9/23/24 - Pre Game Sports Talk With Mo Egger

Mo Egger talks David Bell being Fired as Manager of the Reds and previews Bengals/Commanders.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
American Grow. Pregame Sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati and

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Speaker 2 (00:41):
That's us. It's five minutes after three o'clock on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Good afternoon on Mollagar. Hope you had a
great weekend. This is not the Mullager Show, even though
it's on at the same time and the host is
the same. Instead, it's Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports Talk.
We are presented today by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers. We'll get you everything you need to know

(01:01):
for Bengals and Commanders tonight. Game kicks off at eight
to fifteen from the venue originally not as Paul Brown Stadium.
Here at Live on ESPN fifteen thirty. We take you
up to count down to kickoff at six thirty. Wayne
box Miller, the Hall of Famer Wayne box Miller with
a pregame coverage on the network, and then Dan and
Lapp with the call. Bengals trying to avoid an oh
and three start their home on Monday Night Football for

(01:24):
Game three, staring at an oh to three start for
the second straight year. Last year they survived beat the
La Rams on Monday Night Football. Tonight they tangle with
the Washington Commanders. We'll go to Washington coming up in
just about fifteen minutes and learn more about this team
that is quarterbacked by the other LSUQB to win a Heisman.
Jayden Daniels. What can he do to help his team

(01:46):
pull off the upset tonight? We'll find out in just
about fifteen minutes. Also, its Ring of Honor night tonight
at the Bengals game. Bengals inducting two very deserving players,
Corey Dylan, Tim krop I, Love that they do this,
and I interviewed Corey a while ago that did not

(02:07):
air on ESPN fifteen thirty, so we'll share it with
you a little bit later on. But I spent some
time this weekend reading a book by a dude named
Robert W. Cohen, The Fifty Greatest Players in Cincinnati Bengals History.
It is a terrific read. The rankings were less important
to me than what he wrote about each player. It's

(02:27):
an awesome read. If you're a Bengals fan and you
know how to read, you will love this book. And
so I thought, with it being Ring of Honor night
in Bengals history, kind of being at the forefront of
or at least not in the forefront so much, but
the backdrop of the game tonight, it was a good
day to talk to Robert about the top fifty all
time Bengals in the franchise's history, that coming up at

(02:49):
three forty five. Lots of Bengals commander stuff. Obviously, last night,
about ten o'clock, we found out that the Reds have
fired David Bell. David Bell led go with a week
to go in his sixth season as Reds manager. The
Reds lost yesterday afternoon to Paul Skeins and the Pirates
that loss was number eighty one. It weirdly felt to

(03:12):
me like David Bell was managing these last couple of
weeks with an unstated mandate, you better have a winning
season or else. That strikes me as a very short
sighted way of doing things. Let's walk through a timeline here,
let's do this. Okay, So David Bell on July the
twenty eighth, last year, gets a three year contract extension.

(03:33):
Three years And at the time, I don't know that
David getting a contract extension was that much of a surprise.
I think the length of the deal was a surprise.
But on July twenty eighth, David Bell was being talked
about as a guy who might win the National League
Manager of the Year award. He was being lauded for
his work with an uber young team and doing his

(03:55):
job to keep the team in the hunt, keep it
in first place for much of the sim despite the
starting pitching being awful, and so they reward him. Some
of us wondered, huh, do you have to do it now?
Does it have to be three years? But they thought
so highly of him, they thought so much of the
work that he was doing that. On July the twenty

(04:16):
eighth last year, less than fourteen months ago, they give
him a three year contract extension. Let's talk about everything
that has happened since. Okay, starting with right after the
David Bell contract extension the trade deadline last year, the
Reds do next to nothing. They certainly didn't do anything

(04:37):
to address last year's biggest weakness, and that inability or
unwillingness to make the team better likely kept them from
making the playoffs. Right, they had the worst starting pitching
in the National League last year. They knew they had
the worst starting pitching in the National League last year.
They did nothing to make it better. And that's reason

(05:00):
number one why last year's team was on the outside
looking in of the postseason. Okay, so then they have
an off season, and the off season wasn't without its successes.
Nick Martinez was a pretty nice pickup, right, He's done
a good job for this team, likable guy, versatile pitcher,
But by and large, the off season was not really
spent dramatically making this team better. Then spring training begins,

(05:24):
and toward the end of spring training, an avalanche of
bad news from injuries, most notably to Matt McClain to
a eighty game suspension for a dude that a lot
of us thought might be the starting third baseman, Noel
A Marte. Uh So, the season then begins and there
is a remarkable lack of depth that's exposed. Like it's

(05:47):
one thing to talk about all the injuries, it's something
else to see how ill prepared the Reds were for
the injuries. And then there was this NonStop parade of
dudes like Mike Ford and Jacob Herdebies, and you had
Nick Martini, and then later on there was the Austin

(06:11):
Slater experiment, this almost unending parade of dudes who have
either never been good or used to be good a
long time ago. Mike Ford, for a stretch, who was
not good enough to make the team in spring training
or out of spring training, was batting third for a
stretch this season. Then you have the lack of performance

(06:31):
by a lot of guys that were counted on to
have good seasons statistically and otherwise. In twenty twenty four,
Jamer Candelario's ops below his career average, which, by the way,
not that good. He batted two twenty two. Will Benson
an absolute strikeout machine, noelve, Marte eventually came back and

(06:52):
he has been nothing but terrible. Uh, the deadline comes
and goes. This year, what do the Reds do? Nick
Krawl punts, They trade away their opening days starting pitcher.
They do nothing to make the team better. They really
don't subtract, they don't totally sell, they don't go into
tank mode, but they don't exactly go overboard to make
the team better either. Then weeks after that, what happens.

(07:17):
The one foundational piece of this team, It's strong suit,
totally falls apart. Hunter Green goes on the injured list,
Nicko Lodolo goes on the injured list, Andrew Abbott goes
on the injured list. Recently, Brandon Williamson has gone back
on the injured list. They've had essentially no starting rotation.
And then yesterday, just a couple of days after the

(07:37):
Reds were eliminated from postseason contention officially at least David
Bell gets let go. So that, in a nutshell, is
everything that happened between July the twenty eighth and yesterday
afternoon slash last night. That's everything that happened. Did any
of that stuff have anything to do with the manager

(07:58):
of the team, did any so help me with this?
And you're gonna hear Nick crawl a little bit later on,
By the way, Gordon Whittenmeyer the Inquirer covers the team's
gonna join us at four twenty on July twenty eighth,
the Reds think so highly of David Bell that they
give him a three year contract extension before the season

(08:19):
even ends. Fourteen months later, they think so little of
him that they fire him at ten o'clock on a
Sunday night, with five games remaining in the season. In between?
What happened and did anything that happened reflect poorly on
the manager of the Reds? I'm sorry from where I sit,

(08:41):
the answer is no. Five point three seven four nine
fifteen thirty is our phone number. By the way, show
previews available on x thanks to Emery Federal Credit Union
your credit Union with Heart since nineteen thirty nine. Go
to EMORYFCU dot org. From July tw twenty eighth, twenty

(09:01):
twenty three to September twenty second, twenty twenty four. Think
of all the things that have happened, Think of all
the stuff that has gone wrong. Where in any of
that stuff did David Bell go from a good manager.
You might not think David Bell is a good manager.
The Reds did to one that they're now willing to

(09:25):
pay to not work for the next two years. I
am genuinely stumped, genuinely stumped. Look, man, I'm not gonna
tell you that I thought David Bell was the perfect manager.
I spent a lot of time this summer, more time
than at any point during his tenure, talking about individual

(09:45):
maneuvers in game decision making and the inability of this
team to clean up its slop. How many times did
we talk about that in like June and July this year,
the base running, the defense, mental mistakes and that not

(10:06):
that kind of being unending, I'll admit isn't a great
reflection on the manager. I'll acknowledge that. But was was that?
Was that what doomed him? That that's what doomed him
amid all this other stuff that was far more complicit
in the season going awry, things change that much, that dramatically,

(10:29):
that different over the last fourteen months, that you're now
looking for another manager and you're willing to pay David
Bell to not work, that's frankly, to me, pretty staggering.
You could tell me if you disagree five point three
seven four nine, fifteen thirty. I just I am. I'm

(10:51):
really amazed by that. I'm amazed by the timing of it.
Ten o'clock on a Sunday night. Man like they Nick
Crawl woke up yesterday morning knowing he was firing David Bell.
And I'm sure he's not the only one in that organization.
They played a game yesterday, the game ended. Players are

(11:12):
still there, media is still there. They let everybody go home,
Let everybody who covers the team go home, Let the
players go home. So the players couldn't comment publicly on
something that had just happened in the clubhouse. By the way,
I'm going to imagine some of them would have expressed
displeasure with what the Reds did. They send out a

(11:35):
press release at ten o'clock while Sunday night football is
happening with Monday night football in Cincinnati. Less than twenty
four hours later, they send out a press release. A
press release. David Bell managed this team for six years. Again,
may have thought he was a bad manager. Certainly, that's
a long amount of time. Handled himself, by everybody's counting,

(11:57):
handled himself in a professional easy classy manner. The press
release announcing his departure can include a quote from someone
in ownership. Neither Bob or Phil could be bothered to
issue a quote expressing their appreciation for the guy. This

(12:19):
might be the right move, This might prove to be
the right Maybe the Reds higher a genius as a
manager who's capable of taking next year's team and winning
ninety five games. I'll allow for that possibility. I'll certainly
allow for the possibility that the next guy is better
in some areas than David Bell was. But the way
this was handled, I don't know. Maybe it's just me.

(12:40):
Just feels wrong, feels inappropriate, and more than anything, it
can't help but make me think about all the things
that took place over the last fourteen months that David
Bell had nothing to do with. Yet that stuff took
David Bell from a guy they thought highly enough to
give a three year contract extension to being someone they

(13:03):
just let go. That is pretty amazing, isn't it. At
moeger on X, thanks to Delta Dental, Delta Dental is
building healthy, smart, vibrant communities for all. Good to Delta
Dentaloh dot Com, your phone calls are welcome level poll
question thanks to United Heartland Insurance. Later on lots on
the David Bell thing. I've got a few more things
with this. I'll tell you who I want the Reds

(13:24):
next manager to be, but first we'll go to Washington.
Bengals Commanders Tonight kickoff is coming up in just under
five hours here on the official home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Pregame sports Talk. We
are presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers.
On ESPN fifteen thirty Bengals Commanders Tonight kickoff is at

(13:44):
eight fifteen. Wayne box Miller has countdown to kickoff at
six thirty. Tonight. Cincinnati a seven and a half point favorite,
trying to keep pace with the Pittsburgh Steelers, who won
yesterday over the Chargers at home. They're now three and oh.
Baltimore goes on the road Dallas. They dominate the game
and then try to give it back in the fourth quarter,
which is becoming a recurring theme. Baltimore is now one

(14:07):
and two and the Cleveland Browns. I feel like every
Browns fan is officially finally out on Deshaun Watson and
you cannot blame them. They lose a home to the
New York Giants twenty two after three o'clock, tarn are
we in a holding pattern for our friend Craig Hoffman.
We are in a holding pattern for our friend Craig Hoffman,
who does the afternoon drive show. He starts at four o'clock,

(14:30):
so he has a few minutes for us on Team
nine eighty. The Team nine eighty in Washington, DC, Bengals
and Commanders a battle of LSU Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks.
Joe Burrow, of course, and Jane Daniels, who has been interesting.
He has been awesome with his legs. The Commanders have
been terrific running the football. Brian Robinson is averaging six
yards of pop. What I want to know about this

(14:51):
team is why defensively are they dead last in the NFL?
In DA we'll find out. Craig is with us one
of the absolute best in our business. Craig Hoffman, the
Team nine to eighty, and probably the most fit man
in radio, which is not really saying anything because most
people in this business are fat. Craig, It's good to
have you. What's going on?

Speaker 3 (15:11):
What an introduction?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Bo, Hi, my friend, how you been.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
I'm pretty good, pretty good, obviously excited for tonight. I
think anybody who hosts Afternoon Drive you're pretty excited in
a Monday night game.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, you're like, Hey, I think.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
I know what I'm going to do on the show today.
I think I'm going to preview this game that's coming
up in a few hours.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, preview the game. And we had a red with
the Reds manager getting whacked, and so I'm not sure
three three and a half hours is necessarily going to
be enough. Let's let's begin with Jane Daniels. I can
look at the numbers and go, boy, he's been great
with his legs. You've watched every snap. How would you
describe how he's played.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, I think he's played well. I definitely think there's
a there's room for improvement. You would expect that this
is going to be his third game as a pro Tonite.
If he couldn't improve already, that would be weird. So
I think he definitely like they haven't really opened up
the vertical passing game, and that's the thing that I
think that Commanders stands and a lot of analysts and
certainly myself, were waiting to see. But it also makes

(16:06):
sense they set the coverage that they've seen kind of
I think how they're coaching him to be fairly risk averse,
and at the end of the day, if you're moving
to football, if you are not turning it over as
a young player, those are pretty good things. And he's
done both of those, and so I would say they're satisfied.
I'm satisfied, whatever the heck that's worth. And there is
definitely a lot of upper mobility in terms of what

(16:27):
he's going to be able to do in the future.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
New head coach Dan Quinn. Where's been his biggest impact?

Speaker 3 (16:34):
I would say the general attitude and professionalism of the team.
I think last year things got really really sideways under
Ron Rivera, and I think that Dan came in and
reinvigorated the competitiveness of the very few players that they kept.
They obviously rotated a lot of guys out, but I
also don't think they've hit anything remotely where they want

(16:54):
to yet. I mean, they've talked about how they want
to implement this fast, physical play style and how there
are certain guys that are doing that. You know, Frankie
Luvu is someone that will pop off the off the
screen to night number four linebacker for them, But they
brought it from Carolina and the off season super fast.
Like he almost knocked the Leak Neighbors out of the
game last week in the first quarter on a tackle.

(17:14):
Reason one but to get back into play. Just a
super physical football player and that's the kind of kind
of team they want to be. But they just don't
have talent yet. So I think from like that attitude
and kind of focus and physicality standpoint Quinns, that made
an impact. But I do think they're probably still a
year away from or at least a year away from
from having it where they want it team wide, from

(17:36):
bringing in new players and kind of cycling out maybe
the lag or the guys that they kind of had
to keep but ultimately don't fit what they want to
be as a team.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Last week they win a game where they don't score
a touchdown? Is that just red zone issue? Is that
rookie quarterback? Why twenty one points off seven field goals?

