December 4, 2025 • 33 mins
Josh Yohe joins this hour to talk Penguins and Tampa tonight. Mark takes your calls as well.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Mark Madden Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I guess dial eight three three four one two w xdx,
or you can follow me on Twitter at Mark Madden. Next,
don't forget Tonight I'll be watching the Penguins at Dino's
in Latrobe right on Route thirty. Great popcorn, great wings.
And then Sunday I'll be at the Polish Club, the
PNC Club in Shooting, Pa Up near Wampam Up near
(00:26):
Elwood City. Dick Allen, Donnie Iris. I go through every year.
It's the best. They go nuts. You think I'm a
celebrity here, put me on the sticks in a Polish club,
havin the guilt, No, that's not Polish. Dobrah Shanka. Yeah,
the Jack hamp thing. The Polish people love me, so
join me. I think you have to be a member,
(00:46):
but come anyway. They'll let you in. At the PNC
Club in Shooting for the Steelers and Ravens at one
pm Sunday. It's gonna be a big one. So uh,
can the Steelers shut down? Dereck Henry. I always like
discussion like this in the middle of a season. It's
very evidently going nowhere at six and six, and the
(01:10):
product looks worse than six and six. I love saying, well,
what should the Steelers do? How can the Steelers fix it?
And the answers are nothing that they're willing to try.
They're not going to use them. Middlemore, Rogers just said
yesterday that the deep balls aren't there. Friarm We've talked
(01:30):
about being on the pay No Mind list very graciously,
but he didn't sound optimistic that it would change. Boy,
Like I said, when Rogers talks now and he just
turned forty two, he looks like he just turned seventy two.
He looks like a prisoner of war, a wartime president, or,
like I said, an old man who's waiting at a
(01:52):
bus stop and doesn't understand that the bus just isn't coming.
When Aaron Rodgers talks now, like old and gray and
defeated and old and frustrated and old and like he's
ready for it to end, and not just the season.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
He's ready for it to end, and not just the season.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
On Sunday, Rogers said that some receivers aren't attending film watching.
Farmers said, that's not true. Nobody followed up with Tom
or Rodgers this week, and who cares anyway? This is
like sifting through crap to find more crap. There's no
diamond at the bottom of the sifting pail, just more excrement.
(02:32):
It's a team that's six and six and eight won
a playoff game in eight years. What's there to microanalyze.
It's a bad, prehistoric, deadly dull football franchise run by incompetence.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And there's also a bad side that was a Hunter S.
Thompson reference. I am on fire.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Today, even a very few of you are smart enough
to know it. Okay, up, here's part two of my
Tomlin ran from the first hour?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Are you with me so far? Eagles reference on Fire.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Mike Tomlin has coached nineteen seasons as a head coach
in the NFL, including this one. He's won a playoff
game in four of those seasons. Four seasons out of
eighteen going on nineteen, Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game
in the last eight seasons. He won a Super Bowl
with Bill Cowers players. He won a Super Bowl with
Bill Cowards leaders. He won a Super Bowl with Bill
(03:28):
Cowers culture. All that becomes more evident the further away
we get. Mike Tomlin has assembled lesser teams. He's not
developed new leaders, and the culture has been terrible for years.
Tomlin hasn't been able to create anything on his own
besides mediocrity, and he's refused help from any football mine
(03:49):
better than his.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Like LeBeau an Arians, he has.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Instead assembled a cut rate staff of incompetence with the
FedEx guys, the OC and his Lackey as the DC.
So I ask, once again, how is any of this
not Mike Tomlin's fault, not only the current state, but
the entire decline. You a doul't think he's a Hall
(04:14):
of Fame coach, but Mike tomin was never even a
good coach. That's what I think anyway, A three three
four to one two WSDX. I've been saying all this
for years, and I get proven a little more right
every year. And like I said in the show's open,
(04:34):
nobody has ever been more at fault for anything than
Mike Tomlin is at fault for everything that's wrong with
the Steelers. He's the head coach, he's really the defensive coordinator.
He's responsible for the whole prehistoric rock Fight outlook. He
has final say on all personnel decisions, including the draft.
He is at fault for everything everything, everything once he
(04:58):
get fault for say it with me everything, and yet
I turn on get up, which is my mistake.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, the Steelers should do him a favor. Let him
go somewhere else where. We could begin again, and there's
no doubt he'd win. Okay, send him to the New
York Football Giants, I have doubted and win, and it
would be just oh my god, oh my god, oh
my god. There's some days I would like to quit
this job more than life itself. If he ever goes
to the Giants, I'd work ten hour days, twelve hour days.
(05:26):
I'd be on around the clock to witness that failure.
Oh my god, oh my god, oh, just thinking about it,
just thinking about it. If I could go to a
break right now, to kind of duck under the console,
I would.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I would. Can I how much time left in this segment?
Damn it?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I can't then again at this point even during I
mean it, could you know it doesn't take. I mean
just saying, okay, anyway, get your calls in for calls
at the fifteens, Dino, Tom, And if you're listening to
Mike's son that wants to fight everybody, your dad sucks
(06:03):
and should be fired. Call now eight three three four
one two wxdx. That's eight three three four one two wxdx.
But I'm more than your buddy. I'm not a meth head.
I don't crap my pants one oh five nine x.
We do, so we might as well have a good time.
Toe got hoe gut t x at.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
One o five nine.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm really good at stuff that has like no value.
Like I just.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Picked up a cup of drink and iced and somebody
left in here with no lid, and I fired across
the room at a trash container and buried it into container,
perfect three point shot without spilling a drop anywhere. But
that won't get you nowhere. I'm one of the two
(06:59):
or three best all hockey coaches ever. That didn't make
me money. It costs me money. But it's nice to
be good at something. It's calls at the fifteens dial
eight three three four one two w xject. We still
don't have sponsors for this, which upsets me. I might
(07:19):
have a Oh, I got an idea for if Tom
gets hired in New York Giants, I'm gonna try to
get hold of Gray Giannati. He used to be at
the b team here, super good radio host, good guy too.
If it has stayed here, he'd be bigger than me
by now. So I'm glad he left. He's at New York, uh,
doing mornings with Boomer Assize and then just killing it.
(07:40):
But if tom On would get hired by the Giants,
I would offer to do a segment with Boomer and
g O every week about Tomlin free of charge. In fact,
i'd pay them. In fact, i'd move up there if
I had to. I'd do like an hour a day
every day about Tomlin because he would fail so bad
with the Giants, and I would just love it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh, I would just love it. So let's go to Jimmy. Jimmy,
you're on calls at the fifteenes.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Hey saves one six y six?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
What up?
