9/10/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

Bengals with Paul Dehner Jr and Andrew Whitworth. Hear from Scott Satterfield and the message he is telling fans after Saturday's loss to Pitt. Plus we have to give the Reds credit for something.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Bengals battle the Chiefs. Coverage begins Sunday at noon
on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Here we go, what's up? It's four after three ESPN
fifteen thirty on molegor. Thank you for joining us, Thank you.
We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in west Chester, Sholsey Drive.
Very easy to get to right off I seventy five.
We're here at a different beat ubs every Tuesday. I
just I just shot a video with it. I haven't
posted yet because well, because our friends at bud Light

(00:34):
have given us this awesome Bengals cooler, which I use
the word awesome and I don't use that liberally, so
to speak. It is really cool and you can win
it if you're here, but you got to get here.
Beat ups in west Chester. We ended up having last
week for our first stop in Blue Ash, an awesome crowd.
We had Bengals tickets to give away last week, which

(00:54):
means somebody got to go watch that game on Sunday
on bud Light's dime. We've got a really cool so
to speak, and some other bud Light prizes to give away.
We've got buy one, get one half of traditional Wings.
We're here, Toll six bud Light Specials. Come on out
and join us. We're here with our buddy, Paul Danner
Junior Fromthathletic dot Com. The Growler Podcast latest episode Balds

(01:16):
Don't Line dropped earlier today. What's going on? Not much.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
It's good to be back out here.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
And you know what's funny this this west Chester area
right here. The last, I believe, the last time the
Bengals were playing Kansas City, I landed and went directly
and slept at this Marriotte across the street.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Really, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
It was all a very weird scenario. No, it was.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
We were driving back. We were I was driving back
from Pittsburgh or something like that. But it was a
late night game and I stayed there because I was
doing something the next day right up in this area.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
And I was like, you know what, and I even
go home, I'm just to stay.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
This Marriotte right here. It was lovely stay. They had
nice soft beds. It's a great place to be. It
wasn't Kansas.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
City's everything Okay at home, it was. It was great.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
It was just easier. Just trust me, trust that it
was easier.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
But it's I've stayed in some Cincinnati area hotels in
my life, and it's it's it's not because life is
going well on them, so like what's going well? Life
was going well.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
I believe we actually had a family function up here
the next day. Made more sense for me to make
sure I got my sleep rather than go home.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
You know it is you wake up and they get
you up early.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yes, it's easier to make sure you got your sleep
and meet you out at I understand that.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
But anyway, anyway, this is my old stomping ground.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It is.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'm a Northern Burbs guy.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Originally you are, Yeah, just stop, I key on the
way here, thought about it, thought about it, was going
to get pick up a speed at Swedish Meatball and
then move on.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
But you know, I why would I do that when
I was coming here?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
And I could have some of the wings.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's right, very good, all right, we have a lot
of ground to come.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Jeez, believe were here, you know, like not here here
like in this place for the fan base and everyone
mentally already you.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Know, I just I go back to a week ago.
We were so excited that there's gonna be a game
to talk about actual football like a scoreboard and a
result and the ins and outs in the particulars and
the strategies and the players who excelled and the guys
who maybe left a little bit to be desired. I
guess we do have that. And and but there was excitement.
And you know what, there's no way they lose, no
matter what. We'll be sifting through the through a win.

(03:25):
And yet boy, here we are you talk about the
air coming out of the balloon. This is this is
that we.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Would talk about it in this like, you know, almost
impossible tone.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Of I I mean, imagine if they lost, how terrible
that would be?

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Right, Like, well, you know, he's sure it'll be like
well needed mc pherson to kick a field goal at
the end to eke out one, and they the offense struggled,
And that felt like the worst case scenario when you
just looked at everything working against New England, all the
continuity the Bengals had Burrow with a full camp, I mean,
a home everyone's an orange. What could possibly like, there's

(04:03):
just no way that a team with an offensive line
running into each other, a quarterback situation where they're like,
well this one guy's better, and he the rest of
the rosters so bad. We're not gonna play him because
we're worried about that, right, No discernible receivers to talk
of are going to come in on the road in

(04:24):
an opener and actually be able to beat you. But
they executed the game plan that they had in front
of him and.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Often went I just.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
There's so many different areas where you say, oh, that
was the worst case scenario with the Bengals that you know,
there's three different paths of things that you worried about
in all of them.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Deserve You're lucky, you haven't plenty of time.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
Deserve full hours to dive into right now because everything
that really could have gone wrong, and that's how you
end up losing a game that you just couldn't lose,
you had no business losing, and you do, you just
you just crush the spirits of everybody that was so
excited to be to be back and to take this

(05:15):
all in your on its first ride immediately, and it's
just it's it's crushing.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Up until the moment where Zach Taylor chose to punt
on fourth and five in the fourth quarter, I was
I had it written man I had it planned out
of my head. Win is a win, survive in advance style.
Points don't matter. It's preseason for everybody. Hey, look at
the Ravens lost, Like I had it ready to go,
Like you'll all, it's just about get the dub and

(05:41):
move on, right, get yeah, just don't you can't give
it back, just move on and then uh, well the
game unfolded the way it did toward the end, they
punt it, which we can talk about, we did talk
about in your podcast New England and sure as they
never touched the football again. And like I think, there's
we all have done it a tendency that we all

(06:03):
have to lump the three opening week losses in with
each other. This is different. This feels because of the
quality of the opponent, because of maybe the noise surrounding
the team toward the end of the week, questions about
Joe that I think are a little more difficult to
answer than perhaps a year ago and two years ago.
Like this feels. Maybe it's the exasperation with the previous two.

(06:26):
This feels not like it's going to totally sidetrack the season.
Not that they can't recover, because they can and I
do believe they will. But this, to me at least,
feels different.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think it feels different because what you're talking about
with Joe Burrow feels different because you don't the same way.
This injury feels different. It feels different than the appendix. Certainly,
it feels different than the calf. These were known quantities
and it's the same thing we've talked about throughout the

(06:58):
course of this offseason, and that's why any nervousness about
this return was gonna elicit different emotions and deeper fear
because this is not temporary.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
We just have not dealt with this. And that's the
same way.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
And you go back to a guy who referenced his
own football mortality in the other like this is this
is fans coming to grip with that conversation when you
see what it.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Can look like, we we just don't know.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
You have to see I've kind of said this in
the beginning, when when at every point everyone wanted to
be like, oh yeah, it's all good, right, it was
always gonna be okay a process.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Can you get what's he looked like in camp?

Speaker 4 (07:44):
What's he looked like in that second third week in
camp when he's trying to play against the Bears and
the Colts and footballs and and he was checking all
those boxes, but there was still gonna be a be
boxes of taking hits, dealing with mentally taking hits and
then throwing the football, which was part of what caused
last year, and the volume in usage that's gonna come

(08:04):
over the course of a season, and when the competitiveness
kicks up a notch and he has to lean into
who he's always been and where is that at. This
could just be you need more volume to judge it. Yeah, no,
I it's hard not to because you said this a
bunch and it's true, like you have to go there,

(08:24):
like you can't watch that and say, I'm not gonna
think about the fact that this guy had this risk thing.
It does require volume to better judge it. We do
need to see it in different scenarios and him go
out there and play differently.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
But yeah, it looks and feels.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Different than the last few years because the uncertainty around
this issue looks and feels different. You can take this
team having the world's worst run defense and being unable
to cover and even have bad offensive line play.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
As long as burn looks.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Good, right, you can always put the pieces together.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
And it's it when when Burrow isn't good, you have
cracks in the foundation, your basement.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Is boeing, you know, and you're like, we've knocked.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
The house down.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Is the house going to be okay?

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Because we just paid a lot for this house?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Right?

Speaker 4 (09:17):
That in that delicits different emotions and it makes it
feel different.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
What's the the appropriate response to that game? Because you know, fans,
we get emotional about it. The emotion lends to extreme reactions.
As somebody who certainly understands what it's like to be
a fan, but steps away from the emotion a little bit.

(09:41):
What's what's the appropriate level of concern anger, what's the
appropriate level of patience? How should we react to that?

Speaker 3 (09:51):
You should you should react with a red flag in hand?

Speaker 4 (09:55):
I mean I think that you're that's the first game
always teaches so much about how much was just bluster
and good pr and how much was was real people
being real. And obviously there was a lot of good
bluster and pr about what was going on with this
team and where they were at, and that's that was

(10:17):
the reality.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
I mean, you can't look at it any differently.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
That that's concerning, right, there's also the logic side to
me of they've looked worse than that, and they've done
this over and over again.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Maybe this is just part of who they are.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
I mean that that has legs, that's not that's not nothing.
I mean they do this every year, it seems like
for different reasons. And they did have a lot going on,
many of their own doing in terms of finding that
sort of rhythm.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
There's a lot of teams that laid eggs.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
In week one, and so that stuff can happen across
the board and it can be forgotten quickly in a
in a week, in three weeks, in a month, in
two months, like we've we've it's a long season. But
that was a very concerning starting point because they were
supposed to be, like I said, to open this well

(11:14):
above that level. The worst case scenario there being you
got to eke out a win at the end. You
should never get to the point where you have that
and then for your quarterback to be the reason why
you lose. Yeah, and all the things that go with
that with him from a health perspective, that's real. Like,
I don't I don't think that that's false or made

(11:35):
up or there's logic to say, no, don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
You should worry about it.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
I don't think that there's reason to go all the
way to the dark place, uh yet, because that you know,
that's gonna take time to see how he adjusts. He's
adjusting to this thing too. But yeah, it's I think
that's it. It's it's you're very The concern should be high,
and you should be you should probably be kind of

(12:01):
nervous to see what the next two.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Weeks look like.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Because that's the word. Yeah, nervous. Yeah, that's the word.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
What if it's what if this is it? What if this?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
What if that?

Speaker 3 (12:11):
What if that is is who it is right now?