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Very bizarre game? Definitely red zone is shoes? They got
down inside. I mean it was so weird though, because
they I think they had multiple third or fourth and
one inside to ten, not third and fourth in goals
and one. So if they can just get a yard,
they get a fresh set of downs from inside the
ten yard line and they jump off sides. So now
all of a sudden, you're in third and six, fourth

(18:17):
and six. Some of those you know obviously on the
fourth and sixth, now you're kicking the field goal. Third
and six, you don't convert, then you kick the field goal.
So it was super bizarre in that way. And I
also think there were some strategic choices made because the
Giants kicker Graham Gano pulled his hamstring on the opening
kickoff and so they didn't kick her the entire game,
and so how they managed that game was probably a
little bit unique. But I would say yeah, most buy

(18:38):
and large, it was the red zone issues of not
being able to finish once they got down there, because
it's not like their kicker Austin Cybern, who they just
brought in that week, by the way, goes seven for
seven in the game. None of them were over fifty yards,
so it's pretty much all red zone inefficiency. And then
ultimately just being like, hey, this guy's pretty good inside
forty sent him out there. They don't have a kicker,
so they're going to have to score touchdowns and those

(18:59):
the New York time, they're probably not going to do that.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Craig Hoffman the team nine to eighty in Washington. He's
on the air in thirty minutes. Coming into the week,
I look one through thirty two teams defensive DVOA. There
are the Commanders dead last thirty second. What's wrong with
their defense?

Speaker 5 (19:15):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (19:16):
This is what I do for three hours a day.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Mough.

Speaker 6 (19:19):
The short answer is.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
The short answer is they have had a lot of
trouble stopping the runs. And some of that is guys,
specifically their two defensive tackles who are supposed to be
their two best players from that side of the ball
and not playing particularly well. They need to squeeze down.

Speaker 7 (19:34):
Gaps a lot more.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
They need to go ahead and make plays on their own.
So both in the kind of dirty work that doesn't
wind up in the stat sheet of a defensive tackle,
they're not doing particularly well as well as they should
and in the hey, you guys are better than the
average defensive tackles, you should show up in the fat sheet.
They're not playing very well. So that I think is
the base level of it. They also, I think, do
make some stylistic choices though that I don't know that

(19:56):
they have the personnel to pull off at this stage
of where they are and they're rebuild. Dan Quinn was
very lucky the last couple of years in Dallas where
he had a very very good offense and he had
a lot of opportunities to playmakers, and he had Michael Parsons,
and so I think stylistically they want to be a
team that's like, look, we'll give you some running stuff,
but eventually you're gonna have to throw on us, because

(20:17):
running the football is not an efficient way to move it.
And by the way, our offense is pretty good, which
when you have Dak Prescott, Pall and the trigger like
that's true. Eventually you're gonna have to pass it and
we're going to we're gonna eat you up. Michael Parson
is gonna come after you. We're gonna blit some, and
we have opportunistic defensive backs on the back end. I
don't think he has any of that here. I think
he's got an offensive still growing. I think he's got
no premiere edge pass rushers, and I think he's got

(20:39):
some dvs that are gigantic question marks, and to the
extent the questions are answered, they're not positive answers. So
I think they're still trying to figure out Dan as
the head coach, and Joey Junior, who we brought in
to be a defensive coordinator, exactly what this defense can
be this year while they still build up the personnel
in the long term. And I'm willing to give them

(21:01):
that grace of it's been a couple of games and
hegar one and one, but it definitely is scary when
they've had trouble, for instance, shutting down top flight receivers
and they have to face from our Chase tonight. Antie
Aiggins is back, so you can devote all your resources
to just Chase.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, no question about that. I know you have a
show in thirty minutes. Man, I'll let you run. Thanks
so much.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Always a pleasure most see buddy.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
That is the great Craig Hoffman. He is awesome. The
team nine to eighty in Washington, one of the very
best in our business. Bengals Commanders Tonight kickoff at eight
fifteen live on ESPN fifteen thirty. We got the dude
who ranked the top fifty greatest players in Bengals history.
Did that for a book which I read over the weekend,
and it's awesome. He'll join us at three forty five.

(21:46):
We're looking forward to that. Your phone calls are welcome
on David Bell and other things. We have the Bearcats
with a very impressive performance on Saturday. We're not going
to ignore that. Plenty on Bengals commanders as well. We'll
get some sports headlines in five point three seven four.
Fifteen thirty is our phone number three thirty. It's Ralph's
American Grill pre Game sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati

(22:06):
and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati
Sports Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. ESPN fifteen thirty. That
is the name of the radio station. It's Ralph's American
Grill pregame sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern
Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Let's take a look at tonight's players Spotlight.

(22:27):
It is brought to you by Furniture Fair. Get the
guaranteed low price or it's free at Furniture Fair. I'm
gonna put Jamar Chase in the spotlight last year Monday
Night Football, Bengals are zero to two. The team is
reeling must win game against the Rams. Joe Burrow said, efitt,

(22:47):
I'm throwing the ball to Jamar Chase, and if you
watch that game. The best game I've ever seen Jamar
Chase play was the game against the Chiefs his rookie
season when he had close to two hundred and fifty
yards receiving. He was awesome. Three town. Second best game
I've ever seen him play that game against the Rams
last year. Ran every route in the tree. The offense
was really throw it to Jamar and get out of

(23:08):
the way. Fifteen targets, twelve catches, one hundred and forty
one yards. Go back to two years ago, Bengals are
zero to two. What do they do? Week three? Throw
the battle. Jamar Chase ten targets against the Jets Malik Neighbors.
Last week for the Giants, Washington won the game. Daniel
Jones said, if I'm going down, I'm going down throwing

(23:29):
the bottom of leak. Eighteen targets, ten catches for one
hundred and twenty seven yards. I don't expect Jamar Chase
to get eighteen targets, but with t Higgins back. Certainly
you're looking for Tea to make a statistical impact. We'll
see how much he actually plays tonight, but Jamar has
talked about it. Few were double teams easier to get
him open. If you want to avoid going oh to three,

(23:50):
borrow the formula from the last couple of years. Get
the ball to your best guy. Their best guy is
Jamar Chase Sports headlines our service of Kelsey Chevrolet, home
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their family to yours for life, Kelsey chev dot Com.
Bengals commanders tonight, T Higgins a go, Amrius Mims expected

(24:10):
to be a go. Chris Jenkins expected to be a go.
We'll find out about Von Bell, We'll find out about
bj Hill. Kickoff at a fifteen Tonight on ESPN fifteen
thirty third two Monday Night football game Tonight, Bill's play
the Jags in the other Mark Doobes Radio show Tonight
at six moves to Fox Sports thirteen thirteen sixty, Texas, Georgia, Ohio, State, Alabama,

(24:32):
and Tennessee one through five in the AP Top twenty
five college football poll. Reds are off. They head to Cleveland,
to start a two game series, final week of the
season for Cincinnati, the Ohio Cup up for grabs, and
the start of the Freddie Benaviti's era Tomorrow Reds and
Guardians Tomorrow night, six forty first pitch, seven hundred WLW.

(24:54):
Nick Kral talked earlier today about the decision to whack
David Bell. I've wondered this. In fourteen months, did things
with David Bell change so dramatically that you're now willing
to pay him to not work? And again, I understand
there are criticisms of David Bell that are very, very valid.
I've thrown some out there. I mean, the base running

(25:15):
not getting fixed, Like, there's some stuff that made me
and I think you and a lot of is frustrated
with the team and by extension, the manager. But were
those shortcomings so glaring that fourteen months after you gave
him a three year extension he decided to whack him.

(25:36):
That to me is weird. It also reminds me of something.
I'll tell you what that is coming up in the
four o'clock hour. Here's Nick crawl Though, answering that question.
Fourteen months, what changed?

Speaker 8 (25:50):
I thought last year we did a better job of
integrating a lot of the younger players to the big
league club this year, I felt that some of those
players took steps backwards.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Huh, no doubt about that.

Speaker 9 (26:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Will Benson took a step backwards. Christian and Carnassi on
Strand barely played, but when he did didn't look like
the same guy that got called up late last year.
Uh noelve Marte took a step backwards. That is that
that that is a fact relative to what he did

(26:25):
in his call up last season. Those younger players taking
a step backwards, that feels to me though, like the
sort of thing that almost should have been built in
from an expectations perspective. And maybe the injuries aren't.

Speaker 7 (26:41):
Like.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
We talked about this back during the season. Remember it
was I think the Pakoda projections had the Reds winning
seventy nine games or something, and I said, why would
you pay any attention to a projection for a team
where there's no track record? There are too many young guys.
There are too many young guys, which means there's there's
an endless amount of possibilities out there for what this

(27:02):
team could do, both good and bad. David Bell's fault
that some of those younger players didn't progress the way
we would have liked. Is it a credit to David
Bell that Ellie Dela Cruz got better this year? He's
not perfect by any stretch. Is it a credit to
David Bell that Hunter Green got better this year, that
the starting pitching as a whole got better this year?

(27:25):
I just it is remarkable to me. Fourteen months ago
we loved the guy. All this other stuff happens that
David Bell has nothing to do with. Now he's the
one out of a job. I don't know, man, Look,
here's what it feels like. This might not be what

(27:48):
it is, but here's what it feels like. There have
been a lot of criticisms lobbied toward the Reds in
recent decades, which is what happens when you go basically
three decades advancing in the playoffs. One of the criticisms
that I've stuck with the most because I think it's
most valid.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Is that for.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Way too many years, for way too much time, there's
been either no plan at all or an unwillingness to
stick to a plan. No to be fair, since the
beginning of the twenty twenty two season, when it comes
to what they've done with the team. I think they
have mostly stuck to the plan. There's some good to that,

(28:33):
there's some not so good to that. It felt to
me though, fourteen months ago, the Reds made a statement
this plan, David Bell's a part of it. Now he's not.
Where else may they deviate from the plan? Maybe the
answer is nowhere? But can you can you not help

(28:58):
but go there if you understand and how this team
has worked and operated for a really long time, either
having no plan or being unwilling to stick to it,
like for a long time, for a long time, regardless
of who the GM has been or who the president
of Baseball Operations has been, it is often felt like

(29:19):
we're doing this, We're doing this, We're actually we're gonna
go do this. That to me is sort of what
this feels like. David Bell's our guy so much so
we're going three years. He's a part of the plan now,
not the plan. Where else may they deviate from the plan?

(29:40):
I guess we'll find out. I found out this weekend
who Robert W. Cohen says are the fifty greatest players
in Bengals history. This is a good discussion I have
on a daylight today because it's Ring of Honor night
Bengals and Commanders, they'll put Corey Dillon and Tim Cumrae
in the team's Ring of Honor at halftime, which will
be cool. Among Robert's Top fifty, this was a great book.

(30:02):
You'll love It should be a fun discussion. We'll have
it next. Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports Talk presented by
You're a Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station in the night games
and I one of them is here on ESPN fifteen
thirty Bengals and Commanders. This is Ralph's American Grill pre
game sports Talk presented by your Greater Cincinnati and Northern

(30:25):
Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Right before we turn things over to
countdown to kickoff, you'll hear my conversation with one of
the two men who goes into the Bengals Ring of
Honor tonight, Corey Dylan the Ring of Honor. I thought
this was a good day to bring on our next guest.
I tweeted out a picture of this yesterday. This is
great weekend reading the fifty Greatest Players in Cincinnati Bengals history.

(30:49):
I like book titles that tell you, plain and simple,
here's what the book is about. That's what this does.
Robert W. Cohen and the rankings are interesting. Frankly, I
was a little bit more interested in the methodology used
to determine which players made the cut, which players are
on the outside looking in, and then the ranking of
the players, but more than anything, some of the biographical

(31:11):
anecdotes involved with each guy. This is pretty well done,
and it's pretty comprehensive as well. It's not, you know,
fifty players, fifty pages in and out, you're done.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Now.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
There's a lot heft to this, so go get it.
The fifty greatest players in Cincinnati Bengals History. Robert W.
Cohen kind enough to give us a few minutes this afternoon.
It's good to have you, sir. How are you?

Speaker 4 (31:31):
I'm fine.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
How are you I'm doing I'm doing well. You've done
this for a few NFL teams. Relative to some of
the other projects, similar projects you've kind of taken on.
How difficult or easy was this?

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Well?

Speaker 10 (31:45):
Prior to formulating my final rankings, I had a pretty
good idea who's going to be in my top fifty,
But other than the top few selections, my rankings kind
of change as I continue to do my research. So
it wasn't as cut and dry as some of the
other books.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Walk me through the methodology, because you know you could.
It's pretty obvious. You have in the front of your
book here it's Anthony Munio's number one. That's no surprise.
From there, it gets to be a little bit more
subjective and there's a lot of different criteria you could use.
What did you where did you place a greater emphasis
as opposed to maybe some other areas well.

Speaker 10 (32:22):
The first thing I should mention is I only considered
a player's time in Cincinnati when formulated to my ranking.
So a great player like Charlie Joyner, who I think
this spent one season and with the Bengals didn't make
the list because it's virtually as entire CREO sparent with
other teams. As far as the criteria goes, the main
thing I wanted to determine was the overall level of
dominance a player attained during his time in Cincinnati.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
So the first thing I looked at there was.

Speaker 10 (32:47):
How many old Pro selections or Pro Bowl nominations he received.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
And whether or not he ever led the league in
a major statistical category. Then I looked at.

Speaker 10 (32:56):
His overall level of statistical compilation, like where he ranks
the teams in the various statistical statistical categories.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Most pertinent to his position.

Speaker 10 (33:05):
And then I also considered his overall contribution to the
success of the team and how much he improved the
fortunes of the ball club during his years in Cincinnati. Obviously,
there would I would say, I would say that the
main thing was the most important fact. There was this
overall level of dominant So with the player like Anthony Muno's,
I'm not only did he did he earn a Pro

(33:25):
Bowl and All Pro honors eleven times each, but he
was generally considered to be the greatest offensive.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Lineman in NFL history. He was clearly the most dominant
player and team mantles.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
What I liked, and I mentioned this before. The rankings
are interesting, there's no question about it. But I like
some of the biographical stuff. I liked the anecdotes. Which
player were you most interested in writing about and which
ones did you find most interesting once you finished writing
about them?