Speaker 6 (08:10):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
A couple of things. That old number still works. I
tried the new number, and I tried the old numbers,
so that works.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, hebra Hammer said it too.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But now I'm just confused, and maybe I just won't
take calls acceptance easier when I do.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Anyway, go ahead, Yeah, the second thing complete agreement. Tomlin
is solely responsible for everything. And the third question is
our thing is Dino threatening you on you know, on
social media as well, Dina Tomlin, did he threaten me? No?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It has he?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, no, no, not me, not me? I mean now,
just the one tailgate guy in the Jersey Jerry guy. Okay,
because that's I mean, Dino Tomlin's a young guy. Stuff
like TikTok and and that sort of social media. That's
his world. Let's go to Phil fill you're all with
Mark fail You're on the air. Let's go to Paul Paul,
(09:08):
You're on the air.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
Andy Reich's time is coming up in Kansas City pretty soon.
Do you think Mike Tomlin would be a good fit
for Kansas City?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Why on earth would they want him?
Speaker 6 (09:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I mean, I mean, why would anybody want him to
coach unless they were desperate, like, for example, the New
York Football Giants.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
He's been a failure.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He's only won a playoff game in four of eighteen seasons,
hasn't won a playoff game in eight years. People say
he'd have a job again in five minutes. He might
with a crappy team like the Giants, but no good
team is going to get rid of their coach to
hire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Okay, thanks, Mark.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Let's go to John. John you're all with Mark.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Hey, Mark, I wanted to know why do you think
the national media is so expatuated Mike Mom? Did they
not watch the games? Or they we'll get records.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They don't look at anything except that he's a good coach,
just because nobody can tell me why he's a good coach.
It's just because the no losing record thing is a
low ceiling.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
To hang the hat on.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And to be very frank, and I'm the only one
who dare say this, Nobody wants to criticize football's pre
eminent black coach. They they think that's bad optics.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Fair.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know what's even worse optics?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Only having won playoff games in four of your four
years of your eighteen coaching, that's bad optics.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's go to Dino Dino Tomlin?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
No, not you know, Tomlin?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Sorry, go ahead?
Speaker 6 (10:44):
What do you want?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
First off?
Speaker 6 (10:48):
Do you have a better chance of catching Sickle South
than the Steelers going into Baltimore?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
H goodbye, goodbye. Let's go to Matt. Matt, you're on
with double M. Good day, I said, good day.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Do you think it is possible for Tomin to coach
his way out of being a Hall of Fame coach.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
No, No, I mean I think he should never be
a Hall of Fame coach in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
But I don't think he can coach his way out.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think I think the early resume he compiled, again
with being his heirs preeminent black coach and having spent
all his time with one team, guarantees him entrey and decent.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Now let me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Let's say Tom and a coach with three different teams
in nineteen years, okay, and it compiled exactly the same
record as now with the Steelers. Do you think he
would be looked upon as an automatic Hall of Famer.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I do not, And that was that's my point.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I don't either.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
The further away we get from the Cower era, the
more we realize that he's not the coach that everyone
thinks he is.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So no, No, he won. He won with Cower's team
leaders in culture, and I used to really disagree with that,
because whoever wins is, whoever wins.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
The coach is the coach at that time.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
But now what's happened since in the further away we
get from the Cower era.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It seems undeniable, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
In fact, I'm beginning to think that Bill Cower was
even better at coaching that we thought he was. And
I thought he was pretty good in the first place.
I think Bill knew when to have a bad year.
I think Bill knew that sometimes you had to take
a step backwards to take many forward. The only thing
I can really criticize Bill for he didn't finish. He
(12:33):
lost a lot of AFC championship games, but at least
he got there, unlike Tomin too often.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah, he's won a couple, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Thank you for the call. Yeah, Cower was in two
Super Bowls. Tomlin's been in two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Now, I want to throw this out there before we
get ready for Josh, Joey and hockey talk. Who does
Aaron Rodgers look more like when he like addresses the
media or when he sits on the bench when he's
off the field at games, which is a lot because
the Steeler offense barely has the ball. Does you look
like a prisoner of war, a wartime president, an old
(13:15):
man who's waiting for the bus and hasn't been told
us just not going to come, or Joe Walsh after
five years with the Eagles eight three three four one
two WXDX. We got Josh, Joey just drown the corner
on one O five to nine.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
How it's the x's kick Ass Christmas Show with highly
Suspect Tuesday Deceimmer Nights at Stay Je Get your tickets
now at WXTX dot com. Okay, highly Suspects with flight
attendant tis this He's into the Jolly forty Rocket something.
(14:01):
It's the Exit is chick Ass Christmas Show from one
oh five to nine d X.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
If you can't get enough, if you're Pittsburgh Steelers, then
check out the latest podcast from Steelers Nation Radio, a
part of the Steelers Audio network.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Smart Mad Good Mason is always a component of any
nice day.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Thank you for making my day. Yeah, what you said?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The Exit one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
TJ Watt back in practice today.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Thank god River Hans had their championship celebration down town today.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Looked like a nice turnout.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Congratulations again to them and owner Tuffy Shallenberger.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
But the Penguins are Tampa tonight.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Joining me now, presumably from the lobby of Mon's Venus
from the athletic is Josh Joey Josh.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We'll get to the game tonight in just a second.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
But that win at Philadelphia Monday was great, maybe the
best sixty minutes they played all year, regardless of who
the opposition was and the result.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
It was great for them for so many reasons that
they played a great game. They really couldn't buy a
call all night, and they got pretty unlucky, I think
in regards to the officiating, and yet they didn't get
unfazed by it. They just kind of carried on, and
the special teams have been so good all season long.
The fact that it was the Flyers only added to it.
(15:21):
And I also think having Boco a mama in the lineup,
for what it's worth, Mark, the Flyers were running their
mouths an awful lot in October. That game got out
of control and overtime they sure didn't get out of
control with him on the ice the other night. That
was just a satisfying victory for the Penguins. I think
in every way.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Didn't he mama challenge half the way like three times
and he backed on every time.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Well last year he told me he challenged him to
a fight three times in one game, and he said no,
each time, and in the third period the other night
he did again, and as Ryan Shay said, it's too
bad that he said no again. I'd kind of like
to see that fight. But obviously Garnott Hathaway, who very
much was born to be a flyer, So I'm glad
he's finally there. He wants nothing to do with Boco,
(16:07):
no question.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Sid Mars's Philly is like the rivalry between the Windshield
and the bug gets a squash match on w CW
Saturday night at six o five, But it's so compelling
you just want to see it happen again and again.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
You know, Mark, I've and covering the Penguins for sixteen years,
and I don't think there's anything I enjoy more than
covering games in that building. When they announce him in
the starting lineup, like you've never heard booing like that
in your life, they just go crazy for it. It's
theatrical and you always know how the story's going to
end because Sid just enjoys playing in that place. He
(16:46):
enjoys silencing those people so very much. I really think
when his career is over, that's one thing that he
will miss. He has a genuine dislike for that fan
base and for that franchise is I think everybody knows
by now. He doesn't really come out and say it
very often anymore, but it's real.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We all know it is.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
And he has scored more than nine percent of his
NHL goals against the Flyers. The next closest team I
think is the Islanders. He's scored like six point eight
percent against them. So he's a natural playmaker Mark, But
when it comes to that team, he likes to do
it all himself. And I don't think that's whatcidental.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Now he was the game's number one star, correct did
he come out for the little turn? But he does
that sometimes in Philly.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I don't believe he did. When he was younger, he
would do that on occasion. To my knowledge, he did
not do that, but I always, I always enjoy when
he does that in feel like you know, there are
times when the Flyers have beaten the Penguins there, they
will intentionally make him the number three star just so
they can booth him one last time. But they haven't
(17:51):
beaten the Penguins very much in that building recently.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Let's be Frank sin Sid score fifty goals and if
he does and the Penguins make the playoffs, he's got
to be MVP.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Right well, the first pushing Yeah, I think he can.