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Maybe what if that's been the case and they and
he can't really find ways to get past it and
work it out. Yeah, you're nervous at that because that's
a timeline. That's a that's a timeline that was put
into play.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
On Sunday, I was I was asked by somebody this
morning to describe my feeling, and I said, apprehension. I
think nervous is probably better. I think that clock's it better.
It's nervous. It's not fatalistic. Where well, ercos are going
to go seven and ten. But but I'm I feel
a lot of unease because what what that was? That

(12:44):
wasn't them just losing a football game? That was that
was the guy who's supposed to elevate everybody sinking themselves.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
Sinking them Yeah, yeah, no I And and it's just
the one. It's there were so many any moments, and
as I went through and like my first thing I
wanted to do in my rewatch was just every every
Borough pass, but every Borrow third down pass, because they.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
All felt like white flags.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, Like, that's.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Just not who he is as a player.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
He is, He's mister.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
I don't think a third downsack even counts as a
sack because I'm willing to sit in there and take
it to make a play and to sit in there
and be like eh and check down and short of
the sticks and check down and check down. And then
the last one, you know, the coupde gras, where you're
just like, wow, that's unbelievable that that that's are you

(13:38):
seeing ghosts? Was it the hits you took early in
the game, speeding up your clock, and you felt like
you were worried about that, even though that never really
ended up kind of being an issue very much the
rest of the game. That something was very disconnected in
that moment for that guy, the personality that we know
to be making those types of decision on third down,

(14:03):
and specifically that last one where he looked like a
broken version of himself. Yeah, that to me is is
the wildest part of it. That's where you saw the
biggest difference.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Paul has written a couple of very good pieces in
the aftermath What Happened on Sunday. Go get him at
the Athletic dot com and why Times dot com. Obviously
the Athletic has an app, and the postgame walkout podcast,
the Growler Podcast Today Balds Don't Lie with Me and Dave.
A lot of content a game. A game provided a
lot of content. There was a lot of content provided.

(14:37):
There's no doubt there was a lot of.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Different places to go to that weren't all pretty.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah. I don't want to have to go back to
last Friday, but I think we have to. We have
to what a day, So we'll do that when we
come back. A lot to touch on with Paul. He's
here till four, we are here till six. Buffalo Wild
Wings in Westchester's Scholsey Drive. Like two minutes off I
seventy five awesome giveaways thanks to bud Light nineteen after
three o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station twenty

(15:05):
five after three. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger at
Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester. Our friends at bud Light
have some awesome giveaways, including the world's Greatest cooler. Come
check it out five dollars bud Lights on game days
and and buy one get one half of Traditional Wings

(15:25):
all day on Tuesday here at b Dubs, and like,
this is my favorite two all time Cincinnati professional athletes.
Professional athletes are Barry Larkin and Boomerasiason, and right across
from where I'm sitting, they have jerseys of both. It
says if they knew I was coming, It's is if

(15:48):
they knew I was going to be here those.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
Is There is there a Charles Oakley, there is around
the corner.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
I don't see Charles Oakley, don't I don't see a
Kenyan Martin. I don't see a Nick van Xwell, but
I bet you.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
If you start here you could find a Kenyon Martin.
There's a Sean ka Patrick.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
There's an Ohio Stay jersey that I think we could
swap that out and and put. But there is a
Sean Kilpatrick, Lakota West. Is that jab Refsnyder?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Who is whose jersey is that Lakota West?

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I don't know who that is.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I don't know. We'll send the Cracker staff. But there's
a Barry Lark and there's a Boomera size and then
and I hope those are well attached to the wall.
That's all gonna say.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
That's all I do. Did you like those? You know
these they have the it's the neon. Oh god, no,
the neon. No God, see jerseys k that they they
went to the Big East. That was the year they
went to the Big East title game against Louisville.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
So they were those in twenty twelve. There was a
four year stretch where they decided in March to where
let the most hideous things out, including in fifteen, the
year where Larry Davis was the interim coach. Yeah, sleeves,
Oh yes, Sean Troy Copaine makes the game tying bucket
at the end of regulation wearing sleeves. Sleeves were doing
those are hideous. Yes, big a Bearcat fan as you'll

(16:58):
ever meet. Those are all.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
It's the unfortunate part because some of the highlights from
that particular run are fantasy.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Chastics, great awful cashmire right against Georgetown at the quarterfinal.
They they thump Syracuse in the semi final, they play
in the Big they make the Sweet sixteen most recent
Sweet sixteen appearance, and they're wearing what looked like bad
child's pajamas.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Ye, and now you get to relive that.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, but they do have Barry And then it makes
me happy. I feel like we've kind of glossed over
the t Higgins injury. And when I say we, not
you and I I feel like, Okay, he's not going
to play on Sunday, period, And that's not what I'm
worried about. Is he not going to play this Sunday?
Is he not going to play in the coming weeks? Like?

(17:44):
What is the short term impact of this? And then
for him, a guy who's hurt a lot at least
that's his rep what is this going to mean moving forward?
And then you have the people who are arriving at
the conclusion that he's not hurt eye like you I'm
not willing to do that.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
I don't really have a whole lot of patience for that,
only because of this. If you're T Higgins, and he
has done everything right in terms of showing up, playing,
trying to get his body into the best condition as possible,
caring about being out there, knowing how important playing seventeen

(18:23):
games is, in specifically.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Knowing how important not being cast.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
As the guy with the hamstrings all the time. I mean,
this is his six hamstring situation in five years plus
one at Clemson. It's dogged his entire career. He's doing
everything to try to avoid that. The idea that he'd
be like, hey, everybody, I got a hamstring because of
some contract leverage thing in cahoots was I mean, come
on that this was this, more than anything that could

(18:51):
have happened, is the worst thing that could have happened
to T. Higgins because he is trying to avoid this,
desperate he doesn't want to be in some situation where
he has to make the decision about how does my
hamstring feel versus being wary of it, reaggravating it or whatever,
and soft tissue stuff like this. I mean, there's just no,

(19:14):
there's no way to truly know. I mean, it's it's
the heart. It's the same way as the calf stuff.
You think you're back, you think you feel great, and
you get out there and you hit a gear one
time and pop, it's it's just it reaggravates, and it's
it's it's so it's frustrating for that reason. It it
returns throughout seasons. For this reason, it's why the NFL

(19:35):
is doing everything they can to work lower extremity injuries
out of the equation because the vast majority of them
happened in two different times. They happen right at the
beginning of camp and right at the beginning of the
regular season, when guys go to the next level before
they're properly ready, and then if they don't happen, then
though they they typically don't really happen, they're at a

(19:55):
much lower rate. That's so frustrating for Tea Higgins because
now he knows he's gonna have a year that's going
to be in the back of his mind and it's
so much a part of what you wanted to get
rid of. So you hate to see that. When will
he come back, I don't know. But this is the
situation that we talked about with him and really will
it will be and if something like this would have
happened with Jamarshes too, where you're just you're not gonna

(20:15):
push yourself that one extra it's always you rightfully have
the right to say I need, I want one more week,
and you deserve that.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
If that's just the situation.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
And so I feel like I don't know, We'll we'll
know a little bit more Wednesday, because it was so
fresh on Friday. He wasn't out on the rehab field
at all. You're saying, okay, is that very bad? Or
is that just him being distraught over the fact that
he woke up and it was killing him?

Speaker 3 (20:47):
So where's he at? Is he already on the rehab field?

Speaker 4 (20:50):
There's there was some door left open, I think by
Zach Taylor yesterday. But I don't think anybody really knows
what this stuff until you get to.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Later in the week. It's just unfortunate.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
You feel for Tea, yeah, because he has tried to
do it all the right way despite the team devaluing
him and just wanted to go out there and have
a full healthy season and play great and to be
so close to it, feeling like he's as as good
as shape and best prepared for a season as he
was in entire life.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
And that happened right before as brutal.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, I mean I listened to people on Thursday and
much more so on Friday jump to the conclusion that
this isn't real. And my take was, if you've watched
T Higgins, you know he deserves better than that. Yeah.
Number one, what incentive does he have to not play? Right?

(21:41):
What incentive is there for him to not play? Number two?
As you've referenced watching that dude drag himself back onto
the field against Kansas City last year week seventeen. That's
not a guy who's gonna fake an injury on the
friday before the game. The guy who signed his franchise
in June, the guy who played in the preseason opener,

(22:02):
the guy who's gone through all these training camp practices,
the guy who has been dogged by the same injury.
In terms of just the discourse around it, I felt
like te deserved and deserves so much better. Yeah, And
I feel for him. I feel for the team because
obviously they could have used you know, all go T
Higgins on Sunday. But I feel like that conjecture. I

(22:26):
understand why people do it, but to really advance it
is really unfair to him.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, I don't he did.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
He deserves better than that, for sure, And it would
have been different if he would have been doing things
similar to what Jamar was doing right where he wasn't
participating and he.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Was and all that just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
And through it out his entire career he's been he's
been trying to trying to do the right thing. I
feel like he's eventually he will come back and he'll
play and he'll play great, and he'll be in having
everybody thinking of him differently with the bottom line is
like this was the evaluation when when the Bengals were

(23:08):
looking at Tea's big picture, it's that you love.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Him when he's on the field.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
You just have consistently seen the nagging thing at some
point of every season. And to his credit, though he's
played through stuff. He's played in the postseason. He's played
great in the postseason. So he's been there when you
felt like you really needed him. But availability, if you're
weighing one versus the other, if you're weighing some really

(23:33):
hard decisions. Yeah, sends you in the direction of saying
locking up long term is something you shy away from.
I really do one hundred percent believe that is the
reason that he does not have a long term deal
is just because of his nagging injury history. I think
that that is a hard thing to go all in on,

(23:54):
more so than some of the other issues that maybe
you can get.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
I don't remember which publication it was, but it was.
I think it was ESPN and spent the summer ranking
the top ten at every position, and Tea was very
much on the outside looking in. Number one, there's a
ton of great wide receivers in the sport, including one
on his own team. Number two. It came with the
attachment of like, let's see if he can play seventeen
games and play great those seventeen games this year, and

(24:19):
so it's there. I sense league wide, this doesn't help.
I still think.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
He'll get paid, Like I don't think sure. I don't
think it will hurt him from making plenty of money.
And I mean someone's gonna pay him, and someone's gonna
be willing to give say, give me eight hundred and
five snaps or T Higgins. Yeah, my team will be
just fine, like you know, but that's when you're when
you have another option like the Bengals do and other

(24:48):
things they're considering. I really do believe that that was
really it, that that's even more reason why you feel
for Tea. But people, again, if he plays fourteen games,
you know, no will even really think much about that.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
I do have to ask about three players who played
on Sunday, plus Jamar Chase who played on Sunday and
a guy who didn't. We have a lot to get
to between now and four. That is a lot to
get Yeah, we're Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester, twenty five
away from four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Since away from four o'clock, Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester

(25:23):
and Sholsey Drive, buy one, get one half of traditional
Wings and the bud Light Cooler and so much more.
We are here till six o'clock. Paul Danner Juniors here
for another twenty minutes or so. Do you want to
do Jamar Chase? Now we're talking about a few other things.
We have like ten minutes, a few other things and
then give me some space for jamorrow. Let's start what

(25:45):
do we make of Joe Mixon's big day with the
Houston Texans tody carries?

