May 16, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of the YouTube Creators Hub Podcast, we dive deep into the world of content creation with Joanna Fowler, Head of Talent at Shine Talent Group. Joanna shares her journey from being a YouTube creator to becoming an expert strategist at one of the leading influencer talent agencies. We discuss the importance of using both long-form and short-form content, strategies for building a strong community, and effective monetization techniques. Joanna also provides practical insights on storytelling, engagement, and the role of AI in content creation. Whether you're a budding YouTuber or an established creator, this episode is packed with invaluable advice to help you take your channel to the next level.
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About Joanna:
Joanna Fowler, Head of Talent at Shine Talent Group, is a former creator turned YouTube expert and now Head of Talent at one of the industry's top influencer talent agencies (Shine Talent Group).
At Shine, Joanna oversees a team of tale
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
First, I would say it's good toutilize both long form and short form.
(00:04):
I like, like when I see a talentusing both and growing in both ways.
Partly because right now there is a lotof growth opportunity with short and yes,
there are brand opportunities with short.
But if you, yes, it's work.
It takes a lot of consistency forlong form, but the payout is so huge
once you have an established channel.
Hello and welcome to this week's episodeof the YouTube Creators Hub Podcast, where
(00:27):
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Talk with them about strategy, talkwith them about how they make money
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(00:49):
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(01:33):
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(01:55):
Now let's jump into thisweek's conversation.
Hello everyone, and welcome tothis week's conversation on the
YouTube Creators Hub podcast.
I'm joined today by Joanna.
Fowler, she is from Shine Talent Group.
She's actually head ofTalent at Shine Talent Group.
She's a former creator, turned YouTubeexpert, and now Head of Talent, as I
mentioned, at one of the industry'stop influencer talent agencies.
(02:18):
And again, the name of thatagency is Shine Talent Group.
Joanna, how are you doing today?
Great.
How are you?
Really good.
Looking forward to this conversation.
I have on creators and podcastersand people who are on Instagram and
TikTok, but to have someone likeyourself who's behind the scenes as
far as a director of talent at one ofthe top agencies, it's gonna be really
interesting to hear your perspectives.
(02:39):
So before we get too far aheaddown the road, I do want to ask
you, give me your origin story.
YouTube, how did you get into this?
I really stumbled into it, so I wouldconsider myself one of the OG bloggers.
So I had four kids, including twins,and I was trying to share my story
with other moms and that blew up.
And then I hit a point where I feltlike I couldn't tell my story very well.
(03:02):
I needed to do a day in thelife and show more about how
I manage everything as a mom.
So I just took a stab at YouTube andit took off right away, and then it.
Morphed into lifestyle, home declutteringparenting for quite a few years.
Yeah, so then I started to traveland speak at conferences to teach
other creators about YouTubeand who are established on other
(03:26):
platforms, but how to move theircontent storytelling on YouTube.
And that's when I realized I really loved.
The other side.
I really love the strategy side andhelping other people become the star.
So I like to consider myself aretired creator now on the other
side, helping other people grow theirplatforms and tell their story online.
So tell me exactly what you do with yourtitle being what it is at Shine Talent.
(03:49):
What exactly do you do day to day?
So First Shine is based outof Toronto, LA, and the uk.
So we are growing rapidly, yetwe really conduct ourselves
still as a boutique agency.
So we keep our rosters small and it's somuch more than just talent management.
We help build brands.
We have a literary agent, we developproducts, and we really look at
(04:11):
the big picture, which I love.
So my role, I'm.
Based outta the Toronto area.
So I'm the head of talent in Canada.
We all work together as a team, soI manage a team of talent managers.
I have a small roster myself that Imanage, and I also provide a lot of
strategy for our talent and our team.
So on a day to day, let's sayyou get up in the morning and
(04:33):
you go to work, what does a day,a typical day look like for you?
Is it a lot of emails back and forth with.
Talent that you currentlyhave in your roster?
Is it trying to do, talent acquisition?
What does that look like?
It's mostly meetings, which I love.
I love to connect with peopleand come up with ideas and pitch.
So it's either with meetings with myteam, so my talent management team,
(04:57):
helping them navigate with theirtalent, the opportunities there.
It is also in a lot of meetingswith agencies and brands pitching
my own talent or other talent.
With Shine, and also meetings withmy own talent, which would be just
keeping them up to date strategy.
And then I would be doingstrategy calls as well.
I do have an associate who helps me.
(05:18):
There are a lot of emails and there'sa lot of negotiating and pitching
and everything, but I wouldn't beable to do it without them as well.
And I assume a little bit of whatyou do is helping your talent.
Acquire brand deals and monetizationfor their channel outside of
the YouTube partner program.
And so we'll certainly get into thatas we go through this conversation.
But what does one of thosecalls look like with one of your
(05:39):
talent with a creator on YouTube?
What does that normally consist of?
You mentioned strategy.
How do those calls look?
Do they come at you with a bulleted listof things they want to go over or do you
analyze and audit the channel beforehand?
Or is it a little bit of both?
A little bit of both.
I do a quick audit beforehand,typically, but I also really like to
go into the meeting, just hearing fromthem, hearing what their goals are.
(06:02):
Often it's a conversation about postingconsistently, because as we know, that's
the number one thing with YouTube.
Whether they're posting a lot ofshorts, but they're not exploring
long form, we would talk about.
What that would look like or vice versa.
And then it's even looking at whatvideos are working, what aren't.
Maybe it's the SEO, so howthey're titling their videos.
(06:22):
So we'll go in different routesdepending on where I can see
that they could have support.
But we, I'd love to dig into thatand just have a look at what's
working, what's not, how, what wouldbe attractive to brands as well.
What looks differentnow in 2025 than it did.
Five, 10 years ago, however longago it was that when you were
(06:44):
creating on YouTubes, what's changed?
What are the different buzzwordsand the things that, that
you find yourself going over?
You mentioned the consistencyand things like that.
What else is there?
This is what I love about YouTubeis that it is so consistent.
So there's so much that's the same.
That's 10 years ago.
That's pick your day and stick to it.
And to know how to tell your story.
(07:05):
The types of videosare typically the same.
Yes, there's some new nichescoming in and everything, but
the big one would be shorts.
Short form.
That is the new one that has come in,and we see a lot of growth with that.
So that would be the main one.
There's other features that YouTube have.
Has brought in, but that's somethingthat, especially when I'm trying to give
strategy to a talent who maybe has growntheir platforms on TikTok and Instagram
(07:29):
and they want to also then start growingon YouTube that's my biggest selling
point, is that Instagram and TikTok andother platforms can be frustrating because
the algorithm is constantly changing.
But from my own experience and whatI've watched is overall YouTube is
so consistent and there's really.
A direct formula how to grow on YouTube.
(07:51):
So let's, obviously, we're notgonna talk about the entire formula,
but can we do A-T-L-D-R of theformula of what's working right now?
Like when you get a new client or you'rebringing someone on, or you're pitching
your services, what does that package looklike for people listening to this show
who are thinking as they're listening?
(08:11):
I'd love to know that formulaor why isn't it working for me?
Or, I'm not seeing the growth.
A lot of my coaching clients, I'll haveone call with them and they expect to
make the changes and come back on thenext call, and it just automatically,
they're viral and they're the next Mr.
Beast, but that's justnot how this thing works.
So can you just talk about that formulaa bit and just how you break it down?
Absolutely.
(08:31):
So first I would say.
It's good to utilize bothlong form and short form.
I like, like when I see a talentusing both and growing in both ways.
Partly because right now there is a lotof growth opportunity with shorts and
yes, there are brand opportunities withshorts, but if you, yes, it's work.
It takes a lot of consistency forlong form, but the payout is so huge.
(08:53):
Once you have an established channel,the formula would definitely include.
Knowing what your pillars are.
So are you And I do work most,we're bringing in more people with
our team that focus on gaming andstreaming and different niches.
But my bread and butter and what Shinehas generally focused on mostly over
the years is beauty home lifestyle.
(09:15):
So I really like to look at thepillars and is it, and cycle
through what you're doing.
So are you doing, chatty video firstor storytelling, and then vlogs.
Is it a declutter or a groceryhall, that type of thing.
A, a get ready with me.
So there are those typical videosand you can branch out from there.
But I do like when I see themcycling through and I think that's
(09:38):
a really good formula as much as.
Series can be, I sometimes steerpeople away from them, or I say
batch create first, then post.