I don't know that he will. I think he'll score
at least forty at this point. I wouldn't rule out
fifty the way he's going. I suppose it is possible.
I've said all along, Mark, if the Pigments make the
playoffs and if he gets close to fifty goals or
(18:22):
around one hundred points, he's going to be in the
conversation for sure. The only problem he will have is
that right now, even though it's early in the season,
that Nathan McKinnon might be.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Running away with that award.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
He's really opened up a gap in the scoring race,
and the Avalanche have only lost one game in regulation
through like twenty six games, which is incredible, So that
will be the chief competition. But trust me, I'm one
of the people who votes for this award, and I
know the people who do. They love the good story,
they love the good narrative, and that would be an
incredible story. And the fact that he only has two
(18:57):
MVPs when he really should have four or five, I'm
sure we'll enter into people's minds as well. What's your
take on the unveiling of the kid line at Philadelphia
Kindle between coyn and McGroarty. I like it a lot,
just in theory. I like it because I don't think
it puts too much pressure on Ben Kendall, say to
force the puck us in or something like that. You
(19:19):
got three guys who are basically new to the NHL
playing together, and I also like how stylistically different all
three of them are. I think that actually can make
for a good line. Rucker mcgroarty's going to do the rugged,
dirty work, that's what he does best. Ben Kendall he
can score goals, We've already seen that. He's just a
natural center. And Coyvenan is a talented playmaker, a talented
(19:43):
pesser of the puck. So you have a little bit
of everything on that line. And even though it was
just one nightmark I saw a lot of chemistry there.
And I would also say that, you know, even though
they're young, McGroarty and Kindle in particular are very advanced
offensively for forwards. Their AI, which I think has a
chance to help that line really stick.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Can Jari keep up his performance and if he does,
doesn't get him traded. It's already made him apparently the
number one goalie here.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
If he keeps playing like this, and if the Penguins
remain in the playoffs, in playoff position, I don't know
that he will get traded. Maybe in the summer. I
don't know that.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
No, you gotta because more is going to be number
one next year. Anyway, you gotta do it if somebody
wants him and the returns even Okay.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
That has long been my instinct. Yes, the only risk
Kyle runs if he does do that, and if Miroshaw
isn't quite ready, and if she Loves keeps playing the
way he has last two games, and at that cost,
you know, Crosby a chance to play in the playoffs
if they missed the playoffs by two points. That's something
that will be on Kyle's mind impulsively. I agree with you.
(20:55):
I still don't trust Jari. I don't really think the
Penguins do. And if you can unload that contract, it
probably is the appropriate thing to do. But you also
cannot deny that he's the best goaltender right now.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh and I also want to I Jost that the
room trust him and always has however, inexplicably.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Right right now for sure, and now can he keep
this up? He's never really done this for an entire season.
He's had a couple of great first halves that have
gotten him into the All Star Games before, which is
kind of feels like what he's doing right now. It's conceivable,
but I have to think a drop and play is
inevitable at some point given his history. But that said,
(21:35):
I give him credit for what he has done. This
has been really top notch goaltending all season from him.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
We're talking to Josh Shelley of The Athletic Josh. The
biggest story, however, relatively quietly, might be the defensive corps.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It should be crap, but it's actually pretty good.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I was thinking about that this morning, and you know,
knock on wood. They've also been really healthy on the
blue one, which has been a big deal for the Penguins.
Kyle Dubas had an incredible summer when you think about
just the hiring of Dan Muse, which which certainly looks
good right now, and the three first round picks, two
of them look like might be absolute stars already, and
(22:17):
every other move he has made. But when you go
back and look at his best moves in the summer.
Pretty high on that list is getting Parker Waterspoon for
two years and one million a year. Like this guy
is a legitimate top four defenseman such of a steady influence,
plays a lot like Marcus Patterson. He's been a perfect
fit with Eric Carlson. I think he has helped make
(22:39):
Eric better. That guy alone has made a massive difference
and the Penguins now have a legitimate top pairing and
that's no small thing. Ryan Shake keeps getting better. He
plays a lot like Waterspoon. He's nothing flashy, but he's
just a good, solid defenseman. He's been a very good
defense partner for Crystal Tang. And I'll tell you Mark,
(23:01):
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I really thought
the other night in Philly may have been Ryan Grave's
best game of the Penguin. Not only was he good,
but he actually played with a physical edge, which he
doesn't do enough. And you know, a guy that big
can make a difference when he does play with that edge,
and he did it against the Flyers. So the blue
line man top the bottom has been way better than
(23:21):
anybody could have expected.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And Carlson is confusing me. He's playing against the grain
of the last two seasons. Everything he did wrong, he's
doing right. He knows exactly when too when not to.
And I'm sorry, Josh, I don't care why. But it's
the Sweden thing, the Olympic thing. What else could it be.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
Well, I know that's important to him, so I think
that's playing a role.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It's the coaching thing though.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Well, yeah, that was my next point. Eric has a
very passive, aggressive way of letting you know that he
didn't like Mike Sullivan and Todd Rudin all that much.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
No, and I don't.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
And Eric's not an easy guy to coach, we all
know that, but is clearly pushing the right buttons with him.
And what Carlson is doing more than anything Mark, Like,
if you watch him in the defensive zone, it's just
the way he's using his skating ability to defend, like
that's his greatest asset and he's just working really hard
in the defensive zone, something not sure as hell never
(24:17):
said about him the last two years, but it gets
obvious when you watch him play. He's put it in
the effort. Even his penalty killing has been pretty good,
and even though he only has one goal, like the
goals are gonna come, and he's still magical when he
has the puck on a stick. I mean that that
goes without saying some of the plays he's making every night,
and this is like old school, vintage Carlson stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What's the latest done? Injuries?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Who's going to get back and win? I know Raquel
looks like he's still a ways out right.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
Yeah, Raquel is probably coming back, I would guess right
around Christmas mark and that will be a big deal.
We're going to see BRAZIAU and a Charie back at
some point, probably in the next they're on the road trip,
I think, just for the sake of practicing with the team,
but at some point during this upcoming five game homestand
(25:07):
both of those guys will back. We'll be back, and
I think Brazo in particular, given the way he started
the season and the way the second line's been impacted
with him being away boy, having him back is really
going to be a nice thing for up getting Malkin
and Anthony Matha.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Where's Tampa at? Are they too old for a playoff run?
