advice.
To prepare or to get ready forthe new world that we're in.
And it is changing.
It is evolving faster than ever.
We talked about artificial intelligence.
We talked about live streaming.
We talked about all the different formattypes of short form and long form.
What would be your advice to these people?
(47:36):
Use the tools that are available.
Because all this stuffis changing rapidly.
Google just dropped their VOthree and it's just mind blowing.
The advancements that have been madejust in video over the last, two
years and what's going to happen is.
As that technology gets cheaper and evenbetter than it already is people are going
to be using that to compete with you.
(47:57):
So if people are using that to makecontent that competes with you and people
are using that to take attention fromyour videos, then I think this is if
you can't beat 'em, join 'em scenario.
I believe that you should.
Start, of course, make sureyou're learning all this stuff
and staying on top of it.
But two, you need to be using thesetools in your workflow because if
(48:17):
you're not, then you're putting yourselfat a disadvantage from those people
that are from the people like me.
Like I save myself hours every singleweek by using, these tools and right.
Because of that, it's allowed me to beable to start uploading daily vertical
content across, a bunch of differentplatforms and that whole thing.
(48:39):
'cause I'm, 'cause that's alla work in progress as we're
having this conversation.
That is going to end up applying to myYouTube channel, it's going to end up
applying to other, aspects of, my, my workand people that aren't using this stuff.
They're, they're gonna have a hardertime and it's gonna be harder for
them to compete with the scale.
That that is, publishing a lot of content.
(48:59):
So because of that, I justencourage you to hang in there.
You got this right?
I don't want this to sound doomand gloom because it's not.
But I just think it's important thatyou, I. Everybody just sees where we're
at right now and you're like, Hey Iremember when the internet first came out.
I'm that old and because of that,I know that there's a lot of people
that's ah, it's not with the internet.
That's stupid.
That's not gonna catch on now.
(49:20):
We can't live without it.
And I think that AI's in a similarsituation to where there's people
that are like anti AI or they justdon't understand how capable it is.
I had a conversationwith a friend of mine.
He still thinks it can't make hands,but but I think people are just,
they just need to be using thesetools to give themselves the best
possible advantage that they can.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that you don't wanna be theperson that is just, get off my lawn.
(49:44):
We're not gonna be that person.
You wanna be the person that is engagedand yes, you want to be wary, you
want to understand the rules of it.
You don't want to be thatperson that just relies on.
AI for everything, right?
You definitely don't wanna be the personthat it gets left behind because there
will be creators that lean into this.
And we saw this with the internet,we saw this with cryptocurrency.
(50:05):
There will be the toppercentage of people.
And you might, could be that if you'rewilling to learn, if you're willing
to engage, if you're willing to pivotand make it applicable to wherever
and however you're creating content.
So Nick, this has been an awesome.
Conversation.
Likewise, I love having you on this show.
I'm sure we'll have you and Deeback on in December this year as
we always do, looking into 2026.
(50:26):
And I appreciate your time andif you're looking to get in touch
with Nick, I'm gonna have allof his links in the show notes.
It's Nick Niman over on YouTube andin that bio there he'll have a link,
he's creating apps, he's got CreatorMix, which is music for creators.
He is got all kinds of stuff.
And so I'm gonna put that one commonlink and you'll be able to check out.
Everything that he has tooffer for you as a creator.
So Nick, thanks again for joining in thisweek, and we'll talk to you next time.
(50:49):
That's a wrap on this week's episodeof the YouTube Creator Hub podcast.
Thanks again to Nick forjoining me this week.
He is an amazing friend anda wonderful content creator.
If you're looking to growyour YouTube channel, you
need to be subscribed to Nick.
Follow him on all the socials.
And I'll have all ofthat in the show notes.
Don't forget that I do offer one-on-oneYouTube coaching where I sit down with
(51:10):
you for 30 minutes to an hour, dependingon what your time allows, and we just
do a deep dive into your channel.
Also, we have the Creator's CommunityGroup where you get an exclusive,
extra podcast episode every week.
You get access to our monthly mastermindcalls and the Discord server where
you can chat with wonderful creatorsall throughout the week as well as.
Past guests of the show.
And if you would like, you can followme over on our email newsletter,
(51:32):
the Entrepreneur's Minute, if you'relooking to grow your online business.
It's a behind the scenes look of whatit takes and things that I'm learning
throughout the week and failures that I'mgoing through and things of that nature.
So if that sounds interesting to you,you can click the link and subscribe
to that for absolutely free of charge.
And don't forget, wherever and howeveryou're consuming this podcast, subscribe.
That's free as well.
(51:52):
So if you're listening, subscribe.
If you're watching onYouTube, do it there as well.
Thanks again.
Talk to you next week.
Hello, and welcome to this week's episodeof the YouTube at Creators Hub podcast.
(00:04):
Thank you for tuning in.
If you're a new listener, welcome.
If you are an old hat, welcome back.
I'd like to let you know that you canconnect with us in a few different ways.
I offer one-on-one YouTube coaching.
I do this all throughout the week.
I love working withcreators one of the most.
Fulfilling things that I getto do each and every week.
So if you're looking to take your YouTubechannel to the next level, definitely
check that out in the show notes below, wehave something that we call the Creator's
(00:27):
Community Group or creator's community.
You get access to an exclusivepodcast episode each and every
week that I record myself.
You get a monthly mastermind call and youget access to our Discord server, where
you can go back and forth with othercreators and pass guests to the show.
Five bucks.
That's it.
Five bucks gets you in.
And then lastly, we do have theentrepreneur's Minute email newsletter.
(00:48):
If you are looking to see what I amup to throughout the week, maybe some
resources or some books I'm readingor things that I'm learning throughout
running my online business, Porter Media.
Go check that out.
It's absolutely free, and you cansee the link below in the show notes.
This week we are joined by afriend of mine, Nick Niman.
He comes on the show acouple of times a year.
We do a state of YouTube episodeat the end of each year, like
(01:11):
we've done for the past four years.
And the past couple of years.
I'd like to have him on onemore time to discuss what he's
seeing trend wise on YouTube.
So this one's a really good one.
So let's go ahead and jumpinto the conversation first.
I would tell them that click throughrate isn't just based on your thumbnail.
Your click through rate isbased on the topic of the video.
It's based on the timing of, when youpublish that video, not necessarily
(01:33):
Monday through Friday, eight to,10 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM Not that
timing, but timing in terms of whenpeople are the most interested in
that particular piece of content.
But basically it comesdown to the topic itself.
It comes down to the timing.
It comes down to the thumbnail'sability to grab the attention of
the people that you are trying to.
Reach so that they can quickly andeasily identify that your content's about
(01:53):
something that they might care about.
Hello and welcome to thisweek's conversation on the
YouTube Creator Hub podcast.
Dusty here, as always joinedby my friend Nick Niman.
So if you don't know, I have Nickand his brother Dee on the podcast
at the end of every year, and wedo a state of YouTube conversation.
Last year was over an.
Hour and 15 minutes long.
We've been doing these now fouryears running, and I mentioned last
(02:16):
year that I would like to have Nickand Dee both on separately a, as
a midyear check-in of kind of thetrends and things going on YouTube.