Speaker 10 (33:49):
Well, for one thing, I found generally Claire very interesting
because he had wrestled once with a there.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
I found that anecdote extremely interesting. That was something I did.

Speaker 10 (33:58):
I heard, I thought he heard something about but I
learned more details as I did the research on him,
and then I also learned a little background information on
players such as Ross Browner, who I didn't know that
he had experienced such problems in Notre Dame during his
college career, being suspended for one year. And I think
some of the more interesting players were Chad.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Johnson or Otrasinko, whatever you want to call him.

Speaker 10 (34:22):
And obviously Joe Burrow was a fascinating figure right now
because of the tremendous successes experience over just four NFL seasons.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
When and you have Joe Burrow, you have him, you
have him at number ten overall? Is there a player
or is there a ranking that you expect maybe a
little bit more pushback than others.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
I don't know, because I saw some of the.

Speaker 10 (34:50):
Fan voting that has occurred through the years, and I
think they had Tim Crumbery higher than I mean. I
had him at I think fifteen or sixteen, which is
pretty high. But I think I've seen him as high
as like the top five, which I I thought it
was a little bit high for him. I expect Joe
Burrow and Jamar Chase, assuming they remain healthy, to move
up significantly higher on this list.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if by the end
of his career Joe Burrow's.

Speaker 10 (35:11):
Number two behind Anthony Lunio's Jamar Chase. Right now, I
think I have him ranked as a number four wide
receiver behind Chad Johnson, AJ Green and Isaac Curtis, and
I expect him to move up on that list as well.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Can I give you one that for me was a
little surprising. Yes, I thought Andrew Whitworth would be a
little bit higher than twenty two.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Yeah, well twenty two is not there.

Speaker 10 (35:39):
But I mean you got to consider some of the
players I have ahead of.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
I mean, who would you move him ahead of on
that list?

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, it's tough. I mean, that's the thing about it, right,
Like there's honestly, i'd probably I probably hate to do this.
They played great yesterday. I probably flip flop him and
Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton's at number nineteen. It's not a
dramatic change, but I'd probably flip flop those two.

Speaker 10 (35:58):
Well, there's always a tenant and maybe rank the quarterbacks
a little bit higher, just because they've meant so much
of the success of the team when they were there.
And I know that they didn't win any playoff games
with him, but they did make the playoffs five straight
times and I believe two division titles with him as
the quarterback, So you have to consider that as well.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
You do have a just on the outside looking in
chapter where you go through the Honorable Mention players, guys
fifty one through seventy five, how large was the original
pool of players that you had when you started this.

Speaker 10 (36:28):
There were maybe like another ten or fifteen that I
seriously considered putting into the Honorable Mention list, but I
had an arrow down to seventy five, and some of
those players came very.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Close to making it into the top fifty.

Speaker 10 (36:39):
I mean, I was hard pressed not to include players
like Justin Smith and some of the others I have
in my Honorable Mentions, But like I said, I had
to an arrow it down to a mire fifty, so
that was the way I decided to go.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, no, I got it. I really enjoyed this project
and I thought it coincided very nicely with the Ring
of Honor selections. Let me ask you this, the Bengals
were slow to embrace doing what they're doing tonight, which
is they're putting two more players in their Ring of Honor.
This is something they started just a few years ago.
Corey Dillon and Tim Crumrae go in, which obviously both

(37:15):
very very deserving. Have you followed that process here in
Cincinnati at all.

Speaker 5 (37:23):
A little bit?

Speaker 10 (37:23):
But I've actually followed the Hall of Fame Pro Football
Hall of Fame no elections more, and I think that
there's a couple of Bengals who have not yet been
elected who definitely should be. I think Ken Anderson and
Willie Anderson both should be in the Hall of Fame.
I think Willy may get in before Ken does. But
when you consider all that Ken Anderson ment to the

(37:44):
Bengals during his career, and the fact that he won
an MVP and led the Bengals to their first AFC championship,
and he was such a great decision passer, I mean,
I think he should be in there, and I think
Willie Anderson will get in there in the next few
years because he was considered to be the most dominant
right up insive tackle of his time, so he should
definitely be in there. Yeah, and you and I also

(38:05):
think I also think Geno Atkins will get in eventually.

Speaker 9 (38:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
You know, it's interesting I was going to ask you
about him because the Hall of Fame has historically been
pretty hard on defensive tackles. I think there have been
two that have gone in, maybe three in the twenty
first century. But I think Gino's body of work gives
him obviously serious consideration. And I think if voters, I
don't want to say, lower their standards when it comes
to that position, but if they're a little bit more
open minded about interior defensive lineman that I think Gino

(38:31):
has a better chance than maybe some might realize.

Speaker 10 (38:34):
Well, when you can consider the fact that he ranks
third in franchise history in sacks, I mean that's pretty
daring good for defensive tackle. And I think there'll be
others like obviously Aaron Donald's going to get in a
first He's first ballot Hall of Famer for sure, and
there's some other great ones playing right now, like Chris
Clark of Kansas City and Dexter Lawrence at the Giants.
It's a few other ones that may eventually if their

(38:56):
careers continue to progress the way they are right now,
will maybe make it and eventually, but I think the
only surefire Hall of Fame we have right now is
Aaron Donald.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
He's definitely going to get in.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, no, no question about that. That goes without saying.
We've watched Aaron Donald wreck the Bengals Super Bowl chances
first hand. Robert W. Cohen the fifty greatest players in
Cincinnati Bengals history, as we say, get it. Where you
get your books? Terrific read. I thoroughly enjoyed this. A
lot of time and effort went into this, and it's
a fun read. I appreciate the time. Robert, thanks so.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Much, but thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
You got it, Robert W. Cohen, Get the book. It's
a fun read. And the rankings, I'll just I'll give
you his top ten. How about I'll do that, give
you his top ten. He goes Munno's Anderson, Riley, Willie Anderson,
Geno Atkins, Chad aj Green, Max Montoya, Lamar Paris, Joe
Burrow number ten, and Tyler Boyd number fifteen. You want

(39:48):
the Rasco, get the book, Robert W. Cohen. There you
go six minutes away from four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Bengals commanders tonight Cincinnati trying to avoid an OH to
three start the NFL yesterday. You know, there's something that's
a lot of fun whether your team has a bye
week or plays on a Thursday or plays on a Monday,

(40:11):
just sitting back and watching the rest of the league.
Pittsburgh wins again three and oh. You may view that
as fools gold, and I think there's some validity to that.
When you talk about the Steelers offensively, they've given up
twenty six points this year. They're the real deal on defense.
Kansas City is now three and oh with another skate

(40:33):
by the skin of their teeth win, this time on
the road against the Atlanta Falcons, a victory that, like
the previous one, did not come with people complaining about
the officiating. And frankly, I think last night some of
the gripes were legitimate. Buffalo tonight could be three and oh.
So you just look at the AFCU. If you lose

(40:54):
tonight three, you know we're gonna we're gonna do all
the statistical models about what the likelihood of an O
and three team making postseason I think the Bengal's gonna
win the game tonight. I do think. I do think
this is going to be a closer game. Then you
might expect seven and a half points spread. Cincinnati is

(41:14):
not very good against the run. Brian Robinson was terrific
against the Giants. He was so so in Washington's first
game against Tampa Bay. But honestly, the Bengals run stopping woes,
to me at least, have less to do with who's
carrying the ball and more about what the Bengals aren't
and what they don't have up front. A lot of
mistackles in that game against the New England Patriots, but

(41:37):
I think they can run it well enough to keep
the game moderately close and even perhaps cover the number.
But as much as we have comforted ourselves with history
Bengals starting oh and to last year, coming out of
it starting oh and two or two years ago, and

(41:58):
really coming out of it winning the division, getting to
the AFC Championship game, like a three game deficit no
matter who the first place team is in your division
three weeks into the season is going to be really
hard to overcome. And then, like, let's face it, man,

(42:21):
I mean We went into the season talking about the
Bengals super Bowl chances, super Bowl or bus that kind
of thing. Kansas City's victory means they're effectively if you
lose tonight, I mean, honestly, if you lose tonight, you're
owing three. We shouldn't be talking about chasing down anybody
for first place. We shouldn't be talking about chasing down
anybody for the number one seed. At that point, it

(42:43):
just becomes about, you know, win a game, eventually, get
back to five hundred, put yourself in the mix. But
like all of these things that we talked about coming
into the season, seating, maybe not having to go on
the road in the playoffs almost totally go out the window.
If you don't take care of business, we'll see t
Higgins said to him, make his return, which we'll spend

(43:04):
some time on between now and six point thirty as well.
Also going to be watching a couple of guys I'll
be watching closely tonight. Chris Jenkins is one of them.
He's gonna play with a club on his thumb, and
Trent Brown is one because a Marius Mims is at
least the plan is for him to dress and so
one of the things that I think is going to

(43:24):
be interesting. Look, a month and a half ago, Marius
Mims was the story of training camp. So there's two
questions there. Number one is how far behind is he
relative to where he would have been had he got
through an entire training camp. Chances are he would have
been the starting right tackle. And number two is how
long is the leash for Trent Brown? Hopefully he plays

(43:45):
well enough that we're not talking about his leash, but
how long is it? We'll be watching him closely tonight
as well. Your phone calls are coming up at five
point three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty. I don't know
who the Reds are going to hire to be their
next manager. Nick Crawl today made it sound like he
hasn't even started to compile his list yet. Many are

(44:08):
going to mention Barry Larkins. Skip Schumacher's name is out there,
set to be done managing the Miami Marlins. I have
one wish. I have one wish for who the next
Reds manager is. We'll get to that coming up. It's
coming up on four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. A message from dav to Al read.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Versus Rounds American Grow. Pregame sports Talk presented by your
Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota deators. Pregame sports talk is
brought to you by Skyline Chile. Feeling good. It's Skyline Time,
a door and window company. They sell the best and
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(44:51):
Cincinnati Asphalt where precision paves the way. Your Cincinnati at
Northern Kentucky Toyota deators Visit Toyota dot com for a ball.
Toyota offers Toyota Let's Go places and by a Rough's
American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio, just off seventy one, Exit
fifty inside the Holiday and the Roberts Center. No pregame

(45:12):
sports talk.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
That's us five minutes after four. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty on Moeger It's Ralph's American Grill. Pregame sports Talk.
We are presented by your Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty. Bengals and Commanders coming
up tonight. We are with you till six thirty. Count
twenn A kickoff takes over with the Hall of Famer
Wayne box Miller leading you up to kickoff, Dan Horde,

(45:35):
Dave Lapping, the game kickoff at eight fifteen. And by
the way, tonight game's gonna end. What read about eleven eleven, fifteen,
eleven thirty. Somewhere in that ballpark, we've got the locker
room report and then the postgame call in show all
the way until three o'clock in the morning. That's right.
I believe that's Austin Elmore if I'm not mistaken, taking

(45:56):
phone calls until three o'clock in the morning. So there's
I mean, there's nowhere else to go. There's there's nowhere else.
You gotta be right here, right three o'clock in the morning,
take a phone calls.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
The last couple of weeks has been about taking the
Bengals at their word. It's been about deferring to their
track record. It's it's been about giving them the benefit
of the doubt, because I think you have often been
able to, you know, look back on their track record
and default to the fact that they started owing to

(46:32):
each of the last couple of years. The theme from
the venue formerly known as Paul Brown Stadium over the
last couple of weeks has been one of we're not panicking,
and we're getting healthier, and we're getting our key wide
receiver T Higgins back, and we've been here before, we've
done this before. We're going to be fine. We're at home.
They haven't come out and said the schedule is pretty forgiving,

(46:54):
but the schedule in the coming weeks is pretty forgiving.
Even though Andy Dalton looked like the greatest quarterback of
all time yesterday and the Panthers won a game, Cincinnati
goes to Charlotte next week. Then they've got the Ravens,
who looked pretty impressive for a large chunk of time
yesterday but really haven't been able to play four quarters yet.

(47:14):
And then there's a road game against the New York Giants,
who give them credit for beating Deshaun Watson and the
Browns yesterday, but still the first couple of weeks, the
last couple of weeks have been about kind of giving
the Bengals the benefit of the doubt because they've done
this before. That all goes away if they lay a
stinker and lose tonight. Do they lay a stinker, do

(47:36):
they lose? Do they come out of the third game
with a victory for the third consecutive year. We'll find
out this evening, by the way quickly, Tony and Mo
Football show tomorrow Twin Peaks in Westchester will be there
from three to six. We hope you join us. Your
phone calls are coming up here. We've talked a lot
about David Bell five pine, three, seven, four, nine, fifteen

(47:57):
thirty and eight, six, six, seven, two three and seven
to six, and you know, there's a lot of criticism
being aimed at the Reds, and perhaps deservedly and understandably.
So I don't like how they did this. I don't
like how they did this, and I don't understand really
what changed over the course of fourteen months, but I

(48:19):
think you do have to at least acknowledge this. As
down as you may be on Nick Crawl, as down
as you may be on Bob Castellini and Phil Castelini,
as down as you may be on the Reds. When
David Bell took this job in October of twenty eighteen,
the Reds were coming off their fourth consecutive season of
losing ninety four more games. The farm system was almost

(48:45):
totally barren. They had no prospects of even sniffing the postseason.
That first year, it felt like they were still a
long long ways away from just getting back to respectability.

(49:06):
Now I tend to believe that it still feels like
the Reds are further away than they should be from
true genuine contention. But I don't think it's far fetched
to say that the job of Cincinnati Reds manager right now,
on September twenty third, is better than it was six

(49:27):
years ago when David Bell took it. That's admittedly not
a very high bar to clear. But Tarn asked me
before the show, is this a desirable job?

Speaker 7 (49:35):
Now?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
There's only thirty of them, They're all desirable number one.
As much as it feels like David Bell got done dirty,
he did get six years. This is not a team
that cycles through managers every two or three years. So
you are going to get if history, if we use
it as a guide, you are going to get some
time also, And I maintain this, I think there are

(49:56):
a lot of managers who next year would like to
have some of the pieces the Reds have. No some
of those pieces are still very unproven. Some of those
pieces have to bounce back from a wasted year and
show that what they did two years ago is a
better representation of who they are. They need better health.
There's a lot of questions about the starting staff, because
if you project the twenty twenty rotation right now, none

(50:18):
of those guys have gone through a full big league
season without an injury. But I do feel like the
Reds will go in the next season starting from a
relative relative place of strength, at least when it comes
to having a foundation on which they can build, and
that in itself makes the managerial job better than it
was when David Bell took it. David Bell took over

(50:40):
as Red's manager, they had just come off a ninety
five lost season, and your guest was as good as
mine as to who was going to be on the
team by the time they finally got good. I don't
feel the same way this go round. There is just
a big part of me that would have liked to
have seen David get a chance to actually see this

(51:00):
through to its completion. Ten after four Thanks to those
of you who have waited patiently. Ian You're on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Good afternoon.