Actually they're not as old as I thought. They're all
like thirty something. Vassi's thirty one, Jake's thirty one, and
given this conference in the way the standings are packed,
I don't know, but still I suspect that their window
it's not closed.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
I actually covered the first round series for the Athletic
back in April between Florida and Tampa, and I really
thought Tampa was dead at that point, just watching the
way Florida destroyed them in that series. But you said
it this conference, like who is the best team? I
don't know. I don't think there is one, And I
think under the radar Betsilevsky has kind of found his
(26:05):
form once again.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, in the last couple of years for sure.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Yeah, and the Penguins are going to miss him tonight.
I think he's under the weather so he's not starting tonight,
which is a good thing for the Penguins. If he
is back to being himself, I think it's conceivable because
they still have as much top end talent as anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Mark Jake's still real good, isn't he.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean, you know, I know he's a top line
guy playing in the power play, and you figured that,
you knew he'd go there. He didn't need Sid. Sid
certainly got him going. But Jake could play with anybody
now and score.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I mean, he is truly one of the most steady
offensive players of his time. The guy is just automatic
thirty five to forty goals, eighty to ninety points every
season now, and he and Kucherov on the power play
are frightening together because they've just think the game so
much the way Sid does. Quite honestly, if you look
(27:04):
at Jay Kensel's numbers, like we don't necessarily view him
in this way, he's putting together what could be Hall
of Fame numbers. By the end of his career, he
has a chance to score five hundred goals mark. And
he's one of the great playoff performers ever. Really, if
you look at I think he's eighth or ninth goals
per game ever in the postseason for a five to
ten seventy pounds kids from Nebraska. He's put together one
(27:27):
hell of a career. He's really a great player.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Here's something I never thought i'd say, Josh, you know
who's growing on me. Kevin Hayes in small dose, and
I did like the late rub it In goal against
Philly that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
That scored big points. I wish you'd get a chin, though.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
He did too.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
I will say this for him. Everybody in that locker
room loves him. He's kind of the class clown, I think.
And he's one of those guys you can't have, like
twenty of those guys in your life, bucker room. But
sometimes maybe it's good to have one or two because
when you look and I don't have to tell you this, Mark,
but I mean on the Penguins roster, at least Crosby
(28:09):
and Malkola attack and they're so high strung, they're so
serious about hockey. Sometimes it's good to have a kind
of a Phil Kessel like personality, which I think Hayes
is a little bit. And he hasn't played horribly like
I understand he's slow.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
We all know that small doses in the right role.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean, that's okay. If he might end up
being their thirteenth forward, I think he probably will when
they're healthy, that's okay. I mean I don't think I
think he's in a phase in his career where I
don't think he'll be disruptive if he's not playing. I
think he's got to chat with him about it this morning.
I think he's pretty grateful for you know, the career
that he's had and the money that he's made. And
(28:50):
I just think he enjoys playing with the Penguins and
being on Sidney Crosby's team. He made that pretty clear.
Everything's just coming up Roses right now for the Penguin's mark.
I don't know that. As the kids like to say,
the vibes are pretty good around this team right now.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, I mean Kevin Hayes I just tweeted he's kind
of got the freebird thing going too.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Like Kevin ps.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Hayes purely skilled, you know what they say, Josh, the
further down the block you went, the batter it got.
We need a bam bam maybe bam bam boco e Mom,
I don't know, Josh.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Oh, Josh. Where are they at right?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I mean, there's a tendency to overreact to them being
in a playoff spot, and since playing great, I question
how much they really established though again, given the standings,
I think they're a playoff team maybe and I can't
go better than that. And my biggest fear, like always,
is that they just missed because of the implication with
where they would draft well, and.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
That's the one thing that can't allow to happen. If
they're going to go for it, go for it, have
your storybook playoff run. And it's not like they're going
to give up future assets in the process, so it
wouldn't really hurt them to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
But no, but nobody. You can't do.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It right right, and then there will be an expectation
and we both know from who to go get some help.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Of course there will, and that's one of the things
that makes this team so fascinating right now. But when
I watched them play like, I don't think there's a
fluky element to their record right now. I think they're
a lot better than we thought. I think Dubas made
four or five really really strong additions this summer, and
they're getting good goaltending, So all of a sudden, yeah,
they can be a playoff team. I think we'll know
(30:33):
a lot more about this team by Christmas. The schedule's brutal.
This road trip alone at Tampa and that Dallas, like,
on paper, you're not going to find two better teams
other than.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Colorado in the whole league.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
And then you got a five game homestand coming up
with some really good teams finish off with Connor McDavid
and the oiler's coming to town. It's a really nasty
schedule in December. If the Penguins can survive this, go
around five hundred still be a playoffs spout of Christmas.
When the schedule really stoppens in January, it might be
(31:04):
time at that point to say, yeah, maybe they're certainly
not a Cup contender, but are they a playoff team
a wild card team? Yeah, maybe they are.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Just real late because it just popped into my mind.
You think they'll keep you, mama up. I think they
ought to. You know what I've often said, Josh, it
doesn't matter who who the last two wingers are on
game night, as long as they can kind of provide something.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And he does.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
And I always say that Crosby and Malkolan will very
adamantly tell you that they're more comfortable when a guy
like that is in the lineup, and that's worth something.
And by the way, he did more in that game
just from a hockey standpoint than coping and did a
ten games in all seriousness, He's not terrible. This isn't
Eric Goddard or something. You know, He's not a goon
(31:49):
like he can actually play a little bit. I think
he should stay. I think he will for.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The time being.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
We could see him up and down throughout the season,
but I bet he plays twenty twenty five games for
the Penguins this season. I think they're starting to sell
themselves on him and the big guys like having them around.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
How about lazat just drilling the guy in the nuts
and Clifton no selling Zegrets.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It was just like they're soft.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
The Penguins not only beat the Flyers, beat them bad,
but showed their.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Soft I don't know if you in my article this morning.
I spoke with Clifton yesterday. I said, hey, what did
you say to Zegres when he did the fake head bump?
And he said, well, I looked at him and I said,
as if I'm afraid of you, And he said, they
have some guys that might be able to get me
in that lineup, and he's sure as hell isn't one
of them. And yeah, I mean that was it. And
you saw what Lazatte did to Hathaway in the first period.
(32:40):
He sticks them right in the nuts and nobody goes
after him the rest of the game. That's that's not
the flyers we're told about that they did look soft
after that incident, and that's not something I was expecting.
So that's why I said that was a very satisfying
victory for the Penguins on many levels.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Josh.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
When you asked Clifton, what did you say to him?
Were you expecting maybe a different answer?
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Kind of I was expecting and he wouldn't want to
answer the question, but he was actually very eager to
answer the question. And I got to this, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You're whipping on the obvious answer.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Oh no, it was their slapshot reference that I missed.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I told him his wife.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Oh well, I can't really say that on the air,
I don't think, but I think we were all thinking
of pan or hand in that moment.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Hey, hanra Han, that's Josh Helley.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'm Mark Madden. One O five to nine. Tonight's the
Pens Face the Lightning.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Game time is seven, Our coverage starts at six here
every game and the best coverage right here on your
Home of the Pens one O five.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
Nine the X.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
This hour the Mark Madden Shows, brought to you by
Bud Light. Probably served to Fontine
This is the Mark Madden Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I guess dial eight three three four one two w xdx,
or you can follow me on Twitter at Mark Madden. Next,
don't forget Tonight I'll be watching the Penguins at Dino's
in Latrobe right on Route thirty. Great popcorn, great wings.