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, I mean, look, you give him thirty carries in
an offense that suits him.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
There's a reason Houston traded for him.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
They think his style fits what they wanted to do,
and it is some old, little bit more old school.
It's kind of what Zach Taylor on the offense was
doing in the run game before they changed everything a
couple of years ago and went to the shotgun downhill
stuff that they do now, if you like, doesn't fit
mix as well. And you saw why. Joe's pretty happy
to be there. He of course took a requisite shot

(26:17):
or two.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
You knew that was coming.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
You knew that was coming, and and good good for him, man.
I mean, like the one one thing someone in the
building told me after that trade was that he's gonna
do really well. They really felt like there was a
clear reason that Houston traded for him because he is
he is an ideal fit for their scheme. He just
wasn't an ideal fit for what the Bengals were trying

(26:39):
to do in the running game anymore.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Fair enough, why were they so bad at tackling thirteen
miss tackles tackling Jack about a guy every time they
caught the ball, They sure did.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
I don't know if that goes back to the physicality
of camp.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
I mean, there's really very there's no starters.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
Liveckling in all of camp, and they played one series
in the preseason, so they have not tackled. They haven't
had to tackle at all. Is that an argument for
them playing in the preseason more?

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Probably? Right?

Speaker 4 (27:14):
I mean, obviously, especially for especially from a defensive side
of the ball, if it's going to be this bad,
you know, the same way it was early last year.
It was the tackling was so bad, you either need
to be doing it live in camp in some capacity,
or you need to be playing the starters.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
And this is just speaking from a defensive side of
the ball.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
More in the preseason to get them more used to tackling,
because this is you know, let's let's hope for their
sake that it's not who they just are, because a
lot of it was them actually being in the right
spots and not looking. It was just one tackle happens
and off they go. Yeah, so I don't, you know,

(27:57):
hard to know for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
We've talked a lot about Joe Burns trust. He's got
to have trust in his guys. Did that evaporated for
Tanner Hudson.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
I don't think so. I mean, I think you can
trust the Tanner hud Well.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
I think you would think that Tanner Hudson isn't gonna
have a silly mistake like that one.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Again.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
I mean, that was unfathomable crets. I mean the idea
that he's just gonna lift his arm up and celebrate
at the two yard line and crowd. I don't I
don't really know that said, I don't you know the
trust of him. He's still in the right place, he
still catches the ball, he's still quarterback friendly, all of
that stuff that matters there. Hold on the ball man like

(28:35):
that's It'd be different if it was an interception because
he ran the wrong way or turned.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
The this is it was such a silly air. I
think that. I don't think you lose trust because of it.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Should uh should the Bengals give Ryan Rico a long
term contract extension for the next eight to ten years.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I think you tell Corey and Tim Crumrae, look, we
need you guys to hold off. We're just gonna go
he go into the ring. You tell Brad Robins, buddy, buddy,
don't worry about You're not gonna like what I would. Actually,
it would have been nice to have been sitting on
the bench next to Brad Robbins when Rico's punt goes

(29:13):
up into the air and maybe he wasn't even watching,
he just saw the ball go up and then just.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Sail all the way down to the other side.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Every time, I.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Would have gone and cleaned out my locker as the
rest of the game unfolded. I'm gonna stick around for this.
You know, we saw this.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
So it's so funny because we were talking about that,
and I remember the day that he showed up and
was doing some of that in camp and people like,
why are you guys tweeting about this new punter guy?

Speaker 3 (29:37):
And I was like, seriously, you should see what when
he was doing that.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
And then though we spent the next couple of weeks
watching him shank half of it, picks kicks, so it
seems like that's kind of the thing for some weeks.
When he hits it, it's unbelievable. It's like and nothing
you've ever seen. But the consistency has been the problem.
So we'll see if the consistency continues. But yeah, it's
wasn't a great day to be Brad Robbins, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
What's gonna happen with JAMR Chase?

Speaker 4 (30:04):
He's gonna play. I think he'll I think on Sundays
he should play.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Just fine. He's not happy and I get it?

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Can I I fine? So they work right up until
Sunday to get the deal done by all accounts, right,
but then they don't want to once the season starts. Right,
what's the difference between getting it done on Sunday morning
and today.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
I think they feel like there has to be deadlines
for a reason, and they're just not going to draw
it out to once get the focus. If they're as
close as they got, as close as they were gonna get.
I think there's the reason deadlines exist. But there's also exceptions.
I don't think that they view it as an exception.
I think they view it as they tried neither team

(30:51):
neither is budging, and so punt next year.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
This ended up being in.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
Retrospect, just like Justin Jefferson's was, but with contentiousness, but
with a show. Because this isn't Justin got close, but
they couldn't get it done, and then and both sides
ended up punting to the next offseason, and then then
got it done when he had two years left.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
It wasn't as.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Public there last year, but it did happen in very
similar ways.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
What happened here is public.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
And Jamar not being thrilled with it, and it comes
in the same summer that Tea's not thrilled with.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
It, and it ends up being, you know, kind of.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
A nasty feel around it, and it feels and this.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Is this is what I said. I talked a while
for this on the walkout on Sunday. In the way
this all went down was this was the somehow they
managed to turn this a negotiation between two sides into
a lose lose. Somehow they manage not neither side one here, Yeah, okay,

(32:03):
you both lost. If you really got pretty close, as
Jamar said, if you really did have an offer that was,
in his view his words, a bend over backwards offer
on the table.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
They did that for you, and you said, you know what, I.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
Don't want to do that because I want to have
more and you're willing to take on all the risk
that comes with playing in an NFL season where things change
for you. Ask Joe Burrow about that. You know, things
change for you. Ask Nick Chubb about that when he
deals with his injury. Ask anybody that's running into anything,
whether it's foreseen or unforeseen, or good or bad or
whatever off the field like stuff, life happens, man, things change.

(32:40):
And when you have a deal that is a bend
over backwards deal on the table for you and you
don't find a way to get that done, that's a
big risk. I don't think that's a risk worth taking.
I'm not in Jamar Chase's shoes. I've never had that before.
And on the other side, if you're the Bengals, you

(33:01):
have to get this done, if you're that close, whatever
it is.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
But the value that.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
You think you're getting by playing this version of hardball
is not worth it for a team of stars that
you have now devalued all of them. You've told almost
every one of your best players, we don't think you're
as good as you think you are. And that has
been the case with some that have left, whether we're
talking about Jesse Bates and DJ Reeder or some that

(33:29):
are here in T Higgins and Jamar Chase, and Trey
Hendrickson and even Joe Burrow who had to go all
the way down to the wire to get his deal
where he wanted it to be. And maybe that's part
of how they negotiate. And it is business and it's
the NFL, and that's fine. Heck, even Evan McPherson took
the lowball offer.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
So it's just that stuff.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
They're dance man, And each one you can rationalize, and
I can see reason behind it and understand all all
of it. But when you add them up, all those
dents equal one big wreck.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think in the way.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
That everybody in the building is sitting there and say, well,
if I do everything right and I become a great
player here, I was drafted here, they leaved in me,
and I followed everything they wanted me to do and
became everything they could have ever wanted me to be.
They're gonna play hard ball with me and try to
and and it's gonna be a problem, and I'm not
gonna be able to get what I feel like I
deserve it, what I can get anywhere else. And I

(34:27):
gotta watch all the other teams get deals done with
all these players, every other receiver that wanted the deal,
got one except for t Higgins and Jamar Chase, all
these players the last weekend, I mean goodness, it was
like an onslought of people finishing off deals. Dax Prescott
gets sixty million dollars. I mean, you name it across
the league. I'm Friarmuth, you name whoever you want.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
And the Ayuk thing took somebody weird twists and turns
and then but they still got it done.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
They still they still ended up getting it done. They
came to the middle and and and that's that stuff
just adds up. So from a Bengals perspective, just get it.
Just find a way to get it to the end,
you know, get it. Don't let this go on throughout
your whole season here and then have to go through
it again next offseason. Deal with all of it again.
It's just so because it's easier to rationalize the other

(35:13):
ones if you can say, well, it ended up going
to Jamar and.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Joe and everybody gets that, right, I get it. They're
the team, that's and that's that's the thing about it.
Like you said to me back in July, if if
if this doesn't results on I'm paraphrasing here. But if
this doesn't result in something happening, whether it's Jamar really
forces their hand, misses games and they cave, or they
just figure out a way to get it done moments

(35:38):
before the season opener, then what was the point and
and and so at what cost in terms of what
it tells the other players, what it may have done
for their preparation for the season opener, Jamar's headspace, Tea's headspace,
Joe's headspace, like all of them, Zach Taylor, like the

(35:59):
the potential lateral damage for a deal that was close
to getting done not getting done. It's not worth it.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
It's not worth it. It's there's just no way it's
worth it. The money's there.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
They've made enough smart decisions, they're set themselves up nicely
enough with everything else they've done to be able to
do it that it may stretch some of their values
and value for the player and some of the precedent.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
And em little cut.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
It's just they have broken Joe and Jamar have broken
the precedent here and that should have been reflected and
the unwillingness to go there. There is big time ramifications
for that stuff. If you get that close. It's one
thing to be like, we're so far apart, man, let's
just do it again next year. But if you're telling
me that it was that close and you couldn't get

(36:44):
it to the finish line and now you're going to
go through all this after everything that just happened and
everything you got to go through next with this season,
that to me doesn't make any sense so that both
sides couldn't find it again.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I know I'm late, but then blow up your deadline
this one time, Like what what is the harm in
looking at today?

Speaker 3 (37:04):
They're off because they're not getting there.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But if you're close, this isn't like the Bengals and
Jesse Bates where you could see it coming how it
was gonna end, or t Higgins you could see it
coming a year and a half ago how it was
gonna end. Like, all right, the season's underway. You mean
to tell me we can negotiate the morning of the
game and it's it's that's okay, But you can't negotiate
it an off after the first game of the season
if you're if you're indeed close, you could I mean,

(37:29):
if you can't do that, then to me, I just don't.
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
I mean both sides. We were obviously willing.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
To kick it to next offseason and say, all right,
that's where it ends and and move Let's make a
decision and move forward. At some point there has to
be a deadline rather than continuing to come back to it.
I just it feels like that's been the thing where
this was it. This was our absolute last chance that
we're moving on.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
All right, Well we have to move on.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
What a great place.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
This is just fantastic. Is not how I wanted to
do it?

Speaker 5 (38:02):
Is not it?

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Maybe next week?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Maybe next week, next week the go to Kansas City
when and everybody will be back on board. No, yeah,
absolutely happen.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
It'd be something sure.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Paul Danner Junior. Read him at The Athletic dot com,
ny Times dot com. Follow him on x at Paul
Danner Junior. Catch the podcast The Growler. Today's episode Balds
Don't Lie, Dave Nimitz and myself along with Paul and
Uh we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Thanks mom, thank you.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
It's five away from four o'clock. We're at Buffalo Wild
Wings in Westchester. Here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati sports station.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
The Chiefs coverage begins Sunday at noon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
All right, there you go. It's uh five at for four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm owager, thank you so
much for joining us. We are because it's a Tuesday.
We're out and abound the Buffalo Wild Wings our favorite
place here every Tuesday at a Buffalo Wild Wings every Tuesday.
We're in Westchester this afternoon. Sholzy drive. Very easy to

(39:04):
get to. Right off I seventy five, get off at
the Union Center Boulevard exit. You'll be here like in
two minutes and so extraordinarily easy to get to. We've
got buy one, get one half of Traditional Wings on Tuesdays.
A great place if you want to watch the Reds
game tonight, if you want to watch NFL games this weekend.