Speaker 11 (51:11):
Hey man, So I want to take it back. I'll
make this quick, but what I think bick Krawl's he's good.
The problem is ownership may be a little impatient. Last
year if you recalled this clear edough if I'm wrong here,

(51:32):
but they were like, these guys are young, they're a
head of schedule. We're gonna take it patient here. And
a year later, with the injuries that inquired, all of
a sudden, it feels like Nick Krawl had to make
a move on his decision that really wasn't his decision.

(51:52):
He had to like cool the heat by doing the
skatescoat move. And it makes me think like ownership does care,
but they also care about their bottom dollars, so it's
like they want to see the numbers, but then they
also don't have the patience to wait around when you know,

(52:13):
if you didn't have all these injuries this year, it
could have been different. Maybe not well, I mean, let's
get real here, think about previous general managers. There's like
there's a trail you can kind of see a pattern there.
I don't think that these guys have as much control
as they should have, and ownership maybe getting in the

(52:35):
way when it needs a step back and let the
pros do what they do. You know, you tell me,
that's what I'm feeling.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Well, I mean, you know, Nick went out of his
way on multiple occasions today to say that this was
his decision. I thought it was striking that his name
was the only one on the official statement announcing that
David Bell had been let go. But I mean, look,
here's the reality. Is this the I'm a denominator over
the course of the last eighteen years has been ownership,
and over those eighteen years, the Reds have done a

(53:05):
lot more losing than winning. And until that changes, I
think for any shortcomings the Reds may be guilty of,
for any of their failures, for any of their decisions,
you're ultimately going to point the finger at ownership. Would
I be surprised if I found out that there was
input from ownership that suggested it's time to move on
from David Bell. Of course not. Would I be surprised, though,

(53:28):
if Nick Krawl made the case, look, you're paying this
guy for two more years. We have to pay him
no matter what. But I want to move on from him.
And it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was
the one that went to ownership and said this is
something that I want to do. I mean, again, if
it's just about the bottom line. If I'm Bob Bob
or Phil Castellini, I'm kind of looking at it, going
to wait a minute. We just signed this guy to

(53:48):
a three year extension. Now I've got to pay the
guy for two years even though he's not going to
do anything for us. So I don't know. I think
there is some validity to the idea that this was
something that Nick wanted to do and at least convinced
ownership to sign off on.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
It well to finish off.

Speaker 11 (54:04):
And I know you got to go, but I just
want to say, if that's the case, don't cry about
small market team and this and that.

Speaker 7 (54:14):
If you're willing to dump.

Speaker 11 (54:15):
Money like that, I mean, come on, you know, do
you want to make moves. Let's make other moves. Let's
figure out the help. Let's figure out is the pitching.

Speaker 7 (54:27):
Coach the right guy?

Speaker 11 (54:28):
How long has it been. Let's think about some other
things instead of using the easy out.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
That's it.

Speaker 6 (54:34):
That's all I got.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
I guess what Ian, thank you. I guess what I
would want to know. And we we're not going to
get this answer today. Relative to how things look today,
composition of the coaching staff, structure of the organization, and
the roster. How much different are things when when spring
training begins, or is it simply a matter of we're

(54:56):
we're gonna fire the manager, wipe our hands, and then
we're good to go. Like, what a new manager? That's fine,
But you can't convince me that number one, the fortunes
of the twenty twenty four Reds would have been different
with a different manager, and that number two that everything
else can remain status quo and all you need is
a new guy in the dugout in twenty twenty five.

(55:16):
That to me completely and totally strains credibility. But I guess, like,
if I'm from pub Castellini or if I'm Phil Castelini
and we just gave David Bell three years and now
you're coming to me saying, uh, we're moving on and
you got to pay this guy that I don't want
to be the team's manager for two years. Well guess

(55:38):
what now, big boy, you'd better get it right with
this one. Like I think, right or wrong, whether you
like it or not, whether I like it or not.
Nick Crawl is now in the crosshairs. He publicly takes
ownership for moving on from David Bell. He talked about
the search he talked about leading the search. I've got
to think he's not going to be given multiple chances

(55:59):
to high or a manager. So you're telling me we
got to move on from the guy that we just
extended and now I have to pay him even though
he's not gonna work for us. All Right, dude, you
better nail it with your hire because if that guy
doesn't work out, we're gonna be looking for someone to
replace you. By the way, I am done hearing about

(56:22):
small market when a playoff series every three decades, Like, legitimately,
if you're gonna use small market as an excuse, get
out of the business. Legitimately, Like I'm not a big
bug who sold the team guy, But if if that's
all we're gonna hear small market, that was they were
a small market team when you took the job. They

(56:43):
were a small market team when he bought the team.
Buying the team and moving into the role that Nick
Crawl has had and he's been with this organization for
quite a while, tells me you believe you're the guy
you're You think you're the guy that can win in
spite of being in a small market. We're not asking
for a a five year run like the Houston Astros had.

(57:04):
We're not We're want the Reds to make the playoffs
occasionally and you know, actually advance in them in an
era where we have watered down the season with more
playoff teams, in a division where, no disrespect to the
Milwaukee Brewers, none of the other teams are really that good.
I haven't won a division title in twelve years. Twelve

(57:27):
years in the National League Central. That's not about small market.
It's about an organization that has failed. Gordon Wittmeyer on
David Bell's dismissal. Next on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 10 (57:39):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteenth This is football in the NATI,
brought to you in part by modern office methods.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
On the official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
It's twenty one after four Pregame Sports Talk or Rouse
American Girl Pregame Sports Talk presented by Your Cincinnati in order, Kentucky,
Twota Dealers, Bengals, and Commander's coming up tonight in less
than four hours. Meanwhile, the Reds announced last night, right
around ten o'clock David Bell out as manager. Freddie Benavitez
takes over for the rest of the season. Five games

(58:14):
left and a managerial search world commence, and I guess
it has already. Gordon Wittenmeyer covers the Reds for The
Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com. Follow him on x at GWMLB.
I know he has been swamped since this story broke,
and so I appreciate him giving us some time. Gordon,
goodness have you? How are you?

Speaker 8 (58:34):
I'm doing okay?

Speaker 4 (58:35):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I'm good. So I don't know that anybody is shocked
that David Bell lost his job. I think that the
timing of it, how it went down for some, for many,
is a little jarring. What do you make of how
things played out in the aftermath of the final home
game of the season yesterday afternoon?

Speaker 8 (58:56):
Yeah, I would agree with your take on that. At
the biggest surprise was just the timing, and that was
explained today by Nick Crawl as being basically an opportunity
to get a head start on the whole process once
the decision was made, and he said the decision was made,
discussions were going on for weeks, but the decision was

(59:18):
really made in the last couple of days, and so
once that happened, he said well, this one week of
sort of clarity and having this move done, knowing you're
going to make it at the end of the season anyway,
allows for some face time with people left in the
organization for exit interviews, knowing that this change is coming,

(59:40):
and also to get a head start on making some
phone calls and putting together a list of finalists and
maybe maybe jumping ahead of the line a little bit
on some other teams that might be out there looking
for new managers.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
You wrote about Luke Mayley, who basically has said, look,
this was not on David Bell. What went wrong this
year a reflection of us as players, not so much
the manager. Red's going to be in Cleveland tomorrow, so
you know you're not gonna have a chance to catch
up with the guys in the clubhouse today. But but
when you talk with players, what do you imagine the

(01:00:13):
reaction to last night's news is going to be.

Speaker 8 (01:00:16):
It's going to be similar. Look, the one thing about
David Bell is he's he's widely respected as a baseball
man and really honestly beloved as he's such a good person.
I don't know if you've had much of a chance
to get to know him I've known him over the.

Speaker 12 (01:00:34):
Years, a little bit as a player, a little bit
as a.

Speaker 8 (01:00:35):
Coach, and that now as a manager here in Cincinnatian,
and he's just he's one of the really good people
in the game, aside from whatever you might think of
him or the job he did this year as a
manager or whatever. And so those relationships are real in
that clubhouse. And there's a lot of people with some
bittersweet emotions about this, probably probably probably more on the

(01:00:59):
bitter side than in the sweet side.

Speaker 12 (01:01:01):
And uh uh.

Speaker 8 (01:01:03):
You know, probably some more people along the lines of
Luke Mailey's thinking that that, hey, you know, if we
played a little better, maybe this guy we all like.

Speaker 12 (01:01:13):
So much would still be here.

Speaker 8 (01:01:15):
And uh, you know, obviously there's true to that. I mean,
if they're if they're winning, he's he's still managing. But
on the other hand, they are really worse some issues
with maybe uh maybe not uh maybe not dropping the
hammer enough on on on some of the things that uh,

(01:01:36):
maybe you and I or some other people would have said,
you know, that's unacceptable. And sometimes sometimes just as simple
as not saying that something's unacceptable, that we all can
use our own eyes and see you know whether it's uh,
you know, Ellie de la Cruz clowning around on a
pop up and it winds up dropping between two guys. Uh,

(01:01:58):
that can't happen. Uh, And be nice if somebody said
that can't happen, But that wasn't the response. And so
that and breakdowns and fielding breakdowns and base running fundamentals
at times not looking prepared. Those are all things that eventually,

(01:02:20):
no matter what the root cause is or which people
are failing, that always is going to fall on leadership
and the manager.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Do you believe there was an accountability problem with this
year's team?

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (01:02:35):
I can't speak to everything that went on behind closed doors.
I can speak to the way questions I and other
people asked public were answered publicly. I can speak to
what I saw game after game after game, and how
players seem to respond to mistakes, and how.

Speaker 12 (01:02:58):
I guess how.

Speaker 8 (01:02:59):
Leadership team to respond to some of those mistakes. So
there's different styles in different ways to get people to respond.
But when you're talking about a very young team, a
group of very young players, most of these guys are
not most of them, but a lot of these guys
we're spending their first.

Speaker 12 (01:03:19):
Years in the big leagues this year.

Speaker 8 (01:03:22):
If you take the pitching side out of it, you
just look at the everyday players. It's a very young group,
and when you have that and not a lot of
sort of peer police in the room to check and
balance things, then that is always necessarily going to fall
on the manager.

Speaker 12 (01:03:39):
And the coaches to do that.

Speaker 8 (01:03:40):
It does anyway, but it's going to be. It can't be.
It can't be delegated to that, but there's nobody to
pick it up except for the manager and the coaches
at that point. So if those problems persist, that's who
it's on.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Horten Wittmeyer covers the Reds for The Inquirer and Cincinnati
dot Com and is on x GWMLB. Nick Crawl today
talked about philosophical differences, and you know, fourteen months ago
they were on the same page enough that David Bell
gets a three year contract extension. What philosophical differences emerge

(01:04:15):
over the last fourteen months.

Speaker 8 (01:04:18):
Well, I took that to me, and part of it
was he felt he spelled out the part last year.
Like last year and up through last year, he felt
like that was the right man at the right time
for that job, and the guys who came up from
Mat Matt mcclains of the world, Elie de la Cruz,
Andrew Abbott, Christian and Karnacian strand even to Welbie Morte,

(01:04:40):
all had success in those debuts last season, and that
team performed well, played its ass off all the way
down a stretch, overachieved for the amount of pitching they got,
and they were in it until a day before the
season ended, and this year almost opposite took place. Now,

(01:05:01):
there were injuries, no question, But if you want to
talk about injuries, we can name a whole bunch of
kids and start rattling off key injuries. But the guys
on the field and guys that were expected in many
cases to perform this year, didn't. You're not you weren't going.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
To get like all these rookies.

Speaker 8 (01:05:21):
You're lucky if you throw six rookies at the wall,
you're lucky if one sticks to stick and really perform
at a high level and continue to after even debuts
we saw last year, So you knew you.

Speaker 12 (01:05:34):
Weren't going to get it from everybody.

Speaker 8 (01:05:36):
But the things when you set up a roster to
be more athletic, to run a lot, to try to
beat teams at the margins. You can't lose at the margins.
You can't lose consistently at the margins, or it's a
failure of process. And that's what we saw happened.

Speaker 12 (01:05:58):
Over and over again this year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I think a lot of us thought it was interesting.
I certainly did. The press release last night included one quote.
It was from Nick Krawl. The media availability today was
one person, It was Nick Krawl. Is the message there?
And Nick said, this was my decision set a multiple times?
Is the message there? Look, this is on Nick, this
is nixt show. Stop talking about ownership or do you

(01:06:24):
believe that there was a little bit more ownership involvement
than maybe everybody's letting on?

Speaker 8 (01:06:30):
Oh, there's no doubt that there was ownership involvement, and
by definition more than zero, you know, and zero is
the amount of voice we heard from ownership on this. Yes,
there were constant conversations with ownership on that. I wouldn't

(01:06:52):
I wouldn't try to suggest based on some of the
things that I've heard that podcast. Malini said, hey, you
got to fire David Bell because the team sucks. I
do think that this was Nick Nick Kral's decision I
do think that he watched a lot of these breakdowns
and probably at first did a lot of head scratching
and then was like it got increasingly upset about what

(01:07:15):
he was watching is and of course in the season
went on and realized that we need a change going forward,
We have to have somebody come in with a different voice.
And uh, you know is that that voice h David
David Bell, as I said, is so terrific human being

(01:07:35):
and these relationships he builds in the game, or the
strength his strength, and it was probably kind of a power,
a manager power he had last year when these young
guys came in.

Speaker 12 (01:07:47):
But after they experienced the success they.

Speaker 8 (01:07:50):
Did in some cases, that sense.

Speaker 12 (01:07:54):
Of hey, you guys are all big leaders.

Speaker 8 (01:07:58):
In my mind or everybody belongs and we're all in
this together. And even you know, eventually, you know, you're
telling sixty guys you're all a member of my twenty
six man roster as far as accessor as well, well,
that's not true. I mean, you know, these guys aren't idiots.
They they know there's accountability built in to professional sports.

