4/23/24 - The Mo Egger Show

The Perfect Show!

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
What's up. Good afternoon, Moleger. This is esp In fifteen thirty.
Thank you for listening. Hopefully you'rehaving a terrific Tuesday afternoon. We're loaded
today, Red's good shut out.Last night, Hunter Green pitched. Okay,
okay, the Reds have a startingline up to town tonight. I

(00:25):
don't know that most of us wouldcharacterize it as okay. We'll get to
that in a bit, but first, our friend Paul Dayner Junior is here.
He is very busy. The Bengalsare on the clock on Thursday night,
round one of the draft, andPaul is covering it for the Athletic.
He's got the Growl of podcast.The big mega mock draft was done

(00:48):
yesterday. They've got a live podcastcoming up a week from tonight, which
we're going to talk about. He'sgot his full seven round mock draft.
We have a lot to discuss.Yeah, well, because we finally made
it. It's like I envy thefans who get to just not really pay
attention and then show up draft.We can be like, so, what's
going on? So we're sort ofsaying the same things but louder, and

(01:10):
you also reach the point where likeeverything comes first full circle where when we
first started talking about the draft whenthe Bengals season ended, and it was
like, well, you gotta lookat these tackles. That Latham guy seems
like he would fit or or youknow, I guess maybe it's gonna be
Mimes or whoever you're talking about.And we talked ourselves in eighteen different directions
since then, and now we're backand we're like, yeah, it's probably

(01:30):
one of those. So it's howthe process works. Yeah, you gotta,
but you gotta, you know,you gotta turn over every rock and
make sure we're talking about every possibletopic, and lord knows we did that.
But I am this is the excitingpart. Right. The last couple
of weeks are hard because you're justnot quite there. But now that it's
right here and we're deep in itevery you know, you're you can really

(01:52):
start to enjoy it and embrace it. Well, you know, I think
back to four years ago the JoeBurrow Draft, which you know, the
second part of the process, playit out against the pandemic. But we
joked on this show like we havesome we have certain boxes we have to
check. Okay, so one ofthe boxes is, well, should they
trade the pick? Right, weknow they're not gonna and we want them

(02:14):
to take Joe Burrow, but wewe have to we have to check that
box. And then the other boxwould be like, are we sure it's
not Tua, Are we sure it'snot justin Herbert? Are we sure it's
not Chase young And we spent especiallyonce the pandemic got here, and we
just had like large swaths of timeand nothing else really going on, so
we had to do the obligatory likehours of well, you know, maybe

(02:35):
maybe it makes sense to draft ChaseYounger. Wow. I still to this
day can't believe that it was apart of the program. I remember it
had to be yes, So Iget it. There are certain boxes that
you just have to check. Andthen at the end of it all,
we just kind of circled back toOkay, they're taking Burrow and it's gonna
be awesome. I was listening toDan Patrick the other day and Mike Florio

(02:59):
was on the are still suggesting thatthe Bengals should have traded out of number
one to the Dolphins? Say,yeah, they just got lucky that that
Burrow thing worked out. You canstill argue should have probably traded with Miami.
He's like, May, we're stillnot letting that go unbelievable. Still
there still still out there. Allright, before we get into some draft

(03:21):
nuts and bolts, let's talk abouttoday's news. Yes, singles, do
Jake Browning a solid? Yeah?I mean you earned it right, Yes,
he was kind of We talked abouthow he was just stuck. Yeah,
because he's the exclusive rights free agent. He has exclusive rights, should
be called no rights free agent.You're just this is the if they want
to pay you, this is whatyou're gonna make. And he earned more
than that. And so yeah,they do a ma solid and they give

(03:45):
themselves security there two years mat that'swhere it was gonna end up anyway with
him, And so I mean,how do you not love their quarterback room?
Right now? On top of youhave Burrow, So you know you
have an elite guy at number one, but you have somebody behind him that
fits well, that has proven himself. So something happens, maybe it won't
be like last year, and you'rescared to death to send him out there

(04:06):
to play against the Rams and said, send a hobble Joe Burrow out there
in week three because you're worried thatthis his backup can't win you a game.
Now, you know, everybody believesand we talked about this with Brandon
Allen in the beginning was when hehad a couple of really good games.
As long as the people around himon offense believe that he can go win

(04:27):
you a game. And it's nota feeling of dread when you take the
field. You need that that isimportant. That's the feeling you want.
You're not necessarily you want. Youwant whatever whoever your backup quarterback comes from,
he comes from. You just wantthe feeling and the rest of the
players when they go out there.Even though we have our starter today,
we got a chance. Jake Browninggave you that. He's every everybody loves

(04:48):
him. This was that was kindof a good, any uneasy, no
brainer and easy thing to do.You can function and do even more than
just function with Jake Browning. It'sit's it's the greatest insurance. Paul.
Ever, here's a guy that hashad some success in our system, feels
like he's going to be prepared.Do I want him to play six seven,
eight games? No? But Ialways look at the backup quarterback to

(05:09):
the simple lens of Joe, go'sin a concussion protocol and the other guy's
got to play a half and it'sseventeen all and you got to figure out
a way to win the game.Can he do that for you? The
answer is yes. Yeah, it'sa great feeling to have Joe likes him.
He has proven he will be readyand be a gamer at all times.
I mean that's kind of just hismentality that we learned about last year.

(05:30):
So yeah, I think everything everythingthat you let that you look for
in a backup quarterback, Jake Browninghas and they do him a little bit
a solid by giv him a littleextra money and security and he earned that.
Uh. They also bring back Loganwoods Yeah, let's go. So
if you would have said to meon the Saturday night of the twenty eighteen
draft, the last draft of theMarvin Lewis regime, that there would be

(05:56):
uh free active players in the NFLfrom that draft, I would have thought,
Okay, well, Billy Price isa chance to you know, stick
right, and Jesse Bates and thenSam Hubbard okay, and then who else
Logan wood Side. Yes, ifyou would have told me that when it
was during it was either OTAs orcamp he got popped. No, it

(06:19):
was around that time when they justhad him out there as like scout team
safety and he had chains around hisneck. I was like, well,
that doesn't bode well for his NFLfuture, But yet he matured here and
here he is. He's he's beencollecting checks in the NFL. Good for
Logan wood Side. Anybody should hopeto have his NFL career at this point.

(06:40):
Amazing. Yeah, he's still playingin the NFL in twenty twenty four,
outlasted Billy Price. He played ina game last year for the Atlanta
Falcons. Good for him, man, good for Logan Woodside. That's that's
one of the See that's the partof the draft that I like. I
like it when yeah, sort ofbig Day three guy, well not really
a big Day three guy, butI like when Logan Woodside gott in a

(07:00):
game for the Falcons last year.I don't know how I found that out,
but I said, is that thesame guy from Toledo the Bengals drafted?
And then it was like, yes, wait a minute, he's still
playing football in the NFL. Amazingand getting checks and gotten a game.
Yes, he's back it's great.It's great. What a wonderful world.

(07:23):
Of the many things that you takepart in. I enjoy the AFC North
whip around, you do? Ido? I like the whip around because
it's a chance to kind of checkin with what's happening with the other teams
in the AFC North for those whodon't know, and you should because you
should be subscribing to a Paul's workingin the Athletic. But Paul and the
other three beat writers who cover AFCNorth teams will tackle, you know,

(07:45):
various topics throughout the course of theweek. There's one of them I wanted
to talk about with you, allright, what's that? So you were
asked to outline. You and theother three guys were as to outline best
and worst case scenarios. Best andworst case scenarios for the BENGALSS case for
the Bengals, as you documented,was best case would be at least four

(08:05):
quarterbacks, multiple corners, a surprisereceiver, and a couple of edge rushers
come off in front of them,leaving at least one of Latham JC Latham
tell Esfuaga Fuatano or Byron Murphy thesecond to pick that's best case. Yeah,
I think so that's best case.Yeah, guys at the positions that
they want most, that fit them. Yeah, if best case ends up

(08:26):
being reality, who among those fourguys would they pick. I have planted
my flag on Byron Murphy for along time now. H I wrote a
whole story how he's basically my guy. Like, I don't claim that.
I just think he can have themost effect on this team winning of anybody,

(08:48):
just because that position is so rare, the value is so high.
It's such a scarcity there that tome, that would be the direction that
I would go. And I wouldstart trying to figure out tackle because you
do have Trent Brown and is hegonna play a full season? I mean,
you certainly aren't counting on that.But like I, they have found

(09:09):
answers at tackle, and you canspend a second or third round pick and
say, hey, by week whatever, if an injury occurs, this guy
could be ready. You know,a second round pick could be ready to
come in and play. That's justthat. If you're talking about the trade
off on that, what you're givingup is you could have an elite three

(09:30):
technique, which is something the entireleague is dying to find So that to
me would be my answer on that, what will they do? They know
what they would do. I mean, I've heard, we've heard a lot
of talk about how they are inthese meetings now and they're ongoing. And
if you don't believe that stacking theboard across positions with things like the question
you just asked, are what they'vebeen sitting around over the last week,

(09:52):
making sure that everyone's comfortable with andyour creat That's what's happening. So what
will they do? We'll find outif that happens. I I just think
I think what they have needed andwanted is there in Murphy potentially if he
was there. I don't think hewill be there. But I think one
of the tackles, you know,you're you're happy with all your with all
of them, all right. Iwant to stay on the position that Byron

(10:15):
Murphy, the place Byron Murphy playsByron Murphy, the plays what Byron Murphy?
The second place we'll do that thisis live radio. Yeah, so
when I make mistakes there it isyou just do it? Makes you human?
Sure? That's it? Yes?Makes me human? Yes? Accessible?
Accessible? Yes? Sure. PaulDanner Juniors here the Athletic dot Com,
The Growler Podcast, and I wantto talk about your live podcast one

(10:37):
week from tonight. We'll get tothat when we come back. He is
here until four o'clock. We arehere till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. It's three twenty.This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger,
Paul Danner Juniors, here at theAthletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast,
the Mega Mock Draft Special which PaulJmore, Butch Hobson, James Rapine Mock

(11:01):
Draft. Yeah, I will admitto you that I am midway through.
That's good. I mean, youknow it gets only gets better. Yeah,
you go, It's it's fun.Speaking of the podcast, love that
exercise. Yeah, speaking of thepodcast, you have a live post draft
podcast, yeah, from tonight.I am so excited about this. So
we've partnered with uh at MGM Sportsbookand Nation Kitchen at the Banks down there,

(11:28):
which if you have you've if you'vebeen to a Reds game, you've
seen it's right down right down thereacross from JVP. The space is awesome,
it's perfect for what we wanted todo, and and they've just been
a great partner to be in withhere and so we're gonna be down there
seven o'clock Tuesday, April thirtieth.It's Bengals College Scouting director Mike Potts,
who spoke today the Press convers isgonna be there to when we'll break down

(11:50):
all the picks we've done. I'vedone this every year. It's one of
my favorite things that we are ableto do because these guys have a year's
worth of insight and stories and pathto every pick. There's so much nuance
to everything to really unpack, andMike is the perfect person to do.
And we'll invite a bunch of otherscouts who have hopped on with us in
the past and go down there.We'll talk through that well food and drinks.