(39:27):
It's an awesome place. College football. There's nothing else going
on tonight. I think Red's Cardinals is pretty much it.
So you've got that this evening. We also have our
friends at bud Light. Remember here, five dollars bud Light
talls every NFL game day. You cannot beat that. And
your friends at bud Light have also. I just took
a picture during the break of the cooler, the Bengals

(39:47):
cooler that we're giving away. Now, you and I both
know there's a difference in a poor quality cooler and
a high quality cooler. Poor quality cooler, you might as
well leave your stuff sitting out. This is a quality cooler.
It's beautiful. If you're a Bengals fan, comes to us.
Thanks to our friends at bud Light. We've got some
other bud like gear to give away as well, So

(40:08):
come on out. We have a couple of Bengal cheerleaders
here with us. You cannot beat that. That's awesome helping
us turn the page from Sunday the loss of the Patriots.
So get out here between now and six o'clock and
spend your Tuesday afternoon with us. A little bit later on,
Andrew Whitworth is gonna call in. Scott Saderfield spoke a

(40:29):
while ago, the head coach of the Bearcats. You'll hear
that coming up in just about fifteen minutes. The loss
on Saturday. You know, it's interesting the Bengals game and
the Bearcat games. If you root for both as I do,
might have given you a similar feeling. The Bengals win

(40:50):
on Sunday, I feel like everyone's gonna move on. Bengal's
going to Kansas City and win game on. All right,
they overcame what happened against the Patriots. They beat the
Chiefs one in one, better than they were through two
games last year, better than they were through two games
two years ago. It's a coach who has won, it's
a quarterback who has won game on. I don't know

(41:13):
that such a dynamic applies with the Bearcats now. Nothing
against the Miami University football program, which Chuck Martin has
done a great job with and which beat the Bearcats
at Knippert Stadium last season. I don't know that beating
Miami will have the cleansing, will provide the cleansing for

(41:34):
Bearcat fans that beating Kansas City will for Bengals fans.
And so I think to a degree that's why Saturday's
loss was so damaging. We'll hear from Scott Saderfield coming
up in just about twelve to fifteen minutes the Bengals
game on Sunday. You know, I did the thing last

(41:56):
week where the season's about to start and you have
to off for an obligatory prediction, and we all do it.
And I said, I think the Bengals are gonna go
eleven and six. I'll hold to that. But I more
feel like sort of hitting pause, hitting pause on predictions,
hitting pause on projections, hitting pause on what I think

(42:17):
this team can accomplish, because what I saw on Sunday
was a little bit different than what I saw when
the Bengals lost to the Steelers in the opener two
years ago. What I saw when they lost that game
was Joe Burrow turned it over five times, and you
knew that was never gonna happen again. And as much

(42:37):
as I roll my eyes at the excuse, well, it
was a tough matchup. It was the Pittsburgh Steelers. It
was a Pittsburgh team that did win more games than
it lost. It was a Pittsburgh team that conditioned itself
to being ready to play Week one. The Bengals that
year not so much. It was troubling, it was frustrating.
But I don't know that. I don't know that I

(42:57):
took Joe Burrow turning it over five times and thought, God,
he's gonna turn it over a bunch of times. He's
gonna be a turnover machine. I felt like that was
a huge outlier last season. You know, I rolled my
eyes at the excuses about the weather because I thought
they were stupid and they did look ill prepared. But okay,
Joe was still dealing with a calf issue, and it
was something we could wrap our brain around a little

(43:18):
bit easier than whatever he may be dealing with right now.
And the Browns historically in the Burrows Zach Taylor era
have been a tough matchup for them, and it was
troubling and it was sobering and even maddening. But I
felt like what happened that day was a little bit
easier to wrap your brain around. This is different. First
of all, it's a Patriots team that might win four games.

(43:42):
They could surprise people, I guess, but they're probably gonna
finish in the last place in the division. They seemed
like a decent bet to get the number one overall pick.
They were playing a journeyman quarterback who doesn't represent their future.
They just traded away their best defensive player. Their offensive
line during the preseason was beyond a bus Their skill
player collection might be the worst in the league. It's

(44:04):
certainly among the league worst. But more than anything else
was how Joe Burrow played. And that is the headline.
The headline is Joe Burrow played poorly. Now, are great
players allowed to have bad games? Of course they are.
We've seen Joe have poor performances and you just you
chalk it off. Other team's defensive coordinator gets paid two,

(44:26):
came up with a great game plan in a certain moment,
Joe couldn't make the throw that he needed to. But
great players are allowed to have bad games. Great quarterbacks
are allowed to have bad games. Joe. If you just
want to chalk it up to him having a bad game, okay,
But there's a little bit more. There are things we
know that you have to combine with what you don't.

(44:46):
What we know was the guy had a significant injury
last year. What we know is he played poorly and
he showed a I think pretty clear unwillingness to throw
the ball downfield. And the ball downfield no one's talking
about heaving at thirty five forty yards downfield. Every time,
we're talking about throwing at ten yards. We're talking about

(45:08):
throwing it to the stick on third down. And there
was an unwillingness to do that. There's also how Zach
Taylor handled the punt play on fourth down late in
the game. If he had full and complete confidence in
Joe Burrow and in Joe Burrow's health, does he put
the game in the hands of a defense that on
the ground at least couldn't stop the Patriots? Very fair question.
Those things we know. What we don't know is physically specifically,

(45:32):
where is he now? We know a little. We know
he's been healthy enough to practice, which is great, and
we know that he has been he was healthy enough
to go through his most normal off season slash training
camp slash preseason. Ever, we also know that it's it's
not implausible to suggest that a player who had a

(45:56):
risk injury, suffered a risk injury that required surgery eleven
months ago, might still be dealing with some degree of discomfort.
What level of discomfort is there, if any? And the
only way we're going to get a real answer to
that is if Joe tells us, which I don't think
he will, or if he puts together the kind of performance,

(46:17):
and frankly, performance is in consecutive weeks that make you go,
that's a quarterback who's one hundred percent I think how
he plays is going to answer that question for us.
And so maybe he goes out there against the Chiefs
and plays great. We've seen him play great against the
Chiefs before. Maybe his numbers look awesome, he looks in control,

(46:38):
they expand the playbook, he's on the same page with
all of his targets. He plays like he did against
San Francisco last year when he looked like the best
quarterback in the league, and the Bengals go on the road,
they beat the Chiefs. We're not going to be wondering
as Joe close to one hundred percent, We're not going
to be wondering if he's one hundred percent, And we're
not going to be wondering, God, is he capable of

(46:59):
play the way he needs even if he's not one
hundred percent? But if he plays poorly, again, what do
we do. We're gonna do the same thing we did
on Sunday, except we're gonna do it louder, and we're
gonna do it with maybe a little bit more urgency.
Is he not where he needs to be physically? And
when will he be where he needs to be physically?
And I don't love speculating about injuries because I don't

(47:22):
know how he's doing. You don't know how he's doing.
What we do know is what we saw on Sunday,
and what most of us saw on Sunday, I don't
think jibes with a quarterback who's one hundred percent. So
I'm I'm holding off on I don't know, thinking about
winning the division or making the playoffs or any of

(47:45):
that stuff, because I need to see something that suggests
that either he's capable of playing really well while he's
still inching closer to one hundred percent, or dude's one
hundred percent. If if, what if what ninety percent or
eighty percent or seventy percent looks like? Look if what
that is look like what Sunday was, this team is

(48:08):
probably in a lot of trouble. If what we saw
on Sunday is Joe at and we're just throwing numbers
out there, eighty five percent. Is he gonna go from
eighty five percent on Sunday last week to one hundred
percent this Sunday against Kansas City. Maybe he does, But
if he doesn't, is that what it's gonna look like?
If that's what it looks like, is the team gonna

(48:30):
be good enough to elevate their quarterback, and so I
that that is above and beyond Zach and play calling
and the punt and the run defense and the mistackles,
all of which goes into why they lost that game.
Tan Or Hudson's fumble Charlie Jones fumble. The big question

(48:50):
moving forward is, is what we saw on Sunday reflective
of a quarterback who isn't where he needs to be physically.
And if he's not where he needs to be physically,
can he still play the way the team needs him
to play? What we saw on Sunday would suggest that
there's at least a chance that the answer is no,

(49:10):
and that the answer is no moving forward, That it
feels like this team's potential isn't very high. That sounds cruel,
and it sounds sobering, and sounds maybe unfair. Might sound
like I'm giving up on the season before it begins.
But I don't know what other takeaway there is. I
don't know what other takeaway there is from watching him.

(49:31):
And it wasn't just that they scored only ten points.
It was how he looked. He looked uncomfortable from the
get go, by the way he might not be where
he needs to be physically and it may have nothing
to do with the wrist. Maybe it's a hit he
took early in the game. Maybe it's something that happened
during practice, Maybe it's something that's happened over the last
couple of weeks. I don't know. What I do know

(49:53):
is a quarterback that we expect to elevate his team
on Sunday instead sunk it. There were a lot lot
of reasons why the Bengals lost. Reason number one was
the quarterback play wasn't very good. And I think it's
a lot easier if you're not tying that to his
health to just sort of shrug your shoulders and go,
you know what, it happens. Unfortunately, you can't help it

(50:14):
tie it to his health. So what do we do now?
Do we just assume he's going to be okay very
very soon and good enough to help this team do
what it's done over the last couple of years and
shake off a season opening loss. Does it become the
sort of thing that plagues this team often in the
first four or five weeks of the season. And if
the answer is yes, at what expense does that come?