(01:08:22):
In Major League Baseball, that's what they call it the
major leagues. For the reason you don't have to shine them.
So I think when you're talking about, in particular, young
players without a heck of a lot of veterans in
the clubhouse to really, as I said before, peer police
and there are a few, and they do a good

(01:08:43):
job the few they have, but it's not a very
good student to teacher.

Speaker 12 (01:08:47):
Ratio in there.

Speaker 8 (01:08:49):
So when you don't have that, you probably need a
little stronger messaging, a little firmer hand than we saw
at times this year. And I think that that ultimately
is is what led to what we saw last night.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
You've been very generous with your time and I know
you have a lot going on. So one more so,
Nick was not the executive who hired David Bell. That
was Dick Williams. So this is going to be the
first managerial search that he spearheads. He just fired a
guy with two years left on his deal. So ownership
is going to have to pay David Bell for two
more seasons to not work for them. Does that dynamic

(01:09:24):
put an added dimension of heat on Nick?

Speaker 9 (01:09:29):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:09:31):
In some ways? I mean then look, ownership signed off
on this. This doesn't get done without it going all
the way up the ladder. So now what right, they
got to pay the rest of the contract. Are you
willing to go in on Tito Francona if he wants
to come out of retirement.

Speaker 12 (01:09:50):
He says his health is good enough that he'll give.

Speaker 8 (01:09:52):
It one more go round. Are you going to pay
what more would be the starting price on him? Three
at twelve million? Would you do that if you're the
owner of this ball club? I mean history tells us
maybe not, and.

Speaker 12 (01:10:07):
Recent history tells us that. And if he's already.

Speaker 8 (01:10:09):
Paying another manager to not manage in the next two years,
maybe not. But if you want the best guy on
the planet who's under the age of sixty nine right now,
who can manage a baseball team, it might be Teo
frank ConA. And if you're willing to spend that money,
that's my.

Speaker 12 (01:10:25):
First phone call. Then you go to guys like Skip.

Speaker 8 (01:10:28):
Schumacher in Miami. He's leaving Miami. He's going to be
a hot commodity. His price might not be cheap because
there might be a few teams after him. How aggressive
do you want to get with that? So these are
the kind of things I think David Ross, a former
Red who got the shaft in Chicago, did a good
job there, and the only thing that hiring Craig Council

(01:10:50):
has proven is that the manager didn't make a difference
in Chicago. So maybe David Ross is somebody to look at,
because maybe he wasn't what the Cubs tried to tell
us he was.

Speaker 12 (01:11:02):
So these are these are.

Speaker 8 (01:11:04):
All things in my mind.

Speaker 12 (01:11:07):
You put your wish together, wishless together.

Speaker 8 (01:11:09):
Tito Francone's at the top of it, and then you you.

Speaker 12 (01:11:13):
Just go after the best guys.

Speaker 8 (01:11:15):
But the resources, what ownerships willing to spend that might
wind up like who they land on as the guys.
The interview might tell us a lot about that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah, uh, you know, and one more I lied, I'm
gonna ask you one more. Ever, ever since Brian Price
took over for Dusty Baker, I've I've listened to people
opine that the job is one day going to be
Barry Larkins. You didn't mention his name. Does that mean
he is not a candidate to be the Reds next manager.

Speaker 8 (01:11:47):
Oh, I think he'll get a conversation at an interview
with h with Krawl. I think he'll be looked at.
All indications that that I know of, it's something he.

Speaker 12 (01:11:59):
Would be interested in.

Speaker 8 (01:12:02):
He's a He's an interesting candidate when you look at
it now. I remember when Ryan Sandberg was wanted to
be the manager in Chicago and they said, well, okay,
go be the manager of the minor league. So well,
and then he stuck to the stuck to the stuck too,
and they didn't want to hire him as the manager
because you can't fire him. You know, you hire the

(01:12:24):
Hall of Famer, and you know there's a notion. So uh,
he wound up getting shot in in Philly.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
And but.

Speaker 8 (01:12:33):
Lark Lark, and I'm sure will be looked at and
I'm sure he'll get an interview.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
It'll be interesting.

Speaker 8 (01:12:39):
I mean, there's this. I could totally see the Domino's
falling in a way that he could be at least
right in the mix to the end.

Speaker 12 (01:12:49):
It's not the guy.

Speaker 11 (01:12:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
I know you have a lot going on. Busy day
for you. I appreciate you giving us some time. Thank
you so much, Gordon, you got it. Read Gordon's work.
Since I the Inquirer gets quotes from Luke Mailey, I'm
sure there'll be more of those as the Reds get
back on the field tomorrow. We are way late twenty
three from five o'clock. It's Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports

(01:13:11):
Talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyter Dealers
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
You've been listening to Football in Theinetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty. Bengals ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports Talk presented by You're Cincinnati
and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Moeger Here till six thirty,
Wayne Box Miller count time to kickoff, and then Hord
and Rap have the game eight to fifteen from the
venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium. Pregame sports Talk
is brought to in part by Encore Technologies. Go to

(01:13:51):
Encore dot Tech. Now it's time to take a look
at what happened on this date in Cincinnati sports history.
It's brought to you by Pellow Windows and Doors Pellernal
pay Later. It was on this date in nineteen seventy
nine that Chris Barr made a fifty five yard field
goal for the Bengals. That record would be one that
he held to himself until twenty twelve, when Mike NuGen

(01:14:13):
equaled it. That record would fall in twenty twenty one
when Evan McPherson would bang home a fifty eight yard
field goal. It was on this date in nineteen ninety
Bengals improved a three and oh with a forty one
to seven blowout win over the New England Patriots at
Riverfront Stadium. It was on this date twenty three years
ago two thousand and one Bengals defense for six turnovers

(01:14:33):
in a twenty one to ten win over the defending
Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens at Paul Brown Stadium. That
team would finish the Bengals six and ten, but they
started too and zero. They beat the team to start
the season that would win the Super Bowl that year,
and their second win was the team that won the
Super Bowl the year before Dick Lebo the head coach.
It was on this date in twenty twelve Bengals played

(01:14:56):
the Commanders Tonight twelve years ago today, Washington's FOT Paul
team was known as the Redskins. Mohammed Sanu started the
game with a touchdown pass seventy three yards to aj
Green Bengals beat the Redskins thirty eight to thirty one.
I was looking at the box score of that game
and I saw something that I have almost no recollection of.

(01:15:20):
Armand Benz caught a touchdown pass in that game from
Andy Dalton. I remember the game. I remember Mohammed Sanu's
literally took the first snap from center, so he was
technically the starting quarterback, and through the pass to AJ Green,
I remember the Bengals winning. I remember armand Bins being
a Bengal and dressing for a handful of games. I

(01:15:42):
had no recollection of him catching a touchdown pass. It
would be the only touchdown reception of his career, but
it was a big one, as the Bengals won that
game by seven points. Second biggest touchdown catch of armand
Bin's football life. Eighteen away from five five o'clock, Brenivan
and Jones on Baseball is coming up. I do appreciate

(01:16:04):
those of you who have waited patiently. Rob, You're on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon.

Speaker 7 (01:16:09):
Well what's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:16:10):
Brother?

Speaker 7 (01:16:11):
Thanks for having me on? Sure, I don't mind waiting
to know. I love listening to your show. You do
a great job.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I'm very kind of you. Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:16:18):
The gentleman that just you just talked to. I was
waiting before he called, and he spit out exactly what
I was going to say. It's the it's the way
the team has been progressing defensively running the bases, and
we talked about it. I've watched every game or listened
to every game this year on the radio or watched it,
and it was they were repeating the same mistakes. And

(01:16:41):
I'm just like, they were much better defensive team last year.
You know, I get the injuries and everything, with just
the way the things are called this year, they just
keep happening over and over and over and over again.
It was just like these one run games that we lost,
which we've lost quite a bit of been half of them,

(01:17:01):
wims would be sitting pretty right now, you know, just things.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Yeah, I mean, look, I'll acknowledge. I'll admit that most
of the summer I spent time wondering why some of
the sloppiness didn't get fixed running the bases, bad defense,
things like that, and ultimately, the managers in charge of
correcting mistakes and the managers in charge of holding players

(01:17:28):
accountable when they make mistakes. I guess what I would
want to know is you sat down with the guy
last summer, and when you give someone a contract extension,
certainly this is the case, I believe, when their deals
about to be up and you give them a three
year deal, you're you're effectively re hiring them, right. And
so you rehired David Bell because you felt like he

(01:17:49):
was the right person for this team for what its
personality was going to be moving forward. You felt like
a guy who through five years, you had a very good,
large sample size to assess David Bell, and you somehow
missed the mark on determining whether or not he could
hold players accountable correct stuff. That's just very very strange

(01:18:10):
to me how they missed this in determining we're going
to bring them back and then fourteen months later deciding
he's not the guy. The things that changed behind the scenes,
the things that change within full view, the things that
change that had nothing to do with David Bell, and
the things that change that might have had a lot
to do with David Bell. How that all unfolded the
way it did in such a short amount of time,

(01:18:31):
to me is really really interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:18:34):
I was surprised myself for them letting him go before
the season was over. I figured they'd let it ride out.
But then the gentleman before made a good point. Maybe
they wanted to send a message to the players, like, look,
we're not accepting the play that was happening this year,
and we're going to get ahead of the game. We're
going to find that hopefully find a coach that they

(01:18:55):
really want to pay. Hopefully they'll pay a decent one,
and I'll get them in there. But I agree with
you it was a sort of weird them doing it
right now. But maybe they just assumed they the year
before we were winning one run games. The year before
we were a pretty good defensive team, and the regressing
and base runners. We were really good at running bases

(01:19:18):
and getting players over blatting with two outs. That's what
winning teams do. You get on with two outs. They
did that pretty good this year. But as far as
moving the base, moving the runners over, and the defense,
and they assume that stuff was gonna be as good
or better than it was last year. And like you said,
I think that culmination of all that stuff brought them

(01:19:39):
to the point where, hey, this is not good enough
for us, so we're moving on and let's get move
on early so we can get ahead of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Yeah, no, it feels that way, Rob, thank you so much.
I do understand getting a jump start on everybody else.
I do. I mean the one that Red hired David Bell.
That's exactly what they did because they fired Brian Price
in late April, so they had like a five month
to jumpstart on everybody else. I like, I understand that.
I just I felt like, I don't know, ten o'clock

(01:20:12):
at night, a press release, no quote from ownership, it's
it's buried against Monday night football. It's not done in
the immediate aftermath of the game. Players aren't there to
answer questions that just you might have wanted the Reds
to move on from David Bell. I feel like though,
within that, within that understanding, there was a better and

(01:20:34):
I think classier way to handle it. David Bell took
a lot of public bullets for things that were not
his fault, a lot. You know, we discussed this on
the show all the time. The job of a manager
is all encompassing, but one of them is he's basically
the organization's press secretary. And so in twenty twenty two,
when the Reds decided to blow that team from the

(01:20:54):
previous year up and went in the direction that all
but assured they would lose more than ninety games, and
they lost a hundred games. The person who was having
to answer questions every day, twice a day for an
entire year was David Bell. And I never publicly saw
or heard him complain. I thought he handled himself in
a very classy, professional manner, and I think because of that,
I think he deserves something that just felt a little

(01:21:17):
bit better last night, just a little bit better now. Look, man,
I understand you might have watched David Bell manage the
team this season and thought, boy, there's not much accountability.
Fair observation. You might have watched Threads this season and thought, God,
mistakes aren't getting corrected. Fair observation. But when you decided

(01:21:38):
to bring him back, whether you are Nick Crawl or
you are Phil Castellini, or you are whoever, you decided
to bring him back, you thought his personality was the
perfect fit for what you knew the composition of the
team was gonna be. You knew you weren't bringing back
Joey Vado, You knew there was gonna be very little
veteran presence on the team. You knew it was gonna

(01:21:59):
be U. How did you miss on that? That's what
I would be asking Nick kraw How did you whiff
How did you miss on that? You've had a working
relationship with this manager forever, you knew what the composition
of the team was basically going to be. How did
you whiff on knowing or not knowing that the manager

(01:22:20):
was either going to be taking advantage of it by
the players, or not hold the players accountable or not
be able to get through to them when it comes
to correcting their mistakes? How did you whiff on that?
And I would also wonder how many how many times
during the season where conversations had between Nick and David

(01:22:42):
first name basis regarding some of the things that you heard.
Gordon Jess mention, I don't know the answer. I'm not
asking because I expect anybody to have the answer. But
was there at any point a discussion with the manager
where he was told, look, X, Y and Z has

(01:23:05):
to be cleaned up. You are letting this team walk
all over you. There does have to be more accountability.
We want a little bit more discipline, And maybe there
was pushback I don't know again, I'm not here today.
You that I felt like David Bell was the greatest
manager ever. And there are some names that I think
are really really fascinating. If the Reds could somehow convince

(01:23:29):
Tito Francona to come out of retirement, that is one
of the biggest coups ever. Hall of Fame manager been
to World Series with multiple franchises, right, Like that would
be one of the coolest manageriald coups ever. But how
you go from fourteen months ago determining this guy's back

(01:23:50):
for three more years to fourteen months later being so
soured on him that you punt, you move on and
a I gotta pay him for two years? Like what?
What an incredible series of events that had to have happened.
As it relates to David Bell's ability to connect with players,

(01:24:11):
hold them accountable, correct their mistakes, you believe that he
was the guy to do those things. On July twenty
eighth of twenty twenty three. On September twenty second of
twenty twenty four, you determined he wasn't. How things went
from where they were to where they ended up in
fourteen months is remarkable, remarkable. Five point three seven four nine,

(01:24:37):
fifteen thirty. Meanwhile, Bengals played tonight. On top of that,
told you last week I was bullish on the Bearcats,
and you saw why on Saturday. We'll spend a few
minutes on that coming up in the five o'clock hour
as well. This is Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports Talk
presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
To American Grow Pregame sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati
and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Pregame sports Talk is brought
to you by Skyline Chile. Feeling good, It's Skyline Time,
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(01:25:21):
Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers. Visit Toyota dot com for all
Toyota offers. Toyota Let's Go places and by a Rouff's
American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio, just off seventy one, Exit
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pregame sports talk.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
It's Whoa seven after five ESPN fifteen thirty on Mowegers
starting two minutes late. My apologies for that. It's Rouse
American Girl pregame sports talk presented by You're Greater Cincinnati
and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty. And
it's the bud Light five o'clock Happy Hour thanks to
bud Light. If you're going to the game tonight in ice,

(01:25:59):
call bud Lights awesome. If you're tailgating, if you're just
getting off work and maybe headed one of the establishments downtown,
grab an ice cold bud Light. Perfect for game day,
perfect for Sunday, perfect for Monday Night. Monday Night Football
Tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty, the game at eight fifteen.
Wayne box Miller, the Hall of Famer has countdown to
kick off at six thirty, and then Dan Horden, Dave

(01:26:21):
Lap and have the game coming up at eight fifteen
live on ESPN fifteen thirty, with postgame coverage going all
the way until three o'clock in the morning. This week
is about a lot of different things. It's about the
return of t Higgins, which could not come soon enough.
It is about, hopefully the continued progress for Joe Burrow.
It is about well the Bengals trying to figure out

(01:26:43):
how to stop the run. It's about the Bengals trying
to figure out how to keep Jaye Daniels from beating him,
beating them with his legs and perhaps keeping him in
the pocket. It's about this team showing that it deserved
what we have given it. I don't think there's been
panic over the and two start. I don't think there
has been cause for any of us to readjust our

(01:27:07):
forecast for the season based solely on theh to two start.
There have been causes for concern the way they played
in the first game offensively, uh, some of the issues
stopping the run in both games. But I don't think
there's been anything to make you completely readjust how good
or bad you thought this team was going to be.