And then Sunday I'll be at the Polish Club, the
PNC Club in Shooting, Pa Up near Wampam Up near
(00:26):
Elwood City. Dick Allen, Donnie Iris. I go through every year.
It's the best. They go nuts. You think I'm a
celebrity here, put me on the sticks in a Polish club,
havin the guilt, No, that's not Polish. Dobrah Shanka. Yeah,
the Jack hamp thing. The Polish people love me, so
join me. I think you have to be a member,
(00:46):
but come anyway. They'll let you in. At the PNC
Club in Shooting for the Steelers and Ravens at one
pm Sunday. It's gonna be a big one. So uh,
can the Steelers shut down? Dereck Henry. I always like
discussion like this in the middle of a season. It's
very evidently going nowhere at six and six, and the
(01:10):
product looks worse than six and six. I love saying, well,
what should the Steelers do? How can the Steelers fix it?
And the answers are nothing that they're willing to try.
They're not going to use them. Middlemore, Rogers just said
yesterday that the deep balls aren't there. Friarm We've talked
(01:30):
about being on the pay No Mind list very graciously,
but he didn't sound optimistic that it would change. Boy,
Like I said, when Rogers talks now and he just
turned forty two, he looks like he just turned seventy two.
He looks like a prisoner of war, a wartime president, or,
like I said, an old man who's waiting at a
(01:52):
bus stop and doesn't understand that the bus just isn't coming.
When Aaron Rodgers talks now, like old and gray and
defeated and old and frustrated and old and like he's
ready for it to end, and not just the season.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
He's ready for it to end, and not just the season.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
On Sunday, Rogers said that some receivers aren't attending film watching.
Farmers said, that's not true. Nobody followed up with Tom
or Rodgers this week, and who cares anyway? This is
like sifting through crap to find more crap. There's no
diamond at the bottom of the sifting pail, just more excrement.
(02:32):
It's a team that's six and six and eight won
a playoff game in eight years. What's there to microanalyze.
It's a bad, prehistoric, deadly dull football franchise run by incompetence.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And there's also a bad side that was a Hunter S.
Thompson reference. I am on fire.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Today, even a very few of you are smart enough
to know it. Okay, up, here's part two of my
Tomlin ran from the first hour?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Are you with me so far? Eagles reference on Fire.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Mike Tomlin has coached nineteen seasons as a head coach
in the NFL, including this one. He's won a playoff
game in four of those seasons. Four seasons out of
eighteen going on nineteen, Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game
in the last eight seasons. He won a Super Bowl
with Bill Cowers players. He won a Super Bowl with
Bill Cowards leaders. He won a Super Bowl with Bill
(03:28):
Cowers culture. All that becomes more evident the further away
we get. Mike Tomlin has assembled lesser teams. He's not
developed new leaders, and the culture has been terrible for years.
Tomlin hasn't been able to create anything on his own
besides mediocrity, and he's refused help from any football mine
(03:49):
better than his.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Like LeBeau an Arians, he has.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Instead assembled a cut rate staff of incompetence with the
FedEx guys, the OC and his Lackey as the DC.
So I ask, once again, how is any of this
not Mike Tomlin's fault, not only the current state, but
the entire decline. You a doul't think he's a Hall
(04:14):
of Fame coach, but Mike tomin was never even a
good coach. That's what I think anyway, A three three
four to one two WSDX. I've been saying all this
for years, and I get proven a little more right
every year. And like I said in the show's open,
(04:34):
nobody has ever been more at fault for anything than
Mike Tomlin is at fault for everything that's wrong with
the Steelers. He's the head coach, he's really the defensive coordinator.
He's responsible for the whole prehistoric rock Fight outlook. He
has final say on all personnel decisions, including the draft.
He is at fault for everything everything, everything once he
(04:58):
get fault for say it with me everything, and yet
I turn on get up, which is my mistake.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, the Steelers should do him a favor. Let him
go somewhere else where. We could begin again, and there's
no doubt he'd win. Okay, send him to the New
York Football Giants, I have doubted and win, and it
would be just oh my god, oh my god, oh
my god. There's some days I would like to quit
this job more than life itself. If he ever goes
to the Giants, I'd work ten hour days, twelve hour days.
(05:26):
I'd be on around the clock to witness that failure.
Oh my god, oh my god, oh, just thinking about it,
just thinking about it. If I could go to a
break right now, to kind of duck under the console,
I would.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I would. Can I how much time left in this segment?
Damn it?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I can't then again at this point even during I
mean it, could you know it doesn't take. I mean
just saying, okay, anyway, get your calls in for calls
at the fifteens, Dino, Tom, And if you're listening to
Mike's son that wants to fight everybody, your dad sucks
(06:03):
and should be fired. Call now eight three three four
one two wxdx. That's eight three three four one two wxdx.
But I'm more than your buddy. I'm not a meth head.
I don't crap my pants one oh five nine x.
We do, so we might as well have a good time.
Toe got hoe gut t x at.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
One o five nine.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm really good at stuff that has like no value.
Like I just.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Picked up a cup of drink and iced and somebody
left in here with no lid, and I fired across
the room at a trash container and buried it into container,
perfect three point shot without spilling a drop anywhere. But
that won't get you nowhere. I'm one of the two
(06:59):
or three best all hockey coaches ever. That didn't make
me money. It costs me money. But it's nice to
be good at something. It's calls at the fifteens dial
eight three three four one two w xject. We still
don't have sponsors for this, which upsets me. I might
(07:19):
have a Oh, I got an idea for if Tom
gets hired in New York Giants, I'm gonna try to
get hold of Gray Giannati. He used to be at
the b team here, super good radio host, good guy too.
If it has stayed here, he'd be bigger than me
by now. So I'm glad he left. He's at New York, uh,
doing mornings with Boomer Assize and then just killing it.
(07:40):
But if tom On would get hired by the Giants,
I would offer to do a segment with Boomer and
g O every week about Tomlin free of charge. In fact,
i'd pay them. In fact, i'd move up there if
I had to. I'd do like an hour a day
every day about Tomlin because he would fail so bad
with the Giants, and I would just love it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh, I would just love it. So let's go to Jimmy. Jimmy,
you're on calls at the fifteenes.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Hey saves one six y six?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
What up?
Speaker 6 (08:10):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
A couple of things. That old number still works. I
tried the new number, and I tried the old numbers,
so that works.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, hebra Hammer said it too.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But now I'm just confused, and maybe I just won't
take calls acceptance easier when I do.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Anyway, go ahead, Yeah, the second thing complete agreement. Tomlin
is solely responsible for everything. And the third question is
our thing is Dino threatening you on you know, on
social media as well, Dina Tomlin, did he threaten me? No?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It has he?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, no, no, not me, not me? I mean now,
just the one tailgate guy in the Jersey Jerry guy. Okay,
because that's I mean, Dino Tomlin's a young guy. Stuff
like TikTok and and that sort of social media. That's
his world. Let's go to Phil fill you're all with
Mark fail You're on the air. Let's go to Paul Paul,
(09:08):
You're on the air.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
Andy Reich's time is coming up in Kansas City pretty soon.