(50:38):
I don't know, but the opener left me with many, many,
many more questions than answers about the quarterback specifically. And
let's face it, for all the talk of how they
have fixed their defense and what's going to happen at
right tackle in the run game, their hopes of having
a championship caliber team go up and smoke. If the

(51:00):
quarterback play is not what it should be and not
what it usually is when Joe is one hundred percent,
so that's it. That's that's the question moving forward. How
healthy is he and if he's not healthy, is what
we saw on Sunday close to what we could expect
because if the answer is yes, instead of Joe doing

(51:20):
the elevating, the team is going to have to elevate him.
And the unfortunate part of that is against an awful
New England team. The Bengals on Sunday were not capable
of doing that. Our numbers are five point three seven
fifteen thirty and eight sixty six seven two three seven
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(51:44):
vibrant communities for all good at Delta Dental, oh H
dot com Brendanman and Jones on baseball coming up this hour.
Andrew Whitworth joins us in one hour. Your phone calls
are welcome and we will get to them today. Scott's
Field talked about four hours ago the head coach of

(52:04):
the Bearcats coming off the just devastating loss on Saturday,
to Pitt. We'll hear what the embattled coach, Saderfield had
to say when we come back. We're a Buffalo Wild
Wings in Westchester here till six o'clock tonight. There you
go on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Station Football in the Natti, brought to you in part
by modern opust methods on the official home of events,
Cincinnati Natty, ESPN fifteen thirty twenty.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Five at for four ESPN fifteen thirty. Buffalo Wild Wings
in Westchester is the place. We're here till six. Our
friends at bud Lighter here is a losson giveaways. Come
on out and see us Bringhiman and Jones on baseball
coming up in just about twenty five minutes. More on
the Bengals here in just a bit. Andrew Whitworth in
just under an hour. Uh Tony was not with me

(52:56):
yesterday he was off. He talked about it extensively on
Sincy three sixty. The Bengals lose on Sunday. It came
on the heels of a collapse by the Bearcats at
Nippert Stadium on Saturday, and there's no other way to
put it in. James and I talked about this a
little bit that there were there were a lot of
points in that game, going back to the first half
that I think subjected Scott Saderfield and his coaching staff

(53:18):
to second guessing, and a lot of moments in that
game that you felt like, God, you know what, maybe
they've left the door open a little bit too much
for pitt I think the moment that has been talked
about the most is Corey Kiner not getting the ball
on second or third down after a rushed for nearly
one hundred and fifty yards and put the Bearcats in
a position on second and one to come close at

(53:40):
least to salting the game away. So Scott during his
weekly Tuesday press conference, was asked about whether Corey is
being utilized enough or was utilized enough against Pittsburgh, specifically
in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 6 (53:56):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know he we want to
get the ball to Corey. I mean, he's a he's
a great runner. He'd ran great Saturday.

Speaker 7 (54:03):
You know.

Speaker 6 (54:03):
Part of that was the fact that we had to
punt several times in the fourth quarter, where I think
throughout the game we were, you know, getting some first
downs and you know, now you're getting three more opportunities
to get.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Him the ball.

Speaker 6 (54:14):
You know, he ran, he ran hard, you know, and
had two one hundred and fifty yards. But but yeah,
I mean, obviously if you look back on it, you know,
maybe he's getting there a few more carries for him,
you know, because he was chucking out some some big
time plays for us, and and the guys up front
I thought did a good job throughout the day. I
mean they were bringing a lot of pressures, you know,
throughout the whole day. But but obviously, you know, you

(54:36):
get a cord of ball, it's an opportunity for him
to make a play, and you know, but but he's
not in there. You know, whoever the running back he is,
needs to make the plays, you know. I mean we
count on those guys as well, and they have to
be able to make the plays if they're in the game.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
There's a Scott Saderfield. I don't know if Corey took
himself out. I do know this, Pittsburgh couldn't stop him.
It's second and one. I understand him needing a breather,
call the time out and put them back into the game.
That when they couldn't convert. With the way Pittsburgh started

(55:10):
rolling on offense, you could see at that point how
the game was going to end. Their run defense. We
went into the season thinking it was going to be
an issue. It continues to be an issue. And that's
even with the return of Dante Corleone. This past Saturday.
Here's Scott Saderfield after being asked what can be due

(55:32):
to improve the run defense? Oh, no question, Well, we
got tackle better. We got to tackle better.

Speaker 6 (55:38):
I mean, you go back and watch the film and
you know a lot of our defense fitting safeties coming
down making tackles and our safeties, you know, our week
safety we had three different guys come down and miss
tackles on some long runs.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I mean that you know they're there to make the play.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
You know, it just didn't make it, you know.

Speaker 6 (55:54):
So we have to tackle better. We have players in position,
you know, It's it's one thing we have to do
is you go. I can watch the film and like
I said, we had quarterback hemmed up several times in
the backfield.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
We don't get them down.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
You know that that's those plays change games.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
Because you know, now you're looking at a long yard
of situations as opposed to a first down. I mean so,
but I think a lot of it has to do
with tackling, you know, being in the right spots and
getting the guys down.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
They play a three three five. The three three five
as the game wound down, didn't put much pressure on
the quarterback, and so the coach of the Bearcats was
asked about the hesitancy tone to have more players come
after the QB.

Speaker 6 (56:36):
Again, just trying to figure out what we do well
and and you know what we don't do well. You
obviously don't want to give up. You know, if you
bring a lot of pressure, then you're you're a little
bit short handed the back end. So you don't want
to give up the big plays, you know. But obviously
if you don't, then the quarterback's got more time, so
then you got to cover longer, right, So I mean
there's there's that give and take right there, and figuring
out what's going to be the best, and we did

(56:57):
bring more pressures in this in the last game. You know,
I think, you know, as you go back and look
at it, probably probably more than double, maybe triple than
what we did the first game. You know, again, you
go back and watch the film, there's you know, you
watched it live, you probably don't realize. Sometimes we got
guys there and we're just not making the plays.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
You know, we just have to be able to get
them down.

Speaker 6 (57:18):
But I do think, you know, as we as continue
to move forward, you know, whatever gives us the best
chance to stop people, that's what we have to do.
And if it is bringing pressure, then that's what we're
gonna need to do and get more guys close to
the box.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Talked about this. Uh. I think one of the real
damaging things about Saturday was you you have a coach
that a lot of fans have been slow to embrace,
that have expressed skepticism over that maybe aren't completely bought
in with. Saturday did not help, and there are a
lot of folks who are very unhappy, I think with

(57:51):
the direction of the program and the leadership of the program.
And by the way, you may disagree with those people,
but I know those folks are out there and there's
more than just a few. And so Siderfield was asked
about his message to fans who are upset with his team.

Speaker 6 (58:10):
Yeah, no, I mean, shoot man, it's the second game.
I mean, you know, we got a lot of ball left.
You know, we got a big game this week obviously
against Miami, and and this is what we're all focused on.
You know, it was very difficult loss. Obviously, we lost
about one point on the last second field goal.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
That sucks.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
I don't care who it is.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
You know, there were several games that way this weekend
and to be on the losing in the stick is
not not good. But there's a lot of ball left
in the season. We feel like we've got a good
football team. We got we got a connected football team.
We got guys that have a lot of fight in them,
you know, and it was shown over the last two
days here. So you know, we're going to continue to battle,
continue to go out there and put you know, put

(58:48):
a great product out there. We just got to go
out and make plays and and and find a way
to win the game in the fourth quarter. We've had
a lot of close games, you know, and since I've
been here a lot of close games, and we got
to find a way to win those.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Cincinnati and Miami at noon on Saturday, the final battle
for the victory Bell in Oxford, TF and more on
that coming up in just a bit. Phone numbers are
five point three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty Brendaman and
Jones on baseball coming up. Sports headlines as well on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
You've been listening to Football in Minetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life,
Kelsey chev Dot Colm Bengals off today. You know it's
a Tuesday, so the coaches are working on the game
plan for Sunday's battle against the Kansas City Chiefs for
twenty five Sunday pregame coverage on ESPN fifteen thirty starts
at noon. By the way, we'll have for you live tomorrow,

(59:48):
Joe Burrow. You'll hear Zach Taylor as well. We were
playing some audio from Scott Saderfield before the Scott Sadurfield
Radio Show is tonight at eight o'clock. That is on
ESPN fifteen thirty tonight as well from the original Montgomery
and meanwhile, Reds are in Saint Louis. Last night Nick
Martinez was terrific. For the second time in five games,

(01:00:12):
they win a ballgame one nothing where the only only
run was provided by ty France. Ty France has been
a nice pickup. Now, you know, do we have to
talk about him being the starting first baseman next year
without going through the offseason and finding better options. I
don't know that we have to do that. And look,
he if you look at him statistically, is dramatically exceeding

(01:00:34):
anything he has done over the course of his career.
His ops has a red is eight forty five small
sample size thirty five games, nearly one hundred points higher
than it's been for his career. But a nice pickup.
We've beaten up the Reds a lot for some of
the guys they have grabbed Mike Ford's dudes like that.
Ty France has proven to be a nice pickup and

(01:00:55):
he's come up big in a lot of situations. And
say what you want about the moves they made in
relation to the pitching this season, Nick Martinez has been
a nice pickup and I in an ideal world, he
is exclusively, exclusively coming out of the bullpen. Obviously, the
circumstances of the last couple of weeks has dictated his start.
He was terrific last night in a game that was

(01:01:19):
big for the Braves. Good start for Nick Martinez. Rhet
Louder gets the ball tonight for Cincinnati. His first two
starts have also been really good. Seven to forty five.
Tonight's first pitch game is live on seven hundred wl W.
Madewell Restoration brings us tonight starting lineup for Cincinnati against
Andre Polante, India, Dela Cruz, Stevenson, friedel Steer, France, Freeley

(01:01:43):
Espinal and Ahmed Rosario Dhing against seven forty five this
evening on seven hundred WLW. Reds winning that game in
Atlanta last night, a game that was made up from
a rain out back in July, so they go to
Saint Louis tonight, owning a winning stream two consecutive victories

(01:02:03):
going into that series at Bush. They twenty away from
five o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Brendanman and Jones on
Baseball coming up here in just a bit quickly, just
kind of cycling back to the UC thing. Here a
devastating loss. And I said this kind of at the
top of the hour, that the loss for the Bengals.