(01:27:28):
I think we have all deferred to their track record.
I think we have all deferred to their sort of
built in confidence. I think we have all deferred to
us believing the Bengals have earned the benefit of the
doubt when it comes to bouncing back from oh to
two starts so tonight against the team they're favored to
beat by seven and a half points, with an offense

(01:27:50):
that should be fully operational. With T Higgins back at
home Monday Night football, can this team avoid and three start?
Can this team start to do the things that make
us believe that the things we talked about this team
being able to accomplish during the summer are definite possibilities.

(01:28:13):
That's what tonight is about. A lot more on the
Bengals as they get said for the Commanders coming up tonight.
In in just a bit. We've talked a lot today,
as you might expect. Reds fired David Bell last night.
We have a poll question. It comes your way thanks
to United Heartland Insurance, the place to go for any insurance,
need home, autocar, life, whatever, uhi NS dot com, uhi

(01:28:39):
ns dot com. The Reds firing of David Bell was
a the right move, be the right move, but the
wrong way to do it, or see the wrong move.
So far, the overwhelming majority of you say the right move,
but the wrong way to do it. I think there
are fair criticisms of David Bell. I just I keep

(01:28:59):
harping on this and we'll get some more phone calls
here in the few, but I keep harping on this.
You made the decision as an organization last summer David Bell,
with no time left on his deal, we're gonna bring
him back. We're gonna re up. And you re upped
them based on a nearly five year body of work,
knowing what his strengths and weaknesses were, knowing what his

(01:29:19):
personality was, and also understanding the direction the team was
going in, and you made the decision, this guy is
perfect for what we're going to be next season. If
you didn't feel that way, then you shouldn't have given
him a three year contract extension. Fourteen months later, things
have changed to the point that you're now willing to
let him walk while you still have to pay him

(01:29:39):
for two more years. I don't think that's a reflection
of David Bell. I think that's a reflection of the
people that chose to give him a to give him
a contract extension. They whift, They whiffed in assessing whether
or not David was the right guy for this team
this year. He was already the manager of last year's team.
They made a decision last summer about this year next year,

(01:30:01):
and the year after, before this season's even over, they
jump ship. They hit the EJEC button. That's not so
much a reflection of David Bell as it is the
people who chose to lock into him for three more
years now moving forward, it is interesting for as much
as the Reds haven't won, they've had relatively few managers.

(01:30:25):
I was thinking about this driving in today. I started
doing this show in two thousand and seven, and right
when we started doing our show, Jerry Narren got let go,
so we had like three months of Pete mccannon, and
then we had all of Dusty Baker, all of Brian Price,
we had all of David Bell. So basically we've had
three managers. That's compared to some franchises not that many.

(01:30:50):
We're getting set for a fourth. Who it is, I
don't know. I think some of the names would just
listen to Brendan Ban and Jones on baseball. Some of
the names that Marty and Trace he kicked around, are
kind of interesting. I think David Ross is kind of
interesting because I felt like he was in a tough
spot a he took over for Joe Madden, who I

(01:31:10):
think is a goof but still won the World Series
there had no coaching experience, no managerial experience in the
minor leagues. Was managing some guys that he had been
teammates with. Also, I think was kind of the victim
of the Cubs effectively trying them, trying to them, stopping

(01:31:31):
trying to win. They stopped trying to win, is what
I'm trying to say. I think that's interesting. Derry Frankcona
would be fascinating. Then there's Barry Larkin. Now, as a
lover of stories and narratives, there's nothing cooler than that story.

(01:31:52):
Reds haven't won in three decades. Who do they finally
win with? Hometown guy whose jersey number is retired, who's
in the Hall of Fame, who was on the team
the last time the Reds won the World Series? As
a lover of stories and narratives, as a lover of scripts,

(01:32:13):
there's nothing better than that as a practical manner, I
guess when I hear people mentioned Barry Lark andight, I
wonder where's that coming from? Is it coming from?

Speaker 7 (01:32:27):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
That was my favorite player growing up, and so I
want him to be the manager. Well, Barry was my
favorite player growing up too. I'm not entirely convinced he
should be the manager, or at least not entirely convinced
he should be the manager without vetting him or having
a search. But what's the motivation? Is it?

Speaker 5 (01:32:47):
Boy?

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
Would be a fun story. The hometown guy manages his
hometown team, leads him back to long overdue glory. Is
that what we're chasing? Or are we hiring the best,
most qualified person for the job who's also the best fit.

(01:33:08):
Do we want him to be the manager because he
was our favorite player, Do we want him to be
the manager because he's Barry Larkin? Or do we believe
that at the end of a long, exhaustive, comprehensive, well
thought out search he ends up being the right guy.
I do think there's something about he's never managed. He's

(01:33:30):
talked about wanting to manage. Gordon Wittenmeyer was with us
about forty five minutes ago, and he talked about Ryan Samberg,
and you know, it didn't work out with him in Philadelphia,
but he wanted to manage. And he decided, you know
what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna manage in the minor leagues.
Work my way up. Doesn't mean you have to do that,
but I've always I've always questioned the the seriousness of

(01:33:57):
Barry's managerial aspirations, like give you you want to be
a manager, go up, manage somewhere Again, there have been
managers who have come from the broadcast booth and done
a good job been managers. Steven Vote in Cleveland this year,

(01:34:20):
didn't spend a lot of time, was out of the
game as a player for one year, and has done
a terrific job with Cleveland. Aaron Boone went from the
broadcast booth to managing the New York Yankees, one of
the most difficult jobs in all of sports. But I've
heard about his managerial aspirations for quite a while, and
yet I've not seen him go manage. And so with that,

(01:34:43):
like I talked about this in twenty thirteen and when
Dusty got let go, and I said it again, and
when Brian Price got banged in twenty eighteen, and I'll
say it again here. I want the Reds to do
what they did when they hired David Bell, which was
a long search. Now they're not going to have five
months like Day did in twenty eighteen, but a long

(01:35:05):
search interview people from other organizations. It behooves you to
do so, turn over every possible stone, bring in people
from different backgrounds, have a very wide net, have a
large pool of candidates. Some might be former players, some

(01:35:28):
might be former players who didn't get to the big league.
Some might be a little bit more analytically minded, some
might have more of a scouting background. And then determine
who the best and most qualified person is and hire them.
And if that's Barry Larkin, then it's Barry Larkin. But

(01:35:52):
you might lose me is if you let it be Barry?
Why because you think he's the absolute best possible candidate
they can hire, Okay? Or do we want him to
be the manager because he's Barry Larkin? If the answer
is because I think after a long exhaustive search, he

(01:36:12):
would be the best guy, Okay, I'm in. I'm a
thousand percent in. I've never been a huge fan of
the idea that you're just gonna make him the guy
because he's around and look, he's got a relationship with
the younger players, he's worked with Elie Delacruz, He's obviously
had a front row seat in the broadcast booth to

(01:36:33):
watch things unfold the way they have. But would we
want Barry Larkin to be the manager if he was
former Minnesota twin Barry Larkin or former Philadelphia Philly Barry Larkin.
Or do we want the person who emerges as the
best and most qualified from a large pool of candidates

(01:36:55):
that gets thoroughly and carefully vetted. Five point three seven
four nine fifteen thirty is our phone number on x
at Moegger go answer our poll question. Thanks to a
United Heartland Insurance. There's something else about There's something else

(01:37:16):
about managers that I think was proven again this year,
and we'll apply it to the Reds that coming up
in just a bit. More on Bengals v. Commanders Corey Dillon.
My interview with him coming up after six o'clock. He
goes into the Ring of Honor tonight. We'll go to
Washington and talk about the commanders as well, and uh
gotta spend a few minutes on the Bearcats, which we
have not been able to do today, but they were
impressive on Saturday. We'll talk about him coming up in

(01:37:38):
just a few take some phone calls as well. It's
a Ralphs American Grill pregame sports Talk presented by your
Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
Station Cincinnati's El Football in Theinnetti Wrot in part by
Bloodlight Podland by Skyline Chilly.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
Skailin Chilly, Official Home of.

Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
The Bengals, Cincinnatises fifteen to three.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
Two of my favorite things. It's the About Light five
o'clock Happy Hour, Ralph's American Grill pregame sports talk presented
by a year Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers
Moegger till six thirty, Wayne box Miller countdown to kickoff
and then Horden Lapp had of the game at a
fifteen from the venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium.
Phone calls in Justice second time to take a look

(01:38:22):
at who's hot in the NFL, brought to you by
Plump tighte. Because you deserve better, you need to call
plump Tight Plumbing, heating, cooling and drains. Go to plump
Tight dot com. Very few in the NFL yesterday is
hot as Andy Dalton, who with Marvin Lewis on the
opposing sideline, carved up the Raiders thirty six to twenty
two in his first start in place of Bryce Young.
He threw for three hundred and nineteen yards and three

(01:38:44):
touchdowns in a fourteen point win. Andy Dalton and the
Panthers host the Bengals next Sunday. There are four teams
who have emerged through the first three weeks with an
unblemish record. One of them the Seattle Seahawks. A sloppy
performance by the Seattle Seahawks. Skyler Thompson started at quarterback

(01:39:06):
for the Dolphins. He ain't the answer, twenty four to
three the final score there. Vikings also three and oh.
Arn couldn't be more excited. They hammer Houston thirty four
to seven. The Sam Darnold resurgence has taken the NFL
by storm. Chiefs are three and oh. Not a great performance.
Not a lot of big plays from that Kansas City offense.
They do get some good groundwork from Carson steel and

(01:39:29):
some a J. P. Ryan nearly one hundred yards between them.
They get a big fourth down stop on a toss
left pitch play which I don't understand. Chiefs from now
three and oh so are the Pittsburgh Steelers. They have
given up twenty six points in three games. Justin Fields
threw a pick yesterday, but I thought looked pretty competent
beat the Chargers. Steelers in the AFC North now three
and oh, I think this division's overrated. The Browns don't

(01:39:52):
look good at all. Miles Garrett has two bad feet.
Deshaun Watson is terrible. I do believe we we've got
to go from Okay, is he gonna be the guy
he was in Houston all those years ago to now?
If you're a Browns fan, Hey, how can we win
with this guy? B Is it time to give Jamis
Winston a larger look and see how on earth can

(01:40:16):
we get out from underneath this contract. Deshaun Watson stinks,
but he didn't get sued yesterday. And when Deshaun Watson
doesn't get sued, I guess for him, that's a good day.
I still believe the Steelers are fools. Gold give him
credit for getting the three wins. That defense is legit.
I just I'm gonna remain skeptical until the second half
of the season when their schedule gets exponentially tougher. And look,

(01:40:40):
the Baltimore Ravens look good for two and a half
quarters yesterday, And I still believe that there are the
Bengals primary competition for an AFC North title. Cincinnati's got
to get a win before we could even start to
talk about that. But if you're a Ravens fan, they're
sitting there at one and two, and that game, which
was twenty eight to six in the fourth quarter yesterday,

(01:41:03):
ended up being a lot closer than it should have been.
Give them credit for a winning, which is all that matters.
But relative to how we've talked about this division, and
understandably so because of how last year win, I do
think this division top to bottom is a little overrated.
Uh ty, thank you for hanging on. You're on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Good afternoon, Hey good, have.

Speaker 6 (01:41:25):
You any Moto problem?

Speaker 7 (01:41:26):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (01:41:26):
I just want to my point on a David Bell thing,
and I'm fine with him being fired, but this is
a group of players that absolutely got too comfortable. I
mean it was obvious, so there was no fear there.
Based on their base the base running has to be
historically bad. I didn't see any real statistics on it,
but as far as pickoffs, scratching, extra bases being caught like,

(01:41:49):
it has to be historically bad. I would love to
see an analysis on it because it was some of
the worst base running I've ever seen as a baseball
fan in fifty years. I mean, it was absolutely terrible,
and I just feel like they got way too comfortable.
They need somebody that's gonna get in their face a
little bit get them motivated. It's just it's too much.
You know, from the from the small park, small market standpoint,

(01:42:11):
you know, relatively speaking, Bob Casolini is the poorest owner
in all of baseball, and I think it's really not
even close. He's trying to run this with a P
and L like any small business would. This is not
a this is not a P and L business. This
is a business that this is a toy. This is
a rich man's toys what it is, and he's just
the way over his head. W'ere ever gonna get a winner.

(01:42:34):
The owner's got to go in to your point. I'm
not a big sell the team guy, but this is
just way too much for him, and they've proven.

Speaker 5 (01:42:40):
It for a long time.