If you don't know who Nick is or whathe does, he's one of the best figures
and best content educators out there.
If you are a YouTube creator, you needto know and be subscribed to Nick Niman.
So if you don't know who heis, which you probably do go
(02:37):
subscribe to all of his stuff.
I'll have those links down below.
Nick, how you.
Doing today.
I am fantastic.
Dusty, as always, man.
Really excited to come on, have aconversation with you that's gonna
add value to creators in some way.
Always excited man tobe here on the podcast.
I'm doing awesome.
Thank you for for having me on.
So let's just dive into it.
What are, right now, midway through 2025,what are some of the trends that you're
(03:01):
seeing that are exciting you for creators?
'cause you do these live streams verylong form every weekend or every other
weekend, and critique and audit people'schannels and so you're really in the weeds
and you see all these questions coming in.
So what are some things that are excitingyou right now in the creator space?
Some things that I think are interesting,and I know this is gonna be a little bit
(03:23):
of a polarizing conversation 'cause somepeople are all in for this kind of stuff.
Other people don't wantanything to do with it.
But I think something that is interestingis that a lot of people are starting
to use AI to fill holes that they have.
And what I mean by that is.
When it comes to making thumbnails,we can just make a thumbnail and we
can put it up on YouTube and we canhope that it makes sense for the
(03:44):
people that we're trying to reach.
Or you can take an extra 30 seconds,you can drop that thumbnail into chat
GPT, and you can ask chat GPT to giveyou, any feedback on that thumbnail.
And it can help you point out thingsthat you might not be able to see,
especially if you're a new creator.
And I think that things like thisare really valuable when it comes to
writing titles, making thumbnails,coming up with a content strategy,
that sort of thing, because.
(04:06):
Especially if you're new.
But even for experiencedpeople, it's helpful.
But when you're new, you might not havethe feedback mechanisms in place, right?
You might not have any friends thathave enough experience to where they
can give you real valuable information.
You might not have a design background orwhere you can look at something and you
can be like, oh, I need to adjust this inorder to make this pop a little bit more.
(04:26):
And because of that you have thesetools that people are using to.
Make better thumbnails,write more effective titles.
And in some cases, I don't know ifyou've seen it, dusty but people
are also making things so wherethey're sketching out thumbnails.
There, it's just a, some, it looks likesomething that a kindergartner would make
(04:46):
in terms of the quality of the sketch.
And then they're uploading that intochat, GPT, and they're using chat GT's
new image feature to get a realistic,high quality looking thumbnail.
Now, in some cases, this takes a handfulof swings in terms of, you gotta try it
a few times in order to dial it all inwith your prompts and things like that.
But even the results that people aregetting out of that are absolutely
(05:07):
mind blowing and they, some ofthem can compete with, like super
high quality thumbnails on YouTube.
So one of the thingsthat I think is great.
Is that creators are leaning into thatsort of thing and it's helping fill some
holes that people might have in theirskill sets, or it's helping them be
able to see things that they just mightnot be able to see yet, because they
just haven't had the experience yet.
(05:29):
So I, I'm seeing a lot moreAI generated some nails.
Unfortunately when it comes to titles,because I see a lot of semicolons and
m dashes and things like that to whereit's a little bit obvious that, it
comes from chat GBT, but I don't knowif everybody recognizes that or not.
But in a lot of cases, even thosetitles are better than, the titles
that a lot of people would writewhen they're getting started.
(05:49):
And I keep making this reference togetting started because I mostly target
newer content creators with my content.
But basically when it comes towhat I'm seeing is I'm seeing that.
The barrier to entryis getting even lower.
'cause this is one of the thingswe always talk about, how it's
getting easier and easier.
But the barrier to entry is gettinglower in terms of the things
that you have to know how to do.
So now, instead of learning about design,you can learn about design so that you
(06:12):
can be better equipped in terms of,when you are writing prompts and stuff.
But now, you just have to learn howto write prompts that will get you
the result that you want if you'regoing to, take that type of approach.
But for somebody that.
That doesn't know what toput in your thumbnails.
It's great for that as well, right?
So let's say for example.
You're making a video about something,you have a video idea and you're
(06:33):
like, man this would be a reallygood idea, but I have no idea what I
would put in the thumbnail for this.
Like, how would I grab attentionbased on this idea that I have?
And you can basically explain your ideato chat GPT and then have chat GPT, just
keep giving you ideas of things thatyou might put in your thumbnail so that
you can, solve that problem as well.
So I think when it comes to.
(06:54):
What I'm seeing is I am seeing moreAI thumbnails, more AI titles, seeing,
more people getting results withnew channels, which is always a win.
And also, hearing about peopleusing chat GPT in, those
particular ways and a bunch more.
So for me, it's a lot of trialand error where I've experimented
with a bunch of AI tools.
(07:14):
And sometimes I've leaned a little toomuch on AI and I found that the results
were not as good as when I used it asa companion, and I used it as, okay,
maybe I'll use ai exactly what you said.
You had a really good phraseat the beginning of that answer
you said, to fill the gaps.
I think that's where AI is bestis when you find those things that
you might be not as, efficientat, and you use AI there.
(07:38):
But where your genius is.
If you're a really good, like forme, I feel podcasting and audio and
being able to riff in front of amicrophone is one of my strong suits.
And so I'm not gonna use AI voices, right?
Because that's just, that's whereI feel like I'm the strongest.
But as far as some of the other thingslike maybe editing or packaging or
copy, when I'm sending out marketingmaterials for my episodes, those are the
(07:59):
places where I found AI to really help.
Me and help propel me andshave off hours of time.
So let's just breakthis down for a minute.
We'll talk about your workflow ina second, but let's talk about just
what you would consider to be the.
Upper echelon of AI tools, like inyour workflow, what have you found to
be as a creator, not necessarily inyour personal life, but as a creator,
(08:22):
as creators are listening to the show,what have you found to be the top tier
tools that, because there are so manyout there, Nick, sometimes it can get
confusing, it can be overwhelming,and there's a tool here, a tool there.
Some of them do the same thing.
What would you consider to be the toolsthat you would just say, Hey, these are
the ones you need to have in your toolbelt, and then you can expand beyond
those after you have those, navigated.
(08:44):
So I think the core one is chat, GPT.
Of course, like I think that at leastthe way that I use chat GPT and my
professional and personal life ifI could only have one subscription.
I would suffer with everything elseso that I could have a chat GBT
subscription, you pay $20, right?
Yeah.
And that's just so that Ican, talk to it because I
(09:06):
brainstorm with it while I drive.
I pass ideas by it.
If I'm working on something for,myself or for anybody else I will,
run those ideas through chat GPTif I'm doing presentations, I don't
rely on presentation or on chat GBTfor outlines and things like that.
Because I take pride in, sharingthe things that I know and the
way that I like to share 'em.
However.
One thing that I do though, is I willtake my presentation notes or my outline
(09:30):
and I will drop it in there and I'llbe like, Hey is there anything that
you think that I might be missing herethat would add value to this particular
audience for this particular thing?
And and then, I'll get whatever feedback.
And then of course, likeyou mentioned before.
I'll use my intuition from there becauseyou do wanna make sure you're using these
things as an assistant or a tool, notnecessarily to do all of the work for you.