(01:02:26):
I don't know that there's anybody who's out on Zach Taylor.
You might not be the biggest fan. You might see
his warts and want to talk about them, but can
appreciate what he's done before. I think you also understand
he's going to be the head coach of the Cincinnati
Bengals for quite a while. I think there's some degree
of trust that the franchise has earned in relation to

(01:02:46):
the slow starts. I think there's a degree of trust
that Joe Burrow has earned. Even if you're like me,
wondering is he physically where we want him to be?
And if he's not, when will he be where we
want him to be? The environment surrounding Scott Sadderfield, and
I like Scott Saderfield. I gave him a complete and

(01:03:07):
total pass for how things unfolded last year because I
felt like he deserved one. Number one. I don't think
it's ever been harder to be a head coach in
year one at any school. Then you add to it
replacing a legend which for my money at UC Luke
fickle is and moving up a level of competition when

(01:03:29):
you still have a lot of players who are AAC players.
And so whatever happened last year, not that it wasn't
frustrating in real time passed for the coach could to
be judge a little bit more on results this year.
And as much as I think it's never been more
difficult to be in year one, I think it's never
been easier to get things turned around quite quickly. But

(01:03:51):
the reality is the environment surrounding his hire was one
of skepticism and confusion. I cannot call anybody and this
is no knock on him that when they found out
he was the guy, was that enthusiastic. And even if
you're willing to give him a pass for last year,

(01:04:13):
it's not like a three and nine season is gonna
take someone who's not enthusiastic and instill a bunch of enthusiasm.
And so I kind of felt like midway through the
game on Saturday, like, here's an opportunity. First of all,
you win this one, we're gonna start talking about them
going five and zero. But here's an opportunity for a
coach who's maybe not created a lot of buzz around

(01:04:34):
him being in position. In the position that he's in,
here is a chance to maybe start to win some
people over, maybe just start the process of winning some
people over. And now because of how the game unfolded
and some of the coaching decisions that went into how
the game unfolded, and by the way, the way that
the game ended isn't entirely on the coaching staff. Players
do have to execute and make plays. I feel like

(01:04:59):
it's it's going to be really hard for this coaching
staff to get those people to come back anytime soon.
I said this at the top of the hour. The
Bengals win on Sunday, or even if they lose on Sunday,
and by the end of the Baltimore game Week five,
they're three and two. What happened early in the season
will be washed away. I don't UC can do anything

(01:05:22):
over the next couple of weeks to make anybody stop
talking about what happened against Pittsburgh, because let's just say
they win on Saturday, and the game after that against
Houston is very winnable, and the game after that against
Texas Tech, I think is very winnable, and then they
have a bye. I feel like the bye week is
going to be spent with more people talking about how, yeah,

(01:05:43):
they've won these last three, but they should be five
and oh but the coaching staff got in the way
and because of that, instead of being five and oh
or four and one, and the lousy taste is still
in everybody's mouths from how that game against Pittsburgh went down,
I can be dead wrong about that. Frankly, I hope
to find because that means they win their next three.
But I walked down a Nippert Stadium. I mean number one,

(01:06:05):
I look at my phone. I don't look too much
on social media, but I get text for my buddies,
Like I know where people are with this staff. The
thing is, I think a lot of those people were
there anyway, and so what Saturday was for me was
a missed opportunity to start to bring those people around
and be something that just pushed them further away. And

(01:06:27):
I think it's going to be really hard to get
people to jump back on board, even if this team
can do what I think it can do, which is
when the next three games actually tend to think from
a pure talent perspective, certainly offensively, I think they're okay.
I'm not sure the scheme they want to play defensively
works with who they have and the league that they're in.

(01:06:49):
But I don't think this team is going to go
three and nine. I don't think this team is going
to finish near the bottom of the Big twelve. I
really don't. But barring some complete and total miraculous turnaround,
I don't know that the most likely outcome of let's
say a six and six season or a seven and
five season that at the beginning of the year everybody

(01:07:11):
said would be enough. Now I don't think it will
be because of what happened on Saturday fourteen. Away from
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(01:07:34):
You missed yesterday's Tony and Mo Football show, Go get it.
It's available on the iHeartRadio app, also on the podcast
page of ESPN fifteen thirty dot com. All Things Bengals, Patriots,
Zip around the NFL answered some poll questions talk about
the level of concern in Cincinnati versus the level of

(01:07:55):
concern in places like Cleveland and maybe even Baltimore and
other NFL cities. And yeah, we talked about the Bearcat game. Two.
Go get that now. iHeartRadio app at ESPN fifteen thirty
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(01:08:17):
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Speaker 8 (01:08:23):
Baseball Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC Health
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(01:08:43):
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Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
I'm Nicoll with traffic seven.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
It's Bengals versus Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Joe Burrow where the third touchdown pass.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
The football world will be trained on Kansas City cut
down thangal. That's Joe Burrow and his Bengals go after
win number one against Taylor Swift's boyfriend and the cheap
peck up the Orange and Blake attack, Take down the Arrowheaders,
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Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
I Am Bam Bam.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Coverage begins Sunday at new on ESPN fifteen thirty, the
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Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Just say this really quick. Hi, I'm a Legger. This
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Swift's boyfriend. I could live with that. I know this

(01:09:56):
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relationship with many. I've been talking about their relationships since
the end of two thousand or midway through the twenty
twenty three season. But if like that's that's the biggest, like,
knock on me, you got that? I'm Taylor Swiss boy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
But I'm good with that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
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(01:10:53):
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We'll be here until six o'clock tonight. Andrew Whitworth is
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or so. I'm gonna make a promise to you here.
It is this segment that you're about to listen to

(01:11:16):
will be the last time I talk about Jamar Chase
and his contract unless there is a significant development, unless
they sign a new deal sometime soon, because after this,
I don't know that there's anything new to say. The
season has started, Jamar is playing, he didn't hold out.
Chances are they're still gonna get a deal done this offseason,
and when it happens, we'll all celebrate, and if it

(01:11:38):
happens sometime soon, we'll talk about it. Beyond that happening,
this is gonna be it. So if you are like many,
and I cannot blame you if you are, But if
you are like many who is tired of this topic,
exhausted with it, exasperated, felt like too much time was
spent on it, well, frankly, you listen to other shows.
Because while we did talk about it. We didn't let

(01:12:00):
it dominate the way maybe others have so, but I'm
gonna do it here because it was the backdrop against
which the game was played on Sunday. Right. Let's let's
face it. You're probably like me. You woke up on
Sunday morning and the first thing you wanted to know
was was Jamar Chase gonna play? I think we all
knew team wasn't It's Jamar Chase gonna play? And you're

(01:12:22):
following social media and you're checking dispatches from the stadium,
and you see the video that went out there. I
think Paul was the first to have it, Paul Danner
Junior of him doing his pregame routine with tennis balls
and eleven thirty. Excuse me, you're you're checking the inactives
to see if if Jamar is active, and if he's active,
he's gonna play. That was the question we all had. Frankly,

(01:12:42):
it's the question a lot of us had since the
end of July. Those questions maybe seemed louder and more
pressing at various points during training camp, and that was
obviously the big question on Friday, is Jamar gonna play?
He did he played, Okay, the offense stunk. Joe Burrow
wasn't very good. He played, but the Jamar situation was
the backdrop against which the game was played and against

(01:13:06):
which the season opened, And the Jamar Chase situation did
not have the conclusion that he wanted. I'm not sure
it had the conclusion the Bengals wanted. It didn't have
a conclusion that involved him signing his contract. And you know,
maybe that's okay, maybe he gets his deal next year
and everybody's happy. But I guess this is what I

(01:13:29):
want to know. If you believe Jamar, and if you
believe a lot of the reporting around Jamar and the
Bengals negotiations with each other, then you believe that the
two sides got really really close, really really close. That's
Jamar telling you that. That's the player who has at

(01:13:50):
least to some degree been at odds with the Bengals
telling you, yeah, man, they were close. He affirmed what
Mike Brown said back in July when Mike said we're
gonna bend over backwards, and Jamar was asked to this process,
make you understand what he meant, and Jamar said, yes,
So you just watched your team have to endure five

(01:14:13):
or six weeks of this. Was there a lack of
focus on Sunday because of the Jamar Chase situation. I
don't know. I'll allow for the possibility. I'll also allow
for the possibility that the way they played had nothing
to do with Jamar, but it wasn't helpful. We would
agree with that Jamar not practicing wasn't helpful. It wasn't
helpful to the purposes of getting the team ready to

(01:14:36):
play at its best Week one. Was it a major distraction?
I'm not qualified to say, but I can't tell you
it wasn't helpful. His hold in put the coach in
a really tough spot for a few weeks. Say what
you want about Zach Taylor. I thought he did a
terrible job on Sunday. I think he did as well

(01:14:57):
as he could publicly handling this Jamar Chase thing. So
your coach spent weeks in a very, very tough position.
Your team's ability to prepare for the season at its
absolute best was compromised. You kind of been dragged through
the mud in terms of a lot of national even

(01:15:17):
local people criticizing you. You've You've had I'm sure a
lot of guys on the team watching to see how
this is gonna end and how it's gonna unfold. Understanding
all that, if you are the Brown family, and I'll
full COVID into the conversation as well, understanding all that,

(01:15:40):
why then not get it done? Why then not, you know,
for the for the sake of just making all of
this worth it, suspend our policy of not negotiating contracts
during the season and get it done, just to make
all of this worth it. Because like, there's a part
of me that if I'm Zach Taylor, I'm like, all right,

(01:16:02):
So I had to be the spokesperson for all this.
I had to answer questions about Jamar every single day,
and well, we're right where we were when the season started.
And if I'm one of those players on the team
watching to see, like all right, maybe me being asked
questions about Jamar Chase every single day will prove to
be worth it if he gets what he's looking for.
And by the way, if he gets what he's looking for,

(01:16:22):
maybe that's a signal that they'll give me what I'm
looking for. And maybe you could excuse, Okay, well, Jamar
didn't practice and the team perhaps wasn't at its best.
But you know what, at least we're not gonna have
to deal with questions about Jamar's contract anymore because he
signed one. Like in the absence of that, aren't you
left asking what was accomplished, what got done? What got

(01:16:45):
done with Jamar? What got done with the Bengals? To me,
at the very least, understanding where both sides were coming
from Originally, if I dragged my coach through a very
unenviable situation, if my team was not at its best
in part because Jamar miss so much time, if players
have been distracted, at the very least we could say

(01:17:06):
that was the cost of doing business, and we did
business with Jamar. Now again, it's one thing that the
two sides are far apart. With the Bengals and Jesse Bates,
the two sides were far apart. They were never going
to do a contract extension. The Bengals and t Higgins,
the two sides are far apart. By the way Bengals
concerns about T Higgins always being hurt to a degree

(01:17:27):
amplified by the fact that he's hurt. The two sides
are close by every account that I have heard that
including Jamar's the two sides are close, so they've got
this policy. Well, we don't want to negotiate contracts during
the season. And I asked Paul about this, and I
do understand a deadline is a deadline, and I agree,

(01:17:49):
I understand that, but there are exceptions, and to me,
this was a worthwhile exception. The exception being the last
six weeks have sucked. But you know what, at least
there's a positive outcome. The last six weeks have sucked,
and now there's no outcome. And what happens in the interim, Well,

(01:18:10):
until he signs, more people are gonna wonder if you will,
more people will wonder what games the Bengals are gonna play. Uh,
it becomes a talking point during the season. Maybe it
becomes a talking point during the season if Jamar is
dealing with something physically, who knows? Who knows? That's frustrating
to me as a fan. So you just you just

(01:18:31):
did this huge stare down. You let this thing creep
into the weekend and there's there's no outcome here. What
would be the harm? You know that Bengals players, players
around the NFL have today off, right, Today's they're off day.
If you're gonna let things get to Sunday morning, right
before kickoff, where you're still willing to negotiate a deal

(01:18:57):
and get one done. Why not just go, oh, you
know what, let's just wrap this up on Tuesday. Let's
just good faith effort whatever. Let's just let's wrap this
up on Tuesday, get it done. What happened on Sunday
with the game happened. We've got other issues we've got
to work on. Let's make what the franchise has gone through,

(01:19:19):
what the coach has gone through, what the players have
gone through. Let's make it all worth it because we
got the We got an outcome, and the outcome is
Jamar Chase as a Bengal for the foreseeable future. I mean,
I guess the argument against negotiating during the season is, well,
it disrupts from the goal of winning football games. But

(01:19:43):
let's be honest, the twenty twenty four season didn't start
on Sunday. It started last week. If you're willing to
negotiate with the guy in the seventy two or forty
eight or twenty four hours leading up to the game,
if you're willing to still be talking about the deal
in the hours right before kickoff and you're close, why

(01:20:07):
not close whatever remaining gap there is between you and
the player today? What's the harm in doing that? And
I do understand a deadline is a deadline, but there
are exceptions. Jamar is an exception. You're already shown a
willingness to get the deal done while he's got two
years left, or else you wouldn't be negotiating with him.