Because it is a lot of work andit can sometimes wear people down.
A lot of people don't finish series.
So I like more for them to knowwhat works and then they do that.
If say you're sick and you're supposedto post every Wednesday, I always
(10:00):
say, still pick up the camera, talkto camera for two minutes, talk
about, oh, I've been sick this week.
Post it.
Just get something up.
And sometimes that type of rawvideo can really resonate with your
following, depending on the channel.
A lot of it does not needto be overproduced it.
It more needs to be about thatconnection with your following.
And then there needs to be thatnarration or storytelling piece.
(10:22):
So if we're looking at a vlog, youwant to make sure that you are moving
through narration or storytellingto then some B-roll, and then maybe
it's more storytelling and then amontage you're giving your audience.
Breaks, you're using music anddifferent pieces to tell that story.
I also like it when it's not so broad.
(10:44):
So if you're doing a vlog thatyou're filming throughout a
week, is there something that youcan touch base on a few times?
Maybe it's some trying out some newmakeup, or you're putting in a garden
and you're circling back to that.
Another great formula, and here'ssome of my YouTube tips, is to
make sure that your title is very.
SEO Friendly.
So you're titling your YouTubevideo, great, SEO friendly, but
then your thumbnails that secondopportunity to catch someone's eye.
(11:07):
So when all of everything comes up,once you've searched, that's your second
opportunity to maybe give it a secondtitle and some really eye catching
thumbnail imagery that can pull people in.
Another tip for growing onYouTube would be to add.
Links to your own videos in yourdescription or other YouTubers because
(11:27):
YouTube likes to reward anyone who staysin YouTube and that will really, that
can help boost you in the algorithm.
How does somebody getbetter at storytelling?
I think it has.
I think if you're focusing on what youknow, it can start to come naturally.
You have to also know that thebeauty of YouTube is you can edit.
So just let it flow.
Start showing pieces ofyour life, tell your story.
(11:49):
And also it could be something wheremaybe you are a beauty creator and
you're doing a Get ready with me.
But think of some specific story.
And again, don't go too broad.
Maybe pick a piece of it out andit can be something that you can
pull apart and tell and share more.
And also listen to what.
Is in the comments, what yourfollowers are saying, and that
(12:09):
will guide you into what they wantto see more and hear more about.
But I, it does take some time to get morecomfortable, but I, as long as you're
sticking with what you know or your ownstories, I feel like it's more organic
and it will come really naturally.
Yeah, I feel storytelling.
I was talking to a client this morningand he was saying that he just got
done reading a couple of books onstorytelling, and he felt like it was,
(12:30):
the thing that came the most unnaturalto him was to be a storyteller.
And I think that one of the thingscreators can do is, like you
said, just turn the camera on.
And even if you don't postit, just talk to the camera.
Get better at just the fluidity of beingable to speak to the camera as if you're
speaking to your audience and community.
And I wanna tail into that.
Talking about community, howimportant do you and the agency
(12:53):
you work for consider community?
Because there's a big crop, rising cropof faceless YouTube channels with ai
and they're not really community based.
They're more based on search or virality.
And although some of them have communitiesthat are built around them, they're
niched communities, whatever they may be.
How important.
Is that, especially for those peoplethat are, possibly coming from Instagram
or TikTok or Twitch or whatever, andthey're coming to the YouTube space.
(13:16):
So as far as community building goes, whatare your thoughts and strategies on that?
Yeah, it's definitely very importantand you really need to think ahead about
how you will be partnering with a brand.
So you want an engaged community.
You want to build trust.
These faceless.
Channels.
They might have affiliate links andthat could work for them, and that
could be the way they monetize.
(13:37):
But if you're looking to reallyhave an interactive brand
partnership, you need to have thatrelationship with your following.
And I always like to think about it tooas think about it as if you're sitting
down and having a cup, a coffee with them.
So to read the comments andmake sure that you're engaging
that engagement is so important.
Also know that yes.
If you're moving from Instagram, sayto YouTube, some people will come
(14:00):
to YouTube, but you're also goingto be building a very likely, a very
different community within YouTube.
Organically.
I like to be very strategicabout content, so where is your
piece of content originating?
Then how can you use allof your other platforms?
Are you going to have a long form video?
And YouTube and then have shorts,cutdowns or complimentary videos
(14:23):
to go with it that then you canalso put on Instagram and TikTok.
Are you showing something on onInstagram and saying, I'm telling the
longer story, or I'm showing the full.
Thing on YouTube, move over there.
So really think about how peoplewould move and human behavior.
And just to touch on storytelling,again, I wanna say that anyone who's
(14:43):
nervous or finding that storytelling'shard again, don't forget that
music and editing is your friend.
So you can tell a story and you canchange the tone of a story by the type
of music that you pair with it, or theB roll that you're showing during it.
You can make a story so much moreinteresting with the magic of editing.
It just adds break breaks inthe action, and I listen to
(15:07):
a lot of podcasts on YouTube.
I think that's one of the newerways in the past few years that
people are consuming YouTube contentis these long form videos like
what you and I are doing today.
This conversation will be around 30to 35 minutes long, and some of my
episodes are even longer, and someof the content that I consume from
some of my favorite podcasts are.
Multiple hours.
(15:27):
So I think that we're learningthat any way we can break it up.
Now, you don't wanna do too much.
There is something to be said aboutdoing too much, but breaking it up
with a bit of B roll or a bit of musicor whatever it may be, to give that
visual of what it's gonna be about.
I, I just, I love that.
I'm glad that you mentioned that.
Obviously people are.
Not necessarily paying you, but they'regetting a, you're getting a percentage
(15:48):
from your agency, so there has tobe benefit to going with the agency.
So let's talk about monetization now.
How are you helping creators get money?
How are you helping them findmonetization buckets for their content
on YouTube and what are the variousways that you're doing that now?
Absolutely.
So it's mostly through brand partnerships.
We do explore, like I said, brandbuilding in other ways too, but.
(16:09):
For YouTube specifically, itwould be brand partnerships.
And the way that Shine works is wealways start with a trial agreement.
So you trial us, we trial you, andthen we move into the exclusive time.
And we're always very careful and wantto, so it's very much creators first.
So if we see that not many leadsare coming in and not many pitches
(16:30):
are landing for whatever reason,and sometimes it can just be a.
A growth period and things like that.
We will say, it doesn't make senseright now for you to have management,
but it makes a ton of sense togo once you're growing and things
are happening to go to an agency.
Because as a creator it can be avery lonely job, and suddenly you
feel like there's not enough hoursin the day and you need to start
(16:52):
delegating and building out a team.
And it is a great.
Way to add to your team because not onlyare you just relying yourself pitching
or the leads coming in, you have a wholeteam of people now pitching you and
have already have those relationshipswith the agencies and the brands,
and so you're getting really greatbrand deals and longer brand deals.
We are great at negotiating biggerrates and also when, and there's that
(17:16):
piece where you can focus on what the.
Art and the creativity andthe piece that you need to do.
And we can handle everything else, whetherit's the agreements or the negotiating or
the rates or the logistics be that go intoa brand deal, which there is quite a bit.
So it's really beneficial.
(17:36):
And again, we reallytry to have added value.
So there's that strategy pieceand we try to look at other
opportunities that we can.
Bring your way that makes sensefor the direction you wanna go in.
Try to be as open and transparentas I can on this show.
And if you don't mind, I'd like totalk numbers for a minute and you
don't have to give exact numbers fora specific situation, but the first
(17:58):
thing I wanna talk about is how big did.
How many views does a video need toget in order to have a brand deal?
Or how many subscribers doesthe creator need to have?
These are all questions that I getthrown at me on a weekly basis, so
give me the top down speech of, okay,it's obviously a range, but here's
what you're looking at and here's theamount of money you'd get for that.
(18:19):
Possible brand deal.
Absolutely.
We it's bigger than, there's more ofa holistic approach than just your
numbers on your YouTube channel.
We are looking at, it's pretty importantto have Instagram or do you have TikTok?
So we wanna see where else you'regrowing because often brands
like to have multi-layer deals.
If we're, if it is someonewho is building on YouTube and
(18:41):
they're, they don't have larger.
Platforms anywhere else.
It can really depend truthfully.
It depends on the niche you're in.
I think that we would start lookingat anyone who has at least 10,000
subscribers and is monetized.