Do you think Mike Tomlin would be a good fit
for Kansas City?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Why on earth would they want him?
Speaker 6 (09:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I mean, I mean, why would anybody want him to
coach unless they were desperate, like, for example, the New
York Football Giants.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
He's been a failure.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He's only won a playoff game in four of eighteen seasons,
hasn't won a playoff game in eight years. People say
he'd have a job again in five minutes. He might
with a crappy team like the Giants, but no good
team is going to get rid of their coach to
hire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Okay, thanks, Mark.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Let's go to John. John you're all with Mark.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Hey, Mark, I wanted to know why do you think
the national media is so expatuated Mike Mom? Did they
not watch the games? Or they we'll get records.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They don't look at anything except that he's a good coach,
just because nobody can tell me why he's a good coach.
It's just because the no losing record thing is a
low ceiling.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
To hang the hat on.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And to be very frank, and I'm the only one
who dare say this, Nobody wants to criticize football's pre
eminent black coach. They they think that's bad optics.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Fair.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know what's even worse optics?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Only having won playoff games in four of your four
years of your eighteen coaching, that's bad optics.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's go to Dino Dino Tomlin?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
No, not you know, Tomlin?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Sorry, go ahead?
Speaker 6 (10:44):
What do you want?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
First off?
Speaker 6 (10:48):
Do you have a better chance of catching Sickle South
than the Steelers going into Baltimore?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
H goodbye, goodbye. Let's go to Matt. Matt, you're on
with double M. Good day, I said, good day.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Do you think it is possible for Tomin to coach
his way out of being a Hall of Fame coach.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
No, No, I mean I think he should never be
a Hall of Fame coach in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
But I don't think he can coach his way out.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think I think the early resume he compiled, again
with being his heirs preeminent black coach and having spent
all his time with one team, guarantees him entrey and decent.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Now let me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Let's say Tom and a coach with three different teams
in nineteen years, okay, and it compiled exactly the same
record as now with the Steelers. Do you think he
would be looked upon as an automatic Hall of Famer.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I do not, And that was that's my point.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I don't either.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
The further away we get from the Cower era, the
more we realize that he's not the coach that everyone
thinks he is.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So no, No, he won. He won with Cower's team
leaders in culture, and I used to really disagree with that,
because whoever wins is, whoever wins.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
The coach is the coach at that time.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
But now what's happened since in the further away we
get from the Cower era.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It seems undeniable, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
In fact, I'm beginning to think that Bill Cower was
even better at coaching that we thought he was. And
I thought he was pretty good in the first place.
I think Bill knew when to have a bad year.
I think Bill knew that sometimes you had to take
a step backwards to take many forward. The only thing
I can really criticize Bill for he didn't finish. He
(12:33):
lost a lot of AFC championship games, but at least
he got there, unlike Tomin too often.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah, he's won a couple, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Thank you for the call. Yeah, Cower was in two
Super Bowls. Tomlin's been in two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Now, I want to throw this out there before we
get ready for Josh, Joey and hockey talk. Who does
Aaron Rodgers look more like when he like addresses the
media or when he sits on the bench when he's
off the field at games, which is a lot because
the Steeler offense barely has the ball. Does you look
like a prisoner of war, a wartime president, an old
(13:15):
man who's waiting for the bus and hasn't been told
us just not going to come, or Joe Walsh after
five years with the Eagles eight three three four one
two WXDX. We got Josh, Joey just drown the corner
on one O five to nine.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
How it's the x's kick Ass Christmas Show with highly
Suspect Tuesday Deceimmer Nights at Stay Je Get your tickets
now at WXTX dot com. Okay, highly Suspects with flight
attendant tis this He's into the Jolly forty Rocket something.
(14:01):
It's the Exit is chick Ass Christmas Show from one
oh five to nine d X.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
If you can't get enough, if you're Pittsburgh Steelers, then
check out the latest podcast from Steelers Nation Radio, a
part of the Steelers Audio network.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Smart Mad Good Mason is always a component of any
nice day.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Thank you for making my day. Yeah, what you said?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The Exit one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
TJ Watt back in practice today.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Thank god River Hans had their championship celebration down town today.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Looked like a nice turnout.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Congratulations again to them and owner Tuffy Shallenberger.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
But the Penguins are Tampa tonight.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Joining me now, presumably from the lobby of Mon's Venus
from the athletic is Josh Joey Josh.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We'll get to the game tonight in just a second.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
But that win at Philadelphia Monday was great, maybe the
best sixty minutes they played all year, regardless of who
the opposition was and the result.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
It was great for them for so many reasons that
they played a great game. They really couldn't buy a
call all night, and they got pretty unlucky, I think
in regards to the officiating, and yet they didn't get
unfazed by it. They just kind of carried on, and
the special teams have been so good all season long.
The fact that it was the Flyers only added to it.
(15:21):
And I also think having Boco a mama in the lineup,
for what it's worth, Mark, the Flyers were running their
mouths an awful lot in October. That game got out
of control and overtime they sure didn't get out of
control with him on the ice the other night. That
was just a satisfying victory for the Penguins. I think
in every way.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Didn't he mama challenge half the way like three times
and he backed on every time.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Well last year he told me he challenged him to
a fight three times in one game, and he said no,
each time, and in the third period the other night
he did again, and as Ryan Shay said, it's too
bad that he said no again. I'd kind of like
to see that fight. But obviously Garnott Hathaway, who very
much was born to be a flyer, So I'm glad
he's finally there. He wants nothing to do with Boco,
(16:07):
no question.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Sid Mars's Philly is like the rivalry between the Windshield
and the bug gets a squash match on w CW
Saturday night at six o five, But it's so compelling
you just want to see it happen again and again.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
You know, Mark, I've and covering the Penguins for sixteen years,
and I don't think there's anything I enjoy more than
covering games in that building. When they announce him in
the starting lineup, like you've never heard booing like that
in your life, they just go crazy for it. It's
theatrical and you always know how the story's going to
end because Sid just enjoys playing in that place. He
(16:46):
enjoys silencing those people so very much. I really think
when his career is over, that's one thing that he
will miss. He has a genuine dislike for that fan
base and for that franchise is I think everybody knows
by now. He doesn't really come out and say it
very often anymore, but it's real.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We all know it is.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
And he has scored more than nine percent of his
NHL goals against the Flyers. The next closest team I
think is the Islanders. He's scored like six point eight
percent against them. So he's a natural playmaker Mark, But
when it comes to that team, he likes to do
it all himself. And I don't think that's whatcidental.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Now he was the game's number one star, correct did
he come out for the little turn? But he does
that sometimes in Philly.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I don't believe he did. When he was younger, he
would do that on occasion. To my knowledge, he did
not do that, but I always, I always enjoy when
he does that in feel like you know, there are
times when the Flyers have beaten the Penguins there, they
will intentionally make him the number three star just so
they can booth him one last time. But they haven't
(17:51):
beaten the Penguins very much in that building recently.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Let's be Frank sin Sid score fifty goals and if
he does and the Penguins make the playoffs, he's got
to be MVP.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Right well, the first pushing Yeah, I think he can.
