Mo Egger with Joe Goodberry -- 4/29/24

Joe Goodberry's "Bengals On The Brain" show is a must-watch for Bengals fans. Joe joined us to discuss the Bengals' 2024 draft class on ESPN1530. 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We had on Joe Goodberry Bengals onthe brain thanks to the first started media

(00:05):
group on YouTube, and we hadthem on to preview the draft and I
said goodbye, and he goes,well, let's do it after the draft,
and okay, twist my arm.So Joe is here. Let's start
from a broad view thirty thousand feet. What is for this draft, in
particular for the Bengals, What isthe overarching theme for you? I think
the big thing is they took majorrisks, and every pick has some risks

(00:28):
to it, but what they didwas, hey, we're going to bank
on a lot of these guys andif they hit their upside, this could
be a fantastic class in three years. I mean, just from the top
of Arrius, men's not having allthe experience and starts that you would typically
want from a first round pick,but all the way down to third round
remain Burton, his character flags andsix schools and four years, things like

(00:49):
that, but the tape is undeniable. Drafting nose tackle in the third round
is typically a risky selection because thoseguys are a fifty to fifty lottery ticket
at best. And then Eric allall of his injuries you know, these
are good players, but if youare hoping that all of them pan out,
you're probably looking at coin flips thatdown the line at best. And
if that means a half of thempan out for you, hey, they

(01:11):
could be really good players. ButI think they took a lot of risk.
All right, So let's dive intosome of these And I watched your
show on a Marius Mims. Sofor me, and I said this on
Friday, you could tell me ifI'm an idiot. I think there's a
difference between a player who's a projectand a player who needs more experience,
some fine tuning, needs the roughedges smoothed out. I don't view him

(01:34):
as a project. I know there'sa relative lack of experience, but based
on how he did play when hewas on the field, I have a
hard time attaching that label to him. What do you think? I completely
agree with this. Projects to meare guys that either need to change something
significantly, need to be in adifferent scheme, need serious alterations to how
they play the game right, andthat those guys are the riskier of the

(01:56):
risky bunches. But Maria Sims justneeds snaps. He just needs time to
play. I think any mistake hemade was just him thinking too much of
like, you know, I'm notactually sure, am I supposed to get
to this guy? Do I climband help this guy? Do I get
to the linebacker here? Do Ipull out and go climb and get this
corner? So like, especially inthe run game, and you could tell
he just did not have the snapsto really be geled in with the rest

(02:17):
of his offensive linemen. So tome, the hardest part here is that
the Bengals have two good veteran startersat both tackle spots. Now, Trent
Brown may deal with some injuries andit hasn't been really available throughout his career.
So if that's how Mims gets onthe field, But man, I'd
give him every snap possible in trainingcamp and OTAs, and then in preseason

(02:38):
he should play a bunch. Infact, in preseason he should probably get
most of his experience that he's hadincluding college. He's had ninety nine true
pass sets total in college. Hemay get close to that in just three
preseason games. So Marrius Mims shouldget a lot of the experience he needs
before the season actually starts. Now, you and I talked extensively about defensive
tackles prior to the draft. Youmentioned they take two and two interior defensive

(03:01):
linemen in rounds two and three,the third round pick. They're a compensatory
pick. A lot of folks havelabeled McKinley Jackson a reach. Is that
your assessment? It's tough because Ifeel like they needed a nose tackle clearly,
and once to Andre Sweat went offthe board way earlier than expected,
even with character issues. You know, for the recent DWI, I was

(03:23):
like kind of put on notice,like, oh no, this could start
a run and get people nervous becausethere were only a couple maybe three total
that you wanted, and then therewas maybe five others in this class.
Say hey, i'll take us,spend a sixth seventh round lottery ticking out
in them and see if anything happens. And the Bengals clearly at that point
said we want McKinley Jackson and wewanted to develop him as our nose tackle.
The McKinley Jackson thing is tough becausewhen you watch him on tape,

(03:45):
actually had a higher tape grade frommyself than I did Chris Jenkins, because
I thought Jackson with his natural leverageat six foot one, got underneath guards
pretty consistently with good power first step. His flashes are very very good inconsistencies.
Even though he's a two time captain, he was just I think they
asked him to do a little bittoo much, and if he was a
true nose tackle for them, Ithought that was when he was at his

(04:10):
worst. To me, he's likean Andrew Billings type of nose tackle.
Those guys that are six to one. Sometimes, even though he's got the
long arms, struggle to find theballarrier and have vision in the backfield.
So as they're trying to stand uptwo guys and would stand a guard in
the center double teaming, they oftenlose the football and often lose where the
play is going because they don't havethe heights to see it. I think