(12:13):
Of course, Nation just crushes ifthey have so much good food and
you come down listen, dude,we'll do draft talk and then of course
we'll myself and Jay and March willbe down there. We'll be hanging out
having drinks afterwards talking If you guyswant to catch anybody want to catch up,
then So seven o'clock next Tuesday,Mike Potts will be our guest,

(12:33):
but we'll do a full live growlerdown there. This will be fun because
Tuesday, right seven o'clock your podcast, Mark will be there. Yeah,
I'm gonna come down. It's alsogame five if necessary, Nick Sixers.
Yeah. Mark's a big Knicks fan. Yeah, I'm a big Knicks.
We'll get you guys a screen Ithink we can get you guys a screen
over. So yeah, I mean, it could be fun. It could

(12:56):
be very fun. I'm just sayingit could be big. Put them away
if necessary, if necessary necessary,probably won't, probably won't be. If
necessary, it'll be over. Butno, it's gonna be great. So
Eric, come on down seven o'clocka week from tonight. I listened to
Zach Taylor yesterday and I listened toMike Potts. Mike Potts understandably was not

(13:16):
nearly as revealing as he will bewhen he joins you. But I did
enjoy listening to Zach a little bityesterday, just talking about the process because
me as I'm into the draft andI'm into who they take, but I'm
really I think it'd just be socool to really be pulled back into the
room to just watch how Draft Nightitself plays out. And I thought,

(13:37):
Zach, maybe a little bit moreso than he has been since he arrived.
Was kind of interesting just talking abouthow the sausage is made during the
draft. Yeah, I mean,I think it's fascinating because I mean,
teams do do things differently, andthe Bengals are built a little bit differently,
but you know they when you whenyou get into that room, it's

(14:00):
mostly done. There's especially on Thursdaynight, there's really I think there's this
idea that there's action. It's incrediblyThursday Night's incredibly boring in there because if
there's anything that they have done andput to bed, it's the order of
what's going to happen in round one, like one through eighteen, and really
the same for up to forty.You get way more action on day two

(14:20):
because you get a lot more tradesare involved a whole day. Teams have
recalibrated their boards and things have changed, but Day one has been so structured.
You know where you would trade to, you know who you would talk
to. You probably have things setin place. If you're gonna move,
you know who you're gonna take,and what that order is. If it
gets to that, so it becomesalmost like, Okay, get this out
of the way I would want tobe in there on Day two. That

(14:43):
is the most action pack day.Everybody has needs that they're trying to fill,
things that they're reacting to. Everybody'strying to move. That to me
is the day that is the ultimatewhere you know, that's where you win
and loose in this league is accomplishingyour goals with those Friday picks. And
I think that will be how thisdraft will absolutely be judged for the Bengals

(15:07):
this year, just because of theway they're set up, the extra pick,
their ability to move up and downif they want to, and their
needs that they have at very importantpositions. I think that is the most
fascinating day and we'll see how theyhandle it. We talked about Byron Murphy
and what they would do if he'sthere at eighteen and sign me up for
taking him fills an obvious need.Why don't I feel very good about what

(15:33):
they could do a defensive tackle laterin the draft if he's not there,
Well, because there isn't any Imean there's not. There's not a ton
of players that no one's really gonnabring you that that's why those guys go
there. Yeah, have we talkedso much about Byron Murphy that we make
the other guys seem like they justtotally suck. No, I don't think

(15:54):
they any I don't think it doso, I think it's close. I
don't know that he is at thetop of their board. I mean,
I'm just a lot of people likeNewton More. Yeah, some people like
and that's fine. I just youknow, that's great. I mean you
can get He's he will bring youall the pass rush you want to.
I mean, that's that's what you'relooking for. There's not as much of
the other stuff there as Murphy givesyou a little more versatility, a little

(16:15):
more against the run, but youknow, pass rushing from inside is as
valuable as it gets. So II think you can accomplish. They have
put themselves into a position a littlebit where yeah, you're not you're not
gonna get what you want after that, there's because there's that's where those guys
go. I think they can pieceit together after that. I think there's

(16:38):
plenty of guys that that could comein here, but there's just not a
lot of history in this league ofplayers coming from. Where the Bengals will
pick in round two around three andcoming in and having big time impact,
and they kind of need some impactsthey put They put themselves in this spot,
and that's why that feeling exist.My question was not so much about

(17:02):
the lack of talent, for lackof a better way of putting it.
After Byron Murphy, it's the positionthe Bengals are in and what they've done
to themselves specifically at that spot.Yeah, I think they would. You
don't ever want to feel like youhave an obvious need, and I think
that they've done some certainly too.It doesn't feel that way. I mean

(17:22):
with Rankins and Hilly, they needbodies, but it doesn't feel like they
are just a disaster there. Butthey need pieces. I mean, they
need more in there, and theyneed it for this year and they need
it for the future. You don'tever want to have even that feeling.
But that doesn't mean, you know, there's plenty of players that they could

(17:44):
sit here and grab Chris Jenkins atforty nine and everyone will by the time
they pick and the fourth round,everyone will already be sold that he's the
answer and that was the best thingthat could have happened. Yeah, or
any number of these guys that dohave potential that you would take in the
second round, and they're part ofa rotation and you can find a way
to make it work, and thenthey'll take another one on day three that
can come in and be the newJosh Tupo and you can see how it

(18:07):
all fits together. Is that gonnabe enough to slow down Travis Henry or
I'm sorry, Derek Henry. DerekTravis Henry school reference like that, Dereck
Henry, Sure job. I thinkI mean, I don't think you have
Baltimore this overall running game. Yeah, okay, I mean I maybe I
think you don't have You don't haveto have DJ reader to stop the run.

(18:30):
You know, you can find otherways to do it. Lou Anumo
will be in charge of scheming thatup. They had DJ reader last year
and they didn't stop the run verywell. I don't disagree with that.
I think that's partially on lou AnaRumo's lap. Is you got to figure
out how to do this? Isthere a new way that you've got to

(18:51):
construct it? What is that runfits always comes back to run fits?
Isn't it run fit practice? Canwe put you You've often talked about jobs
that you would like to hold atthe Bengals. Could we make you like
director of run fits and just haveyou run drills helping everyone with their run
fits? Like is that? CanI make this? Can we find a

(19:12):
way to produce this? Maybe?But I just I have you know,
we were talking about like nightmare scenarios. Mine is we get to like five
or six weeks in and they're gettingbeaten up upfront and teams are running up
and down against them, and Igotta listen to analysts talk about run fits.
Yeah, it's coming. Whenever I'mhearing somebody talk about run fits,

(19:33):
First of all, I get reallybored very quickly. Second, nobody ever
talks about run fits when they're stoppingthe run, right, not a lot
of runfit columns being written when they'restopping the run. Yeah. I haven't
gotten a whole lot of clicks onmy gap discipline story, you know.
So I if we get to Octoberand you and I are talking about run
fits, I'm gonna go back tothe draft in the entire offseason and Goo

(19:56):
could have fixed it. To havefixed it, no, I I've said
it a bunch of time. Ithink it's the one criticism of how free
agency unfolded with them is that theydidn't have one more guy in there that
feels solid, disserviceable right to kindof be in that mix. And and
we'll see if they can find away to get this in this draft.
But I mean, that's what's infront of them. That's why it's important.
That's why day two is important.If they don't get that on day

(20:18):
one, is they got a pinpointthat and find it all right, I
want to explore a long shot possibilityand your individual nightmare scenario. Okay,
Plus i'd like your thoughts on BillTobin. Yeah, we'll do three thirty
Paul Danner Junior. By the way, Taren, we're trying to have the
perfect show today, two for two, hitting the brake on time. Um
the way, he's Paul Danner Junior. We're aiming for a perfect show today.

(20:42):
It can happen, No, itcan't. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station Sincy three sixty withTony Pike. If we want to move
on dot to keep going and BostonElmore, I think you should continue.
Let me keep going there Sincy threesixty Tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteen
thirty. Cincinnati's espnes are a serviceof Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrain

(21:07):
protection and guaranteed credit approval from theirfamily to yours for life, kelseychev dot
Com. Game two of four withthe Phillies tonight at GAVP. Red's trying
to bounce back after getting shut outin two hit last night. Andrew Abbott,
Well, I'll get the ball forCincinnati, Paul in the quick Hits
segment that I do with Tony andAustin, I was asked if I would
get your thoughts on tonight's Red startinglineup. All right, let's go.

(21:32):
Stu Fairchild leading off. Well,that's not a great start. Spencer Steers
and left. Stevenson is catching Candelario'splaying third, batting fourth, ces at
first, Ellie is betting sixth againplaying short stop. Nick Martini providing protection
for Ellie in the seven hole.Santiago Espinal, who might be the worst
offensive player the Reds have ever had, Well, come on playing second base.

(21:57):
I mean, that's how bad heis playing. And he'll get four
hits tonight playing second base and bettingeighth. And then Will Benson in right
field, batting ninth you know,wasn't Stevenson just hitting ninth like a week
ago? Weren't we? I meanI feel like, yes, and now
we've moved to this he was youread him third there? Correct? Yes,

(22:21):
Yeah, we just it's fine.I don't mind Matt Messmith Ellie.
Here's the thing, like it's likeit's like, okay, don't touch anything.
It's working, okay, Like nobodynobody getting near him, don't look
at him, don't change the spotin the buying order like it's working.
Just let it keep going. SoI feel like that's I'm okay with that

(22:41):
with just leave him there. Youcould put somebody a little bit better behind
him. I get it, butI don't. I don't the rest of
it though. We're trying too hard, aren't we. Yes. I go
back to one of the one ofthe best and then eventually worse things about
Dusty Baker was he really believed inguys feeling comfortable every day coming in,

(23:03):
knowing exactly where that was going tobe and where they were gonna hit.
Yes, and gave people long runsof doing the exact same thing in the
exact same spot every single day off, sometimes to his detriment. Later in
the season, but players really appreciatedthat. Players really like they feel comfortable
coming to the ballpark every day.It means something. I think today's player

(23:26):
is very much used to moving allaround more so, much more so.
Yeah, and so that's not asbig a deal as maybe it was in
the time that we're talking about.But I don't think it's under I still
think it's a deal. I stillthink it's a thing where you do want
to be leaning into comfort more often. I'm not a manager, I'm not
here too. I think eventually youeither got players that can hitter you don't.