(01:20:30):
So you're already willing to make an exception for Jamar Chase.
It's one thing. If the two sides are far apart,
it's it's one thing. If you're you're not even in
the same ballpark, that's that's another different animal entirely. If
you're this close and you were willing to talk with
him on Saturday, or at least talk with his agent
on Saturday, and you're willing to talk with him on

(01:20:51):
Sunday morning, why why can't you do it now? And
just hey, look, it took a little bit longer than
we wanted. We extended this into the season, which we
don't want to do. But at the very least, everything
we've gone through, the criticism we've taken, the impact on

(01:21:13):
preparing for the season, the crap, the coach had to
deal with the crap the other players have had to
deal with. You know what, all of it's worth it
because we got the deal done, and now we could
stop talking about this. The season will unfold the way
it does however it does, and when it's over, we're
not gonna have to talk about Jamar Chase anymore. I

(01:21:34):
do not understand what the harm would be in doing that,
because in the absence of that, what God accomplished here
Jamar Chase, his preparedness for the season was perhaps compromised.
He takes some public kids, I'm sure he has. In
the court of public opinion, Bengals get dragged through the mud.
They'll have to deal with questions about this, certainly when

(01:21:54):
the season ends, and often probably during the season. They're
gonna be a lot of people who wonder, Okay, if
Jamar up a little bit lame, is he going to
take his sweet time coming back? Whether he does or not,
I have no idea, but folks will wonder that your
coach just was put out there by himself for weeks.
Don't you want to make all that worth something. Shouldn't

(01:22:15):
that something be signing Jamar to the contract that you
have already publicly stated you're going to give him anyway?
What's the harm now? I promise that segment is the
last time that I'll bring up Jamar chit. Unless there's
a new development between now and the end of the season.
There might not be any, and so I'm not going
to talk about it. I think we all have Jamar fatigue.

(01:22:37):
If you have something to say, go ahead of five
point three seven four nine fifteen thirty. This isn't me
taking sides. I have tried to look at this from
both perspectives, and I understand both perspectives. I just I
watched the last five or six weeks and thought, you
know what if at the end of it, if right
before the season Jamar gets his deal, then maybe we

(01:22:58):
could say this was worth it. I still think there's
time to do that. I still think there's time for
us to feel that way. Maybe that time is today,
probably not five point three seven four nine fifteen thirty.
It's the bud Light five o'clock happy hour, thanks to
our friends at bud Light. Nothing better. It is really
nice outside, and uh hopefully come on out and join

(01:23:20):
us at Buffalo Wild Wings here in Westchester or an
area Buffalo Wild Wings Tuesdays. Don't forget buy one, get
one half of Traditional Wings. If you are in the area,
we are giving away this awesome bud Light Bengals cooler
at six o'clock. We are having a lot of fun.
Andrew Whitworth is going to call in. We will talk
with him when we come back. It is about twenty

(01:23:41):
minutes after five o'clock. Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester, ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
Station Cincinnati and boy Skyline Shiley on the official home
of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Good Things I Like. Something else I Like is Thursday
Night Football. One of the main reasons why is someone
we love. Andrew Whitworth is a part of the coverage.
Season three of Thursday Night Football starts on Thursday on
Prime Video. Features a good one Bills Dolphins pair of
teams that won Week one. Pregame coverage starts at seven

(01:24:17):
o'clock with TNF tonight. Andrew a big part of that.
The future Hall of Famer for my money, the future
Bengals Ring of Honor inductee, does a terrific job on
the pregame, postgame and halftime show on Prime Video and
nice enough to join us. You get a good one
on Thursday. Unfortunately, first we have to talk about Sunday
Bengals get beat by the New England Patriots. That was

(01:24:38):
no good on a thousand different levels. What about that
performance on Sunday was most troubling to you?

Speaker 7 (01:24:44):
Yeah, I think it was a tough one because you know,
you look at it, you're really expected now with Joe
Burrow having a full training camp, and I think there
was some excitement there. What you thought you'd see this
is that you know, little us in Cincinnati. You know
that this art the last few years have not been
the best, right the first few games, we've had to
kind of go through these pains, and then all of

(01:25:06):
a sudden they get to play and you know the
kind of caliber football you think, and I think the
thing that they really can't go it off of is
that they have been able to build those streaks right,
and they have been able to get hot and show
that ability. But you can't always rely on that, and
so you want to see people play better out the gates.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:25:23):
Unfortunately, some of the things you're worried about from last year.
Run defense still just not the answer.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
Right now.

Speaker 7 (01:25:29):
I don't know if they're big and strong enough up
front yet, you know that's going to be a concerning
thing for me. I think you expect it probably to
the pass offense to be a little loft, just because
all of a sudden you don't have T Higgins and
Jamar Chase having the practice off camp. And I think
that that's something people always just think it's going to
be just fine, but it's a lot harder to be
on the exact same page, and people think when you

(01:25:50):
just want out there having the timing rhythm of plays
and routes and everything else, there's such a just small
room for error in the NFL, and so I I
think I was shocked to see them lose. I thought
they might struggle a little bit, but I thought they'd
stay in the game and mak enough plays late to
win it and just unfortunately couldn't stop the run and

(01:26:12):
something that's going to be a glittering issue all year.
They can't figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Yeah, I would agree with that. You mentioned what's become
a recurring issue and starting the season slow, and you know,
when you entered the NFL, the way teams prepared for
the season was a lot different than when you left
the NFL, and you know those years in Los Angeles,
Sean McVay became kind of known for not playing a
lot of guys who you know, starters and stuff in
the preseason. So walk me through how you balance ensuring

(01:26:38):
that everybody possible is available, keeping everybody fresh, keeping everybody healthy,
but also being prepared to play and win week one,
because this team, for all of its accomplishments, has had
such a hard time doing that.

Speaker 7 (01:26:50):
Yeah, but I think amount of that for theirs, it's
really been there related to Jerburrow's health and really missing
out of training time, and then you know that leads
to the oppositive line and you know, if they try
to upgrade over the last few years, has been some
changes there as well, and so to get used to
your quarterback all those type of things. I don't think
that there's a maturation process that has to happen when
when that's going on now this year, being together, having

(01:27:14):
some experience together, and then just really missing your two
top receivers. You know, as far as see Higgins being
out for the game and Jamar kind of being doll
all camp, you think there'd be a little Hey, we're
just a little off. But you didn't really expect to
see the other struggles. And I think some of it
this ball security, look at it, that's what probably if
I had to go back to offensively, I mean some

(01:27:36):
of the ball security and just things like that. Man,
those are little things. As a football team we have
to be. We want to be a championship calager football team.
That can't be a thing that we have to worry about.
We don't reach smalls out with one hand.

Speaker 5 (01:27:48):
Uh, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:27:49):
We secure the football and we're in traffic. We make
the easy things easy, and those little fine details up
winning and losing games, and so those things are morecancised.
I didn't mean to anything else because I've no doubt
the ability of Joe Burrow, Tamar Chase Dague is really's healthy,
and I think this defense will play well. They'll figure
out how they can stop the run better. And you

(01:28:09):
look at them against the pass, I think they're still
going to be a really good unit. They can rush
the passer. But those little things you cannot do at
this level and expect to win every week.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
The Great Andrew Whitworth with US season three of Thursday
Night Football exclusively on Prime Video starts on Thursday. Bills
and Dolphins. Bengals get the Thursday night treatment twice in
the regular season. Obviously, Prime Video already had him for
that preseason finale against Indianapolis. So you were around this
team a little bit. We saw you talking to Joe
Burrow on the field before that preseason game. You know

(01:28:39):
how this franchise works. What's your take on how things
played out during training camp with Jamar Chase and upper management.

Speaker 7 (01:28:47):
Yeah, I think it's stuff. I mean you start to
see that it look like the performance of a guy
who's been worried about his contract and not that he
plays that have, but just offensively, they don't look like
a team that's been together and growing a lot of
confidence camp, ready to go get after somebody and put
up a ton of points. It looks like, Hey, this
guy hasn't been here off camp, and now he's here,
and you want to be here, and now we don't

(01:29:09):
know any of those answers, and so there's a lot
of like, hey, is he playing?

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Is he not?

Speaker 7 (01:29:12):
Lead up to the game. I mean, this is NFL football,
Like if you are not completely lost in with your
football team, it's nothing against him. It's against as a
football team. If we're not rocked in too, Hey, this
is how we're going to prepare. This is how we're
getting ready to perform each and every week with a
passion and an energy and an expectancy that we're going

(01:29:32):
to go and play in a standard that's our standard
and that should be the only thing we're focused on.
And if we're focusing on anything else, then we're mess enough,
because look, league, you will get beat, You get your
face field off when you go on the game thinking
that you can just show.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
Up and win.

Speaker 7 (01:29:47):
And so I think, to me, it's a great wake
up call to them to say, hey, this isn't about contracts,
this is about anything else. Now we need to decide like, hey,
is this about contractors. It's about witty and if we're
going to have to win, and we guys come out
and play with a nash to listen, an attitude that
we are here for business and that is to get
our job done each and every week, and that's the

(01:30:09):
only thing that's important. And when you see it play
out this way, it's unfortunate because to me, I just
don't like it because it's Jamar Chase, like God's not
going anywhere. You're definitely signing in back, figure it out
and get it done so your football team has some
confidence in, Hey, our best players get taken care of
and we'll move forward as a football team. But when
you have T Higgins in a contract issue because you're

(01:30:31):
retaining him because you can, but you're not giving him
an extension. And I mean Jamar Chase, which you would
consider your number one best player outside of p Higgins
and Joe Bowl also doesn't have a contract. Now you're
sitting there going, wow, two of our best players that
we're not going to take care of either one of
them for the long term. It doesn't give a lot
of confidence and positive energy to your locker room, Like

(01:30:52):
get it figured out, give the guys something to rally
around and go, all right, we got these two for
the next so many years. We're about to build this
entire football and we're gonna have a confidence and energy
to us every time we take the field that we
believe we can go win. Not a lot of questions
and hey, what once the future look like, who's going
to be here? Who's not. When you create that kind
of stuff, you can't be mad when it shows its face.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
You guys have put together on Thursday night. It's an
awesome show. It's a great broadcast. We get a big
kick out of watching you and obviously you got a
really good game on Thursday, so we'll be watching looking
forward to you guys having the Bengals twice this year.
I cannot thank you enough for your time, Andrew, thanks
so much.