(04:30):
that's where he struggles the most.I wouldn't be surprised if they just with
the McKinley Jackson pick have to reshufflehow they play defense a little bit,
maybe not have a true nose asmuch as they have and DJ Raider and
more go to more of a onegap style defense and I think would fit
him and Chris Jenkins very well.They do. They stand a chance to
be significantly better defensively this year,just when you look at the overall scope

(04:54):
of the offseason, because as wekind of turn our attention toward the meat
and potatoes of training camp, I'mstill I'm still not sure how good that
unit's going to be. Yeah,I agree with you. I think the
big upgrade is Geno Stone as theback half safety and getting von Bell back,
even though I expect Jordan Battle tostart there, getting a veteran in
that room should should help the communicationissues. Gino Stone is a good upgrade

(05:16):
at safety and I think that's wheretheir big issues stemmed from. But they
also I would say, I thinkwe talked about this throughout the year,
even when DJ Reader was in there. They were bad against the run,
right, So like, why dowe care so much if they lost d
J. Reader? Well, Ithought they were mostly bad against the run
because that third and fourth defensive tacklethat had to rotate in or was absolutely

(05:38):
terrible. Like Josh Tupau and ZachCarter couldn't do a thing last year to
help you out. Every time therewas a big run, I'd look at
the look on the field, likewho is there on the defensive line up
was Zach Carter. Again, ofcourse he's getting absolutely mauled on a double
team. Chris Jenkins is in theto media upgrade there, and I think
mckimley Jackson can at least be anupgrade to a Josh Tuppau even as a
rookie. But you do lose aDJ reader you replace with the Sheldon rankings,

(06:00):
so you should be better as apass rusher inside, and they needed
that and I didn't think they gotthat in this class. Power to knock
them for like one thing, andthey didn't get an interior offensive lineman.
And they need to get more passrush help on the inside other than in
the offseason getting Sheldon rankings. SoI think they can be different, and
sometimes different just helps you be better. But defensive rankings and output is very
volatile from season to season. Youcan go out there at the same eleven

(06:24):
players three years in a row andend up with three different results. Yeah,
well, said Joe Goodbarry Bengals onthe Brain with us. You mentioned
Jermaine Burton, and yet there arecharacter concerns and those have been addressed.
If I am just looking at thestatistical profile, what jumps out is twenty
and a half yards per reception thispast season in Alabama eighteen over the course
of his four year college football career. How does that translate to being able

(06:46):
to make a positive impact in theCincinnati offense this year. Yeah. So
a big thing I thought they neededto get back on this offense was a
slot receiver that provided inside out versatility. It's one of the big things with
Tyler Boyd that kind of hamstrung themjust a little bit as he had to
be in the slot. And youcan see a lot of number one wide
receivers in the NFL now play asignificant portion of their snaps from the slot,

(07:11):
and it was hard to get Chasein there when you had Tyler Boyd
on the field. So I wantedthem to get a guy that can play
outside and play inside. And theother part they needed to add to this
offense was a way to find explosiveplays once again. And Joe Burrow said
it, the coaches have said it. We've all said it, because you
know the twenty twenty one year ofdropping bombs on every team and then now
you're sitting here and you know thelast two years and you can't get anything
downfield. Well, Jermaine Burton isan answer to both of those things.

(07:33):
He has inside outside Bristilia. Hebelieve did it at Alabama. He's an
explosive speed slot receiver that has tremendousproduction downfield. Honestly, throw on a
highlight reel of Jermaine Burton on YouTube, grab a drink, sit back,
and have a good time because itis that fun to watch him play.
Great hands on a great and contestedsituations, great body controlled downfield and tracking

(07:58):
the ball downfield, especially on thesidelines. Everything about him is very,
very very good on the field.And he's going to a great situation that's
going to allow Chase to get intothe SLI. He's gonna be surrounded by
veteran receivers. He's gonna have TroyWalters as wide receiver coach Joe Burrow to
answer to and be held accountable forsome of some things and make sure he's
on the up and up. Butyeah, I think there's a great position

(08:20):
for him and it's a potentially anupgrade for the Bengals. And this is
what Tyler Boy is being a verygood pick for them and a very good
player for the Bengals. For along time. Getting different, getting faster,
getting more explosive, getting downfield helpwith versatility from inside outside could be
an upgrade. How does what theydid at tight end in this draft,
taking two, which I think surpriseda lot of people, how does that

(08:43):
reflect how they deploy the position thisyear? Yeah, that's interesting because I
thought they had three solid veterans thatthey brought back in the offseason Mike h
Spacky, Tanner Hudson, and AndrewSample on a three year deal. So
he's only got here past this thisseason, and Tanner Hudson didn't get a
lot out there, so maybe he'sstill fighting for roster spot. But given
that, I thought maybe one techat tight end. What happened when it