Speaker 6 (01:42:42):
He just does not have the bankroll to operate something
like this. It's just it's just obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
Well there's truth to that. At the same time, there
are like twenty other owners and what they've never done
is going to capitol call. They've never gone on a
capitol call to ask those other owners to pitch in.
So those other owners are just making profit and not
having to invest. And so if you're unwilling to do that,
well then you can't, you know, hold your hands out
and cry poor and like they were a small market

(01:43:09):
team when they bought it. They knew it was a
small market. They knew the economics of the sport were
unlikely to change. They knew that our market size wasn't
going to change. They knew there was going to be
a limit as to what they could do with with
TV money, etc. And so if you take on something
knowing what the inherent issues are, you then to me

(01:43:29):
can't complain about those inherent issues. So it's not an excuse.
Now I will agree with you here. The Reds this
season lead all of baseball and outs on base. They
are second in baseball in pickoffs. The most maddening thing
about this team this year is they often crossed the
line from aggressiveness to stupidity, and it felt like that

(01:43:51):
went uncorrected for far too long. Does that reflect poorly
on the manager? One hundred percent. But again, at fourteen
months ago. You felt he had the the tools and
the ability to work with these guys to correct to
lead this franchise into the next phase of whatever you
want to call this plan. Did things fall apart so

(01:44:11):
dramatically twelve months later, fourteen months later that what you
thought you were doing when you hired David Bell and
the reason you thought you were moving forward with David
Bell are no longer things you bought into and now
you want to move on from him. That to me
is just really really interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:44:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:44:28):
I think they did. I think they did fall apart
to the extent that they finally said, we can't do
this anymore. He's lost he's lost the ability to motivate
the players, you know they Yeah, they played hard for
him and they liked him, but he was the cosmic
players manager. He was terrified of upset and Elie Dela Cruz.
I mean, Elie Dela Cruz could have just ran the
bases at will and done whatever he wanted. He was

(01:44:49):
not going to get down on Elie Dela Cruz and
ruining their chances of keeping him long term and souring
him right now. It's just you've got to get somebody
in here. It's not a little less connected. It's gonna
look things from a more objective manner, and I think,
you know, ultimately you're probably gonna see a short term
bump next year, long term who knows, because of the management. It's,
you know, the sticky situation. But yeah, I think it's

(01:45:11):
it's gonna be. It's absolutely something had to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
Appreciate it though, Okay, Ty, thank you so much for
the phone call. Look, I'll say this and I'm I'm
trying to I'm trying to remember what the what the
situation was. But there was a there was a time
during this season where we I think Ellie got thrown
out at third trying to stretch a double into a
triple in a six to nothing game or something like that.

(01:45:38):
I don't remember the exact set of circumstances, and I should,
But the question we asked the next day was like,
is that a moment where you would ben Chelly Dela Cruz?
And that's an example of a moment where perhaps there

(01:45:58):
should have been a little bit more ability. Maybe I know,
but they're very fair criticisms of David Bell as a manager.
But like if i'm if i'm if I own this team,
and Nick krac comes to me and goes, yeah, dude,
you now have to pay the manager we just signed

(01:46:19):
for three years. You gotta pay him for two more.
But he's not gonna work for us. Suddenly you're in
the crosshairs. Nick Krag comes to me and says, yeah, man,
you gotta pay this guy for two years. You gotta
pay this guy. We just hitched our wagon too. He's
not gonna work for us. Okay, that's fine. You're gonna
hire the next manager. You're gonna lead the search. You

(01:46:42):
better get it right, big boy. I don't know, but
it it it unfolded.

Speaker 5 (01:46:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
I'm watching the He's watching an interview with the Cubs manager,
Craig Council. So the Mikey Brewers ran away and hid
in the n L Central the season after Craig Council bolts,
skips Town, goes to Chicago, gets paid a lot of
money by the Cubs. Cubs are not making the postseason.

(01:47:14):
The Brewers are back in the playoffs, and they've made
the postseason won the division this year. In the face
of a billion different injuries. Organizations win championships, managers don't
have as much to do with them and so yeah,
there's going to be a new manager, and maybe one
who's better at holding the players accountable, and maybe one

(01:47:35):
who can get an La Dela Cruz ands Sace. But
by the way, like discipline doesn't have to be demonstrative,
discipline doesn't have to be a loud show. Discipline doesn't
have to be getting in people's faces. Like I correct
my daughter all the time, I don't make a big
show out of it. I don't yell and scream. I'll discipline,
but but I'm not losing my mind like you can.

(01:47:56):
The best bosses I've ever had never raised their voice,
but they'll certainly correct, they'll certainly instruct. So like it's
it's not kicking helmets in the dugout and you know,
going up to people and acting like drunk Billy Martin
back in the seventies. It's the way you know stuff
is being corrected is mistakes you see, you never see again,
or you see them with less frequency. And so I'm

(01:48:18):
not I'm not looking for somebody like David Bell was
plenty fiery. He got kicked out of what thirty two
thirty three games, usually with an awesome temper tantrum. But
I do think there's something about correcting mistakes that we
didn't see nearly as much of this year. But I
keep coming back to this, you thought he was the
right guy fourteen months ago. What did you misjudge or

(01:48:45):
misdiagnosed when you thought he was the right guy fourteen
months ago? That now is the main reason for you
moving on from him. Twenty six away from six o'clock
fifteen thirty is our phone number. We'll head to Washington
coming up in just about ten minutes, and my interview

(01:49:05):
with Corey Dillon coming up as well. This is Ralph's
American Grill pregame sports Talk, presented by your Cincinnati and
Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
You've been listening to football in Thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN.

Speaker 2 (01:49:26):
To tonight's game. They are brought to you by Cincinnati Asphalt,
where precision paves the way. Jamar, Jamar, Jamar, That's the
key tonight. T Higgins is back and hopefully he makes
a big impact. We'll see what his workload is tonight.
The Bengals are much more difficult to defend when they

(01:49:47):
have T. Higgins on the field. Jamar Chase is much
more difficult to defend when they have T. Higgins on
the field. If this offense is fully operational, which tonight
with T back, it should be, everything starts with him.
We talked about this before. They targeted him fifteen times
last year in a gotta have a desperation game against
the Rams. He was awesome. They targeted him ten times

(01:50:10):
week three two years ago against the Jets, he was terrific.
Steady doses of their best offensive skill player. Gotta slow
down Brian Robinson six yards per seven point eight in
that game last week against the New York Giants. Frankly,
who the other team's back is and who the other
team's back has had success against is less relevant than

(01:50:32):
the Bengals just simply being better against the run, which
we're going to see some guy Lawrence tonight. Sheldon Rankins
is going to give it a go. Chris Jenkins is
going to play with the club. Bengals. This is not
ever going to be a great run defense. I think
most of us understand that they've got to be better
at tackling which they certainly were against the Patriots, and
they've got to be at least a little bit better
at the point of attack. They were not very good

(01:50:54):
against the Kansas City Chiefs. And you're facing a running
quarterback in jayde and Daniels. Dan Quinn after their first
game said, look, Jayden can run, He's awesome. He can't
carry it as often as he did sixteen lugs in
that first game. Can they keep him in the pocket?
Can they keep him in the pocket with the two
defensive ends? Which brings us to last week's Performer of

(01:51:15):
the Week. It is brought to you by Zimmer Tractor,
the home of the Tri State's largest Kubota inventory three
locations Monroe, Brookville, and Aurora, at online at Zimmertractor dot com,
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not a kickoff without Crown Royal. Follow the Royal for
a big taste of the generous spirit and the chance
to win tickets to the Super Bowl. Go to Crownroyal

(01:51:37):
dot com for rules and more, and please drink responsibly.
Trey Hendrickson was flat out unblockable last week in that
game against the Kansas City Chiefs. They need more help
on the edge, they need more pass rush top to bottom.
I'm not sure that looking at his sack total is

(01:52:00):
going to tell you the entire story tonight. It's all
about keeping Jayden Daniels in the pocket and turning him
into a thrower, which I think long term is going
to be fine. Is it going to be fine? Especially
if the Bengals are playing from ahead in a game
of this magnitude. See if Trey can be as good
as he was last week against Kansas City. Let's take
a look at how every piece is important. It is

(01:52:21):
brought to you by Donado's Pizza, where every piece is
important Tonado's Official Pizza of the Cincinnati Bengals. Every piece important.
The safety piece is important. Von Bell has been dealing
with a back issue. Remains to be seen if he
is going to be a full go today. Jordan Battle
obviously is right behind him. Dejon Anthony is right behind him.

(01:52:43):
So I'm looking at the safety spot. Let's say Von
Bell is limited, or let's say Von Bell can't go.
He is the guy who has fostered so much communication,
gets everybody on the same page. How does this defense
look without him out?

Speaker 4 (01:52:56):
There.

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
How does this defense look without him out there for
as much as you would typically like for him to
play And look, man, I don't think Dejon Anthony should
have been on the field on fourth and sixteen last week,
but I do understand why the Bengals like him, and
I do root for cool stories. So one of the
cooler ones for me would be a week after he
was essentially the goat on a legitimate pass interference call,

(01:53:20):
can he make a big play tonight and get people
talking about him for things beyond what happened on fourth
and sixteen last week? Dejon Anthony eighteen away from six o'clock.
We're gonna go to Washington here in just a few minutes.
One thing really quick. We've been heavy on the Bengals,
heavy on David Bell. We haven't talked much about the

(01:53:41):
Bearcats yet. Thirty four nothing winners on Saturday over Houston. Now,
Houston is not great, but that was as complete and
as thoroughway performance as we've seen from the Bearcats since
before Luke Fickles last year. And I don't think it's

(01:54:03):
surprising at all that they won the game. I think
the ease with which they did it was a little startling,
but two things about it. Number One, after the first
two games, a lot of us, myself included, wondered, is
the three three five defensive scheme the right fit for
the personnel the bear Cats have. I do believe, and

(01:54:25):
I do think stopping the run is going to be
a problem for this team moving forward. There's a lot
of really good running teams in the Big twelve, but
this was talked about a lot on the radio broadcast
on Saturday. I think you see a bunch of defensive
players who are starting to look more comfortable within that scheme.

(01:54:49):
They're not a whole on the defensive line yet and
probably won't we'll be won't be all year long. But
I just think if you watch them in the first
two games as a play the last two. Dan Horde
said on Saturday that defense against Houston looked like what
Iowa State played. Tyson Vite, the defensive coordinator, came from
Iowa State. They played a three, three five I said

(01:55:13):
this last week, and I believe it. I think this
UC offense has potential good offensive line quality receiver and
Xavier Henderson NFL caliber tight end, two really good running backs,
quarterback who looks the part I think that offense has potential.
I don't know where the true weakness is supposed to

(01:55:34):
be as you prepare to stop them. I'm bullish, man like,
I think they can. We talked about like best case
being six wins. They're halfway there, they should be four
and oh it's a willable game on Saturday against Texas Tech.
I think the era was pointed upward. I'm probably still

(01:55:54):
in the minority because I got a lot of folks
who won't let go of the pick game, which admittedly
is a tough game to let I remain bullish. I'm
bullish On Craig Hoffman, he does sports talk radio in Washington.
He talks about the Commanders with us. Next, this is
Ralph's American Grill Pregame Sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati
and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati

(01:56:16):
Sports Station.

Speaker 5 (01:56:17):
There are over three hundred and fifty b All.

Speaker 2 (01:56:19):
Right, thank you so much. This is Ralph's American Grill
Pregame sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers on ESPN fifteen thirty. Hope you've had a
great Monday. I'm Mowagar. Hope your week is off to
a great start. Hopefully your football weekend ends with a
Bengals victory Cincinnati at zero to two, hosting the Washington Commanders.

(01:56:40):
Coverage continues with countdown to kickoff from the venue originally
note as Paul Brown Stadium at six thirty and then
kickoff at eight fifteen with Dan Horde and Dave Lapham.
Postgame coverage by the way all the way until three
o'clock in the morning. There's going to be a lot
to talk about tonight. This is a game that is
all about starting the season right.

Speaker 9 (01:57:00):
Two.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
We kind of chalk it up right, every year the
Bengals start to two, then they get going in Week three.
Kind of last year they won Game three, they lost
Game four. Hopefully that's not the case next week when
the Bengals go to Carolina to take on Andy Dalton
and the Panthers. First things first, Bengals with a fully
operational offense. T Higgins scheduled to make his return. We'll
see what his workload is, We'll see what his impact is,

(01:57:23):
We'll see if he can stay healthy. Look, this is
one of the kind of the subtexts of the season right,
t Higgins franchise tag probably last year in Cincinnati. Does
he have this sort of season that makes teams jump
to the front of the line to give him the
kind of coin that he's looking for? Or does he
go into the offseason wearing an even larger label than

(01:57:45):
he wears right now of constantly being injured? So Tea
is back? Can he stay healthy? Can he be productive?
He did not have a great year last year in
terms of health and productivity, though obviously he had some
awesome moments. What do we see from Tea tonight? What
do we see from the Bengals offense tonight? One of

(01:58:05):
the really fun things to watch last week was the
deployment of all the tight ends. Eric Ahl Mike is
sicky and you started to think about, well, what could
they do with the tight end spot if they've got
dudes on the outside who could do what Jamar and
t can do. Do we see an expansion of the
role for Jamaine Burton? Look last week, they gave him

(01:58:27):
a shot, they gave him a taste. He took advantage
the forty seven yard passed downfield. Does that earn him
a little bit more playing time? Does it earn him
more opportunities to make plays. And with t Higgins back,
who kind of becomes the odd man out. Also on offense,
Zach Moss was pedestrian last week, Chase Brown was explosive.

(01:58:48):
Do we see a flipping of the roles, so to speak?
With those two? And then on defense, obviously, Jayden Daniels
can do a lot of things with his legs. Can
the Bengals keep him in the pocket? Can he test
that Cincinnati secondary? And can the Bengal slow down Brian
Robinson who was averaging six yards per game? There were
times where Corey Dillon averaged well over six yards per game.

(01:59:10):
The Bengals will hold their Ring of Honor ceremony at
halftime tonight to very deserving inductees Tim Crumrae and Corey Dylon.
Corey provided a lot of great moments for teams that
were the exact opposite of great. At one point, held
the NFL's all time record for most rushing yards in
a game by a rookie, held the record for most

(01:59:31):
all time yards in a game by any rusher in
a game against the never Broncos October of two thousand
and was one of the reasons to watch when the
Bengals were frankly not that good. And it's great to
have him back in the fold. Good to have him
with us. Corey, let's start with this. Tell me what

(01:59:53):
it was like, what you thought when you found out
that you had gotten the call you're being inducted into
the Bengals Ring of Honor, and what it means to you.

Speaker 9 (02:00:00):
Ah, it means everything, man, And like you said, man,
there's a lot of other guys man that are deserving
as well.

Speaker 5 (02:00:07):
Man, And I'm an advocate for them too. Man. So
this is a blessing today being my family are so
so happy about this moment.