(09:51):
But, using it for those types of thingsI've found to be extremely valuable.
So Chad, GPD for that I repurposed someof my content, so of course I'm using Opus
clip for that 'cause it's the best one.
In addition to that really.
Those are really the only twoin terms of my creator life.
Now I'm also using Claude andI'm also using Cursor because I'm
also building some software stuff.
(10:12):
But when it comes to, being acontent creator side of what I do
for that, just chat g and Opus clip.
Yeah I think chat, GPT isthe one that I use the most.
I found that perplexity is reallyinteresting because it's really good
at search and so I can be researchingor wanting to, I'm working on a course
right now and something I'm doing withon my tutorial YouTube channel is I'm
(10:34):
gonna be linking a bunch of coursesto some of my more popular videos.
And I found that to, to be successfulwith the one I've launched so far
and it's helping me basically.
Break down the course and the differentmodules, like you said, I have the
outline I've written myself, but it'sreally helped me by giving it that
outline and saying, Hey where arethe, where am I missing something?
Is there a module I'm missing?
And there was a couple where itshowed me for instance, I'm doing
(10:57):
a course on how to use AppleNotes, for basically just the full.
Gambit of utilizing AppleNotes and Apple reminders to
simplify the productivity space.
And it was like hey, there's these newfeatures with Apple Notes where it is
in tandem with Apple reminders and AppleCalendar, and I didn't have any of that.
And so it helped me get that to whereit's oh, okay, these are the things
that I'm missing in these things.
So I love to hear thatopus clip I've used before.
(11:19):
If you don't know what that is, ittakes long form content, breaks it
down into vertical short form content,and can do even more than that now.
It actually does the mid-tiervideo clips and it's growing.
I also really.
Like de script, I'm not sureif you've heard of that one.
It's a text base editor whereI can throw my videos into
or can throw my podcast into.
It can remove the fillerwords automatically.
It'll remove the gaps.
(11:39):
I still send my stuff to an audioeditor, but I'm getting closer and
closer to not really having to, becausethat tool really helps me with that.
So I love that.
Are there any prompts that you just.
You've created yourself and you'rewilling to share maybe not the full
prompt, I have one for thumbnails that Ithink are, you know that I've mentioned
here numerous times, but are there anyprompts that you use that have really
allowed you to get results beyond whatthe normal or average AI result would be?
(12:04):
In terms of gets betterresults than normal ai?
I am not sure.
I do have a folder full of prompts onmy computer, but in terms of, things
off the top of my head, I'm not sure.
But but I do absolutely have,prompts for thumbnails, I
prompts for content strategy.
I, and a lot of times when it comes tochat GPT specifically, I'll also just.
Talk to it in normal language.
So one of the things that that I'vefound very helpful, because, I'm trying
(12:27):
to learn a lot of coding right now, andthen I'll also think about this when
it comes to workflow or, have theseconversations when it comes to workflow
and when it comes to the content I'mpublishing and all of those things, and
learning about teaching, like all these.
Just other ideas like when I gointo town, 'cause I live out in the
country where I'm at and I've gotabout a, 20 to 30 minute drive, to
get to the nearest, civilization.
(12:48):
And one of the things thatI'll do is I will put Chad GPT
in voice mode and I'll just.
Brainstorm with it, like the wholeride there, the whole ride back.
And during those conversations, I'll betalking to it about, is there anything
that I might be missing about this?
Is there any way that I mightbe able to do this better?
Am I looking at this the right way?
If you were in my position, isthere, anything that you would
recommend to me about this?
(13:09):
Those types of things.
And then I'll just try to havenatural conversations with it and
just ask it, all the questions.
Now, of course, it is AI andAI does have errors in it and
sometimes it gets things wrong.
Don't wanna necessarily lean on it 100%,but it is just amazing for helping you be
able to identify things like one of thethings that I'm doing in my personal life.
That's crossing over to my greaterlife is is I'm making apps.
(13:30):
And as part of that, when youfirst start you don't really
know what you're doing at all.
But then you can starthaving these conversations.
You're like, okay, so when I'm makingthese I am, 'cause I'm using AI for it.
So I'm like, okay, whenI'm making these, I am.
Seeing these particularthings come up a lot.
So since I'm seeing these things comeup a lot, like these functions or
these structs or whatever, can youjust explain to me what that is and can
(13:51):
you explain to me why it's important?
Can you explain to me how to use it?
What's the case on, when to use it, whennot to use it, and things like that?
And you can also do thiswhen it comes to your videos.
So here's something interesting,for content creators.
So go into your high performing videosones that had a strong first 30 seconds.
Go and grab your transcript for that.
Drop it into chat, GPT, and just ask itwhat it thinks about that particular hook.
(14:13):
And then go and take your videos.
That had a rough time in that first30 seconds to where you just, you
just, we make mistakes, right?
But go do the same thing with videosthat you know, that did poorly in
that first 30 seconds to where youpretty much killed your retention.
And drop that into thereand see what it has to say.
I found the accuracy on chat, GPT gaugingwhat a good hook is to be extremely high.
And because of that.
(14:35):
You can also use chat GBT tohelp you be able to, write
better hooks for your videos.
So I'm not a huge fan.
I know people use it.
I even work with a tool calledTube Spanner that, that has a tool,
that is an AI script writing tool.
And I think things like that are okay,but I think that as a creator, part of
being a creator is creating something.
(14:55):
So because of that, I alwaysrecommend that people do
write their own, scripts, but.
Yeah, when you're writing your scriptsaying Hey, I think this is a great hook,
let me just get that second opinion.
And then drop it into, chatTPT just for those blind spots.
'cause it'll tell you, it'll saythings like, this part right here
where you said this it's a littlebit wordy and, people are likely to
tune out during this particular part.
(15:16):
So because of that you might wannatighten this up a little bit.
And those little things to wherein your brain you're like, Hey,
I think this might be good.
And then you just get that feedbackto where you may or may not take
the advice, but it just gives youthings to consider where then you
can go back on your intuition, yourunderstanding of your audience,
your understanding of what typicallyworks in your channel and all that.
And you can say, yeah, maybe I do wannatweak this based on what I know, or I.
(15:39):
I've done this plenty of times in termsof this same thing I'm getting ready
to do, so it's probably gonna be okay.
But but using it for, those types ofthings is also really powerful in my
opinion because it brings us full circleback to what we first started talking
about in terms of, just using it asan assistant, getting that additional
feedback, especially for people thatdon't have other content creators in
their lives that can look at what itis they're doing or they can bounce
(16:01):
ideas off of, or, those types of things.
So I'm gonna give you an example of acreator that might have emailed me as a
creator coach, and I'm gonna allow you togimme the answer that you would give them.
So let's play, playthis game a little bit.
A creator messages me and they said thisvideo is starting to get some traction
with the algorithm, but the CTR is awful.
(16:24):
So the click-throughrate is abysmal, right?
Like the packaging maynot be whatever it is.
Should you, should I change the thumbnail?
Should I change the title?
What advice would you give thiscreator, because I get this a lot.
I actually had an email come in thismorning with this exact question.
What would you tell that creator?
First I would tell them that thumbthat click through rate isn't
(16:45):
just based on your thumbnail.