(09:05):
was Eric All a guy that ontape, you know, for what he
showed for the limited times he wasout there, I think he led to
Iowa and receiving yards and missed thenext seven games, the last seven games.
So, like they'll tell you,if you just watched a couple of
games he played, we'll see aguy that was completely their offense and their
passing offense, and he looks veryvery good. But after a back injury
that Michigan wouldn't clear him for andthen a knee injury this past year and

(09:28):
then he couldn't test. It putssome significant risk on him. And I
even saw Elbert Breer. I thinkafter the dress that he could end up
on the pup list or take ared shirt year this year because of the
injuries. Well that would make sense. Then and you end up with Tanner
McLaughlin as a Day three pick.Was a guy who's twenty five years old,
already as a rookie out of Canada, six years in college. But

(09:50):
on tape I thought Tannam McLachlin wasa lot of fun, a lot of
vertical speed, makes guys miss stretchesof the field, hard to tackle and
hard to bring down. Will jumpover guys, spin over guys. Good
time to watch too as well ifyou're looking for some off season fun highlights.
But one of those guys. Soif all ends up on the pup
list, Tantan McLaughlin's probably are fourth, maybe you go a little bit lighter

(10:11):
at running back. Do they actuallyneed to keep four running backs this year?
With Chris Avant being the last guy, and with how much Drew Sample
played h back and pass protection fromthe backfield. Maybe you go heavy at
tight and go a little bit lighterat running back. So you just answered
my last question, which is wereyou surprised or among those who were surprised

(10:31):
or slash disappointed that they didn't takea running back. I was very disappointed.
Yeah. I thought the you know, it wasn't a great class.
But once you ended up with guysin the fourth and fifth round that were
still there that I thought were verygood, I was really hoping they would
be able to scoop one of themup and maybe prodrict estimate, out of
or Dame would have been the pickand won a couple spots ahead of them
before they took Josh Newton. Butyeah, I was disappointed. I think

(10:54):
the running back room as a wholeis inexperienced. It doesn't have a long
track rep. Even Zach Moss,who's presuming to be the running back one,
it's really only had an eight gamestretch in his career where he was
good, and he was really goodin that eight games last year, but
with Buffalo, you know, hewas he struggled again on the field.
He's added weight, dropped weight.I'm not sure if he's the big back

(11:16):
they need as a two fifteen.Well, Chase Brown is two ten.
The first time they haven't had atwo hundred and twenty five plus pound back
to handle the load in a longtime. And I don't think they want
that. They don't want to belkout back. They want to have a
rotation and a committee. But oncethey get to number three, trade on
Williams and Chris Evans. I'm notsure those guys make a roster on any
of the team around the league.Other teams seeing the value that the depth

(11:37):
at running back a little bit moreso. Yeah, I was shocked.
And now I'm looking at it like, man, you know, I'm gonna
be looking at cutdown day. Ithink when we get there in late August
is a maybe that position with Bengalscaudad of talent. You're doing a roster
guide this summer, Yeah, Ihope. So yeah, first started to
put up that book, right,but you know, we're going to talk

(11:58):
about Matt Lee though their last Iwould love to know. Let's go center
from Miami mattlee is he? Is? He? Like? Because I read
someone said, well, they didn'taddress the interior of the offensive line.
There's no long term solution there.Do you think Matt Lee is. I
absolutely love Mattley. I think heis a better interier offensive line prospect that
like Jackson Carmen graded lower for USDeanntony Smith, Wow, Trey Hill,

(12:20):
And they haven't drafted a guy thisgood and pass protection in a long long
time. When you watch him,and I didn't even focus on him originally,
I was watching Braden Fisk and rukeArororo and other defensive tackles and kept
going, who is this center fromMiami. He's absolutely kicking their butts?
And then people were like, oh, yeah, he hasn't given up a
sack in his career Miami, AndI'm like, Okay, let me go

(12:41):
back and watch him. Fantastic.He honestly has a chance to be a
starting center down the line. Hetested well, he's athletic, he's got
a lot of experience. I'm reallyhopeful. Just don't cut him Bengals as
a rookie. You know they tendto do that sometimes at these late round
picks. Right, give him ayear or two and let's see what he
does. All right. See,now you've get giving me something to pay
attention to be on the usual oncecampkids here. You're always so generous with

(13:05):
your time. I love your work. I know you've been swamped man,
so I do appreciate it. Thankyou as always. Thank you, Mom,
you got it. Joe Goodberry Bengalson the Brain with Joe Goodberry available
on YouTube thanks to First Star MediaGroup. It is a twenty five away
from four o'clock. Your phone callsare coming up. We're going to go
to Athens, Georgia and talk abouttwo Bengals draft choices in thirty minutes.

(13:26):
Lots of ground to cover between nowand six. I'm moegar. This is
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