(23:48):
It doesn't really make that big ofa difference. But I do like
comfort when possible, and there isalways so much movement. The one thing
I remember most about Dusty Baker's lineups, it didn't matter who it was.
The center fielder was batting lead off. Drew Stubs, Drew Stubbs, Willie
Taveres, Corey Patterson shouldn't suit Choo. I mean, it just it did
not matter, didn't matter the centerJerry Harriston, the center fielder was hitting

(24:11):
lead off. Yeah, you thinkhe's always just had the position written down
and it just didn't really matter.Yeah, that's great. I love that
idea. Yeah, I could godown Old Red's lineup wormholes with you.
But the drafts in two days.Is there any scenario where the Bengals draft
a wide receiver in round one?Yeah, a trade back? I think

(24:40):
if you traded back, if they, if they, if you know,
something happens and the guys they like, and you're sitting there looking at the
corners. I was talking with thissomebody today. You know, the Eagles
are known for moving up in roundone, and Howie Roseman that's just kind
of hit his thing, right,they need corners. If one of those
corners is sitting there because the roundtackles happened, I could I could see

(25:00):
him calling the Bengals about moving Youmove back to twenty two. Okay,
now you're thinking a different You probablyare hoping to get somebody, but maybe
that person doesn't get to you.Move back one more time. Now the
receivers are in play. Now you'retalking about a lot of guys, whether
you're talking about Lad McConkie or AdyMitchell or whoever you like. I think
McConkie would be a dream fit forthem. That conversation only happens then I

(25:25):
don't see any of the other receiversbeing even tempting for them at eighteen.
I just don't see. I don'tbelieve that to be the case. But
I think if you move back andyou gained a bunch of picks as part
of the payoff there, you couldmake a real argument for a receiver at
that point. But I think that'sthe only scenario, and that's obviously slim.

(25:47):
Is your personal nightmare scenario on Thursdaynight, brock Bauers being there at
eighteen. No, No, Idon't. I don't care. I'm not.
I don't know why I'm painted asthis, Like Hugh Anti, he

(26:07):
may be fine. I just don'tbelieve that that's the direction that you should
go with a first round pick.No matter, just seen enough of this.
You're just trying to set me upto do another Bowers rant. I
am because do we need? Can'tyou just play the last ones? Because
it's not to me. It's it'snot about Bowers. It's about not It's
about what you're going to have toput up with if Bowers is there and

(26:32):
they don't take him, and thenhe goes to Pittsburgh, yes or wherever?
Correct, Pittsburgh obviously nine catches againstthe bank, he's he's Sam Laporta,
and we end up doing this wholething again. I get it.
Yeah, that's fine. I don't. I don't. I'm I'm willing to
eat that because there's also a chancehe'll be any of the other tight ends

(26:52):
that have been drafted in the firstround over the last decade that have not
been anywhere close to or definitely haven'tbeen the best tight end in their class.
That's that's all. Do you haveif that's not your own personal nightmare
scenario? Do you have one?They trade back and add ten seventh round

(27:14):
picks to keep me there as lateas possible in the Saturday night and steal
the best drink of the year fromme, which is Saturday night after the
draft, file the last story andpodcast and sit down and top shelf bourbon.
That's your favorite one? I thoughtthe entire year, I work in

(27:36):
a normal just strictly talking like thatcircumstance. I mean, I've heard you
and Jay talk about this. Ialways thought it was after the last preseason
game, but it's it's absolutely okay. So much work in front of us
at that point. This is likethe end of our this is schools out
for summer. I mean, thisis the end of a hard run,
okay, and that it tastes nothingtastes quite as good as a Saturday night

(27:56):
drink. Nothing very good. Imean, we could do a beer debate
like vacation beers and long beers,and from my point of view, it's
hard to topple, hard to topplethat one. I gotta think what mine
would be? What would yours be? Um, well, after the Knicks

(28:17):
win the next champion, that's apersonal thing. I'm like in a professional
setting. H Well, let methink about that. Think about it,
okay, and we can come backto it. We will. It is,
uh, sixteen minutes away from fouro'clock so far, I don't want
to jinx it. This is likecelebrating a no hitter in the third inning,
but three for three en route tohopefully a perfect show. Yeah,

(28:41):
you know what. Perfect show isnot about performance. It's not about having
opinions that are proven to be trueor not stumbling over yourself. Perfect show
is hitting all the breaks on time. Everybody has to show up, yep,
And you got to hit all thebreaks on times, right, So
I showed up Terrence here, you'rehere, You've hit all the breaks on
time. There you go. That'sa good start. We decided yesterday that

(29:02):
we're gonna take a stab at executinga perfect show. Do we have to
like break into other programming on otherstations to be like alert? Moeger is
two thirds of the way perfect showprogress per show in progress. Don't go
in there and talk to him orlook at him. Perfect show alert?
Yeah, you need that. Itis quarter to four. He's Paul Danner

(29:22):
Junior Live podcast. The Growler Podcasta week from tonight at Nation and bet
MGM at the Banks starts at seveno'clock. Go see, Paul. I'm
gonna come by. We need youthere, need me there by any stretch
of the imagination there sure, justfor comic relief. To want my draft
grades? Is that what you're gonnawant? I want you to show up

(29:45):
and criticize Mike Potts on their picks. I will be like, I cannot
believe, yes, but you knowhow bad they are at run fits.
Where do you get off taking thisguy? It's a quarter to four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sportsstation and away from four o'clock. Paul
Dayner Junior, Theathletic dot Com andthe host of the Growler podcast What Shall

(30:07):
Be Done Live at BEDMGM and Nationa week from tonight. Mike Potts will
be there. Yes, director ofCollege can Yeah, it's gonna be awesome,
he said today. Specifically, youknow, I'm close to the vest.
I'm not gonna say anything. Ican have much more detailed conversations about
all this after the draft, andI thought, oh, well that's convenient.
Then I'm glad we're gonna have youthere. It's gonna be the perfect

(30:30):
opportunity to do it, so we'llopen up the box on it. Uh.
Detroit is hosting the NFL Draft thisyear. Yeah, I don't know
when. Okay, I know where. You know where I'm going. I
mean, I have to have youcan go down to. They want to
host it. Uh, Yes,they've been trying to for a long time.

(30:51):
The lack of facilities in the cityhave gotten in the way. Okay,
hotel rooms, all that stuff.We're trying. Yeah. I think
once the All Star Game went sowell, I thought that it was gonna
be and then the NFL Draft startedmoving. But I just I think that
there are there's a lot going onthere, you know, I just feel
like them. I feel like theBengals don't get as much attention and love

(31:14):
and respect from the NFL offices often, no doubt, and Cincinnati isn't like
of course Detroit isn't. But Ijust I think there's something in the way
there, because how are they noteven in the conversation on some of this
stuff? I mean, what arewe doing here? We're gonna go to
Green Bay, You're gonna go toI mean, so it should be happening.

(31:34):
But I do think that the cityneeds to have be more prepared for
a big event like that than theycurrently are in the eyes of the NFL.
Gotcha, Yeah, Duke Tobin's fatherpassed away. Yeah, Bill Tobin.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who know the name but really
didn't know that for much of thelast twenty years, a figure with his

(31:56):
NFL life, with his football life, was working for the Bengals on a
I thought it was cool that Zachyesterday talked about his his small role but
still his role in sort of signingoff on Evan McPherson in the What a
great story because Kevin Butler was therookie kicker, I mean people free.
He basically built the eighty five Bears. I mean, like yes, you
know, and it talked about takingKevin Butler and that being a big part

(32:19):
of going to the Super Bowl.He was, of course there for a
rejuvenation of Indianapolis in the nineties andhas been more behind the scenes here with
with Duke and Cincinnati. But Imean just the amount of institutional knowledge and
instinct that that they had to beable to tap into here over the last
couple of decades, just in Cincinnati, not even you know, is that's

(32:42):
so valuable When you get to thosespots, right you're like, should we
And it's like, well, letme tell you how this worked out,
and you know where you've just seenit and you've been through all of that
stuff. And I remember, youknow, last year right at this time,
actually I wrote a big feature onDuke sort of like kind of he's
such an anonymous exec and and andwas, you know, maybe the best

(33:06):
executive that nobody knew. And hetold me in that piece he said,
you know, I my I thinkmy father, I'm you know, I'm
biased. I think my father isthe best scout this league has ever seen.
In my opinion, and I thinkhe is viewed through that lens like
he just had an unbelievable skill forthat. And I think his the genuineness

(33:30):
that he had is what helped himestablish that. And you see that in
Duke Tobin if you're familiar with Imean, just the down, down to
earth, genuine nature of that family. And you know, I had few
interactions with Bill, but you knowit's it's notable, and you hear that
from everyone, and so it's tough. Man Like, I can't imagine this

(33:52):
right now, going going through this, you know this has been going on,
so going through this, during thiswhole process, and now, I
meannybody that's ever lost somebody, aparent knows exactly how hard that entire process
is and how much it weighs youdown. So I can only imagine how
you know, hard this season,this draft season has been for Duke.

(34:15):
I'll see you next Tuesday here andthen and then we can go. You
can even carpool with me if youwant. We could go down together.
Oh, you have to finish theshow. You want to stay here at
all? Six, I don't here, welcome to I really don't want to.
Sure, I know I've got stuffto I gotta make sure we get
down there and set everything up.All right, you're ready to go.
It's the perfect shows up for grabshere. Oh, see you next week.

(34:35):
Goodbye, five away from for ESPNfifteen thirty. This report is sponsored
that He's ESPN fifteen thirty. What'sup? Good ad for No Moleger.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thankyou for joining us today. By the
way, you could send us tweedstore in the show. Thanks to our
friends at Emery Federal Credit Union,your credit union with hard since nineteen thirty

(34:59):
nine, they sponsor our show.Preview video. Twitter feeded self a service,
So Delta Dental. Delta Dental isbuilding healthy, smart, vibrant communities
for all. Good to Delta Dental, Oh dot com. Brendiman and Jones
on baseball a little bit later onin the hour. A few other draft
thoughts that we'll get to in abit. We uh we did the first
hour and Paul was awesome as always. We didn't really have that much of

(35:21):
a chance to talk about what happenedlast night at GABP, and what happened
last night at GABP was was basicallyall about Ranger Suarez, who stuck it
to the Reds for seven terrific inningslast night. This is an offensive team
that has major, major issues againstleft handed pitching. Hunter Green did pitch
last night, and he pitched Okay, okay, ish, he was font.