Your click through rate isbased on the topic of the video.
It's based on the timing of, when youpublish that video, not necessarily
Monday through Friday, eight to,10 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM Not that
timing, but timing in terms of whenpeople are the most interested in
that particular piece of content.
But basically it comesdown to the topic itself.
It comes down to the timing.
(17:05):
It comes down to the thumbnail'sability to grab the attention of the
people that you are trying to, reachso that they can quickly and easily
identify that your content's aboutsomething that they might care about.
And then your title as well, in termsof, is, does that entire package make
somebody feel like this is a videothat I might wanna watch, or this is a
video that I can put in my watch later.
(17:27):
Or this is not a video that I wannawatch, or does it make the viewer
feel like, oh, I need to watch this.
And when it comes to your click throughrate it's important to remember that
sometimes your thumbnail's fine.
Sometimes your title's fine.
Sometimes you're just off on the topic.
Sometimes you're fine on the topic.
I. And your thumbnailor title are off, right?
(17:47):
So because of that it's important toconsider all of those things and start
looking into all of those things.
So the very first thing there wouldbe, okay, if it's a click-through
rate problem, then you've alreadylooked at the click-through rate
and you've already identifiedthat people aren't clicking on it.
So therefore sit back and lookat your thumbnail and say, okay,
if somebody that I was trying to.
(18:07):
Somebody, my target audience, if thisshowed up on their homepage, what exactly
about this thumbnail would help them ata glance identify that this has something
to do with something that they care about.
And then ask yourself when it comesto this thumbnail if that's the thing
that would help them grab attention.
Is there anything else that I'mgoing into thumbnail that would
actually distract them from that interms of I've made it way too busy.
(18:29):
I've got stuff all over the place.
I'm adding subscribe buttons and allthis other craziness to my thumbnail.
Is there anything that you're goingto distract people from that thing
that's gonna help them identify it?
I see this a lot in gaming where peoplewill use game imagery but everything that
is on top of the game imagery makes itto where you can't see the game imagery.
And it makes it hard for peoplethat are interested in that game
to be able to easily identify that.
(18:50):
Content is about that game inthe first place unless they
happen to read the title.
But if you notice on YouTube, thumbnailsare getting bigger and bigger.
So because of that, it's importantto make sure that do think of
that in terms of being a primaryway to grab people's attention.
But yeah, when it comes to that particularanswer, dusty I would tell them that,
it comes down to those things andbecause of that, they should consider.
(19:11):
The actual topic.
So if they are getting a bad clickthrough rate, the first thing I would
tell 'em actually is go into your trafficsources and tell me exactly what the
click through rate is for homepage,for suggested videos for YouTube
search, and then tell me where it isthat you're trying to get views from.
And then I would go through that wholeexercise that we just went through.
I. Yeah.
And then I would have them lookto make sure that other videos
(19:32):
have been published on the topic.
And if they haven't, I would havethem hop into Google Trends to see,
if the interest on that topic is onthe rise steady or on the decline.
I would have them just check intocommunities around that topic to
make sure this is something thatpeople are actively talking about.
That sort of thing for the topic itself,just so they can verify the topic itself.
And then when it comesto the timing, sometimes.
You can be the first person topublish a video, and YouTube doesn't
(19:53):
have a lot of inventory on that.
And even though the video is not thebest quality, even though you know your
thumbnail isn't that great, and yourtitle's not super compelling because
the topic is on point and the timingis right, you don't have a lot of
competition on that particular thing, andyour videos can blow up because of that.
So when it comes to, your clickthrough rate being down, there's just,
there's a lot of variables there.
So because of that, you have tobe able to sit back and look at.
(20:16):
Everything that's going on there, andmake sure that you do have it focused
on the viewer in terms of helpingthem identify it, and then secondary
also making sure it's it's compelling.
And then of course, all of that wrappedin or wrapped around a good topic.
Yeah, I've had videos like that wherethey didn't perform well initially.
I'll never forget, before COVIDI, I did one of the first full
(20:36):
Zoom tutorials and then COVID hit,and that video just went crazy.
And I look back at it and man,that video could have been so much
better, but 'cause of the timing, I.
Exactly like you said, that videoreally popped off because it was
just right place, right time.
But now knowing what I know therewould've been some certain changes
that, that I would have made.
We oftentimes thought, think about thepackaging being title, thumbnail, whatever
(20:59):
it is, but like you said, sometimesit is just timing and sometimes it is.
Maybe you're not answeringthe right question.
So if you're a business or infinance, whatever, now it's different.
If you're in gaming, maybe thegame's not as popular as you think,
or maybe it's not, at the peak ofwhere it needs to be or whatever.
There's so many things to considerother than just the thumbnail, right?
(21:19):
Because the timing does matter.
The relevancy does matter.
A few, if you, about a month ago, ifyou would've done a video on tariffs.
You know that you probably would'vegotten a lot more views as opposed to
doing it six to nine months ago, right?
Because the tariff has now become avery common word here in the States.
These are all things that wehave to understand and know.
What if it was the opposite of that?
(21:39):
Nick?
What if it was okay?
I'm getting a prettygood click through rate.
People are wanting to see what'sunderneath the cover of the book
here, but whenever they come tothe video, they're not watching.
A very long time the watch time.
And so we can talk about hooks, wecan talk about things like that.
What would you say to that person?
When it comes to your videos performingwell on YouTube, like everything
has to work across the board.
(22:01):
If you, I. Kind of drop the ball anywhere,then it can negatively impact the video.
Sometimes it can be okayand get you through.
But if you drop the ball anywherein the process, then you know it
can negatively impact the video.
So when it comes to audienceretention, you have a few things
that you have to think about.
One, you have to think, and thisis usually where people start,
is you gotta think about, okay,when somebody enters that video.
(22:21):
Then, what are they seeing?
What are they hearing?
What are you showing?
What are you telling them?
How's your story starting?
Is there music playing yes or no?
What's actually happening?
Right there.
And how do people respond to that?
But.
I recommend that people go a stepfarther back and they start thinking
about their packaging again, andthey start thinking, okay, people
are clicking on this at a high rate.
That means that they're interestedin how I've packaged this up, but the
(22:43):
video isn't meeting their expectations.
So if the video isn't meetingtheir expectations, then that means
that I didn't do a good job at mypackaging, because they're expecting
more out of this video than what itis that they're getting out of it.
So because of that, maybeI've, sensationalized this a
lot more than I should have.
And then when somebody clicks intothe video, they are, not getting
what they expected out of that video.
(23:05):
As a content creator, it's reallyimportant to make sure that you're
always thinking about the expectationthat your packaging, your thumb topic,
title, thumbnail create about the videoand a workflow tweak that you can do
that can help you increase the activitythat you're getting on your channel.
Regardless of, your size, if you're notdoing it this way, as long as your content
type, allows, this is, a lot of peoplewill make their videos and then they
(23:28):
will, after the video's completed, whilethey're uploading that video to YouTube,
they will open up Photoshop or whateverit is, they make thumbnails in, and then
they'll start, hammering away on thatthumbnail and they'll be like, okay, now
how am I gonna, represent this thumbnail?
What's a good title for this video?
And they'll start thinking about it.