Speaker 9 (02:00:17):
It's been a long time coming, and I'm just I'm
blessed and I appreciate being in this position.

Speaker 2 (02:00:24):
The Ring of Honor ceremony will take place on Monday night,
September the twenty third, at halftime of a game between
the Bengals and the Washington Commanders. When you're standing there
and that name is revealed and it says Dylan forever
in that stadium, can you even imagine what sort of
emotions will come up?

Speaker 5 (02:00:43):
Man?

Speaker 4 (02:00:43):
I have no clue.

Speaker 9 (02:00:45):
Man, for breat that guy starting off playing football on
the back streets of Seattle. Man to actually see that, Ah, Man,
it's gonna be overwhelming, man, But it's gonna be a
great day because my brothers understand what it took to
get there.

Speaker 5 (02:01:01):
Man.

Speaker 9 (02:01:02):
They actually taught me how to play football. So it's
not only a big honor for me, man, but for
my family and friends and my loved ones as well.
So they know the journey and it's coming full circle, man,
And now we're here.

Speaker 2 (02:01:15):
The Bengals put you on the ballot, but fans had
to vote you in. And I mean to me, look,
it's not like you got done playing last year. It's
been a couple of decades. How meaningful is it that
fans still remember and still know how good you were?

Speaker 5 (02:01:30):
Man? It means everything, man, And.

Speaker 9 (02:01:34):
I appreciate them from the bottom of my heart, because
you know what, honestly, without them, I wouldn't be in
this position. So all things go to them. And I
appreciate everybody who voted for me. And like I said, man,
this is a long time coming. In the twenty thirty
is just gonna be a glorious day for me and

(02:01:55):
everyone involved.

Speaker 2 (02:01:56):
Yeah, no question about it. I've often told younger fans, look,
and you know, unfortunately you weren't on great teams. And
I've often told people like, in some of those lean years,
I could still go to the game on Sunday and
all right, Number one, Corey Dillon's going to play his
hard out. Number two is going to run people over.
That's still going to be worth paying attention to when
you think of your run here, and obviously you had

(02:02:18):
the two iconic games where you set records all time
rookie rushing record against the Tennessee Oilers at the time,
and the all time single game rushing record in two
thousand against the Denver Broncos. But when you think of that,
that that large stretch of your life in Cincinnati, what
sort of things come to mind?

Speaker 5 (02:02:35):
Ah?

Speaker 9 (02:02:35):
Man guests, enjoying the city first of all, and and
playing with my teammates. Man, and I allude to this
this game earlier today. Man. I know those record breaking
games were awesome, Man, trust me, they're they're up there
with me, man. But the one that I'm more impressed
with is the game against Baltimore. I think it was

(02:02:57):
fifty or fifty one games didn't allow Hunter Yard Russia,
and we went down to Baltimore. Man, and we snapped
that streak. So that stands out a little bit more
than the others to me.

Speaker 2 (02:03:10):
You mentioned teammates, and you had dozens of them here,
But but who are some of the teammates that you
played with, either that were veterans when you were coming
up or guys that you just developed relationships with over
the years that as you think back of your time
in Cincinnati, mean the most.

Speaker 9 (02:03:27):
Man, all them guys, man, I mean from Willie to
Carl Pickings to David Dunn to Tarnay Scott.

Speaker 5 (02:03:35):
I mean, the list goes on and on.

Speaker 9 (02:03:38):
Lorenzo O'Neill, Cliff grows, Nick Lucci, Marco tim or Tony McGhee,
and it keeps it just keeps going. I mean, Big
Cat Dan Wilkerson.

Speaker 5 (02:03:55):
I mean it was amazing, man.

Speaker 9 (02:03:59):
I know, I know time wasn't what we wanted to
be down there, But at the end of the day, man,
them guys were my brothers, right and and I was
home away from home when we go to that stadium, man,
And for the most part, everybody respected each other and
enjoyed each other's company.

Speaker 7 (02:04:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:04:17):
You obviously had a terrific career in Cincinnati, and then
you go to New England. And I mean I've told
people Corey Dyllon on the O four Patriots was the
best player on the team they win the title, and
that's a team that obviously included Tom Brady. But you know,
it feels to me like this puts a really nice
bow on your time in Cincinnati. And don't I don't

(02:04:40):
know at certain points how great the relationship has been
between yourself and the franchise, But like, is it all
good now? Is everything good now with you in the
Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 5 (02:04:49):
Man, everything's peachy.

Speaker 7 (02:04:50):
Bro?

Speaker 5 (02:04:53):
Who's complining? And not? Mere? Nah? Listen.

Speaker 9 (02:05:00):
I know these could have been offered in the past, man,
but that's that's the power of growth and people having
communication and working out their differences. Man, just just this
gesture alone of me being in Arena Honor should indicate
to everybody.

Speaker 5 (02:05:17):
And I hope everybody's listening. I mean everybody who's listening.

Speaker 9 (02:05:21):
You know what, if we can put our differences aside
and move forward, associate you, you know what I mean? Like,
I mean, there's me and the organizations on the clean
slate and we are excited about the relationship moving forward.

Speaker 2 (02:05:38):
How closely do you follow the Cincinnati Bengals these days.

Speaker 5 (02:05:42):
Oh, I watch him. Man, Shit, Joe Burrows is the
main He's the truth.

Speaker 9 (02:05:46):
Chase and Mixing was my guy. So every every chance,
every opportunity, I get to watch it. Man, I sit
down and watch. So I've paid attention closely.

Speaker 2 (02:05:59):
You go into the ring of honor with Tim Crumb
right now. Obviously you didn't play with him, but while
you were here, he was coaching, albeit on the other
side of the ball. What do things come to mind
when you hear the name Tim Crumbright?

Speaker 9 (02:06:12):
Man, I was fortunate I was a young pup, but
I actually seen him play in them Super Bowls.

Speaker 5 (02:06:17):
Man, and Tim is a dog man. That dude is
one tough.

Speaker 9 (02:06:23):
Sob and the respect he earned, he earned that the
whole locker room, all the teammates.

Speaker 5 (02:06:33):
He's beloved down there.

Speaker 9 (02:06:34):
Man. That was one of my favorite coaches, So to
actually be going in along with him is a plus. Man,
he is one of the greatest guys to meet to know,
and he was one hell of a player. Man, one
of my favorite coaches to ever be around while I

(02:06:54):
was there, So it's gonna be a double honor.

Speaker 2 (02:06:58):
I know, I know you talked about this today and
you alluded to it before. But but you're gonna wave
the flag for for other men who are on the
ballot and and maybe other men who are going to
be on the ballot one day to ultimately have their
name up there with yours in the ring of honor.
Who are the first names that you'll bring up?

Speaker 9 (02:07:16):
Ah Man, definitely Parish and Trumpy Man. That needs to
That needs to happen. Man, that needs to happen. So
and we'll see that. We'll see in due time.

Speaker 5 (02:07:29):
Man. Hopefully hopefully that everybody gets in and gets to
see that day.

Speaker 9 (02:07:35):
That's that's that's big. And I want I want them
guys that have the same celebration and that feeling I
got at this moment. Everybody deserves that, So, I mean
I talked to Jim Breach today, Man, he deserves it too.
So these are my brothers, man, and we all, we
all are deserving and and I and I'm going to

(02:07:58):
advocate it to us all.

Speaker 5 (02:08:00):
My brothers get in.

Speaker 2 (02:08:02):
It has to And you were obviously included when when
the franchise celebrated a few years ago, the first fifty.
It has to make you and so many of your
your former teammates and another former players of the Bengals
that that you've you've grown close to over the years.
It has to make you, guys feel good that the
franchise has recently gone out of its way and done

(02:08:24):
some really good things to celebrate the franchise's history and
iconic players like yourself.

Speaker 9 (02:08:29):
Right, Oh, Man, Elizabeth, thank god, you know, thanks, thanks
for having Man. She she put some some things in motion, Man,
that was well needed, and I appreciate her doing that.
I also thank the Brown family for allowingness to happen.

Speaker 4 (02:08:49):
Man.

Speaker 5 (02:08:49):
They didn't have to do anything, you know, so, but
they did. And now we hear and and it's set.

Speaker 9 (02:08:56):
It's setting up some of these great Warmer Banks players
for other opportunities as far as the Hall of Fame, Man,
which is overdue and well deserved as well.

Speaker 2 (02:09:07):
All Right, I'm gonna ask you about that, but and
I know people always bring up the two record setting games.
You know, December fourth, nineteen ninety seven against Tennessee you
set the NFL's all time single game rookie rushing record.
October twenty second, two thousand against the Denver Broncos the
NFL's all time single game rushing record. You know, there

(02:09:30):
were probably forty five thousand people at Riverfront Stadium that
night in nineteen ninety seven, and I don't know fifty
five thousand people in that game against the Broncos in
two thousand. I would imagine you've probably met about a
half million people who say they were at both.

Speaker 9 (02:09:48):
Definitely hey on Twitter and on on on Instagram. Man,
I have a lot of people saying, Man, I was
at that game and and do it in is It
makes me. It makes me feel good to hear the
stories about how they were there with their dad or
their mom, and and how they enjoyed the game, man,

(02:10:09):
and how happy they were.

Speaker 5 (02:10:11):
Man, that puts a smile on my face.

Speaker 2 (02:10:14):
Yeah, I mean I was not at the Tennessee game.
I was at the Denver game. But like, when I
think of the Tennessee game, you carried it thirty nine
times that night. I don't think a Bengals. I'm not
sure how many NFL running backs are ever going to
carry it thirty nine times in a game. And so
do you ever watch like the way the game is
played now where they're you know, there's rarely a running

(02:10:35):
back who gets more than twenty five carries and go. Man,
I'm not sure. I'm glad I played when I did.

Speaker 5 (02:10:41):
I always say that I'm a running back, man, I
want the ball.

Speaker 9 (02:10:50):
But anyway, yeah, I think I think the league is
more of a passing league.

Speaker 5 (02:10:56):
I think that's that's the tree. Now.

Speaker 9 (02:11:00):
Hopefully power football come back in style one of these days.
But a lot of teams are going going to running
back by committee, which is fine.

Speaker 5 (02:11:10):
I mean, so.

Speaker 9 (02:11:12):
Hopefully the value of a running back comes back as well.
I think I think the running backs right now are
getting a raw deal where most organizations think, you know,
they could get one, two or three running backs that
could do the same thing for less, which is it's
crazy in my mind. I mean, if you're good, you're good.

Speaker 5 (02:11:34):
You don't need three, you know.

Speaker 9 (02:11:36):
But that's the way. That's the way it's going right now.
So all we can do is sit back and and
wait and see when it when, when it comes back
in style. But I tell you what, they appreciate the
running back when it's cold and raining, I tell you
that much, you know, and when it's time and when
it's time to get that that one yard or on

(02:11:58):
the gold line.

Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
I don't see too many passes being gone.

Speaker 2 (02:12:01):
So but here's the but here's the thing. That's the
way the game has evolved. Your records are probably safe.
So you know, there's there's the there's the glass half
full way of looking at it.

Speaker 9 (02:12:14):
I get that, man, But like like with anything, man,
records are bit to be broken. There's gonna be some
guy that comes along and it's gonna be bad ass.

Speaker 5 (02:12:24):
So I know that. I know that for a fact.

Speaker 9 (02:12:28):
So I'm just gonna enjoy the records I have now
and man, continue to watch these young Bengals grow and
go hunt down a super Bowl man. So and hopefully
I'm near to congratulate that young man when he when
he accomplished all those records.

Speaker 2 (02:12:44):
Yeah, I think that would be cool. So the website
pro football reference dot com has allowed me to win
a lot of debates because I can go in great
depth making the Corey Dylan for the Hall of Fame case.
And I don't like knocking down players who were already there.
But I I tell people who don't believe me, I'm like,
go go to Football Reference and look at Corey out.

(02:13:07):
Look at how he stacks up against guys who are
in Canton, and look at what he did in New England,
and look at what he did here, Mike, And I
always say, like in Cincinnati, can you imagine how many
fourth quarters he could have gotten a bunch of yardage
in had the team been winning, And unfortunately, you guys
didn't do enough winning. And every time I bring this up,
I'm able to convince someone is does that matter to you?

(02:13:29):
Do you pay attention to that? I mean, you know,
talk me, talk me through the Hall of Fame discussion.

Speaker 9 (02:13:35):
As you hear it, I hear I hear to say
things too, So it is and it's it's crazy, man,
it's crazy. Like like you said, you could you can
match me up with some of the people that are
now I pan out pretty good, right, Yeah, So I

(02:13:55):
don't know, I don't know what the hold up or
what's the criteria. Uh am judging me at this point,
But I tell you what, my resume is getting better,
be that much.

Speaker 2 (02:14:11):
There's no doubt about that getting better.

Speaker 9 (02:14:15):
And hopefully, hopefully this will start putting me in some
of the conversations because and the reason I say that, man,
is I actually was on the phone with Adrian Ross
and Joey Porter and he said something to me that
was like real, like the real esteem I heard at

(02:14:36):
that moment he said this. He was like, Corey, how
how are we supposed to get in a ring? I
mean in that Hall of Fame if our own team
don't even hotterus Man. That resonated with me. I was like, damn,
you got a you got a great point.

Speaker 2 (02:14:52):
Yeah, you got a great I think this helps I
certainly don't think it hurt the candidacy of Ken Riley,
and I hope it helps the candidacy of Willie Anderson
and Ken Anderson as well. You've been You've been very
generous with your time. Congratulations September the twenty third, yourself
and Tim Crumrae both very deserving. Enjoy it. It's overdue,

(02:15:14):
but it's gonna be awesome. And thanks again for the
time tonight, Corey. Do appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (02:15:19):
Hey, thank you, and thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (02:15:21):
All right, there you go, Corey Dyllon. He gets his
moment tonight Bengals Ring of Honor along with Tim Crumbrie.
Kickoff is coming up eight fifteen Tonight Bengals and Washington Commanders.
Don't forget Tony and mo Football Show tomorrow. Twin peaks
in Westchester from three to six. Cannot wait, Tony Pike
me you. Hopefully a Bengals victory before then. We have
a countdown to kickoff. Wayne Box Miller is standing by.

(02:15:43):
He'll be next. You've been listening to the Rouse American
Grill pregame sports talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern
Kentucky Toyota dealers on the home of the Bengals, ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,