But again, it, we would be looking at yourengagement, your growth rate, where else
you're growing and the niche you're in.
(19:02):
So I. Think when you're growing on YouTubeyou want to look at the big picture and
also the types of videos you're creating.
How do you see a brand comingin and partnering with you?
So you, if you have a really great idea,for example, we just had a creator,
we've had a creator's partner lots oftimes with one with better health recent.
Recent recently, and that was witha day in the life and what I eat in
(19:24):
a day and about intuitive eating.
So you need to think about how is abrand going to come in and partner.
And so yes, the numbers matter,but it's more than that.
And again, consistency, because there'sbeen times lately where we'll be looking
at a creator who maybe is getting a lotof brand deals on Instagram and TikTok,
but we want to start pitching YouTubemore and we'll go and look at the channel.
(19:45):
They haven't posted inthree months and we can't.
Pitch them, or we can, but it may notland because the brand will quickly
see that there's not that consistency.
So it goes back to that consistencyyou're putting the time in.
It's all of those pieces put together.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing thatbecause I think that it is important
to talk about that side of it.
Like you said, you have to thinkabout it from the brand's perspective.
(20:06):
It's not just all sheer numbers,it's about interactivity.
Because at the end of the day, they justwant people to click on that link and
then possibly purchase their serviceor their product or whatever they're
pitching via the ad and sometimes.
I've worked with creators that have verylow subscriber numbers, but have a very
interactive, and and very sorry, veryactive audience, and a brand is very
happy to partner with them at a veryhigh rate because they know that the
(20:29):
actual people who are gonna take action.
On this is important and that trustyou're building with your audience.
And I think that all of those things areextremely important when it comes to that.
As far as creators that are dealing andtrying to work with brands themselves
and they're not a part of an agency,what advice would you give them?
I would definitely, brands especiallythese days, really like you to
(20:50):
come almost like that you've.
Put a brand, you see the whole branddeal that you see how it would work,
and you really pitch all of the details.
They like that.
They can always change it.
It's almost like a reverse engineering.
So if you're going to go to a brand,you can build a deck about yourself.
You can link within the emailat the pitch, but then a reverse
(21:10):
engineering of the brand.
I would say that's where the agency.
Comes into play is that we have theserelationships with these brands.
We have a direct connection.
So they will see that and we're able,and we've worked with them previously
we have that rapport with them.
So it is great that if you're not havinga lot of luck with pitching to brands
(21:33):
to reach out to an agency and we'realways happy to give feedback or meet.
We're always casting as well, what are.
Some of the biggest mistakes thatyou see creators making in the
current season of content creation?
Things that they think, we've gottado this, or it has to be this way
or, maybe misconceptions is a betterway of putting it, but what are those
(21:54):
things that you're seeing currently?
I would say analysis paralysis.
So I love the term done isbetter than perfect, just.
Put it out.
Don't overthink it.
A lot of times I, when I was a creatorit was the more organic, a bit on the fly
videos, vlogs that would just blow up, andthen other ones where I'd put so much time
(22:15):
production editing into kind of fall flat.
So don't overthink it.
Just keep putting them out.
Stick to your day.
Don't be afraid to try newthings and to get vulnerable too.
There's a lot of others, again,there's the consistency in those
pieces or just posting to shorts.
I really think the people, ifyou have the capacity to try
long form, but that would be it.
(22:36):
Is the overthinking.
What do you think, working with talentall the time and seeing people's channels
and doing deep dives into them in thecurrent state of YouTube, what's the
best balance of long form and short form?
I think that if you can post to shortform almost daily or multiple times a
week and then long form once a week,that would be a great combination, but.
(22:58):
There's no perfect science to it.
I think it really depends onyour channel and your goals.
I do think that long form, youdon't want to space them out any
more than every other week, or youcould post multiple times a week.
It's up to you for long formthat consistency, but I would
say that's a great ratio.
From a brand's perspective andjust the outside looking in,
(23:19):
what's the purpose of short form?
I have people ask me that all the time.
It, people have termed it, brainrock content and, years ago when
it first came onto the map, I wouldsay on this podcast, 'cause this
podcast is almost 14 years old, Iwould say I'm not too sure about it.
I don't know if I like it.
And I think a lot of my hesitancywas just my consumption habits.
Myself, I'm not too muchof a consumer of it.
(23:42):
Now, my wife, on the other hand,she's a teacher and that's really all
video that she consumes is short form.
It's just these videos of teacherstidying up their rooms or decorating
at the beginning of the year.
These are all, that's a differentconsumer than what I am.
I'm more of a long form kind of consumer.
So what is the purpose of Shortform andhow do you see it playing a role in people
getting brand deals and of that nature?
(24:03):
I think the short form, it's justlike TikTok and I love TikTok
and I love short form on YouTubeis it's that attention span.
They recognize that they're that quick,truthfully, that dopamine hit or that
quick piece of entertainment that anyonewho doesn't wanna settle into a long
video for the long form, I think it.
It much more comes from someone whoyou are more invested in and you
(24:26):
want that, you want to almost, it'slike tuning into your favorite show.
You want to settle intosomething like that.
So I think it, it really reflects theway that our behaviors, I know that my
kids, especially I teenagers and they.
Would choose the shortform over long form.
And so there's definitelyopportunity with brand deals.
(24:46):
With the short form, it would,depending on your size, but
obviously if you were doing a.
Brand partnership with a long form, you'dhave the option of a dedicated video or
a quick shout out, but those, the, it's,it is a higher rate that we would apply
to long form versus short form generally.
I also found that there'sdanger in growing a channel
(25:09):
strictly with short form.
I. Because I've had clients come tome and their channel is so messed up.
I mean to, for lack of better terms, it'sjust they've grown a channel with just
uploading shorts and they've accepted intothe partner program because they reached
the metrics of a thousand subscribers andhowever many shorts views, and they're
realizing that there's no money there.
Not in the partner program,not for vertical video.
(25:31):
So I think there is, for me as a coachand you as a somebody who's part of
an agency, we have to be instructingand telling our clients like.
Shorts are great as supplemental content,and there are some channels that, there
are outliers as always, but I thinkshorts can be a very good compliment.
Like for this podcast doing, bitsand pieces of little snippets that
(25:51):
we talk about through 30 minutes thatwe have our conversation can be very
much utilized in short form video.
And there's other ways that,that people are doing it.
I have a guy that I wascoaching a couple of years ago.
He does.
Tutorial series where he'll do likea, how to use Da Vinci Resolve.
It's a 10 part series in shorts.
And then he has a long form that helinks from all those shorts and he's
found a very good success with it.
(26:11):
And so what are your thoughts on that?
That you gotta havekind of a good balance.
Yeah, I'm very aligned with how you feel.
I think that I have definitely seengrowth with shorts, in fact, rapid growth.
But then you start topeel back the layers.
And to me, I feel like it, the.
The channel can feel a little shallowor empty and you want more depth to it.
(26:34):
When you're looking at the monetizationthrough YouTube and AdSense, I
love to say, people are like,how long should I make my videos?
I'm like 10 minutes is a sweet spot.
'cause then you get that mid.
Ad right in there.
So you, I wanna try toget as many ads in there.
So you gotta, again, thinkof the big picture and where
you wanna take your content.
(26:54):
I also really believe, and Iknow from experience of having
my own channel and followers andmult on multiple platforms that.
The followers you can create and buildon a YouTube channel is like no other.
They are so invested.
They feel like they know you.
They want to that time, that day eachweek to stop and that's when they have,
(27:17):
they sit down, they, they've savedyour video 'cause they're gonna have
it with their coffee or whichever.
So it's the, and then that is that.
Translates over to your selling power.
So if you're partnering with a brand andit's long form that there's that trust and
you can work it in a way that feels, thatyou can really share about the brand, and
(27:38):
I would highly recommend that you are,you choose brands that are very aligned
with you and what you would actually use.
But that there's just so much opportunitywith the long form in terms of monetizing.
Again, it is work, but if you reallyput your focus into that piece,
everything becomes so much stronger.
And I really like to say to peoplethat to treat a YouTube channel, like
(28:02):
it's, I see YouTube is completelydifferent as from Instagram and TikTok.
Those are social media.
This is more of a search engine andyou can see this as your own network.
This is your own show.
So if you can come in it.
Into it with that perspective, that work,that time you put in it makes sense.
It's a payoff.