Then if you.
Reverse that process.
And first you start thinking about,okay this is my video idea before
I commit to making this video idea,how can I package this up in a way
(23:52):
that's going to be effective forthe people that I'm trying to reach?
And how can I package this up in a waythat's gonna create the right expectation
for the video that I want to make?
And then from there, you keep workingon that part until you can be like,
okay, for the film, I'm gonna do this.
Or here's a couple options for meto do for the thumbnail and then
for the title, I'm gonna do this.
And with this thumbnail and with thistitle, based on the topic that they
express, there's a really good chancethat the person that sees this on their
(24:15):
homepage or search or suggested videos,wherever it is you're bringing 'em
in from that they're going to expect.
This when this video first starts,and then what The next step after
you figure out your packaging isto then go and script out or bullet
point or overall just make the video.
And the benefit that gives youis because you're considering the
entire viewer experience from themoment they see your content on
(24:39):
their homepage or suggested videos orsearch from the moment they see that.
All the way through clicking throughit and then what it is that you're
going to show them or share with them,as they're coming into the video.
And then from there, the restof the video content itself.
So that little workflow tweakcan make a really big difference.
And lemme give you an example.
So let's say that in the video idea stage,you're like, okay, I'm going phishing.
(25:02):
If you have a Phish channel, you'relike, okay, I'm going fishing and
since I'm going fishing I'm gonnamake some content while I'm there.
I've also made some videos of some otherareas of fishing and since I'm going here,
maybe I can put together a compilation ofsorts and talk about these other places.
'cause I all, I have all this footageand let me target a video on the
best phishing fishing locations in,I don't know, we'll say Florida.
In Florida.
(25:23):
And in that particular case, ifI, if that's gonna be the title.
Then when somebody comes into thatvideo, it would be okay to show drone
shots and to show some, like settingthe scene type of things for some
of these locations that you're goingto show, maybe as you're talking
underneath it or something like that.
But basically the focus is they wouldcoming in could, it would be okay having
(25:43):
drone shots and that kind of stuff.
Because in that case, they'reexpecting a video about.
These, cool locations and you're showinglike an overview of those locations.
Now, if you had a video and samething, you're going fishing, you're
like, okay, I'm gonna make a video.
If you start working on the packagingfirst and you're like, okay I also wanna
make a video about some fishing tips.
In that particular case,you're like, okay, what would
(26:04):
the thumbnail be for that?
What would the title be for that?
So this is gonna be, 10ways to catch more fish.
Just as rough example.
So since you're setting everything upthat way and you know it, then when
you go, fishing and you're making theactual video content, okay, when the
video first starts, I'm gonna tell 'em,as soon as they come into that video,
hey if you wanna catch more fish.
I'm gonna show you 10 different ways.
It's gonna help you catch,a lot more fish, right?
(26:25):
And then that way you're just meetingthem right there where they're at, right?
With that expectation, andyou're confirming that they
clicked on the right thing.
They're not being clickbait, anything like that.
And then you start gettinginto the content itself.
So when you reformat the way thatyou're approaching it it can make a
really big difference because you'releaning into the viewer expectation when
you're making the actual video content.
(26:47):
So all that makes sense, dusty.
It does make sense.
Sometimes we mislead the viewerand we get the wrong person.
A lot of times we, speaking ofphishing, no pun intended, we we
catch the wrong fish and we arenot actually they're not really.
What they came there for isnot in the video because we
misled them with the packaging.
So I love that.
Thank you for being that's why Ilove having conversations with you
(27:07):
'cause you're so in depth and havingexamples that are actually tangible
that we can think through really helps.
Creators make it applicableto, to their channel.
I wanna ask you this, we talked offair before we hit record about your
I guess you would call it a slightshift in, in your thought behind
vertical and short form content andeven the platforms outside of YouTube.
(27:28):
How has the shift toward shorts andvertical video and TikTok and everything
of that nature that file, format, content,format changed the creator economy
and even your opinion and viewpoint?
Let's talk about that for a minute.
I. How's it changed the creator economy?
That's a great question.
So when it comes to the creator economy,it's just given people more opportunity.
(27:50):
I think it's come at the expense ofcannibalizing some of the long form
content, because now where somebody mighthave chosen to go watch some long form
content, they'll open up TikTok instead,or they'll open up YouTube shorts instead.
So because of that I thinkthat, it probably, has had
an impact there, however.
I think it's great.
And the reason I think it's great is,and I didn't like it at first, I'll be
(28:12):
transparent, but the reason I think it'sgreat now is because it makes it easier
for people to make content because, eventhough you can do high production, I.
Vertical content.
Most people, don't, and it makes itto where somebody can be sitting in
a car telling a good story and theircontent can get as many, if not more
views than somebody that spends, $10,000on the video that they're making.
(28:34):
And I think that particular advantage is.
Substantial when it comes to peoplebeing able to tap into the opportunity
that all of these, platforms provideus in terms of income, growing,
personal brands, things like that.
So I think that it's just loweredthe barrier to entry so much
that that it makes content.
I. Making content accessible for almostanybody that has the courage to do it.
(28:57):
And because of that I think that a lotof people have through vertical content,
through, YouTube shopping affiliateprogram through tiktoks affiliate program.
And just from, getting ad rates ifthey get a lot of views on their
videos vertical content has changedpeople's lives in the same way that.
Long form content for, dusty, forus old school folks, the way that,
landscape content did that for us.
(29:18):
It's doing that for, awhole new group of people.
And because of that, I thinkit's absolutely fantastic now.
I know there's a lot of, bad content onthere and I know there's a lot of, things
when it comes to the algorithms of theseplatforms that I think that some of that
stuff is creating some unneeded negativityin the world because, psychologically
people do gravitate towards.
(29:38):
Doom.
If you open a video and they're like,oh my gosh, this thing's happening.
You just can't help but watch it.
And when you watch it, then thesystems are gonna be like, Hey, they
like this stuff and then they'rejust gonna throw more at you.
And because of that, I thinkthat it is causing, issues
related to that sort of thing.
But as a creator though I thinkit's a great opportunity because.
When it comes to long form content,and we talked about this before Dusty,
but when it comes to long form content,you have, you, not only do you have
(30:01):
to get really good at making videos,but you have to get really good at
the topics, like we just talked about.
And you have to get good atmaking thumbnails that not
just making a thumbnail, butmaking an effective thumbnail.
And that's hard.
In addition to that, you have toget good at making, nice titles
that will inform people or compelthem to click on your videos.
And, there's just a lot more involvedwhen it comes to long form content.
When it comes to vertical content.
(30:22):
You just show up in somebody'sface, they're sitting there, you.
Looking at their phones, scrollingthrough, and you just show up.
And when you show up, then youjust have to grab their attention.
You gotta be talking about somethingthat they care about or, grabbing
their attention in some other way.
And then you just have to get themthrough, as much of that video
as these platforms deem I. As asatisfactory experience for the viewer.
So I think it just makes iteasier for more people to enter
(30:44):
the world of content creation.
And I think that it's, expanded thecreator economy because of it, because
people are getting brand deals there.
People are, growing theirown personal brands.
They're selling their own products there.