I don't know that he will. I think he'll score
at least forty at this point. I wouldn't rule out
fifty the way he's going. I suppose it is possible.
I've said all along, Mark, if the Pigments make the
playoffs and if he gets close to fifty goals or
(18:22):
around one hundred points, he's going to be in the
conversation for sure. The only problem he will have is
that right now, even though it's early in the season,
that Nathan McKinnon might be.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Running away with that award.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
He's really opened up a gap in the scoring race,
and the Avalanche have only lost one game in regulation
through like twenty six games, which is incredible, So that
will be the chief competition. But trust me, I'm one
of the people who votes for this award, and I
know the people who do. They love the good story,
they love the good narrative, and that would be an
incredible story. And the fact that he only has two
(18:57):
MVPs when he really should have four or five, I'm
sure we'll enter into people's minds as well. What's your
take on the unveiling of the kid line at Philadelphia
Kindle between coyn and McGroarty. I like it a lot,
just in theory. I like it because I don't think
it puts too much pressure on Ben Kendall, say to
force the puck us in or something like that. You
(19:19):
got three guys who are basically new to the NHL
playing together, and I also like how stylistically different all
three of them are. I think that actually can make
for a good line. Rucker mcgroarty's going to do the rugged,
dirty work, that's what he does best. Ben Kendall he
can score goals, We've already seen that. He's just a
natural center. And Coyvenan is a talented playmaker, a talented
(19:43):
pesser of the puck. So you have a little bit
of everything on that line. And even though it was
just one nightmark I saw a lot of chemistry there.
And I would also say that, you know, even though
they're young, McGroarty and Kindle in particular are very advanced
offensively for forwards. Their AI, which I think has a
chance to help that line really stick.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Can Jari keep up his performance and if he does,
doesn't get him traded. It's already made him apparently the
number one goalie here.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
If he keeps playing like this, and if the Penguins
remain in the playoffs, in playoff position, I don't know
that he will get traded. Maybe in the summer. I
don't know that.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
No, you gotta because more is going to be number
one next year. Anyway, you gotta do it if somebody
wants him and the returns even Okay.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
That has long been my instinct. Yes, the only risk
Kyle runs if he does do that, and if Miroshaw
isn't quite ready, and if she Loves keeps playing the
way he has last two games, and at that cost,
you know, Crosby a chance to play in the playoffs
if they missed the playoffs by two points. That's something
that will be on Kyle's mind impulsively. I agree with you.
(20:55):
I still don't trust Jari. I don't really think the
Penguins do. And if you can unload that contract, it
probably is the appropriate thing to do. But you also
cannot deny that he's the best goaltender right now.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh and I also want to I Jost that the
room trust him and always has however, inexplicably.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Right right now for sure, and now can he keep
this up? He's never really done this for an entire season.
He's had a couple of great first halves that have
gotten him into the All Star Games before, which is
kind of feels like what he's doing right now. It's conceivable,
but I have to think a drop and play is
inevitable at some point given his history. But that said,
(21:35):
I give him credit for what he has done. This
has been really top notch goaltending all season from him.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
We're talking to Josh Shelley of The Athletic Josh. The
biggest story, however, relatively quietly, might be the defensive corps.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It should be crap, but it's actually pretty good.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I was thinking about that this morning, and you know,
knock on wood. They've also been really healthy on the
blue one, which has been a big deal for the Penguins.
Kyle Dubas had an incredible summer when you think about
just the hiring of Dan Muse, which which certainly looks
good right now, and the three first round picks, two
of them look like might be absolute stars already, and
(22:17):
every other move he has made. But when you go
back and look at his best moves in the summer.
Pretty high on that list is getting Parker Waterspoon for
two years and one million a year. Like this guy
is a legitimate top four defenseman such of a steady influence,
plays a lot like Marcus Patterson. He's been a perfect
fit with Eric Carlson. I think he has helped make
(22:39):
Eric better. That guy alone has made a massive difference
and the Penguins now have a legitimate top pairing and
that's no small thing. Ryan Shake keeps getting better. He
plays a lot like Waterspoon. He's nothing flashy, but he's
just a good, solid defenseman. He's been a very good
defense partner for Crystal Tang. And I'll tell you Mark,
(23:01):
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I really thought
the other night in Philly may have been Ryan Grave's
best game of the Penguin. Not only was he good,
but he actually played with a physical edge, which he
doesn't do enough. And you know, a guy that big
can make a difference when he does play with that edge,
and he did it against the Flyers. So the blue
line man top the bottom has been way better than
(23:21):
anybody could have expected.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And Carlson is confusing me. He's playing against the grain
of the last two seasons. Everything he did wrong, he's
doing right. He knows exactly when too when not to.
And I'm sorry, Josh, I don't care why. But it's
the Sweden thing, the Olympic thing. What else could it be.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
Well, I know that's important to him, so I think
that's playing a role.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It's the coaching thing though.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Well, yeah, that was my next point. Eric has a
very passive, aggressive way of letting you know that he
didn't like Mike Sullivan and Todd Rudin all that much.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
No, and I don't.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
And Eric's not an easy guy to coach, we all
know that, but is clearly pushing the right buttons with him.
And what Carlson is doing more than anything Mark, Like,
if you watch him in the defensive zone, it's just
the way he's using his skating ability to defend, like
that's his greatest asset and he's just working really hard
in the defensive zone, something not sure as hell never
(24:17):
said about him the last two years, but it gets
obvious when you watch him play. He's put it in
the effort. Even his penalty killing has been pretty good,
and even though he only has one goal, like the
goals are gonna come, and he's still magical when he
has the puck on a stick. I mean that that
goes without saying some of the plays he's making every night,
and this is like old school, vintage Carlson stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What's the latest done? Injuries?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Who's going to get back and win? I know Raquel
looks like he's still a ways out right.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
Yeah, Raquel is probably coming back, I would guess right
around Christmas mark and that will be a big deal.
We're going to see BRAZIAU and a Charie back at
some point, probably in the next they're on the road trip,
I think, just for the sake of practicing with the team,
but at some point during this upcoming five game homestand
(25:07):
both of those guys will back. We'll be back, and
I think Brazo in particular, given the way he started
the season and the way the second line's been impacted
with him being away boy, having him back is really
going to be a nice thing for up getting Malkin
and Anthony Matha.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Where's Tampa at? Are they too old for a playoff run?