(35:49):
We'll get to Hunter Green's role inwhat happened last night here in in
just a bit. The reality,though, is is this, this right
now is not a very good offensive. The way they just destroyed the Chicago
White Sox seems like it happened abouta month and a half ago, and
they did score seven runs on Saturdayand seven on Friday. But by and

(36:13):
large, man you look at overthe last week or so, starting with
that series in Seattle, they're they'rejust there isn't really anybody who's who's hitting
great right now. Ellie Dela Cruzhas been fine and jam Or Candelario has
been fine, and both players probablya little bit better than fine. But
beyond those two, nobody is reallyhitting right now. And we can we

(36:34):
can talk a lot about lineup construction, which is a thing that I'll get
involved in it too, But peoplelove to obsess over and there's certainly some
very valid criticisms of some of thethings the Reds have decided to do in
regards to their batting order. Butthe reality is they just don't have enough
guys right now who are hitting andwhen when that's a problem, I'm not
really sure it matters that much whohits where. I would like to see

(36:58):
Ellie Dela Cruz batting early in thelineup. I'd rather see him hitting closer
to second or third right now thansixth. Let's be honest, man,
their offensive issues last night, we'reabout the entire lineup and their offensive issues
going back to the beginning of thatSeattle series, pretty much about everybody.
And the thing about that is it'svery easy to say, well, look,

(37:20):
uh, this is how this isreality. This is life without Matt
McClain, without Noel A. Marte, and without TJ. Friedel, and
then with all the guys who havespent you know, some time on the
shelf because they've been sick. Thisis life when you're shorthanded. Now,
the good news is they've gotten backsome guys who are sick. Some guy's
still dealing with whatever it is that'sgoing through the Reds clubhouse. But Matt

(37:44):
McClain is not coming back. Anytimesoon. So you know, we can,
we can throw our hands up inthe air and shrug our shoulders and
lament the fact that Matt McLain's notaround. Well, that's not going to
be the case until August, ifit happens at all. They got to
figure out a way to overcome.Same Forlve Marte. The aint getting him
back for a while. They've playedwhat twenty twenty two games? Twenty two

(38:06):
games, so he's got fifty eightleft, pretty large chunk of the season
still without Noelve Marte. TJ.Friedel is closer to coming back, but
he's not coming back within the nextcouple of days. So this collection of
players the Reds have, regardless ofwhere you want to put him in the
batting order and how much you wantto complain about, like Stuart Fairchild batting

(38:28):
first or Elie Dela Cruz hitting lowin the order, reality is, man,
they just don't have enough really goodoffensive options right now. They don't
have enough guys who are carrying theirweight. They don't have enough guys who
are putting up good numbers on theseason. Can that change, of course,
will it change? My guess isfor most of these guys the answer
is yes. But you know,we talked all the time about margin for

(38:49):
error, and we talk all thetime about, you know, portions of
the schedule. The Reds last nightstarted a portion of the schedule that throws
at them almost non stop really goodteams. When you are facing an onslaught
of really good teams, that isa really bad time to be going through
a collective batting slump. And theReds are going through a collective batting slump.

(39:13):
The good news is this, intheir last seven games, their offensive
output has been putrid. They didn'tlose all seven games. They beat the
Angels three times, but the PhiladelphiaPhillies and the teams they have coming up
over the next couple of weeks,the Texas Rangers, all the West Coast
teams much much better than the inferioropponents the Reds beat when the Angels came

(39:36):
to town this past weekend, orwhen they went to Chicago to play the
White Sox two weeks ago. It'squite simple. As much as we can
go after David Bell for his lineupcard, the reality is they just they
need some guys who can start tostart hitting. They need individual players to
carry more weight we'll see if thatcan begin to happen starting tonight. Reds

(39:59):
are averaging a shade over three runsper game over their last seven. Last
night, Hunter Green pitched. Itfeels to me, and yes, social
media is a big part of this, but it feels to me that every
Hunter Green start has almost become areferendum. And so yesterday we had some

(40:23):
fun with this. I said,I'm gonna make sports talk radio history,
and I think I did on thisshow yesterday sports Talk Radio history. Or
I have an opinion. I havea take, if you will that everybody
within the sound of my voice willagree with. And that take was,
it would be awesome if Hunter Greencan pitch at least six innings a game.

(40:50):
Last night he pitched seven. That'snot insignificant by any stretch of the
imagination, right, That's not insignificant. The Reds went into last night with
a severely taxed bullpen. Frankie montassthey're gonna have to change his spot in
the rotation and have Nick Martinez Philett, which disrupts things in the bullpen.

(41:12):
They had eight and the third inningscovered by relief pitching. On Sunday,
this bullpen was used a lot thisweekend. It rose to the occasion.
It pitched very well against the Angels. But all right, when you have
to go to your bullpen on Sundayin the first inning the starting pitcher on
Monday, you got to get somelength out of him. Hunter Green gave

(41:34):
him some length Hunter Green in thefirst couple of innings. The first inning
last night. What was interesting washe threw nothing but fastballs. Now he
looked as dominant throwing the heater inthe first inning yesterday or last night,
as I've seen, but he threwnothing but fastballs. It's interesting. Last
night he relied on the heater alot, and man it got up there

(41:57):
over one hundred and four on thegun at one point. But for a
guy whose secondary pitches haven't been discusseda lot, it felt like he was
a little bit more reliant on thefastball last night. You know, he
was sort of victimized when Philly scoredtheir first run the Castiano bloop right behind
first. That wasn't a very wellhit ball. They kind of nickel and

(42:19):
dimed them with sacrifice flies. Butthe second time through the batting order the
Phillies did some damage. Hunter minimizedthe damage. I would stop short of
saying quality start. Four runs overseven innings is less than ideal. You
do that over the course of anentire season. My simple math would say

(42:39):
that that puts your ERA over five. Now there are other metrics that we
can use to determine how effective ofa pitcher you are, but an ERA
over five by and large not good. So it's hard to say the final
scoring line was any good. Butas the Reds were just faltering their way
through the night offensively, Hunter kepthim at least in range ish ish ish,

(43:07):
he gave him length. Here's thething, man, because I watch
people on social media argue about HunterGreen. Hunter is doing a lot of
things better this year. I retweetedfrom Bryce Spaulding, who's a very good
Red Twitter follow some of the metricsthat would suggest that Hunter Green is improving

(43:29):
this year. And again, man, he's had some moments and he had
some last night where he looks likea guy that many believe is going to
be just a top of the rotationdude for all of his prime years.
Hopefully that happens. I think weare all if we're being reasonable, we're
willing to be patient with Hunter Green. We understand he is still in the

(43:50):
developmental stage of his big league career. I think most of us really want
to see what these next fifty startslook like, which is, you know,
the rest of this season and agood chunk of next year. But
what his next fifty starts, includinglast night, looked like, and compare
them to his first fifty starts.And we're looking for improvement, and we're
looking for a greater variety of pitches, and we're looking for a guy who

(44:10):
could adjust to how the league hasadjusted to him, which is, you
know where avoiding the lineup getting toyou that second time through comes in.
But at the same time, wewant the Reds to be good this year,
right like we want the Reds tolegitimately compete this season. I've said

(44:34):
often, we got to remember thatwhat the Reds are trying to do this
season is really hard. It's hardto win a division, it's hard to
get to the postseason while you're still, you know, kind of in that
stage where you have a lot ofguys who are developing, not just one
or two either, a lot ofguys still developing. Hutter Green is on
that list of players who are developing. Well if you want the Reds to

(45:00):
take what they did last season anddo better this year, then for a
lot of these guys, that learningprocess has to accelerate. Like we've talked
about Ellie Dela Cruz's ceiling. Ifthe Reds are gonna take a major step
forward in the win lost column,especially now without some of the guys they're

(45:22):
playing without Ellie Dela Cruze's development hasto be accelerated. And same for Graham
Ashcraft, and same for Nicolodolo,and same for Christian and Caronasio on Strand,
and same for Hunter Green. It'snot putting undue pressure. It's not
being impatient. It's not failing torecognize what his talent projects for him long

(45:47):
term. It's about we all wantthe Reds to win this year. We
think that's possible. But if youwant it to happen and think it can
happen, then the development does needto be accelerated. Five point three seven
four nine, fifteen thirty eight sixsix seven oh two three seven seven six.

(46:10):
We'll have a Paul question here momentarilyon Twitter, sixteen after four o'clock
on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati SportsStation twenty one after four This is ESPN
fifteen thirty on Oegar. Thank youfor joining us today. Brennan and Jones
on baseball is coming up in justabout thirty minutes. Don't forget uh the
Thursday. He's gonna say Tuesday.Today's Tuesday, Thursday. This Thursday.

(46:32):
Two days from now, Day oneof the NFL Draft. Night one of
the NFL Draft, we will bebroadcasting on ESPN fifteen thirty. I think
for like the fourth straight year.If I'm not mistaken from Long Necks and
Wilder, we'll be there from threeto six. We have some really cool
prizes thanks to our friends at Budweiser. Our buddy James or pen Is gonna

(46:54):
stop by and spend at least anhour and maybe I can coax even more
out of them. And a greatway to start one of the really fun
sports weekends of the entire year.It's one of those weekends. You know,
if you like me, you loveplayoffs. So the NBA, the
NHL Reds are playing this weekend,you got the NFL Draft three day event,

(47:14):
so much going on. Start theweekend on a Thursday with us at
Long Necks and Wilder. It's gonnabe an absolute plast excuse me from a
three to six on Thursday afternoon.We hope to see you there. Take
a phone call or two. Butby the way, it's it's we're not

(47:34):
halfway there, but so far Tarncorrect me if I'm I'm wrong. So
far perfect show is in play?Perfect show through in baseball terms, I
guess we could say about maybe fiveand a half innings. Uh yeah,
yeah, I would say maybe throughlike four and a half, maybe through
five. Perfect show. I'm Idon't believe in jinx is. But the

(48:00):
definition of a perfect show, whichwe have never accomplished, is to hit
every break on time. It hasnothing to do with the content, because
there's there's no way in hell Icould deliver a perfect show with content.
Mark is in Louisville, high Mark, how you doing? I have a

(48:22):
question. My question is did theRIDS front office pay fifteen millions for Candelaria
and fifteen millions for Frankie Montage?Is that right? Did I? Or
was it left? That did happen? Yes, yes, that did happen.
What are they thinking? Well?The Candelario thing I thought was was