Part of my thing, dusty, that I mentionedearlier is, part of my thing with
ramping up my vertical content productionis because I know it's necessary.
For the type of content that I makeit's, we're at that time now and I
(31:06):
think we've been there for a while.
I've just, I just haven't beenaggressively going after it.
But I think we're at that time now towhere, if you want to stay on top of it
and you wanna stay on top of people'sminds, that you gotta be CNM everywhere
because a lot of people are using.
They're watching long form content.
When that's appropriate forum.
They're watching short form content onYouTube and that's appropriate forum.
Some people are going over to TikTok,when that's appropriate forum.
(31:27):
Some people are hitting Instagram reelsand that's appropriate forum and so on.
So I think being able to tap intothat and be able to reach all of these
people through there, that you're eitherone already reaching or two would've
never ran into you ever if you didn'tmake content for those platforms.
I think it's just anadvantage that we have.
And in addition to that.
I was telling Dusty before the call, Iwent from making like one and we'll say
(31:50):
one and a half on average videos per weekto now, I'm publishing like 30 pieces of
content a week, and my goal by the endof this year is to be hitting a hundred.
And the whole thing with that makes iteasy when it comes to vertical content
is that you make one vertical video.
And you publish that onevertical video across everything.
And then when you publish that acrosseverything, you don't have to make, okay,
(32:12):
I gotta make a unique video for TikTok, Aunique video for YouTube shorts, a unique
video for Instagram, a unique video forFacebook, a unique video for Clapper.
You don't have to do that.
You get, you make onegood video and then you.
Publish that everywhere, andyou can do that every day.
If are, aggressively, trying to do itand you don't need productions dusty
set looks nice, my set looks nice, wehave our fancy cameras and microphones,
but you don't need this stuff, right?
(32:33):
Like, when it comes to verticalcontent, really any content
it just has to be good enough.
That the quality of the contentisn't a distraction for the
people that are consuming it.
So for example, if you watch a videoand the audio's bad or something,
you're like, eh, so something alittle bit weird about this, right?
And you'll tune out.
But as long as the content's goodenough to where there's nothing that's
distracting to the viewer, then it'sgood enough to get views, right?
(32:54):
It's good enough to add value to peopleto where you know, they'll enjoy it
and they'll keep coming back for more.
Tens of thousands of people fortunatelytune into this podcast every week, and
a lot of them are really confused abouthow they should format their channel.
Should it be one long form threeshorts a week, should it be two
(33:15):
long forms, five shorts a week?
If you are making a recommendation toa creator, not necessarily someone just
starting off, but just in general onYouTube, what would you suggest they do?
Because I'm with you.
I'm leaning more and more as time goes on.
That short form is just anotherway people can discover you.
(33:35):
Short form is just another wayfor people to, again, maybe find.
Who you out, who you are and thenend up listening to your long form
stuff or podcasts from in, in my case.
So what would be your just flatrecommendation for creators as a whole?
Obviously it might be tailoredspecifically a little different if
you're in a different niche or spaceor whatever, but just in general,
(33:57):
like what are your recommendationsnow in 2025 and going forward?
My recommendation is goal first, right?
So goal first.
So figure out what you're trying to do.
So if you're making content there'sprobably, if you're making content
and you're into it enough that you'relistening to this show there's probably
something that you're wanting in return.
If you are a part-timecreator, that's fine.
(34:18):
But you're probably wanting something.
You're wanting either to, ultimatelyturn this into some type of side
income or maybe a full-time income.
You're wanting to use this to toposition yourself professionally.
Maybe you're wanting to use this togenerate leads or sales in some way.
Step number one is to figureout exactly what that thing is.
So if you don't know it yet spend sometime thinking about it because the way
(34:39):
that you do content can change basedon what you're trying to accomplish.
For example, if you're tryingto generate leads in sales.
Then in that particular case, I wouldbe doing vertical content because
somebody doesn't have to, click on it.
It takes less effort.
And as long as you're, resonatingwith people, then it's really easy
to bring attention to the productsand services that you have to offer.
Two is I would also make searchbased YouTube long form content
(35:01):
that solves the problems of thepeople that you are serving.
The reason that I would do that isbecause it's easy and it's easy to
get attention through YouTube search.
If you if you're going for arecommendation play, which is where
the quick wins come from, 'cause that'swhere most of the views are on YouTube.
But if you're going for a recommendationplay like you're competing with the
best YouTubers on the platform thatyour viewers are watching, right?
(35:22):
So because of that, the competitionis just fierce when it comes
to recommendation system.
You have to make really good contentin order to get attention in the
recommendation system at leastsubstantial attention when it comes to.
Vertical content.
It's or sorry, when it comes tosearch content it's different there
because now you're just competingfor those particular search queries.
And of course, if you targetsearch, then you can also get
(35:43):
recommendation traffic as well.
But you can, if you're targetingsearch intentionally, then you
can show up in YouTube search aslong as your videos compete there.
You can show up in YouTube searchand all the other text, textual
search engines, and now chat.
GPT is also showing videos also.
So when it comes to that sort of thing.
I've had plenty of times whereI'm typing in something, trying
(36:04):
to learn about something and chat.
GPT will recommend one video.
So if your video ends up beingpositioned well in Google and in
YouTube, then it can also show upas the only option in chat GPT.
So because of that, that can alsobe really advantageous if you're
trying to generate leads or sales.
If you're trying to generatesubscribers on your YouTube
channel, you're like, you know what?
I don't care about any of that, Nick.
(36:24):
I'm just trying to bea big content creator.
I just want a lot of followers.
In that case, verticalcontent all day long.
And the reason you do that is becauseone, it's easier to get people to
subscribe when it comes to vertical.
I'm not gonna say easier, but justat scale you're, it's just easier
to get in front of a lot more peoplewhen it comes to vertical content.
'cause you can justproduce so much, so easily.
So because of that, if I wasjust going for subscribers and
(36:45):
that was it, then I would justfocus mostly on vertical content.
If I'm trying to create a personalbrand, I would do everything.
Like I currently do I would publish longform content on whatever cadence you want.
I would publish, I woulddo regular live streams.
Same with leads and sales.
Also, because you live streams, helpyou demonstrate your expertise help
you answer questions, help you betterunderstand the people that you're serving.
(37:07):
Yeah, so I would do long form live streamsand vertical content all over the place.
So as far as live streams go, what if I'mworried that there's nobody gonna show up?
What if I have a smaller channel,I just got accepted and I'm just
now able to do live streams?
Is that something that is the waythat I suggest it and to my clients is
that it's a good learning experiencefor them to get better and better at
sharing their proposition, the thingsthat they're trying to share with their
(37:31):
audience and get to know them better.
Even if there's just two orthree people in the chat.
These are people that are.
In love with what they're doing.
So what are your recommendations,because you are big on live streaming.
You're, you've been a proponentof it for years now, we've
talked about it on this show.
Any your opinions changed on that?
Or are you just even more bullish on that?
I'm all in on live streams, especiallywith all this AI content and everything.
(37:52):
I'm like heavy on live streams interms of the importance of people
learning how to do live streams.
Content dependent.
Of course.
If I was doing like Entertainmentchannel, probably not.