Actually they're not as old as I thought. They're all
like thirty something. Vassi's thirty one, Jake's thirty one, and
given this conference in the way the standings are packed,
I don't know, but still I suspect that their window
it's not closed.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
I actually covered the first round series for the Athletic
back in April between Florida and Tampa, and I really
thought Tampa was dead at that point, just watching the
way Florida destroyed them in that series. But you said
it this conference, like who is the best team? I
don't know. I don't think there is one, And I
think under the radar Betsilevsky has kind of found his
(26:05):
form once again.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, in the last couple of years for sure.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Yeah, and the Penguins are going to miss him tonight.
I think he's under the weather so he's not starting tonight,
which is a good thing for the Penguins. If he
is back to being himself, I think it's conceivable because
they still have as much top end talent as anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Mark Jake's still real good, isn't he.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean, you know, I know he's a top line
guy playing in the power play, and you figured that,
you knew he'd go there. He didn't need Sid. Sid
certainly got him going. But Jake could play with anybody
now and score.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I mean, he is truly one of the most steady
offensive players of his time. The guy is just automatic
thirty five to forty goals, eighty to ninety points every
season now, and he and Kucherov on the power play
are frightening together because they've just think the game so
much the way Sid does. Quite honestly, if you look
(27:04):
at Jay Kensel's numbers, like we don't necessarily view him
in this way, he's putting together what could be Hall
of Fame numbers. By the end of his career, he
has a chance to score five hundred goals mark. And
he's one of the great playoff performers ever. Really, if
you look at I think he's eighth or ninth goals
per game ever in the postseason for a five to
ten seventy pounds kids from Nebraska. He's put together one
(27:27):
hell of a career. He's really a great player.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Here's something I never thought i'd say, Josh, you know
who's growing on me. Kevin Hayes in small dose, and
I did like the late rub it In goal against
Philly that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
That scored big points. I wish you'd get a chin, though.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
He did too.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
I will say this for him. Everybody in that locker
room loves him. He's kind of the class clown, I think.
And he's one of those guys you can't have, like
twenty of those guys in your life, bucker room. But
sometimes maybe it's good to have one or two because
when you look and I don't have to tell you this, Mark,
but I mean on the Penguins roster, at least Crosby
(28:09):
and Malkola attack and they're so high strung, they're so
serious about hockey. Sometimes it's good to have a kind
of a Phil Kessel like personality, which I think Hayes
is a little bit. And he hasn't played horribly like
I understand he's slow.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
We all know that small doses in the right role.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean, that's okay. If he might end up
being their thirteenth forward, I think he probably will when
they're healthy, that's okay. I mean I don't think I
think he's in a phase in his career where I
don't think he'll be disruptive if he's not playing. I
think he's got to chat with him about it this morning.
I think he's pretty grateful for you know, the career
that he's had and the money that he's made. And
(28:50):
I just think he enjoys playing with the Penguins and
being on Sidney Crosby's team. He made that pretty clear.
Everything's just coming up Roses right now for the Penguin's mark.
I don't know that. As the kids like to say,
the vibes are pretty good around this team right now.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, I mean Kevin Hayes I just tweeted he's kind
of got the freebird thing going too.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Like Kevin ps.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Hayes purely skilled, you know what they say, Josh, the
further down the block you went, the batter it got.
We need a bam bam maybe bam bam boco e Mom,
I don't know, Josh.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Oh, Josh. Where are they at right?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I mean, there's a tendency to overreact to them being
in a playoff spot, and since playing great, I question
how much they really established though again, given the standings,
I think they're a playoff team maybe and I can't
go better than that. And my biggest fear, like always,
is that they just missed because of the implication with
where they would draft well, and.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
That's the one thing that can't allow to happen. If
they're going to go for it, go for it, have
your storybook playoff run. And it's not like they're going
to give up future assets in the process, so it
wouldn't really hurt them to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
But no, but nobody. You can't do.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It right right, and then there will be an expectation
and we both know from who to go get some help.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Of course there will, and that's one of the things
that makes this team so fascinating right now. But when
I watched them play like, I don't think there's a
fluky element to their record right now. I think they're
a lot better than we thought. I think Dubas made
four or five really really strong additions this summer, and
they're getting good goaltending, So all of a sudden, yeah,
they can be a playoff team. I think we'll know
(30:33):
a lot more about this team by Christmas. The schedule's brutal.
This road trip alone at Tampa and that Dallas, like,
on paper, you're not going to find two better teams
other than.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Colorado in the whole league.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
And then you got a five game homestand coming up
with some really good teams finish off with Connor McDavid
and the oiler's coming to town. It's a really nasty
schedule in December. If the Penguins can survive this, go
around five hundred still be a playoffs spout of Christmas.
When the schedule really stoppens in January, it might be
(31:04):
time at that point to say, yeah, maybe they're certainly
not a Cup contender, but are they a playoff team
a wild card team? Yeah, maybe they are.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Just real late because it just popped into my mind.
You think they'll keep you, mama up. I think they
ought to. You know what I've often said, Josh, it
doesn't matter who who the last two wingers are on
game night, as long as they can kind of provide something.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And he does.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
And I always say that Crosby and Malkolan will very
adamantly tell you that they're more comfortable when a guy
like that is in the lineup, and that's worth something.
And by the way, he did more in that game
just from a hockey standpoint than coping and did a
ten games in all seriousness, He's not terrible. This isn't
Eric Goddard or something. You know, He's not a goon
(31:49):
like he can actually play a little bit. I think
he should stay. I think he will for.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The time being.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
We could see him up and down throughout the season,
but I bet he plays twenty twenty five games for
the Penguins this season. I think they're starting to sell
themselves on him and the big guys like having them around.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
How about lazat just drilling the guy in the nuts
and Clifton no selling Zegrets.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It was just like they're soft.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
The Penguins not only beat the Flyers, beat them bad,
but showed their.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Soft I don't know if you in my article this morning.
I spoke with Clifton yesterday. I said, hey, what did
you say to Zegres when he did the fake head bump?
And he said, well, I looked at him and I said,
as if I'm afraid of you, And he said, they
have some guys that might be able to get me
in that lineup, and he's sure as hell isn't one
of them. And yeah, I mean that was it. And
you saw what Lazatte did to Hathaway in the first period.
(32:40):
He sticks them right in the nuts and nobody goes
after him the rest of the game. That's that's not
the flyers we're told about that they did look soft
after that incident, and that's not something I was expecting.
So that's why I said that was a very satisfying
victory for the Penguins on many levels.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Josh.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
When you asked Clifton, what did you say to him?
Were you expecting maybe a different answer?
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Kind of I was expecting and he wouldn't want to
answer the question, but he was actually very eager to
answer the question. And I got to this, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You're whipping on the obvious answer.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Oh no, it was their slapshot reference that I missed.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I told him his wife.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Oh well, I can't really say that on the air,
I don't think, but I think we were all thinking
of pan or hand in that moment.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Hey, hanra Han, that's Josh Helley.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'm Mark Madden. One O five to nine. Tonight's the
Pens Face the Lightning.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Game time is seven, Our coverage starts at six here
every game and the best coverage right here on your
Home of the Pens one O five.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
Nine the X.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
This hour the Mark Madden Shows, brought to you by
Bud Light. Probably served to Fontine
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