(48:45):
weird because I thought there were betterplayers available. I also think though they
didn't envision him being an everyday positionplayer, right. I think in an
ideal world, they go, Okay, we'll have Candelare is sort of a
swing guy, but our main thirdbaseman is going to be Marte, Our
main first baseman is going to beCees. Candelario can play some third,

(49:08):
but he could also DH. Butyeah, relative to some of the other
guys that were out there, Ithought at the time that that signing was
kind of underwhelming, if I'm beinghonest. Now, they had the money
to spend. Nobody else really makinga huge doing this team. They had
the money to spend, but jamOr Candelario's production was not what I think

(49:30):
a lot of people thought it wasor hoped it was before he got here.
This team has a terrible, terriblehistory of free agent signings. I
mean, they never get their money'sworth. Go back last year that haltfielder
from San Diego that they cut twothirds into the season, Will Myers fib

(49:52):
what was his name, Will Myers? Will Myer terrible hit less than two
hundred and you keep going back andyou look at him. The five guys
that Dick Williams signed terrible, AndI know everybody thinks that the guy that
went to Philadelphia was a great playerand everything. He should just send Joey
Vado part of his check for battingin front of Vado the whole season,

(50:15):
because Vado had a terrific year.I mean, this team cannot sign a
good free agent. And the problemis, and I know you're gonna get
mad if I criticize David Bell.No, he doesn't adjust. I mean
he lets the leadoff hitters excuse me, h, on the second baseman,

(50:38):
what's his name? The one rightnow is Jonathan India. Jonathan India one
for twenty six. You want himin the lineup, move him somewhere,
not leave him in the leadoff.Then he replaces him with the left handed
hitting outfielder. It hasn't It's likehasn't had a hit since early in the
season. He doesn't adjust, hedoes doesn't make movements. He lets Candelary

(51:01):
of that fourth or fifth all season. This is why this team can't score.
And I need to make a publicapology on your program, all right?
Can I address what you just saidfirst and then you can do that,
all right? So, I thinkthe criticism of the Reds lineup that
you just sort of outlined is legitimateand fair. I think more so than

(51:23):
people would like to admit. Thelineup itself is not solely a reflection of
the manager. He has input,he writes the names on the card.
I think whatever you see the lineupon a whatever the lineup is on a
given night, is more the resultof collaboration than folks are either willing to
admit, willing to realize, orcare. But that doesn't mean that the

(51:45):
criticisms aren't valid because everything you justoutlined I feel the same way. Okay,
good, One more thing before myapology. You know who's you know
who shouldn't be on this or shouldnever be on this team. And it's
not that you know he he's abad person, bad guy, or anything.
Bubba Thompson. This team can't affordto carry a player that's an automatic

(52:08):
count New York Yankees, a twentyseven New York Yankees, the sixty one
Yankees, the seventy five Reds.You can carry a specialist, a pinch
runner, specialist, a defensive specialist. This team can't do it. Yeah,
but is he on the team ofTJ. Friedel's healthy? Of course
not. If they could have foundsomebody better between now and when Freil gets

(52:31):
back. Anybody who could hit theball. They don't need a defensive specialists.
They need someone, Are you thatguy? I mean, we're there's
got to be somebody out there thatcan hit better than him. Well if
they, if they were, ifthey were that good, wouldn't they be
on a team right now? Imean, like, I'm with you,
but Bubba Thompson does not offer competitiveat bats, But he's not on the

(52:53):
team of Freedles. I mean,unfortunately, like Santiago espinall same thing.
He's fine with their he is awfulwith the bat. That dude's not even
a rat. He's not even apart of this organization if they're not dealing
with the Mount McClain situation and theNoelve Marte situation. So yeah, unfortunately,
yes, So unfortunately, you're you'redealing with with guys who are not

(53:15):
big league caliber players, or playersthat they would have no interest in bringing
here, that are only here outof necessity. Well, my point would
be a good front office would beprepared for something like this. At least
have somebody a hitter in mind somewhere. There's got to be somewhere out there.

(53:36):
It's available anyway from my public apologyhere two Sundays ago, Austin somebody
was doing the Sunday Afternoon show.God does a great job. Yes,
I definitely like him. Okay,So anyway, I called up and proposed
the trade. And I know howyou all like fans proposing trades, you

(53:57):
know, But I offered to IndiaHunter Green in a high prospect to the
Braves for Austin Riley. I wantto public apologize to the Braves be insulted.
What was I thinking. I don'tknow why the Atlanta Braves would They've
just invested and and by the way, a contract that I don't think is

(54:22):
that out of whack and Austin Rileyto be the third baseman for the rest
of our lives. So I don'tyes, but the breads is the same
thing. Was a Hunter Green?Not really? They no, but they
offered him a long term contract andthey will tell you before the season that
he is a cy young candidate.They did not give him, thank you,
Mark. They did not give HunterGreen a long term contract. They

(54:44):
extended his existing deal for one year. Hunter Green is the one hundred and
second highest paid pitcher in the sportthis year. It was a sound investment.
Then it's a sound investment. NowIt's four thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station. Cincinnati's need toServe you sports headlines are a service of

(55:07):
Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrainprotection and guarantee credit approval from their family
to yours for life, Kelsey,chef dot comrades and phillies again tonight at
GABP. Andrew Abbott will throw tonightfor Cincinnati. Red's looking for at least
a run and ideally at least morethan two hits after getting shut out last

(55:27):
night? Are you ready for tonight'sstarting lineup against left hander Christopher Sanchez.
I will give it to you hereit is. I just have to pull
it up because I read it offthe internet. Well, let's se let's
see. Let's see all right now. Fair Child's leading off again at center,
Steer and left Stevenson behind the plate, Candelario's at third, Cees at

(55:51):
first, Elie Denacruz at shortstop,Martini is dhing, Espinal is playing second
base, Will Benson in right fieldsix on a seven hundred w l W.
I don't know that we have anyother big sports I'm not even sure
that like saying the Reds have agame tonight is a headline, But here
we are. I don't think Ihave anything else in the way of a

(56:12):
local sports headlines. I also haveno idea why I'm holding a piece of
paper with month old college basketball bets. Here we are. I don't know,
I don't know. You know,there's something we do. We it's
it's it's gonna say it's it's rarethat I like the I told you so
thing, but I'm gonna do itanyway. Uh, Hunter Green gets a

(56:34):
contract, and like I I know, not everybody follows the ins and outs
of how baseball contracts work for playerswhen they first get to the big leagues
and then stick around for their firstsix years. What they hear or what
they see, and like I understandit, it's because the money is so

(56:55):
insane. You see the dollar amount. What the did, what the Reds
did with Hunter Green is they isthey essentially guaranteed locked in what he was
going to make for the remainder ofhis time that the Reds had team control
over Hunter Green, and then addedone more guaranteed year, so they essentially

(57:19):
gave him a one year extension ontop of what they already had. Now
there is another year the proverbial Iguess eighth year of the deal, or
the Reds have a club option.But they didn't give him this long drawn
out contract. They didn't pay himfor the next ten years. They didn't

(57:44):
offer him a Homer Bailey type ofdeal. They essentially locked in his deal.
And I read the numbers last week. If you looked at twenty twenty
eight, which is when Hunter Greenis due to make sixteen million dollars,
the last guaranteed year of that deal, sixteen million dollars this season would not

(58:04):
make him one of the twenty eighthighest paid pitchers in the sport. Yes,
in real world terms, that's alot of money. That's more money
than I can wrap my brain around. But in baseball terms, for a
twenty eight year old starting pitcher,that's a bargain. The Reds are betting
on him being a bargain. Butwhat happens, Like we did this with

(58:27):
Joe Evado, Joey Vado was belovedin this town. He gets a contract,
It's just it's it's what money doesto us man. We resent it
sometimes so much. Suddenly Joe Evado, who was effectively the same player he
was once he signed that contract tothe guy who was the MVP in twenty

(58:49):
ten, when he was basically makingthe league minimum. Well, we lead
the conversation with the money. I'venever believed in doing that. I've never.
I've never. I didn't believe indoing it with Joey Vado. I
don't believe in doing it with JoeBurrow. But Joe Burrow gets his money
right, highest paid player in thehistory of the sport, and suddenly when

(59:12):
he's hurt, you got to hearhow overpaid he is. What Joe Burrow
is making when he gets hurt.I don't think about what he's making.
I think about the impact on theteam and how last year's Bengals season never
really got underway because Joe was absentfor most of training camp, not himself
at the beginning of the season,and then obviously, right when it kind

(59:34):
of felt like things were going inthe right direction, he suffers the risk
injury. That stinks. That's aset of circumstances that's hard to overcome if
your quarterback is under a rookie contractor if he's making very little money relatively
speaking, I just the Hunter Greenfor me. Hunter Green thing for me.
I think it's it's a combination ofa lack of understanding of, or

(59:57):
maybe even a willingness to understand howbaseball contracts work, an unwillingness to understand
sort of the money that's involved herefor high end starting pitchers, Hunter Green
this year is the one hundred andsecond highest paid pitcher in the game.
He might say he's he's basically makingwhat he's worth. Maybe you believe that
there are one hundred and one betterpitchers in baseball than Hunter Green. I

(01:00:20):
haven't really done the mat there.I don't know. But first of all,
what the Reds did is is theythey made a pretty calculated wager here.
By the way, probably are gonnado it again. Hey, we
think this guy is a chance tobe really good, so good that what
we would like to do is lockin right now what he's making and if

(01:00:42):
he ends up being as good aswe think, we're gonna end up looking
like geniuses here, because we're gonnabe getting an elite guy or a top
end pitcher, front of the rotationguy for pennies relatively speaking, Like that's
a that's a that's an investment.It's a smart investment, but he was.
He's gonna pitch for the Reds allof those years anyway. The only

(01:01:05):
year they've guaranteed that extended the existingdeal was twenty twenty eight. He was
gonna pitch for the Reds this yearif they gave him no pay raise.
By the way, he's what nowfive starts in. He has to get
better. He's got to be moreconsistent. He's got to do a better
job of limiting hard contact. He'sgot to be better his second time through

(01:01:29):
the batting order. I am bettingon those things happening. He's twenty four
years old. Last night was hisfifty first start. Let's say that next
season, which next year would bethe first year where hunter Green would be
arbitration eligible. Now he's not anymore. Hunter Green's gonna get a one hundred
percent raise next year. He's dueto make six million bucks this year,

(01:01:52):
he makes three. If hunter Greenover the next five and a half months
kicks it into gear and start supplyinglessons learned from the first fifty starts,
stays healthy, has a quality season, pitches deeper into games more frequently.