But if I'm teaching people somethingor if I have a business I'm trying to
drive, like leads and sales, I wouldbe live streaming like all the time.
So when it comes to live streams,the reason that I'm such a big
fan of, oh, first, let me back up.
We don't need to talk about the reasons.
(38:13):
Let's talk about the solution there.
So you asked me what if somebodydoesn't have people hanging
out in their live stream?
So what I recommend is if youare starting to live stream is.
Do a live stream that doesn'trequire audience participation.
So I did this experiment on my channelthis is about two years ago now, and on
that experiment, basically every Saturday,my brother Dee and I, we have a live
(38:35):
stream that we go live for three hoursstraight and we answer viewer questions.
So we don't know what we're gonnatalk about before the stream starts.
Stream starts, and then questionsstart coming in, and then we
start answering questions.
So that's great.
In our position because when we startthe stream, we have people, that are
like waiting with their questions.
But even sometimes then if I clearthe form too late or something
like that, before the stream,even, with the viewership that
(38:56):
we have, it might still take sometime for the questions to queue up.
But if you're just starting, youmight not be able to do a q and a
session like that because you mightnot have all the participants.
So because of that, youhave to do something else.
So one of the things that I did on mychannel and this was really effective.
Is I had a weekly show that I didfor a year where all I did was every
(39:19):
Friday, 'cause I stay up with YouTubenews and stuff like that anyway.
'cause it's part of my, work.
So what I would do is every FridayI would have a YouTube creator news.
And I would go live and Iwouldn't interact with the chat.
I wouldn't, I wouldn'ttry to, get engagement.
I wouldn't do any of those things.
I would just be focused on, thisis what's happening this week and
this is what you need to know about.
And then I would shut it down.
(39:40):
So instead of it being a three hourstream, or a one hour stream, or even
a 30 minute stream that a lot of peoplethink that they have to do when it
comes to live streaming, some of thestreams were like eight minutes long.
Some of the streams are 15 minutes long.
I think the longest one is 30minutes, because at the end of
that one, I did do a q and a.
'cause it was a big deal with YouTubereleasing music and stuff like that.
And there were a lot ofweird things about it.
But that particular experiment,those particular live streams were
(40:03):
some of the highest viewed livestreams that I have on my channel.
They generated the most revenue on thechannel when it comes to live streams.
And the whole thing there is that it was.
On topic, on trend content in termsof, the things that were happening
on YouTube, and I was delivering anactual service through that content
of keeping content creators up todate with, things that matter to them.
(40:25):
So because of that, what I recommendis that if you don't have anybody
hanging out, offer a service.
Maybe it's news of your industry.
Maybe it's, something else, maybe it'slike a tip or something like that, where
every week you make a piece of contentlive, and then as soon as that live
stream's complete you, you shut it down.
So you don't have to do it for 30 minutes.
You don't have to do it for 45 minutes.
(40:45):
You just say, okay, for this livestream, I'm gonna talk about this.
While I'm growing my audiencehere, I'm gonna talk about this.
And then as soon as it's done,I'm just gonna end it right.
And then when you're talking about it,you start it with a hook just like you
would do in a piece of video content.
And then you end it with a next stepin terms of, hey, if you wanna learn
more about whatever this thing isthat I'm talking about, you can click
on this video on the screen here.
(41:07):
And then by doing that, you'recreating more content for the channel.
You are going to.
Slowly start building a liveaudience as people find it
and they find value out of it.
And then from there, once you getthat audience build up, then you
can go and, you can start doing, thethings that do require a little bit
of participation from the viewers.
Other things that aregreat for that is demos.
Like for example, if Dusty wantedto go live and show people how to
(41:27):
use a piece of software, he coulddo that in a blink of an eye, right?
And with there somebody doesn'thave to be in there, right?
He could just do that all by himselfand it would be just like he was
making a video or he could havea thousand people in there and it
would all be pretty much the samein terms of how he's, interacting.
Now.
Another thing when it comes to livestreaming to no one that I think is
a really important thing to consider.
Is you have the different formatsof content that you put out to give
(41:48):
yourself the best chance of getting areturn on the investment of time that
you're doing with your live stream.
But another thing that can bereally advantageous is cover up
everything that is audience based.
So you know, all of these streamingplatforms and everything they
have their comment section.
Take post-its and cover that up.
Or stretch it out towhere it's off screen.
If you have multiple monitors if theyhave a live counter on it and it shows
(42:11):
how many people take a post-it andput it over that, and then livestream,
imagine that there's a thousand peoplewatching in livestream like that.
And then what that's gonna do for you.
Is, that's going to make youstart looking at your live
stream through a different lens.
So instead of looking at it like a lotof people will do, this is the type
of feedback I get in this situationis is people will be like I don't
(42:31):
have a lot of people hanging out.
So because of that, it doesn't reallyhave to be like, that good or it
doesn't have to be, I don't haveto stay that focused or whatever.
I'll just hang out until people comein and that's the wrong approach.
If you want people to enjoyit, then it has to be good.
And then as people find it on the replay.
Then they gotta be like, oh,okay, this is something I wanna
go participate in next time.
Let me make sure I subscribe, turnon notifications and all that.
(42:51):
So stream there's a thousandpeople watching, or there's going
to be a thousand people watching.
'cause you might get that on the replayor the next live stream that you do.
If you start putting out, goodlive streams, you might, start
growing that type of viewership.
Because of that stream, like everybody'swatching, even when nobody's watching and
like Dusty mentioned before, use this asan opportunity to learn how to stream.
(43:13):
While you don't have that many peoplewatching, because when it comes to live
streams, you're gonna have tech problems.
You're gonna start your streams and you'regonna forget to turn on your microphone
or you're gonna forget to unmute it.
Sometimes you're gonnaforget what you're saying.
You're gonna have allthese variables at play.
And failing with those things when youdon't have a lot of people watching
is gonna feel a lot better than, whenyou have similar things happen, when
(43:35):
you have a lot of people watching.
I I love that I am bullishon live streaming as well.
It's something that I'm going to startimplementing more and more in the content
that I create on, on, on all differentverticals, even on the tutorial side,
as well as my YouTube education side.
That's hanging off mypodcast, so I do believe that.
That streaming is a big deal, and I wouldconsider it one of the best ways to,
(43:59):
number one, not only get video ideas,because think of all the free video ideas
you're getting from the comments, right?
When you do have people that areengaging as well as, we didn't even
talk about what it does for watchtime, so if you're trying to, yeah.
Partnered or whatever.
Even on your channel, Nick, yourlive streams, after you publish
them are getting three to five to10,000 views, which again, that's.
(44:19):
Hundreds of hours of watch time.
And and then there's themonetization ways that, you can be
accepted to get super chats and sopeople are giving you donations.
And so there are just a number of waysin which it is one of the pillars in
what I would consider it to be one of thebest brand building methods on YouTube.
So I'm so glad that you were able toreally, flesh that out for us because
(44:40):
sometimes I have a hard time 'causeI don't do it as much as you do and
you're living that each and every week.
Dusty, let's talk whenit comes to, go ahead.
When it comes to live streaming, oneof the things that happens to me in
terms of the importance of live streams,when I'm out in the world, right?
And I have somebody, run into meand they're like, Hey, are you Nick
from YouTube when that happens?