And also when you're pitched to a brandand you're doing long form, this is with
(28:24):
any, so social media content, but it'sspecifically with long form YouTube is
because I used to be with an agency aswell that specialized with YouTube and
they were so good at pitching and this iswhat we do as well, is they're the talent.
They're the editor, the sound, thedirector, the videographer, and
this is what we need to remind.
Brands that the viewership on longform YouTube compared to traditional
(28:48):
media often exceeds it and they'regetting a deal compared to if they
put that ad spend somewhere else.
So it's worth it.
It's really worth it toput into long form as well.
A lot of good stuff there.
First thing I just wanna say, thank youfor mentioning that about the mid-roll
ad, about the 10 minute thing, becausepeople don't like talking about that.
They get a little bit squirmywhen you start talking about
(29:09):
money and making money.
Am procreator making money thatI'll talk about anything like that.
So I'm not worried about sounding oh,you're just a trying to get a money grab.
No, I'm not telling you to put outAI slop and do these channels where
you're doing these videos and there'sno real content there, no meat.
You're just doing it for the money.
I'm not telling you that, but as far asa creator who has a piece of art they're
trying to create, there is somethingto be said about optimizing for making
(29:32):
money so you can keep doing the thing.
So I would agree with exactlywhat you said at the top of that.
Answer and some really good stuffthere about brands and how they look
at long form differently, because youhave to think how traditional media was
back in the day during cable networksand advertisers running on normal
media or, mainstream media like CBS.
A, B, c whatever it may be.
(29:54):
These people were watching their largeTV in their living room and they may be
in the bed or they may be standing up,sitting on the couch, whatever it may be.
A lot of YouTube consumption is on adevice where you can just, you're a
tap away from that person's website.
As opposed to, okay, I've gotta go getmy computer, I gotta go get my device.
No, you're there on that device,whether it be an iPad, an
iPhone, whatever they're using.
(30:15):
And so I do believe there'ssomething to be said about that.
And so to hear you mentionthat is, is very powerful.
Are there any tools like that you guysuse and recommend to all your creators?
I happen to be a gearhead.
I love technology.
That's what my main YouTube channel'sabout is tutorials on technology.
So for that being the case.
Are there any tools of the trade thatyou recommend to all your talent?
Actually take this from a differentperspective, and I will say a lot
(30:37):
of peop, it again goes back to theoverthinking of, I need this equipment
and I need that to start, I need that.
I said some of my biggest videos, Istarted just shooting on an iPhone, just.
Horizontal.
And so I will say, get a nicepoint and shoot, start there.
And then you can start building.
You can get a lab mic and you canstart investing in different pieces to
really, I, I don't, yes, there's a lotof equipment out there that you can get
(31:00):
and you can get a lot of it on Amazon.
Like it, you don't have to start.
With the best, but I would saygo down that road, start posting,
and then you'll see what you need.
And then there's obviously great toolslike Vid IQ and things like that.
And then you'll and I, when itcomes to editing, I will say
that you can even start with.
I movie and then Final Cut is so similar.
(31:21):
So if you just watch YouTube videos,you can teach yourself and then
you can ma easily make that jump.
So I don't wanna intimidate peoplewith creating a channel with all
of the tech and the software, but.
You can keep leveling up and you canstart adding to it and figure out how you
can up your game and make things better.
But again, it goes back tothe storytelling, it goes
(31:42):
back to the consistency.
And if you really nail that andthen you can start improving your
quality, you'll be going somewhere.
How does AI play a role as we gettowards the end of this conversation?
I have to ask you what.
What things and tools orresources are you recommending
the talent that you work with?
(32:02):
As far as, because we do know, AIis here and it's here to stay, and
the people who don't use it or areagainst it are gonna get left behind.
And those that are.
Embracing it will be theones ahead of the curve.
So what are your thoughts on that?
I would say that for myself, I don'tuse too much AI in my day-to-day, but
I do love chat, GPT, and you couldbe using chat GPT for, especially
(32:25):
when you plan out your content.
So you could put everything about yourchannel and what you do and what your
goals are and everything and then ask.
Chat GPT to create a whole brandguide and plan out your videos, a
content calendar that's, and talkingpoints and how you can, when to post.
You could ask what's the besttime with my demographic.
(32:46):
So I think that is where my mind goesimmediately, is thinking of it as your.
Assistant or you're bringing on a brandingcompany or someone who's a strategist,
use AI to tap into that and to really,and flush out all of your ideas so
that it takes the guesswork out of it.
Yeah.
A lot of it's just efficiency.
Yes, time saving and being able to allowyou to allocate time like we talked about
(33:09):
earlier, to be the artist and the creatoras opposed to doing a lot of that mundane,
tedious work that AI can do right nowand will only get better at as time goes.
So I think that's a wonderful answer.
Last question for you aswe end this conversation.
What.
Or what final word would you say tocreators that are listening to this?
Whether they're growing and thriving orthey're struggling, stalling out, what
(33:32):
word of advice or maybe even I don'tknow, momentum, could you give them?
I think that there was a lotof good nuggets in there.
I would just say, again, to notoverthink what you're posting,
experiment, try new things.
Follow some creators who do somecontent that's similar, and see what
they're doing and do create yourown spin on it and get inspired.
(33:53):
And sometimes it can be a case of steppingback a bit and looking at your content and
seeing if you need to pivot a little bitor try something new so you get excited.
Lock yourself into ideas that.
Aren't bringing you joy.
And something I was gonna say whenbuilding your channel and that piece when
we were talking about the being afraidto talk about monetizing your channel or
(34:16):
selling out or anything, as long as youknow your why, like why did you start?
So for me, when I started to be aYouTuber the true answer is I was showing
twin moms how I was feeding both ofmy twins and changing them at night.
They're both crying and the logisticsof it, and that was where it started.
And then it started to become,okay, let me show my whole day.
(34:38):
It was me.
I was speaking to twin moms.
They're now almost 11 yearsold, so that was many years ago.
But that was my why, was to equipparents with some tools and know-how
and make them feel less alone.
I was very big about parentsknowing that, and moms that.
We're all in this togetherand that you're not alone.
So to know your why of what,who are you talking to?
(35:01):
Why are you doing this?
What was the reason?
And that can, years down the roadwhen you're stuck, it's good to
stop, say, why did I start this?
Why did I start this journey?
And to go back to the beginningand remember, maybe it's different,
life changes and you pivot andyou can, you start to turn, you
start to create different content.
But just to.
Remember what brings you joy.
(35:21):
Because if you're, if you have joycreating the content and you feel like
it's filling that creative bucket, whenyou're building it, you're storytelling.
It will show through with the content.
It will shine through instead of justtrying to be, you can be inspired
by other people, but I. Don't try toduplicate what someone else is doing.
Make sure that you're circling back towhat makes sense for you, and that will
(35:42):
really resonate with your following.
I love that.
Joanna, you have been an amazing guestand I will leave all of Joanna's links
if you think that your channel's agood fit for her agency, shine Talent
Group, I'll put the link to that.
And there's also a linkto Joanna's Instagram.
As well.
We'll put that in the show notes too.
So Joanna, thank you againso much for joining us today.
(36:04):
Thank you.
It was so great.
It was such a good conversation.
That's it for this week's episodeof the YouTube Creators Hub Show.
I'm so glad that youguys decided to join us.
Don't forget to check outeverything that we have to offer.
We have one-on-one YouTubecoaching that I do myself.
We have the Creators community,which you can join for five bucks
a month, and you get access to allthe things like an exclusive podcast
(36:26):
episode each and every Friday.
You get access to all the creatorsthat are there in the Discord server.
You get the monthly Mastermindcalls and the future workshops
hosted by past guest and myself.
So if that's interesting toyou, definitely check that out.
And then lastly, I would liketo remind you about our email
newsletter, the Entrepreneur's Minute.
It's absolutely free.
I'm not gonna spam your email inbox.
(36:48):
And every Friday I release a thoughtor a topic or a book I'm reading or
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with, my failures, things that I'mthinking about throughout the week, and
ideas and resources that I can sharewith you through the email newsletter.
So definitely go check thatout if you have an already.
So with that said, have a greatrest of your day or week, and
(37:09):
we'll see you guys next time.
First, I would say it's good toutilize both long form and short form.
(00:04):
I like, like when I see a talentusing both and growing in both ways.
Partly because right now there is a lotof growth opportunity with short and yes,
there are brand opportunities with short.