(01:02:14):
If he were to do those things, and then go into arbitration. Chances
are next season he's making more thanthe six mil he's guaranteed this year.
And by the way, that likethe Vado thing, I at least understood
from the standpoint that people could say, well, Vado's making what he's making,
and that keeps them from being ableto make the team better elsewhere.
That's not the case with Hunter Greenright now. That's not the case with

(01:02:37):
any of these guys. They havenobody occupying such a huge chunk of player
payroll that it's gonna preclude them frommaking the team better elsewhere. They spent
more than most teams this offseason.The Cincinnati Reds spent more than most teams
this offseason. That's with Hunter Green'ssalary locked in. It's a smart bet.
We had the guy anyway, we'regonna lock in. By the way,

(01:03:00):
it's a little bit easier to buildaround a guy when you have at
least one or two dudes whose salaryyou know what it is, You don't
have to project, you don't haveto guess. By the way, let's
say if in his age twenty sixthseason, now Hunter really gets going,
and if you're skeptical that that's gonnahappen. That's fair. But he really
gets going, and he's now consideredone of the better pitchers in the National

(01:03:24):
League, and maybe he's an AllStar. He's going to be making eight
million dollars would not put him amongthe top fifty highest paid pitchers in the
sport this year. They didn't unnecessarilypay him. They didn't give him a
long term contract extension. They essentiallysaid, here's what you're gonna get paid.

(01:03:45):
You're going to be pitching for us. We've put a lot into you.
We're not trading you anytime soon.Your salary is guaranteed. We're gonna
bet that you end up being quitea bargain. And by the way,
you'll have a chance to maybe recoupsome of the money you could have made
when you hit free agency before you'rethirty years old. What the Reds did
was smart financial planning. It shouldn'tbe dwelled on. Brendanman and Jones on

(01:04:13):
baseball Coming up in ten minutes.Quarter to five. Perfect Show continues ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Listen, you knew the answer to that question?
Two oh series lead, stirring comeback, then the game on an eight
to nothing run after trailing by fivein the game's final thirty seconds. Philadelphia

(01:04:35):
seventy six Ers gag missed free throws, turnovers, bad coaching, and just
flat out getting out toughed by thetoughest team in the league. Isaiah Hartenstein
grabbing rebounds, Dante Devincenzo with thedouble bang from Mike Breen, and the
Knicks overcome a bad Jalen Brunson shootingperformance to take a two oh series lead

(01:04:57):
for the first time in an NBAplayoff series in e in years. Also,
the Lakers lost last night. Tarren, I won't dwell on it.
My apologies. Yes, there weresome officiating inconsistencies in both games. Lebron
was complaining about a call that wasoverturned in the third quarter. Buddy,

(01:05:17):
I love Lebron. James, comeon, I think that's a code for
something else. I think he's tiredof Darvin Ham and that's don't think he
could complain about officiating. Probably somevalidity to that. Uh, Sixers fans
have a gripe. I'm the firstto admit it. Philly fans have a
gripe. If you're among them.They got away with holding Tyrese Maxi on

(01:05:40):
the inbound play and Nick Nurse triedto get a time out and couldn't.
He should have gotten one, theyPhilly fans, I'm willing to say it,
have a legitimate gripe. Sometimes yourteam loses a playoff game because a
ref misses a pretty obvious call andthen the other team scores a bunch of
points in a very short amount oftime, which is what happened when Reggie
Miller put off Greg Anthony in Gameone of the Eastern Conference semifinals in nineteen

(01:06:03):
ninety five on his way to scoringeight points and nine seconds. And you
have to live with it and stillmove on and figure out a way to
win the series. Maybe, unlikethe ninety five Nicks, the Sixers will
do that. Brendiman and Jones onBaseball's Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic

(01:06:25):
from the UC Health Traffic Center.Regular screenings are key for early cancer detection,
especially for breast, lung, andcorectal cancers. Schedule years now at
the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center calledfive one three, five eighty five UCCC.
Today, there's a few accidents towatch for seventy four West of two
to seventy five Montgomery Road northbound afterCooper Road Dana Avenue near Madison Road,
and there's a disabled blocking the leftlane seventy five south at Western Hills Viaduct.

(01:06:49):
I'm John Crawford with Traffic. Fifteenthirty. Taco Tuesday. Oh Yeah,
guess what day it is? TacoTuesday. Guess what day is Taco
Tuesday. Taco Tuesday. Yeah,Taco Tuesday. Two oh Tuesday, My

(01:07:12):
world tarn. Good afternoon, leaggOr ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for
listening. Hopefully you're having a terrifictwo and oh Tuesday. By the way,
can I make a request that Brendanmanand Jones segment. I want more
of those where they devote the entiresegment to talking about old ball players that
like I grew up watching, Theydid Cal Daniels, the Kevin Mitchell won.

(01:07:36):
Kevin Mitchell his best year's late eighties, early nineties, but one of
those dudes, like growing up,I don't know that there was a hitter
who consistently hit the ball as hardas Kevin Mitchell. We don't have stats
like exit velocity and hard hit ballpercentage for players who played back then,

(01:08:00):
But it felt like that dude nevermade a quiet out. That guy and
did strike out a ton either onlyhad one year where he struck out over
one hundred times. But you talkabout like cartoonishly insane numbers with the Reds,
Kevin Mitchell was here ninety three,ninety four, and ninety six.
He never played in more than onehundred games in a year with the Reds.

(01:08:21):
Ninety four obviously was the strike year, and so I think the major
league leader in games played that seasonwas played in one hundred and sixteen games.
But if you look at that stretchthe three years combined Kevin Mitchell in
Cincinnati, he batted three thirty twowith an ops of ten to forty five

(01:08:44):
and hit fifty five home runs inseven hundred and forty seven at bats.
Now, the ninety three teams stunk, the ninety four team didn't get a
chance to finish the season, andin nineteen ninety six this city decided he
didn't care about baseball. That teamwas the definition average eighty one and eighty
one. But like that dude rakedas a Red raked. And to illustrate

(01:09:09):
just how cartoonish the numbers were inthe mid nineties, So ninety four,
the strike happens, I think Augusttwelfth, so the last month and a
half of the season doesn't happen.Kevin Mitchell, though, hit thirty home
runs that season, and he playedin ninety five games. Hit thirty home
runs. That was good enough fortenth in Major League Baseball in a season

(01:09:35):
that ended on August thirtieth. Therewere nine guys who hit more than thirty
home runs. Of course, backthen, if you even said, hey,
maybe not everything's on the up andup here, people got madagia.
Kevin Mitchell in ninety four finished ninthfor the Reds, ninth in the MVP
voting, right ninth in the NationalLeague MVP voting. The numbers were so

(01:09:59):
obst I heard that you wouldn't evengive him a look, like I'm not
saying he should have finished higher.Jeff Bagwell won it. Just go on
Baseball Reference and look at the nineteenninety four NLMVP. Just look at the
voting. It has all their numbers. Kevin Mitchell's numbers were absurd. He
had three twenty six that year,thirty five thirty home runs in ninety five

(01:10:21):
games, just absurd. And yetthe numbers were so ridiculous in that era
that numbers like that wouldn't even giveyou strong consideration to be a most valuable
player. So I want more segmentslike that. I want fewer segments about
where Tracy's going on vacation. Iwant more segments about old ball players.

(01:10:45):
Sign me up for that. Infact, I'll submit requests. I'll submit
request to Marty and Tracy and theycould talk about old ball players. I
want them to talk about Kevin Mitchell'ssegment was fun. One more thing here
quickly on the Reds by the way, five o'clock Happy Hours is service of
our friends at michelob Ultra. Howgood does a mic culture sound right now?
I could crush, frankly, morethan one mic culture brood for active

(01:11:09):
living. And if you're going tothe ballpark tonight, I don't know what
the weather is gonna do. Culturecan't beat that. We do Paul questions
or Paul questions on Twitter at Moeggerby the way, a service of United
Heartland Insurance. So I think thisis kind of interesting. We were talking
about Hunter Green and his start lastnight. The good was the Reds needed

(01:11:32):
length. He gave him length,Like my whole thing yesterday with Hunter Green
is I just want you to pitchdeeper into games they did not win.
Let's be honest, it wouldn't havemattered. The Reds couldn't hit Ranger Suarez.
This is not a very good offensiveteam right now. I think that's
gonna change. But it's not avery good offensive team right now. But

(01:11:53):
at the very least, if you'regonna lose a day after you have to
go to your bullpen in the firstinning, could you at least not lose
and have to use a thousand reliefpitchers. Casey Legomina came up and kind
of pitched the game out of range, but Hunter Green gave him seven.
The definition the official definition of aquality start is six innings or more three

(01:12:15):
runs or less. That's an eraof four or five. Oh well,
seven innings four runs is not aquality start by that definition, right But
he gave him some length. Butit is interesting, and he was.
He was terrific in the first coupleof innings. The Castianos blooper was really
unfortunate. Stuff like that happens.He threw his fastball a bunch last night,

(01:12:39):
but as has often been the case, he gets through the batting order
a second time, and he can'tgo through it unscathed. Hitters have made
adjustments to him. Now how doeshe adjust? I just did this as
an exercise last night. I putit in very basic black and white terms.
Now, most of life is inthe gray, but I made it
black and white. Green start lastnight, pass or fail. Now,

(01:13:04):
there's there's a lot of room betweenpass or fail, right, Like an
A is not the same as aC, but both are passing. And
I'm an expert on this because Iwas a C student. But I'm making
a black and white pass or fail. Seven innings which is good, four
runs, which is not great.But again, he's not the main reason

(01:13:26):
why that he was gonna have tobe perfect to win that game last night,
with the way Ranger Suarez through andwith the number of just non competitive
at bats the Reds had, it'sclose to fifty to fifty. Now,
I don't think anybody would call lastnight a smashing success. I don't think
anybody would call it an unmitigated failure. It was okay, but I just

(01:13:51):
I'm just sort of curious as tolike what that start If that's pass or
fail? So vote now, atMoeger. Again, the voting is pretty
close to fifty to fifty. Ithink that's interesting. So you'll find roughly
half of the folks who are chimingin on this. We'll look at last
night starting go past, and halfwould say fail. And I'll admit to

(01:14:15):
being a little conflicted here. Youknow, again, if I put this
in terms that allowed for some gray, well, then it's neither pass or
fail. It's somewhere in the middle. On one hand, you got some
length. On the other, theydidn't win the game. Four runs over
seven innings isn't great. He wasokay at times. He was not okay

(01:14:43):
at times, specifically in the middleinnings past veil vote now Moeger at Moeger.
We'll get to that in uh injust a second. Reds and Phillies
again tonight, we do have tospend some time on something that happened today
with the Bengals. We'll do thatin just about seven minutes as we get
set for the draft, which beginson Thursday. We're always trying to find