Usually the thing that follows afterI say that I am, they'll say they
(45:02):
watch me on YouTube and then they'llgo, man, I love that show you and
your brother do on the weekend.
And then, if I'm at conferences, peoplewill be like, oh man, love that show
you and your brother do on the weekend.
It's rare that somebodytalks about the videos.
People talk about the live streams a lot.
And the thing is when it comesto that, I believe, and I could
be wrong on this but the reasonI think that happens is because.
(45:25):
When it comes to livestreams you can't edit it.
It can't be perfect.
It's a more human experience.
When you're making video content you mightedit out those parts where you're like,
oh yeah, I said something stupid there.
Or you might edit out that part whereyou're like, eh, it probably, didn't sound
right, or whatever the thing is, and youtry to make everything this like nice,
polished experience so that it makes youlook good, because we're all afraid of,
looking bad in front of other people.
But when it comes to live streams.
(45:46):
You don't have that, you don'thave the option to be like,
Hey, I'm just gonna edit.
Technically you can edit itout, but most people don't.
So like, when you are live, all ofthese nuances of yourself come out.
And I think that, that helps peopleconnect to you as a person instead of
just connecting to you as a video creator.
Just because of all of those nuances.
And you also, sometimes you'll go offtrack where you'll be talking about
(46:08):
something and then you'll be like, ohyeah, by the way, that somebody will
mention a movie or something like that.
And you'll talk aboutthat for a few minutes.
And it just lets people into all ofthese different sides of yourself that
they might not have ever known if youwere just publishing video content.
And I think that's extremely powerful,especially when it comes to being a
business owner, especially when itcomes to generating leads and sales for
anything is that human connection thatpeople get and that they can connect
(46:30):
with you, which then will ultimatelyconnect to the products that you have.
Yeah, I would always get theoccasional, oh are you dusty?
Are you, do you do the guides on YouTube?
I would get that occasionally, but whenit really started was when I did the
podcast and the podcast got more popular.
People would always say to me,they would say, oh you're dusty.
You do the YouTube show.
And then now that I dovideo, they actually see my.
(46:50):
Face and not just hear my voice.
And that combination hasreally helped me and my brand.
When I'm onboarding people into mycoaching program or bringing them into
the Creator's community group on myDiscord server and the mastermind call,
it's really resonated well with creators.
And I think live streamingdoes the same thing.
The final question I wanna ask you, 'causewe are getting close to the hour mark,
kind of 45 minutes to the hour mark andI do like to keep it around that time.
(47:13):
If you could give creatorsone piece of advice.
To prepare or to get ready forthe new world that we're in.
And it is changing.
It is evolving faster than ever.
We talked about artificial intelligence.
We talked about live streaming.
We talked about all the different formattypes of short form and long form.
What would be your advice to these people?
(47:36):
Use the tools that are available.
Because all this stuffis changing rapidly.
Google just dropped their VOthree and it's just mind blowing.
The advancements that have been madejust in video over the last, two
years and what's going to happen is.
As that technology gets cheaper and evenbetter than it already is people are going
to be using that to compete with you.
(47:57):
So if people are using that to makecontent that competes with you and people
are using that to take attention fromyour videos, then I think this is if
you can't beat 'em, join 'em scenario.
I believe that you should.
Start, of course, make sureyou're learning all this stuff
and staying on top of it.
But two, you need to be using thesetools in your workflow because if
(48:17):
you're not, then you're putting yourselfat a disadvantage from those people
that are from the people like me.
Like I save myself hours every singleweek by using, these tools and right.
Because of that, it's allowed me to beable to start uploading daily vertical
content across, a bunch of differentplatforms and that whole thing.
(48:39):
'cause I'm, 'cause that's alla work in progress as we're
having this conversation.
That is going to end up applying to myYouTube channel, it's going to end up
applying to other, aspects of, my, my workand people that aren't using this stuff.
They're, they're gonna have a hardertime and it's gonna be harder for
them to compete with the scale.
That that is, publishing a lot of content.
(48:59):
So because of that, I justencourage you to hang in there.
You got this right?
I don't want this to sound doomand gloom because it's not.
But I just think it's important thatyou, I. Everybody just sees where we're
at right now and you're like, Hey Iremember when the internet first came out.
I'm that old and because of that,I know that there's a lot of people
that's ah, it's not with the internet.
That's stupid.
That's not gonna catch on now.
(49:20):
We can't live without it.
And I think that AI's in a similarsituation to where there's people
that are like anti AI or they justdon't understand how capable it is.
I had a conversationwith a friend of mine.
He still thinks it can't make hands,but but I think people are just,
they just need to be using thesetools to give themselves the best
possible advantage that they can.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that you don't wanna be theperson that is just, get off my lawn.
(49:44):
We're not gonna be that person.
You wanna be the person that is engagedand yes, you want to be wary, you
want to understand the rules of it.
You don't want to be thatperson that just relies on.
AI for everything, right?
You definitely don't wanna be the personthat it gets left behind because there
will be creators that lean into this.
And we saw this with the internet,we saw this with cryptocurrency.
(50:05):
There will be the toppercentage of people.
And you might, could be that if you'rewilling to learn, if you're willing
to engage, if you're willing to pivotand make it applicable to wherever
and however you're creating content.
So Nick, this has been an awesome.
Conversation.
Likewise, I love having you on this show.
I'm sure we'll have you and Deeback on in December this year as
we always do, looking into 2026.
(50:26):
And I appreciate your time andif you're looking to get in touch
with Nick, I'm gonna have allof his links in the show notes.
It's Nick Niman over on YouTube andin that bio there he'll have a link,
he's creating apps, he's got CreatorMix, which is music for creators.
He is got all kinds of stuff.
And so I'm gonna put that one commonlink and you'll be able to check out.
Everything that he has tooffer for you as a creator.
So Nick, thanks again for joining in thisweek, and we'll talk to you next time.
(50:49):
That's a wrap on this week's episodeof the YouTube Creator Hub podcast.
Thanks again to Nick forjoining me this week.
He is an amazing friend anda wonderful content creator.
If you're looking to growyour YouTube channel, you
need to be subscribed to Nick.
Follow him on all the socials.
And I'll have all ofthat in the show notes.
Don't forget that I do offer one-on-oneYouTube coaching where I sit down with
(51:10):
you for 30 minutes to an hour, dependingon what your time allows, and we just
do a deep dive into your channel.
Also, we have the Creator's CommunityGroup where you get an exclusive,
extra podcast episode every week.
You get access to our monthly mastermindcalls and the Discord server where
you can chat with wonderful creatorsall throughout the week as well as.
Past guests of the show.
And if you would like, you can followme over on our email newsletter,
(51:32):
the Entrepreneur's Minute, if you'relooking to grow your online business.
It's a behind the scenes look of whatit takes and things that I'm learning
throughout the week and failures that I'mgoing through and things of that nature.
So if that sounds interesting to you,you can click the link and subscribe
to that for absolutely free of charge.
And don't forget, wherever and howeveryou're consuming this podcast, subscribe.
That's free as well.
(51:52):
So if you're listening, subscribe.
If you're watching onYouTube, do it there as well.
Thanks again.
Talk to you next week.
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