But if you, yes, it's work.
It takes a lot of consistency forlong form, but the payout is so huge
once you have an established channel.
Hello and welcome to this week's episodeof the YouTube Creators Hub Podcast, where
(00:27):
I sit down with wonderful content creatorsand I talk with them about their journey.
Talk with them about strategy, talkwith them about how they make money
as a creator, and so much more.
So if you haven't already,certainly go over and subscribe
to the podcast wherever.
And however you consume your podcastingcontent today, we have no sponsors.
We're just brought to you by all ofthe things that we have to offer you.
(00:49):
First thing I offer is YouTube coaching.
If you're looking to take yourchannel to the next level,
your brand, start a podcast.
I offer one-on-one.
Coaching.
All of that is in the links ofthis podcast and all of my website
URLs that you'll find below.
Also, we have probably the best bangfor your buck in the creator space.
We have a creator's corner community.
(01:09):
You can call it a club.
You can call it a mastermind group.
It doesn't matter.
It's a place where you can rub elbowswith other content creators For five
bucks a month, you get access to that.
An exclusive podcast episode recordedby me each and every week on Fridays, as
well as our mastermind calls once a month.
And we're also gonna be doing someworkshops throughout the summer where
other creators and past guests of the showwill come on and run workshops on specific
(01:33):
topics like thumbnails, marketing,monetization, and much, much more.
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Take a look at our email newsletter, theEntrepreneur's Minute, and that's it.
That's all the ads you'regonna hear throughout the show.
(01:55):
Now let's jump into thisweek's conversation.
Hello everyone, and welcome tothis week's conversation on the
YouTube Creators Hub podcast.
I'm joined today by Joanna.
Fowler, she is from Shine Talent Group.
She's actually head ofTalent at Shine Talent Group.
She's a former creator, turned YouTubeexpert, and now Head of Talent, as I
mentioned, at one of the industry'stop influencer talent agencies.
(02:18):
And again, the name of thatagency is Shine Talent Group.
Joanna, how are you doing today?
Great.
How are you?
Really good.
Looking forward to this conversation.
I have on creators and podcastersand people who are on Instagram and
TikTok, but to have someone likeyourself who's behind the scenes as
far as a director of talent at one ofthe top agencies, it's gonna be really
interesting to hear your perspectives.
(02:39):
So before we get too far aheaddown the road, I do want to ask
you, give me your origin story.
YouTube, how did you get into this?
I really stumbled into it, so I wouldconsider myself one of the OG bloggers.
So I had four kids, including twins,and I was trying to share my story
with other moms and that blew up.
And then I hit a point where I feltlike I couldn't tell my story very well.
(03:02):
I needed to do a day in thelife and show more about how
I manage everything as a mom.
So I just took a stab at YouTube andit took off right away, and then it.
Morphed into lifestyle, home declutteringparenting for quite a few years.
Yeah, so then I started to traveland speak at conferences to teach
other creators about YouTubeand who are established on other
(03:26):
platforms, but how to move theircontent storytelling on YouTube.
And that's when I realized I really loved.
The other side.
I really love the strategy side andhelping other people become the star.
So I like to consider myself aretired creator now on the other
side, helping other people grow theirplatforms and tell their story online.
So tell me exactly what you do with yourtitle being what it is at Shine Talent.
(03:49):
What exactly do you do day to day?
So First Shine is based outof Toronto, LA, and the uk.
So we are growing rapidly, yetwe really conduct ourselves
still as a boutique agency.
So we keep our rosters small and it's somuch more than just talent management.
We help build brands.
We have a literary agent, we developproducts, and we really look at
(04:11):
the big picture, which I love.
So my role, I'm.
Based outta the Toronto area.
So I'm the head of talent in Canada.
We all work together as a team, soI manage a team of talent managers.
I have a small roster myself that Imanage, and I also provide a lot of
strategy for our talent and our team.
So on a day to day, let's sayyou get up in the morning and
(04:33):
you go to work, what does a day,a typical day look like for you?
Is it a lot of emails back and forth with.
Talent that you currentlyhave in your roster?
Is it trying to do, talent acquisition?
What does that look like?
It's mostly meetings, which I love.
I love to connect with peopleand come up with ideas and pitch.
So it's either with meetings with myteam, so my talent management team,
(04:57):
helping them navigate with theirtalent, the opportunities there.
It is also in a lot of meetingswith agencies and brands pitching
my own talent or other talent.
With Shine, and also meetings withmy own talent, which would be just
keeping them up to date strategy.
And then I would be doingstrategy calls as well.
I do have an associate who helps me.
(05:18):
There are a lot of emails and there'sa lot of negotiating and pitching
and everything, but I wouldn't beable to do it without them as well.
And I assume a little bit of whatyou do is helping your talent.
Acquire brand deals and monetizationfor their channel outside of
the YouTube partner program.
And so we'll certainly get into thatas we go through this conversation.
But what does one of thosecalls look like with one of your
(05:39):
talent with a creator on YouTube?
What does that normally consist of?
You mentioned strategy.
How do those calls look?
Do they come at you with a bulleted listof things they want to go over or do you
analyze and audit the channel beforehand?
Or is it a little bit of both?
A little bit of both.
I do a quick audit beforehand,typically, but I also really like to
go into the meeting, just hearing fromthem, hearing what their goals are.
(06:02):
Often it's a conversation about postingconsistently, because as we know, that's
the number one thing with YouTube.
Whether they're posting a lot ofshorts, but they're not exploring
long form, we would talk about.
What that would look like or vice versa.
And then it's even looking at whatvideos are working, what aren't.
Maybe it's the SEO, so howthey're titling their videos.
(06:22):
So we'll go in different routesdepending on where I can see
that they could have support.
But we, I'd love to dig into thatand just have a look at what's
working, what's not, how, what wouldbe attractive to brands as well.
What looks differentnow in 2025 than it did.
Five, 10 years ago, however longago it was that when you were
(06:44):
creating on YouTubes, what's changed?
What are the different buzzwordsand the things that, that
you find yourself going over?
You mentioned the consistencyand things like that.
What else is there?
This is what I love about YouTubeis that it is so consistent.
So there's so much that's the same.
That's 10 years ago.
That's pick your day and stick to it.
And to know how to tell your story.
(07:05):
The types of videosare typically the same.
Yes, there's some new nichescoming in and everything, but
the big one would be shorts.
Short form.
That is the new one that has come in,and we see a lot of growth with that.
So that would be the main one.
There's other features that YouTube have.
Has brought in, but that's somethingthat, especially when I'm trying to give
strategy to a talent who maybe has growntheir platforms on TikTok and Instagram
(07:29):
and they want to also then start growingon YouTube that's my biggest selling
point, is that Instagram and TikTok andother platforms can be frustrating because
the algorithm is constantly changing.
But from my own experience and whatI've watched is overall YouTube is
so consistent and there's really.
A direct formula how to grow on YouTube.
(07:51):
So let's, obviously, we're notgonna talk about the entire formula,
but can we do A-T-L-D-R of theformula of what's working right now?
Like when you get a new client or you'rebringing someone on, or you're pitching
your services, what does that package looklike for people listening to this show
who are thinking as they're listening?
(08:11):
I'd love to know that formulaor why isn't it working for me?
Or, I'm not seeing the growth.
A lot of my coaching clients, I'll haveone call with them and they expect to
make the changes and come back on thenext call, and it just automatically,
they're viral and they're the next Mr.
Beast, but that's justnot how this thing works.
So can you just talk about that formulaa bit and just how you break it down?
Absolutely.
(08:31):
So first I would say.
It's good to utilize bothlong form and short form.
I like, like when I see a talentusing both and growing in both ways.
Partly because right now there is a lotof growth opportunity with shorts and
yes, there are brand opportunities withshorts, but if you, yes, it's work.
It takes a lot of consistency forlong form, but the payout is so huge.
(08:53):
Once you have an established channel,the formula would definitely include.
Knowing what your pillars are.
So are you And I do work most,we're bringing in more people with
our team that focus on gaming andstreaming and different niches.
But my bread and butter and what Shinehas generally focused on mostly over
the years is beauty home lifestyle.
(09:15):
So I really like to look at thepillars and is it, and cycle
through what you're doing.
So are you doing, chatty video firstor storytelling, and then vlogs.
Is it a declutter or a groceryhall, that type of thing.
A, a get ready with me.
So there are those typical videosand you can branch out from there.