(01:15:09):
fixes. We're always trying to findsolutions to stuff. I think that's why
we obsess over batting orders. Hey, putting this guy here and then sliding
this guy to here. That's goingto be a fix. And by the
way, sometimes it works, andthen sometimes you just sort of accept that
there's a problem and the only solutionto the problem is everybody needs to do
better. The Reds over the lastseven games are averaging just a tiny shade

(01:15:33):
over three runs per game, andconsider that in two of those games they've
scored seven runs. They have figuredout a way to at least tread water
by sweeping that series against the Angels. But right now, this team offensively
just has a lot of guys whoare either slumping or not having good years,
or are just not very good offensiveplayers. Their fortunes are only going

(01:16:00):
to change if those things change.There's no this isn't where we were a
year ago, where it's call everybodyup right. A year ago at this
time, this team wasn't great.But you could you could talk about bringing
up Matt McClain and bringing up Ellieand bringing up you know, eventually down
the road Christian and Carnassi on Strandand Noel A. Martinez bringing these guys
up, well, that's that's nothappening. The Saviors, not in Louisville,

(01:16:27):
the Saviors are likely on the injuredlist or suspended. Most of those
guys not coming back anytime soon.So I don't I certainly believe Ellie should
be hitting higher in the batting order, But you're you're asking a manager who's
got some dudes who wouldn't be hereif the circumstances were different. You're asking

(01:16:47):
him to make do without some ofthe guys that were looked at as key
components to this year's team. They'replaying backups now. You're being completely fair
if you expect Jonathan India to hitbetter or even like a Will Benson and
Tyler Stevenson. Right now, theyjust have too many guys who are not
carrying their weight offensively, and that'snot changing because they trade for somebody,

(01:17:11):
or promote somebody, or bring somebodyback off the injury list anytime soon.
It's just going to have to changethrough better performance. That's a very basic
way of putting it. It's it'snot maybe the most ideal way to put
it, but that doesn't make ituntrue. Five point three seven four nine
fifteen thirty A six six seven ohtwo three seven seven six Bengals did make

(01:17:33):
a roster mo today we have totalk about it next on ESPN fifteen thirty,
but away from five o'clock. Thisis ESPN fifteen thirty d five o'clock
Happy Hour, which is a serviceof michelob Ultraum. I am an idiot,
so I neglected to mention this whenwe did our our bottom of the
hour sports headlines last hour, Italked about the Reds game, and I

(01:17:56):
said, well, there's there's noother there's no other local sports headlines.
That is is that is incorrect,That is not true. Jake Browning signs
a two year contract. Now,obviously Jake Browning had no wiggle room here.
We discuss this incessantly during his timeas the Bengals backup quarterback. They

(01:18:16):
were not gonna lose him in freeagency. He was an exclusive rights free
agent, which essentially meant all theBengals had to do is was tender him
a one year contract and that wasgonna be it. He gets a two
year contract with the team, sohe gets an extra year. This is
this is great. I mean,like, I don't have a list of

(01:18:40):
one through thirty two backup quarterbacks inthe NFL, but this is a legitimately
great quarterback. Situation. Joe Burrow, hopefully stays healthy, is one of
the best in the sport. JakeBrowning is one of the most reliable at
what he does. You cannot beatthat. Think about like where we were
going into the season last year.If Joe has to miss time, what

(01:19:04):
are you going to get? Noidea right now? You have a general
sense of what it could look like. Different offensive coordinator this coming season,
but another year in the system forJake, so there's no familiarity issues.
There's a good working relationship between Joeand between Jake Browning. If Jake Browning
has to play, that's pretty good. And you who knows how things unfold

(01:19:28):
early last year, My guess isJoe still would have played. But early
last season when Joe was quite visiblynot himself but still trying to play,
and the Bengals were losing games,and the counter to what the Bengals were
doing was you want to try JakeBrowning. You have no idea what he
can do. Now in a situationlike that, you might be a little

(01:19:49):
bit more willing to take a littlebit more time, not rush things,
not force things, and feel likeyou know what this guy can get us
through a game. This guy canget us. Through this guy, we
can design a game plan around whathe does and what he does well and
what he does poorly, and wecan still function and we can still win.
The idea behind any backup quarterbacks tonot have them play as many games

(01:20:11):
as Jake Browning played last year.The idea behind a backup quarterback is,
in a pinch, we need them. Maybe it's for a half, maybe
it's for a series, maybe it'sfor a week, maybe it's for consecutive
games. It's not six, seven, eight, nine games. It's we
want to still function. We wantto still have a chance to win,
even if we don't have our guy. Say what you want about the Bengals,
good and bad, or however optimisticor pessimistic you might be about this

(01:20:36):
coming season, and I'm for themost part pretty damn optimistic. But one
of the things we're not going tospend any time talking about is backup quarterback
Derby or OMG, what would happenif Jake has to play? And by
the way they they do them alittle bit of a solid, They give
him an extra year, gets alittle bit of a pay bomb, like

(01:20:57):
they didn't have to do that.And they did. I mean the one
year the exclusive rights free agent meansthe Bengals could have simply said one year
contract a league minimum salary based onhis level of experience. Instead they extended
an extra year. It's pretty goodand so for the next two seasons,

(01:21:24):
the Bengals are going to have apretty damn good quarterback situation. Like last
year in many respects, was ahuge waste. Right, the team didn't
make the postseason, they had alot of guys who were hurt. It
never really took off. But atthe very least, if you're looking for
things that did get accomplished during theseason, they have a backup quarterback now,

(01:21:46):
one worth keeping around and one whocan provide some degree of comfort if
you are thinking about what would happenif Joe had to miss more time.
And let's be honest, man,I mean, I don't love the whole
injury prone term as it gets thrownaround sometimes way too loosely. But Joe
Burrow has played four NFL seasons.At the end of three of those four

(01:22:10):
seasons, he's been hurt. Rookieseason against Washington after the Super Bowl,
right, he hobbled off and suffereda knee injury and then what happened with
his wrist on Thursday Night football againstthe Ravens last year. So the smart
money is over the course of thenext two seasons, for sure, but

(01:22:30):
even just the upcoming season, hopefullyyou're not needing Jake Browning for a long
stretch of time. The chances arehe's going to have to play meaningful snaps
at some point. A year ago, if I would have said that to
you, you would have shuddered interror, and understandably, so now I
say that you feel remotely confident,remotely comfortable. How could you not twenty

(01:22:56):
six minutes after five o'clock that Ireferenced before, we have nearly four hundred
people who have voted. Fifty twopercent looked at Hunter Green's start last night
and say pass. Here's why I'mthinking. I think I'm gonna lean pass.
Yes, they lose. Yes,four runs over seven innings is not

(01:23:19):
great. But I'm the guy whokeeps talking about Hunter being in the developmental
stages of his career. Last nightwas his fifty first big league start.
Last night was also the twentiest startthat he has made where he has gotten
through six and he gave him alittle extra got through seven. I'm gonna
go pass because he found a wayto give the team what it needed and

(01:23:44):
that could be used I think asa pretty positive learning experience. He has
to get better. And again,like it's it's not lacking patients. It's
not lacking patients with Hunters, it'skind of us all being impatient with the
Reds not winning. If we wantthis team to build upon what they did
last year and win even more gamesthis season and have a chance to make

(01:24:05):
the playoffs, maybe win the division, perhaps even advance in the postseason,
the learning curve for Hunter Green,the learning curve for a lot of these
guys, has to accelerate. That'sagain like that, maybe more than anything
else, I have talked for weeksnow about you know, just how we
should all understand really how hard itis to do what the Reds are trying

(01:24:29):
to do. They're trying to winwell at the same time at the big
league level developing players. They're developingplayers. It's not easy to do.
So if you want the winning tooccur, then the development is going to
have to be accelerated. You canapply this to Lodolo and who's been terrific
so far in his first starts.You can apply this to Graham Ashcraft.
You could apply this to a lotof guys on the team. You got

(01:24:51):
to apply it to Hunter Green too. Want the Reds to win big this
year, Want the Reds to bea factor in September, Want the Reds
to play in October. Starting pitchingis going to be a big reason why
that happens. If starting pitching's abig reason why that happens, the learning
curve for a lot of these guysaccelerates. But you could argue, I
think last night might have been astep in the right direction, just from

(01:25:14):
the sheer standpoint of not just length, but the pitch efficiency needed to achieve
that length. He didn't throw onehundred pitches last night, didn't have the
world's best stuff. Thought it wasinteresting how fastball heavy he was, but
you got to get through the thelineup a second time better. But if
you're looking for pitch efficiency, HunterGreen did give you that last night.

(01:25:40):
It's why I will vote pass,But I do understand why anybody else would
vote fail. Vote now at Moeger. Thanks to United Heartland Insurance, Sports
Headlines and part of our conversation withPaul Danner Junior coming up on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports station taren. We'realmost there. It's five point thirty five.

(01:26:04):
Every segment has started right on time, every break has been taken on
time. We aren't there yet.We're closing it on the finish line of
the long elusive perfect show. Ifanyone in the history of this of this
station executed a perfect show, I'msure Lance has. I know Tony and

(01:26:30):
Austin, I'm not. Back inthe day when Lance did this show,
he had his share of perfect shows. But in the history since we started
on this show, on this particularshow in two thousand and nine, and
even back when I was on nineto Noon in two thousand and seven and
eight, I don't think I've everbeen part of a perfect show. So

(01:26:53):
we're not quite there yet. Perfectshow is every segment has to start on
time. We've had perfs, we'vehad perfect starts. I don't know that
we've had a perfect show, butit's it's kind of like if you throw
a perfect game in baseball, it'scool. You don't get anything right if

(01:27:14):
you throw if you throw a completegame, shutout, nobody gets on base.
It's a perfect game. You couldthrow a complete game, shutout and
give up three hits and two walks. You get the same as if you
throw a perfect game. So we'renot gonna get a bonus or anything for
doing the perfect show. We're justgonna go to bed tonight with the satisfaction
that we were a part of Moegger'sshow history if we get there. Sports

(01:27:39):
headlines are a service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed
credit approval from their family to yoursfor life, kelseyshev dot com. It
is kind of gnarly looking outside Redsand Philly's game two tonight of a four
game set. Andrew Abbott is gonnastart for Cincinnati. If the gameplay,