Speaker 7 (01:31:31):
Oh, thank you so much. We're looking forward to it.
Bills Dolphins in Miami, come on, it's gonna be a blast.
These two teams were going to get after they put
together some really great games against each other. So we're
excited about a chance to get out of Miami and
covering this game, and then look forward to having the
Bengals a couple of times this year as well. I'm
always happy to get back to Cincinnati and get to
all my food spots, so in December I'll be coming

(01:31:52):
ready to roll. So thank you guys for having me,
and let's have a great week and let's see what
Week two brings, hope.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
So hopefully at victory, I appreciate the time Andrew Whitworth
for my money, and I think most would agree. Future
Hall of Famer and one day he'll have his name
up there at pay Corpse Stadium among the other Bengals
Ring of Honor inductees. First Things, first Season three Prime Video.
Thursday Night Football starts on Thursday, because that's when they

(01:32:21):
play Thursday Night football games. Bill's Dolphins TNF Tonight starts
the coverage at seven pm. Andrew, that is for my money.
There's a lot of great studio shows. For my money.
That is the best and most entertaining, and the loosest
and the most informative and the most fun. It is
twenty six away from six o'clock. Our numbers are five
point three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty. We're broadcasting today

(01:32:44):
from Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester. We're here till six o'clock.
It's the bud Light five o'clock Happy Hour. Still time
to get here and sign up for the bud Light
Bengals Cooler if you get here between now and six o'clock.
Sports headlines and more. Next ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
You've been listening to football in THENETI brought to you
by Cincinnati Tax Resolution, powered by Torfe Sheldon on the
official home of the Bengals. Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty service of.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Kelsey Chevrolet Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit
approval from their family to Yours for life kelseyschef dot
Com Off day for the Bengals. They are getting set
to return to Bork tomorrow play the Chiefs on Sunday
four twenty five. Is Your Kick It is live on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game coverage starts at noon. No

(01:33:38):
Jamar Chase, the Nott sign a contract extension today. Scott's
had Afield Show tonight at eight pm on ESPN fifteen thirty.
U Se and Miami getting set to play the second
to last scheduled battle for the Victory bill on Saturday.
The series time, I think it's sixty sixty and two

(01:33:59):
in the the history, Miami winning last year to even
the series, and so if you win this one on Saturday,
you're guaranteed to walk away from the game in twenty
twenty six, no worse than Tide, and then who knows
when and if they'll ever play again. So a lot
riding on that game on Saturday noon kickoff on seven
hundred WLW on Saturday afternoon. Reds and Cardinals tonight, first

(01:34:21):
of a three games set in Saint Louis. Rhet Louder
very quietly has been terrific. And I say quietly, let's
face it that the Reds are playing out the string,
and so a lot of the hyper attention that has
aimed towards them during the summer tends to get deflected
toward football and other things. And Red's first two starts

(01:34:42):
have been outstanding. Nick Martinez was great last night. Reds
have won two in a row. Andre Polante throws for
Saint Louis seven to fifteen tonight's first pitch, that is
on seven hundred wl W as well. Reds winning one
nothing in Atlanta, Cincinnati winning. It's a second one nothing
game in their last five. In both games, Ty France

(01:35:04):
drove in the eventual winning run. I misspoken seven fifteen.
It's a seven forty five first picks Tonight in Saint Louis.
We're up Buffalo Wild Wings in Westchester. It's the butt
Light five o'clock Happy Hour on ESPN fifteen thirty. We
are here till six o'clock. Still time to sign up
for our bud Light Bengals Cooler, which that might be

(01:35:25):
aside from tickets to a big game. The most coveted
prize I think we have ever given away. There's a
lot of interest in that cooler, so we'll see who
wins it. You can still win it if you get here. Mike.
You're on ESPN fifteen thirty. What's up, pal, what's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:35:42):
Well, I'm thankful to you for taking my call, mall
and how is the family?

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
Family is doing great, Mike? How are you?

Speaker 5 (01:35:51):
It's kind of a little it's low, but I understand, well,
we're gonna get there somehow, some way, we're gonna get there.
And you guys helped me get through it and all
forever and added to you for that. It's thank you
to your tutelage. You know, I always thought that he
was fairly a stupe gambler, and then you straightened me

(01:36:14):
out and asss the importance of research and spending a
little time instead of you know, looking at the paper
and going, yeah, they look pretty good. I think I'll
take them and they want know it. It's way more
than that, and you taught me that, and I'm grateful
to you for that. I had a hell of a
weekend long when eight and two it's never happened to me, never.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Eight and two, Mike, how about that.

Speaker 5 (01:36:39):
Eight and two? And if I had heard you pick niu,
I would have took them. I cleaned up on USF lo.
I took the spread. Yeah, and then I took them
to I took them to score fifteen and a half. Sixteen.
I done. I got a little lucky with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
I gotta tell you that is pretty good. You know
a lot of people made that about Alabama. That USF team.
Obviously Alabama in the football game. That us F team
I think is pretty good.

Speaker 5 (01:37:09):
The quarterback he's a little ross though, but man, they
can run that book. They did they they come to play.
I'll say that. Uh Rams Lions game the other night, though,
Could that have been a better game?

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
That was fun? Yeah, I thought the most entertaining game
of Week one. Unfortunately, you know, if you're a Rams fan,
you walk away from that game. No, Puka Nakua. I
thought it was I thought it was interesting. And one
of the preseason prop bets I took was Blake Korham
to to be the league's leading rookie rusher. I don't

(01:37:46):
think he had a touch on Sunday night. That's a
great game. I was not all in on the Lions
a year ago. I think I am now, especially given
the short term uncertainty surrounded the PA and the Jordan loveingery.

Speaker 5 (01:38:03):
But think about it, well, really the Rams played them
in the playoffs. List you're at Detroit again. Matt Stafford
goes back to his home close game in the playoffs
plays and right down is Matthew Stafford. Would you consider
him underrated or really not? What for opinion of Matt Stafford?

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
Properly rated? I properly rated A good player, very good player.
And look, quarterbacks we judge ultimately by do they win
one or do they not? And in some cases do
they win more than one? Matthew Stafford has one. I
guess I look at him through the lens of At
no point during his career did I ever think, God,

(01:38:45):
that's one of the best three to four quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
In the league.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
But at almost every point in his career, if you
gave him to me and said this is going to
be your quarterback, either for this season or for the
four seable future, well you wouldn't balk at it. You
wouldn't say no. I think he's properly rated. He's had
a very good long career. He played on a lot
of relatively anonymous Detroit teams aside from Calvin Johnson. I

(01:39:14):
think he's properly rated. You know, he entered the league.
I'm trying to think, so that would have been like
oh nine. So he you know, he has a huge
swath of his career coincide with Brady, a huge swath
of his career coincide with Peyton Manning while he was
still good. Basically the entirety of his career coinciding with

(01:39:34):
Aaron Rodgers, the back end of his career coinciding with
Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, if you want to
include him, and I think most of those names that
I have said, at any given point, you would rather
have them ahead of Matthew Stafford. But again, if at
any point during that time I said your team meets
a quarterback, here's Matthew Stafford, you'd go, well, that's fine.

(01:39:56):
I think he's I think he's properly I think he's
properly rated. I think, you know, there's a really interesting
discussion about Eli Manning and the Hall of Fame because
he won two Super Bowls as a quarterback of the
New York Giants in no other year. Did he ever
win a playoff game? I believe and sore, and he didn't.
He wasn't a statistically overwhelmingly impressive quarterback. Do the two

(01:40:20):
Super Bowl triumphs, including one in one of the greatest
upsets ever? Do those trump all the other things? And
I think with Matthew Stafford, I would be willing to
bet that his statistical profile is better. But if you
are talking about him as a Hall of Famer, are
you not talking about him as a Hall of famer?
If the Bengals figure out a way to beat him

(01:40:40):
two and a half years ago in Los Angeles, I
think it's a fair question.

Speaker 5 (01:40:45):
And just two more pushies. I know you gotta go.
Mod did party? Did Perty prove himself last night? I
thought he did. I thought they did. The outlasts suggests
it wasn't even a game.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
Yeah, it's interesting. You watch that first series that Rogers
played in the way they were getting the ball to
Garrett Wilson, and you kind of thought, boy, here we go.
And then for the rest of the game Aaron Rodgers
couldn't move. I kind of felt like, I do not
remember who it was. I was listening to something nationally
this morning, and the analyst said, that's the best I've

(01:41:23):
seen brock Purty play. He's had games where he's put
up bigger numbers, he's had games that have had more
riding on them, And I think that's a good way
to put it. I think he's perfect for what they
ask him to do. They have so many weapons, they
have such a unique offense. There's a multitude of things
that they do that it feels like what party has

(01:41:44):
to do is just make the right decision right. It
doesn't have to do anything over above and beyond physically.
He just has to make the right decision. It feels
like to me like that is the perfect marriage of
system and qban. He is now eighteen and four as
a starting quarterback, which is remarkable. One more, Mike, very quick,
what do you got.

Speaker 5 (01:42:04):
Any five and eleven? Okay, well, are you excited about
the MLB Playoff? I am? I know right now, so football,
but we are tully right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
No, of course. I love October baseball. I like the format.
I wish the Reds were in it, but they're not.
We have to go. We're back at it tomorrow at
three oh five in studio. Next Tuesday, the Buffalo Wild
Wings on Beachmont Next Tuesday. We'll have tickets to the
Monday night game Bengals and Commanders to give away, so

(01:42:35):
mark your calendars a week from today Buffalo Wild Wings
on the east Side Beach Month.

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
We'll see you there.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
The staff here at Buffalo Wild Wings has been awesome,
thanks to those of you who came out, thanks to
our Bengal cheerleader friends, thanks to the people at bud Light,
thanks to Rodney Simpson and Mike Mills for producing on site,
and of course our guy tarn Back and Kenwood. We
are back at it on air tomorrow at three oh five.
Have a great night. Thank you for listening. This is

(01:43:01):
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnatis Sports Station. All for not valid
and also