But I do like when I see themcycling through and I think that's
(09:38):
a really good formula as much as.
Series can be, I sometimes steerpeople away from them, or I say
batch create first, then post.
Because it is a lot of work andit can sometimes wear people down.
A lot of people don't finish series.
So I like more for them to knowwhat works and then they do that.
If say you're sick and you're supposedto post every Wednesday, I always
(10:00):
say, still pick up the camera, talkto camera for two minutes, talk
about, oh, I've been sick this week.
Post it.
Just get something up.
And sometimes that type of rawvideo can really resonate with your
following, depending on the channel.
A lot of it does not needto be overproduced it.
It more needs to be about thatconnection with your following.
And then there needs to be thatnarration or storytelling piece.
(10:22):
So if we're looking at a vlog, youwant to make sure that you are moving
through narration or storytellingto then some B-roll, and then maybe
it's more storytelling and then amontage you're giving your audience.
Breaks, you're using music anddifferent pieces to tell that story.
I also like it when it's not so broad.
(10:44):
So if you're doing a vlog thatyou're filming throughout a
week, is there something that youcan touch base on a few times?
Maybe it's some trying out some newmakeup, or you're putting in a garden
and you're circling back to that.
Another great formula, and here'ssome of my YouTube tips, is to
make sure that your title is very.
SEO Friendly.
So you're titling your YouTubevideo, great, SEO friendly, but
then your thumbnails that secondopportunity to catch someone's eye.
(11:07):
So when all of everything comes up,once you've searched, that's your second
opportunity to maybe give it a secondtitle and some really eye catching
thumbnail imagery that can pull people in.
Another tip for growing onYouTube would be to add.
Links to your own videos in yourdescription or other YouTubers because
(11:27):
YouTube likes to reward anyone who staysin YouTube and that will really, that
can help boost you in the algorithm.
How does somebody getbetter at storytelling?
I think it has.
I think if you're focusing on what youknow, it can start to come naturally.
You have to also know that thebeauty of YouTube is you can edit.
So just let it flow.
Start showing pieces ofyour life, tell your story.
(11:49):
And also it could be something wheremaybe you are a beauty creator and
you're doing a Get ready with me.
But think of some specific story.
And again, don't go too broad.
Maybe pick a piece of it out andit can be something that you can
pull apart and tell and share more.
And also listen to what.
Is in the comments, what yourfollowers are saying, and that
(12:09):
will guide you into what they wantto see more and hear more about.
But I, it does take some time to get morecomfortable, but I, as long as you're
sticking with what you know or your ownstories, I feel like it's more organic
and it will come really naturally.
Yeah, I feel storytelling.
I was talking to a client this morningand he was saying that he just got
done reading a couple of books onstorytelling, and he felt like it was,
(12:30):
the thing that came the most unnaturalto him was to be a storyteller.
And I think that one of the thingscreators can do is, like you
said, just turn the camera on.
And even if you don't postit, just talk to the camera.
Get better at just the fluidity of beingable to speak to the camera as if you're
speaking to your audience and community.
And I wanna tail into that.
Talking about community, howimportant do you and the agency
(12:53):
you work for consider community?
Because there's a big crop, rising cropof faceless YouTube channels with ai
and they're not really community based.
They're more based on search or virality.
And although some of them have communitiesthat are built around them, they're
niched communities, whatever they may be.
How important.
Is that, especially for those peoplethat are, possibly coming from Instagram
or TikTok or Twitch or whatever, andthey're coming to the YouTube space.
(13:16):
So as far as community building goes, whatare your thoughts and strategies on that?
Yeah, it's definitely very importantand you really need to think ahead about
how you will be partnering with a brand.
So you want an engaged community.
You want to build trust.
These faceless.
Channels.
They might have affiliate links andthat could work for them, and that
could be the way they monetize.
(13:37):
But if you're looking to reallyhave an interactive brand
partnership, you need to have thatrelationship with your following.
And I always like to think about it tooas think about it as if you're sitting
down and having a cup, a coffee with them.
So to read the comments andmake sure that you're engaging
that engagement is so important.
Also know that yes.
If you're moving from Instagram, sayto YouTube, some people will come
(14:00):
to YouTube, but you're also goingto be building a very likely, a very
different community within YouTube.
Organically.
I like to be very strategicabout content, so where is your
piece of content originating?
Then how can you use allof your other platforms?
Are you going to have a long form video?
And YouTube and then have shorts,cutdowns or complimentary videos
(14:23):
to go with it that then you canalso put on Instagram and TikTok.
Are you showing something on onInstagram and saying, I'm telling the
longer story, or I'm showing the full.
Thing on YouTube, move over there.
So really think about how peoplewould move and human behavior.
And just to touch on storytelling,again, I wanna say that anyone who's
(14:43):
nervous or finding that storytelling'shard again, don't forget that
music and editing is your friend.
So you can tell a story and you canchange the tone of a story by the type
of music that you pair with it, or theB roll that you're showing during it.
You can make a story so much moreinteresting with the magic of editing.
It just adds break breaks inthe action, and I listen to
(15:07):
a lot of podcasts on YouTube.
I think that's one of the newerways in the past few years that
people are consuming YouTube contentis these long form videos like
what you and I are doing today.
This conversation will be around 30to 35 minutes long, and some of my
episodes are even longer, and someof the content that I consume from
some of my favorite podcasts are.
Multiple hours.
(15:27):
So I think that we're learningthat any way we can break it up.
Now, you don't wanna do too much.
There is something to be said aboutdoing too much, but breaking it up
with a bit of B roll or a bit of musicor whatever it may be, to give that
visual of what it's gonna be about.
I, I just, I love that.
I'm glad that you mentioned that.
Obviously people are.
Not necessarily paying you, but they'regetting a, you're getting a percentage
(15:48):
from your agency, so there has tobe benefit to going with the agency.
So let's talk about monetization now.
How are you helping creators get money?
How are you helping them findmonetization buckets for their content
on YouTube and what are the variousways that you're doing that now?
Absolutely.
So it's mostly through brand partnerships.
We do explore, like I said, brandbuilding in other ways too, but.
(16:09):
For YouTube specifically, itwould be brand partnerships.
And the way that Shine works is wealways start with a trial agreement.
So you trial us, we trial you, andthen we move into the exclusive time.
And we're always very careful and wantto, so it's very much creators first.
So if we see that not many leadsare coming in and not many pitches
(16:30):
are landing for whatever reason,and sometimes it can just be a.
A growth period and things like that.
We will say, it doesn't make senseright now for you to have management,
but it makes a ton of sense togo once you're growing and things
are happening to go to an agency.
Because as a creator it can be avery lonely job, and suddenly you
feel like there's not enough hoursin the day and you need to start
(16:52):
delegating and building out a team.
And it is a great.
Way to add to your team because not onlyare you just relying yourself pitching
or the leads coming in, you have a wholeteam of people now pitching you and
have already have those relationshipswith the agencies and the brands,
and so you're getting really greatbrand deals and longer brand deals.
We are great at negotiating biggerrates and also when, and there's that
(17:16):
piece where you can focus on what the.
Art and the creativity andthe piece that you need to do.
And we can handle everything else, whetherit's the agreements or the negotiating or
the rates or the logistics be that go intoa brand deal, which there is quite a bit.
So it's really beneficial.
(17:36):
And again, we reallytry to have added value.
So there's that strategy pieceand we try to look at other
opportunities that we can.
Bring your way that makes sensefor the direction you wanna go in.
Try to be as open and transparentas I can on this show.
And if you don't mind, I'd like totalk numbers for a minute and you
don't have to give exact numbers fora specific situation, but the first
(17:58):
thing I wanna talk about is how big did.
How many views does a video need toget in order to have a brand deal?
Or how many subscribers doesthe creator need to have?
These are all questions that I getthrown at me on a weekly basis, so
give me the top down speech of, okay,it's obviously a range, but here's
what you're looking at and here's theamount of money you'd get for that.
(18:19):
Possible brand deal.
Absolutely.
We it's bigger than, there's more ofa holistic approach than just your
numbers on your YouTube channel.
We are looking at, it's pretty importantto have Instagram or do you have TikTok?
So we wanna see where else you'regrowing because often brands
like to have multi-layer deals.
If we're, if it is someonewho is building on YouTube and
(18:41):
they're, they don't have larger.
Platforms anywhere else.