(01:28:00):
Christopher Sanchez will throw for Philly.Cincinnati's a starting line. I don't know
if sometimes the weather here looks awfuland then you know, you go downtown
it's great. So I'm just tellingyou what I'm seeing out my p pole
window right now for the third timetoday. Your Red starting lineup here.
It is Fairchild's in center, steersand left. Stevenson is catching Candelario's at

(01:28:25):
third base, Ces at first.Ellie de la Cruz is betting sixth and
playing shortstop. Nick Martini is dhingEspinal is playing second base and betting eighth.
Will Benson is in right field.He hits ninth again six p forty
this evening on seven hundred WLW.I mentioned before, Jake Browning signs a
two year contract with the Bengals toremain as Joe Burrow's backup. Logan Woodside

(01:28:48):
is also back. Logan Woodside takenin the seventh round by the Bengals of
the twenty eighteen draft, the draftwhere they took Billy Price in the first
round. Billy Price no longer inthe league. Logan Woodside, who actually
got in a game last year forthe Atlanta Falcons, is back in the
NFL, back with the Bengals.Congratulations to him. NFL Draft will be

(01:29:12):
on Thursday night, don't forget Thursdayafternoon. We're broadcasting from a Long Necks
and Wilder right. There's three locations, Wilder, hebre and Richwood. We
will be at the Wilder location andwe've got some really cool prizes thanks to
our friends at Budweiser. We've gotme, We've got awesome food. James
orpen is gonna come by. Thisis the fourth straight year that we have

(01:29:34):
broadcast from Long Necks on the firstday of the Draft. We cannot wait.
Hopefully you can join us right offI two seventy five the Wilder Exit.
It's gonna be an absolute blast LongNecks in Wilder on a Thursday for
the Draft from three until six o'clock. We hope to see you. There
should be good tomorrow in the show. Kelsey Conway is gonna be with us

(01:29:57):
at three point thirty three. MikeRenner, formerly of Pro Football Focus,
one of the very best draft analyststhere is. He is going to be
on this show as well. Wedon't know the time yet, but we
do know he is going to joinus and we are looking forward to that.
Tons of a good draft stuff toget to with both Kelsey and Mike
tomorrow. Speaking of good draft stuff, Paul Danner Junior, The Athletic The

(01:30:19):
Growler Podcast. Next Happy Hours ofService of Michelo Ultra sixteen away from six
o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Part of our conversation with Paul Dayner
Junior is coming up in just aminute. I thought for sure, Tarin
you would play some pitbull today becauseI guess he announced that he is going

(01:30:40):
to play Cincinnati again. Didn't evenhear about that? Well, I didn't
either until Tony and Austin. Tony, Oh what did you? Are you
happy that Sam Mall is back?Sam Mal's back. Yes, he's been
activated from the fifteen day Al whouldthey send down Casey Lugomina? He got
sent down. Sam sam Mal lastyear deadline acquisition from the A's did a

(01:31:01):
pretty nice job. That's a goodaddition. Red's bullpen in Legamina went very
good last night, but who cares. Red's bullpen over the weekend against the
Angels was terrific. Top notch,top notch, I say, and Sam
Mall sam Maul, if I'm notmistaken, I think the number was twenty
four. He pitched in twenty fourgames with the Reds last year, excuse

(01:31:24):
me, after he was acquired,and I think he gave up a run
in exactly one of them. Thatsounds about right. I think he was
like touch for a run. Itdid a good job inheriting base runners and
all that other stuff too. Butyeah, he did a nice job.
He's back, and that's a goodthing. Andrew Abbott on the Mountain tonight
for Cincinnati. By the way,Bryce Harper is still on the paternity list

(01:31:46):
right he is still not back.Yes, no, Bryce Harper. That's
kind of nice. Miss tonight,miss tomorrow. He's supposed to be back
in time for Thursday. It didn'tmatter that that Ranger Suarez who threw last
night. If there are right now, if there are five better left handers
right now in baseball, I'd liketo know who they are. Maybe Nicoldolo

(01:32:11):
was one of them. Rangers Warezwas terrific last night. Every single Tuesday
or Buddy. Paul Danner Junior joinsus from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
His seven round mock Draft at theAthletic was posted today and his Mega
Mock Draft podcast was posted yesterday.Get that Good at YouTube Watch it with
Jeff Hobson, Jay Morrison, JamesRapeene and Paul. Among the different things

(01:32:35):
we have discussed was how Zach Taylorwas kind of revealing yesterday about the process
that goes into executing the draft whileit's unfolding. Yeah, I mean,
I think it's fascinating because, Imean, teams do do things differently and
the Bengals are built a little bitdifferently, but you know they when you

(01:32:58):
get into that room, it's mostlydone. There's especially on Thursday night.
Yeah, there's really I think there'sthis idea that there's action. It's incredibly
Thursday Night's incredibly boring in there becauseif there's anything that they have done and
put to bed, it's the orderof what's gonna happen in round one,
like one through eighteen, and reallythe same for up the forty. You

(01:33:19):
get way more action on day twobecause you get a lot more trades are
involved a whole day. Teams haverecalibrated their boards and things have changed,
but Day one has been so structured. You know where you would trade to,
you know who you would talk to. You probably have things set in
place. If you're gonna move,you know who you're gonna take, and
what that order is. If itgets to that, so it becomes almost

(01:33:40):
like, Okay, get this outof the way. I would want to
be in there on day two.That is the most action pack day.
Everybody has needs that they're trying tofill, things that they're reacting to.
Everybody's trying to move. That tome is the day that is the ultimate
where where you know, that's whereyou win and loose in this league is
accomplishing your goals with those Friday picks. And I think that will be how

(01:34:04):
this draft will absolutely be judged forthe Bengals this year, just because of
the way they're set up the extrapick, their ability to move up and
down if they want to, andtheir needs that they have at very important
positions. I think that is themost fascinating day and we'll see how they
handle it. We talked about ByronMurphy and what they would do if he's

(01:34:26):
there at eighteen and sign me upfor taking him fills an obvious need.
Uh, Why don't I feel verygood about what they could do with defensive
tackle later in the draft if he'snot there? Well, because there isn't
any I mean there's there's not There'snot a ton of players that no one's

(01:34:46):
really gonna bring you that that's wherethose guys go there. Yeah. Have
we talked so much about Byron Murphythat we make the other guys seem like
they just totally suck? No,I don't think they any. I don't
think it do so, I thinkit's closed. I don't know that he
is the top of their board.I mean, I'm just a lot of
people like Newton more. Yeah,some people like and that's fine. I
just you know, that's great.I mean, you can get He's he

(01:35:09):
will bring you all the pass rushyou want to. I mean, that's
that's what you're looking for. There'snot as much of the other stuff there
as Murphy gives you a little moreversatility, a little more against the run,
but you know, pass rushing frominside is as valuable as it gets,
so I I think you can accomplish. They have put themselves into a
position a little bit where yeah,you're not you're not gonna get what you

(01:35:32):
want after that. There's because there'sthat's where those guys go. I think
they can piece it together after that. I think there's plenty of guys that
that could come in here, butthere's just not a lot of history in
this league of players coming from wherethe Bengals will pick in round two around
three and coming in and having bigtime impact, and they kind of need

(01:35:55):
some impact big That's the thing.It's they put. They put themselves in
this spot, and that's why thatfeeling exists. My question was not so
much about the lack of talent,for lack of a better way of putting
it. After Byron Murphy, it'sthe position the Bengals are in and what
they've done to themselves specifically at thatspot. Yeah, I think they would.

(01:36:15):
You don't ever want to feel likeyou have an obvious need, and
I think that they've done some certainlytoo. It doesn't feel that way.
I mean with Rankins and Hilly,they need bodies, but it doesn't feel
like they are just a disaster there. But they need pieces. I mean,
they need more in there, andthey need it for this year and

(01:36:38):
they need it for the future.You don't ever want to have even that
feeling. But that doesn't mean,you know, there's plenty of players that
they could sit here and grab ChrisJenkins at forty nine and everyone will by
the time they pick the fourth round, everyone will already be sold that he's
the answer and that was the bestthing that could have happened. Yeah,
or any number of these guys thatdo have potential that you take in the

(01:37:00):
second round and they're part of arotation and you can find a way to
make it work, and then they'lltake another one on Day three that can
come in and be the new JoshTupo and you can see how it all
fits together. Is that gonna beenough to slow down Travis Henry or I'm
sorry, Derek Henry. Derek TravisHenry school reference like that, Dereck Henry,
Sure job? I think I meanI don't think you have Baltimore overall

(01:37:21):
running game. Yeah, okay,I mean I maybe I think you don't
have You don't have to have DJreader to stop the run. You know,
you can find other ways to doit. Lou Anamo will be in
charge of scheming that up. Theyhad DJ Reader last year and they didn't
stop the run very well. Idon't disagree with that. I think that's

(01:37:45):
partially on lou Ana Romo's lap.Is you got to figure out how to
do this? Is there a newway that you got to construct it?
What is that fits always comes backto run fits? Isn't it run fit
practice? Can we put you You'veoften talked about jobs that you would like
to hold at the Bengals. Couldwe make you like director of run fits

(01:38:08):
and just have you run drills helpingeveryone with their run fits? Like?
Is that? Can I make this? Can we find a way to produce
this maybe, But I just Ihave you know, we were talking about
like nightmare scenarios. Mine is weget to like five or six weeks in
and they're getting beaten up upfront andteams are running up and down against them,

(01:38:28):
and I listen to analysts talk aboutrun fits. Yeah, whenever I'm
hearing somebody talk about run fits,first of all, I get really bored
very quickly. Second, nobody evertalks about unfits when they're stopping the run,
right, not a lot of runfit columns being written when they're stopping
the run. Yeah. I haven'tgotten a whole lot of clicks on my
gap discipline story. You know.So if we get to October and you

(01:38:50):
and I are talking about run fits, I'm gonna go back to the draft
in the entire offseason and go couldhave fixed it? To fix it?
No, I've set it up abunch of times. I think it's the
one criticism of how free agency unfoldedwith them is that they didn't have one
more guy in there that feels solid, disserviceable right to kind of be in
that mix. And we'll see ifthey can find a way to get this

(01:39:12):
in the draft. But I mean, that's what's in front of them.
That's why it's important. That's whyday two is important. If they don't
get that on day one, isthey got pinpoint that and find it.
More of that conversation available on theiHeartRadio app, also the podcast page of
ESPN fifteen thirty dot com. Wedid it, Arran, we did it,
perfect show in the books. It'staken long enough. We'll see if

(01:39:35):
we can do it again tomorrow.Probably not. Kelsey Conway, Mike Renner
among our guests tomorrow. Have agreat night. Thanks to Tarren Bland for
producing. Thanks to you for listening. Have a great night. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station. This report is sponsored