It can really depend truthfully.
It depends on the niche you're in.
I think that we would start lookingat anyone who has at least 10,000
subscribers and is monetized.
But again, it, we would be looking at yourengagement, your growth rate, where else
you're growing and the niche you're in.
(19:02):
So I. Think when you're growing on YouTubeyou want to look at the big picture and
also the types of videos you're creating.
How do you see a brand comingin and partnering with you?
So you, if you have a really great idea,for example, we just had a creator,
we've had a creator's partner lots oftimes with one with better health recent.
Recent recently, and that was witha day in the life and what I eat in
(19:24):
a day and about intuitive eating.
So you need to think about how is abrand going to come in and partner.
And so yes, the numbers matter,but it's more than that.
And again, consistency, because there'sbeen times lately where we'll be looking
at a creator who maybe is getting a lotof brand deals on Instagram and TikTok,
but we want to start pitching YouTubemore and we'll go and look at the channel.
(19:45):
They haven't posted inthree months and we can't.
Pitch them, or we can, but it may notland because the brand will quickly
see that there's not that consistency.
So it goes back to that consistencyyou're putting the time in.
It's all of those pieces put together.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing thatbecause I think that it is important
to talk about that side of it.
Like you said, you have to thinkabout it from the brand's perspective.
(20:06):
It's not just all sheer numbers,it's about interactivity.
Because at the end of the day, they justwant people to click on that link and
then possibly purchase their serviceor their product or whatever they're
pitching via the ad and sometimes.
I've worked with creators that have verylow subscriber numbers, but have a very
interactive, and and very sorry, veryactive audience, and a brand is very
happy to partner with them at a veryhigh rate because they know that the
(20:29):
actual people who are gonna take action.
On this is important and that trustyou're building with your audience.
And I think that all of those things areextremely important when it comes to that.
As far as creators that are dealing andtrying to work with brands themselves
and they're not a part of an agency,what advice would you give them?
I would definitely, brands especiallythese days, really like you to
(20:50):
come almost like that you've.
Put a brand, you see the whole branddeal that you see how it would work,
and you really pitch all of the details.
They like that.
They can always change it.
It's almost like a reverse engineering.
So if you're going to go to a brand,you can build a deck about yourself.
You can link within the emailat the pitch, but then a reverse
(21:10):
engineering of the brand.
I would say that's where the agency.
Comes into play is that we have theserelationships with these brands.
We have a direct connection.
So they will see that and we're able,and we've worked with them previously
we have that rapport with them.
So it is great that if you're not havinga lot of luck with pitching to brands
(21:33):
to reach out to an agency and we'realways happy to give feedback or meet.
We're always casting as well, what are.
Some of the biggest mistakes thatyou see creators making in the
current season of content creation?
Things that they think, we've gottado this, or it has to be this way
or, maybe misconceptions is a betterway of putting it, but what are those
(21:54):
things that you're seeing currently?
I would say analysis paralysis.
So I love the term done isbetter than perfect, just.
Put it out.
Don't overthink it.
A lot of times I, when I was a creatorit was the more organic, a bit on the fly
videos, vlogs that would just blow up, andthen other ones where I'd put so much time
(22:15):
production editing into kind of fall flat.
So don't overthink it.
Just keep putting them out.
Stick to your day.
Don't be afraid to try newthings and to get vulnerable too.
There's a lot of others, again,there's the consistency in those
pieces or just posting to shorts.
I really think the people, ifyou have the capacity to try
long form, but that would be it.
(22:36):
Is the overthinking.
What do you think, working with talentall the time and seeing people's channels
and doing deep dives into them in thecurrent state of YouTube, what's the
best balance of long form and short form?
I think that if you can post to shortform almost daily or multiple times a
week and then long form once a week,that would be a great combination, but.
(22:58):
There's no perfect science to it.
I think it really depends onyour channel and your goals.
I do think that long form, youdon't want to space them out any
more than every other week, or youcould post multiple times a week.
It's up to you for long formthat consistency, but I would
say that's a great ratio.
From a brand's perspective andjust the outside looking in,
(23:19):
what's the purpose of short form?
I have people ask me that all the time.
It, people have termed it, brainrock content and, years ago when
it first came onto the map, I wouldsay on this podcast, 'cause this
podcast is almost 14 years old, Iwould say I'm not too sure about it.
I don't know if I like it.
And I think a lot of my hesitancywas just my consumption habits.
Myself, I'm not too muchof a consumer of it.
(23:42):
Now, my wife, on the other hand,she's a teacher and that's really all
video that she consumes is short form.
It's just these videos of teacherstidying up their rooms or decorating
at the beginning of the year.
These are all, that's a differentconsumer than what I am.
I'm more of a long form kind of consumer.
So what is the purpose of Shortform andhow do you see it playing a role in people
getting brand deals and of that nature?
(24:03):
I think the short form, it's justlike TikTok and I love TikTok
and I love short form on YouTubeis it's that attention span.
They recognize that they're that quick,truthfully, that dopamine hit or that
quick piece of entertainment that anyonewho doesn't wanna settle into a long
video for the long form, I think it.
It much more comes from someone whoyou are more invested in and you
(24:26):
want that, you want to almost, it'slike tuning into your favorite show.
You want to settle intosomething like that.
So I think it, it really reflects theway that our behaviors, I know that my
kids, especially I teenagers and they.
Would choose the shortform over long form.
And so there's definitelyopportunity with brand deals.
(24:46):
With the short form, it would,depending on your size, but
obviously if you were doing a.
Brand partnership with a long form, you'dhave the option of a dedicated video or
a quick shout out, but those, the, it's,it is a higher rate that we would apply
to long form versus short form generally.
I also found that there'sdanger in growing a channel
(25:09):
strictly with short form.
I. Because I've had clients come tome and their channel is so messed up.
I mean to, for lack of better terms, it'sjust they've grown a channel with just
uploading shorts and they've accepted intothe partner program because they reached
the metrics of a thousand subscribers andhowever many shorts views, and they're
realizing that there's no money there.
Not in the partner program,not for vertical video.
(25:31):
So I think there is, for me as a coachand you as a somebody who's part of
an agency, we have to be instructingand telling our clients like.
Shorts are great as supplemental content,and there are some channels that, there
are outliers as always, but I thinkshorts can be a very good compliment.
Like for this podcast doing, bitsand pieces of little snippets that
(25:51):
we talk about through 30 minutes thatwe have our conversation can be very
much utilized in short form video.
And there's other ways that,that people are doing it.
I have a guy that I wascoaching a couple of years ago.
He does.
Tutorial series where he'll do likea, how to use Da Vinci Resolve.
It's a 10 part series in shorts.
And then he has a long form that helinks from all those shorts and he's
found a very good success with it.
(26:11):
And so what are your thoughts on that?
That you gotta havekind of a good balance.
Yeah, I'm very aligned with how you feel.
I think that I have definitely seengrowth with shorts, in fact, rapid growth.
But then you start topeel back the layers.
And to me, I feel like it, the.
The channel can feel a little shallowor empty and you want more depth to it.
(26:34):
When you're looking at the monetizationthrough YouTube and AdSense, I
love to say, people are like,how long should I make my videos?
I'm like 10 minutes is a sweet spot.
'cause then you get that mid.
Ad right in there.
So you, I wanna try toget as many ads in there.
So you gotta, again, thinkof the big picture and where
you wanna take your content.
(26:54):
I also really believe, and Iknow from experience of having
my own channel and followers andmult on multiple platforms that.
The followers you can create and buildon a YouTube channel is like no other.
They are so invested.
They feel like they know you.
They want to that time, that day eachweek to stop and that's when they have,
(27:17):
they sit down, they, they've savedyour video 'cause they're gonna have
it with their coffee or whichever.
So it's the, and then that is that.
Translates over to your selling power.
So if you're partnering with a brand andit's long form that there's that trust and
you can work it in a way that feels, thatyou can really share about the brand, and
(27:38):
I would highly recommend that you are,you choose brands that are very aligned
with you and what you would actually use.
But that there's just so much opportunitywith the long form in terms of monetizing.
Again, it is work, but if you reallyput your focus into that piece,
everything becomes so much stronger.
And I really like to say to peoplethat to treat a YouTube channel, like
(28:02):
it's, I see YouTube is completelydifferent as from Instagram and TikTok.
Those are social media.
This is more of a search engine andyou can see this as your own network.
This is your own show.
So if you can come in it.
Into it with that perspective, that work,that time you put in it makes sense.
It's a payoff.
And also when you're pitched to a brandand you're doing long form, this is with
(28:24):
any, so social media content, but it'sspecifically with long form YouTube is
because I used to be with an agency aswell that specialized with YouTube and
they were so good at pitching and this iswhat we do as well, is they're the talent.
They're the editor, the sound, thedirector, the videographer, and
this is what we need to remind.
Brands that the viewership on longform YouTube compared to traditional
(28:48):
media often exceeds it and they'regetting a deal compared to if they
put that ad spend somewhere else.
So it's worth it.
It's really worth it toput into long form as well.
A lot of good stuff there.
First thing I just wanna say, thank youfor mentioning that about the mid-roll
ad, about the 10 minute thing, becausepeople don't like talking about that.
They get a little bit squirmywhen you start talking about
(29:09):
money and making money.
Am procreator making money thatI'll talk about anything like that.
So I'm not worried about sounding oh,you're just a trying to get a money grab.
No, I'm not telling you to put outAI slop and do these channels where
you're doing these videos and there'sno real content there, no meat.
You're just doing it for the money.
I'm not telling you that, but as far asa creator who has a piece of art they're
trying to create, there is somethingto be said about optimizing for making
(29:32):
money so you can keep doing the thing.
So I would agree with exactlywhat you said at the top of that.
Answer and some really good stuffthere about brands and how they look
at long form differently, because youhave to think how traditional media was
back in the day during cable networksand advertisers running on normal
media or, mainstream media like CBS.
A, B, c whatever it may be.
(29:54):
These people were watching their largeTV in their living room and they may be
in the bed or they may be standing up,sitting on the couch, whatever it may be.
A lot of YouTube consumption is on adevice where you can just, you're a
tap away from that person's website.
As opposed to, okay, I've gotta go getmy computer, I gotta go get my device.
No, you're there on that device,whether it be an iPad, an
iPhone, whatever they're using.
(30:15):
And so I do believe there'ssomething to be said about that.
And so to hear you mentionthat is, is very powerful.
Are there any tools like that you guysuse and recommend to all your creators?
I happen to be a gearhead.
I love technology.
That's what my main YouTube channel'sabout is tutorials on technology.
So for that being the case.
Are there any tools of the trade thatyou recommend to all your talent?
Actually take this from a differentperspective, and I will say a lot
(30:37):
of peop, it again goes back to theoverthinking of, I need this equipment
and I need that to start, I need that.
I said some of my biggest videos, Istarted just shooting on an iPhone, just.
Horizontal.
And so I will say, get a nicepoint and shoot, start there.
And then you can start building.
You can get a lab mic and you canstart investing in different pieces to
really, I, I don't, yes, there's a lotof equipment out there that you can get
(31:00):
and you can get a lot of it on Amazon.
Like it, you don't have to start.
With the best, but I would saygo down that road, start posting,
and then you'll see what you need.
And then there's obviously great toolslike Vid IQ and things like that.
And then you'll and I, when itcomes to editing, I will say
that you can even start with.
I movie and then Final Cut is so similar.
(31:21):
So if you just watch YouTube videos,you can teach yourself and then
you can ma easily make that jump.
So I don't wanna intimidate peoplewith creating a channel with all
of the tech and the software, but.
You can keep leveling up and you canstart adding to it and figure out how you
can up your game and make things better.
But again, it goes back tothe storytelling, it goes
(31:42):
back to the consistency.
And if you really nail that andthen you can start improving your
quality, you'll be going somewhere.
How does AI play a role as we gettowards the end of this conversation?
I have to ask you what.
What things and tools orresources are you recommending
the talent that you work with?
(32:02):
As far as, because we do know, AIis here and it's here to stay, and
the people who don't use it or areagainst it are gonna get left behind.
And those that are.
Embracing it will be theones ahead of the curve.
So what are your thoughts on that?
I would say that for myself, I don'tuse too much AI in my day-to-day, but
I do love chat, GPT, and you couldbe using chat GPT for, especially
(32:25):
when you plan out your content.
So you could put everything about yourchannel and what you do and what your
goals are and everything and then ask.
Chat GPT to create a whole brandguide and plan out your videos, a
content calendar that's, and talkingpoints and how you can, when to post.
You could ask what's the besttime with my demographic.
(32:46):
So I think that is where my mind goesimmediately, is thinking of it as your.
Assistant or you're bringing on a brandingcompany or someone who's a strategist,
use AI to tap into that and to really,and flush out all of your ideas so
that it takes the guesswork out of it.
Yeah.
A lot of it's just efficiency.
Yes, time saving and being able to allowyou to allocate time like we talked about
(33:09):
earlier, to be the artist and the creatoras opposed to doing a lot of that mundane,
tedious work that AI can do right nowand will only get better at as time goes.
So I think that's a wonderful answer.
Last question for you aswe end this conversation.
What.
Or what final word would you say tocreators that are listening to this?
Whether they're growing and thriving orthey're struggling, stalling out, what
(33:32):
word of advice or maybe even I don'tknow, momentum, could you give them?
I think that there was a lotof good nuggets in there.
I would just say, again, to notoverthink what you're posting,
experiment, try new things.
Follow some creators who do somecontent that's similar, and see what
they're doing and do create yourown spin on it and get inspired.
(33:53):
And sometimes it can be a case of steppingback a bit and looking at your content and
seeing if you need to pivot a little bitor try something new so you get excited.
Lock yourself into ideas that.
Aren't bringing you joy.
And something I was gonna say whenbuilding your channel and that piece when
we were talking about the being afraidto talk about monetizing your channel or
(34:16):
selling out or anything, as long as youknow your why, like why did you start?
So for me, when I started to be aYouTuber the true answer is I was showing
twin moms how I was feeding both ofmy twins and changing them at night.
They're both crying and the logisticsof it, and that was where it started.
And then it started to become,okay, let me show my whole day.
(34:38):
It was me.
I was speaking to twin moms.
They're now almost 11 yearsold, so that was many years ago.
But that was my why, was to equipparents with some tools and know-how
and make them feel less alone.
I was very big about parentsknowing that, and moms that.
We're all in this togetherand that you're not alone.
So to know your why of what,who are you talking to?
(35:01):
Why are you doing this?
What was the reason?
And that can, years down the roadwhen you're stuck, it's good to
stop, say, why did I start this?
Why did I start this journey?
And to go back to the beginningand remember, maybe it's different,
life changes and you pivot andyou can, you start to turn, you
start to create different content.
But just to.
Remember what brings you joy.
(35:21):
Because if you're, if you have joycreating the content and you feel like
it's filling that creative bucket, whenyou're building it, you're storytelling.
It will show through with the content.
It will shine through instead of justtrying to be, you can be inspired
by other people, but I. Don't try toduplicate what someone else is doing.
Make sure that you're circling back towhat makes sense for you, and that will
(35:42):
really resonate with your following.
I love that.
Joanna, you have been an amazing guestand I will leave all of Joanna's links
if you think that your channel's agood fit for her agency, shine Talent
Group, I'll put the link to that.
And there's also a linkto Joanna's Instagram.
As well.
We'll put that in the show notes too.
So Joanna, thank you againso much for joining us today.
(36:04):
Thank you.
It was so great.
It was such a good conversation.
That's it for this week's episodeof the YouTube Creators Hub Show.
I'm so glad that youguys decided to join us.
Don't forget to check outeverything that we have to offer.
We have one-on-one YouTubecoaching that I do myself.
We have the Creators community,which you can join for five bucks
a month, and you get access to allthe things like an exclusive podcast
(36:26):
episode each and every Friday.
You get access to all the creatorsthat are there in the Discord server.
You get the monthly Mastermindcalls and the future workshops
hosted by past guest and myself.
So if that's interesting toyou, definitely check that out.
And then lastly, I would liketo remind you about our email
newsletter, the Entrepreneur's Minute.
It's absolutely free.
I'm not gonna spam your email inbox.
(36:48):
And every Friday I release a thoughtor a topic or a book I'm reading or
a resource, and you get a behind thescenes look of things that I'm struggling
with, my failures, things that I'mthinking about throughout the week, and
ideas and resources that I can sharewith you through the email newsletter.
So definitely go check thatout if you have an already.
So with that said, have a greatrest of your day or week, and
(37:09):
we'll see you guys next time.
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